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More EU workers needed
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By *deepdive OP Man 44 weeks ago
France / Birmingham |
George Eustice is now telling us that we need more workers from the EU (cherry picking under 35 y.o.).
Of course, this was not due to Brexit but due to Theresa May being a Remainer and not understanding what people actually voted for as Brexit was never about stopping immigration but more to control it.
Amazing how Theresa May singlehandedly made all the Brexit mistakes - didn't she have a cabinet? |
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By (user no longer on site) 43 weeks ago
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"George Eustice is now telling us that we need more workers from the EU (cherry picking under 35 y.o.).
Of course, this was not due to Brexit but due to Theresa May being a Remainer and not understanding what people actually voted for as Brexit was never about stopping immigration but more to control it.
Amazing how Theresa May singlehandedly made all the Brexit mistakes - didn't she have a cabinet?"
I’m further convinced that we live in an elaborate sit-com |
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Here's an idea. Why not motivate a proportion of our own 8.9 mil. economically inactive fellow citizens to fill some jobs? Amongst the advantages : some modest tax revenues, a huge benefits bill saving, less demands on healthcare, schools and housing by migrant workers, national wealth not exported by earnings sent home ........... |
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By *irldnCouple 43 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Here's an idea. Why not motivate a proportion of our own 8.9 mil. economically inactive fellow citizens to fill some jobs? Amongst the advantages : some modest tax revenues, a huge benefits bill saving, less demands on healthcare, schools and housing by migrant workers, national wealth not exported by earnings sent home ........... "
Agree in principle but first question we need to ask is why those people are economically inactive?
What is the “net benefit” to them, ie why should they do it?
How does that 8m+ figure break down? Demographics? Geographic location? Health status? Then can those be mapped to the type of work available and location of that work.
For example, If someone has retired early because they can afford to, why should they be pressured to re-enter the workforce? |
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By *9alMan 43 weeks ago
Bridgend |
"Here's an idea. Why not motivate a proportion of our own 8.9 mil. economically inactive fellow citizens to fill some jobs? Amongst the advantages : some modest tax revenues, a huge benefits bill saving, less demands on healthcare, schools and housing by migrant workers, national wealth not exported by earnings sent home ........... "
I used to work on farms, the benefits systems are not flexable enough if people have a couple of good weeks work they start to lose benefits if the weather changes & they dont earn much for a couple of weeks it takes ages to get the benefits back so casual work does not make them any better off . EU workers often work self employed so do not pay any u k tax |
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"Here's an idea. Why not motivate a proportion of our own 8.9 mil. economically inactive fellow citizens to fill some jobs? Amongst the advantages : some modest tax revenues, a huge benefits bill saving, less demands on healthcare, schools and housing by migrant workers, national wealth not exported by earnings sent home ...........
I used to work on farms, the benefits systems are not flexable enough if people have a couple of good weeks work they start to lose benefits if the weather changes & they dont earn much for a couple of weeks it takes ages to get the benefits back so casual work does not make them any better off . EU workers often work self employed so do not pay any u k tax "
For sure we need to amend employment law and taxes so people can work seasonally and not be penalised. |
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"Here's an idea. Why not motivate a proportion of our own 8.9 mil. economically inactive fellow citizens to fill some jobs? Amongst the advantages : some modest tax revenues, a huge benefits bill saving, less demands on healthcare, schools and housing by migrant workers, national wealth not exported by earnings sent home ...........
Agree in principle but first question we need to ask is why those people are economically inactive?
What is the “net benefit” to them, ie why should they do it?
How does that 8m+ figure break down? Demographics? Geographic location? Health status? Then can those be mapped to the type of work available and location of that work.
For example, If someone has retired early because they can afford to, why should they be pressured to re-enter the workforce?"
This is complicated and there are a host of reasons people don't work including personal health, care of dependants, age etc. Fair enough. But equally there are those who are just lazy and feckless, happy to live off state benefits. As for "why should people work?". Well maybe out of a sense of social responsibility and good citizenship? |
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By (user no longer on site) 43 weeks ago
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"Here's an idea. Why not motivate a proportion of our own 8.9 mil. economically inactive fellow citizens to fill some jobs? Amongst the advantages : some modest tax revenues, a huge benefits bill saving, less demands on healthcare, schools and housing by migrant workers, national wealth not exported by earnings sent home ...........
Agree in principle but first question we need to ask is why those people are economically inactive?
What is the “net benefit” to them, ie why should they do it?
How does that 8m+ figure break down? Demographics? Geographic location? Health status? Then can those be mapped to the type of work available and location of that work.
For example, If someone has retired early because they can afford to, why should they be pressured to re-enter the workforce?
This is complicated and there are a host of reasons people don't work including personal health, care of dependants, age etc. Fair enough. But equally there are those who are just lazy and feckless, happy to live off state benefits. As for "why should people work?". Well maybe out of a sense of social responsibility and good citizenship?"
If you’re going to make a statement like “there are those who are just lazy and feckless, happy to live off state benefits” then you’ll been to be prepared to present the information to back this up.
How many families fall into this category? |
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"Here's an idea. Why not motivate a proportion of our own 8.9 mil. economically inactive fellow citizens to fill some jobs? Amongst the advantages : some modest tax revenues, a huge benefits bill saving, less demands on healthcare, schools and housing by migrant workers, national wealth not exported by earnings sent home ...........
Agree in principle but first question we need to ask is why those people are economically inactive?
What is the “net benefit” to them, ie why should they do it?
How does that 8m+ figure break down? Demographics? Geographic location? Health status? Then can those be mapped to the type of work available and location of that work.
For example, If someone has retired early because they can afford to, why should they be pressured to re-enter the workforce?
This is complicated and there are a host of reasons people don't work including personal health, care of dependants, age etc. Fair enough. But equally there are those who are just lazy and feckless, happy to live off state benefits. As for "why should people work?". Well maybe out of a sense of social responsibility and good citizenship?
If you’re going to make a statement like “there are those who are just lazy and feckless, happy to live off state benefits” then you’ll been to be prepared to present the information to back this up.
How many families fall into this category? "
So are you suggesting in 8.9 mil. economically inactive there's not a sizeable proportion of the lazy & feckless? Of course there are. It's just a question of how many. What would be your estimate? |
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By (user no longer on site) 43 weeks ago
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"Here's an idea. Why not motivate a proportion of our own 8.9 mil. economically inactive fellow citizens to fill some jobs? Amongst the advantages : some modest tax revenues, a huge benefits bill saving, less demands on healthcare, schools and housing by migrant workers, national wealth not exported by earnings sent home ...........
Agree in principle but first question we need to ask is why those people are economically inactive?
What is the “net benefit” to them, ie why should they do it?
How does that 8m+ figure break down? Demographics? Geographic location? Health status? Then can those be mapped to the type of work available and location of that work.
For example, If someone has retired early because they can afford to, why should they be pressured to re-enter the workforce?
This is complicated and there are a host of reasons people don't work including personal health, care of dependants, age etc. Fair enough. But equally there are those who are just lazy and feckless, happy to live off state benefits. As for "why should people work?". Well maybe out of a sense of social responsibility and good citizenship?
If you’re going to make a statement like “there are those who are just lazy and feckless, happy to live off state benefits” then you’ll been to be prepared to present the information to back this up.
How many families fall into this category?
So are you suggesting in 8.9 mil. economically inactive there's not a sizeable proportion of the lazy & feckless? Of course there are. It's just a question of how many. What would be your estimate?"
I’m asking you how many there are, and how much they cost. I presumed you knew because you called them lazy and feckless, after all. |
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By (user no longer on site) 43 weeks ago
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Also the notion of working out of a sense of good citizenship - how many would continue to work if they had a windfall and could afford to comfortable life without work?
If I won big on the lottery I’d do my company the honour of working my notice period, and that’d be about it. |
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"George Eustice is now telling us that we need more workers from the EU (cherry picking under 35 y.o.).
Of course, this was not due to Brexit but due to Theresa May being a Remainer and not understanding what people actually voted for as Brexit was never about stopping immigration but more to control it.
Amazing how Theresa May singlehandedly made all the Brexit mistakes - didn't she have a cabinet?"
George Eustice. People actually voted for this man.
Amazing.  |
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"Also the notion of working out of a sense of good citizenship - how many would continue to work if they had a windfall and could afford to comfortable life without work?
If I won big on the lottery I’d do my company the honour of working my notice period, and that’d be about it. "
OK I've nipped out and counted them, there are 2,765,542. Are you able to disprove with any facts? |
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By *deepdive OP Man 43 weeks ago
France / Birmingham |
"George Eustice is now telling us that we need more workers from the EU (cherry picking under 35 y.o.).
Of course, this was not due to Brexit but due to Theresa May being a Remainer and not understanding what people actually voted for as Brexit was never about stopping immigration but more to control it.
Amazing how Theresa May singlehandedly made all the Brexit mistakes - didn't she have a cabinet?
George Eustice. People actually voted for this man.
Amazing. "
I wonder if Theresa May will also get blamed for not reading the memo about 'sunny uplands' etc.
That would certainly explain a lot of things  |
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"Also the notion of working out of a sense of good citizenship - how many would continue to work if they had a windfall and could afford to comfortable life without work?
If I won big on the lottery I’d do my company the honour of working my notice period, and that’d be about it. "
So would I probably. But what I can say is that in countries I've worked like Netherlands, Denmark, Germany there is a sense of citizenship. It's even a syllabus subject in schools. To be fit, unemployed and dependant on benefits is considered shameful. |
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By *yth11Couple 43 weeks ago
newark |
The UK has a productivity problem but fixing would cost money and time so employer’s take the short term lower cost route if hiring trained labour from overseas.
Manual labour in the UK is often considered min wage only plus the benefit system/tax system does not work well for part time/seasonal jobs so people avoid these jobs.
