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Hostages being starved
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"Israeli leaders accused Hamas of starving hostages. Whilst Israel commits genocide in Gaza and stops aid reaching the people who are dying through starvation ( not to mention the bullets that are killing those who dare to collect the aid that appears to be getting through), World leaders decry how the hostages are not being fed. The whole situation is a complete and utter mess. October the 7th should have never happened but do people really expect the Gaza people to risk death to collect aid to then ensure that Israeli hostages are well fed?" That’s an interesting point about the people of Gaza not being expected to feed hostages, It is worth remembering that many of the hostages are believed to have been held in civilian homes and not all were / are in the hands of Hamas. That complicates the argument and the focus of the war but is often overlooked. | |||
" October the 7th should have never happened but do people really expect the Gaza people to risk death to collect aid to then ensure that Israeli hostages are well fed?" Dunno... What do YOU expect? | |||
"Israeli leaders accused Hamas of starving hostages. Whilst Israel commits genocide in Gaza and stops aid reaching the people who are dying through starvation ( not to mention the bullets that are killing those who dare to collect the aid that appears to be getting through), World leaders decry how the hostages are not being fed. The whole situation is a complete and utter mess. October the 7th should have never happened but do people really expect the Gaza people to risk death to collect aid to then ensure that Israeli hostages are well fed?" Based upon your logic does that mean Israelis shouldn't deliver aid because of the risk to them in doing so? Mrs x | |||
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"Whilst Israel commits genocide in Gaza and stops aid reaching the people who are dying through starvation ( not to mention the bullets that are killing those who dare to collect the aid that appears to be getting through), World leaders decry how the hostages are not being fed." THERE IS NO GENOCIDE IN GAZA. I have no doubt that some IDF soldiers have committed war crimes - but that does not imply a greater policy of extermination. Additionally, all reports of people being killed in food lines are coming from Hamas - who would much rather be able to carry on stealing aid. THERE IS ALSO NO WIDESPREAD FAMINE. The photo that went viral last week was of a child with cerebral palsy, and cases of birth defects are exceptionally high in Palestine because 44% of Palestinians marry their relatives and 22% their first cousins. Hamas are using disabled kids as propaganda tools - and yet you keep on believing the terrorists! | |||
"Whilst Israel commits genocide in Gaza and stops aid reaching the people who are dying through starvation ( not to mention the bullets that are killing those who dare to collect the aid that appears to be getting through), World leaders decry how the hostages are not being fed. THERE IS NO GENOCIDE IN GAZA. I have no doubt that some IDF soldiers have committed war crimes - but that does not imply a greater policy of extermination. Additionally, all reports of people being killed in food lines are coming from Hamas - who would much rather be able to carry on stealing aid. THERE IS ALSO NO WIDESPREAD FAMINE. The photo that went viral last week was of a child with cerebral palsy, and cases of birth defects are exceptionally high in Palestine because 44% of Palestinians marry their relatives and 22% their first cousins. Hamas are using disabled kids as propaganda tools - and yet you keep on believing the terrorists!" The BBC and others claim they use 'trusted sources' to verify stories from within Gaza, so not Hamas. Moreover, news organisations would be happy to place correspondents on the ground, but Israel won't allow it. There's a red flag right there. | |||
" THERE IS NO GENOCIDE IN GAZA. I have no doubt that some IDF soldiers have committed war crimes - but that does not imply a greater policy of extermination. Additionally, all reports of people being killed in food lines are coming from Hamas - who would much rather be able to carry on stealing aid. THERE IS ALSO NO WIDESPREAD FAMINE. The photo that went viral last week was of a child with cerebral palsy, and cases of birth defects are exceptionally high in Palestine because 44% of Palestinians marry their relatives and 22% their first cousins. Hamas are using disabled kids as propaganda tools - and yet you keep on believing the terrorists!" this level of utter garbage is demostrative as to why the israeli government has lost it's own propaganda war | |||
"Whilst Israel commits genocide in Gaza and stops aid reaching the people who are dying through starvation ( not to mention the bullets that are killing those who dare to collect the aid that appears to be getting through), World leaders decry how the hostages are not being fed. THERE IS NO GENOCIDE IN GAZA. I have no doubt that some IDF soldiers have committed war crimes - but that does not imply a greater policy of extermination. Additionally, all reports of people being killed in food lines are coming from Hamas - who would much rather be able to carry on stealing aid. THERE IS ALSO NO WIDESPREAD FAMINE. The photo that went viral last week was of a child with cerebral palsy, and cases of birth defects are exceptionally high in Palestine because 44% of Palestinians marry their relatives and 22% their first cousins. Hamas are using disabled kids as propaganda tools - and yet you keep on believing the terrorists! The BBC and others claim they use 'trusted sources' to verify stories from within Gaza, so not Hamas. Moreover, news organisations would be happy to place correspondents on the ground, but Israel won't allow it. There's a red flag right there." I’m not sure which other news organisations you are referring to. But the BBC had the child of a Hamas government minister narrate a documentary on Gaza for it, so I think I’d take its coverage with a pinch of salt. | |||
"THERE IS NO GENOCIDE IN GAZA. I have no doubt that some IDF soldiers have committed war crimes - but that does not imply a greater policy of extermination. Additionally, all reports of people being killed in food lines are coming from Hamas - who would much rather be able to carry on stealing aid. THERE IS ALSO NO WIDESPREAD FAMINE. The photo that went viral last week was of a child with cerebral palsy, and cases of birth defects are exceptionally high in Palestine because 44% of Palestinians marry their relatives and 22% their first cousins. Hamas are using disabled kids as propaganda tools - and yet you keep on believing the terrorists!" Where do you get your news from? It's true that we don't have a full picture of what's happening in Gaza because the Israeli government refuses to allow independent journalists in. So we ask why? But there are still sources that can't be controlled by Israeli censorship. So we still get some reporting, for instance from international medical staff. And you can't convince anyone that all of these people are aligned with Hamas and are lying. Another problem for you is that so much of what has been said by the Israeil government and the IDF has turned out to be lies. Yet another problem for your narrative is that increasing numbers of scholars on genocide are declaring that it is a genocide. And when we see people like David Mencer and Tzipi Hotovely being interviewed it's basically impossible to believe a word they say. You've lost the information war. | |||
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"Where do you get your news from? " I aggregate data from various sources, then I weigh up the pros and cons and work it out for myself. Most people do not do this. I'm reasonably confident that mainstream media is running an anti-Israel bias deliberately - and that includes the BBC. Like, I can almost guarantee that almost nobody knows about widespread birth defects in Palestinian children - which can be verified through various PubMed articles dating back to the 1990s. It's very telling that the Daily Express slapped a photo of an unwell child on its front page - and then retracted the famine story days later with a small entry tucked away where people wouldn't typically notice. But the story about the hostage being starved - absolutely not front page. | |||
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"THERE IS NO GENOCIDE IN GAZA. I have no doubt that some IDF soldiers have committed war crimes - but that does not imply a greater policy of extermination. Additionally, all reports of people being killed in food lines are coming from Hamas - who would much rather be able to carry on stealing aid. THERE IS ALSO NO WIDESPREAD FAMINE. The photo that went viral last week was of a child with cerebral palsy, and cases of birth defects are exceptionally high in Palestine because 44% of Palestinians marry their relatives and 22% their first cousins. Hamas are using disabled kids as propaganda tools - and yet you keep on believing the terrorists! Where do you get your news from? It's true that we don't have a full picture of what's happening in Gaza because the Israeli government refuses to allow independent journalists in. So we ask why? But there are still sources that can't be controlled by Israeli censorship. So we still get some reporting, for instance from international medical staff. And you can't convince anyone that all of these people are aligned with Hamas and are lying. Another problem for you is that so much of what has been said by the Israeil government and the IDF has turned out to be lies. Yet another problem for your narrative is that increasing numbers of scholars on genocide are declaring that it is a genocide. And when we see people like David Mencer and Tzipi Hotovely being interviewed it's basically impossible to believe a word they say. You've lost the information war. " This time I got my news from The New York Times. Hope thats acceptable for you. The child in the photo, Mohammed Zakaria al-Mutawaq, does indeed have cerebral palsy. This was found out by independant journalists and an editors note was stuck to the bottom of an article 5 days after the story broke in The New York Times. A picture of the poorly child, his mother and his brother was published online by this reporter and it clearly showed the brother to be in a far healthier state than his brother. Unfortunately Hamas are 'weaponising' the suffering of others to achieve their propaganda aims. Thats sick. As for not letting independant journalists in then look up Andrew Fox. An independant, former British Army Officer, who has been into Gaza and witnessed tge destruction first hand. See what he says about the situation. Not very exciting or salacious but mainly common sense, not sure you'd agree with his findings and find someway of discrediting him but he is definitely worth a listen too. Also debunks the fact that no journalists are let in. There's also another journalist, who's name escapes me right now. But again another former British Officer, a retired Colonel and he was also an advisor to our government on matters relating to the Middle East. He has actually filmed at the aid distribution centres and he to is very much worth listening to. Mrs x | |||
"As for not letting independant journalists in then look up Andrew Fox. An independant, former British Army Officer, who has been into Gaza and witnessed tge destruction first hand. See what he says about the situation. Not very exciting or salacious but mainly common sense, not sure you'd agree with his findings and find someway of discrediting him but he is definitely worth a listen too. Also debunks the fact that no journalists are let in." Andrew Fox is pretty good actually - and before anyone concludes he's a pro-Israel propagandist, maybe take time to listen to what he says, to see that he's not shy in criticising Israel when criticism is warranted. | |||
"According to its own data, the UN and its partners have offloaded 2,134 trucks of aid at Gaza crossings since May 19. I make that 28.5 trucks a day. Separately the Palestinians said 16 trucks arrived yesterday. How many trucks do you need to feed two million people. The Jewish hostage pictured clearly not been fed with all this food being delivered. " According to NUFAO 2,297 tonnes - equivalent to 120 trucks - per day are required to deliver food baskets providing 2,100 calories per person per day to the entire population of the Gaza Strip. so not nearly enough is being allowed through by the israeli authorities. | |||
"According to its own data, the UN and its partners have offloaded 2,134 trucks of aid at Gaza crossings since May 19. I make that 28.5 trucks a day. Separately the Palestinians said 16 trucks arrived yesterday. How many trucks do you need to feed two million people. The Jewish hostage pictured clearly not been fed with all this food being delivered. According to NUFAO 2,297 tonnes - equivalent to 120 trucks - per day are required to deliver food baskets providing 2,100 calories per person per day to the entire population of the Gaza Strip. so not nearly enough is being allowed through by the israeli authorities." Accepting all these sources are accurate then Gazans are getting less than 25% of the recommended food intake. Auschwitz rations. | |||
"According to its own data, the UN and its partners have offloaded 2,134 trucks of aid at Gaza crossings since May 19. I make that 28.5 trucks a day. Separately the Palestinians said 16 trucks arrived yesterday. How many trucks do you need to feed two million people. The Jewish hostage pictured clearly not been fed with all this food being delivered. According to NUFAO 2,297 tonnes - equivalent to 120 trucks - per day are required to deliver food baskets providing 2,100 calories per person per day to the entire population of the Gaza Strip. so not nearly enough is being allowed through by the israeli authorities. Accepting all these sources are accurate then Gazans are getting less than 25% of the recommended food intake. Auschwitz rations. " i think it's safe to take figures from United Nations Food and Agriculture Organisation as being informed and independent | |||
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"According to its own data, the UN and its partners have offloaded 2,134 trucks of aid at Gaza crossings since May 19. I make that 28.5 trucks a day. Separately the Palestinians said 16 trucks arrived yesterday. How many trucks do you need to feed two million people. The Jewish hostage pictured clearly not been fed with all this food being delivered. According to NUFAO 2,297 tonnes - equivalent to 120 trucks - per day are required to deliver food baskets providing 2,100 calories per person per day to the entire population of the Gaza Strip. so not nearly enough is being allowed through by the israeli authorities. Accepting all these sources are accurate then Gazans are getting less than 25% of the recommended food intake. Auschwitz rations. i think it's safe to take figures from United Nations Food and Agriculture Organisation as being informed and independent" Remembering that nine members of the UN refugee agency in Gaza were members of Hamas and directly involved with the October attacks. | |||
