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Trump vs Minnesota
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"I can't understand how they allowed him to break free." He didn't "break free" | |||
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"I cant comment on whether the person they shot had managed to draw a weapon and that is when the shots began. What I can say is the ICE agents did not detain him efficiently considering their numbers and that led to the final incident. I can't understand how they allowed him to break free." You dont break free with that many men holding you down | |||
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"I cant comment on whether the person they shot had managed to draw a weapon and that is when the shots began. What I can say is the ICE agents did not detain him efficiently considering their numbers and that led to the final incident. I can't understand how they allowed him to break free. You dont break free with that many men holding you down " He think he did momentarily and got to what I would say, on to his knees, you can either see that or not. It is not something I'm going to argue about though as it will become more event as time goes by. | |||
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"No doubt the usual suspects will be along to explain why this was fully justified." One has already tried, but not made a great case. | |||
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"I have now seen several angles of this tragedy and I honestly cant see how it ended in gun fire. I was also initially unaware that there was more than 1 person ICE was dealing with in the melee that unfolded. I'm curious to know how people in this thread came to their conclusions so quickly? Is little evidence enough to hang your flag to the pole, and do you believe what "you" see is enough to come to a decision so quickly? " I am guessing it could be the speed at which certain networks decided to show certain videos… For example, from the video in the coffee shop across the road.. you notice a woman with a pink jumper recording what happened… Now.. I was watching the local NBC affiliate, WCCO Minneapolis, coverage…. They showed the pink jumper woman’s mobile phone video ( which is the one where you see the entire incident) … CNN didn’t start showing the same video for a good 4-5 hours later Maybe it took them a lot longer to verify and get permission to show it… but I can imagine that can help stoke a narrative DHS were very quick to put out a version to try and set a tone and justify.. but it fulls apart with every different video that comes out Trying to smear someone as a domestic terrorist might work if you are an immigrant… much harder is the person you are trying to smear is an ICU nurse for the VA Bovino should go, Noem should go, Miller should go just for the smear alone! | |||
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"I have now seen several angles of this tragedy and I honestly cant see how it ended in gun fire. I was also initially unaware that there was more than 1 person ICE was dealing with in the melee that unfolded. I'm curious to know how people in this thread came to their conclusions so quickly? Is little evidence enough to hang your flag to the pole, and do you believe what "you" see is enough to come to a decision so quickly? " The videos were there that showed the lies being put out by the administration are simply that.. A deliberate malicious attempt to smear a person lawfully protesting who only had a phone in his hand, not his handgun which many are legally allowed to carry.. The rest was out there, not all as theres more this morning but enough to show he didnt act as Trump etc described.. Execution simple as and there has to someone accountable because at some point there will be a response.. Or is that what some in power actually want or see as the next step.. | |||
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"I have now seen several angles of this tragedy and I honestly cant see how it ended in gun fire. I was also initially unaware that there was more than 1 person ICE was dealing with in the melee that unfolded. I'm curious to know how people in this thread came to their conclusions so quickly? Is little evidence enough to hang your flag to the pole, and do you believe what "you" see is enough to come to a decision so quickly? The videos were there that showed the lies being put out by the administration are simply that.. A deliberate malicious attempt to smear a person lawfully protesting who only had a phone in his hand, not his handgun which many are legally allowed to carry.. The rest was out there, not all as theres more this morning but enough to show he didnt act as Trump etc described.. Execution simple as and there has to someone accountable because at some point there will be a response.. Or is that what some in power actually want or see as the next step.." Civil War / Greenland / whatever detracts from Epstein | |||
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"America can now hardly stand as a beacon of democracy......What's equally appalling is the lack of condemnation from other heads of state ! " Not the done thing in normal circumstances etc, let the country in question especially if its an 'ally' deal with it.. If its a regime not liked then there'll be a public condemnation etc but sometimes pointing the finger reflects as we like most ain't exactly clean hands wise.. | |||
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"I mean, who doesn't take a handgun to a peaceful protest ? Clearly totally unnecessary killing by ICE and hopefully consequences will follow but the context is well funded far left activism against Federal action to remove illegal and criminal migrants, with a clear tactic to provoke confrontation that will inevitably lead to tragedies like this. No outrage of course about the 1000s of murders, r@pes and other crimes committed by people with no right to be in the US. No outrage about the refusal of Democrat States to co-operate with the legal removal of those people. No mention about the many deaths related to ICE action that occurred under Obama and Biden. And of course most of the people outraged by two tragic deaths in Minnesota are totally silent on 50,000 deaths of peaceful protesters in Iran. What a mystery that is.. " 35 deaths last year of people in Ice custody I think it's 4 already this year. | |||
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"I mean, who doesn't take a handgun to a peaceful protest ? Clearly totally unnecessary killing by ICE and hopefully consequences will follow but the context is well funded far left activism against Federal action to remove illegal and criminal migrants, with a clear tactic to provoke confrontation that will inevitably lead to tragedies like this. No outrage of course about the 1000s of murders, r@pes and other crimes committed by people with no right to be in the US. No outrage about the refusal of Democrat States to co-operate with the legal removal of those people. No mention about the many deaths related to ICE action that occurred under Obama and Biden. And of course most of the people outraged by two tragic deaths in Minnesota are totally silent on 50,000 deaths of peaceful protesters in Iran. What a mystery that is.. 35 deaths last year of people in Ice custody I think it's 4 already this year. " There is clearly a long standing issue with ICE training and discipline that goes back decades. I believe 86 died under Obama. | |||
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"It's a deplorable event and the agents involved should be investigated, it seems they are above the law Trump's personal Gestapo . One thing I will say AND IT'S NOT AN EXCUSE FOR WHAT HAPPENED. So it's easy to comment when it's not our culture but if I was going to a protest knowing that these lunatics are policing it, if it's my right or not I certainly wouldn't be taking a gun, holstered or not. I'm not sure if the victims execution had any bearing on him carrying a gun, but I personally wouldn't take one. What's ironic is ( I got shouted down for this comment recently) Trump condemning the recent events in Iran whilst this is happening in his own country on a smaller scale. " Its a 'carry State' with a permit both open and concealed can be on the person.. To the Mall, to the baseball game, to the church etc.. | |||
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" And of course most of the people outraged by two tragic deaths in Minnesota are totally silent on 50,000 deaths of peaceful protesters in Iran. What a mystery that is.. " Are they? On here ..? Are you sure about that..  | |||
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"I mean, who doesn't take a handgun to a peaceful protest ? Clearly totally unnecessary killing by ICE and hopefully consequences will follow but the context is well funded far left activism against Federal action to remove illegal and criminal migrants, with a clear tactic to provoke confrontation that will inevitably lead to tragedies like this. No outrage of course about the 1000s of murders, r@pes and other crimes committed by people with no right to be in the US. No outrage about the refusal of Democrat States to co-operate with the legal removal of those people. No mention about the many deaths related to ICE action that occurred under Obama and Biden. And of course most of the people outraged by two tragic deaths in Minnesota are totally silent on 50,000 deaths of peaceful protesters in Iran. What a mystery that is.. 35 deaths last year of people in Ice custody I think it's 4 already this year. " Don't think Tallstories cares as long as the victims are all non white or lefties. | |||
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"It's a deplorable event and the agents involved should be investigated, it seems they are above the law Trump's personal Gestapo . One thing I will say AND IT'S NOT AN EXCUSE FOR WHAT HAPPENED. So it's easy to comment when it's not our culture but if I was going to a protest knowing that these lunatics are policing it, if it's my right or not I certainly wouldn't be taking a gun, holstered or not. I'm not sure if the victims execution had any bearing on him carrying a gun, but I personally wouldn't take one. What's ironic is ( I got shouted down for this comment recently) Trump condemning the recent events in Iran whilst this is happening in his own country on a smaller scale. Its a 'carry State' with a permit both open and concealed can be on the person.. To the Mall, to the baseball game, to the church etc.. " now that bad guys with guns have openly murdered a good guy with a gun, should somebody tell wayne la pierre that he got it wrong? | |||
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" And of course most of the people outraged by two tragic deaths in Minnesota are totally silent on 50,000 deaths of peaceful protesters in Iran. What a mystery that is.. Are they? On here ..? Are you sure about that.. "Yes, because I've checked. The OP for example. | |||
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" 35 deaths last year of people in Ice custody I think it's 4 already this year. There is clearly a long standing issue with ICE training and discipline that goes back decades. I believe 86 died under Obama." There's cases ongoing over deaths in custody which under both the administrations since ICE was brought in has been by far the majority.. Street execution, (some saying two) in three weeks is clearly another low level and an indication as Senior justice officials country wide have said is the lack of training for them.. Its an issue that needs addressing but the current lot seem intent on letting them run about unchecked and that's not sensible or right.. | |||
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"I mean, who doesn't take a handgun to a peaceful protest ? Clearly totally unnecessary killing by ICE and hopefully consequences will follow but the context is well funded far left activism against Federal action to remove illegal and criminal migrants, with a clear tactic to provoke confrontation that will inevitably lead to tragedies like this. No outrage of course about the 1000s of murders, r@pes and other crimes committed by people with no right to be in the US. No outrage about the refusal of Democrat States to co-operate with the legal removal of those people. No mention about the many deaths related to ICE action that occurred under Obama and Biden. And of course most of the people outraged by two tragic deaths in Minnesota are totally silent on 50,000 deaths of peaceful protesters in Iran. What a mystery that is.. 35 deaths last year of people in Ice custody I think it's 4 already this year. Don't think Tallstories cares as long as the victims are all non white or lefties." I've posted more than anyone about the mass killings in Iran where the victims were certainly 'non white'. I've looked for your comments on that issue but no luck so far. | |||
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" And of course most of the people outraged by two tragic deaths in Minnesota are totally silent on 50,000 deaths of peaceful protesters in Iran. What a mystery that is.. Are they? On here ..? Are you sure about that..
Yes, because I've checked. The OP for example."One then.. | |||
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"I have now seen several angles of this tragedy and I honestly cant see how it ended in gun fire. I was also initially unaware that there was more than 1 person ICE was dealing with in the melee that unfolded. I'm curious to know how people in this thread came to their conclusions so quickly? Is little evidence enough to hang your flag to the pole, and do you believe what "you" see is enough to come to a decision so quickly? I am guessing it could be the speed at which certain networks decided to show certain videos… For example, from the video in the coffee shop across the road.. you notice a woman with a pink jumper recording what happened… Now.. I was watching the local NBC affiliate, WCCO Minneapolis, coverage…. They showed the pink jumper woman’s mobile phone video ( which is the one where you see the entire incident) … CNN didn’t start showing the same video for a good 4-5 hours later Maybe it took them a lot longer to verify and get permission to show it… but I can imagine that can help stoke a narrative DHS were very quick to put out a version to try and set a tone and justify.. but it fulls apart with every different video that comes out Trying to smear someone as a domestic terrorist might work if you are an immigrant… much harder is the person you are trying to smear is an ICU nurse for the VA Bovino should go, Noem should go, Miller should go just for the smear alone! " I have seen a new angle that appears to show the agent who took the gun from Alex Pretti, discharge it, I assume by accident. A second agent who had drawn his weapon on seeing Pretti had a gun shoots him when the first agent fired Pretti's gun. What an awful outcome, so many things could have been avoided. | |||
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" 35 deaths last year of people in Ice custody I think it's 4 already this year. There is clearly a long standing issue with ICE training and discipline that goes back decades. I believe 86 died under Obama. There's cases ongoing over deaths in custody which under both the administrations since ICE was brought in has been by far the majority.. Street execution, (some saying two) in three weeks is clearly another low level and an indication as Senior justice officials country wide have said is the lack of training for them.. Its an issue that needs addressing but the current lot seem intent on letting them run about unchecked and that's not sensible or right.. " It not help the situation if local law enforcement carried out the actions again illegal migrants, but many Democratic States and Cities do not allow that. | |||
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" And of course most of the people outraged by two tragic deaths in Minnesota are totally silent on 50,000 deaths of peaceful protesters in Iran. What a mystery that is.. Are they? On here ..? Are you sure about that..
Yes, because I've checked. The OP for example.
