What are your thoughts on gentrification? Positive or negative, I’m interested.
One of my favourite lines from Caleb Femi’s poetry is
‘when hipsters take selfies on the corners where our friends died,
The rent goes up’
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When we live in a postmodern world, every act of history is for sale and everything is a ‘look’.
Revitalising areas, especially deprived and run down inner city communities, is a positive thing. Should areas be shorn of their history though? That’s a thorny one |
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"When we live in a postmodern world, every act of history is for sale and everything is a ‘look’.
Revitalising areas, especially deprived and run down inner city communities, is a positive thing. Should areas be shorn of their history though? That’s a thorny one"
And the people! The people in the communities  |
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It’s the circle of life. Areas had lives before we lived in them that were often radically different to what we now think is “normal”. They will change again after we have left. I think change is good. |
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By *alcon77Man 2 weeks ago
The stalinist woke dictatorship gulag |
"What are your thoughts on gentrification? Positive or negative, I’m interested.
One of my favourite lines from Caleb Femi’s poetry is
‘when hipsters take selfies on the corners where our friends died,
The rent goes up’
"
That's a great quote  |
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"When we live in a postmodern world, every act of history is for sale and everything is a ‘look’.
Revitalising areas, especially deprived and run down inner city communities, is a positive thing. Should areas be shorn of their history though? That’s a thorny one
And the people! The people in the communities "
Community grows and changes. Wanting to remain isolated is those groups is a different issue from gentrification |
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All the character is being sucked out of Manchester. The people who have always lived there are being priced out so people from London can move in because they think £1600 a month for a studio flat is reasonable because it has yoga studio in the lobby and a garden on the roof. |
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"All the character is being sucked out of Manchester. The people who have always lived there are being priced out so people from London can move in because they think £1600 a month for a studio flat is reasonable because it has yoga studio in the lobby and a garden on the roof. "
Compared to centre some areas of London that probably is reasonable |
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"All the character is being sucked out of Manchester. The people who have always lived there are being priced out so people from London can move in because they think £1600 a month for a studio flat is reasonable because it has yoga studio in the lobby and a garden on the roof.
Compared to centre some areas of London that probably is reasonable "
I can just see Pickles in a yoga studio and a rooftop garden - definitely his vibe  |
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"When we live in a postmodern world, every act of history is for sale and everything is a ‘look’.
Revitalising areas, especially deprived and run down inner city communities, is a positive thing. Should areas be shorn of their history though? That’s a thorny one
And the people! The people in the communities
Community grows and changes. Wanting to remain isolated is those groups is a different issue from gentrification "
I think the issue for me is more communities that have built real community in these areas over years are being priced out or pushed out. Also that people think that developing areas is only worth doing if it means the people that currently live there are no longer there. That’s not natural change and it’s invariably linked to gentrification. |
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"All the character is being sucked out of Manchester. The people who have always lived there are being priced out so people from London can move in because they think £1600 a month for a studio flat is reasonable because it has yoga studio in the lobby and a garden on the roof.
Compared to centre some areas of London that probably is reasonable
I can just see Pickles in a yoga studio and a rooftop garden - definitely his vibe "
 where would my daughter sleep :’(
But if I was a single person living alone you are probably right  |
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"All the character is being sucked out of Manchester. The people who have always lived there are being priced out so people from London can move in because they think £1600 a month for a studio flat is reasonable because it has yoga studio in the lobby and a garden on the roof.
Compared to centre some areas of London that probably is reasonable "
But not reasonable for Manchester though |
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"When we live in a postmodern world, every act of history is for sale and everything is a ‘look’.
Revitalising areas, especially deprived and run down inner city communities, is a positive thing. Should areas be shorn of their history though? That’s a thorny one
And the people! The people in the communities
Community grows and changes. Wanting to remain isolated is those groups is a different issue from gentrification
I think the issue for me is more communities that have built real community in these areas over years are being priced out or pushed out. Also that people think that developing areas is only worth doing if it means the people that currently live there are no longer there. That’s not natural change and it’s invariably linked to gentrification. "
Hmm I now understand what you're getting at. Not city gentrification but since the 80's rural Welsh speaking areas have been struggling with people buying second home. Same happens down in Cornwall.
It has devastated communities here, where youngsters can no longer buy homes where they grew up. Councils are starting to try and limit the amount of second homes, but it's too little too late |
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"When we live in a postmodern world, every act of history is for sale and everything is a ‘look’.
Revitalising areas, especially deprived and run down inner city communities, is a positive thing. Should areas be shorn of their history though? That’s a thorny one
And the people! The people in the communities
Community grows and changes. Wanting to remain isolated is those groups is a different issue from gentrification
I think the issue for me is more communities that have built real community in these areas over years are being priced out or pushed out. Also that people think that developing areas is only worth doing if it means the people that currently live there are no longer there. That’s not natural change and it’s invariably linked to gentrification.
Hmm I now understand what you're getting at. Not city gentrification but since the 80's rural Welsh speaking areas have been struggling with people buying second home. Same happens down in Cornwall.
It has devastated communities here, where youngsters can no longer buy homes where they grew up. Councils are starting to try and limit the amount of second homes, but it's too little too late "
that sucks. But councils and government won’t do anything. Will they limit people owning multiple places in cities? Ofc not. Even though that’s also pricing people out of buying where they grew up. Meritocracy init. |
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"When we live in a postmodern world, every act of history is for sale and everything is a ‘look’.
