FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Is a pure democracy the best form of government?
Is a pure democracy the best form of government?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Rather than an established one? I think it is, cos it allows for a government run completely by the people, for the people, how would the country look if it was I wonder? Maybe a better one as the people might have better solutions and ideas  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Best of the available forms. Doesn't make it good though. Bottomline - People are complex creatures. Societies are even more complex. When you take a country with millions of people, it is hard to have a government that satisfies everyone. Every action you take will be good for some group of people and bad for others.
At least on paper, the advantage of democracy is that if people do not like a government, they can change it during elections without having to resort to violence or revolution.
In an authoritarian government, the only way to change the government would be to start a revolution that will inevitably lead to loss of lives. An advantage of authoritarian government though is stability. If an authoritarian government really cares about the people, they can make long term plans which could benefit the country as opposed to a democratic system where most of the actions are short sighted keeping the next elections in mind.
This is the reason why China becoming a superpower was inevitable. They are making plans ten years ahead of time. While they were planning and executing fast leading way to rapid development, western democracies were slowed down by democratic processes.
Still I would personally prefer a country with freedom even if it comes at the cost of losing competition with China. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Best of the available forms. Doesn't make it good though. Bottomline - People are complex creatures. Societies are even more complex. When you take a country with millions of people, it is hard to have a government that satisfies everyone. Every action you take will be good for some group of people and bad for others.
At least on paper, the advantage of democracy is that if people do not like a government, they can change it during elections without having to resort to violence or revolution.
In an authoritarian government, the only way to change the government would be to start a revolution that will inevitably lead to loss of lives. An advantage of authoritarian government though is stability. If an authoritarian government really cares about the people, they can make long term plans which could benefit the country as opposed to a democratic system where most of the actions are short sighted keeping the next elections in mind.
This is the reason why China becoming a superpower was inevitable. They are making plans ten years ahead of time. While they were planning and executing fast leading way to rapid development, western democracies were slowed down by democratic processes.
Still I would personally prefer a country with freedom even if it comes at the cost of losing competition with China."
Yes . I also wonder if there are or have been a country with a pure democracy before? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Rather than an established one? I think it is, cos it allows for a government run completely by the people, for the people, how would the country look if it was I wonder? Maybe a better one as the people might have better solutions and ideas "
Not really as the average person does not have a clue of just how many issues there are running a country as they all see it from their own angle |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Rather than an established one? I think it is, cos it allows for a government run completely by the people, for the people, how would the country look if it was I wonder? Maybe a better one as the people might have better solutions and ideas
Not really as the average person does not have a clue of just how many issues there are running a country as they all see it from their own angle "
That is right too but still have some that knows abit about it too, take trump for example he is not an politician, just a business man. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Rather than an established one? I think it is, cos it allows for a government run completely by the people, for the people, how would the country look if it was I wonder? Maybe a better one as the people might have better solutions and ideas
Not really as the average person does not have a clue of just how many issues there are running a country as they all see it from their own angle "
That’s why you don’t have just one person but a parliament worth. Do you think any one career politicians has a clue? |
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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago
Dubai / Nottingham |
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In an authoritarian government, the only way to change the government would be to start a revolution that will inevitably lead to loss of lives. An advantage of authoritarian government though is stability. If an authoritarian government really cares about the people, they can make long term plans which could benefit the country as opposed to a democratic system where most of the actions are short sighted keeping the next elections in mind.
"
This is exactly why UAE has been so successful, 3-4 generations of one family over 50 years with a single unselfish vision to serve and better the lives of the people, unlike other Arab states in the Middle East that have fallen into cycles of revolutions, civil wars and chaos as each new regime change does exactly what the last one did.
Different countries need different types of government and it changes over time. The biggest complaint I hear in Nigeria is that we gave independent too soon, they were still learning from us and needed another 20-30 years before being ready for democracy.
Federalism with control delegated locally seems to be the natural successor to our style of democracy as it removes power from Parliament , but we rejected it and chose right wing libertarianism instead.
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"Rather than an established one? I think it is, cos it allows for a government run completely by the people, for the people, how would the country look if it was I wonder? Maybe a better one as the people might have better solutions and ideas "
I think the Swiss use something like this. Maybe not fully but they have a lot of referendums deciding things |
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"Rather than an established one? I think it is, cos it allows for a government run completely by the people, for the people, how would the country look if it was I wonder? Maybe a better one as the people might have better solutions and ideas "
Is that where a lieing scroat convinces a minority of the population to allow him to wreck the country ? |
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"Another 36 lords announced to add to the 1200 we already have.
That is just a joke. "
Boris brother..Teresa May's husband a leading brexiteer.
When they said they wanted to reform the lords..was it ti make it even more corrupt,? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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And Churchill declared war on Germany, dragging western Europe and countless lives lost into what was essentially an eastern conflict between the great isms of the 20th century. |
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"And Churchill declared war on Germany, dragging western Europe and countless lives lost into what was essentially an eastern conflict between the great isms of the 20th century."
Germany and russia were not at war in 1939 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Im for moving towards a purer “Athenian” democracy. “Representation” democracy is not working. It’s become a cesspool of career politicians only looking out for themselves. I say no more elections but a random “golden ticket” draw where any citizen can be chosen. They, along with the other 200-500 golden ticket winners get to be in government for 5 years max. Pay them well and have a new small batch retire/ come in every year. Yes there will be idiotic people who get in but that is why you have a whole bunch of people to average out the idiots. No more party politics.  |
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The entire system is broke..politics,the media,corruption,political apathy,that whole charade in the house of commons is embarrassing (dont they have a completely different in Scotland?)
But it's going to take something cataclysmic to change it. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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There is an interesting meaning to what democracy actually means, it comes from greek and the first part of the demo means people and the other cracy which is means rule, so another translation of democracy is "People rule" |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Rather than an established one? I think it is, cos it allows for a government run completely by the people, for the people, how would the country look if it was I wonder? Maybe a better one as the people might have better solutions and ideas "
There would be mass fighting in the streets,people would just turn on each other,most not capable of having a proper conversation |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Rather than an established one? I think it is, cos it allows for a government run completely by the people, for the people, how would the country look if it was I wonder? Maybe a better one as the people might have better solutions and ideas There would be mass fighting in the streets,people would just turn on each other,most not capable of having a proper conversation"
Thank God the fab forums are nothing like that!  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And Churchill declared war on Germany, dragging western Europe and countless lives lost into what was essentially an eastern conflict between the great isms of the 20th century.