One then.."The threads are there for you or anyone else to check, I'm not going to derail this one naming and shaming. | |||
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"I mean, who doesn't take a handgun to a peaceful protest ? Clearly totally unnecessary killing by ICE and hopefully consequences will follow but the context is well funded far left activism against Federal action to remove illegal and criminal migrants, with a clear tactic to provoke confrontation that will inevitably lead to tragedies like this. No outrage of course about the 1000s of murders, r@pes and other crimes committed by people with no right to be in the US. No outrage about the refusal of Democrat States to co-operate with the legal removal of those people. No mention about the many deaths related to ICE action that occurred under Obama and Biden. And of course most of the people outraged by two tragic deaths in Minnesota are totally silent on 50,000 deaths of peaceful protesters in Iran. What a mystery that is.. 35 deaths last year of people in Ice custody I think it's 4 already this year. Don't think Tallstories cares as long as the victims are all non white or lefties. I've posted more than anyone about the mass killings in Iran where the victims were certainly 'non white'. I've looked for your comments on that issue but no luck so far." Again as yesterday you or anyone can not dictate how and when people post on a subject.. That's the mods job and even they dont go about trying to stifle or deflect others posts based upon what you are trying to do.. | |||
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"I mean, who doesn't take a handgun to a peaceful protest ? Clearly totally unnecessary killing by ICE and hopefully consequences will follow but the context is well funded far left activism against Federal action to remove illegal and criminal migrants, with a clear tactic to provoke confrontation that will inevitably lead to tragedies like this. No outrage of course about the 1000s of murders, r@pes and other crimes committed by people with no right to be in the US. No outrage about the refusal of Democrat States to co-operate with the legal removal of those people. No mention about the many deaths related to ICE action that occurred under Obama and Biden. And of course most of the people outraged by two tragic deaths in Minnesota are totally silent on 50,000 deaths of peaceful protesters in Iran. What a mystery that is.. 35 deaths last year of people in Ice custody I think it's 4 already this year. Don't think Tallstories cares as long as the victims are all non white or lefties. I've posted more than anyone about the mass killings in Iran where the victims were certainly 'non white'. I've looked for your comments on that issue but no luck so far. Again as yesterday you or anyone can not dictate how and when people post on a subject.. That's the mods job and even they dont go about trying to stifle or deflect others posts based upon what you are trying to do.. "  | |||
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"I mean, who doesn't take a handgun to a peaceful protest ? Clearly totally unnecessary killing by ICE and hopefully consequences will follow but the context is well funded far left activism against Federal action to remove illegal and criminal migrants, with a clear tactic to provoke confrontation that will inevitably lead to tragedies like this. No outrage of course about the 1000s of murders, r@pes and other crimes committed by people with no right to be in the US. No outrage about the refusal of Democrat States to co-operate with the legal removal of those people. No mention about the many deaths related to ICE action that occurred under Obama and Biden. And of course most of the people outraged by two tragic deaths in Minnesota are totally silent on 50,000 deaths of peaceful protesters in Iran. What a mystery that is.. 35 deaths last year of people in Ice custody I think it's 4 already this year. Don't think Tallstories cares as long as the victims are all non white or lefties. I've posted more than anyone about the mass killings in Iran where the victims were certainly 'non white'. I've looked for your comments on that issue but no luck so far. Again as yesterday you or anyone can not dictate how and when people post on a subject.. That's the mods job and even they dont go about trying to stifle or deflect others posts based upon what you are trying to do.. " Weird way to debate. Didn't see your post on this subject so what you say doesn't count. Not all of us spend every waking hour on fabs politics forum. | |||
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" And of course most of the people outraged by two tragic deaths in Minnesota are totally silent on 50,000 deaths of peaceful protesters in Iran. What a mystery that is.. Are they? On here ..? Are you sure about that..
Yes, because I've checked. The OP for example.
One then..
The threads are there for you or anyone else to check, I'm not going to derail this one naming and shaming."Good cos that's not allowed.. Possibly Tall you missed out 'even more so than I usually do', after shaming.. Tbh someone who is from that country, has family there and possibly friends in the areas being affected by this issue doesn't need to 'justify' to anyone how and what they have previously posted .. Thonk the term is 'skin in the game'. | |||
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"I mean, who doesn't take a handgun to a peaceful protest ? Clearly totally unnecessary killing by ICE and hopefully consequences will follow but the context is well funded far left activism against Federal action to remove illegal and criminal migrants, with a clear tactic to provoke confrontation that will inevitably lead to tragedies like this. No outrage of course about the 1000s of murders, r@pes and other crimes committed by people with no right to be in the US. No outrage about the refusal of Democrat States to co-operate with the legal removal of those people. No mention about the many deaths related to ICE action that occurred under Obama and Biden. And of course most of the people outraged by two tragic deaths in Minnesota are totally silent on 50,000 deaths of peaceful protesters in Iran. What a mystery that is.. 35 deaths last year of people in Ice custody I think it's 4 already this year. Don't think Tallstories cares as long as the victims are all non white or lefties. I've posted more than anyone about the mass killings in Iran where the victims were certainly 'non white'. I've looked for your comments on that issue but no luck so far. Again as yesterday you or anyone can not dictate how and when people post on a subject.. That's the mods job and even they dont go about trying to stifle or deflect others posts based upon what you are trying to do.. Weird way to debate. Didn't see your post on this subject so what you say doesn't count. Not all of us spend every waking hour on fabs politics forum." I was responding to Tall.. | |||
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"I mean, who doesn't take a handgun to a peaceful protest ? Clearly totally unnecessary killing by ICE and hopefully consequences will follow but the context is well funded far left activism against Federal action to remove illegal and criminal migrants, with a clear tactic to provoke confrontation that will inevitably lead to tragedies like this. No outrage of course about the 1000s of murders, r@pes and other crimes committed by people with no right to be in the US. No outrage about the refusal of Democrat States to co-operate with the legal removal of those people. No mention about the many deaths related to ICE action that occurred under Obama and Biden. And of course most of the people outraged by two tragic deaths in Minnesota are totally silent on 50,000 deaths of peaceful protesters in Iran. What a mystery that is.. 35 deaths last year of people in Ice custody I think it's 4 already this year. Don't think Tallstories cares as long as the victims are all non white or lefties. I've posted more than anyone about the mass killings in Iran where the victims were certainly 'non white'. I've looked for your comments on that issue but no luck so far. Again as yesterday you or anyone can not dictate how and when people post on a subject.. That's the mods job and even they dont go about trying to stifle or deflect others posts based upon what you are trying to do.. Weird way to debate. Didn't see your post on this subject so what you say doesn't count. Not all of us spend every waking hour on fabs politics forum. I was responding to Tall.. " Apologies, my response was aimed at his response also. | |||
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"I mean, who doesn't take a handgun to a peaceful protest ? Clearly totally unnecessary killing by ICE and hopefully consequences will follow but the context is well funded far left activism against Federal action to remove illegal and criminal migrants, with a clear tactic to provoke confrontation that will inevitably lead to tragedies like this. No outrage of course about the 1000s of murders, r@pes and other crimes committed by people with no right to be in the US. No outrage about the refusal of Democrat States to co-operate with the legal removal of those people. No mention about the many deaths related to ICE action that occurred under Obama and Biden. And of course most of the people outraged by two tragic deaths in Minnesota are totally silent on 50,000 deaths of peaceful protesters in Iran. What a mystery that is.. 35 deaths last year of people in Ice custody I think it's 4 already this year. Don't think Tallstories cares as long as the victims are all non white or lefties. I've posted more than anyone about the mass killings in Iran where the victims were certainly 'non white'. I've looked for your comments on that issue but no luck so far. Again as yesterday you or anyone can not dictate how and when people post on a subject.. That's the mods job and even they dont go about trying to stifle or deflect others posts based upon what you are trying to do.. Weird way to debate. Didn't see your post on this subject so what you say doesn't count. Not all of us spend every waking hour on fabs politics forum. I was responding to Tall.. Apologies, my response was aimed at his response also. " No worries.. | |||
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"I have now seen several angles of this tragedy and I honestly cant see how it ended in gun fire. I was also initially unaware that there was more than 1 person ICE was dealing with in the melee that unfolded. I'm curious to know how people in this thread came to their conclusions so quickly? Is little evidence enough to hang your flag to the pole, and do you believe what "you" see is enough to come to a decision so quickly? I am guessing it could be the speed at which certain networks decided to show certain videos… For example, from the video in the coffee shop across the road.. you notice a woman with a pink jumper recording what happened… Now.. I was watching the local NBC affiliate, WCCO Minneapolis, coverage…. They showed the pink jumper woman’s mobile phone video ( which is the one where you see the entire incident) … CNN didn’t start showing the same video for a good 4-5 hours later Maybe it took them a lot longer to verify and get permission to show it… but I can imagine that can help stoke a narrative DHS were very quick to put out a version to try and set a tone and justify.. but it fulls apart with every different video that comes out Trying to smear someone as a domestic terrorist might work if you are an immigrant… much harder is the person you are trying to smear is an ICU nurse for the VA Bovino should go, Noem should go, Miller should go just for the smear alone! I have seen a new angle that appears to show the agent who took the gun from Alex Pretti, discharge it, I assume by accident. A second agent who had drawn his weapon on seeing Pretti had a gun shoots him when the first agent fired Pretti's gun. What an awful outcome, so many things could have been avoided. " On current evidence this seems the most likely explanation. Badly trained officers under pressure reacting to a gunshot. There needs to be de-escalation on both sides here. ICE need to be reigned in and told to withdraw from certain situations, and Democratic politicians and NGOs need to stop encouraging and funding protesters to confront armed officers doing their job. I don't have much hope either will happen. | |||
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"I have now seen several angles of this tragedy and I honestly cant see how it ended in gun fire. I was also initially unaware that there was more than 1 person ICE was dealing with in the melee that unfolded. I'm curious to know how people in this thread came to their conclusions so quickly? Is little evidence enough to hang your flag to the pole, and do you believe what "you" see is enough to come to a decision so quickly? I am guessing it could be the speed at which certain networks decided to show certain videos… For example, from the video in the coffee shop across the road.. you notice a woman with a pink jumper recording what happened… Now.. I was watching the local NBC affiliate, WCCO Minneapolis, coverage…. They showed the pink jumper woman’s mobile phone video ( which is the one where you see the entire incident) … CNN didn’t start showing the same video for a good 4-5 hours later Maybe it took them a lot longer to verify and get permission to show it… but I can imagine that can help stoke a narrative DHS were very quick to put out a version to try and set a tone and justify.. but it fulls apart with every different video that comes out Trying to smear someone as a domestic terrorist might work if you are an immigrant… much harder is the person you are trying to smear is an ICU nurse for the VA Bovino should go, Noem should go, Miller should go just for the smear alone! I have seen a new angle that appears to show the agent who took the gun from Alex Pretti, discharge it, I assume by accident. A second agent who had drawn his weapon on seeing Pretti had a gun shoots him when the first agent fired Pretti's gun. What an awful outcome, so many things could have been avoided. On current evidence this seems the most likely explanation. Badly trained officers under pressure reacting to a gunshot. There needs to be de-escalation on both sides here. ICE need to be reigned in and told to withdraw from certain situations, and Democratic politicians and NGOs need to stop encouraging and funding protesters to confront armed officers doing their job. I don't have much hope either will happen." There is no middle ground, both sides are focused only on their outcomes. The sad part is it is a politically led and the people at the top of the pile will be milking another death for all its worth, that is both sides. I'm not sure why people would turn up with guns to a protest that is more likely than not to end in physical clashes with agents that are not the brightest! I know it is their right, but it is also their right to not carry in that situation. In fact, I think it could be a great move to decalre they are not carrying | |||
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"I have now seen several angles of this tragedy and I honestly cant see how it ended in gun fire. I was also initially unaware that there was more than 1 person ICE was dealing with in the melee that unfolded. I'm curious to know how people in this thread came to their conclusions so quickly? Is little evidence enough to hang your flag to the pole, and do you believe what "you" see is enough to come to a decision so quickly? I am guessing it could be the speed at which certain networks decided to show certain videos… For example, from the video in the coffee shop across the road.. you notice a woman with a pink jumper recording what happened… Now.. I was watching the local NBC affiliate, WCCO Minneapolis, coverage…. They showed the pink jumper woman’s mobile phone video ( which is the one where you see the entire incident) … CNN didn’t start showing the same video for a good 4-5 hours later Maybe it took them a lot longer to verify and get permission to show it… but I can imagine that can help stoke a narrative DHS were very quick to put out a version to try and set a tone and justify.. but it fulls apart with every different video that comes out Trying to smear someone as a domestic terrorist might work if you are an immigrant… much harder is the person you are trying to smear is an ICU nurse for the VA Bovino should go, Noem should go, Miller should go just for the smear alone! I have seen a new angle that appears to show the agent who took the gun from Alex Pretti, discharge it, I assume by accident. A second agent who had drawn his weapon on seeing Pretti had a gun shoots him when the first agent fired Pretti's gun. What an awful outcome, so many things could have been avoided. On current evidence this seems the most likely explanation. Badly trained officers under pressure reacting to a gunshot. There needs to be de-escalation on both sides here. ICE need to be reigned in and told to withdraw from certain situations, and Democratic politicians and NGOs need to stop encouraging and funding protesters to confront armed officers doing their job. I don't have much hope either will happen. There is no middle ground, both sides are focused only on their outcomes. The sad part is it is a politically led and the people at the top of the pile will be milking another death for all its worth, that is both sides. I'm not sure why people would turn up with guns to a protest that is more likely than not to end in physical clashes with agents that are not the brightest! I know it is their right, but it is also their right to not carry in that situation. In fact, I think it could be a great move to decalre they are not carrying" Its in their constitution.. And when its a nutter killing kids the outcry for greater gun control by anyone is drowned out by that fact from the NFA and overwhelmingly those on the right of the politics.. Trying to mandate that in a permit free carrying State by anyone isn't going to go well.. Also dictating how citizens can lawfully and peaceful protest ditto, just because they're 'liberals'.. | |||
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"I have now seen several angles of this tragedy and I honestly cant see how it ended in gun fire. I was also initially unaware that there was more than 1 person ICE was dealing with in the melee that unfolded. I'm curious to know how people in this thread came to their conclusions so quickly? Is little evidence enough to hang your flag to the pole, and do you believe what "you" see is enough to come to a decision so quickly? The videos were there that showed the lies being put out by the administration are simply that.. A deliberate malicious attempt to smear a person lawfully protesting who only had a phone in his hand, not his handgun which many are legally allowed to carry.. The rest was out there, not all as theres more this morning but enough to show he didnt act as Trump etc described.. Execution simple as and there has to someone accountable because at some point there will be a response.. Or is that what some in power actually want or see as the next step.. Civil War / Greenland / whatever detracts from Epstein" ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ Bunch of (powerful) pedophiles | |||
