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Born a human
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" . I saw a programme about a couple who identify as cats. They actually eat from a bowl and lap the milk up etc. And have those scratchy things to play with. "
But I’m not saying it’s weird or anything!  |
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"But identify as a wolf!!!!
What is this world coming too
It's going to the dogs.  "
Feels like it. Saw a story not long ago about a guy who wanted to take his parents to court because they didn't ask his permission to be born! |
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By *hoirCouple
over a year ago
Bury St Edmunds/Clacton |
"can i be a banana then?
"
I believe the rules are that you can identify as anything you wish, anyone voicing dissent is classed as transphobic.
Madness as it detracts from genuine people.
C |
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"But identify as a wolf!!!!
What is this world coming too
It's going to the dogs.
Feels like it. Saw a story not long ago about a guy who wanted to take his parents to court because they didn't ask his permission to be born!"
Hahahaha. That doesn’t surprise me one bit. The world has literally gone bonkers! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"But identify as a wolf!!!!
What is this world coming too
It's going to the dogs.
Feels like it. Saw a story not long ago about a guy who wanted to take his parents to court because they didn't ask his permission to be born!
Hahahaha. That doesn’t surprise me one bit. The world has literally gone bonkers!"
There was a woman on This Morning a while back claiming you needed consent to change your own babies nappy. My youngest runs a mile when I try to change his. I’d be arrested for neglect if I waited for consent. |
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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago
Liverpool/Wallasey |
". I saw a programme about a couple who identify as cats. They actually eat from a bowl and lap the milk up etc. And have those scratchy things to play with.
But I’m not saying it’s weird or anything! "
To be fair, to live as a cat in certain ways must be liberating as a feeling. The lack of worry and responsibility that I assume comes as part of it may very well be a large part of the appeal. Cats mostly live a chill as fuck lifestyle.
Just the additional parts of it just have gone to the extreme. |
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"But identify as a wolf!!!!
What is this world coming too
It's going to the dogs.
Feels like it. Saw a story not long ago about a guy who wanted to take his parents to court because they didn't ask his permission to be born!
Hahahaha. That doesn’t surprise me one bit. The world has literally gone bonkers!
There was a woman on This Morning a while back claiming you needed consent to change your own babies nappy. My youngest runs a mile when I try to change his. I’d be arrested for neglect if I waited for consent."
Yes I remember that too! It was on the news. Ridiculous! |
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"But identify as a wolf!!!!
What is this world coming too
It's going to the dogs.
Feels like it. Saw a story not long ago about a guy who wanted to take his parents to court because they didn't ask his permission to be born!"
Blimey. That's a howler. |
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". I saw a programme about a couple who identify as cats. They actually eat from a bowl and lap the milk up etc. And have those scratchy things to play with.
But I’m not saying it’s weird or anything! "
Hope you're not KS Nora lol |
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"But identify as a wolf!!!!
What is this world coming too
It's going to the dogs.
Feels like it. Saw a story not long ago about a guy who wanted to take his parents to court because they didn't ask his permission to be born!
Blimey. That's a howler. "
Bet his mother wished she'd swallowed him now |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
". I saw a programme about a couple who identify as cats. They actually eat from a bowl and lap the milk up etc. And have those scratchy things to play with. "
I saw that too but it was Ant & Dec playing a joke on Jeremy Kyle… |
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Weirdly enough this exact conversation was the accepted narrative for trans people long ago
Everyone viewed it as ridiculous that you could just change your gender
I find it odd how people openly mock certain things but would die on a hill defending something else
Ultimately does it really matter as long as people are happy? |
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"But identify as a wolf!!!!
What is this world coming too
It's going to the dogs.
Feels like it. Saw a story not long ago about a guy who wanted to take his parents to court because they didn't ask his permission to be born!
Blimey. That's a howler.
Bet his mother wished she'd swallowed him now "
Or taken it in the arse.  |
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"But identify as a wolf!!!!
What is this world coming too
It's going to the dogs.
Feels like it. Saw a story not long ago about a guy who wanted to take his parents to court because they didn't ask his permission to be born!
Blimey. That's a howler.
Bet his mother wished she'd swallowed him now
Or taken it in the arse. "
|
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"But identify as a wolf!!!!
What is this world coming too
It's going to the dogs.
Feels like it. Saw a story not long ago about a guy who wanted to take his parents to court because they didn't ask his permission to be born!
Blimey. That's a howler.
Bet his mother wished she'd swallowed him now
Or taken it in the arse. "
Isn't that how puppies are made?? |
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"But identify as a wolf!!!!
What is this world coming too
It's going to the dogs.
Feels like it. Saw a story not long ago about a guy who wanted to take his parents to court because they didn't ask his permission to be born!
Blimey. That's a howler.
Bet his mother wished she'd swallowed him now
Or taken it in the arse.
Isn't that how puppies are made?? "
I'm not sure, shall we try??  |
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". I saw a programme about a couple who identify as cats. They actually eat from a bowl and lap the milk up etc. And have those scratchy things to play with.