Revitalising areas, especially deprived and run down inner city communities, is a positive thing. Should areas be shorn of their history though? That’s a thorny one
And the people! The people in the communities
Community grows and changes. Wanting to remain isolated is those groups is a different issue from gentrification
I think the issue for me is more communities that have built real community in these areas over years are being priced out or pushed out. Also that people think that developing areas is only worth doing if it means the people that currently live there are no longer there. That’s not natural change and it’s invariably linked to gentrification.
Hmm I now understand what you're getting at. Not city gentrification but since the 80's rural Welsh speaking areas have been struggling with people buying second home. Same happens down in Cornwall.
It has devastated communities here, where youngsters can no longer buy homes where they grew up. Councils are starting to try and limit the amount of second homes, but it's too little too late "
I do think that the issue of second homes is a big one in rural and holiday orientated communities. Personally I would support the ability for councils in those areas affected by this to be able to charge _much_ higher council tax on houses that are not someone’s primary residence. |
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"When we live in a postmodern world, every act of history is for sale and everything is a ‘look’.
Revitalising areas, especially deprived and run down inner city communities, is a positive thing. Should areas be shorn of their history though? That’s a thorny one
And the people! The people in the communities
Community grows and changes. Wanting to remain isolated is those groups is a different issue from gentrification
I think the issue for me is more communities that have built real community in these areas over years are being priced out or pushed out. Also that people think that developing areas is only worth doing if it means the people that currently live there are no longer there. That’s not natural change and it’s invariably linked to gentrification.
Hmm I now understand what you're getting at. Not city gentrification but since the 80's rural Welsh speaking areas have been struggling with people buying second home. Same happens down in Cornwall.
It has devastated communities here, where youngsters can no longer buy homes where they grew up. Councils are starting to try and limit the amount of second homes, but it's too little too late that sucks. But councils and government won’t do anything. Will they limit people owning multiple places in cities? Ofc not. Even though that’s also pricing people out of buying where they grew up. Meritocracy init. "
Yep, that's all they've done here is increase their council tax. But these are second home I'm guessing the majority can afford it. Some new housing estates a proportion can only be bought by locals. But they still need to be able to afford them. These are rural communities there aren't many highly paid jobs here. It's just sucks, completely. |
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That’s a great quote. I think in cases where it’s destroyed communities to move the hipsters in it’s kinda sad. There’s pro’s and cons to it I suppose, I guess it depends on at what and who’s expense |
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"When we live in a postmodern world, every act of history is for sale and everything is a ‘look’.
Revitalising areas, especially deprived and run down inner city communities, is a positive thing. Should areas be shorn of their history though? That’s a thorny one
And the people! The people in the communities
Community grows and changes. Wanting to remain isolated is those groups is a different issue from gentrification
I think the issue for me is more communities that have built real community in these areas over years are being priced out or pushed out. Also that people think that developing areas is only worth doing if it means the people that currently live there are no longer there. That’s not natural change and it’s invariably linked to gentrification. "
I agree. However, it's happened over and over again over the centuries. I look at some areas of Liverpool, for example. Where wealthy merchants built houses on what were the outskirts of the town (often merchants linked with the sl@ve and cotton trade, yes). As the industrial revolution thundered on and the nature of the commerce in the city changed, those big four storey houses eventually became sub-divided and rented out in parts. Then the flats were sub-divided into individual rooms being rented out and the big houses became slums. In the mid 20th century they became seriously derelict and many were demolished. Race riots happened in this area in the early 80s and the area was by then described as a run down inner city area.
Nowadays, the remaining big houses in that area have largely been renovated and are fairly expensive apartments (by Liverpool standards) or Airbnb rentals.
Is it gentrification to refurb what became run-down big houses and sell/rent them at high prices? Big houses that started out in the late 1700s as very exclusive and expensive homes for wealthy people to buy? Houses that since the mid/late 1800s housed mainly lower middle and working class people who were renting rooms/flats in a sub-divided bigger original dwelling?
It's a question I really don't know the answer to but I see it in Manchester and Salford. Salford Quays has become extremely expensive to live in (by local standards) and families who have lived in that area for several generations are now priced out. Activities for their children are too expensive and what little open space (often brown, not green) existed is now sold to build sky scráper apartments for shared living at over £1200 a month. BUT nearby is Ordsall Hall. A Tudor mansion house that was very, very posh by the standards of its day. The area was once well to do. The cities expanded and industrialised and the outskirts became the inner city and it's now gentrified again and become quite exclusive. Around and around the circle goes.
It's a difficult question with no easy answer. I know that the Salford Quays area is a much nicer and safer place now than it was when we moved to that area in 2005. But we couldn't have afforded it if the prices were then (in equivalent terms) what they are now. We couldn't have afforded the holiday clubs or nurseries for our son, nor activities in the holidays/weekends etc. |
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Gentrification is not a positive thing in my eyes.
The idea that it's some kind of solution to degradation rather than a causal factor is quite naive.
It breaks up communities and displaces people. All so investors can get prime land at a fraction of its real value. It's theft on a generational scale.
And what's the end result? A bunch of plastic clad flats that'll look awful in 20 years and a drive thru Starbucks.
I'm all for progress but to me that's more akin to idiocracy than progress. It's just a predictable cycle that benefits those with the wealth to exploit it and with no real ingenuity.
Progress would be investing in people so that existing communities can thrive. |
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