"According to its own data, the UN and its partners have offloaded 2,134 trucks of aid at Gaza crossings since May 19. I make that 28.5 trucks a day. Separately the Palestinians said 16 trucks arrived yesterday. How many trucks do you need to feed two million people. The Jewish hostage pictured clearly not been fed with all this food being delivered. According to NUFAO 2,297 tonnes - equivalent to 120 trucks - per day are required to deliver food baskets providing 2,100 calories per person per day to the entire population of the Gaza Strip. so not nearly enough is being allowed through by the israeli authorities. Accepting all these sources are accurate then Gazans are getting less than 25% of the recommended food intake. Auschwitz rations. i think it's safe to take figures from United Nations Food and Agriculture Organisation as being informed and independent Remembering that nine members of the UN refugee agency in Gaza were members of Hamas and directly involved with the October attacks. " This old chestnut! You didn't read the report "Investigation completed: allegations on UNRWA staff participation in the 7 October attacks"? | |||
"According to its own data, the UN and its partners have offloaded 2,134 trucks of aid at Gaza crossings since May 19. I make that 28.5 trucks a day. Separately the Palestinians said 16 trucks arrived yesterday. How many trucks do you need to feed two million people. The Jewish hostage pictured clearly not been fed with all this food being delivered. According to NUFAO 2,297 tonnes - equivalent to 120 trucks - per day are required to deliver food baskets providing 2,100 calories per person per day to the entire population of the Gaza Strip. so not nearly enough is being allowed through by the israeli authorities. Accepting all these sources are accurate then Gazans are getting less than 25% of the recommended food intake. Auschwitz rations. i think it's safe to take figures from United Nations Food and Agriculture Organisation as being informed and independent Remembering that nine members of the UN refugee agency in Gaza were members of Hamas and directly involved with the October attacks. " actually UNRWA fired the staff during an independent investigation of the israeli allegations .... the conclusions found that the israeli government still haven't provided the evidence for their claims and the allegations remain unsubstantiated. | |||
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"According to its own data, the UN and its partners have offloaded 2,134 trucks of aid at Gaza crossings since May 19. I make that 28.5 trucks a day. Separately the Palestinians said 16 trucks arrived yesterday. How many trucks do you need to feed two million people. The Jewish hostage pictured clearly not been fed with all this food being delivered. According to NUFAO 2,297 tonnes - equivalent to 120 trucks - per day are required to deliver food baskets providing 2,100 calories per person per day to the entire population of the Gaza Strip. so not nearly enough is being allowed through by the israeli authorities. Accepting all these sources are accurate then Gazans are getting less than 25% of the recommended food intake. Auschwitz rations. i think it's safe to take figures from United Nations Food and Agriculture Organisation as being informed and independent Remembering that nine members of the UN refugee agency in Gaza were members of Hamas and directly involved with the October attacks. actually UNRWA fired the staff during an independent investigation of the israeli allegations .... the conclusions found that the israeli government still haven't provided the evidence for their claims and the allegations remain unsubstantiated." ... 'a United Nations report shows that “87% of its 2,010 food trucks in Gaza (85% by tonnage) from May 19-July 29 were ‘intercepted’ − either peacefully by crowds or forcefully by armed actors.” In other words, Hamas is intercepting food meant for civilians. That’s worth reporting. ' Mrs x | |||
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"I’ll trust the likes of the international red cross, oxfam, Doctors Without Borders, and other NGO’s in regards to what the situation is like in Gaza.. and if they say the situation is bad, I’ll believe them So pre October 7th there was 120 trucks a day going in… since Israel renege on phase 2, they allowed in ZERO for 11 weeks… even the airdrops are equivalent to 8-10 trucks worth! So it’s galling to see the Israeli propaganda.. if you have nothing to hide let foreign journalists in … " It is beyond stupid that Hamas launched an attack on Israel when the people of Gaza are reliant upon food trucks coming in.. It is ridiculous to think that Hamas couldn't see this unfolding as it did, it must have been a deliberate act inflicted upon their own people and for what? | |||
"Anyone who thinks that Andrew Fox is an independent journalist needs their head examining. " his involvement with the sinister Henry Jackson Foundation says it all reallyand at which university was he a scholar of Journalism? | |||
" 'a United Nations report shows that “87% of its 2,010 food trucks in Gaza (85% by tonnage) from May 19-July 29 were ‘intercepted’ − either peacefully by crowds or forcefully by armed actors.” In other words, Hamas is intercepting food meant for civilians. That’s worth reporting. ' Mrs x" the bit you decided to censor out said 51% of the aid was recovered according to the same report. the remaining aid was destroyed by an israeli airstrike. the report also mentions that the aid was interecpted by an armed group of people with no evidence either way that it was hamas or not. | |||
"I’ll trust the likes of the international red cross, oxfam, Doctors Without Borders, and other NGO’s in regards to what the situation is like in Gaza.. and if they say the situation is bad, I’ll believe them So pre October 7th there was 120 trucks a day going in… since Israel renege on phase 2, they allowed in ZERO for 11 weeks… even the airdrops are equivalent to 8-10 trucks worth! So it’s galling to see the Israeli propaganda.. if you have nothing to hide let foreign journalists in … It is beyond stupid that Hamas launched an attack on Israel when the people of Gaza are reliant upon food trucks coming in.. It is ridiculous to think that Hamas couldn't see this unfolding as it did, it must have been a deliberate act inflicted upon their own people and for what? " And reportedly with 75% of Palestinians supporting the attacks and butchering. Israel owes them fuck all. | |||
"It is beyond stupid that Hamas launched an attack on Israel when the people of Gaza are reliant upon food trucks coming in.. It is ridiculous to think that Hamas couldn't see this unfolding as it did, it must have been a deliberate act inflicted upon their own people and for what?" Maybe they thought that the Israeli government would use the same calculus as they did in 2006 when Dov Weisglass said "The idea is to put the Palestinians on a diet, but not to make them die of hunger”. | |||
" 'a United Nations report shows that “87% of its 2,010 food trucks in Gaza (85% by tonnage) from May 19-July 29 were ‘intercepted’ − either peacefully by crowds or forcefully by armed actors.” In other words, Hamas is intercepting food meant for civilians. That’s worth reporting. ' Mrs x the bit you decided to censor out said 51% of the aid was recovered according to the same report. the remaining aid was destroyed by an israeli airstrike. the report also mentions that the aid was interecpted by an armed group of people with no evidence either way that it was hamas or not." Do you ever use a common sense approach to these debates? If you do ask yourself what purpose is served by taking aid to distribution centres only to then not distribute it and then try and kill those seeking aid? Wouldn't it be easier to just kill the population without taking them any aid? So why do this then? Mrs x | |||
" 'a United Nations report shows that “87% of its 2,010 food trucks in Gaza (85% by tonnage) from May 19-July 29 were ‘intercepted’ − either peacefully by crowds or forcefully by armed actors.” In other words, Hamas is intercepting food meant for civilians. That’s worth reporting. ' Mrs x the bit you decided to censor out said 51% of the aid was recovered according to the same report. the remaining aid was destroyed by an israeli airstrike. the report also mentions that the aid was interecpted by an armed group of people with no evidence either way that it was hamas or not.Do you ever use a common sense approach to these debates? If you do ask yourself what purpose is served by taking aid to distribution centres only to then not distribute it and then try and kill those seeking aid? Wouldn't it be easier to just kill the population without taking them any aid? So why do this then? Mrs x" hmmm common sense ... the phrase used to cancel people who disagree with you | |||
" 'a United Nations report shows that “87% of its 2,010 food trucks in Gaza (85% by tonnage) from May 19-July 29 were ‘intercepted’ − either peacefully by crowds or forcefully by armed actors.” In other words, Hamas is intercepting food meant for civilians. That’s worth reporting. ' Mrs x the bit you decided to censor out said 51% of the aid was recovered according to the same report. the remaining aid was destroyed by an israeli airstrike. the report also mentions that the aid was interecpted by an armed group of people with no evidence either way that it was hamas or not.Do you ever use a common sense approach to these debates? If you do ask yourself what purpose is served by taking aid to distribution centres only to then not distribute it and then try and kill those seeking aid? Wouldn't it be easier to just kill the population without taking them any aid? So why do this then? Mrs x" I think we are supposed to believe that Israel are genocidal maniacs who want to kill all the Palestinians and have the weaponry to do so, but they just aren’t very good at it. | |||
" 'a United Nations report shows that “87% of its 2,010 food trucks in Gaza (85% by tonnage) from May 19-July 29 were ‘intercepted’ − either peacefully by crowds or forcefully by armed actors.” In other words, Hamas is intercepting food meant for civilians. That’s worth reporting. ' Mrs x the bit you decided to censor out said 51% of the aid was recovered according to the same report. the remaining aid was destroyed by an israeli airstrike. the report also mentions that the aid was interecpted by an armed group of people with no evidence either way that it was hamas or not.Do you ever use a common sense approach to these debates? If you do ask yourself what purpose is served by taking aid to distribution centres only to then not distribute it and then try and kill those seeking aid? Wouldn't it be easier to just kill the population without taking them any aid? So why do this then? Mrs x hmmm common sense ... the phrase used to cancel people who disagree with you " Not at all, I dont want to cancel anyone, Mrs x | |||
" 'a United Nations report shows that “87% of its 2,010 food trucks in Gaza (85% by tonnage) from May 19-July 29 were ‘intercepted’ − either peacefully by crowds or forcefully by armed actors.” In other words, Hamas is intercepting food meant for civilians. That’s worth reporting. ' Mrs x the bit you decided to censor out said 51% of the aid was recovered according to the same report. the remaining aid was destroyed by an israeli airstrike. the report also mentions that the aid was interecpted by an armed group of people with no evidence either way that it was hamas or not.Do you ever use a common sense approach to these debates? If you do ask yourself what purpose is served by taking aid to distribution centres only to then not distribute it and then try and kill those seeking aid? Wouldn't it be easier to just kill the population without taking them any aid? So why do this then? Mrs x I think we are supposed to believe that Israel are genocidal maniacs who want to kill all the Palestinians and have the weaponry to do so, but they just aren’t very good at it." They are absolutely shit at it if thats their aim. Palestinians have grown in number, in the region, from 100,000 plus after 1948 to more than 6 million now. Weird genocide where the population has increased and increased massively. Mrs x | |||
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"I’ll trust the likes of the international red cross, oxfam, Doctors Without Borders, and other NGO’s in regards to what the situation is like in Gaza.. and if they say the situation is bad, I’ll believe them So pre October 7th there was 120 trucks a day going in… since Israel renege on phase 2, they allowed in ZERO for 11 weeks… even the airdrops are equivalent to 8-10 trucks worth! So it’s galling to see the Israeli propaganda.. if you have nothing to hide let foreign journalists in … It is beyond stupid that Hamas launched an attack on Israel when the people of Gaza are reliant upon food trucks coming in.. It is ridiculous to think that Hamas couldn't see this unfolding as it did, it must have been a deliberate act inflicted upon their own people and for what? And reportedly with 75% of Palestinians supporting the attacks and butchering. Israel owes them fuck all. " This has been debunked more times than you and I have had hot dinners combined. Yet it continues to be trotted out. Side note, even if it was true, would that justify that mass slaughter of children and babies? | |||
"I’ll trust the likes of the international red cross, oxfam, Doctors Without Borders, and other NGO’s in regards to what the situation is like in Gaza.. and if they say the situation is bad, I’ll believe them So pre October 7th there was 120 trucks a day going in… since Israel renege on phase 2, they allowed in ZERO for 11 weeks… even the airdrops are equivalent to 8-10 trucks worth! So it’s galling to see the Israeli propaganda.. if you have nothing to hide let foreign journalists in … It is beyond stupid that Hamas launched an attack on Israel when the people of Gaza are reliant upon food trucks coming in.. It is ridiculous to think that Hamas couldn't see this unfolding as it did, it must have been a deliberate act inflicted upon their own people and for what? And reportedly with 75% of Palestinians supporting the attacks and butchering. Israel owes them fuck all. This has been debunked more times than you and I have had hot dinners combined. Yet it continues to be trotted out. Side note, even if it was true, would that justify that mass slaughter of children and babies?" Hamas should stop hiding behind children and babies, that may make a difference, Mrs x | |||
"It's like the concept of titration. The slow addition of something while carefully monitoring its effect. The idea being to go as far as possible while still having the apologists on side. " What are you applying this too? Mrs x | |||
