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Uk/EU deal
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By *end1 OP Man 1 week ago
southend on sea |
Is this the final nail in labour's coffin at the next election. I think we can all agree the Brexit deal was a shambles but allowing the EU to fish in our waters for 12 years hurting our fishermen. So what's people's thoughts did you vote leave but now think it was the wrong choice? |
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"Is this the final nail in labour's coffin at the next election. I think we can all agree the Brexit deal was a shambles but allowing the EU to fish in our waters for 12 years hurting our fishermen. So what's people's thoughts did you vote leave but now think it was the wrong choice?"
I don't see any actual changes. The documents are full of phrases like "work towards Erasmus" and "continue their efforts to support travel and cultural exchange" and "continue their exchanges on smooth border management".
it's foolish for the government to announce all these things as "agreements", and then make the people wait for the details to be ironed out. It'll make the anti-EU people angry because we're getting close to the EU, and the pro-EU people angry because it doesn't seem to be happening. |
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It's probably a net gain for Labour or neutral. It's hardly a calamity. 
It's likely to help more smaller businesses to trade more cheaply and easily, than the net harm caused to fishing, which will also have an EU market more readily.
The UK population need wealth generation |
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Only read the summery of what came in my news feeds, but don’t think much is changing really.
A deal on steel? We only have one company making steel and they are borderline bankrupt so hardly life changing.
They can fish in our waters for a few more years? Last time we tried to stop that the Royal Navy got defeated by a few Icelandic trawlers.
The food trade agreement is the only significant thing and that looks a positive from what I read. |
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Well we have had 40 yrs of testicular challenged muppets running us.. selling everything the country owned last nail.. fishing rights.. what a shocker... as even the bible says.. PROVERB 16:11 "As a dog returns to his vomit, so a fool repeats his folly" |
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"Only read the summery of what came in my news feeds, but don’t think much is changing really.
A deal on steel? We only have one company making steel and they are borderline bankrupt so hardly life changing.
They can fish in our waters for a few more years? Last time we tried to stop that the Royal Navy got defeated by a few Icelandic trawlers.
The food trade agreement is the only significant thing and that looks a positive from what I read. "
You are not quite right on steel production. We have a number of steel producers but you may be getting confused with the high end of production with furnaces for more specialist work which was in the news recently.
I'm not sure that you have your facts absolutely correct. |
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More people work in the yoga industry than work in fishing.
Hell, more people work at a university like Nottingham, or Northampton than work in fishing.
But sure, closer integration with the EU is a disaster for the country.
Quicker we rejoin the better. |
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"Does anyone think anything positive has come from leaving the EU?"
yep better wages and conditions for me less immigrants keeping my wages low for me Brexit is a winner others not so much but as we voted individually that's what I wanted.
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"Does anyone think anything positive has come from leaving the EU?"
Yes, many people do but that's not the point is it? We have freewill and a democracy. We democratically voted to leave. Does anyone think we shouldn't be allowed to live by our own decisions or do you really want to be told how to live your life by the EU? Whilst we're on the subject, I notice that the ever fair BBC reporting of the deal at a glance is short on facts as per usual. For example, the £360m fund for fishing and coastal growth fails to mention that it is over a 12 year period. We have access to SAFE...which we have to pay for, regardless of whether we actually get any contracts out of it. E-gates access for travellers...ooh the inconvenience of having to wait an hour to further your journey but hang on, it's only a proposal and individual member states can make up their own minds as to whether their great friends in the UK are worth it. I'm not against a new deal as the previous one was utter shite imo but I would suggest that our negotiating team sauntered in with a white flag flying rather than the union jack |
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"Does anyone think anything positive has come from leaving the EU?yep better wages and conditions for me less immigrants keeping my wages low for me Brexit is a winner others not so much but as we voted individually that's what I wanted."
It wasn't migrants keeping your wages low. It was your employer. |
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"Does anyone think anything positive has come from leaving the EU?yep better wages and conditions for me less immigrants keeping my wages low for me Brexit is a winner others not so much but as we voted individually that's what I wanted."
Net migration pre-Brexit 2019 = 184,000
Net migration post-Brexit 2024 = 728,000
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"Is this the final nail in labour's coffin at the next election. I think we can all agree the Brexit deal was a shambles but allowing the EU to fish in our waters for 12 years hurting our fishermen. So what's people's thoughts did you vote leave but now think it was the wrong choice?"
I think we need more details but it seems like the things the EU got like fishing rights and the movement of under 30 year olds seem to be nailed on firm decisions. The things the government got like E gates, red tape reduction etc are not nailed on and could be subject to change. Just my first impressions. Another oddity which may be me mis-rembering is I thought Labour were critical of the fishing deal when it was first announced following brexit. If correct then why extend it for another 12 years? |
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"Is this the final nail in labour's coffin at the next election. I think we can all agree the Brexit deal was a shambles but allowing the EU to fish in our waters for 12 years hurting our fishermen. So what's people's thoughts did you vote leave but now think it was the wrong choice?"
