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anti-Semitism and islamophobia
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The Israeli Palestinian (Hamas) issue is so incredibly divisive globally. In our country there have been rises in anti-Semitism and islamophobia.
How can we stay neutral and supportive of all civilians when our own PM says to BN we hope you win? |
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Police in the British capital ramped up patrols amid growing tensions, but said there had been 218 antisemitic offences between Oct. 1 and 18, compared to 15 in the same period in 2022. Islamophobic offences were up to 101, from 42.
The above from Reuters. |
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I really wish politicians would make it clear that there support is there own personal support istead of saying the uk wants you to win, theres a large chunk of people who aint supportin BN or hammas |
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"The Israeli Palestinian (Hamas) issue is so incredibly divisive globally. In our country there have been rises in anti-Semitism and islamophobia.
How can we stay neutral and supportive of all civilians when our own PM says to BN we hope you win?"
Seems pretty straightforward to me.
Judge people based on their character, not their nationality, religion, ethnicity etc.
Don't be afraid to stand up to race hate no matter how much people shout "woke", "snowflake", "loony left" etc at you. |
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By *otMe66Man 28 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"The Israeli Palestinian (Hamas) issue is so incredibly divisive globally. In our country there have been rises in anti-Semitism and islamophobia.
How can we stay neutral and supportive of all civilians when our own PM says to BN we hope you win?"
We can stay neutral when the police arrest and charge those who are walking the streets of our cities chanting anti-Semitic slogans, pulling down posters of missing jewish people, waving isis flags and chanting support for terrorists. Only then can we begin to say we are trying to be neutral. |
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"The Israeli Palestinian (Hamas) issue is so incredibly divisive globally. In our country there have been rises in anti-Semitism and islamophobia.
How can we stay neutral and supportive of all civilians when our own PM says to BN we hope you win?
Seems pretty straightforward to me.
Judge people based on their character, not their nationality, religion, ethnicity etc.
Don't be afraid to stand up to race hate no matter how much people shout "woke", "snowflake", "loony left" etc at you. "
It's rife, even in the threads  .
I don't have a racist bone in my body but sadly, like everyone, I will have un conscious cultural bias. If someone wants to call me a loony woke snowflake - have at it. The world is crazy. |
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"The Israeli Palestinian (Hamas) issue is so incredibly divisive globally. In our country there have been rises in anti-Semitism and islamophobia.
How can we stay neutral and supportive of all civilians when our own PM says to BN we hope you win?
We can stay neutral when the police arrest and charge those who are walking the streets of our cities chanting anti-Semitic slogans, pulling down posters of missing jewish people, waving isis flags and chanting support for terrorists. Only then can we begin to say we are trying to be neutral. "
You've only mentioned crimes against one side, that's hardly neutral. |
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By *otMe66Man 28 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"The Israeli Palestinian (Hamas) issue is so incredibly divisive globally. In our country there have been rises in anti-Semitism and islamophobia.
How can we stay neutral and supportive of all civilians when our own PM says to BN we hope you win?
We can stay neutral when the police arrest and charge those who are walking the streets of our cities chanting anti-Semitic slogans, pulling down posters of missing jewish people, waving isis flags and chanting support for terrorists. Only then can we begin to say we are trying to be neutral.
You've only mentioned crimes against one side, that's hardly neutral."
Got to start somewhere, why not with those that are openly supporting terrorists on our streets and work down through the openly hateful others, whoever they are.
Or shall we shy away, for fear of being labelled racists? That's how the police are behaving as I see it. |
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"The Israeli Palestinian (Hamas) issue is so incredibly divisive globally. In our country there have been rises in anti-Semitism and islamophobia.
How can we stay neutral and supportive of all civilians when our own PM says to BN we hope you win?"
When our PM says to BN I hope you win, I interpret that as I hope you win against Hamas. Perhaps he should have made it clearer to avoid doubt but that's my interpretation. |
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"The Israeli Palestinian (Hamas) issue is so incredibly divisive globally. In our country there have been rises in anti-Semitism and islamophobia.
How can we stay neutral and supportive of all civilians when our own PM says to BN we hope you win?
We can stay neutral when the police arrest and charge those who are walking the streets of our cities chanting anti-Semitic slogans, pulling down posters of missing jewish people, waving isis flags and chanting support for terrorists. Only then can we begin to say we are trying to be neutral. "
see i dont get why the posters of missing Israeli s were put up in the first place its not as if there gona find them in east london, and i wonder why they were put up in a majority muslim area, trying to get that sort of reaction mabey? |
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By *otMe66Man 28 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"The Israeli Palestinian (Hamas) issue is so incredibly divisive globally. In our country there have been rises in anti-Semitism and islamophobia.
How can we stay neutral and supportive of all civilians when our own PM says to BN we hope you win?