"I’ll trust the likes of the international red cross, oxfam, Doctors Without Borders, and other NGO’s in regards to what the situation is like in Gaza.. and if they say the situation is bad, I’ll believe them So pre October 7th there was 120 trucks a day going in… since Israel renege on phase 2, they allowed in ZERO for 11 weeks… even the airdrops are equivalent to 8-10 trucks worth! So it’s galling to see the Israeli propaganda.. if you have nothing to hide let foreign journalists in … It is beyond stupid that Hamas launched an attack on Israel when the people of Gaza are reliant upon food trucks coming in.. It is ridiculous to think that Hamas couldn't see this unfolding as it did, it must have been a deliberate act inflicted upon their own people and for what? And reportedly with 75% of Palestinians supporting the attacks and butchering. Israel owes them fuck all. This has been debunked more times than you and I have had hot dinners combined. Yet it continues to be trotted out. Side note, even if it was true, would that justify that mass slaughter of children and babies?Hamas should stop hiding behind children and babies, that may make a difference, Mrs x" If I had a pound for every single "what about Hamas" or "It's Hamas's fault that the IDF are mass slaughtering kids". I'd be a wealthy man. | |||
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""It's like the concept of titration. The slow addition of something while carefully monitoring its effect. The idea being to go as far as possible while still having the apologists on side." What are you applying this too? Mrs x" That could be a long list. Let's start with these two... The killing of about 1,300 people queuing up to get food. The building of ever more Israeli settlements in the West Bank. | |||
"I’ll trust the likes of the international red cross, oxfam, Doctors Without Borders, and other NGO’s in regards to what the situation is like in Gaza.. and if they say the situation is bad, I’ll believe them So pre October 7th there was 120 trucks a day going in… since Israel renege on phase 2, they allowed in ZERO for 11 weeks… even the airdrops are equivalent to 8-10 trucks worth! So it’s galling to see the Israeli propaganda.. if you have nothing to hide let foreign journalists in … It is beyond stupid that Hamas launched an attack on Israel when the people of Gaza are reliant upon food trucks coming in.. It is ridiculous to think that Hamas couldn't see this unfolding as it did, it must have been a deliberate act inflicted upon their own people and for what? And reportedly with 75% of Palestinians supporting the attacks and butchering. Israel owes them fuck all. This has been debunked more times than you and I have had hot dinners combined. Yet it continues to be trotted out. Side note, even if it was true, would that justify that mass slaughter of children and babies?Hamas should stop hiding behind children and babies, that may make a difference, Mrs x If I had a pound for every single "what about Hamas" or "It's Hamas's fault that the IDF are mass slaughtering kids". I'd be a wealthy man." Why play down the impact Hamas has and is having at every opportunity? They are very much an equal problem in this war, and yet it seems so difficult for many to recognise. | |||
"I’ll trust the likes of the international red cross, oxfam, Doctors Without Borders, and other NGO’s in regards to what the situation is like in Gaza.. and if they say the situation is bad, I’ll believe them So pre October 7th there was 120 trucks a day going in… since Israel renege on phase 2, they allowed in ZERO for 11 weeks… even the airdrops are equivalent to 8-10 trucks worth! So it’s galling to see the Israeli propaganda.. if you have nothing to hide let foreign journalists in … It is beyond stupid that Hamas launched an attack on Israel when the people of Gaza are reliant upon food trucks coming in.. It is ridiculous to think that Hamas couldn't see this unfolding as it did, it must have been a deliberate act inflicted upon their own people and for what? And reportedly with 75% of Palestinians supporting the attacks and butchering. Israel owes them fuck all. This has been debunked more times than you and I have had hot dinners combined. Yet it continues to be trotted out. Side note, even if it was true, would that justify that mass slaughter of children and babies?Hamas should stop hiding behind children and babies, that may make a difference, Mrs x If I had a pound for every single "what about Hamas" or "It's Hamas's fault that the IDF are mass slaughtering kids". I'd be a wealthy man." If October 7th hadn't happened, if Israeli civilians hadn't been murdered and rated, if babies hadn't been burnt alive, would the IDF have engaged Hamas like they have? Cant wait for the spin on this, I'll have to hold on tight this will be a very skinny ride im sure, Mrs x | |||
"I’ll trust the likes of the international red cross, oxfam, Doctors Without Borders, and other NGO’s in regards to what the situation is like in Gaza.. and if they say the situation is bad, I’ll believe them So pre October 7th there was 120 trucks a day going in… since Israel renege on phase 2, they allowed in ZERO for 11 weeks… even the airdrops are equivalent to 8-10 trucks worth! So it’s galling to see the Israeli propaganda.. if you have nothing to hide let foreign journalists in … It is beyond stupid that Hamas launched an attack on Israel when the people of Gaza are reliant upon food trucks coming in.. It is ridiculous to think that Hamas couldn't see this unfolding as it did, it must have been a deliberate act inflicted upon their own people and for what? And reportedly with 75% of Palestinians supporting the attacks and butchering. Israel owes them fuck all. This has been debunked more times than you and I have had hot dinners combined. Yet it continues to be trotted out. Side note, even if it was true, would that justify that mass slaughter of children and babies?Hamas should stop hiding behind children and babies, that may make a difference, Mrs x If I had a pound for every single "what about Hamas" or "It's Hamas's fault that the IDF are mass slaughtering kids". I'd be a wealthy man. Why play down the impact Hamas has and is having at every opportunity? They are very much an equal problem in this war, and yet it seems so difficult for many to recognise. " Why play down the impact the IDF has and is having at every opportunity? They are very much an equal problem in this war, and yet it seems so difficult for many to recognise. | |||
""It's like the concept of titration. The slow addition of something while carefully monitoring its effect. The idea being to go as far as possible while still having the apologists on side." What are you applying this too? Mrs x That could be a long list. Let's start with these two... The killing of about 1,300 people queuing up to get food. The building of ever more Israeli settlements in the West Bank." The IDF have said they killed people at a aid station but not in the figures you are quoting. It's not a deliberate ploy by the IDF and is an absolute tragedy, but like anything tragic in this conflict its been weaponised in the name of Hamas propaganda. So explain to me why you believe its a titration in this instance. Are you saying that the end game is the IDF will just line up everybody seeking aid, shoot them in the back of the head and watch them all fall into a huge grave they were made to dig? Are you saying thats their ultimate aim? As for the West Bank, I dont agree with the building of any illegal settlement. Mrs x | |||
"I’ll trust the likes of the international red cross, oxfam, Doctors Without Borders, and other NGO’s in regards to what the situation is like in Gaza.. and if they say the situation is bad, I’ll believe them So pre October 7th there was 120 trucks a day going in… since Israel renege on phase 2, they allowed in ZERO for 11 weeks… even the airdrops are equivalent to 8-10 trucks worth! So it’s galling to see the Israeli propaganda.. if you have nothing to hide let foreign journalists in … It is beyond stupid that Hamas launched an attack on Israel when the people of Gaza are reliant upon food trucks coming in.. It is ridiculous to think that Hamas couldn't see this unfolding as it did, it must have been a deliberate act inflicted upon their own people and for what? And reportedly with 75% of Palestinians supporting the attacks and butchering. Israel owes them fuck all. This has been debunked more times than you and I have had hot dinners combined. Yet it continues to be trotted out. Side note, even if it was true, would that justify that mass slaughter of children and babies?Hamas should stop hiding behind children and babies, that may make a difference, Mrs x If I had a pound for every single "what about Hamas" or "It's Hamas's fault that the IDF are mass slaughtering kids". I'd be a wealthy man.If October 7th hadn't happened, if Israeli civilians hadn't been murdered and rated, if babies hadn't been burnt alive, would the IDF have engaged Hamas like they have? Cant wait for the spin on this, I'll have to hold on tight this will be a very skinny ride im sure, Mrs x" I'll be completely honest. In my opinion, there is no valid excuse for mass slaughtering innocent people, men women and especially children. I find it baffling that some people are against it for some innocent people, yet enthused by it when it's a different group of innocent people. | |||
"I’ll trust the likes of the international red cross, oxfam, Doctors Without Borders, and other NGO’s in regards to what the situation is like in Gaza.. and if they say the situation is bad, I’ll believe them So pre October 7th there was 120 trucks a day going in… since Israel renege on phase 2, they allowed in ZERO for 11 weeks… even the airdrops are equivalent to 8-10 trucks worth! So it’s galling to see the Israeli propaganda.. if you have nothing to hide let foreign journalists in … It is beyond stupid that Hamas launched an attack on Israel when the people of Gaza are reliant upon food trucks coming in.. It is ridiculous to think that Hamas couldn't see this unfolding as it did, it must have been a deliberate act inflicted upon their own people and for what? And reportedly with 75% of Palestinians supporting the attacks and butchering. Israel owes them fuck all. This has been debunked more times than you and I have had hot dinners combined. Yet it continues to be trotted out. Side note, even if it was true, would that justify that mass slaughter of children and babies?Hamas should stop hiding behind children and babies, that may make a difference, Mrs x If I had a pound for every single "what about Hamas" or "It's Hamas's fault that the IDF are mass slaughtering kids". I'd be a wealthy man. Why play down the impact Hamas has and is having at every opportunity? They are very much an equal problem in this war, and yet it seems so difficult for many to recognise. Why play down the impact the IDF has and is having at every opportunity? They are very much an equal problem in this war, and yet it seems so difficult for many to recognise. " Didn't fancy answering what would have happened if the 7th October never happened then? Ok no problem, Mrs x | |||
"I’ll trust the likes of the international red cross, oxfam, Doctors Without Borders, and other NGO’s in regards to what the situation is like in Gaza.. and if they say the situation is bad, I’ll believe them So pre October 7th there was 120 trucks a day going in… since Israel renege on phase 2, they allowed in ZERO for 11 weeks… even the airdrops are equivalent to 8-10 trucks worth! So it’s galling to see the Israeli propaganda.. if you have nothing to hide let foreign journalists in … It is beyond stupid that Hamas launched an attack on Israel when the people of Gaza are reliant upon food trucks coming in.. It is ridiculous to think that Hamas couldn't see this unfolding as it did, it must have been a deliberate act inflicted upon their own people and for what? And reportedly with 75% of Palestinians supporting the attacks and butchering. Israel owes them fuck all. This has been debunked more times than you and I have had hot dinners combined. Yet it continues to be trotted out. Side note, even if it was true, would that justify that mass slaughter of children and babies?Hamas should stop hiding behind children and babies, that may make a difference, Mrs x If I had a pound for every single "what about Hamas" or "It's Hamas's fault that the IDF are mass slaughtering kids". I'd be a wealthy man.If October 7th hadn't happened, if Israeli civilians hadn't been murdered and rated, if babies hadn't been burnt alive, would the IDF have engaged Hamas like they have? Cant wait for the spin on this, I'll have to hold on tight this will be a very skinny ride im sure, Mrs x" it was probably just a matter of time with the savage and barbarous kahanists that occupy the likud cabinet. their support for the propogation of Nachala and Gush Emunim has created a muderous monster in the region that they cannot control | |||
"If October 7th hadn't happened, if Israeli civilians hadn't been murdered and rated, if babies hadn't been burnt alive, would the IDF have engaged Hamas like they have? Cant wait for the spin on this, I'll have to hold on tight this will be a very skinny ride im sure, Mrs x." The fact that you think that babies were burnt alive says a lot. One baby - Mila Cohen was shot dead in her mother's arms. Another was delivered post-mortem and died two days after. All the stories about 40 babies being beheaded, put in ovens etc have been shown to be false. That doesn't make what Hamas did anything over than a series of horrific crimes that we all rightly condemn. But you clearly aren't well informed. | |||
"I’ll trust the likes of the international red cross, oxfam, Doctors Without Borders, and other NGO’s in regards to what the situation is like in Gaza.. and if they say the situation is bad, I’ll believe them So pre October 7th there was 120 trucks a day going in… since Israel renege on phase 2, they allowed in ZERO for 11 weeks… even the airdrops are equivalent to 8-10 trucks worth! So it’s galling to see the Israeli propaganda.. if you have nothing to hide let foreign journalists in … It is beyond stupid that Hamas launched an attack on Israel when the people of Gaza are reliant upon food trucks coming in.. It is ridiculous to think that Hamas couldn't see this unfolding as it did, it must have been a deliberate act inflicted upon their own people and for what? And reportedly with 75% of Palestinians supporting the attacks and butchering. Israel owes them fuck all. This has been debunked more times than you and I have had hot dinners combined. Yet it continues to be trotted out. Side note, even if it was true, would that justify that mass slaughter of children and babies?Hamas should stop hiding behind children and babies, that may make a difference, Mrs x If I had a pound for every single "what about Hamas" or "It's Hamas's fault that the IDF are mass slaughtering kids". I'd be a wealthy man. Why play down the impact Hamas has and is having at every opportunity? They are very much an equal problem in this war, and yet it seems so difficult for many to recognise. Why play down the impact the IDF has and is having at every opportunity? They are very much an equal problem in this war, and yet it seems so difficult for many to recognise. Didn't fancy answering what would have happened if the 7th October never happened then? Ok no problem, Mrs x" It would not effect my opinion of innocent people being mass slaughtered. I'll quote myself in a previous reply to you for clarity "I'll be completely honest. In my opinion, there is no valid excuse for mass slaughtering innocent people, men women and especially children." | |||