Ain't we the lucky ones for being sold out,,, yeahhh. |
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.. politians all as bad as each other, have been last 40 yrs.. as for the baby boomer dying comment.. Good luck kid!.. as history repeats again and again.. learning nothing.. show me an empire that has survived.. European is cracking open.. PUTIN will take Ukraine then montenegro around to old yugoslavia.. and "BINGO" WAR .. Short range nukes.. so don't celebrate the death of boomers to hard as your the one that's gonna be sent to the front lines... as "Europe combined forces" the new EU army.. have fun |
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".. politians all as bad as each other, have been last 40 yrs.. as for the baby boomer dying comment.. Good luck kid!.. as history repeats again and again.. learning nothing.. show me an empire that has survived.. European is cracking open.. PUTIN will take Ukraine then montenegro around to old yugoslavia.. and "BINGO" WAR .. Short range nukes.. so don't celebrate the death of boomers to hard as your the one that's gonna be sent to the front lines... as "Europe combined forces" the new EU army.. have fun "
ok boomer  |
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"Does anyone think anything positive has come from leaving the EU?"
i didnt cast a vote but as for anything positive coming from it, for me yes, watching total steangers hurling some vile insults at each other was highly entertaining apart from that its not really changed my life either way, as for freedom of movement dosent affect me not been to europe in about a decade i tend to go further flung places so queuing to show my passport is no big deal if i ever go europe again
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Why not let the EU fish in waters? We barely eat any fish unless it's fish fingers or battered cod. French and Spanish supermarkets are laden with fresh seafood. At best a UK supermarket might at best have some farmed salmon dyed lurid pink. |
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"Does anyone think anything positive has come from leaving the EU?yep better wages and conditions for me less immigrants keeping my wages low for me Brexit is a winner others not so much but as we voted individually that's what I wanted.
Net migration pre-Brexit 2019 = 184,000
Net migration post-Brexit 2024 = 728,000
"
How can we know those pre-Brexit numbers are right? There were no border controls for EU nationals at the time, so they wouldn't show up in the numbers would they? |
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What's with all the insults and personal attacks??
I get people have different political views but let's keep things civil folks; that's why I've always enjoyed the politics forum as grown up discussions could be had without resorting to personal insults.
This isn't the lounge  |
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By *end1 OP Man 1 week ago
southend on sea |
"What's with all the insults and personal attacks??
I get people have different political views but let's keep things civil folks; that's why I've always enjoyed the politics forum as grown up discussions could be had without resorting to personal insults.
This isn't the lounge "
fully agree with you. For me I have not been affected by Brexit |
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"Why not let the EU fish in waters? We barely eat any fish unless it's fish fingers or battered cod. French and Spanish supermarkets are laden with fresh seafood. At best a UK supermarket might at best have some farmed salmon dyed lurid pink."
It's not about eating them, it's about an entire industry and certain areas reliance upon them and the fact that that the UK does other things within it's waters other than fishing that are likely to be adversely affected. The EUs fleets reliance upon UK waters is well known which is why the pushed for this 12 year deal |
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By *deepdiveMan 1 week ago
France / Birmingham |
"Why not let the EU fish in waters? We barely eat any fish unless it's fish fingers or battered cod. French and Spanish supermarkets are laden with fresh seafood. At best a UK supermarket might at best have some farmed salmon dyed lurid pink.
It's not about eating them, it's about an entire industry and certain areas reliance upon them and the fact that that the UK does other things within it's waters other than fishing that are likely to be adversely affected. The EUs fleets reliance upon UK waters is well known which is why the pushed for this 12 year deal "
The fishing industry is 0.04% of UK GDP - increasing the existing deal for another 12 years is going to make no difference to the status quo and have no impact on the UK economy.
The only people who are getting uptight are Herr Farage and the Daily Fail readers. |
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"How can we know those pre-Brexit numbers are right? There were no border controls for EU nationals at the time, so they wouldn't show up in the numbers would they?"
I got those numbers from Statista but I think they are just presenting the Office for National Statistics data in an easier to digest form.
I'm not an expert in migration statistics but I presume the figures are based on a variety of sources including border control data. Apart from irregular migration, movements are logged by border control whenever passports are checked. Even before Brexit we all had to present passports on entering and leaving the UK.
The numbers will of course be best estimates rather than 100% accurate but I'd assume the uncertainty is pretty constant over time.
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"Why not let the EU fish in waters? We barely eat any fish unless it's fish fingers or battered cod. French and Spanish supermarkets are laden with fresh seafood. At best a UK supermarket might at best have some farmed salmon dyed lurid pink.
It's not about eating them, it's about an entire industry and certain areas reliance upon them and the fact that that the UK does other things within it's waters other than fishing that are likely to be adversely affected. The EUs fleets reliance upon UK waters is well known which is why the pushed for this 12 year deal
The fishing industry is 0.04% of UK GDP - increasing the existing deal for another 12 years is going to make no difference to the status quo and have no impact on the UK economy.
