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Trump on Ukraine
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"Trump will throw Ukraine under the bus. A travesty of justice for the brave people of Ukraine who have done all the West a huge service by standing-up to Putin at enormous cost to themselves. It pretty much sends out the message that a hostile state can invade another country then expect to keep it's territorial gains in peace negotiations. Perhaps that's the way Trump sees the future. In which case, Europe had better re-arm and fast. " did you honestly belive ukraine were going to win and get there land back? There running out of cannon fodder what then? Send nato in? | |||
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"Ukraine cannot win. People are dying needlessly. End the war and stop the killing." Russia cannot win. The country will be bankrupt by the end of the year. That is why Trump is trying to bail them out. Russians and North Koreans are dying simply so their superiors in Moscow can locate the Ukrainian positions. How barbaric is that? Do we want "conquered" Ukranians to live under such a regime considering the way innocent civilians were slaughtered by Russian troops? Russia should not have invaded another sovereign country. How many times during WW1 and WW2 did people say Britain cannot win? Russia, get out of Ukraine completely and stop the war or face generations of sanctions and pariah status. As for Trump. He does not give a damn about his own people let alone the Ukarinians. Is he the best person, with his TV host lacky, to negotiate with Putin? | |||
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"Trump will throw Ukraine under the bus. A travesty of justice for the brave people of Ukraine who have done all the West a huge service by standing-up to Putin at enormous cost to themselves. It pretty much sends out the message that a hostile state can invade another country then expect to keep it's territorial gains in peace negotiations. Perhaps that's the way Trump sees the future. In which case, Europe had better re-arm and fast. did you honestly belive ukraine were going to win and get there land back? There running out of cannon fodder what then? Send nato in?" Yes, I do think Ukraine could and should have got it's land back eventually. Otherwise we have global anarchy in which any country can march across the border into another and keep the spoils. Who next? Estonia? Poland? Germany? | |||
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"Trump see's himself as emperor of earth. " I'm beginning to think he does of a 'Messiah' complex | |||
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"Trump will throw Ukraine under the bus. A travesty of justice for the brave people of Ukraine who have done all the West a huge service by standing-up to Putin at enormous cost to themselves. It pretty much sends out the message that a hostile state can invade another country then expect to keep it's territorial gains in peace negotiations. Perhaps that's the way Trump sees the future. In which case, Europe had better re-arm and fast. did you honestly belive ukraine were going to win and get there land back? There running out of cannon fodder what then? Send nato in?" What does “winning” look like for either side? A win for Russia means the end of Ukraine as an independent country. The job started in 2014, a bit more was done 2022-2025 and the job will be completed within the next ten years. A win for Ukraine means their continued existence as an independent nation. Ukraine just want to exist - that is their win. No one in their right mind would want to force Ukraine to capitulate but this is what the Americans have effectively said. This will just buy time for Russia to replenish, re-stock and re-arm and they will return in the next few years to finish the job. The Americans can now never be trusted again and this damage to trust will last for generations to come. Europe (including the U.K.) needs to wake up pdq. | |||
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"Trump see's himself as emperor of earth. I'm beginning to think he does of a 'Messiah' complex" Clearly he does, just his body language and facial expressions his arrogant sense of self importance,let alone his actions and words coming out of his mouth. Now the NSA may be reading this but I genuinely think he's mentally unstable or he's far more intelligent than anyone is giving him credit for those blurting out crap statements are carefully thought through and planned?? I doubt it  | |||
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"Trump will throw Ukraine under the bus. A travesty of justice for the brave people of Ukraine who have done all the West a huge service by standing-up to Putin at enormous cost to themselves. It pretty much sends out the message that a hostile state can invade another country then expect to keep it's territorial gains in peace negotiations. Perhaps that's the way Trump sees the future. In which case, Europe had better re-arm and fast. did you honestly belive ukraine were going to win and get there land back? There running out of cannon fodder what then? Send nato in? What does “winning” look like for either side? A win for Russia means the end of Ukraine as an independent country. The job started in 2014, a bit more was done 2022-2025 and the job will be completed within the next ten years. A win for Ukraine means their continued existence as an independent nation. Ukraine just want to exist - that is their win. No one in their right mind would want to force Ukraine to capitulate but this is what the Americans have effectively said. This will just buy time for Russia to replenish, re-stock and re-arm and they will return in the next few years to finish the job. The Americans can now never be trusted again and this damage to trust will last for generations to come. Europe (including the U.K.) needs to wake up pdq." anyone who has trusted america since 1945 needs there heads testing, america has always done whats best for america only difference now is trump is doing it in full view of everyone if you think that america has ever been for anyone other than america then you must have been walking round with your eyes closed,did you really belive the usa were going to see ukraine through to the end? Once they turn the cash taps off europe will do the same and resume using russian gas,ukraine got played from the begining, hopefully if the war does end they can hopefully save whats left of its male population because the ones that got out of the country at the begining aint going back | |||
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"Trump will throw Ukraine under the bus. A travesty of justice for the brave people of Ukraine who have done all the West a huge service by standing-up to Putin at enormous cost to themselves. It pretty much sends out the message that a hostile state can invade another country then expect to keep it's territorial gains in peace negotiations. Perhaps that's the way Trump sees the future. In which case, Europe had better re-arm and fast. did you honestly belive ukraine were going to win and get there land back? There running out of cannon fodder what then? Send nato in? Yes, I do think Ukraine could and should have got it's land back eventually. Otherwise we have global anarchy in which any country can march across the border into another and keep the spoils. Who next? Estonia? Poland? Germany? " more likely panama, mexico, greenland canada then onto uk overseas territories in the windies etc | |||
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"If the French are cheese eating surrender monkeys, I guess this makes America burger eating surrender monkeys, except worse as the are surrendering on others behalf" Sounds a bit odd. How can the US surrender on Ukraine’s behalf? Almost sounds like Ukraine is just a US puppet. If Ukraine wants to fight until every one of its citizens is dead or living in another part of the world, nobody is stopping them. Ukraine is an independent country right? | |||
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"If the French are cheese eating surrender monkeys, I guess this makes America burger eating surrender monkeys, except worse as the are surrendering on others behalf" Well ukraine we're fighting the russians on americas behalf so it's pretty obvious that america would be ending the war on ukraines behalf,this was a proxy war and nothing else,zelensky was either to stupid or to corrupt to see this,why anyone thought ukraine were going to win this is beyond me,should of taken the deal they were offered before bojo vonvinced them not to,they would of kept a lot more of there land than they are going to now | |||
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"Irrelevant of the US position, isn't a bit rich for the European powers to threaten military support that, frankly, they cannot and would not deliver? Isn't it more realistic to accept that none of the "allies" were prepared to provide offensive capabilities to Ukraine and, as such, they had little or no chance of any form of success? Fact if the matter is that this should've been nipped in the bud in 2014 and it's apparent that Europe doesn't have the stomach for war hence the reliance on the US " Nobody wants war, and it's good that responsible European countries do their utmost to avoid it. But yes, military support has been slow in coming, even from the US. I guess it was hoped that sanctions would deter Russia, but it hasn't worked - a salutary lesson. Now Europe has little choice but to re-arm for a major conflict - not an attractive proposition given the continent's history. As for America, we are seeing end-of-Empire unfolding in front of our eyes. | |||
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"Irrelevant of the US position, isn't a bit rich for the European powers to threaten military support that, frankly, they cannot and would not deliver? Isn't it more realistic to accept that none of the "allies" were prepared to provide offensive capabilities to Ukraine and, as such, they had little or no chance of any form of success? Fact if the matter is that this should've been nipped in the bud in 2014 and it's apparent that Europe doesn't have the stomach for war hence the reliance on the US Nobody wants war, and it's good that responsible European countries do their utmost to avoid it. But yes, military support has been slow in coming, even from the US. I guess it was hoped that sanctions would deter Russia, but it hasn't worked - a salutary lesson. Now Europe has little choice but to re-arm for a major conflict - not an attractive proposition given the continent's history. As for America, we are seeing end-of-Empire unfolding in front of our eyes." Just my opinion 🤷 Europe on the hole want Ukrane to beat Russia but at the same time, try not to get to directly involved. But the people of Europe don't want to foot the bill for Ukraine to be supplied with the tools to do this. It was all to little and far to late now its going to take more and take longer. But how dose it look if Putin dose gain land. And on time will Russia try again say in 10 years. | |||
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"If the French are cheese eating surrender monkeys, I guess this makes America burger eating surrender monkeys, except worse as the are surrendering on others behalf Sounds a bit odd. How can the US surrender on Ukraine’s behalf? Almost sounds like Ukraine is just a US puppet. If Ukraine wants to fight until every one of its citizens is dead or living in another part of the world, nobody is stopping them. Ukraine is an independent country right? " Probably by knowing without US support Ukraine would not have much chane of holding Russia back. But if Ukraine is forced in to a bad deal as the Ukrainians might see it, will this become an even longer gorilla style war. | |||
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"If the French are cheese eating surrender monkeys, I guess this makes America burger eating surrender monkeys, except worse as the are surrendering on others behalf Sounds a bit odd. How can the US surrender on Ukraine’s behalf? Almost sounds like Ukraine is just a US puppet. If Ukraine wants to fight until every one of its citizens is dead or living in another part of the world, nobody is stopping them. Ukraine is an independent country right? Probably by knowing without US support Ukraine would not have much chane of holding Russia back. But if Ukraine is forced in to a bad deal as the Ukrainians might see it, will this become an even longer gorilla style war. " Yes very possible I agree. Zelensky looks like a broken man. Twitching all the time. He looks like he is on something. If he has to face reality and accept a deal, will hardliners in Ukraine bump him off and try and carry on without the US? The UK and EU talk big but practically they’ve got nothing to offer. Europe hasn’t got the financial or military means to back Ukraine and there is no chance of European countries getting directly involved in a conflict with Russia. | |||
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"Irrelevant of the US position, isn't a bit rich for the European powers to threaten military support that, frankly, they cannot and would not deliver? Isn't it more realistic to accept that none of the "allies" were prepared to provide offensive capabilities to Ukraine and, as such, they had little or no chance of any form of success? Fact if the matter is that this should've been nipped in the bud in 2014 and it's apparent that Europe doesn't have the stomach for war hence the reliance on the US Nobody wants war, and it's good that responsible European countries do their utmost to avoid it. But yes, military support has been slow in coming, even from the US. I guess it was hoped that sanctions would deter Russia, but it hasn't worked - a salutary lesson. Now Europe has little choice but to re-arm for a major conflict - not an attractive proposition given the continent's history. As for America, we are seeing end-of-Empire unfolding in front of our eyes." Clearly some people do want war as a means to an end and trying to avoid it to the extent that the west has done merely encourages it. It'll be years before Europe's politicians are ready for war, that's the bloody point. | |||
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"Putin's a murdering bully and the worst way to deal with his type is to appease and show weakness.. He only recognises strength.. " Are you willing to go and fight for Ukraine. Or should I say the politicians who want to keep this war going. Because volunteers who felt strong enough have gone from the west and died. It ok to talk tough as long has it's others loved ones going to put their life on the line. | |||
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"Putin's a murdering bully and the worst way to deal with his type is to appease and show weakness.. He only recognises strength.. Are you willing to go and fight for Ukraine. Or should I say the politicians who want to keep this war going. Because volunteers who felt strong enough have gone from the west and died. It ok to talk tough as long has it's others loved ones going to put their life on the line." Wise words from the grave | |||
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"Trump is calling everyone’s bluff. Everyone in Europe talks a big game but no one can follow through. The Americans know that. Trump doesn’t care for Europe - his concerns are now Pacific based - and he is just going to wind down any commitments that distract from that future goal. The US doesn’t care about any collateral damage as long as it doesn’t involve US lives. The sooner we wake up to the fact that the world has changed and that realpolitik is all that matters now, the better." Is he really in charge or it President Musk.Did you see the charade in the oval office with Musks son telling Trump to shut up and saying hes not the President. | |||
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"Putin's a murdering bully and the worst way to deal with his type is to appease and show weakness.. He only recognises strength.. Are you willing to go and fight for Ukraine. Or should I say the politicians who want to keep this war going. Because volunteers who felt strong enough have gone from the west and died. It ok to talk tough as long has it's others loved ones going to put their life on the line." I've done my service back in the days when our life expectancy was about 48 hours if the 3rd shock army we faced came across into West Germany.. So at 65 I don't think I would be anything other than sent back home if I were to go.. I would do what's necessary to the best of my abilities if this land was invaded yes, I wouldn't be sat at home wringing my hands, weeping and moaning about politicians and the failures that had led to the situation .. Recognising the reality of the dangers of despots isn't talking tough.. | |||
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"Trump is calling everyone’s bluff. Everyone in Europe talks a big game but no one can follow through. The Americans know that. Trump doesn’t care for Europe - his concerns are now Pacific based - and he is just going to wind down any commitments that distract from that future goal. The US doesn’t care about any collateral damage as long as it doesn’t involve US lives. The sooner we wake up to the fact that the world has changed and that realpolitik is all that matters now, the better. Is he really in charge or it President Musk.Did you see the charade in the oval office with Musks son telling Trump to shut up and saying hes not the President. " Why do we care? We don’t have any say in who runs their country. We just need to make sure that we make our own decisions moving forward. | |||
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"Putin's a murdering bully and the worst way to deal with his type is to appease and show weakness.. He only recognises strength.. Are you willing to go and fight for Ukraine. Or should I say the politicians who want to keep this war going. Because volunteers who felt strong enough have gone from the west and died. It ok to talk tough as long has it's others loved ones going to put their life on the line." Perhaps if Ukraine had been properly supplied they would have had a better chance to defend themselves. Uk is a co signatory to the 1994 Budapest memorandum and security agreement. West debated for almost three years, no artillery, oh no tanks, no air cover etc etc. reported half the weapons have been supplied late, capitulated on our obligations of 1994 agreement. Ukraine has not asked for western troops but has welcomed and paid volunteers. | |||
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"Trump is calling everyone’s bluff. Everyone in Europe talks a big game but no one can follow through. The Americans know that. Trump doesn’t care for Europe - his concerns are now Pacific based - and he is just going to wind down any commitments that distract from that future goal. The US doesn’t care about any collateral damage as long as it doesn’t involve US lives. The sooner we wake up to the fact that the world has changed and that realpolitik is all that matters now, the better." Exactly this. | |||
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"Trump is calling everyone’s bluff. Everyone in Europe talks a big game but no one can follow through. The Americans know that. Trump doesn’t care for Europe - his concerns are now Pacific based - and he is just going to wind down any commitments that distract from that future goal. The US doesn’t care about any collateral damage as long as it doesn’t involve US lives. The sooner we wake up to the fact that the world has changed and that realpolitik is all that matters now, the better. Exactly this. " Trump will concentrate on the Americas, Xi Jiping will concentrate on Asia, and Putin will be left with Europe.. | |||
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"Trump see's himself as emperor of earth. " Ming the merciless vs Trump the Tit. | |||
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"Irrelevant of the US position, isn't a bit rich for the European powers to threaten military support that, frankly, they cannot and would not deliver? Isn't it more realistic to accept that none of the "allies" were prepared to provide offensive capabilities to Ukraine and, as such, they had little or no chance of any form of success? Fact if the matter is that this should've been nipped in the bud in 2014 and it's apparent that Europe doesn't have the stomach for war hence the reliance on the US Nobody wants war, and it's good that responsible European countries do their utmost to avoid it. But yes, military support has been slow in coming, even from the US. I guess it was hoped that sanctions would deter Russia, but it hasn't worked - a salutary lesson. Now Europe has little choice but to re-arm for a major conflict - not an attractive proposition given the continent's history. As for America, we are seeing end-of-Empire unfolding in front of our eyes." That's simply repeating your earlier comment. What about offensive weapons? What about supporting the talk with action? What about accepting the obvious fact that some leaders see aggression and war as a means to an end? Wake up to the reality | |||
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"Trump's proposal for peace in Ukraine is predicated on the total capitulation of Ukraine to his buddy Putin. He has already said he will leave the land taken by Russia with Russia. Trump may also gift Russia the areas they did not take so the have the whole of the Donetsk region. He has already said the return of Crimea is not on the cards. That Ukraine cannot be allowed to join NATO. VP J D Vance's recent arrogant, high handed, announcement in Europe shows a contempt for Europe unprecedented in history. Not only did he promulgate lies he also insulted us. Ukrainians have fought and died for their country every day since Trump's buddy Putin invaded. Now Trump wants to impose a solution on the Ukranians "To stop the killing". Since Russians are dying 8:1 vs Ukrainians we know which lives this sociopath is wanting to save, and why. The key question now is why? Why is, what used to be, the "leader of the free world" wanting to reward a dictator and agressor? Could it be, using national security as an excuse, he intends to invade Greenland and Panama? Perhaps Canada? Will his deal with Putin carve out other areas of Europe for his buddy to take? Where next? Poland, Hungary, baltic states. Britain and the Europeans should immediately stop viewing the USA as an ally. We should give very serious consideration to commiting troops to fight on the side of Ukraine. Russia is weak and in disaray now. Trump obviously wants them strong again. We will not get a better opportunity to defend our nations against future aggression than now. " What troops are these? The harsh reality is that the once powerful UK is nothing but a country that relies on the threat of the nuclear deterrent and the hope that the US will do it all for us. Simple | |||
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"Trump's proposal for peace in Ukraine is predicated on the total capitulation of Ukraine to his buddy Putin. He has already said he will leave the land taken by Russia with Russia. Trump may also gift Russia the areas they did not take so the have the whole of the Donetsk region. He has already said the return of Crimea is not on the cards. That Ukraine cannot be allowed to join NATO. VP J D Vance's recent arrogant, high handed, announcement in Europe shows a contempt for Europe unprecedented in history. Not only did he promulgate lies he also insulted us. Ukrainians have fought and died for their country every day since Trump's buddy Putin invaded. Now Trump wants to impose a solution on the Ukranians "To stop the killing". Since Russians are dying 8:1 vs Ukrainians we know which lives this sociopath is wanting to save, and why. The key question now is why? Why is, what used to be, the "leader of the free world" wanting to reward a dictator and agressor? Could it be, using national security as an excuse, he intends to invade Greenland and Panama? Perhaps Canada? Will his deal with Putin carve out other areas of Europe for his buddy to take? Where next? Poland, Hungary, baltic states. Britain and the Europeans should immediately stop viewing the USA as an ally. We should give very serious consideration to commiting troops to fight on the side of Ukraine. Russia is weak and in disaray now. Trump obviously wants them strong again. We will not get a better opportunity to defend our nations against future aggression than now. " This doesn't sound like a way forward, in fact it sounds like a step in the completely wrong direction.😳 Trump is right, the US shouldn't keep supplying arms, all this is doing is killing with the end result still exactly the same, so why continue? People are forgetting who is in control of what, mainly driven by anything Trump led media. Ukraine will decide if it will negotiate, give up land or not, it is not down to Trump. However, the landscape has changed and Zelensky is going to be down on weaponry support, but that is the same in every war, things are constantly changing and he needs to decide his next move. | |||
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"Trump see's himself as emperor of earth. I'm beginning to think he does of a 'Messiah' complex" He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy. | |||
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"What a sell out. Speaking directly with Putin (and boasting about it) whilst sidelining Ukraine and telling Ukraine that their pre-2014 land is gone forever (because Russians fought for it and lost a lot of people) is nothing short of despicable. Then Hegseth say Ukraine will never be part of NATO just to suck Putin’s balls a little bit more? WTAF??? NATO exists as a measure for otherwise independent nations to be able to collectively defend themselves against Russia aggression. Ukraine is the only country that potentially could be eligible for NATO membership that has actively taken on and fought Russian aggression. They would be the most capable and the most valuable of all potential future NATO members. It’s time to get serious about an alternative to NATO until the United States once again becomes a country with an affirmed foreign policy that is not dependant on the populist rhetoric of one or other Party. Europe (including the U.K.) has to tell Trump to fuck right off and commit to doubling or trebling military aid to Ukraine and putting Putin to the sword once and for all. The Ukrainians have already disassembled a huge part of the Russian war machine and the ongoing war is crippling the Russian economy. Now is not the time to sell out Ukraine, the time is to increase the pressure on Russia. Fuck Trump." Problem with the nato membership thing is that all countries have to agree, so if they say no it can’t happen (remember that turkey held up Swedens application for a bit before finally agreeing when they applied jointly with Finland) After the Vance speech today, I think if you are a European country or Canada, you have look at the US for at least the next 4 years to be an unreliable partner I know I talked about Canada having some sort of EU “associate membership” in another thread.. but that might have to be an option | |||