Then there is problem of bad employer’s such as having to live at the workplace and pay rent to the employer as some agriculture workers are expected. |
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"90k people in prison, just saying
So you happy for a murderer or a rapist let out for a day to work next to you...?"
pretty sure majority aint murderers and rap ists why not make use of the ones who are petty crims that way they can pay towards there bed and board |
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"90k people in prison, just saying
So you happy for a murderer or a rapist let out for a day to work next to you...?pretty sure majority aint murderers and rap ists why not make use of the ones who are petty crims that way they can pay towards there bed and board"
Forced labour, including of prisoners is illegal under the modern sl4very act. |
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By (user no longer on site) 43 weeks ago
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"90k people in prison, just saying
So you happy for a murderer or a rapist let out for a day to work next to you...?pretty sure majority aint murderers and rap ists why not make use of the ones who are petty crims that way they can pay towards there bed and board"
At the end of 2022 we also had 166,000 asylum applicants stuck in limbo who can't work you could put this argument forward for. They would probably be more willing workers has well.
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By *otMe66Man 43 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"90k people in prison, just saying
So you happy for a murderer or a rapist let out for a day to work next to you...?pretty sure majority aint murderers and rap ists why not make use of the ones who are petty crims that way they can pay towards there bed and board
Forced labour, including of prisoners is illegal under the modern sl4very act."
Jeez, what type of labour do you think they would be doing! Working on chain gangs 
There must be work that these criminals can do as part of the rehabilitation, but you go straight into the worst case scenario.
This is what is wrong with society today. |
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By *otMe66Man 43 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"90k people in prison, just saying
So you happy for a murderer or a rapist let out for a day to work next to you...?"
There must be work that these criminals can do as part of the rehabilitation, but you go straight into the worst case scenario.
Leave them sitting in jail doing nothing for hours.... |
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By (user no longer on site) 43 weeks ago
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"90k people in prison, just saying
So you happy for a murderer or a rapist let out for a day to work next to you...?"
An effective prison scheme prioritises rehabilitation over punishment. Another thing we’re terrible at in the U.K, due to swingeing cuts. |
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"90k people in prison, just saying
So you happy for a murderer or a rapist let out for a day to work next to you...?pretty sure majority aint murderers and rap ists why not make use of the ones who are petty crims that way they can pay towards there bed and board
Forced labour, including of prisoners is illegal under the modern sl4very act.
Jeez, what type of labour do you think they would be doing! Working on chain gangs
There must be work that these criminals can do as part of the rehabilitation, but you go straight into the worst case scenario.
This is what is wrong with society today."
No worst case scenario. I'm just giving information. It's not legal to make prisoners work to pay towards "their bed and board".
The rest you've made up, accused me of some stuff, then claimed that this is what's wrong with society today. |
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By (user no longer on site) 43 weeks ago
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"Also the notion of working out of a sense of good citizenship - how many would continue to work if they had a windfall and could afford to comfortable life without work?
If I won big on the lottery I’d do my company the honour of working my notice period, and that’d be about it.
OK I've nipped out and counted them, there are 2,765,542. Are you able to disprove with any facts?"
I’d like to see the data that you collected so we can effectively analyse it  |
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Not seen the story but I assume it's about some sectors that need extra staff. What I don't understand is why EU workers? Surely it should just be workers regardless of they originate if they meet the criteria |
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By (user no longer on site) 43 weeks ago
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"90k people in prison, just saying
So you happy for a murderer or a rapist let out for a day to work next to you...?
There must be work that these criminals can do as part of the rehabilitation, but you go straight into the worst case scenario.
Leave them sitting in jail doing nothing for hours...."
If I was a farmer and the government wanted to send prisoners round to pick fruit on my farm, I wouldn't be to happy. |
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By (user no longer on site) 43 weeks ago
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"Not seen the story but I assume it's about some sectors that need extra staff. What I don't understand is why EU workers? Surely it should just be workers regardless of they originate if they meet the criteria"
Because we’ve always been able to recruit freely from outside the EU (indeed we always took more non-EU migrants than EU ones).
So presumably the govt. have realised that there’s just not enough interest from those farther afield to come and work here, and Brexit is the reason for this shortfall. |
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By (user no longer on site) 43 weeks ago
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"90k people in prison, just saying
So you happy for a murderer or a rapist let out for a day to work next to you...?
There must be work that these criminals can do as part of the rehabilitation, but you go straight into the worst case scenario.
Leave them sitting in jail doing nothing for hours....
If I was a farmer and the government wanted to send prisoners round to pick fruit on my farm, I wouldn't be to happy."
Better or worse than fruit going unpicked? |
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By *otMe66Man 43 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"90k people in prison, just saying
So you happy for a murderer or a rapist let out for a day to work next to you...?
There must be work that these criminals can do as part of the rehabilitation, but you go straight into the worst case scenario.
Leave them sitting in jail doing nothing for hours....
If I was a farmer and the government wanted to send prisoners round to pick fruit on my farm, I wouldn't be to happy."
Good job you’re not a farmer….
Any other jobs spring to mind that they can’t do, let’s not think about things they could do |
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By *deepdive OP Man 43 weeks ago
France / Birmingham |
"Not seen the story but I assume it's about some sectors that need extra staff. What I don't understand is why EU workers? Surely it should just be workers regardless of they originate if they meet the criteria"
It was in the Guardian yesterday
Eustace also was quoted as targeting workers from countries such as Romania and Hungary then opening it up to other countries within the EU.
He wants a reciprocal agreement so that under 35yo from the UK can also live and work in those countries that agree.
I doubt very much if agreements for freedom of movement can be cherry picked but, I am sure that Eustice knows more than I do. |
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"Not seen the story but I assume it's about some sectors that need extra staff. What I don't understand is why EU workers? Surely it should just be workers regardless of they originate if they meet the criteria
Because we’ve always been able to recruit freely from outside the EU (indeed we always took more non-EU migrants than EU ones).
So presumably the govt. have realised that there’s just not enough interest from those farther afield to come and work here, and Brexit is the reason for this shortfall. "
So it doesn't have to be EU workers, just workers that want to come here |
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By *deepdive OP Man 43 weeks ago
France / Birmingham |
"Not seen the story but I assume it's about some sectors that need extra staff. What I don't understand is why EU workers? Surely it should just be workers regardless of they originate if they meet the criteria
It was in the Guardian yesterday
Eustace also was quoted as targeting workers from countries such as Romania and Hungary then opening it up to other countries within the EU.
He wants a reciprocal agreement so that under 35yo from the UK can also live and work in those countries that agree.
I doubt very much if agreements for freedom of movement can be cherry picked but, I am sure that Eustice knows more than I do."
I should mention that he was talking about a two year special visa.. |
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By (user no longer on site) 43 weeks ago
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"Not seen the story but I assume it's about some sectors that need extra staff. What I don't understand is why EU workers? Surely it should just be workers regardless of they originate if they meet the criteria
It was in the Guardian yesterday
Eustace also was quoted as targeting workers from countries such as Romania and Hungary then opening it up to other countries within the EU.
He wants a reciprocal agreement so that under 35yo from the UK can also live and work in those countries that agree.
I doubt very much if agreements for freedom of movement can be cherry picked but, I am sure that Eustice knows more than I do."
All we need is for them to negotiate a reciprocal agreement for work and travel for everyone, and mayhap we could accept a set of common trading, working and legal standards with the EU or something.
That sounds like a good idea, right? |
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By (user no longer on site) 43 weeks ago
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"Not seen the story but I assume it's about some sectors that need extra staff. What I don't understand is why EU workers? Surely it should just be workers regardless of they originate if they meet the criteria
Because we’ve always been able to recruit freely from outside the EU (indeed we always took more non-EU migrants than EU ones).
So presumably the govt. have realised that there’s just not enough interest from those farther afield to come and work here, and Brexit is the reason for this shortfall.
So it doesn't have to be EU workers, just workers that want to come here"
Yes.
Except we’ve always been able to do that, and we still have a shortfall since Brexit.
It’s not rocket science. |
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By *otMe66Man 43 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"Not seen the story but I assume it's about some sectors that need extra staff. What I don't understand is why EU workers? Surely it should just be workers regardless of they originate if they meet the criteria
It was in the Guardian yesterday
Eustace also was quoted as targeting workers from countries such as Romania and Hungary then opening it up to other countries within the EU.
He wants a reciprocal agreement so that under 35yo from the UK can also live and work in those countries that agree.
I doubt very much if agreements for freedom of movement can be cherry picked but, I am sure that Eustice knows more than I do.
All we need is for them to negotiate a reciprocal agreement for work and travel for everyone, and mayhap we could accept a set of common trading, working and legal standards with the EU or something.
That sounds like a good idea, right? "
This is not something that hasn’t happened before and something the government flexes based on impact. They have changed rules around EU HGV drivers as an example. |
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By (user no longer on site) 43 weeks ago
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"Not seen the story but I assume it's about some sectors that need extra staff. What I don't understand is why EU workers? Surely it should just be workers regardless of they originate if they meet the criteria
It was in the Guardian yesterday
Eustace also was quoted as targeting workers from countries such as Romania and Hungary then opening it up to other countries within the EU.
He wants a reciprocal agreement so that under 35yo from the UK can also live and work in those countries that agree.
I doubt very much if agreements for freedom of movement can be cherry picked but, I am sure that Eustice knows more than I do.
All we need is for them to negotiate a reciprocal agreement for work and travel for everyone, and mayhap we could accept a set of common trading, working and legal standards with the EU or something.
That sounds like a good idea, right?
This is not something that hasn’t happened before and something the government flexes based on impact. They have changed rules around EU HGV drivers as an example."
Do we have reciprocal FOM for HGV drivers then? |
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"Not seen the story but I assume it's about some sectors that need extra staff. What I don't understand is why EU workers? Surely it should just be workers regardless of they originate if they meet the criteria
Because we’ve always been able to recruit freely from outside the EU (indeed we always took more non-EU migrants than EU ones).
