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Darlington Nurses Victory
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By (user no longer on site) OP 16 weeks ago
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A group of NHS nurses in Darlington have been successful in their action against their employer.
The NHS trust was found to have violated the dignity of the nurses and harassed them "by requiring [them] to share a changing room with a biological male trans woman", and "not taking seriously" their concerns.
After the Supreme Court decision on biological sex (still not implemented by the Govt) and the Sandy Pegge case, it this another example of common sense returning to the Trans issue ? |
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"A group of NHS nurses in Darlington have been successful in their action against their employer.
The NHS trust was found to have violated the dignity of the nurses and harassed them "by requiring [them] to share a changing room with a biological male trans woman", and "not taking seriously" their concerns.
After the Supreme Court decision on biological sex (still not implemented by the Govt) and the Sandy Pegge case, it this another example of common sense returning to the Trans issue ?"
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This is one that makes my teeth tangled, on the one hand I cant see what the problem is, on the other I appreciate it's something some people feel uncomfortable about.
I'd like to know from the women concerned what their objection is, are they worried about being observed sexually or is it about being naked around a biological male who regards themselves as female. I dont know many trans women but those I do you'd never know, is it reasonable then to ask them to use male changing rooms?
Given the lifestyle we're engaged in here most of us are not threatened by being naked in the company of others including those of the opposite whether we choose to have a sexual encounter with them or not!
It's a compelling talking point though and should get us to engage some critical thinking rather than a knee jerk reaction to something we initially might find shocking xx |
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By *G LanaTV/TS 16 weeks ago
Gosport |
Lets be fair the nurses were only partially successful as all their accusations against Rose Henderson were dismissed as were some against the trust.
Although this hasn't apparently stopped Bethany Hutchinson from making potentially defamatory statements implying trans women are dangerous and by clear implication Rose as she was apparently the only known trans woman at the trust. |
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By *G LanaTV/TS 16 weeks ago
Gosport |
What seems to differentiate this case from the earlier NHS Fife and Leonardo tribunals was that seemingly, at least initially, there was only one womens changing room the Day Surgery staff were assigned to use. In the earlier cases there were multiple women's facilities. |
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"... is this another example of common sense returning to the Trans issue ?"
Not really. The court has decided that allowing a biological male into a women's changing room and giving those who objected no alternative facility was against the law, but this was inevitable given the Supreme Court ruling on the interpretation of the Equality Act. The other claims made by the claimants were dismissed, so there's no ruling here that changes anything.
It seems to me that those who are strongly anti-trans will continue to be so and think that this is a vindication of their position, while those that are strongly pro-trans will continue to be so and think that this court case is a terrible blow to their rights.
The rest of us will continue wondering why we can't all get along, and why some small groups feel the need to impose their views upon everyone else. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP 16 weeks ago
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"Lets be fair the nurses were only partially successful as all their accusations against Rose Henderson were dismissed as were some against the trust.
Although this hasn't apparently stopped Bethany Hutchinson from making potentially defamatory statements implying trans women are dangerous and by clear implication Rose as she was apparently the only known trans woman at the trust."
They won on their main claim of harassment and unfair treatment. The parts of their case which failed were only ever minor ones. |
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By *G LanaTV/TS 16 weeks ago
Gosport |
This was still clearly a loss for those seeking to prove that trans presence is inherently harassment. The judge was careful to blame the employer and the policy, rather than the trans individual, suggesting that the solution is better infrastructure (like individual cubicles or dedicated spaces) rather than the exclusion of trans people from the workplace.
The ruling did not say trans people cannot use facilities; it said the Trust failed to provide suitable alternatives or balance the rights of everyone. It highlighted a managerial failure rather than a legal ban on trans inclusion.
This is far more nuanced that our media will report because that doesn't advance their gender-critical narratives.
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"They won on their main claim of harassment and unfair treatment. The parts of their case which failed were only ever minor ones."
That's inaccurate. One of their main claims was that Rose Henderson directly harassed them by behaving in an overtly sexual manner, and by pointedly observing the women undressing. That claim was dismissed. |
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"I don't know what the answer is but men in a womens changing room isn't it"
This..
The legislation needs to be clarified to give everyone a safe and appropriate space in the workplace..
After the Supreme Court ruling it should be sorted.. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP 16 weeks ago
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"They won on their main claim of harassment and unfair treatment. The parts of their case which failed were only ever minor ones.
That's inaccurate. One of their main claims was that Rose Henderson directly harassed them by behaving in an overtly sexual manner, and by pointedly observing the women undressing. That claim was dismissed."
No that wasn't the main body of the claim. The judgment is online for anyone to read. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP 16 weeks ago
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To clarify the law, this was a decision of an employment tribunal so clearly the main claim and successful judgement was against the nurses employers, the NHS Trust and their legal responsibilities and behaviour. This was not a civil case for damages against Rose Henderson. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP 16 weeks ago
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Worth noting that the nurses, like Sandy Peggie, had to privately fund their action with no Union support, while the NHS Trusts spent 100,000s of public money on fighting both cases rather than settle. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP 16 weeks ago
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"This was still clearly a loss for those seeking to prove that trans presence is inherently harassment. The judge was careful to blame the employer and the policy, rather than the trans individual, suggesting that the solution is better infrastructure (like individual cubicles or dedicated spaces) rather than the exclusion of trans people from the workplace.
