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KKK.
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"Can't believe this shit still goes on!! " Yup | |||
"Can't believe this shit still goes on!! " It's not everywhere. Only inbetween LA and NY. Oh and parts of LA and bits of NY. | |||
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"White power.... Black power..... How about both groups stop being such fuckwits "agreed | |||
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"there are various people doing quite the exact same in this country..posting vile hateful nonsense, and others are inciting it through mass hysteria and misinformation. " MailOnline is still going???? | |||
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"I seen a great youtube comment on a science show that was posted. "That physicist was black wft!" lololol" wtf even lol | |||
"best thing about being a liberalfairyleftie is tolerating those that cant tolerate others.. I only hope their kids eventually see their parents are scum...doubtful of course." My dad is racist and homophobic, i don't see him as anything but i knew he was wrong, stupid and inexperienced as well maybe. | |||
"best thing about being a liberalfairyleftie is tolerating those that cant tolerate others.. I only hope their kids eventually see their parents are scum...doubtful of course. My dad is racist and homophobic, i don't see him as anything but i knew he was wrong, stupid and inexperienced as well maybe." of course there is being all those things..but then there are those who are quite active in the promotion of it, such as the groups above.. | |||
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"best thing about being a liberalfairyleftie is tolerating those that cant tolerate others.. I only hope their kids eventually see their parents are scum...doubtful of course. My dad is racist and homophobic, i don't see him as anything but i knew he was wrong, stupid and inexperienced as well maybe. of course there is being all those things..but then there are those who are quite active in the promotion of it, such as the groups above.." i didn't watch the programme, but have an idea what you mean. wouldn't be surprised if the kids do know they're parents are wrong, they're just stuck with them coz being a racist isn't being an abusive parent yet, and i really wouldn't be surpised if i a lot of these parents treat their kids as objects and not children. some of them will side with the parent and believe they're superior also and yeah that is sad. | |||
"Now I hope you all understand why I post on a UK forum. Ever since Obama has become president, it seems the USA has become very racist and I'm not just talking about the south "UKIP gave permission for all the racists in this country to come out of hiding too. i've used US forums and many of the racists are sexist also and they use crap statistics to back themselves up, and add a fair amount of confirmation bias too. it's pitiful to watch and the amount of nonsense that comes out of them is dire. | |||
"Now I hope you all understand why I post on a UK forum. Ever since Obama has become president, it seems the USA has become very racist and I'm not just talking about the south
UKIP gave permission for all the racists in this country to come out of hiding too.
i've used US forums and many of the racists are sexist also and they use crap statistics to back themselves up, and add a fair amount of confirmation bias too. it's pitiful to watch and the amount of nonsense that comes out of them is dire."My family over in the UK has been telling me about the England first people. I was shocked | |||
"Now I hope you all understand why I post on a UK forum. Ever since Obama has become president, it seems the USA has become very racist and I'm not just talking about the south
UKIP gave permission for all the racists in this country to come out of hiding too.
i've used US forums and many of the racists are sexist also and they use crap statistics to back themselves up, and add a fair amount of confirmation bias too. it's pitiful to watch and the amount of nonsense that comes out of them is dire.
My family over in the UK has been telling me about the England first people. I was shocked "Groups like that have always been about, usually people aren't so blatant about their racism because it's offensive. This is why i prefer people to be open, then you can see who people really are. Even my mum nearly voted BNP to get out of europe, i had to tell her what else they stood for and she was shocked. Sad, but most of these people have rubbish lives and need to take it out on someone, or some fake sense of superiority. | |||
"Now I hope you all understand why I post on a UK forum. Ever since Obama has become president, it seems the USA has become very racist and I'm not just talking about the south
UKIP gave permission for all the racists in this country to come out of hiding too.
i've used US forums and many of the racists are sexist also and they use crap statistics to back themselves up, and add a fair amount of confirmation bias too. it's pitiful to watch and the amount of nonsense that comes out of them is dire."I think the amount of nonsense in what you just posted is pretty dire really. So you think 4 million people who voted ukip at the general election are racist then? Care to explain why you think wanting to leave the EU makes someone a racist? | |||
"Now I hope you all understand why I post on a UK forum. Ever since Obama has become president, it seems the USA has become very racist and I'm not just talking about the south
UKIP gave permission for all the racists in this country to come out of hiding too.
i've used US forums and many of the racists are sexist also and they use crap statistics to back themselves up, and add a fair amount of confirmation bias too. it's pitiful to watch and the amount of nonsense that comes out of them is dire.
I think the amount of nonsense in what you just posted is pretty dire really. So you think 4 million people who voted ukip at the general election are racist then?
Care to explain why you think wanting to leave the EU makes someone a racist? "I didn't say that, read it again. | |||
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"Program on BBC 1 now. Quite disturbing!!" Yup them Kardashians are quite annoying Kim and Khloe Kardashian should be banned from tv | |||
"And, for clarification, i do think the party itself is racist. Just off the way they say things, same for the tories. I actually meant that a racist party, that uses words to promote racism (which they might only be doing this deflect blame from other things, but they know what they're doing will also cause racism unless they are actually ididts), meant that racists felt safe to come out and speak up." Please explain how the party is racist. | |||
"And, for clarification, i do think the party itself is racist. Just off the way they say things, same for the tories. I actually meant that a racist party, that uses words to promote racism (which they might only be doing this deflect blame from other things, but they know what they're doing will also cause racism unless they are actually ididts), meant that racists felt safe to come out and speak up. Please explain how the party is racist." By the way they word things and imply things. I feel most parties look down on anyone who isn't the elite anyway. | |||
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"And, for clarification, i do think the party itself is racist. Just off the way they say things, same for the tories. I actually meant that a racist party, that uses words to promote racism (which they might only be doing this deflect blame from other things, but they know what they're doing will also cause racism unless they are actually ididts), meant that racists felt safe to come out and speak up. Please explain how the party is racist. By the way they word things and imply things. I feel most parties look down on anyone who isn't the elite anyway." Examples please. And have you actually read UKIPs membership criteria? Or their policies? Or what they actually say about immigration? | |||
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"What the hell is a Cracker???" Are you actually asking or joking? | |||
"And, for clarification, i do think the party itself is racist. Just off the way they say things, same for the tories. I actually meant that a racist party, that uses words to promote racism (which they might only be doing this deflect blame from other things, but they know what they're doing will also cause racism unless they are actually ididts), meant that racists felt safe to come out and speak up. Please explain how the party is racist. By the way they word things and imply things. I feel most parties look down on anyone who isn't the elite anyway. Examples please. And have you actually read UKIPs membership criteria? Or their policies? Or what they actually say about immigration? " Are you kidding? It is made up of former members of the Conservatives who were deemed to be 'too far right' for the tories. Their policies are nonsense and their members and 90% of their supporters are brainless bigots. | |||
"Now I hope you all understand why I post on a UK forum. Ever since Obama has become president, it seems the USA has become very racist and I'm not just talking about the south
UKIP gave permission for all the racists in this country to come out of hiding too.
i've used US forums and many of the racists are sexist also and they use crap statistics to back themselves up, and add a fair amount of confirmation bias too. it's pitiful to watch and the amount of nonsense that comes out of them is dire.
I think the amount of nonsense in what you just posted is pretty dire really. So you think 4 million people who voted ukip at the general election are racist then?
Care to explain why you think wanting to leave the EU makes someone a racist? "That's not the reason they're racist - that's just another clear indication that they're thick. | |||
"What the hell is a Cracker??? Are you actually asking or joking?" Asking? | |||
"What the hell is a Cracker??? Are you actually asking or joking? Asking?" In America, it is a slang/derogatory word for a white person. Usually used by black people. Given the nature of this thread, I assume this is the definition you're after.