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" It not help the situation if local law enforcement carried out the actions again illegal migrants, but many Democratic States and Cities do not allow that." Here is the thing, that is not quite true …. They actually do help! Where they have already been arrested and/or jailed/or about to be released from jail the state do cooperate with the federal authorities (how do you think DHS and ICE pad their figures for removals!) What local police don’t help ICE with are the random raids and for people with no criminal records If you are going through the immigration process, you are NOT illegal | |||
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"I have now seen several angles of this tragedy and I honestly cant see how it ended in gun fire. I was also initially unaware that there was more than 1 person ICE was dealing with in the melee that unfolded. I'm curious to know how people in this thread came to their conclusions so quickly? Is little evidence enough to hang your flag to the pole, and do you believe what "you" see is enough to come to a decision so quickly? I am guessing it could be the speed at which certain networks decided to show certain videos… For example, from the video in the coffee shop across the road.. you notice a woman with a pink jumper recording what happened… Now.. I was watching the local NBC affiliate, WCCO Minneapolis, coverage…. They showed the pink jumper woman’s mobile phone video ( which is the one where you see the entire incident) … CNN didn’t start showing the same video for a good 4-5 hours later Maybe it took them a lot longer to verify and get permission to show it… but I can imagine that can help stoke a narrative DHS were very quick to put out a version to try and set a tone and justify.. but it fulls apart with every different video that comes out Trying to smear someone as a domestic terrorist might work if you are an immigrant… much harder is the person you are trying to smear is an ICU nurse for the VA Bovino should go, Noem should go, Miller should go just for the smear alone! I have seen a new angle that appears to show the agent who took the gun from Alex Pretti, discharge it, I assume by accident. A second agent who had drawn his weapon on seeing Pretti had a gun shoots him when the first agent fired Pretti's gun. What an awful outcome, so many things could have been avoided. On current evidence this seems the most likely explanation. Badly trained officers under pressure reacting to a gunshot. There needs to be de-escalation on both sides here. ICE need to be reigned in and told to withdraw from certain situations, and Democratic politicians and NGOs need to stop encouraging and funding protesters to confront armed officers doing their job. I don't have much hope either will happen. There is no middle ground, both sides are focused only on their outcomes. The sad part is it is a politically led and the people at the top of the pile will be milking another death for all its worth, that is both sides. I'm not sure why people would turn up with guns to a protest that is more likely than not to end in physical clashes with agents that are not the brightest! I know it is their right, but it is also their right to not carry in that situation. In fact, I think it could be a great move to decalre they are not carrying" Very well said. Trump and Governor Waltz (who's having to stand down because he's heavily implicated in massive fraud) are both encouraging 'their' side from a safe distance with little regard for safety of either the protesters or ICE agents. | |||
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"One more murder by firearm (15,000+ last year) Two by ICE Assassination attempts on Trump 100,000 tonnes USA munitions dropped on Gaza Every TV cop show involves either a firearm or a murder. An estimated 400,000,000 firearms in USA Largest defence budget on the globe by some margin This latest incident should be of no surprise Only USA can resolve this. " Very important context. It's surprising to hear people who rightly call for more gun control thinking its fine to rock up to a peaceful protest with a powerful weapon! 🤷 | |||
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"and yet the rightwings posterboy Kyle Ritenhouse was fine turning up to a protest with ar-15 semi-automatic assault rifle 🤷" I wouldn't be surprised, if same the same people accusing, Alex Pretti of escalating the situation by carrying a gun in his holster. Were on the opposite side of the fence when it came armed Capitol hill protesters marching on the Capitol building. | |||
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" Very important context. It's surprising to hear people who rightly call for more gun control thinking it’s fine to rock up to a peaceful protest with a powerful weapon! 🤷" 1) the “gun control” bird flew the moment that the Republicans couldn’t even agree to modest reform after 20 5 year olds were killed at sandy hook 2) again, he did nothing illegal! So don’t put it on him! He had a permit for it! He never brandished his weapon at any point! | |||
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" Very important context. It's surprising to hear people who rightly call for more gun control thinking it’s fine to rock up to a peaceful protest with a powerful weapon! 🤷 1) the “gun control” bird flew the moment that the Republicans couldn’t even agree to modest reform after 20 5 year olds were killed at sandy hook 2) again, he did nothing illegal! So don’t put it on him! He had a permit for it! He never brandished his weapon at any point! " As has been said, the legal right to bear arms is not an instruction! | |||
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" Very important context. It's surprising to hear people who rightly call for more gun control thinking it’s fine to rock up to a peaceful protest with a powerful weapon! 🤷 1) the “gun control” bird flew the moment that the Republicans couldn’t even agree to modest reform after 20 5 year olds were killed at sandy hook 2) again, he did nothing illegal! So don’t put it on him! He had a permit for it! He never brandished his weapon at any point! As has been said, the legal right to bear arms is not an instruction! " You are apparently a last word merchant. Even when it adds nothing. | |||
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" Very important context. It's surprising to hear people who rightly call for more gun control thinking it’s fine to rock up to a peaceful protest with a powerful weapon! 🤷 1) the “gun control” bird flew the moment that the Republicans couldn’t even agree to modest reform after 20 5 year olds were killed at sandy hook 2) again, he did nothing illegal! So don’t put it on him! He had a permit for it! He never brandished his weapon at any point! As has been said, the legal right to bear arms is not an instruction! " I'm not sure what point you're trying to make... Are you saying that because he had a gun on him, getting shot and killed was deserved or expected? Are you blaming his death on his actions? | |||
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" Very important context. It's surprising to hear people who rightly call for more gun control thinking it’s fine to rock up to a peaceful protest with a powerful weapon! 🤷 1) the “gun control” bird flew the moment that the Republicans couldn’t even agree to modest reform after 20 5 year olds were killed at sandy hook 2) again, he did nothing illegal! So don’t put it on him! He had a permit for it! He never brandished his weapon at any point! As has been said, the legal right to bear arms is not an instruction! " I have a friend in Texas who puts her gun in her handbag in the same way I put my phone in mine. 🤷♀️ | |||
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" Very important context. It's surprising to hear people who rightly call for more gun control thinking it’s fine to rock up to a peaceful protest with a powerful weapon! 🤷 1) the “gun control” bird flew the moment that the Republicans couldn’t even agree to modest reform after 20 5 year olds were killed at sandy hook 2) again, he did nothing illegal! So don’t put it on him! He had a permit for it! He never brandished his weapon at any point! As has been said, the legal right to bear arms is not an instruction! I'm not sure what point you're trying to make... Are you saying that because he had a gun on him, getting shot and killed was deserved or expected? Are you blaming his death on his actions? " No, and No. | |||
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" Very important context. It's surprising to hear people who rightly call for more gun control thinking it’s fine to rock up to a peaceful protest with a powerful weapon! 🤷 1) the “gun control” bird flew the moment that the Republicans couldn’t even agree to modest reform after 20 5 year olds were killed at sandy hook 2) again, he did nothing illegal! So don’t put it on him! He had a permit for it! He never brandished his weapon at any point! As has been said, the legal right to bear arms is not an instruction! I'm not sure what point you're trying to make... Are you saying that because he had a gun on him, getting shot and killed was deserved or expected? Are you blaming his death on his actions? No, and No." So if you say the answer is no.. and no… just exactly are you trying to say Because he had it legally.. and he never brandished it If you are driving with a CCP for example , you don’t leave the gun in the car! | |||
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"One more murder by firearm (15,000+ last year) Two by ICE Assassination attempts on Trump 100,000 tonnes USA munitions dropped on Gaza Every TV cop show involves either a firearm or a murder. An estimated 400,000,000 firearms in USA Largest defence budget on the globe by some margin This latest incident should be of no surprise Only USA can resolve this. Very important context. It's surprising to hear people who rightly call for more gun control thinking its fine to rock up to a peaceful protest with a powerful weapon! 🤷" Its totally fine.. In this murder the guys firearm played absolutely no part in how he was challenged by ICE.. Maced by them as he tried to help a woman already assaulted by ICE and when he was wrestled and beaten by them before the single shot which couldn't have physically been him as the weapon was removed from him by ICE.. And it played no part in someone from ICE firing multiple shots into him for no reason that he could have given as any sort of legally protected justified use of lethal force.. So whilst you might be 'surprised' that's literally down to you trying to make something out of nothing when several people have already told you what the Law permits in that State.. | |||
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" Very important context. It's surprising to hear people who rightly call for more gun control thinking it’s fine to rock up to a peaceful protest with a powerful weapon! 🤷 1) the “gun control” bird flew the moment that the Republicans couldn’t even agree to modest reform after 20 5 year olds were killed at sandy hook 2) again, he did nothing illegal! So don’t put it on him! He had a permit for it! He never brandished his weapon at any point! As has been said, the legal right to bear arms is not an instruction! I'm not sure what point you're trying to make... Are you saying that because he had a gun on him, getting shot and killed was deserved or expected? Are you blaming his death on his actions? No, and No." Are you sure? Because what you've said sounds very much like you are despite all the available evidence that his carrying had nothing to do with him being shot multiple times? Very similar to someone saying 'well she was dr#nk or she was wearing a short skirt'.. | |||
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" Very important context. It's surprising to hear people who rightly call for more gun control thinking it’s fine to rock up to a peaceful protest with a powerful weapon! 🤷 1) the “gun control” bird flew the moment that the Republicans couldn’t even agree to modest reform after 20 5 year olds were killed at sandy hook 2) again, he did nothing illegal! So don’t put it on him! He had a permit for it! He never brandished his weapon at any point! As has been said, the legal right to bear arms is not an instruction! I'm not sure what point you're trying to make... Are you saying that because he had a gun on him, getting shot and killed was deserved or expected? Are you blaming his death on his actions? No, and No. Are you sure? Because what you've said sounds very much like you are despite all the available evidence that his carrying had nothing to do with him being shot multiple times? Very similar to someone saying 'well she was dr#nk or she was wearing a short skirt'.." I've answered as clearly as possible. If you want to project opinions onto me which I don't hold, that's not something I can control.🤷 | |||
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" Very important context. It's surprising to hear people who rightly call for more gun control thinking it’s fine to rock up to a peaceful protest with a powerful weapon! 🤷 1) the “gun control” bird flew the moment that the Republicans couldn’t even agree to modest reform after 20 5 year olds were killed at sandy hook 2) again, he did nothing illegal! So don’t put it on him! He had a permit for it! He never brandished his weapon at any point! As has been said, the legal right to bear arms is not an instruction! I'm not sure what point you're trying to make... Are you saying that because he had a gun on him, getting shot and killed was deserved or expected? Are you blaming his death on his actions? No, and No. Are you sure? Because what you've said sounds very much like you are despite all the available evidence that his carrying had nothing to do with him being shot multiple times? Very similar to someone saying 'well she was dr#nk or she was wearing a short skirt'.. I've answered as clearly as possible. If you want to project opinions onto me which I don't hold, that's not something I can control.🤷" Its how you are coming across and whilst you are trying to 'cleverly phrase things' it is pretty bloody obvious to see, as several posters have done.. | |||
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" Very important context. It's surprising to hear people who rightly call for more gun control thinking it’s fine to rock up to a peaceful protest with a powerful weapon! 🤷 1) the “gun control” bird flew the moment that the Republicans couldn’t even agree to modest reform after 20 5 year olds were killed at sandy hook 2) again, he did nothing illegal! So don’t put it on him! He had a permit for it! He never brandished his weapon at any point! As has been said, the legal right to bear arms is not an instruction! I'm not sure what point you're trying to make... Are you saying that because he had a gun on him, getting shot and killed was deserved or expected? Are you blaming his death on his actions? No, and No. Are you sure? Because what you've said sounds very much like you are despite all the available evidence that his carrying had nothing to do with him being shot multiple times? Very similar to someone saying 'well she was dr#nk or she was wearing a short skirt'.. I've answered as clearly as possible. If you want to project opinions onto me which I don't hold, that's not something I can control.🤷 Its how you are coming across and whilst you are trying to 'cleverly phrase things' it is pretty bloody obvious to see, as several posters have done.. " Well Fabio has called me a village idiot now you're calling me 'clever', I guess that's balanced at least! 🤣🤣 | |||
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" Very important context. It's surprising to hear people who rightly call for more gun control thinking it’s fine to rock up to a peaceful protest with a powerful weapon! 🤷 1) the “gun control” bird flew the moment that the Republicans couldn’t even agree to modest reform after 20 5 year olds were killed at sandy hook 2) again, he did nothing illegal! So don’t put it on him! He had a permit for it! He never brandished his weapon at any point! As has been said, the legal right to bear arms is not an instruction! I'm not sure what point you're trying to make... Are you saying that because he had a gun on him, getting shot and killed was deserved or expected? Are you blaming his death on his actions? No, and No. Are you sure? Because what you've said sounds very much like you are despite all the available evidence that his carrying had nothing to do with him being shot multiple times? Very similar to someone saying 'well she was dr#nk or she was wearing a short skirt'.. I've answered as clearly as possible. If you want to project opinions onto me which I don't hold, that's not something I can control.🤷 Its how you are coming across and whilst you are trying to 'cleverly phrase things' it is pretty bloody obvious to see, as several posters have done.. Well Fabio has called me a village idiot now you're calling me 'clever', I guess that's balanced at least! 🤣🤣" Better balanced, than unbalanced  | |||
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" Very important context. It's surprising to hear people who rightly call for more gun control thinking it’s fine to rock up to a peaceful protest with a powerful weapon! 🤷 1) the “gun control” bird flew the moment that the Republicans couldn’t even agree to modest reform after 20 5 year olds were killed at sandy hook 2) again, he did nothing illegal! So don’t put it on him! He had a permit for it! He never brandished his weapon at any point! As has been said, the legal right to bear arms is not an instruction! I'm not sure what point you're trying to make... Are you saying that because he had a gun on him, getting shot and killed was deserved or expected? Are you blaming his death on his actions? No, and No. Are you sure? Because what you've said sounds very much like you are despite all the available evidence that his carrying had nothing to do with him being shot multiple times? Very similar to someone saying 'well she was dr#nk or she was wearing a short skirt'.. I've answered as clearly as possible. If you want to project opinions onto me which I don't hold, that's not something I can control.🤷 Its how you are coming across and whilst you are trying to 'cleverly phrase things' it is pretty bloody obvious to see, as several posters have done.. Well Fabio has called me a village idiot now you're calling me 'clever', I guess that's balanced at least! 🤣🤣" Actually far too clever by half to the point where you are an idiot…. I think you troll for your own shits and giggles…. | |||