But I’m not saying it’s weird or anything!
Hope you're not KS Nora lol"
Absolutely not!   |
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". I saw a programme about a couple who identify as cats. They actually eat from a bowl and lap the milk up etc. And have those scratchy things to play with.
I saw that too but it was Ant & Dec playing a joke on Jeremy Kyle…"
Hahaha. Nah this was real. |
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"But identify as a wolf!!!!
What is this world coming too
It's going to the dogs.
Feels like it. Saw a story not long ago about a guy who wanted to take his parents to court because they didn't ask his permission to be born!
Blimey. That's a howler.
Bet his mother wished she'd swallowed him now
Or taken it in the arse.
Isn't that how puppies are made??
I'm not sure, shall we try?? "
Now now CG...I'm a lady. I would never do something like that |
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"But identify as a wolf!!!!
What is this world coming too
It's going to the dogs.
Feels like it. Saw a story not long ago about a guy who wanted to take his parents to court because they didn't ask his permission to be born!
Blimey. That's a howler.
Bet his mother wished she'd swallowed him now
Or taken it in the arse.
Isn't that how puppies are made??
I'm not sure, shall we try??
Now now CG...I'm a lady. I would never do something like that "
I had worse rejections than that. |
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By *ysyphusMan
over a year ago
Starbase K-7 |
"But identify as a wolf!!!!
What is this world coming too
It's going to the dogs.
Feels like it. Saw a story not long ago about a guy who wanted to take his parents to court because they didn't ask his permission to be born!
Blimey. That's a howler.
Bet his mother wished she'd swallowed him now
Or taken it in the arse.
Isn't that how puppies are made?? "
When you said puppies, why did I look at your profile pic? |
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"But identify as a wolf!!!!
What is this world coming too
It's going to the dogs.
Feels like it. Saw a story not long ago about a guy who wanted to take his parents to court because they didn't ask his permission to be born!
Blimey. That's a howler.
Bet his mother wished she'd swallowed him now
Or taken it in the arse.
Isn't that how puppies are made??
When you said puppies, why did I look at your profile pic?"
|
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". I saw a programme about a couple who identify as cats. They actually eat from a bowl and lap the milk up etc. And have those scratchy things to play with.
But I’m not saying it’s weird or anything!
To be fair, to live as a cat in certain ways must be liberating as a feeling. The lack of worry and responsibility that I assume comes as part of it may very well be a large part of the appeal. Cats mostly live a chill as fuck lifestyle.
Just the additional parts of it just have gone to the extreme."
I wonder if they have a gravel drive
C |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"That's it. I'm a noodle from now on!
Pot or pool??
Ooooooh I was thinking pot. But do I want to be a floaty pool noodle?? I'll have to think "
Either way you get wet |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"But identify as a wolf!!!!
What is this world coming too
It's going to the dogs.
Feels like it. Saw a story not long ago about a guy who wanted to take his parents to court because they didn't ask his permission to be born!
Blimey. That's a howler. "
You lot are barking mad |
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"But identify as a wolf!!!!
What is this world coming too
It's going to the dogs.
Feels like it. Saw a story not long ago about a guy who wanted to take his parents to court because they didn't ask his permission to be born!
Blimey. That's a howler.
You lot are barking mad "
It's been a woof day. |
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"That's it. I'm a noodle from now on!
Pot or pool??
Ooooooh I was thinking pot. But do I want to be a floaty pool noodle?? I'll have to think
Ooo. I'd love to fork you. "
Spooning is better for noodles...they fall off a fork |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"That's it. I'm a noodle from now on!
Pot or pool??
Ooooooh I was thinking pot. But do I want to be a floaty pool noodle?? I'll have to think
What flavour of noodle though? "
The Bombay one! |
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"That's it. I'm a noodle from now on!
Pot or pool??
Ooooooh I was thinking pot. But do I want to be a floaty pool noodle?? I'll have to think
Ooo. I'd love to fork you.
Spooning is better for noodles...they fall off a fork "
I should show you my twiddling method. It never fails. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"But identify as a wolf!!!!
What is this world coming too
It's going to the dogs.
Feels like it. Saw a story not long ago about a guy who wanted to take his parents to court because they didn't ask his permission to be born!
Hahahaha. That doesn’t surprise me one bit. The world has literally gone bonkers!"
OMG! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"That's it. I'm a noodle from now on!
Pot or pool??
Ooooooh I was thinking pot. But do I want to be a floaty pool noodle?? I'll have to think
Either way you get wet "
This is true. But if I were a pool noodle, I'd see lots of semi nudey people |
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"That's it. I'm a noodle from now on!
Pot or pool??
Ooooooh I was thinking pot. But do I want to be a floaty pool noodle?? I'll have to think
Either way you get wet
This is true. But if I were a pool noodle, I'd see lots of semi nudey people "
If you were a pot noodle...you'd end up in some mens crotches with the way eat lol |
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By *etcplCouple
over a year ago
Gapping Fanny |
"Weirdly enough this exact conversation was the accepted narrative for trans people long ago
Everyone viewed it as ridiculous that you could just change your gender
I find it odd how people openly mock certain things but would die on a hill defending something else
Ultimately does it really matter as long as people are happy? "
Why would they consider their actions when it suits their narrative to mock others, and of course lets not forget the passive aggressive behaviour should anyone dare mention “kink shaming”.