The only people who are getting uptight are Herr Farage and the Daily Fail readers."
Oh I see, so in your world, fuck the fisherman and everything that is attached to them? You completely misunderstand the whole point of Brexit. And btw as I said it's not just about the impact on fishing, I suggest you research it |
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"Why not let the EU fish in waters? We barely eat any fish unless it's fish fingers or battered cod. French and Spanish supermarkets are laden with fresh seafood. At best a UK supermarket might at best have some farmed salmon dyed lurid pink.
It's not about eating them, it's about an entire industry and certain areas reliance upon them and the fact that that the UK does other things within it's waters other than fishing that are likely to be adversely affected. The EUs fleets reliance upon UK waters is well known which is why the pushed for this 12 year deal
The fishing industry is 0.04% of UK GDP - increasing the existing deal for another 12 years is going to make no difference to the status quo and have no impact on the UK economy.
The only people who are getting uptight are Herr Farage and the Daily Fail readers.
Oh I see, so in your world, fuck the fisherman and everything that is attached to them? You completely misunderstand the whole point of Brexit. And btw as I said it's not just about the impact on fishing, I suggest you research it"
The "UK" fishing industry's history is worth reading up on going back to the 1970s. Unearthed has produced an easy to read precis. One interesting point is that when UK fishing licences were commoditised some of our fishermen sold out to foreign owners mainly the Dutch and Spanish for vast sums and retired in luxury. So today the "UK" finishing industry is characterised by a small number of large foreign operators with considerable political influence.
Hard on the small family run fishing businesses but no different to most industries because of globalisation. |
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Good to see the Remoaners so ready to dismiss the UK fishing industry.
Fishing, steel, coal, oil. There seems to be very little that the modern British Left won’t sacrifice on the altar of globalisation.
How times have changed…. |
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"Why not let the EU fish in waters? We barely eat any fish unless it's fish fingers or battered cod. French and Spanish supermarkets are laden with fresh seafood. At best a UK supermarket might at best have some farmed salmon dyed lurid pink.
It's not about eating them, it's about an entire industry and certain areas reliance upon them and the fact that that the UK does other things within it's waters other than fishing that are likely to be adversely affected. The EUs fleets reliance upon UK waters is well known which is why the pushed for this 12 year deal
The fishing industry is 0.04% of UK GDP - increasing the existing deal for another 12 years is going to make no difference to the status quo and have no impact on the UK economy.
The only people who are getting uptight are Herr Farage and the Daily Fail readers.
Oh I see, so in your world, fuck the fisherman and everything that is attached to them? You completely misunderstand the whole point of Brexit. And btw as I said it's not just about the impact on fishing, I suggest you research it
The "UK" fishing industry's history is worth reading up on going back to the 1970s. Unearthed has produced an easy to read precis. One interesting point is that when UK fishing licences were commoditised some of our fishermen sold out to foreign owners mainly the Dutch and Spanish for vast sums and retired in luxury. So today the "UK" finishing industry is characterised by a small number of large foreign operators with considerable political influence.
Hard on the small family run fishing businesses but no different to most industries because of globalisation."
Yes but it's not just the fish at the till...the overall effect is often forgotten. The EU overfishes and as a result it's fleet is set up for that hence it's reliance on UK waters. Independent figures suggest the entire worth of UK fishing, I stress entire, is £10-12bn. The BBC is currently suggesting the benefit of this deal will be up to £8bn... |
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I have a friend who is a fisherman, yep I'm a fisherman's friend.
He will lose out he is in team of three trawlers, they don't hold out much hope of any of them surviving in the industry no thanks to Starmer and Labour.
He reckons the gains are better than the loses. Time will tell. I think it's another step closer to Europe running this Country.
It will give Starmer an excuse to give up on migration control and let Europe control or not control it. He'll just say it was part of the deal.
Anything for an easy life.
They lost the election with the winter fuel cuts and arresting protesters last summer over Southport then NI rise was the final straw. Now the bull in the China shop is going through the Mall.
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By *deepdiveMan 1 week ago
France / Birmingham |
"Good to see the Remoaners so ready to dismiss the UK fishing industry.
Fishing, steel, coal, oil. There seems to be very little that the modern British Left won’t sacrifice on the altar of globalisation.
How times have changed…."
Glad to see the Daily Fail supporters still believe all they want to hear. |
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"It's probably a net gain for Labour or neutral. It's hardly a calamity.
It's likely to help more smaller businesses to trade more cheaply and easily, than the net harm caused to fishing, which will also have an EU market more readily.
The UK population need wealth generation "
‘the net harm caused to fishing’ 🤣😂  |
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By *iseekingbiCouple 1 week ago
N ireland and West Midlands |
"It's probably a net gain for Labour or neutral. It's hardly a calamity.