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" Very important context. It's surprising to hear people who rightly call for more gun control thinking it’s fine to rock up to a peaceful protest with a powerful weapon! 🤷 1) the “gun control” bird flew the moment that the Republicans couldn’t even agree to modest reform after 20 5 year olds were killed at sandy hook 2) again, he did nothing illegal! So don’t put it on him! He had a permit for it! He never brandished his weapon at any point! As has been said, the legal right to bear arms is not an instruction! I'm not sure what point you're trying to make... Are you saying that because he had a gun on him, getting shot and killed was deserved or expected? Are you blaming his death on his actions? No, and No. Are you sure? Because what you've said sounds very much like you are despite all the available evidence that his carrying had nothing to do with him being shot multiple times? Very similar to someone saying 'well she was dr#nk or she was wearing a short skirt'.. I've answered as clearly as possible. If you want to project opinions onto me which I don't hold, that's not something I can control.🤷 Its how you are coming across and whilst you are trying to 'cleverly phrase things' it is pretty bloody obvious to see, as several posters have done.. Well Fabio has called me a village idiot now you're calling me 'clever', I guess that's balanced at least! 🤣🤣" I'm not, if you think that's the case then he has a point   | |||
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"One more murder by firearm (15,000+ last year) Two by ICE Assassination attempts on Trump 100,000 tonnes USA munitions dropped on Gaza Every TV cop show involves either a firearm or a murder. An estimated 400,000,000 firearms in USA Largest defence budget on the globe by some margin This latest incident should be of no surprise Only USA can resolve this. Very important context. It's surprising to hear people who rightly call for more gun control thinking its fine to rock up to a peaceful protest with a powerful weapon! 🤷 Its totally fine.. In this murder the guys firearm played absolutely no part in how he was challenged by ICE.. Maced by them as he tried to help a woman already assaulted by ICE and when he was wrestled and beaten by them before the single shot which couldn't have physically been him as the weapon was removed from him by ICE.. And it played no part in someone from ICE firing multiple shots into him for no reason that he could have given as any sort of legally protected justified use of lethal force.. So whilst you might be 'surprised' that's literally down to you trying to make something out of nothing when several people have already told you what the Law permits in that State.. " I think the gun he had on his person did play a tragic part in the events that unfolded, they may not have been instigated by Pretti, but the gun was the catalyst. The removal of the gun and the discharging of that gun resulted in the tragic death of this man, it should not have happened but it did, and I think it is important to understand why and ensure it is not repeated again and again. I would also question if it was murder as you say, do you really believe the ICE agent set out to kill him? I don't, I don't think anyone involved set out that day with any intention of murder. What I saw a catastrophic outcome from many moving parts that collided out of control. | |||
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"One more murder by firearm (15,000+ last year) Two by ICE Assassination attempts on Trump 100,000 tonnes USA munitions dropped on Gaza Every TV cop show involves either a firearm or a murder. An estimated 400,000,000 firearms in USA Largest defence budget on the globe by some margin This latest incident should be of no surprise Only USA can resolve this. Very important context. It's surprising to hear people who rightly call for more gun control thinking its fine to rock up to a peaceful protest with a powerful weapon! 🤷 Its totally fine.. In this murder the guys firearm played absolutely no part in how he was challenged by ICE.. Maced by them as he tried to help a woman already assaulted by ICE and when he was wrestled and beaten by them before the single shot which couldn't have physically been him as the weapon was removed from him by ICE.. And it played no part in someone from ICE firing multiple shots into him for no reason that he could have given as any sort of legally protected justified use of lethal force.. So whilst you might be 'surprised' that's literally down to you trying to make something out of nothing when several people have already told you what the Law permits in that State.. I think the gun he had on his person did play a tragic part in the events that unfolded, they may not have been instigated by Pretti, but the gun was the catalyst. The removal of the gun and the discharging of that gun resulted in the tragic death of this man, it should not have happened but it did, and I think it is important to understand why and ensure it is not repeated again and again. I would also question if it was murder as you say, do you really believe the ICE agent set out to kill him? I don't, I don't think anyone involved set out that day with any intention of murder. What I saw a catastrophic outcome from many moving parts that collided out of control. " I get what you mean but these are supposed to be government agent's trained and be able to keep a cool head and react in a professional manner. What we are seeing is a rabble acting like a bunch of thug's. | |||
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"One more murder by firearm (15,000+ last year) Two by ICE Assassination attempts on Trump 100,000 tonnes USA munitions dropped on Gaza Every TV cop show involves either a firearm or a murder. An estimated 400,000,000 firearms in USA Largest defence budget on the globe by some margin This latest incident should be of no surprise Only USA can resolve this. Very important context. It's surprising to hear people who rightly call for more gun control thinking its fine to rock up to a peaceful protest with a powerful weapon! 🤷 Its totally fine.. In this murder the guys firearm played absolutely no part in how he was challenged by ICE.. Maced by them as he tried to help a woman already assaulted by ICE and when he was wrestled and beaten by them before the single shot which couldn't have physically been him as the weapon was removed from him by ICE.. And it played no part in someone from ICE firing multiple shots into him for no reason that he could have given as any sort of legally protected justified use of lethal force.. So whilst you might be 'surprised' that's literally down to you trying to make something out of nothing when several people have already told you what the Law permits in that State.. I think the gun he had on his person did play a tragic part in the events that unfolded, they may not have been instigated by Pretti, but the gun was the catalyst. The removal of the gun and the discharging of that gun resulted in the tragic death of this man, it should not have happened but it did, and I think it is important to understand why and ensure it is not repeated again and again. I would also question if it was murder as you say, do you really believe the ICE agent set out to kill him? I don't, I don't think anyone involved set out that day with any intention of murder. What I saw a catastrophic outcome from many moving parts that collided out of control. I get what you mean but these are supposed to be government agent's trained and be able to keep a cool head and react in a professional manner. What we are seeing is a rabble acting like a bunch of thug's. " I agree, the ICE agents are not in control. | |||
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"One more murder by firearm (15,000+ last year) Two by ICE Assassination attempts on Trump 100,000 tonnes USA munitions dropped on Gaza Every TV cop show involves either a firearm or a murder. An estimated 400,000,000 firearms in USA Largest defence budget on the globe by some margin This latest incident should be of no surprise Only USA can resolve this. Very important context. It's surprising to hear people who rightly call for more gun control thinking its fine to rock up to a peaceful protest with a powerful weapon! 🤷 Its totally fine.. In this murder the guys firearm played absolutely no part in how he was challenged by ICE.. Maced by them as he tried to help a woman already assaulted by ICE and when he was wrestled and beaten by them before the single shot which couldn't have physically been him as the weapon was removed from him by ICE.. And it played no part in someone from ICE firing multiple shots into him for no reason that he could have given as any sort of legally protected justified use of lethal force.. So whilst you might be 'surprised' that's literally down to you trying to make something out of nothing when several people have already told you what the Law permits in that State.. I think the gun he had on his person did play a tragic part in the events that unfolded, they may not have been instigated by Pretti, but the gun was the catalyst. The removal of the gun and the discharging of that gun resulted in the tragic death of this man, it should not have happened but it did, and I think it is important to understand why and ensure it is not repeated again and again. I would also question if it was murder as you say, do you really believe the ICE agent set out to kill him? I don't, I don't think anyone involved set out that day with any intention of murder. What I saw a catastrophic outcome from many moving parts that collided out of control. " Where has it been said it was his own gun that was discharged.. It wasn't by him as his hands were in front of him as the gun was removed by the agent.. The level of violence shown towards the woman he went to help up and then him being maced then wrestled to the floor and beaten as they were on him is as clear an indication as anyone can see that they were out to inflict harm on peaceful protesters who are protected under the laws of the land.. I agree they didnt wake up thinking I know what,today if we mace someone because they dare to use their constitutional rights then when they are on the ground and dare to struggle as one of us hits them even if they dont strike back.. And, if someone else discharges a weapon in the vicinity and we dont even know where the actual threat is.. Or whose weapon or who fired it then hell yeah it'll be a good response to fire multiple shots into the person still on the ground who doesn't have a weapon.. You can say a car backfiring might be a catalyst or something dropped from height and tbh the decision that was taken as yet from what is known by two Ice agents is unjustified.. There's a difference and anyone with any experience of carrying weapons will tell you about being in a position with rounds coming in your direction and a situation such as this.. He didnt have his legally owned and permitted to carry weapon on his person, he wasn't reaching for it or trying to take an agents weapon all or either of which would have justified the use of potentially lethal force in response.. Someone meant to be highly trained lost it and an innocent man is dead, three in his back according to the doctor who tried to render aid.. That to me is murder, it might not be premeditated but it reaches the threshold of a homicide.. | |||
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"One more murder by firearm (15,000+ last year) Two by ICE Assassination attempts on Trump 100,000 tonnes USA munitions dropped on Gaza Every TV cop show involves either a firearm or a murder. An estimated 400,000,000 firearms in USA Largest defence budget on the globe by some margin This latest incident should be of no surprise Only USA can resolve this. Very important context. It's surprising to hear people who rightly call for more gun control thinking its fine to rock up to a peaceful protest with a powerful weapon! 🤷 Its totally fine.. In this murder the guys firearm played absolutely no part in how he was challenged by ICE.. Maced by them as he tried to help a woman already assaulted by ICE and when he was wrestled and beaten by them before the single shot which couldn't have physically been him as the weapon was removed from him by ICE.. And it played no part in someone from ICE firing multiple shots into him for no reason that he could have given as any sort of legally protected justified use of lethal force.. So whilst you might be 'surprised' that's literally down to you trying to make something out of nothing when several people have already told you what the Law permits in that State.. I think the gun he had on his person did play a tragic part in the events that unfolded, they may not have been instigated by Pretti, but the gun was the catalyst. The removal of the gun and the discharging of that gun resulted in the tragic death of this man, it should not have happened but it did, and I think it is important to understand why and ensure it is not repeated again and again. I would also question if it was murder as you say, do you really believe the ICE agent set out to kill him? I don't, I don't think anyone involved set out that day with any intention of murder. What I saw a catastrophic outcome from many moving parts that collided out of control. Where has it been said it was his own gun that was discharged.. It wasn't by him as his hands were in front of him as the gun was removed by the agent.. The level of violence shown towards the woman he went to help up and then him being maced then wrestled to the floor and beaten as they were on him is as clear an indication as anyone can see that they were out to inflict harm on peaceful protesters who are protected under the laws of the land.. I agree they didnt wake up thinking I know what,today if we mace someone because they dare to use their constitutional rights then when they are on the ground and dare to struggle as one of us hits them even if they dont strike back.. And, if someone else discharges a weapon in the vicinity and we dont even know where the actual threat is.. Or whose weapon or who fired it then hell yeah it'll be a good response to fire multiple shots into the person still on the ground who doesn't have a weapon.. You can say a car backfiring might be a catalyst or something dropped from height and tbh the decision that was taken as yet from what is known by two Ice agents is unjustified.. There's a difference and anyone with any experience of carrying weapons will tell you about being in a position with rounds coming in your direction and a situation such as this.. He didnt have his legally owned and permitted to carry weapon on his person, he wasn't reaching for it or trying to take an agents weapon all or either of which would have justified the use of potentially lethal force in response.. Someone meant to be highly trained lost it and an innocent man is dead, three in his back according to the doctor who tried to render aid.. That to me is murder, it might not be premeditated but it reaches the threshold of a homicide.." If no gun was found, there would have been no intervention with the gun and the discharging of the gun would not have happened. However this is presented the gun on Pretti began a series of events that sadly led to his death. The ICE agents appear poorly trained from my perception, but there is a caveat. Our law enforcement doesn't as a rule, need to deal with people in charged protest situations carrying firearms. I'm not sure how our enforcement agents would cope under the same pressures, my gut feeling is not well and probably no different. The US has as you say provides rights to carry in some state, and with it comes a hell of a lot of responsibility, and we should be able to acknowledge that although something is legal it isn't always the best course of action. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I would also question if it was murder as you say, do you really believe the ICE agent set out to kill him? I don't, I don't think anyone involved set out that day with any intention of murder. What I saw a catastrophic outcome from many moving parts that collided out of control. " It would not be “1st degree murder” as you are right, that would require intent.. However you could absolutely argue it would be “2nd degree murder” or the UK equivalent of manslaughter against all the agents who shot into him… government are going to argue federal immunity.. doesn’t mean the state themselves couldn’t make the charge under state law You could also argue a corporate “2nd degree murder” charge against the us government (DHS/ICE) for unlawful killing .. a civil case the payout would be huge if the government was found liable | |||
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" I would also question if it was murder as you say, do you really believe the ICE agent set out to kill him? I don't, I don't think anyone involved set out that day with any intention of murder. What I saw a catastrophic outcome from many moving parts that collided out of control. It would not be “1st degree murder” as you are right, that would require intent.. However you could absolutely argue it would be “2nd degree murder” or the UK equivalent of manslaughter against all the agents who shot into him… government are going to argue federal immunity.. doesn’t mean the state themselves couldn’t make the charge under state law You could also argue a corporate “2nd degree murder” charge against the us government (DHS/ICE) for unlawful killing .. a civil case the payout would be huge if the government was found liable " The US technicalities are vast, but if I look at this from what I know here in the UK this would as you say be manslaughter, in my opinion. Some will think murder / manslaughter is semantics but it is important to acknowledge intent as you mentioned. The prosecution of wrong doing must be in line with the crime, and manslaughter can be an accident. What appears to be missing is a levelheaded view and an authority that can hold both sides of this ongoing issue accountable, does this exists in US law? | |||
