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Banning trans gender MtF in ladies football
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I've always found it entirely unfathomable how the whole trans thing ever became a thing the majority had to tolerate, yet alone such a toxic and divisive topic. Anybody else wish for simpler times when we all knew what a man and a woman were? |
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The topic belongs in politics. It brings out far more toxicity than is welcomed in the lounge. There have been several threads moved there that included trans people in sport. If you ever feel like your block list is too empty, head on down to the politics forum 💜 |
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Some people have a lot to say about lives they've never lived, offering opinions about struggles they've never faced and passing judgement on paths they've never walked.
Let's leave this subject alone please. |
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By *2teleMan 5 weeks ago
Stirlingshire |
"The topic belongs in politics. It brings out far more toxicity than is welcomed in the lounge. There have been several threads moved there that included trans people in sport. If you ever feel like your block list is too empty, head on down to the politics forum 💜"
Exactly this |
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It’s 2o kids out of millions of uk amateurs. And the damage to those kids is enormous. Taking away one of the few things they get pleasure from.
And it’s all bullshit. The FA have the power to remove someone that is inappropriate at any time, always have. There are exceptions under the equality act to do so.
And these girls were not winning all the medals and trophies. Far from it.
The uk disgusts me. It’s no longer safe for trans people. Who will employ a trans person when they have to worry which toilet they will use? Answer - no one.
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I agree with the area of sport being just for women, why not have a trans league, not enough participants I suppose.
It doesn't bother me to be honest.
Public areas should have some control, if little Mary goes to the toilet and is faced with big Les coming out of a cubicle adjusting his fishnets it could scare the xxxx out of her, equally the the male loos too.
I tend to use male loos if I'm out n about but extra discreet when kids are about.
It does tend to give away what's going on below the waist when entering and exiting and get the odd funny look but it's water off a ducks back, nothing new to me.
I'm too old to care.
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It's all not thought out properly.
Anyone remember April Ashley, Dana International, Christine Jorgenson Lilly Elbe?
Responsible people will be responsible, unresponsive will not, no matter who they are.
It's one life and no return and no deposit |
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"I've always found it entirely unfathomable how the whole trans thing ever became a thing the majority had to tolerate, yet alone such a toxic and divisive topic. Anybody else wish for simpler times when we all knew what a man and a woman were? "
It really did not become a massive thing. It was just whipped up by right wing media as usual and made to be a thing for those who read that kind of crap, like many things.
Don’t know if you’re old enough to remember or fake EU stories in the newspapers that lead to Brexit. Well the former PM was fired as a journalist for making up those stories. Very similar what’s been happening with trans over the last few year, the style of reporting and proportionality of stories compared to reality |
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"I've always found it entirely unfathomable how the whole trans thing ever became a thing the majority had to tolerate, yet alone such a toxic and divisive topic. Anybody else wish for simpler times when we all knew what a man and a woman were?
It really did not become a massive thing. It was just whipped up by right wing media as usual and made to be a thing for those who read that kind of crap, like many things.
"
You are 100% correct in that the right wing media has latched on to this. If you are being unbiased you would also have to discuss the activities of organisations like Stonewall over the past decade who have been equally vociferous on the other side.
As someone who doesn’t care for either side I think they are both as bad as each other. |
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I heard there are two nets , one at either end and the idea is to kick the fuck out of the ankles of someone in a different coloured t shirt , then welly the ball like shite to get it into a net but get the right net... the one your mates don't get in the way of .... that one. |
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"They won’t stop me from playing in women’s street jenga street championships.  the dam heathens "
You joke, but expect people to be up in arms about how men at birth naturally have a steadier hand than women because of their hormones |
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I have always been of the view "live and let live" but the trans extremists pushed their agenda way too much and got a backlash. Then there are the various sports events, failed men "changing sex" to win against females. Often by a great margin but the worst example was a biological man punching women in the face in the Olympic boxing contests. He really hurt them and the governing bodies allowed it, people die in boxing so they were literally risking the lives of those women. To satisfy an agenda. |
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"I heard there are two nets , one at either end and the idea is to kick the fuck out of the ankles of someone in a different coloured t shirt , then welly the ball like shite to get it into a net but get the right net... the one your mates don't get in the way of .... that one."
And cry like a little girl when you fall over, I mean little person |
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Most of the people with strong views on letting men play in women's sports have never played sports and buy into the misnomer men and women are equal...and have no clue what they're talking about. How this even became a thing I've no idea. 🥪 |
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"They won’t stop me from playing in women’s street jenga street championships. the dam heathens
You joke, but expect people to be up in arms about how men at birth naturally have a steadier hand than women because of their hormones"
Women cannot compete against men in any sport or game, there is no competition where women compete on equal terms with men and win. This is what we call "biological differences", and is why biological men should never compete against women in any sport or game. |
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"They won’t stop me from playing in women’s street jenga street championships. the dam heathens
You joke, but expect people to be up in arms about how men at birth naturally have a steadier hand than women because of their hormones"
It’s ok I have vast crates full of cans of copium to hand out to these peasants |
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"I heard there are two nets , one at either end and the idea is to kick the fuck out of the ankles of someone in a different coloured t shirt , then welly the ball like shite to get it into a net but get the right net... the one your mates don't get in the way of .... that one.
And cry like a little girl when you fall over, I mean little person"
Yes, cry like a little person  only its called a 'dive' not a fall. pfffffft |
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"I have always been of the view "live and let live" but the trans extremists pushed their agenda way too much and got a backlash. Then there are the various sports events, failed men "changing sex" to win against females. Often by a great margin but the worst example was a biological man punching women in the face in the Olympic boxing contests. He really hurt them and the governing bodies allowed it, people die in boxing so they were literally risking the lives of those women. To satisfy an agenda. "
Don't know if you are referring to Imane Khelif of Algeria at the Olympics. She was never a transgender and unfortunately got caught up in this political war regarding this issue.
I think the real people we should be stopping are examples like this. Where people simply self identify.
https://youtu.be/eR4-HybiiRI?si=zAjjVsnwG04_XR2T |
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"I have always been of the view "live and let live" but the trans extremists pushed their agenda way too much and got a backlash. Then there are the various sports events, failed men "changing sex" to win against females. Often by a great margin but the worst example was a biological man punching women in the face in the Olympic boxing contests. He really hurt them and the governing bodies allowed it, people die in boxing so they were literally risking the lives of those women. To satisfy an agenda.
