I'm into Adler at the minute.
Obviously our upbringing and genetics plays a part in our original perceptions and reactions. But we still make our own choices with varying degrees of awareness of the factors at play. |
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I think it's enormously complicated.
My reading is that our biology and circumstances somewhere between determine and limit our choices, but we're not necessarily aware of that. Some of these things can be overcome, others can't, and it differs between individuals based on biology and circumstances.
But on an experiential level it does appear a lot more like free will.
I think politically we put a lot of emphasis on individualism that I don't believe is warranted from what we know about minds and how they function. |
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By *Vine OP Man
over a year ago
Just north of Bristol |
It is complicated isn’t it.
I think that we probably don’t, although we all experience life as if we do. I’m probably more of a compatiblist though. As if I had a choice  |
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"It is complicated isn’t it.
I think that we probably don’t, although we all experience life as if we do. I’m probably more of a compatiblist though. As if I had a choice "
Yes, I err towards we don't or mostly don't, and the extent to which we do is also predetermined.
People think they're special, when really it's just how their neurological chemicals interact with other stuff that also has or is chemical reactions. |
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By *Vine OP Man
over a year ago
Just north of Bristol |
"I'm into Adler at the minute.
Obviously our upbringing and genetics plays a part in our original perceptions and reactions. But we still make our own choices with varying degrees of awareness of the factors at play."
But Libets experiments seem to point to the fact that our un_conscious has already made choices before we consciously knew we had. In which case were we really free to choose? |
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By *Vine OP Man
over a year ago
Just north of Bristol |
"It is complicated isn’t it.
I think that we probably don’t, although we all experience life as if we do. I’m probably more of a compatiblist though. As if I had a choice
Yes, I err towards we don't or mostly don't, and the extent to which we do is also predetermined.
People think they're special, when really it's just how their neurological chemicals interact with other stuff that also has or is chemical reactions."
I agree. And I’m not sure if it’s actually comforting or disturbing to think we don’t have as much freedom as we like to imagine
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By *ucka39Man
over a year ago
Newcastle |
"It is complicated isn’t it.
I think that we probably don’t, although we all experience life as if we do. I’m probably more of a compatiblist though. As if I had a choice
Yes, I err towards we don't or mostly don't, and the extent to which we do is also predetermined.
People think they're special, when really it's just how their neurological chemicals interact with other stuff that also has or is chemical reactions."
Ok not special but gifted  |
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I'm increasingly of the opinion that most of the world around us is a construction of our myths and fantasies. We just convince themselves that they're true.
Not just free will. History - an interpretation set out by the powerful. Why science goes in one direction rather than another. etc. |
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By *Vine OP Man
over a year ago
Just north of Bristol |
"I'm increasingly of the opinion that most of the world around us is a construction of our myths and fantasies. We just convince themselves that they're true.
Not just free will. History - an interpretation set out by the powerful. Why science goes in one direction rather than another. etc."
Well the powerful control the popular media. But do they have a choice? |
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"I'm increasingly of the opinion that most of the world around us is a construction of our myths and fantasies. We just convince themselves that they're true.
Not just free will. History - an interpretation set out by the powerful. Why science goes in one direction rather than another. etc.
Well the powerful control the popular media. But do they have a choice? "
I suppose it must be innate to try to protect our nearest and dearest and our personal interests, and to use the force that works for you.
But presumably - thinking of things like trauma, deprivation, etc as limiting factors on neurology - the powerful are most likely to have less constraints than others, and therefore have less excuse for being shitheels. |
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By *Vine OP Man
over a year ago
Just north of Bristol |
"I'm increasingly of the opinion that most of the world around us is a construction of our myths and fantasies. We just convince themselves that they're true.
Not just free will. History - an interpretation set out by the powerful. Why science goes in one direction rather than another. etc.
Well the powerful control the popular media. But do they have a choice?
I suppose it must be innate to try to protect our nearest and dearest and our personal interests, and to use the force that works for you.
But presumably - thinking of things like trauma, deprivation, etc as limiting factors on neurology - the powerful are most likely to have less constraints than others, and therefore have less excuse for being shitheels."
It’s a tricky one. Is a determinist universe incompatible with moral responsibility. I don’t think so. |
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"I'm increasingly of the opinion that most of the world around us is a construction of our myths and fantasies. We just convince themselves that they're true.
Not just free will. History - an interpretation set out by the powerful. Why science goes in one direction rather than another. etc.
Well the powerful control the popular media. But do they have a choice?
I suppose it must be innate to try to protect our nearest and dearest and our personal interests, and to use the force that works for you.
But presumably - thinking of things like trauma, deprivation, etc as limiting factors on neurology - the powerful are most likely to have less constraints than others, and therefore have less excuse for being shitheels.
It’s a tricky one. Is a determinist universe incompatible with moral responsibility. I don’t think so. "
I think it's relative.
To the extent that you have flexibility in how you act, you should aim to act morally. Those with more capacity have more responsibility. (Hypothetical: we hold a thirty year old who shoots someone more responsible than a thirteen year old, who is more responsible than a three year old)
I think that's true on a broader scale too, rather than just saying "you're criminally responsible at age X and an adult at age Y and then you're completely responsible" - culpability is far more nuanced.
We should all try to be responsible, but we should also be aware that some have more capability than others. |
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By *TG3Man
over a year ago
Swanage |
"Are you a libertarian? A Compatiblist or a hard determinist?
Do you believe we have free will or not? "
i believe we have it but in order to have it and maintain it you need to be off piste |
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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago
Dubai & Nottingham |
Free will all the way , but not a libertarian , I think we are designed to be interdependent not independent so more a utilitarianist !
A friend of mine just bought a Lucia 3 light and keeps threatening to unlock my mind a bit more , I might give it a try and see it changes my views  |
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