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Asylum hotel violence
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"It seems that there has been some trouble again at a hotel housing asylum seekers recently. It appears that a protest started peacefully but for whatever reason turned to violence. Apparently there was a counter protest to. Should such protests be allowed given the sensitive nature or should the freedom to protest outweigh all other issues." If they obey the law both sides should be allowed to protest | |||
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"The news reports are a little sketchy on the reason it turned violent. They skirt around a post online, referring to it as an alleged incident, involving someone housed in the hotel. I find the language being used strange too, the local councillor said the violence did not represent the community, wasn't it the community that were protesting and ultimately ended up rioting? " It was organised fascists, spreading misinformation to get some of the community involved | |||
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"Where fascist groups like Patriotic Alternative raise their heads, it's important that they are challenged and opposed by anti-fascists. In the UK we have a long history of this, opposing fascist groups, and means that we don't have a situation like in Italy, France etc where the far right make major gains in elections. The likes of the National Front, BNP, EDL, all systematically opposed wherever they organise, and not letting then build into something even more dangerous. " Its been said by Hope Not Hate that Patriotic Alternative did not organise this event. | |||
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"Where fascist groups like Patriotic Alternative raise their heads, it's important that they are challenged and opposed by anti-fascists. In the UK we have a long history of this, opposing fascist groups, and means that we don't have a situation like in Italy, France etc where the far right make major gains in elections. The likes of the National Front, BNP, EDL, all systematically opposed wherever they organise, and not letting then build into something even more dangerous. Its been said by Hope Not Hate that Patriotic Alternative did not organise this event. " They were leafleting the local area and it led to this. | |||
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"Where fascist groups like Patriotic Alternative raise their heads, it's important that they are challenged and opposed by anti-fascists. In the UK we have a long history of this, opposing fascist groups, and means that we don't have a situation like in Italy, France etc where the far right make major gains in elections. The likes of the National Front, BNP, EDL, all systematically opposed wherever they organise, and not letting then build into something even more dangerous. Its been said by Hope Not Hate that Patriotic Alternative did not organise this event. They were leafleting the local area and it led to this." how do you know this? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Where fascist groups like Patriotic Alternative raise their heads, it's important that they are challenged and opposed by anti-fascists. In the UK we have a long history of this, opposing fascist groups, and means that we don't have a situation like in Italy, France etc where the far right make major gains in elections. The likes of the National Front, BNP, EDL, all systematically opposed wherever they organise, and not letting then build into something even more dangerous. Its been said by Hope Not Hate that Patriotic Alternative did not organise this event. They were leafleting the local area and it led to this." So you want to pick the parts of the report that suit you? According to the report, this was organised on telegram. | |||
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"Where fascist groups like Patriotic Alternative raise their heads, it's important that they are challenged and opposed by anti-fascists. In the UK we have a long history of this, opposing fascist groups, and means that we don't have a situation like in Italy, France etc where the far right make major gains in elections. The likes of the National Front, BNP, EDL, all systematically opposed wherever they organise, and not letting then build into something even more dangerous. Its been said by Hope Not Hate that Patriotic Alternative did not organise this event. They were leafleting the local area and it led to this. how do you know this?" I know people from the area and people who were there. | |||
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"Where fascist groups like Patriotic Alternative raise their heads, it's important that they are challenged and opposed by anti-fascists. In the UK we have a long history of this, opposing fascist groups, and means that we don't have a situation like in Italy, France etc where the far right make major gains in elections. The likes of the National Front, BNP, EDL, all systematically opposed wherever they organise, and not letting then build into something even more dangerous. Its been said by Hope Not Hate that Patriotic Alternative did not organise this event. They were leafleting the local area and it led to this. how do you know this? I know people from the area and people who were there." No you don't. The truth is it's not the people you wanted it too be. | |||
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"The news reports are a little sketchy on the reason it turned violent. They skirt around a post online, referring to it as an alleged incident, involving someone housed in the hotel. I find the language being used strange too, the local councillor said the violence did not represent the community, wasn't it the community that were protesting and ultimately ended up rioting? " It does seem a confused situation. I think there was a protest and also a counter protest. Burnt out police vans is not a good look either way. | |||
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"I think there will be a lot more of this. Some are housed in my local town in what was one of the towns oldest hotel with a great reputation and they have ruined it. The fire brigade are called out a few times a week due to them starting fires in the rooms. I’m really concerned as to how this will play out. " Very concerning that they are starting fires in their rooms. If that's the case then hopefully it does not lead to a tragedy | |||
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"Where fascist groups like Patriotic Alternative raise their heads, it's important that they are challenged and opposed by anti-fascists. In the UK we have a long history of this, opposing fascist groups, and means that we don't have a situation like in Italy, France etc where the far right make major gains in elections. The likes of the National Front, BNP, EDL, all systematically opposed wherever they organise, and not letting then build into something even more dangerous. Its been said by Hope Not Hate that Patriotic Alternative did not organise this event. They were leafleting the local area and it led to this. how do you know this? I know people from the area and people who were there. No you don't. The truth is it's not the people you wanted it too be." Yes I do. Why on earth would you say this when you have no idea. Just because you don't doesn't mean others don't. | |||
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"Where fascist groups like Patriotic Alternative raise their heads, it's important that they are challenged and opposed by anti-fascists. In the UK we have a long history of this, opposing fascist groups, and means that we don't have a situation like in Italy, France etc where the far right make major gains in elections. The likes of the National Front, BNP, EDL, all systematically opposed wherever they organise, and not letting then build into something even more dangerous. Its been said by Hope Not Hate that Patriotic Alternative did not organise this event. They were leafleting the local area and it led to this. how do you know this? I know people from the area and people who were there. No you don't. The truth is it's not the people you wanted it too be. Yes I do. Why on earth would you say this when you have no idea. Just because you don't doesn't mean others don't." Ordinary folk protest as well. It seems anyone who protests is a fascist in your book. | |||
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"Where fascist groups like Patriotic Alternative raise their heads, it's important that they are challenged and opposed by anti-fascists. In the UK we have a long history of this, opposing fascist groups, and means that we don't have a situation like in Italy, France etc where the far right make major gains in elections. The likes of the National Front, BNP, EDL, all systematically opposed wherever they organise, and not letting then build into something even more dangerous. Its been said by Hope Not Hate that Patriotic Alternative did not organise this event. They were leafleting the local area and it led to this. how do you know this? I know people from the area and people who were there." Do you know more than Hope Not Hate, then? From what I can see, they've said they analysed Patriotic Alternative media etc and found no link to this. | |||
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"Where fascist groups like Patriotic Alternative raise their heads, it's important that they are challenged and opposed by anti-fascists. In the UK we have a long history of this, opposing fascist groups, and means that we don't have a situation like in Italy, France etc where the far right make major gains in elections. The likes of the National Front, BNP, EDL, all systematically opposed wherever they organise, and not letting then build into something even more dangerous. Its been said by Hope Not Hate that Patriotic Alternative did not organise this event. They were leafleting the local area and it led to this. how do you know this? I know people from the area and people who were there. No you don't. The truth is it's not the people you wanted it too be. Yes I do. Why on earth would you say this when you have no idea. Just because you don't doesn't mean others don't. Ordinary folk protest as well. It seems anyone who protests is a fascist in your book." Did I say that? No. I said that Patriotic Alternative were organising there. They were. Just like they did in Cannock last weekend, and other towns lately. It's a tactic they are using, to target the hotels used to house asylum seekers to push their racist agenda. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Where fascist groups like Patriotic Alternative raise their heads, it's important that they are challenged and opposed by anti-fascists. In the UK we have a long history of this, opposing fascist groups, and means that we don't have a situation like in Italy, France etc where the far right make major gains in elections. The likes of the National Front, BNP, EDL, all systematically opposed wherever they organise, and not letting then build into something even more dangerous. Its been said by Hope Not Hate that Patriotic Alternative did not organise this event. They were leafleting the local area and it led to this. how do you know this? I know people from the area and people who were there. No you don't. The truth is it's not the people you wanted it too be. Yes I do. Why on earth would you say this when you have no idea. Just because you don't doesn't mean others don't. Ordinary folk protest as well. It seems anyone who protests is a fascist in your book. Did I say that? No. I said that Patriotic Alternative were organising there. They were. Just like they did in Cannock last weekend, and other towns lately. It's a tactic they are using, to target the hotels used to house asylum seekers to push their racist agenda. " Let me guess....you know people in Cannock as well. And every where else that there's a protest. ordinary people make their own mind up when they protest...they don't need leaflets shoved in their face to make their mind up. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Where fascist groups like Patriotic Alternative raise their heads, it's important that they are challenged and opposed by anti-fascists. In the UK we have a long history of this, opposing fascist groups, and means that we don't have a situation like in Italy, France etc where the far right make major gains in elections. The likes of the National Front, BNP, EDL, all systematically opposed wherever they organise, and not letting then build into something even more dangerous. Its been said by Hope Not Hate that Patriotic Alternative did not organise this event. They were leafleting the local area and it led to this. how do you know this? I know people from the area and people who were there. No you don't. The truth is it's not the people you wanted it too be. Yes I do. Why on earth would you say this when you have no idea. Just because you don't doesn't mean others don't. Ordinary folk protest as well. It seems anyone who protests is a fascist in your book. Did I say that? No. I said that Patriotic Alternative were organising there. They were. Just like they did in Cannock last weekend, and other towns lately. It's a tactic they are using, to target the hotels used to house asylum seekers to push their racist agenda. Let me guess....you know people in Cannock as well. And every where else that there's a protest. ordinary people make their own mind up when they protest...they don't need leaflets shoved in their face to make their mind up." Yes I do actually know people who went to the cannock protest too. I know anti-fascists. Just because you have sympathy with the fascists and those that are protesting with them doesn't mean that it's not an organised fascist group stoking this kind of violence. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Where fascist groups like Patriotic Alternative raise their heads, it's important that they are challenged and opposed by anti-fascists. In the UK we have a long history of this, opposing fascist groups, and means that we don't have a situation like in Italy, France etc where the far right make major gains in elections. The likes of the National Front, BNP, EDL, all systematically opposed wherever they organise, and not letting then build into something even more dangerous. Its been said by Hope Not Hate that Patriotic Alternative did not organise this event. They were leafleting the local area and it led to this. how do you know this? I know people from the area and people who were there. No you don't. The truth is it's not the people you wanted it too be. Yes I do. Why on earth would you say this when you have no idea. Just because you don't doesn't mean others don't. Ordinary folk protest as well. It seems anyone who protests is a fascist in your book. Did I say that? No. I said that Patriotic Alternative were organising there. They were. Just like they did in Cannock last weekend, and other towns lately. It's a tactic they are using, to target the hotels used to house asylum seekers to push their racist agenda. Let me guess....you know people in Cannock as well. And every where else that there's a protest. ordinary people make their own mind up when they protest...they don't need leaflets shoved in their face to make their mind up. Yes I do actually know people who went to the cannock protest too. I know anti-fascists. Just because you have sympathy with the fascists and those that are protesting with them doesn't mean that it's not an organised fascist group stoking this kind of violence." No sympathy for fascists....just the ordinary people who live in these communities. | |||