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"Putin's a murdering bully and the worst way to deal with his type is to appease and show weakness.. He only recognises strength.. Are you willing to go and fight for Ukraine. Or should I say the politicians who want to keep this war going. Because volunteers who felt strong enough have gone from the west and died. It ok to talk tough as long has it's others loved ones going to put their life on the line. I've done my service back in the days when our life expectancy was about 48 hours if the 3rd shock army we faced came across into West Germany.. So at 65 I don't think I would be anything other than sent back home if I were to go.. I would do what's necessary to the best of my abilities if this land was invaded yes, I wouldn't be sat at home wringing my hands, weeping and moaning about politicians and the failures that had led to the situation .. Recognising the reality of the dangers of despots isn't talking tough.. " I think more people would be willing to fight if this country was invaded. It's going and fighting overseas on someone else's behalf I think most have a issue with. | |||
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"Trump's proposal for peace in Ukraine is predicated on the total capitulation of Ukraine to his buddy Putin. He has already said he will leave the land taken by Russia with Russia. Trump may also gift Russia the areas they did not take so the have the whole of the Donetsk region. He has already said the return of Crimea is not on the cards. That Ukraine cannot be allowed to join NATO. VP J D Vance's recent arrogant, high handed, announcement in Europe shows a contempt for Europe unprecedented in history. Not only did he promulgate lies he also insulted us. Ukrainians have fought and died for their country every day since Trump's buddy Putin invaded. Now Trump wants to impose a solution on the Ukranians "To stop the killing". Since Russians are dying 8:1 vs Ukrainians we know which lives this sociopath is wanting to save, and why. The key question now is why? Why is, what used to be, the "leader of the free world" wanting to reward a dictator and agressor? Could it be, using national security as an excuse, he intends to invade Greenland and Panama? Perhaps Canada? Will his deal with Putin carve out other areas of Europe for his buddy to take? Where next? Poland, Hungary, baltic states. Britain and the Europeans should immediately stop viewing the USA as an ally. We should give very serious consideration to commiting troops to fight on the side of Ukraine. Russia is weak and in disaray now. Trump obviously wants them strong again. We will not get a better opportunity to defend our nations against future aggression than now. " pop over to Ukraine if you feel that strongly i hear they are looking for more bodies to throw into the front line, as for uk or european soilders fighting alongside yhe ukrainians you sound as deluded as trump | |||
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"Trump is calling everyone’s bluff. Everyone in Europe talks a big game but no one can follow through. The Americans know that. Trump doesn’t care for Europe - his concerns are now Pacific based - and he is just going to wind down any commitments that distract from that future goal. The US doesn’t care about any collateral damage as long as it doesn’t involve US lives. The sooner we wake up to the fact that the world has changed and that realpolitik is all that matters now, the better." The US doesn't even care about US lives, only what profit and political capital can be made out of the situation. | |||
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"Trump's proposal for peace in Ukraine is predicated on the total capitulation of Ukraine to his buddy Putin. He has already said he will leave the land taken by Russia with Russia. Trump may also gift Russia the areas they did not take so the have the whole of the Donetsk region. He has already said the return of Crimea is not on the cards. That Ukraine cannot be allowed to join NATO. VP J D Vance's recent arrogant, high handed, announcement in Europe shows a contempt for Europe unprecedented in history. Not only did he promulgate lies he also insulted us. Ukrainians have fought and died for their country every day since Trump's buddy Putin invaded. Now Trump wants to impose a solution on the Ukranians "To stop the killing". Since Russians are dying 8:1 vs Ukrainians we know which lives this sociopath is wanting to save, and why. The key question now is why? Why is, what used to be, the "leader of the free world" wanting to reward a dictator and agressor? Could it be, using national security as an excuse, he intends to invade Greenland and Panama? Perhaps Canada? Will his deal with Putin carve out other areas of Europe for his buddy to take? Where next? Poland, Hungary, baltic states. Britain and the Europeans should immediately stop viewing the USA as an ally. We should give very serious consideration to commiting troops to fight on the side of Ukraine. Russia is weak and in disaray now. Trump obviously wants them strong again. We will not get a better opportunity to defend our nations against future aggression than now. What troops are these? The harsh reality is that the once powerful UK is nothing but a country that relies on the threat of the nuclear deterrent and the hope that the US will do it all for us. Simple " Not just us but all the European countries. | |||
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"Trump's proposal for peace in Ukraine is predicated on the total capitulation of Ukraine to his buddy Putin. He has already said he will leave the land taken by Russia with Russia. Trump may also gift Russia the areas they did not take so the have the whole of the Donetsk region. He has already said the return of Crimea is not on the cards. That Ukraine cannot be allowed to join NATO. VP J D Vance's recent arrogant, high handed, announcement in Europe shows a contempt for Europe unprecedented in history. Not only did he promulgate lies he also insulted us. Ukrainians have fought and died for their country every day since Trump's buddy Putin invaded. Now Trump wants to impose a solution on the Ukranians "To stop the killing". Since Russians are dying 8:1 vs Ukrainians we know which lives this sociopath is wanting to save, and why. The key question now is why? Why is, what used to be, the "leader of the free world" wanting to reward a dictator and agressor? Could it be, using national security as an excuse, he intends to invade Greenland and Panama? Perhaps Canada? Will his deal with Putin carve out other areas of Europe for his buddy to take? Where next? Poland, Hungary, baltic states. Britain and the Europeans should immediately stop viewing the USA as an ally. We should give very serious consideration to commiting troops to fight on the side of Ukraine. Russia is weak and in disaray now. Trump obviously wants them strong again. We will not get a better opportunity to defend our nations against future aggression than now. pop over to Ukraine if you feel that strongly i hear they are looking for more bodies to throw into the front line, as for uk or european soilders fighting alongside yhe ukrainians you sound as deluded as trump" What possible benefit would me going over there serve? I know war; it is Hell. This war was started and continued by Putin not Ukraine. Is your only solution to force Ukraine to capitulate? Is this the way the new right wing USA wishes to be known by its one time allies? "Deluded" means 'believing something that is not true'. I expressed an opinion that the combined armed forces of the Europe countries could eject Russia from Ukraine and Crimea. There are almost 2 million of them. If we do nothing Trump will give a huge area of a country he does not rule to a hostile foreign power he favoures. | |||
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"Trump's proposal for peace in Ukraine is predicated on the total capitulation of Ukraine to his buddy Putin. He has already said he will leave the land taken by Russia with Russia. Trump may also gift Russia the areas they did not take so the have the whole of the Donetsk region. He has already said the return of Crimea is not on the cards. That Ukraine cannot be allowed to join NATO. VP J D Vance's recent arrogant, high handed, announcement in Europe shows a contempt for Europe unprecedented in history. Not only did he promulgate lies he also insulted us. Ukrainians have fought and died for their country every day since Trump's buddy Putin invaded. Now Trump wants to impose a solution on the Ukranians "To stop the killing". Since Russians are dying 8:1 vs Ukrainians we know which lives this sociopath is wanting to save, and why. The key question now is why? Why is, what used to be, the "leader of the free world" wanting to reward a dictator and agressor? Could it be, using national security as an excuse, he intends to invade Greenland and Panama? Perhaps Canada? Will his deal with Putin carve out other areas of Europe for his buddy to take? Where next? Poland, Hungary, baltic states. Britain and the Europeans should immediately stop viewing the USA as an ally. We should give very serious consideration to commiting troops to fight on the side of Ukraine. Russia is weak and in disaray now. Trump obviously wants them strong again. We will not get a better opportunity to defend our nations against future aggression than now. pop over to Ukraine if you feel that strongly i hear they are looking for more bodies to throw into the front line, as for uk or european soilders fighting alongside yhe ukrainians you sound as deluded as trump What possible benefit would me going over there serve? I know war; it is Hell. This war was started and continued by Putin not Ukraine. Is your only solution to force Ukraine to capitulate? Is this the way the new right wing USA wishes to be known by its one time allies? "Deluded" means 'believing something that is not true'. I expressed an opinion that the combined armed forces of the Europe countries could eject Russia from Ukraine and Crimea. There are almost 2 million of them. If we do nothing Trump will give a huge area of a country he does not rule to a hostile foreign power he favoures. " Good luck to the EU and the UK in its war against Russia. I’m sure we will have no problem at all raising the money, arms and personnel for this. | |||
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"Trump's proposal for peace in Ukraine is predicated on the total capitulation of Ukraine to his buddy Putin. He has already said he will leave the land taken by Russia with Russia. Trump may also gift Russia the areas they did not take so the have the whole of the Donetsk region. He has already said the return of Crimea is not on the cards. That Ukraine cannot be allowed to join NATO. VP J D Vance's recent arrogant, high handed, announcement in Europe shows a contempt for Europe unprecedented in history. Not only did he promulgate lies he also insulted us. Ukrainians have fought and died for their country every day since Trump's buddy Putin invaded. Now Trump wants to impose a solution on the Ukranians "To stop the killing". Since Russians are dying 8:1 vs Ukrainians we know which lives this sociopath is wanting to save, and why. The key question now is why? Why is, what used to be, the "leader of the free world" wanting to reward a dictator and agressor? Could it be, using national security as an excuse, he intends to invade Greenland and Panama? Perhaps Canada? Will his deal with Putin carve out other areas of Europe for his buddy to take? Where next? Poland, Hungary, baltic states. Britain and the Europeans should immediately stop viewing the USA as an ally. We should give very serious consideration to commiting troops to fight on the side of Ukraine. Russia is weak and in disaray now. Trump obviously wants them strong again. We will not get a better opportunity to defend our nations against future aggression than now. pop over to Ukraine if you feel that strongly i hear they are looking for more bodies to throw into the front line, as for uk or european soilders fighting alongside yhe ukrainians you sound as deluded as trump What possible benefit would me going over there serve? I know war; it is Hell. This war was started and continued by Putin not Ukraine. Is your only solution to force Ukraine to capitulate? Is this the way the new right wing USA wishes to be known by its one time allies? "Deluded" means 'believing something that is not true'. I expressed an opinion that the combined armed forces of the Europe countries could eject Russia from Ukraine and Crimea. There are almost 2 million of them. If we do nothing Trump will give a huge area of a country he does not rule to a hostile foreign power he favoures. " You're missing the obvious point... whether combined armed forces or the European countries could eject Russia is irrelevant. The fact remains that there isn't the political will to do it and even if there was, any alliance would splinter before the Russian political will did | |||
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"Trump's proposal for peace in Ukraine is predicated on the total capitulation of Ukraine to his buddy Putin. He has already said he will leave the land taken by Russia with Russia. Trump may also gift Russia the areas they did not take so the have the whole of the Donetsk region. He has already said the return of Crimea is not on the cards. That Ukraine cannot be allowed to join NATO. VP J D Vance's recent arrogant, high handed, announcement in Europe shows a contempt for Europe unprecedented in history. Not only did he promulgate lies he also insulted us. Ukrainians have fought and died for their country every day since Trump's buddy Putin invaded. Now Trump wants to impose a solution on the Ukranians "To stop the killing". Since Russians are dying 8:1 vs Ukrainians we know which lives this sociopath is wanting to save, and why. The key question now is why? Why is, what used to be, the "leader of the free world" wanting to reward a dictator and agressor? Could it be, using national security as an excuse, he intends to invade Greenland and Panama? Perhaps Canada? Will his deal with Putin carve out other areas of Europe for his buddy to take? Where next? Poland, Hungary, baltic states. Britain and the Europeans should immediately stop viewing the USA as an ally. We should give very serious consideration to commiting troops to fight on the side of Ukraine. Russia is weak and in disaray now. Trump obviously wants them strong again. We will not get a better opportunity to defend our nations against future aggression than now. pop over to Ukraine if you feel that strongly i hear they are looking for more bodies to throw into the front line, as for uk or european soilders fighting alongside yhe ukrainians you sound as deluded as trump What possible benefit would me going over there serve? I know war; it is Hell. This war was started and continued by Putin not Ukraine. Is your only solution to force Ukraine to capitulate? Is this the way the new right wing USA wishes to be known by its one time allies? "Deluded" means 'believing something that is not true'. I expressed an opinion that the combined armed forces of the Europe countries could eject Russia from Ukraine and Crimea. There are almost 2 million of them. If we do nothing Trump will give a huge area of a country he does not rule to a hostile foreign power he favoures. You're missing the obvious point... whether combined armed forces or the European countries could eject Russia is irrelevant. The fact remains that there isn't the political will to do it and even if there was, any alliance would splinter before the Russian political will did " All the Western countries have spent years brainwashing their kids that their countries are shit and they should spend their time fretting about what gender they are and what pronouns they should use. The idea that they are going to fight and die in Eastern European trenches in freezing cold mud is just laughable. | |||
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"Was watching JD Vance on the news does he wear eyeliner? Cos it sure looks like it 😂" Looks to me like “Charlie” eyes. | |||
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"Trump's proposal for peace in Ukraine is predicated on the total capitulation of Ukraine to his buddy Putin. He has already said he will leave the land taken by Russia with Russia. Trump may also gift Russia the areas they did not take so the have the whole of the Donetsk region. He has already said the return of Crimea is not on the cards. That Ukraine cannot be allowed to join NATO. VP J D Vance's recent arrogant, high handed, announcement in Europe shows a contempt for Europe unprecedented in history. Not only did he promulgate lies he also insulted us. Ukrainians have fought and died for their country every day since Trump's buddy Putin invaded. Now Trump wants to impose a solution on the Ukranians "To stop the killing". Since Russians are dying 8:1 vs Ukrainians we know which lives this sociopath is wanting to save, and why. The key question now is why? Why is, what used to be, the "leader of the free world" wanting to reward a dictator and agressor? Could it be, using national security as an excuse, he intends to invade Greenland and Panama? Perhaps Canada? Will his deal with Putin carve out other areas of Europe for his buddy to take? Where next? Poland, Hungary, baltic states. Britain and the Europeans should immediately stop viewing the USA as an ally. We should give very serious consideration to commiting troops to fight on the side of Ukraine. Russia is weak and in disaray now. Trump obviously wants them strong again. We will not get a better opportunity to defend our nations against future aggression than now. pop over to Ukraine if you feel that strongly i hear they are looking for more bodies to throw into the front line, as for uk or european soilders fighting alongside yhe ukrainians you sound as deluded as trump What possible benefit would me going over there serve? I know war; it is Hell. This war was started and continued by Putin not Ukraine. Is your only solution to force Ukraine to capitulate? Is this the way the new right wing USA wishes to be known by its one time allies? "Deluded" means 'believing something that is not true'. I expressed an opinion that the combined armed forces of the Europe countries could eject Russia from Ukraine and Crimea. There are almost 2 million of them. If we do nothing Trump will give a huge area of a country he does not rule to a hostile foreign power he favoures. " But without the USA supply of arms, can the Ukrainian force take back what has been taken, if the analysis is they have no chance then they need to try and do a deal. Or if they think they can push back hard this summer with what the EU is willing to supply the they should go on. But the with longer the fighting goes on the longer the rebuild will take. | |||
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"Trump's proposal for peace in Ukraine is predicated on the total capitulation of Ukraine to his buddy Putin. He has already said he will leave the land taken by Russia with Russia. Trump may also gift Russia the areas they did not take so the have the whole of the Donetsk region. He has already said the return of Crimea is not on the cards. That Ukraine cannot be allowed to join NATO. VP J D Vance's recent arrogant, high handed, announcement in Europe shows a contempt for Europe unprecedented in history. Not only did he promulgate lies he also insulted us. Ukrainians have fought and died for their country every day since Trump's buddy Putin invaded. Now Trump wants to impose a solution on the Ukranians "To stop the killing". Since Russians are dying 8:1 vs Ukrainians we know which lives this sociopath is wanting to save, and why. The key question now is why? Why is, what used to be, the "leader of the free world" wanting to reward a dictator and agressor? Could it be, using national security as an excuse, he intends to invade Greenland and Panama? Perhaps Canada? Will his deal with Putin carve out other areas of Europe for his buddy to take? Where next? Poland, Hungary, baltic states. Britain and the Europeans should immediately stop viewing the USA as an ally. We should give very serious consideration to commiting troops to fight on the side of Ukraine. Russia is weak and in disaray now. Trump obviously wants them strong again. We will not get a better opportunity to defend our nations against future aggression than now. pop over to Ukraine if you feel that strongly i hear they are looking for more bodies to throw into the front line, as for uk or european soilders fighting alongside yhe ukrainians you sound as deluded as trump What possible benefit would me going over there serve? I know war; it is Hell. This war was started and continued by Putin not Ukraine. Is your only solution to force Ukraine to capitulate? Is this the way the new right wing USA wishes to be known by its one time allies? "Deluded" means 'believing something that is not true'. I expressed an opinion that the combined armed forces of the Europe countries could eject Russia from Ukraine and Crimea. There are almost 2 million of them. If we do nothing Trump will give a huge area of a country he does not rule to a hostile foreign power he favoures. Good luck to the EU and the UK in its war against Russia. I’m sure we will have no problem at all raising the money, arms and personnel for this. " Thank you.  | |||
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"Trump's proposal for peace in Ukraine is predicated on the total capitulation of Ukraine to his buddy Putin. He has already said he will leave the land taken by Russia with Russia. Trump may also gift Russia the areas they did not take so the have the whole of the Donetsk region. He has already said the return of Crimea is not on the cards. That Ukraine cannot be allowed to join NATO. VP J D Vance's recent arrogant, high handed, announcement in Europe shows a contempt for Europe unprecedented in history. Not only did he promulgate lies he also insulted us. Ukrainians have fought and died for their country every day since Trump's buddy Putin invaded. Now Trump wants to impose a solution on the Ukranians "To stop the killing". Since Russians are dying 8:1 vs Ukrainians we know which lives this sociopath is wanting to save, and why. The key question now is why? Why is, what used to be, the "leader of the free world" wanting to reward a dictator and agressor? Could it be, using national security as an excuse, he intends to invade Greenland and Panama? Perhaps Canada? Will his deal with Putin carve out other areas of Europe for his buddy to take? Where next? Poland, Hungary, baltic states. Britain and the Europeans should immediately stop viewing the USA as an ally. We should give very serious consideration to commiting troops to fight on the side of Ukraine. Russia is weak and in disaray now. Trump obviously wants them strong again. We will not get a better opportunity to defend our nations against future aggression than now. pop over to Ukraine if you feel that strongly i hear they are looking for more bodies to throw into the front line, as for uk or european soilders fighting alongside yhe ukrainians you sound as deluded as trump What possible benefit would me going over there serve? I know war; it is Hell. This war was started and continued by Putin not Ukraine. Is your only solution to force Ukraine to capitulate? Is this the way the new right wing USA wishes to be known by its one time allies? "Deluded" means 'believing something that is not true'. I expressed an opinion that the combined armed forces of the Europe countries could eject Russia from Ukraine and Crimea. There are almost 2 million of them. If we do nothing Trump will give a huge area of a country he does not rule to a hostile foreign power he favoures. Good luck to the EU and the UK in its war against Russia. I’m sure we will have no problem at all raising the money, arms and personnel for this. Thank you. "And fairies live at the bottom of the garden | |||
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"Trump's proposal for peace in Ukraine is predicated on the total capitulation of Ukraine to his buddy Putin. He has already said he will leave the land taken by Russia with Russia. Trump may also gift Russia the areas they did not take so the have the whole of the Donetsk region. He has already said the return of Crimea is not on the cards. That Ukraine cannot be allowed to join NATO. VP J D Vance's recent arrogant, high handed, announcement in Europe shows a contempt for Europe unprecedented in history. Not only did he promulgate lies he also insulted us. Ukrainians have fought and died for their country every day since Trump's buddy Putin invaded. Now Trump wants to impose a solution on the Ukranians "To stop the killing". Since Russians are dying 8:1 vs Ukrainians we know which lives this sociopath is wanting to save, and why. The key question now is why? Why is, what used to be, the "leader of the free world" wanting to reward a dictator and agressor? Could it be, using national security as an excuse, he intends to invade Greenland and Panama? Perhaps Canada? Will his deal with Putin carve out other areas of Europe for his buddy to take? Where next? Poland, Hungary, baltic states. Britain and the Europeans should immediately stop viewing the USA as an ally. We should give very serious consideration to commiting troops to fight on the side of Ukraine. Russia is weak and in disaray now. Trump obviously wants them strong again. We will not get a better opportunity to defend our nations against future aggression than now. pop over to Ukraine if you feel that strongly i hear they are looking for more bodies to throw into the front line, as for uk or european soilders fighting alongside yhe ukrainians you sound as deluded as trump What possible benefit would me going over there serve? I know war; it is Hell. This war was started and continued by Putin not Ukraine. Is your only solution to force Ukraine to capitulate? Is this the way the new right wing USA wishes to be known by its one time allies? "Deluded" means 'believing something that is not true'. I expressed an opinion that the combined armed forces of the Europe countries could eject Russia from Ukraine and Crimea. There are almost 2 million of them. If we do nothing Trump will give a huge area of a country he does not rule to a hostile foreign power he favoures. " europe would not and will not send troops into ukraine its a vote loser and like I said if you feel so strongly about the Ukrainians being invaded pop over and help them you seem to know what needs doing they could do with your knowledge | |||
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"Zelensky proposing a European army...Good luck with that one! "They'd be a grand sight! Ursela von der Leyen could issue them broomsticks for rifles (again) and they could march right up to the top of the hill. | |||
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"Zelensky proposing a European army...Good luck with that one! "However, this is precisely what is now needed whether the concept is liked or not. Most European armies have worked together anyway for decades under the NATO umbrella and so logistically it would be nothing new. I think it’s just some British Exceptionalists who guffaw in disbelief about Johnny Foreigner having foreign generals dictating to British troops. | |||
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"Zelensky proposing a European army...Good luck with that one!