Don't know if you are referring to Imane Khelif of Algeria at the Olympics. She was never a transgender and unfortunately got caught up in this political war regarding this issue."
Assigned female at birth, presumably because of the vagina, and has been a woman her entire life.
But because she's not feminine enough, let's declare war on her 💜 |
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Why are there so many idiots on this site who are cowards? Sending really abusive messages and then blocking. They must be really proud of their pathetic behaviour. Not going to name the most recent idiotic ape,he knows who he is. |
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"Why are there so many idiots on this site who are cowards? Sending really abusive messages and then blocking. They must be really proud of their pathetic behaviour. Not going to name the most recent idiotic ape,he knows who he is."
You shouldn't name them in here (because that's against the rules), but you absolutely should report the messages that they send you. The site doesn't need that sort of people. |
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"I have always been of the view "live and let live" but the trans extremists pushed their agenda way too much and got a backlash. Then there are the various sports events, failed men "changing sex" to win against females. Often by a great margin but the worst example was a biological man punching women in the face in the Olympic boxing contests. He really hurt them and the governing bodies allowed it, people die in boxing so they were literally risking the lives of those women. To satisfy an agenda.
Don't know if you are referring to Imane Khelif of Algeria at the Olympics. She was never a transgender and unfortunately got caught up in this political war regarding this issue.
Assigned female at birth, presumably because of the vagina, and has been a woman her entire life.
But because she's not feminine enough, let's declare war on her 💜"
I think they are one of those very rare cases of intersex where they genuinely don’t fit into either box but also could fit both.
But as they have refused to prove they are “female” despite the fact that it would help them win the compensation they say they want from JK Rowling and Elon Musk who are both billionaires so the payout could be quite substantial, should they be allowed to box against women?
As I say, this individual isn’t the traditional trans issue of men competing in women only events as far as I’m aware but who knows what the truth is? In the 70s and 80s the soviet block countries went to great lengths to win women’s medals with hormone and steroid treatments, and actually entered men if I remember correctly.
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"Has this been done already in the forums? If so my apologies couldn’t find it, a penny for your thought otherwise "
I think it’s simple. Ask yourself why there is a separate women’s category.
For those that don’t know the answer, it’s because there’s physical advantages to being male in just about every sport. Some sports such as boxing even segregate people based on weight as there are risks of serious harm, even death.
It’s not because of what they wear, how they talk, if they have boobs etc, it’s because of a physical advantage being born male. Even in sports when the advantage is not obvious, such as pool, snooker and darts, men have physical advantages.
So as much as I can understand why m2f trans want to play in the women’s category, after all they want to be a woman right? But they should respect that in doing so they are putting biological women at a disadvantage that the women can’t compensate for by taking steroids or testosterone.
It’s all about fairness. That’s the only criteria that matters |
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"I have always been of the view "live and let live" but the trans extremists pushed their agenda way too much and got a backlash. Then there are the various sports events, failed men "changing sex" to win against females. Often by a great margin but the worst example was a biological man punching women in the face in the Olympic boxing contests. He really hurt them and the governing bodies allowed it, people die in boxing so they were literally risking the lives of those women. To satisfy an agenda. "
are you not ashamed of repeating all this bollocks? The boxer you are referring to is a woman. The impact of trans women in sport is hugely exaggerated by bigots who want to make our society less free. Noone gave a shit about,for instance, Rachel McKinnon when she was losing in cycling but god forbid that she should occasionally win a minor race...
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"I have always been of the view "live and let live" but the trans extremists pushed their agenda way too much and got a backlash. Then there are the various sports events, failed men "changing sex" to win against females. Often by a great margin but the worst example was a biological man punching women in the face in the Olympic boxing contests. He really hurt them and the governing bodies allowed it, people die in boxing so they were literally risking the lives of those women. To satisfy an agenda. are you not ashamed of repeating all this bollocks? The boxer you are referring to is a woman. The impact of trans women in sport is hugely exaggerated by bigots who want to make our society less free. Noone gave a shit about,for instance, Rachel McKinnon when she was losing in cycling but god forbid that she should occasionally win a minor race..."
He is a man,proved and indisputable |
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"I think they are one of those very rare cases of intersex where they genuinely don’t fit into either box but also could fit both.
But as they have refused to prove they are “female” despite the fact that it would help them win the compensation they say they want from JK Rowling and Elon Musk who are both billionaires so the payout could be quite substantial, should they be allowed to box against women?
As I say, this individual isn’t the traditional trans issue of men competing in women only events as far as I’m aware but who knows what the truth is? In the 70s and 80s the soviet block countries went to great lengths to win women’s medals with hormone and steroid treatments, and actually entered men if I remember correctly.
"
Why do you think that?
Is it because someone claimed she had XY chromosomes with no proof? The IBA doesn't do chromosome testing.
Is it because they claimed she had high enough testosterone to get a man banned, with no proof? Claiming the results were done by WADA, but did not disqualify for doping and WADA made a statement that they do not do any gender testing? But only claimed this after she beat the undefeated russian champion, not at the the beginning of the competition when the testing was done? Conveniently allowing the undefeated russian to retain her official undefeated streak.
Is it because she's an unfeminine athletic build, like almost all successful female boxers? Is it because she's not pretty enough with black eyes and broken lips and sweat dripping instead of makeup and flowers?
Why do you, personally, think that this woman you've never met, who presented female at birth like every other woman with an F on their birth certificate, should have to prove her femininity on a way that no other boxer is required to?
I've met plenty of sporty or not conventionally attractive women. I've never felt the need to force them into medical testing because they're not girly enough 💜 |
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"I've always found it entirely unfathomable how the whole trans thing ever became a thing the majority had to tolerate, yet alone such a toxic and divisive topic. Anybody else wish for simpler times when we all knew what a man and a woman were?
It really did not become a massive thing. It was just whipped up by right wing media as usual and made to be a thing for those who read that kind of crap, like many things.