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"Where fascist groups like Patriotic Alternative raise their heads, it's important that they are challenged and opposed by anti-fascists. In the UK we have a long history of this, opposing fascist groups, and means that we don't have a situation like in Italy, France etc where the far right make major gains in elections. The likes of the National Front, BNP, EDL, all systematically opposed wherever they organise, and not letting then build into something even more dangerous. Its been said by Hope Not Hate that Patriotic Alternative did not organise this event. They were leafleting the local area and it led to this. how do you know this? I know people from the area and people who were there. No you don't. The truth is it's not the people you wanted it too be. Yes I do. Why on earth would you say this when you have no idea. Just because you don't doesn't mean others don't. Ordinary folk protest as well. It seems anyone who protests is a fascist in your book. Did I say that? No. I said that Patriotic Alternative were organising there. They were. Just like they did in Cannock last weekend, and other towns lately. It's a tactic they are using, to target the hotels used to house asylum seekers to push their racist agenda. Let me guess....you know people in Cannock as well. And every where else that there's a protest. ordinary people make their own mind up when they protest...they don't need leaflets shoved in their face to make their mind up. Yes I do actually know people who went to the cannock protest too. I know anti-fascists. Just because you have sympathy with the fascists and those that are protesting with them doesn't mean that it's not an organised fascist group stoking this kind of violence." The fascist's will get you There's no evidence this was caused by fascist group's .... that's what a fascist would say Lol Remember, if you disagree with certain types that means you're a fascist | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Where fascist groups like Patriotic Alternative raise their heads, it's important that they are challenged and opposed by anti-fascists. In the UK we have a long history of this, opposing fascist groups, and means that we don't have a situation like in Italy, France etc where the far right make major gains in elections. The likes of the National Front, BNP, EDL, all systematically opposed wherever they organise, and not letting then build into something even more dangerous. Its been said by Hope Not Hate that Patriotic Alternative did not organise this event. They were leafleting the local area and it led to this. how do you know this? I know people from the area and people who were there. Do you know more than Hope Not Hate, then? From what I can see, they've said they analysed Patriotic Alternative media etc and found no link to this." From the title I would assume 'Hope not Hate' are not hard right wing and have no reason to protect this 'Patriotic Alternative'. It seems 2 protests took place and not sure how the violence started. I would assume a clash if the 2 groups with the police in the middle. So should only 1 protest be allowed at any one time to prevent clashes or is that restricting people's rights to protest and counter protest | |||
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"Where fascist groups like Patriotic Alternative raise their heads, it's important that they are challenged and opposed by anti-fascists. In the UK we have a long history of this, opposing fascist groups, and means that we don't have a situation like in Italy, France etc where the far right make major gains in elections. The likes of the National Front, BNP, EDL, all systematically opposed wherever they organise, and not letting then build into something even more dangerous. Its been said by Hope Not Hate that Patriotic Alternative did not organise this event. They were leafleting the local area and it led to this. how do you know this? I know people from the area and people who were there. Do you know more than Hope Not Hate, then? From what I can see, they've said they analysed Patriotic Alternative media etc and found no link to this. From the title I would assume 'Hope not Hate' are not hard right wing and have no reason to protect this 'Patriotic Alternative'. It seems 2 protests took place and not sure how the violence started. I would assume a clash if the 2 groups with the police in the middle. So should only 1 protest be allowed at any one time to prevent clashes or is that restricting people's rights to protest and counter protest" The following is the title from their website. "Welcome to HOPE NOT HATE Researching, Campaigning, and Supporting Communities to build HOPE and oppose far-right extremism" | |||
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"Where fascist groups like Patriotic Alternative raise their heads, it's important that they are challenged and opposed by anti-fascists. In the UK we have a long history of this, opposing fascist groups, and means that we don't have a situation like in Italy, France etc where the far right make major gains in elections. The likes of the National Front, BNP, EDL, all systematically opposed wherever they organise, and not letting then build into something even more dangerous. Its been said by Hope Not Hate that Patriotic Alternative did not organise this event. They were leafleting the local area and it led to this. how do you know this? I know people from the area and people who were there. Do you know more than Hope Not Hate, then? From what I can see, they've said they analysed Patriotic Alternative media etc and found no link to this. From the title I would assume 'Hope not Hate' are not hard right wing and have no reason to protect this 'Patriotic Alternative'. It seems 2 protests took place and not sure how the violence started. I would assume a clash if the 2 groups with the police in the middle. So should only 1 protest be allowed at any one time to prevent clashes or is that restricting people's rights to protest and counter protest" People should be allowed to protest and people should be allowed to counter protest. Those who become violent should be dealt with by the police. | |||
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"Where fascist groups like Patriotic Alternative raise their heads, it's important that they are challenged and opposed by anti-fascists. In the UK we have a long history of this, opposing fascist groups, and means that we don't have a situation like in Italy, France etc where the far right make major gains in elections. The likes of the National Front, BNP, EDL, all systematically opposed wherever they organise, and not letting then build into something even more dangerous. Its been said by Hope Not Hate that Patriotic Alternative did not organise this event. They were leafleting the local area and it led to this. how do you know this? I know people from the area and people who were there. Do you know more than Hope Not Hate, then? From what I can see, they've said they analysed Patriotic Alternative media etc and found no link to this. From the title I would assume 'Hope not Hate' are not hard right wing and have no reason to protect this 'Patriotic Alternative'. It seems 2 protests took place and not sure how the violence started. I would assume a clash if the 2 groups with the police in the middle. So should only 1 protest be allowed at any one time to prevent clashes or is that restricting people's rights to protest and counter protest People should be allowed to protest and people should be allowed to counter protest. Those who become violent should be dealt with by the police." Protesting outside hotels that have vulnerable people inside is not normal. You have to have been groomed and brainwashed into thinking that the vulnerable people are in fact an immediate and clear danger. How do people get to think that way if they have not been groomed into a state of confirmation information bias? | |||
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"Where fascist groups like Patriotic Alternative raise their heads, it's important that they are challenged and opposed by anti-fascists. In the UK we have a long history of this, opposing fascist groups, and means that we don't have a situation like in Italy, France etc where the far right make major gains in elections. The likes of the National Front, BNP, EDL, all systematically opposed wherever they organise, and not letting then build into something even more dangerous. Its been said by Hope Not Hate that Patriotic Alternative did not organise this event. They were leafleting the local area and it led to this. how do you know this? I know people from the area and people who were there. Do you know more than Hope Not Hate, then? From what I can see, they've said they analysed Patriotic Alternative media etc and found no link to this. From the title I would assume 'Hope not Hate' are not hard right wing and have no reason to protect this 'Patriotic Alternative'. It seems 2 protests took place and not sure how the violence started. I would assume a clash if the 2 groups with the police in the middle. So should only 1 protest be allowed at any one time to prevent clashes or is that restricting people's rights to protest and counter protest People should be allowed to protest and people should be allowed to counter protest. Those who become violent should be dealt with by the police. Protesting outside hotels that have vulnerable people inside is not normal. You have to have been groomed and brainwashed into thinking that the vulnerable people are in fact an immediate and clear danger. How do people get to think that way if they have not been groomed into a state of confirmation information bias?" Are you aware of the supposed reason for the protest? | |||
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"Where fascist groups like Patriotic Alternative raise their heads, it's important that they are challenged and opposed by anti-fascists. In the UK we have a long history of this, opposing fascist groups, and means that we don't have a situation like in Italy, France etc where the far right make major gains in elections. The likes of the National Front, BNP, EDL, all systematically opposed wherever they organise, and not letting then build into something even more dangerous. Its been said by Hope Not Hate that Patriotic Alternative did not organise this event. They were leafleting the local area and it led to this. how do you know this? I know people from the area and people who were there. Do you know more than Hope Not Hate, then? From what I can see, they've said they analysed Patriotic Alternative media etc and found no link to this. From the title I would assume 'Hope not Hate' are not hard right wing and have no reason to protect this 'Patriotic Alternative'. It seems 2 protests took place and not sure how the violence started. I would assume a clash if the 2 groups with the police in the middle. So should only 1 protest be allowed at any one time to prevent clashes or is that restricting people's rights to protest and counter protest People should be allowed to protest and people should be allowed to counter protest. Those who become violent should be dealt with by the police. Protesting outside hotels that have vulnerable people inside is not normal. You have to have been groomed and brainwashed into thinking that the vulnerable people are in fact an immediate and clear danger. How do people get to think that way if they have not been groomed into a state of confirmation information bias?" They should still be allowed to protest. Even if I might think their cause is hateful and wrong. | |||
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"We should sympathise with and help the groomed protesters then.?" Love trumps hate as they say. I honestly don't know what the answer is. But I suspect education would help. | |||
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"Where fascist groups like Patriotic Alternative raise their heads, it's important that they are challenged and opposed by anti-fascists. In the UK we have a long history of this, opposing fascist groups, and means that we don't have a situation like in Italy, France etc where the far right make major gains in elections. The likes of the National Front, BNP, EDL, all systematically opposed wherever they organise, and not letting then build into something even more dangerous. " Actually it was concerned parents with children, understandably. Then others showed up. If you think they were all fascist then you're a bit naive. | |||
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"Where fascist groups like Patriotic Alternative raise their heads, it's important that they are challenged and opposed by anti-fascists. In the UK we have a long history of this, opposing fascist groups, and means that we don't have a situation like in Italy, France etc where the far right make major gains in elections. The likes of the National Front, BNP, EDL, all systematically opposed wherever they organise, and not letting then build into something even more dangerous. Its been said by Hope Not Hate that Patriotic Alternative did not organise this event. They were leafleting the local area and it led to this. how do you know this? I know people from the area and people who were there. No you don't. The truth is it's not the people you wanted it too be. Yes I do. Why on earth would you say this when you have no idea. Just because you don't doesn't mean others don't. Ordinary folk protest as well. It seems anyone who protests is a fascist in your book." 
Correct.
Anyone who wants to challenge or question state policy is a fascist.