Germany and russia were not at war in 1939"
Your point being? Do you honestly believe the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact was to remain intact? |
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"And Churchill declared war on Germany, dragging western Europe and countless lives lost into what was essentially an eastern conflict between the great isms of the 20th century.
Germany and russia were not at war in 1939
Your point being? Do you honestly believe the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact was to remain intact? "
No but you seem to be implying it was an eastern conflict? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Based on the Brexit vote, nope it's not the best way here. so democracy only works when the vote goes your way then brilliant lol"
The problem with the Brexit vote was it exposed the weakness in such votes. ie the voting public can be misled into voting against their interests where there isn't sufficient scrutiny and fact-checking. |
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"Based on the Brexit vote, nope it's not the best way here. so democracy only works when the vote goes your way then brilliant lol
The problem with the Brexit vote was it exposed the weakness in such votes. ie the voting public can be misled into voting against their interests where there isn't sufficient scrutiny and fact-checking. "
aw you mean the same with a general election aswell should we only let the clever well educated vote then ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Based on the Brexit vote, nope it's not the best way here. so democracy only works when the vote goes your way then brilliant lol
The problem with the Brexit vote was it exposed the weakness in such votes. ie the voting public can be misled into voting against their interests where there isn't sufficient scrutiny and fact-checking. aw you mean the same with a general election aswell should we only let the clever well educated vote then ?"
Not what I said at all. We should have a decent news system that actually informs us of the facts and highlights lies.
Wouldn't you rather vote based on facts and reality? |
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"Based on the Brexit vote, nope it's not the best way here. so democracy only works when the vote goes your way then brilliant lol
The problem with the Brexit vote was it exposed the weakness in such votes. ie the voting public can be misled into voting against their interests where there isn't sufficient scrutiny and fact-checking. aw you mean the same with a general election aswell should we only let the clever well educated vote then ?"
Probably not a bad idea that |
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"Based on the Brexit vote, nope it's not the best way here. so democracy only works when the vote goes your way then brilliant lol
The problem with the Brexit vote was it exposed the weakness in such votes. ie the voting public can be misled into voting against their interests where there isn't sufficient scrutiny and fact-checking. aw you mean the same with a general election aswell should we only let the clever well educated vote then ?
Not what I said at all. We should have a decent news system that actually informs us of the facts and highlights lies.
Wouldn't you rather vote based on facts and reality?"
the fact is there’s never been more news and information out there than there is now |
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"Based on the Brexit vote, nope it's not the best way here. so democracy only works when the vote goes your way then brilliant lol
The problem with the Brexit vote was it exposed the weakness in such votes. ie the voting public can be misled into voting against their interests where there isn't sufficient scrutiny and fact-checking. aw you mean the same with a general election aswell should we only let the clever well educated vote then ?
Probably not a bad idea that "
and there goes democracy then why stop there maybe only ppl who went to public school and have a degree |
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"Based on the Brexit vote, nope it's not the best way here. so democracy only works when the vote goes your way then brilliant lol
The problem with the Brexit vote was it exposed the weakness in such votes. ie the voting public can be misled into voting against their interests where there isn't sufficient scrutiny and fact-checking. aw you mean the same with a general election aswell should we only let the clever well educated vote then ?
Not what I said at all. We should have a decent news system that actually informs us of the facts and highlights lies.
Wouldn't you rather vote based on facts and reality?the fact is there’s never been more news and information out there than there is now "
And most of it is extremely biased.
You camt have referendum for everything.politiciana are elected to make those decisions |
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By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Rather than an established one? I think it is, cos it allows for a government run completely by the people, for the people, how would the country look if it was I wonder? Maybe a better one as the people might have better solutions and ideas "
It's a nice idea in theory but looking at how last referendum has divided us all I'm not so sure. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I've never lived in a democracy.
This setup in the UK may claim to be democratic but is more like state capture. It's closer to a feudal system where Lords and serfs have been replaced by Corporations and employees. Yes we have elections, but our votes are determined by information from news media owned by the same billionaires who own our politicians. Government decisions are not in favour of the people, but 9f the privileged few.
So yeah. Pure democracy? I just want to see democracy. |
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By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"I've never lived in a democracy.
This setup in the UK may claim to be democratic but is more like state capture. It's closer to a feudal system where Lords and serfs have been replaced by Corporations and employees. Yes we have elections, but our votes are determined by information from news media owned by the same billionaires who own our politicians. Government decisions are not in favour of the people, but 9f the privileged few.
So yeah. Pure democracy? I just want to see democracy. "
When you say pure democracy do you also mean referendums on everything? |
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"I've never lived in a democracy.
This setup in the UK may claim to be democratic but is more like state capture. It's closer to a feudal system where Lords and serfs have been replaced by Corporations and employees. Yes we have elections, but our votes are determined by information from news media owned by the same billionaires who own our politicians. Government decisions are not in favour of the people, but 9f the privileged few.
So yeah. Pure democracy? I just want to see democracy. "
Spot on |
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"I've never lived in a democracy.
This setup in the UK may claim to be democratic but is more like state capture. It's closer to a feudal system where Lords and serfs have been replaced by Corporations and employees. Yes we have elections, but our votes are determined by information from news media owned by the same billionaires who own our politicians. Government decisions are not in favour of the people, but 9f the privileged few.
So yeah. Pure democracy? I just want to see democracy.
Spot on"
so you all live in a democratic country and all moaning about it lol couldn’t make it up just great we’re would yous all like to live then ? |
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"I've never lived in a democracy.
This setup in the UK may claim to be democratic but is more like state capture. It's closer to a feudal system where Lords and serfs have been replaced by Corporations and employees. Yes we have elections, but our votes are determined by information from news media owned by the same billionaires who own our politicians. Government decisions are not in favour of the people, but 9f the privileged few.
So yeah. Pure democracy? I just want to see democracy.
Spot on so you all live in a democratic country and all moaning about it lol couldn’t make it up just great we’re would yous all like to live then ?"
You realise this is a forum? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I've never lived in a democracy.
This setup in the UK may claim to be democratic but is more like state capture. It's closer to a feudal system where Lords and serfs have been replaced by Corporations and employees. Yes we have elections, but our votes are determined by information from news media owned by the same billionaires who own our politicians. Government decisions are not in favour of the people, but 9f the privileged few.
So yeah. Pure democracy? I just want to see democracy.
Spot on so you all live in a democratic country and all moaning about it lol couldn’t make it up just great we’re would yous all like to live then ?"
