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Mosque arson attack
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"A mosque in Peacehaven, East Sussex has been damaged in a suspected arson attack last night, which police are investigating as a hate crime. In the face of the Government’s requests for peace, inclusion and the proposed crackdown on protests, few are listening. Even the politicians are on the bandwagon, tories the latest promising 750,000 deportations. How much more escalation of public disorder is likely, or will it fizzle out in the face of a Gaza ceasefire ? " Media outlets need to be held more accountable for whipping up people into a frenzy of hatred and division. The BBC are shocking for doing this, everything they report is done in such a devious and divisive way. They've dumbed down the news into sound bites and short clips only occasionally going into depth when it suits their agenda. | |||
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"Given the fairly widespread stereotyping and demonisation of Muslims, things are likely to get far worse. Immigration is declared by the right to be the worst thing happening in the UK and immigration is often conflated with Islam even though at least half of Muslims in the UK were born here. There is also a perception amongst some that the Muslim population is far larger than it is. 94% of the population aren't Muslims but you wouldn't think that given the conspiracy theory that the country is being overrun by Muslims. There's also a perception that all Muslims think the same way when clearly they don't. They are a heterogenous group just like any other. Reform are partly responsible for this narrative but the Tories and sadly Labour too are amplifying it. The Tories are largely irrelevant now but the Labour Party should stop moving to the right and make a principled stand for centrist values. If they try to occupy the same ground as the Tories then thay too will become irrelevant. " The Labour Party already are irrelevant. Just watch out for those Buddhist monks. You never know what weaponry they are concealing under those robes. They are forever knifing random Jews and blowing themselves up. | |||
"The Labour Party already are irrelevant. Just watch out for those Buddhist monks. You never know what weaponry they are concealing under those robes. They are forever knifing random Jews and blowing themselves up." If you are dumb enough to think that people who identify as Buddhists never do anything wrong I suggest you look up what happened to the Rohingya Muslims just eight years ago. Estimates are 25,000 Rohingya killed and 18,000 sexual crimes against Rohingya women and girls. Wicked people use religion or anything else they can as cover for their crimes. | |||
" Wicked people use religion or anything else they can as cover for their crimes." This is eternally true. | |||
"... immigration is often conflated with Islam ... Reform are partly responsible for this narrative but the Tories and sadly Labour too are amplifying it." I don't see that. The people I see complaining about immigration are complaining about all sorts of immigrants, including white European Christians. I don't see anyone confusing immigration and Islam. I certainly don't see any of the political parties mixing up Islam and immigration. I certainly do see people that are against Islam, but they're against Muslims that are already here, and aren't just focused on immigration. Can you give us some examples of people conflating the two? | |||
"Given the fairly widespread stereotyping and demonisation of Muslims, things are likely to get far worse. Immigration is declared by the right to be the worst thing happening in the UK and immigration is often conflated with Islam even though at least half of Muslims in the UK were born here. There is also a perception amongst some that the Muslim population is far larger than it is. 94% of the population aren't Muslims but you wouldn't think that given the conspiracy theory that the country is being overrun by Muslims. There's also a perception that all Muslims think the same way when clearly they don't. They are a heterogenous group just like any other. Reform are partly responsible for this narrative but the Tories and sadly Labour too are amplifying it. The Tories are largely irrelevant now but the Labour Party should stop moving to the right and make a principled stand for centrist values. If they try to occupy the same ground as the Tories then thay too will become irrelevant. " I’m struggling to see how you’ve arrived at this: “immigration is often conflated with Islam even though at least half of Muslims in the UK were born here.” The two points don’t connect together, one doesn’t explain the other... It seems a shoehorn into "right" bad, with no substance. | |||
""... immigration is often conflated with Islam ... Reform are partly responsible for this narrative but the Tories and sadly Labour too are amplifying it." I don't see that. The people I see complaining about immigration are complaining about all sorts of immigrants, including white European Christians. I don't see anyone confusing immigration and Islam. I certainly don't see any of the political parties mixing up Islam and immigration. I certainly do see people that are against Islam, but they're against Muslims that are already here, and aren't just focused on immigration. Can you give us some examples of people conflating the two?" My main argument is that Muslims face stereotyping and demonisation from some on the right but it seems you'd prefer to argue about my minor point on conflation. Conflation is the merging of two ideas, not the confusion of