They may not understand it, but it speaks volumes that instead of trying to educate or learn they turn instead to ridicule. |
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"Weirdly enough this exact conversation was the accepted narrative for trans people long ago
Everyone viewed it as ridiculous that you could just change your gender
I find it odd how people openly mock certain things but would die on a hill defending something else
Ultimately does it really matter as long as people are happy? "
Exactly this. Best post in the thread. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Weirdly enough this exact conversation was the accepted narrative for trans people long ago
Everyone viewed it as ridiculous that you could just change your gender
I find it odd how people openly mock certain things but would die on a hill defending something else
Ultimately does it really matter as long as people are happy?
Why would they consider their actions when it suits their narrative to mock others, and of course lets not forget the passive aggressive behaviour should anyone dare mention “kink shaming”.
They may not understand it, but it speaks volumes that instead of trying to educate or learn they turn instead to ridicule."
I would guess because some people seem to enjoy trying to make others feel like shit, just because they can? |
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"What makes someone human?
What makes someone a wolf?
"
Considering we share nearly 85% not much different I suppose.
But it's a common enough concept throughout human history. Plenty of myths on shape shifting from all parts of the world. And native Americans believe in spirit animals. Maybe we're less open to these ideas now than we used to be. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What makes someone human?"
Humans
"What makes someone a wolf?"
Wolves
I agree with the point that it doesn't really matter how other people choose to be if they're not hurting others. |
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"Weirdly enough this exact conversation was the accepted narrative for trans people long ago
Everyone viewed it as ridiculous that you could just change your gender
I find it odd how people openly mock certain things but would die on a hill defending something else
Ultimately does it really matter as long as people are happy?
Why would they consider their actions when it suits their narrative to mock others, and of course lets not forget the passive aggressive behaviour should anyone dare mention “kink shaming”.
They may not understand it, but it speaks volumes that instead of trying to educate or learn they turn instead to ridicule.
I would guess because some people seem to enjoy trying to make others feel like shit, just because they can? "
Would seem that way sometimes x |
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"Weirdly enough this exact conversation was the accepted narrative for trans people long ago
Everyone viewed it as ridiculous that you could just change your gender
I find it odd how people openly mock certain things but would die on a hill defending something else
Ultimately does it really matter as long as people are happy? "
This is a bit different to people born in the wrong body!
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"But identify as a wolf!!!!
What is this world coming too
It's going to the dogs.
Feels like it. Saw a story not long ago about a guy who wanted to take his parents to court because they didn't ask his permission to be born!"
But..... What the?  |
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"But identify as a wolf!!!!
What is this world coming too
It's going to the dogs.
Feels like it. Saw a story not long ago about a guy who wanted to take his parents to court because they didn't ask his permission to be born!"
Tbf, it's a reasonable feeling. You don't ask to be born and then you're saddled with a body that convinces you that you need to keep doing everything you can to stay alive even though you know that there is ultimately absolutely no point to the whole exercise
Mr |
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"But identify as a wolf!!!!
What is this world coming too
It's going to the dogs.
Feels like it. Saw a story not long ago about a guy who wanted to take his parents to court because they didn't ask his permission to be born!
Tbf, it's a reasonable feeling. You don't ask to be born and then you're saddled with a body that convinces you that you need to keep doing everything you can to stay alive even though you know that there is ultimately absolutely no point to the whole exercise
Mr"
I can kind of understand that feeling to a to a point. I understood from a young age I was accident, my mam got pregnant at 17, and that I wasn't really wanted. I got to say I can empathize with thinking it not my bloody fault you didn't use contraception, I didn't ask to be born. |
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"But identify as a wolf!!!!
What is this world coming too
It's going to the dogs.
Feels like it. Saw a story not long ago about a guy who wanted to take his parents to court because they didn't ask his permission to be born!
But..... What the? "
I know....looks like women are going to have to speak to their eggs now before getting pregnant. Males will have to speak to their sperm. Brings a whole new meaning to "who wants to be a daddy" |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This very particular type of thing (not I identify as) that really will kill the human race off, if offspring are given the power for this kind of thing. Nobody will want to have kids if it was a case of getting shit for not asking permission from the lofeformnprior to said lifeform emerging in to existence. "
Seems unlikely unless we learn to communicate with sperm. |
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"But identify as a wolf!!!!
What is this world coming too
It's going to the dogs.
Feels like it. Saw a story not long ago about a guy who wanted to take his parents to court because they didn't ask his permission to be born!
Tbf, it's a reasonable feeling. You don't ask to be born and then you're saddled with a body that convinces you that you need to keep doing everything you can to stay alive even though you know that there is ultimately absolutely no point to the whole exercise
Mr"
One of my daughters talks like this to me makes me sad x |
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"What makes someone human?