"I’ll trust the likes of the international red cross, oxfam, Doctors Without Borders, and other NGO’s in regards to what the situation is like in Gaza.. and if they say the situation is bad, I’ll believe them So pre October 7th there was 120 trucks a day going in… since Israel renege on phase 2, they allowed in ZERO for 11 weeks… even the airdrops are equivalent to 8-10 trucks worth! So it’s galling to see the Israeli propaganda.. if you have nothing to hide let foreign journalists in … It is beyond stupid that Hamas launched an attack on Israel when the people of Gaza are reliant upon food trucks coming in.. It is ridiculous to think that Hamas couldn't see this unfolding as it did, it must have been a deliberate act inflicted upon their own people and for what? And reportedly with 75% of Palestinians supporting the attacks and butchering. Israel owes them fuck all. This has been debunked more times than you and I have had hot dinners combined. Yet it continues to be trotted out. Side note, even if it was true, would that justify that mass slaughter of children and babies?Hamas should stop hiding behind children and babies, that may make a difference, Mrs x If I had a pound for every single "what about Hamas" or "It's Hamas's fault that the IDF are mass slaughtering kids". I'd be a wealthy man. Why play down the impact Hamas has and is having at every opportunity? They are very much an equal problem in this war, and yet it seems so difficult for many to recognise. Why play down the impact the IDF has and is having at every opportunity? They are very much an equal problem in this war, and yet it seems so difficult for many to recognise. " I don't play down the impact of either side, I believe both share equal responsibility in war crimes, and barbarity. I have made that clear. I feel you have taken a side? | |||
"I’ll trust the likes of the international red cross, oxfam, Doctors Without Borders, and other NGO’s in regards to what the situation is like in Gaza.. and if they say the situation is bad, I’ll believe them So pre October 7th there was 120 trucks a day going in… since Israel renege on phase 2, they allowed in ZERO for 11 weeks… even the airdrops are equivalent to 8-10 trucks worth! So it’s galling to see the Israeli propaganda.. if you have nothing to hide let foreign journalists in … It is beyond stupid that Hamas launched an attack on Israel when the people of Gaza are reliant upon food trucks coming in.. It is ridiculous to think that Hamas couldn't see this unfolding as it did, it must have been a deliberate act inflicted upon their own people and for what? And reportedly with 75% of Palestinians supporting the attacks and butchering. Israel owes them fuck all. This has been debunked more times than you and I have had hot dinners combined. Yet it continues to be trotted out. Side note, even if it was true, would that justify that mass slaughter of children and babies?Hamas should stop hiding behind children and babies, that may make a difference, Mrs x If I had a pound for every single "what about Hamas" or "It's Hamas's fault that the IDF are mass slaughtering kids". I'd be a wealthy man. Why play down the impact Hamas has and is having at every opportunity? They are very much an equal problem in this war, and yet it seems so difficult for many to recognise. Why play down the impact the IDF has and is having at every opportunity? They are very much an equal problem in this war, and yet it seems so difficult for many to recognise. I don't play down the impact of either side, I believe both share equal responsibility in war crimes, and barbarity. I have made that clear. I feel you have taken a side?" Yes! I have extremely strongly taken a side. My side is innocent civilians, regardless of their nationality, ethnicity, religion. I am against the side what kills innocent people. I have said this many many many times. | |||
"I’ll trust the likes of the international red cross, oxfam, Doctors Without Borders, and other NGO’s in regards to what the situation is like in Gaza.. and if they say the situation is bad, I’ll believe them So pre October 7th there was 120 trucks a day going in… since Israel renege on phase 2, they allowed in ZERO for 11 weeks… even the airdrops are equivalent to 8-10 trucks worth! So it’s galling to see the Israeli propaganda.. if you have nothing to hide let foreign journalists in … It is beyond stupid that Hamas launched an attack on Israel when the people of Gaza are reliant upon food trucks coming in.. It is ridiculous to think that Hamas couldn't see this unfolding as it did, it must have been a deliberate act inflicted upon their own people and for what? And reportedly with 75% of Palestinians supporting the attacks and butchering. Israel owes them fuck all. This has been debunked more times than you and I have had hot dinners combined. Yet it continues to be trotted out. Side note, even if it was true, would that justify that mass slaughter of children and babies?Hamas should stop hiding behind children and babies, that may make a difference, Mrs x If I had a pound for every single "what about Hamas" or "It's Hamas's fault that the IDF are mass slaughtering kids". I'd be a wealthy man. Why play down the impact Hamas has and is having at every opportunity? They are very much an equal problem in this war, and yet it seems so difficult for many to recognise. Why play down the impact the IDF has and is having at every opportunity? They are very much an equal problem in this war, and yet it seems so difficult for many to recognise. I don't play down the impact of either side, I believe both share equal responsibility in war crimes, and barbarity. I have made that clear. I feel you have taken a side? Yes! I have extremely strongly taken a side. My side is innocent civilians, regardless of their nationality, ethnicity, religion. I am against the side what kills innocent people. I have said this many many many times. " In that case I would have hoped you were more evenly balanced in your criticism and be vocal about both sides, unless you think only Israel are killing innocent people? | |||
"The IDF have said they killed people at a aid station but not in the figures you are quoting. It's not a deliberate ploy by the IDF and is an absolute tragedy, but like anything tragic in this conflict its been weaponised in the name of Hamas propaganda. So explain to me why you believe its a titration in this instance. Are you saying that the end game is the IDF will just line up everybody seeking aid, shoot them in the back of the head and watch them all fall into a huge grave they were made to dig? Are you saying thats their ultimate aim? As for the West Bank, I dont agree with the building of any illegal settlement. Mrs x" So how many people do you think the IDF have killed seeking food? If I know where you stand on the data it might be easier to debate the facts. I'm sure that the Israeli government isn't intent on killing two million people. Even if they could get away with it I don't think may believe they really would. But I'm also sure that their aim is complete Israeli sovereignty over the entire area. The exact mechanisms for achieving this goal vary by place and time. It still looks like the intention is to ethnically cleanse Gaza, but I detect hesitation because the Israeli government can't figure out a way to do it. The intermediate step was to build a concentration camp (sorry "Humanitarian City") in Rafah but it looks like they've realised that the logistics of this are more tricky than first thought. I genuinely don't know what's going to happen next. As I've said before much depends on Trump and he is unpredicatable, shall we say. | |||
"I’ll trust the likes of the international red cross, oxfam, Doctors Without Borders, and other NGO’s in regards to what the situation is like in Gaza.. and if they say the situation is bad, I’ll believe them So pre October 7th there was 120 trucks a day going in… since Israel renege on phase 2, they allowed in ZERO for 11 weeks… even the airdrops are equivalent to 8-10 trucks worth! So it’s galling to see the Israeli propaganda.. if you have nothing to hide let foreign journalists in … It is beyond stupid that Hamas launched an attack on Israel when the people of Gaza are reliant upon food trucks coming in.. It is ridiculous to think that Hamas couldn't see this unfolding as it did, it must have been a deliberate act inflicted upon their own people and for what? And reportedly with 75% of Palestinians supporting the attacks and butchering. Israel owes them fuck all. This has been debunked more times than you and I have had hot dinners combined. Yet it continues to be trotted out. Side note, even if it was true, would that justify that mass slaughter of children and babies?Hamas should stop hiding behind children and babies, that may make a difference, Mrs x If I had a pound for every single "what about Hamas" or "It's Hamas's fault that the IDF are mass slaughtering kids". I'd be a wealthy man. Why play down the impact Hamas has and is having at every opportunity? They are very much an equal problem in this war, and yet it seems so difficult for many to recognise. Why play down the impact the IDF has and is having at every opportunity? They are very much an equal problem in this war, and yet it seems so difficult for many to recognise. I don't play down the impact of either side, I believe both share equal responsibility in war crimes, and barbarity. I have made that clear. I feel you have taken a side? Yes! I have extremely strongly taken a side. My side is innocent civilians, regardless of their nationality, ethnicity, religion. I am against the side what kills innocent people. I have said this many many many times. In that case I would have hoped you were more evenly balanced in your criticism and be vocal about both sides, unless you think only Israel are killing innocent people? " I've been very clear in my criticism of the IDF, not of Israel. And currently, the IDF are committing what are most likely war crimes. Our government are supporting by providing F-35 or F-15 (I forget which) parts to enable them to continue the slaughter. And I am frustrated with the lack of action from the government, especially on the problems getting aid into Gaza. Our government has rightly condemned Hamas, and doesn't provide military assistance to them. So what is there to say? | |||
"If October 7th hadn't happened, if Israeli civilians hadn't been murdered and rated, if babies hadn't been burnt alive, would the IDF have engaged Hamas like they have? Cant wait for the spin on this, I'll have to hold on tight this will be a very skinny ride im sure, Mrs x. The fact that you think that babies were burnt alive says a lot. One baby - Mila Cohen was shot dead in her mother's arms. Another was delivered post-mortem and died two days after. All the stories about 40 babies being beheaded, put in ovens etc have been shown to be false. That doesn't make what Hamas did anything over than a series of horrific crimes that we all rightly condemn. But you clearly aren't well informed." The burnt baby was absolutely true. Confirmed by a leading digital media company and reported by France 24. The guy who digital altered the image, swapping out the poor burnt baby for the image of a cuddly puppy, before posting it on X, even admitted that he did that. He took an horrendous image and altered it for his own amusement. That baby was burnt alive, fact. Seems someone is not well informed. There's a reason, unlike yourself, that I did not mention beheaded babies as im aware there's no substance in this. So if its not factual I wouldn't mention it. You on the other hand would, because you need to put words in my mouth you can come up with and argument for, hence mentioning beheaded babies. I never mentioned this but you did, seems tge practice of misinformation and its use has passed on from Hamas itself to its supporters. Good effort, poor execution unlike those on October 7th, Mrs x | |||
"If October 7th hadn't happened, if Israeli civilians hadn't been murdered and rated, if babies hadn't been burnt alive, would the IDF have engaged Hamas like they have? Cant wait for the spin on this, I'll have to hold on tight this will be a very skinny ride im sure, Mrs x. The fact that you think that babies were burnt alive says a lot. One baby - Mila Cohen was shot dead in her mother's arms. Another was delivered post-mortem and died two days after. All the stories about 40 babies being beheaded, put in ovens etc have been shown to be false. That doesn't make what Hamas did anything over than a series of horrific crimes that we all rightly condemn. But you clearly aren't well informed.The burnt baby was absolutely true. Confirmed by a leading digital media company and reported by France 24. The guy who digital altered the image, swapping out the poor burnt baby for the image of a cuddly puppy, before posting it on X, even admitted that he did that. He took an horrendous image and altered it for his own amusement. That baby was burnt alive, fact. Seems someone is not well informed. There's a reason, unlike yourself, that I did not mention beheaded babies as im aware there's no substance in this. So if its not factual I wouldn't mention it. You on the other hand would, because you need to put words in my mouth you can come up with and argument for, hence mentioning beheaded babies. I never mentioned this but you did, seems tge practice of misinformation and its use has passed on from Hamas itself to its supporters. Good effort, poor execution unlike those on October 7th, Mrs x" https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/how-the-killing-of-an-18monthold-boy-in-the-west-bank-exposed-the-israeli-authorities-failure-to-stem-tide-of-jewish-extremists-10431640.html | |||