When our PM says to BN I hope you win, I interpret that as I hope you win against Hamas. Perhaps he should have made it clearer to avoid doubt but that's my interpretation."
That is exactly what he was saying, the fight against terrorism is supported by the UK.
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By *otMe66Man 28 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"The Israeli Palestinian (Hamas) issue is so incredibly divisive globally. In our country there have been rises in anti-Semitism and islamophobia.
How can we stay neutral and supportive of all civilians when our own PM says to BN we hope you win?
We can stay neutral when the police arrest and charge those who are walking the streets of our cities chanting anti-Semitic slogans, pulling down posters of missing jewish people, waving isis flags and chanting support for terrorists. Only then can we begin to say we are trying to be neutral. see i dont get why the posters of missing Israeli s were put up in the first place its not as if there gona find them in east london, and i wonder why they were put up in a majority muslim area, trying to get that sort of reaction mabey? "
What difference does it make them being up or down?
Why rip them up in hate?
Why are we letting hate go unchecked from whichever side.
I don't know the name of right wing group, and can't be arsed to google one, but we wont stand for their shit, why are we standing around letting others do the same things to each other?
Police this country equally and fairly
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"The Israeli Palestinian (Hamas) issue is so incredibly divisive globally. In our country there have been rises in anti-Semitism and islamophobia.
How can we stay neutral and supportive of all civilians when our own PM says to BN we hope you win?
We can stay neutral when the police arrest and charge those who are walking the streets of our cities chanting anti-Semitic slogans, pulling down posters of missing jewish people, waving isis flags and chanting support for terrorists. Only then can we begin to say we are trying to be neutral. see i dont get why the posters of missing Israeli s were put up in the first place its not as if there gona find them in east london, and i wonder why they were put up in a majority muslim area, trying to get that sort of reaction mabey?
What difference does it make them being up or down?
Why rip them up in hate?
Why are we letting hate go unchecked from whichever side.
I don't know the name of right wing group, and can't be arsed to google one, but we wont stand for their shit, why are we standing around letting others do the same things to each other?
Police this country equally and fairly
"
so you dont think those posters were put up in that area to get a reaction, like i said pointless putting up missing posters of isrealis in east london |
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The problem with most of debates around this topic is that many people get stuck in arguing the definitions of anti-Semitism and Islamophobia.
In my opinion, supporting violence against any group of people should be an offense. On the other hand, it's totally fine to criticise any religion and its followers.
But many people seem to have crossed the line in these debates. Openly wearing pictures of the Hamas paratroopers, attacking jewish schools and synagogues is exactly that. Same with the guy in the US killing the Muslim family.
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By (user no longer on site) 28 weeks ago
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Semite people was a term used to describe member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs.
Nowadays antisemitic seems to mean anti-Jewish.
Most people are not anti-jewish but anti-zionist. That includes many Jews and former members of the IDF.
https://youtu.be/YygzKazX2sw?si=OJPCzdBwLP3Uu1Hu
https://youtu.be/0Mj4OpHEmzk?si=QtAJbpTKNxf_xErL |
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"The Israeli Palestinian (Hamas) issue is so incredibly divisive globally. In our country there have been rises in anti-Semitism and islamophobia.
How can we stay neutral and supportive of all civilians when our own PM says to BN we hope you win?
When our PM says to BN I hope you win, I interpret that as I hope you win against Hamas. Perhaps he should have made it clearer to avoid doubt but that's my interpretation."
It just didn't need saying |
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"Semite people was a term used to describe member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs.
Nowadays antisemitic seems to mean anti-Jewish.
"
That is an oversimplification that loses a lot of context. Antisemitism as a term has always been specifically about anti Jewish sentiment. The use of the term "Semitism" was to underscore racial rationale for their inferiority (there are many sources, but Wikipedia puts it succinctly). It was never intended to include anyone else, and has never really meant anything else. It might seem like semantics, but this is at the core of Western anti-Semitism, which follows years of discrimination at the hands of the church and governments.
In contrast, Islamophobia (as a term) developed more in the vein of "xenophobia towards Muslims". It is somewhat newer in terms of Western parlance. Established anti Islam sentiment in Europe was rampant but different (no less bloody, until the Holocaust).
Both are reprehensible and cause horrific suffering. But their modern manifestation and extensive history are extremely different.
"
Most people are not anti-jewish but anti-zionist. That includes many Jews and former members of the IDF.
"
Wow.
That statement is about as informed as a straight male in Texas saying that "transphobia is not a real thing; sexualising children is all we stand against".