However, this is precisely what is now needed whether the concept is liked or not.
Most European armies have worked together anyway for decades under the NATO umbrella and so logistically it would be nothing new.
I think it’s just some British Exceptionalists who guffaw in disbelief about Johnny Foreigner having foreign generals dictating to British troops. "Zelensky is just desperate to get everyone else involved in his failing war. There will be no European army. Why would anyone be taking advice from Zelensky about anything? | |||
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"Zelensky proposing a European army...Good luck with that one!
However, this is precisely what is now needed whether the concept is liked or not.
Most European armies have worked together anyway for decades under the NATO umbrella and so logistically it would be nothing new.
I think it’s just some British Exceptionalists who guffaw in disbelief about Johnny Foreigner having foreign generals dictating to British troops. "You must enjoy herding cats if you think there will ever be a workable EU/European army.  | |||
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"Zelensky proposing a European army...Good luck with that one!
However, this is precisely what is now needed whether the concept is liked or not.
Most European armies have worked together anyway for decades under the NATO umbrella and so logistically it would be nothing new.
I think it’s just some British Exceptionalists who guffaw in disbelief about Johnny Foreigner having foreign generals dictating to British troops.
Zelensky is just desperate to get everyone else involved in his failing war.
There will be no European army.
Why would anyone be taking advice from Zelensky about anything?
"It’s not Zelensky’s war. He didn’t invade his neighbour. | |||
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"Zelensky proposing a European army...Good luck with that one!
However, this is precisely what is now needed whether the concept is liked or not.
Most European armies have worked together anyway for decades under the NATO umbrella and so logistically it would be nothing new.
I think it’s just some British Exceptionalists who guffaw in disbelief about Johnny Foreigner having foreign generals dictating to British troops. "The start will be getting all NATO / EU members to spend 2.3% to 2.5% of GDP if this is not the case you still have one country proving up the other UK is 2.3% but we are about the biggest spenders in NATO not including the USA. | |||
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"Trump's proposal for peace in Ukraine is predicated on the total capitulation of Ukraine to his buddy Putin. He has already said he will leave the land taken by Russia with Russia. Trump may also gift Russia the areas they did not take so the have the whole of the Donetsk region. He has already said the return of Crimea is not on the cards. That Ukraine cannot be allowed to join NATO. VP J D Vance's recent arrogant, high handed, announcement in Europe shows a contempt for Europe unprecedented in history. Not only did he promulgate lies he also insulted us. Ukrainians have fought and died for their country every day since Trump's buddy Putin invaded. Now Trump wants to impose a solution on the Ukranians "To stop the killing". Since Russians are dying 8:1 vs Ukrainians we know which lives this sociopath is wanting to save, and why. The key question now is why? Why is, what used to be, the "leader of the free world" wanting to reward a dictator and agressor? Could it be, using national security as an excuse, he intends to invade Greenland and Panama? Perhaps Canada? Will his deal with Putin carve out other areas of Europe for his buddy to take? Where next? Poland, Hungary, baltic states. Britain and the Europeans should immediately stop viewing the USA as an ally. We should give very serious consideration to commiting troops to fight on the side of Ukraine. Russia is weak and in disaray now. Trump obviously wants them strong again. We will not get a better opportunity to defend our nations against future aggression than now. pop over to Ukraine if you feel that strongly i hear they are looking for more bodies to throw into the front line, as for uk or european soilders fighting alongside yhe ukrainians you sound as deluded as trump What possible benefit would me going over there serve? I know war; it is Hell. This war was started and continued by Putin not Ukraine. Is your only solution to force Ukraine to capitulate? Is this the way the new right wing USA wishes to be known by its one time allies? "Deluded" means 'believing something that is not true'. I expressed an opinion that the combined armed forces of the Europe countries could eject Russia from Ukraine and Crimea. There are almost 2 million of them. If we do nothing Trump will give a huge area of a country he does not rule to a hostile foreign power he favoures. Good luck to the EU and the UK in its war against Russia. I’m sure we will have no problem at all raising the money, arms and personnel for this. Thank you.
And fairies live at the bottom of the garden "Come on! Surely you don't belive in fairies? | |||
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"The best analogy I can make to describe NATO is it’s a gang run by a bully. Most of its members are there to avoid being the victim of the bully. Good luck expecting any of them to volunteer to pay more than the minimum possible." Which part of Russia do you live in? Just asking for a friend.  | |||
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"The best analogy I can make to describe NATO is it’s a gang run by a bully. Most of its members are there to avoid being the victim of the bully. Good luck expecting any of them to volunteer to pay more than the minimum possible." Well the minimum should be 2% but most of Europe are only at 1.5% of GDP so not even paying the minimum. | |||
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"Trump blamed Ukraine for starting the war which is wrong. Putin didn't start the war either. Jo biden and NATO started the war with their bragging about Ukraine joining NATO " It must have been those hurty words | |||
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"Trump blamed Ukraine for starting the war which is wrong. Putin didn't start the war either. Jo biden and NATO started the war with their bragging about Ukraine joining NATO It must have been those hurty words" Putin the snowflake.. | |||
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"Taken from the National Security Archive. “ Washington D.C., December 12, 2017 – U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion in his meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9, 1990, was part of a cascade of assurances about Soviet security given by Western leaders to Gorbachev and other Soviet officials throughout the process of German unification in 1990 and on into 1991, according to declassified U.S., Soviet, German, British and French documents posted today by the National Security Archive at George Washington University”. This was a condition of the ending of the USSR as a state." Nato did not expand into Ukraine though And Nato spending has reduced throughout Europe Both posing less of a threat to Russia. And Russia has enjoyed the benefits of integrating trade within Europe, unrestricted travel etc. | |||
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"Taken from the National Security Archive. “ Washington D.C., December 12, 2017 – U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion in his meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9, 1990, was part of a cascade of assurances about Soviet security given by Western leaders to Gorbachev and other Soviet officials throughout the process of German unification in 1990 and on into 1991, according to declassified U.S., Soviet, German, British and French documents posted today by the National Security Archive at George Washington University”. This was a condition of the ending of the USSR as a state. Nato did not expand into Ukraine though And Nato spending has reduced throughout Europe Both posing less of a threat to Russia. And Russia has enjoyed the benefits of integrating trade within Europe, unrestricted travel etc. " “Not one inch” NATO did move east and the Ukraine was offered the chance to join by George Bush. Right on the Russian border. Every move a threat to Russia and its peace accord. | |||
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"Taken from the National Security Archive. “ Washington D.C., December 12, 2017 – U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion in his meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9, 1990, was part of a cascade of assurances about Soviet security given by Western leaders to Gorbachev and other Soviet officials throughout the process of German unification in 1990 and on into 1991, according to declassified U.S., Soviet, German, British and French documents posted today by the National Security Archive at George Washington University”. This was a condition of the ending of the USSR as a state." It was in economic meltdown and falling apart as it was.. The better option at the time rather than full on revolt by the subjects of a failed enterprise. | |||
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"Taken from the National Security Archive. “ Washington D.C., December 12, 2017 – U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion in his meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9, 1990, was part of a cascade of assurances about Soviet security given by Western leaders to Gorbachev and other Soviet officials throughout the process of German unification in 1990 and on into 1991, according to declassified U.S., Soviet, German, British and French documents posted today by the National Security Archive at George Washington University”. This was a condition of the ending of the USSR as a state. It was in economic meltdown and falling apart as it was.. The better option at the time rather than full on revolt by the subjects of a failed enterprise. " how is that comment relevant to the Ukraine or this debate today? | |||
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"Taken from the National Security Archive. “ Washington D.C., December 12, 2017 – U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion in his meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9, 1990, was part of a cascade of assurances about Soviet security given by Western leaders to Gorbachev and other Soviet officials throughout the process of German unification in 1990 and on into 1991, according to declassified U.S., Soviet, German, British and French documents posted today by the National Security Archive at George Washington University”. This was a condition of the ending of the USSR as a state. It was in economic meltdown and falling apart as it was.. The better option at the time rather than full on revolt by the subjects of a failed enterprise. how is that comment relevant to the Ukraine or this debate today?" That's a strange response, did you quote about Gorbachev and the situation then which Putin has stated was one of Russia's darkest times with the breakup of the USSR and has led to the current conflict since 2014 in Ukraine just for information..? | |||
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"Reading some of the last posts do some people not feal for the family that are getting bombed on the Ukraine side. And starved on the Russia side. It not a popular thought but the Russia people are suffering as well. Food is short family's are sending men to die. All because of a land grab my Putin.." was anyone feeling sorry for the familys in the east who were getting bombed by there own goverment after the ukraine coup orchestrated by victoria nuland | |||
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"‘Trump calls Zelenskyy a ‘dictator’ who should ‘move fast’ or lose country as row with Ukraine leader worsens’ Going bad fast " Zelensky is done. | |||
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"Taken from the National Security Archive. “ Washington D.C., December 12, 2017 – U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion in his meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9, 1990, was part of a cascade of assurances about Soviet security given by Western leaders to Gorbachev and other Soviet officials throughout the process of German unification in 1990 and on into 1991, according to declassified U.S., Soviet, German, British and French documents posted today by the National Security Archive at George Washington University”. This was a condition of the ending of the USSR as a state. Nato did not expand into Ukraine though And Nato spending has reduced throughout Europe Both posing less of a threat to Russia. And Russia has enjoyed the benefits of integrating trade within Europe, unrestricted travel etc. “Not one inch” NATO did move east and the Ukraine was offered the chance to join by George Bush. Right on the Russian border. Every move a threat to Russia and its peace accord." "Your nation has made a bold decision, and the United States strongly supports your request," Bush told a news conference alongside Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko. "In Bucharest this week, I will continue to make America's position clear. We support MAP for Ukraine and Georgia. Helping Ukraine move towards NATO membership is in the interest of every member in the alliance and will help advance security and freedom in this region and around the world." NATO states had told Bush that "Russia will not have a veto over what happens next in Bucharest and I take their word for it. And that's the right policy to have." (Reuters April 2008) | |||
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"‘Trump calls Zelenskyy a ‘dictator’ who should ‘move fast’ or lose country as row with Ukraine leader worsens’ Going bad fast " Putin is pissing himself laughing.. | |||
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"Taken from the National Security Archive. “ Washington D.C., December 12, 2017 – U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion in his meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9, 1990, was part of a cascade of assurances about Soviet security given by Western leaders to Gorbachev and other Soviet officials throughout the process of German unification in 1990 and on into 1991, according to declassified U.S., Soviet, German, British and French documents posted today by the National Security Archive at George Washington University”. This was a condition of the ending of the USSR as a state. It was in economic meltdown and falling apart as it was.. The better option at the time rather than full on revolt by the subjects of a failed enterprise. how is that comment relevant to the Ukraine or this debate today? That's a strange response, did you quote about Gorbachev and the situation then which Putin has stated was one of Russia's darkest times with the breakup of the USSR and has led to the current conflict since 2014 in Ukraine just for information..? " This supports my case. Putin wasn’t happy with the breakup of the USSR. Then NATO pushed east knowing Putin might jump at the chance to play the victim. | |||
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"Four more years...Trump for the win common sense finally coming to the foreground " Trump and common sense? Have you ever heard him speak? | |||
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"Zelensky proposing a European army...Good luck with that one!