So presumably the govt. have realised that there’s just not enough interest from those farther afield to come and work here, and Brexit is the reason for this shortfall.
So it doesn't have to be EU workers, just workers that want to come here
Yes.
Except we’ve always been able to do that, and we still have a shortfall since Brexit.
It’s not rocket science."
As I say I have not seen the story so was curious why it was EU workers. As it turns out it is not EU workers only but just that they feel they have a better chance of recruiting from the EU |
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By *otMe66Man 43 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"Not seen the story but I assume it's about some sectors that need extra staff. What I don't understand is why EU workers? Surely it should just be workers regardless of they originate if they meet the criteria
It was in the Guardian yesterday
Eustace also was quoted as targeting workers from countries such as Romania and Hungary then opening it up to other countries within the EU.
He wants a reciprocal agreement so that under 35yo from the UK can also live and work in those countries that agree.
I doubt very much if agreements for freedom of movement can be cherry picked but, I am sure that Eustice knows more than I do.
All we need is for them to negotiate a reciprocal agreement for work and travel for everyone, and mayhap we could accept a set of common trading, working and legal standards with the EU or something.
That sounds like a good idea, right?
This is not something that hasn’t happened before and something the government flexes based on impact. They have changed rules around EU HGV drivers as an example.
Do we have reciprocal FOM for HGV drivers then? "
I don’t think we need it to be reciprocal, we are the ones in need.
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By (user no longer on site) 43 weeks ago
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"Not seen the story but I assume it's about some sectors that need extra staff. What I don't understand is why EU workers? Surely it should just be workers regardless of they originate if they meet the criteria
It was in the Guardian yesterday
Eustace also was quoted as targeting workers from countries such as Romania and Hungary then opening it up to other countries within the EU.
He wants a reciprocal agreement so that under 35yo from the UK can also live and work in those countries that agree.
I doubt very much if agreements for freedom of movement can be cherry picked but, I am sure that Eustice knows more than I do.
All we need is for them to negotiate a reciprocal agreement for work and travel for everyone, and mayhap we could accept a set of common trading, working and legal standards with the EU or something.
That sounds like a good idea, right?
This is not something that hasn’t happened before and something the government flexes based on impact. They have changed rules around EU HGV drivers as an example.
Do we have reciprocal FOM for HGV drivers then?
I don’t think we need it to be reciprocal, we are the ones in need.
"
Eustace wants reciprocal. |
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"90k people in prison, just saying
So you happy for a murderer or a rapist let out for a day to work next to you...?pretty sure majority aint murderers and rap ists why not make use of the ones who are petty crims that way they can pay towards there bed and board
Forced labour, including of prisoners is illegal under the modern sl4very act.
Jeez, what type of labour do you think they would be doing! Working on chain gangs
There must be work that these criminals can do as part of the rehabilitation, but you go straight into the worst case scenario.
This is what is wrong with society today."
There could be lots of security issues and all hell to pay if it goes wrong but if low risk prisoners volunteered to do work and got some pay then it would not be forced, it would help prisoners get some money behind them and help the employers. Can't see the government taking the risk though |
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By *otMe66Man 43 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"Not seen the story but I assume it's about some sectors that need extra staff. What I don't understand is why EU workers? Surely it should just be workers regardless of they originate if they meet the criteria
It was in the Guardian yesterday
Eustace also was quoted as targeting workers from countries such as Romania and Hungary then opening it up to other countries within the EU.
He wants a reciprocal agreement so that under 35yo from the UK can also live and work in those countries that agree.
I doubt very much if agreements for freedom of movement can be cherry picked but, I am sure that Eustice knows more than I do.
All we need is for them to negotiate a reciprocal agreement for work and travel for everyone, and mayhap we could accept a set of common trading, working and legal standards with the EU or something.
That sounds like a good idea, right?
This is not something that hasn’t happened before and something the government flexes based on impact. They have changed rules around EU HGV drivers as an example.
Do we have reciprocal FOM for HGV drivers then?
I don’t think we need it to be reciprocal, we are the ones in need.
Eustace wants reciprocal."
Things are changing from all areas that will in a very short space of time bring us back to FOM of kinds. Digital nomad visa is one example, get that and you have FOM, albeit for a limited period of time, 24 months I think is the longest.
The scientists are looking to jump back onto the EU program and I’m sure others will start to chip away too. |
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By (user no longer on site) 43 weeks ago
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"90k people in prison, just saying
So you happy for a murderer or a rapist let out for a day to work next to you...?
There must be work that these criminals can do as part of the rehabilitation, but you go straight into the worst case scenario.
Leave them sitting in jail doing nothing for hours....
If I was a farmer and the government wanted to send prisoners round to pick fruit on my farm, I wouldn't be to happy.
Good job you’re not a farmer….
Any other jobs spring to mind that they can’t do, let’s not think about things they could do "
Its easy to suggest someone else take the risk. But a private employer is always going to weigh up the options.
Are you suggesting the fill the shortfalls in the public sector.
Like the NHS, police etc.. |
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By (user no longer on site) 43 weeks ago
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"90k people in prison, just saying
So you happy for a murderer or a rapist let out for a day to work next to you...?
There must be work that these criminals can do as part of the rehabilitation, but you go straight into the worst case scenario.
Leave them sitting in jail doing nothing for hours....
If I was a farmer and the government wanted to send prisoners round to pick fruit on my farm, I wouldn't be to happy.
Better or worse than fruit going unpicked? "
Remember watching a documentary on this story. The business owner believed in giving people second chances and recruited ex cons.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/nov/09/ukcrime.taniabranigan |
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By *otMe66Man 43 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"90k people in prison, just saying
So you happy for a murderer or a rapist let out for a day to work next to you...?
There must be work that these criminals can do as part of the rehabilitation, but you go straight into the worst case scenario.
Leave them sitting in jail doing nothing for hours....
If I was a farmer and the government wanted to send prisoners round to pick fruit on my farm, I wouldn't be to happy.
Better or worse than fruit going unpicked?
Remember watching a documentary on this story. The business owner believed in giving people second chances and recruited ex cons.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/nov/09/ukcrime.taniabranigan"
I have just read that and I can see it is still giving you nightmares.. Thanks for sharing, I'm going to have them now.  |
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"90k people in prison, just saying
So you happy for a murderer or a rapist let out for a day to work next to you...?
There must be work that these criminals can do as part of the rehabilitation, but you go straight into the worst case scenario.
Leave them sitting in jail doing nothing for hours....
If I was a farmer and the government wanted to send prisoners round to pick fruit on my farm, I wouldn't be to happy.
Better or worse than fruit going unpicked?
Remember watching a documentary on this story. The business owner believed in giving people second chances and recruited ex cons.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/nov/09/ukcrime.taniabranigan"
Well over 80% of the prison population have a history of drug or alcohol abuse. Only a tiny percentage of these stay long term 'clean'. So releasing an army of addicts on society is a big risk. |
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By (user no longer on site) 43 weeks ago
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"90k people in prison, just saying
So you happy for a murderer or a rapist let out for a day to work next to you...?
There must be work that these criminals can do as part of the rehabilitation, but you go straight into the worst case scenario.
Leave them sitting in jail doing nothing for hours....
If I was a farmer and the government wanted to send prisoners round to pick fruit on my farm, I wouldn't be to happy.
Better or worse than fruit going unpicked?
Remember watching a documentary on this story. The business owner believed in giving people second chances and recruited ex cons.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/nov/09/ukcrime.taniabranigan
Well over 80% of the prison population have a history of drug or alcohol abuse. Only a tiny percentage of these stay long term 'clean'. So releasing an army of addicts on society is a big risk."
That’s why we need to radically overhaul our views on drugs, prisons and rehabilitation. Invest in help, not punishment. Provide schemes for ex-cons to actually turn their lives round rather than being forced into an endless cycle of crime. |
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By *otMe66Man 43 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"90k people in prison, just saying
So you happy for a murderer or a rapist let out for a day to work next to you...?
There must be work that these criminals can do as part of the rehabilitation, but you go straight into the worst case scenario.
Leave them sitting in jail doing nothing for hours....
If I was a farmer and the government wanted to send prisoners round to pick fruit on my farm, I wouldn't be to happy.
Better or worse than fruit going unpicked?
Remember watching a documentary on this story. The business owner believed in giving people second chances and recruited ex cons.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/nov/09/ukcrime.taniabranigan
Well over 80% of the prison population have a history of drug or alcohol abuse. Only a tiny percentage of these stay long term 'clean'. So releasing an army of addicts on society is a big risk."
The overall reasoning here is they are released into society.
Prisons are designed with one thing in mind, stopping people getting out and control.
It is time for a rethink in what a prison should be. An enclosed building for sure, but one that can become a facility to train people in new skills, give them jobs, educate them and allow them to earn cash all while being inside for their crimes.
It can close shortages in skill gaps, get some work done and hopefully give people the determination and skill sets to become law abiding citizens, less likely to reoffend. |
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"90k people in prison, just saying
So you happy for a murderer or a rapist let out for a day to work next to you...?pretty sure majority aint murderers and rap ists why not make use of the ones who are petty crims that way they can pay towards there bed and board
Forced labour, including of prisoners is illegal under the modern sl4very act."
Forced labour is already a thing. Its called community service (thunk its been renamed), I don't hear anyone complaining about that. |
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By *otMe66Man 43 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"90k people in prison, just saying
So you happy for a murderer or a rapist let out for a day to work next to you...?pretty sure majority aint murderers and rap ists why not make use of the ones who are petty crims that way they can pay towards there bed and board
Forced labour, including of prisoners is illegal under the modern sl4very act.
Forced labour is already a thing. Its called community service (thunk its been renamed), I don't hear anyone complaining about that. "
That is a fact and it doesn't have the I'm looking after the oppressed vibe, so it will be ignored. |
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"90k people in prison, just saying
So you happy for a murderer or a rapist let out for a day to work next to you...?pretty sure majority aint murderers and rap ists why not make use of the ones who are petty crims that way they can pay towards there bed and board
Forced labour, including of prisoners is illegal under the modern sl4very act.
