FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > John venebals
John venebals
Jump to: Newest in thread
| |||
| |||
 | |||
| |||
"not wishing to belittle this subject but i honetly thought this was about the football guy. in answer to your question - yes. what he did was wrong beyong words but if he is not protected all that will happen is people will take things into their own hands and he then becomes the victim" Lock him up for life as its cheaper inside. That or reintroduce the noose. | |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
 | |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
"Hes not a victim jamie and all the others they are victims yes you can argue at 10 or 11 yes they needed protection because they were children themselves but he is an adult now and any action of breaking the law should sever that protection." i didnt say he was a victim i said that if his protection was removed he would become a victim due to the vigilanties that would seek retrobution on Jamies behalf | |||
"He should have his protected status taken away and be allowed to sink or swim with the rest of the paedo prison community." He was in that section anyway, due to his identity. So you have what you want. The media knowing his new name is unnecessary - he's behind bars and unlikely to get out for a (relatively) disproportionate amount of time, so poses no threat to anyone. | |||
"He should have his protected status taken away and be allowed to sink or swim with the rest of the paedo prison community. He was in that section anyway, due to his identity. So you have what you want. The media knowing his new name is unnecessary - he's behind bars and unlikely to get out for a (relatively) disproportionate amount of time, so poses no threat to anyone." there is no (relatively)disproportionate amount of time for,john venables. | |||
 | |||
"there is no (relatively)disproportionate amount of time for,john venables." Yes there is. Other child murderers exist. He's about to serve possibly the longest prison sentence in British penal history. Other child murderers will get less. I'm not commenting on whether it's right or wrong, I'm saying it's inconsistent. | |||
"there is no (relatively)disproportionate amount of time for,john venables. Yes there is. Other child murderers exist. He's about to serve possibly the longest prison sentence in British penal history. Other child murderers will get less. I'm not commenting on whether it's right or wrong, I'm saying it's inconsistent." people who kill children,in this fashion.should never be freed.there are cases,where people have been given longer sentences,and did not commit murder.of any sort. | |||
"not wishing to belittle this subject but i honetly thought this was about the football guy. in answer to your question - yes. what he did was wrong beyong words but if he is not protected all that will happen is people will take things into their own hands and he then becomes the victim" He is protected because he was a child wen he killed that poor child, he is a adult now so that protectin shud be lifted, How many murders get offerd the same protection he has got? It was understandable wen he was a child, and if he had gone the rest of his life totally rehabilitated then by all means let him remain protected, but he hasnt, he is a dangerous MAN now,IF convicted it should be made public who he is just like every other adult who convicted | |||
| |||
| |||
"there is no (relatively)disproportionate amount of time for,john venables. Yes there is. Other child murderers exist. He's about to serve possibly the longest prison sentence in British penal history. Other child murderers will get less. I'm not commenting on whether it's right or wrong, I'm saying it's inconsistent. people who kill children,in this fashion.should never be freed.there are cases,where people have been given longer sentences,and did not commit murder.of any sort." I agree with both comments, it is inconsistent...but there will never, in my mind, be a term long enough for a child abuser/murderer. crimes against children are, without a doubt, the most heinous. that said, in my opinion, vigilante retribution is also not a viable option. the law is there to serve a purpose and in order to uphold those laws they would need to bring charges against anyone that took such action. this would, to society, feel like a further injustice and so the wheel would keep turning. if it is evident that there is no chance of a criminal of this nature being re-habilitated back into society, then he should be confined indefinitely | |||
"there are cases,where people have been given longer sentences,and did not commit murder.of any sort." I know I'm prejudging it, but my point today is that IF he's found guilty of this new offence, then the previous sentence will apply, which was life. And the circumstances of the original crime mean that he will almost certainly never get out. Assuming he lives until the average age of 77, he'll have spent approx 55 years of his life behind bars. My point is that very few people will have served a longer sentence. | |||
"there are cases,where people have been given longer sentences,and did not commit murder.of any sort. I know I'm prejudging it, but my point today is that IF he's found guilty of this new offence, then the previous sentence will apply, which was life. And the circumstances of the original crime mean that he will almost certainly never get out. Assuming he lives until the average age of 77, he'll have spent approx 55 years of his life behind bars. My point is that very few people will have served a longer sentence." s d m.if he gets ten years,i will be very surprised.the british justice system,is all wind and piss. | |||
"s d m.if he gets ten years,i will be very surprised.the british justice system,is all wind and piss." Fair enough - I would take that bet if it wasn't such a long term investment  .