Pitiful. | |||
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"Anyone who wants to challenge or question state policy is a fascist. Pitiful. " Sticks and stones, we hope there's more protests like this. It's not like there's enough police to stop them. | |||
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" Actually it was concerned parents with children, understandably. " What do you mean ? Why should parents with children be understandably concerned about immigrants in a hotel ? | |||
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" Actually it was concerned parents with children, understandably. What do you mean ? Why should parents with children be understandably concerned about immigrants in a hotel ?" I'll ask you the same question as a poster before who hasn't answered. Are you aware of the supposed reason for the protest? | |||
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" Are you aware of the supposed reason for the protest?" The key word there is "supposed" | |||
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" Are you aware of the supposed reason for the protest? The key word there is "supposed"" Yes it is. That's why I used it. Do you know? | |||
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" Do you know?" I can guess | |||
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" Actually it was concerned parents with children, understandably. What do you mean ? Why should parents with children be understandably concerned about immigrants in a hotel ?" It is alleged a 25yo from the asylum approached a 15yo girl for her number. I've not seen the video. I hear that it took place 2 miles from the hotel, so not sure how it was identified. According to bbc no victim has been identified but a man has been arrested in another part of the country. A cynic may say this was a convenient excuse given the number of times 15yo are approached across the country. | |||
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"Anyone who wants to challenge or question state policy is a fascist. Pitiful. Sticks and stones, we hope there's more protests like this. It's not like there's enough police to stop them." Does the world really need more hate and bigotry? | |||
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" Do you know? I can guess" You don't need to guess. The information is available. If you knew then you would know the answer to your question. | |||
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"Anyone who wants to challenge or question state policy is a fascist. Pitiful. Sticks and stones, we hope there's more protests like this. It's not like there's enough police to stop them. Does the world really need more hate and bigotry?" Does anyone really want their country changed through unelected uncontrolled immigration, cultural vandalism and population replacement? | |||
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"Anyone who wants to challenge or question state policy is a fascist. Pitiful. Sticks and stones, we hope there's more protests like this. It's not like there's enough police to stop them. Does the world really need more hate and bigotry? Does anyone really want their country changed through unelected uncontrolled immigration, " This barely makes sense. But I will try I don't mind the country changing, if it changes for the better. We do control immigration. And not sure why you threw in "unelected". But hey. " cultural vandalism and population replacement?" You've strayed into proper white supremacist language here. So this is not worthy of reply. | |||
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"Anyone who wants to challenge or question state policy is a fascist. Pitiful. Sticks and stones, we hope there's more protests like this. It's not like there's enough police to stop them. Does the world really need more hate and bigotry? Does anyone really want their country changed through unelected uncontrolled immigration, cultural vandalism and population replacement?" Do you really believe that 'we're' under attack here? Asylum seekers aren't uncontrolled in that they seek asylum, meaning they're registered here, at least until their claims are processed. | |||
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"Anyone who wants to challenge or question state policy is a fascist. Pitiful. Sticks and stones, we hope there's more protests like this. It's not like there's enough police to stop them. Does the world really need more hate and bigotry? Does anyone really want their country changed through unelected uncontrolled immigration, cultural vandalism and population replacement? Do you really believe that 'we're' under attack here? Asylum seekers aren't uncontrolled in that they seek asylum, meaning they're registered here, at least until their claims are processed." They're not asylum seekers. If they were they could have claimed at a British embassy in any number of countries. There are legal ways to do it. Paying people smugglers to help them enter our country without papers is an illegal immigrant. Our crappy government is using the echr to hide behind and deliberately change our country. Waken up. Refugees, historically, are women and children. They are 90% Male. In what world do you think this will wnd well? For us. | |||
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"Anyone who wants to challenge or question state policy is a fascist. Pitiful. Sticks and stones, we hope there's more protests like this. It's not like there's enough police to stop them. Does the world really need more hate and bigotry? Does anyone really want their country changed through unelected uncontrolled immigration, This barely makes sense. But I will try I don't mind the country changing, if it changes for the better. We do control immigration. And not sure why you threw in "unelected". But hey. cultural vandalism and population replacement? You've strayed into proper white supremacist language here. So this is not worthy of reply. " That's it, label someone who wants to have self preservation as white supremacist. You people are so predictable. If you flooded a country in Africa or Asia with people from Europe they'd call you a colonialist and rascist. Try again, yawn. | |||
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"Anyone who wants to challenge or question state policy is a fascist. Pitiful. Sticks and stones, we hope there's more protests like this. It's not like there's enough police to stop them. Does the world really need more hate and bigotry? Does anyone really want their country changed through unelected uncontrolled immigration, cultural vandalism and population replacement? Do you really believe that 'we're' under attack here? Asylum seekers aren't uncontrolled in that they seek asylum, meaning they're registered here, at least until their claims are processed. They're not asylum seekers. If they were they could have claimed at a British embassy in any number of countries. There are legal ways to do it. Paying people smugglers to help them enter our country without papers is an illegal immigrant. Our crappy government is using the echr to hide behind and deliberately change our country. Waken up. Refugees, historically, are women and children. They are 90% Male. In what world do you think this will wnd well? For us." other than a few schemes such as Ukraine and Iraq (I think) you have to be in the UK to claim asylum. 34pc of asylum seekers in 2022 (up to sept) were under 18 or female. There probably a little bit of reading needed to clarify you understanding here. You may keep the same opinion, but at least your foundations will be stronger. | |||
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"Anyone who wants to challenge or question state policy is a fascist. Pitiful. Sticks and stones, we hope there's more protests like this. It's not like there's enough police to stop them. Does the world really need more hate and bigotry? Does anyone really want their country changed through unelected uncontrolled immigration, cultural vandalism and population replacement? Do you really believe that 'we're' under attack here? Asylum seekers aren't uncontrolled in that they seek asylum, meaning they're registered here, at least until their claims are processed. They're not asylum seekers. If they were they could have claimed at a British embassy in any number of countries. There are legal ways to do it. Paying people smugglers to help them enter our country without papers is an illegal immigrant. Our crappy government is using the echr to hide behind and deliberately change our country. Waken up. Refugees, historically, are women and children. They are 90% Male. In what world do you think this will wnd well? For us.other than a few schemes such as Ukraine and Iraq (I think) you have to be in the UK to claim asylum. 34pc of asylum seekers in 2022 (up to sept) were under 18 or female. There probably a little bit of reading needed to clarify you understanding here. You may keep the same opinion, but at least your foundations will be stronger. " Which means 66% were male. I trust the government for honesty like I trust Biden to know what state he is in. | |||
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"Anyone who wants to challenge or question state policy is a fascist. Pitiful. Sticks and stones, we hope there's more protests like this. It's not like there's enough police to stop them. Does the world really need more hate and bigotry? Does anyone really want their country changed through unelected uncontrolled immigration, cultural vandalism and population replacement? Do you really believe that 'we're' under attack here? Asylum seekers aren't uncontrolled in that they seek asylum, meaning they're registered here, at least until their claims are processed. They're not asylum seekers. If they were they could have claimed at a British embassy in any number of countries. There are legal ways to do it. Paying people smugglers to help them enter our country without papers is an illegal immigrant. Our crappy government is using the echr to hide behind and deliberately change our country. Waken up. Refugees, historically, are women and children. They are 90% Male. In what world do you think this will wnd well? For us." How they got here is another argument entirely. They got to the UK and 'claimed asylum', which means they are 'asylum seekers', it doesn't mean they are refugees until that status is granted. I know, it's semantics, but it's good to be factual on these matters. I don't necessarily agree with how they get here, but they don't have any other choice, they cannot seek asylum in an embassy and have to physically be on UK land. Besides all of this. I asked a question. Do you genuinely believe 'we're' under attack? | |||
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"Anyone who wants to challenge or question state policy is a fascist. Pitiful. Sticks and stones, we hope there's more protests like this. It's not like there's enough police to stop them. Does the world really need more hate and bigotry? Does anyone really want their country changed through unelected uncontrolled immigration, cultural vandalism and population replacement? Do you really believe that 'we're' under attack here? Asylum seekers aren't uncontrolled in that they seek asylum, meaning they're registered here, at least until their claims are processed. They're not asylum seekers. If they were they could have claimed at a British embassy in any number of countries. There are legal ways to do it. Paying people smugglers to help them enter our country without papers is an illegal immigrant. Our crappy government is using the echr to hide behind and deliberately change our country. Waken up. Refugees, historically, are women and children. They are 90% Male. In what world do you think this will wnd well? For us.other than a few schemes such as Ukraine and Iraq (I think) you have to be in the UK to claim asylum. 34pc of asylum seekers in 2022 (up to sept) were under 18 or female. There probably a little bit of reading needed to clarify you understanding here. You may keep the same opinion, but at least your foundations will be stronger. Which means 66% were male. I trust the government for honesty like I trust Biden to know what state he is in." that's not 90pc tho. Like I say, you may have a point somewhere... But your credibility reduces when you throw out incorrect statements and hyperbole. The 90pc was just one error in your post. if you don't believe the ONS then where do you get your stats from ? | |||
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" They're not asylum seekers. If they were they could have claimed at a British embassy in any number of countries. There are legal ways to do it. " And therein is the heart of the problem. What you seem to think is this case, is in fact no longer the case. There are no longer any legal means to claim asylum outside of the U.K. The very problem that we are having with boats is because this Government has closed down ALL overseas asylum routes. This entire problem could be de-escalated if there were ways of people claiming asylum in other countries. 70% of those who make it across the channel are granted asylum and this kind of suggests that the majority would apply overseas and not risk the channel if routes were available to do this. Then again, there is the cynical view that enabling the status quo gives the Conservatives some leverage with outraged racists who foam at the mouth when Braverman and her ilk dream of sending people to Rwanda and sinking boats in the channel. They wouldn’t have such leverage if they acted like almost every other civilised country in the world and dealt with refugee’s and asylum seekers quietly and in a safe, humane way. | |||
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" You people are so predictable. " Who are the "you people"? | |||
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"Anyone who wants to challenge or question state policy is a fascist. Pitiful. Sticks and stones, we hope there's more protests like this. It's not like there's enough police to stop them. Does the world really need more hate and bigotry? Does anyone really want their country changed through unelected uncontrolled immigration, cultural vandalism and population replacement? Do you really believe that 'we're' under attack here? Asylum seekers aren't uncontrolled in that they seek asylum, meaning they're registered here, at least until their claims are processed. They're not asylum seekers. If they were they could have claimed at a British embassy in any number of countries. There are legal ways to do it. Paying people smugglers to help them enter our country without papers is an illegal immigrant. Our crappy government is using the echr to hide behind and deliberately change our country. Waken up. Refugees, historically, are women and children. They are 90% Male. In what world do you think this will wnd well? For us.other than a few schemes such as Ukraine and Iraq (I think) you have to be in the UK to claim asylum. 34pc of asylum seekers in 2022 (up to sept) were under 18 or female. There probably a little bit of reading needed to clarify you understanding here. You may keep the same opinion, but at least your foundations will be stronger. " Braverman was literally asked by a Tory MP how an African girl might claim asylum here via safe, legal routes. Braverman had no answer. Because she knows damn well such a person;'s only recourse is to come her illegally then claim asylum upon landing. | |||
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"If you are in France you are not fleeing persecution or war. It's that simple." What if you've got a phobia of croissants? | |||
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"If you are in France you are not fleeing persecution or war. It's that simple." If the are found to have travelled through a 3rd safe country. They are less likely to be granted asylum. No need for the goon squad to harass these people. | |||
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"It seems that there has been some trouble again at a hotel housing asylum seekers recently. It appears that a protest started peacefully but for whatever reason turned to violence. Apparently there was a counter protest to. Should such protests be allowed given the sensitive nature or should the freedom to protest outweigh all other issues." I think that there is a right to protest and counter protest but it does not outweigh all other issues. Violence is not acceptable. Intimidation is not acceptable. A protest could be held about this matter anywhere. The Council Offices or the local MPs surgery would seem most appropriate. Doing so outside the place where people are staying seems like intimidation. How does scaring people in these places help, or is that the intent? | |||
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"I find it strange a city like Liverpool has a far right cohort. Think more protests are on the horizon this time in Kent. 4 boys been arrested for the alleged r@pe of a girl at school. The alleged offenders are Afghan. " It’s known locally that the same thing happened in Liverpool but it’s not been reported by the public. The alyssum seekers have been told of the UK and think it’s a perfect promise land. When they get here they are kept locked up in hotels kind of like a open prison and it’s causing a lot of tension and unrest. The situation will only get worse | |||
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"I find it strange a city like Liverpool has a far right cohort. " They're everywhere, but often they bus in the protestors. Happened here a few years ago, coach loads of EDL types arrived to drink cans and throw things at non-white people. | |||
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"I find it strange a city like Liverpool has a far right cohort. Think more protests are on the horizon this time in Kent. 4 boys been arrested for the alleged r@pe of a girl at school. The alleged offenders are Afghan. " Unaccompanied minors, according to media, under care of Kent council. No different than that double murderer who got convicted for murder here recently. 
Of course the hand cowards will no doubt start parrotting establishment lines like 'far right'and 'not all asylum seekers.
Dishonesty is dishonesty and if you come here from that starting point it is rational, logical, and reasonable not to trust you. | |||
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" You people are so predictable. Who are the "you people"?" You , and your 3 pals. You know who they are. | |||
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" You people are so predictable. Who are the "you people"? You , and your 3 pals. You know who they are." I have no idea who the "3 pals" are. And what is it that we do that upsets you so much? | |||
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"I find it strange a city like Liverpool has a far right cohort. Think more protests are on the horizon this time in Kent. 4 boys been arrested for the alleged r@pe of a girl at school. The alleged offenders are Afghan. Unaccompanied minors, according to media, under care of Kent council. No different than that double murderer who got convicted for murder here recently.
Of course the hand cowards will no doubt start parrotting establishment lines like 'far right'and 'not all asylum seekers.
Dishonesty is dishonesty and if you come here from that starting point it is rational, logical, and reasonable not to trust you."Why is it only "cowards" who don't buy into the bigotry of blaming all asylum seekers? | |||
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"Why is it only "cowards" who don't buy into the bigotry of blaming all asylum seekers? " Because only cowards would parrot the state narrative for fear of upsetting their own social standing. Parroting terms they read or hear from the very established entities and groups they complain about. Posting links to studies paid for and commissioned by the very power systems that control them. | |||
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"I find it strange a city like Liverpool has a far right cohort. Think more protests are on the horizon this time in Kent. 4 boys been arrested for the alleged r@pe of a girl at school. The alleged offenders are Afghan. Unaccompanied minors, according to media, under care of Kent council. No different than that double murderer who got convicted for murder here recently.
Of course the hand cowards will no doubt start parrotting establishment lines like 'far right'and 'not all asylum seekers.
