FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Madonna/whore complex
Madonna/whore complex
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It's a common thing, you see examples of it here all the time , men stating they wouldn't have a relationship with someone on here as the women are "not the type of women" they would seek in a relationship. So that demonstrates the madonna/whore complex... it also explains why so many married men are here, they possibly married a "madonna" |
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By *iss SJWoman
over a year ago
Hull |
"Hows can you be in a swingers site and call anyone a whore...?
I've googled her and her pics look sexy keep having fin they are only pics..."
It’s not a reference to the pop star Madonna it’s a reference to the mother of Jesus. |
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Broadly speaking, my understanding is that *some* people see women as broadly two types of sexual being - the 'good' (Madonna), 'respectable' etc, whatever those terms might mean … the sort of woman they'd be happy to settle down with, and the 'bad' (whore) which generally means women who unashamedly own their sexuality. This attitude has been around *forever*, as typified by women who freely enjoy sex and who typically have lots of encounters being called slags and similar.
On here …. unbelievably, and hypocritically (by those who subscribe to this outdated view) it's an attitude which still crops up from time to time. For example, threads where men confess they'd never have a relationship with a woman from Fab - but of course they're okay to fuck in the meantime until they meet their own Madonna  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Broadly speaking, my understanding is that *some* people see women as broadly two types of sexual being - the 'good' (Madonna), 'respectable' etc, whatever those terms might mean … the sort of woman they'd be happy to settle down with, and the 'bad' (whore) which generally means women who unashamedly own their sexuality. This attitude has been around *forever*, as typified by women who freely enjoy sex and who typically have lots of encounters being called slags and similar.
On here …. unbelievably, and hypocritically (by those who subscribe to this outdated view) it's an attitude which still crops up from time to time. For example, threads where men confess they'd never have a relationship with a woman from Fab - but of course they're okay to fuck in the meantime until they meet their own Madonna "
omg not good I think you will find many women subscribe to the same philosophy |
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By *iss SJWoman
over a year ago
Hull |
"Broadly speaking, my understanding is that *some* people see women as broadly two types of sexual being - the 'good' (Madonna), 'respectable' etc, whatever those terms might mean … the sort of woman they'd be happy to settle down with, and the 'bad' (whore) which generally means women who unashamedly own their sexuality. This attitude has been around *forever*, as typified by women who freely enjoy sex and who typically have lots of encounters being called slags and similar.
On here …. unbelievably, and hypocritically (by those who subscribe to this outdated view) it's an attitude which still crops up from time to time. For example, threads where men confess they'd never have a relationship with a woman from Fab - but of course they're okay to fuck in the meantime until they meet their own Madonna "
I’ve noticed it a lot on this site - especially in status updates of people who aren’t getting meets! |
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"Broadly speaking, my understanding is that *some* people see women as broadly two types of sexual being - the 'good' (Madonna), 'respectable' etc, whatever those terms might mean … the sort of woman they'd be happy to settle down with, and the 'bad' (whore) which generally means women who unashamedly own their sexuality. This attitude has been around *forever*, as typified by women who freely enjoy sex and who typically have lots of encounters being called slags and similar.
On here …. unbelievably, and hypocritically (by those who subscribe to this outdated view) it's an attitude which still crops up from time to time. For example, threads where men confess they'd never have a relationship with a woman from Fab - but of course they're okay to fuck in the meantime until they meet their own Madonna omg not good I think you will find many women subscribe to the same philosophy "
I don't disagree at all that some women are all too quick to call others whores  But on the 'would you have a relationship with a Fab woman?' type threads it is of course (a minority of) men who usually respond with a Madonna/whore attitude. |
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By *ax1971Man
over a year ago
St helens |
"Hows can you be in a swingers site and call anyone a whore...?
I've googled her and her pics look sexy keep having fin they are only pics...
It’s not a reference to the pop star Madonna it’s a reference to the mother of Jesus. "
Or is it the fallen Madonna with the big boobies.....allo allo...x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Broadly speaking, my understanding is that *some* people see women as broadly two types of sexual being - the 'good' (Madonna), 'respectable' etc, whatever those terms might mean … the sort of woman they'd be happy to settle down with, and the 'bad' (whore) which generally means women who unashamedly own their sexuality. This attitude has been around *forever*, as typified by women who freely enjoy sex and who typically have lots of encounters being called slags and similar.
On here …. unbelievably, and hypocritically (by those who subscribe to this outdated view) it's an attitude which still crops up from time to time. For example, threads where men confess they'd never have a relationship with a woman from Fab - but of course they're okay to fuck in the meantime until they meet their own Madonna "
ah thank you! That makes it very clear.
Doesn’t the old saying go that men want a ‘lady’ in public and a ‘whore’ in the bedroom!? 
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Broadly speaking, my understanding is that *some* people see women as broadly two types of sexual being - the 'good' (Madonna), 'respectable' etc, whatever those terms might mean … the sort of woman they'd be happy to settle down with, and the 'bad' (whore) which generally means women who unashamedly own their sexuality. This attitude has been around *forever*, as typified by women who freely enjoy sex and who typically have lots of encounters being called slags and similar.
On here …. unbelievably, and hypocritically (by those who subscribe to this outdated view) it's an attitude which still crops up from time to time. For example, threads where men confess they'd never have a relationship with a woman from Fab - but of course they're okay to fuck in the meantime until they meet their own Madonna "
And then they are back out seeking illicit sex with the 'whores' as their 'madonna' doesn't satisfy their needs |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think there's a pace to romantic relationships. If there's great chemistry and you can't stop from fucking each other on the first date that's one thing. But if you're only just getting to know each other and she offers sex it could feel a bit cheap and jumping the gun somewhat. A woman who gives out that easily could be perceived as offering less value and, in turn, having a more flippant devaluing view of your own intimacy.