"I’ll trust the likes of the international red cross, oxfam, Doctors Without Borders, and other NGO’s in regards to what the situation is like in Gaza.. and if they say the situation is bad, I’ll believe them So pre October 7th there was 120 trucks a day going in… since Israel renege on phase 2, they allowed in ZERO for 11 weeks… even the airdrops are equivalent to 8-10 trucks worth! So it’s galling to see the Israeli propaganda.. if you have nothing to hide let foreign journalists in … It is beyond stupid that Hamas launched an attack on Israel when the people of Gaza are reliant upon food trucks coming in.. It is ridiculous to think that Hamas couldn't see this unfolding as it did, it must have been a deliberate act inflicted upon their own people and for what? And reportedly with 75% of Palestinians supporting the attacks and butchering. Israel owes them fuck all. This has been debunked more times than you and I have had hot dinners combined. Yet it continues to be trotted out. Side note, even if it was true, would that justify that mass slaughter of children and babies?Hamas should stop hiding behind children and babies, that may make a difference, Mrs x If I had a pound for every single "what about Hamas" or "It's Hamas's fault that the IDF are mass slaughtering kids". I'd be a wealthy man. Why play down the impact Hamas has and is having at every opportunity? They are very much an equal problem in this war, and yet it seems so difficult for many to recognise. Why play down the impact the IDF has and is having at every opportunity? They are very much an equal problem in this war, and yet it seems so difficult for many to recognise. I don't play down the impact of either side, I believe both share equal responsibility in war crimes, and barbarity. I have made that clear. I feel you have taken a side? Yes! I have extremely strongly taken a side. My side is innocent civilians, regardless of their nationality, ethnicity, religion. I am against the side what kills innocent people. I have said this many many many times. In that case I would have hoped you were more evenly balanced in your criticism and be vocal about both sides, unless you think only Israel are killing innocent people? I've been very clear in my criticism of the IDF, not of Israel. And currently, the IDF are committing what are most likely war crimes. Our government are supporting by providing F-35 or F-15 (I forget which) parts to enable them to continue the slaughter. And I am frustrated with the lack of action from the government, especially on the problems getting aid into Gaza. Our government has rightly condemned Hamas, and doesn't provide military assistance to them. So what is there to say? " You are side stepping your condemnation of Hamas by using the government as a proxy. Innocent civilians are being harmed by both sides, IDF and Hamas. | |||
"The burnt baby was absolutely true. Confirmed by a leading digital media company and reported by France 24. The guy who digital altered the image, swapping out the poor burnt baby for the image of a cuddly puppy, before posting it on X, even admitted that he did that. He took an horrendous image and altered it for his own amusement. That baby was burnt alive, fact. Seems someone is not well informed. There's a reason, unlike yourself, that I did not mention beheaded babies as im aware there's no substance in this. So if its not factual I wouldn't mention it. You on the other hand would, because you need to put words in my mouth you can come up with and argument for, hence mentioning beheaded babies. I never mentioned this but you did, seems tge practice of misinformation and its use has passed on from Hamas itself to its supporters. Good effort, poor execution unlike those on October 7th, Mrs x" Maybe you don't want to give a number for those killed by the IDF while seeking food? You said "if babies hadn't been burnt alive". Now it's one baby. And I guess you don't know that the story has been debunked. Because guess what nobody has said who this supposed baby was. Don't you think someone might noticed a missing baby? I wasn't putting words in your mouth I was pointing out that all the lies have been shown to be just that, lies. Claiming I'm an Hamas supporter just makes you look foolish. | |||
" Side note, even if it was true, would that justify that mass slaughter of children and babies?" You use the term "mass slaughter" quite frequently. It is a very loaded term. In this context, how do you define "mass slaughter". Is it simple "the killing of many people", or something more? | |||
"The IDF have said they killed people at a aid station but not in the figures you are quoting. It's not a deliberate ploy by the IDF and is an absolute tragedy, but like anything tragic in this conflict its been weaponised in the name of Hamas propaganda. So explain to me why you believe its a titration in this instance. Are you saying that the end game is the IDF will just line up everybody seeking aid, shoot them in the back of the head and watch them all fall into a huge grave they were made to dig? Are you saying thats their ultimate aim? As for the West Bank, I dont agree with the building of any illegal settlement. Mrs x So how many people do you think the IDF have killed seeking food? If I know where you stand on the data it might be easier to debate the facts. I'm sure that the Israeli government isn't intent on killing two million people. Even if they could get away with it I don't think may believe they really would. But I'm also sure that their aim is complete Israeli sovereignty over the entire area. The exact mechanisms for achieving this goal vary by place and time. It still looks like the intention is to ethnically cleanse Gaza, but I detect hesitation because the Israeli government can't figure out a way to do it. The intermediate step was to build a concentration camp (sorry "Humanitarian City") in Rafah but it looks like they've realised that the logistics of this are more tricky than first thought. I genuinely don't know what's going to happen next. As I've said before much depends on Trump and he is unpredicatable, shall we say." You have quite a mixed message. So is it genocidebor ethnic cleansing that the IDF are committing right now? I've stated why I dont think its genocide. Aside from the numbers, population growth is not normally connected with genocide there's also the issue of intent. An enemy who wants to commit genocide doesn't normally warn those in potential danger that an attack is imminent, strange behaviour from a genocidal force dont you think? As for ethnic cleansing, how is that occurring? I agree that the population has been moved around Gaza but thats because the IDF have given advance warnings, allowing the population to move. So if we agree there's no movement out of Haza at present, where is the IDF 'cleansing' the Palestinians to? I can tell you about true ethnic cleansing but it involve the Jews. In 1948, virtually every Arab state cleansed their Jewish population. So places like Iran and Egypt, which had 100,000s of Jews now had almost 0 overnight. This happened in Iraq, Iran, Jordan, Syria, Libya, Saudi, Morocco, most of the Arab States. Now thats ethnic cleansing. So how many Palestinians have been kicked out of Gaza right now? As for you description of a proposed plan as a concentration camp, why would you choose to use such emotive and insulting language? Showing your true colours perhaps. Finally about the sovereignty issue. You do know Haza was controlled by Egypt until 1967. Israel could then have kept hold of it but chose to relinquish it. The Idf actual dragged out the last Israeli settlers in 2005. Strange that they want to take control of it again now. The Israeli government actual spent billions building an underground barrier to stop illegal entry, by tunnel, of Gazans into Israel. Doesn't look like a good use of money if they really wanted to go back into Gaza. Mrs x | |||
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"The burnt baby was absolutely true. Confirmed by a leading digital media company and reported by France 24. The guy who digital altered the image, swapping out the poor burnt baby for the image of a cuddly puppy, before posting it on X, even admitted that he did that. He took an horrendous image and altered it for his own amusement. That baby was burnt alive, fact. Seems someone is not well informed. There's a reason, unlike yourself, that I did not mention beheaded babies as im aware there's no substance in this. So if its not factual I wouldn't mention it. You on the other hand would, because you need to put words in my mouth you can come up with and argument for, hence mentioning beheaded babies. I never mentioned this but you did, seems tge practice of misinformation and its use has passed on from Hamas itself to its supporters. Good effort, poor execution unlike those on October 7th, Mrs x Maybe you don't want to give a number for those killed by the IDF while seeking food? You said "if babies hadn't been burnt alive". Now it's one baby. And I guess you don't know that the story has been debunked. Because guess what nobody has said who this supposed baby was. Don't you think someone might noticed a missing baby? I wasn't putting words in your mouth I was pointing out that all the lies have been shown to be just that, lies. Claiming I'm an Hamas supporter just makes you look foolish. " As for numbers I dont give them because the only numbers given are by Hamas. You choose to believe this in its entirety despite their figures being disputed and their tactics of lying being exposed time and again. As for the burnt baby it has most definitely not been debunked. As for not having the name of this baby, you use this to question the validity of my claim. So until such time as you produce the 1300 names of those shot at aid centres im going to question the validity of the figures you quote. Cant have cake and eat it springs to mind. I have noticed that even though I have mentioned a child's name, previously on this thread about the starving Palestinian boy, you have stayed quite quiet on this. This is an example of Hamas lying to suit their aims but nothing from you, silence. It's the same when they used pics of starving kids previously, claiming it was Israels fault when in fact that image was from kids starving in Yemen. And let's not forget tge awfully harrowing video of a small girl, sobbing on her mothers freshly filled grave, another victim from Gaza, Hamas claimed. Yet in reality it was from a clip of a young girl grieving over her dead mother who had died in Iran of complications following Covid years earlier. But as for the figures, I think the most damning was Hamass inclusion of 5,000 terminal cancer sufferers, as being victims of the conflict. And its these people, you take your data from. And as for you being a Hamas supporter, your use of the phrase 'concentration camp' did yourself no favours. You knew what you were doing as you corrected yourself, it was crass at best. Mrs x | |||
" I've been very clear in my criticism of the IDF, not of Israel. " Interesting. The IDF does not want to be in Gaza anymore (from top to bottom). Right now, the Israeli cabinet is meeting to discuss a full-scale takeover of Gaza. The heads of the IDF may well resign in protest. The IDF is a made up of conscripts and reservists (ex conscripts), representing a pretty broad cross-section of Israeli society, Arab, Jew, Druze, atheist, Christian, religious, secular. When you say "the IDF", what do you actually mean? | |||
"If October 7th hadn't happened, if Israeli civilians hadn't been murdered and rated, if babies hadn't been burnt alive, would the IDF have engaged Hamas like they have? Cant wait for the spin on this, I'll have to hold on tight this will be a very skinny ride im sure, Mrs x. The fact that you think that babies were burnt alive says a lot. One baby - Mila Cohen was shot dead in her mother's arms. Another was delivered post-mortem and died two days after. All the stories about 40 babies being beheaded, put in ovens etc have been shown to be false. That doesn't make what Hamas did anything over than a series of horrific crimes that we all rightly condemn. But you clearly aren't well informed.The burnt baby was absolutely true. Confirmed by a leading digital media company and reported by France 24. The guy who digital altered the image, swapping out the poor burnt baby for the image of a cuddly puppy, before posting it on X, even admitted that he did that. He took an horrendous image and altered it for his own amusement. That baby was burnt alive, fact. Seems someone is not well informed. There's a reason, unlike yourself, that I did not mention beheaded babies as im aware there's no substance in this. So if its not factual I wouldn't mention it. You on the other hand would, because you need to put words in my mouth you can come up with and argument for, hence mentioning beheaded babies. I never mentioned this but you did, seems tge practice of misinformation and its use has passed on from Hamas itself to its supporters. Good effort, poor execution unlike those on October 7th, Mrs x https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/how-the-killing-of-an-18monthold-boy-in-the-west-bank-exposed-the-israeli-authorities-failure-to-stem-tide-of-jewish-extremists-10431640.html" Thats an absolutely horrible thing to happen to anyone. Those murderous bustards should have the full weight of the law come down on them in the harshest possible way. Arson is an abhorrent crime committed by cowardly individuals. A truly terrible act, Mrs x | |||
"You have quite a mixed message." That's because you seem to see things in unipolar terms and I'm trying to work my way through thinking about a complex situation. "So is it genocidebor ethnic cleansing that the IDF are committing right now?" I guess it depends on which Israeli government official you listen to and your opinion of what they say. "I've stated why I dont think its genocide. Aside from the numbers, population growth is not normally connected with genocide there's also the issue of intent. An enemy who wants to commit genocide doesn't normally warn those in potential danger that an attack is imminent, strange behaviour from a genocidal force dont you think?" I'm resisting calling it genocide, but many genocide scholars are now declaring it to be one. If you look at the definition, genocide isn't about just the numbers of people. I think it's a poorly defined concept so I leave it to scholars to decide what is and isn't genocide. "As for ethnic cleansing, how is that occurring? I agree that the population has been moved around Gaza but thats because the IDF have given advance warnings, allowing the population to move." I'm going by the statements made by members of the Israeli government. Plus it looks very much like the intention is to make it impossible to survive in Gaza. "So if we agree there's no movement out of Haza at present, where is the IDF 'cleansing' the Palestinians to?" That's Netanyahu's problem. I think he was hoping that Trump would have got Egypt to agree to a deal by now but it's not happened, AFAIK. "I can tell you about true ethnic cleansing but it involve the Jews. In 1948, virtually every Arab state cleansed their Jewish population. So places like Iran and Egypt, which had 100,000s of Jews now had almost 0 overnight. This happened in Iraq, Iran, Jordan, Syria, Libya, Saudi, Morocco, most of the Arab States. Now thats ethnic cleansing." I agree that was ethnic cleansing. But that doesn't justify doing the same thing again to other people. "So how many Palestinians have been kicked out of Gaza right now?" None, although about 60,000 have been killed. "As for you description of a proposed plan as a concentration camp, why would you choose to use such emotive and insulting language? Showing your true colours perhaps." The Britsish invented concentration camps in the Boer War. It's the standard name for such places, but if you like I'll call it a "Humanitarian City" instead. "Finally about the sovereignty issue. You do know Haza was controlled by Egypt until 1967. Israel could then have kept hold of it but chose to relinquish it. The Idf actual dragged out the last Israeli settlers in 2005. Strange that they want to take control of it again now. The Israeli government actual spent billions building an underground barrier to stop illegal entry, by tunnel, of Gazans into Israel. Doesn't look like a good use of money if they really wanted to go back into Gaza. Mrs x" The current Israeli government want sovereignty over the entire area. That's why when Netanyahu shows a map of Israel it includes Gaza and the West Bank, It's a key part of the Likud political philosophy - "between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty". | |||