-Courtney | |||
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"And, for clarification, i do think the party itself is racist. Just off the way they say things, same for the tories. I actually meant that a racist party, that uses words to promote racism (which they might only be doing this deflect blame from other things, but they know what they're doing will also cause racism unless they are actually ididts), meant that racists felt safe to come out and speak up. Please explain how the party is racist. By the way they word things and imply things. I feel most parties look down on anyone who isn't the elite anyway. Examples please. And have you actually read UKIPs membership criteria? Or their policies? Or what they actually say about immigration? Are you kidding? It is made up of former members of the Conservatives who were deemed to be 'too far right' for the tories. Their policies are nonsense and their members and 90% of their supporters are brainless bigots. " Point 1. 90% of supporters are brainless bigots..... Thats a pretty wild "generalisaton" you are making there, considering 4 million people voted UKIP at the general election. Does the term "tarring all with the same brush" also sound familiar? If someone talks about muslims on a thread with regard to isis or extremism, time and time again you hear people say you can't make "generalisations" like that, or you can't tar them all with the same brush. The same applies here. The hypocrisy on display here really is astonishing. Point 2. The party is made up of former conservatives....simply not true. Point 3. Their policies are nonsense....UKIP were the only party at the general election to have a fully costed and independently reviewed and fully verified manifesto. Something which Lib/Lab/Con all failed to do. Also notice you did'nt post any examples of ones you thought were nonsense either. | |||
"Now I hope you all understand why I post on a UK forum. Ever since Obama has become president, it seems the USA has become very racist and I'm not just talking about the south
UKIP gave permission for all the racists in this country to come out of hiding too.
i've used US forums and many of the racists are sexist also and they use crap statistics to back themselves up, and add a fair amount of confirmation bias too. it's pitiful to watch and the amount of nonsense that comes out of them is dire.
I think the amount of nonsense in what you just posted is pretty dire really. So you think 4 million people who voted ukip at the general election are racist then?
Care to explain why you think wanting to leave the EU makes someone a racist?
That's not the reason they're racist - that's just another clear indication that they're thick. "Those on the other side of the argument could say that wanting to stay in the EU makes them thick. Leaving the EU is one of the main reasons (in many cases the only reason) why people vote UKIP, thanks for clarifying it has nothing to do with racism anyway. | |||
"Now I hope you all understand why I post on a UK forum. Ever since Obama has become president, it seems the USA has become very racist and I'm not just talking about the south
UKIP gave permission for all the racists in this country to come out of hiding too.
i've used US forums and many of the racists are sexist also and they use crap statistics to back themselves up, and add a fair amount of confirmation bias too. it's pitiful to watch and the amount of nonsense that comes out of them is dire.
I think the amount of nonsense in what you just posted is pretty dire really. So you think 4 million people who voted ukip at the general election are racist then?
Care to explain why you think wanting to leave the EU makes someone a racist?
That's not the reason they're racist - that's just another clear indication that they're thick.
Those on the other side of the argument could say that wanting to stay in the EU makes them thick. Leaving the EU is one of the main reasons (in many cases the only reason) why people vote UKIP, thanks for clarifying it has nothing to do with racism anyway. "I didn't say it has nothing to do with racism - too many people are trying to pass off their racism as 'patriotism', let's be honest - most of the people who want to leave the EU know very little about what it would actually mean, and are more about the knuckledragger's mantra of immigrants "coming over here and taking our jobs and benefits" rather than having the mental capacity of forming a valid reason for their beliefs. Exiting the EU would be disasterous for the economy, the population deficit, and for european laws which actually go a long way to protect human and civil rights and liberties. | |||
"Now I hope you all understand why I post on a UK forum. Ever since Obama has become president, it seems the USA has become very racist and I'm not just talking about the south
UKIP gave permission for all the racists in this country to come out of hiding too.
i've used US forums and many of the racists are sexist also and they use crap statistics to back themselves up, and add a fair amount of confirmation bias too. it's pitiful to watch and the amount of nonsense that comes out of them is dire.
I think the amount of nonsense in what you just posted is pretty dire really. So you think 4 million people who voted ukip at the general election are racist then?
Care to explain why you think wanting to leave the EU makes someone a racist?
That's not the reason they're racist - that's just another clear indication that they're thick.
Those on the other side of the argument could say that wanting to stay in the EU makes them thick. Leaving the EU is one of the main reasons (in many cases the only reason) why people vote UKIP, thanks for clarifying it has nothing to do with racism anyway.
I didn't say it has nothing to do with racism - too many people are trying to pass off their racism as 'patriotism', let's be honest - most of the people who want to leave the EU know very little about what it would actually mean, and are more about the knuckledragger's mantra of immigrants "coming over here and taking our jobs and benefits" rather than having the mental capacity of forming a valid reason for their beliefs.
Exiting the EU would be disasterous for the economy, the population deficit, and for european laws which actually go a long way to protect human and civil rights and liberties.
"Disasterous for the economy, clearly the chairman of Lloyds bank does'nt think so. He said just the other day and i quote "there are no compelling economic arguments for Britain to stay in the EU". The chairman of CAT/FINNING company also thinks there is no case for britain to stay in the EU, and it would "make no difference to the company if we were in or out" along with a whole host of other business leaders in Britain (just check out the Leave.EU website and the betteroffout.net website). Even Jean Claude Juncker himself said the other day and i quote "Britain does'nt need the EU, but the EU needs Britain". It may help in future if you actually look up some facts before you post. | |||
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"And, for clarification, i do think the party itself is racist. Just off the way they say things, same for the tories. I actually meant that a racist party, that uses words to promote racism (which they might only be doing this deflect blame from other things, but they know what they're doing will also cause racism unless they are actually ididts), meant that racists felt safe to come out and speak up. Please explain how the party is racist. By the way they word things and imply things. I feel most parties look down on anyone who isn't the elite anyway. Examples please. And have you actually read UKIPs membership criteria? Or their policies? Or what they actually say about immigration? Are you kidding? It is made up of former members of the Conservatives who were deemed to be 'too far right' for the tories. Their policies are nonsense and their members and 90% of their supporters are brainless bigots. " on refugees from Syria.. Farage said: "I think refugees are a very different thing to economic migration and I think this country should honour the 1951 declaration on refugee status that was agreed. "It was agreed with the UN and even through the European Court, which sadly has changed its role. "But the original ideas of defining what a refugee is were good ones and I think, actually, there is a responsibility on all of us in the free West to try and help some of those (Millions of)people fleeing Syria, literally in fear of their lives." He said it was time for "a proper debate" about "the difference between a refugee - who fears for his or her life - or somebody moving simply for economic benefit". "We should accept 400 to 500." On Immigration.. UKIP's policy is to stop free movement from within the EU, and to have a skills based points system - so anyone, from anywhere, of any colour, has an equal opportunity to come to live and work in Britain. On racism... UKIP are the only party that have a written rule within their membership criteria that bans anyone from joining who is racist. No other party asks for people to confirm their views on race when applying for membership. UKIP are made up of far right tories and people who vote for them are brainless bigots? You do realise that they took votes in equal proportions from the tories and labour in the general election don't you? So, by your measure, labour voters who 'defected' to UKIP are brainless bigots? And, as has been said before, UKIP were the only party in the election to have had their and festivals costings and budget independently reviewed and ratified as balanced. But,i asked you some reasonable questions, and you didn't even try to answer a single one of them.... so who was it you were calling brainless? | |||