When people fall in love they like to feel it's special. If it feels like you're just one in the queue it might cause you to question whether it really is special. And a little thought like that, early on in getting to know someone, can be the end of things. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think there's a pace to romantic relationships. If there's great chemistry and you can't stop from fucking each other on the first date that's one thing. But if you're only just getting to know each other and she offers sex it could feel a bit cheap and jumping the gun somewhat. A woman who gives out that easily could be perceived as offering less value and, in turn, having a more flippant devaluing view of your own intimacy.
When people fall in love they like to feel it's special. If it feels like you're just one in the queue it might cause you to question whether it really is special. And a little thought like that, early on in getting to know someone, can be the end of things."
On this sex site, the perception of giving it too easily shouldn't apply, yet I still get mails saying 'at last, a woman who doesn't want to sleep with the whole site'.
In a relationship, if we don't 'give it' soon enough, we are frigid, cock teasers. Sex still remains judgemental to some. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
This is a real turn on for me.
The contrast and the contradiction.
An attractive, intelligent, articulate, confident redpectable woman choosing to indulge in debauched and taboo sexual activities.
Perfect  |
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"I think there's a pace to romantic relationships. If there's great chemistry and you can't stop from fucking each other on the first date that's one thing. But if you're only just getting to know each other and she offers sex it could feel a bit cheap and jumping the gun somewhat. A woman who gives out that easily could be perceived as offering less value and, in turn, having a more flippant devaluing view of your own intimacy.
When people fall in love they like to feel it's special. If it feels like you're just one in the queue it might cause you to question whether it really is special. And a little thought like that, early on in getting to know someone, can be the end of things."
A few things jump out to me from your post
"if she offers sex it could feel cheap"
"A woman that gives out easily perceived as less value"
" just one in a queue"
Can you see how it might look like you perceive sex as a transaction, something to be bargained with.. withheld or given.
The same woman could fuck you on the first night or wait three months, it's the same woman with the same emotions and feelings and values, but she might just have felt like it on the first evening ,as she didn't see sex as something to withhold or give to manipulate a relationship ...
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By *irthandgirthMan
over a year ago
Camberley occasionally doncaster |
What I don't get is why people can't see that the Madonna/whore can be the same person? It is all about balance. Everyone shows different facets of themselves to different people in different situations.
The person who sits down to dinner with their kids is still the same person having a 3sum in a club. We show and hide parts of ourselves as necessary. The problem comes when people do not apply the same rules to others that they do for themselves...
Rant over  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think there's a pace to romantic relationships. If there's great chemistry and you can't stop from fucking each other on the first date that's one thing. But if you're only just getting to know each other and she offers sex it could feel a bit cheap and jumping the gun somewhat. A woman who gives out that easily could be perceived as offering less value and, in turn, having a more flippant devaluing view of your own intimacy.
When people fall in love they like to feel it's special. If it feels like you're just one in the queue it might cause you to question whether it really is special. And a little thought like that, early on in getting to know someone, can be the end of things.
On this sex site, the perception of giving it too easily shouldn't apply, yet I still get mails saying 'at last, a woman who doesn't want to sleep with the whole site'.
In a relationship, if we don't 'give it' soon enough, we are frigid, cock teasers. Sex still remains judgemental to some."
I guess what I'm getting at is that, in a romantic relationship, sex is supposed to be special, different. Like Dan said earlier, I think most men's ideal woman would be a "lady" in public and a "whore" in the bedroom. But there is a perceived value to having made it past a woman's selection criteria. If there is no such criteria it can all feel rather "easy come, easy go". And in a romantic setting that can be a bit too disenchanting for some.
There is also a sense, for me, of putting the cart before the horse. In a romantic relationship sex should be at the apex of the intimacy pyramid. When you take it off that throne I wonder if you don't slightly take the wind out of the sails of a romantic relationship. Dunno  Just thinking out loud in my usual way |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Broadly speaking, my understanding is that *some* people see women as broadly two types of sexual being - the 'good' (Madonna), 'respectable' etc, whatever those terms might mean … the sort of woman they'd be happy to settle down with, and the 'bad' (whore) which generally means women who unashamedly own their sexuality. This attitude has been around *forever*, as typified by women who freely enjoy sex and who typically have lots of encounters being called slags and similar.
On here …. unbelievably, and hypocritically (by those who subscribe to this outdated view) it's an attitude which still crops up from time to time. For example, threads where men confess they'd never have a relationship with a woman from Fab - but of course they're okay to fuck in the meantime until they meet their own Madonna omg not good I think you will find many women subscribe to the same philosophy
I don't disagree at all that some women are all too quick to call others whores But on the 'would you have a relationship with a Fab woman?' type threads it is of course (a minority of) men who usually respond with a Madonna/whore attitude."
My point was that many women who comment about relationships in forums say they would never date a guy from fab but this is life we are real people going about real lives in the real world, what happens here is life  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What I don't get is why people can't see that the Madonna/whore can be the same person? It is all about balance. Everyone shows different facets of themselves to different people in different situations.
The person who sits down to dinner with their kids is still the same person having a 3sum in a club. We show and hide parts of ourselves as necessary. The problem comes when people do not apply the same rules to others that they do for themselves...
Rant over "
I take the Madonna/whore thing to relate more to how a woman comes across. Perhaps a better way to phrase it is refined/slapper. The refined woman withholds her sexuality until the man has met her selection criteria. The slapper will shag anything with a pulse. I'd hazard a guess that few women on Fab are slappers. But Fab itself is a bit of a slapper website. So there's a degree of getting slighted by association... and that works for both genders. So I too come across as a bit of a slapper merely by being on here. Even though I assure you I'm not.