They'd be a grand sight! Ursela von der Leyen could issue them broomsticks for rifles (again) and they could march right up to the top of the hill."And with the Grand old Duke of York, he marched them down again  | |||
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"Reading the bbc article and trumps further remarks it’s clear the new USA administration is done with Ukraine. Europe have no appetite to step up for this fight either. Russia will keep the claimed territories and put an intimidating force on Ukraine’s new border. Europes leaders have had there pants pulled down and looking very inadequate now. " Sadly I think that's a very accurate assessment. | |||
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"Fuck that little gay porn star, money laundering prick Zalensky. Where has all that money gone? Let’s ask the short prick, see what he says? No more money , no troops (unless the liebour party want to volunteer?) Get that little nazi fuck out of the Ukraine and let the people decide what to do with the money laundering wanker." Can you ever discuss things without cussing people? | |||
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"Reading the bbc article and trumps further remarks it’s clear the new USA administration is done with Ukraine. Europe have no appetite to step up for this fight either. Russia will keep the claimed territories and put an intimidating force on Ukraine’s new border. Europes leaders have had there pants pulled down and looking very inadequate now. " The US administration has no need to continue funding Ukraines war. They’ve thrown enough money at it to monopolies the agricultural land and mineral resources that they wanted from the beginning. | |||
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"I don’t support Trump, Zelensky or Putin. Both Zelensky and Putin qualify as dictators. Zelensky has better PR in the west, that’s all. He was never elected. To take power he aligned himself with neo-Nazis who burned alive the Democratic Party opposition. He outlawed a religious minority. He outlawed one of the Ukraine’s native languages. He’s accrued huge wealth from the funds sent to wage war. Sounds like a dictator to me." Zelenskyy was elected… he won 73% of votes in an election 4 yrs ago…. In an election overseen by international observers and deemed to be free and fair When was the last time Putin won a free and fair election ? | |||
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"I don’t support Trump, Zelensky or Putin. Both Zelensky and Putin qualify as dictators. Zelensky has better PR in the west, that’s all. He was never elected. To take power he aligned himself with neo-Nazis who burned alive the Democratic Party opposition. He outlawed a religious minority. He outlawed one of the Ukraine’s native languages. He’s accrued huge wealth from the funds sent to wage war. Sounds like a dictator to me. Zelenskyy was elected… he won 73% of votes in an election 4 yrs ago…. In an election overseen by international observers and deemed to be free and fair When was the last time Putin won a free and fair election ?" In 2014 neo-Nazis rounded up the Democratic Party opposition, trapped them in a building and burned it to the ground. 2019 Zelensky won the election in coalition with the same neo-Nazis. The coalition got 73% of the vote, not Zelensky. If I remember right he got around 30% of the vote. The 5 year term ended last year. Zelensky cancelled the election. | |||
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"My son is in the military, whose sympathies lie with Russia apparently. Ukraine has a terrible human rights record according to him" And the invasion by Russia with all the reported and confirmed war crimes and atrocities are acceptable I assume? | |||
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"It should not be forgot by all that the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.Some on here need to grow a pair." How are things on the Russian Front? I presume you are already there on the front line….. | |||
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"My son is in the military, whose sympathies lie with Russia apparently. Ukraine has a terrible human rights record according to him And the invasion by Russia with all the reported and confirmed war crimes and atrocities are acceptable I assume?" Don't believe all you read in the media. The Ukraines accused Russia of random civilian killing - bodies that they filmed lying along a road. Russians denied it. Bodies inspected - they'd been taken out of morgues and had had autopsies performed on them. Radio 4 'Fake News' programme | |||
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"My son is in the military, whose sympathies lie with Russia apparently. Ukraine has a terrible human rights record according to him And the invasion by Russia with all the reported and confirmed war crimes and atrocities are acceptable I assume? Don't believe all you read in the media. The Ukraines accused Russia of random civilian killing - bodies that they filmed lying along a road. Russians denied it. Bodies inspected - they'd been taken out of morgues and had had autopsies performed on them. Radio 4 'Fake News' programme" Independently verified and let's not forget who invaded who | |||
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"My son is in the military, whose sympathies lie with Russia apparently. Ukraine has a terrible human rights record according to him" They have a major nazi problem. Probably the worst in the world. | |||
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"Trump will throw Ukraine under the bus. A travesty of justice for the brave people of Ukraine who have done all the West a huge service by standing-up to Putin at enormous cost to themselves. It pretty much sends out the message that a hostile state can invade another country then expect to keep it's territorial gains in peace negotiations. Perhaps that's the way Trump sees the future. In which case, Europe had better re-arm and fast. did you honestly belive ukraine were going to win and get there land back? There running out of cannon fodder what then? Send nato in? Yes, I do think Ukraine could and should have got it's land back eventually. Otherwise we have global anarchy in which any country can march across the border into another and keep the spoils. Who next? Estonia? Poland? Germany? " Or perhaps just as likely Panama, Canada or Greenland. Trump won't stop Putin because he doesn't believe Putin's Russia has done anything wrong and he'd do the same himself, as he's showing with his threats to Panama, Canada and Greenland. | |||
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"This was always the likely outcome, with or without Trump. The alternative is more needless deaths and an increased risk of a wider European conflict. The reality is simple: Ukraine cannot join NATO because NATO’s own rules prevent countries with ongoing territorial disputes from joining. Russia holds that card. The U.S. is not going to pour endless billions into a war with no path to outright victory. It makes sense to stop now and avoid further loss of life. Trump holds that card. Ukraine can continue fighting, but with no US support, they are unlikely to regain lost territory and will probably lose more. Alternatively, they can call a ceasefire and begin negotiations. They should expect nothing in terms, but at least the war would end. Zelensky holds that card. What is the alternative? " The alternative is to stand firm and resist, like Britain did in 1940. If Ukraine was going to give up it would have done so in 2022. They didn't and they won't now. Trying to force an unjust peace in Ukraine is simply a recipe for an unstable Europe. | |||
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"Putin's a murdering bully and the worst way to deal with his type is to appease and show weakness.. He only recognises strength.. Are you willing to go and fight for Ukraine. Or should I say the politicians who want to keep this war going. Because volunteers who felt strong enough have gone from the west and died. It ok to talk tough as long has it's others loved ones going to put their life on the line." And it's just as easy to talk peace & love when it's other people's loved ones who'll be living under a tyranny. Not many if any want war but for most there comes a point where the price of peace is higher than the price of war. For most Ukrainians that day came in February 2022. Maybe one day, when people you know are being suppressed, that day will come for you too; or maybe not. But if the Ukrainians are willing to risk their lives lives for their freedom I'm willing to back them and not insist that they throw their freedom away for the expedience of peace. There can be no peace without justice. | |||
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"A lot of Ukraines were offered refugee accommodation in Poland and went back to Kiev because they didn't like it - they were filmed and interviewed on the news. As were the Ukrainian men hiding in car boots etc to escape cos they didn't want to fight. " Around 210,000 people had arrived in the UK by 16 July 2024 using one of the two bespoke entry visa schemes for Ukrainians. This was out of a total of 342,000 applications submitted under the schemes, and about 261,000 visas which had been issued. Around 2,300 applications remained pending. Official ONS estimates suggest that many Ukrainians who arrived in the UK left within a year, since long-term immigration to 31 December 2023 was only 108,000. (Migration observatory). That now gives Uk, Poland and others vacancies and capacity to take Palestinian refugees ? | |||
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"My son is in the military, whose sympathies lie with Russia apparently. Ukraine has a terrible human rights record according to him They have a major nazi problem. Probably the worst in the world." Is he compering Ukraine with the UK or compering Russia to Ukraine both look very different. | |||
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"Fuck that little gay porn star, money laundering prick Zalensky. Where has all that money gone? Let’s ask the short prick, see what he says? No more money , no troops (unless the liebour party want to volunteer?) Get that little nazi fuck out of the Ukraine and let the people decide what to do with the money laundering wanker." Is this a Russian bot? | |||
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"MMMMM hasn't had an election, trump calls him a dictator without election interesting how Trump exposes certain things. His not fibbing is he?" During WW2 Britain did not have an election, ergo, Churchill was a dictator not a national hero. Yeah right.
Elections are not normally held in wartime. Trump is too stupid to know that but others should be able to grasp the simple concept. | |||
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"MMMMM hasn't had an election, trump calls him a dictator without election interesting how Trump exposes certain things. His not fibbing is he? During WW2 Britain did not have an election, ergo, Churchill was a dictator not a national hero. Yeah right.
Elections are not normally held in wartime. Trump is too stupid to know that but others should be able to grasp the simple concept. "No they are not but this example only makes my point, if dictators as the MSM and politicians state they are, are usually at war or having a civil war and MSM and politicians like to point out he or they have not held an election even though the country is in a state of distress. As for Churchill he was kicked out sorry had to resign due to a labour landslide, so in short the electorate kicked him out on his arse he lost so bad he had to resign. What a hero  | |||
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"It’s odd that Biden has pardoned his entire family back to 2014. The only significance of that date seems to be Ukraine. Maybe in time we will find out why the Biden regime was so obsessed with a minor border dispute in eastern Ukraine. And why the EU and UK decided to cause so much damage to their own economies to appease the US." Biden's Pardons would not have meant much in 2014. He was not President. Least we forget, when Hitler's Special Military Operation entered Poland in 1939 - it was only a minor border dispute. In April 1941 his troops entered Denmark and Norway. These minor border disputes breed like rabbits. May 1941: Oopsy daisey! Germany has a problem with the borders of Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, and France. "Darn it! We must get our maps updated". Says a smiling Adolf Hitler. | |||
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"MMMMM hasn't had an election, trump calls him a dictator without election interesting how Trump exposes certain things. His not fibbing is he? During WW2 Britain did not have an election, ergo, Churchill was a dictator not a national hero. Yeah right.
Elections are not normally held in wartime. Trump is too stupid to know that but others should be able to grasp the simple concept.
No they are not but this example only makes my point, if dictators as the MSM and politicians state they are, are usually at war or having a civil war and MSM and politicians like to point out he or they have not held an election even though the country is in a state of distress.
As for Churchill he was kicked out sorry had to resign due to a labour landslide, so in short the electorate kicked him out on his arse he lost so bad he had to resign.
What a hero "WW2 was hell for the people of Britain and much of it was later blamed on the Chrchill led Government of National unity. He may have won the war but the people liked what the Labour party were offering more. Different times; different politics. | |||
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"MMMMM hasn't had an election, trump calls him a dictator without election interesting how Trump exposes certain things. His not fibbing is he?" As with most things trump says “wildly misleading “ The Ukrainian constitution states a presidential election must be held every five years with the exception being martial law being called in the case of a war….. So.. unless you are Russian and want to keep calling it a “special operation “ … I think this counts! P.s all the different political parties in the Ukrainian parliament actually agree with this stance | |||
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"MMMMM hasn't had an election, trump calls him a dictator without election interesting how Trump exposes certain things. His not fibbing is he? As with most things trump says “wildly misleading “ The Ukrainian constitution states a presidential election must be held every five years with the exception being martial law being called in the case of a war….. So.. unless you are Russian and want to keep calling it a “special operation “ … I think this counts! P.s all the different political parties in the Ukrainian parliament actually agree with this stance" And besides.. Trump was the one begging and pleading for the us presidential election to be “postponed” in 2020 because of COVID….. | |||
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"This was always the likely outcome, with or without Trump. The alternative is more needless deaths and an increased risk of a wider European conflict. The reality is simple: Ukraine cannot join NATO because NATO’s own rules prevent countries with ongoing territorial disputes from joining. Russia holds that card. The U.S. is not going to pour endless billions into a war with no path to outright victory. It makes sense to stop now and avoid further loss of life. Trump holds that card. Ukraine can continue fighting, but with no US support, they are unlikely to regain lost territory and will probably lose more. Alternatively, they can call a ceasefire and begin negotiations. They should expect nothing in terms, but at least the war would end. Zelensky holds that card. What is the alternative? The alternative is to stand firm and resist, like Britain did in 1940. If Ukraine was going to give up it would have done so in 2022. They didn't and they won't now. Trying to force an unjust peace in Ukraine is simply a recipe for an unstable Europe." Ukraine is losing land and people with all the support they had, taking away 42% of that support is going to be catastrophic. There comes a time when a clear head is needed, being blinded by the wrongs and taking the country into a place that could see even more loss of land and life without having the ability to stop it is pure foolishness. It is interesting that you have said forced unjust peace on Ukraine, that isn't the outcome, that is emotional thinking. The end of the war will bring a stop to the land grab and killing, that is not rewarding Russia! It will allow Ukraine to regroup, rebuild and put in place measures to never let this happen again. That is the key to progress in my opinion, the strategic years ahead that reinforce the borders preventing Russia from repeating the same thing for a 3rd time. Europe and NATO, need to stand up for who they are and not keep stepping into the shadows to avoid Russian aggression | |||
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"This was always the likely outcome, with or without Trump. The alternative is more needless deaths and an increased risk of a wider European conflict. The reality is simple: Ukraine cannot join NATO because NATO’s own rules prevent countries with ongoing territorial disputes from joining. Russia holds that card. The U.S. is not going to pour endless billions into a war with no path to outright victory. It makes sense to stop now and avoid further loss of life. Trump holds that card. Ukraine can continue fighting, but with no US support, they are unlikely to regain lost territory and will probably lose more. Alternatively, they can call a ceasefire and begin negotiations. They should expect nothing in terms, but at least the war would end. Zelensky holds that card. What is the alternative? The alternative is to stand firm and resist, like Britain did in 1940. If Ukraine was going to give up it would have done so in 2022. They didn't and they won't now. Trying to force an unjust peace in Ukraine is simply a recipe for an unstable Europe. Ukraine is losing land and people with all the support they had, taking away 42% of that support is going to be catastrophic. There comes a time when a clear head is needed, being blinded by the wrongs and taking the country into a place that could see even more loss of land and life without having the ability to stop it is pure foolishness. It is interesting that you have said forced unjust peace on Ukraine, that isn't the outcome, that is emotional thinking. The end of the war will bring a stop to the land grab and killing, that is not rewarding Russia! It will allow Ukraine to regroup, rebuild and put in place measures to never let this happen again. That is the key to progress in my opinion, the strategic years ahead that reinforce the borders preventing Russia from repeating the same thing for a 3rd time. Europe and NATO, need to stand up for who they are and not keep stepping into the shadows to avoid Russian aggression" That's if Russia allow Ukraine to regroup. History tells us they won't. | |||
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"MMMMM hasn't had an election, trump calls him a dictator without election interesting how Trump exposes certain things. His not fibbing is he?" The country is under martial law because of the war. On news at 10 last night, a Ukrainian MP in opposition was making this statement, and that the country is behind "this democratically elected leader". | |||
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"This was always the likely outcome, with or without Trump. The alternative is more needless deaths and an increased risk of a wider European conflict. The reality is simple: Ukraine cannot join NATO because NATO’s own rules prevent countries with ongoing territorial disputes from joining. Russia holds that card. The U.S. is not going to pour endless billions into a war with no path to outright victory. It makes sense to stop now and avoid further loss of life. Trump holds that card. Ukraine can continue fighting, but with no US support, they are unlikely to regain lost territory and will probably lose more. Alternatively, they can call a ceasefire and begin negotiations. They should expect nothing in terms, but at least the war would end. Zelensky holds that card. What is the alternative? The alternative is to stand firm and resist, like Britain did in 1940. If Ukraine was going to give up it would have done so in 2022. They didn't and they won't now. Trying to force an unjust peace in Ukraine is simply a recipe for an unstable Europe. Ukraine is losing land and people with all the support they had, taking away 42% of that support is going to be catastrophic. There comes a time when a clear head is needed, being blinded by the wrongs and taking the country into a place that could see even more loss of land and life without having the ability to stop it is pure foolishness. It is interesting that you have said forced unjust peace on Ukraine, that isn't the outcome, that is emotional thinking. The end of the war will bring a stop to the land grab and killing, that is not rewarding Russia! It will allow Ukraine to regroup, rebuild and put in place measures to never let this happen again. That is the key to progress in my opinion, the strategic years ahead that reinforce the borders preventing Russia from repeating the same thing for a 3rd time. Europe and NATO, need to stand up for who they are and not keep stepping into the shadows to avoid Russian aggression That's if Russia allow Ukraine to regroup. History tells us they won't." Exactly, and this is why Europe and NATO if they are good for their word need to stand up and stop Putin as a collective. Right now it is all saber rattling from Europe as they hide behind an ongoing conflict. Once that conflict ends they need to show their worth and not just their words. | |||
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"This was always the likely outcome, with or without Trump. The alternative is more needless deaths and an increased risk of a wider European conflict. The reality is simple: Ukraine cannot join NATO because NATO’s own rules prevent countries with ongoing territorial disputes from joining. Russia holds that card. The U.S. is not going to pour endless billions into a war with no path to outright victory. It makes sense to stop now and avoid further loss of life. Trump holds that card. Ukraine can continue fighting, but with no US support, they are unlikely to regain lost territory and will probably lose more. Alternatively, they can call a ceasefire and begin negotiations. They should expect nothing in terms, but at least the war would end. Zelensky holds that card. What is the alternative? The alternative is to stand firm and resist, like Britain did in 1940. If Ukraine was going to give up it would have done so in 2022. They didn't and they won't now. Trying to force an unjust peace in Ukraine is simply a recipe for an unstable Europe. Ukraine is losing land and people with all the support they had, taking away 42% of that support is going to be catastrophic. There comes a time when a clear head is needed, being blinded by the wrongs and taking the country into a place that could see even more loss of land and life without having the ability to stop it is pure foolishness. It is interesting that you have said forced unjust peace on Ukraine, that isn't the outcome, that is emotional thinking. The end of the war will bring a stop to the land grab and killing, that is not rewarding Russia! It will allow Ukraine to regroup, rebuild and put in place measures to never let this happen again. That is the key to progress in my opinion, the strategic years ahead that reinforce the borders preventing Russia from repeating the same thing for a 3rd time. Europe and NATO, need to stand up for who they are and not keep stepping into the shadows to avoid Russian aggression" Oh! I do love children's stories "And they all lived happily ever after". Sadly that is not true. Trump's long standing support for Russia is not a figment of anyone's imagination, it exists. Trump aligns with Putin. He wants to run the USA like Russia. To take land by military force like Russia. To keep that land without fear of real reprisals, just like Russia does. If we let Putin off with a land grab now he WILL return in a year or so, before Trump leaves office, but after Trump has withdrawn from NATO. Well before the European nations have sized up their armed forces to cover the USAs departure. Then it is good bye Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, Moldova, Romania etc. Trump says - "Mr Putin says those countries and NATO were presenting a threat and he is just protecting his country. I believe Mr Putin". | |||
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"This was always the likely outcome, with or without Trump. The alternative is more needless deaths and an increased risk of a wider European conflict. The reality is simple: Ukraine cannot join NATO because NATO’s own rules prevent countries with ongoing territorial disputes from joining. Russia holds that card. The U.S. is not going to pour endless billions into a war with no path to outright victory. It makes sense to stop now and avoid further loss of life. Trump holds that card. Ukraine can continue fighting, but with no US support, they are unlikely to regain lost territory and will probably lose more. Alternatively, they can call a ceasefire and begin negotiations. They should expect nothing in terms, but at least the war would end. Zelensky holds that card. What is the alternative? The alternative is to stand firm and resist, like Britain did in 1940. If Ukraine was going to give up it would have done so in 2022. They didn't and they won't now. Trying to force an unjust peace in Ukraine is simply a recipe for an unstable Europe. Ukraine is losing land and people with all the support they had, taking away 42% of that support is going to be catastrophic. There comes a time when a clear head is needed, being blinded by the wrongs and taking the country into a place that could see even more loss of land and life without having the ability to stop it is pure foolishness. It is interesting that you have said forced unjust peace on Ukraine, that isn't the outcome, that is emotional thinking. The end of the war will bring a stop to the land grab and killing, that is not rewarding Russia! It will allow Ukraine to regroup, rebuild and put in place measures to never let this happen again. That is the key to progress in my opinion, the strategic years ahead that reinforce the borders preventing Russia from repeating the same thing for a 3rd time. Europe and NATO, need to stand up for who they are and not keep stepping into the shadows to avoid Russian aggression Oh! I do love children's stories "And they all lived happily ever after". Sadly that is not true. Trump's long standing support for Russia is not a figment of anyone's imagination, it exists. Trump aligns with Putin. He wants to run the USA like Russia. To take land by military force like Russia. To keep that land without fear of real reprisals, just like Russia does. If we let Putin off with a land grab now he WILL return in a year or so, before Trump leaves office, but after Trump has withdrawn from NATO. Well before the European nations have sized up their armed forces to cover the USAs departure. Then it is good bye Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, Moldova, Romania etc. Trump says - "Mr Putin says those countries and NATO were presenting a threat and he is just protecting his country. I believe Mr Putin". " You say you don't like children's stories | |||
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"This was always the likely outcome, with or without Trump. The alternative is more needless deaths and an increased risk of a wider European conflict. The reality is simple: Ukraine cannot join NATO because NATO’s own rules prevent countries with ongoing territorial disputes from joining. Russia holds that card. The U.S. is not going to pour endless billions into a war with no path to outright victory. It makes sense to stop now and avoid further loss of life. Trump holds that card. Ukraine can continue fighting, but with no US support, they are unlikely to regain lost territory and will probably lose more. Alternatively, they can call a ceasefire and begin negotiations. They should expect nothing in terms, but at least the war would end. Zelensky holds that card. What is the alternative? The alternative is to stand firm and resist, like Britain did in 1940. If Ukraine was going to give up it would have done so in 2022. They didn't and they won't now. Trying to force an unjust peace in Ukraine is simply a recipe for an unstable Europe. Ukraine is losing land and people with all the support they had, taking away 42% of that support is going to be catastrophic. There comes a time when a clear head is needed, being blinded by the wrongs and taking the country into a place that could see even more loss of land and life without having the ability to stop it is pure foolishness. It is interesting that you have said forced unjust peace on Ukraine, that isn't the outcome, that is emotional thinking. The end of the war will bring a stop to the land grab and killing, that is not rewarding Russia! It will allow Ukraine to regroup, rebuild and put in place measures to never let this happen again. That is the key to progress in my opinion, the strategic years ahead that reinforce the borders preventing Russia from repeating the same thing for a 3rd time. Europe and NATO, need to stand up for who they are and not keep stepping into the shadows to avoid Russian aggression Oh! I do love children's stories "And they all lived happily ever after". Sadly that is not true. Trump's long standing support for Russia is not a figment of anyone's imagination, it exists. Trump aligns with Putin. He wants to run the USA like Russia. To take land by military force like Russia. To keep that land without fear of real reprisals, just like Russia does. If we let Putin off with a land grab now he WILL return in a year or so, before Trump leaves office, but after Trump has withdrawn from NATO. Well before the European nations have sized up their armed forces to cover the USAs departure. Then it is good bye Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, Moldova, Romania etc. Trump says - "Mr Putin says those countries and NATO were presenting a threat and he is just protecting his country. I believe Mr Putin". You say you don't like children's stories "Putin has launched 3x invasions since 2008; what makes you think he will pause after this settlement? Russians have already stated they will not accept NATO troops to be present in Ukraine...does that mean non-NATO troops/UN peacekeepers are needed in Ukraine? Trump has shown he cannot be trusted; I don't think this is 4D chess he is playing | |||
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"This was always the likely outcome, with or without Trump. The alternative is more needless deaths and an increased risk of a wider European conflict. The reality is simple: Ukraine cannot join NATO because NATO’s own rules prevent countries with ongoing territorial disputes from joining. Russia holds that card. The U.S. is not going to pour endless billions into a war with no path to outright victory. It makes sense to stop now and avoid further loss of life. Trump holds that card. Ukraine can continue fighting, but with no US support, they are unlikely to regain lost territory and will probably lose more. Alternatively, they can call a ceasefire and begin negotiations. They should expect nothing in terms, but at least the war would end. Zelensky holds that card. What is the alternative? The alternative is to stand firm and resist, like Britain did in 1940. If Ukraine was going to give up it would have done so in 2022. They didn't and they won't now. Trying to force an unjust peace in Ukraine is simply a recipe for an unstable Europe. Ukraine is losing land and people with all the support they had, taking away 42% of that support is going to be catastrophic. There comes a time when a clear head is needed, being blinded by the wrongs and taking the country into a place that could see even more loss of land and life without having the ability to stop it is pure foolishness. It is interesting that you have said forced unjust peace on Ukraine, that isn't the outcome, that is emotional thinking. The end of the war will bring a stop to the land grab and killing, that is not rewarding Russia! It will allow Ukraine to regroup, rebuild and put in place measures to never let this happen again. That is the key to progress in my opinion, the strategic years ahead that reinforce the borders preventing Russia from repeating the same thing for a 3rd time. Europe and NATO, need to stand up for who they are and not keep stepping into the shadows to avoid Russian aggression Oh! I do love children's stories "And they all lived happily ever after". Sadly that is not true. Trump's long standing support for Russia is not a figment of anyone's imagination, it exists. Trump aligns with Putin. He wants to run the USA like Russia. To take land by military force like Russia. To keep that land without fear of real reprisals, just like Russia does. If we let Putin off with a land grab now he WILL return in a year or so, before Trump leaves office, but after Trump has withdrawn from NATO. Well before the European nations have sized up their armed forces to cover the USAs departure. Then it is good bye Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, Moldova, Romania etc. Trump says - "Mr Putin says those countries and NATO were presenting a threat and he is just protecting his country. I believe Mr Putin". You say you don't like children's stories "I said I do.
