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Test and Trace - a great UK success
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"Great to see Serco participating in the success of Test and Trace . A few key facts • 16 million tests given to 9 million since May 28 th ( 5.3 million in the past 4 weeks alone ) • On a weekly basis the number of tests given is 60 % more than Germany , 40 % more than France and double that of Spain or Italy • Testing capacity will reach 500 ,000 a day within the next few weeks , far outstripping our European neighbours Based on the above we can safely ignore the merchants of doom and gloom who constantly criticise the government. The above example is another clear illustration of why we can have confidence in the current governments Test and Trace scheme . Any teething problems are being addressed . " Are you applying for a position with the gmnt? I'm fairly sure you could just send them a cv? | |||
"Great to see Serco participating in the success of Test and Trace . A few key facts • 16 million tests given to 9 million since May 28 th ( 5.3 million in the past 4 weeks alone ) • On a weekly basis the number of tests given is 60 % more than Germany , 40 % more than France and double that of Spain or Italy • Testing capacity will reach 500 ,000 a day within the next few weeks , far outstripping our European neighbours Based on the above we can safely ignore the merchants of doom and gloom who constantly criticise the government. The above example is another clear illustration of why we can have confidence in the current governments Test and Trace scheme . Any teething problems are being addressed . Are you applying for a position with the gmnt? I'm fairly sure you could just send them a cv?" Hi. You can apply to the opposition. A chance to put your words into action. | |||
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"Hi. I am always happy to accept guidance and advice from other people.That is how we progress in life . However I have never paid too much attraction to the Woke mob who are constantly using social media to express their views in a very forcefull manner . They are simply a very forcefully but small minority . What matters is what happens out in the real world and what the silent majority think ( a vocal minority are by and large irrelevant ). The results of the December 2019 election are probably self explanatory. These are the people that we elected to run the country, not the woke mob on twitter " Well said. Good man | |||
"As soon as you label anyone "woke" in a derogatory way, anything you say automatically becomes 95% less interesting. Why do you think that being aware of racism and injustice in society is a negative thing?" The same goes for the 'silent majority ' Ie the daily mail etc. | |||
"Op your delusional.. Seek help.." The massive expansion of the operation from what we could do back in January to what we are doing now surely deserves some recognition? Massive testing and tracking doesn't just grow on trees (unlike the money  )  | |||
"Op your delusional.. Seek help.. The massive expansion of the operation from what we could do back in January to what we are doing now surely deserves some recognition? Massive testing and tracking doesn't just grow on trees (unlike the money ) "Granted, however anyone looking at it now with any semblance of objective comparison to others would never say it was world beating.. It's cost in excess of £9 billion and has many areas of performance not up to scratch, even Boris fessed up partially last week.. Rolls Royce yes a UK success, track and trace a work in progress.. Perhaps some like the OP see it as a success given they view Brexit in similar vein, suppose it's where one sets the standard.. | |||
"Great to see Serco participating in the success of Test and Trace . A few key facts • 16 million tests given to 9 million since May 28 th ( 5.3 million in the past 4 weeks alone ) • On a weekly basis the number of tests given is 60 % more than Germany , 40 % more than France and double that of Spain or Italy • Testing capacity will reach 500 ,000 a day within the next few weeks , far outstripping our European neighbours Based on the above we can safely ignore the merchants of doom and gloom who constantly criticise the government. The above example is another clear illustration of why we can have confidence in the current governments Test and Trace scheme . Any teething problems are being addressed . " Here is the key problem. SERCO claims to be testing this volume. Though it's debatable as neither the government nor SERCO will provide their primary data. They are simply giving this figure to be parroted by the government. 16 million tests issued to 9 million individuals. That's 1.7r tests per individual in basic stats. This either means tests are providing false results, the test kits are faulty, or government policy is putting repeating individuals in a situation where COVID exposure is possible. Something is ineffective or inefficient here. The second and most problematic issue is that SERCO is not disclosing the percentage of individuals whose contacts they are reaching. E.g, how many people are getting alerted to being in contact with, or close proximity to, a COVID positive person. Testing and tracing go hand in hand. If the tracing doesn't work, the efficiency of mass testing is going to be offset. SERCO absolutely refuses to hand over any data regarding the impact and performance regarding their contact tracing performance. So, we can presume bluntly one of two things; - they are doing a shit job. - they have done something illegal with peoples' data. Both options are bad. | |||
"Op your delusional.. Seek help.. The massive expansion of the operation from what we could do back in January to what we are doing now surely deserves some recognition? Massive testing and tracking doesn't just grow on trees (unlike the money )
Granted, however anyone looking at it now with any semblance of objective comparison to others would never say it was world beating..
It's cost in excess of £9 billion and has many areas of performance not up to scratch, even Boris fessed up partially last week..
Rolls Royce yes a UK success, track and trace a work in progress..
Perhaps some like the OP see it as a success given they view Brexit in similar vein, suppose it's where one sets the standard.."A work in progress yes.. Interesting to hear the minister this morning talking about the large number of data points and transparency of the data - it becomes very easy to pick out one underperforming point and escalate this to represent a massively ”failing” system. We do now appear to be testing at such scale it dwarfs our nearest and dearest friends... maybe not world beating yet, but certainly Europe beating ? | |||
"Great to see Serco participating in the success of Test and Trace . A few key facts • 16 million tests given to 9 million since May 28 th ( 5.3 million in the past 4 weeks alone ) • On a weekly basis the number of tests given is 60 % more than Germany , 40 % more than France and double that of Spain or Italy • Testing capacity will reach 500 ,000 a day within the next few weeks , far outstripping our European neighbours Based on the above we can safely ignore the merchants of doom and gloom who constantly criticise the government. The above example is another clear illustration of why we can have confidence in the current governments Test and Trace scheme . Any teething problems are being addressed . Here is the key problem. SERCO claims to be testing this volume. Though it's debatable as neither the government nor SERCO will provide their primary data. They are simply giving this figure to be parroted by the government. 16 million tests issued to 9 million individuals. That's 1.7r tests per individual in basic stats. This either means tests are providing false results, the test kits are faulty, or government policy is putting repeating individuals in a situation where COVID exposure is possible. Something is ineffective or inefficient here. The second and most problematic issue is that SERCO is not disclosing the percentage of individuals whose contacts they are reaching. E.g, how many people are getting alerted to being in contact with, or close proximity to, a COVID positive person. Testing and tracing go hand in hand. If the tracing doesn't work, the efficiency of mass testing is going to be offset. SERCO absolutely refuses to hand over any data regarding the impact and performance regarding their contact tracing performance. So, we can presume bluntly one of two things; - they are doing a shit job. - they have done something illegal with peoples' data. Both options are bad. " Given their history with other contracts I wouldn't trust a thing they come up with, we need if the Tories are hell bent on the private sectors involvement an independent arbiter.. Bit of course they'll simply cite confidential etc.. | |||
"Op your delusional.. Seek help.. The massive expansion of the operation from what we could do back in January to what we are doing now surely deserves some recognition? Massive testing and tracking doesn't just grow on trees (unlike the money )
Granted, however anyone looking at it now with any semblance of objective comparison to others would never say it was world beating..
It's cost in excess of £9 billion and has many areas of performance not up to scratch, even Boris fessed up partially last week..
Rolls Royce yes a UK success, track and trace a work in progress..
Perhaps some like the OP see it as a success given they view Brexit in similar vein, suppose it's where one sets the standard..
A work in progress yes..
Interesting to hear the minister this morning talking about the large number of data points and transparency of the data - it becomes very easy to pick out one underperforming point and escalate this to represent a massively ”failing” system.
We do now appear to be testing at such scale it dwarfs our nearest and dearest friends... maybe not world beating yet, but certainly Europe beating ?"If the system is not efficient in following up the testing then we can test a million a day and there will still be flaws.. The whole emphasis seems to be on setting out high figures of testing as an indicator of success rather than going forward with as effective as possible the tracking and tracing which is fundamental.. Interestingly the local track and trace figures make the ones the op refers to look less than average let alone a success.. | |||
"Op your delusional.. Seek help.. The massive expansion of the operation from what we could do back in January to what we are doing now surely deserves some recognition? Massive testing and tracking doesn't just grow on trees (unlike the money )
Granted, however anyone looking at it now with any semblance of objective comparison to others would never say it was world beating..
It's cost in excess of £9 billion and has many areas of performance not up to scratch, even Boris fessed up partially last week..
Rolls Royce yes a UK success, track and trace a work in progress..
Perhaps some like the OP see it as a success given they view Brexit in similar vein, suppose it's where one sets the standard..
A work in progress yes..
Interesting to hear the minister this morning talking about the large number of data points and transparency of the data - it becomes very easy to pick out one underperforming point and escalate this to represent a massively ”failing” system.
We do now appear to be testing at such scale it dwarfs our nearest and dearest friends... maybe not world beating yet, but certainly Europe beating ?"Please see my above post. Testing is useless if contact tracing isn't on par. My post above explains the issues between the latter and SERCO. The language the Tories use for rolling more tests out than our neighbors is likely just control the narrative doctrine to stop hemorrhaging voters. They don't say we are testing more than Canada or NZ do they? Think about it. | |||
"Great to see Serco participating in the success of Test and Trace . A few key facts • 16 million tests given to 9 million since May 28 th ( 5.3 million in the past 4 weeks alone ) • On a weekly basis the number of tests given is 60 % more than Germany , 40 % more than France and double that of Spain or Italy • Testing capacity will reach 500 ,000 a day within the next few weeks , far outstripping our European neighbours Based on the above we can safely ignore the merchants of doom and gloom who constantly criticise the government. The above example is another clear illustration of why we can have confidence in the current governments Test and Trace scheme . Any teething problems are being addressed . " Pat can you explain the logic in your conclusion that Serco are a success when currently they are hitting numbers about 64% and local track and trace by councils etc are at 97%..? What would be your accolade to the latter..? | |||
"Op your delusional.. Seek help.. The massive expansion of the operation from what we could do back in January to what we are doing now surely deserves some recognition? Massive testing and tracking doesn't just grow on trees (unlike the money )
Granted, however anyone looking at it now with any semblance of objective comparison to others would never say it was world beating..
It's cost in excess of £9 billion and has many areas of performance not up to scratch, even Boris fessed up partially last week..
Rolls Royce yes a UK success, track and trace a work in progress..
Perhaps some like the OP see it as a success given they view Brexit in similar vein, suppose it's where one sets the standard..
A work in progress yes..
Interesting to hear the minister this morning talking about the large number of data points and transparency of the data - it becomes very easy to pick out one underperforming point and escalate this to represent a massively ”failing” system.
We do now appear to be testing at such scale it dwarfs our nearest and dearest friends... maybe not world beating yet, but certainly Europe beating ?
If the system is not efficient in following up the testing then we can test a million a day and there will still be flaws..
The whole emphasis seems to be on setting out high figures of testing as an indicator of success rather than going forward with as effective as possible the tracking and tracing which is fundamental..
Interestingly the local track and trace figures make the ones the op refers to look less than average let alone a success.."To give a point, I got a notification saying I'd been in contact with a COVID positive person at a period of time where this was impossible unless it was referring to exposure 6 days prior. To explain, before the message I had not left the house for 6 days, bar morning running, in which the only people who were near me, were those in the cars and busses passing me. So, unless the app detected that, it means it took 6 days for me to get an alert from the last time I went to the office - no call either. Just a message on the app stating exposure and an instruction to isolate for 10 days due to being near to a COVID positive case. | |||
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"Hi. I am always happy to accept guidance and advice from other people.That is how we progress in life . However I have never paid too much attraction to the Woke mob who are constantly using social media to express their views in a very forcefull manner . They are simply a very forcefully but small minority . What matters is what happens out in the real world and what the silent majority think ( a vocal minority are by and large irrelevant ). The results of the December 2019 election are probably self explanatory. These are the people that we elected to run the country, not the woke mob on twitter " Only 1 L in forceful Or is that just you using social media to drive your message home by using the 2nd L ? | |||
"Op your delusional.. Seek help.. The massive expansion of the operation from what we could do back in January to what we are doing now surely deserves some recognition? Massive testing and tracking doesn't just grow on trees (unlike the money )
Granted, however anyone looking at it now with any semblance of objective comparison to others would never say it was world beating..
It's cost in excess of £9 billion and has many areas of performance not up to scratch, even Boris fessed up partially last week..
Rolls Royce yes a UK success, track and trace a work in progress..
Perhaps some like the OP see it as a success given they view Brexit in similar vein, suppose it's where one sets the standard..
A work in progress yes..
Interesting to hear the minister this morning talking about the large number of data points and transparency of the data - it becomes very easy to pick out one underperforming point and escalate this to represent a massively ”failing” system.
We do now appear to be testing at such scale it dwarfs our nearest and dearest friends... maybe not world beating yet, but certainly Europe beating ?
If the system is not efficient in following up the testing then we can test a million a day and there will still be flaws..
The whole emphasis seems to be on setting out high figures of testing as an indicator of success rather than going forward with as effective as possible the tracking and tracing which is fundamental..
Interestingly the local track and trace figures make the ones the op refers to look less than average let alone a success..
To give a point, I got a notification saying I'd been in contact with a COVID positive person at a period of time where this was impossible unless it was referring to exposure 6 days prior.
To explain, before the message I had not left the house for 6 days, bar morning running, in which the only people who were near me, were those in the cars and busses passing me.
So, unless the app detected that, it means it took 6 days for me to get an alert from the last time I went to the office - no call either. Just a message on the app stating exposure and an instruction to isolate for 10 days due to being near to a COVID positive case."Such things have been all too common, the BBC had a piece about a guy who was told on the 24th of the month that he should begin to isolate 8 days prior.. | |||
"Op your delusional.. Seek help.. The massive expansion of the operation from what we could do back in January to what we are doing now surely deserves some recognition? Massive testing and tracking doesn't just grow on trees (unlike the money )
Granted, however anyone looking at it now with any semblance of objective comparison to others would never say it was world beating..
It's cost in excess of £9 billion and has many areas of performance not up to scratch, even Boris fessed up partially last week..
Rolls Royce yes a UK success, track and trace a work in progress..
Perhaps some like the OP see it as a success given they view Brexit in similar vein, suppose it's where one sets the standard..
A work in progress yes..
Interesting to hear the minister this morning talking about the large number of data points and transparency of the data - it becomes very easy to pick out one underperforming point and escalate this to represent a massively ”failing” system.
We do now appear to be testing at such scale it dwarfs our nearest and dearest friends... maybe not world beating yet, but certainly Europe beating ?
If the system is not efficient in following up the testing then we can test a million a day and there will still be flaws..
The whole emphasis seems to be on setting out high figures of testing as an indicator of success rather than going forward with as effective as possible the tracking and tracing which is fundamental..
Interestingly the local track and trace figures make the ones the op refers to look less than average let alone a success.."and if people won’t pick up the phone, provide accurate details, not isolate ? I'm not laying blame at our feet. An integral part of the system is user participation - and its clear large numbers are not (a recent study showed only 18% would isolate if they had symptoms) | |||
"Op your delusional.. Seek help.. The massive expansion of the operation from what we could do back in January to what we are doing now surely deserves some recognition? Massive testing and tracking doesn't just grow on trees (unlike the money )
Granted, however anyone looking at it now with any semblance of objective comparison to others would never say it was world beating..
It's cost in excess of £9 billion and has many areas of performance not up to scratch, even Boris fessed up partially last week..
Rolls Royce yes a UK success, track and trace a work in progress..
Perhaps some like the OP see it as a success given they view Brexit in similar vein, suppose it's where one sets the standard..
A work in progress yes..
Interesting to hear the minister this morning talking about the large number of data points and transparency of the data - it becomes very easy to pick out one underperforming point and escalate this to represent a massively ”failing” system.
We do now appear to be testing at such scale it dwarfs our nearest and dearest friends... maybe not world beating yet, but certainly Europe beating ?
If the system is not efficient in following up the testing then we can test a million a day and there will still be flaws..
The whole emphasis seems to be on setting out high figures of testing as an indicator of success rather than going forward with as effective as possible the tracking and tracing which is fundamental..
Interestingly the local track and trace figures make the ones the op refers to look less than average let alone a success..
and if people won’t pick up the phone, provide accurate details, not isolate ?
I'm not laying blame at our feet.
An integral part of the system is user participation - and its clear large numbers are not (a recent study showed only 18% would isolate if they had symptoms)
"I recall the figures, I put that and the other 11% one on a thread.. Perhaps behind all this is the general diminishing trust in this government, the figures for which in some ironic comparison make serco look good.. And they don't seem to be capable of learning, hence the forthcoming u turn on school meals.. | |||
"Great to see Serco participating in the success of Test and Trace . A few key facts • 16 million tests given to 9 million since May 28 th ( 5.3 million in the past 4 weeks alone ) • On a weekly basis the number of tests given is 60 % more than Germany , 40 % more than France and double that of Spain or Italy • Testing capacity will reach 500 ,000 a day within the next few weeks , far outstripping our European neighbours Based on the above we can safely ignore the merchants of doom and gloom who constantly criticise the government. The above example is another clear illustration of why we can have confidence in the current governments Test and Trace scheme . Any teething problems are being addressed . Pat can you explain the logic in your conclusion that Serco are a success when currently they are hitting numbers about 64% and local track and trace by councils etc are at 97%..? What would be your accolade to the latter..?" If it was such a success it would be on The front page of every news paper and Tory would be falling over themselves to give interviews about it. Especially as it would drown out the schools dinner story. The fact that its not tells it's own story. | |||
"Op your delusional.. Seek help.. The massive expansion of the operation from what we could do back in January to what we are doing now surely deserves some recognition? Massive testing and tracking doesn't just grow on trees (unlike the money )
Granted, however anyone looking at it now with any semblance of objective comparison to others would never say it was world beating..
It's cost in excess of £9 billion and has many areas of performance not up to scratch, even Boris fessed up partially last week..
Rolls Royce yes a UK success, track and trace a work in progress..
Perhaps some like the OP see it as a success given they view Brexit in similar vein, suppose it's where one sets the standard..
A work in progress yes..
Interesting to hear the minister this morning talking about the large number of data points and transparency of the data - it becomes very easy to pick out one underperforming point and escalate this to represent a massively ”failing” system.
We do now appear to be testing at such scale it dwarfs our nearest and dearest friends... maybe not world beating yet, but certainly Europe beating ?
If the system is not efficient in following up the testing then we can test a million a day and there will still be flaws..
The whole emphasis seems to be on setting out high figures of testing as an indicator of success rather than going forward with as effective as possible the tracking and tracing which is fundamental..
Interestingly the local track and trace figures make the ones the op refers to look less than average let alone a success..
and if people won’t pick up the phone, provide accurate details, not isolate ?
I'm not laying blame at our feet.
An integral part of the system is user participation - and its clear large numbers are not (a recent study showed only 18% would isolate if they had symptoms)
I recall the figures, I put that and the other 11% one on a thread..
Perhaps behind all this is the general diminishing trust in this government, the figures for which in some ironic comparison make serco look good..
And they don't seem to be capable of learning, hence the forthcoming u turn on school meals.."And when that happens they will painted as the gmnt that listens to the people. | |||
"Op your delusional.. Seek help.. The massive expansion of the operation from what we could do back in January to what we are doing now surely deserves some recognition? Massive testing and tracking doesn't just grow on trees (unlike the money )
Granted, however anyone looking at it now with any semblance of objective comparison to others would never say it was world beating..
It's cost in excess of £9 billion and has many areas of performance not up to scratch, even Boris fessed up partially last week..
Rolls Royce yes a UK success, track and trace a work in progress..
Perhaps some like the OP see it as a success given they view Brexit in similar vein, suppose it's where one sets the standard..
A work in progress yes..
Interesting to hear the minister this morning talking about the large number of data points and transparency of the data - it becomes very easy to pick out one underperforming point and escalate this to represent a massively ”failing” system.
We do now appear to be testing at such scale it dwarfs our nearest and dearest friends... maybe not world beating yet, but certainly Europe beating ?
Please see my above post.