Don’t know if you’re old enough to remember or fake EU stories in the newspapers that lead to Brexit. Well the former PM was fired as a journalist for making up those stories. Very similar what’s been happening with trans over the last few year, the style of reporting and proportionality of stories compared to reality"
Extremist bigots from the USA have whipped up hatred and division. The gullible and clueless like to be steered and have their energy wasted and fired against the wrong people, rather than those who use them as their cannon fodder |
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"I have always been of the view "live and let live" but the trans extremists pushed their agenda way too much and got a backlash. Then there are the various sports events, failed men "changing sex" to win against females. Often by a great margin but the worst example was a biological man punching women in the face in the Olympic boxing contests. He really hurt them and the governing bodies allowed it, people die in boxing so they were literally risking the lives of those women. To satisfy an agenda. are you not ashamed of repeating all this bollocks? The boxer you are referring to is a woman. The impact of trans women in sport is hugely exaggerated by bigots who want to make our society less free. Noone gave a shit about,for instance, Rachel McKinnon when she was losing in cycling but god forbid that she should occasionally win a minor race..."
People did care and spoke up against it but were shouted down and worse. Look at what happened to Sharon Davies.
Even Jenner has said it was unfair. But the very vocal minority got their way for a bit
The wind is now blowing in the other direction and they don’t like it.
|
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"I think they are one of those very rare cases of intersex where they genuinely don’t fit into either box but also could fit both.
But as they have refused to prove they are “female” despite the fact that it would help them win the compensation they say they want from JK Rowling and Elon Musk who are both billionaires so the payout could be quite substantial, should they be allowed to box against women?
As I say, this individual isn’t the traditional trans issue of men competing in women only events as far as I’m aware but who knows what the truth is? In the 70s and 80s the soviet block countries went to great lengths to win women’s medals with hormone and steroid treatments, and actually entered men if I remember correctly.
Why do you think that?
Is it because someone claimed she had XY chromosomes with no proof? The IBA doesn't do chromosome testing.
Is it because they claimed she had high enough testosterone to get a man banned, with no proof? Claiming the results were done by WADA, but did not disqualify for doping and WADA made a statement that they do not do any gender testing? But only claimed this after she beat the undefeated russian champion, not at the the beginning of the competition when the testing was done? Conveniently allowing the undefeated russian to retain her official undefeated streak.
Is it because she's an unfeminine athletic build, like almost all successful female boxers? Is it because she's not pretty enough with black eyes and broken lips and sweat dripping instead of makeup and flowers?
Why do you, personally, think that this woman you've never met, who presented female at birth like every other woman with an F on their birth certificate, should have to prove her femininity on a way that no other boxer is required to?
I've met plenty of sporty or not conventionally attractive women. I've never felt the need to force them into medical testing because they're not girly enough 💜"
Were you at the birth? Are you one of the medical staff that were involved?
Because if not, you’re just going by what others have said, yet you’re having a go at other people for doing the same.
Does the test exist? You can’t prove it doesn’t anymore that I have the ability to prove it does. But I can prove you me thing…… the athlete has done nothing to prove the test is not real or accurate. I can only think of one reason why an innocent person would avoid proving they are not lying. |
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"Were you at the birth? Are you one of the medical staff that were involved?
Because if not, you’re just going by what others have said, yet you’re having a go at other people for doing the same.
Does the test exist? You can’t prove it doesn’t anymore that I have the ability to prove it does. But I can prove you me thing…… the athlete has done nothing to prove the test is not real or accurate. I can only think of one reason why an innocent person would avoid proving they are not lying. "
She was assigned female at birth. She has gone through every bit of proof that 99% of women have to prove they're a woman.
The test that says you're not a giraffe doesn't exist either. But I was willing to accept you were correctly identified as human at birth. But if we now need documented medical testing for every strange accusation then I'm afraid your inability to produce a test certificate specifically stating you are not a giraffe means you're deliberately hiding your genealogy for nefarious purposes. It doesn't matter that no one else has to produce the proof for themselves of course.
(If you want to pick on the outlandishness of giraffe just bear in mind that I don't know which half of the couple is speaking, so I couldn't align it to gender, but that's where it should be.) 💜 |
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"Were you at the birth? Are you one of the medical staff that were involved?
Because if not, you’re just going by what others have said, yet you’re having a go at other people for doing the same.
Does the test exist? You can’t prove it doesn’t anymore that I have the ability to prove it does. But I can prove you me thing…… the athlete has done nothing to prove the test is not real or accurate. I can only think of one reason why an innocent person would avoid proving they are not lying.
She was assigned female at birth. She has gone through every bit of proof that 99% of women have to prove they're a woman.
The test that says you're not a giraffe doesn't exist either. But I was willing to accept you were correctly identified as human at birth. But if we now need documented medical testing for every strange accusation then I'm afraid your inability to produce a test certificate specifically stating you are not a giraffe means you're deliberately hiding your genealogy for nefarious purposes. It doesn't matter that no one else has to produce the proof for themselves of course.
(If you want to pick on the outlandishness of giraffe just bear in mind that I don't know which half of the couple is speaking, so I couldn't align it to gender, but that's where it should be.) 💜"
I’ll take that as you weren’t at the birth. Didn’t think so |
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"Were you at the birth? Are you one of the medical staff that were involved?
Because if not, you’re just going by what others have said, yet you’re having a go at other people for doing the same.
Does the test exist? You can’t prove it doesn’t anymore that I have the ability to prove it does. But I can prove you me thing…… the athlete has done nothing to prove the test is not real or accurate. I can only think of one reason why an innocent person would avoid proving they are not lying.
She was assigned female at birth. She has gone through every bit of proof that 99% of women have to prove they're a woman.
The test that says you're not a giraffe doesn't exist either. But I was willing to accept you were correctly identified as human at birth. But if we now need documented medical testing for every strange accusation then I'm afraid your inability to produce a test certificate specifically stating you are not a giraffe means you're deliberately hiding your genealogy for nefarious purposes. It doesn't matter that no one else has to produce the proof for themselves of course.
(If you want to pick on the outlandishness of giraffe just bear in mind that I don't know which half of the couple is speaking, so I couldn't align it to gender, but that's where it should be.) 💜
I’ll take that as you weren’t at the birth. Didn’t think so "
How many professional boxers were you at the birth of? |
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"Were you at the birth? Are you one of the medical staff that were involved?
Because if not, you’re just going by what others have said, yet you’re having a go at other people for doing the same.
Does the test exist? You can’t prove it doesn’t anymore that I have the ability to prove it does. But I can prove you me thing…… the athlete has done nothing to prove the test is not real or accurate. I can only think of one reason why an innocent person would avoid proving they are not lying.
