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New Labour v Conservatives
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"So I saw this the other day and thought it was interesting. As of May 20th, the Tories have now been in power for longer than New Labour were. New Labour achieved the following in their time in office. ECONOMY Longest period of low inflation growth since 1960. Created an independent Bank of England. Wrote off debt for dozens of poor nations. Doubled overseas aid (a better life at home reduces the incentive to migrate to the UK). Created GiftAid to help charities. Bailed out the banks during 2008 financial crisis preventing a financial services armageddon* POVERTY 600,000 children lifted out of poverty. 1m pensioners lifted out of poverty. 26% increase in child benefit. Introduced winter fuel payments. Made improvements to 1m social homes. Introduced child Tax Credits. Created 3m child trust funds. Free bus travel for over 60s. HEALTH 85,000 more nurses. NHS waiting times down 82%. 98% of A&E patients seen in 4 hours. Free eye tests for over 60s. Heart disease deaths down 150,000. Cancer deaths down 50,000. Free breast screening for 50-70 year-olds. In-patient waiting lists down 500,000. Created NHS Direct. EMPLOYMENT Introduced the first minimum wage. Created 1.8m new jobs. Cut long term unemployment by 75%. Doubled the number of apprenticeships. Introduced the right to 24 days holiday. Introduced 2 weeks paternity leave. EDUCATION Doubled education funding for every pupil. 36,000 additional teachers. Added 274,000 teaching assistants. 2,200 Sure Start centres. Record literacy. Record numeracy. Free nursery places. Free fruit for 4-6 year-olds. SOCIAL / CULTURAL Scrapped Section 28. Introduced Civil Partnerships. Banned fox hunting. Free TV licenses to over 75s. Free entry to museums and art galleries Smoking ban. Olympics and the sporting legacy since destroyed by Tories. SECURITY Peace in Ireland (building on John Major's work, but still, completed by Labour). Added 14,000 extra police. Cut crime by 35%. Increased criminal justice (court) spending by 21%. MISCELLANEOUS Introduced devolution for Scotland and Wales. Banned fur farming. Brought the Human Rights Act into UK law. Created the cleanest rivers, beaches, water and air since the industrial revolution. BAD STUFF Took the UK into the illegal 2nd Iraq War. Sold off a chunk of UK gold reserves when prices were low. *Some will say something like “spent all the money” but conveniently ignore the requirement to act on the 2008 financial crisis to avoid economic meltdown. Anything else? What have the Tories achieved in the same time frame?" Doubled the national debt | |||
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"If labour were so good why did they lose the GE and remain as opposition for such a long period of time? Stock answers to follow: Tories have all the money and control everything The media put them there Racists voted them in Idiots voted them in The electorate don’t know what they’re voting for The electorate were fooled again " Do you deny the achievements on that list though? The question is what have the Tories achieved over the same period? Also why do you think Labour lost in 2010? It wasn’t a landslide victory by Tories as needed to form coalition with Lib Dems. | |||
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"So I saw this the other day and thought it was interesting. As of May 20th, the Tories have now been in power for longer than New Labour were. New Labour achieved the following in their time in office. ECONOMY Longest period of low inflation growth since 1960. Created an independent Bank of England. Wrote off debt for dozens of poor nations. Doubled overseas aid (a better life at home reduces the incentive to migrate to the UK). Created GiftAid to help charities. Bailed out the banks during 2008 financial crisis preventing a financial services armageddon* POVERTY 600,000 children lifted out of poverty. 1m pensioners lifted out of poverty. 26% increase in child benefit. Introduced winter fuel payments. Made improvements to 1m social homes. Introduced child Tax Credits. Created 3m child trust funds. Free bus travel for over 60s. HEALTH 85,000 more nurses. NHS waiting times down 82%. 98% of A&E patients seen in 4 hours. Free eye tests for over 60s. Heart disease deaths down 150,000. Cancer deaths down 50,000. Free breast screening for 50-70 year-olds. In-patient waiting lists down 500,000. Created NHS Direct. EMPLOYMENT Introduced the first minimum wage. Created 1.8m new jobs. Cut long term unemployment by 75%. Doubled the number of apprenticeships. Introduced the right to 24 days holiday. Introduced 2 weeks paternity leave. EDUCATION Doubled education funding for every pupil. 36,000 additional teachers. Added 274,000 teaching assistants. 2,200 Sure Start centres. Record literacy. Record numeracy. Free nursery places. Free fruit for 4-6 year-olds. SOCIAL / CULTURAL Scrapped Section 28. Introduced Civil Partnerships. Banned fox hunting. Free TV licenses to over 75s. Free entry to museums and art galleries Smoking ban. Olympics and the sporting legacy since destroyed by Tories. SECURITY Peace in Ireland (building on John Major's work, but still, completed by Labour). Added 14,000 extra police. Cut crime by 35%. Increased criminal justice (court) spending by 21%. MISCELLANEOUS Introduced devolution for Scotland and Wales. Banned fur farming. Brought the Human Rights Act into UK law. Created the cleanest rivers, beaches, water and air since the industrial revolution. BAD STUFF Took the UK into the illegal 2nd Iraq War. Sold off a chunk of UK gold reserves when prices were low. *Some will say something like “spent all the money” but conveniently ignore the requirement to act on the 2008 financial crisis to avoid economic meltdown. Anything else? What have the Tories achieved in the same time frame?" Gave us the 2 worst PMs in history | |||
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"So I saw this the other day and thought it was interesting. As of May 20th, the Tories have now been in power for longer than New Labour were. New Labour achieved the following in their time in office. ECONOMY Longest period of low inflation growth since 1960. Created an independent Bank of England. Wrote off debt for dozens of poor nations. Doubled overseas aid (a better life at home reduces the incentive to migrate to the UK). Created GiftAid to help charities. Bailed out the banks during 2008 financial crisis preventing a financial services armageddon* POVERTY 600,000 children lifted out of poverty. 1m pensioners lifted out of poverty. 26% increase in child benefit. Introduced winter fuel payments. Made improvements to 1m social homes. Introduced child Tax Credits. Created 3m child trust funds. Free bus travel for over 60s. HEALTH 85,000 more nurses. NHS waiting times down 82%. 98% of A&E patients seen in 4 hours. Free eye tests for over 60s. Heart disease deaths down 150,000. Cancer deaths down 50,000. Free breast screening for 50-70 year-olds. In-patient waiting lists down 500,000. Created NHS Direct. EMPLOYMENT Introduced the first minimum wage. Created 1.8m new jobs. Cut long term unemployment by 75%. Doubled the number of apprenticeships. Introduced the right to 24 days holiday. Introduced 2 weeks paternity leave. EDUCATION Doubled education funding for every pupil. 36,000 additional teachers. Added 274,000 teaching assistants. 2,200 Sure Start centres. Record literacy. Record numeracy. Free nursery places. Free fruit for 4-6 year-olds. SOCIAL / CULTURAL Scrapped Section 28. Introduced Civil Partnerships. Banned fox hunting. Free TV licenses to over 75s. Free entry to museums and art galleries Smoking ban. Olympics and the sporting legacy since destroyed by Tories. SECURITY Peace in Ireland (building on John Major's work, but still, completed by Labour). Added 14,000 extra police. Cut crime by 35%. Increased criminal justice (court) spending by 21%. MISCELLANEOUS Introduced devolution for Scotland and Wales. Banned fur farming. Brought the Human Rights Act into UK law. Created the cleanest rivers, beaches, water and air since the industrial revolution. BAD STUFF Took the UK into the illegal 2nd Iraq War. Sold off a chunk of UK gold reserves when prices were low. *Some will say something like “spent all the money” but conveniently ignore the requirement to act on the 2008 financial crisis to avoid economic meltdown. Anything else? What have the Tories achieved in the same time frame?" I'm largely a fan of New Labour but you definitely missed out some 'bad stuff' | |||
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"So I saw this the other day and thought it was interesting. As of May 20th, the Tories have now been in power for longer than New Labour were. New Labour achieved the following in their time in office. ECONOMY Longest period of low inflation growth since 1960. Created an independent Bank of England. Wrote off debt for dozens of poor nations. Doubled overseas aid (a better life at home reduces the incentive to migrate to the UK). Created GiftAid to help charities. Bailed out the banks during 2008 financial crisis preventing a financial services armageddon* POVERTY 600,000 children lifted out of poverty. 1m pensioners lifted out of poverty. 26% increase in child benefit. Introduced winter fuel payments. Made improvements to 1m social homes. Introduced child Tax Credits. Created 3m child trust funds. Free bus travel for over 60s. HEALTH 85,000 more nurses. NHS waiting times down 82%. 98% of A&E patients seen in 4 hours. Free eye tests for over 60s. Heart disease deaths down 150,000. Cancer deaths down 50,000. Free breast screening for 50-70 year-olds. In-patient waiting lists down 500,000. Created NHS Direct. EMPLOYMENT Introduced the first minimum wage. Created 1.8m new jobs. Cut long term unemployment by 75%. Doubled the number of apprenticeships. Introduced the right to 24 days holiday. Introduced 2 weeks paternity leave. EDUCATION Doubled education funding for every pupil. 36,000 additional teachers. Added 274,000 teaching assistants. 2,200 Sure Start centres. Record literacy. Record numeracy. Free nursery places. Free fruit for 4-6 year-olds. SOCIAL / CULTURAL Scrapped Section 28. Introduced Civil Partnerships. Banned fox hunting. Free TV licenses to over 75s. Free entry to museums and art galleries Smoking ban. Olympics and the sporting legacy since destroyed by Tories. SECURITY Peace in Ireland (building on John Major's work, but still, completed by Labour). Added 14,000 extra police. Cut crime by 35%. Increased criminal justice (court) spending by 21%. MISCELLANEOUS Introduced devolution for Scotland and Wales. Banned fur farming. Brought the Human Rights Act into UK law. Created the cleanest rivers, beaches, water and air since the industrial revolution. BAD STUFF Took the UK into the illegal 2nd Iraq War. Sold off a chunk of UK gold reserves when prices were low. *Some will say something like “spent all the money” but conveniently ignore the requirement to act on the 2008 financial crisis to avoid economic meltdown. Anything else? What have the Tories achieved in the same time frame? I'm largely a fan of New Labour but you definitely missed out some 'bad stuff'" Oh no doubt. That is why I said “anything else?” Please add to the list otherwise some folks on here will shout “unsubstantiated opinion where’s your evidence?” | |||
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"So I saw this the other day and thought it was interesting. As of May 20th, the Tories have now been in power for longer than New Labour were. New Labour achieved the following in their time in office. ECONOMY Longest period of low inflation growth since 1960. Created an independent Bank of England. Wrote off debt for dozens of poor nations. Doubled overseas aid (a better life at home reduces the incentive to migrate to the UK). Created GiftAid to help charities. Bailed out the banks during 2008 financial crisis preventing a financial services armageddon* POVERTY 600,000 children lifted out of poverty. 1m pensioners lifted out of poverty. 26% increase in child benefit. Introduced winter fuel payments. Made improvements to 1m social homes. Introduced child Tax Credits. Created 3m child trust funds. Free bus travel for over 60s. HEALTH 85,000 more nurses. NHS waiting times down 82%. 98% of A&E patients seen in 4 hours. Free eye tests for over 60s. Heart disease deaths down 150,000. Cancer deaths down 50,000. Free breast screening for 50-70 year-olds. In-patient waiting lists down 500,000. Created NHS Direct. EMPLOYMENT Introduced the first minimum wage. Created 1.8m new jobs. Cut long term unemployment by 75%. Doubled the number of apprenticeships. Introduced the right to 24 days holiday. Introduced 2 weeks paternity leave. EDUCATION Doubled education funding for every pupil. 36,000 additional teachers. Added 274,000 teaching assistants. 2,200 Sure Start centres. Record literacy. Record numeracy. Free nursery places. Free fruit for 4-6 year-olds. SOCIAL / CULTURAL Scrapped Section 28. Introduced Civil Partnerships. Banned fox hunting. Free TV licenses to over 75s. Free entry to museums and art galleries Smoking ban. Olympics and the sporting legacy since destroyed by Tories. SECURITY Peace in Ireland (building on John Major's work, but still, completed by Labour). Added 14,000 extra police. Cut crime by 35%. Increased criminal justice (court) spending by 21%. MISCELLANEOUS Introduced devolution for Scotland and Wales. Banned fur farming. Brought the Human Rights Act into UK law. Created the cleanest rivers, beaches, water and air since the industrial revolution. BAD STUFF Took the UK into the illegal 2nd Iraq War. Sold off a chunk of UK gold reserves when prices were low. *Some will say something like “spent all the money” but conveniently ignore the requirement to act on the 2008 financial crisis to avoid economic meltdown. Anything else? What have the Tories achieved in the same time frame? I'm largely a fan of New Labour but you definitely missed out some 'bad stuff' Oh no doubt. That is why I said “anything else?” Please add to the list otherwise some folks on here will shout “unsubstantiated opinion where’s your evidence?” " Private healthcare is one that springs to mind | |||
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"So I saw this the other day and thought it was interesting. As of May 20th, the Tories have now been in power for longer than New Labour were. New Labour achieved the following in their time in office. ECONOMY Longest period of low inflation growth since 1960. Created an independent Bank of England. Wrote off debt for dozens of poor nations. Doubled overseas aid (a better life at home reduces the incentive to migrate to the UK). Created GiftAid to help charities. Bailed out the banks during 2008 financial crisis preventing a financial services armageddon* POVERTY 600,000 children lifted out of poverty. 1m pensioners lifted out of poverty. 26% increase in child benefit. Introduced winter fuel payments. Made improvements to 1m social homes. Introduced child Tax Credits. Created 3m child trust funds. Free bus travel for over 60s. HEALTH 85,000 more nurses. NHS waiting times down 82%. 98% of A&E patients seen in 4 hours. Free eye tests for over 60s. Heart disease deaths down 150,000. Cancer deaths down 50,000. Free breast screening for 50-70 year-olds. In-patient waiting lists down 500,000. Created NHS Direct. EMPLOYMENT Introduced the first minimum wage. Created 1.8m new jobs. Cut long term unemployment by 75%. Doubled the number of apprenticeships. Introduced the right to 24 days holiday. Introduced 2 weeks paternity leave. EDUCATION Doubled education funding for every pupil. 36,000 additional teachers. Added 274,000 teaching assistants. 2,200 Sure Start centres. Record literacy. Record numeracy. Free nursery places. Free fruit for 4-6 year-olds. SOCIAL / CULTURAL Scrapped Section 28. Introduced Civil Partnerships. Banned fox hunting. Free TV licenses to over 75s. Free entry to museums and art galleries Smoking ban. Olympics and the sporting legacy since destroyed by Tories. SECURITY Peace in Ireland (building on John Major's work, but still, completed by Labour). Added 14,000 extra police. Cut crime by 35%. Increased criminal justice (court) spending by 21%. MISCELLANEOUS Introduced devolution for Scotland and Wales. Banned fur farming. Brought the Human Rights Act into UK law. Created the cleanest rivers, beaches, water and air since the industrial revolution. BAD STUFF Took the UK into the illegal 2nd Iraq War. Sold off a chunk of UK gold reserves when prices were low. *Some will say something like “spent all the money” but conveniently ignore the requirement to act on the 2008 financial crisis to avoid economic meltdown. Anything else? What have the Tories achieved in the same time frame? I'm largely a fan of New Labour but you definitely missed out some 'bad stuff' Oh no doubt. That is why I said “anything else?” Please add to the list otherwise some folks on here will shout “unsubstantiated opinion where’s your evidence?” Private healthcare is one that springs to mind" Tell us more? | |||
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"So I saw this the other day and thought it was interesting. As of May 20th, the Tories have now been in power for longer than New Labour were. New Labour achieved the following in their time in office. ECONOMY Longest period of low inflation growth since 1960. Created an independent Bank of England. Wrote off debt for dozens of poor nations. Doubled overseas aid (a better life at home reduces the incentive to migrate to the UK). Created GiftAid to help charities. Bailed out the banks during 2008 financial crisis preventing a financial services armageddon* POVERTY 600,000 children lifted out of poverty. 1m pensioners lifted out of poverty. 26% increase in child benefit. Introduced winter fuel payments. Made improvements to 1m social homes. Introduced child Tax Credits. Created 3m child trust funds. Free bus travel for over 60s. HEALTH 85,000 more nurses. NHS waiting times down 82%. 98% of A&E patients seen in 4 hours. Free eye tests for over 60s. Heart disease deaths down 150,000. Cancer deaths down 50,000. Free breast screening for 50-70 year-olds. In-patient waiting lists down 500,000. Created NHS Direct. EMPLOYMENT Introduced the first minimum wage. Created 1.8m new jobs. Cut long term unemployment by 75%. Doubled the number of apprenticeships. Introduced the right to 24 days holiday. Introduced 2 weeks paternity leave. EDUCATION Doubled education funding for every pupil. 36,000 additional teachers. Added 274,000 teaching assistants. 2,200 Sure Start centres. Record literacy. Record numeracy. Free nursery places. Free fruit for 4-6 year-olds. SOCIAL / CULTURAL Scrapped Section 28. Introduced Civil Partnerships. Banned fox hunting. Free TV licenses to over 75s. Free entry to museums and art galleries Smoking ban. Olympics and the sporting legacy since destroyed by Tories. SECURITY Peace in Ireland (building on John Major's work, but still, completed by Labour). Added 14,000 extra police. Cut crime by 35%. Increased criminal justice (court) spending by 21%. MISCELLANEOUS Introduced devolution for Scotland and Wales. Banned fur farming. Brought the Human Rights Act into UK law. Created the cleanest rivers, beaches, water and air since the industrial revolution. BAD STUFF Took the UK into the illegal 2nd Iraq War. Sold off a chunk of UK gold reserves when prices were low. *Some will say something like “spent all the money” but conveniently ignore the requirement to act on the 2008 financial crisis to avoid economic meltdown. Anything else? What have the Tories achieved in the same time frame? I'm largely a fan of New Labour but you definitely missed out some 'bad stuff' Oh no doubt. That is why I said “anything else?” Please add to the list otherwise some folks on here will shout “unsubstantiated opinion where’s your evidence?” Private healthcare is one that springs to mind Tell us more?" https://www.theguardian.com/society/2006/feb/16/health.politics I know you already know this | |||
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"So I saw this the other day and thought it was interesting. As of May 20th, the Tories have now been in power for longer than New Labour were. New Labour achieved the following in their time in office. ECONOMY Longest period of low inflation growth since 1960. Created an independent Bank of England. Wrote off debt for dozens of poor nations. Doubled overseas aid (a better life at home reduces the incentive to migrate to the UK). Created GiftAid to help charities. Bailed out the banks during 2008 financial crisis preventing a financial services armageddon* POVERTY 600,000 children lifted out of poverty. 1m pensioners lifted out of poverty. 26% increase in child benefit. Introduced winter fuel payments. Made improvements to 1m social homes. Introduced child Tax Credits. Created 3m child trust funds. Free bus travel for over 60s. HEALTH 85,000 more nurses. NHS waiting times down 82%. 98% of A&E patients seen in 4 hours. Free eye tests for over 60s. Heart disease deaths down 150,000. Cancer deaths down 50,000. Free breast screening for 50-70 year-olds. In-patient waiting lists down 500,000. Created NHS Direct. EMPLOYMENT Introduced the first minimum wage. Created 1.8m new jobs. Cut long term unemployment by 75%. Doubled the number of apprenticeships. Introduced the right to 24 days holiday. Introduced 2 weeks paternity leave. EDUCATION Doubled education funding for every pupil. 36,000 additional teachers. Added 274,000 teaching assistants. 2,200 Sure Start centres. Record literacy. Record numeracy. Free nursery places. Free fruit for 4-6 year-olds. SOCIAL / CULTURAL Scrapped Section 28. Introduced Civil Partnerships. Banned fox hunting. Free TV licenses to over 75s. Free entry to museums and art galleries Smoking ban. Olympics and the sporting legacy since destroyed by Tories. SECURITY Peace in Ireland (building on John Major's work, but still, completed by Labour). Added 14,000 extra police. Cut crime by 35%. Increased criminal justice (court) spending by 21%. MISCELLANEOUS Introduced devolution for Scotland and Wales. Banned fur farming. Brought the Human Rights Act into UK law. Created the cleanest rivers, beaches, water and air since the industrial revolution. BAD STUFF Took the UK into the illegal 2nd Iraq War. Sold off a chunk of UK gold reserves when prices were low. *Some will say something like “spent all the money” but conveniently ignore the requirement to act on the 2008 financial crisis to avoid economic meltdown. Anything else? What have the Tories achieved in the same time frame?" The worst inflation for 40 years | |||
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"Sold off all the gold reserves, spent money that we didn't have, had a massive deficit bigger than we've ever seen (pre COVID) and left a post-it note saying there's no money left. " BINGO we have a winner (read the asterisk in OP) | |||
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"Sold off all the gold reserves, spent money that we didn't have, had a massive deficit bigger than we've ever seen (pre COVID) and left a post-it note saying there's no money left. " But what have the tories achieved in the last 13 years  | |||