Testing is useless if contact tracing isn't on par. My post above explains the issues between the latter and SERCO.
The language the Tories use for rolling more tests out than our neighbors is likely just control the narrative doctrine to stop hemorrhaging voters.
They don't say we are testing more than Canada or NZ do they? Think about it."Excellent point. | |||
"Great to see Serco participating in the success of Test and Trace . A few key facts • 16 million tests given to 9 million since May 28 th ( 5.3 million in the past 4 weeks alone ) • On a weekly basis the number of tests given is 60 % more than Germany , 40 % more than France and double that of Spain or Italy • Testing capacity will reach 500 ,000 a day within the next few weeks , far outstripping our European neighbours Based on the above we can safely ignore the merchants of doom and gloom who constantly criticise the government. The above example is another clear illustration of why we can have confidence in the current governments Test and Trace scheme . Any teething problems are being addressed . " Deaths in the U.K: about 45 000 France 34800 Spain 34800 Italy 37700 Germany 10500 Another great achievement by the U.K. government. Let’s celebrate ??. So the other countries test less but have fewer deaths and this is a sign that track and trace is working well? | |||
"Great to see Serco participating in the success of Test and Trace . A few key facts • 16 million tests given to 9 million since May 28 th ( 5.3 million in the past 4 weeks alone ) • On a weekly basis the number of tests given is 60 % more than Germany , 40 % more than France and double that of Spain or Italy • Testing capacity will reach 500 ,000 a day within the next few weeks , far outstripping our European neighbours Based on the above we can safely ignore the merchants of doom and gloom who constantly criticise the government. The above example is another clear illustration of why we can have confidence in the current governments Test and Trace scheme . Any teething problems are being addressed . " So last week when even Johnson admitted it wasn't performing as well as he wanted, he wasn't telling the truth? I can see why you might doubt something he's said. He does have a dodgy relationship with the truth after all. | |||
"Hi. I am always happy to accept guidance and advice from other people.That is how we progress in life . However I have never paid too much attraction to the Woke mob who are constantly using social media to express their views in a very forcefull manner . They are simply a very forcefully but small minority . What matters is what happens out in the real world and what the silent majority think ( a vocal minority are by and large irrelevant ). The results of the December 2019 election are probably self explanatory. These are the people that we elected to run the country, not the woke mob on twitter " You’re right they have been elected? They’ve been elected for Brexit. Did you see the following on the ballot paper? No deal brexit Highest death rate in Europe from Covid Refusal to feed the poorest children Breaking international law Etc... By the way, when you’re stuck on a topic and running out of arguments, do you create another without answering the previous questions you were stuck on? You’re right, you could work for the current gvt. | |||
"Great to see Serco participating in the success of Test and Trace . A few key facts • 16 million tests given to 9 million since May 28 th ( 5.3 million in the past 4 weeks alone ) • On a weekly basis the number of tests given is 60 % more than Germany , 40 % more than France and double that of Spain or Italy • Testing capacity will reach 500 ,000 a day within the next few weeks , far outstripping our European neighbours Based on the above we can safely ignore the merchants of doom and gloom who constantly criticise the government. The above example is another clear illustration of why we can have confidence in the current governments Test and Trace scheme . Any teething problems are being addressed . " Are you being ironic or do you genuinely believe that this is a good system? | |||
"Great to see Serco participating in the success of Test and Trace . A few key facts • 16 million tests given to 9 million since May 28 th ( 5.3 million in the past 4 weeks alone ) • On a weekly basis the number of tests given is 60 % more than Germany , 40 % more than France and double that of Spain or Italy • Testing capacity will reach 500 ,000 a day within the next few weeks , far outstripping our European neighbours Based on the above we can safely ignore the merchants of doom and gloom who constantly criticise the government. The above example is another clear illustration of why we can have confidence in the current governments Test and Trace scheme . Any teething problems are being addressed . Are you being ironic or do you genuinely believe that this is a good system?" I think he is a troll. I mean I can understand people defending some of the decisions that this gvt have taken about Covid, but defending the track and trace system takes some doing. Even the gvt can hardly defend it anymore. The guy is just trying to stir things up and looking for attention. | |||
"Hi. I am always happy to accept guidance and advice from other people.That is how we progress in life . However I have never paid too much attraction to the Woke mob who are constantly using social media to express their views in a very forcefull manner . They are simply a very forcefully but small minority . What matters is what happens out in the real world and what the silent majority think ( a vocal minority are by and large irrelevant ). The results of the December 2019 election are probably self explanatory. These are the people that we elected to run the country, not the woke mob on twitter You’re right they have been elected? They’ve been elected for Brexit. Did you see the following on the ballot paper? No deal brexit Highest death rate in Europe from Covid Refusal to feed the poorest children Breaking international law Etc... By the way, when you’re stuck on a topic and running out of arguments, do you create another without answering the previous questions you were stuck on? You’re right, you could work for the current gvt. " Amazing how you like fudge what the death rate actually is in Europe. Death rate is the ratio of death to the population of a particular area. In this case it is countries in Europe. The death rate in Europe is currently at. San Marino 1237 deaths per million. Belgium 931 deaths per million. Andorra 893 deaths per million. Spain 743 deaths per million. UK 660 deaths per million. Italy 618 deaths per million. All deaths are tragic but if you are quoting deaths do not mislead people. | |||
"Hi. I am always happy to accept guidance and advice from other people.That is how we progress in life . However I have never paid too much attraction to the Woke mob who are constantly using social media to express their views in a very forcefull manner . They are simply a very forcefully but small minority . What matters is what happens out in the real world and what the silent majority think ( a vocal minority are by and large irrelevant ). The results of the December 2019 election are probably self explanatory. These are the people that we elected to run the country, not the woke mob on twitter You’re right they have been elected? They’ve been elected for Brexit. Did you see the following on the ballot paper? No deal brexit Highest death rate in Europe from Covid Refusal to feed the poorest children Breaking international law Etc... By the way, when you’re stuck on a topic and running out of arguments, do you create another without answering the previous questions you were stuck on? You’re right, you could work for the current gvt. Amazing how you like fudge what the death rate actually is in Europe. Death rate is the ratio of death to the population of a particular area. In this case it is countries in Europe. The death rate in Europe is currently at. San Marino 1237 deaths per million. Belgium 931 deaths per million. Andorra 893 deaths per million. Spain 743 deaths per million. UK 660 deaths per million. Italy 618 deaths per million. All deaths are tragic but if you are quoting deaths do not mislead people." . Thank you for providing this. It confirms what I thought- namely that the UK did not have the highest death rate . Recent figures on the 14 day moving average also confirm that the UK does not have the highest death rate. If I have any spare time later I will paste in the 14 day moving average figures for a number of countries. | |||
"Great to see Serco participating in the success of Test and Trace . A few key facts • 16 million tests given to 9 million since May 28 th ( 5.3 million in the past 4 weeks alone ) • On a weekly basis the number of tests given is 60 % more than Germany , 40 % more than France and double that of Spain or Italy • Testing capacity will reach 500 ,000 a day within the next few weeks , far outstripping our European neighbours Based on the above we can safely ignore the merchants of doom and gloom who constantly criticise the government. The above example is another clear illustration of why we can have confidence in the current governments Test and Trace scheme . Any teething problems are being addressed . " You do know your breaking the fab forum rule of thou shall not praise the government. Not sure I can agree with you but they are not as bad as is being made out | |||
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"Can anyone imagine going into work every day and being constantly criticised ? It is hardly the way to get the best out of your staff . Serco and all its staff have achieved a lot in a short space of time. We should be acknowledging their success, motivating staff and getting the best from the system. Serco recognises that everything is not perfect and is working hard to adddress any outstanding issues . Anyone who has had an active involvement in the implementation of new systems will recognise that it is impossible to get everything right first time . " Is 6k a day not motivation enough? | |||
"Can anyone imagine going into work every day and being constantly criticised ? It is hardly the way to get the best out of your staff . Serco and all its staff have achieved a lot in a short space of time. We should be acknowledging their success, motivating staff and getting the best from the system. Serco recognises that everything is not perfect and is working hard to adddress any outstanding issues . Anyone who has had an active involvement in the implementation of new systems will recognise that it is impossible to get everything right first time . " I agree with this sentiment. Serco, Sodexo etc are all trying to follow up on the trace system but I appreciate it’s a massive task. Judging by the people they have turning up in taxi etc without appointments you can see tracing for idiots like that is always going to be fraught. My beef isn’t with any of the company’s or councils trying to do a mammoth task my beef is with the government claiming it’s a roaring success when it blatantly isn’t. Why can’t they be honest and say it’s not working well yet but it’s being worked on rather than claiming we are world beating all the time when people can see we’re not. It undermines the confidence of everyone involved both the company’s and the general public. We don’t want lies we want honesty when it comes to everyone’s health. That’s not party political that’s personal to everyone. | |||
"Can anyone imagine going into work every day and being constantly criticised ? It is hardly the way to get the best out of your staff . Serco and all its staff have achieved a lot in a short space of time. We should be acknowledging their success, motivating staff and getting the best from the system. Serco recognises that everything is not perfect and is working hard to adddress any outstanding issues . Anyone who has had an active involvement in the implementation of new systems will recognise that it is impossible to get everything right first time . Is 6k a day not motivation enough?" I agree that’s excessive and he’s probably a waste of space, but the abuse given out to the poor youngsters on the front line dishing out tests is just crap! | |||
"Can anyone imagine going into work every day and being constantly criticised ? It is hardly the way to get the best out of your staff . Serco and all its staff have achieved a lot in a short space of time. We should be acknowledging their success, motivating staff and getting the best from the system. Serco recognises that everything is not perfect and is working hard to adddress any outstanding issues . Anyone who has had an active involvement in the implementation of new systems will recognise that it is impossible to get everything right first time . I agree with this sentiment. Serco, Sodexo etc are all trying to follow up on the trace system but I appreciate it’s a massive task. Judging by the people they have turning up in taxi etc without appointments you can see tracing for idiots like that is always going to be fraught. My beef isn’t with any of the company’s or councils trying to do a mammoth task my beef is with the government claiming it’s a roaring success when it blatantly isn’t. Why can’t they be honest and say it’s not working well yet but it’s being worked on rather than claiming we are world beating all the time when people can see we’re not. It undermines the confidence of everyone involved both the company’s and the general public. We don’t want lies we want honesty when it comes to everyone’s health. That’s not party political that’s personal to everyone. " I think the problem lies in there with "why cant they be honest? Having a pm who wouldnt know the truth if it got into bed with him probably doesnt help. Still you get what you deserve. | |||
"Op your delusional.. Seek help.. The massive expansion of the operation from what we could do back in January to what we are doing now surely deserves some recognition? Massive testing and tracking doesn't just grow on trees (unlike the money )
Granted, however anyone looking at it now with any semblance of objective comparison to others would never say it was world beating..
It's cost in excess of £9 billion and has many areas of performance not up to scratch, even Boris fessed up partially last week..
Rolls Royce yes a UK success, track and trace a work in progress..
Perhaps some like the OP see it as a success given they view Brexit in similar vein, suppose it's where one sets the standard..
A work in progress yes..
Interesting to hear the minister this morning talking about the large number of data points and transparency of the data - it becomes very easy to pick out one underperforming point and escalate this to represent a massively ”failing” system.
We do now appear to be testing at such scale it dwarfs our nearest and dearest friends... maybe not world beating yet, but certainly Europe beating ?
If the system is not efficient in following up the testing then we can test a million a day and there will still be flaws..
The whole emphasis seems to be on setting out high figures of testing as an indicator of success rather than going forward with as effective as possible the tracking and tracing which is fundamental..
Interestingly the local track and trace figures make the ones the op refers to look less than average let alone a success..
To give a point, I got a notification saying I'd been in contact with a COVID positive person at a period of time where this was impossible unless it was referring to exposure 6 days prior.
To explain, before the message I had not left the house for 6 days, bar morning running, in which the only people who were near me, were those in the cars and busses passing me.
So, unless the app detected that, it means it took 6 days for me to get an alert from the last time I went to the office - no call either. Just a message on the app stating exposure and an instruction to isolate for 10 days due to being near to a COVID positive case."You do realise that there is an incubation time for this virus and a period of time where you can be contagious before showing symptoms as well as the asymptomatic carriers. It is totally plausible that you contacted someone with covid who only got a test and their results 6 days later. I hope you self isolated rather than dismissed it like you are doing here... | |||
"Op your delusional.. Seek help.. The massive expansion of the operation from what we could do back in January to what we are doing now surely deserves some recognition? Massive testing and tracking doesn't just grow on trees (unlike the money )
Granted, however anyone looking at it now with any semblance of objective comparison to others would never say it was world beating..
It's cost in excess of £9 billion and has many areas of performance not up to scratch, even Boris fessed up partially last week..
Rolls Royce yes a UK success, track and trace a work in progress..
Perhaps some like the OP see it as a success given they view Brexit in similar vein, suppose it's where one sets the standard..
A work in progress yes..
Interesting to hear the minister this morning talking about the large number of data points and transparency of the data - it becomes very easy to pick out one underperforming point and escalate this to represent a massively ”failing” system.
We do now appear to be testing at such scale it dwarfs our nearest and dearest friends... maybe not world beating yet, but certainly Europe beating ?"That's a very "quantity trumps quality" statement if I ever read one | |||
"Can anyone imagine going into work every day and being constantly criticised ? It is hardly the way to get the best out of your staff . Serco and all its staff have achieved a lot in a short space of time. We should be acknowledging their success, motivating staff and getting the best from the system. Serco recognises that everything is not perfect and is working hard to adddress any outstanding issues . Anyone who has had an active involvement in the implementation of new systems will recognise that it is impossible to get everything right first time . I agree with this sentiment. Serco, Sodexo etc are all trying to follow up on the trace system but I appreciate it’s a massive task. Judging by the people they have turning up in taxi etc without appointments you can see tracing for idiots like that is always going to be fraught. My beef isn’t with any of the company’s or councils trying to do a mammoth task my beef is with the government claiming it’s a roaring success when it blatantly isn’t. Why can’t they be honest and say it’s not working well yet but it’s being worked on rather than claiming we are world beating all the time when people can see we’re not. It undermines the confidence of everyone involved both the company’s and the general public. We don’t want lies we want honesty when it comes to everyone’s health. That’s not party political that’s personal to everyone. I think the problem lies in there with "why cant they be honest? Having a pm who wouldnt know the truth if it got into bed with him probably doesnt help. Still you get what you deserve. " The tragedy is that we just bend over and take it whoever is in power. Isn’t it time we started holding our governments to account . Since when was it ok to lie to us all and in Parliament? I’ve voted conservative in the past so guilty as charged but even I think this bunch are truly a disgrace to this country’s status and the Conservative party itself. No reference to Brexit I just think they are horrific people who have no interest in anyone but themselves and their backers. And since when did a vote on children’s meals need the action of the whips. That was surely a vote around social belief of a fair society. They weren’t voting on nuclear weapons! | |||
"Can anyone imagine going into work every day and being constantly criticised ? It is hardly the way to get the best out of your staff . Serco and all its staff have achieved a lot in a short space of time. We should be acknowledging their success, motivating staff and getting the best from the system. Serco recognises that everything is not perfect and is working hard to adddress any outstanding issues . Anyone who has had an active involvement in the implementation of new systems will recognise that it is impossible to get everything right first time . I agree with this sentiment. Serco, Sodexo etc are all trying to follow up on the trace system but I appreciate it’s a massive task. Judging by the people they have turning up in taxi etc without appointments you can see tracing for idiots like that is always going to be fraught. My beef isn’t with any of the company’s or councils trying to do a mammoth task my beef is with the government claiming it’s a roaring success when it blatantly isn’t. Why can’t they be honest and say it’s not working well yet but it’s being worked on rather than claiming we are world beating all the time when people can see we’re not. It undermines the confidence of everyone involved both the company’s and the general public. We don’t want lies we want honesty when it comes to everyone’s health. That’s not party political that’s personal to everyone. I think the problem lies in there with "why cant they be honest? Having a pm who wouldnt know the truth if it got into bed with him probably doesnt help. Still you get what you deserve. The tragedy is that we just bend over and take it whoever is in power. Isn’t it time we started holding our governments to account . Since when was it ok to lie to us all and in Parliament? I’ve voted conservative in the past so guilty as charged but even I think this bunch are truly a disgrace to this country’s status and the Conservative party itself. No reference to Brexit I just think they are horrific people who have no interest in anyone but themselves and their backers. And since when did a vote on children’s meals need the action of the whips. That was surely a vote around social belief of a fair society. They weren’t voting on nuclear weapons! " Labour played a blinder by putting forward an Opposition Day motion on the school meals issue. By doing that, they made it partisan, knew it would be whipped, knew that they would lose the motion but would win the propaganda battle. Opposition Day motions never suceed, as they would give the impression that the opposition is doing the legislating. | |||
"Can anyone imagine going into work every day and being constantly criticised ? It is hardly the way to get the best out of your staff . Serco and all its staff have achieved a lot in a short space of time. We should be acknowledging their success, motivating staff and getting the best from the system. Serco recognises that everything is not perfect and is working hard to adddress any outstanding issues . Anyone who has had an active involvement in the implementation of new systems will recognise that it is impossible to get everything right first time . " They have a history of defrauding the tax payer, we are because of cuts to the civil service left between a rock and a hard place.. We demand value for money from other sectors but not it seems when companies like Serco get contracts now with no penalty clauses after they have been found liable for false accounting and fraud .. It's either gross negligence or someone's complicit.. | |||
"Can anyone imagine going into work every day and being constantly criticised ? It is hardly the way to get the best out of your staff . Serco and all its staff have achieved a lot in a short space of time. We should be acknowledging their success, motivating staff and getting the best from the system. Serco recognises that everything is not perfect and is working hard to adddress any outstanding issues . Anyone who has had an active involvement in the implementation of new systems will recognise that it is impossible to get everything right first time . I agree with this sentiment. Serco, Sodexo etc are all trying to follow up on the trace system but I appreciate it’s a massive task. Judging by the people they have turning up in taxi etc without appointments you can see tracing for idiots like that is always going to be fraught. My beef isn’t with any of the company’s or councils trying to do a mammoth task my beef is with the government claiming it’s a roaring success when it blatantly isn’t. Why can’t they be honest and say it’s not working well yet but it’s being worked on rather than claiming we are world beating all the time when people can see we’re not. It undermines the confidence of everyone involved both the company’s and the general public. We don’t want lies we want honesty when it comes to everyone’s health. That’s not party political that’s personal to everyone. I think the problem lies in there with "why cant they be honest? Having a pm who wouldnt know the truth if it got into bed with him probably doesnt help. Still you get what you deserve. The tragedy is that we just bend over and take it whoever is in power. Isn’t it time we started holding our governments to account . Since when was it ok to lie to us all and in Parliament? I’ve voted conservative in the past so guilty as charged but even I think this bunch are truly a disgrace to this country’s status and the Conservative party itself. No reference to Brexit I just think they are horrific people who have no interest in anyone but themselves and their backers. And since when did a vote on children’s meals need the action of the whips. That was surely a vote around social belief of a fair society. They weren’t voting on nuclear weapons! Labour played a blinder by putting forward an Opposition Day motion on the school meals issue. By doing that, they made it partisan, knew it would be whipped, knew that they would lose the motion but would win the propaganda battle. Opposition Day motions never suceed, as they would give the impression that the opposition is doing the legislating. " That’s my point It should not be partisan it’s about hungry kids and parliament, as a whole, should be ashamed we are even discussing it. | |||
"Can anyone imagine going into work every day and being constantly criticised ? It is hardly the way to get the best out of your staff . Serco and all its staff have achieved a lot in a short space of time. We should be acknowledging their success, motivating staff and getting the best from the system. Serco recognises that everything is not perfect and is working hard to adddress any outstanding issues . Anyone who has had an active involvement in the implementation of new systems will recognise that it is impossible to get everything right first time . I agree with this sentiment. Serco, Sodexo etc are all trying to follow up on the trace system but I appreciate it’s a massive task. Judging by the people they have turning up in taxi etc without appointments you can see tracing for idiots like that is always going to be fraught. My beef isn’t with any of the company’s or councils trying to do a mammoth task my beef is with the government claiming it’s a roaring success when it blatantly isn’t. Why can’t they be honest and say it’s not working well yet but it’s being worked on rather than claiming we are world beating all the time when people can see we’re not. It undermines the confidence of everyone involved both the company’s and the general public. We don’t want lies we want honesty when it comes to everyone’s health. That’s not party political that’s personal to everyone. I think the problem lies in there with "why cant they be honest? Having a pm who wouldnt know the truth if it got into bed with him probably doesnt help. Still you get what you deserve. The tragedy is that we just bend over and take it whoever is in power. Isn’t it time we started holding our governments to account . Since when was it ok to lie to us all and in Parliament? I’ve voted conservative in the past so guilty as charged but even I think this bunch are truly a disgrace to this country’s status and the Conservative party itself. No reference to Brexit I just think they are horrific people who have no interest in anyone but themselves and their backers. And since when did a vote on children’s meals need the action of the whips. That was surely a vote around social belief of a fair society. They weren’t voting on nuclear weapons! Labour played a blinder by putting forward an Opposition Day motion on the school meals issue. By doing that, they made it partisan, knew it would be whipped, knew that they would lose the motion but would win the propaganda battle. Opposition Day motions never suceed, as they would give the impression that the opposition is doing the legislating. " So they had to vote on it you mean? | |||
"Can anyone imagine going into work every day and being constantly criticised ? It is hardly the way to get the best out of your staff . Serco and all its staff have achieved a lot in a short space of time. We should be acknowledging their success, motivating staff and getting the best from the system. Serco recognises that everything is not perfect and is working hard to adddress any outstanding issues . Anyone who has had an active involvement in the implementation of new systems will recognise that it is impossible to get everything right first time . I agree with this sentiment. Serco, Sodexo etc are all trying to follow up on the trace system but I appreciate it’s a massive task. Judging by the people they have turning up in taxi etc without appointments you can see tracing for idiots like that is always going to be fraught. My beef isn’t with any of the company’s or councils trying to do a mammoth task my beef is with the government claiming it’s a roaring success when it blatantly isn’t. Why can’t they be honest and say it’s not working well yet but it’s being worked on rather than claiming we are world beating all the time when people can see we’re not. It undermines the confidence of everyone involved both the company’s and the general public. We don’t want lies we want honesty when it comes to everyone’s health. That’s not party political that’s personal to everyone. " This has been one of the biggest blunders by this administration, give the people the credit to know that with something as big and at times complex as the pandemic there will be teething problems and mistakes made .. But instead we have complete bs from Boris etc promising the earth and they're chasing their arses trying to spin something the public can easily see is not what was over promised .. It's not as easy a lie to sell as 'we will get Brexit done'.. They keep messing up, a lack of clear strategy and a plan is only compounded by such things.. Worryingly they don't seem to learn and whilst most people will accept mistakes made they expect lessons to be learned and to not keep on doing the same.. | |||
"Op your delusional.. Seek help.. The massive expansion of the operation from what we could do back in January to what we are doing now surely deserves some recognition? Massive testing and tracking doesn't just grow on trees (unlike the money )
Granted, however anyone looking at it now with any semblance of objective comparison to others would never say it was world beating..