Believing Putin and Trump will leave the rest of Ukraine and all its rare earth minerals alone in the future is madness. Russia must be kept out by force. | |||
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"I really don’t know what is happening with the Trumpster. I hope that there is some sort of method to this madness. If not then I find myself asking wtf is going on with him…" Without seeking to be insulting, I believe his advanced age and the pressures of office are bringing on dementia. He no longer can hold for very long the concentration necessary to spin his lies. As a consequence the truth in his thinking is coming out and showing the real aims of a narcissistic megalomaniac. It is truly shocking. The American people must be cringing when he comes out with some of his statements. Even the MAGA faithful must be asking themselves if what he is doing and saying now is what they voted for. | |||
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"This was always the likely outcome, with or without Trump. The alternative is more needless deaths and an increased risk of a wider European conflict. The reality is simple: Ukraine cannot join NATO because NATO’s own rules prevent countries with ongoing territorial disputes from joining. Russia holds that card. The U.S. is not going to pour endless billions into a war with no path to outright victory. It makes sense to stop now and avoid further loss of life. Trump holds that card. Ukraine can continue fighting, but with no US support, they are unlikely to regain lost territory and will probably lose more. Alternatively, they can call a ceasefire and begin negotiations. They should expect nothing in terms, but at least the war would end. Zelensky holds that card. What is the alternative? The alternative is to stand firm and resist, like Britain did in 1940. If Ukraine was going to give up it would have done so in 2022. They didn't and they won't now. Trying to force an unjust peace in Ukraine is simply a recipe for an unstable Europe. Ukraine is losing land and people with all the support they had, taking away 42% of that support is going to be catastrophic. There comes a time when a clear head is needed, being blinded by the wrongs and taking the country into a place that could see even more loss of land and life without having the ability to stop it is pure foolishness. It is interesting that you have said forced unjust peace on Ukraine, that isn't the outcome, that is emotional thinking. The end of the war will bring a stop to the land grab and killing, that is not rewarding Russia! It will allow Ukraine to regroup, rebuild and put in place measures to never let this happen again. That is the key to progress in my opinion, the strategic years ahead that reinforce the borders preventing Russia from repeating the same thing for a 3rd time. Europe and NATO, need to stand up for who they are and not keep stepping into the shadows to avoid Russian aggression Oh! I do love children's stories "And they all lived happily ever after". Sadly that is not true. Trump's long standing support for Russia is not a figment of anyone's imagination, it exists. Trump aligns with Putin. He wants to run the USA like Russia. To take land by military force like Russia. To keep that land without fear of real reprisals, just like Russia does. If we let Putin off with a land grab now he WILL return in a year or so, before Trump leaves office, but after Trump has withdrawn from NATO. Well before the European nations have sized up their armed forces to cover the USAs departure. Then it is good bye Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, Moldova, Romania etc. Trump says - "Mr Putin says those countries and NATO were presenting a threat and he is just protecting his country. I believe Mr Putin". You say you don't like children's stories
I said I do.
Believing Putin and Trump will leave the rest of Ukraine and all its rare earth minerals alone in the future is madness. Russia must be kept out by force. "If I go to your comment "If we let Putin off with a land grab now he WILL return in a year or so, before Trump leaves office, but after Trump has withdrawn from NATO". What do you mean by let him off now? Who is going to stop him keeping the land he has? | |||
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"This was always the likely outcome, with or without Trump. The alternative is more needless deaths and an increased risk of a wider European conflict. The reality is simple: Ukraine cannot join NATO because NATO’s own rules prevent countries with ongoing territorial disputes from joining. Russia holds that card. The U.S. is not going to pour endless billions into a war with no path to outright victory. It makes sense to stop now and avoid further loss of life. Trump holds that card. Ukraine can continue fighting, but with no US support, they are unlikely to regain lost territory and will probably lose more. Alternatively, they can call a ceasefire and begin negotiations. They should expect nothing in terms, but at least the war would end. Zelensky holds that card. What is the alternative? The alternative is to stand firm and resist, like Britain did in 1940. If Ukraine was going to give up it would have done so in 2022. They didn't and they won't now. Trying to force an unjust peace in Ukraine is simply a recipe for an unstable Europe. Ukraine is losing land and people with all the support they had, taking away 42% of that support is going to be catastrophic. There comes a time when a clear head is needed, being blinded by the wrongs and taking the country into a place that could see even more loss of land and life without having the ability to stop it is pure foolishness. It is interesting that you have said forced unjust peace on Ukraine, that isn't the outcome, that is emotional thinking. The end of the war will bring a stop to the land grab and killing, that is not rewarding Russia! It will allow Ukraine to regroup, rebuild and put in place measures to never let this happen again. That is the key to progress in my opinion, the strategic years ahead that reinforce the borders preventing Russia from repeating the same thing for a 3rd time. Europe and NATO, need to stand up for who they are and not keep stepping into the shadows to avoid Russian aggression Oh! I do love children's stories "And they all lived happily ever after". Sadly that is not true. Trump's long standing support for Russia is not a figment of anyone's imagination, it exists. Trump aligns with Putin. He wants to run the USA like Russia. To take land by military force like Russia. To keep that land without fear of real reprisals, just like Russia does. If we let Putin off with a land grab now he WILL return in a year or so, before Trump leaves office, but after Trump has withdrawn from NATO. Well before the European nations have sized up their armed forces to cover the USAs departure. Then it is good bye Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, Moldova, Romania etc. Trump says - "Mr Putin says those countries and NATO were presenting a threat and he is just protecting his country. I believe Mr Putin". You say you don't like children's stories
Putin has launched 3x invasions since 2008; what makes you think he will pause after this settlement?
Russians have already stated they will not accept NATO troops to be present in Ukraine...does that mean non-NATO troops/UN peacekeepers are needed in Ukraine?
Trump has shown he cannot be trusted; I don't think this is 4D chess he is playing
"I have suggested a solution in the reply you commented on. The Europeans, hold the key to the defence of Europe and there is no way they are in any position to do that right now so must step up after this war stops. I have also suggested Ukraine forms an Eastern European Alliance with Poland, Baltics and Finland. This would cover the border and Putin would never be so stupid to take on that alliance, he would lose. | |||
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" The Europeans, hold the key to the defence of Europe and there is no way they are in any position to do that right now so must step up after this war stops. I have also suggested Ukraine forms an Eastern European Alliance with Poland, Baltics and Finland. This would cover the border and Putin would never be so stupid to take on that alliance, he would lose." Europe has failed Ukraine miserably. Has there been any comment from the other east european countries because they will be next, no USA support for Ukraine or them leaves it open for Putin | |||
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" The Europeans, hold the key to the defence of Europe and there is no way they are in any position to do that right now so must step up after this war stops. I have also suggested Ukraine forms an Eastern European Alliance with Poland, Baltics and Finland. This would cover the border and Putin would never be so stupid to take on that alliance, he would lose. Europe has failed Ukraine miserably. Has there been any comment from the other east european countries because they will be next, no USA support for Ukraine or them leaves it open for Putin " That would be my negotiation starting point if I was Zelensky. I would ask all the other European countries that have a border with Russia, if they are confident in NATO support should Russia attack them. I would try to forge a non NATO alliance, that made the other bordering countries feel vulnerable if they were not part of. Right now, Putin has what he wants an protected border that he can expand, it needs closing off. | |||
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"This was always the likely outcome, with or without Trump. The alternative is more needless deaths and an increased risk of a wider European conflict. The reality is simple: Ukraine cannot join NATO because NATO’s own rules prevent countries with ongoing territorial disputes from joining. Russia holds that card. The U.S. is not going to pour endless billions into a war with no path to outright victory. It makes sense to stop now and avoid further loss of life. Trump holds that card. Ukraine can continue fighting, but with no US support, they are unlikely to regain lost territory and will probably lose more. Alternatively, they can call a ceasefire and begin negotiations. They should expect nothing in terms, but at least the war would end. Zelensky holds that card. What is the alternative? The alternative is to stand firm and resist, like Britain did in 1940. If Ukraine was going to give up it would have done so in 2022. They didn't and they won't now. Trying to force an unjust peace in Ukraine is simply a recipe for an unstable Europe. Ukraine is losing land and people with all the support they had, taking away 42% of that support is going to be catastrophic. There comes a time when a clear head is needed, being blinded by the wrongs and taking the country into a place that could see even more loss of land and life without having the ability to stop it is pure foolishness. It is interesting that you have said forced unjust peace on Ukraine, that isn't the outcome, that is emotional thinking. The end of the war will bring a stop to the land grab and killing, that is not rewarding Russia! It will allow Ukraine to regroup, rebuild and put in place measures to never let this happen again. That is the key to progress in my opinion, the strategic years ahead that reinforce the borders preventing Russia from repeating the same thing for a 3rd time. Europe and NATO, need to stand up for who they are and not keep stepping into the shadows to avoid Russian aggression Oh! I do love children's stories "And they all lived happily ever after". Sadly that is not true. Trump's long standing support for Russia is not a figment of anyone's imagination, it exists. Trump aligns with Putin. He wants to run the USA like Russia. To take land by military force like Russia. To keep that land without fear of real reprisals, just like Russia does. If we let Putin off with a land grab now he WILL return in a year or so, before Trump leaves office, but after Trump has withdrawn from NATO. Well before the European nations have sized up their armed forces to cover the USAs departure. Then it is good bye Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, Moldova, Romania etc. Trump says - "Mr Putin says those countries and NATO were presenting a threat and he is just protecting his country. I believe Mr Putin". You say you don't like children's stories
I said I do.
Believing Putin and Trump will leave the rest of Ukraine and all its rare earth minerals alone in the future is madness. Russia must be kept out by force.
If I go to your comment "If we let Putin off with a land grab now he WILL return in a year or so, before Trump leaves office, but after Trump has withdrawn from NATO".
What do you mean by let him off now? Who is going to stop him keeping the land he has?
"Trump's stated OPENING position on the negotiations is:- 1. Russia keeps the land they have already taken. 2. Ukraine will need to give more land to get Russia to stop the war. 3. Ukraine cannot join NATO (so they are defenseless in the future) 4. The USA want 50% of all rare earth deposits in Ukraine (Worth far in excess of the support given) yet will provide NO security guarantees. 5. Trump wants to reward Russia by bringing them back into the G7 and lifting all sanctions. 6. Russia will pay no reparations because, according to Trump, Ukraine started the war by not agreeing to give over 20% of their country when Putin demanded it. It all sounds a bit one sided to me. How does that sound to you? | |||
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"This was always the likely outcome, with or without Trump. The alternative is more needless deaths and an increased risk of a wider European conflict. The reality is simple: Ukraine cannot join NATO because NATO’s own rules prevent countries with ongoing territorial disputes from joining. Russia holds that card. The U.S. is not going to pour endless billions into a war with no path to outright victory. It makes sense to stop now and avoid further loss of life. Trump holds that card. Ukraine can continue fighting, but with no US support, they are unlikely to regain lost territory and will probably lose more. Alternatively, they can call a ceasefire and begin negotiations. They should expect nothing in terms, but at least the war would end. Zelensky holds that card. What is the alternative? The alternative is to stand firm and resist, like Britain did in 1940. If Ukraine was going to give up it would have done so in 2022. They didn't and they won't now. Trying to force an unjust peace in Ukraine is simply a recipe for an unstable Europe. Ukraine is losing land and people with all the support they had, taking away 42% of that support is going to be catastrophic. There comes a time when a clear head is needed, being blinded by the wrongs and taking the country into a place that could see even more loss of land and life without having the ability to stop it is pure foolishness. It is interesting that you have said forced unjust peace on Ukraine, that isn't the outcome, that is emotional thinking. The end of the war will bring a stop to the land grab and killing, that is not rewarding Russia! It will allow Ukraine to regroup, rebuild and put in place measures to never let this happen again. That is the key to progress in my opinion, the strategic years ahead that reinforce the borders preventing Russia from repeating the same thing for a 3rd time. Europe and NATO, need to stand up for who they are and not keep stepping into the shadows to avoid Russian aggression Oh! I do love children's stories "And they all lived happily ever after". Sadly that is not true. Trump's long standing support for Russia is not a figment of anyone's imagination, it exists. Trump aligns with Putin. He wants to run the USA like Russia. To take land by military force like Russia. To keep that land without fear of real reprisals, just like Russia does. If we let Putin off with a land grab now he WILL return in a year or so, before Trump leaves office, but after Trump has withdrawn from NATO. Well before the European nations have sized up their armed forces to cover the USAs departure. Then it is good bye Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, Moldova, Romania etc. Trump says - "Mr Putin says those countries and NATO were presenting a threat and he is just protecting his country. I believe Mr Putin". You say you don't like children's stories
I said I do.
Believing Putin and Trump will leave the rest of Ukraine and all its rare earth minerals alone in the future is madness. Russia must be kept out by force.
If I go to your comment "If we let Putin off with a land grab now he WILL return in a year or so, before Trump leaves office, but after Trump has withdrawn from NATO".
What do you mean by let him off now? Who is going to stop him keeping the land he has?
Trump's stated OPENING position on the negotiations is:-
1. Russia keeps the land they have already taken.
2. Ukraine will need to give more land to get Russia to stop the war.
3. Ukraine cannot join NATO (so they are defenseless in the future)
4. The USA want 50% of all rare earth deposits in Ukraine (Worth far in excess of the support given) yet will provide NO security guarantees.
5. Trump wants to reward Russia by bringing them back into the G7 and lifting all sanctions.
6. Russia will pay no reparations because, according to Trump, Ukraine started the war by not agreeing to give over 20% of their country when Putin demanded it.
It all sounds a bit one sided to me. How does that sound to you? "You didn't answer the question, how and who is the country or countries that will not let him off, and what is the action they will take. We can come back to the list | |||
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"Trump blamed Ukraine for starting the war which is wrong. Putin didn't start the war either. Jo biden and NATO started the war with their bragging about Ukraine joining NATO It must have been those hurty words" Well it's words used by Joe biden to sound tough to American voters and to concern the Kremlin into action | |||
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"This was always the likely outcome, with or without Trump. The alternative is more needless deaths and an increased risk of a wider European conflict. The reality is simple: Ukraine cannot join NATO because NATO’s own rules prevent countries with ongoing territorial disputes from joining. Russia holds that card. The U.S. is not going to pour endless billions into a war with no path to outright victory. It makes sense to stop now and avoid further loss of life. Trump holds that card. Ukraine can continue fighting, but with no US support, they are unlikely to regain lost territory and will probably lose more. Alternatively, they can call a ceasefire and begin negotiations. They should expect nothing in terms, but at least the war would end. Zelensky holds that card. What is the alternative? The alternative is to stand firm and resist, like Britain did in 1940. If Ukraine was going to give up it would have done so in 2022. They didn't and they won't now. Trying to force an unjust peace in Ukraine is simply a recipe for an unstable Europe. Ukraine is losing land and people with all the support they had, taking away 42% of that support is going to be catastrophic. There comes a time when a clear head is needed, being blinded by the wrongs and taking the country into a place that could see even more loss of land and life without having the ability to stop it is pure foolishness. It is interesting that you have said forced unjust peace on Ukraine, that isn't the outcome, that is emotional thinking. The end of the war will bring a stop to the land grab and killing, that is not rewarding Russia! It will allow Ukraine to regroup, rebuild and put in place measures to never let this happen again. That is the key to progress in my opinion, the strategic years ahead that reinforce the borders preventing Russia from repeating the same thing for a 3rd time. Europe and NATO, need to stand up for who they are and not keep stepping into the shadows to avoid Russian aggression Oh! I do love children's stories "And they all lived happily ever after". Sadly that is not true. Trump's long standing support for Russia is not a figment of anyone's imagination, it exists. Trump aligns with Putin. He wants to run the USA like Russia. To take land by military force like Russia. To keep that land without fear of real reprisals, just like Russia does. If we let Putin off with a land grab now he WILL return in a year or so, before Trump leaves office, but after Trump has withdrawn from NATO. Well before the European nations have sized up their armed forces to cover the USAs departure. Then it is good bye Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, Moldova, Romania etc. Trump says - "Mr Putin says those countries and NATO were presenting a threat and he is just protecting his country. I believe Mr Putin". You say you don't like children's stories
I said I do.