If you think the UK is a genuine democracy then I advise you to watch "Saving Capitalism" by Robert Reich. In the movie JFK James Garrison says "When a government lies to it's own people, it ceases to be a democracy". How many times has our government contradicted itself? In a true democracy Dominic Cummings would be behind bars. This is a country ruled by the rich and powerful and controlled by the rich and powerful. It is one of yhe richest countries on earth but a huge percentage of it's people live on the breadline.
Right now the self employed citizens of this country are dreading the Autumn Budget because those same people who were left out in the cold with Covid-19 are going to be expected to foot the bill. All this while Boris's rich friends have grown wealthier from Covid-19.
In the end there will be no hope for the common man. There will be employees who have to accept what they are paid with no other choice and billionaires... with no middle ground to speak of.
How does this scenario differ from the feudal system of old?
The sad thing is that the victims of this system are the ones so vehemently fighting to keep it in place.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I've never lived in a democracy.
This setup in the UK may claim to be democratic but is more like state capture. It's closer to a feudal system where Lords and serfs have been replaced by Corporations and employees. Yes we have elections, but our votes are determined by information from news media owned by the same billionaires who own our politicians. Government decisions are not in favour of the people, but 9f the privileged few.
So yeah. Pure democracy? I just want to see democracy.
Spot on so you all live in a democratic country and all moaning about it lol couldn’t make it up just great we’re would yous all like to live then ?
You realise this is a forum?"
In a democracy, it seems you need to shut up and do what you're told.
Kind of proves my point... |
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By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"I've never lived in a democracy.
This setup in the UK may claim to be democratic but is more like state capture. It's closer to a feudal system where Lords and serfs have been replaced by Corporations and employees. Yes we have elections, but our votes are determined by information from news media owned by the same billionaires who own our politicians. Government decisions are not in favour of the people, but 9f the privileged few.
So yeah. Pure democracy? I just want to see democracy.
Spot on so you all live in a democratic country and all moaning about it lol couldn’t make it up just great we’re would yous all like to live then ?
If you think the UK is a genuine democracy then I advise you to watch "Saving Capitalism" by Robert Reich. In the movie JFK James Garrison says "When a government lies to it's own people, it ceases to be a democracy". How many times has our government contradicted itself? In a true democracy Dominic Cummings would be behind bars. This is a country ruled by the rich and powerful and controlled by the rich and powerful. It is one of yhe richest countries on earth but a huge percentage of it's people live on the breadline.
Right now the self employed citizens of this country are dreading the Autumn Budget because those same people who were left out in the cold with Covid-19 are going to be expected to foot the bill. All this while Boris's rich friends have grown wealthier from Covid-19.
In the end there will be no hope for the common man. There will be employees who have to accept what they are paid with no other choice and billionaires... with no middle ground to speak of.
How does this scenario differ from the feudal system of old?
The sad thing is that the victims of this system are the ones so vehemently fighting to keep it in place.
"
What sort of system would achieve this |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I've never lived in a democracy.
This setup in the UK may claim to be democratic but is more like state capture. It's closer to a feudal system where Lords and serfs have been replaced by Corporations and employees. Yes we have elections, but our votes are determined by information from news media owned by the same billionaires who own our politicians. Government decisions are not in favour of the people, but 9f the privileged few.
So yeah. Pure democracy? I just want to see democracy.
Spot on so you all live in a democratic country and all moaning about it lol couldn’t make it up just great we’re would yous all like to live then ?
If you think the UK is a genuine democracy then I advise you to watch "Saving Capitalism" by Robert Reich. In the movie JFK James Garrison says "When a government lies to it's own people, it ceases to be a democracy". How many times has our government contradicted itself? In a true democracy Dominic Cummings would be behind bars. This is a country ruled by the rich and powerful and controlled by the rich and powerful. It is one of yhe richest countries on earth but a huge percentage of it's people live on the breadline.
Right now the self employed citizens of this country are dreading the Autumn Budget because those same people who were left out in the cold with Covid-19 are going to be expected to foot the bill. All this while Boris's rich friends have grown wealthier from Covid-19.
In the end there will be no hope for the common man. There will be employees who have to accept what they are paid with no other choice and billionaires... with no middle ground to speak of.
How does this scenario differ from the feudal system of old?
The sad thing is that the victims of this system are the ones so vehemently fighting to keep it in place.
What sort of system would achieve this"
We used to have a system of checks and balances to ensure that political parties were funded by the people they represent and not paid by corporations and wealthy individuals. The laws have been changed under our noses and today we have politicians employed by the same companies they are supposed to be regulating. Strangely the man on the street doesn't care about this... doesn't see the conflict of interest.
But then the headlines of our newspapers are telling us that the cause of our problems are foreigners and the benefit cheat next door.
But do you expect Rupert Murdoch and Jonathan Harmsworth to reveal the truth about themselves in their own news media?
Fab is a microcosm of UK society. Swingers are not given the freedom experienced in much more conservative countries, a policy of our government. We are victimised and scandalised by the Sun and Daily Mail... you'd think as Swingers that we'd support a more liberal government and read a newspaper that didn't put our faces unpixelised on their Monday morning centerfold.... but you'd be wrong. We've been drinking the cool-aid all our lives. |
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By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"I've never lived in a democracy.
This setup in the UK may claim to be democratic but is more like state capture. It's closer to a feudal system where Lords and serfs have been replaced by Corporations and employees. Yes we have elections, but our votes are determined by information from news media owned by the same billionaires who own our politicians. Government decisions are not in favour of the people, but 9f the privileged few.
So yeah. Pure democracy? I just want to see democracy.
Spot on so you all live in a democratic country and all moaning about it lol couldn’t make it up just great we’re would yous all like to live then ?
If you think the UK is a genuine democracy then I advise you to watch "Saving Capitalism" by Robert Reich. In the movie JFK James Garrison says "When a government lies to it's own people, it ceases to be a democracy". How many times has our government contradicted itself? In a true democracy Dominic Cummings would be behind bars. This is a country ruled by the rich and powerful and controlled by the rich and powerful. It is one of yhe richest countries on earth but a huge percentage of it's people live on the breadline.
Right now the self employed citizens of this country are dreading the Autumn Budget because those same people who were left out in the cold with Covid-19 are going to be expected to foot the bill. All this while Boris's rich friends have grown wealthier from Covid-19.
In the end there will be no hope for the common man. There will be employees who have to accept what they are paid with no other choice and billionaires... with no middle ground to speak of.
How does this scenario differ from the feudal system of old?
The sad thing is that the victims of this system are the ones so vehemently fighting to keep it in place.