It's cost in excess of £9 billion and has many areas of performance not up to scratch, even Boris fessed up partially last week..
Rolls Royce yes a UK success, track and trace a work in progress..
Perhaps some like the OP see it as a success given they view Brexit in similar vein, suppose it's where one sets the standard..
A work in progress yes..
Interesting to hear the minister this morning talking about the large number of data points and transparency of the data - it becomes very easy to pick out one underperforming point and escalate this to represent a massively ”failing” system.
We do now appear to be testing at such scale it dwarfs our nearest and dearest friends... maybe not world beating yet, but certainly Europe beating ?
If the system is not efficient in following up the testing then we can test a million a day and there will still be flaws..
The whole emphasis seems to be on setting out high figures of testing as an indicator of success rather than going forward with as effective as possible the tracking and tracing which is fundamental..
Interestingly the local track and trace figures make the ones the op refers to look less than average let alone a success..
To give a point, I got a notification saying I'd been in contact with a COVID positive person at a period of time where this was impossible unless it was referring to exposure 6 days prior.
To explain, before the message I had not left the house for 6 days, bar morning running, in which the only people who were near me, were those in the cars and busses passing me.
So, unless the app detected that, it means it took 6 days for me to get an alert from the last time I went to the office - no call either. Just a message on the app stating exposure and an instruction to isolate for 10 days due to being near to a COVID positive case.
You do realise that there is an incubation time for this virus and a period of time where you can be contagious before showing symptoms as well as the asymptomatic carriers.
It is totally plausible that you contacted someone with covid who only got a test and their results 6 days later. I hope you self isolated rather than dismissed it like you are doing here..."I isolated in line with the guidance - given the police have access to the app data I'd never chance leaving the house whilst being told to isolate. I think you need re-read the text though. I went to the office 6 days prior to receiving the alert to isolate. That was 5 mornings where I left the house to go running as everything was okay as far as I could tell. On the 5th evening I received the app alert. And then proceeded to isolate for 10 days. Our office is following PHE guidelines and we are alerted to how many cases are positive within our building - and as we are on either rotas to come in, or book to go in only when needed, we are informed if we were in a building where a positive case occurred. I received no notification from work that a case was positive on the day I went in. Nor was anyone else. As such exposure must have occurred in transit too or from work. Yes, I'm aware that often there is an asymptomatic incubation period for this, and many viruses. It just seems given the rates of poor contact tracing, Vs the average of a 3 day asymptomatic period, before someone develops symptoms, it's more likely that this is an example of poor contact tracing. | |||
"Can anyone imagine going into work every day and being constantly criticised ? It is hardly the way to get the best out of your staff . Serco and all its staff have achieved a lot in a short space of time. We should be acknowledging their success, motivating staff and getting the best from the system. Serco recognises that everything is not perfect and is working hard to adddress any outstanding issues . Anyone who has had an active involvement in the implementation of new systems will recognise that it is impossible to get everything right first time . I agree with this sentiment. Serco, Sodexo etc are all trying to follow up on the trace system but I appreciate it’s a massive task. Judging by the people they have turning up in taxi etc without appointments you can see tracing for idiots like that is always going to be fraught. My beef isn’t with any of the company’s or councils trying to do a mammoth task my beef is with the government claiming it’s a roaring success when it blatantly isn’t. Why can’t they be honest and say it’s not working well yet but it’s being worked on rather than claiming we are world beating all the time when people can see we’re not. It undermines the confidence of everyone involved both the company’s and the general public. We don’t want lies we want honesty when it comes to everyone’s health. That’s not party political that’s personal to everyone. I think the problem lies in there with "why cant they be honest? Having a pm who wouldnt know the truth if it got into bed with him probably doesnt help. Still you get what you deserve. The tragedy is that we just bend over and take it whoever is in power. Isn’t it time we started holding our governments to account . Since when was it ok to lie to us all and in Parliament? I’ve voted conservative in the past so guilty as charged but even I think this bunch are truly a disgrace to this country’s status and the Conservative party itself. No reference to Brexit I just think they are horrific people who have no interest in anyone but themselves and their backers. And since when did a vote on children’s meals need the action of the whips. That was surely a vote around social belief of a fair society. They weren’t voting on nuclear weapons! Labour played a blinder by putting forward an Opposition Day motion on the school meals issue. By doing that, they made it partisan, knew it would be whipped, knew that they would lose the motion but would win the propaganda battle. Opposition Day motions never suceed, as they would give the impression that the opposition is doing the legislating. So they had to vote on it you mean?" Yes, Labour will try again this week and see how many more Conservatives they can turn. | |||
"Can anyone imagine going into work every day and being constantly criticised ? It is hardly the way to get the best out of your staff . Serco and all its staff have achieved a lot in a short space of time. We should be acknowledging their success, motivating staff and getting the best from the system. Serco recognises that everything is not perfect and is working hard to adddress any outstanding issues . Anyone who has had an active involvement in the implementation of new systems will recognise that it is impossible to get everything right first time . I agree with this sentiment. Serco, Sodexo etc are all trying to follow up on the trace system but I appreciate it’s a massive task. Judging by the people they have turning up in taxi etc without appointments you can see tracing for idiots like that is always going to be fraught. My beef isn’t with any of the company’s or councils trying to do a mammoth task my beef is with the government claiming it’s a roaring success when it blatantly isn’t. Why can’t they be honest and say it’s not working well yet but it’s being worked on rather than claiming we are world beating all the time when people can see we’re not. It undermines the confidence of everyone involved both the company’s and the general public. We don’t want lies we want honesty when it comes to everyone’s health. That’s not party political that’s personal to everyone. I think the problem lies in there with "why cant they be honest? Having a pm who wouldnt know the truth if it got into bed with him probably doesnt help. Still you get what you deserve. The tragedy is that we just bend over and take it whoever is in power. Isn’t it time we started holding our governments to account . Since when was it ok to lie to us all and in Parliament? I’ve voted conservative in the past so guilty as charged but even I think this bunch are truly a disgrace to this country’s status and the Conservative party itself. No reference to Brexit I just think they are horrific people who have no interest in anyone but themselves and their backers. And since when did a vote on children’s meals need the action of the whips. That was surely a vote around social belief of a fair society. They weren’t voting on nuclear weapons! Labour played a blinder by putting forward an Opposition Day motion on the school meals issue. By doing that, they made it partisan, knew it would be whipped, knew that they would lose the motion but would win the propaganda battle. Opposition Day motions never suceed, as they would give the impression that the opposition is doing the legislating. So they had to vote on it you mean? Yes, Labour will try again this week and see how many more Conservatives they can turn. " But surely it would have made the news anyway? They must have knew the shitstorm it would cause. | |||
"Can anyone imagine going into work every day and being constantly criticised ? It is hardly the way to get the best out of your staff . Serco and all its staff have achieved a lot in a short space of time. We should be acknowledging their success, motivating staff and getting the best from the system. Serco recognises that everything is not perfect and is working hard to adddress any outstanding issues . Anyone who has had an active involvement in the implementation of new systems will recognise that it is impossible to get everything right first time . I agree with this sentiment. Serco, Sodexo etc are all trying to follow up on the trace system but I appreciate it’s a massive task. Judging by the people they have turning up in taxi etc without appointments you can see tracing for idiots like that is always going to be fraught. My beef isn’t with any of the company’s or councils trying to do a mammoth task my beef is with the government claiming it’s a roaring success when it blatantly isn’t. Why can’t they be honest and say it’s not working well yet but it’s being worked on rather than claiming we are world beating all the time when people can see we’re not. It undermines the confidence of everyone involved both the company’s and the general public. We don’t want lies we want honesty when it comes to everyone’s health. That’s not party political that’s personal to everyone. I think the problem lies in there with "why cant they be honest? Having a pm who wouldnt know the truth if it got into bed with him probably doesnt help. Still you get what you deserve. The tragedy is that we just bend over and take it whoever is in power. Isn’t it time we started holding our governments to account . Since when was it ok to lie to us all and in Parliament? I’ve voted conservative in the past so guilty as charged but even I think this bunch are truly a disgrace to this country’s status and the Conservative party itself. No reference to Brexit I just think they are horrific people who have no interest in anyone but themselves and their backers. And since when did a vote on children’s meals need the action of the whips. That was surely a vote around social belief of a fair society. They weren’t voting on nuclear weapons! Labour played a blinder by putting forward an Opposition Day motion on the school meals issue. By doing that, they made it partisan, knew it would be whipped, knew that they would lose the motion but would win the propaganda battle. Opposition Day motions never suceed, as they would give the impression that the opposition is doing the legislating. So they had to vote on it you mean? Yes, Labour will try again this week and see how many more Conservatives they can turn. But surely it would have made the news anyway? They must have knew the shitstorm it would cause. " And thats what makes it all the worse. Labour set a trap and the majority of the Conservatives walked straight into it. | |||
"Hi. I am always happy to accept guidance and advice from other people.That is how we progress in life . However I have never paid too much attraction to the Woke mob who are constantly using social media to express their views in a very forcefull manner . They are simply a very forcefully but small minority . What matters is what happens out in the real world and what the silent majority think ( a vocal minority are by and large irrelevant ). The results of the December 2019 election are probably self explanatory. These are the people that we elected to run the country, not the woke mob on twitter You’re right they have been elected? They’ve been elected for Brexit. Did you see the following on the ballot paper? No deal brexit Highest death rate in Europe from Covid Refusal to feed the poorest children Breaking international law Etc... By the way, when you’re stuck on a topic and running out of arguments, do you create another without answering the previous questions you were stuck on? You’re right, you could work for the current gvt. Amazing how you like fudge what the death rate actually is in Europe. Death rate is the ratio of death to the population of a particular area. In this case it is countries in Europe. The death rate in Europe is currently at. San Marino 1237 deaths per million. Belgium 931 deaths per million. Andorra 893 deaths per million. Spain 743 deaths per million. UK 660 deaths per million. Italy 618 deaths per million. All deaths are tragic but if you are quoting deaths do not mislead people.. Thank you for providing this. It confirms what I thought- namely that the UK did not have the highest death rate . Recent figures on the 14 day moving average also confirm that the UK does not have the highest death rate. If I have any spare time later I will paste in the 14 day moving average figures for a number of countries. " That’s obviously without the 15 million who were removed from the death toll a few months ago. The tories are so good that people are reborn once they’ve died from Covid. Let’s celebrate! | |||
"Op your delusional.. Seek help.. The massive expansion of the operation from what we could do back in January to what we are doing now surely deserves some recognition? Massive testing and tracking doesn't just grow on trees (unlike the money )
Granted, however anyone looking at it now with any semblance of objective comparison to others would never say it was world beating..
It's cost in excess of £9 billion and has many areas of performance not up to scratch, even Boris fessed up partially last week..
Rolls Royce yes a UK success, track and trace a work in progress..
Perhaps some like the OP see it as a success given they view Brexit in similar vein, suppose it's where one sets the standard..
A work in progress yes..
Interesting to hear the minister this morning talking about the large number of data points and transparency of the data - it becomes very easy to pick out one underperforming point and escalate this to represent a massively ”failing” system.
We do now appear to be testing at such scale it dwarfs our nearest and dearest friends... maybe not world beating yet, but certainly Europe beating ?
If the system is not efficient in following up the testing then we can test a million a day and there will still be flaws..
The whole emphasis seems to be on setting out high figures of testing as an indicator of success rather than going forward with as effective as possible the tracking and tracing which is fundamental..
Interestingly the local track and trace figures make the ones the op refers to look less than average let alone a success..
To give a point, I got a notification saying I'd been in contact with a COVID positive person at a period of time where this was impossible unless it was referring to exposure 6 days prior.
To explain, before the message I had not left the house for 6 days, bar morning running, in which the only people who were near me, were those in the cars and busses passing me.
So, unless the app detected that, it means it took 6 days for me to get an alert from the last time I went to the office - no call either. Just a message on the app stating exposure and an instruction to isolate for 10 days due to being near to a COVID positive case.
You do realise that there is an incubation time for this virus and a period of time where you can be contagious before showing symptoms as well as the asymptomatic carriers.
It is totally plausible that you contacted someone with covid who only got a test and their results 6 days later. I hope you self isolated rather than dismissed it like you are doing here...
I isolated in line with the guidance - given the police have access to the app data I'd never chance leaving the house whilst being told to isolate.
I think you need re-read the text though.
I went to the office 6 days prior to receiving the alert to isolate. That was 5 mornings where I left the house to go running as everything was okay as far as I could tell. On the 5th evening I received the app alert. And then proceeded to isolate for 10 days.
Our office is following PHE guidelines and we are alerted to how many cases are positive within our building - and as we are on either rotas to come in, or book to go in only when needed, we are informed if we were in a building where a positive case occurred.
I received no notification from work that a case was positive on the day I went in. Nor was anyone else.
As such exposure must have occurred in transit too or from work.
Yes, I'm aware that often there is an asymptomatic incubation period for this, and many viruses.