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"One more murder by firearm (15,000+ last year) Two by ICE Assassination attempts on Trump 100,000 tonnes USA munitions dropped on Gaza Every TV cop show involves either a firearm or a murder. An estimated 400,000,000 firearms in USA Largest defence budget on the globe by some margin This latest incident should be of no surprise Only USA can resolve this. Very important context. It's surprising to hear people who rightly call for more gun control thinking its fine to rock up to a peaceful protest with a powerful weapon! 🤷 Its totally fine.. In this murder the guys firearm played absolutely no part in how he was challenged by ICE.. Maced by them as he tried to help a woman already assaulted by ICE and when he was wrestled and beaten by them before the single shot which couldn't have physically been him as the weapon was removed from him by ICE.. And it played no part in someone from ICE firing multiple shots into him for no reason that he could have given as any sort of legally protected justified use of lethal force.. So whilst you might be 'surprised' that's literally down to you trying to make something out of nothing when several people have already told you what the Law permits in that State.. I think the gun he had on his person did play a tragic part in the events that unfolded, they may not have been instigated by Pretti, but the gun was the catalyst. The removal of the gun and the discharging of that gun resulted in the tragic death of this man, it should not have happened but it did, and I think it is important to understand why and ensure it is not repeated again and again. I would also question if it was murder as you say, do you really believe the ICE agent set out to kill him? I don't, I don't think anyone involved set out that day with any intention of murder. What I saw a catastrophic outcome from many moving parts that collided out of control. Where has it been said it was his own gun that was discharged.. It wasn't by him as his hands were in front of him as the gun was removed by the agent.. The level of violence shown towards the woman he went to help up and then him being maced then wrestled to the floor and beaten as they were on him is as clear an indication as anyone can see that they were out to inflict harm on peaceful protesters who are protected under the laws of the land.. I agree they didnt wake up thinking I know what,today if we mace someone because they dare to use their constitutional rights then when they are on the ground and dare to struggle as one of us hits them even if they dont strike back.. And, if someone else discharges a weapon in the vicinity and we dont even know where the actual threat is.. Or whose weapon or who fired it then hell yeah it'll be a good response to fire multiple shots into the person still on the ground who doesn't have a weapon.. You can say a car backfiring might be a catalyst or something dropped from height and tbh the decision that was taken as yet from what is known by two Ice agents is unjustified.. There's a difference and anyone with any experience of carrying weapons will tell you about being in a position with rounds coming in your direction and a situation such as this.. He didnt have his legally owned and permitted to carry weapon on his person, he wasn't reaching for it or trying to take an agents weapon all or either of which would have justified the use of potentially lethal force in response.. Someone meant to be highly trained lost it and an innocent man is dead, three in his back according to the doctor who tried to render aid.. That to me is murder, it might not be premeditated but it reaches the threshold of a homicide.. If no gun was found, there would have been no intervention with the gun and the discharging of the gun would not have happened. However this is presented the gun on Pretti began a series of events that sadly led to his death. The ICE agents appear poorly trained from my perception, but there is a caveat. Our law enforcement doesn't as a rule, need to deal with people in charged protest situations carrying firearms. I'm not sure how our enforcement agents would cope under the same pressures, my gut feeling is not well and probably no different. The US has as you say provides rights to carry in some state, and with it comes a hell of a lot of responsibility, and we should be able to acknowledge that although something is legal it isn't always the best course of action. " I asked you at the start of my previous reply to you where has it said thst it was his gun that was fired and by whom? You've repeated it again here so again if I may ask you? There are several eye witnesses that do not say the same and some print media are saying the agents drew and fired their weapons.. I dont think in law it absolves them, the agents who shot him of their culpability.. | |||
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"I could understand manslaughter if only one or two bullets were fired... Continuing to shoot a man on the ground who is already lifeless... Even if the first shots were fired in panick (over what I don't know as the man posed little to no threat before the first shot was fired) The subsequent 8/9 shots can certainly be described as with intent to kill " The trouble is that for a murder/murder 1 charge to stick you are going to need to argue some sort of premeditation .. that’s going to be awfully difficult You would have a much stronger case for manslaughter/murder 2.. where you could absolutely argue their actions killed him either recklessly or accidentally The case against a government corporate charge would be interesting as you can argue that it’s the guidelines or failure to adhere to them that caused the incident… unlawful killing… it would be interesting as you could name bovino, noem, and miller as parties to the case | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"One more murder by firearm (15,000+ last year) Two by ICE Assassination attempts on Trump 100,000 tonnes USA munitions dropped on Gaza Every TV cop show involves either a firearm or a murder. An estimated 400,000,000 firearms in USA Largest defence budget on the globe by some margin This latest incident should be of no surprise Only USA can resolve this. Very important context. It's surprising to hear people who rightly call for more gun control thinking its fine to rock up to a peaceful protest with a powerful weapon! 🤷 Its totally fine.. In this murder the guys firearm played absolutely no part in how he was challenged by ICE.. Maced by them as he tried to help a woman already assaulted by ICE and when he was wrestled and beaten by them before the single shot which couldn't have physically been him as the weapon was removed from him by ICE.. And it played no part in someone from ICE firing multiple shots into him for no reason that he could have given as any sort of legally protected justified use of lethal force.. So whilst you might be 'surprised' that's literally down to you trying to make something out of nothing when several people have already told you what the Law permits in that State.. I think the gun he had on his person did play a tragic part in the events that unfolded, they may not have been instigated by Pretti, but the gun was the catalyst. The removal of the gun and the discharging of that gun resulted in the tragic death of this man, it should not have happened but it did, and I think it is important to understand why and ensure it is not repeated again and again. I would also question if it was murder as you say, do you really believe the ICE agent set out to kill him? I don't, I don't think anyone involved set out that day with any intention of murder. What I saw a catastrophic outcome from many moving parts that collided out of control. Where has it been said it was his own gun that was discharged.. It wasn't by him as his hands were in front of him as the gun was removed by the agent.. The level of violence shown towards the woman he went to help up and then him being maced then wrestled to the floor and beaten as they were on him is as clear an indication as anyone can see that they were out to inflict harm on peaceful protesters who are protected under the laws of the land.. I agree they didnt wake up thinking I know what,today if we mace someone because they dare to use their constitutional rights then when they are on the ground and dare to struggle as one of us hits them even if they dont strike back.. And, if someone else discharges a weapon in the vicinity and we dont even know where the actual threat is.. Or whose weapon or who fired it then hell yeah it'll be a good response to fire multiple shots into the person still on the ground who doesn't have a weapon.. You can say a car backfiring might be a catalyst or something dropped from height and tbh the decision that was taken as yet from what is known by two Ice agents is unjustified.. There's a difference and anyone with any experience of carrying weapons will tell you about being in a position with rounds coming in your direction and a situation such as this.. He didnt have his legally owned and permitted to carry weapon on his person, he wasn't reaching for it or trying to take an agents weapon all or either of which would have justified the use of potentially lethal force in response.. Someone meant to be highly trained lost it and an innocent man is dead, three in his back according to the doctor who tried to render aid.. That to me is murder, it might not be premeditated but it reaches the threshold of a homicide.. If no gun was found, there would have been no intervention with the gun and the discharging of the gun would not have happened. However this is presented the gun on Pretti began a series of events that sadly led to his death. The ICE agents appear poorly trained from my perception, but there is a caveat. Our law enforcement doesn't as a rule, need to deal with people in charged protest situations carrying firearms. I'm not sure how our enforcement agents would cope under the same pressures, my gut feeling is not well and probably no different. The US has as you say provides rights to carry in some state, and with it comes a hell of a lot of responsibility, and we should be able to acknowledge that although something is legal it isn't always the best course of action. I asked you at the start of my previous reply to you where has it said thst it was his gun that was fired and by whom? You've repeated it again here so again if I may ask you? There are several eye witnesses that do not say the same and some print media are saying the agents drew and fired their weapons.. I dont think in law it absolves them, the agents who shot him of their culpability.. " Reports are the ICE agent that took the weapon discharged it. I was hoping this was known to you as you have such a strong opinion. | |||
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"I could understand manslaughter if only one or two bullets were fired... Continuing to shoot a man on the ground who is already lifeless... Even if the first shots were fired in panick (over what I don't know as the man posed little to no threat before the first shot was fired) The subsequent 8/9 shots can certainly be described as with intent to kill " The first shot and any subsequent were reactive, not premeditated. The amount of shots fired and the discipline is in question. The response is hard to understand in any perspective being UK based in my opinion. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I could understand manslaughter if only one or two bullets were fired... Continuing to shoot a man on the ground who is already lifeless... Even if the first shots were fired in panick (over what I don't know as the man posed little to no threat before the first shot was fired) The subsequent 8/9 shots can certainly be described as with intent to kill The first shot and any subsequent were reactive, not premeditated. The amount of shots fired and the discipline is in question. The response is hard to understand in any perspective being UK based in my opinion. " Not saying they were premeditated... But shooting a mans lifeless body several more times after already firing 4/5 shots in to him definitely passed the point of being reactive and a choice was made to continue shooting him | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I could understand manslaughter if only one or two bullets were fired... Continuing to shoot a man on the ground who is already lifeless... Even if the first shots were fired in panick (over what I don't know as the man posed little to no threat before the first shot was fired) The subsequent 8/9 shots can certainly be described as with intent to kill The first shot and any subsequent were reactive, not premeditated. The amount of shots fired and the discipline is in question. The response is hard to understand in any perspective being UK based in my opinion. Not saying they were premeditated... But shooting a mans lifeless body several more times after already firing 4/5 shots in to him definitely passed the point of being reactive and a choice was made to continue shooting him" They are not trained well is my observation, but again in hindsight. I'm not sure if it was 1 agent or multiple that fired, that detail needs to be established. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"One more murder by firearm (15,000+ last year) Two by ICE Assassination attempts on Trump 100,000 tonnes USA munitions dropped on Gaza Every TV cop show involves either a firearm or a murder. An estimated 400,000,000 firearms in USA Largest defence budget on the globe by some margin This latest incident should be of no surprise Only USA can resolve this. Very important context. It's surprising to hear people who rightly call for more gun control thinking its fine to rock up to a peaceful protest with a powerful weapon! 🤷 Its totally fine.. In this murder the guys firearm played absolutely no part in how he was challenged by ICE.. Maced by them as he tried to help a woman already assaulted by ICE and when he was wrestled and beaten by them before the single shot which couldn't have physically been him as the weapon was removed from him by ICE.. And it played no part in someone from ICE firing multiple shots into him for no reason that he could have given as any sort of legally protected justified use of lethal force.. So whilst you might be 'surprised' that's literally down to you trying to make something out of nothing when several people have already told you what the Law permits in that State.. I think the gun he had on his person did play a tragic part in the events that unfolded, they may not have been instigated by Pretti, but the gun was the catalyst. The removal of the gun and the discharging of that gun resulted in the tragic death of this man, it should not have happened but it did, and I think it is important to understand why and ensure it is not repeated again and again. I would also question if it was murder as you say, do you really believe the ICE agent set out to kill him? I don't, I don't think anyone involved set out that day with any intention of murder. What I saw a catastrophic outcome from many moving parts that collided out of control. Where has it been said it was his own gun that was discharged.. It wasn't by him as his hands were in front of him as the gun was removed by the agent.. The level of violence shown towards the woman he went to help up and then him being maced then wrestled to the floor and beaten as they were on him is as clear an indication as anyone can see that they were out to inflict harm on peaceful protesters who are protected under the laws of the land.. I agree they didnt wake up thinking I know what,today if we mace someone because they dare to use their constitutional rights then when they are on the ground and dare to struggle as one of us hits them even if they dont strike back.. And, if someone else discharges a weapon in the vicinity and we dont even know where the actual threat is.. Or whose weapon or who fired it then hell yeah it'll be a good response to fire multiple shots into the person still on the ground who doesn't have a weapon.. You can say a car backfiring might be a catalyst or something dropped from height and tbh the decision that was taken as yet from what is known by two Ice agents is unjustified.. There's a difference and anyone with any experience of carrying weapons will tell you about being in a position with rounds coming in your direction and a situation such as this.. He didnt have his legally owned and permitted to carry weapon on his person, he wasn't reaching for it or trying to take an agents weapon all or either of which would have justified the use of potentially lethal force in response.. Someone meant to be highly trained lost it and an innocent man is dead, three in his back according to the doctor who tried to render aid.. That to me is murder, it might not be premeditated but it reaches the threshold of a homicide.. If no gun was found, there would have been no intervention with the gun and the discharging of the gun would not have happened. However this is presented the gun on Pretti began a series of events that sadly led to his death. The ICE agents appear poorly trained from my perception, but there is a caveat. Our law enforcement doesn't as a rule, need to deal with people in charged protest situations carrying firearms. I'm not sure how our enforcement agents would cope under the same pressures, my gut feeling is not well and probably no different. The US has as you say provides rights to carry in some state, and with it comes a hell of a lot of responsibility, and we should be able to acknowledge that although something is legal it isn't always the best course of action. I asked you at the start of my previous reply to you where has it said thst it was his gun that was fired and by whom? You've repeated it again here so again if I may ask you? There are several eye witnesses that do not say the same and some print media are saying the agents drew and fired their weapons.. I dont think in law it absolves them, the agents who shot him of their culpability.. Reports are the ICE agent that took the weapon discharged it. I was hoping this was known to you as you have such a strong opinion." I dont 'know it' as the videos do not show it.. The CNN compilation plus NyT and others do not show it but they do show the agents draw their own side arms and aim them and then shoot.. None of the videos show a weapon similar to the one he was carrying being held or used.. The one thing you do not do if you believe you or your colleagues are at risk is to think of using a weapon that isn't yours especially as you have your own on your belt.. The one you know is loaded and is in safe mode, the one with the mag on you loaded and you know works.. Not something you dont have a clue about its status.. What reports have you seen? The claims from the administration are clearly false.. There are sworn avidavits BTW that say what all the videos show.. | |||
