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Homeless to be criminalised for causing a nuisance
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Police in England and Wales to be given powers to fine homeless people deemed to be causing a ‘nuisance’
Under proposals that form part of the UK government’s flagship crime bill, police in England and Wales are to be given powers to fine or move on rough sleepers deemed to be causing a “nuisance”.
Homelessness has increased significantly under the tories. |
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"The police have always had this power haven't they? "
Correct they have.
Under the Vagrancy Act 1824.
The government will repeal this act if they haven't already and maybe this is the replacement act.
The Police hardly use this legislation unless antisocial behaviour is involved. |
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By *otMe66Man 5 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"What kind of government seeks to criminalise homelessness…
When this could happen to anybody….
"
Maybe it is not people who are homeless, but those who choose to live on the streets, which is a thing. |
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"What kind of government seeks to criminalise homelessness…
When this could happen to anybody….
Maybe it is not people who are homeless, but those who choose to live on the streets, which is a thing."
Is that a big problem? Or just shite made up by the right wing media to demonise homeless people. |
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According to crisis
If the Criminal Justice Bill is passed, it would make so-called ‘nuisance’ rough sleeping a criminal offence. The Bill says someone could be considered a ‘nuisance’ if they are sleeping in a doorway, if they have ‘excessive smell’, or even if they simply look like they are intending to sleep on the streets.
Arrested for smelling. Or intending to sleep (not just sleeping).
Life choices. |
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"What kind of government seeks to criminalise homelessness…
When this could happen to anybody….
Maybe it is not people who are homeless, but those who choose to live on the streets, which is a thing.
Is that a big problem? Or just shite made up by the right wing media to demonise homeless people."
I know people who choose to live this way so yes, it's a thing Johnny, you can't blame everything you don't understand on the right |
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"What kind of government seeks to criminalise homelessness…
When this could happen to anybody….
Maybe it is not people who are homeless, but those who choose to live on the streets, which is a thing.
Is that a big problem? Or just shite made up by the right wing media to demonise homeless people.
I know people who choose to live this way so yes, "
Why do they choose to be homeless?
"
it's a thing Johnny, you can't blame everything you don't understand on the right "
I didn't. |
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I wonder what idiot came up with this idea.
Usually, those who have found themselves homeless don't have two pennies to rub together, so exactly where do the geniuses who came up with this hairbrained idea think they're going to find the money to pay such a fine.
Far better to support schemes to get these poor individuals off the streets and into some form of temporary accommodation in order that they can get themselves back on their feet. |
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By *otMe66Man 5 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"I wonder what idiot came up with this idea.
Usually, those who have found themselves homeless don't have two pennies to rub together, so exactly where do the geniuses who came up with this hairbrained idea think they're going to find the money to pay such a fine.
Far better to support schemes to get these poor individuals off the streets and into some form of temporary accommodation in order that they can get themselves back on their feet."
And if they don't accept the help and continue to live on the streets, what then?
where is the line drawn when living on the street is by choice? |
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“A former rough sleeper has told the homelessness minister not enough is being done to help people on the streets who he said were given “false hope” when the Government stepped up help temporarily during the pandemic.
Felicity Buchan insisted tackling homelessness remains a “huge priority” for the Conservative Party, but acknowledged that a rise in rough sleeping confirmed by official figures last week was “disappointing”.
Statistics showed that 3,898 people were estimated to be sleeping rough on a single night in autumn 2023 in England – a rise of 27% from 2022 and an increase of 2,130 people since 2010 when the snapshot data was first recorded.
Homelessness has doubled in last 14 years, so it has not been a ‘huge priority’. |
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"I wonder what idiot came up with this idea.
Usually, those who have found themselves homeless don't have two pennies to rub together, so exactly where do the geniuses who came up with this hairbrained idea think they're going to find the money to pay such a fine.
Far better to support schemes to get these poor individuals off the streets and into some form of temporary accommodation in order that they can get themselves back on their feet.
And if they don't accept the help and continue to live on the streets, what then?
where is the line drawn when living on the street is by choice? "
This seems like the ultimate straw man. Punish all homeless people, in case some extremely unlikely scenario happens with one or two individuals.
Surely we should legislate for the normal situation, not for some bizarre outlier. |
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By *os19Man 5 weeks ago
Edmonton |
Ok so you decide to fine a homeless person.Chances are that homeless person has no income unless claiming benefits so their benefit gets reduced to pay the fine at £5-£10 per month.If they are not claiming benefits or have a income how does that person pay the fine.It doesn’t make any sense imposing a fine on a homeless person to me. |
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"I wonder what idiot came up with this idea.