Forced labour is already a thing. Its called community service (thunk its been renamed), I don't hear anyone complaining about that.
That is a fact and it doesn't have the I'm looking after the oppressed vibe, so it will be ignored. "
When you break the law, you lose a lot of rights, including some as extreme as 'forced imprisonment', tough shit, that's the contract you signed when you decided to break the law. |
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By (user no longer on site) 43 weeks ago
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"90k people in prison, just saying
So you happy for a murderer or a rapist let out for a day to work next to you...?
There must be work that these criminals can do as part of the rehabilitation, but you go straight into the worst case scenario.
Leave them sitting in jail doing nothing for hours....
If I was a farmer and the government wanted to send prisoners round to pick fruit on my farm, I wouldn't be to happy.
Better or worse than fruit going unpicked?
Remember watching a documentary on this story. The business owner believed in giving people second chances and recruited ex cons.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/nov/09/ukcrime.taniabranigan
Well over 80% of the prison population have a history of drug or alcohol abuse. Only a tiny percentage of these stay long term 'clean'. So releasing an army of addicts on society is a big risk.
The overall reasoning here is they are released into society.
Prisons are designed with one thing in mind, stopping people getting out and control.
It is time for a rethink in what a prison should be. An enclosed building for sure, but one that can become a facility to train people in new skills, give them jobs, educate them and allow them to earn cash all while being inside for their crimes.
It can close shortages in skill gaps, get some work done and hopefully give people the determination and skill sets to become law abiding citizens, less likely to reoffend. "
I think most will agree with you on this point. It will require investment though and take years to bear any fruition. Most governments only want to invest in things that will start showing results by the next election. |
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By (user no longer on site) 43 weeks ago
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"90k people in prison, just saying
So you happy for a murderer or a rapist let out for a day to work next to you...?
There must be work that these criminals can do as part of the rehabilitation, but you go straight into the worst case scenario.
Leave them sitting in jail doing nothing for hours....
If I was a farmer and the government wanted to send prisoners round to pick fruit on my farm, I wouldn't be to happy.
Better or worse than fruit going unpicked?
Remember watching a documentary on this story. The business owner believed in giving people second chances and recruited ex cons.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/nov/09/ukcrime.taniabranigan
I have just read that and I can see it is still giving you nightmares.. Thanks for sharing, I'm going to have them now. "
The documentary was actually on TV a few months ago. I remember at the time thinking about how that would put me and probably a lot of other people hiring a person with a criminal record. |
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By *addad99Man 43 weeks ago
Rotherham /newquay |
"Here's an idea. Why not motivate a proportion of our own 8.9 mil. economically inactive fellow citizens to fill some jobs? Amongst the advantages : some modest tax revenues, a huge benefits bill saving, less demands on healthcare, schools and housing by migrant workers, national wealth not exported by earnings sent home ...........
Agree in principle but first question we need to ask is why those people are economically inactive?
What is the “net benefit” to them, ie why should they do it?
How does that 8m+ figure break down? Demographics? Geographic location? Health status? Then can those be mapped to the type of work available and location of that work.
For example, If someone has retired early because they can afford to, why should they be pressured to re-enter the workforce?"
my sister hasn't worked since first kid came she's now 28 so 28 yrs not working but I must say she's never claimed she pays private dentist her partner has a great job so why would she go back me it would do my head in being home all day but each to there own. |
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"George Eustice is now telling us that we need more workers from the EU (cherry picking under 35 y.o.).
Of course, this was not due to Brexit but due to Theresa May being a Remainer and not understanding what people actually voted for as Brexit was never about stopping immigration but more to control it.
Amazing how Theresa May singlehandedly made all the Brexit mistakes - didn't she have a cabinet?"
The same bitter man who got ousted. Even though we just had a higher net immigration due to at any time in the e.u because we picked up refugees who are now working here?
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By *irldnCouple 43 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Here's an idea. Why not motivate a proportion of our own 8.9 mil. economically inactive fellow citizens to fill some jobs? Amongst the advantages : some modest tax revenues, a huge benefits bill saving, less demands on healthcare, schools and housing by migrant workers, national wealth not exported by earnings sent home ...........
Agree in principle but first question we need to ask is why those people are economically inactive?
What is the “net benefit” to them, ie why should they do it?
How does that 8m+ figure break down? Demographics? Geographic location? Health status? Then can those be mapped to the type of work available and location of that work.
For example, If someone has retired early because they can afford to, why should they be pressured to re-enter the workforce?
This is complicated and there are a host of reasons people don't work including personal health, care of dependants, age etc. Fair enough. But equally there are those who are just lazy and feckless, happy to live off state benefits. As for "why should people work?". Well maybe out of a sense of social responsibility and good citizenship?"
Able bodies adults in good health should work and be required to undertake (re)training to develop skills for the jobs that are available in the area where they live. However, there needs to be a net benefit to the individual where work pays better than benefits otherwise it becomes an economic trap.
I specifically asked about retired people. Why should they rejoin the workforce having already worked 30-40 years and paid their taxes etc? Why can’t they enjoy their retirement? |
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"Here's an idea. Why not motivate a proportion of our own 8.9 mil. economically inactive fellow citizens to fill some jobs? Amongst the advantages : some modest tax revenues, a huge benefits bill saving, less demands on healthcare, schools and housing by migrant workers, national wealth not exported by earnings sent home ...........
Agree in principle but first question we need to ask is why those people are economically inactive?
What is the “net benefit” to them, ie why should they do it?
How does that 8m+ figure break down? Demographics? Geographic location? Health status? Then can those be mapped to the type of work available and location of that work.
For example, If someone has retired early because they can afford to, why should they be pressured to re-enter the workforce?
This is complicated and there are a host of reasons people don't work including personal health, care of dependants, age etc. Fair enough. But equally there are those who are just lazy and feckless, happy to live off state benefits. As for "why should people work?". Well maybe out of a sense of social responsibility and good citizenship?
Able bodies adults in good health should work and be required to undertake (re)training to develop skills for the jobs that are available in the area where they live. However, there needs to be a net benefit to the individual where work pays better than benefits otherwise it becomes an economic trap.
I specifically asked about retired people. Why should they rejoin the workforce having already worked 30-40 years and paid their taxes etc? Why can’t they enjoy their retirement?"
There's certainly an argument that many actually didn't pay enough into the system.
Sadly our consecutive governments having created the nhs didn't respond when the average life expectancy increased 22 years.
They still retired at 60 up until the 90s then 66 just recently.
And the waspi women.( who knew this was coming since 1990s when the tories first proposed it and it passed)
National insurance and tax was always at a Blackmore for laying pensions and got worse.
Government needed to respond in the 70s increasing retirement to 66 it should probably be at 70 now.
When the nha was created you had 6 years from tmreturement to the average age of death and 4 workers for every retiree.
You now have just over 2 workers for every retiree and the average years to live on after retirement age is 16
Multiple government have failed for 50 years on this subject.
It's a tough conversation to have with people. |
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"Here's an idea. Why not motivate a proportion of our own 8.9 mil. economically inactive fellow citizens to fill some jobs? Amongst the advantages : some modest tax revenues, a huge benefits bill saving, less demands on healthcare, schools and housing by migrant workers, national wealth not exported by earnings sent home ...........
Agree in principle but first question we need to ask is why those people are economically inactive?
What is the “net benefit” to them, ie why should they do it?
How does that 8m+ figure break down? Demographics? Geographic location? Health status? Then can those be mapped to the type of work available and location of that work.
For example, If someone has retired early because they can afford to, why should they be pressured to re-enter the workforce?
This is complicated and there are a host of reasons people don't work including personal health, care of dependants, age etc. Fair enough. But equally there are those who are just lazy and feckless, happy to live off state benefits. As for "why should people work?". Well maybe out of a sense of social responsibility and good citizenship?
Able bodies adults in good health should work and be required to undertake (re)training to develop skills for the jobs that are available in the area where they live. However, there needs to be a net benefit to the individual where work pays better than benefits otherwise it becomes an economic trap.
I specifically asked about retired people. Why should they rejoin the workforce having already worked 30-40 years and paid their taxes etc? Why can’t they enjoy their retirement?"
Sure if they want to retire and have put the years in, why not? But equally why waste all that experience? Work is good for some people. Retirees should be incentivised to re-join the workforce voluntarily. |
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By (user no longer on site) 43 weeks ago
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"Here's an idea. Why not motivate a proportion of our own 8.9 mil. economically inactive fellow citizens to fill some jobs? Amongst the advantages : some modest tax revenues, a huge benefits bill saving, less demands on healthcare, schools and housing by migrant workers, national wealth not exported by earnings sent home ...........
Agree in principle but first question we need to ask is why those people are economically inactive?
What is the “net benefit” to them, ie why should they do it?
How does that 8m+ figure break down? Demographics? Geographic location? Health status? Then can those be mapped to the type of work available and location of that work.
For example, If someone has retired early because they can afford to, why should they be pressured to re-enter the workforce?
This is complicated and there are a host of reasons people don't work including personal health, care of dependants, age etc. Fair enough. But equally there are those who are just lazy and feckless, happy to live off state benefits. As for "why should people work?". Well maybe out of a sense of social responsibility and good citizenship?
Able bodies adults in good health should work and be required to undertake (re)training to develop skills for the jobs that are available in the area where they live. However, there needs to be a net benefit to the individual where work pays better than benefits otherwise it becomes an economic trap.
I specifically asked about retired people. Why should they rejoin the workforce having already worked 30-40 years and paid their taxes etc? Why can’t they enjoy their retirement?