What sort of system would achieve this
We used to have a system of checks and balances to ensure that political parties were funded by the people they represent and not paid by corporations and wealthy individuals. The laws have been changed under our noses and today we have politicians employed by the same companies they are supposed to be regulating. Strangely the man on the street doesn't care about this... doesn't see the conflict of interest.
But then the headlines of our newspapers are telling us that the cause of our problems are foreigners and the benefit cheat next door.
But do you expect Rupert Murdoch and Jonathan Harmsworth to reveal the truth about themselves in their own news media?
Fab is a microcosm of UK society. Swingers are not given the freedom experienced in much more conservative countries, a policy of our government. We are victimised and scandalised by the Sun and Daily Mail... you'd think as Swingers that we'd support a more liberal government and read a newspaper that didn't put our faces unpixelised on their Monday morning centerfold.... but you'd be wrong. We've been drinking the cool-aid all our lives. "
That's a list of complaints about the current system and with some interesting and valid points. But what should replace it. Is there a country to use as an example |
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I think the issue Is quite deep rooted.I don't think there has ever been a'golden age'but its ironic as many go on about the dunkirk spirit, it was actually the post war era where we made the most progress.We were still a capitalist economy(we still made stuff)but at the same time, the welfare state was built.It was a time of consensual politics and community still existed.
I know it's a different era now but the gap in inequality is stratospheric,we live in a dog each dog consumerist society and many people simply work to exist.
Compare us to the likes of the scandi countries or even the likes of Germany.
Maybe it's a cultural thing?
Dunno if this ties in with the type of democracy we have, but while we continue to live in such a system the likes of the media and the gmnt are certainly not going to challenge it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Based on the Brexit vote, nope it's not the best way here. so democracy only works when the vote goes your way then brilliant lol
The problem with the Brexit vote was it exposed the weakness in such votes. ie the voting public can be misled into voting against their interests where there isn't sufficient scrutiny and fact-checking. aw you mean the same with a general election aswell should we only let the clever well educated vote then ?
Not what I said at all. We should have a decent news system that actually informs us of the facts and highlights lies.
Wouldn't you rather vote based on facts and reality?the fact is there’s never been more news and information out there than there is now "
So would you rather vote based on facts and reality? I notice you haven't come close to answering that question.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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(More news and information doesn't equate to better news. It only makes the problem I already alluded to even worse. As I already said, we need a better news system.) |
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"(More news and information doesn't equate to better news. It only makes the problem I already alluded to even worse. As I already said, we need a better news system.)"
so less news and less information then ? Was the leaflet delivered to every household in the U.K. by the tory goverment before the vote asking ppl to vote to remain better information then ?
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By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
"Based on the Brexit vote, nope it's not the best way here. so democracy only works when the vote goes your way then brilliant lol
The problem with the Brexit vote was it exposed the weakness in such votes. ie the voting public can be misled into voting against their interests where there isn't sufficient scrutiny and fact-checking. aw you mean the same with a general election aswell should we only let the clever well educated vote then ?
Not what I said at all. We should have a decent news system that actually informs us of the facts and highlights lies.
Wouldn't you rather vote based on facts and reality?"
wont happen every news show we have is either pro left or pro right so you would never get facts without some sort of slant to it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And Churchill declared war on Germany, dragging western Europe and countless lives lost into what was essentially an eastern conflict between the great isms of the 20th century.
Germany and russia were not at war in 1939
Your point being? Do you honestly believe the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact was to remain intact?
No but you seem to be implying it was an eastern conflict?"
It most certainly was an Eastern conflict. After the October Revolution, a war between Bolshevism and fascism was inevitable and any historian or archivist worth his salt would not argue this point.
Germany turned West because Churchill declared war on Germany for annexing Poland. You might ask why we didn't also declare war on Russia if the reasoning behind our declaration was the partitioning of Poland. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"(More news and information doesn't equate to better news. It only makes the problem I already alluded to even worse. As I already said, we need a better news system.) so less news and less information then ? Was the leaflet delivered to every household in the U.K. by the tory goverment before the vote asking ppl to vote to remain better information then ? "
It's amazing you're still ignoring the question. All I asked was if you want to vote based on facts and reality. I'm guessing by this point you don't care about facts or reality. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Based on the Brexit vote, nope it's not the best way here. so democracy only works when the vote goes your way then brilliant lol
The problem with the Brexit vote was it exposed the weakness in such votes. ie the voting public can be misled into voting against their interests where there isn't sufficient scrutiny and fact-checking. aw you mean the same with a general election aswell should we only let the clever well educated vote then ?
Not what I said at all. We should have a decent news system that actually informs us of the facts and highlights lies.
Wouldn't you rather vote based on facts and reality?
wont happen every news show we have is either pro left or pro right so you would never get facts without some sort of slant to it"
That's why scrutiny and fact checking are so important. I did already say this. You're rather proving my point for me. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"so still lots of reasons not to like the current system but still not heard what people want to replace it with"
Democracy's the best form of government we currently have. (As far as I know.)
But , as I've said several times now, it's crucial to have scrutiny and fact checking. Without those things, democracy is too easily manipulated by the powerful and rich. |
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By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"so still lots of reasons not to like the current system but still not heard what people want to replace it with
Democracy's the best form of government we currently have. (As far as I know.)
But , as I've said several times now, it's crucial to have scrutiny and fact checking. Without those things, democracy is too easily manipulated by the powerful and rich."
yes think most would agree democracy is best but whats pure democracy? sounds like most want to stay as we are but with a few more checks.some things are opinion so fact checking is not always possible |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"so still lots of reasons not to like the current system but still not heard what people want to replace it with
Democracy's the best form of government we currently have. (As far as I know.)
But , as I've said several times now, it's crucial to have scrutiny and fact checking. Without those things, democracy is too easily manipulated by the powerful and rich.
yes think most would agree democracy is best but whats pure democracy? sounds like most want to stay as we are but with a few more checks.some things are opinion so fact checking is not always possible"
Fact checking is always possible. You can fact check an opinion.
eg Person A says: "I believe cats have 10 legs."
After checking the facts, this can be proved to be false. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Fact checking can result in eg "based on the evidence, this is uncertain." But that's hardly a reason not to check facts. The alternative is to let public figures state any old bollocks and get away with it. |
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By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"so still lots of reasons not to like the current system but still not heard what people want to replace it with
Democracy's the best form of government we currently have. (As far as I know.)