It just seems given the rates of poor contact tracing, Vs the average of a 3 day asymptomatic period, before someone develops symptoms, it's more likely that this is an example of poor contact tracing."3 days asymptomatic, 1 day to get a test, 1 day to get results = your notification 5 days after contact. 3 days may be the average however i believe 7 days is the number used. Your confidence in your workplace procedure is admirable however does it rely on everyone telling the truth? Does it account for visitors on site? | |||
"Hi. I am always happy to accept guidance and advice from other people.That is how we progress in life . However I have never paid too much attraction to the Woke mob who are constantly using social media to express their views in a very forcefull manner . They are simply a very forcefully but small minority . What matters is what happens out in the real world and what the silent majority think ( a vocal minority are by and large irrelevant ). The results of the December 2019 election are probably self explanatory. These are the people that we elected to run the country, not the woke mob on twitter You’re right they have been elected? They’ve been elected for Brexit. Did you see the following on the ballot paper? No deal brexit Highest death rate in Europe from Covid Refusal to feed the poorest children Breaking international law Etc... By the way, when you’re stuck on a topic and running out of arguments, do you create another without answering the previous questions you were stuck on? You’re right, you could work for the current gvt. Amazing how you like fudge what the death rate actually is in Europe. Death rate is the ratio of death to the population of a particular area. In this case it is countries in Europe. The death rate in Europe is currently at. San Marino 1237 deaths per million. Belgium 931 deaths per million. Andorra 893 deaths per million. Spain 743 deaths per million. UK 660 deaths per million. Italy 618 deaths per million. All deaths are tragic but if you are quoting deaths do not mislead people.. Thank you for providing this. It confirms what I thought- namely that the UK did not have the highest death rate . Recent figures on the 14 day moving average also confirm that the UK does not have the highest death rate. If I have any spare time later I will paste in the 14 day moving average figures for a number of countries. That’s obviously without the 15 million who were removed from the death toll a few months ago. The tories are so good that people are reborn once they’ve died from Covid. Let’s celebrate! " This confirms you are deluded if you are suggesting 15 million Brits have died and nobody has noticed them missing.! | |||
"Hi. I am always happy to accept guidance and advice from other people.That is how we progress in life . However I have never paid too much attraction to the Woke mob who are constantly using social media to express their views in a very forcefull manner . They are simply a very forcefully but small minority . What matters is what happens out in the real world and what the silent majority think ( a vocal minority are by and large irrelevant ). The results of the December 2019 election are probably self explanatory. These are the people that we elected to run the country, not the woke mob on twitter You’re right they have been elected? They’ve been elected for Brexit. Did you see the following on the ballot paper? No deal brexit Highest death rate in Europe from Covid Refusal to feed the poorest children Breaking international law Etc... By the way, when you’re stuck on a topic and running out of arguments, do you create another without answering the previous questions you were stuck on? You’re right, you could work for the current gvt. Amazing how you like fudge what the death rate actually is in Europe. Death rate is the ratio of death to the population of a particular area. In this case it is countries in Europe. The death rate in Europe is currently at. San Marino 1237 deaths per million. Belgium 931 deaths per million. Andorra 893 deaths per million. Spain 743 deaths per million. UK 660 deaths per million. Italy 618 deaths per million. All deaths are tragic but if you are quoting deaths do not mislead people.. Thank you for providing this. It confirms what I thought- namely that the UK did not have the highest death rate . Recent figures on the 14 day moving average also confirm that the UK does not have the highest death rate. If I have any spare time later I will paste in the 14 day moving average figures for a number of countries. That’s obviously without the 15 million who were removed from the death toll a few months ago. The tories are so good that people are reborn once they’ve died from Covid. Let’s celebrate! This confirms you are deluded if you are suggesting 15 million Brits have died and nobody has noticed them missing.!" Have you heard of excess deaths and also the number of deaths related to Covid being brought down a few months ago? Probably not. You’re so in love with blondie that you live in fantasyland. | |||
"Hi. I am always happy to accept guidance and advice from other people.That is how we progress in life . However I have never paid too much attraction to the Woke mob who are constantly using social media to express their views in a very forcefull manner . They are simply a very forcefully but small minority . What matters is what happens out in the real world and what the silent majority think ( a vocal minority are by and large irrelevant ). The results of the December 2019 election are probably self explanatory. These are the people that we elected to run the country, not the woke mob on twitter You’re right they have been elected? They’ve been elected for Brexit. Did you see the following on the ballot paper? No deal brexit Highest death rate in Europe from Covid Refusal to feed the poorest children Breaking international law Etc... By the way, when you’re stuck on a topic and running out of arguments, do you create another without answering the previous questions you were stuck on? You’re right, you could work for the current gvt. Amazing how you like fudge what the death rate actually is in Europe. Death rate is the ratio of death to the population of a particular area. In this case it is countries in Europe. The death rate in Europe is currently at. San Marino 1237 deaths per million. Belgium 931 deaths per million. Andorra 893 deaths per million. Spain 743 deaths per million. UK 660 deaths per million. Italy 618 deaths per million. All deaths are tragic but if you are quoting deaths do not mislead people.. Thank you for providing this. It confirms what I thought- namely that the UK did not have the highest death rate . Recent figures on the 14 day moving average also confirm that the UK does not have the highest death rate. If I have any spare time later I will paste in the 14 day moving average figures for a number of countries. That’s obviously without the 15 million who were removed from the death toll a few months ago. The tories are so good that people are reborn once they’ve died from Covid. Let’s celebrate! This confirms you are deluded if you are suggesting 15 million Brits have died and nobody has noticed them missing.! Have you heard of excess deaths and also the number of deaths related to Covid being brought down a few months ago? Probably not. You’re so in love with blondie that you live in fantasyland. " Yes I have heard of it and I believe the figures was round about 5 thousand that was removed from the covid death tally. A big difference from the 15 million you are suggesting, which would be just shy of a quarter of the UK population. | |||
"Hi. I am always happy to accept guidance and advice from other people.That is how we progress in life . However I have never paid too much attraction to the Woke mob who are constantly using social media to express their views in a very forcefull manner . They are simply a very forcefully but small minority . What matters is what happens out in the real world and what the silent majority think ( a vocal minority are by and large irrelevant ). The results of the December 2019 election are probably self explanatory. These are the people that we elected to run the country, not the woke mob on twitter You’re right they have been elected? They’ve been elected for Brexit. Did you see the following on the ballot paper? No deal brexit Highest death rate in Europe from Covid Refusal to feed the poorest children Breaking international law Etc... By the way, when you’re stuck on a topic and running out of arguments, do you create another without answering the previous questions you were stuck on? You’re right, you could work for the current gvt. Amazing how you like fudge what the death rate actually is in Europe. Death rate is the ratio of death to the population of a particular area. In this case it is countries in Europe. The death rate in Europe is currently at. San Marino 1237 deaths per million. Belgium 931 deaths per million. Andorra 893 deaths per million. Spain 743 deaths per million. UK 660 deaths per million. Italy 618 deaths per million. All deaths are tragic but if you are quoting deaths do not mislead people.. Thank you for providing this. It confirms what I thought- namely that the UK did not have the highest death rate . Recent figures on the 14 day moving average also confirm that the UK does not have the highest death rate. If I have any spare time later I will paste in the 14 day moving average figures for a number of countries. That’s obviously without the 15 million who were removed from the death toll a few months ago. The tories are so good that people are reborn once they’ve died from Covid. Let’s celebrate! This confirms you are deluded if you are suggesting 15 million Brits have died and nobody has noticed them missing.! Have you heard of excess deaths and also the number of deaths related to Covid being brought down a few months ago? Probably not. You’re so in love with blondie that you live in fantasyland. " Ive not heard anything about 15m excess deaths that the tories removed from the toll.. | |||
"Hi. I am always happy to accept guidance and advice from other people.That is how we progress in life . However I have never paid too much attraction to the Woke mob who are constantly using social media to express their views in a very forcefull manner . They are simply a very forcefully but small minority . What matters is what happens out in the real world and what the silent majority think ( a vocal minority are by and large irrelevant ). The results of the December 2019 election are probably self explanatory. These are the people that we elected to run the country, not the woke mob on twitter You’re right they have been elected? They’ve been elected for Brexit. Did you see the following on the ballot paper? No deal brexit Highest death rate in Europe from Covid Refusal to feed the poorest children Breaking international law Etc... By the way, when you’re stuck on a topic and running out of arguments, do you create another without answering the previous questions you were stuck on? You’re right, you could work for the current gvt. Amazing how you like fudge what the death rate actually is in Europe. Death rate is the ratio of death to the population of a particular area. In this case it is countries in Europe. The death rate in Europe is currently at. San Marino 1237 deaths per million. Belgium 931 deaths per million. Andorra 893 deaths per million. Spain 743 deaths per million. UK 660 deaths per million. Italy 618 deaths per million. All deaths are tragic but if you are quoting deaths do not mislead people." You’re correct we’re not the worst in Europe or the world per head but taking into account the relative size of population and industrial economic output. We’d be better compared to France , Italy and Germany otherwise you are, as said in a previous post comparing apples with oranges. It’s unfair to compare us to Fiji or India on the same basis. With our peers we are the worst. | |||
"Hi. I am always happy to accept guidance and advice from other people.That is how we progress in life . However I have never paid too much attraction to the Woke mob who are constantly using social media to express their views in a very forcefull manner . They are simply a very forcefully but small minority . What matters is what happens out in the real world and what the silent majority think ( a vocal minority are by and large irrelevant ). The results of the December 2019 election are probably self explanatory. These are the people that we elected to run the country, not the woke mob on twitter You’re right they have been elected? They’ve been elected for Brexit. Did you see the following on the ballot paper? No deal brexit Highest death rate in Europe from Covid Refusal to feed the poorest children Breaking international law Etc... By the way, when you’re stuck on a topic and running out of arguments, do you create another without answering the previous questions you were stuck on? You’re right, you could work for the current gvt. Amazing how you like fudge what the death rate actually is in Europe. Death rate is the ratio of death to the population of a particular area. In this case it is countries in Europe. The death rate in Europe is currently at. San Marino 1237 deaths per million. Belgium 931 deaths per million. Andorra 893 deaths per million. Spain 743 deaths per million. UK 660 deaths per million. Italy 618 deaths per million. All deaths are tragic but if you are quoting deaths do not mislead people.. Thank you for providing this. It confirms what I thought- namely that the UK did not have the highest death rate . Recent figures on the 14 day moving average also confirm that the UK does not have the highest death rate. If I have any spare time later I will paste in the 14 day moving average figures for a number of countries. That’s obviously without the 15 million who were removed from the death toll a few months ago. The tories are so good that people are reborn once they’ve died from Covid. Let’s celebrate! This confirms you are deluded if you are suggesting 15 million Brits have died and nobody has noticed them missing.! Have you heard of excess deaths and also the number of deaths related to Covid being brought down a few months ago? Probably not. You’re so in love with blondie that you live in fantasyland. Yes I have heard of it and I believe the figures was round about 5 thousand that was removed from the covid death tally. A big difference from the 15 million you are suggesting, which would be just shy of a quarter of the UK population. " Oops I meant 5 thousand. Still a mystery though. They’ve suddenly died from something else. The number was changed overnight during the summer when people were on holiday and the crisis had temporarily gone away. But we know this was done honestly. We know how reliable and truthful this gvt is. | |||
"Hi. I am always happy to accept guidance and advice from other people.That is how we progress in life . However I have never paid too much attraction to the Woke mob who are constantly using social media to express their views in a very forcefull manner . They are simply a very forcefully but small minority . What matters is what happens out in the real world and what the silent majority think ( a vocal minority are by and large irrelevant ). The results of the December 2019 election are probably self explanatory. These are the people that we elected to run the country, not the woke mob on twitter You’re right they have been elected? They’ve been elected for Brexit. Did you see the following on the ballot paper? No deal brexit Highest death rate in Europe from Covid Refusal to feed the poorest children Breaking international law Etc... By the way, when you’re stuck on a topic and running out of arguments, do you create another without answering the previous questions you were stuck on? You’re right, you could work for the current gvt. Amazing how you like fudge what the death rate actually is in Europe. Death rate is the ratio of death to the population of a particular area. In this case it is countries in Europe. The death rate in Europe is currently at. San Marino 1237 deaths per million. Belgium 931 deaths per million. Andorra 893 deaths per million. Spain 743 deaths per million. UK 660 deaths per million. Italy 618 deaths per million. All deaths are tragic but if you are quoting deaths do not mislead people.. Thank you for providing this. It confirms what I thought- namely that the UK did not have the highest death rate . Recent figures on the 14 day moving average also confirm that the UK does not have the highest death rate. If I have any spare time later I will paste in the 14 day moving average figures for a number of countries. That’s obviously without the 15 million who were removed from the death toll a few months ago. The tories are so good that people are reborn once they’ve died from Covid. Let’s celebrate! This confirms you are deluded if you are suggesting 15 million Brits have died and nobody has noticed them missing.! Have you heard of excess deaths and also the number of deaths related to Covid being brought down a few months ago? Probably not. You’re so in love with blondie that you live in fantasyland. Yes I have heard of it and I believe the figures was round about 5 thousand that was removed from the covid death tally. A big difference from the 15 million you are suggesting, which would be just shy of a quarter of the UK population. Oops I meant 5 thousand. Still a mystery though. They’ve suddenly died from something else. The number was changed overnight during the summer when people were on holiday and the crisis had temporarily gone away. But we know this was done honestly. We know how reliable and truthful this gvt is. " The reason was given at the time. I can as well as you look it up but I'm fed up being the Google on here correcting all the false statements posted each time. However I do believe that the UK is one of the most honest countries posting its death tally. I've noticed Spain quite regularly don't post their daily deaths. Does anyone actually belive China or Russia post true daily deaths? | |||
"Hi. I am always happy to accept guidance and advice from other people.That is how we progress in life . However I have never paid too much attraction to the Woke mob who are constantly using social media to express their views in a very forcefull manner . They are simply a very forcefully but small minority . What matters is what happens out in the real world and what the silent majority think ( a vocal minority are by and large irrelevant ). The results of the December 2019 election are probably self explanatory. These are the people that we elected to run the country, not the woke mob on twitter You’re right they have been elected? They’ve been elected for Brexit. Did you see the following on the ballot paper? No deal brexit Highest death rate in Europe from Covid Refusal to feed the poorest children Breaking international law Etc... By the way, when you’re stuck on a topic and running out of arguments, do you create another without answering the previous questions you were stuck on? You’re right, you could work for the current gvt. Amazing how you like fudge what the death rate actually is in Europe. Death rate is the ratio of death to the population of a particular area. In this case it is countries in Europe. The death rate in Europe is currently at. San Marino 1237 deaths per million. Belgium 931 deaths per million. Andorra 893 deaths per million. Spain 743 deaths per million. UK 660 deaths per million. Italy 618 deaths per million. All deaths are tragic but if you are quoting deaths do not mislead people.. Thank you for providing this. It confirms what I thought- namely that the UK did not have the highest death rate . Recent figures on the 14 day moving average also confirm that the UK does not have the highest death rate. If I have any spare time later I will paste in the 14 day moving average figures for a number of countries. That’s obviously without the 15 million who were removed from the death toll a few months ago. The tories are so good that people are reborn once they’ve died from Covid. Let’s celebrate! This confirms you are deluded if you are suggesting 15 million Brits have died and nobody has noticed them missing.! Have you heard of excess deaths and also the number of deaths related to Covid being brought down a few months ago? Probably not. You’re so in love with blondie that you live in fantasyland. Yes I have heard of it and I believe the figures was round about 5 thousand that was removed from the covid death tally. A big difference from the 15 million you are suggesting, which would be just shy of a quarter of the UK population. Oops I meant 5 thousand. Still a mystery though. They’ve suddenly died from something else. The number was changed overnight during the summer when people were on holiday and the crisis had temporarily gone away. But we know this was done honestly. We know how reliable and truthful this gvt is. " It was reported on msm at the time and the reasons were given too, whether its bullshit or not you decide but it was not hidden or done on the sly. | |||
"Op your delusional.. Seek help.. The massive expansion of the operation from what we could do back in January to what we are doing now surely deserves some recognition? Massive testing and tracking doesn't just grow on trees (unlike the money )
Granted, however anyone looking at it now with any semblance of objective comparison to others would never say it was world beating..
It's cost in excess of £9 billion and has many areas of performance not up to scratch, even Boris fessed up partially last week..
Rolls Royce yes a UK success, track and trace a work in progress..
Perhaps some like the OP see it as a success given they view Brexit in similar vein, suppose it's where one sets the standard..
A work in progress yes..
Interesting to hear the minister this morning talking about the large number of data points and transparency of the data - it becomes very easy to pick out one underperforming point and escalate this to represent a massively ”failing” system.
We do now appear to be testing at such scale it dwarfs our nearest and dearest friends... maybe not world beating yet, but certainly Europe beating ?
If the system is not efficient in following up the testing then we can test a million a day and there will still be flaws..
The whole emphasis seems to be on setting out high figures of testing as an indicator of success rather than going forward with as effective as possible the tracking and tracing which is fundamental..
Interestingly the local track and trace figures make the ones the op refers to look less than average let alone a success..
To give a point, I got a notification saying I'd been in contact with a COVID positive person at a period of time where this was impossible unless it was referring to exposure 6 days prior.
To explain, before the message I had not left the house for 6 days, bar morning running, in which the only people who were near me, were those in the cars and busses passing me.
So, unless the app detected that, it means it took 6 days for me to get an alert from the last time I went to the office - no call either. Just a message on the app stating exposure and an instruction to isolate for 10 days due to being near to a COVID positive case.
You do realise that there is an incubation time for this virus and a period of time where you can be contagious before showing symptoms as well as the asymptomatic carriers.
It is totally plausible that you contacted someone with covid who only got a test and their results 6 days later. I hope you self isolated rather than dismissed it like you are doing here...
I isolated in line with the guidance - given the police have access to the app data I'd never chance leaving the house whilst being told to isolate.
I think you need re-read the text though.
I went to the office 6 days prior to receiving the alert to isolate. That was 5 mornings where I left the house to go running as everything was okay as far as I could tell. On the 5th evening I received the app alert. And then proceeded to isolate for 10 days.
Our office is following PHE guidelines and we are alerted to how many cases are positive within our building - and as we are on either rotas to come in, or book to go in only when needed, we are informed if we were in a building where a positive case occurred.
I received no notification from work that a case was positive on the day I went in. Nor was anyone else.
As such exposure must have occurred in transit too or from work.
Yes, I'm aware that often there is an asymptomatic incubation period for this, and many viruses.
It just seems given the rates of poor contact tracing, Vs the average of a 3 day asymptomatic period, before someone develops symptoms, it's more likely that this is an example of poor contact tracing.
3 days asymptomatic, 1 day to get a test, 1 day to get results = your notification 5 days after contact.
3 days may be the average however i believe 7 days is the number used. Your confidence in your workplace procedure is admirable however does it rely on everyone telling the truth? Does it account for visitors on site?