Sure if they want to retire and have put the years in, why not? But equally why waste all that experience? Work is good for some people. Retirees should be incentivised to re-join the workforce voluntarily. "
If people want to work beyond retirement, that’s fine - but don’t grumble at high youth unemployment. |
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By (user no longer on site) 43 weeks ago
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If things progress as presently planned, I’ll be retiring at 62 when my pension pot is full after 40 years. I’ll walk away to do my hobbies safe in the knowledge that it’s someone else’s turn.
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"Here's an idea. Why not motivate a proportion of our own 8.9 mil. economically inactive fellow citizens to fill some jobs? Amongst the advantages : some modest tax revenues, a huge benefits bill saving, less demands on healthcare, schools and housing by migrant workers, national wealth not exported by earnings sent home ...........
Agree in principle but first question we need to ask is why those people are economically inactive?
What is the “net benefit” to them, ie why should they do it?
How does that 8m+ figure break down? Demographics? Geographic location? Health status? Then can those be mapped to the type of work available and location of that work.
For example, If someone has retired early because they can afford to, why should they be pressured to re-enter the workforce?
This is complicated and there are a host of reasons people don't work including personal health, care of dependants, age etc. Fair enough. But equally there are those who are just lazy and feckless, happy to live off state benefits. As for "why should people work?". Well maybe out of a sense of social responsibility and good citizenship?
Able bodies adults in good health should work and be required to undertake (re)training to develop skills for the jobs that are available in the area where they live. However, there needs to be a net benefit to the individual where work pays better than benefits otherwise it becomes an economic trap.
I specifically asked about retired people. Why should they rejoin the workforce having already worked 30-40 years and paid their taxes etc? Why can’t they enjoy their retirement?
Sure if they want to retire and have put the years in, why not? But equally why waste all that experience? Work is good for some people. Retirees should be incentivised to re-join the workforce voluntarily.
If people want to work beyond retirement, that’s fine - but don’t grumble at high youth unemployment."
This is getting into a circular debate. So if we have high youth unemployment why do we need an army of migrant workers? |
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By (user no longer on site) 43 weeks ago
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"Here's an idea. Why not motivate a proportion of our own 8.9 mil. economically inactive fellow citizens to fill some jobs? Amongst the advantages : some modest tax revenues, a huge benefits bill saving, less demands on healthcare, schools and housing by migrant workers, national wealth not exported by earnings sent home ...........
Agree in principle but first question we need to ask is why those people are economically inactive?
What is the “net benefit” to them, ie why should they do it?
How does that 8m+ figure break down? Demographics? Geographic location? Health status? Then can those be mapped to the type of work available and location of that work.
For example, If someone has retired early because they can afford to, why should they be pressured to re-enter the workforce?
This is complicated and there are a host of reasons people don't work including personal health, care of dependants, age etc. Fair enough. But equally there are those who are just lazy and feckless, happy to live off state benefits. As for "why should people work?". Well maybe out of a sense of social responsibility and good citizenship?
Able bodies adults in good health should work and be required to undertake (re)training to develop skills for the jobs that are available in the area where they live. However, there needs to be a net benefit to the individual where work pays better than benefits otherwise it becomes an economic trap.
I specifically asked about retired people. Why should they rejoin the workforce having already worked 30-40 years and paid their taxes etc? Why can’t they enjoy their retirement?
Sure if they want to retire and have put the years in, why not? But equally why waste all that experience? Work is good for some people. Retirees should be incentivised to re-join the workforce voluntarily.
If people want to work beyond retirement, that’s fine - but don’t grumble at high youth unemployment.
This is getting into a circular debate. So if we have high youth unemployment why do we need an army of migrant workers?"
We don’t have particularly high youth unemployment right now, I’m just pointing out that there’s a finite number of jobs and if we all work longer then the youth will find it harder to gain a foothold.
We need EU workers because someone foolishly decided that we should leave the EU despite all the evidence suggesting it was a stupid idea.
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By *irldnCouple 43 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Here's an idea. Why not motivate a proportion of our own 8.9 mil. economically inactive fellow citizens to fill some jobs? Amongst the advantages : some modest tax revenues, a huge benefits bill saving, less demands on healthcare, schools and housing by migrant workers, national wealth not exported by earnings sent home ...........
Agree in principle but first question we need to ask is why those people are economically inactive?
What is the “net benefit” to them, ie why should they do it?
How does that 8m+ figure break down? Demographics? Geographic location? Health status? Then can those be mapped to the type of work available and location of that work.
For example, If someone has retired early because they can afford to, why should they be pressured to re-enter the workforce?
This is complicated and there are a host of reasons people don't work including personal health, care of dependants, age etc. Fair enough. But equally there are those who are just lazy and feckless, happy to live off state benefits. As for "why should people work?". Well maybe out of a sense of social responsibility and good citizenship?
Able bodies adults in good health should work and be required to undertake (re)training to develop skills for the jobs that are available in the area where they live. However, there needs to be a net benefit to the individual where work pays better than benefits otherwise it becomes an economic trap.
I specifically asked about retired people. Why should they rejoin the workforce having already worked 30-40 years and paid their taxes etc? Why can’t they enjoy their retirement?
Sure if they want to retire and have put the years in, why not? But equally why waste all that experience? Work is good for some people. Retirees should be incentivised to re-join the workforce voluntarily. "
“Incentivised” and “voluntarily” sounds right. “Social responsibility” and “good citizenship” sounds like a totalitarian state putting pressure on. |
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By *otMe66Man 43 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"Here's an idea. Why not motivate a proportion of our own 8.9 mil. economically inactive fellow citizens to fill some jobs? Amongst the advantages : some modest tax revenues, a huge benefits bill saving, less demands on healthcare, schools and housing by migrant workers, national wealth not exported by earnings sent home ...........
Agree in principle but first question we need to ask is why those people are economically inactive?
What is the “net benefit” to them, ie why should they do it?
How does that 8m+ figure break down? Demographics? Geographic location? Health status? Then can those be mapped to the type of work available and location of that work.
For example, If someone has retired early because they can afford to, why should they be pressured to re-enter the workforce?
This is complicated and there are a host of reasons people don't work including personal health, care of dependants, age etc. Fair enough. But equally there are those who are just lazy and feckless, happy to live off state benefits. As for "why should people work?". Well maybe out of a sense of social responsibility and good citizenship?
Able bodies adults in good health should work and be required to undertake (re)training to develop skills for the jobs that are available in the area where they live. However, there needs to be a net benefit to the individual where work pays better than benefits otherwise it becomes an economic trap.
I specifically asked about retired people. Why should they rejoin the workforce having already worked 30-40 years and paid their taxes etc? Why can’t they enjoy their retirement?
Sure if they want to retire and have put the years in, why not? But equally why waste all that experience? Work is good for some people. Retirees should be incentivised to re-join the workforce voluntarily.
If people want to work beyond retirement, that’s fine - but don’t grumble at high youth unemployment.
This is getting into a circular debate. So if we have high youth unemployment why do we need an army of migrant workers?
We don’t have particularly high youth unemployment right now, I’m just pointing out that there’s a finite number of jobs and if we all work longer then the youth will find it harder to gain a foothold.
We need EU workers because someone foolishly decided that we should leave the EU despite all the evidence suggesting it was a stupid idea.
"
My oh my, finite number of jobs we need EU workers, unemployment is not particularly high, what is your point? |
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"Here's an idea. Why not motivate a proportion of our own 8.9 mil. economically inactive fellow citizens to fill some jobs? Amongst the advantages : some modest tax revenues, a huge benefits bill saving, less demands on healthcare, schools and housing by migrant workers, national wealth not exported by earnings sent home ...........
Agree in principle but first question we need to ask is why those people are economically inactive?
What is the “net benefit” to them, ie why should they do it?
How does that 8m+ figure break down? Demographics? Geographic location? Health status? Then can those be mapped to the type of work available and location of that work.
For example, If someone has retired early because they can afford to, why should they be pressured to re-enter the workforce?
This is complicated and there are a host of reasons people don't work including personal health, care of dependants, age etc. Fair enough. But equally there are those who are just lazy and feckless, happy to live off state benefits. As for "why should people work?". Well maybe out of a sense of social responsibility and good citizenship?
Able bodies adults in good health should work and be required to undertake (re)training to develop skills for the jobs that are available in the area where they live. However, there needs to be a net benefit to the individual where work pays better than benefits otherwise it becomes an economic trap.
I specifically asked about retired people. Why should they rejoin the workforce having already worked 30-40 years and paid their taxes etc? Why can’t they enjoy their retirement?
Sure if they want to retire and have put the years in, why not? But equally why waste all that experience? Work is good for some people. Retirees should be incentivised to re-join the workforce voluntarily.
If people want to work beyond retirement, that’s fine - but don’t grumble at high youth unemployment.
This is getting into a circular debate. So if we have high youth unemployment why do we need an army of migrant workers?
We don’t have particularly high youth unemployment right now, I’m just pointing out that there’s a finite number of jobs and if we all work longer then the youth will find it harder to gain a foothold.
We need EU workers because someone foolishly decided that we should leave the EU despite all the evidence suggesting it was a stupid idea.
My oh my, finite number of jobs we need EU workers, unemployment is not particularly high, what is your point?"
It's the magic roundabout  |
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By (user no longer on site) 43 weeks ago
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"Here's an idea. Why not motivate a proportion of our own 8.9 mil. economically inactive fellow citizens to fill some jobs? Amongst the advantages : some modest tax revenues, a huge benefits bill saving, less demands on healthcare, schools and housing by migrant workers, national wealth not exported by earnings sent home ...........
Agree in principle but first question we need to ask is why those people are economically inactive?
What is the “net benefit” to them, ie why should they do it?
How does that 8m+ figure break down? Demographics? Geographic location? Health status? Then can those be mapped to the type of work available and location of that work.
For example, If someone has retired early because they can afford to, why should they be pressured to re-enter the workforce?