She was assigned female at birth. She has gone through every bit of proof that 99% of women have to prove they're a woman.
The test that says you're not a giraffe doesn't exist either. But I was willing to accept you were correctly identified as human at birth. But if we now need documented medical testing for every strange accusation then I'm afraid your inability to produce a test certificate specifically stating you are not a giraffe means you're deliberately hiding your genealogy for nefarious purposes. It doesn't matter that no one else has to produce the proof for themselves of course.
(If you want to pick on the outlandishness of giraffe just bear in mind that I don't know which half of the couple is speaking, so I couldn't align it to gender, but that's where it should be.) 💜
I’ll take that as you weren’t at the birth. Didn’t think so
How many professional boxers were you at the birth of?"
Is that a question. Cos you’ve not answered any of mine so you must be mentally ill if you think in the light of that I’d answer any of yours |
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"Were you at the birth? Are you one of the medical staff that were involved?
Because if not, you’re just going by what others have said, yet you’re having a go at other people for doing the same.
Does the test exist? You can’t prove it doesn’t anymore that I have the ability to prove it does. But I can prove you me thing…… the athlete has done nothing to prove the test is not real or accurate. I can only think of one reason why an innocent person would avoid proving they are not lying.
She was assigned female at birth. She has gone through every bit of proof that 99% of women have to prove they're a woman.
The test that says you're not a giraffe doesn't exist either. But I was willing to accept you were correctly identified as human at birth. But if we now need documented medical testing for every strange accusation then I'm afraid your inability to produce a test certificate specifically stating you are not a giraffe means you're deliberately hiding your genealogy for nefarious purposes. It doesn't matter that no one else has to produce the proof for themselves of course.
(If you want to pick on the outlandishness of giraffe just bear in mind that I don't know which half of the couple is speaking, so I couldn't align it to gender, but that's where it should be.) 💜
I’ll take that as you weren’t at the birth. Didn’t think so
How many professional boxers were you at the birth of?
Is that a question. Cos you’ve not answered any of mine so you must be mentally ill if you think in the light of that I’d answer any of yours "
Alright. No. I was not present at the birth of her or any other professional sportsperson. Meaning they're all equally questionable in their sex and qualifications to engage in gender specific sports 💜 |
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"Were you at the birth? Are you one of the medical staff that were involved?
Because if not, you’re just going by what others have said, yet you’re having a go at other people for doing the same.
Does the test exist? You can’t prove it doesn’t anymore that I have the ability to prove it does. But I can prove you me thing…… the athlete has done nothing to prove the test is not real or accurate. I can only think of one reason why an innocent person would avoid proving they are not lying.
She was assigned female at birth. She has gone through every bit of proof that 99% of women have to prove they're a woman.
The test that says you're not a giraffe doesn't exist either. But I was willing to accept you were correctly identified as human at birth. But if we now need documented medical testing for every strange accusation then I'm afraid your inability to produce a test certificate specifically stating you are not a giraffe means you're deliberately hiding your genealogy for nefarious purposes. It doesn't matter that no one else has to produce the proof for themselves of course.
(If you want to pick on the outlandishness of giraffe just bear in mind that I don't know which half of the couple is speaking, so I couldn't align it to gender, but that's where it should be.) 💜
I’ll take that as you weren’t at the birth. Didn’t think so
How many professional boxers were you at the birth of?
Is that a question. Cos you’ve not answered any of mine so you must be mentally ill if you think in the light of that I’d answer any of yours
Alright. No. I was not present at the birth of her or any other professional sportsperson. Meaning they're all equally questionable in their sex and qualifications to engage in gender specific sports 💜"
There we go, wasn’t as hard as you thought was it? So you have no more insight as to what the truth may or may not be than anyone else.
And no, I was not at the birth either, or any other professional boxers.
I thought your giraffe analogy was a bit childish but let’s go with it…..
If this was a serious allegation that had the potential to massively affect my life, I’d agree to having a genetic test to prove I’m human. And if it was gonna get me a few million is punitive damages then I’d definitely do it. In fact I’d do it just to to prove you wrong. In fact the only reason I wouldn’t take the test is if I was a giraffe.
I think that same logic can be applied here. He’s a bloke in my opinion. No I can’t prove it but you can’t prove he’s female either |
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"There we go, wasn’t as hard as you thought was it? So you have no more insight as to what the truth may or may not be than anyone else.
And no, I was not at the birth either, or any other professional boxers.
I thought your giraffe analogy was a bit childish but let’s go with it…..
If this was a serious allegation that had the potential to massively affect my life, I’d agree to having a genetic test to prove I’m human. And if it was gonna get me a few million is punitive damages then I’d definitely do it. In fact I’d do it just to to prove you wrong. In fact the only reason I wouldn’t take the test is if I was a giraffe.
I think that same logic can be applied here. He’s a bloke in my opinion. No I can’t prove it but you can’t prove he’s female either "
Cool. So if I publicly declare that every individual sportsman is a woman and all the sportswomen are men then we're all back on equal footing, and all's fair 💜 |
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"There we go, wasn’t as hard as you thought was it? So you have no more insight as to what the truth may or may not be than anyone else.
And no, I was not at the birth either, or any other professional boxers.
I thought your giraffe analogy was a bit childish but let’s go with it…..
If this was a serious allegation that had the potential to massively affect my life, I’d agree to having a genetic test to prove I’m human. And if it was gonna get me a few million is punitive damages then I’d definitely do it. In fact I’d do it just to to prove you wrong. In fact the only reason I wouldn’t take the test is if I was a giraffe.
I think that same logic can be applied here. He’s a bloke in my opinion. No I can’t prove it but you can’t prove he’s female either
Cool. So if I publicly declare that every individual sportsman is a woman and all the sportswomen are men then we're all back on equal footing, and all's fair 💜"
You can declare that, but again it would be a bit supercilious.
This is a potential case of a man beating women up, which is a crime. But using a claim to being female as their defence. An official body has publicly stated that they conducted a test on this individual and the test said they are male.
Answer me this one question…. Does the possibility that what I’ve just might be all true not bother you?
Ok, one more question, how will you feel if it turns out they are male and you were wrong? Is that alone not worth being sure? Not worth them proving what the truth actually is?
If a swimmer is male or female is just a matter of fairness, maybe a privacy issue. This is a potential case of woman beating. I man standing before the world beating the crap out of multiple women and certain sections of society cheering him on and the Olympics giving him a medal for it.