The ruling did not say trans people cannot use facilities; it said the Trust failed to provide suitable alternatives or balance the rights of everyone. It highlighted a managerial failure rather than a legal ban on trans inclusion.
This is far more nuanced that our media will report because that doesn't advance their gender-critical narratives.
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No part of the claims or the judgement suggested 'exclusion of trans people from the workplace.' |
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By *G LanaTV/TS 16 weeks ago
Gosport |
It may not have been part of the claims but is a very clear objective of the Christian Legal Centre which is the legal arm of Christian Concern who were primary organisation funding the case. Further funding was apparently provided by JK Rowling and additional backing from Sex Matters both of which long term objectives to push trans exclusion are blatantly obvious. |
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What people should be worrying about is whether biological females are worried about sharing intimate spaces with biological males. If no complaints are made, then all is good.
However, regardless of how somebody identifies, if there is an objection, the ruling in the high Court supports the exclusion of TG or TS biological males from those spaces.
Based on that, I'm not sure of how it can now be legally argued in any other way. The funding of cases and the motives of each involved party are a red herring. |
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As someone else above pointed out. Being in this lifestyle most of us are not uncomfortable being naked in front of others. Mrs H wouldn't bat an eyelid if a man came into a room while she was naked. For my ex Mrs it would be a completely different matter.
However the vast majority are not swingers and/or naturists.
Most women are very uncomfortable being in a state of undress in male company, no matter how they identify, and are fully entitled to have their dignity respected.
While I do have empathy with trans people (but not the militant trans lobby) safe spaces for women must be protected and preserved. |
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All comes down to if you pass or not ultimately as it always has. If you pass and blend snd keep your trans status private no one knows / issues. Thst my experience in last 17 years anyway. So I just crack on as usual |
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"As someone else above pointed out. Being in this lifestyle most of us are not uncomfortable being naked in front of others. Mrs H wouldn't bat an eyelid if a man came into a room while she was naked. For my ex Mrs it would be a completely different matter.
However the vast majority are not swingers and/or naturists.
Most women are very uncomfortable being in a state of undress in male company, no matter how they identify, and are fully entitled to have their dignity respected.
While I do have empathy with trans people (but not the militant trans lobby) safe spaces for women must be protected and preserved."
Here is the sensible answer. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP 16 weeks ago
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"As someone else above pointed out. Being in this lifestyle most of us are not uncomfortable being naked in front of others. Mrs H wouldn't bat an eyelid if a man came into a room while she was naked."
I might pop round later  |
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It's depressing being a trans person in the UK now. All we get is hatred, false fears and discrimination. Some of the views in this thread show you that.
Ten year waiting lists for (fasttrack!) healthcare, lies and suggestions we are all sex predators when all we want to do is get on with our lives.
No-one transitions and all the shit we have to go through to perv on people in a changing room. We would all prefer private cubicles. Most of us actively avoid at all costs an open changing area. The poor trans woman in the Darlington case had no judgement of wrong doing on her behalf. None!
But the level of vitriol and hate thrown at us (and it's microaggressions) such as I'm not transphobic but I just care for women's rights. Perhaps if people were more honest with themselves they would admit that is not entirely the truth. It never is.
We have been in the bathrooms for over twenty years (and a lot longer) and none gave a fk and more likely that we get assaulted then the reverse. And i tell you what, after a short period on hormones even with tackle, it ain't going to do much.
It's really made life extremely unpleasant to be constantly assaulted by the press, called militants, an ideology, a fetish and God knows what.
We are people trying to live out lives as best we can.
Many of us, me included are just tired. Tired of being the community whipping board, tired of not being able to get a job, tired of the aggression for something that really isn't an issue in the honest, non stacked, facts.
It's truly becoming hard to keep on living when despised so much, through no fault of our own. I didn't ask to have this trans shit in my life, but I was born with it.
Believe me if I could have lived happily in my birth sex then all good - but I was going to end up dead by my own hand.
In modern Britain, I may have bought myself some time transitioning, but the hatred of us now takes me back to a dark place. It's relentless. Even I find it on what is meant to be a fun space, such as here.
As Helen Joyce, leading anti trans person said: " every trans person is a problem for a sane world."
Well. That's because of the way we are being treated, and given how intolerable it is, including this "innocent post", I'm thinking to check myself out and you can have one less trans person to give a toss about. Then find your next targets to scapegoat. Look at history - we are just the latest moral panic.
If someone does the wrong thing, hold them accountable. Not a whole community. Don't fall for the lies and easy tropes. Trans women are not winning any Olympic medals.
Trans women are not men. And that is why men thinking would they like another man in the female toilets is so easy to be concerned with. we are not. We don't sit wanking in stalls in the ladies loo. We just don't. And yes you can always find one weirdo example of a derranged individual somewhere to quote.
Now no trans person will say they can change sex. Gender identity however is very different, and multifaceted. Year 12 biology by the way is not nuanced enough / it is recognised that even sex itself is complicated.
I really hate life now in the UK. I truly don't know how much more I can take before going over the edge. Literally.
Some of you no doubt will cheer. Take a good long hard look at yourselves. You must have a happy life to be so obsessed with the small number of us.
Thanks for making my life just a little bit more shit than it is. I hope that gives you some satisfaction. |
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