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"I’ll trust the likes of the international red cross, oxfam, Doctors Without Borders, and other NGO’s in regards to what the situation is like in Gaza.. and if they say the situation is bad, I’ll believe them So pre October 7th there was 120 trucks a day going in… since Israel renege on phase 2, they allowed in ZERO for 11 weeks… even the airdrops are equivalent to 8-10 trucks worth! So it’s galling to see the Israeli propaganda.. if you have nothing to hide let foreign journalists in … It is beyond stupid that Hamas launched an attack on Israel when the people of Gaza are reliant upon food trucks coming in.. It is ridiculous to think that Hamas couldn't see this unfolding as it did, it must have been a deliberate act inflicted upon their own people and for what? And reportedly with 75% of Palestinians supporting the attacks and butchering. Israel owes them fuck all. This has been debunked more times than you and I have had hot dinners combined. Yet it continues to be trotted out. Side note, even if it was true, would that justify that mass slaughter of children and babies?Hamas should stop hiding behind children and babies, that may make a difference, Mrs x If I had a pound for every single "what about Hamas" or "It's Hamas's fault that the IDF are mass slaughtering kids". I'd be a wealthy man. Why play down the impact Hamas has and is having at every opportunity? They are very much an equal problem in this war, and yet it seems so difficult for many to recognise. Why play down the impact the IDF has and is having at every opportunity? They are very much an equal problem in this war, and yet it seems so difficult for many to recognise. I don't play down the impact of either side, I believe both share equal responsibility in war crimes, and barbarity. I have made that clear. I feel you have taken a side? Yes! I have extremely strongly taken a side. My side is innocent civilians, regardless of their nationality, ethnicity, religion. I am against the side what kills innocent people. I have said this many many many times. In that case I would have hoped you were more evenly balanced in your criticism and be vocal about both sides, unless you think only Israel are killing innocent people? I've been very clear in my criticism of the IDF, not of Israel. And currently, the IDF are committing what are most likely war crimes. Our government are supporting by providing F-35 or F-15 (I forget which) parts to enable them to continue the slaughter. And I am frustrated with the lack of action from the government, especially on the problems getting aid into Gaza. Our government has rightly condemned Hamas, and doesn't provide military assistance to them. So what is there to say? You are side stepping your condemnation of Hamas by using the government as a proxy. Innocent civilians are being harmed by both sides, IDF and Hamas." I don't understand the desperation to have people add the side note about Hamas, when they've been universally condemned, whenever the situation is being discussed. It comes across as an epic whatabout. | |||
" I've been very clear in my criticism of the IDF, not of Israel. Interesting. The IDF does not want to be in Gaza anymore (from top to bottom). Right now, the Israeli cabinet is meeting to discuss a full-scale takeover of Gaza. The heads of the IDF may well resign in protest. The IDF is a made up of conscripts and reservists (ex conscripts), representing a pretty broad cross-section of Israeli society, Arab, Jew, Druze, atheist, Christian, religious, secular. When you say "the IDF", what do you actually mean?" I mean the IDF. Hope that clarifies. | |||
" I've been very clear in my criticism of the IDF, not of Israel. Interesting. The IDF does not want to be in Gaza anymore (from top to bottom). Right now, the Israeli cabinet is meeting to discuss a full-scale takeover of Gaza. The heads of the IDF may well resign in protest. The IDF is a made up of conscripts and reservists (ex conscripts), representing a pretty broad cross-section of Israeli society, Arab, Jew, Druze, atheist, Christian, religious, secular. When you say "the IDF", what do you actually mean? I mean the IDF. Hope that clarifies. " It actually, really, does. | |||
"As for numbers I dont give them because the only numbers given are by Hamas. You choose to believe this in its entirety despite their figures being disputed and their tactics of lying being exposed time and again. As for the burnt baby it has most definitely not been debunked. As for not having the name of this baby, you use this to question the validity of my claim. So until such time as you produce the 1300 names of those shot at aid centres im going to question the validity of the figures you quote. Cant have cake and eat it springs to mind. I have noticed that even though I have mentioned a child's name, previously on this thread about the starving Palestinian boy, you have stayed quite quiet on this. This is an example of Hamas lying to suit their aims but nothing from you, silence. It's the same when they used pics of starving kids previously, claiming it was Israels fault when in fact that image was from kids starving in Yemen. And let's not forget tge awfully harrowing video of a small girl, sobbing on her mothers freshly filled grave, another victim from Gaza, Hamas claimed. Yet in reality it was from a clip of a young girl grieving over her dead mother who had died in Iran of complications following Covid years earlier. But as for the figures, I think the most damning was Hamass inclusion of 5,000 terminal cancer sufferers, as being victims of the conflict. And its these people, you take your data from. And as for you being a Hamas supporter, your use of the phrase 'concentration camp' did yourself no favours. You knew what you were doing as you corrected yourself, it was crass at best. Mrs x" It looks like you'll continue to apologise for the Israeli government forever. It's tiresome talking to you but I try to make the effort for other people reading our exchange. I'll just touch on things now as I have other things to do but I may return to your posts later and comb through anything I've missed. The claim that Hamas exaggerate numbers doesn't stand up. In past conflicts the Israeli government said they were wrong and then later everyone saw that they were more or less accurate. If anything the current numbers are underestimates as they are only counting the identifiable dead. You can't name one baby supposedly killed in 2023. If you read the news then you'll see the names of some of those people recently killed by the IDF queueing for food at GHF centes. It will take a while but eventually all the dead will be tallied with their full names, DOB and Israeil identification numbers. The exact numbers are difficult to know. I'm going on published estimates for now. That boy you are talking about is just one instance among many. If you can't believe the photos and videos shown on TV and online or the accounts from various NGOs then I'm not going to be able to persuade you. There's not much in the way of oncology care in Gaza at the moment. Anyone with cancer will die sooner than they would if there was adequate medical provision. I addressed the concentration camp term in my last post. It's not only me who has used the term but I'll stick to "humanitarian city" in future. | |||
"As for numbers I dont give them because the only numbers given are by Hamas. You choose to believe this in its entirety despite their figures being disputed and their tactics of lying being exposed time and again. As for the burnt baby it has most definitely not been debunked. As for not having the name of this baby, you use this to question the validity of my claim. So until such time as you produce the 1300 names of those shot at aid centres im going to question the validity of the figures you quote. Cant have cake and eat it springs to mind. I have noticed that even though I have mentioned a child's name, previously on this thread about the starving Palestinian boy, you have stayed quite quiet on this. This is an example of Hamas lying to suit their aims but nothing from you, silence. It's the same when they used pics of starving kids previously, claiming it was Israels fault when in fact that image was from kids starving in Yemen. And let's not forget tge awfully harrowing video of a small girl, sobbing on her mothers freshly filled grave, another victim from Gaza, Hamas claimed. Yet in reality it was from a clip of a young girl grieving over her dead mother who had died in Iran of complications following Covid years earlier. But as for the figures, I think the most damning was Hamass inclusion of 5,000 terminal cancer sufferers, as being victims of the conflict. And its these people, you take your data from. And as for you being a Hamas supporter, your use of the phrase 'concentration camp' did yourself no favours. You knew what you were doing as you corrected yourself, it was crass at best. Mrs x It looks like you'll continue to apologise for the Israeli government forever. It's tiresome talking to you but I try to make the effort for other people reading our exchange. I'll just touch on things now as I have other things to do but I may return to your posts later and comb through anything I've missed. The claim that Hamas exaggerate numbers doesn't stand up. In past conflicts the Israeli government said they were wrong and then later everyone saw that they were more or less accurate. If anything the current numbers are underestimates as they are only counting the identifiable dead. You can't name one baby supposedly killed in 2023. If you read the news then you'll see the names of some of those people recently killed by the IDF queueing for food at GHF centes. It will take a while but eventually all the dead will be tallied with their full names, DOB and Israeil identification numbers. The exact numbers are difficult to know. I'm going on published estimates for now. That boy you are talking about is just one instance among many. If you can't believe the photos and videos shown on TV and online or the accounts from various NGOs then I'm not going to be able to persuade you. There's not much in the way of oncology care in Gaza at the moment. Anyone with cancer will die sooner than they would if there was adequate medical provision. I addressed the concentration camp term in my last post. It's not only me who has used the term but I'll stick to "humanitarian city" in future. " You make me laugh. You claim Hamas dont make figures up and that they are mainly accurate. This is despite Hamas blatantly adding 5,000 terminal cancer patients to the figures of those killed in the conflict. Now whilst I agree there deaths may have been accelerated due to the circumstances of the war they were no way casualties of it. Maybe we have differences in what constitutes accuracy in recording figures. I won't point out how Hamas altered ages and sexes to suit their narrative of the IDF killing woman and children but they did do that. I did not give one example of Hamas using media which is not true as an example of them lying to suit their aims. I have three, each of them easily verified by a simple Google search. In fact Hamas do this so often there's a whole genre of clips dedicated to paramedic heroes. These clips show paramedics driving to hospitals with 'dead' babies or infants on their laps, as they drive, and these paramedics are giving CPR whilst driving. So why doesn't anyone question who the fuck is filming and if these poor infants needed CPR why was the driver giving it and not the person filming it. Is it because these kids are more useful as a propaganda purpose? Come on, think for yourselves, stop being a tool for terrorist propaganda. Mrs x | |||
"I’ll trust the likes of the international red cross, oxfam, Doctors Without Borders, and other NGO’s in regards to what the situation is like in Gaza.. and if they say the situation is bad, I’ll believe them So pre October 7th there was 120 trucks a day going in… since Israel renege on phase 2, they allowed in ZERO for 11 weeks… even the airdrops are equivalent to 8-10 trucks worth! So it’s galling to see the Israeli propaganda.. if you have nothing to hide let foreign journalists in … It is beyond stupid that Hamas launched an attack on Israel when the people of Gaza are reliant upon food trucks coming in.. It is ridiculous to think that Hamas couldn't see this unfolding as it did, it must have been a deliberate act inflicted upon their own people and for what? And reportedly with 75% of Palestinians supporting the attacks and butchering. Israel owes them fuck all. This has been debunked more times than you and I have had hot dinners combined. Yet it continues to be trotted out. Side note, even if it was true, would that justify that mass slaughter of children and babies?Hamas should stop hiding behind children and babies, that may make a difference, Mrs x If I had a pound for every single "what about Hamas" or "It's Hamas's fault that the IDF are mass slaughtering kids". I'd be a wealthy man. Why play down the impact Hamas has and is having at every opportunity? They are very much an equal problem in this war, and yet it seems so difficult for many to recognise. Why play down the impact the IDF has and is having at every opportunity? They are very much an equal problem in this war, and yet it seems so difficult for many to recognise. I don't play down the impact of either side, I believe both share equal responsibility in war crimes, and barbarity. I have made that clear. I feel you have taken a side? Yes! I have extremely strongly taken a side. My side is innocent civilians, regardless of their nationality, ethnicity, religion. I am against the side what kills innocent people. I have said this many many many times. In that case I would have hoped you were more evenly balanced in your criticism and be vocal about both sides, unless you think only Israel are killing innocent people? I've been very clear in my criticism of the IDF, not of Israel. And currently, the IDF are committing what are most likely war crimes. Our government are supporting by providing F-35 or F-15 (I forget which) parts to enable them to continue the slaughter. And I am frustrated with the lack of action from the government, especially on the problems getting aid into Gaza. Our government has rightly condemned Hamas, and doesn't provide military assistance to them. So what is there to say? You are side stepping your condemnation of Hamas by using the government as a proxy. Innocent civilians are being harmed by both sides, IDF and Hamas. I don't understand the desperation to have people add the side note about Hamas, when they've been universally condemned, whenever the situation is being discussed. It comes across as an epic whatabout." Side note, Hamas? Are you for real? Can we say the same about Israel, and their approach which has been condemned universally, are they a side note too? I'm really struggling to make sense of your opinions, maybe that is how it suits. | |||