Usually, those who have found themselves homeless don't have two pennies to rub together, so exactly where do the geniuses who came up with this hairbrained idea think they're going to find the money to pay such a fine.
Far better to support schemes to get these poor individuals off the streets and into some form of temporary accommodation in order that they can get themselves back on their feet.
And if they don't accept the help and continue to live on the streets, what then?
where is the line drawn when living on the street is by choice?
This seems like the ultimate straw man. Punish all homeless people, in case some extremely unlikely scenario happens with one or two individuals.
Surely we should legislate for the normal situation, not for some bizarre outlier. "
You just need to open your eyes to see how many are under the influence and you'll know it's not an extremely unlikely scenario.
We will hear arguments of 'That's all they have', I get that but it's that or 'help' because no 'help' will be offered whilst under the influence. |
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By *otMe66Man 5 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"Ok so you decide to fine a homeless person.Chances are that homeless person has no income unless claiming benefits so their benefit gets reduced to pay the fine at £5-£10 per month.If they are not claiming benefits or have a income how does that person pay the fine.It doesn’t make any sense imposing a fine on a homeless person to me."
I think what you are saying makes sense if the person is homeless and has accepted all the help provided.
However, if a person decides to live on the streets, refuses to take help to get them off the streets, that is a different type of homelessness, as in it looks like homelessness but is not if help was taken. |
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People who choose to live on the streets are named Hardcore Homeless, as one has to be tough to the core to live on the streets.
But why you say, it is their choice you say.
Well hostels for the homeless are dangerous places, where scucide rates are high, personal attacks are high, drug use is high and bullying is rife.
Would you live in that or stay on the streets? |
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By *os19Man 5 weeks ago
Edmonton |
"Ok so you decide to fine a homeless person.Chances are that homeless person has no income unless claiming benefits so their benefit gets reduced to pay the fine at £5-£10 per month.If they are not claiming benefits or have a income how does that person pay the fine.It doesn’t make any sense imposing a fine on a homeless person to me.
I think what you are saying makes sense if the person is homeless and has accepted all the help provided.
However, if a person decides to live on the streets, refuses to take help to get them off the streets, that is a different type of homelessness, as in it looks like homelessness but is not if help was taken."
. It’s a tricky one because as you say some people refuse help and even refuse any benefits they maybe entitled to.Which then leads back to the question if you impose a fine on them how do you expect them to pay it with no income.I am guessing that this is a small minority against homeless people who are receiving benefits and therefore may have a bank account so that a fine could be imposed. |
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By *otMe66Man 5 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"People who choose to live on the streets are named Hardcore Homeless, as one has to be tough to the core to live on the streets.
But why you say, it is their choice you say.
Well hostels for the homeless are dangerous places, where scucide rates are high, personal attacks are high, drug use is high and bullying is rife.
Would you live in that or stay on the streets?"
I’m not sure the description you give of homeless hostels or shelters is accurate, as I understand it, entry into such places requires a person to have no drugs on their person or be high on drugs or alcohol.
|
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"Police in England and Wales to be given powers to fine homeless people deemed to be causing a ‘nuisance’
Under proposals that form part of the UK government’s flagship crime bill, police in England and Wales are to be given powers to fine or move on rough sleepers deemed to be causing a “nuisance”.
Homelessness has increased significantly under the tories. "
The situation is not new, the homeless have been fined in the past, put in-prisoned in the past, moved on for nothing and generally harassed.
This practiced was seen as inhumane and homeless charities lobbied the government for the police to stop such actions and be more humane which saw this Pratice become less infrequent.
And yes under the tories homelessness becomes a big issue.
Recently a video of a police officer stamping on a homeless guy became viral and another of a security guard putting water where a homeless man was sleeping.
So when times are hard people attack the poor and destitute which is why attacks have risen in a cost of living crisis.
Attack those with little voice to get votes seems like it is working from this thread. |
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"People who choose to live on the streets are named Hardcore Homeless, as one has to be tough to the core to live on the streets.
But why you say, it is their choice you say.
Well hostels for the homeless are dangerous places, where scucide rates are high, personal attacks are high, drug use is high and bullying is rife.
Would you live in that or stay on the streets?
I’m not sure the description you give of homeless hostels or shelters is accurate, as I understand it, entry into such places requires a person to have no drugs on their person or be high on drugs or alcohol.