What makes someone a wolf?
Considering we share nearly 85% not much different I suppose.
But it's a common enough concept throughout human history. Plenty of myths on shape shifting from all parts of the world. And native Americans believe in spirit animals. Maybe we're less open to these ideas now than we used to be. "
I don't know, maybe we are.
I have to say that I'd rather one of my kids didn't come home and say that from now on they identify as a wolf. Life would be so difficult for them and I'd have a hard time dealing with it too.
However I have no way of knowing that my perception of my humanity is the same as the next persons. Also we have no problem calling people "animals" under certain circumstances. |
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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago
Liverpool/Wallasey |
"But identify as a wolf!!!!
What is this world coming too
It's going to the dogs.
Feels like it. Saw a story not long ago about a guy who wanted to take his parents to court because they didn't ask his permission to be born!
But..... What the?
I know....looks like women are going to have to speak to their eggs now before getting pregnant. Males will have to speak to their sperm. Brings a whole new meaning to "who wants to be a daddy""
This very particular type of thing (not I identify as) that really will kill the human race off, if offspring are given the power for this kind of thing. Nobody will want to have kids if it was a case of getting shit for not asking permission from the lifeform prior to said lifeform emerging in to existence.
Edited for terrible proof reading due to a phone drop.
Immortalised in the quote above |
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By *etcplCouple
over a year ago
Gapping Fanny |
"What makes someone human?
What makes someone a wolf?
Considering we share nearly 85% not much different I suppose.
But it's a common enough concept throughout human history. Plenty of myths on shape shifting from all parts of the world. And native Americans believe in spirit animals. Maybe we're less open to these ideas now than we used to be. "
Assuming this is about the lady on This Morning:
“Being otherkin means I identify with an animal on a spiritual or psychological sort of basis," she recently told The Sun. "We know we aren't animals. We don't think we're going to turn into a wolf or anything crazy it's just sort of a spiritual belief.” |
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"What makes someone human?
What makes someone a wolf?
Considering we share nearly 85% not much different I suppose.
But it's a common enough concept throughout human history. Plenty of myths on shape shifting from all parts of the world. And native Americans believe in spirit animals. Maybe we're less open to these ideas now than we used to be.
Assuming this is about the lady on This Morning:
“Being otherkin means I identify with an animal on a spiritual or psychological sort of basis," she recently told The Sun. "We know we aren't animals. We don't think we're going to turn into a wolf or anything crazy it's just sort of a spiritual belief.”"
Well that is common enough thought throughout human history, across the globe. But I guess it doesn't make a good headline woman believes her spirit animal is a wolf. |
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"What makes someone human?
What makes someone a wolf?
Considering we share nearly 85% not much different I suppose.
But it's a common enough concept throughout human history. Plenty of myths on shape shifting from all parts of the world. And native Americans believe in spirit animals. Maybe we're less open to these ideas now than we used to be.
I don't know, maybe we are.
I have to say that I'd rather one of my kids didn't come home and say that from now on they identify as a wolf. Life would be so difficult for them and I'd have a hard time dealing with it too.
However I have no way of knowing that my perception of my humanity is the same as the next persons. Also we have no problem calling people "animals" under certain circumstances. "
True enough we all want our kids to be "normal", think all parents do.
I just don't see humans and animals as being vastly different fundamentally. Just that we humans have decided to make something as basic and keeping our species alive more complicated than others |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Weirdly enough this exact conversation was the accepted narrative for trans people long ago
Everyone viewed it as ridiculous that you could just change your gender
I find it odd how people openly mock certain things but would die on a hill defending something else
Ultimately does it really matter as long as people are happy?
This is a bit different to people born in the wrong body!
"
Honestly I don't care what people do, as long as it's not hurting anyone. Do you.
But everything has to be SO serious lately.
Something's and sometimes it's nice to just have a light hearted outlook on things.
Obviously I don't want to be a pot noodle like I joked before, but if someone really wanted to be one then that's fine. Being silly from time to time really doesn't have to be made into a negative. |
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"What makes someone human?
What makes someone a wolf?
Considering we share nearly 85% not much different I suppose.
But it's a common enough concept throughout human history. Plenty of myths on shape shifting from all parts of the world. And native Americans believe in spirit animals. Maybe we're less open to these ideas now than we used to be.
Assuming this is about the lady on This Morning:
“Being otherkin means I identify with an animal on a spiritual or psychological sort of basis," she recently told The Sun. "We know we aren't animals. We don't think we're going to turn into a wolf or anything crazy it's just sort of a spiritual belief.”"
I didn't see the interview. That's interesting and puts it in a different context. The idea of identifying with animals on a spiritual level is nothing new as has been pointed out.
Women in the craft had familiars for instance. |
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"What makes someone human?
What makes someone a wolf?
Considering we share nearly 85% not much different I suppose.
But it's a common enough concept throughout human history. Plenty of myths on shape shifting from all parts of the world. And native Americans believe in spirit animals. Maybe we're less open to these ideas now than we used to be.