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"I’ll trust the likes of the international red cross, oxfam, Doctors Without Borders, and other NGO’s in regards to what the situation is like in Gaza.. and if they say the situation is bad, I’ll believe them So pre October 7th there was 120 trucks a day going in… since Israel renege on phase 2, they allowed in ZERO for 11 weeks… even the airdrops are equivalent to 8-10 trucks worth! So it’s galling to see the Israeli propaganda.. if you have nothing to hide let foreign journalists in … It is beyond stupid that Hamas launched an attack on Israel when the people of Gaza are reliant upon food trucks coming in.. It is ridiculous to think that Hamas couldn't see this unfolding as it did, it must have been a deliberate act inflicted upon their own people and for what? And reportedly with 75% of Palestinians supporting the attacks and butchering. Israel owes them fuck all. This has been debunked more times than you and I have had hot dinners combined. Yet it continues to be trotted out. Side note, even if it was true, would that justify that mass slaughter of children and babies?Hamas should stop hiding behind children and babies, that may make a difference, Mrs x If I had a pound for every single "what about Hamas" or "It's Hamas's fault that the IDF are mass slaughtering kids". I'd be a wealthy man. Why play down the impact Hamas has and is having at every opportunity? They are very much an equal problem in this war, and yet it seems so difficult for many to recognise. Why play down the impact the IDF has and is having at every opportunity? They are very much an equal problem in this war, and yet it seems so difficult for many to recognise. I don't play down the impact of either side, I believe both share equal responsibility in war crimes, and barbarity. I have made that clear. I feel you have taken a side? Yes! I have extremely strongly taken a side. My side is innocent civilians, regardless of their nationality, ethnicity, religion. I am against the side what kills innocent people. I have said this many many many times. In that case I would have hoped you were more evenly balanced in your criticism and be vocal about both sides, unless you think only Israel are killing innocent people? I've been very clear in my criticism of the IDF, not of Israel. And currently, the IDF are committing what are most likely war crimes. Our government are supporting by providing F-35 or F-15 (I forget which) parts to enable them to continue the slaughter. And I am frustrated with the lack of action from the government, especially on the problems getting aid into Gaza. Our government has rightly condemned Hamas, and doesn't provide military assistance to them. So what is there to say? You are side stepping your condemnation of Hamas by using the government as a proxy. Innocent civilians are being harmed by both sides, IDF and Hamas. I don't understand the desperation to have people add the side note about Hamas, when they've been universally condemned, whenever the situation is being discussed. It comes across as an epic whatabout. Side note, Hamas? Are you for real? Can we say the same about Israel, and their approach which has been condemned universally, are they a side note too? " Then you're clearly not reading this or any other threads on the subject. Lots of people on here are clearly not condemning anyone except Hamas. " I'm really struggling to make sense of your opinions, maybe that is how it suits." I don't know how to make it any clearer. The IDF have responsibility for their own actions. That's it. I don't feel the need, when discussing say bombs dropped onto Palestinian kids, to add an "also Hamas are bad" every single time. It's bizarre to want people to do that. | |||
"I’ll trust the likes of the international red cross, oxfam, Doctors Without Borders, and other NGO’s in regards to what the situation is like in Gaza.. and if they say the situation is bad, I’ll believe them So pre October 7th there was 120 trucks a day going in… since Israel renege on phase 2, they allowed in ZERO for 11 weeks… even the airdrops are equivalent to 8-10 trucks worth! So it’s galling to see the Israeli propaganda.. if you have nothing to hide let foreign journalists in … It is beyond stupid that Hamas launched an attack on Israel when the people of Gaza are reliant upon food trucks coming in.. It is ridiculous to think that Hamas couldn't see this unfolding as it did, it must have been a deliberate act inflicted upon their own people and for what? And reportedly with 75% of Palestinians supporting the attacks and butchering. Israel owes them fuck all. This has been debunked more times than you and I have had hot dinners combined. Yet it continues to be trotted out. Side note, even if it was true, would that justify that mass slaughter of children and babies?Hamas should stop hiding behind children and babies, that may make a difference, Mrs x If I had a pound for every single "what about Hamas" or "It's Hamas's fault that the IDF are mass slaughtering kids". I'd be a wealthy man. Why play down the impact Hamas has and is having at every opportunity? They are very much an equal problem in this war, and yet it seems so difficult for many to recognise. Why play down the impact the IDF has and is having at every opportunity? They are very much an equal problem in this war, and yet it seems so difficult for many to recognise. I don't play down the impact of either side, I believe both share equal responsibility in war crimes, and barbarity. I have made that clear. I feel you have taken a side? Yes! I have extremely strongly taken a side. My side is innocent civilians, regardless of their nationality, ethnicity, religion. I am against the side what kills innocent people. I have said this many many many times. In that case I would have hoped you were more evenly balanced in your criticism and be vocal about both sides, unless you think only Israel are killing innocent people? I've been very clear in my criticism of the IDF, not of Israel. And currently, the IDF are committing what are most likely war crimes. Our government are supporting by providing F-35 or F-15 (I forget which) parts to enable them to continue the slaughter. And I am frustrated with the lack of action from the government, especially on the problems getting aid into Gaza. Our government has rightly condemned Hamas, and doesn't provide military assistance to them. So what is there to say? You are side stepping your condemnation of Hamas by using the government as a proxy. Innocent civilians are being harmed by both sides, IDF and Hamas. I don't understand the desperation to have people add the side note about Hamas, when they've been universally condemned, whenever the situation is being discussed. It comes across as an epic whatabout. Side note, Hamas? Are you for real? Can we say the same about Israel, and their approach which has been condemned universally, are they a side note too? Then you're clearly not reading this or any other threads on the subject. Lots of people on here are clearly not condemning anyone except Hamas. I'm really struggling to make sense of your opinions, maybe that is how it suits. I don't know how to make it any clearer. The IDF have responsibility for their own actions. That's it. I don't feel the need, when discussing say bombs dropped onto Palestinian kids, to add an "also Hamas are bad" every single time. It's bizarre to want people to do that. " Who has asked you to do that? The only question being asked of you is can you see that both sides are equally to blame for the killing of innocent people every day the war continues. If that is accepted, there should be as much public pressure applied to Hamas as there is to Israel to stop the war. This seems harder than it should be to understand. If you don't consider Hamas to be equally culpable for the deaths of innocent people in the ongoing war, understanding those reasons would be a good starting point. | |||
"I’ll trust the likes of the international red cross, oxfam, Doctors Without Borders, and other NGO’s in regards to what the situation is like in Gaza.. and if they say the situation is bad, I’ll believe them So pre October 7th there was 120 trucks a day going in… since Israel renege on phase 2, they allowed in ZERO for 11 weeks… even the airdrops are equivalent to 8-10 trucks worth! So it’s galling to see the Israeli propaganda.. if you have nothing to hide let foreign journalists in … It is beyond stupid that Hamas launched an attack on Israel when the people of Gaza are reliant upon food trucks coming in.. It is ridiculous to think that Hamas couldn't see this unfolding as it did, it must have been a deliberate act inflicted upon their own people and for what? And reportedly with 75% of Palestinians supporting the attacks and butchering. Israel owes them fuck all. This has been debunked more times than you and I have had hot dinners combined. Yet it continues to be trotted out. Side note, even if it was true, would that justify that mass slaughter of children and babies?Hamas should stop hiding behind children and babies, that may make a difference, Mrs x If I had a pound for every single "what about Hamas" or "It's Hamas's fault that the IDF are mass slaughtering kids". I'd be a wealthy man. Why play down the impact Hamas has and is having at every opportunity? They are very much an equal problem in this war, and yet it seems so difficult for many to recognise. Why play down the impact the IDF has and is having at every opportunity? They are very much an equal problem in this war, and yet it seems so difficult for many to recognise. I don't play down the impact of either side, I believe both share equal responsibility in war crimes, and barbarity. I have made that clear. I feel you have taken a side? Yes! I have extremely strongly taken a side. My side is innocent civilians, regardless of their nationality, ethnicity, religion. I am against the side what kills innocent people. I have said this many many many times. In that case I would have hoped you were more evenly balanced in your criticism and be vocal about both sides, unless you think only Israel are killing innocent people? I've been very clear in my criticism of the IDF, not of Israel. And currently, the IDF are committing what are most likely war crimes. Our government are supporting by providing F-35 or F-15 (I forget which) parts to enable them to continue the slaughter. And I am frustrated with the lack of action from the government, especially on the problems getting aid into Gaza. Our government has rightly condemned Hamas, and doesn't provide military assistance to them. So what is there to say? You are side stepping your condemnation of Hamas by using the government as a proxy. Innocent civilians are being harmed by both sides, IDF and Hamas. I don't understand the desperation to have people add the side note about Hamas, when they've been universally condemned, whenever the situation is being discussed. It comes across as an epic whatabout. Side note, Hamas? Are you for real? Can we say the same about Israel, and their approach which has been condemned universally, are they a side note too? Then you're clearly not reading this or any other threads on the subject. Lots of people on here are clearly not condemning anyone except Hamas. I'm really struggling to make sense of your opinions, maybe that is how it suits. I don't know how to make it any clearer. The IDF have responsibility for their own actions. That's it. I don't feel the need, when discussing say bombs dropped onto Palestinian kids, to add an "also Hamas are bad" every single time. It's bizarre to want people to do that. Who has asked you to do that? " Every time anyone posts criticism of the current situation, you reply with "what about Hamas". Indirectly asking people to do that. " The only question being asked of you is can you see that both sides are equally to blame for the killing of innocent people every day the war continues. " Each "side" is responsible for the innocent people they have killed. Hamas being bad does not absolve the IDF from their actions. " If that is accepted, there should be as much public pressure applied to Hamas as there is to Israel to stop the war. " This has been covered multiple times, by me and by others, in multiple threads. Our government has rightly condemned Hamas. Our government is not providing them military equipment and support. Hamas aren't part of the UN. Our politicians aren't speaking out in support of Hamas. As a country, we've already addressed this "side". " This seems harder than it should be to understand. If you don't consider Hamas to be equally culpable for the deaths of innocent people in the ongoing war, understanding those reasons would be a good starting point. " Covered this above.  | |||