Do you think "most Jews" would agree with you (this is important)? Could "most people" even define "Zionist" in a way that "most Zionists" would agree with them? Certainly, the designated spokespeople for "most Jews" (Jewish Board of Deputies in the UK, as well as other bodies elsewhere) are hugely concerned about the conflation of "Jew" and "Zionist" in order to justify anti-Semitism. Just like how people conflate "Arab", "Muslim" and "terrorist", which is patiently tragic.
Many Jews feel scared in many areas of the world (and UK) simply because they are Jewish, before anyone has asked them about their politics.
Most importantly, is this the lived experience of most Jews (not just the ones who speak or against Israel)? |
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By *irldnCouple 28 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Semite people was a term used to describe member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs.
Nowadays antisemitic seems to mean anti-Jewish.
That is an oversimplification that loses a lot of context. Antisemitism as a term has always been specifically about anti Jewish sentiment. The use of the term "Semitism" was to underscore racial rationale for their inferiority (there are many sources, but Wikipedia puts it succinctly). It was never intended to include anyone else, and has never really meant anything else. It might seem like semantics, but this is at the core of Western anti-Semitism, which follows years of discrimination at the hands of the church and governments.
In contrast, Islamophobia (as a term) developed more in the vein of "xenophobia towards Muslims". It is somewhat newer in terms of Western parlance. Established anti Islam sentiment in Europe was rampant but different (no less bloody, until the Holocaust).
Both are reprehensible and cause horrific suffering. But their modern manifestation and extensive history are extremely different.
Most people are not anti-jewish but anti-zionist. That includes many Jews and former members of the IDF.
Wow.
That statement is about as informed as a straight male in Texas saying that "transphobia is not a real thing; sexualising children is all we stand against".
Do you think "most Jews" would agree with you (this is important)? Could "most people" even define "Zionist" in a way that "most Zionists" would agree with them? Certainly, the designated spokespeople for "most Jews" (Jewish Board of Deputies in the UK, as well as other bodies elsewhere) are hugely concerned about the conflation of "Jew" and "Zionist" in order to justify anti-Semitism. Just like how people conflate "Arab", "Muslim" and "terrorist", which is patiently tragic.
Many Jews feel scared in many areas of the world (and UK) simply because they are Jewish, before anyone has asked them about their politics.
Most importantly, is this the lived experience of most Jews (not just the ones who speak or against Israel)?"
As you say, it is highly complicated.
Of course around the world many people conflate Israeli politics and Zionism and Judaism. Of course people have been persecuted simply for being Jewish regardless of their politics and views regarding Israel.
But that doesn’t make a statement like “being critical of the Israeli Govt and policies is not being anti-semitic” untrue, especially as Israel is neither a theocracy (officially) or all Israelis being of a single racial type.
I am critical of the Israeli Govt (for avoidance of doubt I am also disgusted with the actions of Hamas) but it would be rather difficult (and weird) to be anti-semitic when my maternal grandmother was a French Jew who escaped the Nazis.
My point is we need to move away from binary tribalist views prevalent in the world these days. It is far more complex in reality. |
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By *abioMan 28 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Clinging to toxic religions that encourage hate, mistrust and violence doesn't help."
I agree with you…. The Old Testament is horrendous
Oh… is that not the one you meant!  |
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"But that doesn’t make a statement like “being critical of the Israeli Govt and policies is not being anti-semitic” untrue, especially as Israel is neither a theocracy (officially) or all Israelis being of a single racial type."
Absolutely this. In fact, Israel itself was bitterly divided for/against their government on multiple issues, in a close to 50/50 split. Everyone has a right to criticise any government (even when most of their understanding comes from social media echo chambers). People are also perfectly within their rights to say "that religion is wrong, counterproductive and (it then follows) that its followers are misguided". But how far can we take this right to an opinion? Can we then say "all followers of a given religion are terrorists? Money hungry? Violent? Control the media?". Do we have the right to hold that opinion? Do we have the right to voice that opinion? Privately? Publicly?
"My point is we need to move away from binary tribalist views prevalent in the world these days. It is far more complex in reality. "
Absolutely we should. Absolutely it is.
But can we really? |
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"The Israeli Palestinian (Hamas) issue is so incredibly divisive globally. In our country there have been rises in anti-Semitism and islamophobia.
How can we stay neutral and supportive of all civilians when our own PM says to BN we hope you win?
When our PM says to BN I hope you win, I interpret that as I hope you win against Hamas. Perhaps he should have made it clearer to avoid doubt but that's my interpretation.
It just didn't need saying"
Why not. Whats wrong to show support for a country fighting Hamas. |
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"The Israeli Palestinian (Hamas) issue is so incredibly divisive globally. In our country there have been rises in anti-Semitism and islamophobia.
How can we stay neutral and supportive of all civilians when our own PM says to BN we hope you win?
When our PM says to BN I hope you win, I interpret that as I hope you win against Hamas. Perhaps he should have made it clearer to avoid doubt but that's my interpretation.