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"One has to ask the question, therefore - if you accept that Ukip are not a racist party per se (and most reasonable people would not), why on earth do they attract so many racists? Please do look at social media, the comments sections from any online newspaper, various documentaries and investigations into the membership. One only needs eyes and a sense of balance to see it. Of course, most racists (and in this the KKK are at least honest) cannot or will not see that they are one." What makes you say most reasonable people think UKIP are a racist party? In the GE, 6% of their candidates were black and ethnic. I do look at social media, you can read comments sections from newspapers on the same day about the same subject having completely differing views (so which one is right? For example Jeremy Corbyn is either a terrorist loving communist, or the man of the people come to lead us into a new dawn), documentaries can be skewed to a particular point of view (look at benefits Street, or the hatchet job that Panorama did on the Queen, for which they had to apologise)... so you are calling the 4 million that item for UKIP racist? I have many friends that could be described as black or ethnic (although to me they are just people), and probably about half of them voted for UKIP in the GE... are you saying they're racist? And for your information, UKIP are against mass, uncontrolled immigration... particularly from low skilled workers from within the EU... and thus is what people, papers and documentaries cite as racism. Which, of course, it isn't. UKIP's policy on immigration is quite clear.. if you have the skills that we need, it doesn't matter what colour you are, you are welcome. If you don't have the skills that we need, it doesn't matter what colour you are, you're not welcome. What is racist about that? | |||
"And, for clarification, i do think the party itself is racist. Just off the way they say things, same for the tories. I actually meant that a racist party, that uses words to promote racism (which they might only be doing this deflect blame from other things, but they know what they're doing will also cause racism unless they are actually ididts), meant that racists felt safe to come out and speak up. Please explain how the party is racist. By the way they word things and imply things. I feel most parties look down on anyone who isn't the elite anyway. Examples please. And have you actually read UKIPs membership criteria? Or their policies? Or what they actually say about immigration? " There's already a topic running about how politicians lie, their policies can be lies. i don't need to read anything, i need to look at what they're actually doing and what they actually say. Oh, and the EU is looking into tax dodging businesses right now, Starbucks has to pay 22 million in taxes that they dodged, maybe we found one of the real reason(s) why certain parties want out the EU? I'm pretty sure any government would be able to change laws so that your average worked would lose rights as well. | |||
"And, for clarification, i do think the party itself is racist. Just off the way they say things, same for the tories. I actually meant that a racist party, that uses words to promote racism (which they might only be doing this deflect blame from other things, but they know what they're doing will also cause racism unless they are actually ididts), meant that racists felt safe to come out and speak up. Please explain how the party is racist. By the way they word things and imply things. I feel most parties look down on anyone who isn't the elite anyway. Examples please. And have you actually read UKIPs membership criteria? Or their policies? Or what they actually say about immigration? There's already a topic running about how politicians lie, their policies can be lies. i don't need to read anything, i need to look at what they're actually doing and what they actually say. Oh, and the EU is looking into tax dodging businesses right now, Starbucks has to pay 22 million in taxes that they dodged, maybe we found one of the real reason(s) why certain parties want out the EU? I'm pretty sure any government would be able to change laws so that your average worked would lose rights as well." Wow! You should seriously think about going into politics! I asked you to explain and give examples of UKIP's racist policies, and your response is about the EU and Starbucks! I take it that you can't answer with any specific, substantiated examples of UKIP's policies being racist then. But aside from that, I take it that as 'all politicians lie' about their policies then, per se, all political parties are racist? | |||
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"And, for clarification, i do think the party itself is racist. Just off the way they say things, same for the tories. I actually meant that a racist party, that uses words to promote racism (which they might only be doing this deflect blame from other things, but they know what they're doing will also cause racism unless they are actually ididts), meant that racists felt safe to come out and speak up. Please explain how the party is racist. By the way they word things and imply things. I feel most parties look down on anyone who isn't the elite anyway. Examples please. And have you actually read UKIPs membership criteria? Or their policies? Or what they actually say about immigration? There's already a topic running about how politicians lie, their policies can be lies. i don't need to read anything, i need to look at what they're actually doing and what they actually say. Oh, and the EU is looking into tax dodging businesses right now, Starbucks has to pay 22 million in taxes that they dodged, maybe we found one of the real reason(s) why certain parties want out the EU? I'm pretty sure any government would be able to change laws so that your average worked would lose rights as well." And it was Starbucks and Fiat... it was to do with the clarification between State Aid and Taxation in Holland and Luxembourg. The last time I went to school neither Holland nor Luxembourg were part of Great Britain, nor came under GB tax jurisdiction... maybe you know something I don't. So why on earth would anyone use this to campaign on leaving the EU? And BTW, both Starbucks and Fiat are appealing against the decision, and both Holland and Luxembourg disagree with the decision and its basis. | |||
"Wow! You should seriously think about going into politics! I asked you to explain and give examples of UKIP's racist policies, and your response is about the EU and Starbucks!" Nope i said: "There's already a topic running about how politicians lie, their policies can be lies. i don't need to read anything, i need to look at what they're actually doing and what they actually say." But congrats on using a fallacy during debate, i'm sure you'd make a good politician yourself. And previously i said UKip encourage people to be open about their own racism. "I take it that you can't answer with any specific, substantiated examples of UKIP's policies being racist then. " Doesn't matter if i can or not. You don't use lies or heresay to back up your point, you use truths. "But aside from that, I take it that as 'all politicians lie' about their policies then, per se, all political parties are racist?" Pretty much they do, or at least withhold truths. Not on everything, but on many important things yes. And they word things in a way where they can 'lie' and leave people satisfied with the answer for a while, but haven't lied exactly because of the wording. They avoid answering certain questions too, by twisting things to something else. They use many techniques used in brain washing and manipulation, just repeating a lie until it becomes truth is another one. They deflect blame onto other things instead of fixing what they caused, because it benefits them. I do think there will always be problems when other cultures come into contact with each other, initially, but they aren't as big of a threat as UKip make out. I do actually like kips policy on encouraging small businesses to thrive and believe this would help with employment, but would they carry this out? Idk, am very skeptical, as i am with all major parties. All the rest of their policies i'm skeptical of, as all parties promise these things then go back on them. Some of them are fucked up, and unnecessary if you know how things actually are now and don't believe in popular myths that are there to promote hate to types of people. For example: granting custody of children to both parents, encourages people to think the courts and custody is biased towards giving females an advantage which is a sexist lie, the courts can already give custody to any parent and are encouraged to do what benefits the children and not the female parent. Or: Workers should be allowed to employ British workers and not be forced to employ foreign ones, a racist lie to think people are taking our jerbs, employers can only (legally) employ people with residency here anyway, if they got that residency via our government then they are classed as british already and paying taxes to britain. | |||
"Now I hope you all understand why I post on a UK forum. Ever since Obama has become president, it seems the USA has become very racist and I'm not just talking about the south "If that's true then it's very sad! I was delighted when Obama was elected as I assumed that it meant the U.S. Had finally accepted racial equality and tolerance!!  | |||
"And it was Starbucks and Fiat... it was to do with the clarification between State Aid and Taxation in Holland and Luxembourg. The last time I went to school neither Holland nor Luxembourg were part of Great Britain, nor came under GB tax jurisdiction... maybe you know something I don't. So why on earth would anyone use this to campaign on leaving the EU? And BTW, both Starbucks and Fiat are appealing against the decision, and both Holland and Luxembourg disagree with the decision and its basis." We can use the same laws though, if our government gave a shit they would do this instead of using it (and our taxes) to fight rules made up under the EU that everyone in the Eu has to cohere to (capped bonuses). Anyone political who wants out of the EU is so that they don't have to adhere to EU rules, or more likely taxes, and it benefits them to do that. They are all liars, they are all against the poor and think they're here to be used and are a burden, but yet they don't come up with any solution that makes these people not a burden...well political correctness was doing well with this actually but we went back to right-wing politics so that's going tits up. We all know the initials PC are looked down on by a good majority of people and used as derogatory term, well why are they? They were helping people become a part of things they had previously been left out of, and made them more a part of being classed as human. | |||