I think most men would love to have a relationship with a refined woman who, in the bedroom, was actually a real kinky goer. But what the Madonna/whore complex refers to is the double standard that guys are happy fucking slappers but would rather date women with a higher selection criteria.
Am I digging a massive grave here? Haha  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"What I don't get is why people can't see that the Madonna/whore can be the same person? It is all about balance. Everyone shows different facets of themselves to different people in different situations.
The person who sits down to dinner with their kids is still the same person having a 3sum in a club. We show and hide parts of ourselves as necessary. The problem comes when people do not apply the same rules to others that they do for themselves...
Rant over "
Freud said that they can't.
Men simply cannot see a woman as both. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"What I don't get is why people can't see that the Madonna/whore can be the same person? It is all about balance. Everyone shows different facets of themselves to different people in different situations.
The person who sits down to dinner with their kids is still the same person having a 3sum in a club. We show and hide parts of ourselves as necessary. The problem comes when people do not apply the same rules to others that they do for themselves...
Rant over
Freud said that they can't.
Men simply cannot see a woman as both."
I am perfectly capable of seeing women of both.
I treat people much the same in the real world but am perfectly capable of modifying that relationship behind closed doors...or under the table |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"What I don't get is why people can't see that the Madonna/whore can be the same person? It is all about balance. Everyone shows different facets of themselves to different people in different situations.
The person who sits down to dinner with their kids is still the same person having a 3sum in a club. We show and hide parts of ourselves as necessary. The problem comes when people do not apply the same rules to others that they do for themselves...
Rant over
Freud said that they can't.
Men simply cannot see a woman as both.
I am perfectly capable of seeing women of both.
I treat people much the same in the real world but am perfectly capable of modifying that relationship behind closed doors...or under the table"
Is your wife on here?
Would you be happy for her to be on here?
Treated like a free whore by endless braindead men?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What I don't get is why people can't see that the Madonna/whore can be the same person? It is all about balance. Everyone shows different facets of themselves to different people in different situations.
The person who sits down to dinner with their kids is still the same person having a 3sum in a club. We show and hide parts of ourselves as necessary. The problem comes when people do not apply the same rules to others that they do for themselves...
Rant over
Freud said that they can't.
Men simply cannot see a woman as both."
and women cannot see men in the same way |
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"What I don't get is why people can't see that the Madonna/whore can be the same person? It is all about balance. Everyone shows different facets of themselves to different people in different situations.
The person who sits down to dinner with their kids is still the same person having a 3sum in a club. We show and hide parts of ourselves as necessary. The problem comes when people do not apply the same rules to others that they do for themselves...
Rant over
I take the Madonna/whore thing to relate more to how a woman comes across. Perhaps a better way to phrase it is refined/slapper. The refined woman withholds her sexuality until the man has met her selection criteria. The slapper will shag anything with a pulse. I'd hazard a guess that few women on Fab are slappers. But Fab itself is a bit of a slapper website. So there's a degree of getting slighted by association... and that works for both genders. So I too come across as a bit of a slapper merely by being on here. Even though I assure you I'm not.
I think most men would love to have a relationship with a refined woman who, in the bedroom, was actually a real kinky goer. But what the Madonna/whore complex refers to is the double standard that guys are happy fucking slappers but would rather date women with a higher selection criteria.
Am I digging a massive grave here? Haha "
yes. You come across as wanting to manipulate a relationship and hold all the power as regards sex
As something to be bargained with by giving or withholding sex |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm curious. Isn't it true of both genders that some of them would be happy to fuck people who have no/low selection criteria but not date them. What does it bother you if a guy is willing to fuck anything if he's hot? It's just a fuck. But of course you probably wouldn't want to date such a guy. Isn't that the Madonna/whore issue in a nutshell? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm curious. Isn't it true of both genders that some of them would be happy to fuck people who have no/low selection criteria but not date them. What does it bother you if a guy is willing to fuck anything if he's hot? It's just a fuck. But of course you probably wouldn't want to date such a guy. Isn't that the Madonna/whore issue in a nutshell? "
It works both ways but it only ever seems to be a negative thing for men.
I did a thread about sluts and everyone assumed it was about women....!!
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What I don't get is why people can't see that the Madonna/whore can be the same person? It is all about balance. Everyone shows different facets of themselves to different people in different situations.
The person who sits down to dinner with their kids is still the same person having a 3sum in a club. We show and hide parts of ourselves as necessary. The problem comes when people do not apply the same rules to others that they do for themselves...
Rant over "
I do agree with you and I'd guess that they do not apply the same rules to others because they must unconsciously or consciously think that what they are doing isn't normal.
It can't be reduced to one gender though.
I think it is even more complex than that. As others have said, a relationship implicitly implies some sort of exclusivity. That's why some couples do not kiss others.
If, as a man, I do everything and anything with everyone and anyone, sexually or not, would you see me as a suitable husband and ultimately as a suitable father? |
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"I'm curious. Isn't it true of both genders that some of them would be happy to fuck people who have no/low selection criteria but not date them. What does it bother you if a guy is willing to fuck anything if he's hot? It's just a fuck. But of course you probably wouldn't want to date such a guy. Isn't that the Madonna/whore issue in a nutshell?
It works both ways but it only ever seems to be a negative thing for men.
I did a thread about sluts and everyone assumed it was about women....!!
"
that is because the definition of the word slut refers to women. Maybe you should of used a different word if you didnt want them to assume |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm curious. Isn't it true of both genders that some of them would be happy to fuck people who have no/low selection criteria but not date them. What does it bother you if a guy is willing to fuck anything if he's hot? It's just a fuck. But of course you probably wouldn't want to date such a guy. Isn't that the Madonna/whore issue in a nutshell?