It's likely to help more smaller businesses to trade more cheaply and easily, than the net harm caused to fishing, which will also have an EU market more readily.
The UK population need wealth generation
‘the net harm caused to fishing’ 🤣😂 "
This argument is full of holes |
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"Why not let the EU fish in waters? We barely eat any fish unless it's fish fingers or battered cod. French and Spanish supermarkets are laden with fresh seafood. At best a UK supermarket might at best have some farmed salmon dyed lurid pink.
It's not about eating them, it's about an entire industry and certain areas reliance upon them and the fact that that the UK does other things within it's waters other than fishing that are likely to be adversely affected. The EUs fleets reliance upon UK waters is well known which is why the pushed for this 12 year deal
The fishing industry is 0.04% of UK GDP - increasing the existing deal for another 12 years is going to make no difference to the status quo and have no impact on the UK economy.
The only people who are getting uptight are Herr Farage and the Daily Fail readers.
Oh I see, so in your world, fuck the fisherman and everything that is attached to them? You completely misunderstand the whole point of Brexit. And btw as I said it's not just about the impact on fishing, I suggest you research it"
Things have to change; we can't remain stuck in the past. The UK needs to constantly update our approach and agreements, so that they become more fit for purpose and our evolving economy |
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"It's probably a net gain for Labour or neutral. It's hardly a calamity.
It's likely to help more smaller businesses to trade more cheaply and easily, than the net harm caused to fishing, which will also have an EU market more readily.
The UK population need wealth generation
‘the net harm caused to fishing’ 🤣😂 "
Stop trawling... |
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"Good to see the Remoaners so ready to dismiss the UK fishing industry.
Fishing, steel, coal, oil. There seems to be very little that the modern British Left won’t sacrifice on the altar of globalisation.
How times have changed….
Glad to see the Daily Fail supporters still believe all they want to hear."
Another genius deal from Starmer.
First paying Mauritius to take the Chagos Islands.
Now paying the EU to follow its rules and take a load of unemployed twenty somethings and their families off their hands.
Starmer would have agreed anything for the chance to toady up to the EU Commission. He never looks happier than when he’s spending time with fellow dull European technocrats. |
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"EU trade deal
USA trade deal
0.7% Q1 gdp growth
Interest rate cut
Exactly
Unfortunately there are those who ignore all the facts and yearn for a past life when Britannia ruled the waves.
"
if I were Britannia I'd waive the rules  |
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"Only read the summery of what came in my news feeds, but don’t think much is changing really.
A deal on steel? We only have one company making steel and they are borderline bankrupt so hardly life changing.
They can fish in our waters for a few more years? Last time we tried to stop that the Royal Navy got defeated by a few Icelandic trawlers.
The food trade agreement is the only significant thing and that looks a positive from what I read.
You are not quite right on steel production. We have a number of steel producers but you may be getting confused with the high end of production with furnaces for more specialist work which was in the news recently.
I'm not sure that you have your facts absolutely correct."
Happy to stand corrected but I think you may be confusing production and fabrication. Port Talbot was the only other facility with blast furnaces to produce steel from iron ore and I think they closed down, but I could be wrong. |
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"Wonder what the total so far and ongoing cost of Brexit is.
17 million people and the architects of Brexit should foot the bill? "
By that logic, only companies owned by Labour voters should pay the increased NI?
Only Labour voting pensioners should lose the winter fuel allowance?
Need I go on? |
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By *abioMan 1 week ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
I do find it funny that everyone goes on about the fishing…. Bearing in mind the current leader of reform went to a grand total of 1 of the 125 meetings whilst on the eu fisheries committee
And this deal actually makes it easier for uk fishermen to sell their catch to the EU due to less paperwork! |
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"Only read the summery of what came in my news feeds, but don’t think much is changing really.
A deal on steel? We only have one company making steel and they are borderline bankrupt so hardly life changing.
They can fish in our waters for a few more years? Last time we tried to stop that the Royal Navy got defeated by a few Icelandic trawlers.
The food trade agreement is the only significant thing and that looks a positive from what I read.
You are not quite right on steel production. We have a number of steel producers but you may be getting confused with the high end of production with furnaces for more specialist work which was in the news recently.
I'm not sure that you have your facts absolutely correct.
Happy to stand corrected but I think you may be confusing production and fabrication. Port Talbot was the only other facility with blast furnaces to produce steel from iron ore and I think they closed down, but I could be wrong. "
Not at all....blast furnace production is one thing but lower grade arc production is another. We still produce at GFG L8berty, Celsa, Marcegaglia among others.
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Up the coast of Scotland there are a lot of boats. Peterhead and Fraserburgh are big. Another fact on the island of Yell has more millionaires per head of population than London all due to fishing. |
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"I do find it funny that everyone goes on about the fishing…. Bearing in mind the current leader of reform went to a grand total of 1 of the 125 meetings whilst on the eu fisheries committee
And this deal actually makes it easier for uk fishermen to sell their catch to the EU due to less paperwork!"