"And, for clarification, i do think the party itself is racist. Just off the way they say things, same for the tories. I actually meant that a racist party, that uses words to promote racism (which they might only be doing this deflect blame from other things, but they know what they're doing will also cause racism unless they are actually ididts), meant that racists felt safe to come out and speak up. Please explain how the party is racist. By the way they word things and imply things. I feel most parties look down on anyone who isn't the elite anyway. Examples please. And have you actually read UKIPs membership criteria? Or their policies? Or what they actually say about immigration? There's already a topic running about how politicians lie, their policies can be lies. i don't need to read anything, i need to look at what they're actually doing and what they actually say. Oh, and the EU is looking into tax dodging businesses right now, Starbucks has to pay 22 million in taxes that they dodged, maybe we found one of the real reason(s) why certain parties want out the EU? I'm pretty sure any government would be able to change laws so that your average worked would lose rights as well." If you are going to start lecturing people on tax avoidance/evasion perhaps a good place to start would be at the heart of the EU and it's president Mr Jean Claude Juncker. His history on this subject is very shady indeed, when he was president of Luxembourg and offering tax deals to major companies in facilitating tax avoidance. | |||
"And, for clarification, i do think the party itself is racist. Just off the way they say things, same for the tories. I actually meant that a racist party, that uses words to promote racism (which they might only be doing this deflect blame from other things, but they know what they're doing will also cause racism unless they are actually ididts), meant that racists felt safe to come out and speak up. Please explain how the party is racist. By the way they word things and imply things. I feel most parties look down on anyone who isn't the elite anyway. Examples please. And have you actually read UKIPs membership criteria? Or their policies? Or what they actually say about immigration? There's already a topic running about how politicians lie, their policies can be lies. i don't need to read anything, i need to look at what they're actually doing and what they actually say. Oh, and the EU is looking into tax dodging businesses right now, Starbucks has to pay 22 million in taxes that they dodged, maybe we found one of the real reason(s) why certain parties want out the EU? I'm pretty sure any government would be able to change laws so that your average worked would lose rights as well. If you are going to start lecturing people on tax avoidance/evasion perhaps a good place to start would be at the heart of the EU and it's president Mr Jean Claude Juncker. His history on this subject is very shady indeed, when he was president of Luxembourg and offering tax deals to major companies in facilitating tax avoidance. " Yeah maybe. Don't know why i think any of these things are good for us. Sometimes i even believe the UN will sort out human rights violations but they never do either. All of them are shit and they got to where they are today by being shit. Don't think i'm gonna even bother discussing politics, unless it's ways to get rid of all of it altogether. | |||
"One has to ask the question, therefore - if you accept that Ukip are not a racist party per se (and most reasonable people would not), why on earth do they attract so many racists? Please do look at social media, the comments sections from any online newspaper, various documentaries and investigations into the membership. One only needs eyes and a sense of balance to see it. Of course, most racists (and in this the KKK are at least honest) cannot or will not see that they are one. What makes you say most reasonable people think UKIP are a racist party? In the GE, 6% of their candidates were black and ethnic. I do look at social media, you can read comments sections from newspapers on the same day about the same subject having completely differing views (so which one is right? For example Jeremy Corbyn is either a terrorist loving communist, or the man of the people come to lead us into a new dawn), documentaries can be skewed to a particular point of view (look at benefits Street, or the hatchet job that Panorama did on the Queen, for which they had to apologise)... so you are calling the 4 million that item for UKIP racist? I have many friends that could be described as black or ethnic (although to me they are just people), and probably about half of them voted for UKIP in the GE... are you saying they're racist? And for your information, UKIP are against mass, uncontrolled immigration... particularly from low skilled workers from within the EU... and thus is what people, papers and documentaries cite as racism. Which, of course, it isn't. UKIP's policy on immigration is quite clear.. if you have the skills that we need, it doesn't matter what colour you are, you are welcome. If you don't have the skills that we need, it doesn't matter what colour you are, you're not welcome. What is racist about that? "  what I do find amusing is how quickly the lefty socialists will jump to the the defence of people on benefits, in particular when it comes to programmes like benefits street saying it's all "establishment propaganda" and benefits street is not representative of all people on benefits. Then a documentary about UKIP comes along and suddenly the same people say it's all factual and good solid journalism, lol. UKIP are a threat to the establishment, so maybe people should consider these documentaries could be "establishment propaganda" and not representative of all UKIP supporters and voters. | |||
"One has to ask the question, therefore - if you accept that Ukip are not a racist party per se (and most reasonable people would not), why on earth do they attract so many racists? Please do look at social media, the comments sections from any online newspaper, various documentaries and investigations into the membership. One only needs eyes and a sense of balance to see it. Of course, most racists (and in this the KKK are at least honest) cannot or will not see that they are one. What makes you say most reasonable people think UKIP are a racist party? In the GE, 6% of their candidates were black and ethnic. I do look at social media, you can read comments sections from newspapers on the same day about the same subject having completely differing views (so which one is right? For example Jeremy Corbyn is either a terrorist loving communist, or the man of the people come to lead us into a new dawn), documentaries can be skewed to a particular point of view (look at benefits Street, or the hatchet job that Panorama did on the Queen, for which they had to apologise)... so you are calling the 4 million that item for UKIP racist? I have many friends that could be described as black or ethnic (although to me they are just people), and probably about half of them voted for UKIP in the GE... are you saying they're racist? And for your information, UKIP are against mass, uncontrolled immigration... particularly from low skilled workers from within the EU... and thus is what people, papers and documentaries cite as racism. Which, of course, it isn't. UKIP's policy on immigration is quite clear.. if you have the skills that we need, it doesn't matter what colour you are, you are welcome. If you don't have the skills that we need, it doesn't matter what colour you are, you're not welcome. What is racist about that? what I do find amusing is how quickly the lefty socialists will jump to the the defence of people on benefits, in particular when it comes to programmes like benefits street saying it's all "establishment propaganda" and benefits street is not representative of all people on benefits. Then a documentary about UKIP comes along and suddenly the same people say it's all factual and good solid journalism, lol. UKIP are a threat to the establishment, so maybe people should consider these documentaries could be "establishment propaganda" and not representative of all UKIP supporters and voters. "I've never said that either. In fact i've said there are people like these families on benefits. Just they're not a particularly good representative of those dependent on the welfare system and yeah the media represents things how it wants to present them. And there's benefit street topic on here i commented on and said i like the people in the programme anyway, and i could see them as human. Most other people were actually slagging them off, because it's always been ok to do that publicly. I also am having stuff i've said taken out of context, i said UKips allowed racists to come and speak out, they made it so people feel ok to be racist publicly. Which i also said is fine with me coz i prefer honesty. I don't like racists, i don't like any bigots opinions of themselves, And that is what these people are, they are just saying they're better than anyone else and everyone else is scum. Might use the word bigots from now on coz racists are often bigots to everyone i noticed. And the elitists are just bigots with money. UKip are not for the british people, they're for themselves and people like themselves, and trust me that isn't people like you or me. Same for the conservatives, they aren't for hard working families no matter how much they spout that. Fuck knows who Labour represent now either. | |||