I don't know, maybe we are.
I have to say that I'd rather one of my kids didn't come home and say that from now on they identify as a wolf. Life would be so difficult for them and I'd have a hard time dealing with it too.
However I have no way of knowing that my perception of my humanity is the same as the next persons. Also we have no problem calling people "animals" under certain circumstances.
True enough we all want our kids to be "normal", think all parents do.
I just don't see humans and animals as being vastly different fundamentally. Just that we humans have decided to make something as basic and keeping our species alive more complicated than others "
Lol and I guess ultimately that's what makes us human |
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"Weirdly enough this exact conversation was the accepted narrative for trans people long ago
Everyone viewed it as ridiculous that you could just change your gender
I find it odd how people openly mock certain things but would die on a hill defending something else
Ultimately does it really matter as long as people are happy?
This is a bit different to people born in the wrong body!
Honestly I don't care what people do, as long as it's not hurting anyone. Do you.
But everything has to be SO serious lately.
Something's and sometimes it's nice to just have a light hearted outlook on things.
Obviously I don't want to be a pot noodle like I joked before, but if someone really wanted to be one then that's fine. Being silly from time to time really doesn't have to be made into a negative. "
Happening to often on the forums these days. |
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"What makes someone human?
What makes someone a wolf?
Considering we share nearly 85% not much different I suppose.
But it's a common enough concept throughout human history. Plenty of myths on shape shifting from all parts of the world. And native Americans believe in spirit animals. Maybe we're less open to these ideas now than we used to be.
I don't know, maybe we are.
I have to say that I'd rather one of my kids didn't come home and say that from now on they identify as a wolf. Life would be so difficult for them and I'd have a hard time dealing with it too.
However I have no way of knowing that my perception of my humanity is the same as the next persons. Also we have no problem calling people "animals" under certain circumstances.
True enough we all want our kids to be "normal", think all parents do.
I just don't see humans and animals as being vastly different fundamentally. Just that we humans have decided to make something as basic and keeping our species alive more complicated than others
Lol and I guess ultimately that's what makes us human "
Lol that is very very true |
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"Weirdly enough this exact conversation was the accepted narrative for trans people long ago
Everyone viewed it as ridiculous that you could just change your gender
I find it odd how people openly mock certain things but would die on a hill defending something else
Ultimately does it really matter as long as people are happy? "
My instinct is to agree with this -either biology determines who we are or our internal feelings do.
However, there is a third possibility. If there really is such a thing as a male and female brain then, much like children that are born with both sets of genitals it would presumably be possible to be born with a brain that doesn't match the body. As we've never descended from wolves there is no biological pathway for a wolf brain to be born in a human body so believing you are a wolf can only be explained as some kind of mental health issue.
If we take this line of reasoning then I think it would also be biologically indefensible to argue a gender neutral person, unless we entertain the idea that there are male, female and gender neutral brains.
I have tried having this conversation before on here and always end up being attacked as transphobic but what I'm trying to get at is what do we believe are the underlying grounds for a person's identity claims. If we say they are biological then there needs to be biological evidence (even if not yet found) of each personality type that is being claimed ie a biological difference between male, female, gender neutral and gender fluid brains. If we say that we don't need biology to explain it, we simply need people's feelings then there is no longer any need to look for these differences in biology. However, we also have to accept that people who identify as wolves or indeed anything else should be given the same understanding as those who identify as the opposite sex. Any other position is logically inconsistent.
Mr |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But identify as a wolf!!!!
What is this world coming too
It's going to the dogs.
Feels like it. Saw a story not long ago about a guy who wanted to take his parents to court because they didn't ask his permission to be born!"
Lol saw that, theres a guy who said he identified as a woman so he could take early retirment lol |
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By *etcplCouple
over a year ago
Gapping Fanny |
"Weirdly enough this exact conversation was the accepted narrative for trans people long ago
Everyone viewed it as ridiculous that you could just change your gender
I find it odd how people openly mock certain things but would die on a hill defending something else
Ultimately does it really matter as long as people are happy?
This is a bit different to people born in the wrong body!
Honestly I don't care what people do, as long as it's not hurting anyone. Do you.
But everything has to be SO serious lately.
Something's and sometimes it's nice to just have a light hearted outlook on things.
Obviously I don't want to be a pot noodle like I joked before, but if someone really wanted to be one then that's fine. Being silly from time to time really doesn't have to be made into a negative. "
I know right, whats the world coming to |
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"But identify as a wolf!!!!
What is this world coming too
It's going to the dogs.
Feels like it. Saw a story not long ago about a guy who wanted to take his parents to court because they didn't ask his permission to be born!
Lol saw that, theres a guy who said he identified as a woman so he could take early retirment lol"
How would being a woman help h retire early? I've had six darn years added to my retirement age since I started working |
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"Weirdly enough this exact conversation was the accepted narrative for trans people long ago
Everyone viewed it as ridiculous that you could just change your gender
I find it odd how people openly mock certain things but would die on a hill defending something else
Ultimately does it really matter as long as people are happy?