But what’s the worst that can happen if I’m wrong? |
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By *otMe66Man 5 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
It is interesting to see arguments centred around fairness and inclusivity to support men competing in female sports, isn't that an oxymoron?
If we want fairness in competitive sport, surely being in the correct categories is a no brainer. They don't allow feather weight, to box heavy weight for exactly those reasons. |
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"You can declare that, but again it would be a bit supercilious.
This is a potential case of a man beating women up, which is a crime. But using a claim to being female as their defence. An official body has publicly stated that they conducted a test on this individual and the test said they are male.
Answer me this one question…. Does the possibility that what I’ve just might be all true not bother you?
Ok, one more question, how will you feel if it turns out they are male and you were wrong? Is that alone not worth being sure? Not worth them proving what the truth actually is?
If a swimmer is male or female is just a matter of fairness, maybe a privacy issue. This is a potential case of woman beating. I man standing before the world beating the crap out of multiple women and certain sections of society cheering him on and the Olympics giving him a medal for it.
But what’s the worst that can happen if I’m wrong? "
I mean, people beating people up in general is usually a crime, but allowances are made for sport. Frankly I think the whole professional fighting thing is absurd and would happily not have anyone beating up anyone.
Imane Khelif has the same claim to womanhood that every other female boxer has. She was identified female at birth. Almost every other competitor in that event had only that as confirmation, any of them could equally be men.
An official body who's credibility has been called out many times by multiple reputable bodies. Whose claims did not match the evidence they had access to, and the labs that perform their testing clarified that no gender testing took place. |
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"You can declare that, but again it would be a bit supercilious.
This is a potential case of a man beating women up, which is a crime. But using a claim to being female as their defence. An official body has publicly stated that they conducted a test on this individual and the test said they are male.
Answer me this one question…. Does the possibility that what I’ve just might be all true not bother you?
Ok, one more question, how will you feel if it turns out they are male and you were wrong? Is that alone not worth being sure? Not worth them proving what the truth actually is?
If a swimmer is male or female is just a matter of fairness, maybe a privacy issue. This is a potential case of woman beating. I man standing before the world beating the crap out of multiple women and certain sections of society cheering him on and the Olympics giving him a medal for it.
But what’s the worst that can happen if I’m wrong?
I mean, people beating people up in general is usually a crime, but allowances are made for sport. Frankly I think the whole professional fighting thing is absurd and would happily not have anyone beating up anyone.
Imane Khelif has the same claim to womanhood that every other female boxer has. She was identified female at birth. Almost every other competitor in that event had only that as confirmation, any of them could equally be men.
An official body who's credibility has been called out many times by multiple reputable bodies. Whose claims did not match the evidence they had access to, and the labs that perform their testing clarified that no gender testing took place. "
I really don’t know why we bother engaging with you. You’re clearly incapable of answering any question put to you.
Happy fabbing |
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"It is interesting to see arguments centred around fairness and inclusivity to support men competing in female sports, isn't that an oxymoron?
If we want fairness in competitive sport, surely being in the correct categories is a no brainer. They don't allow feather weight, to box heavy weight for exactly those reasons."
How do we as a society go forward and promote and normalise trans persons and trans sports events to get some people interested in them as well to watch and in turn allow these categories to grow / develop b . If no public interest then really it’s all a dead duck in water before it even starts.
Though I think we will see a trans woman in F1 within the next 10 years and I am all for that |
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By *otMe66Man 5 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"It is interesting to see arguments centred around fairness and inclusivity to support men competing in female sports, isn't that an oxymoron?
If we want fairness in competitive sport, surely being in the correct categories is a no brainer. They don't allow feather weight, to box heavy weight for exactly those reasons.
How do we as a society go forward and promote and normalise trans persons and trans sports events to get some people interested in them as well to watch and in turn allow these categories to grow / develop b . If no public interest then really it’s all a dead duck in water before it even starts.
Though I think we will see a trans woman in F1 within the next 10 years and I am all for that "
There are options such as a mixed event or a trans only category.
However, I would expect you might be correct in little public interest especially around highly sponsored sports such as football, but I could see mixed team events in athletics becoming popular. |
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"It is interesting to see arguments centred around fairness and inclusivity to support men competing in female sports, isn't that an oxymoron?
If we want fairness in competitive sport, surely being in the correct categories is a no brainer. They don't allow feather weight, to box heavy weight for exactly those reasons.
How do we as a society go forward and promote and normalise trans persons and trans sports events to get some people interested in them as well to watch and in turn allow these categories to grow / develop b . If no public interest then really it’s all a dead duck in water before it even starts.
Though I think we will see a trans woman in F1 within the next 10 years and I am all for that "
No we won’t. Not enough seats for one and if they were not good enough to get there as a male they are not getting there any other way |
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"It is interesting to see arguments centred around fairness and inclusivity to support men competing in female sports, isn't that an oxymoron?
If we want fairness in competitive sport, surely being in the correct categories is a no brainer. They don't allow feather weight, to box heavy weight for exactly those reasons.
How do we as a society go forward and promote and normalise trans persons and trans sports events to get some people interested in them as well to watch and in turn allow these categories to grow / develop b . If no public interest then really it’s all a dead duck in water before it even starts.
Though I think we will see a trans woman in F1 within the next 10 years and I am all for that "
m
I think F1 (and motor racing in general) is an interesting sport because biological differences are relatively small here and skill levels will dominate. It is one of the few sports that could be open to all and as an F1 fan I would be pleased to see female and trans athletes compete in an open competition if they make the grade.
As to how do you get people watching trans sports in general - I think you need explicit trans categories and people need to compete in them. I am not aware of any substantive effort to create trans sports categories and until effort is pushed there then it won’t be watched. |
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"It is interesting to see arguments centred around fairness and inclusivity to support men competing in female sports, isn't that an oxymoron?
If we want fairness in competitive sport, surely being in the correct categories is a no brainer. They don't allow feather weight, to box heavy weight for exactly those reasons.
How do we as a society go forward and promote and normalise trans persons and trans sports events to get some people interested in them as well to watch and in turn allow these categories to grow / develop b . If no public interest then really it’s all a dead duck in water before it even starts.