But , as I've said several times now, it's crucial to have scrutiny and fact checking. Without those things, democracy is too easily manipulated by the powerful and rich.
yes think most would agree democracy is best but whats pure democracy? sounds like most want to stay as we are but with a few more checks.some things are opinion so fact checking is not always possible
Fact checking is always possible. You can fact check an opinion.
eg Person A says: "I believe cats have 10 legs."
After checking the facts, this can be proved to be false."
lol thats not an opinion or at least not what i was meaning. is the weather too hot today? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"so still lots of reasons not to like the current system but still not heard what people want to replace it with
Democracy's the best form of government we currently have. (As far as I know.)
But , as I've said several times now, it's crucial to have scrutiny and fact checking. Without those things, democracy is too easily manipulated by the powerful and rich.
yes think most would agree democracy is best but whats pure democracy? sounds like most want to stay as we are but with a few more checks.some things are opinion so fact checking is not always possible
Fact checking is always possible. You can fact check an opinion.
eg Person A says: "I believe cats have 10 legs."
After checking the facts, this can be proved to be false.
lol thats not an opinion or at least not what i was meaning. is the weather too hot today?"
See my last reply. Even if fact checking doesn't produce a binary yes or no in certain circumstances, that absolutely does not discount its importance. |
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By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"so still lots of reasons not to like the current system but still not heard what people want to replace it with
Democracy's the best form of government we currently have. (As far as I know.)
But , as I've said several times now, it's crucial to have scrutiny and fact checking. Without those things, democracy is too easily manipulated by the powerful and rich.
yes think most would agree democracy is best but whats pure democracy? sounds like most want to stay as we are but with a few more checks.some things are opinion so fact checking is not always possible
Fact checking is always possible. You can fact check an opinion.
eg Person A says: "I believe cats have 10 legs."
After checking the facts, this can be proved to be false.
lol thats not an opinion or at least not what i was meaning. is the weather too hot today?
See my last reply. Even if fact checking doesn't produce a binary yes or no in certain circumstances, that absolutely does not discount its importance."
you have some scary cats around you then |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"so still lots of reasons not to like the current system but still not heard what people want to replace it with
Democracy's the best form of government we currently have. (As far as I know.)
But , as I've said several times now, it's crucial to have scrutiny and fact checking. Without those things, democracy is too easily manipulated by the powerful and rich.
yes think most would agree democracy is best but whats pure democracy? sounds like most want to stay as we are but with a few more checks.some things are opinion so fact checking is not always possible
Fact checking is always possible. You can fact check an opinion.
eg Person A says: "I believe cats have 10 legs."
After checking the facts, this can be proved to be false.
lol thats not an opinion or at least not what i was meaning. is the weather too hot today?
See my last reply. Even if fact checking doesn't produce a binary yes or no in certain circumstances, that absolutely does not discount its importance.
you have some scary cats around you then"
They're terrifying! Tentacles and everything! |
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By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"so still lots of reasons not to like the current system but still not heard what people want to replace it with
Democracy's the best form of government we currently have. (As far as I know.)
But , as I've said several times now, it's crucial to have scrutiny and fact checking. Without those things, democracy is too easily manipulated by the powerful and rich.
yes think most would agree democracy is best but whats pure democracy? sounds like most want to stay as we are but with a few more checks.some things are opinion so fact checking is not always possible
Fact checking is always possible. You can fact check an opinion.
eg Person A says: "I believe cats have 10 legs."
After checking the facts, this can be proved to be false.
lol thats not an opinion or at least not what i was meaning. is the weather too hot today?
See my last reply. Even if fact checking doesn't produce a binary yes or no in certain circumstances, that absolutely does not discount its importance.
you have some scary cats around you then
They're terrifying! Tentacles and everything!"
sounds like it. must find one to see if this fact checking works |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
I think it’s a bit like asking turkeys to vote for Christmas in asking the rich elite to give up power.
How can one school Eton produce so many prime ministers if there is not route laid out for them? As a random calculation on equality what are the odds on that?
I suspect before when politicians messed up And we’re caught lying we expected them to and and they would resign.
They would quietly retire to the lords but appear to do the right thing.
Today they just shrug their shoulders and say so what?
Boris and his government must definitely be stacking up the most lies ever but we have no mechanism to hold them to account .
Yes we say we can vote them out but if I lie at work or claim expenses fraudulently I get sacked and prosecuted. MPs can pay the money back and claim to be doing the right thing the thriving bastards! They may lose their seat but will get nice pension and a seat on some company board .
I think we have lost accountability of our government totally and with the media being so well controlled we have no idea of the truth.
I personally think the U.K. form of government is old fashioned and unable to cope with the modern world .
Reform is needed but it will be called revolution so what chance is there to change.
Sorry to say but even without Brexit we have been heading down in our ability to compete in the world.
Education (lots more) and freedom of truth with regulated media Ownership are desperately needed.
. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"I think it’s a bit like asking turkeys to vote for Christmas in asking the rich elite to give up power.
How can one school Eton produce so many prime ministers if there is not route laid out for them? As a random calculation on equality what are the odds on that?
I suspect before when politicians messed up And we’re caught lying we expected them to and and they would resign.
They would quietly retire to the lords but appear to do the right thing.
Today they just shrug their shoulders and say so what?
Boris and his government must definitely be stacking up the most lies ever but we have no mechanism to hold them to account .
Yes we say we can vote them out but if I lie at work or claim expenses fraudulently I get sacked and prosecuted. MPs can pay the money back and claim to be doing the right thing the thriving bastards! They may lose their seat but will get nice pension and a seat on some company board .
I think we have lost accountability of our government totally and with the media being so well controlled we have no idea of the truth.
I personally think the U.K. form of government is old fashioned and unable to cope with the modern world .
Reform is needed but it will be called revolution so what chance is there to change.
Sorry to say but even without Brexit we have been heading down in our ability to compete in the world.
Education (lots more) and freedom of truth with regulated media Ownership are desperately needed.
. "
Correction MP‘a are thieving bastards!
Having said that, cutbacks everywhere In society but in parliament they just keep spending and adding more people so maybe a Freudian slip. |
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By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
"We also needs rules and laws that actually hold the rulers and the rich to account. Currently, they seem to do whatever they want."
what do you mean currently. they have done what they like for as long as i can remember and probably before i can remember.its not a new thing politicians feathering there own nests and fuck everyone else |
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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
Democratic government has been weakened and is still being undermined. The rules have not kept up with the game. Social Media has allowed for arms length unaccountable campaigning and the flood of dark money has destroyed transparency and accountability.