one idea with another. So given a popular perception that the majority of immigrants are from Muslim countries then a conflation might arise for some between immigration numbers and the number of followers of Islam in the country. Looking at the ONS data YE 2023 it seems that the main country of origin for long-term immigration is India (250,000) which is 80% Hindu. The next largest sources were Nigeria (141,000), China (90,000) then Pakistan (83,000). So far I've not been able to get a breakdown of immigration by religion although a Commons Library source says that in 2017 50% of foreign born people in the UK were Christian. Still I think many people believe that the majority of immigrants are Muslims and thus that there is a correlation between immigration and Islam but I've not been able to find solid evidence for this so I used the word conflation rather than correlation. Post the Brexit vote immigration from the EU dropped and became negative in 2021. Net immigration of EU citizens in 2023 was minus 86,000. According to March 2025 gov.uk statistics EU nationals now make up 53% of all those refused entry to the UK. As many EU citizens are Chrisitans it's quite difficult to access the exact effects of government policies on the proportion of people identifying by various religions. So maybe there is a correlation hidden in the data in which case replace the word conflated with correlated in my original post. You then say "The people I see complaining about immigration are complaining about all sorts of immigrants, including white European Christians". Well I see plenty of people complaining about Muslim immigration but very few complaining about white Christians. I don't see any protests about Polish, Ukrainian or French people being here. When Farage complains about immigration I don't think he's classifying his foreign girlfriend as an immigrant. Just like Trump doesn't think about Melania that way. You then say "I certainly don't see any of the political parties mixing up Islam and immigration.". Admittedly it's mostly dog whistles. Farage in particular is keen to maintain discipline and present Reform as respectable. So he separates talk of immigration from talk about religion. But given that his overarching idea is reducing immigration then when he talks about religion he's simply leaving his audience to connect the dots. For instance in his conference speech... "But most of all, we need to make Britain proud again. We've lost our sense of who we are. We refuse to acknowledge publicly the Judeo-Christian culture and heritage that we have and that underpins everything that we are. We refuse to have our kids minds poisoned in schools and universities with a twisted interpretation of the history of these amazing islands. We will not stand for it." It's very poor rhetoric because of the inversion where the first "refuse" is criticism and the second "refuse" is advocation. But what he is saying is that everything "we" are is underpinned by Judaism and Christianity and that we will lose our sense of Britishness and the sense of who "we" are if another religion becomes more popular. Also that an intellectual elite is poisoning the minds of our children. All pretty much straight out of the MAGA / Christian nationalist playbook. I can't be bothered to deal with the Tory's pronouncements but they are basically saying the same kind of thing as Reform, even accusing Reform of stealing Tory ideas. On Labour it's a bit more subtle but Starmer's "Island of Strangers" speech showed the mask slipping. He claims he disn't understand that in a speech on controlling immigration "island of strangers" and "strangers in their own country" meant the same thing. I don't think anyone with any understanding of politics thinks that is true. He was playing to the same sentiment as Powell's infamous speech and thought he'd get away with it. Ultimately I don't think this is about Islam nor was it about blacks in 1968. It's about othering and blaming whoever happens to be the scapegoat of the day. Technically we could discuss the subtle differences between nativism, identitarianism, irridentism, xenophobia and religious nationalism but it's all essentially a game designed to stoke and utilise fear of the other for political ends. | |||
" Still I think many people believe that the majority of immigrants are Muslims and thus that there is a correlation between immigration and Islam but I've not been able to find solid evidence for this so I used the word conflation rather than correlation. " This is a terrible assumption. Most people know where immigration is coming from. " You then say "The people I see complaining about immigration are complaining about all sorts of immigrants, including white European Christians". Well I see plenty of people complaining about Muslim immigration but very few complaining about white Christians. I don't see any protests about Polish, Ukrainian or French people being here. " Didn't people complain about migration from these countries when the Brexit vote happened? They were pissed off when post-brexit, the immigration didn't go down and instead was replaced by immigration from Asian countries. | |||
"This is a terrible assumption. Most people know where immigration is coming from." Do they? I've not been able to find recent polling on this but my quess would be that if you asked random members of the public where immigrants are coming from you'd be more likely to hear Syria, Afghanistan and Iran than India, Nigeria and China. I don't have unlimited amounts of time to do research so if you or anyone else can find recent polling on this it would be helpful to the debate. "Didn't people complain about migration from these countries when the Brexit vote happened? They were pissed off when post-brexit, the immigration didn't go down and instead was replaced by immigration from Asian countries." The other poster claimed that those he sees complaining about immigration are complaining about all kinds of immigrants including white Chrisitans. Currently I don't see any protests against the approximate 600,000 Polish people living here nor the 200,000 Ukrainians. | |||