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"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not?" Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! | |||
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"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings!" I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. | |||
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"Sold off all the gold reserves, spent money that we didn't have, had a massive deficit bigger than we've ever seen (pre COVID) and left a post-it note saying there's no money left. But what have the tories achieved in the last 13 years "Lots of them, and their pals have gotten very rich, while getting voted in again and again. That's a pretty big achievement. | |||
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"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad." It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. | |||
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"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added." That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. | |||
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"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad." Point of order... I saw a list of achievements by New Labour and thought it was both impressive and interesting. I then asked what the Tories have achieved over the same length of time. If people want to view that as a “gotcha” then that is on them. As a centrist with no particular loyalty to any party, what I actually want is good strong effective government that delivers. So far, based on this thread, it appears New Labour had a lot to shout about and the Tories have very little. Is that really the case? Again I will ask the question - what have the Tories achieved over 13 years? | |||
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"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. Point of order... I saw a list of achievements by New Labour and thought it was both impressive and interesting. I then asked what the Tories have achieved over the same length of time. If people want to view that as a “gotcha” then that is on them. As a centrist with no particular loyalty to any party, what I actually want is good strong effective government that delivers. So far, based on this thread, it appears New Labour had a lot to shout about and the Tories have very little. Is that really the case? Again I will ask the question - what have the Tories achieved over 13 years? " Are you saying you didn't research any of those points in the list before publishing? See my point on 'Tory improvements'. | |||
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"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party." I may be wrong but I suspect you couldn’t actually “go through the list and add Tory improvements” to many of them. I suspect some have been undermined or made worse. I would be surprised if nothing on the list has been improved upon (you gave example of overseas aid but that may have gone up but it has now gone down lower so can’t see how that is an achievement) but interesting to know? | |||
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"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. Point of order... I saw a list of achievements by New Labour and thought it was both impressive and interesting. I then asked what the Tories have achieved over the same length of time. If people want to view that as a “gotcha” then that is on them. As a centrist with no particular loyalty to any party, what I actually want is good strong effective government that delivers. So far, based on this thread, it appears New Labour had a lot to shout about and the Tories have very little. Is that really the case? Again I will ask the question - what have the Tories achieved over 13 years? Are you saying you didn't research any of those points in the list before publishing? See my point on 'Tory improvements'." See my counter point on Tory improvements. I didn’t research it no (you are starting to sound like another poster) as I had little need to doubt the source where I saw it. If any of the things on that list are untrue then happy for people to correct it as not my list! | |||
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"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. I may be wrong but I suspect you couldn’t actually “go through the list and add Tory improvements” to many of them. I suspect some have been undermined or made worse. I would be surprised if nothing on the list has been improved upon (you gave example of overseas aid but that may have gone up but it has now gone down lower so can’t see how that is an achievement) but interesting to know?" After retracting overseas aid was still higher by around 30% in 2021 than it was in 2010 but of course that's not an achievement. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party." Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. Point of order... I saw a list of achievements by New Labour and thought it was both impressive and interesting. I then asked what the Tories have achieved over the same length of time. If people want to view that as a “gotcha” then that is on them. As a centrist with no particular loyalty to any party, what I actually want is good strong effective government that delivers. So far, based on this thread, it appears New Labour had a lot to shout about and the Tories have very little. Is that really the case? Again I will ask the question - what have the Tories achieved over 13 years? Are you saying you didn't research any of those points in the list before publishing? See my point on 'Tory improvements'. See my counter point on Tory improvements. I didn’t research it no (you are starting to sound like another poster) as I had little need to doubt the source where I saw it. If any of the things on that list are untrue then happy for people to correct it as not my list!" No, I've said I took the list at face value, ergo, I'm not disputing it. I do dispute that these are 'Labour acheivements' rather than governement governing though. What was the source? I'm almost certain it was a 'left leaning source'. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. " One mandate victory - getting Brexit done. Corbyn was a nob on this point being arrogant and wanting to overturn the referendum. So it meant Hobson's choice. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. I may be wrong but I suspect you couldn’t actually “go through the list and add Tory improvements” to many of them. I suspect some have been undermined or made worse. I would be surprised if nothing on the list has been improved upon (you gave example of overseas aid but that may have gone up but it has now gone down lower so can’t see how that is an achievement) but interesting to know? After retracting overseas aid was still higher by around 30% in 2021 than it was in 2010 but of course that's not an achievement." I would say if there is a net increase (taking into account inflation) then that is an achievement. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. I may be wrong but I suspect you couldn’t actually “go through the list and add Tory improvements” to many of them. I suspect some have been undermined or made worse. I would be surprised if nothing on the list has been improved upon (you gave example of overseas aid but that may have gone up but it has now gone down lower so can’t see how that is an achievement) but interesting to know? After retracting overseas aid was still higher by around 30% in 2021 than it was in 2010 but of course that's not an achievement. I would say if there is a net increase (taking into account inflation) then that is an achievement." I mean ODA is calculated as a % of GNI but you know this. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. " Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement." Correct, police numbers are lower now than they were in 2010 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement. Correct, police numbers are lower now than they were in 2010" Correct. It was Cameron that decreased the number of police officers. We're just shy of the numbers of 2010. So whilst not a Tory achievement in total, you could say a post-cameron achievement. | |||
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"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement." Nothing on the points ref the turbulent terms due to Brexit and Covid? Would you expect change on top of the largest change this country has seen in years, or a stabilisation? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement. Nothing on the points ref the turbulent terms due to Brexit and Covid? Would you expect change on top of the largest change this country has seen in years, or a stabilisation? " They fucked up both Covid and Brexit | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement. Nothing on the points ref the turbulent terms due to Brexit and Covid? Would you expect change on top of the largest change this country has seen in years, or a stabilisation? They fucked up both Covid and Brexit "How did they, fuck up brexit? Specific examples would be good. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement. Nothing on the points ref the turbulent terms due to Brexit and Covid? Would you expect change on top of the largest change this country has seen in years, or a stabilisation? They fucked up both Covid and Brexit
How did they, fuck up brexit? Specific examples would be good. "Brexit has failed , Nigel Farage Worst inflation for 40 years Worst living standard since records began Millions on strike 3 prime ministers in 2 years Are you going to blame Brexit or the government? Or both ? Btw, you can’t blame Covid and the war unless you also acknowledge the bankers crash in 2008 | |||
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"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement. Nothing on the points ref the turbulent terms due to Brexit and Covid? Would you expect change on top of the largest change this country has seen in years, or a stabilisation? They fucked up both Covid and Brexit "Brexit went according to their plan. It was never meant to be good for the UK or British people. COVID though, sure they fucked that up. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement. Nothing on the points ref the turbulent terms due to Brexit and Covid? Would you expect change on top of the largest change this country has seen in years, or a stabilisation? They fucked up both Covid and Brexit
How did they, fuck up brexit? Specific examples would be good.
Brexit has failed , Nigel Farage
Worst inflation for 40 years
Worst living standard since records began
Millions on strike
3 prime ministers in 2 years
Are you going to blame Brexit or the government? Or both ?
Btw, you can’t blame Covid and the war unless you also acknowledge the bankers crash in 2008
"These were the aims of Brexit. To enable disaster capitalism, to allow billionaires to continue to avoid paying taxes, to remove workers rights, safety standards, environmental protections. Brexit has and is achieving all of this. Has to go down as a success when measured against the aims. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement. Nothing on the points ref the turbulent terms due to Brexit and Covid? Would you expect change on top of the largest change this country has seen in years, or a stabilisation? They fucked up both Covid and Brexit
How did they, fuck up brexit? Specific examples would be good.
Brexit has failed , Nigel Farage
Worst inflation for 40 years
Worst living standard since records began
Millions on strike
3 prime ministers in 2 years
Are you going to blame Brexit or the government? Or both ?
Btw, you can’t blame Covid and the war unless you also acknowledge the bankers crash in 2008
"You do know Brexit was the vote on whether to leave the EU and we did? Have you got specific items of Brexit that were fucked up as you said? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement. Nothing on the points ref the turbulent terms due to Brexit and Covid? Would you expect change on top of the largest change this country has seen in years, or a stabilisation? They fucked up both Covid and Brexit
How did they, fuck up brexit? Specific examples would be good.
Brexit has failed , Nigel Farage
Worst inflation for 40 years
Worst living standard since records began
Millions on strike
3 prime ministers in 2 years
Are you going to blame Brexit or the government? Or both ?
Btw, you can’t blame Covid and the war unless you also acknowledge the bankers crash in 2008
These were the aims of Brexit. To enable disaster capitalism, to allow billionaires to continue to avoid paying taxes, to remove workers rights, safety standards, environmental protections.
Brexit has and is achieving all of this. Has to go down as a success when measured against the aims. "Fair point, | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement. Nothing on the points ref the turbulent terms due to Brexit and Covid? Would you expect change on top of the largest change this country has seen in years, or a stabilisation? They fucked up both Covid and Brexit
How did they, fuck up brexit? Specific examples would be good.
Brexit has failed , Nigel Farage
Worst inflation for 40 years
Worst living standard since records began
Millions on strike
3 prime ministers in 2 years
Are you going to blame Brexit or the government? Or both ?
Btw, you can’t blame Covid and the war unless you also acknowledge the bankers crash in 2008
These were the aims of Brexit. To enable disaster capitalism, to allow billionaires to continue to avoid paying taxes, to remove workers rights, safety standards, environmental protections.
Brexit has and is achieving all of this. Has to go down as a success when measured against the aims. "Are you aware that the public voted for brexit? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement. Nothing on the points ref the turbulent terms due to Brexit and Covid? Would you expect change on top of the largest change this country has seen in years, or a stabilisation? They fucked up both Covid and Brexit
How did they, fuck up brexit? Specific examples would be good.
Brexit has failed , Nigel Farage
Worst inflation for 40 years
Worst living standard since records began
Millions on strike
3 prime ministers in 2 years
Are you going to blame Brexit or the government? Or both ?
Btw, you can’t blame Covid and the war unless you also acknowledge the bankers crash in 2008
These were the aims of Brexit. To enable disaster capitalism, to allow billionaires to continue to avoid paying taxes, to remove workers rights, safety standards, environmental protections.
Brexit has and is achieving all of this. Has to go down as a success when measured against the aims.
Are you aware that the public voted for brexit? "I am. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement. Nothing on the points ref the turbulent terms due to Brexit and Covid? Would you expect change on top of the largest change this country has seen in years, or a stabilisation? They fucked up both Covid and Brexit
How did they, fuck up brexit? Specific examples would be good.
Brexit has failed , Nigel Farage
Worst inflation for 40 years
Worst living standard since records began
Millions on strike
3 prime ministers in 2 years
Are you going to blame Brexit or the government? Or both ?
Btw, you can’t blame Covid and the war unless you also acknowledge the bankers crash in 2008
These were the aims of Brexit. To enable disaster capitalism, to allow billionaires to continue to avoid paying taxes, to remove workers rights, safety standards, environmental protections.
Brexit has and is achieving all of this. Has to go down as a success when measured against the aims.
Are you aware that the public voted for brexit?
I am. "So going back to your vitriol, how did the public choose to vote for the things you said? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement. Nothing on the points ref the turbulent terms due to Brexit and Covid? Would you expect change on top of the largest change this country has seen in years, or a stabilisation? They fucked up both Covid and Brexit
How did they, fuck up brexit? Specific examples would be good.
Brexit has failed , Nigel Farage
Worst inflation for 40 years
Worst living standard since records began
Millions on strike
3 prime ministers in 2 years
Are you going to blame Brexit or the government? Or both ?
Btw, you can’t blame Covid and the war unless you also acknowledge the bankers crash in 2008
You do know Brexit was the vote on whether to leave the EU and we did? Have you got specific items of Brexit that were fucked up as you said? "Ah, this is what we are left with. Brexit hasn’t been a failure because we have left the EU, the consequences are irrelevant ? Ok, then Brexit has been an amazing success, we have left the EU | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement. Nothing on the points ref the turbulent terms due to Brexit and Covid? Would you expect change on top of the largest change this country has seen in years, or a stabilisation? They fucked up both Covid and Brexit
How did they, fuck up brexit? Specific examples would be good.
Brexit has failed , Nigel Farage
Worst inflation for 40 years
Worst living standard since records began
Millions on strike
3 prime ministers in 2 years
Are you going to blame Brexit or the government? Or both ?
Btw, you can’t blame Covid and the war unless you also acknowledge the bankers crash in 2008
These were the aims of Brexit. To enable disaster capitalism, to allow billionaires to continue to avoid paying taxes, to remove workers rights, safety standards, environmental protections.
Brexit has and is achieving all of this. Has to go down as a success when measured against the aims.
Are you aware that the public voted for brexit? "Yes, they also voted for Alexander to be PM, where is he now? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement. Nothing on the points ref the turbulent terms due to Brexit and Covid? Would you expect change on top of the largest change this country has seen in years, or a stabilisation? They fucked up both Covid and Brexit
How did they, fuck up brexit? Specific examples would be good.
Brexit has failed , Nigel Farage
Worst inflation for 40 years
Worst living standard since records began
Millions on strike
3 prime ministers in 2 years
Are you going to blame Brexit or the government? Or both ?
Btw, you can’t blame Covid and the war unless you also acknowledge the bankers crash in 2008
You do know Brexit was the vote on whether to leave the EU and we did? Have you got specific items of Brexit that were fucked up as you said?
Ah, this is what we are left with. Brexit hasn’t been a failure because we have left the EU, the consequences are irrelevant ? Ok, then Brexit has been an amazing success, we have left the EU "Still nothing? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement. Nothing on the points ref the turbulent terms due to Brexit and Covid? Would you expect change on top of the largest change this country has seen in years, or a stabilisation? They fucked up both Covid and Brexit
How did they, fuck up brexit? Specific examples would be good.
Brexit has failed , Nigel Farage
Worst inflation for 40 years
Worst living standard since records began
Millions on strike
3 prime ministers in 2 years
Are you going to blame Brexit or the government? Or both ?
Btw, you can’t blame Covid and the war unless you also acknowledge the bankers crash in 2008
You do know Brexit was the vote on whether to leave the EU and we did? Have you got specific items of Brexit that were fucked up as you said?
Ah, this is what we are left with. Brexit hasn’t been a failure because we have left the EU, the consequences are irrelevant ? Ok, then Brexit has been an amazing success, we have left the EU
Still nothing?"Iam agreeing with you, we have left the EU, mission accomplished, i am just surprised that Alexander (the guy who got Brexit done) isn’t still the PM after doing such a great job | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement. Nothing on the points ref the turbulent terms due to Brexit and Covid? Would you expect change on top of the largest change this country has seen in years, or a stabilisation? They fucked up both Covid and Brexit
How did they, fuck up brexit? Specific examples would be good.
Brexit has failed , Nigel Farage
Worst inflation for 40 years
Worst living standard since records began
Millions on strike
3 prime ministers in 2 years
Are you going to blame Brexit or the government? Or both ?
Btw, you can’t blame Covid and the war unless you also acknowledge the bankers crash in 2008
These were the aims of Brexit. To enable disaster capitalism, to allow billionaires to continue to avoid paying taxes, to remove workers rights, safety standards, environmental protections.
Brexit has and is achieving all of this. Has to go down as a success when measured against the aims.
Are you aware that the public voted for brexit?
I am.
So going back to your vitriol, how did the public choose to vote for the things you said?"Why is a description of the purposes of brexit "vitriol"? I voted against brexit. So I would only be speculating why people voted for it. You could ask those people who did maybe. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement. Nothing on the points ref the turbulent terms due to Brexit and Covid? Would you expect change on top of the largest change this country has seen in years, or a stabilisation? They fucked up both Covid and Brexit
How did they, fuck up brexit? Specific examples would be good.
Brexit has failed , Nigel Farage
Worst inflation for 40 years
Worst living standard since records began
Millions on strike
3 prime ministers in 2 years
Are you going to blame Brexit or the government? Or both ?
Btw, you can’t blame Covid and the war unless you also acknowledge the bankers crash in 2008
You do know Brexit was the vote on whether to leave the EU and we did? Have you got specific items of Brexit that were fucked up as you said?
Ah, this is what we are left with. Brexit hasn’t been a failure because we have left the EU, the consequences are irrelevant ? Ok, then Brexit has been an amazing success, we have left the EU
Still nothing?
Iam agreeing with you, we have left the EU, mission accomplished, i am just surprised that Alexander (the guy who got Brexit done) isn’t still the PM after doing such a great job "Why are you surprised? He served his purpose and has gone past his use by date, like all politicians will. He has made many mistakes but he followed through on his promise to hit the departure date of leaving the EU. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"While I hate the Tories with a passion I wouldnt want a Labour Goverment either. I think its time for another party that are not Tories or Labour to Govern." Lib dems Greens Reform A few options there | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement. Nothing on the points ref the turbulent terms due to Brexit and Covid? Would you expect change on top of the largest change this country has seen in years, or a stabilisation? They fucked up both Covid and Brexit
How did they, fuck up brexit? Specific examples would be good.