It works both ways but it only ever seems to be a negative thing for men.
I did a thread about sluts and everyone assumed it was about women....!!
that is because the definition of the word slut refers to women. Maybe you should of used a different word if you didnt want them to assume"
What word is used for men sluts? |
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"I'm curious. Isn't it true of both genders that some of them would be happy to fuck people who have no/low selection criteria but not date them. What does it bother you if a guy is willing to fuck anything if he's hot? It's just a fuck. But of course you probably wouldn't want to date such a guy. Isn't that the Madonna/whore issue in a nutshell?
It works both ways but it only ever seems to be a negative thing for men.
I did a thread about sluts and everyone assumed it was about women....!!
that is because the definition of the word slut refers to women. Maybe you should of used a different word if you didnt want them to assume
What word is used for men sluts?"
i dont know. I dont think there is a word. But the word slut refers to women. Men can only show characterists of being a slut but cant actually be one unless they have a sex change. Its a derogratior word for women |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Men feel easily threatened so a confident woman who plays the field like a man would wish to is clearly a slut. A male slut is somwthing to be admired, almost revered.
Welcome to the 18th Century pop pickers. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm curious. Isn't it true of both genders that some of them would be happy to fuck people who have no/low selection criteria but not date them. What does it bother you if a guy is willing to fuck anything if he's hot? It's just a fuck. But of course you probably wouldn't want to date such a guy. Isn't that the Madonna/whore issue in a nutshell?
It works both ways but it only ever seems to be a negative thing for men.
I did a thread about sluts and everyone assumed it was about women....!!
that is because the definition of the word slut refers to women. Maybe you should of used a different word if you didnt want them to assume
What word is used for men sluts?i dont know. I dont think there is a word. But the word slut refers to women. Men can only show characterists of being a slut but cant actually be one unless they have a sex change. Its a derogratior word for women"
Can you let us know where you read this? A proper authentic evidence please.
Far as I'm concerned I agree with the other lady. Men can be and are sluts/slags/whores as much as women can be. If they behave that way, they deserve the same title! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm curious. Isn't it true of both genders that some of them would be happy to fuck people who have no/low selection criteria but not date them. What does it bother you if a guy is willing to fuck anything if he's hot? It's just a fuck. But of course you probably wouldn't want to date such a guy. Isn't that the Madonna/whore issue in a nutshell?
It works both ways but it only ever seems to be a negative thing for men.
I did a thread about sluts and everyone assumed it was about women....!!
that is because the definition of the word slut refers to women. Maybe you should of used a different word if you didnt want them to assume
What word is used for men sluts?i dont know. I dont think there is a word. But the word slut refers to women. Men can only show characterists of being a slut but cant actually be one unless they have a sex change. Its a derogratior word for women"
Ironically I think the word slut has been embraced by this scene as a positive thing. I definitely see women who are sexually empowered sluts as being just as positive as a similarly male slut. But I think the word "slapper" retains negative connotations for most on here. Whilst they're quite proud of being a slut, they wouldn't like to think of themselves as a slapper. The slut is merely sexually explorative. The slapper has no/low selection criteria. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The amount of people that thought the post referred to the singer Madonna, beggars belief!
"
I didn't. However she does look abit of a washed out whore these days. So those who assumed the OP was referring to the singer, can't really be sniggered at. |
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"I'm curious. Isn't it true of both genders that some of them would be happy to fuck people who have no/low selection criteria but not date them. What does it bother you if a guy is willing to fuck anything if he's hot? It's just a fuck. But of course you probably wouldn't want to date such a guy. Isn't that the Madonna/whore issue in a nutshell?
It works both ways but it only ever seems to be a negative thing for men.
I did a thread about sluts and everyone assumed it was about women....!!
that is because the definition of the word slut refers to women. Maybe you should of used a different word if you didnt want them to assume
What word is used for men sluts?i dont know. I dont think there is a word. But the word slut refers to women. Men can only show characterists of being a slut but cant actually be one unless they have a sex change. Its a derogratior word for women
Ironically I think the word slut has been embraced by this scene as a positive thing. I definitely see women who are sexually empowered sluts as being just as positive as a similarly male slut. But I think the word "slapper" retains negative connotations for most on here. Whilst they're quite proud of being a slut, they wouldn't like to think of themselves as a slapper. The slut is merely sexually explorative. The slapper has no/low selection criteria. "
not all women want to be referred to as sluts and any man who refered to me as a slut would be out the door quicker than his feet could carry him |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm curious. Isn't it true of both genders that some of them would be happy to fuck people who have no/low selection criteria but not date them. What does it bother you if a guy is willing to fuck anything if he's hot? It's just a fuck. But of course you probably wouldn't want to date such a guy. Isn't that the Madonna/whore issue in a nutshell?
It works both ways but it only ever seems to be a negative thing for men.
I did a thread about sluts and everyone assumed it was about women....!!
that is because the definition of the word slut refers to women. Maybe you should of used a different word if you didnt want them to assume
What word is used for men sluts?i dont know. I dont think there is a word. But the word slut refers to women. Men can only show characterists of being a slut but cant actually be one unless they have a sex change. Its a derogratior word for women
Ironically I think the word slut has been embraced by this scene as a positive thing. I definitely see women who are sexually empowered sluts as being just as positive as a similarly male slut. But I think the word "slapper" retains negative connotations for most on here. Whilst they're quite proud of being a slut, they wouldn't like to think of themselves as a slapper. The slut is merely sexually explorative. The slapper has no/low selection criteria. not all women want to be referred to as sluts and any man who refered to me as a slut would be out the door quicker than his feet could carry him"
Exactly so! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm curious. Isn't it true of both genders that some of them would be happy to fuck people who have no/low selection criteria but not date them. What does it bother you if a guy is willing to fuck anything if he's hot? It's just a fuck. But of course you probably wouldn't want to date such a guy. Isn't that the Madonna/whore issue in a nutshell?