Yes and at least Starmer has managed to make some progress. Nine years of this Brexit nonsense needs to be buried and move forward. |
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UK simply does not have the clout these days to go it alone & thrive on the back of something like Brexit.
…and to be honest, the main reason all the oldies voted for it was ‘too many immigrants’.
Well that went well didn’t it?
Anything that starts undoing the damage is ok imo |
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& it’s funny how the god of the alt right Trump thinks the future is in annexing/persuading neighbouring nations to join the U.S. isn’t it?
It’s almost as if there is greater strength in broader unions… |
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"& it’s funny how the god of the alt right Trump thinks the future is in annexing/persuading neighbouring nations to join the U.S. isn’t it?
It’s almost as if there is greater strength in broader unions…"
Yes the Scott’s and the Welsh want to break away from the UK. And for the Welsh it would be financially devastating. With the Scott’s it’s
Not quite so clear but with North Sea oil and gas being shut down by Milliband, it’s becomes more clear, from a purely financial point of view.
For the record by the way, I think if they want independence they should have it. I think England should have a vote on Independence too.
We don’t have to tie ourselves to another country or countries to be able to work together. This notion that the only way we can trade with Europe is to join the EU is just ridiculous |
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By *deepdiveMan 1 week ago
France / Birmingham |
"& it’s funny how the god of the alt right Trump thinks the future is in annexing/persuading neighbouring nations to join the U.S. isn’t it?
It’s almost as if there is greater strength in broader unions…
Yes the Scott’s and the Welsh want to break away from the UK. And for the Welsh it would be financially devastating. With the Scott’s it’s
Not quite so clear but with North Sea oil and gas being shut down by Milliband, it’s becomes more clear, from a purely financial point of view.
For the record by the way, I think if they want independence they should have it. I think England should have a vote on Independence too.
We don’t have to tie ourselves to another country or countries to be able to work together. This notion that the only way we can trade with Europe is to join the EU is just ridiculous "
The UK is already trading with the EU so you are correct.
When the UK was part of the EU, the trading arrangements were more fluid and less expensive.
It is what it is. |
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"& it’s funny how the god of the alt right Trump thinks the future is in annexing/persuading neighbouring nations to join the U.S. isn’t it?
It’s almost as if there is greater strength in broader unions…
Yes the Scott’s and the Welsh want to break away from the UK. And for the Welsh it would be financially devastating. With the Scott’s it’s
Not quite so clear but with North Sea oil and gas being shut down by Milliband, it’s becomes more clear, from a purely financial point of view.
For the record by the way, I think if they want independence they should have it. I think England should have a vote on Independence too.
We don’t have to tie ourselves to another country or countries to be able to work together. This notion that the only way we can trade with Europe is to join the EU is just ridiculous
The UK is already trading with the EU so you are correct.
When the UK was part of the EU, the trading arrangements were more fluid and less expensive.
It is what it is."
I agree. But they don’t have to be, that’s my point. |
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"I do find it funny that everyone goes on about the fishing…. Bearing in mind the current leader of reform went to a grand total of 1 of the 125 meetings whilst on the eu fisheries committee
And this deal actually makes it easier for uk fishermen to sell their catch to the EU due to less paperwork!"
That's if some other fishermen from Europe don't catch them first.
Back to the cod wars. |
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"I do find it funny that everyone goes on about the fishing…. Bearing in mind the current leader of reform went to a grand total of 1 of the 125 meetings whilst on the eu fisheries committee
And this deal actually makes it easier for uk fishermen to sell their catch to the EU due to less paperwork!"
From what I read the 12 year extension is on the right to fish in UK waters but the quota for the amount that can be caught is still going to be negotiated yearly |
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"it’s funny how the god of the alt right Trump thinks the future is in annexing/persuading neighbouring nations to join the U.S. isn’t it?
It’s almost as if there is greater strength in broader unions…"
So if Trump believes it, it must be true. Is that what you're saying? |
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"I do find it funny that everyone goes on about the fishing…. Bearing in mind the current leader of reform went to a grand total of 1 of the 125 meetings whilst on the eu fisheries committee
And this deal actually makes it easier for uk fishermen to sell their catch to the EU due to less paperwork!
From what I read the 12 year extension is on the right to fish in UK waters but the quota for the amount that can be caught is still going to be negotiated yearly"
Whatever it is it ends nine years of division and squabbling at home and with the EU. Brexit has been a cunts job from start to finish. |
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"I do find it funny that everyone goes on about the fishing…. Bearing in mind the current leader of reform went to a grand total of 1 of the 125 meetings whilst on the eu fisheries committee
And this deal actually makes it easier for uk fishermen to sell their catch to the EU due to less paperwork!
Yes and at least Starmer has managed to make some progress. Nine years of this Brexit nonsense needs to be buried and move forward. "
For some people, it seems like there's only ever 1 way to do things, so that they must never have improvements upon them attempted. Imagine Switzerland and other non-EU countries having to stay locked into one set of restrictions, despite everyone's sovereignty and intelligence. Not to mention, changing environmental, technological and economic conditions.