This is complicated and there are a host of reasons people don't work including personal health, care of dependants, age etc. Fair enough. But equally there are those who are just lazy and feckless, happy to live off state benefits. As for "why should people work?". Well maybe out of a sense of social responsibility and good citizenship?
Able bodies adults in good health should work and be required to undertake (re)training to develop skills for the jobs that are available in the area where they live. However, there needs to be a net benefit to the individual where work pays better than benefits otherwise it becomes an economic trap.
I specifically asked about retired people. Why should they rejoin the workforce having already worked 30-40 years and paid their taxes etc? Why can’t they enjoy their retirement?
Sure if they want to retire and have put the years in, why not? But equally why waste all that experience? Work is good for some people. Retirees should be incentivised to re-join the workforce voluntarily.
If people want to work beyond retirement, that’s fine - but don’t grumble at high youth unemployment.
This is getting into a circular debate. So if we have high youth unemployment why do we need an army of migrant workers?
We don’t have particularly high youth unemployment right now, I’m just pointing out that there’s a finite number of jobs and if we all work longer then the youth will find it harder to gain a foothold.
We need EU workers because someone foolishly decided that we should leave the EU despite all the evidence suggesting it was a stupid idea.
My oh my, finite number of jobs we need EU workers, unemployment is not particularly high, what is your point?"
I’m not surprised you missed it.
If you have a finite number of jobs (or as we’re about to find out, a falling number of jobs) and those in employment work later in life, what happens to education leavers? |
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By *otMe66Man 43 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"Here's an idea. Why not motivate a proportion of our own 8.9 mil. economically inactive fellow citizens to fill some jobs? Amongst the advantages : some modest tax revenues, a huge benefits bill saving, less demands on healthcare, schools and housing by migrant workers, national wealth not exported by earnings sent home ...........
Agree in principle but first question we need to ask is why those people are economically inactive?
What is the “net benefit” to them, ie why should they do it?
How does that 8m+ figure break down? Demographics? Geographic location? Health status? Then can those be mapped to the type of work available and location of that work.
For example, If someone has retired early because they can afford to, why should they be pressured to re-enter the workforce?
This is complicated and there are a host of reasons people don't work including personal health, care of dependants, age etc. Fair enough. But equally there are those who are just lazy and feckless, happy to live off state benefits. As for "why should people work?". Well maybe out of a sense of social responsibility and good citizenship?
Able bodies adults in good health should work and be required to undertake (re)training to develop skills for the jobs that are available in the area where they live. However, there needs to be a net benefit to the individual where work pays better than benefits otherwise it becomes an economic trap.
I specifically asked about retired people. Why should they rejoin the workforce having already worked 30-40 years and paid their taxes etc? Why can’t they enjoy their retirement?
Sure if they want to retire and have put the years in, why not? But equally why waste all that experience? Work is good for some people. Retirees should be incentivised to re-join the workforce voluntarily.
If people want to work beyond retirement, that’s fine - but don’t grumble at high youth unemployment.
This is getting into a circular debate. So if we have high youth unemployment why do we need an army of migrant workers?
We don’t have particularly high youth unemployment right now, I’m just pointing out that there’s a finite number of jobs and if we all work longer then the youth will find it harder to gain a foothold.
We need EU workers because someone foolishly decided that we should leave the EU despite all the evidence suggesting it was a stupid idea.
My oh my, finite number of jobs we need EU workers, unemployment is not particularly high, what is your point?
I’m not surprised you missed it.
If you have a finite number of jobs (or as we’re about to find out, a falling number of jobs) and those in employment work later in life, what happens to education leavers?"
I’m now 100% sure you know nothing about economics or the the progression of technology and how that changes the landscape of the future. You are stuck in the here and now with no grasp of the future, it makes sense |
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By (user no longer on site) 43 weeks ago
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"Here's an idea. Why not motivate a proportion of our own 8.9 mil. economically inactive fellow citizens to fill some jobs? Amongst the advantages : some modest tax revenues, a huge benefits bill saving, less demands on healthcare, schools and housing by migrant workers, national wealth not exported by earnings sent home ...........
Agree in principle but first question we need to ask is why those people are economically inactive?
What is the “net benefit” to them, ie why should they do it?
How does that 8m+ figure break down? Demographics? Geographic location? Health status? Then can those be mapped to the type of work available and location of that work.
For example, If someone has retired early because they can afford to, why should they be pressured to re-enter the workforce?
This is complicated and there are a host of reasons people don't work including personal health, care of dependants, age etc. Fair enough. But equally there are those who are just lazy and feckless, happy to live off state benefits. As for "why should people work?". Well maybe out of a sense of social responsibility and good citizenship?
Able bodies adults in good health should work and be required to undertake (re)training to develop skills for the jobs that are available in the area where they live. However, there needs to be a net benefit to the individual where work pays better than benefits otherwise it becomes an economic trap.
I specifically asked about retired people. Why should they rejoin the workforce having already worked 30-40 years and paid their taxes etc? Why can’t they enjoy their retirement?
Sure if they want to retire and have put the years in, why not? But equally why waste all that experience? Work is good for some people. Retirees should be incentivised to re-join the workforce voluntarily.
If people want to work beyond retirement, that’s fine - but don’t grumble at high youth unemployment.
This is getting into a circular debate. So if we have high youth unemployment why do we need an army of migrant workers?
We don’t have particularly high youth unemployment right now, I’m just pointing out that there’s a finite number of jobs and if we all work longer then the youth will find it harder to gain a foothold.
We need EU workers because someone foolishly decided that we should leave the EU despite all the evidence suggesting it was a stupid idea.
My oh my, finite number of jobs we need EU workers, unemployment is not particularly high, what is your point?
I’m not surprised you missed it.
If you have a finite number of jobs (or as we’re about to find out, a falling number of jobs) and those in employment work later in life, what happens to education leavers?
I’m now 100% sure you know nothing about economics or the the progression of technology and how that changes the landscape of the future. You are stuck in the here and now with no grasp of the future, it makes sense"
Fancy answering my question?
Fewer jobs available, existing workforce retiring later. What happens to education leavers?
It’s not a trick question. |
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Tried following the thread.
What exactly is being asked here?
What happens if old people keep on working and young people finish education?
There's circa 800k vacancies.
Plenty to go about in almost every area.
I'm not antirely sure there's going to be much overlap many persons returning currently will be in the tertiary field some quaternary and secondary
Most younger will be searching dor quaternary jobs and quinary( tertiary offshoot)
|
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By (user no longer on site) 43 weeks ago
|
"Tried following the thread.
What exactly is being asked here?
What happens if old people keep on working and young people finish education?
There's circa 800k vacancies.
Plenty to go about in almost every area.
I'm not antirely sure there's going to be much overlap many persons returning currently will be in the tertiary field some quaternary and secondary
Most younger will be searching dor quaternary jobs and quinary( tertiary offshoot)
"
The thread is about how Brexit has proved such an enormous success that reciprocal freedom of movement is being considered to plug the job gaps created by removing reciprocal freedom of movement. |
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By *bernathCouple 43 weeks ago
Gloucestershire |
I think saying this retrospectively is a waste, where we’re the objections to say it then?
Just some typical tory backtracking to place in some memoir saying I did try to fight it (see Matt Hancock), and make them sleep better at night.
The short sighted Brexit that was delivered by the tories is having ramifications which we will all live with for decades to come.
How many years will it take to undo the mess of these charlatans? And how many years are we going to live with high inflation, high interest rates, and a weak economy.
Does this feel like a bright future? Or is this what we deserve for being too proud to admit that we rely on the kindness of strangers to help maintain the lifestyle we’ve grown accustomed to?
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"Tried following the thread.
What exactly is being asked here?
What happens if old people keep on working and young people finish education?
There's circa 800k vacancies.
Plenty to go about in almost every area.
I'm not antirely sure there's going to be much overlap many persons returning currently will be in the tertiary field some quaternary and secondary
Most younger will be searching dor quaternary jobs and quinary( tertiary offshoot)
The thread is about how Brexit has proved such an enormous success that reciprocal freedom of movement is being considered to plug the job gaps created by removing reciprocal freedom of movement."
n part maybe. But it goes deeper than that. Why to we have a constant need for cheap immigrant labour? It begs several questions 1) why can't jobs be filled from within and 2) why don't we invest in automated processes like other countries?
|
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By *otMe66Man 43 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"Tried following the thread.
What exactly is being asked here?
What happens if old people keep on working and young people finish education?
There's circa 800k vacancies.
Plenty to go about in almost every area.
I'm not antirely sure there's going to be much overlap many persons returning currently will be in the tertiary field some quaternary and secondary
Most younger will be searching dor quaternary jobs and quinary( tertiary offshoot)
The thread is about how Brexit has proved such an enormous success that reciprocal freedom of movement is being considered to plug the job gaps created by removing reciprocal freedom of movement.
n part maybe. But it goes deeper than that. Why to we have a constant need for cheap immigrant labour? It begs several questions 1) why can't jobs be filled from within and 2) why don't we invest in automated processes like other countries?
"
What processes need automating? |
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"Tried following the thread.
What exactly is being asked here?
What happens if old people keep on working and young people finish education?
There's circa 800k vacancies.
Plenty to go about in almost every area.
I'm not antirely sure there's going to be much overlap many persons returning currently will be in the tertiary field some quaternary and secondary
Most younger will be searching dor quaternary jobs and quinary( tertiary offshoot)
The thread is about how Brexit has proved such an enormous success that reciprocal freedom of movement is being considered to plug the job gaps created by removing reciprocal freedom of movement.
n part maybe. But it goes deeper than that. Why to we have a constant need for cheap immigrant labour? It begs several questions 1) why can't jobs be filled from within and 2) why don't we invest in automated processes like other countries?
What processes need automating? "
Wherever 'cheap unskilled labour' is used e.g. warehousing, assembly, agriculture - it's possible to automate. Less scope in services and care admittedly. |
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By (user no longer on site) 43 weeks ago
|
"Tried following the thread.