"Still I think many people believe that the majority of immigrants are Muslims and thus that there is a correlation between immigration and Islam but I've not been able to find solid evidence for this ..." So basically you are expressing your own views and treating them as if they are fact. "Well I see plenty of people complaining about Muslim immigration but very few complaining about white Christians. I don't see any protests about Polish, Ukrainian or French people being here." You don't? I've heard plenty of people complaining about Poles (comin' over 'ere taking our jobs). I see plenty of ire aimed at Albanians and Romanians too. "Admittedly it's mostly dog whistles." Yes, it's just you hearing stuff that isn't actually there. | |||
" I've not been able to find recent polling on this but my quess would be that if you asked random members of the public where immigrants are coming from you'd be more likely to hear Syria, Afghanistan and Iran than India, Nigeria and China. I don't have unlimited amounts of time to do research so if you or anyone else can find recent polling on this it would be helpful to the debate. " You just made up a story here and pretending like it's a fact. No amount of research is going to show that it's true. " The other poster claimed that those he sees complaining about immigration are complaining about all kinds of immigrants including white Chrisitans. Currently I don't see any protests against the approximate 600,000 Polish people living here nor the 200,000 Ukrainians. " During Brexit, most people were complaining about the Poles and the Romanians taking away low paying jobs. Do you think that was not the case? After Brexit, you don't hear it as often because immigration from those countries stopped. But the same jobs were filled this time through immigration from Asian countries. | |||
"That's an awful lot of words to say not very much. Did you think that all of those stats related in some way to your point?" You chose to make a narrow point about conflation and the only way to address that was to look at immigration and people's perception of it in more detail. "So basically you are expressing your own views and treating them as if they are fact." No, I'm just expressing my opinions and explicitly using qualified language like "I think", "some" and "might" to indicate this. "You don't? I've heard plenty of people complaining about Poles (comin' over 'ere taking our jobs). I see plenty of ire aimed at Albanians and Romanians too." No I don't. I did before the Brexit vote but in your claim you were talking about the present not what happened nine years ago. "Yes, it's just you hearing stuff that isn't actually there." The whole point of dog whistle politics is to gain some kind of plausible deniability cover while the core constituancy knows exactly what the intended message is. If you disagree with my interpretation, I'm curious to learn what you think the key part of Farage's speech meant... "But most of all, we need to make Britain proud again. We've lost our sense of who we are. We refuse to acknowledge publicly the Judeo-Christian culture and heritage that we have and that underpins everything that we are. We refuse to have our kids minds poisoned in schools and universities with a twisted interpretation of the history of these amazing islands. We will not stand for it." | |||
"You just made up a story here and pretending like it's a fact. No amount of research is going to show that it's true." No, I was saying that I have an opinion that is a hypothesis / guesswork but don't have sufficient evidence and was asking for anyone who can find polling data to show where most people think immigrants are coming from to present it because that would be useful in settling the matter. Your argument self-destructs. You simultaneously claim that "Most people know where immigration is coming from" yet say no amount of research could determine whether this is actually the case. "During Brexit, most people were complaining about the Poles and the Romanians taking away low paying jobs. Do you think that was not the case? After Brexit, you don't hear it as often because immigration from those countries stopped. But the same jobs were filled this time through immigration from Asian countries." People were indeed complaining about white European Christians nine years ago but I was responding to the other poster's claim that "The people I see complaining about immigration are complaining about all sorts of immigrants, including white European Christians.". Note he is using the present tense here so I don't think his claim stands up. | |||