"
Wrong. So wrong.
I come to a homeless interview I say I do not use drugs I get in then it becomes clear I use drugs, the process to get me out is long and expensive, so hostels don't bother.
Then there are places who only accept drug users.
Then there are places who accept drug users who want to enter rehab.
It is easy for a politician to blame the needy as some people are not to clued up, use the internet for their info are plain have no idea of how homelessness really works. |
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By *otMe66Man 5 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"Ok so you decide to fine a homeless person.Chances are that homeless person has no income unless claiming benefits so their benefit gets reduced to pay the fine at £5-£10 per month.If they are not claiming benefits or have a income how does that person pay the fine.It doesn’t make any sense imposing a fine on a homeless person to me.
I think what you are saying makes sense if the person is homeless and has accepted all the help provided.
However, if a person decides to live on the streets, refuses to take help to get them off the streets, that is a different type of homelessness, as in it looks like homelessness but is not if help was taken.. It’s a tricky one because as you say some people refuse help and even refuse any benefits they maybe entitled to.Which then leads back to the question if you impose a fine on them how do you expect them to pay it with no income.I am guessing that this is a small minority against homeless people who are receiving benefits and therefore may have a bank account so that a fine could be imposed."
Those who take help will never fall into the fine problem, those who do refuse help and can’t pay a fine will no doubt need to be addressed in another way, but at least they are known about and help can be given. |
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By *otMe66Man 5 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"People who choose to live on the streets are named Hardcore Homeless, as one has to be tough to the core to live on the streets.
But why you say, it is their choice you say.
Well hostels for the homeless are dangerous places, where scucide rates are high, personal attacks are high, drug use is high and bullying is rife.
Would you live in that or stay on the streets?
I’m not sure the description you give of homeless hostels or shelters is accurate, as I understand it, entry into such places requires a person to have no drugs on their person or be high on drugs or alcohol.
Wrong. So wrong.
I come to a homeless interview I say I do not use drugs I get in then it becomes clear I use drugs, the process to get me out is long and expensive, so hostels don't bother.
Then there are places who only accept drug users.
Then there are places who accept drug users who want to enter rehab.
It is easy for a politician to blame the needy as some people are not to clued up, use the internet for their info are plain have no idea of how homelessness really works."
These are solid statements, how do you know this is the reality of homeless shelters and their admission processes? Are they all the same? |
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Is there a city in this country where you can walk through the centre without feeling intimidated by homeless beggars off their face on drugs? Seems to be the case in all that i have visited over the last 5 year.
Is that a nuisance? Yes. Does it need to stop? Yes. Is a fine likely to do that … not a chance |
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And i lived for 6 years with a flatmate that worked on a street support team as homeless outreach. Not for me is right. A high percentage are there by choice and positioning themself as visible as possible as its the easiest way to get the money for their drugs (even turning down accommodation as not convenient enough). They days she came home in a good mood because she had actually engaged someone she could help were few and far between and usually made her month. |
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"What kind of government seeks to criminalise homelessness…
When this could happen to anybody….
Maybe it is not people who are homeless, but those who choose to live on the streets, which is a thing.
Is that a big problem? Or just shite made up by the right wing media to demonise homeless people.
I know people who choose to live this way so yes,
Why do they choose to be homeless?
it's a thing Johnny, you can't blame everything you don't understand on the right
I didn't. "
I don't know and yes you do! You simply fail to realise it |
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"People who choose to live on the streets are named Hardcore Homeless, as one has to be tough to the core to live on the streets.
But why you say, it is their choice you say.
Well hostels for the homeless are dangerous places, where scucide rates are high, personal attacks are high, drug use is high and bullying is rife.
Would you live in that or stay on the streets?
I’m not sure the description you give of homeless hostels or shelters is accurate, as I understand it, entry into such places requires a person to have no drugs on their person or be high on drugs or alcohol.
Wrong. So wrong.
I come to a homeless interview I say I do not use drugs I get in then it becomes clear I use drugs, the process to get me out is long and expensive, so hostels don't bother.
Then there are places who only accept drug users.
Then there are places who accept drug users who want to enter rehab.
It is easy for a politician to blame the needy as some people are not to clued up, use the internet for their info are plain have no idea of how homelessness really works.
These are solid statements, how do you know this is the reality of homeless shelters and their admission processes? Are they all the same? "
You knew that there was an admission process you say so above.
So in reality this is just another smoke screen to have us look the other way.