"I'm confident as I work in an NHS building, so I expect my colleagues to demonstrate committment to keeping one another and patients safe. If someone entered the building knowing they had COVID symptoms or had been told to isolate, they'd be in a difficult situation. So to conclude, I very much doubt that my alert came through work, there would have been contact via our management telling us to isolate. | |||
"Hi. I am always happy to accept guidance and advice from other people.That is how we progress in life . However I have never paid too much attraction to the Woke mob who are constantly using social media to express their views in a very forcefull manner . They are simply a very forcefully but small minority . What matters is what happens out in the real world and what the silent majority think ( a vocal minority are by and large irrelevant ). The results of the December 2019 election are probably self explanatory. These are the people that we elected to run the country, not the woke mob on twitter You’re right they have been elected? They’ve been elected for Brexit. Did you see the following on the ballot paper? No deal brexit Highest death rate in Europe from Covid Refusal to feed the poorest children Breaking international law Etc... By the way, when you’re stuck on a topic and running out of arguments, do you create another without answering the previous questions you were stuck on? You’re right, you could work for the current gvt. Amazing how you like fudge what the death rate actually is in Europe. Death rate is the ratio of death to the population of a particular area. In this case it is countries in Europe. The death rate in Europe is currently at. San Marino 1237 deaths per million. Belgium 931 deaths per million. Andorra 893 deaths per million. Spain 743 deaths per million. UK 660 deaths per million. Italy 618 deaths per million. All deaths are tragic but if you are quoting deaths do not mislead people.. Thank you for providing this. It confirms what I thought- namely that the UK did not have the highest death rate . Recent figures on the 14 day moving average also confirm that the UK does not have the highest death rate. If I have any spare time later I will paste in the 14 day moving average figures for a number of countries. That’s obviously without the 15 million who were removed from the death toll a few months ago. The tories are so good that people are reborn once they’ve died from Covid. Let’s celebrate! This confirms you are deluded if you are suggesting 15 million Brits have died and nobody has noticed them missing.! Have you heard of excess deaths and also the number of deaths related to Covid being brought down a few months ago? Probably not. You’re so in love with blondie that you live in fantasyland. Yes I have heard of it and I believe the figures was round about 5 thousand that was removed from the covid death tally. A big difference from the 15 million you are suggesting, which would be just shy of a quarter of the UK population. Oops I meant 5 thousand. Still a mystery though. They’ve suddenly died from something else. The number was changed overnight during the summer when people were on holiday and the crisis had temporarily gone away. But we know this was done honestly. We know how reliable and truthful this gvt is. It was reported on msm at the time and the reasons were given too, whether its bullshit or not you decide but it was not hidden or done on the sly." I am not sure we had a press conference or clear explanations on this. In the meantime, the world beating track and trace system was front, back and centre of newspapers with all the bullshit Johnson and Hancock are good at. | |||
"Hi. I am always happy to accept guidance and advice from other people.That is how we progress in life . However I have never paid too much attraction to the Woke mob who are constantly using social media to express their views in a very forcefull manner . They are simply a very forcefully but small minority . What matters is what happens out in the real world and what the silent majority think ( a vocal minority are by and large irrelevant ). The results of the December 2019 election are probably self explanatory. These are the people that we elected to run the country, not the woke mob on twitter You’re right they have been elected? They’ve been elected for Brexit. Did you see the following on the ballot paper? No deal brexit Highest death rate in Europe from Covid Refusal to feed the poorest children Breaking international law Etc... By the way, when you’re stuck on a topic and running out of arguments, do you create another without answering the previous questions you were stuck on? You’re right, you could work for the current gvt. Amazing how you like fudge what the death rate actually is in Europe. Death rate is the ratio of death to the population of a particular area. In this case it is countries in Europe. The death rate in Europe is currently at. San Marino 1237 deaths per million. Belgium 931 deaths per million. Andorra 893 deaths per million. Spain 743 deaths per million. UK 660 deaths per million. Italy 618 deaths per million. All deaths are tragic but if you are quoting deaths do not mislead people.. Thank you for providing this. It confirms what I thought- namely that the UK did not have the highest death rate . Recent figures on the 14 day moving average also confirm that the UK does not have the highest death rate. If I have any spare time later I will paste in the 14 day moving average figures for a number of countries. That’s obviously without the 15 million who were removed from the death toll a few months ago. The tories are so good that people are reborn once they’ve died from Covid. Let’s celebrate! This confirms you are deluded if you are suggesting 15 million Brits have died and nobody has noticed them missing.! Have you heard of excess deaths and also the number of deaths related to Covid being brought down a few months ago? Probably not. You’re so in love with blondie that you live in fantasyland. Yes I have heard of it and I believe the figures was round about 5 thousand that was removed from the covid death tally. A big difference from the 15 million you are suggesting, which would be just shy of a quarter of the UK population. Oops I meant 5 thousand. Still a mystery though. They’ve suddenly died from something else. The number was changed overnight during the summer when people were on holiday and the crisis had temporarily gone away. But we know this was done honestly. We know how reliable and truthful this gvt is. It was reported on msm at the time and the reasons were given too, whether its bullshit or not you decide but it was not hidden or done on the sly." The figures are supplied by the ONS, not the Goverment. | |||
"Hi. I am always happy to accept guidance and advice from other people.That is how we progress in life . However I have never paid too much attraction to the Woke mob who are constantly using social media to express their views in a very forcefull manner . They are simply a very forcefully but small minority . What matters is what happens out in the real world and what the silent majority think ( a vocal minority are by and large irrelevant ). The results of the December 2019 election are probably self explanatory. These are the people that we elected to run the country, not the woke mob on twitter You’re right they have been elected? They’ve been elected for Brexit. Did you see the following on the ballot paper? No deal brexit Highest death rate in Europe from Covid Refusal to feed the poorest children Breaking international law Etc... By the way, when you’re stuck on a topic and running out of arguments, do you create another without answering the previous questions you were stuck on? You’re right, you could work for the current gvt. Amazing how you like fudge what the death rate actually is in Europe. Death rate is the ratio of death to the population of a particular area. In this case it is countries in Europe. The death rate in Europe is currently at. San Marino 1237 deaths per million. Belgium 931 deaths per million. Andorra 893 deaths per million. Spain 743 deaths per million. UK 660 deaths per million. Italy 618 deaths per million. All deaths are tragic but if you are quoting deaths do not mislead people.. Thank you for providing this. It confirms what I thought- namely that the UK did not have the highest death rate . Recent figures on the 14 day moving average also confirm that the UK does not have the highest death rate. If I have any spare time later I will paste in the 14 day moving average figures for a number of countries. That’s obviously without the 15 million who were removed from the death toll a few months ago. The tories are so good that people are reborn once they’ve died from Covid. Let’s celebrate! This confirms you are deluded if you are suggesting 15 million Brits have died and nobody has noticed them missing.! Have you heard of excess deaths and also the number of deaths related to Covid being brought down a few months ago? Probably not. You’re so in love with blondie that you live in fantasyland. Yes I have heard of it and I believe the figures was round about 5 thousand that was removed from the covid death tally. A big difference from the 15 million you are suggesting, which would be just shy of a quarter of the UK population. Oops I meant 5 thousand. Still a mystery though. They’ve suddenly died from something else. The number was changed overnight during the summer when people were on holiday and the crisis had temporarily gone away. But we know this was done honestly. We know how reliable and truthful this gvt is. It was reported on msm at the time and the reasons were given too, whether its bullshit or not you decide but it was not hidden or done on the sly. I am not sure we had a press conference or clear explanations on this. In the meantime, the world beating track and trace system was front, back and centre of newspapers with all the bullshit Johnson and Hancock are good at. " Not sure about a press conference, I really can't remember, but then I never said that there had been one, just that it was reported across the msm and not covered up. I cant be arsed to Google to see if there was a conference or not, not that it makes a blind bit of difference to the situation where we are now. | |||
"Hi. I am always happy to accept guidance and advice from other people.That is how we progress in life . However I have never paid too much attraction to the Woke mob who are constantly using social media to express their views in a very forcefull manner . They are simply a very forcefully but small minority . What matters is what happens out in the real world and what the silent majority think ( a vocal minority are by and large irrelevant ). The results of the December 2019 election are probably self explanatory. These are the people that we elected to run the country, not the woke mob on twitter You’re right they have been elected? They’ve been elected for Brexit. Did you see the following on the ballot paper? No deal brexit Highest death rate in Europe from Covid Refusal to feed the poorest children Breaking international law Etc... By the way, when you’re stuck on a topic and running out of arguments, do you create another without answering the previous questions you were stuck on? You’re right, you could work for the current gvt. Amazing how you like fudge what the death rate actually is in Europe. Death rate is the ratio of death to the population of a particular area. In this case it is countries in Europe. The death rate in Europe is currently at. San Marino 1237 deaths per million. Belgium 931 deaths per million. Andorra 893 deaths per million. Spain 743 deaths per million. UK 660 deaths per million. Italy 618 deaths per million. All deaths are tragic but if you are quoting deaths do not mislead people.. Thank you for providing this. It confirms what I thought- namely that the UK did not have the highest death rate . Recent figures on the 14 day moving average also confirm that the UK does not have the highest death rate. If I have any spare time later I will paste in the 14 day moving average figures for a number of countries. That’s obviously without the 15 million who were removed from the death toll a few months ago. The tories are so good that people are reborn once they’ve died from Covid. Let’s celebrate! This confirms you are deluded if you are suggesting 15 million Brits have died and nobody has noticed them missing.! Have you heard of excess deaths and also the number of deaths related to Covid being brought down a few months ago? Probably not. You’re so in love with blondie that you live in fantasyland. Yes I have heard of it and I believe the figures was round about 5 thousand that was removed from the covid death tally. A big difference from the 15 million you are suggesting, which would be just shy of a quarter of the UK population. Oops I meant 5 thousand. Still a mystery though. They’ve suddenly died from something else. The number was changed overnight during the summer when people were on holiday and the crisis had temporarily gone away. But we know this was done honestly. We know how reliable and truthful this gvt is. It was reported on msm at the time and the reasons were given too, whether its bullshit or not you decide but it was not hidden or done on the sly. The figures are supplied by the ONS, not the Goverment. " I am not the one disputing them mate its _exy7 who has an issue with them. | |||
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"Hi. I am always happy to accept guidance and advice from other people.That is how we progress in life . However I have never paid too much attraction to the Woke mob who are constantly using social media to express their views in a very forcefull manner . They are simply a very forcefully but small minority . What matters is what happens out in the real world and what the silent majority think ( a vocal minority are by and large irrelevant ). The results of the December 2019 election are probably self explanatory. These are the people that we elected to run the country, not the woke mob on twitter You’re right they have been elected? They’ve been elected for Brexit. Did you see the following on the ballot paper? No deal brexit Highest death rate in Europe from Covid Refusal to feed the poorest children Breaking international law Etc... By the way, when you’re stuck on a topic and running out of arguments, do you create another without answering the previous questions you were stuck on? You’re right, you could work for the current gvt. Amazing how you like fudge what the death rate actually is in Europe. Death rate is the ratio of death to the population of a particular area. In this case it is countries in Europe. The death rate in Europe is currently at. San Marino 1237 deaths per million. Belgium 931 deaths per million. Andorra 893 deaths per million. Spain 743 deaths per million. UK 660 deaths per million. Italy 618 deaths per million. All deaths are tragic but if you are quoting deaths do not mislead people.. Thank you for providing this. It confirms what I thought- namely that the UK did not have the highest death rate . Recent figures on the 14 day moving average also confirm that the UK does not have the highest death rate. If I have any spare time later I will paste in the 14 day moving average figures for a number of countries. That’s obviously without the 15 million who were removed from the death toll a few months ago. The tories are so good that people are reborn once they’ve died from Covid. Let’s celebrate! This confirms you are deluded if you are suggesting 15 million Brits have died and nobody has noticed them missing.! Have you heard of excess deaths and also the number of deaths related to Covid being brought down a few months ago? Probably not. You’re so in love with blondie that you live in fantasyland. Yes I have heard of it and I believe the figures was round about 5 thousand that was removed from the covid death tally. A big difference from the 15 million you are suggesting, which would be just shy of a quarter of the UK population. Oops I meant 5 thousand. Still a mystery though. They’ve suddenly died from something else. The number was changed overnight during the summer when people were on holiday and the crisis had temporarily gone away. But we know this was done honestly. We know how reliable and truthful this gvt is. It was reported on msm at the time and the reasons were given too, whether its bullshit or not you decide but it was not hidden or done on the sly. I am not sure we had a press conference or clear explanations on this. In the meantime, the world beating track and trace system was front, back and centre of newspapers with all the bullshit Johnson and Hancock are good at. Not sure about a press conference, I really can't remember, but then I never said that there had been one, just that it was reported across the msm and not covered up. I cant be arsed to Google to see if there was a conference or not, not that it makes a blind bit of difference to the situation where we are now." Sorry for misunderstanding. I didn’t say that you’d said there had been a press conference. I meant that we’ve had numerous press conferences since the start of this crisis so I’m surprised they didn’t have one on this and the explanations were ultra thin with very little coverage. I’ve been following this crisis pretty closely and I felt that there was very little communication on this at the time in comparison of the moonshot thing, world beating app, wonderful track and trace etc. We got up one day with 5000 fewer deaths than the day with very little explanation... | |||
"Hi. I am always happy to accept guidance and advice from other people.That is how we progress in life . However I have never paid too much attraction to the Woke mob who are constantly using social media to express their views in a very forcefull manner . They are simply a very forcefully but small minority . What matters is what happens out in the real world and what the silent majority think ( a vocal minority are by and large irrelevant ). The results of the December 2019 election are probably self explanatory. These are the people that we elected to run the country, not the woke mob on twitter You’re right they have been elected? They’ve been elected for Brexit. Did you see the following on the ballot paper? No deal brexit Highest death rate in Europe from Covid Refusal to feed the poorest children Breaking international law Etc... By the way, when you’re stuck on a topic and running out of arguments, do you create another without answering the previous questions you were stuck on? You’re right, you could work for the current gvt. Amazing how you like fudge what the death rate actually is in Europe. Death rate is the ratio of death to the population of a particular area. In this case it is countries in Europe. The death rate in Europe is currently at. San Marino 1237 deaths per million. Belgium 931 deaths per million. Andorra 893 deaths per million. Spain 743 deaths per million. UK 660 deaths per million. Italy 618 deaths per million. All deaths are tragic but if you are quoting deaths do not mislead people.. Thank you for providing this. It confirms what I thought- namely that the UK did not have the highest death rate . Recent figures on the 14 day moving average also confirm that the UK does not have the highest death rate. If I have any spare time later I will paste in the 14 day moving average figures for a number of countries. That’s obviously without the 15 million who were removed from the death toll a few months ago. The tories are so good that people are reborn once they’ve died from Covid. Let’s celebrate! This confirms you are deluded if you are suggesting 15 million Brits have died and nobody has noticed them missing.! Have you heard of excess deaths and also the number of deaths related to Covid being brought down a few months ago? Probably not. You’re so in love with blondie that you live in fantasyland. Yes I have heard of it and I believe the figures was round about 5 thousand that was removed from the covid death tally. A big difference from the 15 million you are suggesting, which would be just shy of a quarter of the UK population. Oops I meant 5 thousand. Still a mystery though. They’ve suddenly died from something else. The number was changed overnight during the summer when people were on holiday and the crisis had temporarily gone away. But we know this was done honestly. We know how reliable and truthful this gvt is. It was reported on msm at the time and the reasons were given too, whether its bullshit or not you decide but it was not hidden or done on the sly. The figures are supplied by the ONS, not the Goverment. "
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"Op your delusional.. Seek help.. The massive expansion of the operation from what we could do back in January to what we are doing now surely deserves some recognition? Massive testing and tracking doesn't just grow on trees (unlike the money )
Granted, however anyone looking at it now with any semblance of objective comparison to others would never say it was world beating..
It's cost in excess of £9 billion and has many areas of performance not up to scratch, even Boris fessed up partially last week..
Rolls Royce yes a UK success, track and trace a work in progress..
Perhaps some like the OP see it as a success given they view Brexit in similar vein, suppose it's where one sets the standard..
A work in progress yes..
Interesting to hear the minister this morning talking about the large number of data points and transparency of the data - it becomes very easy to pick out one underperforming point and escalate this to represent a massively ”failing” system.
We do now appear to be testing at such scale it dwarfs our nearest and dearest friends... maybe not world beating yet, but certainly Europe beating ?
If the system is not efficient in following up the testing then we can test a million a day and there will still be flaws..
The whole emphasis seems to be on setting out high figures of testing as an indicator of success rather than going forward with as effective as possible the tracking and tracing which is fundamental..
Interestingly the local track and trace figures make the ones the op refers to look less than average let alone a success..
To give a point, I got a notification saying I'd been in contact with a COVID positive person at a period of time where this was impossible unless it was referring to exposure 6 days prior.
To explain, before the message I had not left the house for 6 days, bar morning running, in which the only people who were near me, were those in the cars and busses passing me.
So, unless the app detected that, it means it took 6 days for me to get an alert from the last time I went to the office - no call either. Just a message on the app stating exposure and an instruction to isolate for 10 days due to being near to a COVID positive case.
You do realise that there is an incubation time for this virus and a period of time where you can be contagious before showing symptoms as well as the asymptomatic carriers.
It is totally plausible that you contacted someone with covid who only got a test and their results 6 days later. I hope you self isolated rather than dismissed it like you are doing here...
I isolated in line with the guidance - given the police have access to the app data I'd never chance leaving the house whilst being told to isolate.
I think you need re-read the text though.
I went to the office 6 days prior to receiving the alert to isolate. That was 5 mornings where I left the house to go running as everything was okay as far as I could tell. On the 5th evening I received the app alert. And then proceeded to isolate for 10 days.
Our office is following PHE guidelines and we are alerted to how many cases are positive within our building - and as we are on either rotas to come in, or book to go in only when needed, we are informed if we were in a building where a positive case occurred.
I received no notification from work that a case was positive on the day I went in. Nor was anyone else.
As such exposure must have occurred in transit too or from work.
Yes, I'm aware that often there is an asymptomatic incubation period for this, and many viruses.
It just seems given the rates of poor contact tracing, Vs the average of a 3 day asymptomatic period, before someone develops symptoms, it's more likely that this is an example of poor contact tracing.
3 days asymptomatic, 1 day to get a test, 1 day to get results = your notification 5 days after contact.
3 days may be the average however i believe 7 days is the number used. Your confidence in your workplace procedure is admirable however does it rely on everyone telling the truth? Does it account for visitors on site?
I'm confident as I work in an NHS building, so I expect my colleagues to demonstrate committment to keeping one another and patients safe.
If someone entered the building knowing they had COVID symptoms or had been told to isolate, they'd be in a difficult situation.
So to conclude, I very much doubt that my alert came through work, there would have been contact via our management telling us to isolate."The point is that if they are asymptomatic at the time they might not know and anyone reporting the infection to work might not judge how long they have been affected the same way the track and trace app does. Ie, you and the infected person are in work together on the first of the month, they feel unwell on the 5th, and its assumed they where infectious from the 2nd so you dont recieve a notification from work. Track and trace assume 7 days so they do send you a notification. | |||
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"There is an error in your headline- Track and Trace only applies to England and Wales....." Pat's used to errors in most things what he posts | |||
"There is an error in your headline- Track and Trace only applies to England and Wales....." | |||
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"Hi. I am always happy to accept guidance and advice from other people.That is how we progress in life . However I have never paid too much attraction to the Woke mob who are constantly using social media to express their views in a very forcefull manner . They are simply a very forcefully but small minority . What matters is what happens out in the real world and what the silent majority think ( a vocal minority are by and large irrelevant ). The results of the December 2019 election are probably self explanatory. These are the people that we elected to run the country, not the woke mob on twitter " Come on Pat, you do realise the term Woke is used as a compliment ? What is the opposite of Woke? Asleep | |||
"Documents been leaked revealing special procurement channels for VIPs and cabinet ministers Opportunities for 35-45%profit margins during the crises. " What documents are these then? | |||
"Documents been leaked revealing special procurement channels for VIPs and cabinet ministers Opportunities for 35-45%profit margins during the crises. " .Hi . I do not think many people would pay too much attention to a leaked document. If the source is a civil servant they may have breached the civil service code of conduct and are possibly liable to prosecution. We can safely assume that those who choose to leak documents have a rather low standard of honesty and an inflated opinion of their own self importance. | |||
"Documents been leaked revealing special procurement channels for VIPs and cabinet ministers Opportunities for 35-45%profit margins during the crises. .Hi . I do not think many people would pay too much attention to a leaked document. If the source is a civil servant they may have breached the civil service code of conduct and are possibly liable to prosecution. We can safely assume that those who choose to leak documents have a rather low standard of honesty and an inflated opinion of their own self importance. " ?? Goebells would have been proud of you | |||
"Documents been leaked revealing special procurement channels for VIPs and cabinet ministers Opportunities for 35-45%profit margins during the crises. What documents are these then? " You won't get proof from linus till the docs he typed up have had the ink dry.  | |||
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"Source ..The good law project. I'm not posting a link as I dont want a ban." Best not you may get caught out altering the words from the original. | |||
"Source ..The good law project. I'm not posting a link as I dont want a ban." However a leaked document is hardly a reliable source. The article itself appears to express an opinion, not provide any evidence if any wrong doing . An organisation uploading a stolen document onto its website can hardly claim an moral superiority. Will they be reporting the theft to the police ? | |||
"Documents been leaked revealing special procurement channels for VIPs and cabinet ministers Opportunities for 35-45%profit margins during the crises. .Hi . I do not think many people would pay too much attention to a leaked document. If the source is a civil servant they may have breached the civil service code of conduct and are possibly liable to prosecution. We can safely assume that those who choose to leak documents have a rather low standard of honesty and an inflated opinion of their own self importance. " You are clearly unaware that whistle blower policies are in every area of the public sector and are protected in law.. Come on pat wake up.. | |||
"Source ..The good law project. I'm not posting a link as I dont want a ban.However a leaked document is hardly a reliable source. The article itself appears to express an opinion, not provide any evidence if any wrong doing . An organisation uploading a stolen document onto its website can hardly claim an moral superiority. Will they be reporting the theft to the police ? " Pat, you need to take minute and look at the good law website in relation to this.. Unless a person is corrupt themselves they will be wondering how much public money has been wasted in giving multi million pound contracts to companies, some linked to Tory MPs and affiliates where they are clearly not in the field of PPE provision.. And some of the PPE could not be used as it was sub standard at a time when the nurses and doctors in the NHS were desperate for it.. | |||
"Source ..The good law project. I'm not posting a link as I dont want a ban.However a leaked document is hardly a reliable source. The article itself appears to express an opinion, not provide any evidence if any wrong doing . An organisation uploading a stolen document onto its website can hardly claim an moral superiority. Will they be reporting the theft to the police ? Pat, you need to take minute and look at the good law website in relation to this.. Unless a person is corrupt themselves they will be wondering how much public money has been wasted in giving multi million pound contracts to companies, some linked to Tory MPs and affiliates where they are clearly not in the field of PPE provision.. And some of the PPE could not be used as it was sub standard at a time when the nurses and doctors in the NHS were desperate for it.. " Well its possible to look at it another way. What alternative testing companies are available? The answer is non no matter who owns them right now everyone trained to carry out testing is doing so. Or do you think there are many companies not being used because they are not Tory owned? | |||
"Source ..The good law project. I'm not posting a link as I dont want a ban.However a leaked document is hardly a reliable source. The article itself appears to express an opinion, not provide any evidence if any wrong doing . An organisation uploading a stolen document onto its website can hardly claim an moral superiority. Will they be reporting the theft to the police ? Pat, you need to take minute and look at the good law website in relation to this.. Unless a person is corrupt themselves they will be wondering how much public money has been wasted in giving multi million pound contracts to companies, some linked to Tory MPs and affiliates where they are clearly not in the field of PPE provision.. And some of the PPE could not be used as it was sub standard at a time when the nurses and doctors in the NHS were desperate for it.. Well its possible to look at it another way. What alternative testing companies are available? The answer is non no matter who owns them right now everyone trained to carry out testing is doing so. Or do you think there are many companies not being used because they are not Tory owned? " I was referring to the information specifically regarding the information about some PPE provision not testing.. It's on their website should you wish to look.. | |||