My instinct is to agree with this -either biology determines who we are or our internal feelings do.
However, there is a third possibility. If there really is such a thing as a male and female brain then, much like children that are born with both sets of genitals it would presumably be possible to be born with a brain that doesn't match the body. As we've never descended from wolves there is no biological pathway for a wolf brain to be born in a human body so believing you are a wolf can only be explained as some kind of mental health issue.
If we take this line of reasoning then I think it would also be biologically indefensible to argue a gender neutral person, unless we entertain the idea that there are male, female and gender neutral brains.
I have tried having this conversation before on here and always end up being attacked as transphobic but what I'm trying to get at is what do we believe are the underlying grounds for a person's identity claims. If we say they are biological then there needs to be biological evidence (even if not yet found) of each personality type that is being claimed ie a biological difference between male, female, gender neutral and gender fluid brains. If we say that we don't need biology to explain it, we simply need people's feelings then there is no longer any need to look for these differences in biology. However, we also have to accept that people who identify as wolves or indeed anything else should be given the same understanding as those who identify as the opposite sex. Any other position is logically inconsistent.
Mr"
It's a fair argument, but all mammals are descended from a common ancestor of we go back enough. We know that dogs can be similar enough to humans in some circumstances as we use/used them for animal testing. Same as mice, pigs, apes etc. So who is to say there is a common linkage. Evolution is kind of lazy in a way of our common ancestor found the optimal way to do something there be no reason for anything to change.
For example the energy source in mammalian cells comes from mitochondria (which in themselves millennia ago were a bug that began a kind of symbiotic relationship with our basic mammalian cells) so that is a bit mental if you think about it. So who is to say that part of our mammalian brains are just conserved regardless of species? |
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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago
Liverpool/Wallasey |
"We know that dogs can be similar enough to humans in some circumstances as we use/used them for animal testing. "
Getting a little preachy here but I'm quite passionate about it.
They still get pointlessly bred, born, shipped off at 16 weeks of age, caged their entire short life, used and tortured in tests and trials that 94% of the time fail once they reach human trials. In the hundreds and thousands. Horrible and inhumane tests on living creatures.
The reasons dogs are used, specifically beagles, is because of their trusting and docile nature toward humans. Not just dogs though, all small animals that can be handled easily.
Preachy rant over. |
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"We know that dogs can be similar enough to humans in some circumstances as we use/used them for animal testing.
Getting a little preachy here but I'm quite passionate about it.
They still get pointlessly bred, born, shipped off at 16 weeks of age, caged their entire short life, used and tortured in tests and trials that 94% of the time fail once they reach human trials. In the hundreds and thousands. Horrible and inhumane tests on living creatures.
The reasons dogs are used, specifically beagles, is because of their trusting and docile nature toward humans. Not just dogs though, all small animals that can be handled easily.
Preachy rant over. "
Just looked at the home office figures, nearly 2500 in 2017. Government needs to change its 2 animal ruling and fund more research into non animal alternatives. |
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"
It's a fair argument, but all mammals are descended from a common ancestor of we go back enough. We know that dogs can be similar enough to humans in some circumstances as we use/used them for animal testing. Same as mice, pigs, apes etc. So who is to say there is a common linkage. Evolution is kind of lazy in a way of our common ancestor found the optimal way to do something there be no reason for anything to change.
For example the energy source in mammalian cells comes from mitochondria (which in themselves millennia ago were a bug that began a kind of symbiotic relationship with our basic mammalian cells) so that is a bit mental if you think about it. So who is to say that part of our mammalian brains are just conserved regardless of species? "
I'm fine with that. I'm fine with any explanation as long as it's applied fairly. If there is a part of our brain that could legitimately make us think we're a wolf then taking the piss out of someone who says that is how they identify is no different to taking the piss out of a trans person.
This is why I keep trying to find an answer to what makes people trans. The cause will necessarily dictate what we as a society do and don't say is a protected characteristic.
I don't want to make anyone feel shit about themselves and god knows trans people suffer far more than their fair share of discrimination and abuse. How we deal with that as a society will only be resolved by understanding it. You get this kind of stories pop up and for some they are a source of amusement but I would put money that a great number of trans people will see this kind of story and think "here we go again" knowing full well that the claim to be a wolf will be compared to how they feel and used as a way to abuse them. This kind of story may be a joke to the majority but for some (not least the poor bugger who is convinced they're a wolf) it has real life and serious consequences.
Mr |
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By *hoirCouple
over a year ago
Bury St Edmunds/Clacton |
"Weirdly enough this exact conversation was the accepted narrative for trans people long ago
Everyone viewed it as ridiculous that you could just change your gender
I find it odd how people openly mock certain things but would die on a hill defending something else
Ultimately does it really matter as long as people are happy? "
You're confusing intersex people.
C |
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"
It's a fair argument, but all mammals are descended from a common ancestor of we go back enough. We know that dogs can be similar enough to humans in some circumstances as we use/used them for animal testing. Same as mice, pigs, apes etc. So who is to say there is a common linkage. Evolution is kind of lazy in a way of our common ancestor found the optimal way to do something there be no reason for anything to change.