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"One more murder by firearm (15,000+ last year) Two by ICE Assassination attempts on Trump 100,000 tonnes USA munitions dropped on Gaza Every TV cop show involves either a firearm or a murder. An estimated 400,000,000 firearms in USA Largest defence budget on the globe by some margin This latest incident should be of no surprise Only USA can resolve this. Very important context. It's surprising to hear people who rightly call for more gun control thinking its fine to rock up to a peaceful protest with a powerful weapon! 🤷 Its totally fine.. In this murder the guys firearm played absolutely no part in how he was challenged by ICE.. Maced by them as he tried to help a woman already assaulted by ICE and when he was wrestled and beaten by them before the single shot which couldn't have physically been him as the weapon was removed from him by ICE.. And it played no part in someone from ICE firing multiple shots into him for no reason that he could have given as any sort of legally protected justified use of lethal force.. So whilst you might be 'surprised' that's literally down to you trying to make something out of nothing when several people have already told you what the Law permits in that State.. I think the gun he had on his person did play a tragic part in the events that unfolded, they may not have been instigated by Pretti, but the gun was the catalyst. The removal of the gun and the discharging of that gun resulted in the tragic death of this man, it should not have happened but it did, and I think it is important to understand why and ensure it is not repeated again and again. I would also question if it was murder as you say, do you really believe the ICE agent set out to kill him? I don't, I don't think anyone involved set out that day with any intention of murder. What I saw a catastrophic outcome from many moving parts that collided out of control. Where has it been said it was his own gun that was discharged.. It wasn't by him as his hands were in front of him as the gun was removed by the agent.. The level of violence shown towards the woman he went to help up and then him being maced then wrestled to the floor and beaten as they were on him is as clear an indication as anyone can see that they were out to inflict harm on peaceful protesters who are protected under the laws of the land.. I agree they didnt wake up thinking I know what,today if we mace someone because they dare to use their constitutional rights then when they are on the ground and dare to struggle as one of us hits them even if they dont strike back.. And, if someone else discharges a weapon in the vicinity and we dont even know where the actual threat is.. Or whose weapon or who fired it then hell yeah it'll be a good response to fire multiple shots into the person still on the ground who doesn't have a weapon.. You can say a car backfiring might be a catalyst or something dropped from height and tbh the decision that was taken as yet from what is known by two Ice agents is unjustified.. There's a difference and anyone with any experience of carrying weapons will tell you about being in a position with rounds coming in your direction and a situation such as this.. He didnt have his legally owned and permitted to carry weapon on his person, he wasn't reaching for it or trying to take an agents weapon all or either of which would have justified the use of potentially lethal force in response.. Someone meant to be highly trained lost it and an innocent man is dead, three in his back according to the doctor who tried to render aid.. That to me is murder, it might not be premeditated but it reaches the threshold of a homicide.. If no gun was found, there would have been no intervention with the gun and the discharging of the gun would not have happened. However this is presented the gun on Pretti began a series of events that sadly led to his death. The ICE agents appear poorly trained from my perception, but there is a caveat. Our law enforcement doesn't as a rule, need to deal with people in charged protest situations carrying firearms. I'm not sure how our enforcement agents would cope under the same pressures, my gut feeling is not well and probably no different. The US has as you say provides rights to carry in some state, and with it comes a hell of a lot of responsibility, and we should be able to acknowledge that although something is legal it isn't always the best course of action. I asked you at the start of my previous reply to you where has it said thst it was his gun that was fired and by whom? You've repeated it again here so again if I may ask you? There are several eye witnesses that do not say the same and some print media are saying the agents drew and fired their weapons.. I dont think in law it absolves them, the agents who shot him of their culpability.. Reports are the ICE agent that took the weapon discharged it. I was hoping this was known to you as you have such a strong opinion. I dont 'know it' as the videos do not show it.. The CNN compilation plus NyT and others do not show it but they do show the agents draw their own side arms and aim them and then shoot.. None of the videos show a weapon similar to the one he was carrying being held or used.. The one thing you do not do if you believe you or your colleagues are at risk is to think of using a weapon that isn't yours especially as you have your own on your belt.. The one you know is loaded and is in safe mode, the one with the mag on you loaded and you know works.. Not something you dont have a clue about its status.. What reports have you seen? The claims from the administration are clearly false.. There are sworn avidavits BTW that say what all the videos show.. " The gun went off as the agent took it, not an agent using it to shoot to kill. What this highlights is different levels of understanding, I could be correct in my summary, I could be wrong however I'm not blinkered to that. | |||
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"One more murder by firearm (15,000+ last year) Two by ICE Assassination attempts on Trump 100,000 tonnes USA munitions dropped on Gaza Every TV cop show involves either a firearm or a murder. An estimated 400,000,000 firearms in USA Largest defence budget on the globe by some margin This latest incident should be of no surprise Only USA can resolve this. Very important context. It's surprising to hear people who rightly call for more gun control thinking its fine to rock up to a peaceful protest with a powerful weapon! 🤷 Its totally fine.. In this murder the guys firearm played absolutely no part in how he was challenged by ICE.. Maced by them as he tried to help a woman already assaulted by ICE and when he was wrestled and beaten by them before the single shot which couldn't have physically been him as the weapon was removed from him by ICE.. And it played no part in someone from ICE firing multiple shots into him for no reason that he could have given as any sort of legally protected justified use of lethal force.. So whilst you might be 'surprised' that's literally down to you trying to make something out of nothing when several people have already told you what the Law permits in that State.. I think the gun he had on his person did play a tragic part in the events that unfolded, they may not have been instigated by Pretti, but the gun was the catalyst. The removal of the gun and the discharging of that gun resulted in the tragic death of this man, it should not have happened but it did, and I think it is important to understand why and ensure it is not repeated again and again. I would also question if it was murder as you say, do you really believe the ICE agent set out to kill him? I don't, I don't think anyone involved set out that day with any intention of murder. What I saw a catastrophic outcome from many moving parts that collided out of control. Where has it been said it was his own gun that was discharged.. It wasn't by him as his hands were in front of him as the gun was removed by the agent.. The level of violence shown towards the woman he went to help up and then him being maced then wrestled to the floor and beaten as they were on him is as clear an indication as anyone can see that they were out to inflict harm on peaceful protesters who are protected under the laws of the land.. I agree they didnt wake up thinking I know what,today if we mace someone because they dare to use their constitutional rights then when they are on the ground and dare to struggle as one of us hits them even if they dont strike back.. And, if someone else discharges a weapon in the vicinity and we dont even know where the actual threat is.. Or whose weapon or who fired it then hell yeah it'll be a good response to fire multiple shots into the person still on the ground who doesn't have a weapon.. You can say a car backfiring might be a catalyst or something dropped from height and tbh the decision that was taken as yet from what is known by two Ice agents is unjustified.. There's a difference and anyone with any experience of carrying weapons will tell you about being in a position with rounds coming in your direction and a situation such as this.. He didnt have his legally owned and permitted to carry weapon on his person, he wasn't reaching for it or trying to take an agents weapon all or either of which would have justified the use of potentially lethal force in response.. Someone meant to be highly trained lost it and an innocent man is dead, three in his back according to the doctor who tried to render aid.. That to me is murder, it might not be premeditated but it reaches the threshold of a homicide.. If no gun was found, there would have been no intervention with the gun and the discharging of the gun would not have happened. However this is presented the gun on Pretti began a series of events that sadly led to his death. The ICE agents appear poorly trained from my perception, but there is a caveat. Our law enforcement doesn't as a rule, need to deal with people in charged protest situations carrying firearms. I'm not sure how our enforcement agents would cope under the same pressures, my gut feeling is not well and probably no different. The US has as you say provides rights to carry in some state, and with it comes a hell of a lot of responsibility, and we should be able to acknowledge that although something is legal it isn't always the best course of action. I asked you at the start of my previous reply to you where has it said thst it was his gun that was fired and by whom? You've repeated it again here so again if I may ask you? There are several eye witnesses that do not say the same and some print media are saying the agents drew and fired their weapons.. I dont think in law it absolves them, the agents who shot him of their culpability.. Reports are the ICE agent that took the weapon discharged it. I was hoping this was known to you as you have such a strong opinion. I dont 'know it' as the videos do not show it.. The CNN compilation plus NyT and others do not show it but they do show the agents draw their own side arms and aim them and then shoot.. None of the videos show a weapon similar to the one he was carrying being held or used.. The one thing you do not do if you believe you or your colleagues are at risk is to think of using a weapon that isn't yours especially as you have your own on your belt.. The one you know is loaded and is in safe mode, the one with the mag on you loaded and you know works.. Not something you dont have a clue about its status.. What reports have you seen? The claims from the administration are clearly false.. There are sworn avidavits BTW that say what all the videos show.. The gun went off as the agent took it, not an agent using it to shoot to kill. What this highlights is different levels of understanding, I could be correct in my summary, I could be wrong however I'm not blinkered to that." Again what is your source, if that is the case where is it shown ..? I said to the 'boss' it could be they're so poorly trained that when they took it from him one of them (like an amateur) picked it up and a negligent discharge occurred which in that situation is beyond stupid and that set them off.. Im open to anything that sheds a different light, with respect fella nothing I've found on everything I've looked on tells me different to what I've said so far.. Interestingly neither has the administration because you and i both know it wouldbe all over the channels by now.. (bovino) from ICE has now said an investigation is needed which is a change in tone and sickly ironic when DHS stopped local law enforcement from carrying out their own or a joint one.. | |||
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"One more murder by firearm (15,000+ last year) Two by ICE Assassination attempts on Trump 100,000 tonnes USA munitions dropped on Gaza Every TV cop show involves either a firearm or a murder. An estimated 400,000,000 firearms in USA Largest defence budget on the globe by some margin This latest incident should be of no surprise Only USA can resolve this. Very important context. It's surprising to hear people who rightly call for more gun control thinking its fine to rock up to a peaceful protest with a powerful weapon! 🤷 Its totally fine.. In this murder the guys firearm played absolutely no part in how he was challenged by ICE.. Maced by them as he tried to help a woman already assaulted by ICE and when he was wrestled and beaten by them before the single shot which couldn't have physically been him as the weapon was removed from him by ICE.. And it played no part in someone from ICE firing multiple shots into him for no reason that he could have given as any sort of legally protected justified use of lethal force.. So whilst you might be 'surprised' that's literally down to you trying to make something out of nothing when several people have already told you what the Law permits in that State.. I think the gun he had on his person did play a tragic part in the events that unfolded, they may not have been instigated by Pretti, but the gun was the catalyst. The removal of the gun and the discharging of that gun resulted in the tragic death of this man, it should not have happened but it did, and I think it is important to understand why and ensure it is not repeated again and again. I would also question if it was murder as you say, do you really believe the ICE agent set out to kill him? I don't, I don't think anyone involved set out that day with any intention of murder. What I saw a catastrophic outcome from many moving parts that collided out of control. Where has it been said it was his own gun that was discharged.. It wasn't by him as his hands were in front of him as the gun was removed by the agent.. The level of violence shown towards the woman he went to help up and then him being maced then wrestled to the floor and beaten as they were on him is as clear an indication as anyone can see that they were out to inflict harm on peaceful protesters who are protected under the laws of the land.. I agree they didnt wake up thinking I know what,today if we mace someone because they dare to use their constitutional rights then when they are on the ground and dare to struggle as one of us hits them even if they dont strike back.. And, if someone else discharges a weapon in the vicinity and we dont even know where the actual threat is.. Or whose weapon or who fired it then hell yeah it'll be a good response to fire multiple shots into the person still on the ground who doesn't have a weapon.. You can say a car backfiring might be a catalyst or something dropped from height and tbh the decision that was taken as yet from what is known by two Ice agents is unjustified.. There's a difference and anyone with any experience of carrying weapons will tell you about being in a position with rounds coming in your direction and a situation such as this.. He didnt have his legally owned and permitted to carry weapon on his person, he wasn't reaching for it or trying to take an agents weapon all or either of which would have justified the use of potentially lethal force in response.. Someone meant to be highly trained lost it and an innocent man is dead, three in his back according to the doctor who tried to render aid.. That to me is murder, it might not be premeditated but it reaches the threshold of a homicide.. If no gun was found, there would have been no intervention with the gun and the discharging of the gun would not have happened. However this is presented the gun on Pretti began a series of events that sadly led to his death. The ICE agents appear poorly trained from my perception, but there is a caveat. Our law enforcement doesn't as a rule, need to deal with people in charged protest situations carrying firearms. I'm not sure how our enforcement agents would cope under the same pressures, my gut feeling is not well and probably no different. The US has as you say provides rights to carry in some state, and with it comes a hell of a lot of responsibility, and we should be able to acknowledge that although something is legal it isn't always the best course of action. I asked you at the start of my previous reply to you where has it said thst it was his gun that was fired and by whom? You've repeated it again here so again if I may ask you? There are several eye witnesses that do not say the same and some print media are saying the agents drew and fired their weapons.. I dont think in law it absolves them, the agents who shot him of their culpability.. Reports are the ICE agent that took the weapon discharged it. I was hoping this was known to you as you have such a strong opinion. I dont 'know it' as the videos do not show it.. The CNN compilation plus NyT and others do not show it but they do show the agents draw their own side arms and aim them and then shoot.. None of the videos show a weapon similar to the one he was carrying being held or used.. The one thing you do not do if you believe you or your colleagues are at risk is to think of using a weapon that isn't yours especially as you have your own on your belt.. The one you know is loaded and is in safe mode, the one with the mag on you loaded and you know works.. Not something you dont have a clue about its status.. What reports have you seen? The claims from the administration are clearly false.. There are sworn avidavits BTW that say what all the videos show.. The gun went off as the agent took it, not an agent using it to shoot to kill. What this highlights is different levels of understanding, I could be correct in my summary, I could be wrong however I'm not blinkered to that. Again what is your source, if that is the case where is it shown ..? I said to the 'boss' it could be they're so poorly trained that when they took it from him one of them (like an amateur) picked it up and a negligent discharge occurred which in that situation is beyond stupid and that set them off.. Im open to anything that sheds a different light, with respect fella nothing I've found on everything I've looked on tells me different to what I've said so far.. Interestingly neither has the administration because you and i both know it wouldbe all over the channels by now.. (bovino) from ICE has now said an investigation is needed which is a change in tone and sickly ironic when DHS stopped local law enforcement from carrying out their own or a joint one.." Let's see how this actually plays out, I have been more than open that what I know maybe wrong, but more importantly I'm not pinning everything on what I don't know. Once the evidence comes to light, let's pick up again. | |||