Brexit has failed , Nigel Farage
Worst inflation for 40 years
Worst living standard since records began
Millions on strike
3 prime ministers in 2 years
Are you going to blame Brexit or the government? Or both ?
Btw, you can’t blame Covid and the war unless you also acknowledge the bankers crash in 2008
You do know Brexit was the vote on whether to leave the EU and we did? Have you got specific items of Brexit that were fucked up as you said?
Ah, this is what we are left with. Brexit hasn’t been a failure because we have left the EU, the consequences are irrelevant ? Ok, then Brexit has been an amazing success, we have left the EU
Still nothing?
Iam agreeing with you, we have left the EU, mission accomplished, i am just surprised that Alexander (the guy who got Brexit done) isn’t still the PM after doing such a great job
Why are you surprised? He served his purpose and has gone past his use by date, like all politicians will.
He has made many mistakes but he followed through on his promise to hit the departure date of leaving the EU. "Because he won an 80 seat majority and gone Brexit done? I thought that would keep him in his job? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement. Nothing on the points ref the turbulent terms due to Brexit and Covid? Would you expect change on top of the largest change this country has seen in years, or a stabilisation? They fucked up both Covid and Brexit
How did they, fuck up brexit? Specific examples would be good.
Brexit has failed , Nigel Farage
Worst inflation for 40 years
Worst living standard since records began
Millions on strike
3 prime ministers in 2 years
Are you going to blame Brexit or the government? Or both ?
Btw, you can’t blame Covid and the war unless you also acknowledge the bankers crash in 2008
These were the aims of Brexit. To enable disaster capitalism, to allow billionaires to continue to avoid paying taxes, to remove workers rights, safety standards, environmental protections.
Brexit has and is achieving all of this. Has to go down as a success when measured against the aims.
Are you aware that the public voted for brexit?
I am.
So going back to your vitriol, how did the public choose to vote for the things you said?
Why is a description of the purposes of brexit "vitriol"?
I voted against brexit. So I would only be speculating why people voted for it. You could ask those people who did maybe."The below is not correct it is your strange opinion that you trot out frequently. "These were the aims of Brexit. To enable disaster capitalism, to allow billionaires to continue to avoid paying taxes, to remove workers rights, safety standards, environmental protections" The aim of brexit was to leave the EU as per the instruction of the people | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement. Nothing on the points ref the turbulent terms due to Brexit and Covid? Would you expect change on top of the largest change this country has seen in years, or a stabilisation? They fucked up both Covid and Brexit
How did they, fuck up brexit? Specific examples would be good.
Brexit has failed , Nigel Farage
Worst inflation for 40 years
Worst living standard since records began
Millions on strike
3 prime ministers in 2 years
Are you going to blame Brexit or the government? Or both ?
Btw, you can’t blame Covid and the war unless you also acknowledge the bankers crash in 2008
You do know Brexit was the vote on whether to leave the EU and we did? Have you got specific items of Brexit that were fucked up as you said?
Ah, this is what we are left with. Brexit hasn’t been a failure because we have left the EU, the consequences are irrelevant ? Ok, then Brexit has been an amazing success, we have left the EU
Still nothing?
Iam agreeing with you, we have left the EU, mission accomplished, i am just surprised that Alexander (the guy who got Brexit done) isn’t still the PM after doing such a great job
Why are you surprised? He served his purpose and has gone past his use by date, like all politicians will.
He has made many mistakes but he followed through on his promise to hit the departure date of leaving the EU.
Because he won an 80 seat majority and gone Brexit done? I thought that would keep him in his job? "He did because labour voters wanted to leave the EU, enough to vote for a party they do not believe in. Once he completed the task, he was no longer required | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So I saw this the other day and thought it was interesting. As of May 20th, the Tories have now been in power for longer than New Labour were. New Labour achieved the following in their time in office. ECONOMY Longest period of low inflation growth since 1960. Created an independent Bank of England. Wrote off debt for dozens of poor nations. Doubled overseas aid (a better life at home reduces the incentive to migrate to the UK). Created GiftAid to help charities. Bailed out the banks during 2008 financial crisis preventing a financial services armageddon* POVERTY 600,000 children lifted out of poverty. 1m pensioners lifted out of poverty. 26% increase in child benefit. Introduced winter fuel payments. Made improvements to 1m social homes. Introduced child Tax Credits. Created 3m child trust funds. Free bus travel for over 60s. HEALTH 85,000 more nurses. NHS waiting times down 82%. 98% of A&E patients seen in 4 hours. Free eye tests for over 60s. Heart disease deaths down 150,000. Cancer deaths down 50,000. Free breast screening for 50-70 year-olds. In-patient waiting lists down 500,000. Created NHS Direct. EMPLOYMENT Introduced the first minimum wage. Created 1.8m new jobs. Cut long term unemployment by 75%. Doubled the number of apprenticeships. Introduced the right to 24 days holiday. Introduced 2 weeks paternity leave. EDUCATION Doubled education funding for every pupil. 36,000 additional teachers. Added 274,000 teaching assistants. 2,200 Sure Start centres. Record literacy. Record numeracy. Free nursery places. Free fruit for 4-6 year-olds. SOCIAL / CULTURAL Scrapped Section 28. Introduced Civil Partnerships. Banned fox hunting. Free TV licenses to over 75s. Free entry to museums and art galleries Smoking ban. Olympics and the sporting legacy since destroyed by Tories. SECURITY Peace in Ireland (building on John Major's work, but still, completed by Labour). Added 14,000 extra police. Cut crime by 35%. Increased criminal justice (court) spending by 21%. MISCELLANEOUS Introduced devolution for Scotland and Wales. Banned fur farming. Brought the Human Rights Act into UK law. Created the cleanest rivers, beaches, water and air since the industrial revolution. BAD STUFF Took the UK into the illegal 2nd Iraq War. Sold off a chunk of UK gold reserves when prices were low. *Some will say something like “spent all the money” but conveniently ignore the requirement to act on the 2008 financial crisis to avoid economic meltdown. Anything else? What have the Tories achieved in the same time frame?" I saw this too the other day and was somewhat taken aback by the list of achievements. There were down sides too, there always will be because it is impossible not to have down sides. The last thirteen years have, by comparison, seen only rewards for lying, cheating and corruption and at every step, ordinary people have been promised everything to comply and been given nothing in return because the charlatans at the top know how to keep ordinary folk distracted. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not?" This is a bit like the Police numbers. Removed then reintroduced after finding it was a disaster is not really an achievement. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"While I hate the Tories with a passion I wouldnt want a Labour Goverment either. I think its time for another party that are not Tories or Labour to Govern." Were the above listed achievements of the Blair/Brown era not good enough? I have thought about voting Lib Dem’s but really, I think they are just too lightweight and lack politicians (and potential candidates) who possess gravitas and depth. I can’t see them being able to rustle up a cabinet of competent enough people to run the country. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? This is a bit like the Police numbers. Removed then reintroduced after finding it was a disaster is not really an achievement." Early years childcare?? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement. Nothing on the points ref the turbulent terms due to Brexit and Covid? Would you expect change on top of the largest change this country has seen in years, or a stabilisation? They fucked up both Covid and Brexit
How did they, fuck up brexit? Specific examples would be good.
Brexit has failed , Nigel Farage
Worst inflation for 40 years
Worst living standard since records began
Millions on strike
3 prime ministers in 2 years
Are you going to blame Brexit or the government? Or both ?
Btw, you can’t blame Covid and the war unless you also acknowledge the bankers crash in 2008
You do know Brexit was the vote on whether to leave the EU and we did? Have you got specific items of Brexit that were fucked up as you said?
Ah, this is what we are left with. Brexit hasn’t been a failure because we have left the EU, the consequences are irrelevant ? Ok, then Brexit has been an amazing success, we have left the EU
Still nothing?
Iam agreeing with you, we have left the EU, mission accomplished, i am just surprised that Alexander (the guy who got Brexit done) isn’t still the PM after doing such a great job
Why are you surprised? He served his purpose and has gone past his use by date, like all politicians will.
He has made many mistakes but he followed through on his promise to hit the departure date of leaving the EU.
Because he won an 80 seat majority and gone Brexit done? I thought that would keep him in his job?
He did because labour voters wanted to leave the EU, enough to vote for a party they do not believe in. Once he completed the task, he was no longer required"If the only aim of Brexit was to leave the EU and the consequences were irrelevant then why did it take the tories so long to complete ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement. Nothing on the points ref the turbulent terms due to Brexit and Covid? Would you expect change on top of the largest change this country has seen in years, or a stabilisation? They fucked up both Covid and Brexit
How did they, fuck up brexit? Specific examples would be good.
Brexit has failed , Nigel Farage
Worst inflation for 40 years
Worst living standard since records began
Millions on strike
3 prime ministers in 2 years
Are you going to blame Brexit or the government? Or both ?
Btw, you can’t blame Covid and the war unless you also acknowledge the bankers crash in 2008
You do know Brexit was the vote on whether to leave the EU and we did? Have you got specific items of Brexit that were fucked up as you said?
Ah, this is what we are left with. Brexit hasn’t been a failure because we have left the EU, the consequences are irrelevant ? Ok, then Brexit has been an amazing success, we have left the EU
Still nothing?
Iam agreeing with you, we have left the EU, mission accomplished, i am just surprised that Alexander (the guy who got Brexit done) isn’t still the PM after doing such a great job
Why are you surprised? He served his purpose and has gone past his use by date, like all politicians will.
He has made many mistakes but he followed through on his promise to hit the departure date of leaving the EU.
Because he won an 80 seat majority and gone Brexit done? I thought that would keep him in his job?
He did because labour voters wanted to leave the EU, enough to vote for a party they do not believe in. Once he completed the task, he was no longer required
If the only aim of Brexit was to leave the EU and the consequences were irrelevant then why did it take the tories so long to complete ? "I did not say the consequences were irrelevant, you have added that in why? The vote was clear in or out, once the people had decided what their preference was the job of the government was to enact that decision. This meant moving away from the bloc, impact assessments, rewriting laws, renegotiating trade everything that underpinned our day to day, that is why it took so long and so much effort. Only a fool would expect a perfect break with no problems to be fixed for year to come as the complexity is great. You know all this though, because I did ask you if you knew what Brexit actually was and you said yes, strangely | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement. Nothing on the points ref the turbulent terms due to Brexit and Covid? Would you expect change on top of the largest change this country has seen in years, or a stabilisation? They fucked up both Covid and Brexit
How did they, fuck up brexit? Specific examples would be good.
Brexit has failed , Nigel Farage
Worst inflation for 40 years
Worst living standard since records began
Millions on strike
3 prime ministers in 2 years
Are you going to blame Brexit or the government? Or both ?
Btw, you can’t blame Covid and the war unless you also acknowledge the bankers crash in 2008
You do know Brexit was the vote on whether to leave the EU and we did? Have you got specific items of Brexit that were fucked up as you said?
Ah, this is what we are left with. Brexit hasn’t been a failure because we have left the EU, the consequences are irrelevant ? Ok, then Brexit has been an amazing success, we have left the EU
Still nothing?
Iam agreeing with you, we have left the EU, mission accomplished, i am just surprised that Alexander (the guy who got Brexit done) isn’t still the PM after doing such a great job
Why are you surprised? He served his purpose and has gone past his use by date, like all politicians will.
He has made many mistakes but he followed through on his promise to hit the departure date of leaving the EU.
Because he won an 80 seat majority and gone Brexit done? I thought that would keep him in his job?
He did because labour voters wanted to leave the EU, enough to vote for a party they do not believe in. Once he completed the task, he was no longer required
If the only aim of Brexit was to leave the EU and the consequences were irrelevant then why did it take the tories so long to complete ?
I did not say the consequences were irrelevant, you have added that in why?
The vote was clear in or out, once the people had decided what their preference was the job of the government was to enact that decision. This meant moving away from the bloc, impact assessments, rewriting laws, renegotiating trade everything that underpinned our day to day, that is why it took so long and so much effort. Only a fool would expect a perfect break with no problems to be fixed for year to come as the complexity is great.
You know all this though, because I did ask you if you knew what Brexit actually was and you said yes, strangely "You are claiming that Brexit is one of the tories successes because we have left the EU. I disagree , it is being rightly seen as another one of their failures | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement. Nothing on the points ref the turbulent terms due to Brexit and Covid? Would you expect change on top of the largest change this country has seen in years, or a stabilisation? They fucked up both Covid and Brexit
How did they, fuck up brexit? Specific examples would be good.
Brexit has failed , Nigel Farage
Worst inflation for 40 years
Worst living standard since records began
Millions on strike
3 prime ministers in 2 years
Are you going to blame Brexit or the government? Or both ?
Btw, you can’t blame Covid and the war unless you also acknowledge the bankers crash in 2008
You do know Brexit was the vote on whether to leave the EU and we did? Have you got specific items of Brexit that were fucked up as you said?
Ah, this is what we are left with. Brexit hasn’t been a failure because we have left the EU, the consequences are irrelevant ? Ok, then Brexit has been an amazing success, we have left the EU
Still nothing?
Iam agreeing with you, we have left the EU, mission accomplished, i am just surprised that Alexander (the guy who got Brexit done) isn’t still the PM after doing such a great job
Why are you surprised? He served his purpose and has gone past his use by date, like all politicians will.
He has made many mistakes but he followed through on his promise to hit the departure date of leaving the EU.
Because he won an 80 seat majority and gone Brexit done? I thought that would keep him in his job?
He did because labour voters wanted to leave the EU, enough to vote for a party they do not believe in. Once he completed the task, he was no longer required
If the only aim of Brexit was to leave the EU and the consequences were irrelevant then why did it take the tories so long to complete ?
I did not say the consequences were irrelevant, you have added that in why?
The vote was clear in or out, once the people had decided what their preference was the job of the government was to enact that decision. This meant moving away from the bloc, impact assessments, rewriting laws, renegotiating trade everything that underpinned our day to day, that is why it took so long and so much effort. Only a fool would expect a perfect break with no problems to be fixed for year to come as the complexity is great.
You know all this though, because I did ask you if you knew what Brexit actually was and you said yes, strangely
You are claiming that Brexit is one of the tories successes because we have left the EU. I disagree , it is being rightly seen as another one of their failures "That is your opinion, it is not factual. The government did not decide to leave the EU, the people of the UK decided, the government delivered the changes needed to leave. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement. Nothing on the points ref the turbulent terms due to Brexit and Covid? Would you expect change on top of the largest change this country has seen in years, or a stabilisation? " You can’t blame either Brexit or Covid for police numbers | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement. Nothing on the points ref the turbulent terms due to Brexit and Covid? Would you expect change on top of the largest change this country has seen in years, or a stabilisation? They fucked up both Covid and Brexit
How did they, fuck up brexit? Specific examples would be good.
Brexit has failed , Nigel Farage
Worst inflation for 40 years
Worst living standard since records began
Millions on strike
3 prime ministers in 2 years
Are you going to blame Brexit or the government? Or both ?
Btw, you can’t blame Covid and the war unless you also acknowledge the bankers crash in 2008
You do know Brexit was the vote on whether to leave the EU and we did? Have you got specific items of Brexit that were fucked up as you said?
Ah, this is what we are left with. Brexit hasn’t been a failure because we have left the EU, the consequences are irrelevant ? Ok, then Brexit has been an amazing success, we have left the EU
Still nothing?
Iam agreeing with you, we have left the EU, mission accomplished, i am just surprised that Alexander (the guy who got Brexit done) isn’t still the PM after doing such a great job
Why are you surprised? He served his purpose and has gone past his use by date, like all politicians will.
He has made many mistakes but he followed through on his promise to hit the departure date of leaving the EU.
Because he won an 80 seat majority and gone Brexit done? I thought that would keep him in his job?
He did because labour voters wanted to leave the EU, enough to vote for a party they do not believe in. Once he completed the task, he was no longer required
If the only aim of Brexit was to leave the EU and the consequences were irrelevant then why did it take the tories so long to complete ?
I did not say the consequences were irrelevant, you have added that in why?
The vote was clear in or out, once the people had decided what their preference was the job of the government was to enact that decision. This meant moving away from the bloc, impact assessments, rewriting laws, renegotiating trade everything that underpinned our day to day, that is why it took so long and so much effort. Only a fool would expect a perfect break with no problems to be fixed for year to come as the complexity is great.
You know all this though, because I did ask you if you knew what Brexit actually was and you said yes, strangely
You are claiming that Brexit is one of the tories successes because we have left the EU. I disagree , it is being rightly seen as another one of their failures
That is your opinion, it is not factual.
The government did not decide to leave the EU, the people of the UK decided, the government delivered the changes needed to leave. "Why did it take so long then? The people voted to leave in 2016, we have had Tory governments since . Even Nigel Farage has stated that Brexit is a failure even though we have left the EU. One of the reasons that the tories will lose the next election is because of Brexit | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement. Nothing on the points ref the turbulent terms due to Brexit and Covid? Would you expect change on top of the largest change this country has seen in years, or a stabilisation? They fucked up both Covid and Brexit
How did they, fuck up brexit? Specific examples would be good. "You not been in this country the last few years? The referendum was done at a time when the govt was so cock sure we'd vote remain, they didn't have an exit strategy. Cameron couldn't get out quick enough. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement. Nothing on the points ref the turbulent terms due to Brexit and Covid? Would you expect change on top of the largest change this country has seen in years, or a stabilisation? You can’t blame either Brexit or Covid for police numbers "I can't and it never sat well with me. The police road units were the first to go on cost cutting, they honestly thought speed cameras and the CCTV network was going to make that cut the easiest.... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement. Nothing on the points ref the turbulent terms due to Brexit and Covid? Would you expect change on top of the largest change this country has seen in years, or a stabilisation? They fucked up both Covid and Brexit
How did they, fuck up brexit? Specific examples would be good.
You not been in this country the last few years?
The referendum was done at a time when the govt was so cock sure we'd vote remain, they didn't have an exit strategy. Cameron couldn't get out quick enough."The vote was in or out or has the media phrased it brexit. the exit strategy was always going to be hard, as I said leaving and renegotiating all of our trade., laws etc was a monumental challenge. There is a clear misalignment in understanding between the vote and then implementing that vote. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement. Nothing on the points ref the turbulent terms due to Brexit and Covid? Would you expect change on top of the largest change this country has seen in years, or a stabilisation? They fucked up both Covid and Brexit
How did they, fuck up brexit? Specific examples would be good.
Brexit has failed , Nigel Farage
Worst inflation for 40 years
Worst living standard since records began
Millions on strike
3 prime ministers in 2 years
Are you going to blame Brexit or the government? Or both ?
Btw, you can’t blame Covid and the war unless you also acknowledge the bankers crash in 2008
You do know Brexit was the vote on whether to leave the EU and we did? Have you got specific items of Brexit that were fucked up as you said?
Ah, this is what we are left with. Brexit hasn’t been a failure because we have left the EU, the consequences are irrelevant ? Ok, then Brexit has been an amazing success, we have left the EU
Still nothing?
Iam agreeing with you, we have left the EU, mission accomplished, i am just surprised that Alexander (the guy who got Brexit done) isn’t still the PM after doing such a great job
Why are you surprised? He served his purpose and has gone past his use by date, like all politicians will.
