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Free Movement of Labour
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"Now the EU has made it clear that if we want to remain in the Single Market we will have to accept free movement of people; should we stay in the single market, get the economic benefits, but keep immigration, or should we leave the single market, take the economic hit and limit immigration?" That would be cataclysmic and pre-empt a recession at least twice as bad as what we have just come through. It really frustrates me tbh. Remember all the bravado comments on here and elsewhere... "Do you think the Germans will want tariffs on the BMW's that they sell to us?" "Stuff em... They need us more than we need them." "They export much more to us, than we do to them. They cant afford not to let us have free trade access on ourv terms" | |||
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"Im not aware that anyone knows what will happen. No talks have taken place. Only media speculation. What will the single market look like in 2 years. Will the people of Europe get a voice and what will they say. If we do well over the next 10 yrs how many will follow. Its all short term views at the moment ." No talks have taken place, I agree with you there. Its “only media speculation” will I have to disagree with you there. In a statement from the Heads of State of 27 Member States (i.e. all members, apart from the UK) that was issued today it states: “In the future, we hope to have the UK as a close partner of the EU and we look forward to the UK stating its intentions in this respect. Any agreement, which will be concluded with the UK as third country, will have to be based on a balance of rights and obligations. Access to the Single Market requires acceptance of all four freedoms [Freedom of Labour, Capital, Services and Goods]." | |||
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"Now the EU has made it clear that if we want to remain in the Single Market we will have to accept free movement of people; should we stay in the single market, get the economic benefits, but keep immigration, or should we leave the single market, take the economic hit and limit immigration? That would be cataclysmic and pre-empt a recession at least twice as bad as what we have just come through. It really frustrates me tbh. Remember all the bravado comments on here and elsewhere... "Do you think the Germans will want tariffs on the BMW's that they sell to us?" "Stuff em... They need us more than we need them." "They export much more to us, than we do to them. They cant afford not to let us have free trade access on ourv terms" " Heres what the German car industry thinks http://www.dailyreleased.com/business/eu-referendum-german-car-makers-warn-on-free-movement/ Best re think your ideas !!! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Now the EU has made it clear that if we want to remain in the Single Market we will have to accept free movement of people; should we stay in the single market, get the economic benefits, but keep immigration, or should we leave the single market, take the economic hit and limit immigration? That would be cataclysmic and pre-empt a recession at least twice as bad as what we have just come through. It really frustrates me tbh. Remember all the bravado comments on here and elsewhere... "Do you think the Germans will want tariffs on the BMW's that they sell to us?" "Stuff em... They need us more than we need them." "They export much more to us, than we do to them. They cant afford not to let us have free trade access on ourv terms" Heres what the German car industry thinks http://www.dailyreleased.com/business/eu-referendum-german-car-makers-warn-on-free-movement/ Best re think your ideas !!! " Well I guess it comes down to who you believe then, the heads of state of 27 countries, or a bunch of car makers in one country. | |||
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"Now the EU has made it clear that if we want to remain in the Single Market we will have to accept free movement of people; should we stay in the single market, get the economic benefits, but keep immigration, or should we leave the single market, take the economic hit and limit immigration?" One of the first candidates to throw his hat in the ring for the tory leadership, Steven Crabb (who was a remainer) said he is going for the leadership of the tory party on the basis that any negotiation deal he does with the EU restrictions on immigration to the UK must apply and will be one of his Red lines that he will not cross, so that is a clear message to the EU. David Cameron also told the EU yesterday in Brussels that if they want a future trade deal with the UK they will have to negotiate on the free movement of people. Boris Johnson who I think is the favourite for the leadership will also insist that we will no longer accept Free movement of people, we must have control over our own borders as it was one of the main reasons for voting Leave. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Now the EU has made it clear that if we want to remain in the Single Market we will have to accept free movement of people; should we stay in the single market, get the economic benefits, but keep immigration, or should we leave the single market, take the economic hit and limit immigration? That would be cataclysmic and pre-empt a recession at least twice as bad as what we have just come through. It really frustrates me tbh. Remember all the bravado comments on here and elsewhere... "Do you think the Germans will want tariffs on the BMW's that they sell to us?" "Stuff em... They need us more than we need them." "They export much more to us, than we do to them. They cant afford not to let us have free trade access on ourv terms" Heres what the German car industry thinks http://www.dailyreleased.com/business/eu-referendum-german-car-makers-warn-on-free-movement/ Best re think your ideas !!! Well I guess it comes down to who you believe then, the heads of state of 27 countries, or a bunch of car makers in one country." The EU and the car makers are saying the same thing, actually (that we'll need to accept free movement). | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Now the EU has made it clear that if we want to remain in the Single Market we will have to accept free movement of people; should we stay in the single market, get the economic benefits, but keep immigration, or should we leave the single market, take the economic hit and limit immigration? That would be cataclysmic and pre-empt a recession at least twice as bad as what we have just come through. It really frustrates me tbh. Remember all the bravado comments on here and elsewhere... "Do you think the Germans will want tariffs on the BMW's that they sell to us?" "Stuff em... They need us more than we need them." "They export much more to us, than we do to them. They cant afford not to let us have free trade access on ourv terms" Heres what the German car industry thinks http://www.dailyreleased.com/business/eu-referendum-german-car-makers-warn-on-free-movement/ Best re think your ideas !!! Well I guess it comes down to who you believe then, the heads of state of 27 countries, or a bunch of car makers in one country." The German CBI said just before the referendum vote that they want a free trade deal with Britain if we leave. The German car industry is the most powerful lobby in Brussels. Angela Merkel also knows that she needs to keep German car industry sweet if she is to have any chance of being re-elected next year. I would say Britain is in a strong position despite the mutterings currently coming from Brussels. | |||
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"There is an assumption that no other countries will have a vote in the near future which could weaken the EU further. I would like to see the demise of the EU and the creation of a free trade area.Which could be expanded greatly" I don’t think that any other country will have a in/out referendum before we have fully concluded our negotiations. We are the guinea pig. The demise of the EU would cause a massive world wide recession. Why would you want that? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Now the EU has made it clear that if we want to remain in the Single Market we will have to accept free movement of people; should we stay in the single market, get the economic benefits, but keep immigration, or should we leave the single market, take the economic hit and limit immigration? That would be cataclysmic and pre-empt a recession at least twice as bad as what we have just come through. It really frustrates me tbh. Remember all the bravado comments on here and elsewhere... "Do you think the Germans will want tariffs on the BMW's that they sell to us?" "Stuff em... They need us more than we need them." "They export much more to us, than we do to them. They cant afford not to let us have free trade access on ourv terms" Heres what the German car industry thinks http://www.dailyreleased.com/business/eu-referendum-german-car-makers-warn-on-free-movement/ Best re think your ideas !!! Well I guess it comes down to who you believe then, the heads of state of 27 countries, or a bunch of car makers in one country. The EU and the car makers are saying the same thing, actually (that we'll need to accept free movement)." So they are! Ignore me, nothing to see here!  | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Funny how things turn out leave campaign said we need to get out cuz turkey is gona join the EU now if we did keep the single market and Turkey does join the EU..the UK will have no say in the matter which it had before.." Members get a veto on new members joining, they also get to put a barrier on the free movement of people for unto 10 years. We wouldn’t have either of those anymore. Daft isn’t it? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Now the EU has made it clear that if we want to remain in the Single Market we will have to accept free movement of people; should we stay in the single market, get the economic benefits, but keep immigration, or should we leave the single market, take the economic hit and limit immigration? That would be cataclysmic and pre-empt a recession at least twice as bad as what we have just come through. It really frustrates me tbh. Remember all the bravado comments on here and elsewhere... "Do you think the Germans will want tariffs on the BMW's that they sell to us?" "Stuff em... They need us more than we need them." "They export much more to us, than we do to them. They cant afford not to let us have free trade access on ourv terms" Heres what the German car industry thinks http://www.dailyreleased.com/business/eu-referendum-german-car-makers-warn-on-free-movement/ Best re think your ideas !!! Well I guess it comes down to who you believe then, the heads of state of 27 countries, or a bunch of car makers in one country. The German CBI said just before the referendum vote that they want a free trade deal with Britain if we leave. The German car industry is the most powerful lobby in Brussels. Angela Merkel also knows that she needs to keep German car industry sweet if she is to have any chance of being re-elected next year. I would say Britain is in a strong position despite the mutterings currently coming from Brussels. " nonsense it's not just the German leader any of the 27 can veto the deal and I'm sure France will no car manufacturer in the world is more powerful than the EU if they were then they would be running the EU we can sugar coat it and no believe it how much we like but everyone knows in the end it will be the UK who concede not the eu | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Funny how things turn out leave campaign said we need to get out cuz turkey is gona join the EU now if we did keep the single market and Turkey does join the EU..the UK will have no say in the matter which it had before.." Lol... It turns out the Brexiteers have lied and are now backtracking. Fools | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Now the EU has made it clear that if we want to remain in the Single Market we will have to accept free movement of people; should we stay in the single market, get the economic benefits, but keep immigration, or should we leave the single market, take the economic hit and limit immigration? That would be cataclysmic and pre-empt a recession at least twice as bad as what we have just come through. It really frustrates me tbh. Remember all the bravado comments on here and elsewhere... "Do you think the Germans will want tariffs on the BMW's that they sell to us?" "Stuff em... They need us more than we need them." "They export much more to us, than we do to them. They cant afford not to let us have free trade access on ourv terms" Heres what the German car industry thinks http://www.dailyreleased.com/business/eu-referendum-german-car-makers-warn-on-free-movement/ Best re think your ideas !!! Well I guess it comes down to who you believe then, the heads of