Almost as if there's a virus, that's against any type of progress  |
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"Whatever it is it ends nine years of division and squabbling at home and with the EU. Brexit has been a cunts job from start to finish."
Do you really think that this latest trade deal will end the squabbling? There's no possibility that the 2 sides might just keep on bitching at each other in the same way that they have for the past 9 years? |
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"Whatever it is it ends nine years of division and squabbling at home and with the EU. Brexit has been a cunts job from start to finish.
Do you really think that this latest trade deal will end the squabbling? There's no possibility that the 2 sides might just keep on bitching at each other in the same way that they have for the past 9 years?"
With the current situation re Trump/rise of protectionism, the everyday evidence that the promises of the Brexiteers will never happen, the majority of UK voters saying Brexit was the wrong decision, that I think it's possible the public will keep stumpf about Brexit; "keep calm & carry on"
It looking possible that going on about Brexit (& rejoin) is just white noise now |
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"Whatever it is it ends nine years of division and squabbling at home and with the EU. Brexit has been a cunts job from start to finish.
Do you really think that this latest trade deal will end the squabbling? There's no possibility that the 2 sides might just keep on bitching at each other in the same way that they have for the past 9 years?"
It could be a very shrewd move from SKS...by reigniting the Brexit issue, he hopes to keep the right vote split maybe and sees a 30% share of the vote as enough to win an election? Just a thought...but of course that doesn't incorporate the country before party ideal |
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"Whatever it is it ends nine years of division and squabbling at home and with the EU. Brexit has been a cunts job from start to finish.
Do you really think that this latest trade deal will end the squabbling? There's no possibility that the 2 sides might just keep on bitching at each other in the same way that they have for the past 9 years?
It could be a very shrewd move from SKS...by reigniting the Brexit issue, he hopes to keep the right vote split maybe and sees a 30% share of the vote as enough to win an election? Just a thought...but of course that doesn't incorporate the country before party ideal"
I think you give Starmer more political credit than he is due.
It’s hard to see exactly who Starmer’s constituency is. In 2024 he benefited from “anyone but the Tories” but who does he actually represent today, aside from French fishermen, the EU Commission and Hamas?
When did we last see Starmer wandering down a dilapidated northern High Street talking to residents about their concerns? Answer: never. He’d have nothing at all in common with them and would probably despise their opinions.
It seems Labour’s vote is shrinking back to its core: unionised public sector workers, urban dwelling brainwashed graduates, the odd net zero nut, a handful of bitter end Remoaners.
None of which is going to add up to enough people to win another election. |
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"A bit of a cracked record...
It's a done deal and Labour are in power - get over it!"
Are Labour “in power”?
I see no signs of it. They seem completely rudderless, flitting from one international conference to another while racking up the air miles.
Sure, like any government unpopular at home they seek solace in photo opportunities abroad.
But here we are almost a year in and what are the achievements? Where are the new homes? Where are the NHS and welfare reforms? Have the gangs been “smashed”? Is everyone better off? Is the economy booming?
Instead we get unnecessary surrender deals with Mauritius and the EU, poor deals with the US and India, praise from Hamas, wasted time and energy on private school fees and assisted suicide.
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"A bit of a cracked record...
It's a done deal and Labour are in power - get over it!"
"Are Labour “in power”?
I see no signs of it. They seem completely rudderless, flitting from one international conference to another while racking up the air miles."
You're confusing "in power" and "in control". |
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"They seem completely rudderless, flitting from one international conference to another while racking up the air miles. "
meanwhile, reform leader and notorious fascist nutty nige has, over the last year, spent 800+ hours of parliamentary time spread over countless trips abroad, mostly funded by foreign donors, and clocking up hundereds of thousands of miles in the process.
currently he couldn't be bothered to get off his sunbed whilst holidaying in a popular european resort, in order to debate the popular UK/EU trade deal. instead he chose to snipe from the sidelines, texting messages on social media in the same way as when he instructed his race rioters last summer.
parliament is in recess next week, but rather than represent his constituants and wait til then, he decided to rub their noses in it and go on yet another of his jollies during term time. |
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We need good relations with all our trading partners. What we don’t need is to be in bed with them for that to happen. We trade with nearly every country in the world I would have thought, but we don’t share a parliament with them, because there’s no need.
The Mrs and her boss have a trade agreement. She completes the tasks they give her and in return they give her money. They don’t discuss what’s for dinner, where to go on holiday, who they vote for or who takes it up the arse. It’s not necessary.
The ECC was as far as it needed to go, we don’t need a United States of Europe |
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By *uietbloke67Man 5 days ago
outside your bedroom window ;-) |
"Is this the final nail in labour's coffin at the next election. I think we can all agree the Brexit deal was a shambles but allowing the EU to fish in our waters for 12 years hurting our fishermen. So what's people's thoughts did you vote leave but now think it was the wrong choice?"