He has made many mistakes but he followed through on his promise to hit the departure date of leaving the EU.
Because he won an 80 seat majority and gone Brexit done? I thought that would keep him in his job?
He did because labour voters wanted to leave the EU, enough to vote for a party they do not believe in. Once he completed the task, he was no longer required
If the only aim of Brexit was to leave the EU and the consequences were irrelevant then why did it take the tories so long to complete ?
I did not say the consequences were irrelevant, you have added that in why?
The vote was clear in or out, once the people had decided what their preference was the job of the government was to enact that decision. This meant moving away from the bloc, impact assessments, rewriting laws, renegotiating trade everything that underpinned our day to day, that is why it took so long and so much effort. Only a fool would expect a perfect break with no problems to be fixed for year to come as the complexity is great.
You know all this though, because I did ask you if you knew what Brexit actually was and you said yes, strangely
You are claiming that Brexit is one of the tories successes because we have left the EU. I disagree , it is being rightly seen as another one of their failures
That is your opinion, it is not factual.
The government did not decide to leave the EU, the people of the UK decided, the government delivered the changes needed to leave.
Why did it take so long then? The people voted to leave in 2016, we have had Tory governments since . Even Nigel Farage has stated that Brexit is a failure even though we have left the EU. One of the reasons that the tories will lose the next election is because of Brexit "I'm not going to keep repeating myself, you said you understood the meaning of leaving the EU. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement. Nothing on the points ref the turbulent terms due to Brexit and Covid? Would you expect change on top of the largest change this country has seen in years, or a stabilisation? They fucked up both Covid and Brexit
How did they, fuck up brexit? Specific examples would be good.
Brexit has failed , Nigel Farage
Worst inflation for 40 years
Worst living standard since records began
Millions on strike
3 prime ministers in 2 years
Are you going to blame Brexit or the government? Or both ?
Btw, you can’t blame Covid and the war unless you also acknowledge the bankers crash in 2008
You do know Brexit was the vote on whether to leave the EU and we did? Have you got specific items of Brexit that were fucked up as you said?
Ah, this is what we are left with. Brexit hasn’t been a failure because we have left the EU, the consequences are irrelevant ? Ok, then Brexit has been an amazing success, we have left the EU
Still nothing?
Iam agreeing with you, we have left the EU, mission accomplished, i am just surprised that Alexander (the guy who got Brexit done) isn’t still the PM after doing such a great job
Why are you surprised? He served his purpose and has gone past his use by date, like all politicians will.
He has made many mistakes but he followed through on his promise to hit the departure date of leaving the EU.
Because he won an 80 seat majority and gone Brexit done? I thought that would keep him in his job?
He did because labour voters wanted to leave the EU, enough to vote for a party they do not believe in. Once he completed the task, he was no longer required
If the only aim of Brexit was to leave the EU and the consequences were irrelevant then why did it take the tories so long to complete ?
I did not say the consequences were irrelevant, you have added that in why?
The vote was clear in or out, once the people had decided what their preference was the job of the government was to enact that decision. This meant moving away from the bloc, impact assessments, rewriting laws, renegotiating trade everything that underpinned our day to day, that is why it took so long and so much effort. Only a fool would expect a perfect break with no problems to be fixed for year to come as the complexity is great.
You know all this though, because I did ask you if you knew what Brexit actually was and you said yes, strangely
You are claiming that Brexit is one of the tories successes because we have left the EU. I disagree , it is being rightly seen as another one of their failures
That is your opinion, it is not factual.
The government did not decide to leave the EU, the people of the UK decided, the government delivered the changes needed to leave.
Why did it take so long then? The people voted to leave in 2016, we have had Tory governments since . Even Nigel Farage has stated that Brexit is a failure even though we have left the EU. One of the reasons that the tories will lose the next election is because of Brexit
I'm not going to keep repeating myself, you said you understood the meaning of leaving the EU."Yep , I know you are trying to be pedantic by stating that we have obviously left the EU but millions of people are unhappy with the result and are blaming the tories | |||
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"Its not leaving the EU thats the problem, its the way we left as there was no plan for it and the people who were doing the negotiations to get us out were people who didnt really want to leave the EU as their heart was never in it only to do it out of obligation. So combine those things and we're left the mess that we have at the moment." Fair comment, the tories were in charge throughout though, | |||
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"Its not leaving the EU thats the problem, its the way we left as there was no plan for it and the people who were doing the negotiations to get us out were people who didnt really want to leave the EU as their heart was never in it only to do it out of obligation. So combine those things and we're left the mess that we have at the moment." What version of brexit would be better? I know it was rushed and done with incompetence. But what would have made brexit less damaging? Although it's all academic really, as tanking the economy was part of the plan to enable some of them who orchestrated Brexit to get richer from disaster capitalism and currency trading. | |||
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"Its not leaving the EU thats the problem, its the way we left as there was no plan for it and the people who were doing the negotiations to get us out were people who didnt really want to leave the EU as their heart was never in it only to do it out of obligation. So combine those things and we're left the mess that we have at the moment. What version of brexit would be better? I know it was rushed and done with incompetence. But what would have made brexit less damaging? Although it's all academic really, as tanking the economy was part of the plan to enable some of them who orchestrated Brexit to get richer from disaster capitalism and currency trading. " Rushed, whoa I missed that bit  | |||
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"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? This is a bit like the Police numbers. Removed then reintroduced after finding it was a disaster is not really an achievement. Early years childcare??" Sure Start was a Labour policy rolled back by the Conservative party. Free places, extended school hours, tax credits and tax relief on childcare were all in place under Labour and then rolled back under the Conservative party. The current scheme appears to have been underfunded for years. Have a poke around. | |||
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"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? This is a bit like the Police numbers. Removed then reintroduced after finding it was a disaster is not really an achievement. Early years childcare?? Sure Start was a Labour policy rolled back by the Conservative party. Free places, extended school hours, tax credits and tax relief on childcare were all in place under Labour and then rolled back under the Conservative party. The current scheme appears to have been underfunded for years. Have a poke around." Free nursery education for 2 year old was started by the coalition and then increased by the Tories. You should poke around a little. | |||
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"New Labour's greatest achievement was Brexit. And we still have a New Labour government, we have since 1997." No we haven’t | |||
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"New Labour's greatest achievement was Brexit. And we still have a New Labour government, we have since 1997. No we haven’t "Yes we have. | |||
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"New Labour's greatest achievement was Brexit. And we still have a New Labour government, we have since 1997. No we haven’t
Yes we have. "Definitely not, conservative and coalition governments since 2010 | |||
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"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour!" The problem you have is that there aren't many Tory supporters on here and the ones who are middle or undecided can't be arsed. I did give one but as usual a leftie tried to twist it. I also did ask for your source which was ignored  | |||
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"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? This is a bit like the Police numbers. Removed then reintroduced after finding it was a disaster is not really an achievement. Early years childcare?? Sure Start was a Labour policy rolled back by the Conservative party. Free places, extended school hours, tax credits and tax relief on childcare were all in place under Labour and then rolled back under the Conservative party. The current scheme appears to have been underfunded for years. Have a poke around. Free nursery education for 2 year old was started by the coalition and then increased by the Tories. You should poke around a little." No need to be so aggressive wanting to prove me wrong. I'd remind you that I've posted more positives about the Conservative Governments than you have. You have also shuffled the goalposts somewhat. Childcare from 3 was out in place long ago. That for 2 year olds is new but came after big roll-backs in Sure Start and the end of tax free childcare vouchers. The current system is underfunded: BLOG: Why 30 hours free childcare isn’t really ‘free’ The new proposals extend this problem: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-64985069.amp | |||
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"I know most of you people here may freak out when I say this but had this government played their cards right we should of left with no deal. Obviously theres risk to that but had we left with a mitigated plan to managed a no deal scenario and meant it believe me I think the EU would of given us a better deal then the current one we have at the moment. But what happened instead was Theresa May begged the EU for a deal on bended knees and ended up on all fours which is no way to enter a negotiation. " That is patently and obviously untrue and easily proven by how the EU have adhered to the deal that actually was struck - to the word. | |||
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"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? This is a bit like the Police numbers. Removed then reintroduced after finding it was a disaster is not really an achievement. Early years childcare?? Sure Start was a Labour policy rolled back by the Conservative party. Free places, extended school hours, tax credits and tax relief on childcare were all in place under Labour and then rolled back under the Conservative party. The current scheme appears to have been underfunded for years. Have a poke around. Free nursery education for 2 year old was started by the coalition and then increased by the Tories. You should poke around a little. No need to be so aggressive wanting to prove me wrong. I'd remind you that I've posted more positives about the Conservative Governments than you have. You have also shuffled the goalposts somewhat. Childcare from 3 was out in place long ago. That for 2 year olds is new but came after big roll-backs in Sure Start and the end of tax free childcare vouchers. The current system is underfunded: BLOG: Why 30 hours free childcare isn’t really ‘free’ The new proposals extend this problem: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-64985069.amp" That's why I said 'uplift in early years'. I wouldn't need to be so aggressive I you could read, I haven't moved the goalposts at all. BTW, of course 'free' isn't really FREE, everyone knows that. | |||
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"New Labour's greatest achievement was Brexit. And we still have a New Labour government, we have since 1997. No we haven’t
Yes we have.
Definitely not, conservative and coalition governments since 2010 "Tongue-in-cheek. He thinks Tories have been left of right since 2010 . | |||
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"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour!" Where's the smug smilie? | |||
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"So I saw this the other day and thought it was interesting. As of May 20th, the Tories have now been in power for longer than New Labour were. New Labour achieved the following in their time in office. ECONOMY Longest period of low inflation growth since 1960. Created an independent Bank of England. Wrote off debt for dozens of poor nations. Doubled overseas aid (a better life at home reduces the incentive to migrate to the UK). Created GiftAid to help charities. Bailed out the banks during 2008 financial crisis preventing a financial services armageddon* POVERTY 600,000 children lifted out of poverty. 1m pensioners lifted out of poverty. 26% increase in child benefit. Introduced winter fuel payments. Made improvements to 1m social homes. Introduced child Tax Credits. Created 3m child trust funds. Free bus travel for over 60s. HEALTH 85,000 more nurses. NHS waiting times down 82%. 98% of A&E patients seen in 4 hours. Free eye tests for over 60s. Heart disease deaths down 150,000. Cancer deaths down 50,000. Free breast screening for 50-70 year-olds. In-patient waiting lists down 500,000. Created NHS Direct. EMPLOYMENT Introduced the first minimum wage. Created 1.8m new jobs. Cut long term unemployment by 75%. Doubled the number of apprenticeships. Introduced the right to 24 days holiday. Introduced 2 weeks paternity leave. EDUCATION Doubled education funding for every pupil. 36,000 additional teachers. Added 274,000 teaching assistants. 2,200 Sure Start centres. Record literacy. Record numeracy. Free nursery places. Free fruit for 4-6 year-olds. SOCIAL / CULTURAL Scrapped Section 28. Introduced Civil Partnerships. Banned fox hunting. Free TV licenses to over 75s. Free entry to museums and art galleries Smoking ban. Olympics and the sporting legacy since destroyed by Tories. SECURITY Peace in Ireland (building on John Major's work, but still, completed by Labour). Added 14,000 extra police. Cut crime by 35%. Increased criminal justice (court) spending by 21%. MISCELLANEOUS Introduced devolution for Scotland and Wales. Banned fur farming. Brought the Human Rights Act into UK law. Created the cleanest rivers, beaches, water and air since the industrial revolution. BAD STUFF Took the UK into the illegal 2nd Iraq War. Sold off a chunk of UK gold reserves when prices were low. *Some will say something like “spent all the money” but conveniently ignore the requirement to act on the 2008 financial crisis to avoid economic meltdown. Anything else? What have the Tories achieved in the same time frame?" That's quite an impressive list and as others would take it at face value though we know all to well that figures can be made to look better using particular dates ect. Anyway what I wanted to ask is are you expecting the Labour government that we will almost certainly have soon to do the same achievements as new Labour did back then? Is SKS and co as good as Blair and co ? To me he is an improvement on corbyn and seems more central as per Blair's new Labour but yet to be convinced he can achieve the things on your list | |||
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"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? Was hoping one of our resident Tories could enlighten us but all a but quiet so far! Surely they have achieved something positive in 13yrs? The few things listed are slim pickings! I'll admit to not really looking into it but take overseas aid, you claimed Labour doubled it (they did), the Tories then doubled it again, came back down post covid. It's very easy to say something which is true without giving context to make the 'other side' look bad. It was a limited list, so that others could add the separate achievements that this lot may have added. That's the point. I could probably go through 'labours list' and add 'Tory improvements' to it. So in effect half of the things on 'labours list' aren't really any 'achievements' but just governement going about governement business regardless of party. Handing the baton over is all that is happening in reality, and another group hold it for a period and then the other. I expect each successive government to manage the here and now and add in some improvements. For example, police, the numbers have increased under this government, I think the last I read they have achieved 16k of the 20K target. The Tories have had a shaky 2 terms with brexit being the dominating factor followed by covid. It has been a keep the lights on as the landscape continues to change. If I was going to declare the tories biggest achievements they would be: They delivered the will and direction of the people by leaving the EU in what was possibly one of the most turbulent political landscapes in the history of the country. I'm not convinced this would have happened under any other government. The 2nd achievement and this is one I thought I would never see! They managed to turn the northern towns that are traditionally labour strongholds blue. Unheard of, labour voters, voted on mass tory. The people of this country voted for the party they thought would deliver what they wanted, they did not trust any other party to deliver their wishes. The tories have done the job, simple as that. Hmmm police numbers are, I believe, still a net decrease so I do not think that represents an achievement. Nothing on the points ref the turbulent terms due to Brexit and Covid? Would you expect change on top of the largest change this country has seen in years, or a stabilisation? They fucked up both Covid and Brexit
How did they, fuck up brexit? Specific examples would be good.
Brexit has failed , Nigel Farage
Worst inflation for 40 years
Worst living standard since records began
Millions on strike
3 prime ministers in 2 years
Are you going to blame Brexit or the government? Or both ?
Btw, you can’t blame Covid and the war unless you also acknowledge the bankers crash in 2008
You do know Brexit was the vote on whether to leave the EU and we did? Have you got specific items of Brexit that were fucked up as you said?
Ah, this is what we are left with. Brexit hasn’t been a failure because we have left the EU, the consequences are irrelevant ? Ok, then Brexit has been an amazing success, we have left the EU
Still nothing?
Iam agreeing with you, we have left the EU, mission accomplished, i am just surprised that Alexander (the guy who got Brexit done) isn’t still the PM after doing such a great job
Why are you surprised? He served his purpose and has gone past his use by date, like all politicians will.
He has made many mistakes but he followed through on his promise to hit the departure date of leaving the EU.
Because he won an 80 seat majority and gone Brexit done? I thought that would keep him in his job?
He did because labour voters wanted to leave the EU, enough to vote for a party they do not believe in. Once he completed the task, he was no longer required
If the only aim of Brexit was to leave the EU and the consequences were irrelevant then why did it take the tories so long to complete ?
I did not say the consequences were irrelevant, you have added that in why?
The vote was clear in or out, once the people had decided what their preference was the job of the government was to enact that decision. This meant moving away from the bloc, impact assessments, rewriting laws, renegotiating trade everything that underpinned our day to day, that is why it took so long and so much effort. Only a fool would expect a perfect break with no problems to be fixed for year to come as the complexity is great.
You know all this though, because I did ask you if you knew what Brexit actually was and you said yes, strangely
You are claiming that Brexit is one of the tories successes because we have left the EU. I disagree , it is being rightly seen as another one of their failures
That is your opinion, it is not factual.
The government did not decide to leave the EU, the people of the UK decided, the government delivered the changes needed to leave.
Why did it take so long then? The people voted to leave in 2016, we have had Tory governments since . Even Nigel Farage has stated that Brexit is a failure even though we have left the EU. One of the reasons that the tories will lose the next election is because of Brexit
I'm not going to keep repeating myself, you said you understood the meaning of leaving the EU.
