FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Hmmm … an ethical question… I think
Hmmm … an ethical question… I think
Jump to: Newest in thread
 |
By *abio OP Man 36 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
So if you bomb a hospital knowing it has ill patients in it……..
And then you go and bomb it again … knowing that journalists and responders go to try and help the injured after the first strike
Are they both war crimes?
Is only one a war crime.. in which case which event
Just wondering…… |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abio OP Man 36 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
Just wondered…… Israel are claiming its was a tragic mishap…
Mind you this is the Israel that claims it doesn’t deliberately target journalists and emergency personnel
This time they got one working for Al Jazeera, one working for the AP, one working for Reuters, and one working for American network NBC
Not to mention the first responders…. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *otMe66Man 36 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"Just wondered…… Israel are claiming its was a tragic mishap…
Mind you this is the Israel that claims it doesn’t deliberately target journalists and emergency personnel
This time they got one working for Al Jazeera, one working for the AP, one working for Reuters, and one working for American network NBC
Not to mention the first responders…."
I believe the time between the first and second attack was 17 minutes, that I would have thought is enough evidence to prove a war crime. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"So if you bomb a hospital knowing it has ill patients in it……..
And then you go and bomb it again … knowing that journalists and responders go to try and help the injured after the first strike
Are they both war crimes?
Is only one a war crime.. in which case which event
Just wondering…… "
Is that an ethical or legal question? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abio OP Man 36 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"So if you bomb a hospital knowing it has ill patients in it……..
And then you go and bomb it again … knowing that journalists and responders go to try and help the injured after the first strike
Are they both war crimes?
Is only one a war crime.. in which case which event
Just wondering……
Is that an ethical or legal question?"
I was kinda being a bit facetious……
I obviously think both are… but I know the defenders of the Israeli occupying forces like playing with semantics |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) 36 weeks ago
|
It's certainly sailing very close to the wind for a war crime. I worry Israel have crossed a threshold in Gaza and in future conflicts, hospitals, journalists and relief agencies will all be targeted under the excuse of 'harbouring combatants'. It's hard to verify or deny especially without journalists on the ground. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It's certainly sailing very close to the wind for a war crime. I worry Israel have crossed a threshold in Gaza and in future conflicts, hospitals, journalists and relief agencies will all be targeted under the excuse of 'harbouring combatants'. It's hard to verify or deny especially without journalists on the ground."
people have been bombing civilians in wars for years, the americans were doing it in iraq, you dont really think when they were dropping 2000lb bombs in targeted strikes it wasnt flattening buildings in the immediate vicinity as well as the building they were targeting do you
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"So if you bomb a hospital knowing it has ill patients in it……..
And then you go and bomb it again … knowing that journalists and responders go to try and help the injured after the first strike
Are they both war crimes?
Is only one a war crime.. in which case which event
Just wondering…… "
It's looking like Israel can do whatever the fuck they like,if anyone question's it they cry foul showing the antisemitic card.
I don't know I've really tried to stay well clear of commenting on this situation but it's a fucking shit show.
Russia and Israel are proving they can do whatever they want how long before other countries follow them?
I mean who's gonna have the ball's to call out China if they decide to do one? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"So if you bomb a hospital knowing it has ill patients in it……..
And then you go and bomb it again … knowing that journalists and responders go to try and help the injured after the first strike
Are they both war crimes?
Is only one a war crime.. in which case which event
Just wondering…… "
Problem is who's going to actually call them out, they clearly have the backing of the USA. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"First attack would more than likely be defended with intelligence pointing to the hospital being used for military use.
Second attack war crime.
"
These are terrorist tactics, first bomb draws the crowd and responders then hit it again. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
What was the intel about who or what was in the hospital, what made it a viable target, these are going to be the important factors over whether it was a war crime, was collateral damage mitigated in anyway or taken in to account. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"What was the intel about who or what was in the hospital, what made it a viable target, these are going to be the important factors over whether it was a war crime,
was collateral damage mitigated in anyway or taken in to account. "
Collateral damage considered targeting an over filled hospital with bomb victims - are you serious? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"What was the intel about who or what was in the hospital, what made it a viable target, these are going to be the important factors over whether it was a war crime,
was collateral damage mitigated in anyway or taken in to account.
Collateral damage considered targeting an over filled hospital with bomb victims - are you serious? "
Depending on the military outcome of the mission then yes, collateral damage, it’s only a war crime if the collateral damage was excessive based on the military outcome.