10 years ago there was outrage over Liam Fox, 5 years ago. The Brexit campaign bent the electoral spending rules. The Conservative party is now 100% owned by Russia and nobody wants to know
The same playbook has been used around the world and seen the undermining of democracy and the rise of far right authoritarianism in the UK, USA, Poland, Brazil and Hungary. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Democratic government has been weakened and is still being undermined. The rules have not kept up with the game. Social Media has allowed for arms length unaccountable campaigning and the flood of dark money has destroyed transparency and accountability.
10 years ago there was outrage over Liam Fox, 5 years ago. The Brexit campaign bent the electoral spending rules. The Conservative party is now 100% owned by Russia and nobody wants to know
The same playbook has been used around the world and seen the undermining of democracy and the rise of far right authoritarianism in the UK, USA, Poland, Brazil and Hungary."
The fact the Russia report fiasco has been brushed aside by so many people is ridiculous. It was, and is, a huge scandal. |
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"Rather than an established one? I think it is, cos it allows for a government run completely by the people, for the people, how would the country look if it was I wonder? Maybe a better one as the people might have better solutions and ideas "
The very best government is probably a benevolent dictatorship? However the two words never seem to go together? So I suppose it's best to stick to what somewhat chaotically works? |
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"Democratic government has been weakened and is still being undermined. The rules have not kept up with the game. Social Media has allowed for arms length unaccountable campaigning and the flood of dark money has destroyed transparency and accountability.
10 years ago there was outrage over Liam Fox, 5 years ago. The Brexit campaign bent the electoral spending rules. The Conservative party is now 100% owned by Russia and nobody wants to know
The same playbook has been used around the world and seen the undermining of democracy and the rise of far right authoritarianism in the UK, USA, Poland, Brazil and Hungary.
The fact the Russia report fiasco has been brushed aside by so many people is ridiculous. It was, and is, a huge scandal."
People simply dont care.
Apathy is the best tool the powerful can ever have.
No wonder they domt teach politics at school. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Democratic government has been weakened and is still being undermined. The rules have not kept up with the game. Social Media has allowed for arms length unaccountable campaigning and the flood of dark money has destroyed transparency and accountability.
10 years ago there was outrage over Liam Fox, 5 years ago. The Brexit campaign bent the electoral spending rules. The Conservative party is now 100% owned by Russia and nobody wants to know
The same playbook has been used around the world and seen the undermining of democracy and the rise of far right authoritarianism in the UK, USA, Poland, Brazil and Hungary.
The fact the Russia report fiasco has been brushed aside by so many people is ridiculous. It was, and is, a huge scandal.
People simply dont care.
Apathy is the best tool the powerful can ever have.
No wonder they domt teach politics at school. "
We're as blind as we can be
Just see what we want to see...
Or something like that...  |
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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
"Democratic government has been weakened and is still being undermined. The rules have not kept up with the game. Social Media has allowed for arms length unaccountable campaigning and the flood of dark money has destroyed transparency and accountability.
10 years ago there was outrage over Liam Fox, 5 years ago. The Brexit campaign bent the electoral spending rules. The Conservative party is now 100% owned by Russia and nobody wants to know
The same playbook has been used around the world and seen the undermining of democracy and the rise of far right authoritarianism in the UK, USA, Poland, Brazil and Hungary.
The fact the Russia report fiasco has been brushed aside by so many people is ridiculous. It was, and is, a huge scandal.
People simply dont care.
Apathy is the best tool the powerful can ever have.
No wonder they domt teach politics at school. "
Apathy is just a symptom, people are worn down by ceaseless propaganda, fed shit and kept in the dark like mushrooms. Social Media has been very effective in that regard.
i think the bigger issue is there is no accountability or sanction anymore. Politicians can get away with secret donations or abusing campaign spending rules. Look at what happened to Cummings after he refused to appear before a parliamentary committee investigating funding of the Brexit campaign. The answer is nothing happened.
Is it simple coincidence the funding of the Brexit party (thousands of small payal donations too small to be recorded) is similar to campaign donations to Republicans in the USA?
Like I said the game has changed but the rules have not and the Politicians like playing with an unfair advantage.
|
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"Democratic government has been weakened and is still being undermined. The rules have not kept up with the game. Social Media has allowed for arms length unaccountable campaigning and the flood of dark money has destroyed transparency and accountability.
10 years ago there was outrage over Liam Fox, 5 years ago. The Brexit campaign bent the electoral spending rules. The Conservative party is now 100% owned by Russia and nobody wants to know
The same playbook has been used around the world and seen the undermining of democracy and the rise of far right authoritarianism in the UK, USA, Poland, Brazil and Hungary.
The fact the Russia report fiasco has been brushed aside by so many people is ridiculous. It was, and is, a huge scandal.
People simply dont care.
Apathy is the best tool the powerful can ever have.
No wonder they domt teach politics at school.
Apathy is just a symptom, people are worn down by ceaseless propaganda, fed shit and kept in the dark like mushrooms. Social Media has been very effective in that regard.
i think the bigger issue is there is no accountability or sanction anymore. Politicians can get away with secret donations or abusing campaign spending rules. Look at what happened to Cummings after he refused to appear before a parliamentary committee investigating funding of the Brexit campaign. The answer is nothing happened.
Is it simple coincidence the funding of the Brexit party (thousands of small payal donations too small to be recorded) is similar to campaign donations to Republicans in the USA?
Like I said the game has changed but the rules have not and the Politicians like playing with an unfair advantage.
"
I think propaganda is a big factor but too often we let people off with it.
People voted for Brexit.
People voted this shower in.
Now we all have to live with it |
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By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"We also needs rules and laws that actually hold the rulers and the rich to account. Currently, they seem to do whatever they want.
what do you mean currently. they have done what they like for as long as i can remember and probably before i can remember.its not a new thing politicians feathering there own nests and fuck everyone else"
I don't recall any time when its been different and the press were completely unbiased. They all seem to have an agenda and mostly preaching to the converted. All parties have to play the same system and the same rules |
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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
"We also needs rules and laws that actually hold the rulers and the rich to account. Currently, they seem to do whatever they want.
what do you mean currently. they have done what they like for as long as i can remember and probably before i can remember.its not a new thing politicians feathering there own nests and fuck everyone else
I don't recall any time when its been different and the press were completely unbiased. They all seem to have an agenda and mostly preaching to the converted. All parties have to play the same system and the same rules"
The cash for questions scandal damaged the Major govt, as did cash for honours damage Blair, Read more here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash-for-questions_affair and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash-for-Honours_scandal
The cash for influence affair resulted in MPs being banned from parliament https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_cash_for_influence_scandal. Do you remember the MPs expenses scandal?