Believing Putin and Trump will leave the rest of Ukraine and all its rare earth minerals alone in the future is madness. Russia must be kept out by force.
If I go to your comment "If we let Putin off with a land grab now he WILL return in a year or so, before Trump leaves office, but after Trump has withdrawn from NATO".
What do you mean by let him off now? Who is going to stop him keeping the land he has?
Trump's stated OPENING position on the negotiations is:-
1. Russia keeps the land they have already taken.
2. Ukraine will need to give more land to get Russia to stop the war.
3. Ukraine cannot join NATO (so they are defenseless in the future)
4. The USA want 50% of all rare earth deposits in Ukraine (Worth far in excess of the support given) yet will provide NO security guarantees.
5. Trump wants to reward Russia by bringing them back into the G7 and lifting all sanctions.
6. Russia will pay no reparations because, according to Trump, Ukraine started the war by not agreeing to give over 20% of their country when Putin demanded it.
It all sounds a bit one sided to me. How does that sound to you?
You didn't answer the question, how and who is the country or countries that will not let him off, and what is the action they will take.
We can come back to the list "The European countries. The rump of NATO without the USA if you want it that way. Combined there is easily enough of them to defeat Russia. Appeasement and hiding behind the untrustworthy promises of the USA is no longer an option. | |||
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"This was always the likely outcome, with or without Trump. The alternative is more needless deaths and an increased risk of a wider European conflict. The reality is simple: Ukraine cannot join NATO because NATO’s own rules prevent countries with ongoing territorial disputes from joining. Russia holds that card. The U.S. is not going to pour endless billions into a war with no path to outright victory. It makes sense to stop now and avoid further loss of life. Trump holds that card. Ukraine can continue fighting, but with no US support, they are unlikely to regain lost territory and will probably lose more. Alternatively, they can call a ceasefire and begin negotiations. They should expect nothing in terms, but at least the war would end. Zelensky holds that card. What is the alternative? The alternative is to stand firm and resist, like Britain did in 1940. If Ukraine was going to give up it would have done so in 2022. They didn't and they won't now. Trying to force an unjust peace in Ukraine is simply a recipe for an unstable Europe. Ukraine is losing land and people with all the support they had, taking away 42% of that support is going to be catastrophic. There comes a time when a clear head is needed, being blinded by the wrongs and taking the country into a place that could see even more loss of land and life without having the ability to stop it is pure foolishness. It is interesting that you have said forced unjust peace on Ukraine, that isn't the outcome, that is emotional thinking. The end of the war will bring a stop to the land grab and killing, that is not rewarding Russia! It will allow Ukraine to regroup, rebuild and put in place measures to never let this happen again. That is the key to progress in my opinion, the strategic years ahead that reinforce the borders preventing Russia from repeating the same thing for a 3rd time. Europe and NATO, need to stand up for who they are and not keep stepping into the shadows to avoid Russian aggression Oh! I do love children's stories "And they all lived happily ever after". Sadly that is not true. Trump's long standing support for Russia is not a figment of anyone's imagination, it exists. Trump aligns with Putin. He wants to run the USA like Russia. To take land by military force like Russia. To keep that land without fear of real reprisals, just like Russia does. If we let Putin off with a land grab now he WILL return in a year or so, before Trump leaves office, but after Trump has withdrawn from NATO. Well before the European nations have sized up their armed forces to cover the USAs departure. Then it is good bye Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, Moldova, Romania etc. Trump says - "Mr Putin says those countries and NATO were presenting a threat and he is just protecting his country. I believe Mr Putin". You say you don't like children's stories
I said I do.
Believing Putin and Trump will leave the rest of Ukraine and all its rare earth minerals alone in the future is madness. Russia must be kept out by force.
If I go to your comment "If we let Putin off with a land grab now he WILL return in a year or so, before Trump leaves office, but after Trump has withdrawn from NATO".
What do you mean by let him off now? Who is going to stop him keeping the land he has?
Trump's stated OPENING position on the negotiations is:-
1. Russia keeps the land they have already taken.
2. Ukraine will need to give more land to get Russia to stop the war.
3. Ukraine cannot join NATO (so they are defenseless in the future)
4. The USA want 50% of all rare earth deposits in Ukraine (Worth far in excess of the support given) yet will provide NO security guarantees.
5. Trump wants to reward Russia by bringing them back into the G7 and lifting all sanctions.
6. Russia will pay no reparations because, according to Trump, Ukraine started the war by not agreeing to give over 20% of their country when Putin demanded it.
It all sounds a bit one sided to me. How does that sound to you?
You didn't answer the question, how and who is the country or countries that will not let him off, and what is the action they will take.
We can come back to the list
The European countries. The rump of NATO without the USA if you want it that way.
Combined there is easily enough of them to defeat Russia. Appeasement and hiding behind the untrustworthy promises of the USA is no longer an option. "With is in mind should there be a new alliance, or just get the USA out of NATO. Also just herd on radio 2 Biden USA did give enough support to push in to the summer, so with a week Russia is it time for all of Europe to double down and have a big all in push. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This was always the likely outcome, with or without Trump. The alternative is more needless deaths and an increased risk of a wider European conflict. The reality is simple: Ukraine cannot join NATO because NATO’s own rules prevent countries with ongoing territorial disputes from joining. Russia holds that card. The U.S. is not going to pour endless billions into a war with no path to outright victory. It makes sense to stop now and avoid further loss of life. Trump holds that card. Ukraine can continue fighting, but with no US support, they are unlikely to regain lost territory and will probably lose more. Alternatively, they can call a ceasefire and begin negotiations. They should expect nothing in terms, but at least the war would end. Zelensky holds that card. What is the alternative? The alternative is to stand firm and resist, like Britain did in 1940. If Ukraine was going to give up it would have done so in 2022. They didn't and they won't now. Trying to force an unjust peace in Ukraine is simply a recipe for an unstable Europe. Ukraine is losing land and people with all the support they had, taking away 42% of that support is going to be catastrophic. There comes a time when a clear head is needed, being blinded by the wrongs and taking the country into a place that could see even more loss of land and life without having the ability to stop it is pure foolishness. It is interesting that you have said forced unjust peace on Ukraine, that isn't the outcome, that is emotional thinking. The end of the war will bring a stop to the land grab and killing, that is not rewarding Russia! It will allow Ukraine to regroup, rebuild and put in place measures to never let this happen again. That is the key to progress in my opinion, the strategic years ahead that reinforce the borders preventing Russia from repeating the same thing for a 3rd time. Europe and NATO, need to stand up for who they are and not keep stepping into the shadows to avoid Russian aggression Oh! I do love children's stories "And they all lived happily ever after". Sadly that is not true. Trump's long standing support for Russia is not a figment of anyone's imagination, it exists. Trump aligns with Putin. He wants to run the USA like Russia. To take land by military force like Russia. To keep that land without fear of real reprisals, just like Russia does. If we let Putin off with a land grab now he WILL return in a year or so, before Trump leaves office, but after Trump has withdrawn from NATO. Well before the European nations have sized up their armed forces to cover the USAs departure. Then it is good bye Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, Moldova, Romania etc. Trump says - "Mr Putin says those countries and NATO were presenting a threat and he is just protecting his country. I believe Mr Putin". You say you don't like children's stories
I said I do.
Believing Putin and Trump will leave the rest of Ukraine and all its rare earth minerals alone in the future is madness. Russia must be kept out by force.
If I go to your comment "If we let Putin off with a land grab now he WILL return in a year or so, before Trump leaves office, but after Trump has withdrawn from NATO".
What do you mean by let him off now? Who is going to stop him keeping the land he has?
Trump's stated OPENING position on the negotiations is:-
1. Russia keeps the land they have already taken.
2. Ukraine will need to give more land to get Russia to stop the war.
3. Ukraine cannot join NATO (so they are defenseless in the future)
4. The USA want 50% of all rare earth deposits in Ukraine (Worth far in excess of the support given) yet will provide NO security guarantees.
5. Trump wants to reward Russia by bringing them back into the G7 and lifting all sanctions.
6. Russia will pay no reparations because, according to Trump, Ukraine started the war by not agreeing to give over 20% of their country when Putin demanded it.
It all sounds a bit one sided to me. How does that sound to you?
You didn't answer the question, how and who is the country or countries that will not let him off, and what is the action they will take.
We can come back to the list
The European countries. The rump of NATO without the USA if you want it that way.
Combined there is easily enough of them to defeat Russia. Appeasement and hiding behind the untrustworthy promises of the USA is no longer an option.
With is in mind should there be a new alliance, or just get the USA out of NATO.
Also just herd on radio 2 Biden USA did give enough support to push in to the summer, so with a week Russia is it time for all of Europe to double down and have a big all in push. "we keep getting told the country is skint so where is this money going to come from? Or is kier lying and really there is plenty of money | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This was always the likely outcome, with or without Trump. The alternative is more needless deaths and an increased risk of a wider European conflict. The reality is simple: Ukraine cannot join NATO because NATO’s own rules prevent countries with ongoing territorial disputes from joining. Russia holds that card. The U.S. is not going to pour endless billions into a war with no path to outright victory. It makes sense to stop now and avoid further loss of life. Trump holds that card. Ukraine can continue fighting, but with no US support, they are unlikely to regain lost territory and will probably lose more. Alternatively, they can call a ceasefire and begin negotiations. They should expect nothing in terms, but at least the war would end. Zelensky holds that card. What is the alternative? The alternative is to stand firm and resist, like Britain did in 1940. If Ukraine was going to give up it would have done so in 2022. They didn't and they won't now. Trying to force an unjust peace in Ukraine is simply a recipe for an unstable Europe. Ukraine is losing land and people with all the support they had, taking away 42% of that support is going to be catastrophic. There comes a time when a clear head is needed, being blinded by the wrongs and taking the country into a place that could see even more loss of land and life without having the ability to stop it is pure foolishness. It is interesting that you have said forced unjust peace on Ukraine, that isn't the outcome, that is emotional thinking. The end of the war will bring a stop to the land grab and killing, that is not rewarding Russia! It will allow Ukraine to regroup, rebuild and put in place measures to never let this happen again. That is the key to progress in my opinion, the strategic years ahead that reinforce the borders preventing Russia from repeating the same thing for a 3rd time. Europe and NATO, need to stand up for who they are and not keep stepping into the shadows to avoid Russian aggression Oh! I do love children's stories "And they all lived happily ever after". Sadly that is not true. Trump's long standing support for Russia is not a figment of anyone's imagination, it exists. Trump aligns with Putin. He wants to run the USA like Russia. To take land by military force like Russia. To keep that land without fear of real reprisals, just like Russia does. If we let Putin off with a land grab now he WILL return in a year or so, before Trump leaves office, but after Trump has withdrawn from NATO. Well before the European nations have sized up their armed forces to cover the USAs departure. Then it is good bye Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, Moldova, Romania etc. Trump says - "Mr Putin says those countries and NATO were presenting a threat and he is just protecting his country. I believe Mr Putin". You say you don't like children's stories
Putin has launched 3x invasions since 2008; what makes you think he will pause after this settlement?
Russians have already stated they will not accept NATO troops to be present in Ukraine...does that mean non-NATO troops/UN peacekeepers are needed in Ukraine?
Trump has shown he cannot be trusted; I don't think this is 4D chess he is playing
I have suggested a solution in the reply you commented on.
The Europeans, hold the key to the defence of Europe and there is no way they are in any position to do that right now so must step up after this war stops.
I have also suggested Ukraine forms an Eastern European Alliance with Poland, Baltics and Finland. This would cover the border and Putin would never be so stupid to take on that alliance, he would lose."The earliest the rest of Europe can match US defense in Europe is 4 to 5 years away, & that is will current political climate; Germany are looking likely to elect a Ukraine agnostic government this weekend. Trump/USA have ruled out: - NATO membership of Ukraine - US assistance to Ukraine Trump will probably insist that no NATO troops in Ukraine, copying the ask from Putin; he has destroyed Ukrainian (& I would say European) trust in him/USA with his recent comments. So expecting a grand European alliance to replace USA support is not realistic IMO, especially in the next few years. That might even encourage Russia more, as they know if they don't push now, then Europe's defense will resist them Without US support, Europe is stuck. Only possible 'quick' solution I see if domestic Russian policy removing Putin which is for the birds. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This was always the likely outcome, with or without Trump. The alternative is more needless deaths and an increased risk of a wider European conflict. The reality is simple: Ukraine cannot join NATO because NATO’s own rules prevent countries with ongoing territorial disputes from joining. Russia holds that card. The U.S. is not going to pour endless billions into a war with no path to outright victory. It makes sense to stop now and avoid further loss of life. Trump holds that card. Ukraine can continue fighting, but with no US support, they are unlikely to regain lost territory and will probably lose more. Alternatively, they can call a ceasefire and begin negotiations. They should expect nothing in terms, but at least the war would end. Zelensky holds that card. What is the alternative? The alternative is to stand firm and resist, like Britain did in 1940. If Ukraine was going to give up it would have done so in 2022. They didn't and they won't now. Trying to force an unjust peace in Ukraine is simply a recipe for an unstable Europe. Ukraine is losing land and people with all the support they had, taking away 42% of that support is going to be catastrophic. There comes a time when a clear head is needed, being blinded by the wrongs and taking the country into a place that could see even more loss of land and life without having the ability to stop it is pure foolishness. It is interesting that you have said forced unjust peace on Ukraine, that isn't the outcome, that is emotional thinking. The end of the war will bring a stop to the land grab and killing, that is not rewarding Russia! It will allow Ukraine to regroup, rebuild and put in place measures to never let this happen again. That is the key to progress in my opinion, the strategic years ahead that reinforce the borders preventing Russia from repeating the same thing for a 3rd time. Europe and NATO, need to stand up for who they are and not keep stepping into the shadows to avoid Russian aggression Oh! I do love children's stories "And they all lived happily ever after". Sadly that is not true. Trump's long standing support for Russia is not a figment of anyone's imagination, it exists. Trump aligns with Putin. He wants to run the USA like Russia. To take land by military force like Russia. To keep that land without fear of real reprisals, just like Russia does. If we let Putin off with a land grab now he WILL return in a year or so, before Trump leaves office, but after Trump has withdrawn from NATO. Well before the European nations have sized up their armed forces to cover the USAs departure. Then it is good bye Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, Moldova, Romania etc. Trump says - "Mr Putin says those countries and NATO were presenting a threat and he is just protecting his country. I believe Mr Putin". You say you don't like children's stories
I said I do.
Believing Putin and Trump will leave the rest of Ukraine and all its rare earth minerals alone in the future is madness. Russia must be kept out by force.
If I go to your comment "If we let Putin off with a land grab now he WILL return in a year or so, before Trump leaves office, but after Trump has withdrawn from NATO".
What do you mean by let him off now? Who is going to stop him keeping the land he has?
Trump's stated OPENING position on the negotiations is:-
1. Russia keeps the land they have already taken.
2. Ukraine will need to give more land to get Russia to stop the war.
3. Ukraine cannot join NATO (so they are defenseless in the future)
4. The USA want 50% of all rare earth deposits in Ukraine (Worth far in excess of the support given) yet will provide NO security guarantees.
5. Trump wants to reward Russia by bringing them back into the G7 and lifting all sanctions.
6. Russia will pay no reparations because, according to Trump, Ukraine started the war by not agreeing to give over 20% of their country when Putin demanded it.
It all sounds a bit one sided to me. How does that sound to you?
You didn't answer the question, how and who is the country or countries that will not let him off, and what is the action they will take.
We can come back to the list
The European countries. The rump of NATO without the USA if you want it that way.
Combined there is easily enough of them to defeat Russia. Appeasement and hiding behind the untrustworthy promises of the USA is no longer an option.
With is in mind should there be a new alliance, or just get the USA out of NATO.
Also just herd on radio 2 Biden USA did give enough support to push in to the summer, so with a week Russia is it time for all of Europe to double down and have a big all in push. we keep getting told the country is skint so where is this money going to come from? Or is kier lying and really there is plenty of money"Don't know where the mony would come from, But if Europe can't help now Russia will in time be back bigger, stronger and will I fear go further. And with USA supply's on the ground if that is the case surely its almost now or never. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This was always the likely outcome, with or without Trump. The alternative is more needless deaths and an increased risk of a wider European conflict. The reality is simple: Ukraine cannot join NATO because NATO’s own rules prevent countries with ongoing territorial disputes from joining. Russia holds that card. The U.S. is not going to pour endless billions into a war with no path to outright victory. It makes sense to stop now and avoid further loss of life. Trump holds that card. Ukraine can continue fighting, but with no US support, they are unlikely to regain lost territory and will probably lose more. Alternatively, they can call a ceasefire and begin negotiations. They should expect nothing in terms, but at least the war would end. Zelensky holds that card. What is the alternative? The alternative is to stand firm and resist, like Britain did in 1940. If Ukraine was going to give up it would have done so in 2022. They didn't and they won't now. Trying to force an unjust peace in Ukraine is simply a recipe for an unstable Europe. Ukraine is losing land and people with all the support they had, taking away 42% of that support is going to be catastrophic. There comes a time when a clear head is needed, being blinded by the wrongs and taking the country into a place that could see even more loss of land and life without having the ability to stop it is pure foolishness. It is interesting that you have said forced unjust peace on Ukraine, that isn't the outcome, that is emotional thinking. The end of the war will bring a stop to the land grab and killing, that is not rewarding Russia! It will allow Ukraine to regroup, rebuild and put in place measures to never let this happen again. That is the key to progress in my opinion, the strategic years ahead that reinforce the borders preventing Russia from repeating the same thing for a 3rd time. Europe and NATO, need to stand up for who they are and not keep stepping into the shadows to avoid Russian aggression Oh! I do love children's stories "And they all lived happily ever after". Sadly that is not true. Trump's long standing support for Russia is not a figment of anyone's imagination, it exists. Trump aligns with Putin. He wants to run the USA like Russia. To take land by military force like Russia. To keep that land without fear of real reprisals, just like Russia does. If we let Putin off with a land grab now he WILL return in a year or so, before Trump leaves office, but after Trump has withdrawn from NATO. Well before the European nations have sized up their armed forces to cover the USAs departure. Then it is good bye Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, Moldova, Romania etc. Trump says - "Mr Putin says those countries and NATO were presenting a threat and he is just protecting his country. I believe Mr Putin". You say you don't like children's stories
Putin has launched 3x invasions since 2008; what makes you think he will pause after this settlement?