It just didn't need saying
Why not. Whats wrong to show support for a country fighting Hamas. "
I think what Sunak and Netanyahu see as the end game or the win differs, Sunak had pledged support and has to be fair reiterated that international law etc must be observed in this conflict but he's set himself up by his use of what he said..
Seemed a bit naive to say it when he was then going to meet other regional leaders ..
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"The Israeli Palestinian (Hamas) issue is so incredibly divisive globally. In our country there have been rises in anti-Semitism and islamophobia.
How can we stay neutral and supportive of all civilians when our own PM says to BN we hope you win?
When our PM says to BN I hope you win, I interpret that as I hope you win against Hamas. Perhaps he should have made it clearer to avoid doubt but that's my interpretation.
It just didn't need saying
Why not. Whats wrong to show support for a country fighting Hamas. "
The support had already been stated. |
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"Clinging to toxic religions that encourage hate, mistrust and violence doesn't help.
I agree with you…. The Old Testament is horrendous
Oh… is that not the one you meant! "
I meant ALL religion. More especially the 3 Abrahamic faiths foisted on us by The Middle East. |
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"Clinging to toxic religions that encourage hate, mistrust and violence doesn't help.
I agree with you…. The Old Testament is horrendous
Oh… is that not the one you meant!
I meant ALL religion. More especially the 3 Abrahamic faiths foisted on us by The Middle East."
Errrrm may have started there (as Abraham was born there) but the Romans gave us Christianity. |
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"Clinging to toxic religions that encourage hate, mistrust and violence doesn't help.
I agree with you…. The Old Testament is horrendous
Oh… is that not the one you meant!
I meant ALL religion. More especially the 3 Abrahamic faiths foisted on us by The Middle East."
Most religions have had their share of terrible things, each to a different extent. The only exception is probably Jainism.
This is exactly why one's religious views should never have any special protection from verbal criticism. Religions should be treated like any other ideologies. |
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By *irldnCouple 28 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Clinging to toxic religions that encourage hate, mistrust and violence doesn't help.
I agree with you…. The Old Testament is horrendous
Oh… is that not the one you meant!
I meant ALL religion. More especially the 3 Abrahamic faiths foisted on us by The Middle East.
Errrrm may have started there (as Abraham was born there) but the Romans gave us Christianity."
Catholicism yes. But there are other forms of Christianity that did not have their roots in Rome. Look up Coptic Christians for starters. |
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"Clinging to toxic religions that encourage hate, mistrust and violence doesn't help.
I agree with you…. The Old Testament is horrendous
Oh… is that not the one you meant!
I meant ALL religion. More especially the 3 Abrahamic faiths foisted on us by The Middle East.
Errrrm may have started there (as Abraham was born there) but the Romans gave us Christianity.
Catholicism yes. But there are other forms of Christianity that did not have their roots in Rome. Look up Coptic Christians for starters."
yes, rather remiss of me.
Just indicating Europe had a hand in it  |
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"The Israeli Palestinian (Hamas) issue is so incredibly divisive globally. In our country there have been rises in anti-Semitism and islamophobia.
How can we stay neutral and supportive of all civilians when our own PM says to BN we hope you win?"
Maybe 40 year's ago we may have been able to stay neutral as for the large part we were a largely Christian country.
We are now a very multi faith society with many choosing to be agnostic or atheist.
But we can't turn a blind eye to hate and murder but just like other conflicts is it our place to meddle in the politics of other countries??
Maybe not but as GB was partly responsible for alot of the problems starting from 1948 I do think there has to be a diplomatic responsibility.
But the government will side with whatever the USA says regardless of what the public want.
I don't think we have ever been a country that stays neutral in conflicts. |
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By *irldnCouple 28 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Clinging to toxic religions that encourage hate, mistrust and violence doesn't help.
I agree with you…. The Old Testament is horrendous
Oh… is that not the one you meant!
I meant ALL religion. More especially the 3 Abrahamic faiths foisted on us by The Middle East.
Errrrm may have started there (as Abraham was born there) but the Romans gave us Christianity.
Catholicism yes. But there are other forms of Christianity that did not have their roots in Rome. Look up Coptic Christians for starters.
yes, rather remiss of me.
Just indicating Europe had a hand in it "
 just to be pedantic the Coptic Christians had nothing to do with Europe |
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"Clinging to toxic religions that encourage hate, mistrust and violence doesn't help.
I agree with you…. The Old Testament is horrendous
Oh… is that not the one you meant!
I meant ALL religion. More especially the 3 Abrahamic faiths foisted on us by The Middle East.
Errrrm may have started there (as Abraham was born there) but the Romans gave us Christianity.
Catholicism yes. But there are other forms of Christianity that did not have their roots in Rome. Look up Coptic Christians for starters.
yes, rather remiss of me.