Yep , I know you are trying to be pedantic by stating that we have obviously left the EU but millions of people are unhappy with the result and are blaming the tories "Which is pointing the finger in the wrong direction, if northern labour voters hadn't been so determined to leave the EU, we wouldn't have had a tory government for the last 7 years or been out of the EU. | |||
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"Back on topic: Tory achievement, national living wage. " Much as I hate to say, Tory failure, fucking lying | |||
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"I know most of you people here may freak out when I say this but had this government played their cards right we should of left with no deal. Obviously theres risk to that but had we left with a mitigated plan to managed a no deal scenario and meant it believe me I think the EU would of given us a better deal then the current one we have at the moment. But what happened instead was Theresa May begged the EU for a deal on bended knees and ended up on all fours which is no way to enter a negotiation. That is patently and obviously untrue and easily proven by how the EU have adhered to the deal that actually was struck - to the word. " We have to agree to disagree on this | |||
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"Back on topic: Tory achievement, national living wage. Much as I hate to say, Tory failure, fucking lying " I think chuckles is rubbing off on you  | |||
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"Back on topic: Tory achievement, national living wage. " I live the proof there are loopholes. | |||
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"Back on topic: Tory achievement, national living wage. Much as I hate to say, Tory failure, fucking lying " National living wage was definitely Tories | |||
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"Back on topic: Tory achievement, national living wage. Much as I hate to say, Tory failure, fucking lying National living wage was definitely Tories" Is that reason enough to vote for them? | |||
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"Back on topic: Tory achievement, national living wage. Much as I hate to say, Tory failure, fucking lying National living wage was definitely Tories Is that reason enough to vote for them?" I don't think we're talking about who to vote for... | |||
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"Back on topic: Tory achievement, national living wage. Much as I hate to say, Tory failure, fucking lying National living wage was definitely Tories Is that reason enough to vote for them? I don't think we're talking about who to vote for... "In which case I'll drop out | |||
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"So I saw this the other day and thought it was interesting. As of May 20th, the Tories have now been in power for longer than New Labour were. New Labour achieved the following in their time in office. ECONOMY Longest period of low inflation growth since 1960. Created an independent Bank of England. Wrote off debt for dozens of poor nations. Doubled overseas aid (a better life at home reduces the incentive to migrate to the UK). Created GiftAid to help charities. Bailed out the banks during 2008 financial crisis preventing a financial services armageddon* POVERTY 600,000 children lifted out of poverty. 1m pensioners lifted out of poverty. 26% increase in child benefit. Introduced winter fuel payments. Made improvements to 1m social homes. Introduced child Tax Credits. Created 3m child trust funds. Free bus travel for over 60s. HEALTH 85,000 more nurses. NHS waiting times down 82%. 98% of A&E patients seen in 4 hours. Free eye tests for over 60s. Heart disease deaths down 150,000. Cancer deaths down 50,000. Free breast screening for 50-70 year-olds. In-patient waiting lists down 500,000. Created NHS Direct. EMPLOYMENT Introduced the first minimum wage. Created 1.8m new jobs. Cut long term unemployment by 75%. Doubled the number of apprenticeships. Introduced the right to 24 days holiday. Introduced 2 weeks paternity leave. EDUCATION Doubled education funding for every pupil. 36,000 additional teachers. Added 274,000 teaching assistants. 2,200 Sure Start centres. Record literacy. Record numeracy. Free nursery places. Free fruit for 4-6 year-olds. SOCIAL / CULTURAL Scrapped Section 28. Introduced Civil Partnerships. Banned fox hunting. Free TV licenses to over 75s. Free entry to museums and art galleries Smoking ban. Olympics and the sporting legacy since destroyed by Tories. SECURITY Peace in Ireland (building on John Major's work, but still, completed by Labour). Added 14,000 extra police. Cut crime by 35%. Increased criminal justice (court) spending by 21%. MISCELLANEOUS Introduced devolution for Scotland and Wales. Banned fur farming. Brought the Human Rights Act into UK law. Created the cleanest rivers, beaches, water and air since the industrial revolution. BAD STUFF Took the UK into the illegal 2nd Iraq War. Sold off a chunk of UK gold reserves when prices were low. *Some will say something like “spent all the money” but conveniently ignore the requirement to act on the 2008 financial crisis to avoid economic meltdown. Anything else? What have the Tories achieved in the same time frame? That's quite an impressive list and as others would take it at face value though we know all to well that figures can be made to look better using particular dates ect. Anyway what I wanted to ask is are you expecting the Labour government that we will almost certainly have soon to do the same achievements as new Labour did back then? Is SKS and co as good as Blair and co ? To me he is an improvement on corbyn and seems more central as per Blair's new Labour but yet to be convinced he can achieve the things on your list" IMO no the next Labour govt will not likely achieve as much. Blair’s early years as PM were impressive but he screwed his own legacy and got into bed with George Bush. SKS is rather bland and I remain concerned he will flip flop around rather than have a clear vision and focus. I think they/he will be more focused on just getting into govt rather than pin his colours to the mast and say “if you want XYZ then vote for us”. That aside...still a rather paltry list of Tory achievements over 13 years! BTW it is not “my list” thought that was clear? | |||
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"Just to add, I do think we need change. The Tories are a busted flush. They have been gutted by infighting and ERG influence. They are devoid of ideas and have run out of steam. They need to throw in the towel and go away to regroup and reinvent themselves. Let someone else take the reins for a while." I agree we need change. I actually think Rishi could revitalise the Tories but they need a break, and I don't thunk he has enough time before a GE anyway | |||
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"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour! Where's the smug smilie?" Who me 
There’s waaay too much trolling on here to ever be smug. We have at least one person who seems to be an expert in everything, although they lack proper credentials | |||
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"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour! Where's the smug smilie? Who me
There’s waaay too much trolling on here to ever be smug. We have at least one person who seems to be an expert in everything, although they lack proper credentials "There's definitely 2 of them | |||
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"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour! Where's the smug smilie? Who me
There’s waaay too much trolling on here to ever be smug. We have at least one person who seems to be an expert in everything, although they lack proper credentials "No, I wanted to use a smug smilie. Haha expert... Just opinionated people  | |||
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"So I saw this the other day and thought it was interesting. As of May 20th, the Tories have now been in power for longer than New Labour were. New Labour achieved the following in their time in office. ECONOMY Longest period of low inflation growth since 1960. Created an independent Bank of England. Wrote off debt for dozens of poor nations. Doubled overseas aid (a better life at home reduces the incentive to migrate to the UK). Created GiftAid to help charities. Bailed out the banks during 2008 financial crisis preventing a financial services armageddon* POVERTY 600,000 children lifted out of poverty. 1m pensioners lifted out of poverty. 26% increase in child benefit. Introduced winter fuel payments. Made improvements to 1m social homes. Introduced child Tax Credits. Created 3m child trust funds. Free bus travel for over 60s. HEALTH 85,000 more nurses. NHS waiting times down 82%. 98% of A&E patients seen in 4 hours. Free eye tests for over 60s. Heart disease deaths down 150,000. Cancer deaths down 50,000. Free breast screening for 50-70 year-olds. In-patient waiting lists down 500,000. Created NHS Direct. EMPLOYMENT Introduced the first minimum wage. Created 1.8m new jobs. Cut long term unemployment by 75%. Doubled the number of apprenticeships. Introduced the right to 24 days holiday. Introduced 2 weeks paternity leave. EDUCATION Doubled education funding for every pupil. 36,000 additional teachers. Added 274,000 teaching assistants. 2,200 Sure Start centres. Record literacy. Record numeracy. Free nursery places. Free fruit for 4-6 year-olds. SOCIAL / CULTURAL Scrapped Section 28. Introduced Civil Partnerships. Banned fox hunting. Free TV licenses to over 75s. Free entry to museums and art galleries Smoking ban. Olympics and the sporting legacy since destroyed by Tories. SECURITY Peace in Ireland (building on John Major's work, but still, completed by Labour). Added 14,000 extra police. Cut crime by 35%. Increased criminal justice (court) spending by 21%. MISCELLANEOUS Introduced devolution for Scotland and Wales. Banned fur farming. Brought the Human Rights Act into UK law. Created the cleanest rivers, beaches, water and air since the industrial revolution. BAD STUFF Took the UK into the illegal 2nd Iraq War. Sold off a chunk of UK gold reserves when prices were low. *Some will say something like “spent all the money” but conveniently ignore the requirement to act on the 2008 financial crisis to avoid economic meltdown. Anything else? What have the Tories achieved in the same time frame? That's quite an impressive list and as others would take it at face value though we know all to well that figures can be made to look better using particular dates ect. Anyway what I wanted to ask is are you expecting the Labour government that we will almost certainly have soon to do the same achievements as new Labour did back then? Is SKS and co as good as Blair and co ? To me he is an improvement on corbyn and seems more central as per Blair's new Labour but yet to be convinced he can achieve the things on your list IMO no the next Labour govt will not likely achieve as much. Blair’s early years as PM were impressive but he screwed his own legacy and got into bed with George Bush. SKS is rather bland and I remain concerned he will flip flop around rather than have a clear vision and focus. I think they/he will be more focused on just getting into govt rather than pin his colours to the mast and say “if you want XYZ then vote for us”. That aside...still a rather paltry list of Tory achievements over 13 years! BTW it is not “my list” thought that was clear?" I prefer bland to buffoonery and bullshit. | |||
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"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? This is a bit like the Police numbers. Removed then reintroduced after finding it was a disaster is not really an achievement. Early years childcare?? Sure Start was a Labour policy rolled back by the Conservative party. Free places, extended school hours, tax credits and tax relief on childcare were all in place under Labour and then rolled back under the Conservative party. The current scheme appears to have been underfunded for years. Have a poke around. Free nursery education for 2 year old was started by the coalition and then increased by the Tories. You should poke around a little. No need to be so aggressive wanting to prove me wrong. I'd remind you that I've posted more positives about the Conservative Governments than you have. You have also shuffled the goalposts somewhat. Childcare from 3 was out in place long ago. That for 2 year olds is new but came after big roll-backs in Sure Start and the end of tax free childcare vouchers. The current system is underfunded: BLOG: Why 30 hours free childcare isn’t really ‘free’ The new proposals extend this problem: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-64985069.amp That's why I said 'uplift in early years'. I wouldn't need to be so aggressive I you could read, I haven't moved the goalposts at all. BTW, of course 'free' isn't really FREE, everyone knows that. " Early YearS childcare was out in place by the Labour party. That's how it was launched at the time with Sure Start. Adding one more year (singular) to a system that is not functioning now is a great aspiration but is not delivering anything real, especially after it comes after rolling back many of the benefits that existed. I gave you the search term. Don't blame me for your reaction. I didn't provoke you in any way whatsoever. | |||
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"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? This is a bit like the Police numbers. Removed then reintroduced after finding it was a disaster is not really an achievement. Early years childcare?? Sure Start was a Labour policy rolled back by the Conservative party. Free places, extended school hours, tax credits and tax relief on childcare were all in place under Labour and then rolled back under the Conservative party. The current scheme appears to have been underfunded for years. Have a poke around. Free nursery education for 2 year old was started by the coalition and then increased by the Tories. You should poke around a little. No need to be so aggressive wanting to prove me wrong. I'd remind you that I've posted more positives about the Conservative Governments than you have. You have also shuffled the goalposts somewhat. Childcare from 3 was out in place long ago. That for 2 year olds is new but came after big roll-backs in Sure Start and the end of tax free childcare vouchers. The current system is underfunded: BLOG: Why 30 hours free childcare isn’t really ‘free’ The new proposals extend this problem: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-64985069.amp That's why I said 'uplift in early years'. I wouldn't need to be so aggressive I you could read, I haven't moved the goalposts at all. BTW, of course 'free' isn't really FREE, everyone knows that. Early YearS childcare was out in place by the Labour party. That's how it was launched at the time with Sure Start. Adding one more year (singular) to a system that is not functioning now is a great aspiration but is not delivering anything real, especially after it comes after rolling back many of the benefits that existed. I gave you the search term. Don't blame me for your reaction. I didn't provoke you in any way whatsoever." Do you struggle with the word uplift? | |||
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"If labour were so good why did they lose the GE and remain as opposition for such a long period of time? Stock answers to follow: Tories have all the money and control everything The media put them there Racists voted them in Idiots voted them in The electorate don’t know what they’re voting for The electorate were fooled again " Why did they lose in 2010? Gordon Brown wasn't a leader people could rally around, even less so than David Cameron, who won but couldn't manage a majority. 2015 comes and Labour had the choice of two brothers. People kid themselves over David being the one who could win. It was incredibly wishful thinking. By 2015, the narrative that Labour had bankrupted the country had taken root, they didn't push back enough, and in keeping with our political tradition, the minority party propping up the government is wiped out. David was probably the wiser choice but I still do noy think he was as effective as some make him out to be. So in 2015, the choice is 'steady Cameron' or Ed Miliband, whose polling was dreadful. After his botched election, Labour elect another leader who manages to be even worse. 2017 rolls along and while Labour make some gains, they come second in a two horse race. Theresa May was not a particularly difficult opponent. While Cameron and Osborne can claim to be tightening the belts, May was the face of the reality of the cuts. It was not particularly aspirational. When she leaves, Labour kid themselves into thinking '2017 was good, we can be even more radical next time'. They tried that in their 2019 manifesto and they were slaughtered in an election no Labour leader could win, but was made worse by their own side. Cameron, May, and Johnson were not particularly popular. But they didn't need to be, our politics is such that you need only be more popular than your opponent. It's not remotely unique to the last 13 years, it has been the case for every successful Labour leader too. 2024/5 looks to be a straightforward victory, only complacency will keep Starmer from government now. While I'm not looking to Labour now full of hope and joy, it'll be a marked improvement on the last few years. | |||
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" Iam agreeing with you, we have left the EU, mission accomplished, i am just surprised that Alexander (the guy who got Brexit done) isn’t still the PM after doing such a great job
Why are you surprised? He served his purpose and has gone past his use by date, like all politicians will.
He has made many mistakes but he followed through on his promise to hit the departure date of leaving the EU. "'Followed through', now there's an interesting expression which I had never heard until I read some other Fab threads! | |||
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"So I saw this the other day and thought it was interesting. As of May 20th, the Tories have now been in power for longer than New Labour were. New Labour achieved the following in their time in office. ECONOMY Longest period of low inflation growth since 1960. Created an independent Bank of England. Wrote off debt for dozens of poor nations. Doubled overseas aid (a better life at home reduces the incentive to migrate to the UK). Created GiftAid to help charities. Bailed out the banks during 2008 financial crisis preventing a financial services armageddon* POVERTY 600,000 children lifted out of poverty. 1m pensioners lifted out of poverty. 26% increase in child benefit. Introduced winter fuel payments. Made improvements to 1m social homes. Introduced child Tax Credits. Created 3m child trust funds. Free bus travel for over 60s. HEALTH 85,000 more nurses. NHS waiting times down 82%. 98% of A&E patients seen in 4 hours. Free eye tests for over 60s. Heart disease deaths down 150,000. Cancer deaths down 50,000. Free breast screening for 50-70 year-olds. In-patient waiting lists down 500,000. Created NHS Direct. EMPLOYMENT Introduced the first minimum wage. Created 1.8m new jobs. Cut long term unemployment by 75%. Doubled the number of apprenticeships. Introduced the right to 24 days holiday. Introduced 2 weeks paternity leave. EDUCATION Doubled education funding for every pupil. 36,000 additional teachers. Added 274,000 teaching assistants. 2,200 Sure Start centres. Record literacy. Record numeracy. Free nursery places. Free fruit for 4-6 year-olds. SOCIAL / CULTURAL Scrapped Section 28. Introduced Civil Partnerships. Banned fox hunting. Free TV licenses to over 75s. Free entry to museums and art galleries Smoking ban. Olympics and the sporting legacy since destroyed by Tories. SECURITY Peace in Ireland (building on John Major's work, but still, completed by Labour). Added 14,000 extra police. Cut crime by 35%. Increased criminal justice (court) spending by 21%. MISCELLANEOUS Introduced devolution for Scotland and Wales. Banned fur farming. Brought the Human Rights Act into UK law. Created the cleanest rivers, beaches, water and air since the industrial revolution. BAD STUFF Took the UK into the illegal 2nd Iraq War. Sold off a chunk of UK gold reserves when prices were low. *Some will say something like “spent all the money” but conveniently ignore the requirement to act on the 2008 financial crisis to avoid economic meltdown. Anything else? What have the Tories achieved in the same time frame? That's quite an impressive list and as others would take it at face value though we know all to well that figures can be made to look better using particular dates ect. Anyway what I wanted to ask is are you expecting the Labour government that we will almost certainly have soon to do the same achievements as new Labour did back then? Is SKS and co as good as Blair and co ? To me he is an improvement on corbyn and seems more central as per Blair's new Labour but yet to be convinced he can achieve the things on your list IMO no the next Labour govt will not likely achieve as much. Blair’s early years as PM were impressive but he screwed his own legacy and got into bed with George Bush. SKS is rather bland and I remain concerned he will flip flop around rather than have a clear vision and focus. I think they/he will be more focused on just getting into govt rather than pin his colours to the mast and say “if you want XYZ then vote for us”. That aside...still a rather paltry list of Tory achievements over 13 years! BTW it is not “my list” thought that was clear?" I share your concerns about SKS and current Labour. Unfortunately they are the only likely new government and as you say probably will not achieve what new Labour and Blair did. As I suspect new Labour and Blair are unlikely to make a comeback it's SKS version of Labour that need to make achievements. Anyway apologies for saying your list. I should have Said the list you posted. Exactly who's list is it? | |||
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"Sold off all the gold reserves, spent money that we didn't have, had a massive deficit bigger than we've ever seen (pre COVID) and left a post-it note saying there's no money left. " It’s just numbers on a screen. People had much better lives regardless of those numbers . As wars and COVID proved, they can just type any numbers on the screen | |||
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"I know most of you people here may freak out when I say this but had this government played their cards right we should of left with no deal. Obviously theres risk to that but had we left with a mitigated plan to managed a no deal scenario and meant it believe me I think the EU would of given us a better deal then the current one we have at the moment. But what happened instead was Theresa May begged the EU for a deal on bended knees and ended up on all fours which is no way to enter a negotiation. " Yes. No deal would have fucked us a lot harder and completely crushed the economy and normal working people. This would have helped the top tier brexiteers make even more cash. | |||
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"I do agree that we need change but that change cant be under a Labour government, they just as mediocre as Tories as they seem more concerned about gender issues which I'm not sure why that's so important. I'm scared what they be like if they were to govern." They're only "more concerned" with gender issues if you get your "news" from proper right wing dodgy websites. I do generally agree that Labour aren't worth voting for. A less-shit Tories isn't what we need. | |||
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"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? This is a bit like the Police numbers. Removed then reintroduced after finding it was a disaster is not really an achievement. Early years childcare?? Sure Start was a Labour policy rolled back by the Conservative party. Free places, extended school hours, tax credits and tax relief on childcare were all in place under Labour and then rolled back under the Conservative party. The current scheme appears to have been underfunded for years. Have a poke around. Free nursery education for 2 year old was started by the coalition and then increased by the Tories. You should poke around a little. No need to be so aggressive wanting to prove me wrong. I'd remind you that I've posted more positives about the Conservative Governments than you have. You have also shuffled the goalposts somewhat. Childcare from 3 was out in place long ago. That for 2 year olds is new but came after big roll-backs in Sure Start and the end of tax free childcare vouchers. The current system is underfunded: BLOG: Why 30 hours free childcare isn’t really ‘free’ The new proposals extend this problem: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-64985069.amp That's why I said 'uplift in early years'. I wouldn't need to be so aggressive I you could read, I haven't moved the goalposts at all. BTW, of course 'free' isn't really FREE, everyone knows that. Early YearS childcare was out in place by the Labour party. That's how it was launched at the time with Sure Start. Adding one more year (singular) to a system that is not functioning now is a great aspiration but is not delivering anything real, especially after it comes after rolling back many of the benefits that existed. I gave you the search term. Don't blame me for your reaction. I didn't provoke you in any way whatsoever. Do you struggle with the word uplift? " Where did I actually start? "Removed then reintroduced after finding it was a disaster is not really an achievement." It's an "uplift" if they hadn't rolled something back and if the benefit was actually functioning properly. Neither is the case. That's the point that I have made. You obsess about the definition of a word if you wish. | |||
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" Gordon Brown of the Labour Party sold half the nations gold reserves between 1999-2002, he literally gave it away and it is considered one of the biggest all time blunders in British history …. Never vote Labour, they’d sell your grandma down the river "But how much damage did Brown's blunder do in comparison to Boris and Farage conning the electorate into Brexit for the benefit of their personal ambitions? | |||