state of 27 countries, or a bunch of car makers in one country. The German CBI said just before the referendum vote that they want a free trade deal with Britain if we leave. The German car industry is the most powerful lobby in Brussels. Angela Merkel also knows that she needs to keep German car industry sweet if she is to have any chance of being re-elected next year. I would say Britain is in a strong position despite the mutterings currently coming from Brussels. " I believe the. 27 heads of state any deal with come with compromises ..it won't be anything like farage or bojo were selling | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Now the EU has made it clear that if we want to remain in the Single Market we will have to accept free movement of people; should we stay in the single market, get the economic benefits, but keep immigration, or should we leave the single market, take the economic hit and limit immigration? That would be cataclysmic and pre-empt a recession at least twice as bad as what we have just come through. It really frustrates me tbh. Remember all the bravado comments on here and elsewhere... "Do you think the Germans will want tariffs on the BMW's that they sell to us?" "Stuff em... They need us more than we need them." "They export much more to us, than we do to them. They cant afford not to let us have free trade access on ourv terms" Heres what the German car industry thinks http://www.dailyreleased.com/business/eu-referendum-german-car-makers-warn-on-free-movement/ Best re think your ideas !!! Well I guess it comes down to who you believe then, the heads of state of 27 countries, or a bunch of car makers in one country. The German CBI said just before the referendum vote that they want a free trade deal with Britain if we leave. The German car industry is the most powerful lobby in Brussels. Angela Merkel also knows that she needs to keep German car industry sweet if she is to have any chance of being re-elected next year. I would say Britain is in a strong position despite the mutterings currently coming from Brussels. nonsense it's not just the German leader any of the 27 can veto the deal and I'm sure France will no car manufacturer in the world is more powerful than the EU if they were then they would be running the EU we can sugar coat it and no believe it how much we like but everyone knows in the end it will be the UK who concede not the eu" It's not nonsense at all, what Germany says in the EU goes. Besides if the EU don't want to play ball with us then we can say ok we will leave the single market to keep control of our borders and we will do a trade deal through the World trade organisation rules. This will mean tariffs but tariffs are a 2 way thing, they put tariffs on our good we put tariffs on their goods. It will hurt them if they want to cut off their nose to spite their faces let them go ahead and do it. The eurozone is already in difficulty, will they really want to make it worse and then risk others leaving? I don't think so. Meanwhile outside of the EU other countries in the world are already queueing up to do trade deals with an independent Britain. Australia and New Zealand are in a race to be the first country to do a trade deal with us. Other countries all over the world have said they want trade deals with us. We should be looking globally, not just at the EU. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Now the EU has made it clear that if we want to remain in the Single Market we will have to accept free movement of people; should we stay in the single market, get the economic benefits, but keep immigration, or should we leave the single market, take the economic hit and limit immigration? That would be cataclysmic and pre-empt a recession at least twice as bad as what we have just come through. It really frustrates me tbh. Remember all the bravado comments on here and elsewhere... "Do you think the Germans will want tariffs on the BMW's that they sell to us?" "Stuff em... They need us more than we need them." "They export much more to us, than we do to them. They cant afford not to let us have free trade access on ourv terms" Heres what the German car industry thinks http://www.dailyreleased.com/business/eu-referendum-german-car-makers-warn-on-free-movement/ Best re think your ideas !!! Well I guess it comes down to who you believe then, the heads of state of 27 countries, or a bunch of car makers in one country. The German CBI said just before the referendum vote that they want a free trade deal with Britain if we leave. The German car industry is the most powerful lobby in Brussels. Angela Merkel also knows that she needs to keep German car industry sweet if she is to have any chance of being re-elected next year. I would say Britain is in a strong position despite the mutterings currently coming from Brussels. nonsense it's not just the German leader any of the 27 can veto the deal and I'm sure France will no car manufacturer in the world is more powerful than the EU if they were then they would be running the EU we can sugar coat it and no believe it how much we like but everyone knows in the end it will be the UK who concede not the eu It's not nonsense at all, what Germany says in the EU goes. Besides if the EU don't want to play ball with us then we can say ok we will leave the single market to keep control of our borders and we will do a trade deal through the World trade organisation rules. This will mean tariffs but tariffs are a 2 way thing, they put tariffs on our good we put tariffs on their goods. It will hurt them if they want to cut off their nose to spite their faces let them go ahead and do it. The eurozone is already in difficulty, will they really want to make it worse and then risk others leaving? I don't think so. Meanwhile outside of the EU other countries in the world are already queueing up to do trade deals with an independent Britain. Australia and New Zealand are in a race to be the first country to do a trade deal with us. Other countries all over the world have said they want trade deals with us. We should be looking globally, not just at the EU. " Oz and NZ are tiny markets in comparison with the US, EU or China. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Now the EU has made it clear that if we want to remain in the Single Market we will have to accept free movement of people; should we stay in the single market, get the economic benefits, but keep immigration, or should we leave the single market, take the economic hit and limit immigration?" We are not lap dogs . we will not be dictated to . we WILL be the dictators . get a bloody grip and stand up for yourselves, you sound like the EU is still pulling your strings. Honestly, some Brits really piss me off, no back bone at all. | |||
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"Now the EU has made it clear that if we want to remain in the Single Market we will have to accept free movement of people; should we stay in the single market, get the economic benefits, but keep immigration, or should we leave the single market, take the economic hit and limit immigration? We are not lap dogs . we will not be dictated to . we WILL be the dictators . get a bloody grip and stand up for yourselves, you sound like the EU is still pulling your strings. Honestly, some Brits really piss me off, no back bone at all." "We will be the dictators?" Maybe we could set up interment camps for people who voted remain to speed things up?  | |||
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"It's not nonsense at all, what Germany says in the EU goes. Besides if the EU don't want to play ball with us then we can say ok we will leave the single market to keep control of our borders and we will do a trade deal through the World trade organisation rules. This will mean tariffs but tariffs are a 2 way thing, they put tariffs on our good we put tariffs on their goods. It will hurt them if they want to cut off their nose to spite their faces let them go ahead and do it. The eurozone is already in difficulty, will they really want to make it worse and then risk others leaving? I don't think so. Meanwhile outside of the EU other countries in the world are already queueing up to do trade deals with an independent Britain. Australia and New Zealand are in a race to be the first country to do a trade deal with us. Other countries all over the world have said they want trade deals with us. We should be looking globally, not just at the EU. " Centaur well said,  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Now the EU has made it clear that if we want to remain in the Single Market we will have to accept free movement of people; should we stay in the single market, get the economic benefits, but keep immigration, or should we leave the single market, take the economic hit and limit immigration? That would be cataclysmic and pre-empt a recession at least twice as bad as what we have just come through. It really frustrates me tbh. Remember all the bravado comments on here and elsewhere... "Do you think the Germans will want tariffs on the BMW's that they sell to us?" "Stuff em... They need us more than we need them." "They export much more to us, than we do to them. They cant afford not to let us have free trade access on ourv terms" Heres what the German car industry thinks http://www.dailyreleased.com/business/eu-referendum-german-car-makers-warn-on-free-movement/ Best re think your ideas !!! Well I guess it comes down to who you believe then, the heads of state of 27 countries, or a bunch of car makers in one country. The German CBI said just before the referendum vote that they want a free trade deal with Britain if we leave. The German car industry is the most powerful lobby in Brussels. Angela Merkel also knows that she needs to keep German car industry sweet if she is to have any chance of being re-elected next year. I would say Britain is in a strong position despite the mutterings currently coming from Brussels. nonsense it's not just the German leader any of the 27 can veto the deal and I'm sure France will no car manufacturer in the world is more powerful than the EU if they were then they would be running the EU we can sugar coat it and no believe it how much we like but everyone knows in the end it will be the UK who concede not the eu It's not nonsense at all, what Germany says in the EU goes. Besides if the EU don't want to play ball with us then we can say ok we will leave the single market to keep control of our borders and we will do a trade deal through the World trade organisation rules. This will mean tariffs but tariffs are a 2 way thing, they put tariffs on our good we put tariffs on their goods. It will hurt them if they want to cut off their nose to spite their faces let them go ahead and do it. The eurozone is already in difficulty, will they really want to make it worse and then risk others leaving? I don't think so. Meanwhile outside of the EU other countries in the world are already queueing up to do trade deals with an independent Britain. Australia and New Zealand are in a race to be the first country to do a trade deal with us. Other countries all over the world have said they want trade deals with us. We should be looking globally, not just at the EU. Oz and NZ are tiny markets in comparison with the US, EU or China." On the USA Donald Trump said he wants a good trade deal with Britain if he becomes President later this year. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Now the EU has made it clear that if we want to remain in the Single Market we will have to accept free movement of people; should we stay in the single market, get the economic benefits, but keep immigration, or should we leave the single market, take the economic hit and limit immigration? That would be cataclysmic and pre-empt a recession at least twice as bad as what we have just come through. It really frustrates me tbh. Remember all the bravado comments on here and elsewhere... "Do you think the Germans will want tariffs on the BMW's that they sell to us?" "Stuff em... They need us more than we need them." "They export much more to us, than we do to them. They cant afford not to let us have free trade access on ourv terms" Heres what the German car industry thinks http://www.dailyreleased.com/business/eu-referendum-german-car-makers-warn-on-free-movement/ Best re think your ideas !!! Well I guess it comes down to who you believe then, the heads of state of 27 countries, or a bunch of car makers in one country. The German CBI said just before the referendum vote that they want a free trade deal with Britain if we leave. The German car industry is the most powerful lobby in Brussels. Angela Merkel also knows that she needs to keep German car industry sweet if she is to have any chance of being re-elected next year. I would say Britain is in a strong position despite the mutterings currently coming from Brussels. nonsense it's not just the German leader any of the 27 can veto the deal and I'm sure France will no car manufacturer in the world is more powerful than the EU if they were then they would be running the EU we can sugar coat it and no believe it how much we like but everyone knows in the end it will be the UK who concede not the eu It's not nonsense at all, what Germany says in the EU goes. Besides if the EU don't want to play ball with us then we can say ok we will leave the single market to keep control of our borders and we will do a trade deal through the World trade organisation rules. This will mean tariffs but tariffs are a 2 way thing, they put tariffs on our good we put tariffs on their goods. It will hurt them if they want to cut off their nose to spite their faces let them go ahead and do it. The eurozone is already in difficulty, will they really want to make it worse and then risk others leaving? I don't think so. Meanwhile outside of the EU other countries in the world are already queueing up to do trade deals with an independent Britain. Australia and New Zealand are in a race to be the first country to do a trade deal with us. Other countries all over the world have said they want trade deals with us. We should be looking globally, not just at the EU. " cut of your nose to spite your face ...that's exactly how I describe brexit ...you guys say the EU is a big undemocratic organisation that the UK had no say in....well please explain to me if you're paying member of club and the management didn't lisent why on earth would the same undemocratic organisation lisent to you after you cancel your subscription? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Now the EU has made it clear that if we want to remain in the Single Market we will have to accept free movement of people; should we stay in the single market, get the economic benefits, but keep immigration, or should we leave the single market, take the economic hit and limit immigration?" If sense does not prevail and the EU insist on free movement of people then it must be leave. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Now the EU has made it clear that if we want to remain in the Single Market we will have to accept free movement of people; should we stay in the single market, get the economic benefits, but keep immigration, or should we leave the single market, take the economic hit and limit immigration? That would be cataclysmic and pre-empt a recession at least twice as bad as what we have just come through. It really frustrates me tbh. Remember all the bravado comments on here and elsewhere... "Do you think the Germans will want tariffs on the BMW's that they sell to us?" "Stuff em... They need us more than we need them." "They export much more to us, than we do to them. They cant afford not to let us have free trade access on ourv terms" Heres what the German car industry thinks http://www.dailyreleased.com/business/eu-referendum-german-car-makers-warn-on-free-movement/ Best re think your ideas !!! Well I guess it comes down to who you believe then, the heads of state of 27 countries, or a bunch of car makers in one country. The German CBI said just before the referendum vote that they want a free trade deal with Britain if we leave. The German car industry is the most powerful lobby in Brussels. Angela Merkel also knows that she needs to keep German car industry sweet if she is to have any chance of being re-elected next year. I would say Britain is in a strong position despite the mutterings currently coming from Brussels. nonsense it's not just the German leader any of the 27 can veto the deal and I'm sure France will no car manufacturer in the world is more powerful than the EU if they were then they would be running the EU we can sugar coat it and no believe it how much we like but everyone knows in the end it will be the UK who concede not the eu It's not nonsense at all, what Germany says in the EU goes. Besides if the EU don't want to play ball with us then we can say ok we will leave the single market to keep control of our borders and we will do a trade deal through the World trade organisation rules. This will mean tariffs but tariffs are a 2 way thing, they put tariffs on our good we put tariffs on their goods. It will hurt them if they want to cut off their nose to spite their faces let them go ahead and do it. The eurozone is already in difficulty, will they really want to make it worse and then risk others leaving? I don't think so. Meanwhile outside of the EU other countries in the world are already queueing up to do trade deals with an independent Britain. Australia and New Zealand are in a race to be the first country to do a trade deal with us. Other countries all over the world have said they want trade deals with us. We should be looking globally, not just at the EU. Oz and NZ are tiny markets in comparison with the US, EU or China. On the USA Donald Trump said he wants a good trade deal with Britain if he becomes President later this year. " Donald Trump? LOL A joke politician for these laughable time. Yeah. Good work | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Now the EU has made it clear that if we want to remain in the Single Market we will have to accept free movement of people; should we stay in the single market, get the economic benefits, but keep immigration, or should we leave the single market, take the economic hit and limit immigration? That would be cataclysmic and pre-empt a recession at least twice as bad as what we have just come through. It really frustrates me tbh. Remember all the bravado comments on here and elsewhere... "Do you think the Germans will want tariffs on the BMW's that they sell to us?" "Stuff em... They need us more than we need them." "They export much more to us, than we do to them. They cant afford not to let us have free trade access on ourv terms" Heres what the German car industry thinks http://www.dailyreleased.com/business/eu-referendum-german-car-makers-warn-on-free-movement/ Best re think your ideas !!! Well I guess it comes down to who you believe then, the heads of state of 27 countries, or a bunch of car makers in one country. The German CBI said just before the referendum vote that they want a free trade deal with Britain if we leave. The German car industry is the most powerful lobby in Brussels. Angela Merkel also knows that she needs to keep German car industry sweet if she is to have any chance of being re-elected next year. I would say Britain is in a strong position despite the mutterings currently coming from Brussels. nonsense it's not just the German leader any of the 27 can veto the deal and I'm sure France will no car manufacturer in the world is more powerful than the EU if they were then they would be running the EU we can sugar coat it and no believe it how much we like but everyone knows in the end it will be the UK who concede not the eu It's not nonsense at all, what Germany says in the EU goes. Besides if the EU don't want to play ball with us then we can say ok we will leave the single market to keep control of our borders and we will do a trade deal through the World trade organisation rules. This will mean tariffs but tariffs are a 2 way thing, they put tariffs on our good we put tariffs on their goods. It will hurt them if they want to cut off their nose to spite their faces let them go ahead and do it. The eurozone is already in difficulty, will they really want to make it worse and then risk others leaving? I don't think so. Meanwhile outside of the EU other countries in the world are already queueing up to do trade deals with an independent Britain. Australia and New Zealand are in a race to be the first country to do a trade deal with us. Other countries all over the world have said they want trade deals with us. We should be looking globally, not just at the EU. cut of your nose to spite your face ...that's exactly how I describe brexit ...you guys say the EU is a big undemocratic organisation that the UK had no say in....well please explain to me if you're paying member of club and the management didn't lisent why on earth would the same undemocratic organisation lisent to you after you cancel your subscription?" You just spelled it out in your own words there, we never had free trade with the EU because we were a "fully paid up member of the club". If you pay an EU membership fee to access the single market (like we were doing) then it's not free is it. The EU membership fee is a tariff. | |||
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"Now the EU has made it clear that if we want to remain in the Single Market we will have to accept free movement of people; should we stay in the single market, get the economic benefits, but keep immigration, or should we leave the single market, take the economic hit and limit immigration? If sense does not prevail and the EU insist on free movement of people then it must be leave." You might choose to think that way, no politician would push the economic self destruct button by doing it. 3,500,000 directly employed in businesses/industry that trade in the single market 2,500,000 indirectly employed in support sectors £227 billion in exports to EU Tax revenues directly from production approx £40 billion Indirect taxes from PAYE, NI, fuel and other duties estimated £30-£50 billion Yes - we will just fuck that off cos we dont want any more Polish and Spanish waiters. | |||
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"The more I listen to EU demands now that we have voted to leave, the more I stand firm with my decision and the more convinced I am that Leave was the right decision, we have done the right thing "I'm afraid access to the Single Market - the most important issue now facing the country - is dependent on the UK accepting freedom of movement. Sorry, but that's fact | |||
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"Now the EU has made it clear that if we want to remain in the Single Market we will have to accept free movement of people; should we stay in the single market, get the economic benefits, but keep immigration, or should we leave the single market, take the economic hit and limit immigration? We are not lap dogs . we will not be dictated to . we WILL be the dictators . get a bloody grip and stand up for yourselves, you sound like the EU is still pulling your strings. Honestly, some Brits really piss me off, no back bone at all." I don’t want this to descend into a slanging match, but I think your vision of the way the world works is very different to the way I see it. 443 million people Vs 65 million people, the 443 million have the upper hand. | |||
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"Now the EU has made it clear that if we want to remain in the Single Market we will have to accept free movement of people; should we stay in the single market, get the economic benefits, but keep immigration, or should we leave the single market, take the economic hit and limit immigration? That would be cataclysmic and pre-empt a recession at least twice as bad as what we have just come through. It really frustrates me tbh. Remember all the bravado comments on here and elsewhere... "Do you think the Germans will want tariffs on the BMW's that they sell to us?" "Stuff em... They need us more than we need them." "They export much more to us, than we do to them. They cant afford not to let us have free trade access on ourv terms" Heres what the German car industry thinks http://www.dailyreleased.com/business/eu-referendum-german-car-makers-warn-on-free-movement/ Best re think your ideas !!! Well I guess it comes down to who you believe then, the heads of state of 27 countries, or a bunch of car makers in one country. The German CBI said just before the referendum vote that they want a free trade deal with Britain if we leave. The German car industry is the most powerful lobby in Brussels. Angela Merkel also knows that she needs to keep German car industry sweet if she is to have any chance of being re-elected next year. I would say Britain is in a strong position despite the mutterings currently coming from Brussels. nonsense it's not just the German leader any of the 27 can veto the deal and I'm sure France will no car manufacturer in the world is more powerful than the EU if they were then they would be running the EU we can sugar coat it and no believe it how much we like but everyone knows in the end it will be the UK who concede not the eu It's not nonsense at all, what Germany says in the EU goes. Besides if the EU don't want to play ball with us then we can say ok we will leave the single market to keep control of our borders and we will do a trade deal through the World trade organisation rules. This will mean tariffs but tariffs are a 2 way thing, they put tariffs on our good we put tariffs on their goods. It will hurt them if they want to cut off their nose to spite their faces let them go ahead and do it. The eurozone is already in difficulty, will they really want to make it worse and then risk others leaving? I don't think so. Meanwhile outside of the EU other countries in the world are already queueing up to do trade deals with an independent Britain. Australia and New Zealand are in a race to be the first country to do a trade deal with us. Other countries all over the world have said they want trade deals with us. We should be looking globally, not just at the EU. Oz and NZ are tiny markets in comparison with the US, EU or China. On the USA Donald Trump said he wants a good trade deal with Britain if he becomes President later this year. Donald Trump? LOL A joke politician for these laughable time. Yeah. Good work "Forgive me if I don't take a blind bit of notice of your predictions Joe, you were so cock sure of yourself that Remain would win the referendum, guess what you were wrong. I think Donald Trump will beat Hillary Clinton and Trump will be the next President. Whether you think Trump is a joke or not is frankly irrelevant. If he is president then we will be dealing with him and he said he wants a trade deal with Britain. | |||