Dishonesty is dishonesty and if you come here from that starting point it is rational, logical, and reasonable not to trust you."So just to be clear, are you saying that everybody, not just the far right are violently opposed to people of other ethnicities? Are you also saying that all asylum seekers are not genuine and mean to do harm to Britain and its people? That is not an accusation, it is just how it reads if you mirror what you have written. If that is not the case, then what do you mean? | |||
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"I find it strange a city like Liverpool has a far right cohort. Think more protests are on the horizon this time in Kent. 4 boys been arrested for the alleged r@pe of a girl at school. The alleged offenders are Afghan. It’s known locally that the same thing happened in Liverpool but it’s not been reported by the public. The alyssum seekers have been told of the UK and think it’s a perfect promise land. When they get here they are kept locked up in hotels kind of like a open prison and it’s causing a lot of tension and unrest. The situation will only get worse " "Known locally" as fact or rumour? How are you informed about the view of those seeking asylum? Have you spoken to them about their belief of this being a "perfect promised land" or is this something that you assume or have heard? I certainly agree that the situation as it stands with months or years of waiting for a decision will lead to tension. | |||
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"It's truly astonishing to see so many people on this thread either supporting or sympathising with a mob clearly bolstered by far right thugs. When we have politicians like Suella Braverman spewing hate filled dehumanising rhetoric then it's no wonder we see it spill over into violence, racism and intimidation. We've seen it all before, even in this country with "Rivers of Blood". These politicians know exactly what they are doing. Even if the supposed reason that some above claim is true, it was the actions of one person. It is clearly racist to terrorise those vulnerable people in this way. Why is the anger not pointed at the government who clearly stoke such racism? Why are we not angry at the delays in processing applications meaning people being ghettoised in such conditions? Blaming those who have fled such horrors is the lowest of the low." What makes me dislike "your" point of view is the way you take a reported crime and somehow manage to pass it off as probably made up, even trivial and I noticed you do this before.... You turn yourself into the exact same thing you despise, not in name but in action and thought, bigotry works both ways. | |||
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"Why is it only "cowards" who don't buy into the bigotry of blaming all asylum seekers? Because only cowards would parrot the state narrative for fear of upsetting their own social standing. Parroting terms they read or hear from the very established entities and groups they complain about. Posting links to studies paid for and commissioned by the very power systems that control them." Surely you're the one parroting government lines. We have a hard right government with Ministers like Braverman rolling out racism and dehumanising language left right and centre. The establishment line seems to be being pushed by you more than those you accuse of cowardice. Racism, bigotry and blaming the most vulnerable is not bravery. | |||
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"Why is it only "cowards" who don't buy into the bigotry of blaming all asylum seekers? Because only cowards would parrot the state narrative for fear of upsetting their own social standing. Parroting terms they read or hear from the very established entities and groups they complain about. Posting links to studies paid for and commissioned by the very power systems that control them. Surely you're the one parroting government lines. We have a hard right government with Ministers like Braverman rolling out racism and dehumanising language left right and centre. The establishment line seems to be being pushed by you more than those you accuse of cowardice. Racism, bigotry and blaming the most vulnerable is not bravery." Is this the same Braverman? "I condemn the appalling disorder in Knowsley last night. The alleged behaviour of some asylum seekers is never an excuse for violence and intimidation." | |||
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"Why is it only "cowards" who don't buy into the bigotry of blaming all asylum seekers? Because only cowards would parrot the state narrative for fear of upsetting their own social standing. Parroting terms they read or hear from the very established entities and groups they complain about. Posting links to studies paid for and commissioned by the very power systems that control them." Erm. The government is championing this kind of hateful behaviour to minority groups. It's in their interests to keep us divided. | |||
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"Why is it only "cowards" who don't buy into the bigotry of blaming all asylum seekers? Because only cowards would parrot the state narrative for fear of upsetting their own social standing. Parroting terms they read or hear from the very established entities and groups they complain about. Posting links to studies paid for and commissioned by the very power systems that control them. Erm. The government is championing this kind of hateful behaviour to minority groups. It's in their interests to keep us divided. " Wait, maybe I misunderstood. You're describing the boneheads that are protesting at the asylum seekers temporary residences. But earlier you said you hope there are more of these protests. Or maybe I am completely missing the point you are making. | |||
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"Why is it only "cowards" who don't buy into the bigotry of blaming all asylum seekers? Because only cowards would parrot the state narrative for fear of upsetting their own social standing. Parroting terms they read or hear from the very established entities and groups they complain about. Posting links to studies paid for and commissioned by the very power systems that control them. Surely you're the one parroting government lines. We have a hard right government with Ministers like Braverman rolling out racism and dehumanising language left right and centre. The establishment line seems to be being pushed by you more than those you accuse of cowardice. Racism, bigotry and blaming the most vulnerable is not bravery. Is this the same Braverman? "I condemn the appalling disorder in Knowsley last night. The alleged behaviour of some asylum seekers is never an excuse for violence and intimidation."" This Braverman yes. Notice she still seeks to lay some blame even when claiming not to. This Braverman also ‘I would love to have a front page of the Telegraph with a plane taking off to Rwanda, that’s my dream, it’s my obsession’ Or this one, reported in the Guardian. "The home secretary, Suella Braverman, who last week caused outrage by referring to asylum seekers entering the UK as an “invasion”, had been warned by government lawyers that inflammatory immigration rhetoric risked inspiring a far-right terror attack. Braverman’s comments came just one day after a man with links to the far right threw firebombs at a Dover immigration centre. On Saturday, counter-terrorism police announced they had found evidence that the attack was motivated by an “extreme rightwing” terrorist ideology." They know what they're doing. It's their way of deflecting from the mess they're making of the entire economy by creating racial unrest and scapegoats. They've always done it. | |||
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"Why is it only "cowards" who don't buy into the bigotry of blaming all asylum seekers? Because only cowards would parrot the state narrative for fear of upsetting their own social standing. Parroting terms they read or hear from the very established entities and groups they complain about. Posting links to studies paid for and commissioned by the very power systems that control them. Surely you're the one parroting government lines. We have a hard right government with Ministers like Braverman rolling out racism and dehumanising language left right and centre. The establishment line seems to be being pushed by you more than those you accuse of cowardice. Racism, bigotry and blaming the most vulnerable is not bravery. Is this the same Braverman? "I condemn the appalling disorder in Knowsley last night. The alleged behaviour of some asylum seekers is never an excuse for violence and intimidation." This Braverman yes. Notice she still seeks to lay some blame even when claiming not to. This Braverman also ‘I would love to have a front page of the Telegraph with a plane taking off to Rwanda, that’s my dream, it’s my obsession’ Or this one, reported in the Guardian. "The home secretary, Suella Braverman, who last week caused outrage by referring to asylum seekers entering the UK as an “invasion”, had been warned by government lawyers that inflammatory immigration rhetoric risked inspiring a far-right terror attack. Braverman’s comments came just one day after a man with links to the far right threw firebombs at a Dover immigration centre. On Saturday, counter-terrorism police announced they had found evidence that the attack was motivated by an “extreme rightwing” terrorist ideology." They know what they're doing. It's their way of deflecting from the mess they're making of the entire economy by creating racial unrest and scapegoats. They've always done it. " Oh, I see. Her comments only count when it suits you. You're no better than the very people you despise. | |||
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"Why is it only "cowards" who don't buy into the bigotry of blaming all asylum seekers? Because only cowards would parrot the state narrative for fear of upsetting their own social standing. Parroting terms they read or hear from the very established entities and groups they complain about. Posting links to studies paid for and commissioned by the very power systems that control them. Surely you're the one parroting government lines. We have a hard right government with Ministers like Braverman rolling out racism and dehumanising language left right and centre. The establishment line seems to be being pushed by you more than those you accuse of cowardice. Racism, bigotry and blaming the most vulnerable is not bravery. Is this the same Braverman? "I condemn the appalling disorder in Knowsley last night. The alleged behaviour of some asylum seekers is never an excuse for violence and intimidation." This Braverman yes. Notice she still seeks to lay some blame even when claiming not to. This Braverman also ‘I would love to have a front page of the Telegraph with a plane taking off to Rwanda, that’s my dream, it’s my obsession’ Or this one, reported in the Guardian. "The home secretary, Suella Braverman, who last week caused outrage by referring to asylum seekers entering the UK as an “invasion”, had been warned by government lawyers that inflammatory immigration rhetoric risked inspiring a far-right terror attack. Braverman’s comments came just one day after a man with links to the far right threw firebombs at a Dover immigration centre. On Saturday, counter-terrorism police announced they had found evidence that the attack was motivated by an “extreme rightwing” terrorist ideology." They know what they're doing. It's their way of deflecting from the mess they're making of the entire economy by creating racial unrest and scapegoats. They've always done it. Oh, I see. Her comments only count when it suits you. You're no better than the very people you despise. " The point is, she makes a lot of comments that emboldens and energises the type of people who protest at places housing asylum seekers. Then condemns the behaviour. Maybe she does it on purpose. Or maybe she is not that clever. | |||
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"I think there will be a lot more of this. Some are housed in my local town in what was one of the towns oldest hotel with a great reputation and they have ruined it. The fire brigade are called out a few times a week due to them starting fires in the rooms. I’m really concerned as to how this will play out. " There will be lots more of this as people get more and more fed up these people being here | |||
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"Why is it only "cowards" who don't buy into the bigotry of blaming all asylum seekers? Because only cowards would parrot the state narrative for fear of upsetting their own social standing. Parroting terms they read or hear from the very established entities and groups they complain about. Posting links to studies paid for and commissioned by the very power systems that control them. Surely you're the one parroting government lines. We have a hard right government with Ministers like Braverman rolling out racism and dehumanising language left right and centre. The establishment line seems to be being pushed by you more than those you accuse of cowardice. Racism, bigotry and blaming the most vulnerable is not bravery. Is this the same Braverman? "I condemn the appalling disorder in Knowsley last night. The alleged behaviour of some asylum seekers is never an excuse for violence and intimidation." This Braverman yes. Notice she still seeks to lay some blame even when claiming not to. This Braverman also ‘I would love to have a front page of the Telegraph with a plane taking off to Rwanda, that’s my dream, it’s my obsession’ Or this one, reported in the Guardian. "The home secretary, Suella Braverman, who last week caused outrage by referring to asylum seekers entering the UK as an “invasion”, had been warned by government lawyers that inflammatory immigration rhetoric risked inspiring a far-right terror attack. Braverman’s comments came just one day after a man with links to the far right threw firebombs at a Dover immigration centre. On Saturday, counter-terrorism police announced they had found evidence that the attack was motivated by an “extreme rightwing” terrorist ideology." They know what they're doing. It's their way of deflecting from the mess they're making of the entire economy by creating racial unrest and scapegoats. They've always done it. Oh, I see. Her comments only count when it suits you. You're no better than the very people you despise. The point is, she makes a lot of comments that emboldens and energises the type of people who protest at places housing asylum seekers. Then condemns the behaviour. Maybe she does it on purpose. Or maybe she is not that clever. " I don't deny she makes comments. I just don't like it when people certain comments because it suits their agenda whilst ignoring others. I guess the argument is that Braverman spreads misinformation? That particular posted is also very much spreading misinformation whilst kicking off about others doing it. It's straight up hypocrisy, something we see a lot of round here. | |||
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"It seems that there has been some trouble again at a hotel housing asylum seekers recently. It appears that a protest started peacefully but for whatever reason turned to violence. Apparently there was a counter protest to. Should such protests be allowed given the sensitive nature or should the freedom to protest outweigh all other issues." What does "sensitive nature" mean? Is that just stuff that you think people shouldn't talk about or say? Admittedly the list does seem to be getting longer by the day. | |||