What exactly is being asked here?
What happens if old people keep on working and young people finish education?
There's circa 800k vacancies.
Plenty to go about in almost every area.
I'm not antirely sure there's going to be much overlap many persons returning currently will be in the tertiary field some quaternary and secondary
Most younger will be searching dor quaternary jobs and quinary( tertiary offshoot)
The thread is about how Brexit has proved such an enormous success that reciprocal freedom of movement is being considered to plug the job gaps created by removing reciprocal freedom of movement.
n part maybe. But it goes deeper than that. Why to we have a constant need for cheap immigrant labour? It begs several questions 1) why can't jobs be filled from within and 2) why don't we invest in automated processes like other countries?
What processes need automating?
Wherever 'cheap unskilled labour' is used e.g. warehousing, assembly, agriculture - it's possible to automate. Less scope in services and care admittedly."
Possible, yes. Welcome or beneficial? Debatable, unless we want to have serious grown up conversation about UBI and taking care of a drastically reduced workforce |
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"Tried following the thread.
What exactly is being asked here?
What happens if old people keep on working and young people finish education?
There's circa 800k vacancies.
Plenty to go about in almost every area.
I'm not antirely sure there's going to be much overlap many persons returning currently will be in the tertiary field some quaternary and secondary
Most younger will be searching dor quaternary jobs and quinary( tertiary offshoot)
The thread is about how Brexit has proved such an enormous success that reciprocal freedom of movement is being considered to plug the job gaps created by removing reciprocal freedom of movement.
n part maybe. But it goes deeper than that. Why to we have a constant need for cheap immigrant labour? It begs several questions 1) why can't jobs be filled from within and 2) why don't we invest in automated processes like other countries?
What processes need automating?
Wherever 'cheap unskilled labour' is used e.g. warehousing, assembly, agriculture - it's possible to automate. Less scope in services and care admittedly.
Possible, yes. Welcome or beneficial? Debatable, unless we want to have serious grown up conversation about UBI and taking care of a drastically reduced workforce "
I think beneficial because it creates hi-skill, hi-salary employment and takes us away from dependence on cheap migrant labour. That apart, the workforce will shrink anyway as AI takes jobs. It's inevitable. |
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By (user no longer on site) 43 weeks ago
|
"Tried following the thread.
What exactly is being asked here?
What happens if old people keep on working and young people finish education?
There's circa 800k vacancies.
Plenty to go about in almost every area.
I'm not antirely sure there's going to be much overlap many persons returning currently will be in the tertiary field some quaternary and secondary
Most younger will be searching dor quaternary jobs and quinary( tertiary offshoot)
The thread is about how Brexit has proved such an enormous success that reciprocal freedom of movement is being considered to plug the job gaps created by removing reciprocal freedom of movement.
n part maybe. But it goes deeper than that. Why to we have a constant need for cheap immigrant labour? It begs several questions 1) why can't jobs be filled from within and 2) why don't we invest in automated processes like other countries?
What processes need automating?
Wherever 'cheap unskilled labour' is used e.g. warehousing, assembly, agriculture - it's possible to automate. Less scope in services and care admittedly.
Possible, yes. Welcome or beneficial? Debatable, unless we want to have serious grown up conversation about UBI and taking care of a drastically reduced workforce
I think beneficial because it creates hi-skill, hi-salary employment and takes us away from dependence on cheap migrant labour. That apart, the workforce will shrink anyway as AI takes jobs. It's inevitable."
Not everyone is suited to high skill, high salary employment.
As I say, if automation is inevitable we need to look at universal basic income. It too is inevitable. |
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"Tried following the thread.
What exactly is being asked here?
What happens if old people keep on working and young people finish education?
There's circa 800k vacancies.
Plenty to go about in almost every area.
I'm not antirely sure there's going to be much overlap many persons returning currently will be in the tertiary field some quaternary and secondary
Most younger will be searching dor quaternary jobs and quinary( tertiary offshoot)
The thread is about how Brexit has proved such an enormous success that reciprocal freedom of movement is being considered to plug the job gaps created by removing reciprocal freedom of movement."
It's not being considered by the government. |
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or View forums list | |
"Tried following the thread.
What exactly is being asked here?
What happens if old people keep on working and young people finish education?
There's circa 800k vacancies.
Plenty to go about in almost every area.
I'm not antirely sure there's going to be much overlap many persons returning currently will be in the tertiary field some quaternary and secondary
Most younger will be searching dor quaternary jobs and quinary( tertiary offshoot)
The thread is about how Brexit has proved such an enormous success that reciprocal freedom of movement is being considered to plug the job gaps created by removing reciprocal freedom of movement.
n part maybe. But it goes deeper than that. Why to we have a constant need for cheap immigrant labour? It begs several questions 1) why can't jobs be filled from within and 2) why don't we invest in automated processes like other countries?
"
We have a zombified economy where theye xpectedncheap borrowing to continue and cheap labour and fkr 20myears ran down the equipment on balance sheets instead of investing happy to scrap a living form 1% net profits instead of improving output and productivity and investing and lowering employee numbers required.
|
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By (user no longer on site) 43 weeks ago
|
"Tried following the thread.
What exactly is being asked here?
What happens if old people keep on working and young people finish education?
There's circa 800k vacancies.
Plenty to go about in almost every area.
I'm not antirely sure there's going to be much overlap many persons returning currently will be in the tertiary field some quaternary and secondary
Most younger will be searching dor quaternary jobs and quinary( tertiary offshoot)
The thread is about how Brexit has proved such an enormous success that reciprocal freedom of movement is being considered to plug the job gaps created by removing reciprocal freedom of movement.
It's not being considered by the government."
It’s been suggested by a prominent (and very brexity) MP though. Precisely the sort of talk that would have been shouted down in 2019 as ‘trying to undo Brexit’ or some such nonsense, no?
Are we ready to admit that Brexit has failed yet? |
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or View forums list | |
"Tried following the thread.
What exactly is being asked here?
What happens if old people keep on working and young people finish education?
There's circa 800k vacancies.
Plenty to go about in almost every area.
I'm not antirely sure there's going to be much overlap many persons returning currently will be in the tertiary field some quaternary and secondary
Most younger will be searching dor quaternary jobs and quinary( tertiary offshoot)
The thread is about how Brexit has proved such an enormous success that reciprocal freedom of movement is being considered to plug the job gaps created by removing reciprocal freedom of movement.
n part maybe. But it goes deeper than that. Why to we have a constant need for cheap immigrant labour? It begs several questions 1) why can't jobs be filled from within and 2) why don't we invest in automated processes like other countries?
What processes need automating?
Wherever 'cheap unskilled labour' is used e.g. warehousing, assembly, agriculture - it's possible to automate. Less scope in services and care admittedly.
Possible, yes. Welcome or beneficial? Debatable, unless we want to have serious grown up conversation about UBI and taking care of a drastically reduced workforce
I think beneficial because it creates hi-skill, hi-salary employment and takes us away from dependence on cheap migrant labour. That apart, the workforce will shrink anyway as AI takes jobs. It's inevitable.
Not everyone is suited to high skill, high salary employment.
As I say, if automation is inevitable we need to look at universal basic income. It too is inevitable."
There's a thread in The Lounge about UBI |
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"Tried following the thread.
What exactly is being asked here?
What happens if old people keep on working and young people finish education?
There's circa 800k vacancies.
Plenty to go about in almost every area.
I'm not antirely sure there's going to be much overlap many persons returning currently will be in the tertiary field some quaternary and secondary
Most younger will be searching dor quaternary jobs and quinary( tertiary offshoot)
The thread is about how Brexit has proved such an enormous success that reciprocal freedom of movement is being considered to plug the job gaps created by removing reciprocal freedom of movement.
n part maybe. But it goes deeper than that. Why to we have a constant need for cheap immigrant labour? It begs several questions 1) why can't jobs be filled from within and 2) why don't we invest in automated processes like other countries?
What processes need automating? "
Clipper logistics now xgo. They built a new warehouse in Sheffield which is semi automate where robots pick up packages set to be delivered for asos customers.
The pick rate for human beings is about 700 items per day.
For the robots it's about 2000
They cut the workforce by about 20% in Sheffield.
There are bot tractors that can assess and pick up fruit from vines and trees with technology on board that in a split second assesses if a fruit is ripe for plucking and plucks it. This teaches should be ready very soon.
2 sisters is investing in better machinery for product lines on chickens and red meat to make dicing up carcasses easier and less manual intervention.
On one hand too. They invested 500k in their chicken houses that lay eggs in just putting in windows as research shows windows help hens lay more eggs.
|
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By *irldnCouple 43 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Tried following the thread.
What exactly is being asked here?
What happens if old people keep on working and young people finish education?
There's circa 800k vacancies.
Plenty to go about in almost every area.
I'm not antirely sure there's going to be much overlap many persons returning currently will be in the tertiary field some quaternary and secondary
Most younger will be searching dor quaternary jobs and quinary( tertiary offshoot)
The thread is about how Brexit has proved such an enormous success that reciprocal freedom of movement is being considered to plug the job gaps created by removing reciprocal freedom of movement.
n part maybe. But it goes deeper than that. Why to we have a constant need for cheap immigrant labour? It begs several questions 1) why can't jobs be filled from within and 2) why don't we invest in automated processes like other countries?
What processes need automating?
Clipper logistics now xgo. They built a new warehouse in Sheffield which is semi automate where robots pick up packages set to be delivered for asos customers.
The pick rate for human beings is about 700 items per day.
For the robots it's about 2000
They cut the workforce by about 20% in Sheffield.
There are bot tractors that can assess and pick up fruit from vines and trees with technology on board that in a split second assesses if a fruit is ripe for plucking and plucks it. This teaches should be ready very soon.
2 sisters is investing in better machinery for product lines on chickens and red meat to make dicing up carcasses easier and less manual intervention.