For example the energy source in mammalian cells comes from mitochondria (which in themselves millennia ago were a bug that began a kind of symbiotic relationship with our basic mammalian cells) so that is a bit mental if you think about it. So who is to say that part of our mammalian brains are just conserved regardless of species?
I'm fine with that. I'm fine with any explanation as long as it's applied fairly. If there is a part of our brain that could legitimately make us think we're a wolf then taking the piss out of someone who says that is how they identify is no different to taking the piss out of a trans person.
This is why I keep trying to find an answer to what makes people trans. The cause will necessarily dictate what we as a society do and don't say is a protected characteristic.
I don't want to make anyone feel shit about themselves and god knows trans people suffer far more than their fair share of discrimination and abuse. How we deal with that as a society will only be resolved by understanding it. You get this kind of stories pop up and for some they are a source of amusement but I would put money that a great number of trans people will see this kind of story and think "here we go again" knowing full well that the claim to be a wolf will be compared to how they feel and used as a way to abuse them. This kind of story may be a joke to the majority but for some (not least the poor bugger who is convinced they're a wolf) it has real life and serious consequences.
Mr"
Oh totally and wholeheartedly agree. Think I may have misunderstood your point oops  |
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"
It's a fair argument, but all mammals are descended from a common ancestor of we go back enough. We know that dogs can be similar enough to humans in some circumstances as we use/used them for animal testing. Same as mice, pigs, apes etc. So who is to say there is a common linkage. Evolution is kind of lazy in a way of our common ancestor found the optimal way to do something there be no reason for anything to change.
For example the energy source in mammalian cells comes from mitochondria (which in themselves millennia ago were a bug that began a kind of symbiotic relationship with our basic mammalian cells) so that is a bit mental if you think about it. So who is to say that part of our mammalian brains are just conserved regardless of species?
I'm fine with that. I'm fine with any explanation as long as it's applied fairly. If there is a part of our brain that could legitimately make us think we're a wolf then taking the piss out of someone who says that is how they identify is no different to taking the piss out of a trans person.
This is why I keep trying to find an answer to what makes people trans. The cause will necessarily dictate what we as a society do and don't say is a protected characteristic.
I don't want to make anyone feel shit about themselves and god knows trans people suffer far more than their fair share of discrimination and abuse. How we deal with that as a society will only be resolved by understanding it. You get this kind of stories pop up and for some they are a source of amusement but I would put money that a great number of trans people will see this kind of story and think "here we go again" knowing full well that the claim to be a wolf will be compared to how they feel and used as a way to abuse them. This kind of story may be a joke to the majority but for some (not least the poor bugger who is convinced they're a wolf) it has real life and serious consequences.
Mr"
Will there ever b an answer to why some people are trans? I've questioned it deeply I even questioned was it something I done ate? During pregnancy as silly as that sounds! I felt that I failed my child by not bearing her with the correct body! I now just accept it is what it is! She is a beautiful happy young lady now! And that makes me happy and very very proud x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Weirdly enough this exact conversation was the accepted narrative for trans people long ago
Everyone viewed it as ridiculous that you could just change your gender
I find it odd how people openly mock certain things but would die on a hill defending something else
Ultimately does it really matter as long as people are happy? "
Just wait a few decades. The acronym will take longer to recite that the Klingon alphabet! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I wonder how many wolves are wandering around identifying as human..."
I’ve seen a documentary which showed at least 1. I think it was called “Brother Bear”. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What makes someone human?
What makes someone a wolf?
"
Maybe worth a punt to ask someone who identified as a Taxonomist?
Can we identify as a Moderator should we transgress on this forum? It will make a few happy surely. And apparently happiness is all that matters. So lets put it to the test. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What makes someone human?
What makes someone a wolf?
Considering we share nearly 85% not much different I suppose.
But it's a common enough concept throughout human history. Plenty of myths on shape shifting from all parts of the world. And native Americans believe in spirit animals. Maybe we're less open to these ideas now than we used to be. "
Quite, and not long before that period people would be boiled alive to see if their wounds healed - as a forum of trial by divinity. Maybe we should revisit that too? |
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"But identify as a wolf!!!!
What is this world coming to "
Not wanting to make lite of people feelings you are what you are but you can live your life how feel and you have to accept that not everyone Gives a Fuck. |
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"What makes someone human?
What makes someone a wolf?
Considering we share nearly 85% not much different I suppose.
But it's a common enough concept throughout human history. Plenty of myths on shape shifting from all parts of the world. And native Americans believe in spirit animals. Maybe we're less open to these ideas now than we used to be.