I agree that our justice system is riddled with flaws, but I actually think a combination of factors have combined to deliver *more* natural justice than is sometimes the case. | |||
"i didnt say he was a victim i said that if his protection was removed he would become a victim due to the vigilanties that would seek retrobution on Jamies behalf" You are correct in what you say, however he is now 27! Maybe a little vigilantisum is what is required in the country at the moment, as it seems to me that the courts have forgoten that they are there to look after the rights and protect society from criminals not protect vermin from the consiquences of their actions. Personally I find it disgusting that this particular little shit is still being shielded by the courts and that althoough he has a life sentence and can therefore be locked up for the rest of his life without any reason being given, that he is to get another trial where he will yet again be protected by the courts! | |||
"that said, in my opinion, vigilante retribution is also not a viable option. the law is there to serve a purpose" Absolutely! and that purpose is to protect society from itself by giving us a set of hard and fast rules to live by and punishments for those who break the rules, thus removing the need for mob justice. However when the law becomes so corrupted that the criminal has more rights than the victim. A situation, that in my view, we find ourselves in. Then what alternative is there to mob justice? The sad fact is that legal systems grow out of vigilantism, and when a legal system forgets what it is there for vigilantism must resurface or we descend into anarchy. | |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
Sod that, let em all out, sort the deficit out... | |||
"£40k per year to lock people up?
Sod that, let em all out, sort the deficit out..."yeah thats just an average now add into that ones in specialist prisons pedo wings etc and multiply it by the amount of people in prison, and on shorter sentences its a big amount! x | |||
"the 2 lads who murdered jamie bulger should not have been protected in the first place they did the crime and killed that little boy they should be bloody strung up and let the lads family in at them. lisa. "I think we all agree that the crime was horrific and so very sad but they we children themselves,naturally as a child you dont really have a full concept of rite and wrong and a full value of human life also in ther case they had a very dysfunctional upbringing to add, if they was adults when the crime was committed then no dont give them new identities,but as they was children themselves the courts had no option,now he is an adult and commiting crimes i dont see wot the debate is?? He has committed a crime that if me or you had been found guilty then we wouldnt be afforded no protection, he should be tried and only after and if he is convicted should his identity be revealed,if he goes threw life like the other kid and never commits another crime he should be left alone as it probably means he has been fully rehabilitated, too many men/women have there identities revealed before they are convicted of any crime,and how can that be fair and just? | |||
 | |||
| |||
 | |||
"WE SECOND HIS AN EVIL TWISTED B*******D "If he is CONVICTED then he will just be put back in jail,until the parole board see fit for him to be released, which will prob be never, the other child as gone off and is living his life rehabilitated,kids dont have a value of human life,this is a very sad and delicate subject, IF he was a adult commiting these crimes you wouldnt have and arguement with me, death penalty for all child killers/peados, no exeption! | |||
| |||
| |||
"Vigilantism is a ridiculous suggestion, ignoring the law just descends into anarchy. If you don't like the law either move country or do something about changing it, don't bitch about it in forums!" Of course it is mate, some people on here talk without thinking, its a subject that shouldnt be discussed on here anyways really, i just could help myself with the ignorance of some people | |||
"Vigilantism is a ridiculous suggestion, ignoring the law just descends into anarchy. If you don't like the law either move country or do something about changing it, don't bitch about it in forums! Of course it is mate, some people on here talk without thinking, its a subject that shouldnt be discussed on here anyways really, i just could help myself with the ignorance of some people " What a wonderful attitude Kinky, effectively what you are saying is that this open forum should not be allowed discus a difficult subject, do you really believe that we should be subjected to such Stalinist repression of free speech? Did you fail to think about what you are suggesting, or are you ignoring points made because you do not agree with them? | |||
| |||
"the 2 lads who murdered jamie bulger should not have been protected in the first place they did the crime and killed that little boy they should be bloody strung up and let the lads family in at them. lisa. "so you would have slung two children out to be beaten to death? how the hell does that make you any better than what they did? you and everyone else hates them for killing a child but you seem to think its ok for them to have been killed as a children isnt that a bit like saying to your child "stop f**king swearing"