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"I think there will be a lot more of this. Some are housed in my local town in what was one of the towns oldest hotel with a great reputation and they have ruined it. The fire brigade are called out a few times a week due to them starting fires in the rooms. I’m really concerned as to how this will play out. There will be lots more of this as people get more and more fed up these people being here " Are they a bit thick these “fed up people” ? The people that need targeting are in Whitehall. They enabled this situation. The refugees are a symptom - the cause should be the target of their ire. Perhaps they are just too thick and stupid to understand? I guess you have to be a bit fucking stupid to turn up at a hotel full of refugees looking for a fight. | |||
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"I think there will be a lot more of this. Some are housed in my local town in what was one of the towns oldest hotel with a great reputation and they have ruined it. The fire brigade are called out a few times a week due to them starting fires in the rooms. I’m really concerned as to how this will play out. There will be lots more of this as people get more and more fed up these people being here " I agree. People are being force fed anti foreigner rhetoric from every angle. And the more moronic ones take to protesting outside the asylum seekers temporary accommodation. | |||
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"There are no safe routes for the vast majority of asylum seekers. It would remove the small boats issue if the UK government reestablished safe routes via Embassies. You have to be on UK soil to claim asylum. While some are purely economic migrants, many (most is seems) clearly have legitimate claims for asylum based in the % that eventually get granted asylum. The “first safe country” is not an international convention. It was something the EU introduced that would then see them allocating asylum seekers and refugees on a pro-rated basis. We are not in the EU. One of the primary reasons many of the asylum seekers want to come to the UK is language (English being the most widely spoken language). Another is historical/colonial reasons. Another is familial connections with people already in the UK (family sponsorship has been stopped in the UK I believe). Another is the proxy wars the UK has fought in the Middle East displacing millions of people. So there is a moral dilemma too! " I'm shocked that you think it's all our fault that people are breaking the law. Especially all those wars we started in Albania. I think it's time for the Left and Labour simply to open up and be honest. You believe in open borders, that anyone who feels like it should be allowed to live in the UK. That's a perfectly valid perspective and time for Labour and its followers on the Left to be honest about it. It's what is happening in reality anyway, and once we all admit it we can sack everyone who has anything to do with border control as we know they are doing fuck all, and we can all get a tax reduction. | |||
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"It seems that there has been some trouble again at a hotel housing asylum seekers recently. It appears that a protest started peacefully but for whatever reason turned to violence. Apparently there was a counter protest to. Should such protests be allowed given the sensitive nature or should the freedom to protest outweigh all other issues. What does "sensitive nature" mean? Is that just stuff that you think people shouldn't talk about or say? Admittedly the list does seem to be getting longer by the day." Bigots are usually extremely sensitive about being called out. | |||
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"There are no safe routes for the vast majority of asylum seekers. It would remove the small boats issue if the UK government reestablished safe routes via Embassies. You have to be on UK soil to claim asylum. While some are purely economic migrants, many (most is seems) clearly have legitimate claims for asylum based in the % that eventually get granted asylum. The “first safe country” is not an international convention. It was something the EU introduced that would then see them allocating asylum seekers and refugees on a pro-rated basis. We are not in the EU. One of the primary reasons many of the asylum seekers want to come to the UK is language (English being the most widely spoken language). Another is historical/colonial reasons. Another is familial connections with people already in the UK (family sponsorship has been stopped in the UK I believe). Another is the proxy wars the UK has fought in the Middle East displacing millions of people. So there is a moral dilemma too! I'm shocked that you think it's all our fault that people are breaking the law. Especially all those wars we started in Albania. I think it's time for the Left and Labour simply to open up and be honest. You believe in open borders, that anyone who feels like it should be allowed to live in the UK. That's a perfectly valid perspective and time for Labour and its followers on the Left to be honest about it. It's what is happening in reality anyway, and once we all admit it we can sack everyone who has anything to do with border control as we know they are doing fuck all, and we can all get a tax reduction. " That's right. We only have two options here. 1. Blame foriegners for everything. 2. Open all the boarder and sack all the border control staff. Bearing in mind to label anyone who doesn't hate foreigners as "labour" and "the left". | |||
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"It seems that there has been some trouble again at a hotel housing asylum seekers recently. It appears that a protest started peacefully but for whatever reason turned to violence. Apparently there was a counter protest to. Should such protests be allowed given the sensitive nature or should the freedom to protest outweigh all other issues. What does "sensitive nature" mean? Is that just stuff that you think people shouldn't talk about or say? Admittedly the list does seem to be getting longer by the day. Bigots are usually extremely sensitive about being called out. " The only bigot on here is you. Another productive day spreading the love on the politics forum of a swingers' website. You really are changing the world one keyboard stroke at a time. | |||
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"It seems that there has been some trouble again at a hotel housing asylum seekers recently. It appears that a protest started peacefully but for whatever reason turned to violence. Apparently there was a counter protest to. Should such protests be allowed given the sensitive nature or should the freedom to protest outweigh all other issues. What does "sensitive nature" mean? Is that just stuff that you think people shouldn't talk about or say? Admittedly the list does seem to be getting longer by the day. Bigots are usually extremely sensitive about being called out. The only bigot on here is you. Another productive day spreading the love on the politics forum of a swingers' website. You really are changing the world one keyboard stroke at a time."  | |||
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"It seems that there has been some trouble again at a hotel housing asylum seekers recently. It appears that a protest started peacefully but for whatever reason turned to violence. Apparently there was a counter protest to. Should such protests be allowed given the sensitive nature or should the freedom to protest outweigh all other issues. What does "sensitive nature" mean? Is that just stuff that you think people shouldn't talk about or say? Admittedly the list does seem to be getting longer by the day. Bigots are usually extremely sensitive about being called out. The only bigot on here is you. Another productive day spreading the love on the politics forum of a swingers' website. You really are changing the world one keyboard stroke at a time." Brilliant | |||
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"Why is it only "cowards" who don't buy into the bigotry of blaming all asylum seekers? Because only cowards would parrot the state narrative for fear of upsetting their own social standing. Parroting terms they read or hear from the very established entities and groups they complain about. Posting links to studies paid for and commissioned by the very power systems that control them. Surely you're the one parroting government lines. We have a hard right government with Ministers like Braverman rolling out racism and dehumanising language left right and centre. The establishment line seems to be being pushed by you more than those you accuse of cowardice. Racism, bigotry and blaming the most vulnerable is not bravery. Is this the same Braverman? "I condemn the appalling disorder in Knowsley last night. The alleged behaviour of some asylum seekers is never an excuse for violence and intimidation." This Braverman yes. Notice she still seeks to lay some blame even when claiming not to. This Braverman also ‘I would love to have a front page of the Telegraph with a plane taking off to Rwanda, that’s my dream, it’s my obsession’ Or this one, reported in the Guardian. "The home secretary, Suella Braverman, who last week caused outrage by referring to asylum seekers entering the UK as an “invasion”, had been warned by government lawyers that inflammatory immigration rhetoric risked inspiring a far-right terror attack. Braverman’s comments came just one day after a man with links to the far right threw firebombs at a Dover immigration centre. On Saturday, counter-terrorism police announced they had found evidence that the attack was motivated by an “extreme rightwing” terrorist ideology." They know what they're doing. It's their way of deflecting from the mess they're making of the entire economy by creating racial unrest and scapegoats. They've always done it. Oh, I see. Her comments only count when it suits you. You're no better than the very people you despise. " Exactly the same as you I see. | |||
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"Why is it only "cowards" who don't buy into the bigotry of blaming all asylum seekers? Because only cowards would parrot the state narrative for fear of upsetting their own social standing. Parroting terms they read or hear from the very established entities and groups they complain about. Posting links to studies paid for and commissioned by the very power systems that control them. Surely you're the one parroting government lines. We have a hard right government with Ministers like Braverman rolling out racism and dehumanising language left right and centre. The establishment line seems to be being pushed by you more than those you accuse of cowardice. Racism, bigotry and blaming the most vulnerable is not bravery. Is this the same Braverman? "I condemn the appalling disorder in Knowsley last night. The alleged behaviour of some asylum seekers is never an excuse for violence and intimidation." This Braverman yes. Notice she still seeks to lay some blame even when claiming not to. This Braverman also ‘I would love to have a front page of the Telegraph with a plane taking off to Rwanda, that’s my dream, it’s my obsession’ Or this one, reported in the Guardian. "The home secretary, Suella Braverman, who last week caused outrage by referring to asylum seekers entering the UK as an “invasion”, had been warned by government lawyers that inflammatory immigration rhetoric risked inspiring a far-right terror attack. Braverman’s comments came just one day after a man with links to the far right threw firebombs at a Dover immigration centre. On Saturday, counter-terrorism police announced they had found evidence that the attack was motivated by an “extreme rightwing” terrorist ideology." They know what they're doing. It's their way of deflecting from the mess they're making of the entire economy by creating racial unrest and scapegoats. They've always done it. Oh, I see. Her comments only count when it suits you. You're no better than the very people you despise. Exactly the same as you I see. " 
I'm not here hating anyone so not sure how you came to that conclusion
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"There are no safe routes for the vast majority of asylum seekers. It would remove the small boats issue if the UK government reestablished safe routes via Embassies. You have to be on UK soil to claim asylum. While some are purely economic migrants, many (most is seems) clearly have legitimate claims for asylum based in the % that eventually get granted asylum. The “first safe country” is not an international convention. It was something the EU introduced that would then see them allocating asylum seekers and refugees on a pro-rated basis. We are not in the EU. One of the primary reasons many of the asylum seekers want to come to the UK is language (English being the most widely spoken language). Another is historical/colonial reasons. Another is familial connections with people already in the UK (family sponsorship has been stopped in the UK I believe). Another is the proxy wars the UK has fought in the Middle East displacing millions of people. So there is a moral dilemma too! I'm shocked that you think it's all our fault that people are breaking the law. Especially all those wars we started in Albania. I think it's time for the Left and Labour simply to open up and be honest. You believe in open borders, that anyone who feels like it should be allowed to live in the UK. That's a perfectly valid perspective and time for Labour and its followers on the Left to be honest about it. It's what is happening in reality anyway, and once we all admit it we can sack everyone who has anything to do with border control as we know they are doing fuck all, and we can all get a tax reduction. " And I’m “shocked” (ie not really) that was your take away from my post? Bizarre? 
I was just stating facts. And they are facts. It provides context. I am not blaming anyone. Perhaps re-read what was written. | |||
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"There are no safe routes for the vast majority of asylum seekers. It would remove the small boats issue if the UK government reestablished safe routes via Embassies. You have to be on UK soil to claim asylum. While some are purely economic migrants, many (most is seems) clearly have legitimate claims for asylum based in the % that eventually get granted asylum. The “first safe country” is not an international convention. It was something the EU introduced that would then see them allocating asylum seekers and refugees on a pro-rated basis. We are not in the EU. One of the primary reasons many of the asylum seekers want to come to the UK is language (English being the most widely spoken language). Another is historical/colonial reasons. Another is familial connections with people already in the UK (family sponsorship has been stopped in the UK I believe). Another is the proxy wars the UK has fought in the Middle East displacing millions of people. So there is a moral dilemma too! I'm shocked that you think it's all our fault that people are breaking the law. Especially all those wars we started in Albania. I think it's time for the Left and Labour simply to open up and be honest. You believe in open borders, that anyone who feels like it should be allowed to live in the UK. That's a perfectly valid perspective and time for Labour and its followers on the Left to be honest about it. It's what is happening in reality anyway, and once we all admit it we can sack everyone who has anything to do with border control as we know they are doing fuck all, and we can all get a tax reduction. And I’m “shocked” (ie not really) that was your take away from my post? Bizarre?