It works both ways but it only ever seems to be a negative thing for men.
I did a thread about sluts and everyone assumed it was about women....!!
that is because the definition of the word slut refers to women. Maybe you should of used a different word if you didnt want them to assume
What word is used for men sluts?i dont know. I dont think there is a word. But the word slut refers to women. Men can only show characterists of being a slut but cant actually be one unless they have a sex change. Its a derogratior word for women
Ironically I think the word slut has been embraced by this scene as a positive thing. I definitely see women who are sexually empowered sluts as being just as positive as a similarly male slut. But I think the word "slapper" retains negative connotations for most on here. Whilst they're quite proud of being a slut, they wouldn't like to think of themselves as a slapper. The slut is merely sexually explorative. The slapper has no/low selection criteria. not all women want to be referred to as sluts and any man who refered to me as a slut would be out the door quicker than his feet could carry him"
I would personally never call a woman a slut. I don't have a negative view of sexual exploration. And I'd never call a woman a slapper, although I do have a negative view of having no standards. I don't go in for that kind of judgemental name calling.
But books like "the ethical slut" have caused some in this scene to appropriate the word as a positive thing. In this way if a woman referred to herself as a slut on here I'd assume she meant it in a positive celebratory way. And in that capacity I'm happy to join in and celebrate sexual exploration as a positive thing too... and so be a male slut too. But I'd never celebrate low/no standards. I see that as different |
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"I'm curious. Isn't it true of both genders that some of them would be happy to fuck people who have no/low selection criteria but not date them. What does it bother you if a guy is willing to fuck anything if he's hot? It's just a fuck. But of course you probably wouldn't want to date such a guy. Isn't that the Madonna/whore issue in a nutshell?
It works both ways but it only ever seems to be a negative thing for men.
I did a thread about sluts and everyone assumed it was about women....!!
that is because the definition of the word slut refers to women. Maybe you should of used a different word if you didnt want them to assume
What word is used for men sluts?i dont know. I dont think there is a word. But the word slut refers to women. Men can only show characterists of being a slut but cant actually be one unless they have a sex change. Its a derogratior word for women
Ironically I think the word slut has been embraced by this scene as a positive thing. I definitely see women who are sexually empowered sluts as being just as positive as a similarly male slut. But I think the word "slapper" retains negative connotations for most on here. Whilst they're quite proud of being a slut, they wouldn't like to think of themselves as a slapper. The slut is merely sexually explorative. The slapper has no/low selection criteria. not all women want to be referred to as sluts and any man who refered to me as a slut would be out the door quicker than his feet could carry him
I would personally never call a woman a slut. I don't have a negative view of sexual exploration. And I'd never call a woman a slapper, although I do have a negative view of having no standards. I don't go in for that kind of judgemental name calling.
But books like "the ethical slut" have caused some in this scene to appropriate the word as a positive thing. In this way if a woman referred to herself as a slut on here I'd assume she meant it in a positive celebratory way. And in that capacity I'm happy to join in and celebrate sexual exploration as a positive thing too... and so be a male slut too. But I'd never celebrate low/no standards. I see that as different "
i had the biggest row ive ever had over a guy who had read that book. He tried to intimidate me and bully me off a site. Never let up and even came on here to do the same and when i told him he was a bully he bloody reported me and i got a warning about sending abusive messages. God knows what he had told them about me |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
""Where such men love, they have no desire,and where they desire, they cannot love"
Thats what the main man said.
My question is, why?"
Ooo that's a very different take on it. I'll have to ponder that |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'm curious. Isn't it true of both genders that some of them would be happy to fuck people who have no/low selection criteria but not date them. What does it bother you if a guy is willing to fuck anything if he's hot? It's just a fuck. But of course you probably wouldn't want to date such a guy. Isn't that the Madonna/whore issue in a nutshell?
It works both ways but it only ever seems to be a negative thing for men.
I did a thread about sluts and everyone assumed it was about women....!!
that is because the definition of the word slut refers to women. Maybe you should of used a different word if you didnt want them to assume
What word is used for men sluts?i dont know. I dont think there is a word. But the word slut refers to women. Men can only show characterists of being a slut but cant actually be one unless they have a sex change. Its a derogratior word for women
Ironically I think the word slut has been embraced by this scene as a positive thing. I definitely see women who are sexually empowered sluts as being just as positive as a similarly male slut. But I think the word "slapper" retains negative connotations for most on here. Whilst they're quite proud of being a slut, they wouldn't like to think of themselves as a slapper. The slut is merely sexually explorative. The slapper has no/low selection criteria. not all women want to be referred to as sluts and any man who refered to me as a slut would be out the door quicker than his feet could carry him
I would personally never call a woman a slut. I don't have a negative view of sexual exploration. And I'd never call a woman a slapper, although I do have a negative view of having no standards. I don't go in for that kind of judgemental name calling.
But books like "the ethical slut" have caused some in this scene to appropriate the word as a positive thing. In this way if a woman referred to herself as a slut on here I'd assume she meant it in a positive celebratory way. And in that capacity I'm happy to join in and celebrate sexual exploration as a positive thing too... and so be a male slut too. But I'd never celebrate low/no standards. I see that as different "
I think using phrases like ‘no standards’ is judgemental. People always have criteria, you just don’t know what they are. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'm curious. Isn't it true of both genders that some of them would be happy to fuck people who have no/low selection criteria but not date them. What does it bother you if a guy is willing to fuck anything if he's hot? It's just a fuck. But of course you probably wouldn't want to date such a guy. Isn't that the Madonna/whore issue in a nutshell?