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"One more murder by firearm (15,000+ last year) Two by ICE Assassination attempts on Trump 100,000 tonnes USA munitions dropped on Gaza Every TV cop show involves either a firearm or a murder. An estimated 400,000,000 firearms in USA Largest defence budget on the globe by some margin This latest incident should be of no surprise Only USA can resolve this. Very important context. It's surprising to hear people who rightly call for more gun control thinking its fine to rock up to a peaceful protest with a powerful weapon! 🤷 Its totally fine.. In this murder the guys firearm played absolutely no part in how he was challenged by ICE.. Maced by them as he tried to help a woman already assaulted by ICE and when he was wrestled and beaten by them before the single shot which couldn't have physically been him as the weapon was removed from him by ICE.. And it played no part in someone from ICE firing multiple shots into him for no reason that he could have given as any sort of legally protected justified use of lethal force.. So whilst you might be 'surprised' that's literally down to you trying to make something out of nothing when several people have already told you what the Law permits in that State.. I think the gun he had on his person did play a tragic part in the events that unfolded, they may not have been instigated by Pretti, but the gun was the catalyst. The removal of the gun and the discharging of that gun resulted in the tragic death of this man, it should not have happened but it did, and I think it is important to understand why and ensure it is not repeated again and again. I would also question if it was murder as you say, do you really believe the ICE agent set out to kill him? I don't, I don't think anyone involved set out that day with any intention of murder. What I saw a catastrophic outcome from many moving parts that collided out of control. Where has it been said it was his own gun that was discharged.. It wasn't by him as his hands were in front of him as the gun was removed by the agent.. The level of violence shown towards the woman he went to help up and then him being maced then wrestled to the floor and beaten as they were on him is as clear an indication as anyone can see that they were out to inflict harm on peaceful protesters who are protected under the laws of the land.. I agree they didnt wake up thinking I know what,today if we mace someone because they dare to use their constitutional rights then when they are on the ground and dare to struggle as one of us hits them even if they dont strike back.. And, if someone else discharges a weapon in the vicinity and we dont even know where the actual threat is.. Or whose weapon or who fired it then hell yeah it'll be a good response to fire multiple shots into the person still on the ground who doesn't have a weapon.. You can say a car backfiring might be a catalyst or something dropped from height and tbh the decision that was taken as yet from what is known by two Ice agents is unjustified.. There's a difference and anyone with any experience of carrying weapons will tell you about being in a position with rounds coming in your direction and a situation such as this.. He didnt have his legally owned and permitted to carry weapon on his person, he wasn't reaching for it or trying to take an agents weapon all or either of which would have justified the use of potentially lethal force in response.. Someone meant to be highly trained lost it and an innocent man is dead, three in his back according to the doctor who tried to render aid.. That to me is murder, it might not be premeditated but it reaches the threshold of a homicide.. If no gun was found, there would have been no intervention with the gun and the discharging of the gun would not have happened. However this is presented the gun on Pretti began a series of events that sadly led to his death. The ICE agents appear poorly trained from my perception, but there is a caveat. Our law enforcement doesn't as a rule, need to deal with people in charged protest situations carrying firearms. I'm not sure how our enforcement agents would cope under the same pressures, my gut feeling is not well and probably no different. The US has as you say provides rights to carry in some state, and with it comes a hell of a lot of responsibility, and we should be able to acknowledge that although something is legal it isn't always the best course of action. I asked you at the start of my previous reply to you where has it said thst it was his gun that was fired and by whom? You've repeated it again here so again if I may ask you? There are several eye witnesses that do not say the same and some print media are saying the agents drew and fired their weapons.. I dont think in law it absolves them, the agents who shot him of their culpability.. Reports are the ICE agent that took the weapon discharged it. I was hoping this was known to you as you have such a strong opinion. I dont 'know it' as the videos do not show it.. The CNN compilation plus NyT and others do not show it but they do show the agents draw their own side arms and aim them and then shoot.. None of the videos show a weapon similar to the one he was carrying being held or used.. The one thing you do not do if you believe you or your colleagues are at risk is to think of using a weapon that isn't yours especially as you have your own on your belt.. The one you know is loaded and is in safe mode, the one with the mag on you loaded and you know works.. Not something you dont have a clue about its status.. What reports have you seen? The claims from the administration are clearly false.. There are sworn avidavits BTW that say what all the videos show.. The gun went off as the agent took it, not an agent using it to shoot to kill. What this highlights is different levels of understanding, I could be correct in my summary, I could be wrong however I'm not blinkered to that. Again what is your source, if that is the case where is it shown ..? I said to the 'boss' it could be they're so poorly trained that when they took it from him one of them (like an amateur) picked it up and a negligent discharge occurred which in that situation is beyond stupid and that set them off.. Im open to anything that sheds a different light, with respect fella nothing I've found on everything I've looked on tells me different to what I've said so far.. Interestingly neither has the administration because you and i both know it wouldbe all over the channels by now.. (bovino) from ICE has now said an investigation is needed which is a change in tone and sickly ironic when DHS stopped local law enforcement from carrying out their own or a joint one.. Let's see how this actually plays out, I have been more than open that what I know maybe wrong, but more importantly I'm not pinning everything on what I don't know. Once the evidence comes to light, let's pick up again." | |||
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" (bovino) from ICE has now said an investigation is needed which is a change in tone and sickly ironic when DHS stopped local law enforcement from carrying out their own or a joint one.." Oh it’s even worse than that….. Under normal circumstances any police shooting would be a cooperative activity between the local state police and the Feds (FBI) In the case of Renee Good… the FBI which would be the lead agency, refused to work with the local police In this case, again this time the FBI refused to work with the local police In.. this time the state were prepared and went to a court judge asking them for a search warrant so they could be part of the investigation… they succeeded! Local police went back to the FBI with mandated search warrant…. FBI still refused to work with them In the end the state went back to federal court and got an injunction against the FBI ordering they could not tamper with, remove or destroy any evidence Any back to who would normally be the lead agency investigating.. The FBI, well they have actually turned over lead duties for the investigation to….. DHS Basically DHS are in effect investigating themselves…. Hmm.. sound fishy???? | |||
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"Is it a coincidence that both these awful killings have happened in Minnesota? This is a State where colossal levels of fraud mostly linked to the Somalian community have been discovered/are under investigation. Local Democratic politicians have alleged personal and financial links to the fraud and Governor Walz unexpectedly announced he would not run again for office after new examples were revealed. Clearly there is a strong motivation to keep any form of Federal agency away from the State, and to encourage dangerously confrontational tactics and a hostile environment by protesters as a means to do so. None of that excuses the actions of ICE agents in the two killings but it does raise very serious questions about the responsibilities of local politicians in escalating rather than defusing a dangerous atmosphere." Complete red herring! If fraud was really the excuse…. Would you actually not send in accountants! Or the DA financial crime department DOJ kinda gave the game away last night They said they would remove ICE agents from Minnesota if 3 conditions were met 1) state had to supply all Medicaid and child benefit programs such as SNAP 2) state had to revoke all sanctuary laws 3) state had to hand over all election voter rolls data to the Trump administration Why would they want those? They are setting up the fraud excuse for the midterms | |||
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" (bovino) from ICE has now said an investigation is needed which is a change in tone and sickly ironic when DHS stopped local law enforcement from carrying out their own or a joint one.. Oh it’s even worse than that….. Under normal circumstances any police shooting would be a cooperative activity between the local state police and the Feds (FBI) In the case of Renee Good… the FBI which would be the lead agency, refused to work with the local police In this case, again this time the FBI refused to work with the local police In.. this time the state were prepared and went to a court judge asking them for a search warrant so they could be part of the investigation… they succeeded! Local police went back to the FBI with mandated search warrant…. FBI still refused to work with them In the end the state went back to federal court and got an injunction against the FBI ordering they could not tamper with, remove or destroy any evidence Any back to who would normally be the lead agency investigating.. The FBI, well they have actually turned over lead duties for the investigation to….. DHS Basically DHS are in effect investigating themselves…. Hmm.. sound fishy????" No, not fishy .. Predictable tbh.. His new heads, FBI, Justice, DHS etc are all there to do what he says.. Troubling yes.. | |||
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"What a sad and inaccurate point of view. He tried to intervene in a woman being manhandled by masked thugs. He was then gassed and assaulted for his troubles before multiple big brave ICE agents wrestled him to the ground. The end is unfortunately now well known. Being shot multiple times in the back by trigger happy cowboys." This is the problem. They are not masked thugs they are law enforcement officers carrying out their job. Do not interfere with them and there is no problem. I haven’t got shot recently lol but I do abide by the law. We need to same here and remove the invading army. | |||
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"What a sad and inaccurate point of view. He tried to intervene in a woman being manhandled by masked thugs. He was then gassed and assaulted for his troubles before multiple big brave ICE agents wrestled him to the ground. The end is unfortunately now well known. Being shot multiple times in the back by trigger happy cowboys. This is the problem. They are not masked thugs they are law enforcement officers carrying out their job. Do not interfere with them and there is no problem. I haven’t got shot recently lol but I do abide by the law. We need to same here and remove the invading army. " WOW 😳 what's concerning is you're probably one of many with this opinion. Sad times. 😞 | |||
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"He brought it on by himself simple. " Sometimes it’s little things that when you look for potential playmates, can be so telling .. red flags so to speak… criteria that we use Compassion…. Common decency… a heart And anytime someone wants to do some research into a potential playmate.. they will be able to click on the lovely green arrow.. and this will appear Callous…. Unsympathetic… such turn ons | |||
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"He brought it on by himself simple. Sometimes it’s little things that when you look for potential playmates, can be so telling .. red flags so to speak… criteria that we use Compassion…. Common decency… a heart And anytime someone wants to do some research into a potential playmate.. they will be able to click on the lovely green arrow.. and this will appear Callous…. Unsympathetic… such turn ons " I have no problem expressing my views which are actually correct. Anyone currently supporting the illegals are part of the problem with why this world is so messed up. Those people are happy with criminals and the crimes they commit. | |||
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"He brought it on by himself simple. Sometimes it’s little things that when you look for potential playmates, can be so telling .. red flags so to speak… criteria that we use Compassion…. Common decency… a heart And anytime someone wants to do some research into a potential playmate.. they will be able to click on the lovely green arrow.. and this will appear Callous…. Unsympathetic… such turn ons I have no problem expressing my views which are actually correct. Anyone currently supporting the illegals are part of the problem with why this world is so messed up. Those people are happy with criminals and the crimes they commit. " Those people you are defending broke the 1st amendment, the 2nd amendment, the 4th amendment, the 6th Amendment, the 10th Amendment and I can make an argument that they broke the 14th amendment The moment that gentleman became a Good Samaritan and tried to help the woman shoved to the ground by the ICE agent his fate was sealed….. He didn’t interfere in an operation.. he legally filmed what was happening from a distance with his mobile phone Good trouble… | |||
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"He brought it on by himself simple. Sometimes it’s little things that when you look for potential playmates, can be so telling .. red flags so to speak… criteria that we use Compassion…. Common decency… a heart And anytime someone wants to do some research into a potential playmate.. they will be able to click on the lovely green arrow.. and this will appear Callous…. Unsympathetic… such turn ons I have no problem expressing my views which are actually correct. Anyone currently supporting the illegals are part of the problem with why this world is so messed up. Those people are happy with criminals and the crimes they commit. Those people you are defending broke the 1st amendment, the 2nd amendment, the 4th amendment, the 6th Amendment, the 10th Amendment and I can make an argument that they broke the 14th amendment The moment that gentleman became a Good Samaritan and tried to help the woman shoved to the ground by the ICE agent his fate was sealed….. He didn’t interfere in an operation.. he legally filmed what was happening from a distance with his mobile phone Good trouble… " He wasn’t a Good Samaritan he was interfering with a police officer trying to do their duty. | |||
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" He wasn’t a Good Samaritan he was interfering with a police officer trying to do their duty. " So which bit do you object to? That he had the audacity to film what was going on with his mobile phone! Or That he absolutely had the nerve to try and help a woman who had been vigorously shoved to the ground! | |||
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"He brought it on by himself simple. Sometimes it’s little things that when you look for potential playmates, can be so telling .. red flags so to speak… criteria that we use Compassion…. Common decency… a heart And anytime someone wants to do some research into a potential playmate.. they will be able to click on the lovely green arrow.. and this will appear Callous…. Unsympathetic… such turn ons " you do realise the majority of people on this site don't go anywhere near the forums don't you? And the people with the same views you hold on the forums are a very small portion of the people who post on here | |||
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"He brought it on by himself simple. Sometimes it’s little things that when you look for potential playmates, can be so telling .. red flags so to speak… criteria that we use Compassion…. Common decency… a heart And anytime someone wants to do some research into a potential playmate.. they will be able to click on the lovely green arrow.. and this will appear Callous…. Unsympathetic… such turn ons you do realise the majority of people on this site don't go anywhere near the forums don't you? And the people with the same views you hold on the forums are a very small portion of the people who post on here" | |||
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"...so ICE have no filter between themselves and the public, and end up dealing with situations for which they're not sufficiently trained." If they're not sufficiently trained, they should not be doing this very dangerous work. | |||
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"...so ICE have no filter between themselves and the public, and end up dealing with situations for which they're not sufficiently trained. If they're not sufficiently trained, they should not be doing this very dangerous work." Can you list the training criteria please | |||
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" . You Don't Take A Firearm To A Protest. . " The whole purpose of the second amendment is exactly to allow citizens to take a firearm to a protest, to curb government overreach. You may not agree with the wisdom of this, but it's exactly the type of thing that the funding fathers wanted. | |||
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"...so ICE have no filter between themselves and the public, and end up dealing with situations for which they're not sufficiently trained. If they're not sufficiently trained, they should not be doing this very dangerous work. Can you list the training criteria please " Huh? | |||
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" . You Don't Take A Firearm To A Protest. . The whole purpose of the second amendment is exactly to allow citizens to take a firearm to a protest, to curb government overreach. You may not agree with the wisdom of this, but it's exactly the type of thing that the funding fathers wanted." Behave lol - funding fathers, Perhaps way way way back then but not today Look where Being foolish ended him. | |||