sorry but i do not get that mentality at all, when they killed that little boy they did way beyound what you could describe as wrong, but to do the same to them makes us just as bad, so what happens then, someone kills us in revenge for their death....and so on. you just can not live in a society like that unless you want to revert back 500 years, and i know i dont | |||
"what people have to remember is media hype, all you know is what they want you to know, personally i dont beleive anything i read in the papers, they the biggest scare mongers going! i mean how do we even know he had porn on his PC? because The Sun says he did?!! i'm not sticking up for him or anyone else but people get to cought up in the media and half of its grossly exaggerated, i mean don't anyone else think its a bit of a coincidence that the person the likes of the sun news paper has been fighting to keep in prison comes out and next thing you know hes supposed to have child porn on his computer and gets arrested again? "To answer you quickly, firstly he has been charged so it is not the media that is saying it it is the Crown Prosecution Service and the police, second it is a judge who has said that we may be told the nature and number of charges he faces and how many images are involved. Second he is now 27, allowing that he has been held in prison for a few months now he may have been 26 when sent back to prison, he was 19 when released so has been out for between 6 and 8 years, are you seriously suggesting that the Sun has spent over half a decade setting up that little shit? Finally don't you think that it is a lot more lightly that one of the detectives involved in the investigation or an officer from either the vice squad or serious crime squads gave the story to his or her contacts in the Media when it realized that Venables was hiding behind his judicial anonymity! | |||
"what people have to remember is media hype, all you know is what they want you to know, personally i dont beleive anything i read in the papers, they the biggest scare mongers going! i mean how do we even know he had porn on his PC? because The Sun says he did?!! i'm not sticking up for him or anyone else but people get to cought up in the media and half of its grossly exaggerated, i mean don't anyone else think its a bit of a coincidence that the person the likes of the sun news paper has been fighting to keep in prison comes out and next thing you know hes supposed to have child porn on his computer and gets arrested again?
To answer you quickly, firstly he has been charged so it is not the media that is saying it it is the Crown Prosecution Service and the police, second it is a judge who has said that we may be told the nature and number of charges he faces and how many images are involved.
Second he is now 27, allowing that he has been held in prison for a few months now he may have been 26 when sent back to prison, he was 19 when released so has been out for between 6 and 8 years, are you seriously suggesting that the Sun has spent over half a decade setting up that little shit?
Finally don't you think that it is a lot more lightly that one of the detectives involved in the investigation or an officer from either the vice squad or serious crime squads
gave the story to his or her contacts in the Media when it realized that Venables was hiding behind his judicial anonymity! " guess that told me lol
maybe i should start reading the papers so i can keep up with things  | |||
"Vigilantism is a ridiculous suggestion, ignoring the law just descends into anarchy. If you don't like the law either move country or do something about changing it, don't bitch about it in forums! Of course it is mate, some people on here talk without thinking, its a subject that shouldnt be discussed on here anyways really, i just could help myself with the ignorance of some people What a wonderful attitude Kinky, effectively what you are saying is that this open forum should not be allowed discus a difficult subject, do you really believe that we should be subjected to such Stalinist repression of free speech? Did you fail to think about what you are suggesting, or are you ignoring points made because you do not agree with them?" Far from it, its a subject that raises far too many raw emotions and valid/non-valid points to say who is rite or wrong,therefore far too sensitive to be discussed on here in my opinion,esp wen you have people suggest the 2 boys be strung up and be left to the bulger familie is DISGUSTING,if you or anyone believes thats way the country shud be run then there no better than any other child killer, they were too young to value human life,theve served the time deemed rite by judges/home office/parole board, let them live in anominity IF there law abiding, if not let them lose it like evry other ADULT criminal. | |||