I was just stating facts. And they are facts. It provides context. I am not blaming anyone. Perhaps re-read what was written."I doubt they read the 1st bit of what you wrote there at all. It's the key to all this. In many cases, there are no safe & legal routes for migration. That's what drives the illegal crossings. Because people know the only way to claim asylum is to get here in any way they can then claim asylum. The government knows all this. It seems they have no interest in working on solutions. They seem far more interested in demonising & othering foreigners to get their base frothing at the mouth. | |||
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"So it seems from some posts that prior to the protest there was some sort of alleged incident involving an asylum seeker and a local. Is this the reason for the protest or would it have happened anyway. I have seen some reports of small towns doubling in population size due to asylum seekers in the local hotels. Local tourism suffering due to lack of accommodation for visitors. Is this also the situation where this protest took place. To be clear I don't blame the asylum seekers as they have gone to the accommodation they were told to. More efficient processing of claims would help I think" it was the "legitimate" spark that i fear many were waiting for. After all, it's depressingly not unusual for a 15yo old girl, yet this was the occasion that they decided to protest. Hmmm I agree the focus (and our protests) should be at the government for not being quick enough to process or react to changes in numbers (or even demographics). As ever we make something "illegal" and then bemoan the people who are forced to break the law. I do wonder the cross over between people who want asylum seekers to be kicked out "coz they are here illegally" and those who speed, take drugs, or broke curfew. | |||
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"So it seems from some posts that prior to the protest there was some sort of alleged incident involving an asylum seeker and a local. Is this the reason for the protest or would it have happened anyway. I have seen some reports of small towns doubling in population size due to asylum seekers in the local hotels. Local tourism suffering due to lack of accommodation for visitors. Is this also the situation where this protest took place. To be clear I don't blame the asylum seekers as they have gone to the accommodation they were told to. More efficient processing of claims would help I thinkit was the "legitimate" spark that i fear many were waiting for. After all, it's depressingly not unusual for a 15yo old girl, yet this was the occasion that they decided to protest. Hmmm I agree the focus (and our protests) should be at the government for not being quick enough to process or react to changes in numbers (or even demographics). As ever we make something "illegal" and then bemoan the people who are forced to break the law. I do wonder the cross over between people who want asylum seekers to be kicked out "coz they are here illegally" and those who speed, take drugs, or broke curfew. " There really is no difference between doing 21 in a 20mph zone and murdering a few people. | |||
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"So it seems from some posts that prior to the protest there was some sort of alleged incident involving an asylum seeker and a local. Is this the reason for the protest or would it have happened anyway. I have seen some reports of small towns doubling in population size due to asylum seekers in the local hotels. Local tourism suffering due to lack of accommodation for visitors. Is this also the situation where this protest took place. To be clear I don't blame the asylum seekers as they have gone to the accommodation they were told to. More efficient processing of claims would help I thinkit was the "legitimate" spark that i fear many were waiting for. After all, it's depressingly not unusual for a 15yo old girl, yet this was the occasion that they decided to protest. Hmmm I agree the focus (and our protests) should be at the government for not being quick enough to process or react to changes in numbers (or even demographics). As ever we make something "illegal" and then bemoan the people who are forced to break the law. I do wonder the cross over between people who want asylum seekers to be kicked out "coz they are here illegally" and those who speed, take drugs, or broke curfew. There really is no difference between doing 21 in a 20mph zone and murdering a few people. " who murdered a few people ? But that's not the point. It's those who point at their "illegal immigrant" status I'm comparing. | |||
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"So it seems from some posts that prior to the protest there was some sort of alleged incident involving an asylum seeker and a local. Is this the reason for the protest or would it have happened anyway. I have seen some reports of small towns doubling in population size due to asylum seekers in the local hotels. Local tourism suffering due to lack of accommodation for visitors. Is this also the situation where this protest took place. To be clear I don't blame the asylum seekers as they have gone to the accommodation they were told to. More efficient processing of claims would help I thinkit was the "legitimate" spark that i fear many were waiting for. After all, it's depressingly not unusual for a 15yo old girl, yet this was the occasion that they decided to protest. Hmmm I agree the focus (and our protests) should be at the government for not being quick enough to process or react to changes in numbers (or even demographics). As ever we make something "illegal" and then bemoan the people who are forced to break the law. I do wonder the cross over between people who want asylum seekers to be kicked out "coz they are here illegally" and those who speed, take drugs, or broke curfew. There really is no difference between doing 21 in a 20mph zone and murdering a few people. " Please explain that. | |||
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"A chap from Knowsley called into a radio show today and explained that he can no longer allow his daughters to leave the house alone, the problem is that bad. He also said that the schools have had to place netting around the playgrounds because of the number of men loitering and staring at the children. And yet the likes of the BBC and the Guardian now claim that Knowsley is some sort of bastion of far right wingers. Laughable " I blame the girls themselves, cavorting around alone in front of men. If they dressed more modestly and perhaps only left the house with a family chaperone none of this would be happening. | |||
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"A chap from Knowsley called into a radio show today and explained that he can no longer allow his daughters to leave the house alone, the problem is that bad. He also said that the schools have had to place netting around the playgrounds because of the number of men loitering and staring at the children. And yet the likes of the BBC and the Guardian now claim that Knowsley is some sort of bastion of far right wingers. Laughable " Do you know the name of radio show this was discussed on? | |||
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"A chap from Knowsley called into a radio show today and explained that he can no longer allow his daughters to leave the house alone, the problem is that bad. He also said that the schools have had to place netting around the playgrounds because of the number of men loitering and staring at the children. And yet the likes of the BBC and the Guardian now claim that Knowsley is some sort of bastion of far right wingers. Laughable I blame the girls themselves, cavorting around alone in front of men. If they dressed more modestly and perhaps only left the house with a family chaperone none of this would be happening." Ah, it's the fault of the girls, not the men who are completely unable to control themselves. Got it | |||
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"A chap from Knowsley called into a radio show today and explained that he can no longer allow his daughters to leave the house alone, the problem is that bad. He also said that the schools have had to place netting around the playgrounds because of the number of men loitering and staring at the children. And yet the likes of the BBC and the Guardian now claim that Knowsley is some sort of bastion of far right wingers. Laughable I blame the girls themselves, cavorting around alone in front of men. If they dressed more modestly and perhaps only left the house with a family chaperone none of this would be happening." The alleged showing of skin by some girls is never an excuse for sexual harrasment. /S | |||
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"A chap from Knowsley called into a radio show today and explained that he can no longer allow his daughters to leave the house alone, the problem is that bad. He also said that the schools have had to place netting around the playgrounds because of the number of men loitering and staring at the children. And yet the likes of the BBC and the Guardian now claim that Knowsley is some sort of bastion of far right wingers. Laughable I blame the girls themselves, cavorting around alone in front of men. If they dressed more modestly and perhaps only left the house with a family chaperone none of this would be happening.The alleged showing of skin by some girls is never an excuse for sexual harrasment. /S" I feel you have missed the sentiment, and with the above poster have maybe walked into the setup... | |||
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"A chap from Knowsley called into a radio show today and explained that he can no longer allow his daughters to leave the house alone, the problem is that bad. He also said that the schools have had to place netting around the playgrounds because of the number of men loitering and staring at the children. And yet the likes of the BBC and the Guardian now claim that Knowsley is some sort of bastion of far right wingers. Laughable I blame the girls themselves, cavorting around alone in front of men. If they dressed more modestly and perhaps only left the house with a family chaperone none of this would be happening. Ah, it's the fault of the girls, not the men who are completely unable to control themselves. Got it "It's like engaging with a robot that spouts every blob orthodox opinion going. | |||
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"A chap from Knowsley called into a radio show today and explained that he can no longer allow his daughters to leave the house alone, the problem is that bad. He also said that the schools have had to place netting around the playgrounds because of the number of men loitering and staring at the children. And yet the likes of the BBC and the Guardian now claim that Knowsley is some sort of bastion of far right wingers. Laughable I blame the girls themselves, cavorting around alone in front of men. If they dressed more modestly and perhaps only left the house with a family chaperone none of this would be happening.The alleged showing of skin by some girls is never an excuse for sexual harrasment. /S" Look these girls need to engage with other cultures now. They aren't living in the swinging sixties when they could pop out of school, hitch up their skirts a little, have a smoke and just have to put up with a few tutting passers by. They need to start being more sensitive to the fact that other British people have different attitudes and cultures. Perhaps it is time for cultural sensitivity to be taught more in schools to our young people so they are more prepared for the realities of modern Britain. Maybe schools and the police even need to extend their role to encompass the policing of dress, behaviour, and morality. | |||
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"A chap from Knowsley called into a radio show today and explained that he can no longer allow his daughters to leave the house alone, the problem is that bad. He also said that the schools have had to place netting around the playgrounds because of the number of men loitering and staring at the children. And yet the likes of the BBC and the Guardian now claim that Knowsley is some sort of bastion of far right wingers. Laughable I blame the girls themselves, cavorting around alone in front of men. If they dressed more modestly and perhaps only left the house with a family chaperone none of this would be happening.The alleged showing of skin by some girls is never an excuse for sexual harrasment. /S Look these girls need to engage with other cultures now. They aren't living in the swinging sixties when they could pop out of school, hitch up their skirts a little, have a smoke and just have to put up with a few tutting passers by. They need to start being more sensitive to the fact that other British people have different attitudes and cultures. Perhaps it is time for cultural sensitivity to be taught more in schools to our young people so they are more prepared for the realities of modern Britain. Maybe schools and the police even need to extend their role to encompass the policing of dress, behaviour, and morality." You come across like a proper sexist. 10 / 10. | |||
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"A chap from Knowsley called into a radio show today and explained that he can no longer allow his daughters to leave the house alone, the problem is that bad. He also said that the schools have had to place netting around the playgrounds because of the number of men loitering and staring at the children. And yet the likes of the BBC and the Guardian now claim that Knowsley is some sort of bastion of far right wingers. Laughable I blame the girls themselves, cavorting around alone in front of men. If they dressed more modestly and perhaps only left the house with a family chaperone none of this would be happening.The alleged showing of skin by some girls is never an excuse for sexual harrasment. /S Look these girls need to engage with other cultures now. They aren't living in the swinging sixties when they could pop out of school, hitch up their skirts a little, have a smoke and just have to put up with a few tutting passers by. They need to start being more sensitive to the fact that other British people have different attitudes and cultures. Perhaps it is time for cultural sensitivity to be taught more in schools to our young people so they are more prepared for the realities of modern Britain. Maybe schools and the police even need to extend their role to encompass the policing of dress, behaviour, and morality. You come across like a proper sexist. 10 / 10." Not at all, I am just acknowledging the reality on the ground. My personal opinions are irrelevant. | |||
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"A chap from Knowsley called into a radio show today and explained that he can no longer allow his daughters to leave the house alone, the problem is that bad. He also said that the schools have had to place netting around the playgrounds because of the number of men loitering and staring at the children. And yet the likes of the BBC and the Guardian now claim that Knowsley is some sort of bastion of far right wingers. Laughable I blame the girls themselves, cavorting around alone in front of men. If they dressed more modestly and perhaps only left the house with a family chaperone none of this would be happening.The alleged showing of skin by some girls is never an excuse for sexual harrasment. /S Look these girls need to engage with other cultures now. They aren't living in the swinging sixties when they could pop out of school, hitch up their skirts a little, have a smoke and just have to put up with a few tutting passers by. They need to start being more sensitive to the fact that other British people have different attitudes and cultures. Perhaps it is time for cultural sensitivity to be taught more in schools to our young people so they are more prepared for the realities of modern Britain. Maybe schools and the police even need to extend their role to encompass the policing of dress, behaviour, and morality." we should become more tolerant of our foreign friends. We need to look beyond the British tradition of stabbing 15yo or abducting kids, and start to embrace other crimes against them. | |||
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"I believe that the many people on this thread who have objected to or ridiculed the idea of girls and women having to "cover" up to prevent men from surrendering to their uncomfortable sexual urges are "bullying" the poster in question for no other reason that his beliefs are "right wing". Everyone should stop this immediately in case it "forces" him to leave the forum. Alternatively react as appropriate based on your differing views of the world based on your own lived experiences and thoughts without being personally abusive, which is what seems to be happening here." Always useful to get the view from Davos. | |||
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"My two pence... Anyone/Everyone who enters another country in any capacity should fully respect the culture and social norms of that country, no excuses. That should apply to immigrants who should be “tutored” on what is and is not acceptable. Any actions undertaken that are not acceptable should result in deportation. My view is that we should absolutely welcome and help genuine asylum seekers, but they must repay that kindness by respecting our laws and social norms." "Deportation". Fascist. | |||
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"My two pence... Anyone/Everyone who enters another country in any capacity should fully respect the culture and social norms of that country, no excuses. That should apply to immigrants who should be “tutored” on what is and is not acceptable. Any actions undertaken that are not acceptable should result in deportation. My view is that we should absolutely welcome and help genuine asylum seekers, but they must repay that kindness by respecting our laws and social norms. "Deportation". Fascist." What makes you think only right wingers want to protect our borders and ensure only the right people are claiming asylum? The difference is the approach taken and how you treat those people. | |||