"Documents been leaked revealing special procurement channels for VIPs and cabinet ministers Opportunities for 35-45%profit margins during the crises. .Hi . I do not think many people would pay too much attention to a leaked document. If the source is a civil servant they may have breached the civil service code of conduct and are possibly liable to prosecution. We can safely assume that those who choose to leak documents have a rather low standard of honesty and an inflated opinion of their own self importance. " What!!! " We can safely assume those shining a light on corruption have a rather low standard of honesty and an inflated opinion of their own self importance " That's probably the most ludicrous thing I've ever read on anywhere and even advances on your often strange comments Pat. | |||
"Source ..The good law project. I'm not posting a link as I dont want a ban.However a leaked document is hardly a reliable source. The article itself appears to express an opinion, not provide any evidence if any wrong doing . An organisation uploading a stolen document onto its website can hardly claim an moral superiority. Will they be reporting the theft to the police ? " I guess you're against whistle-blowing too and feel they deserve the sack without appeal | |||
"Documents been leaked revealing special procurement channels for VIPs and cabinet ministers Opportunities for 35-45%profit margins during the crises. .Hi . I do not think many people would pay too much attention to a leaked document. If the source is a civil servant they may have breached the civil service code of conduct and are possibly liable to prosecution. We can safely assume that those who choose to leak documents have a rather low standard of honesty and an inflated opinion of their own self importance. You are clearly unaware that whistle blower policies are in every area of the public sector and are protected in law.. Come on pat wake up.." However there is a massive difference between following the correct procedure for whistle blowing and uploading a stolen document onto a third party website. On a simplistic basis the whistle blower has simply ignored all the usual safeguards in place . Maybe if the are so confident of their case, the should ask the website concerned to upload their name, department and rank . That would then give the general public the opportunity to take a more objective view of their so called complaint. We could also delve a little more deeply into the background of the individual concerned. . | |||
"Source ..The good law project. I'm not posting a link as I dont want a ban.However a leaked document is hardly a reliable source. The article itself appears to express an opinion, not provide any evidence if any wrong doing . An organisation uploading a stolen document onto its website can hardly claim an moral superiority. Will they be reporting the theft to the police ? Pat, you need to take minute and look at the good law website in relation to this.. Unless a person is corrupt themselves they will be wondering how much public money has been wasted in giving multi million pound contracts to companies, some linked to Tory MPs and affiliates where they are clearly not in the field of PPE provision.. And some of the PPE could not be used as it was sub standard at a time when the nurses and doctors in the NHS were desperate for it.. " There are already extensive procedures in place to ensure that the public obtain value for money and ensuring that procedures are adhered to. Apart from the various corporate governance regulations, departments are accountable to various audit bodies and various other spot checks. | |||
"Documents been leaked revealing special procurement channels for VIPs and cabinet ministers Opportunities for 35-45%profit margins during the crises. .Hi . I do not think many people would pay too much attention to a leaked document. If the source is a civil servant they may have breached the civil service code of conduct and are possibly liable to prosecution. We can safely assume that those who choose to leak documents have a rather low standard of honesty and an inflated opinion of their own self importance. You are clearly unaware that whistle blower policies are in every area of the public sector and are protected in law.. Come on pat wake up.. However there is a massive difference between following the correct procedure for whistle blowing and uploading a stolen document onto a third party website. On a simplistic basis the whistle blower has simply ignored all the usual safeguards in place . Maybe if the are so confident of their case, the should ask the website concerned to upload their name, department and rank . That would then give the general public the opportunity to take a more objective view of their so called complaint. We could also delve a little more deeply into the background of the individual concerned. . " The government have not denied any part of this though so why does the individual need scrutiny? | |||
"Source ..The good law project. I'm not posting a link as I dont want a ban.However a leaked document is hardly a reliable source. The article itself appears to express an opinion, not provide any evidence if any wrong doing . An organisation uploading a stolen document onto its website can hardly claim an moral superiority. Will they be reporting the theft to the police ? Pat, you need to take minute and look at the good law website in relation to this.. Unless a person is corrupt themselves they will be wondering how much public money has been wasted in giving multi million pound contracts to companies, some linked to Tory MPs and affiliates where they are clearly not in the field of PPE provision.. And some of the PPE could not be used as it was sub standard at a time when the nurses and doctors in the NHS were desperate for it.. There are already extensive procedures in place to ensure that the public obtain value for money and ensuring that procedures are adhered to. Apart from the various corporate governance regulations, departments are accountable to various audit bodies and various other spot checks. " That's exactly why this document has been leaked because all the safeguarding rules have been fucking ignored.... Wake up for fucks sake | |||
"Documents been leaked revealing special procurement channels for VIPs and cabinet ministers Opportunities for 35-45%profit margins during the crises. .Hi . I do not think many people would pay too much attention to a leaked document. If the source is a civil servant they may have breached the civil service code of conduct and are possibly liable to prosecution. We can safely assume that those who choose to leak documents have a rather low standard of honesty and an inflated opinion of their own self importance. You are clearly unaware that whistle blower policies are in every area of the public sector and are protected in law.. Come on pat wake up.. However there is a massive difference between following the correct procedure for whistle blowing and uploading a stolen document onto a third party website. On a simplistic basis the whistle blower has simply ignored all the usual safeguards in place . Maybe if the are so confident of their case, the should ask the website concerned to upload their name, department and rank . That would then give the general public the opportunity to take a more objective view of their so called complaint. We could also delve a little more deeply into the background of the individual concerned. . " Your being naive, MPs and aides leak all the time to trusted journalists.. | |||
"Source ..The good law project. I'm not posting a link as I dont want a ban.However a leaked document is hardly a reliable source. The article itself appears to express an opinion, not provide any evidence if any wrong doing . An organisation uploading a stolen document onto its website can hardly claim an moral superiority. Will they be reporting the theft to the police ? Pat, you need to take minute and look at the good law website in relation to this.. Unless a person is corrupt themselves they will be wondering how much public money has been wasted in giving multi million pound contracts to companies, some linked to Tory MPs and affiliates where they are clearly not in the field of PPE provision.. And some of the PPE could not be used as it was sub standard at a time when the nurses and doctors in the NHS were desperate for it.. There are already extensive procedures in place to ensure that the public obtain value for money and ensuring that procedures are adhered to. Apart from the various corporate governance regulations, departments are accountable to various audit bodies and various other spot checks. " No there are not, have told you this before.. They are being withheld outside of any current legislation and it's why cases are live now before the courts.. Where there to have been proper procedures then the cases would not have gotten into the court room.. The information is freely available perhaps go and look, you might disagree on the details etc but it will at least show what is being taken to try and ensure accountability.. Btw the same group through the courts forced the government through the courts to apply correctly its own tax procedures against Uber and £1.5 million was paid to the Exchequer.. Pretty sure you would agree thats a good thing? | |||
"Source ..The good law project. I'm not posting a link as I dont want a ban.However a leaked document is hardly a reliable source. The article itself appears to express an opinion, not provide any evidence if any wrong doing . An organisation uploading a stolen document onto its website can hardly claim an moral superiority. Will they be reporting the theft to the police ? Pat, you need to take minute and look at the good law website in relation to this.. Unless a person is corrupt themselves they will be wondering how much public money has been wasted in giving multi million pound contracts to companies, some linked to Tory MPs and affiliates where they are clearly not in the field of PPE provision.. And some of the PPE could not be used as it was sub standard at a time when the nurses and doctors in the NHS were desperate for it.. There are already extensive procedures in place to ensure that the public obtain value for money and ensuring that procedures are adhered to. Apart from the various corporate governance regulations, departments are accountable to various audit bodies and various other spot checks. No there are not, have told you this before.. They are being withheld outside of any current legislation and it's why cases are live now before the courts.. Where there to have been proper procedures then the cases would not have gotten into the court room.. The information is freely available perhaps go and look, you might disagree on the details etc but it will at least show what is being taken to try and ensure accountability.. Btw the same group through the courts forced the government through the courts to apply correctly its own tax procedures against Uber and £1.5 million was paid to the Exchequer.. Pretty sure you would agree thats a good thing?" Non-Income Tax Matters The Company recorded an estimated liability for contingencies related to non-income tax matters and is under audit by various domestic and foreign tax authorities with regard to such matters. The subject matter of these contingent liabilities and non-income tax audits primarily arises from the Company’s transactions with its Drivers, as well as the tax treatment of certain employee benefits and related employment taxes. In jurisdictions with disputes connected to transactions with Drivers, disputes involve the applicability of transactional taxes (such as sales, value added and similar taxes) to services provided, as well as the applicability of withholding tax on payments made to such Drivers. For example, the Company is involved in a proceeding in the UK involving HMRC, the tax regulator in the UK, which is seeking to classify the Company as a transportation provider. Being classified as a transportation provider would result in a VAT (20%) on Gross Bookings or on the service fee that the Company charges Drivers, both retroactively and prospectively. Further, if Drivers are determined to be workers, they may be entitled to additional benefits and payments, and the Company may be subject to penalties, back taxes, and fines. The Company believes that the position of HMRC and the regulators in similar disputes and audits is without merit and is defending itself vigorously. During the first quarter of 2020, the Company favorably resolved a state non-income exposure in the U.S. resulting in a $138 million reduction of U.S. non-income tax reserves. The Company’s estimated liability is inherently subjective due to the complexity and uncertainty of these matters and the judicial processes in certain jurisdictions, therefore, the final outcome could be different from the estimated liability recorded. UBER have a slightly different take on this situation , It appears to evolve around classification of the nature of the business that they undertake , so not quite as straight forward as the good law project claim . For now I will be relying on the expertise of internal and external auditors and various other regulators within the civil services . All contacts are fully documented on the various mainframe accounting systems . We vote for MPs to run the country , not the Good Law project | |||
"Source ..The good law project. I'm not posting a link as I dont want a ban.However a leaked document is hardly a reliable source. The article itself appears to express an opinion, not provide any evidence if any wrong doing . An organisation uploading a stolen document onto its website can hardly claim an moral superiority. Will they be reporting the theft to the police ? Pat, you need to take minute and look at the good law website in relation to this.. Unless a person is corrupt themselves they will be wondering how much public money has been wasted in giving multi million pound contracts to companies, some linked to Tory MPs and affiliates where they are clearly not in the field of PPE provision.. And some of the PPE could not be used as it was sub standard at a time when the nurses and doctors in the NHS were desperate for it.. There are already extensive procedures in place to ensure that the public obtain value for money and ensuring that procedures are adhered to. Apart from the various corporate governance regulations, departments are accountable to various audit bodies and various other spot checks. No there are not, have told you this before.. They are being withheld outside of any current legislation and it's why cases are live now before the courts.. Where there to have been proper procedures then the cases would not have gotten into the court room.. The information is freely available perhaps go and look, you might disagree on the details etc but it will at least show what is being taken to try and ensure accountability.. Btw the same group through the courts forced the government through the courts to apply correctly its own tax procedures against Uber and £1.5 million was paid to the Exchequer.. Pretty sure you would agree thats a good thing? Non-Income Tax Matters The Company recorded an estimated liability for contingencies related to non-income tax matters and is under audit by various domestic and foreign tax authorities with regard to such matters. The subject matter of these contingent liabilities and non-income tax audits primarily arises from the Company’s transactions with its Drivers, as well as the tax treatment of certain employee benefits and related employment taxes. In jurisdictions with disputes connected to transactions with Drivers, disputes involve the applicability of transactional taxes (such as sales, value added and similar taxes) to services provided, as well as the applicability of withholding tax on payments made to such Drivers. For example, the Company is involved in a proceeding in the UK involving HMRC, the tax regulator in the UK, which is seeking to classify the Company as a transportation provider. Being classified as a transportation provider would result in a VAT (20%) on Gross Bookings or on the service fee that the Company charges Drivers, both retroactively and prospectively. Further, if Drivers are determined to be workers, they may be entitled to additional benefits and payments, and the Company may be subject to penalties, back taxes, and fines. The Company believes that the position of HMRC and the regulators in similar disputes and audits is without merit and is defending itself vigorously. During the first quarter of 2020, the Company favorably resolved a state non-income exposure in the U.S. resulting in a $138 million reduction of U.S. non-income tax reserves. The Company’s estimated liability is inherently subjective due to the complexity and uncertainty of these matters and the judicial processes in certain jurisdictions, therefore, the final outcome could be different from the estimated liability recorded. UBER have a slightly different take on this situation , It appears to evolve around classification of the nature of the business that they undertake , so not quite as straight forward as the good law project claim . For now I will be relying on the expertise of internal and external auditors and various other regulators within the civil services . All contacts are fully documented on the various mainframe accounting systems . We vote for MPs to run the country , not the Good Law project " Weirdest thing you have posted yet...probably! | |||
"Source ..The good law project. I'm not posting a link as I dont want a ban.However a leaked document is hardly a reliable source. The article itself appears to express an opinion, not provide any evidence if any wrong doing . An organisation uploading a stolen document onto its website can hardly claim an moral superiority. Will they be reporting the theft to the police ? Pat, you need to take minute and look at the good law website in relation to this.. Unless a person is corrupt themselves they will be wondering how much public money has been wasted in giving multi million pound contracts to companies, some linked to Tory MPs and affiliates where they are clearly not in the field of PPE provision.. And some of the PPE could not be used as it was sub standard at a time when the nurses and doctors in the NHS were desperate for it.. There are already extensive procedures in place to ensure that the public obtain value for money and ensuring that procedures are adhered to. Apart from the various corporate governance regulations, departments are accountable to various audit bodies and various other spot checks. No there are not, have told you this before.. They are being withheld outside of any current legislation and it's why cases are live now before the courts.. Where there to have been proper procedures then the cases would not have gotten into the court room.. The information is freely available perhaps go and look, you might disagree on the details etc but it will at least show what is being taken to try and ensure accountability.. Btw the same group through the courts forced the government through the courts to apply correctly its own tax procedures against Uber and £1.5 million was paid to the Exchequer.. Pretty sure you would agree thats a good thing? Non-Income Tax Matters The Company recorded an estimated liability for contingencies related to non-income tax matters and is under audit by various domestic and foreign tax authorities with regard to such matters. The subject matter of these contingent liabilities and non-income tax audits primarily arises from the Company’s transactions with its Drivers, as well as the tax treatment of certain employee benefits and related employment taxes. In jurisdictions with disputes connected to transactions with Drivers, disputes involve the applicability of transactional taxes (such as sales, value added and similar taxes) to services provided, as well as the applicability of withholding tax on payments made to such Drivers. For example, the Company is involved in a proceeding in the UK involving HMRC, the tax regulator in the UK, which is seeking to classify the Company as a transportation provider. Being classified as a transportation provider would result in a VAT (20%) on Gross Bookings or on the service fee that the Company charges Drivers, both retroactively and prospectively. Further, if Drivers are determined to be workers, they may be entitled to additional benefits and payments, and the Company may be subject to penalties, back taxes, and fines. The Company believes that the position of HMRC and the regulators in similar disputes and audits is without merit and is defending itself vigorously. During the first quarter of 2020, the Company favorably resolved a state non-income exposure in the U.S. resulting in a $138 million reduction of U.S. non-income tax reserves. The Company’s estimated liability is inherently subjective due to the complexity and uncertainty of these matters and the judicial processes in certain jurisdictions, therefore, the final outcome could be different from the estimated liability recorded. UBER have a slightly different take on this situation , It appears to evolve around classification of the nature of the business that they undertake , so not quite as straight forward as the good law project claim . For now I will be relying on the expertise of internal and external auditors and various other regulators within the civil services . All contacts are fully documented on the various mainframe accounting systems . We vote for MPs to run the country , not the Good Law project " Your ok with what looks like gross incompetence or corruption given you've gone quiet on the PPE.. As for the rest, amazing flim flammery and still ignore the salient point.. Classic pat waffling.. | |||
"Source ..The good law project. I'm not posting a link as I dont want a ban.However a leaked document is hardly a reliable source. The article itself appears to express an opinion, not provide any evidence if any wrong doing . An organisation uploading a stolen document onto its website can hardly claim an moral superiority. Will they be reporting the theft to the police ? Pat, you need to take minute and look at the good law website in relation to this.. Unless a person is corrupt themselves they will be wondering how much public money has been wasted in giving multi million pound contracts to companies, some linked to Tory MPs and affiliates where they are clearly not in the field of PPE provision.. And some of the PPE could not be used as it was sub standard at a time when the nurses and doctors in the NHS were desperate for it.. There are already extensive procedures in place to ensure that the public obtain value for money and ensuring that procedures are adhered to. Apart from the various corporate governance regulations, departments are accountable to various audit bodies and various other spot checks. No there are not, have told you this before.. They are being withheld outside of any current legislation and it's why cases are live now before the courts.. Where there to have been proper procedures then the cases would not have gotten into the court room.. The information is freely available perhaps go and look, you might disagree on the details etc but it will at least show what is being taken to try and ensure accountability.. Btw the same group through the courts forced the government through the courts to apply correctly its own tax procedures against Uber and £1.5 million was paid to the Exchequer.. Pretty sure you would agree thats a good thing? Non-Income Tax Matters The Company recorded an estimated liability for contingencies related to non-income tax matters and is under audit by various domestic and foreign tax authorities with regard to such matters. The subject matter of these contingent liabilities and non-income tax audits primarily arises from the Company’s transactions with its Drivers, as well as the tax treatment of certain employee benefits and related employment taxes. In jurisdictions with disputes connected to transactions with Drivers, disputes involve the applicability of transactional taxes (such as sales, value added and similar taxes) to services provided, as well as the applicability of withholding tax on payments made to such Drivers. For example, the Company is involved in a proceeding in the UK involving HMRC, the tax regulator in the UK, which is seeking to classify the Company as a transportation provider. Being classified as a transportation provider would result in a VAT (20%) on Gross Bookings or on the service fee that the Company charges Drivers, both retroactively and prospectively. Further, if Drivers are determined to be workers, they may be entitled to additional benefits and payments, and the Company may be subject to penalties, back taxes, and fines. The Company believes that the position of HMRC and the regulators in similar disputes and audits is without merit and is defending itself vigorously. During the first quarter of 2020, the Company favorably resolved a state non-income exposure in the U.S. resulting in a $138 million reduction of U.S. non-income tax reserves. The Company’s estimated liability is inherently subjective due to the complexity and uncertainty of these matters and the judicial processes in certain jurisdictions, therefore, the final outcome could be different from the estimated liability recorded. UBER have a slightly different take on this situation , It appears to evolve around classification of the nature of the business that they undertake , so not quite as straight forward as the good law project claim . For now I will be relying on the expertise of internal and external auditors and various other regulators within the civil services . All contacts are fully documented on the various mainframe accounting systems . We vote for MPs to run the country , not the Good Law project Your ok with what looks like gross incompetence or corruption given you've gone quiet on the PPE.. As for the rest, amazing flim flammery and still ignore the salient point.. Classic pat waffling.. "The PPE sourcing unit contained 400 civil servants and was set up in a time of national crisis . Anyone can make the right decisions with the benefit of hindsight , the important issue would be did the unit achieve what they were tasked with in the time available . Like a significant number of people I am happy to rely on the numerous corporate governance procedures in place . A Department of Health and Social Care spokesman has already confirmed that proper due diligence is / was carried out . Are you suggesting that the civil service and both corrupt and incompetent ? ( as per your comment above ) . The are the people that procured the PPE on behalf of the government . I am certain that with the benefit of hindsight procurement would have been different . However , decisions could only be made with the information available at the time ( and in very difficult circumstances ) . Maybe if the Good Law project were so knowledgeable on PPE , they should have offered their services to help procure PPE when the crisis was at its peak . | |||
"Great to see Serco participating in the success of Test and Trace . A few key facts • 16 million tests given to 9 million since May 28 th ( 5.3 million in the past 4 weeks alone ) • On a weekly basis the number of tests given is 60 % more than Germany , 40 % more than France and double that of Spain or Italy • Testing capacity will reach 500 ,000 a day within the next few weeks , far outstripping our European neighbours Based on the above we can safely ignore the merchants of doom and gloom who constantly criticise the government. The above example is another clear illustration of why we can have confidence in the current governments Test and Trace scheme . Any teething problems are being addressed . " Generating data is nice Making good use of the data would be nicer | |||
"Source ..The good law project. I'm not posting a link as I dont want a ban.However a leaked document is hardly a reliable source. The article itself appears to express an opinion, not provide any evidence if any wrong doing . An organisation uploading a stolen document onto its website can hardly claim an moral superiority. Will they be reporting the theft to the police ? Pat, you need to take minute and look at the good law website in relation to this.. Unless a person is corrupt themselves they will be wondering how much public money has been wasted in giving multi million pound contracts to companies, some linked to Tory MPs and affiliates where they are clearly not in the field of PPE provision.. And some of the PPE could not be used as it was sub standard at a time when the nurses and doctors in the NHS were desperate for it.. There are already extensive procedures in place to ensure that the public obtain value for money and ensuring that procedures are adhered to. Apart from the various corporate governance regulations, departments are accountable to various audit bodies and various other spot checks. No there are not, have told you this before.. They are being withheld outside of any current legislation and it's why cases are live now before the courts.. Where there to have been proper procedures then the cases would not have gotten into the court room.. The information is freely available perhaps go and look, you might disagree on the details etc but it will at least show what is being taken to try and ensure accountability.. Btw the same group through the courts forced the government through the courts to apply correctly its own tax procedures against Uber and £1.5 million was paid to the Exchequer.. Pretty sure you would agree thats a good thing? Non-Income Tax Matters The Company recorded an estimated liability for contingencies related to non-income tax matters and is under audit by various domestic and foreign tax authorities with regard to such matters. The subject matter of these contingent liabilities and non-income tax audits primarily arises from the Company’s transactions with its Drivers, as well as the tax treatment of certain employee benefits and related employment taxes. In jurisdictions with disputes connected to transactions with Drivers, disputes involve the applicability of transactional taxes (such as sales, value added and similar taxes) to services provided, as well as the applicability of withholding tax on payments made to such Drivers. For example, the Company is involved in a proceeding in the UK involving HMRC, the tax regulator in the UK, which is seeking to classify the Company as a transportation provider. Being classified as a transportation provider would result in a VAT (20%) on Gross Bookings or on the service fee that the Company charges Drivers, both retroactively and prospectively. Further, if Drivers are determined to be workers, they may be entitled to additional benefits and payments, and the Company may be subject to penalties, back taxes, and fines. The Company believes that the position of HMRC and the regulators in similar disputes and audits is without merit and is defending itself vigorously. During the first quarter of 2020, the Company favorably resolved a state non-income exposure in the U.S. resulting in a $138 million reduction of U.S. non-income tax reserves. The Company’s estimated liability is inherently subjective due to the complexity and uncertainty of these matters and the judicial processes in certain jurisdictions, therefore, the final outcome could be different from the estimated liability recorded. UBER have a slightly different take on this situation , It appears to evolve around classification of the nature of the business that they undertake , so not quite as straight forward as the good law project claim . For now I will be relying on the expertise of internal and external auditors and various other regulators within the civil services . All contacts are fully documented on the various mainframe accounting systems . We vote for MPs to run the country , not the Good Law project Your ok with what looks like gross incompetence or corruption given you've gone quiet on the PPE.. As for the rest, amazing flim flammery and still ignore the salient point.. Classic pat waffling..