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"One has to ask the question, therefore - if you accept that Ukip are not a racist party per se (and most reasonable people would not), why on earth do they attract so many racists? Please do look at social media, the comments sections from any online newspaper, various documentaries and investigations into the membership. One only needs eyes and a sense of balance to see it. Of course, most racists (and in this the KKK are at least honest) cannot or will not see that they are one. What makes you say most reasonable people think UKIP are a racist party? In the GE, 6% of their candidates were black and ethnic. I do look at social media, you can read comments sections from newspapers on the same day about the same subject having completely differing views (so which one is right? For example Jeremy Corbyn is either a terrorist loving communist, or the man of the people come to lead us into a new dawn), documentaries can be skewed to a particular point of view (look at benefits Street, or the hatchet job that Panorama did on the Queen, for which they had to apologise)... so you are calling the 4 million that item for UKIP racist? I have many friends that could be described as black or ethnic (although to me they are just people), and probably about half of them voted for UKIP in the GE... are you saying they're racist? And for your information, UKIP are against mass, uncontrolled immigration... particularly from low skilled workers from within the EU... and thus is what people, papers and documentaries cite as racism. Which, of course, it isn't. UKIP's policy on immigration is quite clear.. if you have the skills that we need, it doesn't matter what colour you are, you are welcome. If you don't have the skills that we need, it doesn't matter what colour you are, you're not welcome. What is racist about that? what I do find amusing is how quickly the lefty socialists will jump to the the defence of people on benefits, in particular when it comes to programmes like benefits street saying it's all "establishment propaganda" and benefits street is not representative of all people on benefits. Then a documentary about UKIP comes along and suddenly the same people say it's all factual and good solid journalism, lol. UKIP are a threat to the establishment, so maybe people should consider these documentaries could be "establishment propaganda" and not representative of all UKIP supporters and voters. "I think that the reason people think UKIP attract racists and nutters is nothing to do with biased documentries and everything to do with the action of some (and please note I said Some not all) of their members. | |||
"And it was Starbucks and Fiat... it was to do with the clarification between State Aid and Taxation in Holland and Luxembourg. The last time I went to school neither Holland nor Luxembourg were part of Great Britain, nor came under GB tax jurisdiction... maybe you know something I don't. So why on earth would anyone use this to campaign on leaving the EU? And BTW, both Starbucks and Fiat are appealing against the decision, and both Holland and Luxembourg disagree with the decision and its basis. We can use the same laws though, if our government gave a shit they would do this instead of using it (and our taxes) to fight rules made up under the EU that everyone in the Eu has to cohere to (capped bonuses). Anyone political who wants out of the EU is so that they don't have to adhere to EU rules, or more likely taxes, and it benefits them to do that. They are all liars, they are all against the poor and think they're here to be used and are a burden, but yet they don't come up with any solution that makes these people not a burden...well political correctness was doing well with this actually but we went back to right-wing politics so that's going tits up. We all know the initials PC are looked down on by a good majority of people and used as derogatory term, well why are they? They were helping people become a part of things they had previously been left out of, and made them more a part of being classed as human." It is the EU using anti-trade laws to legislate against Starbucks and Fiat.. It has nothing to do with British laws. And in fact, you'll find that Starbucks paid their taxes on line with UK tax legislation.. it's called tax avoidance, not tax evasion. And every working person in the country legally avoids paying tax on the first £11K of earnings.. it's called a tax allowance.. should this piece of tax legislation and ' legalised tax evasion' be abolished as well? So anyone who wants out of the EU wants out so that they don't have to adhere to EU rules because politicians are all liars and against the poor? You do realise that the EU is a far bigger and much more cumbersome political institution than our government, don't you? | |||
"They all hide behind something other than they are. I mean were the Nazis really socialists? They called themselves that and i really, unbelievably, have seen people trying to justify the Nazis were a socialist party. They didn't even respect everyone's right to own their own life." Maybe a more interesting question would be are or were the Communists sodalists? While they talked of equality they killed millions, many just because of their race. And how about "British jobs for British workers"? If that's not playing the racist / xenophobic card just for votes, I really don't know what is. Racism is not the preserve of people who have a right of centre view, it spreads right across the political spectrum. Maybe if we addressed peoples legitimate concerns rather than just calling everyone and anyone who raises any negative issues with regard to migration as racist, we could start to tackle the issue properly. | |||
"And it was Starbucks and Fiat... it was to do with the clarification between State Aid and Taxation in Holland and Luxembourg. The last time I went to school neither Holland nor Luxembourg were part of Great Britain, nor came under GB tax jurisdiction... maybe you know something I don't. So why on earth would anyone use this to campaign on leaving the EU? And BTW, both Starbucks and Fiat are appealing against the decision, and both Holland and Luxembourg disagree with the decision and its basis. We can use the same laws though, if our government gave a shit they would do this instead of using it (and our taxes) to fight rules made up under the EU that everyone in the Eu has to cohere to (capped bonuses). Anyone political who wants out of the EU is so that they don't have to adhere to EU rules, or more likely taxes, and it benefits them to do that. They are all liars, they are all against the poor and think they're here to be used and are a burden, but yet they don't come up with any solution that makes these people not a burden...well political correctness was doing well with this actually but we went back to right-wing politics so that's going tits up. We all know the initials PC are looked down on by a good majority of people and used as derogatory term, well why are they? They were helping people become a part of things they had previously been left out of, and made them more a part of being classed as human. It is the EU using anti-trade laws to legislate against Starbucks and Fiat.. It has nothing to do with British laws. And in fact, you'll find that Starbucks paid their taxes on line with UK tax legislation.. it's called tax avoidance, not tax evasion. And every working person in the country legally avoids paying tax on the first £11K of earnings.. it's called a tax allowance.. should this piece of tax legislation and ' legalised tax evasion' be abolished as well? So anyone who wants out of the EU wants out so that they don't have to adhere to EU rules because politicians are all liars and against the poor? You do realise that the EU is a far bigger and much more cumbersome political institution than our government, don't you? " Yeah i did realise after Uncrackens reply. | |||
"They all hide behind something other than they are. I mean were the Nazis really socialists? They called themselves that and i really, unbelievably, have seen people trying to justify the Nazis were a socialist party. They didn't even respect everyone's right to own their own life. Maybe a more interesting question would be are or were the Communists sodalists? While they talked of equality they killed millions, many just because of their race. And how about "British jobs for British workers"? If that's not playing the racist / xenophobic card just for votes, I really don't know what is. Racism is not the preserve of people who have a right of centre view, it spreads right across the political spectrum. Maybe if we addressed peoples legitimate concerns rather than just calling everyone and anyone who raises any negative issues with regard to migration as racist, we could start to tackle the issue properly." Yes i know about the mass murder done under Lenin, and even more done under Mao. I'm not for any type of politics, i don't even agree with how voting works and have always said all people should be represented under politics. British jobs for british workers is the same thing as what Farage was trying to say, conveniently forgetting to mention that only British people can work here, those from abroad have to be accepted as British. Well Eu workers as well but they have restrictions. No my point is politicians are pretty much liars, they use words to imply what they are, what they're doing and what is really going on. And UKip did make it so that people felt comfortable enough to act racist in public, before they weren't so much. I'd love them to stop encouraging that by saying they're not racist (which they already do) then also stop acting like they are with how they say stuff and what they say. It's not just a UKip thing where politics makes it so we're having bullshit fed into our heads and people are made ignorant of the facts, i know this. | |||
"And it was Starbucks and Fiat... it was to do with the clarification between State Aid and Taxation in Holland and Luxembourg. The last time I went to school neither Holland nor Luxembourg were part of Great Britain, nor came under GB tax jurisdiction... maybe you know something I don't. So why on earth would anyone use this to campaign on leaving the EU? And BTW, both Starbucks and Fiat are appealing against the decision, and both Holland and Luxembourg disagree with the decision and its basis. We can use the same laws though, if our government gave a shit they would do this instead of using it (and our taxes) to fight rules made up under the EU that everyone in the Eu has to cohere to (capped bonuses). Anyone political who wants out of the EU is so that they don't have to adhere to EU rules, or more likely taxes, and it benefits them to do that. They are all liars, they are all against the poor and think they're here to be used and are a burden, but yet they don't come up with any solution that makes these people not a burden...well political correctness was doing well with this actually but we went back to right-wing politics so that's going tits up. We all know the initials PC are looked down on by a good majority of people and used as derogatory term, well why are they? They were helping people become a part of things they had previously been left out of, and made them more a part of being classed as human. It is the EU using anti-trade laws to legislate against Starbucks and Fiat.. It has nothing to do with British laws. And in fact, you'll find that Starbucks paid their taxes on line with UK tax legislation.. it's called tax avoidance, not tax evasion. And every working person in the country legally avoids paying tax on the first £11K of earnings.. it's called a tax allowance.. should this piece of tax legislation and ' legalised tax evasion' be abolished as well? So anyone who wants out of the EU wants out so that they don't have to adhere to EU rules because politicians are all liars and against the poor? You do realise that the EU is a far bigger and much more cumbersome political institution than our government, don't you? Yeah i did realise after Uncrackens reply." Lol, I thought you called him undercrackers for a moment there. | |||