Catch a grip (see what I did there) it's a 12 extension of the fishing agreement that's been in place for years.
5000 fishermen in total in the Uk.
The fish farms bring in more revenue and need quicker access to the European markets with fresh fish.
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"Whatever it is it ends nine years of division and squabbling at home and with the EU. Brexit has been a cunts job from start to finish.
Do you really think that this latest trade deal will end the squabbling? There's no possibility that the 2 sides might just keep on bitching at each other in the same way that they have for the past 9 years?"
Well one side is now clearly a majority, as it was in the years before the referendum.
In fact the only time that the anti EU voice was ever been more than a whisper was in 2016.
I’ll say one thing for the Brexiters, they played the game well. If only they’d had a plan for what to do if they won. |
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"I’ll say one thing for the Brexiters, they played the game well. If only they’d had a plan for what to do if they won."
They did have a plan for what to do after they won, but they didn't get elected, so they weren't able to follow that plan. |
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"I’ll say one thing for the Brexiters, they played the game well. If only they’d had a plan for what to do if they won.
They did have a plan for what to do after they won, but they didn't get elected, so they weren't able to follow that plan."
Wasn’t Boris Johnson the key figurehead of the leave campaign? And late prime minister?
David Davis was Brexit secretary under May - he also campaigned to leave.
This revisionist nonsense about a ‘remain cabal’ failing to deliver Brexit is easily debunked.
May votes remain, sure - but she was talking ant delivering the hardest of possible Brexits - no deal is better than a bad deal etc. |
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What I struggle with in any debate on UK policy towards the EU, is the referendum always becomes the focus. Then the usual…
“most people who voted leave have changed their minds”
“The EU were on our side in the negotiations and did nothing but try to help us”
“We were lied to”…. Which I agree with by the way, both sides lied in their marketing, but there would have to be something medically wrong with you to think any politician ever tells the truth. They avoid answering direct questions and just prattle on with their message, all politicians on all sides. Why do we put up with it?
If you want to campaign to rejoin, great, knock yourselves out. Based on the claims I see made in here, 90% of the population agree with you so it won’t be a hard sell.
But why keep banging on about a vote that happened nearly 10 years ago? The vote that happened 10 months ago has done way more damage to bringing the country together than the Brexit vote. |
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"They did have a plan for what to do after they won, but they didn't get elected, so they weren't able to follow that plan."
Could you explain who you mean by "they" and what their plan was?
It sounds like you are trying to claim that Johnson wasn't a Brexiteer and that he didn't have what he called an "oven ready" plan. |
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"I’ll say one thing for the Brexiters, they played the game well. If only they’d had a plan for what to do if they won."
"They did have a plan for what to do after they won, but they didn't get elected, so they weren't able to follow that plan."
"Wasn’t Boris Johnson the key figurehead of the leave campaign? And late prime minister?
David Davis was Brexit secretary under May - he also campaigned to leave.
This revisionist nonsense about a ‘remain cabal’ failing to deliver Brexit is easily debunked.
May votes remain, sure - but she was talking ant delivering the hardest of possible Brexits - no deal is better than a bad deal etc."
Boris and May were put in place after the vote. Neither of them campaigned to leave before the vote. Whatever 'oven ready' plans they may have talked about didn't influence the vote.
The only people arguing for Leave before the vote were UKIP, and they didn't get voted in to implement whatever plans they may have had. |
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"I’ll say one thing for the Brexiters, they played the game well. If only they’d had a plan for what to do if they won.
They did have a plan for what to do after they won, but they didn't get elected, so they weren't able to follow that plan.
Wasn’t Boris Johnson the key figurehead of the leave campaign? And late prime minister?
David Davis was Brexit secretary under May - he also campaigned to leave.
This revisionist nonsense about a ‘remain cabal’ failing to deliver Brexit is easily debunked.
May votes remain, sure - but she was talking ant delivering the hardest of possible Brexits - no deal is better than a bad deal etc.
Boris and May were put in place after the vote. Neither of them campaigned to leave before the vote. Whatever 'oven ready' plans they may have talked about didn't influence the vote.
The only people arguing for Leave before the vote were UKIP, and they didn't get voted in to implement whatever plans they may have had."
Johnson was literally part of Vote Leave, the official leave campaign, with Gove, Cummings et al. |
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"I didn't realise you were so out of touch with reality. Johnson was a key figure in the leave campaign.
"
The problem with Brexit is it’s a never ending postmortem. Only Starmer seems to want to move on. |
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"I didn't realise you were so out of touch with reality. Johnson was a key figure in the leave campaign.
The problem with Brexit is it’s a never ending postmortem. Only Starmer seems to want to move on. "
Brexit/EU will always be a problem because due to geography, the UK is in Europe.