Just indicating Europe had a hand in it
just to be pedantic the Coptic Christians had nothing to do with Europe "
I was staying with the Romans, which you know dontcha? 
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"The Israeli Palestinian (Hamas) issue is so incredibly divisive globally. In our country there have been rises in anti-Semitism and islamophobia.
How can we stay neutral and supportive of all civilians when our own PM says to BN we hope you win?
When our PM says to BN I hope you win, I interpret that as I hope you win against Hamas. Perhaps he should have made it clearer to avoid doubt but that's my interpretation.
It just didn't need saying
Why not. Whats wrong to show support for a country fighting Hamas.
The support had already been stated."
So no problem at all then in repeating it |
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"The Israeli Palestinian (Hamas) issue is so incredibly divisive globally. In our country there have been rises in anti-Semitism and islamophobia.
How can we stay neutral and supportive of all civilians when our own PM says to BN we hope you win?
When our PM says to BN I hope you win, I interpret that as I hope you win against Hamas. Perhaps he should have made it clearer to avoid doubt but that's my interpretation.
It just didn't need saying
Why not. Whats wrong to show support for a country fighting Hamas.
The support had already been stated.
So no problem at all then in repeating it"
We'll agree to disagree |
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By (user no longer on site) 28 weeks ago
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"Has anyone said that criticism of the Israeli government amounts to an anti-Semitic act. "
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/a-definition-of-antisemitism
This part
In addition, such manifestations could also target the state of Israel, |
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"Has anyone said that criticism of the Israeli government amounts to an anti-Semitic act.
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/a-definition-of-antisemitism
This part
In addition, such manifestations could also target the state of Israel, "
I was meaning on here but I could have been clearer
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"The Israeli Palestinian (Hamas) issue is so incredibly divisive globally. In our country there have been rises in anti-Semitism and islamophobia.
How can we stay neutral and supportive of all civilians when our own PM says to BN we hope you win?
When our PM says to BN I hope you win, I interpret that as I hope you win against Hamas. Perhaps he should have made it clearer to avoid doubt but that's my interpretation.
It just didn't need saying
Why not. Whats wrong to show support for a country fighting Hamas.
The support had already been stated.
So no problem at all then in repeating it
We'll agree to disagree"
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"Clinging to toxic religions that encourage hate, mistrust and violence doesn't help.
I agree with you…. The Old Testament is horrendous
Oh… is that not the one you meant!
I meant ALL religion. More especially the 3 Abrahamic faiths foisted on us by The Middle East.
Errrrm may have started there (as Abraham was born there) but the Romans gave us Christianity."
Indeed. We in Europe, and much of the World, are lumbered with Middle East hocus pocus through a single Roman Emperor (Constantine) who converted to Christianity. Thanks a bunch. |
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By *irldnCouple 28 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Clinging to toxic religions that encourage hate, mistrust and violence doesn't help.
I agree with you…. The Old Testament is horrendous
Oh… is that not the one you meant!
I meant ALL religion. More especially the 3 Abrahamic faiths foisted on us by The Middle East.
Errrrm may have started there (as Abraham was born there) but the Romans gave us Christianity.
Indeed. We in Europe, and much of the World, are lumbered with Middle East hocus pocus through a single Roman Emperor (Constantine) who converted to Christianity. Thanks a bunch."
An early example of populist policy politics  |
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"Indeed. We in Europe, and much of the World, are lumbered with Middle East hocus pocus through a single Roman Emperor (Constantine) who converted to Christianity. Thanks a bunch."
Now, now...
Look at what Christianity replaced!
Imagine what those practices might have evolved into!! |
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"Indeed. We in Europe, and much of the World, are lumbered with Middle East hocus pocus through a single Roman Emperor (Constantine) who converted to Christianity. Thanks a bunch.
Now, now...
Look at what Christianity replaced!
Imagine what those practices might have evolved into!!"
Our forebears peacefully worshipped the sun, moon and nature's fertility. They didn't go around promoting holy wars in the name of some abstract God. |
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"Our forebears peacefully worshipped the sun, moon and nature's fertility. They didn't go around promoting holy wars in the name of some abstract God."
Pre-Christian Romans were peace-loving hippies, not one of the most bloodthirsty empires in world history.
Vikings, pre-Christianity, were happy little forest-dancing druids, not warmongering at all, and certainly never in Odin's name, or to get to Valhalla, sword-in-hand.
And the British Isles, pre-Christianity, were peacefully settled in all waves, respecting the rights of the indigenous populations. We know very little about Druids. Some will say that they practiced cannibalism and human sacrifice and others that they "peacefully worshipped the sun, moon and nature's fertility". We do know with certainty that we can't say either with certainty.