Though I think we will see a trans woman in F1 within the next 10 years and I am all for that m
I think F1 (and motor racing in general) is an interesting sport because biological differences are relatively small here and skill levels will dominate. It is one of the few sports that could be open to all and as an F1 fan I would be pleased to see female and trans athletes compete in an open competition if they make the grade.
As to how do you get people watching trans sports in general - I think you need explicit trans categories and people need to compete in them. I am not aware of any substantive effort to create trans sports categories and until effort is pushed there then it won’t be watched."
Formula cars the differences in male and female make a huge difference. A F1 car tries to kill you on every inch of the track and the physical endurance needed to drive one is huge.
Jamie Chadwick has spoken about it. It’s worth watching |
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"It is interesting to see arguments centred around fairness and inclusivity to support men competing in female sports, isn't that an oxymoron?
If we want fairness in competitive sport, surely being in the correct categories is a no brainer. They don't allow feather weight, to box heavy weight for exactly those reasons.
How do we as a society go forward and promote and normalise trans persons and trans sports events to get some people interested in them as well to watch and in turn allow these categories to grow / develop b . If no public interest then really it’s all a dead duck in water before it even starts.
Though I think we will see a trans woman in F1 within the next 10 years and I am all for that m
I think F1 (and motor racing in general) is an interesting sport because biological differences are relatively small here and skill levels will dominate. It is one of the few sports that could be open to all and as an F1 fan I would be pleased to see female and trans athletes compete in an open competition if they make the grade.
As to how do you get people watching trans sports in general - I think you need explicit trans categories and people need to compete in them. I am not aware of any substantive effort to create trans sports categories and until effort is pushed there then it won’t be watched."
Just isn’t the numbers tho is there |
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"It is interesting to see arguments centred around fairness and inclusivity to support men competing in female sports, isn't that an oxymoron?
If we want fairness in competitive sport, surely being in the correct categories is a no brainer. They don't allow feather weight, to box heavy weight for exactly those reasons.
How do we as a society go forward and promote and normalise trans persons and trans sports events to get some people interested in them as well to watch and in turn allow these categories to grow / develop b . If no public interest then really it’s all a dead duck in water before it even starts.
Though I think we will see a trans woman in F1 within the next 10 years and I am all for that m
I think F1 (and motor racing in general) is an interesting sport because biological differences are relatively small here and skill levels will dominate. It is one of the few sports that could be open to all and as an F1 fan I would be pleased to see female and trans athletes compete in an open competition if they make the grade.
As to how do you get people watching trans sports in general - I think you need explicit trans categories and people need to compete in them. I am not aware of any substantive effort to create trans sports categories and until effort is pushed there then it won’t be watched.
Formula cars the differences in male and female make a huge difference. A F1 car tries to kill you on every inch of the track and the physical endurance needed to drive one is huge.
Jamie Chadwick has spoken about it. It’s worth watching"
I don’t disagree with that but the fact is that F1 is relatively unique in top level sport in that it does allow any human to compete regardless of their sex _if_ they are good enough. It is open to male, female and trans drivers already. The fact that it is male dominated (for the reasons you state) does really prove the wider point about the fact that biology matters in most sports and so hence why having categories is important for women. |
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"It is interesting to see arguments centred around fairness and inclusivity to support men competing in female sports, isn't that an oxymoron?
If we want fairness in competitive sport, surely being in the correct categories is a no brainer. They don't allow feather weight, to box heavy weight for exactly those reasons.
How do we as a society go forward and promote and normalise trans persons and trans sports events to get some people interested in them as well to watch and in turn allow these categories to grow / develop b . If no public interest then really it’s all a dead duck in water before it even starts.
Though I think we will see a trans woman in F1 within the next 10 years and I am all for that
No we won’t. Not enough seats for one and if they were not good enough to get there as a male they are not getting there any other way "
Keep up dear we are male now again under the EQ act when it comes to single sex requirements. . so it’s a matter of time until a trans person is good enough through the ranks to get in.
It’s going to come and I can’t wait to see the fucking meltdown from all the dickheads online trying to justify a reason to exclude said person. Ha
|
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"It is interesting to see arguments centred around fairness and inclusivity to support men competing in female sports, isn't that an oxymoron?
If we want fairness in competitive sport, surely being in the correct categories is a no brainer. They don't allow feather weight, to box heavy weight for exactly those reasons.
How do we as a society go forward and promote and normalise trans persons and trans sports events to get some people interested in them as well to watch and in turn allow these categories to grow / develop b . If no public interest then really it’s all a dead duck in water before it even starts.
Though I think we will see a trans woman in F1 within the next 10 years and I am all for that m
I think F1 (and motor racing in general) is an interesting sport because biological differences are relatively small here and skill levels will dominate. It is one of the few sports that could be open to all and as an F1 fan I would be pleased to see female and trans athletes compete in an open competition if they make the grade.
As to how do you get people watching trans sports in general - I think you need explicit trans categories and people need to compete in them. I am not aware of any substantive effort to create trans sports categories and until effort is pushed there then it won’t be watched.
Just isn’t the numbers tho is there "
And part of the numbers problem is the sheer level of vitriol online from msm / political/ rich pricks / mouth pieces that are constant white washing every trans person as a sub human / nonce / pervert … blah blah insert whatever other rubbish trope in ..
Until the government start getting heavy handed with this regarding awful reporting on a minority community it’s no shit people srent interested at all
It will require money / effort and male / female sports allyship like they do with disabled sports to push up trans / mixed events as something That’s just your national sports. Then consider how on earth would you make it international when so many countries ban / arrest / kill trans people
I think Europe / UK is at a point where we need to move forwards now from this culture nonsense and rubbish about bathrooms et That’s been done and put to bed. So it’s time to push forward and step up and figure out how to make one of the most marginalised groups integrate with society a lot better and not be othered in every aspect. |
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"It is interesting to see arguments centred around fairness and inclusivity to support men competing in female sports, isn't that an oxymoron?
If we want fairness in competitive sport, surely being in the correct categories is a no brainer. They don't allow feather weight, to box heavy weight for exactly those reasons.
How do we as a society go forward and promote and normalise trans persons and trans sports events to get some people interested in them as well to watch and in turn allow these categories to grow / develop b . If no public interest then really it’s all a dead duck in water before it even starts.