It works both ways but it only ever seems to be a negative thing for men.
I did a thread about sluts and everyone assumed it was about women....!!
that is because the definition of the word slut refers to women. Maybe you should of used a different word if you didnt want them to assume
What word is used for men sluts?i dont know. I dont think there is a word. But the word slut refers to women. Men can only show characterists of being a slut but cant actually be one unless they have a sex change. Its a derogratior word for women
Ironically I think the word slut has been embraced by this scene as a positive thing. I definitely see women who are sexually empowered sluts as being just as positive as a similarly male slut. But I think the word "slapper" retains negative connotations for most on here. Whilst they're quite proud of being a slut, they wouldn't like to think of themselves as a slapper. The slut is merely sexually explorative. The slapper has no/low selection criteria. not all women want to be referred to as sluts and any man who refered to me as a slut would be out the door quicker than his feet could carry him
I would personally never call a woman a slut. I don't have a negative view of sexual exploration. And I'd never call a woman a slapper, although I do have a negative view of having no standards. I don't go in for that kind of judgemental name calling.
But books like "the ethical slut" have caused some in this scene to appropriate the word as a positive thing. In this way if a woman referred to herself as a slut on here I'd assume she meant it in a positive celebratory way. And in that capacity I'm happy to join in and celebrate sexual exploration as a positive thing too... and so be a male slut too. But I'd never celebrate low/no standards. I see that as different i had the biggest row ive ever had over a guy who had read that book. He tried to intimidate me and bully me off a site. Never let up and even came on here to do the same and when i told him he was a bully he bloody reported me and i got a warning about sending abusive messages. God knows what he had told them about me "
Sorry to hear that. I enjoyed reading the book. But found it a bit "thou doth protest too much"... like there was actually some shame the authors felt and it led them to feel they had to write a massive defence of their lifestyle. Esther Perez's calmer French take on how infidelity, swinging and polyamory can sometimes support and refresh a long term relationship was much less dogmatic and more thoughtful |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I'm curious. Isn't it true of both genders that some of them would be happy to fuck people who have no/low selection criteria but not date them. What does it bother you if a guy is willing to fuck anything if he's hot? It's just a fuck. But of course you probably wouldn't want to date such a guy. Isn't that the Madonna/whore issue in a nutshell?
It works both ways but it only ever seems to be a negative thing for men.
I did a thread about sluts and everyone assumed it was about women....!!
that is because the definition of the word slut refers to women. Maybe you should of used a different word if you didnt want them to assume
What word is used for men sluts?i dont know. I dont think there is a word. But the word slut refers to women. Men can only show characterists of being a slut but cant actually be one unless they have a sex change. Its a derogratior word for women
Ironically I think the word slut has been embraced by this scene as a positive thing. I definitely see women who are sexually empowered sluts as being just as positive as a similarly male slut. But I think the word "slapper" retains negative connotations for most on here. Whilst they're quite proud of being a slut, they wouldn't like to think of themselves as a slapper. The slut is merely sexually explorative. The slapper has no/low selection criteria. not all women want to be referred to as sluts and any man who refered to me as a slut would be out the door quicker than his feet could carry him
I would personally never call a woman a slut. I don't have a negative view of sexual exploration. And I'd never call a woman a slapper, although I do have a negative view of having no standards. I don't go in for that kind of judgemental name calling.
But books like "the ethical slut" have caused some in this scene to appropriate the word as a positive thing. In this way if a woman referred to herself as a slut on here I'd assume she meant it in a positive celebratory way. And in that capacity I'm happy to join in and celebrate sexual exploration as a positive thing too... and so be a male slut too. But I'd never celebrate low/no standards. I see that as different
I think using phrases like ‘no standards’ is judgemental. People always have criteria, you just don’t know what they are."
Indeed
And how do we determine what constitutes having ' no standards' anyway? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
And I think the Madonna/whore perception is an absolute nonsense. A ridiculous false dichotomy believed only by people who have an inability to process the genuine complexity of women’s sexuality. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'm curious. Isn't it true of both genders that some of them would be happy to fuck people who have no/low selection criteria but not date them. What does it bother you if a guy is willing to fuck anything if he's hot? It's just a fuck. But of course you probably wouldn't want to date such a guy. Isn't that the Madonna/whore issue in a nutshell?
It works both ways but it only ever seems to be a negative thing for men.
I did a thread about sluts and everyone assumed it was about women....!!
that is because the definition of the word slut refers to women. Maybe you should of used a different word if you didnt want them to assume
What word is used for men sluts?i dont know. I dont think there is a word. But the word slut refers to women. Men can only show characterists of being a slut but cant actually be one unless they have a sex change. Its a derogratior word for women
Ironically I think the word slut has been embraced by this scene as a positive thing. I definitely see women who are sexually empowered sluts as being just as positive as a similarly male slut. But I think the word "slapper" retains negative connotations for most on here. Whilst they're quite proud of being a slut, they wouldn't like to think of themselves as a slapper. The slut is merely sexually explorative. The slapper has no/low selection criteria. not all women want to be referred to as sluts and any man who refered to me as a slut would be out the door quicker than his feet could carry him
I would personally never call a woman a slut. I don't have a negative view of sexual exploration. And I'd never call a woman a slapper, although I do have a negative view of having no standards. I don't go in for that kind of judgemental name calling.