The PPE sourcing unit contained 400 civil servants and was set up in a time of national crisis . Anyone can make the right decisions with the benefit of hindsight , the important issue would be did the unit achieve what they were tasked with in the time available .
Like a significant number of people I am happy to rely on the numerous corporate governance procedures in place . A Department of Health and Social Care spokesman has already confirmed that proper due diligence is / was carried out .
Are you suggesting that the civil service and both corrupt and incompetent ? ( as per your comment above ) . The are the people that procured the PPE on behalf of the government .
I am certain that with the benefit of hindsight procurement would have been different . However , decisions could only be made with the information available at the time ( and in very difficult circumstances ) .
Maybe if the Good Law project were so knowledgeable on PPE , they should have offered their services to help procure PPE when the crisis was at its peak . "Again your wrong on the due diligence point, even the newest person drafted in to what was a panic (made more urgent by this governments failures to plan after the 2016 report was watered down and partly ignored in the fetishism that was brexit) would know that ignoring trusted providers in the PPE arena and giving multi million pound contracts to companies such as pest control, confectionery and financial services with absolutely zero track record in PPE provision is not due diligence or to any accepted standards .. There was no diligence, they did not even worry that a newly set up company with only £100 of assets and no history repeat again as your not listening Pat, no history of PPE provision was awarded a multi million pound contract and then the poet was substandard.. No use for the doctors and nurses on the front line.. Jeez fella are you so obtuse that the title of the good law project is law.. Head in the sand as the truth for any decent person with any common sense is that incompetence, nepotism and possibly corruption were part of the huge give away of tax payers money.. Clearly your deliberately not seeing what's in front of your face.. | |||
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"Source ..The good law project. I'm not posting a link as I dont want a ban.However a leaked document is hardly a reliable source. The article itself appears to express an opinion, not provide any evidence if any wrong doing . An organisation uploading a stolen document onto its website can hardly claim an moral superiority. Will they be reporting the theft to the police ? Pat, you need to take minute and look at the good law website in relation to this.. Unless a person is corrupt themselves they will be wondering how much public money has been wasted in giving multi million pound contracts to companies, some linked to Tory MPs and affiliates where they are clearly not in the field of PPE provision.. And some of the PPE could not be used as it was sub standard at a time when the nurses and doctors in the NHS were desperate for it.. There are already extensive procedures in place to ensure that the public obtain value for money and ensuring that procedures are adhered to. Apart from the various corporate governance regulations, departments are accountable to various audit bodies and various other spot checks. No there are not, have told you this before.. They are being withheld outside of any current legislation and it's why cases are live now before the courts.. Where there to have been proper procedures then the cases would not have gotten into the court room.. The information is freely available perhaps go and look, you might disagree on the details etc but it will at least show what is being taken to try and ensure accountability.. Btw the same group through the courts forced the government through the courts to apply correctly its own tax procedures against Uber and £1.5 million was paid to the Exchequer.. Pretty sure you would agree thats a good thing? Non-Income Tax Matters The Company recorded an estimated liability for contingencies related to non-income tax matters and is under audit by various domestic and foreign tax authorities with regard to such matters. The subject matter of these contingent liabilities and non-income tax audits primarily arises from the Company’s transactions with its Drivers, as well as the tax treatment of certain employee benefits and related employment taxes. In jurisdictions with disputes connected to transactions with Drivers, disputes involve the applicability of transactional taxes (such as sales, value added and similar taxes) to services provided, as well as the applicability of withholding tax on payments made to such Drivers. For example, the Company is involved in a proceeding in the UK involving HMRC, the tax regulator in the UK, which is seeking to classify the Company as a transportation provider. Being classified as a transportation provider would result in a VAT (20%) on Gross Bookings or on the service fee that the Company charges Drivers, both retroactively and prospectively. Further, if Drivers are determined to be workers, they may be entitled to additional benefits and payments, and the Company may be subject to penalties, back taxes, and fines. The Company believes that the position of HMRC and the regulators in similar disputes and audits is without merit and is defending itself vigorously. During the first quarter of 2020, the Company favorably resolved a state non-income exposure in the U.S. resulting in a $138 million reduction of U.S. non-income tax reserves. The Company’s estimated liability is inherently subjective due to the complexity and uncertainty of these matters and the judicial processes in certain jurisdictions, therefore, the final outcome could be different from the estimated liability recorded. UBER have a slightly different take on this situation , It appears to evolve around classification of the nature of the business that they undertake , so not quite as straight forward as the good law project claim . For now I will be relying on the expertise of internal and external auditors and various other regulators within the civil services . All contacts are fully documented on the various mainframe accounting systems . We vote for MPs to run the country , not the Good Law project Your ok with what looks like gross incompetence or corruption given you've gone quiet on the PPE.. As for the rest, amazing flim flammery and still ignore the salient point.. Classic pat waffling..
The PPE sourcing unit contained 400 civil servants and was set up in a time of national crisis . Anyone can make the right decisions with the benefit of hindsight , the important issue would be did the unit achieve what they were tasked with in the time available .
Like a significant number of people I am happy to rely on the numerous corporate governance procedures in place . A Department of Health and Social Care spokesman has already confirmed that proper due diligence is / was carried out .
Are you suggesting that the civil service and both corrupt and incompetent ? ( as per your comment above ) . The are the people that procured the PPE on behalf of the government .
I am certain that with the benefit of hindsight procurement would have been different . However , decisions could only be made with the information available at the time ( and in very difficult circumstances ) .
Maybe if the Good Law project were so knowledgeable on PPE , they should have offered their services to help procure PPE when the crisis was at its peak .
Again your wrong on the due diligence point, even the newest person drafted in to what was a panic (made more urgent by this governments failures to plan after the 2016 report was watered down and partly ignored in the fetishism that was brexit) would know that ignoring trusted providers in the PPE arena and giving multi million pound contracts to companies such as pest control, confectionery and financial services with absolutely zero track record in PPE provision is not due diligence or to any accepted standards ..
There was no diligence, they did not even worry that a newly set up company with only £100 of assets and no history repeat again as your not listening Pat, no history of PPE provision was awarded a multi million pound contract and then the poet was substandard..
No use for the doctors and nurses on the front line..
Jeez fella are you so obtuse that the title of the good law project is law..
Head in the sand as the truth for any decent person with any common sense is that incompetence, nepotism and possibly corruption were part of the huge give away of tax payers money..
Clearly your deliberately not seeing what's in front of your face..
". Luckily we live in a free society an you can express an opinion. However much as I respect the right of any individual to express an opinion I am not compelled to accept it as being valid. On this occasion I have noted all your points and even downloaded the UBER accounts which were a 260 page document and to investigate your point . Given the choice between accepting your opinion ( which you of course are at liberty to express ) and accepting those of tbe DHSC I am entitled to accept the statement of a government department that proper due diligence was carried out.This is in addition to all the various corporate government procedures already in place | |||
"Source ..The good law project. I'm not posting a link as I dont want a ban.However a leaked document is hardly a reliable source. The article itself appears to express an opinion, not provide any evidence if any wrong doing . An organisation uploading a stolen document onto its website can hardly claim an moral superiority. Will they be reporting the theft to the police ? Pat, you need to take minute and look at the good law website in relation to this.. Unless a person is corrupt themselves they will be wondering how much public money has been wasted in giving multi million pound contracts to companies, some linked to Tory MPs and affiliates where they are clearly not in the field of PPE provision.. And some of the PPE could not be used as it was sub standard at a time when the nurses and doctors in the NHS were desperate for it.. There are already extensive procedures in place to ensure that the public obtain value for money and ensuring that procedures are adhered to. Apart from the various corporate governance regulations, departments are accountable to various audit bodies and various other spot checks. No there are not, have told you this before.. They are being withheld outside of any current legislation and it's why cases are live now before the courts.. Where there to have been proper procedures then the cases would not have gotten into the court room.. The information is freely available perhaps go and look, you might disagree on the details etc but it will at least show what is being taken to try and ensure accountability.. Btw the same group through the courts forced the government through the courts to apply correctly its own tax procedures against Uber and £1.5 million was paid to the Exchequer.. Pretty sure you would agree thats a good thing? Non-Income Tax Matters The Company recorded an estimated liability for contingencies related to non-income tax matters and is under audit by various domestic and foreign tax authorities with regard to such matters. The subject matter of these contingent liabilities and non-income tax audits primarily arises from the Company’s transactions with its Drivers, as well as the tax treatment of certain employee benefits and related employment taxes. In jurisdictions with disputes connected to transactions with Drivers, disputes involve the applicability of transactional taxes (such as sales, value added and similar taxes) to services provided, as well as the applicability of withholding tax on payments made to such Drivers. For example, the Company is involved in a proceeding in the UK involving HMRC, the tax regulator in the UK, which is seeking to classify the Company as a transportation provider. Being classified as a transportation provider would result in a VAT (20%) on Gross Bookings or on the service fee that the Company charges Drivers, both retroactively and prospectively. Further, if Drivers are determined to be workers, they may be entitled to additional benefits and payments, and the Company may be subject to penalties, back taxes, and fines. The Company believes that the position of HMRC and the regulators in similar disputes and audits is without merit and is defending itself vigorously. During the first quarter of 2020, the Company favorably resolved a state non-income exposure in the U.S. resulting in a $138 million reduction of U.S. non-income tax reserves. The Company’s estimated liability is inherently subjective due to the complexity and uncertainty of these matters and the judicial processes in certain jurisdictions, therefore, the final outcome could be different from the estimated liability recorded. UBER have a slightly different take on this situation , It appears to evolve around classification of the nature of the business that they undertake , so not quite as straight forward as the good law project claim . For now I will be relying on the expertise of internal and external auditors and various other regulators within the civil services . All contacts are fully documented on the various mainframe accounting systems . We vote for MPs to run the country , not the Good Law project Your ok with what looks like gross incompetence or corruption given you've gone quiet on the PPE.. As for the rest, amazing flim flammery and still ignore the salient point.. Classic pat waffling..
The PPE sourcing unit contained 400 civil servants and was set up in a time of national crisis . Anyone can make the right decisions with the benefit of hindsight , the important issue would be did the unit achieve what they were tasked with in the time available .
Like a significant number of people I am happy to rely on the numerous corporate governance procedures in place . A Department of Health and Social Care spokesman has already confirmed that proper due diligence is / was carried out .
Are you suggesting that the civil service and both corrupt and incompetent ? ( as per your comment above ) . The are the people that procured the PPE on behalf of the government .
I am certain that with the benefit of hindsight procurement would have been different . However , decisions could only be made with the information available at the time ( and in very difficult circumstances ) .
Maybe if the Good Law project were so knowledgeable on PPE , they should have offered their services to help procure PPE when the crisis was at its peak .
Again your wrong on the due diligence point, even the newest person drafted in to what was a panic (made more urgent by this governments failures to plan after the 2016 report was watered down and partly ignored in the fetishism that was brexit) would know that ignoring trusted providers in the PPE arena and giving multi million pound contracts to companies such as pest control, confectionery and financial services with absolutely zero track record in PPE provision is not due diligence or to any accepted standards ..
There was no diligence, they did not even worry that a newly set up company with only £100 of assets and no history repeat again as your not listening Pat, no history of PPE provision was awarded a multi million pound contract and then the poet was substandard..
No use for the doctors and nurses on the front line..
Jeez fella are you so obtuse that the title of the good law project is law..
Head in the sand as the truth for any decent person with any common sense is that incompetence, nepotism and possibly corruption were part of the huge give away of tax payers money..
Clearly your deliberately not seeing what's in front of your face..
. Luckily we live in a free society an you can express an opinion. However much as I respect the right of any individual to express an opinion I am not compelled to accept it as being valid.
On this occasion I have noted all your points and even downloaded the UBER accounts which were a 260 page document and to investigate your point .
Given the choice between accepting your opinion ( which you of course are at liberty to express ) and accepting those of tbe DHSC I am entitled to accept the statement of a government department that proper due diligence was carried out.This is in addition to all the various corporate government procedures already in place "Your entitled to believe any old shite Pat, such as brexit is an oven ready deal but you are only showing ignorance in denying the cases albeit yet to be proven in front of the courts of this land.. And why and what those cases entail.. Pretty sure we'll come back to this .. | |||
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"Source ..The good law project. I'm not posting a link as I dont want a ban.However a leaked document is hardly a reliable source. The article itself appears to express an opinion, not provide any evidence if any wrong doing . An organisation uploading a stolen document onto its website can hardly claim an moral superiority. Will they be reporting the theft to the police ? Pat, you need to take minute and look at the good law website in relation to this.. Unless a person is corrupt themselves they will be wondering how much public money has been wasted in giving multi million pound contracts to companies, some linked to Tory MPs and affiliates where they are clearly not in the field of PPE provision.. And some of the PPE could not be used as it was sub standard at a time when the nurses and doctors in the NHS were desperate for it.. There are already extensive procedures in place to ensure that the public obtain value for money and ensuring that procedures are adhered to. Apart from the various corporate governance regulations, departments are accountable to various audit bodies and various other spot checks. No there are not, have told you this before.. They are being withheld outside of any current legislation and it's why cases are live now before the courts.. Where there to have been proper procedures then the cases would not have gotten into the court room.. The information is freely available perhaps go and look, you might disagree on the details etc but it will at least show what is being taken to try and ensure accountability.. Btw the same group through the courts forced the government through the courts to apply correctly its own tax procedures against Uber and £1.5 million was paid to the Exchequer.. Pretty sure you would agree thats a good thing? Non-Income Tax Matters The Company recorded an estimated liability for contingencies related to non-income tax matters and is under audit by various domestic and foreign tax authorities with regard to such matters. The subject matter of these contingent liabilities and non-income tax audits primarily arises from the Company’s transactions with its Drivers, as well as the tax treatment of certain employee benefits and related employment taxes. In jurisdictions with disputes connected to transactions with Drivers, disputes involve the applicability of transactional taxes (such as sales, value added and similar taxes) to services provided, as well as the applicability of withholding tax on payments made to such Drivers. For example, the Company is involved in a proceeding in the UK involving HMRC, the tax regulator in the UK, which is seeking to classify the Company as a transportation provider. Being classified as a transportation provider would result in a VAT (20%) on Gross Bookings or on the service fee that the Company charges Drivers, both retroactively and prospectively. Further, if Drivers are determined to be workers, they may be entitled to additional benefits and payments, and the Company may be subject to penalties, back taxes, and fines. The Company believes that the position of HMRC and the regulators in similar disputes and audits is without merit and is defending itself vigorously. During the first quarter of 2020, the Company favorably resolved a state non-income exposure in the U.S. resulting in a $138 million reduction of U.S. non-income tax reserves. The Company’s estimated liability is inherently subjective due to the complexity and uncertainty of these matters and the judicial processes in certain jurisdictions, therefore, the final outcome could be different from the estimated liability recorded. UBER have a slightly different take on this situation , It appears to evolve around classification of the nature of the business that they undertake , so not quite as straight forward as the good law project claim . For now I will be relying on the expertise of internal and external auditors and various other regulators within the civil services . All contacts are fully documented on the various mainframe accounting systems . We vote for MPs to run the country , not the Good Law project Your ok with what looks like gross incompetence or corruption given you've gone quiet on the PPE.. As for the rest, amazing flim flammery and still ignore the salient point.. Classic pat waffling..
The PPE sourcing unit contained 400 civil servants and was set up in a time of national crisis . Anyone can make the right decisions with the benefit of hindsight , the important issue would be did the unit achieve what they were tasked with in the time available .
Like a significant number of people I am happy to rely on the numerous corporate governance procedures in place . A Department of Health and Social Care spokesman has already confirmed that proper due diligence is / was carried out .
Are you suggesting that the civil service and both corrupt and incompetent ? ( as per your comment above ) . The are the people that procured the PPE on behalf of the government .
I am certain that with the benefit of hindsight procurement would have been different . However , decisions could only be made with the information available at the time ( and in very difficult circumstances ) .