Now nobody went to prison but political careers were finished, nowadays politicians are shameless, lie, deny bluster and bullshit on a scale never seen before.
Do you really think that social media has had a benign effect and purpose?
|
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By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"We also needs rules and laws that actually hold the rulers and the rich to account. Currently, they seem to do whatever they want.
what do you mean currently. they have done what they like for as long as i can remember and probably before i can remember.its not a new thing politicians feathering there own nests and fuck everyone else
I don't recall any time when its been different and the press were completely unbiased. They all seem to have an agenda and mostly preaching to the converted. All parties have to play the same system and the same rules
The cash for questions scandal damaged the Major govt, as did cash for honours damage Blair, Read more here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash-for-questions_affair and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash-for-Honours_scandal
The cash for influence affair resulted in MPs being banned from parliament https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_cash_for_influence_scandal. Do you remember the MPs expenses scandal?
Now nobody went to prison but political careers were finished, nowadays politicians are shameless, lie, deny bluster and bullshit on a scale never seen before.
Do you really think that social media has had a benign effect and purpose?
"
so one way or another its been going on. The methods may have changed with technology but its always happened |
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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
"We also needs rules and laws that actually hold the rulers and the rich to account. Currently, they seem to do whatever they want.
what do you mean currently. they have done what they like for as long as i can remember and probably before i can remember.its not a new thing politicians feathering there own nests and fuck everyone else
I don't recall any time when its been different and the press were completely unbiased. They all seem to have an agenda and mostly preaching to the converted. All parties have to play the same system and the same rules
The cash for questions scandal damaged the Major govt, as did cash for honours damage Blair, Read more here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash-for-questions_affair and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash-for-Honours_scandal
The cash for influence affair resulted in MPs being banned from parliament https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_cash_for_influence_scandal. Do you remember the MPs expenses scandal?
Now nobody went to prison but political careers were finished, nowadays politicians are shameless, lie, deny bluster and bullshit on a scale never seen before.
Do you really think that social media has had a benign effect and purpose?
so one way or another its been going on. The methods may have changed with technology but its always happened"
Things have changed for the worse, there is less accountability, transparency and integrity. There is more dark money, so there's that. |
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By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"We also needs rules and laws that actually hold the rulers and the rich to account. Currently, they seem to do whatever they want.
what do you mean currently. they have done what they like for as long as i can remember and probably before i can remember.its not a new thing politicians feathering there own nests and fuck everyone else
I don't recall any time when its been different and the press were completely unbiased. They all seem to have an agenda and mostly preaching to the converted. All parties have to play the same system and the same rules
The cash for questions scandal damaged the Major govt, as did cash for honours damage Blair, Read more here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash-for-questions_affair and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash-for-Honours_scandal
The cash for influence affair resulted in MPs being banned from parliament https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_cash_for_influence_scandal. Do you remember the MPs expenses scandal?
Now nobody went to prison but political careers were finished, nowadays politicians are shameless, lie, deny bluster and bullshit on a scale never seen before.
Do you really think that social media has had a benign effect and purpose?
so one way or another its been going on. The methods may have changed with technology but its always happened
Things have changed for the worse, there is less accountability, transparency and integrity. There is more dark money, so there's that."
I cant see a time when its been different. Sure the methods have changed but its always been the way. Even hundreds of years ago other countries were seeking to influence events in this counrty but by very different methods though money was often provided even then |
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I find the politicians have always lied argument a bit bizarre tbh.
Profumo got caught out banging someone and lied to parliament.
Its a scandal that has reverberated down the decades.
Now in the age of trump and johnson they lie on a daily basis but at least in America they try to hold him to account. |
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By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"I find the politicians have always lied argument a bit bizarre tbh.
Profumo got caught out banging someone and lied to parliament.
Its a scandal that has reverberated down the decades.
Now in the age of trump and johnson they lie on a daily basis but at least in America they try to hold him to account."
well you have just given more examples of them lying in the past |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I think the world knows how best to run a country but their is very gready individuals in power or trrat citizenz like insects. I would say Government means control.
Look at the usa for exp an 9/11 weapons of (didnt exist)
|
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"I find the politicians have always lied argument a bit bizarre tbh.
Profumo got caught out banging someone and lied to parliament.
Its a scandal that has reverberated down the decades.
Now in the age of trump and johnson they lie on a daily basis but at least in America they try to hold him to account.
well you have just given more examples of them lying in the past"
Thats never been in much doubt.
However in the past there seemed to be a lot more accountability |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Is somebody arguing along the lines of that old chestnut "they're all the same. Nothing changes etc" ?
No. Not true.
With Brexit, we are about to impose economic sanctions on ourself. This is not normal. In fact, I can't think of another example of a country imposing economic sanctions on themself. It's madness.
And our government are quite possibly funded + influenced by Russia. There was an investigation into Russian influence in British politics. The investigation was buried for ages. When it was finally released, it transpired nobody had bothered to really look into Russian influence on us. (Because they didn't want to find anything.) This is also not normal.
Tens of thousands of UK citizens have died due to the mishandling of a pandemic response. As far as I'm aware, nobody in government has taken resposibility and resigned. This is also not normal.
At the height of lockdown, a senior government advisor (the most senior, by all accounts) broke lockdown. He then lied about it and the government backed him up. this incident seriously damaged public trust in the government at a time when that was crucial. Again, as far as I know, nobody in government took responsibily and resigned. I don't think any of them even said sorry. This is not normal.
The examples go on and on. And they can't be excused away as "ahhhhh they all do it, so it's fine." |
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They have had an official warning for blacklisting journalists by the council of Europe apparently.
At the same time patel Is raving on about an attack on free speech by the actions of xr which meant that,that bastion of impartiality the sun,could not be printed today. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Priti has also been complaining about "activist lawyers" who have been doing the dastardly job of trying to uphold the law. So that would be ... lawyers just doing their job. And she's been smearing them for it.
|
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"Priti has also been complaining about "activist lawyers" who have been doing the dastardly job of trying to uphold the law. So that would be ... lawyers just doing their job. And she's been smearing them for it.
"
She really is despicable. |
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By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"I find the politicians have always lied argument a bit bizarre tbh.
Profumo got caught out banging someone and lied to parliament.
Its a scandal that has reverberated down the decades.
Now in the age of trump and johnson they lie on a daily basis but at least in America they try to hold him to account.
well you have just given more examples of them lying in the past
Thats never been in much doubt.