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"Now the EU has made it clear that if we want to remain in the Single Market we will have to accept free movement of people; should we stay in the single market, get the economic benefits, but keep immigration, or should we leave the single market, take the economic hit and limit immigration? That would be cataclysmic and pre-empt a recession at least twice as bad as what we have just come through. It really frustrates me tbh. Remember all the bravado comments on here and elsewhere... "Do you think the Germans will want tariffs on the BMW's that they sell to us?" "Stuff em... They need us more than we need them." "They export much more to us, than we do to them. They cant afford not to let us have free trade access on ourv terms" Heres what the German car industry thinks http://www.dailyreleased.com/business/eu-referendum-german-car-makers-warn-on-free-movement/ Best re think your ideas !!! Well I guess it comes down to who you believe then, the heads of state of 27 countries, or a bunch of car makers in one country. The German CBI said just before the referendum vote that they want a free trade deal with Britain if we leave. The German car industry is the most powerful lobby in Brussels. Angela Merkel also knows that she needs to keep German car industry sweet if she is to have any chance of being re-elected next year. I would say Britain is in a strong position despite the mutterings currently coming from Brussels. nonsense it's not just the German leader any of the 27 can veto the deal and I'm sure France will no car manufacturer in the world is more powerful than the EU if they were then they would be running the EU we can sugar coat it and no believe it how much we like but everyone knows in the end it will be the UK who concede not the eu It's not nonsense at all, what Germany says in the EU goes. Besides if the EU don't want to play ball with us then we can say ok we will leave the single market to keep control of our borders and we will do a trade deal through the World trade organisation rules. This will mean tariffs but tariffs are a 2 way thing, they put tariffs on our good we put tariffs on their goods. It will hurt them if they want to cut off their nose to spite their faces let them go ahead and do it. The eurozone is already in difficulty, will they really want to make it worse and then risk others leaving? I don't think so. Meanwhile outside of the EU other countries in the world are already queueing up to do trade deals with an independent Britain. Australia and New Zealand are in a race to be the first country to do a trade deal with us. Other countries all over the world have said they want trade deals with us. We should be looking globally, not just at the EU. Oz and NZ are tiny markets in comparison with the US, EU or China. On the USA Donald Trump said he wants a good trade deal with Britain if he becomes President later this year. Donald Trump? LOL A joke politician for these laughable time. Yeah. Good work
Forgive me if I don't take a blind bit of notice of your predictions Joe, you were so cock sure of yourself that Remain would win the referendum, guess what you were wrong. I think Donald Trump will beat Hillary Clinton and Trump will be the next President. Whether you think Trump is a joke or not is frankly irrelevant. If he is president then we will be dealing with him and he said he wants a trade deal with Britain. "He is a joke. Only the joke will be upon the world | |||
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"Now the EU has made it clear that if we want to remain in the Single Market we will have to accept free movement of people; should we stay in the single market, get the economic benefits, but keep immigration, or should we leave the single market, take the economic hit and limit immigration? If sense does not prevail and the EU insist on free movement of people then it must be leave. You might choose to think that way, no politician would push the economic self destruct button by doing it. 3,500,000 directly employed in businesses/industry that trade in the single market 2,500,000 indirectly employed in support sectors £227 billion in exports to EU Tax revenues directly from production approx £40 billion Indirect taxes from PAYE, NI, fuel and other duties estimated £30-£50 billion Yes - we will just fuck that off cos we dont want any more Polish and Spanish waiters." Michael Gove already said on his last appearance on the Andrew Marr show he wants Britain to come out of the single market. | |||
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"Im not aware that anyone knows what will happen. No talks have taken place. Only media speculation. What will the single market look like in 2 years. Will the people of Europe get a voice and what will they say. If we do well over the next 10 yrs how many will follow. Its all short term views at the moment . No talks have taken place, I agree with you there. Its “only media speculation” will I have to disagree with you there. In a statement from the Heads of State of 27 Member States (i.e. all members, apart from the UK) that was issued today it states: “In the future, we hope to have the UK as a close partner of the EU and we look forward to the UK stating its intentions in this respect. Any agreement, which will be concluded with the UK as third country, will have to be based on a balance of rights and obligations. Access to the Single Market requires acceptance of all four freedoms [Freedom of Labour, Capital, Services and Goods]."" . There can be NO negotiations until you invoke article 50 but we're just letting you know there will be NO negotiations on these four things!. . Ahh right, that's the negotiations sorted then!  | |||
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"Im not aware that anyone knows what will happen. No talks have taken place. Only media speculation. What will the single market look like in 2 years. Will the people of Europe get a voice and what will they say. If we do well over the next 10 yrs how many will follow. Its all short term views at the moment . No talks have taken place, I agree with you there. Its “only media speculation” will I have to disagree with you there. In a statement from the Heads of State of 27 Member States (i.e. all members, apart from the UK) that was issued today it states: “In the future, we hope to have the UK as a close partner of the EU and we look forward to the UK stating its intentions in this respect. Any agreement, which will be concluded with the UK as third country, will have to be based on a balance of rights and obligations. Access to the Single Market requires acceptance of all four freedoms [Freedom of Labour, Capital, Services and Goods].". There can be NO negotiations until you invoke article 50 but we're just letting you know there will be NO negotiations on these four things!. . Ahh right, that's the negotiations sorted then! "There is a lot more to negotiate than this. But they are just laying out a firm line. Something that they say is non-negotiable. Like how the UK says the sovereignty of the Falklands when talking with Argentina. | |||
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"Im not aware that anyone knows what will happen. No talks have taken place. Only media speculation. What will the single market look like in 2 years. Will the people of Europe get a voice and what will they say. If we do well over the next 10 yrs how many will follow. Its all short term views at the moment . No talks have taken place, I agree with you there. Its “only media speculation” will I have to disagree with you there. In a statement from the Heads of State of 27 Member States (i.e. all members, apart from the UK) that was issued today it states: “In the future, we hope to have the UK as a close partner of the EU and we look forward to the UK stating its intentions in this respect. Any agreement, which will be concluded with the UK as third country, will have to be based on a balance of rights and obligations. Access to the Single Market requires acceptance of all four freedoms [Freedom of Labour, Capital, Services and Goods].". There can be NO negotiations until you invoke article 50 but we're just letting you know there will be NO negotiations on these four things!. . Ahh right, that's the negotiations sorted then!
There is a lot more to negotiate than this. But they are just laying out a firm line. Something that they say is non-negotiable. Like how the UK says the sovereignty of the Falklands when talking with Argentina. ". We don't and never have talked to Argentina over the sovereignty of the falklands!. That aside, why announce now there non negotiable?.... You can only presume that's not aimed at the UK but at other descenters?.... That would also imply that the EU already knows that those policies are not unifiably liked amongst the other 27 members. | |||
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"The free movement of people in itself isn't the problem. It's the fact that they're prepared to live in squalor for a short period of time, accept lower wages and conditions, and send the majority of their money home to their own families. None of which the eu could or would do anything about bit which our own government could have done if they'd wanted. If our government absolutely insisted on a decent minimum wage which was properly and uniformly enforced, absolutely insisted that houses should be fit to live in, capped rents and limits to the numbers of people living in them, and limited the amount of money exiting the country (in cash) and made sure everyone was paying the right tax and NI, then who was doing the jobs wouldn't matter so much as everyone would have a fair shot. But that takes public servants to administer and enforce. And they're getting slashed to the bone, to be replaced by private companies looking to make a profit out of exactly the same jobs..... and the only way they can do that is to cut wages and conditions. So around in circles we go. But at least OUT of the EU, we can hold our government to account the without them blaming red tape and eu beurocracy which was rarely if ever there truth. Sigh " | |||
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"All negotiations have starting points. As has been said nothing has been discussed formally yet and where it end is anyone's guess. Its a waiting game. Personally I think controlled immigration is important and I also believe that many countries will be and are queuing up to do business with the UK. " Yep just like china did in 2014 and guess what no free trade there just up to 45% import tax put on motor vehicles we send there .. | |||
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"Im not aware that anyone knows what will happen. No talks have taken place. Only media speculation. What will the single market look like in 2 years. Will the people of Europe get a voice and what will they say. If we do well over the next 10 yrs how many will follow. Its all short term views at the moment . No talks have taken place, I agree with you there. Its “only media speculation” will I have to disagree with you there. In a statement from the Heads of State of 27 Member States (i.e. all members, apart from the UK) that was issued today it states: “In the future, we hope to have the UK as a close partner of the EU and we look forward to the UK stating its intentions in this respect. Any agreement, which will be concluded with the UK as third country, will have to be based on a balance of rights and obligations. Access to the Single Market requires acceptance of all four freedoms [Freedom of Labour, Capital, Services and Goods].". There can be NO negotiations until you invoke article 50 but we're just letting you know there will be NO negotiations on these four things!. . Ahh right, that's the negotiations sorted then!
There is a lot more to negotiate than this. But they are just laying out a firm line. Something that they say is non-negotiable. Like how the UK says the sovereignty of the Falklands when talking with Argentina. .
We don't and never have talked to Argentina over the sovereignty of the falklands!.