As for the comment above about Boris (?!), several Brexiteers campaigned on trade relations to the EU than currently exist, such as Farage, Hannan, Carswell. And several Brexiteers had high offices in UK government during Brexit; Raab, Braverman, Patel, Sunak, etc.
Maybe Brexit did work out as the promises could never be possible in the first place?? |
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"I didn't realise you were so out of touch with reality. Johnson was a key figure in the leave campaign."
Johnson did switch to Leave 3 months before the vote, but he didn't claim to have a plan for how to handle Brexit. The "oven ready deal" was only brought up to get him elected. The only plan that Johnson talked about before the vote was the £350m a week to the NHS. Something that did happen after we left. |
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Vote Leave launched its campaign on 20th Feburary 2016 the day that Cameron announced the date of the referendum. Johnson joined the campaign one day later and was probably the highest profile figure in the campaign. The fact that you didn't even know he was involved speaks volumes.
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"I didn't realise you were so out of touch with reality. Johnson was a key figure in the leave campaign.
Johnson did switch to Leave 3 months before the vote, but he didn't claim to have a plan for how to handle Brexit. The "oven ready deal" was only brought up to get him elected. The only plan that Johnson talked about before the vote was the £350m a week to the NHS. Something that did happen after we left."
Let’s not forget that the additional NHS money actually came from cuts, taxes and borrowing - not as a Brexit dividend. Because there was no Brexit dividend.
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"I didn't realise you were so out of touch with reality. Johnson was a key figure in the leave campaign.
Johnson did switch to Leave 3 months before the vote, but he didn't claim to have a plan for how to handle Brexit. The "oven ready deal" was only brought up to get him elected. The only plan that Johnson talked about before the vote was the £350m a week to the NHS. Something that did happen after we left.
Let’s not forget that the additional NHS money actually came from cuts, taxes and borrowing - not as a Brexit dividend. Because there was no Brexit dividend.
"
If our membership fee was £5billion for the sake of discussion, we should have at least been £5billion better off. Coughing up, rightly or wrongly, a divorce payment of…. Was it £47billion I can’t remember? Kinda cancelled that out. But ultimately we save the membership fees. |
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"I didn't realise you were so out of touch with reality. Johnson was a key figure in the leave campaign.
Johnson did switch to Leave 3 months before the vote, but he didn't claim to have a plan for how to handle Brexit. The "oven ready deal" was only brought up to get him elected. The only plan that Johnson talked about before the vote was the £350m a week to the NHS. Something that did happen after we left.
Let’s not forget that the additional NHS money actually came from cuts, taxes and borrowing - not as a Brexit dividend. Because there was no Brexit dividend.
If our membership fee was £5billion for the sake of discussion, we should have at least been £5billion better off. Coughing up, rightly or wrongly, a divorce payment of…. Was it £47billion I can’t remember? Kinda cancelled that out. But ultimately we save the membership fees. "
Except we didn’t save the ‘membership fees’ because the economic impact of leaving was greater than those ‘fees’ |
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In a way we need to see how other nations get on negotiating with trump over these tariffs. I see trump and the EU having a bit of a fall out just before they are due to meet. A lot of bluster probably but when the dust settles and they come to an agreement maybe the EU will get better terms, then again maybe worse terms. Worse still it could proceed to tit for tat tariffs on each other |
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"Vote Leave launched its campaign on 20th Feburary 2016 the day that Cameron announced the date of the referendum. Johnson joined the campaign one day later and was probably the highest profile figure in the campaign. The fact that you didn't even know he was involved speaks volumes."
Yes. But we weren't talking about the campaign, we were talking about who had a plan.
Just before the vote was announced, Boris famously wrote 2 columns for The Telegraph, one Remain and one Leave. When the opinion polls showed that Leave was in the lead, he had the Leave column published. He didn't have any plans for Brexit, he just wanted to be on the winning side.
If anyone had a plan, it would have been the UKIP people, the ones that had years of campaigning for Leave in which to come up with something. I don't know whether their plan would have worked, but the point is that they didn't get elected, so we didn't get to find out. |
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"Vote Leave launched its campaign on 20th Feburary 2016 the day that Cameron announced the date of the referendum. Johnson joined the campaign one day later and was probably the highest profile figure in the campaign. The fact that you didn't even know he was involved speaks volumes.
Yes. But we weren't talking about the campaign, we were talking about who had a plan.
Just before the vote was announced, Boris famously wrote 2 columns for The Telegraph, one Remain and one Leave. When the opinion polls showed that Leave was in the lead, he had the Leave column published. He didn't have any plans for Brexit, he just wanted to be on the winning side.
If anyone had a plan, it would have been the UKIP people, the ones that had years of campaigning for Leave in which to come up with something. I don't know whether their plan would have worked, but the point is that they didn't get elected, so we didn't get to find out."
And nor would they have won without vote leave. Cummings famously kept Farage’s group away from the official campaign because they were a liability.
And I highly doubt they had a plan either, such was Farage’s backtracking on the single market, Norway type deals etc. |
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