It was against the law to be homeless in the past and those poor people were sent to work houses.
(Imagine Oliver Twist)
If the tories win at the next election, I say some hostels will be such to make the destitute work for a roof over their head, and ask if they can have some more, if labour get in homelessness rates should down like last time they were in, it will be a good indicator for me, if homelessness goes up which I expect this year due to the mortgage situation then the system for the homeless will become under threat as people enter this system due to be evicted for failure to pay their mortgage.
I am off to watch The Gentlemen now so will not be back till later. |
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"Is there a city in this country where you can walk through the centre without feeling intimidated by homeless beggars off their face on drugs? Seems to be the case in all that i have visited over the last 5 year.
Is that a nuisance? Yes. Does it need to stop? Yes. Is a fine likely to do that … not a chance "
Radical idea, but instead of fining people who can't afford to pay fines. We could..... Help them?
|
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"Is there a city in this country where you can walk through the centre without feeling intimidated by homeless beggars off their face on drugs? Seems to be the case in all that i have visited over the last 5 year.
Is that a nuisance? Yes. Does it need to stop? Yes. Is a fine likely to do that … not a chance
Radical idea, but instead of fining people who can't afford to pay fines. We could..... Help them?
"
Now that is radical  |
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"Is there a city in this country where you can walk through the centre without feeling intimidated by homeless beggars off their face on drugs? Seems to be the case in all that i have visited over the last 5 year.
Is that a nuisance? Yes. Does it need to stop? Yes. Is a fine likely to do that … not a chance
Radical idea, but instead of fining people who can't afford to pay fines. We could..... Help them?
"
We could, but there is a wide spread delusion that providing houses or opening closed off buildings is all the help they need. In reality its a complex and varied combination of mental health, and addiction support before most of these people could even come close to holding down any sort of tenancy.
It also requires engagement and for them to actually want that help for it to be remotely successful. Im not suggesting that means just dont try, but the click bait papers would have you believe we just need to throw up some more houses and job done |
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It is really quite depressing "these people"
Homelessness numbers are made up of those who got into financial difficulty and got into arrears, the landlord fooled them with a section 21 notice to leave in 21 days, (chip paper carries more weight) but they believed it and left their homes, no drugs involved.
Default on mortgages which will happen this year, made home owners homeless, divorce, lack of understanding of the benefit system including housing benefit, job loss, private landlords doing dodgy unlawful things, substandard housing, rat infestations the list goes on.
Drugs usually play a part in cold weather, or just to escape reality of the situation, but usually after homelessness has occurred.
Do not blame drugs for homelessness, the part of the population who feed the drugs industry are people who are housed have their own home work have kids people who think they are living a normal life.
Homelessness is a byproduct of capitalism plain and simple fall foul of capitalism and homelessness is not far behind. |
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By *coptoCouple 5 weeks ago
Côte d'Azur & Great Yarmouth |
"... hostels for the homeless are dangerous places, where scucide rates are high, personal attacks are high, drug use is high and bullying is rife. Would you live in that or stay on the streets?"
A pitiful example: where my kids live, a there-but-for-the grace-of-God-go-I young man, completely harmless but of limited mental capacity, has been found a place to live by the Council. Within weeks, junkies and dealers have moved into the flat, thrown him out, and will conduct their business from there for as long as possible
The poor sod's been "living" in the doorway of a closed-down High Street department store (modern Britain, eh?), local shop-keepers give him food and blankets.
He hasn't been seen for a couple of weeks, who knows... |
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""... hostels for the homeless are dangerous places, where scucide rates are high, personal attacks are high, drug use is high and bullying is rife. Would you live in that or stay on the streets?"
A pitiful example: where my kids live, a there-but-for-the grace-of-God-go-I young man, completely harmless but of limited mental capacity, has been found a place to live by the Council. Within weeks, junkies and dealers have moved into the flat, thrown him out, and will conduct their business from there for as long as possible
The poor sod's been "living" in the doorway of a closed-down High Street department store (modern Britain, eh?), local shop-keepers give him food and blankets.
He hasn't been seen for a couple of weeks, who knows..."
That is not uncommon, this will lead the person into protected accommodation with 24 hour staff.
Has anyone told the landlord, where are the people supporting him.
As they should visit this person in their home.
When I experienced a person being bullied out of their accommodation I told the police, they raided the flat as arms were involved arrested everyone and put the bullied person into protected accommodation so its strange that this person hasn't been picked up yet after 3 days.
Has anyone acted on this persons behalf. |
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