" During Brexit, most people were complaining about the Poles and the Romanians taking away low paying jobs. Do you think that was not the case? After Brexit, you don't hear it as often because immigration from those countries stopped. But the same jobs were filled this time through immigration from Asian countries. " Does that not tell you the story. Annoyed the eastern europeans had the jobs, voted to stop it, didn’t apply to the job, so it got filled by asians? Tells me that the broke and lazy have a huge amount of entitlement. Personally as someone raised Muslim, and of Pakistani heritage, I am considering leaving England. I am a university educated chartered accountant, who no longer feels wanted or safe in my own country. Over the years I have even built a small property portfolio, which I am also considering selling and just leaving for the middle east or far east, in the hopes this all dies down and maybe I can come home in 5-10 years. Personally I blame the start of this on Tony Blair who demonised Afghans in his war on terror, then the media who referred to refugees as cockroachers (dehumanisation) and then who really pushed the boat out was Boris with picanine smiling watermelon and letterbox comments. I just wish someone from a major party other than Zack Polanski, would turn around and call it out for what it is. I mean the term racist or nazi was deemed so horrendous we now refer to it as far right instead of what it actually is. | |||
" Your argument self-destructs. You simultaneously claim that "Most people know where immigration is coming from" yet say no amount of research could determine whether this is actually the case. " Not really. You are making allegations that people who are against immigration don't know which country they are coming from. The burden of proof is on you. " People were indeed complaining about white European Christians nine years ago but I was responding to the other poster's claim that "The people I see complaining about immigration are complaining about all sorts of immigrants, including white European Christians.". Note he is using the present tense here so I don't think his claim stands up." If you stop immigration from Asian countries and increase immigration from Eastern European countries today, they will still complain. The fact that they did complain about immigration from Eastern European countries in the past proves that. They complain about immigrants in general. You are the one who said immigration is often conflated with Islam. That's not the case. | |||
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"Arif Ali Rafiq 43 has been charged with the arson." That's an attack on a different mosque, which is in Kettering. They haven't published the identity of the Peacehaven mosque attacker yet. | |||
"Not really. You are making allegations that people who are against immigration don't know which country they are coming from." What I said was "Immigration is declared by the right to be the worst thing happening in the UK and immigration is often conflated with Islam even though at least half of Muslims in the UK were born here." I could be wrong, but that's my opinion given what I've read and heard. "The burden of proof is on you." You've aready declared that "No amount of research is going to show that it's true.". "If you stop immigration from Asian countries and increase immigration from Eastern European countries today, they will still complain. The fact that they did complain about immigration from Eastern European countries in the past proves that. They complain about immigrants in general. You are the one who said immigration is often conflated with Islam. That's not the case." My argument with the other poster is about what is happening now, not about what happened nearly a decade ago or what might happen in some hypothetical future. He said "The people I see complaining about immigration are complaining about all sorts of immigrants, including white European Christians." I simply don't see many people complaining about hundreds of thousands of white Christian immigrants. Did you hear anyone at the Unite the Kingdom event complain about white Christian immigrants? The star turn was a South African immigrant to the US telling Brits that they must fight against immigration. The irony. | |||
" The burden of proof is on you. You've aready declared that "No amount of research is going to show that it's true.". " Because you made an allegation with zero evidence. Considering the history of the left often calls anyone who disagreed with their opinion as stupid/ignorant, I can easily bet against these statements being true. " My argument with the other poster is about what is happening now, not about what happened nearly a decade ago or what might happen in some hypothetical future. He said "The people I see complaining about immigration are complaining about all sorts of immigrants, including white European Christians." I simply don't see many people complaining about hundreds of thousands of white Christian immigrants. " If someone says they don't like any immigration, it obviously includes white Christian immigrants too. I have rarely seen anyone post online that they don't like immigration from specific countries. " Did you hear anyone at the Unite the Kingdom event complain about white Christian immigrants? The star turn was a South African immigrant to the US telling Brits that they must fight against immigration. The irony. " Did they say they are against immigration only from specific countries? | |||
"Because you made an allegation with zero evidence. Considering the history of the left often calls anyone who disagreed with their opinion as stupid/ignorant, I can easily bet against these statements being true." I love how aggressive and generalizing your language is. "If someone says they don't like any immigration, it obviously includes white Christian immigrants too. I have rarely seen anyone post online that they don't like immigration from specific countries." It's never about specific countries but about countries where the people don't "share our values". If immigration completely stopped it would eventually return to War of the Roses terrain. "Did they say they are against immigration only from specific countries?" Clearly not against the immigration of white South Africans who give Nazi salutes. | |||