That aside, why announce now there non negotiable?.... You can only presume that's not aimed at the UK but at other descenters?.... That would also imply that the EU already knows that those policies are not unifiably liked amongst the other 27 members.
"Thats the point I'm making! The Falklands are a redline to us, as the 4 freedoms are to the EU. | |||
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"Im not aware that anyone knows what will happen. No talks have taken place. Only media speculation. What will the single market look like in 2 years. Will the people of Europe get a voice and what will they say. If we do well over the next 10 yrs how many will follow. Its all short term views at the moment . No talks have taken place, I agree with you there. Its “only media speculation” will I have to disagree with you there. In a statement from the Heads of State of 27 Member States (i.e. all members, apart from the UK) that was issued today it states: “In the future, we hope to have the UK as a close partner of the EU and we look forward to the UK stating its intentions in this respect. Any agreement, which will be concluded with the UK as third country, will have to be based on a balance of rights and obligations. Access to the Single Market requires acceptance of all four freedoms [Freedom of Labour, Capital, Services and Goods].". There can be NO negotiations until you invoke article 50 but we're just letting you know there will be NO negotiations on these four things!. . Ahh right, that's the negotiations sorted then!
There is a lot more to negotiate than this. But they are just laying out a firm line. Something that they say is non-negotiable. Like how the UK says the sovereignty of the Falklands when talking with Argentina. .
We don't and never have talked to Argentina over the sovereignty of the falklands!.
That aside, why announce now there non negotiable?.... You can only presume that's not aimed at the UK but at other descenters?.... That would also imply that the EU already knows that those policies are not unifiably liked amongst the other 27 members.
Thats the point I'm making! The Falklands are a redline to us, as the 4 freedoms are to the EU. "Whilst I voted in the issue of freedom is applied differently in different nations ..spain you have to have €6000 per person and medical health care ..so no free state benefits and only free health care if you work and pay in or are retired although Spain is an EU member . | |||
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" Whilst I voted in the issue of freedom is applied differently in different nations ..spain you have to have €6000 per person and medical health care ..so no free state benefits and only free health care if you work and pay in or are retired although Spain is an EU member ." But doesn't this show that countries AREN'T run by the EU? That individual countries can decide whats right for them? If that is the situation in Spain, its that way because the people of Spain want it that way. | |||
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" Whilst I voted in the issue of freedom is applied differently in different nations ..spain you have to have €6000 per person and medical health care ..so no free state benefits and only free health care if you work and pay in or are retired although Spain is an EU member . But doesn't this show that countries AREN'T run by the EU? That individual countries can decide whats right for them? If that is the situation in Spain, its that way because the people of Spain want it that way." Sure does you are more than welcome to double check what I tell you we are part of the EU here ..we now live here..seems to be plenty of different laws here to the UK .. | |||
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"Im not aware that anyone knows what will happen. No talks have taken place. Only media speculation. What will the single market look like in 2 years. Will the people of Europe get a voice and what will they say. If we do well over the next 10 yrs how many will follow. Its all short term views at the moment . No talks have taken place, I agree with you there. Its “only media speculation” will I have to disagree with you there. In a statement from the Heads of State of 27 Member States (i.e. all members, apart from the UK) that was issued today it states: “In the future, we hope to have the UK as a close partner of the EU and we look forward to the UK stating its intentions in this respect. Any agreement, which will be concluded with the UK as third country, will have to be based on a balance of rights and obligations. Access to the Single Market requires acceptance of all four freedoms [Freedom of Labour, Capital, Services and Goods].". There can be NO negotiations until you invoke article 50 but we're just letting you know there will be NO negotiations on these four things!. . Ahh right, that's the negotiations sorted then!
There is a lot more to negotiate than this. But they are just laying out a firm line. Something that they say is non-negotiable. Like how the UK says the sovereignty of the Falklands when talking with Argentina. .
We don't and never have talked to Argentina over the sovereignty of the falklands!.
That aside, why announce now there non negotiable?.... You can only presume that's not aimed at the UK but at other descenters?.... That would also imply that the EU already knows that those policies are not unifiably liked amongst the other 27 members.
Thats the point I'm making! The Falklands are a redline to us, as the 4 freedoms are to the EU. "....and Stephen Crabb said today if he becomes Prime Minister a red line of his will be to put restrictions on immigration from the EU as part of any future deal (and this guy was a Remainer). So it looks at the moment like a uk/eu deal will be deadlocked. Once negotiations start though each side will have to compromise. | |||
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" Whilst I voted in the issue of freedom is applied differently in different nations ..spain you have to have €6000 per person and medical health care ..so no free state benefits and only free health care if you work and pay in or are retired although Spain is an EU member . But doesn't this show that countries AREN'T run by the EU? That individual countries can decide whats right for them? If that is the situation in Spain, its that way because the people of Spain want it that way." So the 4 freedoms are: The free movement of labour - you can apply for and take up a position anywhere in the EU, you dont have to apply for any visas, or pass government tests etc. The free movement of goods - you can buy a TV in France and take it home to the UK without paying any additional taxes or duties. Or of course it could also be 1,000 tons of steel or wherever else you fancy, apart from where there are national laws, like you can't buy a hand gun from the EU and bring it back to the UK. The free movement of capital - if you have £5m in the bank and want to move to greece and set up a hotel, that's fine, you can move your money without government interference. The free movement of services - This is mainly financial services, so a Spanish fishing vessel can be insured by a British insurance company, or of course the opposite. So they are the freedoms that we are talking about. Not free healthcare everywhere etc. | |||
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"Im not aware that anyone knows what will happen. No talks have taken place. Only media speculation. What will the single market look like in 2 years. Will the people of Europe get a voice and what will they say. If we do well over the next 10 yrs how many will follow. Its all short term views at the moment . No talks have taken place, I agree with you there. Its “only media speculation” will I have to disagree with you there. In a statement from the Heads of State of 27 Member States (i.e. all members, apart from the UK) that was issued today it states: “In the future, we hope to have the UK as a close partner of the EU and we look forward to the UK stating its intentions in this respect. Any agreement, which will be concluded with the UK as third country, will have to be based on a balance of rights and obligations. Access to the Single Market requires acceptance of all four freedoms [Freedom of Labour, Capital, Services and Goods].". There can be NO negotiations until you invoke article 50 but we're just letting you know there will be NO negotiations on these four things!. . Ahh right, that's the negotiations sorted then!
There is a lot more to negotiate than this. But they are just laying out a firm line. Something that they say is non-negotiable. Like how the UK says the sovereignty of the Falklands when talking with Argentina. .
We don't and never have talked to Argentina over the sovereignty of the falklands!.
That aside, why announce now there non negotiable?.... You can only presume that's not aimed at the UK but at other descenters?.... That would also imply that the EU already knows that those policies are not unifiably liked amongst the other 27 members.
Thats the point I'm making! The Falklands are a redline to us, as the 4 freedoms are to the EU.
....and Stephen Crabb said today if he becomes Prime Minister a red line of his will be to put restrictions on immigration from the EU as part of any future deal (and this guy was a Remainer). So it looks at the moment like a uk/eu deal will be deadlocked. Once negotiations start though each side will have to compromise. "Or if neither side comprises, then no deal is struck. | |||
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"Im not aware that anyone knows what will happen. No talks have taken place. Only media speculation. What will the single market look like in 2 years. Will the people of Europe get a voice and what will they say. If we do well over the next 10 yrs how many will follow. Its all short term views at the moment . No talks have taken place, I agree with you there. Its “only media speculation” will I have to disagree with you there. In a statement from the Heads of State of 27 Member States (i.e. all members, apart from the UK) that was issued today it states: “In the future, we hope to have the UK as a close partner of the EU and we look forward to the UK stating its intentions in this respect. Any agreement, which will be concluded with the UK as third country, will have to be based on a balance of rights and obligations. Access to the Single Market requires acceptance of all four freedoms [Freedom of Labour, Capital, Services and Goods].". There can be NO negotiations until you invoke article 50 but we're just letting you know there will be NO negotiations on these four things!. . Ahh right, that's the negotiations sorted then!
There is a lot more to negotiate than this. But they are just laying out a firm line. Something that they say is non-negotiable. Like how the UK says the sovereignty of the Falklands when talking with Argentina. .
We don't and never have talked to Argentina over the sovereignty of the falklands!.
That aside, why announce now there non negotiable?.... You can only presume that's not aimed at the UK but at other descenters?.... That would also imply that the EU already knows that those policies are not unifiably liked amongst the other 27 members.
Thats the point I'm making! The Falklands are a redline to us, as the 4 freedoms are to the EU.
....and Stephen Crabb said today if he becomes Prime Minister a red line of his will be to put restrictions on immigration from the EU as part of any future deal (and this guy was a Remainer). So it looks at the moment like a uk/eu deal will be deadlocked. Once negotiations start though each side will have to compromise.
Or if neither side comprises, then no deal is struck. "Well according to the deputy PM of Finland in an interview on Sky news just, the EU would be stupid not to compromise  . He sounded like a voice of reason and I'm sure there are more like him in the EU once you cut through the crap in Brussels | |||
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" Well according to the deputy PM of Finland in an interview on Sky news just, the EU would be stupid not to compromise . He sounded like a voice of reason and I'm sure there are more like him in the EU once you cut through the crap in Brussels"The DEPUTY PM of Finland said that? On the same day the President of Finland signed a declaration stating "Access to the Single Market requires acceptance of all four freedoms"? | |||
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"Im not aware that anyone knows what will happen. No talks have taken place. Only media speculation. What will the single market look like in 2 years. Will the people of Europe get a voice and what will they say. If we do well over the next 10 yrs how many will follow. Its all short term views at the moment . No talks have taken place, I agree with you there. Its “only media speculation” will I have to disagree with you there. In a statement from the Heads of State of 27 Member States (i.e. all members, apart from the UK) that was issued today it states: “In the future, we hope to have the UK as a close partner of the EU and we look forward to the UK stating its intentions in this respect. Any agreement, which will be concluded with the UK as third country, will have to be based on a balance of rights and obligations. Access to the Single Market requires acceptance of all four freedoms [Freedom of Labour, Capital, Services and Goods].". There can be NO negotiations until you invoke article 50 but we're just letting you know there will be NO negotiations on these four things!. . Ahh right, that's the negotiations sorted then!