But books like "the ethical slut" have caused some in this scene to appropriate the word as a positive thing. In this way if a woman referred to herself as a slut on here I'd assume she meant it in a positive celebratory way. And in that capacity I'm happy to join in and celebrate sexual exploration as a positive thing too... and so be a male slut too. But I'd never celebrate low/no standards. I see that as different
I think using phrases like ‘no standards’ is judgemental. People always have criteria, you just don’t know what they are.
Indeed
And how do we determine what constitutes having ' no standards' anyway?"
Exactly, I think *judgement* might be involved.. |
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"I'm curious. Isn't it true of both genders that some of them would be happy to fuck people who have no/low selection criteria but not date them. What does it bother you if a guy is willing to fuck anything if he's hot? It's just a fuck. But of course you probably wouldn't want to date such a guy. Isn't that the Madonna/whore issue in a nutshell?
It works both ways but it only ever seems to be a negative thing for men.
I did a thread about sluts and everyone assumed it was about women....!!
that is because the definition of the word slut refers to women. Maybe you should of used a different word if you didnt want them to assume
What word is used for men sluts?i dont know. I dont think there is a word. But the word slut refers to women. Men can only show characterists of being a slut but cant actually be one unless they have a sex change. Its a derogratior word for women
Ironically I think the word slut has been embraced by this scene as a positive thing. I definitely see women who are sexually empowered sluts as being just as positive as a similarly male slut. But I think the word "slapper" retains negative connotations for most on here. Whilst they're quite proud of being a slut, they wouldn't like to think of themselves as a slapper. The slut is merely sexually explorative. The slapper has no/low selection criteria. not all women want to be referred to as sluts and any man who refered to me as a slut would be out the door quicker than his feet could carry him
I would personally never call a woman a slut. I don't have a negative view of sexual exploration. And I'd never call a woman a slapper, although I do have a negative view of having no standards. I don't go in for that kind of judgemental name calling.
But books like "the ethical slut" have caused some in this scene to appropriate the word as a positive thing. In this way if a woman referred to herself as a slut on here I'd assume she meant it in a positive celebratory way. And in that capacity I'm happy to join in and celebrate sexual exploration as a positive thing too... and so be a male slut too. But I'd never celebrate low/no standards. I see that as different i had the biggest row ive ever had over a guy who had read that book. He tried to intimidate me and bully me off a site. Never let up and even came on here to do the same and when i told him he was a bully he bloody reported me and i got a warning about sending abusive messages. God knows what he had told them about me
Sorry to hear that. I enjoyed reading the book. But found it a bit "thou doth protest too much"... like there was actually some shame the authors felt and it led them to feel they had to write a massive defence of their lifestyle. Esther Perez's calmer French take on how infidelity, swinging and polyamory can sometimes support and refresh a long term relationship was much less dogmatic and more thoughtful "
i feel no shame
Sexually ive always done exactly what i want. If someone wants to judge me on it they can crack on it makes not a jot of difference to me |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think using phrases like ‘no standards’ is judgemental. People always have criteria, you just don’t know what they are."
Some people, like alcoholics and druggies, seem to lose their standards in a stupor. Some women and some men get so desperate for sex they drop their standards. There are genuinely some people who have this problem. Maybe it's sex addiction. I think, due to biology, this tends to effect men more than women. Their balls drive them mad and they end up fucking whatever they can get. But women can succumb to a similar madness after a long draught of intimacy.
I don't know. But to my mind the slapper (both male and female) definitely exists. Only political correctness would get in the way of admitting that |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"i feel no shame
Sexually ive always done exactly what i want. If someone wants to judge me on it they can crack on it makes not a jot of difference to me"
and so you shouldn't |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
""Where such men love, they have no desire,and where they desire, they cannot love"
Thats what the main man said.
My question is, why?"
Is it some sort of repressed emotion, like the early church suffered. The women they want filthy sex with remind them too much they arè nothing but wanton lustful creatures and have been led astray. They cannot love them out of guilt of enjoying themselves.
The lovely wives are to be revered as mothers to their children and partners in their lives, not to be sullied with dirty thoughts and actions. There is no desire as they have to take on other more innocent roles.
All on a very basic subconcious level of course
Isnt this why early priests shunned woman, they couldn't trust themselves around the woman so blamed the woman for their lack of control.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
""Where such men love, they have no desire,and where they desire, they cannot love"
Thats what the main man said.
My question is, why?
Ooo that's a very different take on it. I'll have to ponder that "
I think I'd point back to Esther Perez. Her book forwards the hypothesis that love seeks union with the other but eroticism thrives on the exciting difference of the other. She attributed this to both genders, arguing that many relationships dry up because the impulse of love destroys any of the tantalisingly erotic foreigness of each other. We become commonplace objects in each other's lives.
She recommended that healthy long term relationships should maintain a bit of mystery and resist the urge to morph from two distinct and intriguing lovers into one unit. Otherwise one or other party may end up looking elsewhere for that exciting erotic otherness.
Isn't this what you're getting at? |
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""Where such men love, they have no desire,and where they desire, they cannot love"
Thats what the main man said.
My question is, why?
Ooo that's a very different take on it. I'll have to ponder that
I think I'd point back to Esther Perez. Her book forwards the hypothesis that love seeks union with the other but eroticism thrives on the exciting difference of the other. She attributed this to both genders, arguing that many relationships dry up because the impulse of love destroys any of the tantalisingly erotic foreigness of each other. We become commonplace objects in each other's lives.
She recommended that healthy long term relationships should maintain a bit of mystery and resist the urge to morph from two distinct and intriguing lovers into one unit. Otherwise one or other party may end up looking elsewhere for that exciting erotic otherness.
Isn't this what you're getting at? "
isnt marriage about becoming one unit. Ive been to weddings where they have burnt two seperate candels to signify the coming together as one. Whats the point of being married if you cant be 100% yourself but have to hold something back to appear a "mystery" |
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""Where such men love, they have no desire,and where they desire, they cannot love"
Thats what the main man said.