Without that information then there’s no way to know if this was a war crime or not. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"What was the intel about who or what was in the hospital, what made it a viable target, these are going to be the important factors over whether it was a war crime,
was collateral damage mitigated in anyway or taken in to account.
Collateral damage considered targeting an over filled hospital with bomb victims - are you serious?
Depending on the military outcome of the mission then yes, collateral damage, it’s only a war crime if the collateral damage was excessive based on the military outcome.
Without that information then there’s no way to know if this was a war crime or not."
The Israelis use the lavender AI system. Plenty of experts have explained its use and that the collateral damage would not be acceptable to other militaries. Even Israeli soldiers interviewed were told not to consider any civilian casualties |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Bringing it back to the subject, the only way to know if this is a war crime will be based on if the collateral was excessive to the intended outcome, if it’s shown that it was it’s a war crime, if it’s shown it’s not then it’s not a war crime. Basing the answer on the facts at hand cannot be done. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *otMe66Man 36 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"Bringing it back to the subject, the only way to know if this is a war crime will be based on if the collateral was excessive to the intended outcome, if it’s shown that it was it’s a war crime, if it’s shown it’s not then it’s not a war crime. Basing the answer on the facts at hand cannot be done."
The timing of the second attack is going to be very difficult for Israel to explain away. I believe it was 17 minutes after the first attack, which is obviously going to have hit emergency workers trying to rescue those inside and people leaving the building.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Bringing it back to the subject, the only way to know if this is a war crime will be based on if the collateral was excessive to the intended outcome, if it’s shown that it was it’s a war crime, if it’s shown it’s not then it’s not a war crime. Basing the answer on the facts at hand cannot be done.
The timing of the second attack is going to be very difficult for Israel to explain away. I believe it was 17 minutes after the first attack, which is obviously going to have hit emergency workers trying to rescue those inside and people leaving the building.
"
Extolling maximum fear and causalities. Like when they bombed safe zones and food aid queues. Not hard to minimise collateral damage at a hospital, people in beds with injuries can hardly escape. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
If the Israeli military targeted what they suspected to be a Hamas observation camera, and they could reasonably conclude it was a legitimate military objective, then the 1st strike might be "lawful in principle".
.
However if the weapon used was disproportionate (killing x amount of civvies to target a camera) then that could violate the proportionality rule and therefore constitute a war crime.
.
The 2nd strike a little while later is troubling. First Responders are protected under IHL (International Humanitarian Law).
.
If evidence shows the 2nd strike knowingly targeted rescuers, then that constitutes a war crime. Even if not deliberate, failing to anticipate that rescuers would be present may show a disregard for the proportionality and precaution requirements. This again would contstitute towards a war crime. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
It depends. Was the hospital being used as an OP or a location for a sniper or mortar team? Do you ever stop to think what happens in urban combat zones the world over? It's war and war isn't fair. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abio OP Man 36 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"It depends. Was the hospital being used as an OP or a location for a sniper or mortar team? Do you ever stop to think what happens in urban combat zones the world over? It's war and war isn't fair."
Well.. the claim the Israelis are now making (after changing the story 3 times) is that the target was a “camera position used by Hamas “ … we know the only camera that was in that place was used by news organisation Reuters, because it was live feeding as strike 1 happened…
They don’t have an excuse for strike 2…. And you can’t tell me the Israelis would not have known first responders and journalists would not go to help the injured from strike 1 |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abio OP Man 36 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Also, how old are the oldest publications of these journalists? Because an awful lot of them seem to be hanging around a hot warzone.  "
How old are the oldest publications of these journalists? If you don’t know who the Associated Press and Reuters are.. I can’t help you!
Plus a journalist from Al Jazeera and another from NBC |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"So if you bomb a hospital knowing it has ill patients in it……..
And then you go and bomb it again … knowing that journalists and responders go to try and help the injured after the first strike
Are they both war crimes?
Is only one a war crime.. in which case which event
Just wondering…… "
Any of this going in Ukraine...or doesn't it matter because it's Russia doing it? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abio OP Man 36 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
Interesting updates
CNN are reporting it was a double strike… but in fact 1 strike followed 7 minutes later by 2 strikes in very quick succession
Sky News are reporting that the 2/3 strike on the hospital was a premeditated strike on medics and journalists…. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