"Vigilantism is a ridiculous suggestion, ignoring the law just descends into anarchy. If you don't like the law either move country or do something about changing it, don't bitch about it in forums! Of course it is mate, some people on here talk without thinking, its a subject that shouldnt be discussed on here anyways really, i just could help myself with the ignorance of some people What a wonderful attitude Kinky, effectively what you are saying is that this open forum should not be allowed discus a difficult subject, do you really believe that we should be subjected to such Stalinist repression of free speech? Did you fail to think about what you are suggesting, or are you ignoring points made because you do not agree with them? Far from it, its a subject that raises far too many raw emotions and valid/non-valid points to say who is rite or wrong,therefore far too sensitive to be discussed on here in my opinion,esp wen you have people suggest the 2 boys be strung up and be left to the bulger familie is DISGUSTING,if you or anyone believes thats way the country shud be run then there no better than any other child killer, they were too young to value human life,theve served the time deemed rite by judges/home office/parole board, let them live in anominity IF there law abiding, if not let them lose it like evry other ADULT criminal. " I agree with much of what you have just said, however the idea that we should not discus this subject because of the raw emotions it raises is in my view stupid. The reason I say this is because if these basic animal emotions are not brought into the open and the reasons for them discussed, by the time they do surface they take the form of actions on streets rather than words on computer screens. At th risk of repeating myself, the rule of law and any body of laws grows out of the need of society to protect its self from the actions of criminals, hysterical mobs and vigilante justice. However when the body becomes so corrupted that laws are made for there own sake and the victim has less rights than the criminal then there is no alternative but to revert to vigilante justice and mob rule. In my view we are at that tipping point now and I would much rather see a few amoral shits, who believe that they have the right to do as they will and then be protected from the consequences of their actions, be lynched than see our civilization be destroyed and a decent into another dark age. Just my view, but we as a society are at the same stage as the Roman Empire in the late 3rd century. | |||
"Vigilantism is a ridiculous suggestion, ignoring the law just descends into anarchy. If you don't like the law either move country or do something about changing it, don't bitch about it in forums! Of course it is mate, some people on here talk without thinking, its a subject that shouldnt be discussed on here anyways really, i just could help myself with the ignorance of some people What a wonderful attitude Kinky, effectively what you are saying is that this open forum should not be allowed discus a difficult subject, do you really believe that we should be subjected to such Stalinist repression of free speech? Did you fail to think about what you are suggesting, or are you ignoring points made because you do not agree with them? Far from it, its a subject that raises far too many raw emotions and valid/non-valid points to say who is rite or wrong,therefore far too sensitive to be discussed on here in my opinion,esp wen you have people suggest the 2 boys be strung up and be left to the bulger familie is DISGUSTING,if you or anyone believes thats way the country shud be run then there no better than any other child killer, they were too young to value human life,theve served the time deemed rite by judges/home office/parole board, let them live in anominity IF there law abiding, if not let them lose it like evry other ADULT criminal. I agree with much of what you have just said, however the idea that we should not discus this subject because of the raw emotions it raises is in my view stupid. The reason I say this is because if these basic animal emotions are not brought into the open and the reasons for them discussed, by the time they do surface they take the form of actions on streets rather than words on computer screens. At th risk of repeating myself, the rule of law and any body of laws grows out of the need of society to protect its self from the actions of criminals, hysterical mobs and vigilante justice. However when the body becomes so corrupted that laws are made for there own sake and the victim has less rights than the criminal then there is no alternative but to revert to vigilante justice and mob rule. In my view we are at that tipping point now and I would much rather see a few amoral shits, who believe that they have the right to do as they will and then be protected from the consequences of their actions, be lynched than see our civilization be destroyed and a decent into another dark age. Just my view, but we as a society are at the same stage as the Roman Empire in the late 3rd century. " My point is were talking about children being murdered, it isnt in MY opinion a topic to be discussed as in-depth as some people have gone in this forum, and lets not forget these people are talking about KILLING children themselves regardless of wot theve done i cant agree a discussion that involves these type of comments is a valid discussion | |||
| |||