"Yeah i did realise after Uncrackens reply. Lol, I thought you called him undercrackers for a moment there. "Lol, knew i'd got the name wrong...am terrible with names. Sorry OP. | |||
"They all hide behind something other than they are. I mean were the Nazis really socialists? They called themselves that and i really, unbelievably, have seen people trying to justify the Nazis were a socialist party. They didn't even respect everyone's right to own their own life. Maybe a more interesting question would be are or were the Communists sodalists? While they talked of equality they killed millions, many just because of their race. And how about "British jobs for British workers"? If that's not playing the racist / xenophobic card just for votes, I really don't know what is. Racism is not the preserve of people who have a right of centre view, it spreads right across the political spectrum. Maybe if we addressed peoples legitimate concerns rather than just calling everyone and anyone who raises any negative issues with regard to migration as racist, we could start to tackle the issue properly. Yes i know about the mass murder done under Lenin, and even more done under Mao. I'm not for any type of politics, i don't even agree with how voting works and have always said all people should be represented under politics. British jobs for british workers is the same thing as what Farage was trying to say, conveniently forgetting to mention that only British people can work here, those from abroad have to be accepted as British. Well Eu workers as well but they have restrictions. No my point is politicians are pretty much liars, they use words to imply what they are, what they're doing and what is really going on. And UKip did make it so that people felt comfortable enough to act racist in public, before they weren't so much. I'd love them to stop encouraging that by saying they're not racist (which they already do) then also stop acting like they are with how they say stuff and what they say. It's not just a UKip thing where politics makes it so we're having bullshit fed into our heads and people are made ignorant of the facts, i know this." Just for the record, it was Gordon Brown and the Labour party who used the phrase "British jobs for British workers" long before Nigel Farage and UKIP said it. | |||
"Just for the record, it was Gordon Brown and the Labour party who used the phrase "British jobs for British workers" long before Nigel Farage and UKIP said it." Yeah i know, i saw people putting the posters up all over this town. Don't really care for labour, i support the green party because it acts on a global scale and that's the only way we're going to sort out anything is if we work stuff out globally. And treat everything as equally important, and spend money on things that keep us accustomed to a good quality of life but don't cause harm in the process. This area is deprived but we had a lot of good stuff here eventually, like free parent and child groups (which went a few years ago). Right now the focus is on making money and loads has gone, including many businesses and jobs. Can see why people get pissed off really. | |||
"They all hide behind something other than they are. I mean were the Nazis really socialists? They called themselves that and i really, unbelievably, have seen people trying to justify the Nazis were a socialist party. They didn't even respect everyone's right to own their own life. Maybe a more interesting question would be are or were the Communists sodalists? While they talked of equality they killed millions, many just because of their race. And how about "British jobs for British workers"? If that's not playing the racist / xenophobic card just for votes, I really don't know what is. Racism is not the preserve of people who have a right of centre view, it spreads right across the political spectrum. Maybe if we addressed peoples legitimate concerns rather than just calling everyone and anyone who raises any negative issues with regard to migration as racist, we could start to tackle the issue properly. Yes i know about the mass murder done under Lenin, and even more done under Mao. I'm not for any type of politics, i don't even agree with how voting works and have always said all people should be represented under politics. British jobs for british workers is the same thing as what Farage was trying to say, conveniently forgetting to mention that only British people can work here, those from abroad have to be accepted as British. Well Eu workers as well but they have restrictions. No my point is politicians are pretty much liars, they use words to imply what they are, what they're doing and what is really going on. And UKip did make it so that people felt comfortable enough to act racist in public, before they weren't so much. I'd love them to stop encouraging that by saying they're not racist (which they already do) then also stop acting like they are with how they say stuff and what they say. It's not just a UKip thing where politics makes it so we're having bullshit fed into our heads and people are made ignorant of the facts, i know this. Just for the record, it was Gordon Brown and the Labour party who used the phrase "British jobs for British workers" long before Nigel Farage and UKIP said it." That was my point!! | |||
"Just for the record, it was Gordon Brown and the Labour party who used the phrase "British jobs for British workers" long before Nigel Farage and UKIP said it. Yeah i know, i saw people putting the posters up all over this town. Don't really care for labour, i support the green party because it acts on a global scale and that's the only way we're going to sort out anything is if we work stuff out globally. And treat everything as equally important, and spend money on things that keep us accustomed to a good quality of life but don't cause harm in the process. This area is deprived but we had a lot of good stuff here eventually, like free parent and child groups (which went a few years ago). Right now the focus is on making money and loads has gone, including many businesses and jobs. Can see why people get pissed off really." Except that the Green Party does not have a totally clean sheet either. Many consider it antisemitic particularly in the past when it was 'The Ecology Party'. | |||
"Just for the record, it was Gordon Brown and the Labour party who used the phrase "British jobs for British workers" long before Nigel Farage and UKIP said it. Yeah i know, i saw people putting the posters up all over this town. Don't really care for labour, i support the green party because it acts on a global scale and that's the only way we're going to sort out anything is if we work stuff out globally. And treat everything as equally important, and spend money on things that keep us accustomed to a good quality of life but don't cause harm in the process. This area is deprived but we had a lot of good stuff here eventually, like free parent and child groups (which went a few years ago). Right now the focus is on making money and loads has gone, including many businesses and jobs. Can see why people get pissed off really. Except that the Green Party does not have a totally clean sheet either. Many consider it antisemitic particularly in the past when it was 'The Ecology Party'." How come? Something to do with Israel? | |||
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"Just for the record, it was Gordon Brown and the Labour party who used the phrase "British jobs for British workers" long before Nigel Farage and UKIP said it. Yeah i know, i saw people putting the posters up all over this town. Don't really care for labour, i support the green party because it acts on a global scale and that's the only way we're going to sort out anything is if we work stuff out globally. And treat everything as equally important, and spend money on things that keep us accustomed to a good quality of life but don't cause harm in the process. This area is deprived but we had a lot of good stuff here eventually, like free parent and child groups (which went a few years ago). Right now the focus is on making money and loads has gone, including many businesses and jobs. Can see why people get pissed off really. Except that the Green Party does not have a totally clean sheet either. Many consider it antisemitic particularly in the past when it was 'The Ecology Party'." Didn't dare to support the downtrodden Palestinians did it? | |||
"Just for the record, it was Gordon Brown and the Labour party who used the phrase "British jobs for British workers" long before Nigel Farage and UKIP said it. Yeah i know, i saw people putting the posters up all over this town. Don't really care for labour, i support the green party because it acts on a global scale and that's the only way we're going to sort out anything is if we work stuff out globally. And treat everything as equally important, and spend money on things that keep us accustomed to a good quality of life but don't cause harm in the process. This area is deprived but we had a lot of good stuff here eventually, like free parent and child groups (which went a few years ago). Right now the focus is on making money and loads has gone, including many businesses and jobs. Can see why people get pissed off really. Except that the Green Party does not have a totally clean sheet either. Many consider it antisemitic particularly in the past when it was 'The Ecology Party'. Didn't dare to support the downtrodden Palestinians did it?" As both Arabs and Jews are Semites you can't really call someone antisemitic for supporting one side over the other, can you? | |||