" During Brexit, most people were complaining about the Poles and the Romanians taking away low paying jobs. Do you think that was not the case? After Brexit, you don't hear it as often because immigration from those countries stopped. But the same jobs were filled this time through immigration from Asian countries. Does that not tell you the story. Annoyed the eastern europeans had the jobs, voted to stop it, didn’t apply to the job, so it got filled by asians? Tells me that the broke and lazy have a huge amount of entitlement. Personally as someone raised Muslim, and of Pakistani heritage, I am considering leaving England. I am a university educated chartered accountant, who no longer feels wanted or safe in my own country. Over the years I have even built a small property portfolio, which I am also considering selling and just leaving for the middle east or far east, in the hopes this all dies down and maybe I can come home in 5-10 years. Personally I blame the start of this on Tony Blair who demonised Afghans in his war on terror, then the media who referred to refugees as cockroachers (dehumanisation) and then who really pushed the boat out was Boris with picanine smiling watermelon and letterbox comments. I just wish someone from a major party other than Zack Polanski, would turn around and call it out for what it is. I mean the term racist or nazi was deemed so horrendous we now refer to it as far right instead of what it actually is. " Sad but maybe understandable you are thinking along those lines. To suggest we must ‘protect’ the native population simply because they’re ’native’ is right out of the Hitler playbook. Or in modern parlance, the Trump or Farage playbook. Of course those pair of stupid cunts neglect to realise that they wouldn’t actually qualify as ‘natives’ themselves. | |||
"Because you made an allegation with zero evidence. Considering the history of the left often calls anyone who disagreed with their opinion as stupid/ignorant, I can easily bet against these statements being true. I love how aggressive and generalizing your language is. " Not as generalising as what you said about people who are against immigration. " It's never about specific countries but about countries where the people don't "share our values". " Interesting. Are you saying that white Christian immigrants have different values compared to immigrants from the other countries? " Did they say they are against immigration only from specific countries? Clearly not against the immigration of white South Africans who give Nazi salutes. " Doesn't answer my question. Musk is not even a UK immigrant. Did the protestors say anything about immigration from specific countries or is it just another opinion from you? | |||
"Not as generalising as what you said about people who are against immigration." Let's face it you've posted many times about how much you despise anyone who is on left, liberal or progressive. How you think they are dishonest and corrupt. You've also made clear your feelings about Muslims. Keep it up. "Interesting. Are you saying that white Christian immigrants have different values compared to immigrants from the other countries?" I've made the point that there are no significant differences between Christian and Islamic values and morals multiple times. Just for the record I don't think people from any ethnicity, country or religion have significant differences. There are good and bad people everywhere. Unfortunately some people exploit what small differences there are between groups for wicked purposes. "Doesn't answer my question. Musk is not even a UK immigrant. Did the protestors say anything about immigration from specific countries or is it just another opinion from you?" Musk is an immigrant to the US telling people in the UK to fight against immigration. He's pushing the Great Replacement conspiracy theory. I've already said that it's not about specific countries. You come across as reasonably intelligent yet you often seem to not process previous statements and just carry on regardless. | |||
"That's an awful lot of words to say not very much. Did you think that all of those stats related in some way to your point?" "You chose to make a narrow point about conflation and the only way to address that was to look at immigration and people's perception of it in more detail." If you'd done that I wouldn't be complaining. Instead you posted a huge quantity of stats about immigration, and absolutely nothing about people's perception of it. Almost as if you were hoping we wouldn't notice the lack of relevance in the huge avalanche of facts. | |||
"If you'd done that I wouldn't be complaining. Instead you posted a huge quantity of stats about immigration, and absolutely nothing about people's perception of it. Almost as if you were hoping we wouldn't notice the lack of relevance in the huge avalanche of facts." I posted known stats on immigration and pointed to unknowns... "So far I've not been able to get a breakdown of immigration by religion..." "it's quite difficult to access the exact effects of government policies on the proportion of people identifying by various religions. So maybe there is a correlation hidden in the data in which case replace the word conflated with correlated in my original post." I haven't been able to find polling data on perceptions which is why I asked if anybody else could help... "I don't have unlimited amounts of time to do research so if you or anyone else can find recent polling on this it would be helpful to the debate". I realise you are a cynic but I'm not interested in trying to fool anyone. If you can present any evidence on recent polling of perceptions that would be great. | |||