There is a lot more to negotiate than this. But they are just laying out a firm line. Something that they say is non-negotiable. Like how the UK says the sovereignty of the Falklands when talking with Argentina. .
We don't and never have talked to Argentina over the sovereignty of the falklands!.
That aside, why announce now there non negotiable?.... You can only presume that's not aimed at the UK but at other descenters?.... That would also imply that the EU already knows that those policies are not unifiably liked amongst the other 27 members.
Thats the point I'm making! The Falklands are a redline to us, as the 4 freedoms are to the EU.
....and Stephen Crabb said today if he becomes Prime Minister a red line of his will be to put restrictions on immigration from the EU as part of any future deal (and this guy was a Remainer). So it looks at the moment like a uk/eu deal will be deadlocked. Once negotiations start though each side will have to compromise.
Or if neither side comprises, then no deal is struck. "If that happens then we can apply for a trade deal with the EU through the world trade organisation. | |||
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" Well according to the deputy PM of Finland in an interview on Sky news just, the EU would be stupid not to compromise . He sounded like a voice of reason and I'm sure there are more like him in the EU once you cut through the crap in Brussels
The DEPUTY PM of Finland said that? On the same day the President of Finland signed a declaration stating "Access to the Single Market requires acceptance of all four freedoms"? "Yep. Not worth the papr its written on | |||
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" Or if neither side comprises, then no deal is struck. Well according to the deputy PM of Finland in an interview on Sky news just, the EU would be stupid not to compromise . He sounded like a voice of reason and I'm sure there are more like him in the EU once you cut through the crap in Brussels"The UK has just pulled out of one of the biggest projects in history. I don't think they are about to see one island nation call the shots and tell them what to do and come off best. I think they would rather see us fall than prosper. If we prosper outside of the EU more will follow as we will be setting the bar as to what they can achieve. It is in their interest to make it as difficult as possible. If we pull out we will revert to nil. We will have to build out economy back up from economic collapse on financial institutions where investment bankers will be poached off to Frankfurt or New York or Paris. They do not want us to come out looking shiny white and make all what they have and are working toward look worthless. | |||
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people like to quote the german motor industry.... let me quote the german chancellor from yesterday...
"the uk will not be able to cherry-pick the parts of the EU they like without accepting the others...."
it makes me laugh that the solution people have for running away from europe is to run into the arms of the commonwealth... when every high powered commonwealth nation said "don't leave!!!"
Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, India and Pakistan!
oh and that trump "we will do a great deal"... in terms of what he can now get from the UK, he can do a brilliant deal... for the US!!!!!!
three words spring to mind...bend, you, over!!!! | |||
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" Well according to the deputy PM of Finland in an interview on Sky news just, the EU would be stupid not to compromise . He sounded like a voice of reason and I'm sure there are more like him in the EU once you cut through the crap in Brussels
The DEPUTY PM of Finland said that? On the same day the President of Finland signed a declaration stating "Access to the Single Market requires acceptance of all four freedoms"?
Yep. Not worth the papr its written on"Yeah? So every Head of State of 27 countries are going to break their word? | |||
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"Of course the above assumes that no compromises are made.... Is a cap on immigration likely...a yearly limit of some sort...is David Cameron's welfare reform suggestion a deterrent enough..? Is EU immigration that much of an issue that we risk not having access to the single market ..?" Is a cap on immigration likely? No, 27 Heads of State have just told us that not going to happen. Is EU immigration so bad that we should risk leaving the Single Market? Well that was my original question, but so far I think everyone has said that we can be in the single market AND not have to accept free movement of labour. Which as I have just said above, 27 Heads of State have just told us will never happen. | |||
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" it makes me laugh that the solution people have for running away from europe is to run into the arms of the commonwealth... when every high powered commonwealth nation said "don't leave!!!" Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, India and Pakistan! " Australia and New Zealand are already clamouring for a trade deal with us now we have voted leave. Just reading in the newspaper South Korea have said they want a trade deal with the UK now. Some African countries said they wanted trade deals with us within hours of the referendum vote result being declared. We've not even triggered article 50 yet and already a long list of countries lining up for a trade deal with us. On your other point about Donald Trump, I get the impression he's not a fan of the EU, if that is the case he may decide to give the UK a good trade deal as a way of getting one over on the EU if he becomes President. | |||
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"There is an assumption that no other countries will have a vote in the near future which could weaken the EU further. I would like to see the demise of the EU and the creation of a free trade area.Which could be expanded greatly I don’t think that any other country will have a in/out referendum before we have fully concluded our negotiations. We are the guinea pig. The demise of the EU would cause a massive world wide recession. Why would you want that?" the exact opposite would happen, the eu has the lowest growth in the world and without our figures it would be even worse. | |||
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" However, if we reject that option, we can evidently negotiate deals with individual European countries via WTO protocols... Which is the better option, economically speaking...and why..? Seems odd that the WTO option isn't being spoken about much in the media - who are pretty much just lamenting over the fact the single market option may not be available to us..." the WTO option is the one of last resort... lets basically call it the default position of which trade will need to be done at unless "something" happens... for example... everything imported or exported would have a tariff placed on it.... 10% on Cars.... 14% on clothes..... 36% on dairy produce..... okay if you are rich.... because they will just swallow the price increase.... not so okay if you are poor.... because everything then goes up in price.... | |||
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" the exact opposite would happen, the eu has the lowest growth in the world and without our figures it would be even worse. " that "eu growth thing" is always quoted... but actually misleading.. because it doesn't take into account the starting points for each of the countries/regions..... | |||
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" However, if we reject that option, we can evidently negotiate deals with individual European countries via WTO protocols... Which is the better option, economically speaking...and why..? Seems odd that the WTO option isn't being spoken about much in the media - who are pretty much just lamenting over the fact the single market option may not be available to us... the WTO option is the one of last resort... lets basically call it the default position of which trade will need to be done at unless "something" happens... for example... everything imported or exported would have a tariff placed on it.... 10% on Cars.... 14% on clothes..... 36% on dairy produce..... okay if you are rich.... because they will just swallow the price increase.... not so okay if you are poor.... because everything then goes up in price...." Yes but we can do free trade deals with other countries all around the rest of the world and some countries have already said they want that. I expect more to follow. So people can buy cheap goods from other non EU countries instead. | |||
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"Thoughts.... Currently - although informal or formal negotiations are taking place - allegedly .... The offer from the EU is such that if we wish to have access to the single market - we have to abide by their rules I.e. Free movement of labour etc So of course that's an option some may consider However, if we reject that option, we can evidently negotiate deals with individual European countries via WTO protocols... Which is the better option, economically speaking...and why..? Seems odd that the WTO option isn't being spoken about much in the media - who are pretty much just lamenting over the fact the single market option may not be available to us..." I dont think we could do deals with individual countries in the eu but we can sell stuff subject to the WTO standard tariffs and will import with the same, as we import a lot more than we export to the eu we will gain more than we lose and of course if the pound stays lower that will help our exporters, we just need to stay cool and play the long game, both france and germany have elections next year and their leaders wont want to see their companies losing trade to us | |||
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"There is an assumption that no other countries will have a vote in the near future which could weaken the EU further. I would like to see the demise of the EU and the creation of a free trade area.Which could be expanded greatly I don’t think that any other country will have a in/out referendum before we have fully concluded our negotiations. We are the guinea pig. The demise of the EU would cause a massive world wide recession. Why would you want that? the exact opposite would happen, the eu has the lowest growth in the world and without our figures it would be even worse. " Plus the EU cannot boast "we have a market of 500 million people" anymore. They now have a market of 435 million people which doesn't have the same ring to it. | |||
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" it makes me laugh that the solution people have for running away from europe is to run into the arms of the commonwealth... when every high powered commonwealth nation said "don't leave!!!" Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, India and Pakistan! Australia and New Zealand are already clamouring for a trade deal with us now we have voted leave. Just reading in the newspaper South Korea have said they want a trade deal with the UK now. Some African countries said they wanted trade deals with us within hours of the referendum vote result being declared. We've not even triggered article 50 yet and already a long list of countries lining up for a trade deal with us. On your other point about Donald Trump, I get the impression he's not a fan of the EU, if that is the case he may decide to give the UK a good trade deal as a way of getting one over on the EU if he becomes President. " As we already trade with most of the above countries .and as trade deals take decades and aren't always favorable to the UK .early days for positivity in hot air .. | |||
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"There is an assumption that no other countries will have a vote in the near future which could weaken the EU further. I would like to see the demise of the EU and the creation of a free trade area.Which could be expanded greatly I don’t think that any other country will have a in/out referendum before we have fully concluded our negotiations. We are the guinea pig. The demise of the EU would cause a massive world wide recession. Why would you want that? the exact opposite would happen, the eu has the lowest growth in the world and without our figures it would be even worse. Plus the EU cannot boast "we have a market of 500 million people" anymore. They now have a market of 435 million people which doesn't have the same ring to it. "Job sorted turkey joins then they can | |||
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"There is an assumption that no other countries will have a vote in the near future which could weaken the EU further. I would like to see the demise of the EU and the creation of a free trade area.Which could be expanded greatly I don’t think that any other country will have a in/out referendum before we have fully concluded our negotiations. We are the guinea pig. The demise of the EU would cause a massive world wide recession. Why would you want that? the exact opposite would happen, the eu has the lowest growth in the world and without our figures it would be even worse. Plus the EU cannot boast "we have a market of 500 million people" anymore. They now have a market of 435 million people which doesn't have the same ring to it.