Russians have already stated they will not accept NATO troops to be present in Ukraine...does that mean non-NATO troops/UN peacekeepers are needed in Ukraine?
Trump has shown he cannot be trusted; I don't think this is 4D chess he is playing
I have suggested a solution in the reply you commented on.
The Europeans, hold the key to the defence of Europe and there is no way they are in any position to do that right now so must step up after this war stops.
I have also suggested Ukraine forms an Eastern European Alliance with Poland, Baltics and Finland. This would cover the border and Putin would never be so stupid to take on that alliance, he would lose.
The earliest the rest of Europe can match US defense in Europe is 4 to 5 years away, & that is will current political climate; Germany are looking likely to elect a Ukraine agnostic government this weekend.
Trump/USA have ruled out:
- NATO membership of Ukraine
- US assistance to Ukraine
Trump will probably insist that no NATO troops in Ukraine, copying the ask from Putin; he has destroyed Ukrainian (& I would say European) trust in him/USA with his recent comments.
So expecting a grand European alliance to replace USA support is not realistic IMO, especially in the next few years.
That might even encourage Russia more, as they know if they don't push now, then Europe's defense will resist them
Without US support, Europe is stuck.
Only possible 'quick' solution I see if domestic Russian policy removing Putin which is for the birds.
"So if USA is out and Europe is stuck what is going to stop Russia pushing on in to Ukraine and further in to Europe. As I see it at the moment if Russia want to go into Europe. The USA, as part of NATO would not Help. After all there is the Atlantic between Europe and USA. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This was always the likely outcome, with or without Trump. The alternative is more needless deaths and an increased risk of a wider European conflict. The reality is simple: Ukraine cannot join NATO because NATO’s own rules prevent countries with ongoing territorial disputes from joining. Russia holds that card. The U.S. is not going to pour endless billions into a war with no path to outright victory. It makes sense to stop now and avoid further loss of life. Trump holds that card. Ukraine can continue fighting, but with no US support, they are unlikely to regain lost territory and will probably lose more. Alternatively, they can call a ceasefire and begin negotiations. They should expect nothing in terms, but at least the war would end. Zelensky holds that card. What is the alternative? The alternative is to stand firm and resist, like Britain did in 1940. If Ukraine was going to give up it would have done so in 2022. They didn't and they won't now. Trying to force an unjust peace in Ukraine is simply a recipe for an unstable Europe. Ukraine is losing land and people with all the support they had, taking away 42% of that support is going to be catastrophic. There comes a time when a clear head is needed, being blinded by the wrongs and taking the country into a place that could see even more loss of land and life without having the ability to stop it is pure foolishness. It is interesting that you have said forced unjust peace on Ukraine, that isn't the outcome, that is emotional thinking. The end of the war will bring a stop to the land grab and killing, that is not rewarding Russia! It will allow Ukraine to regroup, rebuild and put in place measures to never let this happen again. That is the key to progress in my opinion, the strategic years ahead that reinforce the borders preventing Russia from repeating the same thing for a 3rd time. Europe and NATO, need to stand up for who they are and not keep stepping into the shadows to avoid Russian aggression Oh! I do love children's stories "And they all lived happily ever after". Sadly that is not true. Trump's long standing support for Russia is not a figment of anyone's imagination, it exists. Trump aligns with Putin. He wants to run the USA like Russia. To take land by military force like Russia. To keep that land without fear of real reprisals, just like Russia does. If we let Putin off with a land grab now he WILL return in a year or so, before Trump leaves office, but after Trump has withdrawn from NATO. Well before the European nations have sized up their armed forces to cover the USAs departure. Then it is good bye Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, Moldova, Romania etc. Trump says - "Mr Putin says those countries and NATO were presenting a threat and he is just protecting his country. I believe Mr Putin". You say you don't like children's stories
Putin has launched 3x invasions since 2008; what makes you think he will pause after this settlement?
Russians have already stated they will not accept NATO troops to be present in Ukraine...does that mean non-NATO troops/UN peacekeepers are needed in Ukraine?
Trump has shown he cannot be trusted; I don't think this is 4D chess he is playing
I have suggested a solution in the reply you commented on.
The Europeans, hold the key to the defence of Europe and there is no way they are in any position to do that right now so must step up after this war stops.
I have also suggested Ukraine forms an Eastern European Alliance with Poland, Baltics and Finland. This would cover the border and Putin would never be so stupid to take on that alliance, he would lose.
The earliest the rest of Europe can match US defense in Europe is 4 to 5 years away, & that is will current political climate; Germany are looking likely to elect a Ukraine agnostic government this weekend.
Trump/USA have ruled out:
- NATO membership of Ukraine
- US assistance to Ukraine
Trump will probably insist that no NATO troops in Ukraine, copying the ask from Putin; he has destroyed Ukrainian (& I would say European) trust in him/USA with his recent comments.
So expecting a grand European alliance to replace USA support is not realistic IMO, especially in the next few years.
That might even encourage Russia more, as they know if they don't push now, then Europe's defense will resist them
Without US support, Europe is stuck.
Only possible 'quick' solution I see if domestic Russian policy removing Putin which is for the birds.
So if USA is out and Europe is stuck what is going to stop Russia pushing on in to Ukraine and further in to Europe.
As I see it at the moment if Russia want to go into Europe. The USA, as part of NATO would not Help. After all there is the Atlantic between Europe and USA."I'll answer your 2nd paragraph first: I believe if Russia attacked a NATO country, Trump wouldn't assist; he is looking for any excuse get out of NATO responsibilities, so would make up some excuse like "that country hasn't spent enough on NATO" Your first point: Unless Europe suddenly begins rearming, & has is committed to supporting Ukraine, providing maybe  50% of the support the US has been giving, within the next 2 years, that might put off Putin...but US support hasn't just been hardware; it's been satellite intelligence, logistics support, wargaming, coordinating intel, all areas which Europe are weak on (as USA provided that support in the past)...so I think we are in the hands of the gods unfortunately | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This was always the likely outcome, with or without Trump. The alternative is more needless deaths and an increased risk of a wider European conflict. The reality is simple: Ukraine cannot join NATO because NATO’s own rules prevent countries with ongoing territorial disputes from joining. Russia holds that card. The U.S. is not going to pour endless billions into a war with no path to outright victory. It makes sense to stop now and avoid further loss of life. Trump holds that card. Ukraine can continue fighting, but with no US support, they are unlikely to regain lost territory and will probably lose more. Alternatively, they can call a ceasefire and begin negotiations. They should expect nothing in terms, but at least the war would end. Zelensky holds that card. What is the alternative? The alternative is to stand firm and resist, like Britain did in 1940. If Ukraine was going to give up it would have done so in 2022. They didn't and they won't now. Trying to force an unjust peace in Ukraine is simply a recipe for an unstable Europe. Ukraine is losing land and people with all the support they had, taking away 42% of that support is going to be catastrophic. There comes a time when a clear head is needed, being blinded by the wrongs and taking the country into a place that could see even more loss of land and life without having the ability to stop it is pure foolishness. It is interesting that you have said forced unjust peace on Ukraine, that isn't the outcome, that is emotional thinking. The end of the war will bring a stop to the land grab and killing, that is not rewarding Russia! It will allow Ukraine to regroup, rebuild and put in place measures to never let this happen again. That is the key to progress in my opinion, the strategic years ahead that reinforce the borders preventing Russia from repeating the same thing for a 3rd time. Europe and NATO, need to stand up for who they are and not keep stepping into the shadows to avoid Russian aggression Oh! I do love children's stories "And they all lived happily ever after". Sadly that is not true. Trump's long standing support for Russia is not a figment of anyone's imagination, it exists. Trump aligns with Putin. He wants to run the USA like Russia. To take land by military force like Russia. To keep that land without fear of real reprisals, just like Russia does. If we let Putin off with a land grab now he WILL return in a year or so, before Trump leaves office, but after Trump has withdrawn from NATO. Well before the European nations have sized up their armed forces to cover the USAs departure. Then it is good bye Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, Moldova, Romania etc. Trump says - "Mr Putin says those countries and NATO were presenting a threat and he is just protecting his country. I believe Mr Putin". You say you don't like children's stories
I said I do.
Believing Putin and Trump will leave the rest of Ukraine and all its rare earth minerals alone in the future is madness. Russia must be kept out by force.
If I go to your comment "If we let Putin off with a land grab now he WILL return in a year or so, before Trump leaves office, but after Trump has withdrawn from NATO".
What do you mean by let him off now? Who is going to stop him keeping the land he has?
Trump's stated OPENING position on the negotiations is:-
1. Russia keeps the land they have already taken.
2. Ukraine will need to give more land to get Russia to stop the war.
3. Ukraine cannot join NATO (so they are defenseless in the future)
4. The USA want 50% of all rare earth deposits in Ukraine (Worth far in excess of the support given) yet will provide NO security guarantees.
5. Trump wants to reward Russia by bringing them back into the G7 and lifting all sanctions.
6. Russia will pay no reparations because, according to Trump, Ukraine started the war by not agreeing to give over 20% of their country when Putin demanded it.
It all sounds a bit one sided to me. How does that sound to you?
You didn't answer the question, how and who is the country or countries that will not let him off, and what is the action they will take.
We can come back to the list
The European countries. The rump of NATO without the USA if you want it that way.
Combined there is easily enough of them to defeat Russia. Appeasement and hiding behind the untrustworthy promises of the USA is no longer an option.
With is in mind should there be a new alliance, or just get the USA out of NATO.
Also just herd on radio 2 Biden USA did give enough support to push in to the summer, so with a week Russia is it time for all of Europe to double down and have a big all in push. "A fundamental part of the NATO alliance is Artical 5. The Dir. Gen. of NATO should formally ask the USA if they are still prepared to stand by this undertaking. If the answer no, or they seek to qualify their answer, then their membership should be suspended. There us nothing worse in a defence partnership than a partner country that cosies up to your potential enemy whilst pretending to support its historical allies. The war in Ukraine has shown us one thing. The Russian military is riddled with corruption and an outdated command structure. All that is left to it is to throw bodies at machine guns. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This was always the likely outcome, with or without Trump. The alternative is more needless deaths and an increased risk of a wider European conflict. The reality is simple: Ukraine cannot join NATO because NATO’s own rules prevent countries with ongoing territorial disputes from joining. Russia holds that card. The U.S. is not going to pour endless billions into a war with no path to outright victory. It makes sense to stop now and avoid further loss of life. Trump holds that card. Ukraine can continue fighting, but with no US support, they are unlikely to regain lost territory and will probably lose more. Alternatively, they can call a ceasefire and begin negotiations. They should expect nothing in terms, but at least the war would end. Zelensky holds that card. What is the alternative? The alternative is to stand firm and resist, like Britain did in 1940. If Ukraine was going to give up it would have done so in 2022. They didn't and they won't now. Trying to force an unjust peace in Ukraine is simply a recipe for an unstable Europe. Ukraine is losing land and people with all the support they had, taking away 42% of that support is going to be catastrophic. There comes a time when a clear head is needed, being blinded by the wrongs and taking the country into a place that could see even more loss of land and life without having the ability to stop it is pure foolishness. It is interesting that you have said forced unjust peace on Ukraine, that isn't the outcome, that is emotional thinking. The end of the war will bring a stop to the land grab and killing, that is not rewarding Russia! It will allow Ukraine to regroup, rebuild and put in place measures to never let this happen again. That is the key to progress in my opinion, the strategic years ahead that reinforce the borders preventing Russia from repeating the same thing for a 3rd time. Europe and NATO, need to stand up for who they are and not keep stepping into the shadows to avoid Russian aggression Oh! I do love children's stories "And they all lived happily ever after". Sadly that is not true. Trump's long standing support for Russia is not a figment of anyone's imagination, it exists. Trump aligns with Putin. He wants to run the USA like Russia. To take land by military force like Russia. To keep that land without fear of real reprisals, just like Russia does. If we let Putin off with a land grab now he WILL return in a year or so, before Trump leaves office, but after Trump has withdrawn from NATO. Well before the European nations have sized up their armed forces to cover the USAs departure. Then it is good bye Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, Moldova, Romania etc. Trump says - "Mr Putin says those countries and NATO were presenting a threat and he is just protecting his country. I believe Mr Putin". You say you don't like children's stories
Putin has launched 3x invasions since 2008; what makes you think he will pause after this settlement?
Russians have already stated they will not accept NATO troops to be present in Ukraine...does that mean non-NATO troops/UN peacekeepers are needed in Ukraine?
Trump has shown he cannot be trusted; I don't think this is 4D chess he is playing
I have suggested a solution in the reply you commented on.
The Europeans, hold the key to the defence of Europe and there is no way they are in any position to do that right now so must step up after this war stops.
I have also suggested Ukraine forms an Eastern European Alliance with Poland, Baltics and Finland. This would cover the border and Putin would never be so stupid to take on that alliance, he would lose.
The earliest the rest of Europe can match US defense in Europe is 4 to 5 years away, & that is will current political climate; Germany are looking likely to elect a Ukraine agnostic government this weekend.
Trump/USA have ruled out:
- NATO membership of Ukraine
- US assistance to Ukraine
Trump will probably insist that no NATO troops in Ukraine, copying the ask from Putin; he has destroyed Ukrainian (& I would say European) trust in him/USA with his recent comments.
So expecting a grand European alliance to replace USA support is not realistic IMO, especially in the next few years.
That might even encourage Russia more, as they know if they don't push now, then Europe's defense will resist them
Without US support, Europe is stuck.
Only possible 'quick' solution I see if domestic Russian policy removing Putin which is for the birds.
So if USA is out and Europe is stuck what is going to stop Russia pushing on in to Ukraine and further in to Europe.
As I see it at the moment if Russia want to go into Europe. The USA, as part of NATO would not Help. After all there is the Atlantic between Europe and USA.
I'll answer your 2nd paragraph first:
I believe if Russia attacked a NATO country, Trump wouldn't assist; he is looking for any excuse get out of NATO responsibilities, so would make up some excuse like "that country hasn't spent enough on NATO"
Your first point:
Unless Europe suddenly begins rearming, & has is committed to supporting Ukraine, providing maybe 50% of the support the US has been giving, within the next 2 years, that might put off Putin...but US support hasn't just been hardware; it's been satellite intelligence, logistics support, wargaming, coordinating intel, all areas which Europe are weak on (as USA provided that support in the past)...so I think we are in the hands of the gods unfortunately "UK has and is doing lots of flights out of Romania on tracking Russia. I was thinking more of a big one last push not 2 years but give much more quick it needs to go now so is ready for spring and better ground. The big problem as I see it it easy to defend but attack is a diferant battle. Dug in troops, mines, deterants, traps and all this and still being shot at. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This was always the likely outcome, with or without Trump. The alternative is more needless deaths and an increased risk of a wider European conflict. The reality is simple: Ukraine cannot join NATO because NATO’s own rules prevent countries with ongoing territorial disputes from joining. Russia holds that card. The U.S. is not going to pour endless billions into a war with no path to outright victory. It makes sense to stop now and avoid further loss of life. Trump holds that card. Ukraine can continue fighting, but with no US support, they are unlikely to regain lost territory and will probably lose more. Alternatively, they can call a ceasefire and begin negotiations. They should expect nothing in terms, but at least the war would end. Zelensky holds that card. What is the alternative? The alternative is to stand firm and resist, like Britain did in 1940. If Ukraine was going to give up it would have done so in 2022. They didn't and they won't now. Trying to force an unjust peace in Ukraine is simply a recipe for an unstable Europe. Ukraine is losing land and people with all the support they had, taking away 42% of that support is going to be catastrophic. There comes a time when a clear head is needed, being blinded by the wrongs and taking the country into a place that could see even more loss of land and life without having the ability to stop it is pure foolishness. It is interesting that you have said forced unjust peace on Ukraine, that isn't the outcome, that is emotional thinking. The end of the war will bring a stop to the land grab and killing, that is not rewarding Russia! It will allow Ukraine to regroup, rebuild and put in place measures to never let this happen again. That is the key to progress in my opinion, the strategic years ahead that reinforce the borders preventing Russia from repeating the same thing for a 3rd time. Europe and NATO, need to stand up for who they are and not keep stepping into the shadows to avoid Russian aggression Oh! I do love children's stories "And they all lived happily ever after". Sadly that is not true. Trump's long standing support for Russia is not a figment of anyone's imagination, it exists. Trump aligns with Putin. He wants to run the USA like Russia. To take land by military force like Russia. To keep that land without fear of real reprisals, just like Russia does. If we let Putin off with a land grab now he WILL return in a year or so, before Trump leaves office, but after Trump has withdrawn from NATO. Well before the European nations have sized up their armed forces to cover the USAs departure. Then it is good bye Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, Moldova, Romania etc. Trump says - "Mr Putin says those countries and NATO were presenting a threat and he is just protecting his country. I believe Mr Putin". You say you don't like children's stories
Putin has launched 3x invasions since 2008; what makes you think he will pause after this settlement?
Russians have already stated they will not accept NATO troops to be present in Ukraine...does that mean non-NATO troops/UN peacekeepers are needed in Ukraine?
Trump has shown he cannot be trusted; I don't think this is 4D chess he is playing
I have suggested a solution in the reply you commented on.
The Europeans, hold the key to the defence of Europe and there is no way they are in any position to do that right now so must step up after this war stops.
I have also suggested Ukraine forms an Eastern European Alliance with Poland, Baltics and Finland. This would cover the border and Putin would never be so stupid to take on that alliance, he would lose.
The earliest the rest of Europe can match US defense in Europe is 4 to 5 years away, & that is will current political climate; Germany are looking likely to elect a Ukraine agnostic government this weekend.
Trump/USA have ruled out:
- NATO membership of Ukraine
- US assistance to Ukraine
Trump will probably insist that no NATO troops in Ukraine, copying the ask from Putin; he has destroyed Ukrainian (& I would say European) trust in him/USA with his recent comments.
So expecting a grand European alliance to replace USA support is not realistic IMO, especially in the next few years.
That might even encourage Russia more, as they know if they don't push now, then Europe's defense will resist them
Without US support, Europe is stuck.
Only possible 'quick' solution I see if domestic Russian policy removing Putin which is for the birds.
So if USA is out and Europe is stuck what is going to stop Russia pushing on in to Ukraine and further in to Europe.
As I see it at the moment if Russia want to go into Europe. The USA, as part of NATO would not Help. After all there is the Atlantic between Europe and USA.