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"...so ICE have no filter between themselves and the public, and end up dealing with situations for which they're not sufficiently trained. If they're not sufficiently trained, they should not be doing this very dangerous work. Can you list the training criteria please Huh?" You said... if their not sufficiently trained, im asking what is the training criteria? I take it you don't know? | |||
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"What a sad and inaccurate point of view. He tried to intervene in a woman being manhandled by masked thugs. He was then gassed and assaulted for his troubles before multiple big brave ICE agents wrestled him to the ground. The end is unfortunately now well known. Being shot multiple times in the back by trigger happy cowboys. This is the problem. They are not masked thugs they are law enforcement officers carrying out their job. Do not interfere with them and there is no problem. I haven’t got shot recently lol but I do abide by the law. We need to same here and remove the invading army. " Of course we do. Just remember when they run out of the non whites and the woke lefties to terrorise. The next will be trans, LBGT and people looking for sex with this group. People like you and me. But hey you will be like that Brexit guy complaining afterwards, this is not what I voted for. | |||
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"...so ICE have no filter between themselves and the public, and end up dealing with situations for which they're not sufficiently trained. If they're not sufficiently trained, they should not be doing this very dangerous work. Can you list the training criteria please Huh? You said... if their not sufficiently trained, im asking what is the training criteria? I take it you don't know?" Tall stories said they aren't sufficiently trained. Not the person you are responding to. | |||
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"Even though he had " open carry" to obtain and carry a Firearm . You Don't Take A Firearm To A Protest. " A) he didn’t do anything illegal, he never brandished it, he had his permit on him! B) the NRA and other 2A advocate groups would like a word……. | |||
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"...so ICE have no filter between themselves and the public, and end up dealing with situations for which they're not sufficiently trained. If they're not sufficiently trained, they should not be doing this very dangerous work." I would assume they are not properly trained to deal with the public as protesters/agitators in the way that normal local police are. ICE should be able to go about the work they are trained for without harassment and leave local police to deal with the public, but for political reasons they are not allowed to do so. | |||
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"...so ICE have no filter between themselves and the public, and end up dealing with situations for which they're not sufficiently trained. If they're not sufficiently trained, they should not be doing this very dangerous work. Can you list the training criteria please Huh? You said... if their not sufficiently trained, im asking what is the training criteria? I take it you don't know?" You will need to go up one post and ask the originator of that term. | |||
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"...so ICE have no filter between themselves and the public, and end up dealing with situations for which they're not sufficiently trained. If they're not sufficiently trained, they should not be doing this very dangerous work. I would assume they are not properly trained to deal with the public as protesters/agitators in the way that normal local police are. ICE should be able to go about the work they are trained for without harassment and leave local police to deal with the public, but for political reasons they are not allowed to do so. " Actually… im glad that there were people there recording with mobile phones, as then the administration can’t get away with the smear campaign, and the debunking of the version of events they tried to put out to control the narrative | |||
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"After talking with Trump, Walz has sent State Police in to deal with protesters/activists. If he'd done this from day one things could have been very different. " Actually… again… not quite true… They have been deployed because the local police have been so overstretched that even though they are all doing mandatory overtime, it’s still not enough because of the amount of incidents Minneapolis population is 500,000… trump sent 3000 federal agents… 1 agent for every 17 people of the population Overkill much????? Anyway the national guard have been sent to places like the wipple building (where the ICE centre is based) and the memorial to Alex pretti to relieve the local people so at least they can at least get some relief… Also the national guard are wearing fluorescent bibs over the uniform to distinguish themselves from ICE and BPD agents…. And have been handing out food and warm drinks | |||
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"I wonder how many hear in the UK need to be rounded up and sent back to their country of origin Many Many more than we imagine Plus those of whom do not want to follow our British way of life. There should be a Culling of immigrants in my view before things get out of hand like they are in London Just my opinion ofcourse although I suspect many others would agree " Culling - the reduction of a population by selective slaughter. Bit extreme even for some surely? | |||
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"I wonder how many hear in the UK need to be rounded up and sent back to their country of origin Many Many more than we imagine Plus those of whom do not want to follow our British way of life. There should be a Culling of immigrants in my view before things get out of hand like they are in London Just my opinion ofcourse although I suspect many others would agree Culling - the reduction of a population by selective slaughter. Bit extreme even for some surely?" I always find it fascinating that people of a certain “ilk” always pick on London…. As someone who lived in east London, multicultural London works just fine… I think they always pick on London because they know they would not win a single constituency in Greater London…. And they feel so butthurt! | |||
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" Minneapolis population is 500,000… trump sent 3000 federal agents… 1 agent for every 17 people of the population " Might want to check your maths on that 🤭 | |||
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"Another valuable and insightful comment. Thanks." You're welcome | |||
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"Why was he even there bothering armed agents with his cosplay tactical gear and gun?! Thrown his life away for some foreign criminals who are probably laughing at his death. The level of mental illness in these activists is incredible" He wasn’t there in tactical gear.. it was minus 30 f in Minnesota and everyone dresses like the Michelin man with 5 layers on! Anyway…. Love your interpretation.. were you watching a different video? He was filming from a distance with his mobile phone… not illegal They approached him! They violently shoved over the woman and he went to help her…and then an agent pepper sprayed them both! Minnesota is a conceal carry state.. he had his permit on him! The only time his gun left his back holster was when the agent removed it before he was shot! They also lied about The person who they were after … the only thing he actually had were driving tickets! I feel almost sorry for you that you have been so gaslighted…. | |||
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" Minneapolis population is 500,000… trump sent 3000 federal agents… 1 agent for every 17 people of the population Might want to check your maths on that 🤭" Forgot a zero… point stands… overkill | |||
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"He got what he deserved, same as that lady in the truck. Back law abiding people in to a corner long enough, making them watch their countries be destroyed and this will be the norm" 1) wow……… 2) wow……… 3) are they really “law abiding” if they are shooting an unarmed man in the back 9 times 4 ) if helping a woman who was shoved over is such a heinous act.. shoot me too! 5) how is a person who only legal misdemeanour on his record were “driving tickets” ruining the country I mean….. life in prison if you don’t return a library book!!! Amma right???? | |||
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"Will there be enough masks to go round for all flag shagging plastic patriots awaiting their call to purge Britain of the undesirables. And when they have all gone who do you turn on next?" The Trans, the gays, the disabled, the benefit scroungers. Whoever next the media tycoon tell them is to blame for their problems. | |||
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"To clarify, it hasn't been established if Pretti had his gun permit and ID on him, which is required by law. " Did they ask for him to show it..? Is the punishment for not carrying his gun permit, death..? | |||
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"To clarify, it hasn't been established if Pretti had his gun permit and ID on him, which is required by law. Did they ask for him to show it..? Is the punishment for not carrying his gun permit, death..?" It has been claimed several times on this thread that he was legally carrying a gun, but that has not been clarified. Facts are important. | |||
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"To clarify, it hasn't been established if Pretti had his gun permit and ID on him, which is required by law. Did they ask for him to show it..? Is the punishment for not carrying his gun permit, death..?" These killings aren't punishments they're designed as detterents and to instill terror. The 'crime' is irrelevant | |||
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"To clarify, it hasn't been established if Pretti had his gun permit and ID on him, which is required by law. Did they ask for him to show it..? Is the punishment for not carrying his gun permit, death..? These killings aren't punishments they're designed as detterents and to instill terror. The 'crime' is irrelevant " Perhaps the legal process should decide that ? | |||
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"To clarify, it hasn't been established if Pretti had his gun permit and ID on him, which is required by law. Did they ask for him to show it..? Is the punishment for not carrying his gun permit, death..? These killings aren't punishments they're designed as detterents and to instill terror. The 'crime' is irrelevant Perhaps the legal process should decide that ? " Decide what..? | |||
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"To clarify, it hasn't been established if Pretti had his gun permit and ID on him, which is required by law. Did they ask for him to show it..? Is the punishment for not carrying his gun permit, death..? These killings aren't punishments they're designed as detterents and to instill terror. The 'crime' is irrelevant Perhaps the legal process should decide that ? " If the killing was legal, most certainly but I said what I said | |||
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"To clarify, it hasn't been established if Pretti had his gun permit and ID on him, which is required by law. Did they ask for him to show it..? Is the punishment for not carrying his gun permit, death..? These killings aren't punishments they're designed as detterents and to instill terror. The 'crime' is irrelevant Perhaps the legal process should decide that ? Decide what..?" The exact circumstances around the death of Alex Pretti. | |||
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"To clarify, it hasn't been established if Pretti had his gun permit and ID on him, which is required by law. Did they ask for him to show it..? Is the punishment for not carrying his gun permit, death..? These killings aren't punishments they're designed as detterents and to instill terror. The 'crime' is irrelevant Perhaps the legal process should decide that ? Decide what..? The exact circumstances around the death of Alex Pretti. " Ill hold my breath. | |||
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"To clarify, it hasn't been established if Pretti had his gun permit and ID on him, which is required by law. Did they ask for him to show it..? Is the punishment for not carrying his gun permit, death..? These killings aren't punishments they're designed as detterents and to instill terror. The 'crime' is irrelevant Perhaps the legal process should decide that ? Decide what..? The exact circumstances around the death of Alex Pretti. Ill hold my breath. " Don't! | |||
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"To clarify, it hasn't been established if Pretti had his gun permit and ID on him, which is required by law. Did they ask for him to show it..? Is the punishment for not carrying his gun permit, death..? These killings aren't punishments they're designed as detterents and to instill terror. The 'crime' is irrelevant Perhaps the legal process should decide that ? " Well maybe the legal process will decide if he was carrying his gun permit too. But that didn't stop you speculating about it. | |||
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"To clarify, it hasn't been established if Pretti had his gun permit and ID on him, which is required by law. " It was….Which is why DHS originally put out that he was a 51 yr old immigrant with No ID to justify the story….only for the Minneapolis police department in their press conference 10 minutes later to say they had confirmed who he was…. Because he had his gun permit on him!!! But you keep clutching at those straws for excuses and gaslight people | |||
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"I think even if he only had a mobile phone they would have said it was an gin. Or his hand looked gun like Or He looked at them funny and they felt threatened. I'm not trying to make light of the situation but rather expose the dumb stupidity of the agents, who are so brave they don't even show their faces "They don't show their faces because they and their families are subject to constant harassment and violence from far left activists. | |||
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"To clarify, it hasn't been established if Pretti had his gun permit and ID on him, which is required by law. It was….Which is why DHS originally put out that he was a 51 yr old immigrant with No ID to justify the story….only for the Minneapolis police department in their press conference 10 minutes later to say they had confirmed who he was…. Because he had his gun permit on him!!! But you keep clutching at those straws for excuses and gaslight people "Do you have a link for that? I understood they said he had a permit, not that he was carrying one. | |||
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"To clarify, it hasn't been established if Pretti had his gun permit and ID on him, which is required by law. It was….Which is why DHS originally put out that he was a 51 yr old immigrant with No ID to justify the story….only for the Minneapolis police department in their press conference 10 minutes later to say they had confirmed who he was…. Because he had his gun permit on him!!! But you keep clutching at those straws for excuses and gaslight people
Do you have a link for that? I understood they said he had a permit, not that he was carrying one. "You always need to carry your permit with you if you are outside with a gun on all occasion.. be that if you are in a car, or just outside The police department found his permit on him when they were accompanying him in an ambulance on route from the scene to the hospital where he was pronounced dead! If he didn’t have it with him that would have come out.. and the government would be using that as an excuse! They are not! | |||
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"To clarify, it hasn't been established if Pretti had his gun permit and ID on him, which is required by law. It was….Which is why DHS originally put out that he was a 51 yr old immigrant with No ID to justify the story….only for the Minneapolis police department in their press conference 10 minutes later to say they had confirmed who he was…. Because he had his gun permit on him!!! But you keep clutching at those straws for excuses and gaslight people
Do you have a link for that? I understood they said he had a permit, not that he was carrying one.
You always need to carry your permit with you if you are outside with a gun on all occasion.. be that if you are in a car, or just outside
The police department found his permit on him when they were accompanying him in an ambulance on route from the scene to the hospital where he was pronounced dead!
If he didn’t have it with him that would have come out.. and the government would be using that as an excuse! They are not! "Again, a link for this claim please as I can't find it anywhere online. | |||
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"He got what he deserved, same as that lady in the truck. Back law abiding people in to a corner long enough, making them watch their countries be destroyed and this will be the norm 1) wow……… 2) wow……… 3) are they really “law abiding” if they are shooting an unarmed man in the back 9 times 4 ) if helping a woman who was shoved over is such a heinous act.. shoot me too! 5) how is a person who only legal misdemeanour on his record were “driving tickets” ruining the country I mean….. life in prison if you don’t return a library book!!! Amma right???? " In your item 3, you state he was an unarmed man, again utter nonsense, he had one handgun fully on display and holstered, which was removed from him If he carries one gun, how did they know that he never had another which could have been hidden anyplace on his body or in his clothing? ICE were tackling him and he was obviously fighting back or it wouldn't have taken so many to ground him. Thankfully they removed one gun from him, but they had no idea if he had another, so ICE took precautions to save their men and all the public around them. How can you criticise these men who were clearly looking after the surrounding public. | |||
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"Reports from Pretti's family that he never carried his gun and they'd been worried about his behaviour since joining activist groups. " If he plays with fire........ | |||
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