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"Back on topic: Tory achievement, national living wage. Much as I hate to say, Tory failure, fucking lying National living wage was definitely Tories" It was Lib Dem’s actually. A coalition compromise. | |||
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"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? This is a bit like the Police numbers. Removed then reintroduced after finding it was a disaster is not really an achievement. Early years childcare?? Sure Start was a Labour policy rolled back by the Conservative party. Free places, extended school hours, tax credits and tax relief on childcare were all in place under Labour and then rolled back under the Conservative party. The current scheme appears to have been underfunded for years. Have a poke around. Free nursery education for 2 year old was started by the coalition and then increased by the Tories. You should poke around a little. No need to be so aggressive wanting to prove me wrong. I'd remind you that I've posted more positives about the Conservative Governments than you have. You have also shuffled the goalposts somewhat. Childcare from 3 was out in place long ago. That for 2 year olds is new but came after big roll-backs in Sure Start and the end of tax free childcare vouchers. The current system is underfunded: BLOG: Why 30 hours free childcare isn’t really ‘free’ The new proposals extend this problem: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-64985069.amp That's why I said 'uplift in early years'. I wouldn't need to be so aggressive I you could read, I haven't moved the goalposts at all. BTW, of course 'free' isn't really FREE, everyone knows that. Early YearS childcare was out in place by the Labour party. That's how it was launched at the time with Sure Start. Adding one more year (singular) to a system that is not functioning now is a great aspiration but is not delivering anything real, especially after it comes after rolling back many of the benefits that existed. I gave you the search term. Don't blame me for your reaction. I didn't provoke you in any way whatsoever. Do you struggle with the word uplift? Where did I actually start? "Removed then reintroduced after finding it was a disaster is not really an achievement." It's an "uplift" if they hadn't rolled something back and if the benefit was actually functioning properly. Neither is the case. That's the point that I have made. You obsess about the definition of a word if you wish. " The Tories never removed free childcare. They took money from the SureStart budget to pay for 3yo and then uplifted that to include 2yo. I can obsess over a word because that's the word I used. You can try spin it all you like but there's really nothing to spin. Do yourself a favour on this one mate. | |||
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"Back on topic: Tory achievement, national living wage. Much as I hate to say, Tory failure, fucking lying National living wage was definitely Tories It was Lib Dem’s actually. A coalition compromise." The NLW eas introduced in 2016. That was not a coalition governement. It's not even hard to do this research  | |||
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"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? This is a bit like the Police numbers. Removed then reintroduced after finding it was a disaster is not really an achievement. Early years childcare?? Sure Start was a Labour policy rolled back by the Conservative party. Free places, extended school hours, tax credits and tax relief on childcare were all in place under Labour and then rolled back under the Conservative party. The current scheme appears to have been underfunded for years. Have a poke around. Free nursery education for 2 year old was started by the coalition and then increased by the Tories. You should poke around a little. No need to be so aggressive wanting to prove me wrong. I'd remind you that I've posted more positives about the Conservative Governments than you have. You have also shuffled the goalposts somewhat. Childcare from 3 was out in place long ago. That for 2 year olds is new but came after big roll-backs in Sure Start and the end of tax free childcare vouchers. The current system is underfunded: BLOG: Why 30 hours free childcare isn’t really ‘free’ The new proposals extend this problem: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-64985069.amp That's why I said 'uplift in early years'. I wouldn't need to be so aggressive I you could read, I haven't moved the goalposts at all. BTW, of course 'free' isn't really FREE, everyone knows that. Early YearS childcare was out in place by the Labour party. That's how it was launched at the time with Sure Start. Adding one more year (singular) to a system that is not functioning now is a great aspiration but is not delivering anything real, especially after it comes after rolling back many of the benefits that existed. I gave you the search term. Don't blame me for your reaction. I didn't provoke you in any way whatsoever. Do you struggle with the word uplift? Where did I actually start? "Removed then reintroduced after finding it was a disaster is not really an achievement." It's an "uplift" if they hadn't rolled something back and if the benefit was actually functioning properly. Neither is the case. That's the point that I have made. You obsess about the definition of a word if you wish. The Tories never removed free childcare. They took money from the SureStart budget to pay for 3yo and then uplifted that to include 2yo. I can obsess over a word because that's the word I used. You can try spin it all you like but there's really nothing to spin. Do yourself a favour on this one mate." So, they rearranged the deckchairs. The "free" childcare "uplift" is underfunded and not functioning. Is that the case or not? I don't need to "try" to do anything. You have one reference. You can find plenty more yourself. Again, I have provided more actual positives from this current Conservative government in this thread than you have managed to. I will argue the bogus ones. | |||
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"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? This is a bit like the Police numbers. Removed then reintroduced after finding it was a disaster is not really an achievement. Early years childcare?? Sure Start was a Labour policy rolled back by the Conservative party. Free places, extended school hours, tax credits and tax relief on childcare were all in place under Labour and then rolled back under the Conservative party. The current scheme appears to have been underfunded for years. Have a poke around. Free nursery education for 2 year old was started by the coalition and then increased by the Tories. You should poke around a little. No need to be so aggressive wanting to prove me wrong. I'd remind you that I've posted more positives about the Conservative Governments than you have. You have also shuffled the goalposts somewhat. Childcare from 3 was out in place long ago. That for 2 year olds is new but came after big roll-backs in Sure Start and the end of tax free childcare vouchers. The current system is underfunded: BLOG: Why 30 hours free childcare isn’t really ‘free’ The new proposals extend this problem: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-64985069.amp That's why I said 'uplift in early years'. I wouldn't need to be so aggressive I you could read, I haven't moved the goalposts at all. BTW, of course 'free' isn't really FREE, everyone knows that. Early YearS childcare was out in place by the Labour party. That's how it was launched at the time with Sure Start. Adding one more year (singular) to a system that is not functioning now is a great aspiration but is not delivering anything real, especially after it comes after rolling back many of the benefits that existed. I gave you the search term. Don't blame me for your reaction. I didn't provoke you in any way whatsoever. Do you struggle with the word uplift? Where did I actually start? "Removed then reintroduced after finding it was a disaster is not really an achievement." It's an "uplift" if they hadn't rolled something back and if the benefit was actually functioning properly. Neither is the case. That's the point that I have made. You obsess about the definition of a word if you wish. The Tories never removed free childcare. They took money from the SureStart budget to pay for 3yo and then uplifted that to include 2yo. I can obsess over a word because that's the word I used. You can try spin it all you like but there's really nothing to spin. Do yourself a favour on this one mate. So, they rearranged the deckchairs. The "free" childcare "uplift" is underfunded and not functioning. Is that the case or not? I don't need to "try" to do anything. You have one reference. You can find plenty more yourself. Again, I have provided more actual positives from this current Conservative government in this thread than you have managed to. I will argue the bogus ones." Did the Tories/LibDems introduce free pre-school places for most 3 year olds? Yes, they did. Did the Tories then extend this to include 2 year olds? Yes, they did. Are the Tories trying to extend it further to include 1 year olds? Yes, they are. Is it not functioning and underfunded? If you say so, I mean your source is a blog piece but cool. This is not a competition on who can provide 'more postives', as much as you'd like to make it so. Refute what I've said, not what you want to argue. | |||
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"The Tories brought an uplift in free early years childcare. BTW, I've accepted the Labour 'achievements' at face value but I'm also gonna hazard a guess that the Tories have improved on some of those. Can you confirm if they have or not? This is a bit like the Police numbers. Removed then reintroduced after finding it was a disaster is not really an achievement. Early years childcare?? Sure Start was a Labour policy rolled back by the Conservative party. Free places, extended school hours, tax credits and tax relief on childcare were all in place under Labour and then rolled back under the Conservative party. The current scheme appears to have been underfunded for years. Have a poke around. Free nursery education for 2 year old was started by the coalition and then increased by the Tories. You should poke around a little. No need to be so aggressive wanting to prove me wrong. I'd remind you that I've posted more positives about the Conservative Governments than you have. You have also shuffled the goalposts somewhat. Childcare from 3 was out in place long ago. That for 2 year olds is new but came after big roll-backs in Sure Start and the end of tax free childcare vouchers. The current system is underfunded: BLOG: Why 30 hours free childcare isn’t really ‘free’ The new proposals extend this problem: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-64985069.amp That's why I said 'uplift in early years'. I wouldn't need to be so aggressive I you could read, I haven't moved the goalposts at all. BTW, of course 'free' isn't really FREE, everyone knows that. Early YearS childcare was out in place by the Labour party. That's how it was launched at the time with Sure Start. Adding one more year (singular) to a system that is not functioning now is a great aspiration but is not delivering anything real, especially after it comes after rolling back many of the benefits that existed. I gave you the search term. Don't blame me for your reaction. I didn't provoke you in any way whatsoever. Do you struggle with the word uplift? Where did I actually start? "Removed then reintroduced after finding it was a disaster is not really an achievement." It's an "uplift" if they hadn't rolled something back and if the benefit was actually functioning properly. Neither is the case. That's the point that I have made. You obsess about the definition of a word if you wish. The Tories never removed free childcare. They took money from the SureStart budget to pay for 3yo and then uplifted that to include 2yo. I can obsess over a word because that's the word I used. You can try spin it all you like but there's really nothing to spin. Do yourself a favour on this one mate. So, they rearranged the deckchairs. The "free" childcare "uplift" is underfunded and not functioning. Is that the case or not? I don't need to "try" to do anything. You have one reference. You can find plenty more yourself. Again, I have provided more actual positives from this current Conservative government in this thread than you have managed to. I will argue the bogus ones. Did the Tories/LibDems introduce free pre-school places for most 3 year olds? Yes, they did. Did the Tories then extend this to include 2 year olds? Yes, they did. Are the Tories trying to extend it further to include 1 year olds? Yes, they are. Is it not functioning and underfunded? If you say so, I mean your source is a blog piece but cool. This is not a competition on who can provide 'more postives', as much as you'd like to make it so. Refute what I've said, not what you want to argue." I believe that free childcare for all 3 year olds was introduced in 2004. Is your definition of "pre-school" different to that? The Tory government can extend a non-functioning benefit all they wish. It won't make it function any better. That is the point that I have been making. Is that clear, or not? If you chose to look further, which you have not, you will find that there are more childcare organisations with the same view on how the system functions. I have also provided you with the BBC article. Here it is again: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-64985069.amp It's not a competition, I am merely demonstrating that I am perfectly capable of identifying a positive policy from whatever party. I have no interest in denying one. For instance the introduction of the national "living" wage that you brought up was unambiguously good. Unfortunately it followed the disaster that was Universal credit, which doesn't invalidate the living wage but reduced its positive impact at the time. I have given you some new information and reiterated my main points which still stand. | |||
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"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour! Where's the smug smilie? Who me
There’s waaay too much trolling on here to ever be smug. We have at least one person who seems to be an expert in everything, although they lack proper credentials
There's definitely 2 of them "
When they clash popcorn sales rocket! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour! Where's the smug smilie? Who me
There’s waaay too much trolling on here to ever be smug. We have at least one person who seems to be an expert in everything, although they lack proper credentials
There's definitely 2 of them
When they clash popcorn sales rocket!"I'm nominating them for a new TV show. It's called The Fount Of Knowledge.... There's only one 
Independent adjudicator and winner takes the crown forever. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Gordon Brown of the Labour Party sold half the nations gold reserves between 1999-2002, he literally gave it away and it is considered one of the biggest all time blunders in British history …. Never vote Labour, they’d sell your grandma down the river "That is already on the list. The question is what are the achievements of the Tories over last 13yrs? Seems all many people can do is try to convince other people that Labour are worse than Conservatives. Based on the lack of any substantive list of Tory achievements in this thread so far, I don’t see how this holds up? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour! Where's the smug smilie? Who me
There’s waaay too much trolling on here to ever be smug. We have at least one person who seems to be an expert in everything, although they lack proper credentials
There's definitely 2 of them
When they clash popcorn sales rocket!
I'm nominating them for a new TV show. It's called The Fount Of Knowledge.... There's only one
Independent adjudicator and winner takes the crown forever."I wouldn't want to be the editor on that show! There is no subject off limits, everything is known, right down to the 10th decimal place. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour! Where's the smug smilie? Who me
There’s waaay too much trolling on here to ever be smug. We have at least one person who seems to be an expert in everything, although they lack proper credentials
There's definitely 2 of them
When they clash popcorn sales rocket!
I'm nominating them for a new TV show. It's called The Fount Of Knowledge.... There's only one
Independent adjudicator and winner takes the crown forever."Highlander (there can be only one...oh we need sequel and TV series so there can mind if be more than one, for a bit) | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour! Where's the smug smilie? Who me
There’s waaay too much trolling on here to ever be smug. We have at least one person who seems to be an expert in everything, although they lack proper credentials
There's definitely 2 of them
When they clash popcorn sales rocket!
I'm nominating them for a new TV show. It's called The Fount Of Knowledge.... There's only one
Independent adjudicator and winner takes the crown forever.
Highlander (there can be only one...oh we need sequel and TV series so there can mind if be more than one, for a bit) "*mind if? Maybe be more... Not sure what happened there? Or Clash of the TITanS | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour! Where's the smug smilie? Who me
There’s waaay too much trolling on here to ever be smug. We have at least one person who seems to be an expert in everything, although they lack proper credentials
There's definitely 2 of them
When they clash popcorn sales rocket!
I'm nominating them for a new TV show. It's called The Fount Of Knowledge.... There's only one
Independent adjudicator and winner takes the crown forever.
Highlander (there can be only one...oh we need sequel and TV series so there can mind if be more than one, for a bit) "We're not having all those shit spin offs
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour! Where's the smug smilie? Who me
There’s waaay too much trolling on here to ever be smug. We have at least one person who seems to be an expert in everything, although they lack proper credentials
There's definitely 2 of them
When they clash popcorn sales rocket!
I'm nominating them for a new TV show. It's called The Fount Of Knowledge.... There's only one
Independent adjudicator and winner takes the crown forever.
Highlander (there can be only one...oh we need sequel and TV series so there can mind if be more than one, for a bit)
*mind if? Maybe be more...
Not sure what happened there?
Or Clash of the TITanS "Clash of the TITanS is genius | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour! Where's the smug smilie? Who me
There’s waaay too much trolling on here to ever be smug. We have at least one person who seems to be an expert in everything, although they lack proper credentials
There's definitely 2 of them
When they clash popcorn sales rocket!
I'm nominating them for a new TV show. It's called The Fount Of Knowledge.... There's only one
Independent adjudicator and winner takes the crown forever.
Highlander (there can be only one...oh we need sequel and TV series so there can mind if be more than one, for a bit)
We're not having all those shit spin offs
"Judging by just about every thread on here it will be nothing but spin offs! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour! Where's the smug smilie? Who me
There’s waaay too much trolling on here to ever be smug. We have at least one person who seems to be an expert in everything, although they lack proper credentials
There's definitely 2 of them
When they clash popcorn sales rocket!
I'm nominating them for a new TV show. It's called The Fount Of Knowledge.... There's only one
Independent adjudicator and winner takes the crown forever.
Highlander (there can be only one...oh we need sequel and TV series so there can mind if be more than one, for a bit)
We're not having all those shit spin offs
Judging by just about every thread on here it will be nothing but spin offs!"Right, back to topic. You know I'm the topic police don't you | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour! Where's the smug smilie? Who me
There’s waaay too much trolling on here to ever be smug. We have at least one person who seems to be an expert in everything, although they lack proper credentials
There's definitely 2 of them
When they clash popcorn sales rocket!
I'm nominating them for a new TV show. It's called The Fount Of Knowledge.... There's only one
Independent adjudicator and winner takes the crown forever.
Highlander (there can be only one...oh we need sequel and TV series so there can mind if be more than one, for a bit)
*mind if? Maybe be more...
Not sure what happened there?
Or Clash of the TITanS
Clash of the TITanS is genius "Thank you I live to make people smile
Format will be a bit like The Chase. Us mere mortal forumites will be judged and ridiculed by the EIEs (experts in everything) who then duke it out with each other to take their paper crown. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour! Where's the smug smilie? Who me
There’s waaay too much trolling on here to ever be smug. We have at least one person who seems to be an expert in everything, although they lack proper credentials
There's definitely 2 of them
When they clash popcorn sales rocket!
I'm nominating them for a new TV show. It's called The Fount Of Knowledge.... There's only one
Independent adjudicator and winner takes the crown forever.
Highlander (there can be only one...oh we need sequel and TV series so there can mind if be more than one, for a bit)
We're not having all those shit spin offs
Judging by just about every thread on here it will be nothing but spin offs!
Right, back to topic.
You know I'm the topic police don't you "Oh you bagged that job some time back. We also have the primary pedant somewhere? Anyway, hijacked my own thread! Is that allowed? What’s happening with that extensive Tory achievement list? We need Pat back? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour! Where's the smug smilie? Who me
There’s waaay too much trolling on here to ever be smug. We have at least one person who seems to be an expert in everything, although they lack proper credentials
There's definitely 2 of them
When they clash popcorn sales rocket!
I'm nominating them for a new TV show. It's called The Fount Of Knowledge.... There's only one
Independent adjudicator and winner takes the crown forever.
Highlander (there can be only one...oh we need sequel and TV series so there can mind if be more than one, for a bit)
We're not having all those shit spin offs
Judging by just about every thread on here it will be nothing but spin offs!
Right, back to topic.
You know I'm the topic police don't you
Oh you bagged that job some time back. We also have the primary pedant somewhere?
Anyway, hijacked my own thread! Is that allowed?
What’s happening with that extensive Tory achievement list? We need Pat back?"It's allowed, of course it is, doesn't mean I have to like it though
Can we have Pat vs Lionel on an episode? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour! Where's the smug smilie? Who me
There’s waaay too much trolling on here to ever be smug. We have at least one person who seems to be an expert in everything, although they lack proper credentials
There's definitely 2 of them
When they clash popcorn sales rocket!
I'm nominating them for a new TV show. It's called The Fount Of Knowledge.... There's only one
Independent adjudicator and winner takes the crown forever.
Highlander (there can be only one...oh we need sequel and TV series so there can mind if be more than one, for a bit)
We're not having all those shit spin offs
Judging by just about every thread on here it will be nothing but spin offs!
Right, back to topic.
You know I'm the topic police don't you
Oh you bagged that job some time back. We also have the primary pedant somewhere?
Anyway, hijacked my own thread! Is that allowed?
What’s happening with that extensive Tory achievement list? We need Pat back?
It's allowed, of course it is, doesn't mean I have to like it though
Can we have Pat vs Lionel on an episode?"Oh you’re driving straight towards higher ratings! Perhaps we can get Lovehoney to do ad break takeovers (to keep in with the swinger theme) and instead of cash prizes they get membership of a club of their choice? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour! Where's the smug smilie? Who me
There’s waaay too much trolling on here to ever be smug. We have at least one person who seems to be an expert in everything, although they lack proper credentials
There's definitely 2 of them
When they clash popcorn sales rocket!
I'm nominating them for a new TV show. It's called The Fount Of Knowledge.... There's only one
Independent adjudicator and winner takes the crown forever.
Highlander (there can be only one...oh we need sequel and TV series so there can mind if be more than one, for a bit)
We're not having all those shit spin offs
Judging by just about every thread on here it will be nothing but spin offs!
Right, back to topic.
You know I'm the topic police don't you
Oh you bagged that job some time back. We also have the primary pedant somewhere?
Anyway, hijacked my own thread! Is that allowed?
What’s happening with that extensive Tory achievement list? We need Pat back?
It's allowed, of course it is, doesn't mean I have to like it though
Can we have Pat vs Lionel on an episode?
Oh you’re driving straight towards higher ratings! Perhaps we can get Lovehoney to do ad break takeovers (to keep in with the swinger theme) and instead of cash prizes they get membership of a club of their choice? "I'm aiming to break the TV. Or maybe just make people's ears bleed
Maybe Lovehoney could offer restraints and flogger so the winner can punish the loser there and then | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour! Where's the smug smilie? Who me
There’s waaay too much trolling on here to ever be smug. We have at least one person who seems to be an expert in everything, although they lack proper credentials
There's definitely 2 of them
When they clash popcorn sales rocket!
I'm nominating them for a new TV show. It's called The Fount Of Knowledge.... There's only one
Independent adjudicator and winner takes the crown forever.