On one hand too. They invested 500k in their chicken houses that lay eggs in just putting in windows as research shows windows help hens lay more eggs.
"
As a slight tangent...chickens who can see sunlight are happier and lay more eggs! Who’d ‘ve thunk it! Any idea how much they paid for that research!!!!! |
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"Tried following the thread.
What exactly is being asked here?
What happens if old people keep on working and young people finish education?
There's circa 800k vacancies.
Plenty to go about in almost every area.
I'm not antirely sure there's going to be much overlap many persons returning currently will be in the tertiary field some quaternary and secondary
Most younger will be searching dor quaternary jobs and quinary( tertiary offshoot)
The thread is about how Brexit has proved such an enormous success that reciprocal freedom of movement is being considered to plug the job gaps created by removing reciprocal freedom of movement.
n part maybe. But it goes deeper than that. Why to we have a constant need for cheap immigrant labour? It begs several questions 1) why can't jobs be filled from within and 2) why don't we invest in automated processes like other countries?
What processes need automating?
Clipper logistics now xgo. They built a new warehouse in Sheffield which is semi automate where robots pick up packages set to be delivered for asos customers.
The pick rate for human beings is about 700 items per day.
For the robots it's about 2000
They cut the workforce by about 20% in Sheffield.
There are bot tractors that can assess and pick up fruit from vines and trees with technology on board that in a split second assesses if a fruit is ripe for plucking and plucks it. This teaches should be ready very soon.
2 sisters is investing in better machinery for product lines on chickens and red meat to make dicing up carcasses easier and less manual intervention.
On one hand too. They invested 500k in their chicken houses that lay eggs in just putting in windows as research shows windows help hens lay more eggs.
As a slight tangent...chickens who can see sunlight are happier and lay more eggs! Who’d ‘ve thunk it! Any idea how much they paid for that research!!!!!"
It was research from America. But I think there have been others in Australia and such re affirming that they apparently lay lighter coloured eggs. Assuming maybe the sunlight does toneggs what it does to carpets?
When talking about hundreds of millions of chickens. Increasing the production of eggs 10% is a radical change
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"90k people in prison, just saying
So you happy for a murderer or a rapist let out for a day to work next to you...?pretty sure majority aint murderers and rap ists why not make use of the ones who are petty crims that way they can pay towards there bed and board
Forced labour, including of prisoners is illegal under the modern sl4very act."
You don't force them you give them the choice,which is why prisoners work in prison without any laws being broken.This particularly applies in open prisons. |
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"Tried following the thread.
What exactly is being asked here?
What happens if old people keep on working and young people finish education?
There's circa 800k vacancies.
Plenty to go about in almost every area.
I'm not antirely sure there's going to be much overlap many persons returning currently will be in the tertiary field some quaternary and secondary
Most younger will be searching dor quaternary jobs and quinary( tertiary offshoot)
The thread is about how Brexit has proved such an enormous success that reciprocal freedom of movement is being considered to plug the job gaps created by removing reciprocal freedom of movement.
It's not being considered by the government.
It’s been suggested by a prominent (and very brexity) MP though. Precisely the sort of talk that would have been shouted down in 2019 as ‘trying to undo Brexit’ or some such nonsense, no?
Are we ready to admit that Brexit has failed yet? "
This isn't Brexit.It has not been delivered.The house of Lords is proportionately remain,therefore delaying/blocking legislation. |
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By *deepdive OP Man 43 weeks ago
France / Birmingham |
"Tried following the thread.
What exactly is being asked here?
What happens if old people keep on working and young people finish education?
There's circa 800k vacancies.
Plenty to go about in almost every area.
I'm not antirely sure there's going to be much overlap many persons returning currently will be in the tertiary field some quaternary and secondary
Most younger will be searching dor quaternary jobs and quinary( tertiary offshoot)
The thread is about how Brexit has proved such an enormous success that reciprocal freedom of movement is being considered to plug the job gaps created by removing reciprocal freedom of movement.
It's not being considered by the government.
It’s been suggested by a prominent (and very brexity) MP though. Precisely the sort of talk that would have been shouted down in 2019 as ‘trying to undo Brexit’ or some such nonsense, no?
Are we ready to admit that Brexit has failed yet?
This isn't Brexit.It has not been delivered.The house of Lords is proportionately remain,therefore delaying/blocking legislation."
Fair enough - but what was Brexit supposed to deliver?
Apart from leaving the EU, what exactly was it supposed to give us as this has never been made clear (in my mind)?
If there is such a list of deliverables, can you reference them against what was actually promised rather than perhaps creating a list in hindsight as surely, the people who voted to leave the EU will have known what these deliverables were.
There are also two parties involved in Brexit, one being the EU.
Neither party is simply going to roll over and give the other exactly what they demand (cake and eat it scenario).
Brexit appears (to me) to be many different things to different people.
People knew what they thought they voted for (I am sure of this) but unfortunately the whole thing was too vague.
It was a different thing to different people - it couldn't be anything else as essentially the vote was to leave the EU them see what that brought us.
Plenty vague promises based on flimsy ideas to pull in voters and plenty of catch phrases but nobody knew what the reality was - not even the politicians.
I am sorry that Brexit was perhaps not what you voted for and perhaps we would be better off had it been but, we are where we are. |
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"It has not been delivered.The house of Lords is proportionately remain,therefore delaying/blocking legislation."
Can you give us an example of a piece of Brexit legislation that has been delayed by the House of Lords? |
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By (user no longer on site) 43 weeks ago
|
"Tried following the thread.
What exactly is being asked here?
What happens if old people keep on working and young people finish education?
There's circa 800k vacancies.
Plenty to go about in almost every area.
I'm not antirely sure there's going to be much overlap many persons returning currently will be in the tertiary field some quaternary and secondary
Most younger will be searching dor quaternary jobs and quinary( tertiary offshoot)
The thread is about how Brexit has proved such an enormous success that reciprocal freedom of movement is being considered to plug the job gaps created by removing reciprocal freedom of movement.
It's not being considered by the government.
It’s been suggested by a prominent (and very brexity) MP though. Precisely the sort of talk that would have been shouted down in 2019 as ‘trying to undo Brexit’ or some such nonsense, no?
Are we ready to admit that Brexit has failed yet?
This isn't Brexit.It has not been delivered.The house of Lords is proportionately remain,therefore delaying/blocking legislation."
Brexit was delivered. We left the EU.
Maybe we shouldn’t vote for things that will be negotiated at a later date. |
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"
This isn't Brexit.It has not been delivered."
Can confirm, we've left the EU. Brexit has definitely happened/been delivered.
However if you mean the specific type of brexit you personally were expecting. Then maybe not. Presumably everyone who voted to leave the EU had their own expectations. Maybe some of them have been met. |
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"90k people in prison, just saying
So you happy for a murderer or a rapist let out for a day to work next to you...?pretty sure majority aint murderers and rap ists why not make use of the ones who are petty crims that way they can pay towards there bed and board
Forced labour, including of prisoners is illegal under the modern sl4very act.
You don't force them you give them the choice,which is why prisoners work in prison without any laws being broken.This particularly applies in open prisons."
Got you. But this is not what was implied. |
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"It has not been delivered.The house of Lords is proportionately remain,therefore delaying/blocking legislation.
Can you give us an example of a piece of Brexit legislation that has been delayed by the House of Lords?"
It would depends on what you meant by blocking. If they time barred it and had it have gone through earlier it would be implemented now rather than be scrapped you can easily see the e.u law ammendment Bill would fall in this category.
Also if its bounced back to parliament an ammendments are made against what the original brexit government proposed. Again you can argue. That's the Lords defeating a brexit bill
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-65605035 |
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By (user no longer on site) 43 weeks ago
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"It has not been delivered.The house of Lords is proportionately remain,therefore delaying/blocking legislation.
Can you give us an example of a piece of Brexit legislation that has been delayed by the House of Lords?
It would depends on what you meant by blocking. If they time barred it and had it have gone through earlier it would be implemented now rather than be scrapped you can easily see the e.u law ammendment Bill would fall in this category.
Also if its bounced back to parliament an ammendments are made against what the original brexit government proposed. Again you can argue. That's the Lords defeating a brexit bill
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-65605035"
The job of the lords is to scrutinise, not to nod everything through. |
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"It has not been delivered.The house of Lords is proportionately remain,therefore delaying/blocking legislation.
Can you give us an example of a piece of Brexit legislation that has been delayed by the House of Lords?
It would depends on what you meant by blocking. If they time barred it and had it have gone through earlier it would be implemented now rather than be scrapped you can easily see the e.u law ammendment Bill would fall in this category.
Also if its bounced back to parliament an ammendments are made against what the original brexit government proposed. Again you can argue. That's the Lords defeating a brexit bill
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-65605035
The job of the lords is to scrutinise, not to nod everything through. "
Not saying it isn't.
I am merely pointing outbthat that scrutiny does prohibit bills going through.
This is what was asked |
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"Here's an idea. Why not motivate a proportion of our own 8.9 mil. economically inactive fellow citizens to fill some jobs? Amongst the advantages : some modest tax revenues, a huge benefits bill saving, less demands on healthcare, schools and housing by migrant workers, national wealth not exported by earnings sent home ...........
Agree in principle but first question we need to ask is why those people are economically inactive?
What is the “net benefit” to them, ie why should they do it?
How does that 8m+ figure break down? Demographics? Geographic location? Health status? Then can those be mapped to the type of work available and location of that work.
For example, If someone has retired early because they can afford to, why should they be pressured to re-enter the workforce?
This is complicated and there are a host of reasons people don't work including personal health, care of dependants, age etc. Fair enough. But equally there are those who are just lazy and feckless, happy to live off state benefits. As for "why should people work?". Well maybe out of a sense of social responsibility and good citizenship?"
Its free money, why should I work. Getting up at midday, then play forza for the rest of the day. Go for a chippy tea, then go down the pub. I can't do that if I am working can I?? |
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