I'll answer your 2nd paragraph first:
I believe if Russia attacked a NATO country, Trump wouldn't assist; he is looking for any excuse get out of NATO responsibilities, so would make up some excuse like "that country hasn't spent enough on NATO"
Your first point:
Unless Europe suddenly begins rearming, & has is committed to supporting Ukraine, providing maybe 50% of the support the US has been giving, within the next 2 years, that might put off Putin...but US support hasn't just been hardware; it's been satellite intelligence, logistics support, wargaming, coordinating intel, all areas which Europe are weak on (as USA provided that support in the past)...so I think we are in the hands of the gods unfortunately "you forgot all the cash they have been sending to pay pensions and to pay all the goverment workers also helping them repairing there powergrids | |||
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"This was always the likely outcome, with or without Trump. The alternative is more needless deaths and an increased risk of a wider European conflict. The reality is simple: Ukraine cannot join NATO because NATO’s own rules prevent countries with ongoing territorial disputes from joining. Russia holds that card. The U.S. is not going to pour endless billions into a war with no path to outright victory. It makes sense to stop now and avoid further loss of life. Trump holds that card. Ukraine can continue fighting, but with no US support, they are unlikely to regain lost territory and will probably lose more. Alternatively, they can call a ceasefire and begin negotiations. They should expect nothing in terms, but at least the war would end. Zelensky holds that card. What is the alternative? The alternative is to stand firm and resist, like Britain did in 1940. If Ukraine was going to give up it would have done so in 2022. They didn't and they won't now. Trying to force an unjust peace in Ukraine is simply a recipe for an unstable Europe. Ukraine is losing land and people with all the support they had, taking away 42% of that support is going to be catastrophic. There comes a time when a clear head is needed, being blinded by the wrongs and taking the country into a place that could see even more loss of land and life without having the ability to stop it is pure foolishness. It is interesting that you have said forced unjust peace on Ukraine, that isn't the outcome, that is emotional thinking. The end of the war will bring a stop to the land grab and killing, that is not rewarding Russia! It will allow Ukraine to regroup, rebuild and put in place measures to never let this happen again. That is the key to progress in my opinion, the strategic years ahead that reinforce the borders preventing Russia from repeating the same thing for a 3rd time. Europe and NATO, need to stand up for who they are and not keep stepping into the shadows to avoid Russian aggression Oh! I do love children's stories "And they all lived happily ever after". Sadly that is not true. Trump's long standing support for Russia is not a figment of anyone's imagination, it exists. Trump aligns with Putin. He wants to run the USA like Russia. To take land by military force like Russia. To keep that land without fear of real reprisals, just like Russia does. If we let Putin off with a land grab now he WILL return in a year or so, before Trump leaves office, but after Trump has withdrawn from NATO. Well before the European nations have sized up their armed forces to cover the USAs departure. Then it is good bye Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, Moldova, Romania etc. Trump says - "Mr Putin says those countries and NATO were presenting a threat and he is just protecting his country. I believe Mr Putin". You say you don't like children's stories
Putin has launched 3x invasions since 2008; what makes you think he will pause after this settlement?
Russians have already stated they will not accept NATO troops to be present in Ukraine...does that mean non-NATO troops/UN peacekeepers are needed in Ukraine?
Trump has shown he cannot be trusted; I don't think this is 4D chess he is playing
I have suggested a solution in the reply you commented on.
The Europeans, hold the key to the defence of Europe and there is no way they are in any position to do that right now so must step up after this war stops.
I have also suggested Ukraine forms an Eastern European Alliance with Poland, Baltics and Finland. This would cover the border and Putin would never be so stupid to take on that alliance, he would lose.
The earliest the rest of Europe can match US defense in Europe is 4 to 5 years away, & that is will current political climate; Germany are looking likely to elect a Ukraine agnostic government this weekend.
Trump/USA have ruled out:
- NATO membership of Ukraine
- US assistance to Ukraine
Trump will probably insist that no NATO troops in Ukraine, copying the ask from Putin; he has destroyed Ukrainian (& I would say European) trust in him/USA with his recent comments.
So expecting a grand European alliance to replace USA support is not realistic IMO, especially in the next few years.
That might even encourage Russia more, as they know if they don't push now, then Europe's defense will resist them
Without US support, Europe is stuck.
Only possible 'quick' solution I see if domestic Russian policy removing Putin which is for the birds.
"I still think Ukraine has an option in an eastern European alliance, Poland the Baltics and Finland are more than enough to see off Russia. Central and Western Europe lost their nerve, and I could see them funding uplifts in the alliance defence of the Russian borders. That would remove NATO, who are similar to Europe, indecisive and bogged down in dotting I's and crossing T's. Whatever the way forward is, it must be without the US. | |||
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" The war in Ukraine has shown us one thing. The Russian military is riddled with corruption and an outdated command structure. All that is left to it is to throw bodies at machine guns. " I read a report recently that the vast majority of the fodder for the meat grinder are from the far flung rural small towns and villages. The oligarchs are worried that if the husbands and sons from the "wealthier" families from the more educated university cities etc start getting called up then that is likely to raise to pressure on the regime. That's why they first started using prisoners and then the North Koreans but that can only last so long. | |||
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" The war in Ukraine has shown us one thing. The Russian military is riddled with corruption and an outdated command structure. All that is left to it is to throw bodies at machine guns. I read a report recently that the vast majority of the fodder for the meat grinder are from the far flung rural small towns and villages. The oligarchs are worried that if the husbands and sons from the "wealthier" families from the more educated university cities etc start getting called up then that is likely to raise to pressure on the regime. That's why they first started using prisoners and then the North Koreans but that can only last so long." A few months ago unverified video taken inside and outside Russian nightclubs where young men rounded up for conscription. Turkey shoot for experienced gunners. Russia must be 500k dead and casualties by now | |||
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"This was always the likely outcome, with or without Trump. The alternative is more needless deaths and an increased risk of a wider European conflict. The reality is simple: Ukraine cannot join NATO because NATO’s own rules prevent countries with ongoing territorial disputes from joining. Russia holds that card. The U.S. is not going to pour endless billions into a war with no path to outright victory. It makes sense to stop now and avoid further loss of life. Trump holds that card. Ukraine can continue fighting, but with no US support, they are unlikely to regain lost territory and will probably lose more. Alternatively, they can call a ceasefire and begin negotiations. They should expect nothing in terms, but at least the war would end. Zelensky holds that card. What is the alternative? The alternative is to stand firm and resist, like Britain did in 1940. If Ukraine was going to give up it would have done so in 2022. They didn't and they won't now. Trying to force an unjust peace in Ukraine is simply a recipe for an unstable Europe. Ukraine is losing land and people with all the support they had, taking away 42% of that support is going to be catastrophic. There comes a time when a clear head is needed, being blinded by the wrongs and taking the country into a place that could see even more loss of land and life without having the ability to stop it is pure foolishness. It is interesting that you have said forced unjust peace on Ukraine, that isn't the outcome, that is emotional thinking. The end of the war will bring a stop to the land grab and killing, that is not rewarding Russia! It will allow Ukraine to regroup, rebuild and put in place measures to never let this happen again. That is the key to progress in my opinion, the strategic years ahead that reinforce the borders preventing Russia from repeating the same thing for a 3rd time. Europe and NATO, need to stand up for who they are and not keep stepping into the shadows to avoid Russian aggression Oh! I do love children's stories "And they all lived happily ever after". Sadly that is not true. Trump's long standing support for Russia is not a figment of anyone's imagination, it exists. Trump aligns with Putin. He wants to run the USA like Russia. To take land by military force like Russia. To keep that land without fear of real reprisals, just like Russia does. If we let Putin off with a land grab now he WILL return in a year or so, before Trump leaves office, but after Trump has withdrawn from NATO. Well before the European nations have sized up their armed forces to cover the USAs departure. Then it is good bye Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, Moldova, Romania etc. Trump says - "Mr Putin says those countries and NATO were presenting a threat and he is just protecting his country. I believe Mr Putin". You say you don't like children's stories
Putin has launched 3x invasions since 2008; what makes you think he will pause after this settlement?
Russians have already stated they will not accept NATO troops to be present in Ukraine...does that mean non-NATO troops/UN peacekeepers are needed in Ukraine?
Trump has shown he cannot be trusted; I don't think this is 4D chess he is playing
I have suggested a solution in the reply you commented on.
The Europeans, hold the key to the defence of Europe and there is no way they are in any position to do that right now so must step up after this war stops.
I have also suggested Ukraine forms an Eastern European Alliance with Poland, Baltics and Finland. This would cover the border and Putin would never be so stupid to take on that alliance, he would lose.
The earliest the rest of Europe can match US defense in Europe is 4 to 5 years away, & that is will current political climate; Germany are looking likely to elect a Ukraine agnostic government this weekend.
Trump/USA have ruled out:
- NATO membership of Ukraine
- US assistance to Ukraine
Trump will probably insist that no NATO troops in Ukraine, copying the ask from Putin; he has destroyed Ukrainian (& I would say European) trust in him/USA with his recent comments.
So expecting a grand European alliance to replace USA support is not realistic IMO, especially in the next few years.
That might even encourage Russia more, as they know if they don't push now, then Europe's defense will resist them
Without US support, Europe is stuck.
Only possible 'quick' solution I see if domestic Russian policy removing Putin which is for the birds.
I still think Ukraine has an option in an eastern European alliance, Poland the Baltics and Finland are more than enough to see off Russia. Central and Western Europe lost their nerve, and I could see them funding uplifts in the alliance defence of the Russian borders.
That would remove NATO, who are similar to Europe, indecisive and bogged down in dotting I's and crossing T's.
Whatever the way forward is, it must be without the US."And in my opinion needs to be quick spring will come the ground will warm fighting becomes easier and Russia will be ready to push again. With that using US supply befor they run out. | |||
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"This was always the likely outcome, with or without Trump. The alternative is more needless deaths and an increased risk of a wider European conflict. The reality is simple: Ukraine cannot join NATO because NATO’s own rules prevent countries with ongoing territorial disputes from joining. Russia holds that card. The U.S. is not going to pour endless billions into a war with no path to outright victory. It makes sense to stop now and avoid further loss of life. Trump holds that card. Ukraine can continue fighting, but with no US support, they are unlikely to regain lost territory and will probably lose more. Alternatively, they can call a ceasefire and begin negotiations. They should expect nothing in terms, but at least the war would end. Zelensky holds that card. What is the alternative? The alternative is to stand firm and resist, like Britain did in 1940. If Ukraine was going to give up it would have done so in 2022. They didn't and they won't now. Trying to force an unjust peace in Ukraine is simply a recipe for an unstable Europe. Ukraine is losing land and people with all the support they had, taking away 42% of that support is going to be catastrophic. There comes a time when a clear head is needed, being blinded by the wrongs and taking the country into a place that could see even more loss of land and life without having the ability to stop it is pure foolishness. It is interesting that you have said forced unjust peace on Ukraine, that isn't the outcome, that is emotional thinking. The end of the war will bring a stop to the land grab and killing, that is not rewarding Russia! It will allow Ukraine to regroup, rebuild and put in place measures to never let this happen again. That is the key to progress in my opinion, the strategic years ahead that reinforce the borders preventing Russia from repeating the same thing for a 3rd time. Europe and NATO, need to stand up for who they are and not keep stepping into the shadows to avoid Russian aggression Oh! I do love children's stories "And they all lived happily ever after". Sadly that is not true. Trump's long standing support for Russia is not a figment of anyone's imagination, it exists. Trump aligns with Putin. He wants to run the USA like Russia. To take land by military force like Russia. To keep that land without fear of real reprisals, just like Russia does. If we let Putin off with a land grab now he WILL return in a year or so, before Trump leaves office, but after Trump has withdrawn from NATO. Well before the European nations have sized up their armed forces to cover the USAs departure. Then it is good bye Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, Moldova, Romania etc. Trump says - "Mr Putin says those countries and NATO were presenting a threat and he is just protecting his country. I believe Mr Putin". You say you don't like children's stories
I said I do.
Believing Putin and Trump will leave the rest of Ukraine and all its rare earth minerals alone in the future is madness. Russia must be kept out by force.
If I go to your comment "If we let Putin off with a land grab now he WILL return in a year or so, before Trump leaves office, but after Trump has withdrawn from NATO".
What do you mean by let him off now? Who is going to stop him keeping the land he has?
Trump's stated OPENING position on the negotiations is:-
1. Russia keeps the land they have already taken.
2. Ukraine will need to give more land to get Russia to stop the war.
3. Ukraine cannot join NATO (so they are defenseless in the future)
4. The USA want 50% of all rare earth deposits in Ukraine (Worth far in excess of the support given) yet will provide NO security guarantees.
5. Trump wants to reward Russia by bringing them back into the G7 and lifting all sanctions.
6. Russia will pay no reparations because, according to Trump, Ukraine started the war by not agreeing to give over 20% of their country when Putin demanded it.
It all sounds a bit one sided to me. How does that sound to you?
You didn't answer the question, how and who is the country or countries that will not let him off, and what is the action they will take.
We can come back to the list
The European countries. The rump of NATO without the USA if you want it that way.
Combined there is easily enough of them to defeat Russia. Appeasement and hiding behind the untrustworthy promises of the USA is no longer an option.
With is in mind should there be a new alliance, or just get the USA out of NATO.
Also just herd on radio 2 Biden USA did give enough support to push in to the summer, so with a week Russia is it time for all of Europe to double down and have a big all in push. we keep getting told the country is skint so where is this money going to come from? Or is kier lying and really there is plenty of money"Down the back of the sofa | |||
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"Trump the traitor " But is he UK is 100% of GDP in Debt. USA is 260% of GDP in Debt. Hence the big problem. | |||
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"Trump the traitor " Care to expand on this or is it something you heard someone on Facebook say so you thought you'd repeat it? | |||
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"Trump the traitor But is he UK is 100% of GDP in Debt. USA is 260% of GDP in Debt. Hence the big problem." Russia's government debt to GDP reported 14.9% | |||
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"In this long, long thread I’m not sure if something got corrected. Churchill DID call an election during WW2 in 1945. The war ended first though. Eisenhower called an election in the US 1944. So the argument that it didn’t happen is utterly false. Made up nonsense." From what I read the election was held after Germany surrendered but before Japan had surrendered. At that point the UK was not in danger to hold an election as the bombing had stopped. Totally different to the situation in Ukraine today which is under daily attack | |||
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"That’s precisely the same with Ukraine. Anyone with money has left the country or people with money simply bribe their way out of service or get their employer to declare them some kind of key worker they can’t do without. Endless videos online of Ukrainian recruiters dragging people off the streets. Ukraine army overwhelmingly staffed by old poor people from rural villages. I find it amazing how many Ukrainian people of fighting age have managed to slip abroad as refugees and nobody has sent them back. Not to mention the rich kids living it up in the south of France. Though to be fair most militaries across the world would be staffed by poor kids with few alternative options." Look at some of the high profile people who have been around when military callings were active. Trump had A1 fitness assessments, whilst a student and exempt from Vietnam callups and played college sports. After studies finished, he suddenly had medical exemptions, so wouldn't have needed to go, to serve his country. He's just one example. | |||
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"In this long, long thread I’m not sure if something got corrected. Churchill DID call an election during WW2 in 1945. The war ended first though. Eisenhower called an election in the US 1944. So the argument that it didn’t happen is utterly false. Made up nonsense. From what I read the election was held after Germany surrendered but before Japan had surrendered. At that point the UK was not in danger to hold an election as the bombing had stopped. Totally different to the situation in Ukraine today which is under daily attack" Previous statements on this thread about elections not happening were and are no less inaccurate. | |||
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"In this long, long thread I’m not sure if something got corrected. Churchill DID call an election during WW2 in 1945. The war ended first though. Eisenhower called an election in the US 1944. So the argument that it didn’t happen is utterly false. Made up nonsense. From what I read the election was held after Germany surrendered but before Japan had surrendered. At that point the UK was not in danger to hold an election as the bombing had stopped. Totally different to the situation in Ukraine today which is under daily attack Previous statements on this thread about elections not happening were and are no less inaccurate." I presume facebook did not choose to remember the UK's Prolongation of Parliament Acts of 1940, 1941, 1942, 1943 and 1944, which formally removed the need for an election. After all, Hansard and the Parliamentary Library are just full of fake news. As for Ukraine, when the 120,000 strong Russia's army innocently had difficulty remembering where the border was in 2022, a state of Martial Law was totally unjustifiably declared. This removed the requirement for presidential elections under their constitution. | |||
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"In this long, long thread I’m not sure if something got corrected. Churchill DID call an election during WW2 in 1945. The war ended first though. Eisenhower called an election in the US 1944. So the argument that it didn’t happen is utterly false. Made up nonsense. From what I read the election was held after Germany surrendered but before Japan had surrendered. At that point the UK was not in danger to hold an election as the bombing had stopped. Totally different to the situation in Ukraine today which is under daily attack Previous statements on this thread about elections not happening were and are no less inaccurate." What I posted comes from the BBC not what others have put and is a matter of fact | |||
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"In this long, long thread I’m not sure if something got corrected. Churchill DID call an election during WW2 in 1945. The war ended first though. Eisenhower called an election in the US 1944. So the argument that it didn’t happen is utterly false. Made up nonsense. From what I read the election was held after Germany surrendered but before Japan had surrendered. At that point the UK was not in danger to hold an election as the bombing had stopped. Totally different to the situation in Ukraine today which is under daily attack Previous statements on this thread about elections not happening were and are no less inaccurate." Roosevelt was the President in April 1945 having won the election in Nov 44 on the usual four year cycle, unfortunately he died and Truman the vice president took over. Saying Supreme Allied Commander Eisenhower called an election is utter cods wallop | |||
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"Trump the traitor Care to expand on this or is it something you heard someone on Facebook say so you thought you'd repeat it?" I think it's self explanatory, and an original quote by me. Thank you and good night | |||
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"In this long, long thread I’m not sure if something got corrected. Churchill DID call an election during WW2 in 1945. The war ended first though. Eisenhower called an election in the US 1944. So the argument that it didn’t happen is utterly false. Made up nonsense. From what I read the election was held after Germany surrendered but before Japan had surrendered. At that point the UK was not in danger to hold an election as the bombing had stopped. Totally different to the situation in Ukraine today which is under daily attack Previous statements on this thread about elections not happening were and are no less inaccurate. Roosevelt was the President in April 1945 having won the election in Nov 44 on the usual four year cycle, unfortunately he died and Truman the vice president took over. Saying Supreme Allied Commander Eisenhower called an election is utter cods wallop "Ok, Mia culpa. The Americans held an election during war time though didn’t they? Did you correct anyone who said otherwise? | |||
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"In this long, long thread I’m not sure if something got corrected. Churchill DID call an election during WW2 in 1945. The war ended first though. Eisenhower called an election in the US 1944. So the argument that it didn’t happen is utterly false. Made up nonsense." Britain didn't have an election during the war, that's just fact. Election 1935 and 1945, the one in between was suspended during war. It's on Wiki, you don't need to be a professor to read it. America may have had an election, then again their towns and cities where not getting bombed, therefore logistically they could. Ukraine cannot have a free election, how could the people in the Russian annexed States vote, its just a daft proposal from a daft megalomaniac president of an ever deluded nation. Ps apparently Zelensky still has a higher approval rating that the great orange ego..... | |||
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