"l Let's face it you've posted many times about how much you despise anyone who is on left, liberal or progressive. How you think they are dishonest and corrupt. You've also made clear your feelings about Muslims. Keep it up. " You just proved every criticism I made about the left. " I've made the point that there are no significant differences between Christian and Islamic values and morals multiple times. " You are the one who made the inference that "people don't "share our values"" means people who aren't white Christians. " Just for the record I don't think people from any ethnicity, country or religion have significant differences. " Even Nazi Germany? " Musk is an immigrant to the US telling people in the UK to fight against immigration. He's pushing the Great Replacement conspiracy theory. I've already said that it's not about specific countries. " You made the allegation that all these protestors and people who are against immigration are doing it based on religion and they aren't against immigration from Eastern European countries. And yet you fail to share single evidence for it. You pointed out the protest and made a massive leap and said Musk talking at the speech somehow means White Christians are allowed. Did you watch the protest? Did you notice that there were some Black and Asian people in the protest too? | |||
"You just proved every criticism I made about the left." How? "You are the one who made the inference that "people don't "share our values"" means people who aren't white Christians." I wasn't saying I thought this. I was talking about how some people on the right might differentiate between immigrants. Have you never heard any protesters saying something like "they don't share our values"? "Even Nazi Germany?" The distinction here is that Nazism wasn't really directly related to country, ethnicity or religion. The same kinds of ideas appeared in Spain, Italy, Japan and elsewhere. Far-right ideas obviously nestle into the local habitat but they pop up all over the place and in different times and are rooted in intellectual and emotional concerns rather than in geography, ethnicity or faith. "You made the allegation that all these protestors and people who are against immigration are doing it based on religion and they aren't against immigration from Eastern European countries. And yet you fail to share single evidence for it. You pointed out the protest and made a massive leap and said Musk talking at the speech somehow means White Christians are allowed. Did you watch the protest? Did you notice that there were some Black and Asian people in the protest too?" Read my words more carefully. | |||
" How? " The left's tendency to think that people with opposite opinions are stupid or ignorant. That has been your argument the whole thread. You have been saying that people who are against immigration don't even know where the immigrants are coming from. " I wasn't saying I thought this. I was talking about how some people on the right might differentiate between immigrants. Have you never heard any protesters saying something like "they don't share our values"? " Sure they might have said it. But you are the one who made the assumption that it's about race, without any basis or evidence. " The distinction here is that Nazism wasn't really directly related to country, ethnicity or religion. The same kinds of ideas appeared in Spain, Italy, Japan and elsewhere. " That's a completely unrelated tangent you are taking. You said "I don't think people from any ethnicity, country or religion have significant differences". Didn't the Nazi Germany and people from UK and people from India around the same time have any significant differences? " Read my words more carefully." I did. None of it has any evidence or rational basis to it. | |||
"The left's tendency to think that people with opposite opinions are stupid or ignorant. That has been your argument the whole thread. You have been saying that people who are against immigration don't even know where the immigrants are coming from." I've tried to make quite careful anaylsis of the situation, It's unclear whether there is a correlation between immigration and an increase in the following of Islam. There might be even though most long-term immigration seems to be coming from countries not thought of as principally Muslim in character. But the data is unclear. It's also unclear what countries people think are the source of immigration. I've just posited a view based on what I've read and heard that many people think that the majority of immigrants are Muslims. I'm open about this being just a hunch and welcome any evidence. My whole argument hasn't been that people against immigration are idiots. It's been that there is significant stereotyping and demonisation of Muslims. Something that you and the other poster seem reluctant to address directly. "Sure they might have said it. But you are the one who made the assumption that it's about race, without any basis or evidence." I've never mentioned race. My points have been about religion and specifcally the treatment of Muslim. I only mentioned ethnicity because along with nationality and religion I don't see major distinctions between people based on these factors. "That's a completely unrelated tangent you are taking. You said "I don't think people from any ethnicity, country or religion have significant differences". Didn't the Nazi Germany and people from UK and people from India around the same time have any significant differences?" The differences were about political ideology not about nationality, ethnicity or religion. | |||