UNLESS your argument is that these earlier religions would be preferable as they would simply crumble under modern scientific scrutiny, whereas Christianity is abstract and inscrutable enough to have at least ambiguous answers to everything. |
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By *irldnCouple 28 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Our forebears peacefully worshipped the sun, moon and nature's fertility. They didn't go around promoting holy wars in the name of some abstract God.
Pre-Christian Romans were peace-loving hippies, not one of the most bloodthirsty empires in world history.
Vikings, pre-Christianity, were happy little forest-dancing druids, not warmongering at all, and certainly never in Odin's name, or to get to Valhalla, sword-in-hand.
And the British Isles, pre-Christianity, were peacefully settled in all waves, respecting the rights of the indigenous populations. We know very little about Druids. Some will say that they practiced cannibalism and human sacrifice and others that they "peacefully worshipped the sun, moon and nature's fertility". We do know with certainty that we can't say either with certainty.
UNLESS your argument is that these earlier religions would be preferable as they would simply crumble under modern scientific scrutiny, whereas Christianity is abstract and inscrutable enough to have at least ambiguous answers to everything."
Ah but the Romans loved an orgy so not all bad! |
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"Our forebears peacefully worshipped the sun, moon and nature's fertility. They didn't go around promoting holy wars in the name of some abstract God.
Pre-Christian Romans were peace-loving hippies, not one of the most bloodthirsty empires in world history.
Vikings, pre-Christianity, were happy little forest-dancing druids, not warmongering at all, and certainly never in Odin's name, or to get to Valhalla, sword-in-hand.
And the British Isles, pre-Christianity, were peacefully settled in all waves, respecting the rights of the indigenous populations. We know very little about Druids. Some will say that they practiced cannibalism and human sacrifice and others that they "peacefully worshipped the sun, moon and nature's fertility". We do know with certainty that we can't say either with certainty.
UNLESS your argument is that these earlier religions would be preferable as they would simply crumble under modern scientific scrutiny, whereas Christianity is abstract and inscrutable enough to have at least ambiguous answers to everything."
Well it's no less credible to worship the sun, moon and nature than it is some God in the sky. The former I can witness every day, the latter I have to take some self-anointed priests word for. |
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"Our forebears peacefully worshipped the sun, moon and nature's fertility. They didn't go around promoting holy wars in the name of some abstract God.
Pre-Christian Romans were peace-loving hippies, not one of the most bloodthirsty empires in world history.
Vikings, pre-Christianity, were happy little forest-dancing druids, not warmongering at all, and certainly never in Odin's name, or to get to Valhalla, sword-in-hand.
And the British Isles, pre-Christianity, were peacefully settled in all waves, respecting the rights of the indigenous populations. We know very little about Druids. Some will say that they practiced cannibalism and human sacrifice and others that they "peacefully worshipped the sun, moon and nature's fertility". We do know with certainty that we can't say either with certainty.
UNLESS your argument is that these earlier religions would be preferable as they would simply crumble under modern scientific scrutiny, whereas Christianity is abstract and inscrutable enough to have at least ambiguous answers to everything.
Well it's no less credible to worship the sun, moon and nature than it is some God in the sky. The former I can witness every day, the latter I have to take some self-anointed priests word for."
You cannot "witness" oxygen |
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By *hagTonightMan 28 weeks ago
From the land of haribos. |
"The Israeli Palestinian (Hamas) issue is so incredibly divisive globally. In our country there have been rises in anti-Semitism and islamophobia.
How can we stay neutral and supportive of all civilians when our own PM says to BN we hope you win?
When our PM says to BN I hope you win, I interpret that as I hope you win against Hamas. Perhaps he should have made it clearer to avoid doubt but that's my interpretation.
It just didn't need saying
Why not. Whats wrong to show support for a country fighting Hamas.
The support had already been stated.
So no problem at all then in repeating it
We'll agree to disagree
"
This and I wonder why the media are reporting it as israel against hamas, we all know that it is hamas against israel and no, there is nothing wrong to show support to israel |
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By (user no longer on site) 28 weeks ago
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"The Israeli Palestinian (Hamas) issue is so incredibly divisive globally. In our country there have been rises in anti-Semitism and islamophobia.
How can we stay neutral and supportive of all civilians when our own PM says to BN we hope you win?
When our PM says to BN I hope you win, I interpret that as I hope you win against Hamas. Perhaps he should have made it clearer to avoid doubt but that's my interpretation.
It just didn't need saying
Why not. Whats wrong to show support for a country fighting Hamas.
The support had already been stated.