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"My two pence... Anyone/Everyone who enters another country in any capacity should fully respect the culture and social norms of that country, no excuses. That should apply to immigrants who should be “tutored” on what is and is not acceptable. Any actions undertaken that are not acceptable should result in deportation. My view is that we should absolutely welcome and help genuine asylum seekers, but they must repay that kindness by respecting our laws and social norms. "Deportation". Fascist. What makes you think only right wingers want to protect our borders and ensure only the right people are claiming asylum? The difference is the approach taken and how you treat those people." Look this is all too complicated. Just get the girls to cover up and stay at home. Then all these Albanian doctors can stay focused on saving our NHS. | |||
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"My two pence... Anyone/Everyone who enters another country in any capacity should fully respect the culture and social norms of that country, no excuses. That should apply to immigrants who should be “tutored” on what is and is not acceptable. Any actions undertaken that are not acceptable should result in deportation. My view is that we should absolutely welcome and help genuine asylum seekers, but they must repay that kindness by respecting our laws and social norms. "Deportation". Fascist. What makes you think only right wingers want to protect our borders and ensure only the right people are claiming asylum? The difference is the approach taken and how you treat those people. Look this is all too complicated. Just get the girls to cover up and stay at home. Then all these Albanian doctors can stay focused on saving our NHS." I know you aren’t serious! Not complicated at all. Respect the law and social norms of your adoptive country. | |||
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"My two pence... Anyone/Everyone who enters another country in any capacity should fully respect the culture and social norms of that country, no excuses. That should apply to immigrants who should be “tutored” on what is and is not acceptable. Any actions undertaken that are not acceptable should result in deportation. My view is that we should absolutely welcome and help genuine asylum seekers, but they must repay that kindness by respecting our laws and social norms. "Deportation". Fascist. What makes you think only right wingers want to protect our borders and ensure only the right people are claiming asylum? The difference is the approach taken and how you treat those people." There was a thread on this where criminality whilst being hosted in the UK would reasonably lead to loss of status and therefore deportation. Some felt that this should include civil offences like a parking ticket and extend to loss of citizenship if that was obtained. Seems more than excessive to me. Amazed that the poor at upon right weren't too intimidated to express their "reasonable" opinions. | |||
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"I think there will be a lot more of this. Some are housed in my local town in what was one of the towns oldest hotel with a great reputation and they have ruined it. The fire brigade are called out a few times a week due to them starting fires in the rooms. I’m really concerned as to how this will play out. " With 45K people making the crossing last year and I believe 70% of claims being successful, I can only imagine this is going to be more common place. I'm making a sweeping assumption that there is not enough accommodation to house such numbers. Using hotels seems a good idea on paper but I guess the reality is different. Hotel rooms are okay for short stays, but I couldn't imagine living in the average hotel room for a long period of time. Large groups of foreign men bored with nowhere to go, is going to look out of place, which leads to mistrust and here we are. I have no idea what the answer is, but I can see how bad situations are being created. | |||
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"I think there will be a lot more of this. Some are housed in my local town in what was one of the towns oldest hotel with a great reputation and they have ruined it. The fire brigade are called out a few times a week due to them starting fires in the rooms. I’m really concerned as to how this will play out. With 45K people making the crossing last year and I believe 70% of claims being successful, I can only imagine this is going to be more common place. I'm making a sweeping assumption that there is not enough accommodation to house such numbers. Using hotels seems a good idea on paper but I guess the reality is different. Hotel rooms are okay for short stays, but I couldn't imagine living in the average hotel room for a long period of time. Large groups of foreign men bored with nowhere to go, is going to look out of place, which leads to mistrust and here we are. I have no idea what the answer is, but I can see how bad situations are being created. " Sure this top of the head idea can be picked apart quite easily but here goes... Build some decent accommodation in areas where we need workers (rural/farming comes to mind). House asylum seekers there and provide them with jobs and income to get them started. Provides various benefits: 1. Self worth and an income for asylum seekers 2. They are “paying back” their new host country with good old honest labour 3. Stops the use of hotels (with the huge cost to tax payers and resentment in the community) 4. Building the accommodation will benefit the local communities with jobs and supply chain (along with maintenance contracts) 5. Local areas lacking workers get to fill their needs while paying the standard going rate set by the Govt. 6. The asylum seeker will develop a footprint and demonstrate how they will be good “citizens” in the UK adding to society before eventually moving on the start a new life (with a CV and references). But what do I know! | |||
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"I think there will be a lot more of this. Some are housed in my local town in what was one of the towns oldest hotel with a great reputation and they have ruined it. The fire brigade are called out a few times a week due to them starting fires in the rooms. I’m really concerned as to how this will play out. With 45K people making the crossing last year and I believe 70% of claims being successful, I can only imagine this is going to be more common place. I'm making a sweeping assumption that there is not enough accommodation to house such numbers. Using hotels seems a good idea on paper but I guess the reality is different. Hotel rooms are okay for short stays, but I couldn't imagine living in the average hotel room for a long period of time. Large groups of foreign men bored with nowhere to go, is going to look out of place, which leads to mistrust and here we are. I have no idea what the answer is, but I can see how bad situations are being created. " are the hotels used for successful asylum seekers? Or just those in the process ? If the latter then part of the answer is to speed up the process. That also helps other challenges (eg someone's claim becomes stronger over time due to say, having a kid here) | |||
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"Asylum seekers are not allowed to work in the uk,they may apply after 12 months If they have heard nothing,but they are restricted to what they do,so no they don't contribute to this society,while they are seeking asylum" The government should sort out the processing so it's quicker. Get them registered and contributing. | |||
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"I think there will be a lot more of this. Some are housed in my local town in what was one of the towns oldest hotel with a great reputation and they have ruined it. The fire brigade are called out a few times a week due to them starting fires in the rooms. I’m really concerned as to how this will play out. With 45K people making the crossing last year and I believe 70% of claims being successful, I can only imagine this is going to be more common place. I'm making a sweeping assumption that there is not enough accommodation to house such numbers. Using hotels seems a good idea on paper but I guess the reality is different. Hotel rooms are okay for short stays, but I couldn't imagine living in the average hotel room for a long period of time. Large groups of foreign men bored with nowhere to go, is going to look out of place, which leads to mistrust and here we are. I have no idea what the answer is, but I can see how bad situations are being created. Sure this top of the head idea can be picked apart quite easily but here goes... Build some decent accommodation in areas where we need workers (rural/farming comes to mind). House asylum seekers there and provide them with jobs and income to get them started. Provides various benefits: 1. Self worth and an income for asylum seekers 2. They are “paying back” their new host country with good old honest labour 3. Stops the use of hotels (with the huge cost to tax payers and resentment in the community) 4. Building the accommodation will benefit the local communities with jobs and supply chain (along with maintenance contracts) 5. Local areas lacking workers get to fill their needs while paying the standard going rate set by the Govt. 6. The asylum seeker will develop a footprint and demonstrate how they will be good “citizens” in the UK adding to society before eventually moving on the start a new life (with a CV and references). But what do I know! " If this was a chosen way forward I expect it would stoke more backlash and encourage even more people to cross the channel. Also, this seems weighted to asylum seekers, how would this scheme be balanced out to support those who are unemployed, or seeking better opportunities that are resident? | |||
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"Where do we house them ?" Houses. | |||
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"Where do we house them ?" In houses or flats, are you suggesting we can’t accommodate 46,000 people in the UK, we have a population of 67 million . Get them processed faster, get them working and filling the huge number of job vacancies we have . | |||
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"And again,where do we house them ?" And again, houses or flats | |||
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"There is a chronic shortage of housing across the uk" There isn’t , there is a shortage of properties to buy | |||
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"There is ,places are not affordable to rent" There are 260,000 empty homes in England | |||
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"What does that mean ?" It means , there are 260,00 empty homes in England | |||
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"What are the rents ?" £200-£5000 a month | |||
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"Lol,nice try" Eh? What are the hotel rates? Per person? | |||
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"I think there will be a lot more of this. Some are housed in my local town in what was one of the towns oldest hotel with a great reputation and they have ruined it. The fire brigade are called out a few times a week due to them starting fires in the rooms. I’m really concerned as to how this will play out. With 45K people making the crossing last year and I believe 70% of claims being successful, I can only imagine this is going to be more common place. I'm making a sweeping assumption that there is not enough accommodation to house such numbers. Using hotels seems a good idea on paper but I guess the reality is different. Hotel rooms are okay for short stays, but I couldn't imagine living in the average hotel room for a long period of time. Large groups of foreign men bored with nowhere to go, is going to look out of place, which leads to mistrust and here we are. I have no idea what the answer is, but I can see how bad situations are being created. Sure this top of the head idea can be picked apart quite easily but here goes... Build some decent accommodation in areas where we need workers (rural/farming comes to mind). House asylum seekers there and provide them with jobs and income to get them started. Provides various benefits: 1. Self worth and an income for asylum seekers 2. They are “paying back” their new host country with good old honest labour 3. Stops the use of hotels (with the huge cost to tax payers and resentment in the community) 4. Building the accommodation will benefit the local communities with jobs and supply chain (along with maintenance contracts) 5. Local areas lacking workers get to fill their needs while paying the standard going rate set by the Govt. 6. The asylum seeker will develop a footprint and demonstrate how they will be good “citizens” in the UK adding to society before eventually moving on the start a new life (with a CV and references). But what do I know! If this was a chosen way forward I expect it would stoke more backlash and encourage even more people to cross the channel. Also, this seems weighted to asylum seekers, how would this scheme be balanced out to support those who are unemployed, or seeking better opportunities that are resident? " Apparently Brits do not want the jobs! Fruit picking and agriculture is hard work. There are not young enough people living rural areas to do the work and the wages are not enough to encourage them. But we have a potential workforce to tap into! | |||
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"I'm not talking about hotels,I'm talking about housing,try and keep up" £200-£5000 a month | |||
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"Your figures are wrong concerning the asylum seekers,the are 63.000, Look it up I'm talking about housing no hotels" 63,000, 260,000 empty houses, 67 million population, 1.13 million job vacancies, small problem with easy solutions | |||
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"Your figures are wrong concerning the asylum seekers,the are 63.000, Look it up I'm talking about housing no hotels 63,000, 260,000 empty houses, 67 million population, 1.13 million job vacancies, small problem with easy solutions "It's not quite as simple as you make out. There are 100k families in temporary accommodation, not counting actual homeless or 'sofa surfing'. Then there's actual million receiving housing benefit as top up so they can afford their rent. How many of the 260k homes are habitable? I know, we can fix them up but it's still not as simple as you make it out to be. | |||
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"Your figures are wrong concerning the asylum seekers,the are 63.000, Look it up I'm talking about housing no hotels 63,000, 260,000 empty houses, 67 million population, 1.13 million job vacancies, small problem with easy solutions "The empty homes might be empty, but they are the property of someone too. How would the empty homes be paid for? | |||
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"I think there will be a lot more of this. Some are housed in my local town in what was one of the towns oldest hotel with a great reputation and they have ruined it. The fire brigade are called out a few times a week due to them starting fires in the rooms. I’m really concerned as to how this will play out. With 45K people making the crossing last year and I believe 70% of claims being successful, I can only imagine this is going to be more common place. I'm making a sweeping assumption that there is not enough accommodation to house such numbers. Using hotels seems a good idea on paper but I guess the reality is different. Hotel rooms are okay for short stays, but I couldn't imagine living in the average hotel room for a long period of time. Large groups of foreign men bored with nowhere to go, is going to look out of place, which leads to mistrust and here we are. I have no idea what the answer is, but I can see how bad situations are being created. Sure this top of the head idea can be picked apart quite easily but here goes... Build some decent accommodation in areas where we need workers (rural/farming comes to mind). House asylum seekers there and provide them with jobs and income to get them started. Provides various benefits: 1. Self worth and an income for asylum seekers 2. They are “paying back” their new host country with good old honest labour 3. Stops the use of hotels (with the huge cost to tax payers and resentment in the community) 4. Building the accommodation will benefit the local communities with jobs and supply chain (along with maintenance contracts) 5. Local areas lacking workers get to fill their needs while paying the standard going rate set by the Govt. 6. The asylum seeker will develop a footprint and demonstrate how they will be good “citizens” in the UK adding to society before eventually moving on the start a new life (with a CV and references). But what do I know! If this was a chosen way forward I expect it would stoke more backlash and encourage even more people to cross the channel. Also, this seems weighted to asylum seekers, how would this scheme be balanced out to support those who are unemployed, or seeking better opportunities that are resident? Apparently Brits do not want the jobs! Fruit picking and agriculture is hard work. There are not young enough people living rural areas to do the work and the wages are not enough to encourage them. But we have a potential workforce to tap into!" As with many issues, this Government are trapped by their own ideology. They can’t be seen to appear to be going soft on immigration and with this issue if they back down, it will also highlight their other ideological folly with Brexit and the loss of employees. | |||
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"Your figures are wrong concerning the asylum seekers,the are 63.000, Look it up I'm talking about housing no hotels 63,000, 260,000 empty houses, 67 million population, 1.13 million job vacancies, small problem with easy solutions
The empty homes might be empty, but they are the property of someone too.
How would the empty homes be paid for?"The government (tax payers) would pay, just like they pay for hotels, it should be more cost effective?? | |||
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"And not all can afford the rents" The government pay until they are processed and can work | |||
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"Your figures are wrong concerning the asylum seekers,the are 63.000, Look it up I'm talking about housing no hotels 63,000, 260,000 empty houses, 67 million population, 1.13 million job vacancies, small problem with easy solutions
It's not quite as simple as you make out.
There are 100k families in temporary accommodation, not counting actual homeless or 'sofa surfing'. Then there's actual million receiving housing benefit as top up so they can afford their rent.