"I’ll trust the likes of the international red cross, oxfam, Doctors Without Borders, and other NGO’s in regards to what the situation is like in Gaza.. and if they say the situation is bad, I’ll believe them So pre October 7th there was 120 trucks a day going in… since Israel renege on phase 2, they allowed in ZERO for 11 weeks… even the airdrops are equivalent to 8-10 trucks worth! So it’s galling to see the Israeli propaganda.. if you have nothing to hide let foreign journalists in … It is beyond stupid that Hamas launched an attack on Israel when the people of Gaza are reliant upon food trucks coming in.. It is ridiculous to think that Hamas couldn't see this unfolding as it did, it must have been a deliberate act inflicted upon their own people and for what? And reportedly with 75% of Palestinians supporting the attacks and butchering. Israel owes them fuck all. This has been debunked more times than you and I have had hot dinners combined. Yet it continues to be trotted out. Side note, even if it was true, would that justify that mass slaughter of children and babies?Hamas should stop hiding behind children and babies, that may make a difference, Mrs x If I had a pound for every single "what about Hamas" or "It's Hamas's fault that the IDF are mass slaughtering kids". I'd be a wealthy man. Why play down the impact Hamas has and is having at every opportunity? They are very much an equal problem in this war, and yet it seems so difficult for many to recognise. Why play down the impact the IDF has and is having at every opportunity? They are very much an equal problem in this war, and yet it seems so difficult for many to recognise. I don't play down the impact of either side, I believe both share equal responsibility in war crimes, and barbarity. I have made that clear. I feel you have taken a side? Yes! I have extremely strongly taken a side. My side is innocent civilians, regardless of their nationality, ethnicity, religion. I am against the side what kills innocent people. I have said this many many many times. In that case I would have hoped you were more evenly balanced in your criticism and be vocal about both sides, unless you think only Israel are killing innocent people? I've been very clear in my criticism of the IDF, not of Israel. And currently, the IDF are committing what are most likely war crimes. Our government are supporting by providing F-35 or F-15 (I forget which) parts to enable them to continue the slaughter. And I am frustrated with the lack of action from the government, especially on the problems getting aid into Gaza. Our government has rightly condemned Hamas, and doesn't provide military assistance to them. So what is there to say? You are side stepping your condemnation of Hamas by using the government as a proxy. Innocent civilians are being harmed by both sides, IDF and Hamas. I don't understand the desperation to have people add the side note about Hamas, when they've been universally condemned, whenever the situation is being discussed. It comes across as an epic whatabout. Side note, Hamas? Are you for real? Can we say the same about Israel, and their approach which has been condemned universally, are they a side note too? Then you're clearly not reading this or any other threads on the subject. Lots of people on here are clearly not condemning anyone except Hamas. I'm really struggling to make sense of your opinions, maybe that is how it suits. I don't know how to make it any clearer. The IDF have responsibility for their own actions. That's it. I don't feel the need, when discussing say bombs dropped onto Palestinian kids, to add an "also Hamas are bad" every single time. It's bizarre to want people to do that. " There is an issue with how you club together everyone within the IDF, as if every member has committed a wrong. There have been terrible incidents committed by members of the IDF but not by them all. It's the responsibility of the IDF to ensure that their soldiers behave accordingly, as a proper army should. In the main they have done that. The times when they havent, it should be those that have committed the wrongs that should be the target of your wrath, not every soldier in the IDF. If these incidents were committed by mistake then the IDF should address this to ensure it shouldn't happen again and the particular soldiers should be disciplined. If however its acts of evil by certain soldiers, then these soldiers should be tried within the law and face the same penalties as anyone committing such horrendous acts. The difference between the IDF and Hamas is of ideology. One consists of conscripts, fighting to protect their country. The other is comprised of volunteers, committed to the absolute destruction of a people and their country. There's a huge difference in ideology and methodology. One is terrorism, the other is an army. People can make there own minds up which is more evil and that the really bizarre thing, people choosing terrorism in this instance, strange, very strange, Mrs x | |||
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"More than 100 critically ill and injured Gazan children coming to UK after the government has announced a scheme to provide those in severe need with NHS care. " This doesn't sit well with me, it feels like government optics and doing very little in the process. Why move these children thousands of miles, hours by road and air to be treated? Why are they not being taken to Cyprus as an example, at most 1 hour away and we have a military base / hospital there. Any child who couldn't be treated successfully in Cyprus could be better looked after whilst there than Gaza and moved more safely to the UK. | |||
"This doesn't sit well with me, it feels like government optics and doing very little in the process. Why move these children thousands of miles, hours by road and air to be treated? Why are they not being taken to Cyprus as an example, at most 1 hour away and we have a military base / hospital there. Any child who couldn't be treated successfully in Cyprus could be better looked after whilst there than Gaza and moved more safely to the UK." The UK have about 3,500 troops plus their families and admin staff in Cyprus. A total population similar to a very small town. Their hospital will be proportionate to that population size. According to the Sunday Times about 300 youngsters are being flown to the UK for medical attention. While the UK Cyprus medical facilities would presumably be able to just about handle 300 emergency care cases they'll not have the faciilities to do any specialist work such as reconstructive surgery as probably required by these kids. | |||
"Israeli leaders accused Hamas of starving hostages. Whilst Israel commits genocide in Gaza and stops aid reaching the people who are dying through starvation ( not to mention the bullets that are killing those who dare to collect the aid that appears to be getting through), World leaders decry how the hostages are not being fed. The whole situation is a complete and utter mess. October the 7th should have never happened but do people really expect the Gaza people to risk death to collect aid to then ensure that Israeli hostages are well fed?" If hamas have time to release videos of emaciated hostages they have time to release the hostages, and even after the video there idiot base dismiss it as fake. | |||
"You make me laugh. You claim Hamas dont make figures up and that they are mainly accurate. This is despite Hamas blatantly adding 5,000 terminal cancer patients to the figures of those killed in the conflict. Now whilst I agree there deaths may have been accelerated due to the circumstances of the war they were no way casualties of it. Maybe we have differences in what constitutes accuracy in recording figures. I won't point out how Hamas altered ages and sexes to suit their narrative of the IDF killing woman and children but they did do that." You seldom make me laugh. It's mostly really depressing reading your posts. I think it's reasonable to count secondary casualities. If I bomb a hospital and people then die of things like cancer because there's no longer treatment available to keep them alive I'd consider myself responsible for shortening their lives. But I googled your claim and it seems to be a story in the Telegraph based on a report from the Henry Jackson Society. And who wrote the report? Andrew Fox. It's claiming that the Hamas run Gaza ministry of health have been fiddling the numbers. But curiously the story came to light because the ministry adjusted the figures down by 3,400 to improve accuracy. So somehow the numbers can't be trusted because they've been revised down! For anyone who doesn't know about the Henry Jackson Society, they claim to be non-partisan and independent but are actually a front for neoconservative hawks and people like Douglas Murray. One of the founders, Matthew Jamison says that he is ashamed of his involvement, having never imagined it "would become a far-right, deeply anti-Muslim racist ... propaganda outfit to smear other cultures, religions and ethnic groups". "I did not give one example of Hamas using media which is not true as an example of them lying to suit their aims. I have three, each of them easily verified by a simple Google search. In fact Hamas do this so often there's a whole genre of clips dedicated to paramedic heroes. These clips show paramedics driving to hospitals with 'dead' babies or infants on their laps, as they drive, and these paramedics are giving CPR whilst driving. So why doesn't anyone question who the fuck is filming and if these poor infants needed CPR why was the driver giving it and not the person filming it. Is it because these kids are more useful as a propaganda purpose? Come on, think for yourselves, stop being a tool for terrorist propaganda. Mrs x" To be honest I'm not going to delve further into disinformation on either side. I only brought it up because of your claim that babies had been burnt alive. People are people and so we'll get dishonesty in any conflict. But just because there was dishonestly on the Israeli side I don't jump to the conclusion that the atrocities of October 7th 1023 didn't happen. If we steelman your argument and say there is widespread disinformation on the Hamas side it doesn't really change anything. The reporting from various international medical staff and NGOs and the images on our screens are compelling enough. But I guess you'll believe the Israeli government, the IDF and the Henry Jackson Society are telling the truth and the following are all tools of terrorist propaganda... 1. American Friends Service Committee (AFSC) 2. A.M. Qattan Foundation 3. A New Policy 4. ACT Alliance 5. Action Against Hunger (ACF) 6. Action for Humanity 7. ActionAid International 8. American Baptist Churches Palestine Justice Network 9. Amnesty International 10. Asamblea de Cooperación por la Paz 11. Associazione Cooperazione e Solidarietà (ACS) 12. Bystanders No More 13. Campain 14. CARE 15. Caritas Germany 16. Caritas Internationalis 17. Caritas Jerusalem 18. Catholic Agency for Overseas Development (CAFOD) 19. Center for Mind-Body Medicine (CMBM) 20. CESVI Fondazione 21. Children Not Numbers 22. Christian Aid 23. Churches for Middle East Peace (CMEP) 24. CIDSE- International Family of Catholic Social Justice Organisations 25. Cooperazione Internazionale Sud Sud (CISS) 26. Council for Arab‐British Understanding (CAABU) 27. DanChurchAid (DCA) 28. Danish Refugee Council (DRC) 29. Doctors against Genocide 30. Episcopal Peace Fellowship 31. EuroMed Rights 32. Friends Committee on National Legislation (FCNL) 33. Forum Ziviler Friedensdienst e.V. 34. Gender Action for Peace and Security 35. Global Legal Action Network (GLAN) 36. Global Witness 37. Health Workers 4 Palestine 38. HelpAge International 39. Humanity & Inclusion (HI) 40. Humanity First UK 41. Indiana Center for Middle East Peace 42. Insight Insecurity 43. International Media Support 44. International NGO Safety Organisation 45. Islamic Relief 46. Jahalin Solidarity 47. Japan International Volunteer Center (JVC) 48. Kenya Association of Muslim Medical Professionals (KAMMP) 49. Kvinna till Kvinna Foundation 50. MedGlobal 51. Medico International 52. Medico International Switzerland (medico international schweiz) 53. Medical Aid for Palestinians (MAP) 54. Mennonite Central Committee (MCC) 55. Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) 56. Médecins du Monde France 57. Médecins du Monde Spain 58. Médecins du Monde Switzerland 59. Mercy Corps 60. Middle East Children’s Alliance (MECA) 61. Movement for Peace (MPDL) 62. Muslim Aid 63. National Justice and Peace Network in England and Wales 64. Nonviolence International 65. Norwegian Aid Committee (NORWAC) 66. Norwegian Church Aid (NCA) 67. Norwegian People’s Aid (NPA) 68. Norwegian Refugee Council (NRC) 69. Oxfam International 70. Pax Christi England and Wales 71. Pax Christi International 72. Pax Christi Merseyside 73. Pax Christi USA 74. Pal Law Commission 75. Palestinian American Medical Association 76. Palestinian Children’s Relief Fund (PCRF) 77. Palestinian Medical Relief Society (PMRS) 78. Peace Direct 79. Peace Winds 80. Pediatricians for Palestine 81. People in Need 82. Plan International 83. Première Urgence Internationale (PUI) 84. Progettomondo 85. Project HOPE 86. Quaker Palestine Israel Network 87. Rebuilding Alliance 88. Saferworld 89. Sabeel‐Kairos UK 90. Save the Children (SCI) 91. Scottish Catholic International Aid Fund 92. Solidarités International 93. Støtteforeningen Det Danske Hus i Palæstina 94. Swiss Church Aid (HEKS/EPER) 95. Terre des Hommes Italia 96. Terre des Hommes Lausanne 97. Terre des Hommes Nederland 98. The Borgen Project 99. The Center for Mind-Body Medicine (CMBM) 100. The Glia Project 101. The Global Centre for the Responsibility to Protect (GCR2P) 102. The Institute for the Understanding of Anti‐Palestinian Racism 103. Un Ponte Per (UPP) 104. United Against Inhumanity (UAI) 105. War Child Alliance 106. War Child UK 107. War on Want 108. Weltfriedensdienst e.V. 109. Welthungerhilfe (WHH) | |||
"This doesn't sit well with me, it feels like government optics and doing very little in the process. Why move these children thousands of miles, hours by road and air to be treated? Why are they not being taken to Cyprus as an example, at most 1 hour away and we have a military base / hospital there. Any child who couldn't be treated successfully in Cyprus could be better looked after whilst there than Gaza and moved more safely to the UK. The UK have about 3,500 troops plus their families and admin staff in Cyprus. A total population similar to a very small town. Their hospital will be proportionate to that population size. According to the Sunday Times about 300 youngsters are being flown to the UK for medical attention. While the UK Cyprus medical facilities would presumably be able to just about handle 300 emergency care cases they'll not have the faciilities to do any specialist work such as reconstructive surgery as probably required by these kids." I understand there maybe some procedures that the military hospital will not be able to do, but I would expect trauma injuries and stabilisation to be high on the list of things they are experts in. The wellbeing of these children during long journeys involving road, and hours in the air is my concern, it reads as a dash out of Gaza straight to the UK. Using our military facilities in Cyprus as a triage and stabilisation facility would allow children to be assessed, treated, and prioritised properly before extensive travel, some might not need to travel onwards at all. The current number 100, possibly rising to 300, feels like a token gesture for the optics, not a serious response, it feels cobbled together, get it done and wash our hands of it. | |||
"I understand there maybe some procedures that the military hospital will not be able to do, but I would expect trauma injuries and stabilisation to be high on the list of things they are experts in. The wellbeing of these children during long journeys involving road, and hours in the air is my concern, it reads as a dash out of Gaza straight to the UK. Using our military facilities in Cyprus as a triage and stabilisation facility would allow children to be assessed, treated, and prioritised properly before extensive travel, some might not need to travel onwards at all. The current number 100, possibly rising to 300, feels like a token gesture for the optics, not a serious response, it feels cobbled together, get it done and wash our hands of it." There isn't an air ambulance service nor even an airport in Gaza anymore. The children's initial trauma would have been dealt with in the few remaining medical facilities left standing or more likely in field hospitals. Then they will the be driven to Israel or Egypt to catch a flight to the UK They will be stable but suffering from life-changing injuries that need specialist attention. Sending them to Cyprus would be pointless. | |||
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"Derailed again. If hamas have time to release videos of emaciated hostages they have time to release the hostages, and even after the video there idiot base dismiss it as fake" Hamas would rather see 2 million dead Palestinians before they give up the last 22 hostages. Long way to go with this yet. | |||