Highlander (there can be only one...oh we need sequel and TV series so there can mind if be more than one, for a bit)
We're not having all those shit spin offs
Judging by just about every thread on here it will be nothing but spin offs!
Right, back to topic.
You know I'm the topic police don't you
Oh you bagged that job some time back. We also have the primary pedant somewhere?
Anyway, hijacked my own thread! Is that allowed?
What’s happening with that extensive Tory achievement list? We need Pat back?
It's allowed, of course it is, doesn't mean I have to like it though
Can we have Pat vs Lionel on an episode?
Oh you’re driving straight towards higher ratings! Perhaps we can get Lovehoney to do ad break takeovers (to keep in with the swinger theme) and instead of cash prizes they get membership of a club of their choice?
I'm aiming to break the TV. Or maybe just make people's ears bleed
Maybe Lovehoney could offer restraints and flogger so the winner can punish the loser there and then "That is gratuitously off topic but I totally support this diversion. While we are at it, perhaps we restrain and flog all those naughty MPs. As a total aside, back in the 00s I was a regular at Club Rub. There was a Tory MP who was a regular but was fully masked up to retain some discretion. Which was just as well when you saw what got done to him!!!! Anyway, where’s the list of Tory achievements over last 13 yrs??????????? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour! Where's the smug smilie? Who me
There’s waaay too much trolling on here to ever be smug. We have at least one person who seems to be an expert in everything, although they lack proper credentials
There's definitely 2 of them
When they clash popcorn sales rocket!
I'm nominating them for a new TV show. It's called The Fount Of Knowledge.... There's only one
Independent adjudicator and winner takes the crown forever.
Highlander (there can be only one...oh we need sequel and TV series so there can mind if be more than one, for a bit)
We're not having all those shit spin offs
Judging by just about every thread on here it will be nothing but spin offs!
Right, back to topic.
You know I'm the topic police don't you
Oh you bagged that job some time back. We also have the primary pedant somewhere?
Anyway, hijacked my own thread! Is that allowed?
What’s happening with that extensive Tory achievement list? We need Pat back?
It's allowed, of course it is, doesn't mean I have to like it though
Can we have Pat vs Lionel on an episode?
Oh you’re driving straight towards higher ratings! Perhaps we can get Lovehoney to do ad break takeovers (to keep in with the swinger theme) and instead of cash prizes they get membership of a club of their choice?
I'm aiming to break the TV. Or maybe just make people's ears bleed
Maybe Lovehoney could offer restraints and flogger so the winner can punish the loser there and then
That is gratuitously off topic but I totally support this diversion.
While we are at it, perhaps we restrain and flog all those naughty MPs.
As a total aside, back in the 00s I was a regular at Club Rub. There was a Tory MP who was a regular but was fully masked up to retain some discretion. Which was just as well when you saw what got done to him!!!!
Anyway, where’s the list of Tory achievements over last 13 yrs???????????"Same sex marriage | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour! Where's the smug smilie? Who me
There’s waaay too much trolling on here to ever be smug. We have at least one person who seems to be an expert in everything, although they lack proper credentials
There's definitely 2 of them
When they clash popcorn sales rocket!
I'm nominating them for a new TV show. It's called The Fount Of Knowledge.... There's only one
Independent adjudicator and winner takes the crown forever.
Highlander (there can be only one...oh we need sequel and TV series so there can mind if be more than one, for a bit)
We're not having all those shit spin offs
Judging by just about every thread on here it will be nothing but spin offs!
Right, back to topic.
You know I'm the topic police don't you
Oh you bagged that job some time back. We also have the primary pedant somewhere?
Anyway, hijacked my own thread! Is that allowed?
What’s happening with that extensive Tory achievement list? We need Pat back?
It's allowed, of course it is, doesn't mean I have to like it though
Can we have Pat vs Lionel on an episode?
Oh you’re driving straight towards higher ratings! Perhaps we can get Lovehoney to do ad break takeovers (to keep in with the swinger theme) and instead of cash prizes they get membership of a club of their choice?
I'm aiming to break the TV. Or maybe just make people's ears bleed
Maybe Lovehoney could offer restraints and flogger so the winner can punish the loser there and then
That is gratuitously off topic but I totally support this diversion.
While we are at it, perhaps we restrain and flog all those naughty MPs.
As a total aside, back in the 00s I was a regular at Club Rub. There was a Tory MP who was a regular but was fully masked up to retain some discretion. Which was just as well when you saw what got done to him!!!!
Anyway, where’s the list of Tory achievements over last 13 yrs???????????
Same sex marriage "Can they take credit for something the Lib Dems did, that most of them voted against? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour! Where's the smug smilie? Who me
There’s waaay too much trolling on here to ever be smug. We have at least one person who seems to be an expert in everything, although they lack proper credentials
There's definitely 2 of them
When they clash popcorn sales rocket!
I'm nominating them for a new TV show. It's called The Fount Of Knowledge.... There's only one
Independent adjudicator and winner takes the crown forever.
Highlander (there can be only one...oh we need sequel and TV series so there can mind if be more than one, for a bit)
We're not having all those shit spin offs
Judging by just about every thread on here it will be nothing but spin offs!
Right, back to topic.
You know I'm the topic police don't you
Oh you bagged that job some time back. We also have the primary pedant somewhere?
Anyway, hijacked my own thread! Is that allowed?
What’s happening with that extensive Tory achievement list? We need Pat back?
It's allowed, of course it is, doesn't mean I have to like it though
Can we have Pat vs Lionel on an episode?
Oh you’re driving straight towards higher ratings! Perhaps we can get Lovehoney to do ad break takeovers (to keep in with the swinger theme) and instead of cash prizes they get membership of a club of their choice?
I'm aiming to break the TV. Or maybe just make people's ears bleed
Maybe Lovehoney could offer restraints and flogger so the winner can punish the loser there and then
That is gratuitously off topic but I totally support this diversion.
While we are at it, perhaps we restrain and flog all those naughty MPs.
As a total aside, back in the 00s I was a regular at Club Rub. There was a Tory MP who was a regular but was fully masked up to retain some discretion. Which was just as well when you saw what got done to him!!!!
Anyway, where’s the list of Tory achievements over last 13 yrs???????????
Same sex marriage
Can they take credit for something the Lib Dems did, that most of them voted against?"Probably not, it was the only thing I could think off | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour! Where's the smug smilie? Who me
There’s waaay too much trolling on here to ever be smug. We have at least one person who seems to be an expert in everything, although they lack proper credentials
There's definitely 2 of them
When they clash popcorn sales rocket!
I'm nominating them for a new TV show. It's called The Fount Of Knowledge.... There's only one
Independent adjudicator and winner takes the crown forever.
Highlander (there can be only one...oh we need sequel and TV series so there can mind if be more than one, for a bit)
We're not having all those shit spin offs
Judging by just about every thread on here it will be nothing but spin offs!
Right, back to topic.
You know I'm the topic police don't you
Oh you bagged that job some time back. We also have the primary pedant somewhere?
Anyway, hijacked my own thread! Is that allowed?
What’s happening with that extensive Tory achievement list? We need Pat back?
It's allowed, of course it is, doesn't mean I have to like it though
Can we have Pat vs Lionel on an episode?
Oh you’re driving straight towards higher ratings! Perhaps we can get Lovehoney to do ad break takeovers (to keep in with the swinger theme) and instead of cash prizes they get membership of a club of their choice?
I'm aiming to break the TV. Or maybe just make people's ears bleed
Maybe Lovehoney could offer restraints and flogger so the winner can punish the loser there and then
That is gratuitously off topic but I totally support this diversion.
While we are at it, perhaps we restrain and flog all those naughty MPs.
As a total aside, back in the 00s I was a regular at Club Rub. There was a Tory MP who was a regular but was fully masked up to retain some discretion. Which was just as well when you saw what got done to him!!!!
Anyway, where’s the list of Tory achievements over last 13 yrs???????????
Same sex marriage
Can they take credit for something the Lib Dems did, that most of them voted against?"Whilst there was over 100 Tory MPs who voted against Gay Marriage, most is a bit if a stretch don't you think? MPs from all parties voted against or abstained from voting ob the Gay Marriage Bill. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour! Where's the smug smilie? Who me
There’s waaay too much trolling on here to ever be smug. We have at least one person who seems to be an expert in everything, although they lack proper credentials
There's definitely 2 of them
When they clash popcorn sales rocket!
I'm nominating them for a new TV show. It's called The Fount Of Knowledge.... There's only one
Independent adjudicator and winner takes the crown forever.
Highlander (there can be only one...oh we need sequel and TV series so there can mind if be more than one, for a bit)
We're not having all those shit spin offs
Judging by just about every thread on here it will be nothing but spin offs!
Right, back to topic.
You know I'm the topic police don't you
Oh you bagged that job some time back. We also have the primary pedant somewhere?
Anyway, hijacked my own thread! Is that allowed?
What’s happening with that extensive Tory achievement list? We need Pat back?
It's allowed, of course it is, doesn't mean I have to like it though
Can we have Pat vs Lionel on an episode?
Oh you’re driving straight towards higher ratings! Perhaps we can get Lovehoney to do ad break takeovers (to keep in with the swinger theme) and instead of cash prizes they get membership of a club of their choice?
I'm aiming to break the TV. Or maybe just make people's ears bleed
Maybe Lovehoney could offer restraints and flogger so the winner can punish the loser there and then
That is gratuitously off topic but I totally support this diversion.
While we are at it, perhaps we restrain and flog all those naughty MPs.
As a total aside, back in the 00s I was a regular at Club Rub. There was a Tory MP who was a regular but was fully masked up to retain some discretion. Which was just as well when you saw what got done to him!!!!
Anyway, where’s the list of Tory achievements over last 13 yrs???????????
Same sex marriage
Can they take credit for something the Lib Dems did, that most of them voted against?
Whilst there was over 100 Tory MPs who voted against Gay Marriage, most is a bit if a stretch don't you think?
MPs from all parties voted against or abstained from voting ob the Gay Marriage Bill."I was misinformed then. Still if so many of them voted against it, and it was not proposed by them, can the Tories take the credit? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour! Where's the smug smilie? Who me
There’s waaay too much trolling on here to ever be smug. We have at least one person who seems to be an expert in everything, although they lack proper credentials
There's definitely 2 of them
When they clash popcorn sales rocket!
I'm nominating them for a new TV show. It's called The Fount Of Knowledge.... There's only one
Independent adjudicator and winner takes the crown forever.
Highlander (there can be only one...oh we need sequel and TV series so there can mind if be more than one, for a bit)
We're not having all those shit spin offs
Judging by just about every thread on here it will be nothing but spin offs!
Right, back to topic.
You know I'm the topic police don't you
Oh you bagged that job some time back. We also have the primary pedant somewhere?
Anyway, hijacked my own thread! Is that allowed?
What’s happening with that extensive Tory achievement list? We need Pat back?
It's allowed, of course it is, doesn't mean I have to like it though
Can we have Pat vs Lionel on an episode?
Oh you’re driving straight towards higher ratings! Perhaps we can get Lovehoney to do ad break takeovers (to keep in with the swinger theme) and instead of cash prizes they get membership of a club of their choice?
I'm aiming to break the TV. Or maybe just make people's ears bleed
Maybe Lovehoney could offer restraints and flogger so the winner can punish the loser there and then
That is gratuitously off topic but I totally support this diversion.
While we are at it, perhaps we restrain and flog all those naughty MPs.
As a total aside, back in the 00s I was a regular at Club Rub. There was a Tory MP who was a regular but was fully masked up to retain some discretion. Which was just as well when you saw what got done to him!!!!
Anyway, where’s the list of Tory achievements over last 13 yrs???????????
Same sex marriage
Can they take credit for something the Lib Dems did, that most of them voted against?
Whilst there was over 100 Tory MPs who voted against Gay Marriage, most is a bit if a stretch don't you think?
MPs from all parties voted against or abstained from voting ob the Gay Marriage Bill.
I was misinformed then.
Still if so many of them voted against it, and it was not proposed by them, can the Tories take the credit?"More tories 134 , voted against the bill then voted for it, 126 217 labour voted for, 22 against 44 Lib Dem’s, 4 against | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour! Where's the smug smilie? Who me
There’s waaay too much trolling on here to ever be smug. We have at least one person who seems to be an expert in everything, although they lack proper credentials
There's definitely 2 of them
When they clash popcorn sales rocket!
I'm nominating them for a new TV show. It's called The Fount Of Knowledge.... There's only one
Independent adjudicator and winner takes the crown forever.
Highlander (there can be only one...oh we need sequel and TV series so there can mind if be more than one, for a bit)
We're not having all those shit spin offs
Judging by just about every thread on here it will be nothing but spin offs!
Right, back to topic.
You know I'm the topic police don't you
Oh you bagged that job some time back. We also have the primary pedant somewhere?
Anyway, hijacked my own thread! Is that allowed?
What’s happening with that extensive Tory achievement list? We need Pat back?
It's allowed, of course it is, doesn't mean I have to like it though
Can we have Pat vs Lionel on an episode?
Oh you’re driving straight towards higher ratings! Perhaps we can get Lovehoney to do ad break takeovers (to keep in with the swinger theme) and instead of cash prizes they get membership of a club of their choice?
I'm aiming to break the TV. Or maybe just make people's ears bleed
Maybe Lovehoney could offer restraints and flogger so the winner can punish the loser there and then
That is gratuitously off topic but I totally support this diversion.
While we are at it, perhaps we restrain and flog all those naughty MPs.
As a total aside, back in the 00s I was a regular at Club Rub. There was a Tory MP who was a regular but was fully masked up to retain some discretion. Which was just as well when you saw what got done to him!!!!
Anyway, where’s the list of Tory achievements over last 13 yrs???????????
Same sex marriage
Can they take credit for something the Lib Dems did, that most of them voted against?
Whilst there was over 100 Tory MPs who voted against Gay Marriage, most is a bit if a stretch don't you think?
MPs from all parties voted against or abstained from voting ob the Gay Marriage Bill.
I was misinformed then.
Still if so many of them voted against it, and it was not proposed by them, can the Tories take the credit?"You better tell Easy, he's the one who gave them credit for it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour! Where's the smug smilie? Who me
There’s waaay too much trolling on here to ever be smug. We have at least one person who seems to be an expert in everything, although they lack proper credentials
There's definitely 2 of them
When they clash popcorn sales rocket!
I'm nominating them for a new TV show. It's called The Fount Of Knowledge.... There's only one
Independent adjudicator and winner takes the crown forever.
Highlander (there can be only one...oh we need sequel and TV series so there can mind if be more than one, for a bit)
We're not having all those shit spin offs
Judging by just about every thread on here it will be nothing but spin offs!
Right, back to topic.
You know I'm the topic police don't you
Oh you bagged that job some time back. We also have the primary pedant somewhere?
Anyway, hijacked my own thread! Is that allowed?
What’s happening with that extensive Tory achievement list? We need Pat back?
It's allowed, of course it is, doesn't mean I have to like it though
Can we have Pat vs Lionel on an episode?
Oh you’re driving straight towards higher ratings! Perhaps we can get Lovehoney to do ad break takeovers (to keep in with the swinger theme) and instead of cash prizes they get membership of a club of their choice?
I'm aiming to break the TV. Or maybe just make people's ears bleed
Maybe Lovehoney could offer restraints and flogger so the winner can punish the loser there and then
That is gratuitously off topic but I totally support this diversion.
While we are at it, perhaps we restrain and flog all those naughty MPs.
As a total aside, back in the 00s I was a regular at Club Rub. There was a Tory MP who was a regular but was fully masked up to retain some discretion. Which was just as well when you saw what got done to him!!!!
Anyway, where’s the list of Tory achievements over last 13 yrs???????????
Same sex marriage
Can they take credit for something the Lib Dems did, that most of them voted against?
Whilst there was over 100 Tory MPs who voted against Gay Marriage, most is a bit if a stretch don't you think?
MPs from all parties voted against or abstained from voting ob the Gay Marriage Bill.
I was misinformed then.
Still if so many of them voted against it, and it was not proposed by them, can the Tories take the credit?
You better tell Easy, he's the one who gave them credit for it."I haven't differentiated in this thread. It was also in the Conservative manifesto and actively supported by the Prime Minister. Why you needed to have a dig at me is your business, I guess. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour! Where's the smug smilie? Who me
There’s waaay too much trolling on here to ever be smug. We have at least one person who seems to be an expert in everything, although they lack proper credentials
There's definitely 2 of them
When they clash popcorn sales rocket!
I'm nominating them for a new TV show. It's called The Fount Of Knowledge.... There's only one
Independent adjudicator and winner takes the crown forever.
Highlander (there can be only one...oh we need sequel and TV series so there can mind if be more than one, for a bit)
We're not having all those shit spin offs
Judging by just about every thread on here it will be nothing but spin offs!
Right, back to topic.
You know I'm the topic police don't you
Oh you bagged that job some time back. We also have the primary pedant somewhere?
Anyway, hijacked my own thread! Is that allowed?
What’s happening with that extensive Tory achievement list? We need Pat back?
It's allowed, of course it is, doesn't mean I have to like it though
Can we have Pat vs Lionel on an episode?
Oh you’re driving straight towards higher ratings! Perhaps we can get Lovehoney to do ad break takeovers (to keep in with the swinger theme) and instead of cash prizes they get membership of a club of their choice?
I'm aiming to break the TV. Or maybe just make people's ears bleed
Maybe Lovehoney could offer restraints and flogger so the winner can punish the loser there and then
That is gratuitously off topic but I totally support this diversion.
While we are at it, perhaps we restrain and flog all those naughty MPs.
As a total aside, back in the 00s I was a regular at Club Rub. There was a Tory MP who was a regular but was fully masked up to retain some discretion. Which was just as well when you saw what got done to him!!!!
Anyway, where’s the list of Tory achievements over last 13 yrs???????????
Same sex marriage
Can they take credit for something the Lib Dems did, that most of them voted against?
Whilst there was over 100 Tory MPs who voted against Gay Marriage, most is a bit if a stretch don't you think?
MPs from all parties voted against or abstained from voting ob the Gay Marriage Bill.
I was misinformed then.
Still if so many of them voted against it, and it was not proposed by them, can the Tories take the credit?
You better tell Easy, he's the one who gave them credit for it.
I haven't differentiated in this thread. It was also in the Conservative manifesto and actively supported by the Prime Minister.
Why you needed to have a dig at me is your business, I guess."It wasn't a dig, the poster said the Tories can't get credit for it. You're the one who gave them credit. Ergo, he needs to tell you. Fucking chill bro. My comment was aimed at the poster as he's arguing with people he deems to be 'on the opposite side' rather than you who gave the credit, imo because you're 'on his side'. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour! Where's the smug smilie? Who me
There’s waaay too much trolling on here to ever be smug. We have at least one person who seems to be an expert in everything, although they lack proper credentials
There's definitely 2 of them
When they clash popcorn sales rocket!
I'm nominating them for a new TV show. It's called The Fount Of Knowledge.... There's only one
Independent adjudicator and winner takes the crown forever.
Highlander (there can be only one...oh we need sequel and TV series so there can mind if be more than one, for a bit)
We're not having all those shit spin offs
Judging by just about every thread on here it will be nothing but spin offs!