"l You pointed out the protest and made a massive leap and said Musk talking at the speech somehow means White Christians are allowed. Did you watch the protest? Did you notice that there were some Black and Asian people in the protest too?" Did you go to the protest? 😂 | |||
"l You pointed out the protest and made a massive leap and said Musk talking at the speech somehow means White Christians are allowed. Did you watch the protest? Did you notice that there were some Black and Asian people in the protest too? Did you go to the protest? 😂" Where did I say I did? | |||
" My whole argument hasn't been that people against immigration are idiots. It's been that there is significant stereotyping and demonisation of Muslims. Something that you and the other poster seem reluctant to address directly. " Why should we address statements you make clearly without any evidence? This is what you said - "Still I think many people believe that the majority of immigrants are Muslims" It's basically an indirect way to call people idiots. It's not hard to see that's not the case. " I only mentioned ethnicity because along with nationality and religion I don't see major distinctions between people based on these factors. " You say you don't see any difference. Yet, you see to infer "they don't share our values" to imply not being white Christian? " The differences were about political ideology not about nationality, ethnicity or religion. " Of course countries have majority political ideologies. That doesn't negate the fact that the countries are different. | |||
"Why should we address statements you make clearly without any evidence?" So do you not think Muslims in the UK face stereotyping and demonisation? And by your reasoning why should I address anything you've said on this thread, because as far as I remember you've not presented any evidence for anything. "This is what you said - "Still I think many people believe that the majority of immigrants are Muslims" It's basically an indirect way to call people idiots. It's not hard to see that's not the case." Here's a simple test. Ask three or four people who you respect which three countries were the source of the most immigrants last year. And if any of them don't respond India, Nigeria and China would you consider them idiots? "You say you don't see any difference. Yet, you see to infer "they don't share our values" to imply not being white Christian?" You recognised the "they don't share our values" statement as being what some anti-immigration protesters have said. Who do you think were they referring to? "Of course countries have majority political ideologies. That doesn't negate the fact that the countries are different." You'll have to expand on that for me to understand what you are trying to say. How do you explain the connection between Germany and Japan during WWII by anything other than a shared far-right political ideology? | |||
"Why should we address statements you make clearly without any evidence? So do you not think Muslims in the UK face stereotyping and demonisation? " That's not the statement you made. You said "Still I think many people believe that the majority of immigrants are Muslims" " And by your reasoning why should I address anything you've said on this thread, because as far as I remember you've not presented any evidence for anything. " I have been pointing out the fact that you are making sweeping statements without evidence. Your posts are evidence for that. What else should I show as evidence? " Here's a simple test. Ask three or four people who you respect which three countries were the source of the most immigrants last year. And if any of them don't respond India, Nigeria and China would you consider them idiots? " False equivalence. No one is expected to know exactly which countries most immigrants are from. But it's not hard to know that majority are not from Muslim countries. At the very least, you are saying that people are ill-informed, again without any evidence. " You recognised the "they don't share our values" statement as being what some anti-immigration protesters have said. Who do you think were they referring to? " All immigrants. You for some reason, decided to infer it as a statement based on race and religion. " You'll have to expand on that for me to understand what you are trying to say. How do you explain the connection between Germany and Japan during WWII by anything other than a shared far-right political ideology? " Yes they have a shared ideology. Your statement that countries don't have significant differences is still wrong. Political ideology the people follow is a significant difference between countries in this case. | |||
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"The Labour Party already are irrelevant. Just watch out for those Buddhist monks. You never know what weaponry they are concealing under those robes. They are forever knifing random Jews and blowing themselves up. If you are dumb enough to think that people who identify as Buddhists never do anything wrong I suggest you look up what happened to the Rohingya Muslims just eight years ago. Estimates are 25,000 Rohingya killed and 18,000 sexual crimes against Rohingya women and girls. Wicked people use religion or anything else they can as cover for their crimes." Richard Dawkins talked about religion making good people doing bad things. Hw wasn't wrong. | |||
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"Sooner there are no religious buildings in the UK the better. " totally agree shut them all building houses on them labour might get it's million house build . | |||