Maybe if the Good Law project were so knowledgeable on PPE , they should have offered their services to help procure PPE when the crisis was at its peak . "Not in a million years would anyone accept that due diligence was done in the cases of these two companies . Watchdog on the tv would have said you would be an idiot to trade with a dormant and a month old company never mid issue multi million pound contracts . These contracts were never reviewed through the civil service as they would not have passed the first stage of application by being a financially sound organisation. Apart from no ISO’s or certifications in the provision of healthcare. It is obvious they were awarded through emergency executive orders not due diligence or open scrutiny . It’s wrong on every level and the fortunes have been made now so too late. | |||
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"The civil servants are not to blame . They would have been told what to do. With the track record of this government’s sackings they would know to shut up and send the purchase order . " Pretty much this.. Same sad old rubbish to blame the civil service when it's not gone well and then when it's hunky dory the ministers take the glory.. They were even guiding some of these companies through the application process.. Too few civil servants, a crisis and a government in panic and it's kerching for the unscrupulous.. Similar with the grants scheme and thousands of newly set up companies raking in up to £50k each.. | |||
"Source ..The good law project. I'm not posting a link as I dont want a ban.However a leaked document is hardly a reliable source. The article itself appears to express an opinion, not provide any evidence if any wrong doing . An organisation uploading a stolen document onto its website can hardly claim an moral superiority. Will they be reporting the theft to the police ? Pat, you need to take minute and look at the good law website in relation to this.. Unless a person is corrupt themselves they will be wondering how much public money has been wasted in giving multi million pound contracts to companies, some linked to Tory MPs and affiliates where they are clearly not in the field of PPE provision.. And some of the PPE could not be used as it was sub standard at a time when the nurses and doctors in the NHS were desperate for it.. There are already extensive procedures in place to ensure that the public obtain value for money and ensuring that procedures are adhered to. Apart from the various corporate governance regulations, departments are accountable to various audit bodies and various other spot checks. No there are not, have told you this before.. They are being withheld outside of any current legislation and it's why cases are live now before the courts.. Where there to have been proper procedures then the cases would not have gotten into the court room.. The information is freely available perhaps go and look, you might disagree on the details etc but it will at least show what is being taken to try and ensure accountability.. Btw the same group through the courts forced the government through the courts to apply correctly its own tax procedures against Uber and £1.5 million was paid to the Exchequer.. Pretty sure you would agree thats a good thing? Non-Income Tax Matters The Company recorded an estimated liability for contingencies related to non-income tax matters and is under audit by various domestic and foreign tax authorities with regard to such matters. The subject matter of these contingent liabilities and non-income tax audits primarily arises from the Company’s transactions with its Drivers, as well as the tax treatment of certain employee benefits and related employment taxes. In jurisdictions with disputes connected to transactions with Drivers, disputes involve the applicability of transactional taxes (such as sales, value added and similar taxes) to services provided, as well as the applicability of withholding tax on payments made to such Drivers. For example, the Company is involved in a proceeding in the UK involving HMRC, the tax regulator in the UK, which is seeking to classify the Company as a transportation provider. Being classified as a transportation provider would result in a VAT (20%) on Gross Bookings or on the service fee that the Company charges Drivers, both retroactively and prospectively. Further, if Drivers are determined to be workers, they may be entitled to additional benefits and payments, and the Company may be subject to penalties, back taxes, and fines. The Company believes that the position of HMRC and the regulators in similar disputes and audits is without merit and is defending itself vigorously. During the first quarter of 2020, the Company favorably resolved a state non-income exposure in the U.S. resulting in a $138 million reduction of U.S. non-income tax reserves. The Company’s estimated liability is inherently subjective due to the complexity and uncertainty of these matters and the judicial processes in certain jurisdictions, therefore, the final outcome could be different from the estimated liability recorded. UBER have a slightly different take on this situation , It appears to evolve around classification of the nature of the business that they undertake , so not quite as straight forward as the good law project claim . For now I will be relying on the expertise of internal and external auditors and various other regulators within the civil services . All contacts are fully documented on the various mainframe accounting systems . We vote for MPs to run the country , not the Good Law project Your ok with what looks like gross incompetence or corruption given you've gone quiet on the PPE.. As for the rest, amazing flim flammery and still ignore the salient point.. Classic pat waffling..
The PPE sourcing unit contained 400 civil servants and was set up in a time of national crisis . Anyone can make the right decisions with the benefit of hindsight , the important issue would be did the unit achieve what they were tasked with in the time available .
Like a significant number of people I am happy to rely on the numerous corporate governance procedures in place . A Department of Health and Social Care spokesman has already confirmed that proper due diligence is / was carried out .
Are you suggesting that the civil service and both corrupt and incompetent ? ( as per your comment above ) . The are the people that procured the PPE on behalf of the government .
I am certain that with the benefit of hindsight procurement would have been different . However , decisions could only be made with the information available at the time ( and in very difficult circumstances ) .
Maybe if the Good Law project were so knowledgeable on PPE , they should have offered their services to help procure PPE when the crisis was at its peak .
Not in a million years would anyone accept that due diligence was done in the cases of these two companies .
Watchdog on the tv would have said you would be an idiot to trade with a dormant and a month old company never mid issue multi million pound contracts .
These contracts were never reviewed through the civil service as they would not have passed the first stage of application by being a financially sound organisation.
Apart from no ISO’s or certifications in the provision of healthcare.
It is obvious they were awarded through emergency executive orders not due diligence or open scrutiny .
It’s wrong on every level and the fortunes have been made now so too late."Just because contracts were awarded under emergency legislation would not mean that due diligence was ignored . The due diligence may have been different to the normal process but would still be undertaken. A governmrnt spokesman has confirmed that. Assuming that the directors of the newly formed companies had transferable skills from other areas I can see no reason why contracts should not be awarded to newly established companies with no trading history . It may be that the directors skills were superior to those of the established companies and they had a better business plan. In any event the risk only passes to the taxpayer when a company is paid. Unless substantial advance payments are made , the risk remains with the company onto the service is delivered. It may be better to judge people on their successes, not a few isolated failure . A lot of Civil Servants are in a very powerful union. You cannot simply just sack them. They are in a more privileged position than most workers | |||
"Source ..The good law project. I'm not posting a link as I dont want a ban.However a leaked document is hardly a reliable source. The article itself appears to express an opinion, not provide any evidence if any wrong doing . An organisation uploading a stolen document onto its website can hardly claim an moral superiority. Will they be reporting the theft to the police ? Pat, you need to take minute and look at the good law website in relation to this.. Unless a person is corrupt themselves they will be wondering how much public money has been wasted in giving multi million pound contracts to companies, some linked to Tory MPs and affiliates where they are clearly not in the field of PPE provision.. And some of the PPE could not be used as it was sub standard at a time when the nurses and doctors in the NHS were desperate for it.. There are already extensive procedures in place to ensure that the public obtain value for money and ensuring that procedures are adhered to. Apart from the various corporate governance regulations, departments are accountable to various audit bodies and various other spot checks. No there are not, have told you this before.. They are being withheld outside of any current legislation and it's why cases are live now before the courts.. Where there to have been proper procedures then the cases would not have gotten into the court room.. The information is freely available perhaps go and look, you might disagree on the details etc but it will at least show what is being taken to try and ensure accountability.. Btw the same group through the courts forced the government through the courts to apply correctly its own tax procedures against Uber and £1.5 million was paid to the Exchequer.. Pretty sure you would agree thats a good thing? Non-Income Tax Matters The Company recorded an estimated liability for contingencies related to non-income tax matters and is under audit by various domestic and foreign tax authorities with regard to such matters. The subject matter of these contingent liabilities and non-income tax audits primarily arises from the Company’s transactions with its Drivers, as well as the tax treatment of certain employee benefits and related employment taxes. In jurisdictions with disputes connected to transactions with Drivers, disputes involve the applicability of transactional taxes (such as sales, value added and similar taxes) to services provided, as well as the applicability of withholding tax on payments made to such Drivers. For example, the Company is involved in a proceeding in the UK involving HMRC, the tax regulator in the UK, which is seeking to classify the Company as a transportation provider. Being classified as a transportation provider would result in a VAT (20%) on Gross Bookings or on the service fee that the Company charges Drivers, both retroactively and prospectively. Further, if Drivers are determined to be workers, they may be entitled to additional benefits and payments, and the Company may be subject to penalties, back taxes, and fines. The Company believes that the position of HMRC and the regulators in similar disputes and audits is without merit and is defending itself vigorously. During the first quarter of 2020, the Company favorably resolved a state non-income exposure in the U.S. resulting in a $138 million reduction of U.S. non-income tax reserves. The Company’s estimated liability is inherently subjective due to the complexity and uncertainty of these matters and the judicial processes in certain jurisdictions, therefore, the final outcome could be different from the estimated liability recorded. UBER have a slightly different take on this situation , It appears to evolve around classification of the nature of the business that they undertake , so not quite as straight forward as the good law project claim . For now I will be relying on the expertise of internal and external auditors and various other regulators within the civil services . All contacts are fully documented on the various mainframe accounting systems . We vote for MPs to run the country , not the Good Law project Your ok with what looks like gross incompetence or corruption given you've gone quiet on the PPE.. As for the rest, amazing flim flammery and still ignore the salient point.. Classic pat waffling..
The PPE sourcing unit contained 400 civil servants and was set up in a time of national crisis . Anyone can make the right decisions with the benefit of hindsight , the important issue would be did the unit achieve what they were tasked with in the time available .
Like a significant number of people I am happy to rely on the numerous corporate governance procedures in place . A Department of Health and Social Care spokesman has already confirmed that proper due diligence is / was carried out .
Are you suggesting that the civil service and both corrupt and incompetent ? ( as per your comment above ) . The are the people that procured the PPE on behalf of the government .
I am certain that with the benefit of hindsight procurement would have been different . However , decisions could only be made with the information available at the time ( and in very difficult circumstances ) .
Maybe if the Good Law project were so knowledgeable on PPE , they should have offered their services to help procure PPE when the crisis was at its peak .
Not in a million years would anyone accept that due diligence was done in the cases of these two companies .
Watchdog on the tv would have said you would be an idiot to trade with a dormant and a month old company never mid issue multi million pound contracts .
These contracts were never reviewed through the civil service as they would not have passed the first stage of application by being a financially sound organisation.
Apart from no ISO’s or certifications in the provision of healthcare.
It is obvious they were awarded through emergency executive orders not due diligence or open scrutiny .
It’s wrong on every level and the fortunes have been made now so too late. Just because contracts were awarded under emergency legislation would not mean that due diligence was ignored . The due diligence may have been different to the normal process but would still be undertaken. A governmrnt spokesman has confirmed that.
Assuming that the directors of the newly formed companies had transferable skills from other areas I can see no reason why contracts should not be awarded to newly established companies with no trading history . It may be that the directors skills were superior to those of the established companies and they had a better business plan.
In any event the risk only passes to the taxpayer when a company is paid. Unless substantial advance payments are made , the risk remains with the company onto the service is delivered.
It may be better to judge people on their successes, not a few isolated failure .
A lot of Civil Servants are in a very powerful union. You cannot simply just sack them. They are in a more privileged position than most workers
"I know 4 people who have been sacked in the last 3 years. So your last paragraph is completely fabricated. | |||
"Source ..The good law project. I'm not posting a link as I dont want a ban.However a leaked document is hardly a reliable source. The article itself appears to express an opinion, not provide any evidence if any wrong doing . An organisation uploading a stolen document onto its website can hardly claim an moral superiority. Will they be reporting the theft to the police ? Pat, you need to take minute and look at the good law website in relation to this.. Unless a person is corrupt themselves they will be wondering how much public money has been wasted in giving multi million pound contracts to companies, some linked to Tory MPs and affiliates where they are clearly not in the field of PPE provision.. And some of the PPE could not be used as it was sub standard at a time when the nurses and doctors in the NHS were desperate for it.. There are already extensive procedures in place to ensure that the public obtain value for money and ensuring that procedures are adhered to. Apart from the various corporate governance regulations, departments are accountable to various audit bodies and various other spot checks. No there are not, have told you this before.. They are being withheld outside of any current legislation and it's why cases are live now before the courts.. Where there to have been proper procedures then the cases would not have gotten into the court room.. The information is freely available perhaps go and look, you might disagree on the details etc but it will at least show what is being taken to try and ensure accountability.. Btw the same group through the courts forced the government through the courts to apply correctly its own tax procedures against Uber and £1.5 million was paid to the Exchequer.. Pretty sure you would agree thats a good thing? Non-Income Tax Matters The Company recorded an estimated liability for contingencies related to non-income tax matters and is under audit by various domestic and foreign tax authorities with regard to such matters. The subject matter of these contingent liabilities and non-income tax audits primarily arises from the Company’s transactions with its Drivers, as well as the tax treatment of certain employee benefits and related employment taxes. In jurisdictions with disputes connected to transactions with Drivers, disputes involve the applicability of transactional taxes (such as sales, value added and similar taxes) to services provided, as well as the applicability of withholding tax on payments made to such Drivers. For example, the Company is involved in a proceeding in the UK involving HMRC, the tax regulator in the UK, which is seeking to classify the Company as a transportation provider. Being classified as a transportation provider would result in a VAT (20%) on Gross Bookings or on the service fee that the Company charges Drivers, both retroactively and prospectively. Further, if Drivers are determined to be workers, they may be entitled to additional benefits and payments, and the Company may be subject to penalties, back taxes, and fines. The Company believes that the position of HMRC and the regulators in similar disputes and audits is without merit and is defending itself vigorously. During the first quarter of 2020, the Company favorably resolved a state non-income exposure in the U.S. resulting in a $138 million reduction of U.S. non-income tax reserves. The Company’s estimated liability is inherently subjective due to the complexity and uncertainty of these matters and the judicial processes in certain jurisdictions, therefore, the final outcome could be different from the estimated liability recorded. UBER have a slightly different take on this situation , It appears to evolve around classification of the nature of the business that they undertake , so not quite as straight forward as the good law project claim . For now I will be relying on the expertise of internal and external auditors and various other regulators within the civil services . All contacts are fully documented on the various mainframe accounting systems . We vote for MPs to run the country , not the Good Law project Your ok with what looks like gross incompetence or corruption given you've gone quiet on the PPE.. As for the rest, amazing flim flammery and still ignore the salient point.. Classic pat waffling..
The PPE sourcing unit contained 400 civil servants and was set up in a time of national crisis . Anyone can make the right decisions with the benefit of hindsight , the important issue would be did the unit achieve what they were tasked with in the time available .
Like a significant number of people I am happy to rely on the numerous corporate governance procedures in place . A Department of Health and Social Care spokesman has already confirmed that proper due diligence is / was carried out .
Are you suggesting that the civil service and both corrupt and incompetent ? ( as per your comment above ) . The are the people that procured the PPE on behalf of the government .
I am certain that with the benefit of hindsight procurement would have been different . However , decisions could only be made with the information available at the time ( and in very difficult circumstances ) .
Maybe if the Good Law project were so knowledgeable on PPE , they should have offered their services to help procure PPE when the crisis was at its peak .
Not in a million years would anyone accept that due diligence was done in the cases of these two companies .
Watchdog on the tv would have said you would be an idiot to trade with a dormant and a month old company never mid issue multi million pound contracts .
These contracts were never reviewed through the civil service as they would not have passed the first stage of application by being a financially sound organisation.
Apart from no ISO’s or certifications in the provision of healthcare.
It is obvious they were awarded through emergency executive orders not due diligence or open scrutiny .
It’s wrong on every level and the fortunes have been made now so too late. Just because contracts were awarded under emergency legislation would not mean that due diligence was ignored . The due diligence may have been different to the normal process but would still be undertaken. A governmrnt spokesman has confirmed that.
Assuming that the directors of the newly formed companies had transferable skills from other areas I can see no reason why contracts should not be awarded to newly established companies with no trading history . It may be that the directors skills were superior to those of the established companies and they had a better business plan.
In any event the risk only passes to the taxpayer when a company is paid. Unless substantial advance payments are made , the risk remains with the company onto the service is delivered.
It may be better to judge people on their successes, not a few isolated failure .
A lot of Civil Servants are in a very powerful union. You cannot simply just sack them. They are in a more privileged position than most workers
"I think you have a valid point though some will still get sacked for gross misconduct but in general they are far far far less likley to be sacked, | |||
"Source ..The good law project. I'm not posting a link as I dont want a ban.However a leaked document is hardly a reliable source. The article itself appears to express an opinion, not provide any evidence if any wrong doing . An organisation uploading a stolen document onto its website can hardly claim an moral superiority. Will they be reporting the theft to the police ? Pat, you need to take minute and look at the good law website in relation to this.. Unless a person is corrupt themselves they will be wondering how much public money has been wasted in giving multi million pound contracts to companies, some linked to Tory MPs and affiliates where they are clearly not in the field of PPE provision.. And some of the PPE could not be used as it was sub standard at a time when the nurses and doctors in the NHS were desperate for it.. There are already extensive procedures in place to ensure that the public obtain value for money and ensuring that procedures are adhered to. Apart from the various corporate governance regulations, departments are accountable to various audit bodies and various other spot checks. No there are not, have told you this before.. They are being withheld outside of any current legislation and it's why cases are live now before the courts.. Where there to have been proper procedures then the cases would not have gotten into the court room.. The information is freely available perhaps go and look, you might disagree on the details etc but it will at least show what is being taken to try and ensure accountability.. Btw the same group through the courts forced the government through the courts to apply correctly its own tax procedures against Uber and £1.5 million was paid to the Exchequer.. Pretty sure you would agree thats a good thing? Non-Income Tax Matters The Company recorded an estimated liability for contingencies related to non-income tax matters and is under audit by various domestic and foreign tax authorities with regard to such matters. The subject matter of these contingent liabilities and non-income tax audits primarily arises from the Company’s transactions with its Drivers, as well as the tax treatment of certain employee benefits and related employment taxes. In jurisdictions with disputes connected to transactions with Drivers, disputes involve the applicability of transactional taxes (such as sales, value added and similar taxes) to services provided, as well as the applicability of withholding tax on payments made to such Drivers. For example, the Company is involved in a proceeding in the UK involving HMRC, the tax regulator in the UK, which is seeking to classify the Company as a transportation provider. Being classified as a transportation provider would result in a VAT (20%) on Gross Bookings or on the service fee that the Company charges Drivers, both retroactively and prospectively. Further, if Drivers are determined to be workers, they may be entitled to additional benefits and payments, and the Company may be subject to penalties, back taxes, and fines. The Company believes that the position of HMRC and the regulators in similar disputes and audits is without merit and is defending itself vigorously. During the first quarter of 2020, the Company favorably resolved a state non-income exposure in the U.S. resulting in a $138 million reduction of U.S. non-income tax reserves. The Company’s estimated liability is inherently subjective due to the complexity and uncertainty of these matters and the judicial processes in certain jurisdictions, therefore, the final outcome could be different from the estimated liability recorded. UBER have a slightly different take on this situation , It appears to evolve around classification of the nature of the business that they undertake , so not quite as straight forward as the good law project claim . For now I will be relying on the expertise of internal and external auditors and various other regulators within the civil services . All contacts are fully documented on the various mainframe accounting systems . We vote for MPs to run the country , not the Good Law project Your ok with what looks like gross incompetence or corruption given you've gone quiet on the PPE.. As for the rest, amazing flim flammery and still ignore the salient point.. Classic pat waffling..
The PPE sourcing unit contained 400 civil servants and was set up in a time of national crisis . Anyone can make the right decisions with the benefit of hindsight , the important issue would be did the unit achieve what they were tasked with in the time available .
Like a significant number of people I am happy to rely on the numerous corporate governance procedures in place . A Department of Health and Social Care spokesman has already confirmed that proper due diligence is / was carried out .
Are you suggesting that the civil service and both corrupt and incompetent ? ( as per your comment above ) . The are the people that procured the PPE on behalf of the government .
I am certain that with the benefit of hindsight procurement would have been different . However , decisions could only be made with the information available at the time ( and in very difficult circumstances ) .
Maybe if the Good Law project were so knowledgeable on PPE , they should have offered their services to help procure PPE when the crisis was at its peak .
Not in a million years would anyone accept that due diligence was done in the cases of these two companies .
Watchdog on the tv would have said you would be an idiot to trade with a dormant and a month old company never mid issue multi million pound contracts .
These contracts were never reviewed through the civil service as they would not have passed the first stage of application by being a financially sound organisation.
Apart from no ISO’s or certifications in the provision of healthcare.
It is obvious they were awarded through emergency executive orders not due diligence or open scrutiny .
It’s wrong on every level and the fortunes have been made now so too late. Just because contracts were awarded under emergency legislation would not mean that due diligence was ignored . The due diligence may have been different to the normal process but would still be undertaken. A governmrnt spokesman has confirmed that.
Assuming that the directors of the newly formed companies had transferable skills from other areas I can see no reason why contracts should not be awarded to newly established companies with no trading history . It may be that the directors skills were superior to those of the established companies and they had a better business plan.
In any event the risk only passes to the taxpayer when a company is paid. Unless substantial advance payments are made , the risk remains with the company onto the service is delivered.
It may be better to judge people on their successes, not a few isolated failure .
A lot of Civil Servants are in a very powerful union. You cannot simply just sack them. They are in a more privileged position than most workers
I think you have a valid point though some will still get sacked for gross misconduct but in general they are far far far less likley to be sacked, "Evidence? | |||