So no problem at all then in repeating it
We'll agree to disagree
This and I wonder why the media are reporting it as israel against hamas, we all know that it is hamas against israel and no, there is nothing wrong to show support to israel "
I see the 18th most powerful military in the world saying they are attacking a bunch of religious nuts, but either
A) have the worst aim having killed 10 of the religious nuts and 5,781 people excluding religious nuts ( 63% of which are women or children)
B) committing a genocide, trying to force people into the south so they can bomb them there
C)An occupying force that will never return the land once the ethnic cleansing has occured |
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"The Israeli Palestinian (Hamas) issue is so incredibly divisive globally. In our country there have been rises in anti-Semitism and islamophobia.
How can we stay neutral and supportive of all civilians when our own PM says to BN we hope you win?
When our PM says to BN I hope you win, I interpret that as I hope you win against Hamas. Perhaps he should have made it clearer to avoid doubt but that's my interpretation.
It just didn't need saying
Why not. Whats wrong to show support for a country fighting Hamas.
The support had already been stated.
So no problem at all then in irepeating it
We'll agree to disagree
This and I wonder why the media are reporting it as israel against hamas, we all know that it is hamas against israel and no, there is nothing wrong to show support to israel
I see the 18th most powerful military in the world saying they are attacking a bunch of religious nuts, but either
A) have the worst aim having killed 10 of the religious nuts and 5,781 people excluding religious nuts ( 63% of which are women or children)
B) committing a genocide, trying to force people into the south so they can bomb them there
C)An occupying force that will never return the land once the ethnic cleansing has occured"
Selective.... and written from behind a very selective keyboard.
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"Our forebears peacefully worshipped the sun, moon and nature's fertility. They didn't go around promoting holy wars in the name of some abstract God.
Pre-Christian Romans were peace-loving hippies, not one of the most bloodthirsty empires in world history.
Vikings, pre-Christianity, were happy little forest-dancing druids, not warmongering at all, and certainly never in Odin's name, or to get to Valhalla, sword-in-hand.
And the British Isles, pre-Christianity, were peacefully settled in all waves, respecting the rights of the indigenous populations. We know very little about Druids. Some will say that they practiced cannibalism and human sacrifice and others that they "peacefully worshipped the sun, moon and nature's fertility". We do know with certainty that we can't say either with certainty.
UNLESS your argument is that these earlier religions would be preferable as they would simply crumble under modern scientific scrutiny, whereas Christianity is abstract and inscrutable enough to have at least ambiguous answers to everything.
Well it's no less credible to worship the sun, moon and nature than it is some God in the sky. The former I can witness every day, the latter I have to take some self-anointed priests word for.
You cannot "witness" oxygen"
Take it away & see what happens, i’d say you can quite easily witness oxygen.
S |
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"Our forebears peacefully worshipped the sun, moon and nature's fertility. They didn't go around promoting holy wars in the name of some abstract God.
Pre-Christian Romans were peace-loving hippies, not one of the most bloodthirsty empires in world history.
Vikings, pre-Christianity, were happy little forest-dancing druids, not warmongering at all, and certainly never in Odin's name, or to get to Valhalla, sword-in-hand.
And the British Isles, pre-Christianity, were peacefully settled in all waves, respecting the rights of the indigenous populations. We know very little about Druids. Some will say that they practiced cannibalism and human sacrifice and others that they "peacefully worshipped the sun, moon and nature's fertility". We do know with certainty that we can't say either with certainty.
UNLESS your argument is that these earlier religions would be preferable as they would simply crumble under modern scientific scrutiny, whereas Christianity is abstract and inscrutable enough to have at least ambiguous answers to everything.
Well it's no less credible to worship the sun, moon and nature than it is some God in the sky. The former I can witness every day, the latter I have to take some self-anointed priests word for.
You cannot "witness" oxygen
Take it away & see what happens, i’d say you can quite easily witness oxygen.
S"
Since generically witness equates to seeing, are you saying that hypoxia causes you to see the lack of oxygen?  |
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"Our forebears peacefully worshipped the sun, moon and nature's fertility. They didn't go around promoting holy wars in the name of some abstract God.
Pre-Christian Romans were peace-loving hippies, not one of the most bloodthirsty empires in world history.
Vikings, pre-Christianity, were happy little forest-dancing druids, not warmongering at all, and certainly never in Odin's name, or to get to Valhalla, sword-in-hand.
And the British Isles, pre-Christianity, were peacefully settled in all waves, respecting the rights of the indigenous populations. We know very little about Druids. Some will say that they practiced cannibalism and human sacrifice and others that they "peacefully worshipped the sun, moon and nature's fertility". We do know with certainty that we can't say either with certainty.
UNLESS your argument is that these earlier religions would be preferable as they would simply crumble under modern scientific scrutiny, whereas Christianity is abstract and inscrutable enough to have at least ambiguous answers to everything.
Well it's no less credible to worship the sun, moon and nature than it is some God in the sky. The former I can witness every day, the latter I have to take some self-anointed priests word for.