However in the past there seemed to be a lot more accountability "
Politicians lie. They always have and likely always will. They may not have been caught out in the past as much as today but its just how it is. Countries often try to influence other countries and again always have done. Maybe one day it will be different but don't hold your breath |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I find the politicians have always lied argument a bit bizarre tbh.
Profumo got caught out banging someone and lied to parliament.
Its a scandal that has reverberated down the decades.
Now in the age of trump and johnson they lie on a daily basis but at least in America they try to hold him to account.
well you have just given more examples of them lying in the past
Thats never been in much doubt.
However in the past there seemed to be a lot more accountability
Politicians lie. They always have and likely always will. They may not have been caught out in the past as much as today but its just how it is. Countries often try to influence other countries and again always have done. Maybe one day it will be different but don't hold your breath"
I gave some pretty clear examples above to show why the "ahh they're all the same" argument won't fly.
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By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"I find the politicians have always lied argument a bit bizarre tbh.
Profumo got caught out banging someone and lied to parliament.
Its a scandal that has reverberated down the decades.
Now in the age of trump and johnson they lie on a daily basis but at least in America they try to hold him to account.
well you have just given more examples of them lying in the past
Thats never been in much doubt.
However in the past there seemed to be a lot more accountability
Politicians lie. They always have and likely always will. They may not have been caught out in the past as much as today but its just how it is. Countries often try to influence other countries and again always have done. Maybe one day it will be different but don't hold your breath
I gave some pretty clear examples above to show why the "ahh they're all the same" argument won't fly.
"
Does that mean you expect me to agree. Sorry but I don't agree |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I find the politicians have always lied argument a bit bizarre tbh.
Profumo got caught out banging someone and lied to parliament.
Its a scandal that has reverberated down the decades.
Now in the age of trump and johnson they lie on a daily basis but at least in America they try to hold him to account.
well you have just given more examples of them lying in the past
Thats never been in much doubt.
However in the past there seemed to be a lot more accountability
Politicians lie. They always have and likely always will. They may not have been caught out in the past as much as today but its just how it is. Countries often try to influence other countries and again always have done. Maybe one day it will be different but don't hold your breath
I gave some pretty clear examples above to show why the "ahh they're all the same" argument won't fly.
Does that mean you expect me to agree. Sorry but I don't agree"
It would have been nice if you'd addressed the examples. Never mind. Keep believing whatever you believe for whatever reason you have. |
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By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"I find the politicians have always lied argument a bit bizarre tbh.
Profumo got caught out banging someone and lied to parliament.
Its a scandal that has reverberated down the decades.
Now in the age of trump and johnson they lie on a daily basis but at least in America they try to hold him to account.
well you have just given more examples of them lying in the past
Thats never been in much doubt.
However in the past there seemed to be a lot more accountability
Politicians lie. They always have and likely always will. They may not have been caught out in the past as much as today but its just how it is. Countries often try to influence other countries and again always have done. Maybe one day it will be different but don't hold your breath
I gave some pretty clear examples above to show why the "ahh they're all the same" argument won't fly.
Does that mean you expect me to agree. Sorry but I don't agree
It would have been nice if you'd addressed the examples. Never mind. Keep believing whatever you believe for whatever reason you have."
How kind of you to allow me to have my own opinion. Sorry it does not conform to your opinion but that's life |
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"I find the politicians have always lied argument a bit bizarre tbh.
Profumo got caught out banging someone and lied to parliament.
Its a scandal that has reverberated down the decades.
Now in the age of trump and johnson they lie on a daily basis but at least in America they try to hold him to account.
well you have just given more examples of them lying in the past
Thats never been in much doubt.
However in the past there seemed to be a lot more accountability
Politicians lie. They always have and likely always will. They may not have been caught out in the past as much as today but its just how it is. Countries often try to influence other countries and again always have done. Maybe one day it will be different but don't hold your breath"
I think the point is they have been caught out in the past(profumo)
|
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By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"I find the politicians have always lied argument a bit bizarre tbh.
Profumo got caught out banging someone and lied to parliament.
Its a scandal that has reverberated down the decades.
Now in the age of trump and johnson they lie on a daily basis but at least in America they try to hold him to account.
well you have just given more examples of them lying in the past
Thats never been in much doubt.
However in the past there seemed to be a lot more accountability
Politicians lie. They always have and likely always will. They may not have been caught out in the past as much as today but its just how it is. Countries often try to influence other countries and again always have done. Maybe one day it will be different but don't hold your breath
I think the point is they have been caught out in the past(profumo)
"
Indeed some did get caught out in the past as in the past they also lied |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I find the politicians have always lied argument a bit bizarre tbh.
Profumo got caught out banging someone and lied to parliament.
Its a scandal that has reverberated down the decades.
Now in the age of trump and johnson they lie on a daily basis but at least in America they try to hold him to account.
well you have just given more examples of them lying in the past
Thats never been in much doubt.
However in the past there seemed to be a lot more accountability
Politicians lie. They always have and likely always will. They may not have been caught out in the past as much as today but its just how it is. Countries often try to influence other countries and again always have done. Maybe one day it will be different but don't hold your breath
I gave some pretty clear examples above to show why the "ahh they're all the same" argument won't fly.
Does that mean you expect me to agree. Sorry but I don't agree
It would have been nice if you'd addressed the examples. Never mind. Keep believing whatever you believe for whatever reason you have.
How kind of you to allow me to have my own opinion. Sorry it does not conform to your opinion but that's life"
Hey you seem happy burying your head in the sand, so I might as well leave you to enjoy it.
Have a wonderful sandy life. x |
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By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"I find the politicians have always lied argument a bit bizarre tbh.
Profumo got caught out banging someone and lied to parliament.
Its a scandal that has reverberated down the decades.
Now in the age of trump and johnson they lie on a daily basis but at least in America they try to hold him to account.
well you have just given more examples of them lying in the past
Thats never been in much doubt.
However in the past there seemed to be a lot more accountability
Politicians lie. They always have and likely always will. They may not have been caught out in the past as much as today but its just how it is. Countries often try to influence other countries and again always have done. Maybe one day it will be different but don't hold your breath
I gave some pretty clear examples above to show why the "ahh they're all the same" argument won't fly.
Does that mean you expect me to agree. Sorry but I don't agree
It would have been nice if you'd addressed the examples. Never mind. Keep believing whatever you believe for whatever reason you have.
How kind of you to allow me to have my own opinion. Sorry it does not conform to your opinion but that's life
Hey you seem happy burying your head in the sand, so I might as well leave you to enjoy it.
Have a wonderful sandy life. x"
If you say so as only your opinion can ever be valid |
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