How many of the 260k homes are habitable? I know, we can fix them up but it's still not as simple as you make it out to be."I agree, it isn’t simple, but I think it’s a better option than using hotels | |||
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"Your figures are wrong concerning the asylum seekers,the are 63.000, Look it up I'm talking about housing no hotels 63,000, 260,000 empty houses, 67 million population, 1.13 million job vacancies, small problem with easy solutions
It's not quite as simple as you make out.
There are 100k families in temporary accommodation, not counting actual homeless or 'sofa surfing'. Then there's actual million receiving housing benefit as top up so they can afford their rent.
How many of the 260k homes are habitable? I know, we can fix them up but it's still not as simple as you make it out to be.
I agree, it isn’t simple, but I think it’s a better option than using hotels "I don't necessarily disagree that it's possibly a better option. However, you'll inevitably get the 'they're coming over taking our houses' argument. It already happens now so I'd imagine would increase dramatically | |||
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"Your figures are wrong concerning the asylum seekers,the are 63.000, Look it up I'm talking about housing no hotels 63,000, 260,000 empty houses, 67 million population, 1.13 million job vacancies, small problem with easy solutions
It's not quite as simple as you make out.
There are 100k families in temporary accommodation, not counting actual homeless or 'sofa surfing'. Then there's actual million receiving housing benefit as top up so they can afford their rent.
How many of the 260k homes are habitable? I know, we can fix them up but it's still not as simple as you make it out to be.
I agree, it isn’t simple, but I think it’s a better option than using hotels
I don't necessarily disagree that it's possibly a better option.
However, you'll inevitably get the 'they're coming over taking our houses' argument. It already happens now so I'd imagine would increase dramatically "They aren’t though, the houses are empty, anyway, why should we try to appease the vocal minority, you will never please them | |||
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"Your figures are wrong concerning the asylum seekers,the are 63.000, Look it up I'm talking about housing no hotels 63,000, 260,000 empty houses, 67 million population, 1.13 million job vacancies, small problem with easy solutions
It's not quite as simple as you make out.
There are 100k families in temporary accommodation, not counting actual homeless or 'sofa surfing'. Then there's actual million receiving housing benefit as top up so they can afford their rent.
How many of the 260k homes are habitable? I know, we can fix them up but it's still not as simple as you make it out to be.
I agree, it isn’t simple, but I think it’s a better option than using hotels
I don't necessarily disagree that it's possibly a better option.
However, you'll inevitably get the 'they're coming over taking our houses' argument. It already happens now so I'd imagine would increase dramatically
They aren’t though, the houses are empty, anyway, why should we try to appease
the vocal minority, you will never please them "Because those houses could be used for the 100k in temporary accommodation, sofa surfers and homeless. So yes, technically they would be. | |||
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"Your figures are wrong concerning the asylum seekers,the are 63.000, Look it up I'm talking about housing no hotels 63,000, 260,000 empty houses, 67 million population, 1.13 million job vacancies, small problem with easy solutions
The empty homes might be empty, but they are the property of someone too.
How would the empty homes be paid for?
The government (tax payers) would pay, just like they pay for hotels, it should be more cost effective?? "Most unoccupied homes are in London or on the coast, they are second or third homes, sitting empty but increasing in price. Buying up half of the stock would be a phenomenal amount of money, the upkeep would now sit with the local councils and trying to force people to sell their property would create hell on earth. It sounds great on paper but the realities of it are far from achievable, in my opinion. | |||
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"Controversial, rather than seeing it as foreigners versus homeless, is it possible we can reimagine the way we run out society so that both benefit... " We can. However, my point is, it isn't as simple as made out. We also know the far right will attach that headline and run as fast as they can with it | |||
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"Controversial, rather than seeing it as foreigners versus homeless, is it possible we can reimagine the way we run out society so that both benefit... We can. However, my point is, it isn't as simple as made out. We also know the far right will attach that headline and run as fast as they can with it" oh yeah. It wasn't aimed at you, just the general theme of how this thread went. | |||
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"Controversial, rather than seeing it as foreigners versus homeless, is it possible we can reimagine the way we run out society so that both benefit... We can. However, my point is, it isn't as simple as made out. We also know the far right will attach that headline and run as fast as they can with itoh yeah. It wasn't aimed at you, just the general theme of how this thread went. " I think the latter part of the thread was open and honest, questions, solutions and alternatives provided. How did you feel it went? | |||
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"Controversial, rather than seeing it as foreigners versus homeless, is it possible we can reimagine the way we run out society so that both benefit... We can. However, my point is, it isn't as simple as made out. We also know the far right will attach that headline and run as fast as they can with itoh yeah. It wasn't aimed at you, just the general theme of how this thread went. I think the latter part of the thread was open and honest, questions, solutions and alternatives provided. How did you feel it went?" As per Hovis how about we have a government that sets out to tackle both issues? The last time I visited Liverpool (it was Bootle actually) I took a taxi to see a client. There was street after street of boarded up terraced houses. Hundreds of them. I have no firsthand knowledge of whether that is a scene replicated across the country but it does seem criminal to me. How about spending some money actually regenerating the country and these areas. Creating communities. Levelling up LOL! You can put in place policies that ensure Brit Citz are top of the queue. As per my “Accommodation for Asylum Seekers” idea, the regeneration will create jobs and money will flow through supply chains. Communities need shops, schools, doctors etc creating jobs and a local economy. Incentivise bigger employers to build their facilities in the area creating more jobs. Yes it will cost but borrowing to fund infrastructure and long term investments should be what government does. They could launch specific regeneration bonds and generate huge positive PR. | |||
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"Controversial, rather than seeing it as foreigners versus homeless, is it possible we can reimagine the way we run out society so that both benefit... " I never understood this argument. "We can't we house our own". A. The government could do this anytime they wanted. Regardless of the situation with asylum seekers. They just choose not to. It's not an either/or. B. Isn't this the failure of government policy rather than the fault of those people seeking asylum. C. The people who make this argument don't seem to give a shit about homeless people any other days of the year. | |||
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"Controversial, rather than seeing it as foreigners versus homeless, is it possible we can reimagine the way we run out society so that both benefit... We can. However, my point is, it isn't as simple as made out. We also know the far right will attach that headline and run as fast as they can with itoh yeah. It wasn't aimed at you, just the general theme of how this thread went. I think the latter part of the thread was open and honest, questions, solutions and alternatives provided. How did you feel it went? As per Hovis how about we have a government that sets out to tackle both issues? The last time I visited Liverpool (it was Bootle actually) I took a taxi to see a client. There was street after street of boarded up terraced houses. Hundreds of them. I have no firsthand knowledge of whether that is a scene replicated across the country but it does seem criminal to me. How about spending some money actually regenerating the country and these areas. Creating communities. Levelling up LOL! You can put in place policies that ensure Brit Citz are top of the queue. As per my “Accommodation for Asylum Seekers” idea, the regeneration will create jobs and money will flow through supply chains. Communities need shops, schools, doctors etc creating jobs and a local economy. Incentivise bigger employers to build their facilities in the area creating more jobs. Yes it will cost but borrowing to fund infrastructure and long term investments should be what government does. They could launch specific regeneration bonds and generate huge positive PR." I actually agree. Personally I couldn't give two hoots how much it would cost. Surely, long term, it would balance out. We pay a ridiculous amount of money to temporary accommodation every year. I don't know how many houses are derelict. The figure for empty houses is 260k, the only measure for that is council tax. So, I'd imagine at least a 25% will be holiday homes etc. I don't know how it would work but compulsory purchase of derelict properties would be a great start. | |||
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"Controversial, rather than seeing it as foreigners versus homeless, is it possible we can reimagine the way we run out society so that both benefit... I never understood this argument. "We can't we house our own". A. The government could do this anytime they wanted. Regardless of the situation with asylum seekers. They just choose not to. It's not an either/or. B. Isn't this the failure of government policy rather than the fault of those people seeking asylum. C. The people who make this argument don't seem to give a shit about homeless people any other days of the year. " Of course they dont give a shut but it won't stop them using that argument. And that very argument will fuel others. | |||
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" I never understood this argument. "Why can't we house our own". A. The government could do this anytime they wanted. Regardless of the situation with asylum seekers. They just choose not to. It's not an either/or. B. Isn't this the failure of government policy rather than the fault of those people seeking asylum. C. The people who make this argument don't seem to give a shit about homeless people any other days of the year. " You could easily be talking about Ireland with that comment. I'm always fascinated by the groups who are now throwing that line out about "housing our own first". We've been deep in a housing crisis here for years with a complete lack of social/public housing due to government policy, and yet none of these groups ever got involved in the many protests held over government housing policy. Homeless people are only now being used as a stick to beat the government with in relation to asylum seekers but these people really don't give a shit about them. | |||
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"Controversial, rather than seeing it as foreigners versus homeless, is it possible we can reimagine the way we run out society so that both benefit... We can. However, my point is, it isn't as simple as made out. We also know the far right will attach that headline and run as fast as they can with itoh yeah. It wasn't aimed at you, just the general theme of how this thread went. I think the latter part of the thread was open and honest, questions, solutions and alternatives provided. How did you feel it went? As per Hovis how about we have a government that sets out to tackle both issues? The last time I visited Liverpool (it was Bootle actually) I took a taxi to see a client. There was street after street of boarded up terraced houses. Hundreds of them. I have no firsthand knowledge of whether that is a scene replicated across the country but it does seem criminal to me. How about spending some money actually regenerating the country and these areas. Creating communities. Levelling up LOL! You can put in place policies that ensure Brit Citz are top of the queue. As per my “Accommodation for Asylum Seekers” idea, the regeneration will create jobs and money will flow through supply chains. Communities need shops, schools, doctors etc creating jobs and a local economy. Incentivise bigger employers to build their facilities in the area creating more jobs. Yes it will cost but borrowing to fund infrastructure and long term investments should be what government does. They could launch specific regeneration bonds and generate huge positive PR. I actually agree. Personally I couldn't give two hoots how much it would cost. Surely, long term, it would balance out. We pay a ridiculous amount of money to temporary accommodation every year. I don't know how many houses are derelict. The figure for empty houses is 260k, the only measure for that is council tax. So, I'd imagine at least a 25% will be holiday homes etc. I don't know how it would work but compulsory purchase of derelict properties would be a great start." You “actually agree” makes it sound like you are surprised you agree 
(Not aimed at you) isn’t it funny how if we all calm down and start sensibly discussing stuff (leaving the blue and red ties in the cupboard) that we discover we have more in common than we thought! | |||
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"Controversial, rather than seeing it as foreigners versus homeless, is it possible we can reimagine the way we run out society so that both benefit... We can. However, my point is, it isn't as simple as made out. We also know the far right will attach that headline and run as fast as they can with itoh yeah. It wasn't aimed at you, just the general theme of how this thread went. I think the latter part of the thread was open and honest, questions, solutions and alternatives provided. How did you feel it went? As per Hovis how about we have a government that sets out to tackle both issues? The last time I visited Liverpool (it was Bootle actually) I took a taxi to see a client. There was street after street of boarded up terraced houses. Hundreds of them. I have no firsthand knowledge of whether that is a scene replicated across the country but it does seem criminal to me. How about spending some money actually regenerating the country and these areas. Creating communities. Levelling up LOL! You can put in place policies that ensure Brit Citz are top of the queue. As per my “Accommodation for Asylum Seekers” idea, the regeneration will create jobs and money will flow through supply chains. Communities need shops, schools, doctors etc creating jobs and a local economy. Incentivise bigger employers to build their facilities in the area creating more jobs. Yes it will cost but borrowing to fund infrastructure and long term investments should be what government does. They could launch specific regeneration bonds and generate huge positive PR. I actually agree. Personally I couldn't give two hoots how much it would cost. Surely, long term, it would balance out. We pay a ridiculous amount of money to temporary accommodation every year. I don't know how many houses are derelict. The figure for empty houses is 260k, the only measure for that is council tax. So, I'd imagine at least a 25% will be holiday homes etc. I don't know how it would work but compulsory purchase of derelict properties would be a great start. You “actually agree” makes it sound like you are surprised you agree
(Not aimed at you) isn’t it funny how if we all calm down and start sensibly discussing stuff (leaving the blue and red ties in the cupboard) that we discover we have more in common than we thought!"I'm not surprised in the slightest. It's still early
As it happens, I agree with you a fair amount | |||
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