Job sorted turkey joins then they can "You swore blind before the referendum Turkey would never join the EU? | |||
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" it makes me laugh that the solution people have for running away from europe is to run into the arms of the commonwealth... when every high powered commonwealth nation said "don't leave!!!" Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, India and Pakistan! Australia and New Zealand are already clamouring for a trade deal with us now we have voted leave. Just reading in the newspaper South Korea have said they want a trade deal with the UK now. Some African countries said they wanted trade deals with us within hours of the referendum vote result being declared. We've not even triggered article 50 yet and already a long list of countries lining up for a trade deal with us. On your other point about Donald Trump, I get the impression he's not a fan of the EU, if that is the case he may decide to give the UK a good trade deal as a way of getting one over on the EU if he becomes President. As we already trade with most of the above countries .and as trade deals take decades and aren't always favorable to the UK .early days for positivity in hot air .. " Trade deals take decades with the EU because you have to get agreement now from 27 member countries and that is inefficient. UK on its own will be able to do trade deals much quicker with other countries outside of the EU on a 1 to 1 basis. | |||
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" it makes me laugh that the solution people have for running away from europe is to run into the arms of the commonwealth... when every high powered commonwealth nation said "don't leave!!!" Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, India and Pakistan! Australia and New Zealand are already clamouring for a trade deal with us now we have voted leave. Just reading in the newspaper South Korea have said they want a trade deal with the UK now. Some African countries said they wanted trade deals with us within hours of the referendum vote result being declared. We've not even triggered article 50 yet and already a long list of countries lining up for a trade deal with us. On your other point about Donald Trump, I get the impression he's not a fan of the EU, if that is the case he may decide to give the UK a good trade deal as a way of getting one over on the EU if he becomes President. " We trade with these countries already right... ? Quantitatively, how much better can the deals be for since we're out of the EU..? | |||
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" it makes me laugh that the solution people have for running away from europe is to run into the arms of the commonwealth... when every high powered commonwealth nation said "don't leave!!!" Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, India and Pakistan! Australia and New Zealand are already clamouring for a trade deal with us now we have voted leave. Just reading in the newspaper South Korea have said they want a trade deal with the UK now. Some African countries said they wanted trade deals with us within hours of the referendum vote result being declared. We've not even triggered article 50 yet and already a long list of countries lining up for a trade deal with us. On your other point about Donald Trump, I get the impression he's not a fan of the EU, if that is the case he may decide to give the UK a good trade deal as a way of getting one over on the EU if he becomes President. As we already trade with most of the above countries .and as trade deals take decades and aren't always favorable to the UK .early days for positivity in hot air .. Trade deals take decades with the EU because you have to get agreement now from 27 member countries and that is inefficient. UK on its own will be able to do trade deals much quicker with other countries outside of the EU on a 1 to 1 basis. " But with who as we trade with most major nations .. | |||
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"Thoughts.... Currently - although informal or formal negotiations are taking place - allegedly .... The offer from the EU is such that if we wish to have access to the single market - we have to abide by their rules I.e. Free movement of labour etc So of course that's an option some may consider However, if we reject that option, we can evidently negotiate deals with individual European countries via WTO protocols... Which is the better option, economically speaking...and why..? Seems odd that the WTO option isn't being spoken about much in the media - who are pretty much just lamenting over the fact the single market option may not be available to us... I dont think we could do deals with individual countries in the eu but we can sell stuff subject to the WTO standard tariffs and will import with the same, as we import a lot more than we export to the eu we will gain more than we lose and of course if the pound stays lower that will help our exporters, we just need to stay cool and play the long game, both france and germany have elections next year and their leaders wont want to see their companies losing trade to us " how is that possible buying more than you sell is the same as spending more than you earn ...so how is that good for the UK? | |||
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" I dont think we could do deals with individual countries in the eu but we can sell stuff subject to the WTO standard tariffs and will import with the same, as we import a lot more than we export to the eu we will gain more than we lose and of course if the pound stays lower that will help our exporters, we just need to stay cool and play the long game, both france and germany have elections next year and their leaders wont want to see their companies losing trade to us " love the "its all about our strength stuff" loving the nievity.... doesn't work that way!!!
since we import a lot more... it means prices will go up.....plus the pound being in effect worth less than it was means that actually you are getting less for your money, on top of less for your money because of tariffs...
and its not the government paying those lovely tarriffs... its business which will basically pass those costs down to us....
if you want a real world example... lets talk about getting a lovely brand spanking new harley davidson bike....
now... because they are make in the states... they have a tariff places on them.... and then because the pound/dollar exchange rate fell 10%.... your pound in your pocket... isn't worth as much... so the price for that bike in pounds went up....
yey.... double whammy....
so let me use another example.... your holiday to europe....
air fuel.... unfortunately for you... fuel is priced in dollars.... and remember that exchange rate thing
(this will mean in the next few months as an aside... petrol and diesel prices will start rising again to compensate....)
so now you are abroad... remember the exchange rate thing again.... the price on your holiday and accomodation went up... and everything you buy on holiday went up as well.......
but on the plus side.. coming on holiday from overseas to britain became cheaper because they get better value for there money because the pound became weaker.. yey for them!!!!! | |||
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" However, if we reject that option, we can evidently negotiate deals with individual European countries via WTO protocols... Which is the better option, economically speaking...and why..? Seems odd that the WTO option isn't being spoken about much in the media - who are pretty much just lamenting over the fact the single market option may not be available to us... the WTO option is the one of last resort... lets basically call it the default position of which trade will need to be done at unless "something" happens... for example... everything imported or exported would have a tariff placed on it.... 10% on Cars.... 14% on clothes..... 36% on dairy produce..... okay if you are rich.... because they will just swallow the price increase.... not so okay if you are poor.... because everything then goes up in price.... Yes but we can do free trade deals with other countries all around the rest of the world and some countries have already said they want that. I expect more to follow. So people can buy cheap goods from other non EU countries instead. " No you can do trade deals, not free trade deals. If we do a WTO deal with the EU, whichever is our highest tariff elsewhere, has to be the tariff used in the WTO deal. So for example if we want to protect our British lamb farmers from cheap NZ lamb and we stick a 40% tariff on NZ lamb, we would suddenly have a 40% tariff on EU lamb too. As a country we haven't had to make trade deals since the 70s, the EU has negotiated them on our behalf, we no longer really have the skills to do it. The deal with the EU is going to be the most important and take at least two years, it is going to take thousands of civil servants to negotiate. If we are then also making bilateral agreements with NZ, Aus, US, Ghana, South Africa etc. etc. we are soon going to run out of qualified and experienced senior civil servants to do the negotiations. | |||
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"both france and germany have elections next year and their leaders wont want to see their companies losing trade to us " The biggest threat to the French and German economies is contagion. That other countries start to leave the EU. If they give us better terms OUTSIDE the EU than we got INSIDE the EU (as some have said we will get) then why would any country stay? France and Germany and the other EU countries known that the worst thing they could do at this time, is to give us a really good deal. | |||
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"Now the EU has made it clear that if we want to remain in the Single Market we will have to accept free movement of people; should we stay in the single market, get the economic benefits, but keep immigration, or should we leave the single market, take the economic hit and limit immigration?" Leave and negotiate new deals with international countries. It's more important than ever to stick to our guns x | |||
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"Now the EU has made it clear that if we want to remain in the Single Market we will have to accept free movement of people; should we stay in the single market, get the economic benefits, but keep immigration, or should we leave the single market, take the economic hit and limit immigration? Leave and negotiate new deals with international countries. It's more important than ever to stick to our guns x" Yea lets just flush approx 50% Of our export market down the pan shall we ..and with the EU savings we can employ thousands of civil servants to negotiate all the deals required with smaller markets to make up the numbers ..oh hang about when the world finds out what a xenophobic nation we are who is prepared to flush agreements down the pan who the hell would want to deal with us that is worth dealing with | |||
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"Now the EU has made it clear that if we want to remain in the Single Market we will have to accept free movement of people; should we stay in the single market, get the economic benefits, but keep immigration, or should we leave the single market, take the economic hit and limit immigration? Leave and negotiate new deals with international countries. It's more important than ever to stick to our guns x Yea lets just flush approx 50% Of our export market down the pan shall we ..and with the EU savings we can employ thousands of civil servants to negotiate all the deals required with smaller markets to make up the numbers ..oh hang about when the world finds out what a xenophobic nation we are who is prepared to flush agreements down the pan who the hell would want to deal with us that is worth dealing with" Project Fear... Now becomes Project How Dare You I dare you | |||
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"There is an assumption that no other countries will have a vote in the near future which could weaken the EU further. I would like to see the demise of the EU and the creation of a free trade area.Which could be expanded greatly I don’t think that any other country will have a in/out referendum before we have fully concluded our negotiations. We are the guinea pig. The demise of the EU would cause a massive world wide recession. Why would you want that?" Because the EU is the boogeyman for these people. They don't care how much harm they do, how many people, either here or anywhere else, they throw on the scrap head of recession. They'll tell any lie, threaten and deride any institution or person and take any risk just as long as they get to spread their message of hate, division and disharmony as far as possible. They hate the EU because it stands for unity, harmony and common trust, the total opposite of what they believe in. | |||
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"There is an assumption that no other countries will have a vote in the near future which could weaken the EU further. I would like to see the demise of the EU and the creation of a free trade area.Which could be expanded greatly I don’t think that any other country will have a in/out referendum before we have fully concluded our negotiations. We are the guinea pig. The demise of the EU would cause a massive world wide recession. Why would you want that? Because the EU is the boogeyman for these people. They don't care how much harm they do, how many people, either here or anywhere else, they throw on the scrap head of recession. They'll tell any lie, threaten and deride any institution or person and take any risk just as long as they get to spread their message of hate, division and disharmony as far as possible. They hate the EU because it stands for unity, harmony and common trust, the total opposite of what they believe in." You're funny  | |||
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"There is an assumption that no other countries will have a vote in the near future which could weaken the EU further. I would like to see the demise of the EU and the creation of a free trade area.Which could be expanded greatly I don’t think that any other country will have a in/out referendum before we have fully concluded our negotiations. We are the guinea pig. The demise of the EU would cause a massive world wide recession. Why would you want that? Because the EU is the boogeyman for these people. They don't care how much harm they do, how many people, either here or anywhere else, they throw on the scrap head of recession. They'll tell any lie, threaten and deride any institution or person and take any risk just as long as they get to spread their message of hate, division and disharmony as far as possible. They hate the EU because it stands for unity, harmony and common trust, the total opposite of what they believe in." No we don't hate. We love our country and those who love our country regardless of colour or religion. We want what we believe to be in the best interests of our country as a whole. We stick to our principles. We won't be cowed by accusations of bigotry,xenophopia or racism. We believe in democracy. | |||
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"I love reading all the negative comments from people with no ambition who will never amount to anything. It's funny." so tell me.... which person/people are you talking about... because the wto figures and the way they are enacted are actually factually correct.... like i said time and time again... and i love a sporting analogy... "hope" is not a strategy.... so rather than giving us soundbites and platitudes.. how about writing something real and factual..