Quite, and not long before that period people would be boiled alive to see if their wounds healed - as a forum of trial by divinity. Maybe we should revisit that too? "
Think native Americans and certain tribes in the world still believe in spirit guides etc. Some just feel more in tune with nature. People believe in horoscopes, religion and all manner of things. To me it's no different. |
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"
It's a fair argument, but all mammals are descended from a common ancestor of we go back enough. We know that dogs can be similar enough to humans in some circumstances as we use/used them for animal testing. Same as mice, pigs, apes etc. So who is to say there is a common linkage. Evolution is kind of lazy in a way of our common ancestor found the optimal way to do something there be no reason for anything to change.
For example the energy source in mammalian cells comes from mitochondria (which in themselves millennia ago were a bug that began a kind of symbiotic relationship with our basic mammalian cells) so that is a bit mental if you think about it. So who is to say that part of our mammalian brains are just conserved regardless of species?
I'm fine with that. I'm fine with any explanation as long as it's applied fairly. If there is a part of our brain that could legitimately make us think we're a wolf then taking the piss out of someone who says that is how they identify is no different to taking the piss out of a trans person.
This is why I keep trying to find an answer to what makes people trans. The cause will necessarily dictate what we as a society do and don't say is a protected characteristic.
I don't want to make anyone feel shit about themselves and god knows trans people suffer far more than their fair share of discrimination and abuse. How we deal with that as a society will only be resolved by understanding it. You get this kind of stories pop up and for some they are a source of amusement but I would put money that a great number of trans people will see this kind of story and think "here we go again" knowing full well that the claim to be a wolf will be compared to how they feel and used as a way to abuse them. This kind of story may be a joke to the majority but for some (not least the poor bugger who is convinced they're a wolf) it has real life and serious consequences.
Mr
Will there ever b an answer to why some people are trans? I've questioned it deeply I even questioned was it something I done ate? During pregnancy as silly as that sounds! I felt that I failed my child by not bearing her with the correct body! I now just accept it is what it is! She is a beautiful happy young lady now! And that makes me happy and very very proud x"
I think, until we know, this is the best solution. Sadly, until we do understand what the reasons are there is no way to refute the logic that someone who identifies as a wolf has a much right to do so and is worthy of a much acceptance and legal protection as someone who identifies as being assigned the wrong gender. Like many others, I find this idea crazy even whilst trying to keep an open mind that it may turn out to be true.
Mr |
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"
It's a fair argument, but all mammals are descended from a common ancestor of we go back enough. We know that dogs can be similar enough to humans in some circumstances as we use/used them for animal testing. Same as mice, pigs, apes etc. So who is to say there is a common linkage. Evolution is kind of lazy in a way of our common ancestor found the optimal way to do something there be no reason for anything to change.
For example the energy source in mammalian cells comes from mitochondria (which in themselves millennia ago were a bug that began a kind of symbiotic relationship with our basic mammalian cells) so that is a bit mental if you think about it. So who is to say that part of our mammalian brains are just conserved regardless of species?
I'm fine with that. I'm fine with any explanation as long as it's applied fairly. If there is a part of our brain that could legitimately make us think we're a wolf then taking the piss out of someone who says that is how they identify is no different to taking the piss out of a trans person.
This is why I keep trying to find an answer to what makes people trans. The cause will necessarily dictate what we as a society do and don't say is a protected characteristic.
I don't want to make anyone feel shit about themselves and god knows trans people suffer far more than their fair share of discrimination and abuse. How we deal with that as a society will only be resolved by understanding it. You get this kind of stories pop up and for some they are a source of amusement but I would put money that a great number of trans people will see this kind of story and think "here we go again" knowing full well that the claim to be a wolf will be compared to how they feel and used as a way to abuse them. This kind of story may be a joke to the majority but for some (not least the poor bugger who is convinced they're a wolf) it has real life and serious consequences.
Mr
Oh totally and wholeheartedly agree. Think I may have misunderstood your point oops "
No probs. I think I'm doing a crap job of explaining myself today.
Mr |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"…..
I think, until we know, this is the best solution. Sadly, until we do understand what the reasons are there is no way to refute the logic that someone who identifies as a wolf has a much right to do so and is worthy of a much acceptance and legal protection as someone who identifies as being assigned the wrong gender. Like many others, I find this idea crazy even whilst trying to keep an open mind that it may turn out to be true.
Mr"
So how would that legal protection work. Would the ‘they’ (will all the being that) receive the legal protections of a wolf, a human or both?
If they decided to act out as a wolf and attack a farmer’s sheep, could they be shot?
Surely to treat them differently to their identification would at the very least to disrespect their choice? Should they therefore receive preferential treatment?
It is not quite the dame as gender fluidity/identity/binary or whatever term applies; as simple fact is, whatever letter of the alphabet - all letters are human and therefore deserve the same respect, protection and dignity.
If we extend this to all non human identities where will it end? How will the legal system adapt? Will we see a class action to sue all vegetarians because a lawyer decides to identify as a cucumber and prosecutes against the genocide of their kinfolk?
I’m not sure conflating intra species gender identification with inter species identification does a service to the former. Even if not seems like good virtue signalling.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Im still on the lookout for the human that identify as a 1986 Epson lq2500 dot matrix printer.
Im not doing too well  "
there are plenty around, they’re just hard to ‘spot’ |
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