Right, back to topic.
You know I'm the topic police don't you
Oh you bagged that job some time back. We also have the primary pedant somewhere?
Anyway, hijacked my own thread! Is that allowed?
What’s happening with that extensive Tory achievement list? We need Pat back?
It's allowed, of course it is, doesn't mean I have to like it though
Can we have Pat vs Lionel on an episode?
Oh you’re driving straight towards higher ratings! Perhaps we can get Lovehoney to do ad break takeovers (to keep in with the swinger theme) and instead of cash prizes they get membership of a club of their choice?
I'm aiming to break the TV. Or maybe just make people's ears bleed
Maybe Lovehoney could offer restraints and flogger so the winner can punish the loser there and then
That is gratuitously off topic but I totally support this diversion.
While we are at it, perhaps we restrain and flog all those naughty MPs.
As a total aside, back in the 00s I was a regular at Club Rub. There was a Tory MP who was a regular but was fully masked up to retain some discretion. Which was just as well when you saw what got done to him!!!!
Anyway, where’s the list of Tory achievements over last 13 yrs???????????
Same sex marriage
Can they take credit for something the Lib Dems did, that most of them voted against?
Whilst there was over 100 Tory MPs who voted against Gay Marriage, most is a bit if a stretch don't you think?
MPs from all parties voted against or abstained from voting ob the Gay Marriage Bill.
I was misinformed then.
Still if so many of them voted against it, and it was not proposed by them, can the Tories take the credit?
You better tell Easy, he's the one who gave them credit for it.
I haven't differentiated in this thread. It was also in the Conservative manifesto and actively supported by the Prime Minister.
Why you needed to have a dig at me is your business, I guess.
It wasn't a dig, the poster said the Tories can't get credit for it. You're the one who gave them credit. Ergo, he needs to tell you. Fucking chill bro.
My comment was aimed at the poster as he's arguing with people he deems to be 'on the opposite side' rather than you who gave the credit, imo because you're 'on his side'."I didn't say they "can't get credit for it". I questioned if it was appropriate to give them the credit. I don't deem anyone to be 'on the other side'. I prefer when you argue points instead of having pops at me which seem increasingly frequent. I'll leave you to it on this one. Have fun. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour! Where's the smug smilie? Who me
There’s waaay too much trolling on here to ever be smug. We have at least one person who seems to be an expert in everything, although they lack proper credentials
There's definitely 2 of them
When they clash popcorn sales rocket!
I'm nominating them for a new TV show. It's called The Fount Of Knowledge.... There's only one
Independent adjudicator and winner takes the crown forever.
Highlander (there can be only one...oh we need sequel and TV series so there can mind if be more than one, for a bit)
We're not having all those shit spin offs
Judging by just about every thread on here it will be nothing but spin offs!
Right, back to topic.
You know I'm the topic police don't you
Oh you bagged that job some time back. We also have the primary pedant somewhere?
Anyway, hijacked my own thread! Is that allowed?
What’s happening with that extensive Tory achievement list? We need Pat back?
It's allowed, of course it is, doesn't mean I have to like it though
Can we have Pat vs Lionel on an episode?
Oh you’re driving straight towards higher ratings! Perhaps we can get Lovehoney to do ad break takeovers (to keep in with the swinger theme) and instead of cash prizes they get membership of a club of their choice?
I'm aiming to break the TV. Or maybe just make people's ears bleed
Maybe Lovehoney could offer restraints and flogger so the winner can punish the loser there and then
That is gratuitously off topic but I totally support this diversion.
While we are at it, perhaps we restrain and flog all those naughty MPs.
As a total aside, back in the 00s I was a regular at Club Rub. There was a Tory MP who was a regular but was fully masked up to retain some discretion. Which was just as well when you saw what got done to him!!!!
Anyway, where’s the list of Tory achievements over last 13 yrs???????????
Same sex marriage
Can they take credit for something the Lib Dems did, that most of them voted against?
Whilst there was over 100 Tory MPs who voted against Gay Marriage, most is a bit if a stretch don't you think?
MPs from all parties voted against or abstained from voting ob the Gay Marriage Bill.
I was misinformed then.
Still if so many of them voted against it, and it was not proposed by them, can the Tories take the credit?
You better tell Easy, he's the one who gave them credit for it.
I haven't differentiated in this thread. It was also in the Conservative manifesto and actively supported by the Prime Minister.
Why you needed to have a dig at me is your business, I guess.
It wasn't a dig, the poster said the Tories can't get credit for it. You're the one who gave them credit. Ergo, he needs to tell you. Fucking chill bro.
My comment was aimed at the poster as he's arguing with people he deems to be 'on the opposite side' rather than you who gave the credit, imo because you're 'on his side'.
I didn't say they "can't get credit for it". I questioned if it was appropriate to give them the credit.
I don't deem anyone to be 'on the other side'.
I prefer when you argue points instead of having pops at me which seem increasingly frequent.
I'll leave you to it on this one.
Have fun."I prefer it when you get the correct information before posting, but hey, we can't all get what we prefer can we? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Possibly but we don't know that for certain if a no deal of crashed the economy. The thing I don't get is why would anyine accept a deal that only benefits one side if its a terrible deal to the other side? Even Boris himself said it was a bad deal. The way I see it is No Deal in any scenario trumps a bad deal." Was Alexander’s deal a good deal? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Possibly but we don't know that for certain if a no deal of crashed the economy. The thing I don't get is why would anyine accept a deal that only benefits one side if its a terrible deal to the other side? Even Boris himself said it was a bad deal. The way I see it is No Deal in any scenario trumps a bad deal." So the only thing that matters is brexit and the nature of the deal? What else have the Tories achieved in 13yrs? The list is so far very small!!!  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Possibly but we don't know that for certain if a no deal of crashed the economy. The thing I don't get is why would anyine accept a deal that only benefits one side if its a terrible deal to the other side? Even Boris himself said it was a bad deal. The way I see it is No Deal in any scenario trumps a bad deal. Was Alexander’s deal a good deal? "No and in fact 95% of that deal was negotiated by Theresa May, he just tweaked it with the Backstop and Northern Protocol. There was no chance the EU was going to renegoiate the Withdrawel Agreement from scratch. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Possibly but we don't know that for certain if a no deal of crashed the economy. The thing I don't get is why would anyine accept a deal that only benefits one side if its a terrible deal to the other side? Even Boris himself said it was a bad deal. The way I see it is No Deal in any scenario trumps a bad deal. Was Alexander’s deal a good deal? No and in fact 95% of that deal was negotiated by Theresa May, he just tweaked it with the Backstop and Northern Protocol. There was no chance the EU was going to renegoiate the Withdrawel Agreement from scratch."Ah, well people got the Brexit they voted for | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Possibly but we don't know that for certain if a no deal of crashed the economy. The thing I don't get is why would anyine accept a deal that only benefits one side if its a terrible deal to the other side? Even Boris himself said it was a bad deal. The way I see it is No Deal in any scenario trumps a bad deal. Was Alexander’s deal a good deal? No and in fact 95% of that deal was negotiated by Theresa May, he just tweaked it with the Backstop and Northern Protocol. There was no chance the EU was going to renegoiate the Withdrawel Agreement from scratch.
Ah, well people got the Brexit they voted for "Which was what? You keep repeating this one-liner so go on what was the brexit people voted for? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour! Where's the smug smilie? Who me
There’s waaay too much trolling on here to ever be smug. We have at least one person who seems to be an expert in everything, although they lack proper credentials
There's definitely 2 of them
When they clash popcorn sales rocket!
I'm nominating them for a new TV show. It's called The Fount Of Knowledge.... There's only one
Independent adjudicator and winner takes the crown forever.
Highlander (there can be only one...oh we need sequel and TV series so there can mind if be more than one, for a bit)
We're not having all those shit spin offs
Judging by just about every thread on here it will be nothing but spin offs!
Right, back to topic.
You know I'm the topic police don't you
Oh you bagged that job some time back. We also have the primary pedant somewhere?
Anyway, hijacked my own thread! Is that allowed?
What’s happening with that extensive Tory achievement list? We need Pat back?
It's allowed, of course it is, doesn't mean I have to like it though
Can we have Pat vs Lionel on an episode?
Oh you’re driving straight towards higher ratings! Perhaps we can get Lovehoney to do ad break takeovers (to keep in with the swinger theme) and instead of cash prizes they get membership of a club of their choice?
I'm aiming to break the TV. Or maybe just make people's ears bleed
Maybe Lovehoney could offer restraints and flogger so the winner can punish the loser there and then
That is gratuitously off topic but I totally support this diversion.
While we are at it, perhaps we restrain and flog all those naughty MPs.
As a total aside, back in the 00s I was a regular at Club Rub. There was a Tory MP who was a regular but was fully masked up to retain some discretion. Which was just as well when you saw what got done to him!!!!
Anyway, where’s the list of Tory achievements over last 13 yrs???????????
Same sex marriage
Can they take credit for something the Lib Dems did, that most of them voted against?
Whilst there was over 100 Tory MPs who voted against Gay Marriage, most is a bit if a stretch don't you think?
MPs from all parties voted against or abstained from voting ob the Gay Marriage Bill.
I was misinformed then.
Still if so many of them voted against it, and it was not proposed by them, can the Tories take the credit?
You better tell Easy, he's the one who gave them credit for it.
I haven't differentiated in this thread. It was also in the Conservative manifesto and actively supported by the Prime Minister.
Why you needed to have a dig at me is your business, I guess.
It wasn't a dig, the poster said the Tories can't get credit for it. You're the one who gave them credit. Ergo, he needs to tell you. Fucking chill bro.
My comment was aimed at the poster as he's arguing with people he deems to be 'on the opposite side' rather than you who gave the credit, imo because you're 'on his side'."You do seem to be all about "sides" regardless of what is written. Why not actually refer to what was written so it has some relevance rather than to me? You will carry on being personal anyway so | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Possibly but we don't know that for certain if a no deal of crashed the economy. The thing I don't get is why would anyine accept a deal that only benefits one side if its a terrible deal to the other side? Even Boris himself said it was a bad deal. The way I see it is No Deal in any scenario trumps a bad deal. Was Alexander’s deal a good deal? No and in fact 95% of that deal was negotiated by Theresa May, he just tweaked it with the Backstop and Northern Protocol. There was no chance the EU was going to renegoiate the Withdrawel Agreement from scratch.
Ah, well people got the Brexit they voted for
Which was what? You keep repeating this one-liner so go on what was the brexit people voted for? "That is the point, isn't it? What was the Brexit that anyone voted for? You said that we left the EU and that was all that anyone was asked. Why don't they seem to want it anymore? Why does Garage think that Brexit has failed? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour! Where's the smug smilie? Who me
There’s waaay too much trolling on here to ever be smug. We have at least one person who seems to be an expert in everything, although they lack proper credentials
There's definitely 2 of them
When they clash popcorn sales rocket!
I'm nominating them for a new TV show. It's called The Fount Of Knowledge.... There's only one
Independent adjudicator and winner takes the crown forever.
Highlander (there can be only one...oh we need sequel and TV series so there can mind if be more than one, for a bit)
We're not having all those shit spin offs
Judging by just about every thread on here it will be nothing but spin offs!
Right, back to topic.
You know I'm the topic police don't you
Oh you bagged that job some time back. We also have the primary pedant somewhere?
Anyway, hijacked my own thread! Is that allowed?
What’s happening with that extensive Tory achievement list? We need Pat back?
It's allowed, of course it is, doesn't mean I have to like it though
Can we have Pat vs Lionel on an episode?
Oh you’re driving straight towards higher ratings! Perhaps we can get Lovehoney to do ad break takeovers (to keep in with the swinger theme) and instead of cash prizes they get membership of a club of their choice?
I'm aiming to break the TV. Or maybe just make people's ears bleed
Maybe Lovehoney could offer restraints and flogger so the winner can punish the loser there and then
That is gratuitously off topic but I totally support this diversion.
While we are at it, perhaps we restrain and flog all those naughty MPs.
As a total aside, back in the 00s I was a regular at Club Rub. There was a Tory MP who was a regular but was fully masked up to retain some discretion. Which was just as well when you saw what got done to him!!!!
Anyway, where’s the list of Tory achievements over last 13 yrs???????????
Same sex marriage
Can they take credit for something the Lib Dems did, that most of them voted against?
Whilst there was over 100 Tory MPs who voted against Gay Marriage, most is a bit if a stretch don't you think?
MPs from all parties voted against or abstained from voting ob the Gay Marriage Bill.
I was misinformed then.
Still if so many of them voted against it, and it was not proposed by them, can the Tories take the credit?
You better tell Easy, he's the one who gave them credit for it.
I haven't differentiated in this thread. It was also in the Conservative manifesto and actively supported by the Prime Minister.
Why you needed to have a dig at me is your business, I guess.
It wasn't a dig, the poster said the Tories can't get credit for it. You're the one who gave them credit. Ergo, he needs to tell you. Fucking chill bro.
My comment was aimed at the poster as he's arguing with people he deems to be 'on the opposite side' rather than you who gave the credit, imo because you're 'on his side'.
You do seem to be all about "sides" regardless of what is written.
Why not actually refer to what was written so it has some relevance rather than to me?
You will carry on being personal anyway so "I've already told you, I wasn't writing to you, FFS, it's not hard to read. I wasn't taking any side, just pointing the poster to who gave the credit, rather than who he was directing his post at. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Possibly but we don't know that for certain if a no deal of crashed the economy. The thing I don't get is why would anyine accept a deal that only benefits one side if its a terrible deal to the other side? Even Boris himself said it was a bad deal. The way I see it is No Deal in any scenario trumps a bad deal." No deal would have been worse than the bad deal that you seem to acknowledge that we have. It doesn't only benefit one side, but we turned out not to " hold all the cards" so we're not in the stronger bargaining position. Have you information to indicate otherwise? This is probably a separate thread (although done before). | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Possibly but we don't know that for certain if a no deal of crashed the economy. The thing I don't get is why would anyine accept a deal that only benefits one side if its a terrible deal to the other side? Even Boris himself said it was a bad deal. The way I see it is No Deal in any scenario trumps a bad deal. Was Alexander’s deal a good deal? No and in fact 95% of that deal was negotiated by Theresa May, he just tweaked it with the Backstop and Northern Protocol. There was no chance the EU was going to renegoiate the Withdrawel Agreement from scratch.
Ah, well people got the Brexit they voted for
Which was what? You keep repeating this one-liner so go on what was the brexit people voted for? "The one they got | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuck me! I start a thread with a singular purpose. To list out the achievements of 13 years of Tory led govt. To stimulate that discussion there was a list of achievements by New Labour over the same time period. So far we have just had posters resorting to fighting over the usual shit. Some cursory attempts at listing some achievements (though let’s be honest, unless it represents a net improvement over where things were in 2010 then it simply doesn’t count - rolling back them reinstating is NOT an achievement). So based on this thread so far it seems nobody can pull together a comparable list with the achievements of New Labour! Where's the smug smilie? Who me
There’s waaay too much trolling on here to ever be smug. We have at least one person who seems to be an expert in everything, although they lack proper credentials
There's definitely 2 of them
When they clash popcorn sales rocket!
I'm nominating them for a new TV show. It's called The Fount Of Knowledge.... There's only one
Independent adjudicator and winner takes the crown forever.
Highlander (there can be only one...oh we need sequel and TV series so there can mind if be more than one, for a bit)
We're not having all those shit spin offs
Judging by just about every thread on here it will be nothing but spin offs!
Right, back to topic.
You know I'm the topic police don't you
Oh you bagged that job some time back. We also have the primary pedant somewhere?
Anyway, hijacked my own thread! Is that allowed?
What’s happening with that extensive Tory achievement list? We need Pat back?
It's allowed, of course it is, doesn't mean I have to like it though
Can we have Pat vs Lionel on an episode?
Oh you’re driving straight towards higher ratings! Perhaps we can get Lovehoney to do ad break takeovers (to keep in with the swinger theme) and instead of cash prizes they get membership of a club of their choice?
I'm aiming to break the TV. Or maybe just make people's ears bleed
Maybe Lovehoney could offer restraints and flogger so the winner can punish the loser there and then
That is gratuitously off topic but I totally support this diversion.
While we are at it, perhaps we restrain and flog all those naughty MPs.
As a total aside, back in the 00s I was a regular at Club Rub. There was a Tory MP who was a regular but was fully masked up to retain some discretion. Which was just as well when you saw what got done to him!!!!
Anyway, where’s the list of Tory achievements over last 13 yrs???????????
Same sex marriage
Can they take credit for something the Lib Dems did, that most of them voted against?
Whilst there was over 100 Tory MPs who voted against Gay Marriage, most is a bit if a stretch don't you think?
MPs from all parties voted against or abstained from voting ob the Gay Marriage Bill.
I was misinformed then.
Still if so many of them voted against it, and it was not proposed by them, can the Tories take the credit?
You better tell Easy, he's the one who gave them credit for it.
I haven't differentiated in this thread. It was also in the Conservative manifesto and actively supported by the Prime Minister.
Why you needed to have a dig at me is your business, I guess.
It wasn't a dig, the poster said the Tories can't get credit for it. You're the one who gave them credit. Ergo, he needs to tell you. Fucking chill bro.
My comment was aimed at the poster as he's arguing with people he deems to be 'on the opposite side' rather than you who gave the credit, imo because you're 'on his side'.
You do seem to be all about "sides" regardless of what is written.
Why not actually refer to what was written so it has some relevance rather than to me?
You will carry on being personal anyway so
I've already told you, I wasn't writing to you, FFS, it's not hard to read.
I wasn't taking any side, just pointing the poster to who gave the credit, rather than who he was directing his post at. "You read what you want to, don't you? I didn't say you were "taking sides". I said that you were all "about" sides. Pigeon holing people and labelling them as "lefty" or "Labour". You were writing about me though, both directly and obliquely in a snide way. Your obsession, not mine. Swear as much as you like. I can comment as I wish and certainly when you choose to refer to me. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Possibly but we don't know that for certain if a no deal of crashed the economy. The thing I don't get is why would anyine accept a deal that only benefits one side if its a terrible deal to the other side? Even Boris himself said it was a bad deal. The way I see it is No Deal in any scenario trumps a bad deal. Was Alexander’s deal a good deal? No and in fact 95% of that deal was negotiated by Theresa May, he just tweaked it with the Backstop and Northern Protocol. There was no chance the EU was going to renegoiate the Withdrawel Agreement from scratch.
Ah, well people got the Brexit they voted for
Which was what? You keep repeating this one-liner so go on what was the brexit people voted for?
That is the point, isn't it?
What was the Brexit that anyone voted for?
You said that we left the EU and that was all that anyone was asked.
Why don't they seem to want it anymore?
Why does Garage think that Brexit has failed?"Are you 2 sitting in the same room, sharing a keyboard, you replied in the same style...Strange.... Farage, will always say something has failed if it doesn't give him what he wants. I have seen every slur possible on these forums about Farage including, racist, fascist and bigot. I'm a little confused to why you are now taking note of what he has to say, let me guess when he said something that you liked? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