My question is, why?
Is it some sort of repressed emotion, like the early church suffered. The women they want filthy sex with remind them too much they arè nothing but wanton lustful creatures and have been led astray. They cannot love them out of guilt of enjoying themselves.
The lovely wives are to be revered as mothers to their children and partners in their lives, not to be sullied with dirty thoughts and actions. There is no desire as they have to take on other more innocent roles.
All on a very basic subconcious level of course
Isnt this why early priests shunned woman, they couldn't trust themselves around the woman so blamed the woman for their lack of control.
"
And so it continues, with victims of certain crimes still being blamed for causing their own misfortune because of the clothes they wear. Plus the various religions which require women to be 'modest' to a greater or lesser degree since men couldn't possibly be expected to control themselves at the sight of an ankle or whatever. Yes, that is a huge simplification and I'm aware there are other arguments for religious modesty but the Madonna/whore belief certainly plays a part in it. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
""Where such men love, they have no desire,and where they desire, they cannot love"
Thats what the main man said.
My question is, why?
Ooo that's a very different take on it. I'll have to ponder that
I think I'd point back to Esther Perez. Her book forwards the hypothesis that love seeks union with the other but eroticism thrives on the exciting difference of the other. She attributed this to both genders, arguing that many relationships dry up because the impulse of love destroys any of the tantalisingly erotic foreigness of each other. We become commonplace objects in each other's lives.
She recommended that healthy long term relationships should maintain a bit of mystery and resist the urge to morph from two distinct and intriguing lovers into one unit. Otherwise one or other party may end up looking elsewhere for that exciting erotic otherness.
Isn't this what you're getting at? "
I wasnt getting at anything. I was just quoting Freud, and putting it out there for discussion, as its a subject I am reading about.
I'm interested in people's opinions, which is why I havent proffered my own |
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Baffles me that attitude still exists. Especially on here where it's pretty rife.
Surely you can be both? It's a lazy assumption that those 'whores' who brazenly adore sex aren't capable of fulfilling the 'Madonna' role. There's plenty of fabulous couples on here who certainly prove the either/or theory wrong
And funnily enough, Madonna the pop star has managed to be both a sexualised slut and a Mother. So, yeah |
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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago
the right frame of mind -London |
To add my two cents..
Is this not just a societal/ evolutionary construct that only matters to those that put weight to the words?
Without getting into the morals of the issue, I see it as a development/ expression of primal urges...
In evolutionary terms, men have an advantage to spreading their seed far and wide so as to produce as many offspring as posible so that they will in tern help protect and provide for said man when he is no longer able to maintain his role as hunter/ warrior / provider.
Conversely, women have an advantage in maintaining the loyalty of a single partner -primarily because they can only bear one man's child at a time and need a protector to guard the survival of themselves and their offspring (both through pregnancy and beyond). So having relationships with more than one man at a time creates problems for said woman when she wants to prove that the children she bears are related to the father/ protector.
Simply put, when you wind this forward a couple of million years, the primal urges get replaced with all sorts of moral codes and labels that we react to instinctively -how you decide to deconstruct this and move forward with your own moral code is entirely up to the individual interpretation (i.e is a whore a good or bad thing and is it applicable to either or both genders). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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""Where such men love, they have no desire,and where they desire, they cannot love"
Thats what the main man said.
My question is, why?
Is it some sort of repressed emotion, like the early church suffered. The women they want filthy sex with remind them too much they arè nothing but wanton lustful creatures and have been led astray. They cannot love them out of guilt of enjoying themselves.
The lovely wives are to be revered as mothers to their children and partners in their lives, not to be sullied with dirty thoughts and actions. There is no desire as they have to take on other more innocent roles.
All on a very basic subconcious level of course
Isnt this why early priests shunned woman, they couldn't trust themselves around the woman so blamed the woman for their lack of control.
"
This happened to me. An ex admitted he was avoiding me (he'd only communicate via text and wouldn't meet me in person) because he said he couldn't trust himself around me as he couldn't resist me. It made me feel so crap but maybe I should feel empowered or flattered? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Baffles me that attitude still exists. Especially on here where it's pretty rife.
Surely you can be both? It's a lazy assumption that those 'whores' who brazenly adore sex aren't capable of fulfilling the 'Madonna' role. There's plenty of fabulous couples on here who certainly prove the either/or theory wrong
And funnily enough, Madonna the pop star has managed to be both a sexualised slut and a Mother. So, yeah"
Good point about the happy couples. Some men do appreciate that women can be both. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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""Where such men love, they have no desire,and where they desire, they cannot love"
Thats what the main man said.
My question is, why?"
Did you see that in breakout kings btw ? The scene at the restaurant ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Surely the women on this thread saying they have both sides are missing the point?
Doesn't the Madonna/whore issue come down to either how you come across? i.e refined/slapper. Meaning that some men will happily have sex with a woman who comes across as having no/low selection criteria but want to date a woman with a high selection criteria as they perceive more value to attaining that, which reflects better on them.
Or it relates to the issue of being unable to both love a woman and desire her and so seeking one for love and another for desire? In which case I would suggest this points to the conflict between the desire for union through love and the intoxicating eroticism of the other i.e that in Freud's time, as now, people in relationships can turn them into super vanilla pragmatic relations to the point of draining any erotic excitement mystery and vitality out of them... and that, in such instances men seek to maintain their family but desire the mystery of others.
To say you contain both Madonna and whore misses the point as most men would quite happily date such a woman if she appears to have a high selection criteria. The Madonna/whore thing points to something different from that. Doesn't it? Hmm confused but trying to explore it more deeply |
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