" Labour and the trade unions have a pretty poor historical record when it comes to confronting racism (and sexism to if you look in to it). " care to elaborate on this? | |||
" Labour and the trade unions have a pretty poor historical record when it comes to confronting racism (and sexism to if you look in to it). care to elaborate on this?" Not really. The point being that it's easy to just call someone, or an organisation, racist (probably because, to a greater or lesser extent, most are) rather than actually engage in the real issues. Go google the information yourself if you want to find out. | |||
" Labour and the trade unions have a pretty poor historical record when it comes to confronting racism (and sexism to if you look in to it). care to elaborate on this? Not really. The point being that it's easy to just call someone, or an organisation, racist (probably because, to a greater or lesser extent, most are) rather than actually engage in the real issues. Go google the information yourself if you want to find out." i didn't think you had anything to back that sweeping statement up with but it was worth asking. | |||
" Labour and the trade unions have a pretty poor historical record when it comes to confronting racism (and sexism to if you look in to it). care to elaborate on this? Not really. The point being that it's easy to just call someone, or an organisation, racist (probably because, to a greater or lesser extent, most are) rather than actually engage in the real issues. Go google the information yourself if you want to find out. i didn't think you had anything to back that sweeping statement up with but it was worth asking. " Then you clearly don't know you socialist history very well. Stop defending and go look for yourself. You don't need me to find the truth for you. | |||
" Labour and the trade unions have a pretty poor historical record when it comes to confronting racism (and sexism to if you look in to it). care to elaborate on this? Not really. The point being that it's easy to just call someone, or an organisation, racist (probably because, to a greater or lesser extent, most are) rather than actually engage in the real issues. Go google the information yourself if you want to find out. i didn't think you had anything to back that sweeping statement up with but it was worth asking. Then you clearly don't know you socialist history very well. Stop defending and go look for yourself. You don't need me to find the truth for you." i have the complete list of tuc reolutions on all equality matters on my bookshelf. i'm not dfending anything, just pointing out your obvious lack of knowledge on the subject from what you wrote. | |||
" Labour and the trade unions have a pretty poor historical record when it comes to confronting racism (and sexism to if you look in to it). care to elaborate on this? Not really. The point being that it's easy to just call someone, or an organisation, racist (probably because, to a greater or lesser extent, most are) rather than actually engage in the real issues. Go google the information yourself if you want to find out. i didn't think you had anything to back that sweeping statement up with but it was worth asking. Then you clearly don't know you socialist history very well. Stop defending and go look for yourself. You don't need me to find the truth for you. i have the complete list of tuc reolutions on all equality matters on my bookshelf. i'm not dfending anything, just pointing out your obvious lack of knowledge on the subject from what you wrote." I really don't want to get into specifics or a Labour, TUC bashing thread on an issue that should unite all fair minded people however, as you seem insistent on not accepting that racism is a problem that crosses all political life try this link to a report written in the 80's that goes into quite some detail of the Trade Unions historical racism. http://web.warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/CRER_RC/publications/pdfs/Policy%20Papers%20in%20Ethnic%20Relations/PolicyP%20No.5.pdf | |||
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"this white paper (from 1986) highlights the institutional racism in the tuc, granted. it also highlights the active measures it took confront that racism. and it was your statement that it had a poor history of "confronting" racism that was being questioned, not the racism itself. it also highlights in a very positive way, in the conclusions, the solidarity between the miners union (specifically) and black/asian workers that was being displayed at the time the paper was written. so i ask again, what have you got to back up your statement that they have a poor record on "confronting" racism?" I'm well aware of what the report says, that's why I chose it. What exactly are you trying to prove here? Do you seriously believe that there are no racists in the Labour movement? If so that would make it almost unique in the world. If you're not willing to acknowledge the problem in it's entirety then you are part of the problem not part of the solution. I'm not here to prove that Labour or the Trade Union movement is racist. My point is is that racism has and still does exist across all political parties, all social groupings and all walks of life including the Labour Party and the TUC. If you want to believe that the Labour movement is uniquely immune to this, despite it's clearly checked history and the comments of both Gordon Brown and Ed Miliband on immigration more recently, then carry on living in your happy socialist utopian bubble while those of us who want to try and do something about racism that involves a little more than just calling anyone who doesn't agree with us racists, get on and do it. Fighting racism involves a little more than a few fine motions at a conference and it starts by firstly acknowledging where the problem exists, not in denial. | |||
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"this white paper (from 1986) highlights the institutional racism in the tuc, granted. it also highlights the active measures it took confront that racism. and it was your statement that it had a poor history of "confronting" racism that was being questioned, not the racism itself. it also highlights in a very positive way, in the conclusions, the solidarity between the miners union (specifically) and black/asian workers that was being displayed at the time the paper was written. so i ask again, what have you got to back up your statement that they have a poor record on "confronting" racism? I'm well aware of what the report says, that's why I chose it. What exactly are you trying to prove here? Do you seriously believe that there are no racists in the Labour movement? If so that would make it almost unique in the world. If you're not willing to acknowledge the problem in it's entirety then you are part of the problem not part of the solution. I'm not here to prove that Labour or the Trade Union movement is racist. My point is is that racism has and still does exist across all political parties, all social groupings and all walks of life including the Labour Party and the TUC. If you want to believe that the Labour movement is uniquely immune to this, despite it's clearly checked history and the comments of both Gordon Brown and Ed Miliband on immigration more recently, then carry on living in your happy socialist utopian bubble while those of us who want to try and do something about racism that involves a little more than just calling anyone who doesn't agree with us racists, get on and do it. Fighting racism involves a little more than a few fine motions at a conference and it starts by firstly acknowledging where the problem exists, not in denial." no.... you said they had a poor history in "confronting" racism .... if you said they had their fair share of racists in the movement or something along those lines then we wouldn't be having this dialogue as i would have agreed with you. but you didn't say that, you specifically said about their record on "confronting" the issue. | |||
"if you're not willing to acknowledge the problem in it's entirety then you are part of the problem not part of the solution. " it seems you're trying to accuse me of being a racist there ..... i'll ask an extremely blunt question ..... are you calling me a racist? | |||
"if you're not willing to acknowledge the problem in it's entirety then you are part of the problem not part of the solution. it seems you're trying to accuse me of being a racist there ..... i'll ask an extremely blunt question ..... are you calling me a racist? "I never call anyone a racist. It's a pointless label. However, if you're more interested in turning a serious social problem into a left/right party political issues, if you're more interested in scoring debating points rather than facing up to the issue and if your unwilling to accept racism exists with those who claim to socialist just as much as anyone else, them you are definitely part of the problem. | |||
" Fighting racism involves a little more than a few fine motions at a conference and it starts by firstly acknowledging where the problem exists, not in denial." By definition motions at conference are an acceptance from within that there is an issue with racism, sexism, homophobia etc albeit only with a minority as in all walks of life and are part of the solution and the ongoing issue to eradicate it within the workplace and in how those employees best serve all members of our society equally.. as an ex official of a union where the policies are very clear and are in partnership with the employer and applied as necessary it certainly wasn't the case that anyone was in denial but there's not much good that looking back and hand wringing about the old old days achieves.. | |||
"if you're not willing to acknowledge the problem in it's entirety then you are part of the problem not part of the solution. it seems you're trying to accuse me of being a racist there ..... i'll ask an extremely blunt question ..... are you calling me a racist?