Though I think we will see a trans woman in F1 within the next 10 years and I am all for that
No we won’t. Not enough seats for one and if they were not good enough to get there as a male they are not getting there any other way
Keep up dear we are male now again under the EQ act when it comes to single sex requirements. . so it’s a matter of time until a trans person is good enough through the ranks to get in.
It’s going to come and I can’t wait to see the fucking meltdown from all the dickheads online trying to justify a reason to exclude said person. Ha
Seats dear. Only 20/22 available. Sponsors as well.
Wouldn’t need to exclude any one just wouldn’t be good enough so would not be a problem
"
|
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"It is interesting to see arguments centred around fairness and inclusivity to support men competing in female sports, isn't that an oxymoron?
If we want fairness in competitive sport, surely being in the correct categories is a no brainer. They don't allow feather weight, to box heavy weight for exactly those reasons.
How do we as a society go forward and promote and normalise trans persons and trans sports events to get some people interested in them as well to watch and in turn allow these categories to grow / develop b . If no public interest then really it’s all a dead duck in water before it even starts.
Though I think we will see a trans woman in F1 within the next 10 years and I am all for that
No we won’t. Not enough seats for one and if they were not good enough to get there as a male they are not getting there any other way
Keep up dear we are male now again under the EQ act when it comes to single sex requirements. . so it’s a matter of time until a trans person is good enough through the ranks to get in.
It’s going to come and I can’t wait to see the fucking meltdown from all the dickheads online trying to justify a reason to exclude said person. Ha
Seats dear. Only 20/22 available. Sponsors as well.
Wouldn’t need to exclude any one just wouldn’t be good enough so would not be a problem
"
As I said. Yet there will be some one come through it’s inevitable |
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"It is interesting to see arguments centred around fairness and inclusivity to support men competing in female sports, isn't that an oxymoron?
If we want fairness in competitive sport, surely being in the correct categories is a no brainer. They don't allow feather weight, to box heavy weight for exactly those reasons.
How do we as a society go forward and promote and normalise trans persons and trans sports events to get some people interested in them as well to watch and in turn allow these categories to grow / develop b . If no public interest then really it’s all a dead duck in water before it even starts.
Though I think we will see a trans woman in F1 within the next 10 years and I am all for that m
I think F1 (and motor racing in general) is an interesting sport because biological differences are relatively small here and skill levels will dominate. It is one of the few sports that could be open to all and as an F1 fan I would be pleased to see female and trans athletes compete in an open competition if they make the grade.
As to how do you get people watching trans sports in general - I think you need explicit trans categories and people need to compete in them. I am not aware of any substantive effort to create trans sports categories and until effort is pushed there then it won’t be watched.
Just isn’t the numbers tho is there
And part of the numbers problem is the sheer level of vitriol online from msm / political/ rich pricks / mouth pieces that are constant white washing every trans person as a sub human / nonce / pervert … blah blah insert whatever other rubbish trope in ..
Until the government start getting heavy handed with this regarding awful reporting on a minority community it’s no shit people srent interested at all
It will require money / effort and male / female sports allyship like they do with disabled sports to push up trans / mixed events as something That’s just your national sports. Then consider how on earth would you make it international when so many countries ban / arrest / kill trans people
I think Europe / UK is at a point where we need to move forwards now from this culture nonsense and rubbish about bathrooms et That’s been done and put to bed. So it’s time to push forward and step up and figure out how to make one of the most marginalised groups integrate with society a lot better and not be othered in every aspect. "
I’m not so sure that is the reason. There just isn’t that many trans people. What is the size of the out LGBT+ community? 5% of the population maybe? I’m really not sure, happy to be corrected. And I’d say 95% of those are LGB? The trans community is fairly small.
And what percentage of the population are pro or semi pro sport people or athletes? I’d say football is the biggest by number of participants. How many trans players are there in professional or semi professional women’s football? I don’t follow football so no idea.
From what I see, trans people are very resilient and vocal in defending themselves. A bloke that has the courage to put on a pink mini dress showing off his hairy chest and legs isn’t gonna be phased by much. |
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"You can declare that, but again it would be a bit supercilious.
This is a potential case of a man beating women up, which is a crime. But using a claim to being female as their defence. An official body has publicly stated that they conducted a test on this individual and the test said they are male.
Answer me this one question…. Does the possibility that what I’ve just might be all true not bother you?
Ok, one more question, how will you feel if it turns out they are male and you were wrong? Is that alone not worth being sure? Not worth them proving what the truth actually is?
If a swimmer is male or female is just a matter of fairness, maybe a privacy issue. This is a potential case of woman beating. I man standing before the world beating the crap out of multiple women and certain sections of society cheering him on and the Olympics giving him a medal for it.
But what’s the worst that can happen if I’m wrong?
I mean, people beating people up in general is usually a crime, but allowances are made for sport. Frankly I think the whole professional fighting thing is absurd and would happily not have anyone beating up anyone.
Imane Khelif has the same claim to womanhood that every other female boxer has. She was identified female at birth. Almost every other competitor in that event had only that as confirmation, any of them could equally be men.
An official body who's credibility has been called out many times by multiple reputable bodies. Whose claims did not match the evidence they had access to, and the labs that perform their testing clarified that no gender testing took place.
I really don’t know why we bother engaging with you. You’re clearly incapable of answering any question put to you.
Happy fabbing "
Jesus.
Does the possibility that what I’ve just might be all true not bother you? - That what is true? That men beat up women? I don't agree with that in general, as stated. I also don't agree with men beating up men, or women beating up women, or women beating up men either.
how will you feel if it turns out they are male and you were wrong? - If Imane Khelif is intersex and has lived her life as a woman without knowing, she's done no wrong by competing in a women's tournament. If it's true, it's unfortunate, but it doesn't bother me.
Is that alone not worth being sure? - No more worth it than genetically testing every athlete.
Not worth them proving what the truth actually is? - No more worth it than every single human being thoroughly tested and assigned a place. Though the spectrum that would provide would negate the whole penis = man and vagina = woman argument. |
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"The topic belongs in politics. It brings out far more toxicity than is welcomed in the lounge. There have been several threads moved there that included trans people in sport. If you ever feel like your block list is too empty, head on down to the politics forum 💜"
I find the virus forum is best for that |
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Even in Chess apparently...
It is commonly believed that women's sports were created to level the playing field for women.