You cannot "witness" oxygen
Take it away & see what happens, i’d say you can quite easily witness oxygen.
S
Since generically witness equates to seeing, are you saying that hypoxia causes you to see the lack of oxygen? "
If people can say “As God is my witness” then I can say “I see oxygen”
S |
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"Our forebears peacefully worshipped the sun, moon and nature's fertility. They didn't go around promoting holy wars in the name of some abstract God.
Pre-Christian Romans were peace-loving hippies, not one of the most bloodthirsty empires in world history.
Vikings, pre-Christianity, were happy little forest-dancing druids, not warmongering at all, and certainly never in Odin's name, or to get to Valhalla, sword-in-hand.
And the British Isles, pre-Christianity, were peacefully settled in all waves, respecting the rights of the indigenous populations. We know very little about Druids. Some will say that they practiced cannibalism and human sacrifice and others that they "peacefully worshipped the sun, moon and nature's fertility". We do know with certainty that we can't say either with certainty.
UNLESS your argument is that these earlier religions would be preferable as they would simply crumble under modern scientific scrutiny, whereas Christianity is abstract and inscrutable enough to have at least ambiguous answers to everything.
Well it's no less credible to worship the sun, moon and nature than it is some God in the sky. The former I can witness every day, the latter I have to take some self-anointed priests word for.
You cannot "witness" oxygen
Take it away & see what happens, i’d say you can quite easily witness oxygen.
S
Since generically witness equates to seeing, are you saying that hypoxia causes you to see the lack of oxygen?
If people can say “As God is my witness” then I can say “I see oxygen”
S"
If people are breathing then oxygen is being 'witnessed', no one said they could 'see' it. |
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"Our forebears peacefully worshipped the sun, moon and nature's fertility. They didn't go around promoting holy wars in the name of some abstract God.
Pre-Christian Romans were peace-loving hippies, not one of the most bloodthirsty empires in world history.
Vikings, pre-Christianity, were happy little forest-dancing druids, not warmongering at all, and certainly never in Odin's name, or to get to Valhalla, sword-in-hand.
And the British Isles, pre-Christianity, were peacefully settled in all waves, respecting the rights of the indigenous populations. We know very little about Druids. Some will say that they practiced cannibalism and human sacrifice and others that they "peacefully worshipped the sun, moon and nature's fertility". We do know with certainty that we can't say either with certainty.
UNLESS your argument is that these earlier religions would be preferable as they would simply crumble under modern scientific scrutiny, whereas Christianity is abstract and inscrutable enough to have at least ambiguous answers to everything.
Well it's no less credible to worship the sun, moon and nature than it is some God in the sky. The former I can witness every day, the latter I have to take some self-anointed priests word for.
You cannot "witness" oxygen
Take it away & see what happens, i’d say you can quite easily witness oxygen.
S
Since generically witness equates to seeing, are you saying that hypoxia causes you to see the lack of oxygen?
If people can say “As God is my witness” then I can say “I see oxygen”
S"
Point kind of taken. However, god can see us but we cannot see God. |
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"Our forebears peacefully worshipped the sun, moon and nature's fertility. They didn't go around promoting holy wars in the name of some abstract God.
Pre-Christian Romans were peace-loving hippies, not one of the most bloodthirsty empires in world history.
Vikings, pre-Christianity, were happy little forest-dancing druids, not warmongering at all, and certainly never in Odin's name, or to get to Valhalla, sword-in-hand.
And the British Isles, pre-Christianity, were peacefully settled in all waves, respecting the rights of the indigenous populations. We know very little about Druids. Some will say that they practiced cannibalism and human sacrifice and others that they "peacefully worshipped the sun, moon and nature's fertility". We do know with certainty that we can't say either with certainty.
UNLESS your argument is that these earlier religions would be preferable as they would simply crumble under modern scientific scrutiny, whereas Christianity is abstract and inscrutable enough to have at least ambiguous answers to everything.
Well it's no less credible to worship the sun, moon and nature than it is some God in the sky. The former I can witness every day, the latter I have to take some self-anointed priests word for.
You cannot "witness" oxygen
Take it away & see what happens, i’d say you can quite easily witness oxygen.
S
Since generically witness equates to seeing, are you saying that hypoxia causes you to see the lack of oxygen?
If people can say “As God is my witness” then I can say “I see oxygen”
S
If people are breathing then oxygen is being 'witnessed', no one said they could 'see' it. "
I've stated my point |
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"If people are breathing then oxygen is being 'witnessed', no one said they could 'see' it. "
Other than CO2, humans can breathe any non-toxic gas quite happily for a few minutes. In fact they can breathe a carbon monoxide atmosphere for quite a long time before dying.
Humans are not capable of detecting the presence, or absence, or oxygen. |
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