I never call anyone a racist. It's a pointless label. However, if you're more interested in turning a serious social problem into a left/right party political issues, if you're more interested in scoring debating points rather than facing up to the issue and if your unwilling to accept racism exists with those who claim to socialist just as much as anyone else, them you are definitely part of the problem."you've not answered my question. are you calling me a racist. simple yes or no will do. i haven't mentioned left or right party politics once. i haven't even mentioned any political party at all. i haven't denied that the tuc have had racists lurking in their midst either. what i have done is questioned you on your use of the words " poor historical record when it comes to confronting racism", and it's your equivocation in the use of the word "confronting" that is in question here. i've challanged you repeatedly on this but you continue to side step it and now instead you've chosen a course of ad hominem | |||
"if you're not willing to acknowledge the problem in it's entirety then you are part of the problem not part of the solution. it seems you're trying to accuse me of being a racist there ..... i'll ask an extremely blunt question ..... are you calling me a racist?
I never call anyone a racist. It's a pointless label. However, if you're more interested in turning a serious social problem into a left/right party political issues, if you're more interested in scoring debating points rather than facing up to the issue and if your unwilling to accept racism exists with those who claim to socialist just as much as anyone else, them you are definitely part of the problem.
you've not answered my question. are you calling me a racist. simple yes or no will do.
"I have answered your question bit I'll answer it again for you if you want. I NEVER CALL ANYONE RACIST. IT'S A POINTLESS LABEL. You are anyone aren't you? " i haven't mentioned left or right party politics once. i haven't even mentioned any political party at all. i haven't denied that the tuc have had racists lurking in their midst either. what i have done is questioned you on your use of the words " poor historical record when it comes to confronting racism", and it's your equivocation in the use of the word "confronting" that is in question here. i've challenged you repeatedly on this but you continue to side step it and now instead you've chosen a course of ad hominem" Ad hominem reasoning is not always fallacious, for example, when it relates to the credibility of statements of fact or when used in certain kinds of moral and practical reasoning. Unequivocally. The Labour movement has a poor historical record on confronting racism. I've even produced an independent report that points out that historical record. The question now is are you going to start arguing against racism on here or are you going to carry on attacking me for daring to point out that neither Labour or the Trade Union movement either have been or are immune from being racist. I also unequivocally stand by my statements that, I'm brief, say that if your more interested in scoring political points rather than actually confronting racism, then you are part of the problem. | |||
"if you're not willing to acknowledge the problem in it's entirety then you are part of the problem not part of the solution. it seems you're trying to accuse me of being a racist there ..... i'll ask an extremely blunt question ..... are you calling me a racist?
I never call anyone a racist. It's a pointless label. However, if you're more interested in turning a serious social problem into a left/right party political issues, if you're more interested in scoring debating points rather than facing up to the issue and if your unwilling to accept racism exists with those who claim to socialist just as much as anyone else, them you are definitely part of the problem.
you've not answered my question. are you calling me a racist. simple yes or no will do.
I have answered your question bit I'll answer it again for you if you want.
I NEVER CALL ANYONE RACIST. IT'S A POINTLESS LABEL.
You are anyone aren't you?
i haven't mentioned left or right party politics once. i haven't even mentioned any political party at all. i haven't denied that the tuc have had racists lurking in their midst either. what i have done is questioned you on your use of the words " poor historical record when it comes to confronting racism", and it's your equivocation in the use of the word "confronting" that is in question here. i've challenged you repeatedly on this but you continue to side step it and now instead you've chosen a course of ad hominem
Ad hominem reasoning is not always fallacious, for example, when it relates to the credibility of statements of fact or when used in certain kinds of moral and practical reasoning.
Unequivocally. The Labour movement has a poor historical record on confronting racism. I've even produced an independent report that points out that historical record.
The question now is are you going to start arguing against racism on here or are you going to carry on attacking me for daring to point out that neither Labour or the Trade Union movement either have been or are immune from being racist. I also unequivocally stand by my statements that, I'm brief, say that if your more interested in scoring political points rather than actually confronting racism, then you are part of the problem."the ad hominem continues then? | |||
" Fighting racism involves a little more than a few fine motions at a conference and it starts by firstly acknowledging where the problem exists, not in denial. By definition motions at conference are an acceptance from within that there is an issue with racism, sexism, homophobia etc albeit only with a minority as in all walks of life and are part of the solution and the ongoing issue to eradicate it within the workplace and in how those employees best serve all members of our society equally.. as an ex official of a union where the policies are very clear and are in partnership with the employer and applied as necessary it certainly wasn't the case that anyone was in denial but there's not much good that looking back and hand wringing about the old old days achieves.. " I'm really trying not to actually attack Labour and the TUC too much on their racism record because you are right, they have tried to address the issue. However they need to do more and mostly, they need to stop calling everyone else racist for simply razing issues such as immigration or EU membership. I've simply pointed out their some what checkered past on the issue and some of the statements Brown and Miliband made about immigration that were not too far removed from remarks that could have been made by Fararge. I feel like I'm being dragged kicking and screaming into the same old Left/Right party political threads that we've already had plenty of on here. | |||
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"if you're not willing to acknowledge the problem in it's entirety then you are part of the problem not part of the solution. it seems you're trying to accuse me of being a racist there ..... i'll ask an extremely blunt question ..... are you calling me a racist?
I never call anyone a racist. It's a pointless label. However, if you're more interested in turning a serious social problem into a left/right party political issues, if you're more interested in scoring debating points rather than facing up to the issue and if your unwilling to accept racism exists with those who claim to socialist just as much as anyone else, them you are definitely part of the problem.
you've not answered my question. are you calling me a racist. simple yes or no will do.
I have answered your question bit I'll answer it again for you if you want.
I NEVER CALL ANYONE RACIST. IT'S A POINTLESS LABEL.
You are anyone aren't you?
i haven't mentioned left or right party politics once. i haven't even mentioned any political party at all. i haven't denied that the tuc have had racists lurking in their midst either. what i have done is questioned you on your use of the words " poor historical record when it comes to confronting racism", and it's your equivocation in the use of the word "confronting" that is in question here. i've challenged you repeatedly on this but you continue to side step it and now instead you've chosen a course of ad hominem
Ad hominem reasoning is not always fallacious, for example, when it relates to the credibility of statements of fact or when used in certain kinds of moral and practical reasoning.
Unequivocally. The Labour movement has a poor historical record on confronting racism. I've even produced an independent report that points out that historical record.
The question now is are you going to start arguing against racism on here or are you going to carry on attacking me for daring to point out that neither Labour or the Trade Union movement either have been or are immune from being racist. I also unequivocally stand by my statements that, I'm brief, say that if your more interested in scoring political points rather than actually confronting racism, then you are part of the problem.
the ad hominem continues then? "When a persons attitude to a problem is the problem then that attitude should be pointed out. That could be considered ad hominem (as in directed to the person) but it's also to the point. I've not called your integrity into question, I've not questioned your intelligence or your motivation. This is not a personal attack or argument against you. I think we're wandering round in circles now and the points I've reluctantly made are not the ones I think this thread should be about. Let's call it a night and maybe we'll do a better job of it tomorrow. | |||
"UKIP maybe racist or may not be but they are certainly Xenophobic " Haven't we all got some xenophobia in us? I have personally experienced xenophobia in parts of the UK that I have lived in. I've even experienced it within my own country, although strictly speaking that cannot be defined as xenophobia. But back to UKIP... are the xenophobic, or wanting to protect the country from mass, unbridled immigration? | |||
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http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/oct/29/anonymous-ku-klux-klan-members-reveal-names | |||