Actually, womens sports were created because women were taking gold metals away from men. In particular, events involving long distance, events where extra bone mass or muscle Mass was detrimental to running or walking long distances. Where a greyhound build is better suited than greywolf build.
Bit like that whole fencing debacle. Power means NOTHING when the light footed one has a pointy sword. |
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It's now going to the ECHR.
You know, the ECHR that is required in order to keep hold of Northern Ireland?
The one enshrined into uk Law?
So no, it's far from over. American evangelicals will be very disappointed to have victory snatched from them. |
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"Even in Chess apparently...
It is commonly believed that women's sports were created to level the playing field for women.
Actually, womens sports were created because women were taking gold metals away from men. In particular, events involving long distance, events where extra bone mass or muscle Mass was detrimental to running or walking long distances. Where a greyhound build is better suited than greywolf build.
Bit like that whole fencing debacle. Power means NOTHING when the light footed one has a pointy sword."
That’s just not true though. Sex differences in world record times for marathon runners is just shy of 11% and this has been consistent for many years. Men run long distance events faster than women.
The persistent sex difference in marathon performance, even at the most elite level, is largely due to physiological and anatomical sex differences that emerge with the onset of puberty due to higher endogenous testosterone concentrations in males than females. Males have a larger heart size (larger stroke volume and thus cardiac output), greater blood hemoglobin concentration and mass, larger muscle mass, less percentage body fat to carry, and thus a higher V{¬y5k=¬}O2max than females (6,32–34). These differences are the primary driver of faster velocities for male compared with female runners. Nesburg et al, (2023),Sex Differences in Marathon Running: Physiology and Participation, Exercise, Sport, and Movement
|
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"Even in Chess apparently...
It is commonly believed that women's sports were created to level the playing field for women.
Actually, womens sports were created because women were taking gold metals away from men. In particular, events involving long distance, events where extra bone mass or muscle Mass was detrimental to running or walking long distances. Where a greyhound build is better suited than greywolf build.
Bit like that whole fencing debacle. Power means NOTHING when the light footed one has a pointy sword.
That’s just not true though. Sex differences in world record times for marathon runners is just shy of 11% and this has been consistent for many years. Men run long distance events faster than women.
"
Actually that is not quite true. The difference between the sexes decreases with distance. After about 195 miles women tend to be faster in ultra races and that difference then increases. |
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"Even in Chess apparently...
It is commonly believed that women's sports were created to level the playing field for women.
Actually, womens sports were created because women were taking gold metals away from men. In particular, events involving long distance, events where extra bone mass or muscle Mass was detrimental to running or walking long distances. Where a greyhound build is better suited than greywolf build.
Bit like that whole fencing debacle. Power means NOTHING when the light footed one has a pointy sword.
That’s just not true though. Sex differences in world record times for marathon runners is just shy of 11% and this has been consistent for many years. Men run long distance events faster than women.
Actually that is not quite true. The difference between the sexes decreases with distance. After about 195 miles women tend to be faster in ultra races and that difference then increases."
Not many races longer than 195 miles |
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By *ucka39Man 4 weeks ago
Newcastle |
Are they trying to create a separate sport based on gender it was a struggle for women and women eventually showed they were better than men
Maybe it'll be a way forward to stick it up the high and mighty then feel guilty |
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"Even in Chess apparently...
It is commonly believed that women's sports were created to level the playing field for women.
Actually, womens sports were created because women were taking gold metals away from men. In particular, events involving long distance, events where extra bone mass or muscle Mass was detrimental to running or walking long distances. Where a greyhound build is better suited than greywolf build.
Bit like that whole fencing debacle. Power means NOTHING when the light footed one has a pointy sword.
That’s just not true though. Sex differences in world record times for marathon runners is just shy of 11% and this has been consistent for many years. Men run long distance events faster than women.
Actually that is not quite true. The difference between the sexes decreases with distance. After about 195 miles women tend to be faster in ultra races and that difference then increases."
Except that’s not quite true. Whilst women have won ultra marathon events, when data is analysed for highly competitive elite level events, men still outperform women. There is an interesting article about it available online in Runners World, titled ‘Are women better endurance athletes than men?’ |
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"They won’t stop me from playing in women’s street jenga street championships. the dam heathens
You joke, but expect people to be up in arms about how men at birth naturally have a steadier hand than women because of their hormones
Women cannot compete against men in any sport or game, there is no competition where women compete on equal terms with men and win. This is what we call "biological differences", and is why biological men should never compete against women in any sport or game. "
I would agree in some ‘physical ‘ sports . Many years ago . I played table tennis as a junior representing town and county . Played in local leagues sometimes against females as no separate league for females. Also playing in open tournaments . Where there were international junior players. Yes separate in these for male , female juniors. I will say played several females who I lost against . In practice matches. I will say at that time ‘ matches ‘ were best of three to twenty one points. So yes males would perhaps a physical advantage over three games due to physical strength ? |
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"They won’t stop me from playing in women’s street jenga street championships. the dam heathens
You joke, but expect people to be up in arms about how men at birth naturally have a steadier hand than women because of their hormones
Women cannot compete against men in any sport or game, there is no competition where women compete on equal terms with men and win. This is what we call "biological differences", and is why biological men should never compete against women in any sport or game.
I would agree in some ‘physical ‘ sports . Many years ago . I played table tennis as a junior representing town and county . Played in local leagues sometimes against females as no separate league for females. Also playing in open tournaments . Where there were international junior players. Yes separate in these for male , female juniors. I will say played several females who I lost against . In practice matches. I will say at that time ‘ matches ‘ were best of three to twenty one points. So yes males would perhaps a physical advantage over three games due to physical strength ? "
Table tennis is one of the sports where the advantages are not glaringly obvious. Pool, snooker, bowling, shooting, darts and archery are other examples.
Men are better at building muscle memory and have better hand to eye coordination. One or both of those two attributes apply in just about every sport where strength isn’t a factor.
Then there’s the effects of the menstrual cycle. The world darts federation have been doing a lot of research into this over the past couple of years and the findings are stark.
Then there’s the testosterone levels. Trans are allowed higher levels than women but women aren’t allowed to take it as a supplement to level the playing field because it’s performance enhancing. So basically the men in woman’s sports are allowed to take performance enhancing supplements but the women aren’t.
There’s so much evidence to back up separating biological men from biological women in all sports, but the only reasons not to seems to centre around people’s feelings, something that is totally unquantifiable |
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