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"Now the EU has made it clear that if we want to remain in the Single Market we will have to accept free movement of people; should we stay in the single market, get the economic benefits, but keep immigration, or should we leave the single market, take the economic hit and limit immigration? That would be cataclysmic and pre-empt a recession at least twice as bad as what we have just come through. It really frustrates me tbh. Remember all the bravado comments on here and elsewhere... "Do you think the Germans will want tariffs on the BMW's that they sell to us?" "Stuff em... They need us more than we need them." "They export much more to us, than we do to them. They cant afford not to let us have free trade access on ourv terms" Heres what the German car industry thinks http://www.dailyreleased.com/business/eu-referendum-german-car-makers-warn-on-free-movement/ Best re think your ideas !!! Well I guess it comes down to who you believe then, the heads of state of 27 countries, or a bunch of car makers in one country. The German CBI said just before the referendum vote that they want a free trade deal with Britain if we leave. The German car industry is the most powerful lobby in Brussels. Angela Merkel also knows that she needs to keep German car industry sweet if she is to have any chance of being re-elected next year. I would say Britain is in a strong position despite the mutterings currently coming from Brussels. nonsense it's not just the German leader any of the 27 can veto the deal and I'm sure France will no car manufacturer in the world is more powerful than the EU if they were then they would be running the EU we can sugar coat it and no believe it how much we like but everyone knows in the end it will be the UK who concede not the eu It's not nonsense at all, what Germany says in the EU goes. Besides if the EU don't want to play ball with us then we can say ok we will leave the single market to keep control of our borders and we will do a trade deal through the World trade organisation rules. This will mean tariffs but tariffs are a 2 way thing, they put tariffs on our good we put tariffs on their goods. It will hurt them if they want to cut off their nose to spite their faces let them go ahead and do it. The eurozone is already in difficulty, will they really want to make it worse and then risk others leaving? I don't think so. Meanwhile outside of the EU other countries in the world are already queueing up to do trade deals with an independent Britain. Australia and New Zealand are in a race to be the first country to do a trade deal with us. Other countries all over the world have said they want trade deals with us. We should be looking globally, not just at the EU. " F...ing brilliant. We give up free and unrestricted access to 500,000,000 people who live right next door to us in exchange for a restricted free trade deal with 30,000,000. That'll solve all are problems then. Bloody BREXIT nutters  | |||
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"I love reading all the negative comments from people with no ambition who will never amount to anything. It's funny. so tell me.... which person/people are you talking about... because the wto figures and the way they are enacted are actually factually correct.... like i said time and time again... and i love a sporting analogy... "hope" is not a strategy.... so rather than giving us soundbites and platitudes.. how about writing something real and factual..
"You're funny too. | |||
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" No we don't hate. We love our country and those who love our country regardless of colour or religion. We want what we believe to be in the best interests of our country as a whole. We stick to our principles. We won't be cowed by accusations of bigotry,xenophopia or racism. We believe in democracy. " and so do i... I don't need a rerun, what is done is done, and now we have to cleanup the mess because its in all our best interests now... can i ask you a question? what is your vision for "leave day +1"? what did you want out of your leave vote? | |||
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"I love reading all the negative comments from people with no ambition who will never amount to anything. It's funny." Yeah, like Stephen Hawking, he hasn't come up with any theories on general relativity in Ages! I doubt he'll ever amount to much. That Obama fella, I doubt he is going to win anymore Presidential elections, Loser! Richard Branson, I mean is private space program is pretty pants isn't it. I think his problem is that he's just not ambitious enough. I bet he's still a virgin too! | |||
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"Now the EU has made it clear that if we want to remain in the Single Market we will have to accept free movement of people; should we stay in the single market, get the economic benefits, but keep immigration, or should we leave the single market, take the economic hit and limit immigration? We are not lap dogs . we will not be dictated to . we WILL be the dictators . get a bloody grip and stand up for yourselves, you sound like the EU is still pulling your strings. Honestly, some Brits really piss me off, no back bone at all." Maybe in the sort of Britain you want to live in being a dictator is a good thing but to most true Brits it's what we thought a war to stop and we don't want your sort of Britain thanks. | |||
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"Now the EU has made it clear that if we want to remain in the Single Market we will have to accept free movement of people; should we stay in the single market, get the economic benefits, but keep immigration, or should we leave the single market, take the economic hit and limit immigration? Leave and negotiate new deals with international countries. It's more important than ever to stick to our guns x Yea lets just flush approx 50% Of our export market down the pan shall we ..and with the EU savings we can employ thousands of civil servants to negotiate all the deals required with smaller markets to make up the numbers ..oh hang about when the world finds out what a xenophobic nation we are who is prepared to flush agreements down the pan who the hell would want to deal with us that is worth dealing with Project Fear... Now becomes Project How Dare You I dare you "Project fear was the Leave campaign. Fear migrants, they'll take your jobs. Fear the EU, its undemocratic. Fear the EU is crippling the economy and holding us back. Fear the EU, its taking money we could spend on the NHS. | |||
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" No we don't hate. We love our country and those who love our country regardless of colour or religion. We want what we believe to be in the best interests of our country as a whole. We stick to our principles. We won't be cowed by accusations of bigotry,xenophopia or racism. We believe in democracy. and so do i... I don't need a rerun, what is done is done, and now we have to cleanup the mess because its in all our best interests now... can i ask you a question? what is your vision for "leave day +1"? what did you want out of your leave vote?" I want control to reside in our elected government. If they put something in a manifesto we can hold them to account. No more pushing the blame to others. In fairness though we are part of a union that doesn't have our ,or indeed other nations, best interests at heart. Trade agreements are one thing, political union is very different. Just because we hold what we perceive as our own interests at heart doesn't make us xenophobic,racist or bigoted. | |||
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" the exact opposite would happen, the eu has the lowest growth in the world and without our figures it would be even worse. that "eu growth thing" is always quoted... but actually misleading.. because it doesn't take into account the starting points for each of the countries/regions....." It's doubly misleading given that UK growth has been fairly middle of the road for the EU over the last few years. Our position in real growth terms has been 2015-13th, 2014-10th, 2013-6th, 2012-7th, 2011-12th, 2010-17th, 2009-10th, 2008 -21st | |||
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"I love reading all the negative comments from people with no ambition who will never amount to anything. It's funny. Yeah, like Stephen Hawking, he hasn't come up with any theories on general relativity in Ages! I doubt he'll ever amount to much. That Obama fella, I doubt he is going to win anymore Presidential elections, Loser! Richard Branson, I mean is private space program is pretty pants isn't it. I think his problem is that he's just not ambitious enough. I bet he's still a virgin too! " I didn't know those 3 were on fab  | |||
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"I love reading all the negative comments from people with no ambition who will never amount to anything. It's funny. Yeah, like Stephen Hawking, he hasn't come up with any theories on general relativity in Ages! I doubt he'll ever amount to much. That Obama fella, I doubt he is going to win anymore Presidential elections, Loser! Richard Branson, I mean is private space program is pretty pants isn't it. I think his problem is that he's just not ambitious enough. I bet he's still a virgin too! I didn't know those 3 were on fab "I didn't realise you knew everyone on Fab, or what they do, or what ambitions they have. Do me, what do I do? What do I hope to do in the future? | |||
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"I love reading all the negative comments from people with no ambition who will never amount to anything. It's funny. Yeah, like Stephen Hawking, he hasn't come up with any theories on general relativity in Ages! I doubt he'll ever amount to much. That Obama fella, I doubt he is going to win anymore Presidential elections, Loser! Richard Branson, I mean is private space program is pretty pants isn't it. I think his problem is that he's just not ambitious enough. I bet he's still a virgin too! I didn't know those 3 were on fab
I didn't realise you knew everyone on Fab, or what they do, or what ambitions they have.
Do me, what do I do? What do I hope to do in the future? "I didn't realise I knew everyone on fab either. What I do know is there are so many negative people on here who are funny. You're funny too. | |||
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" Or if neither side comprises, then no deal is struck. Well according to the deputy PM of Finland in an interview on Sky news just, the EU would be stupid not to compromise . He sounded like a voice of reason and I'm sure there are more like him in the EU once you cut through the crap in Brussels
The UK has just pulled out of one of the biggest projects in history. I don't think they are about to see one island nation call the shots and tell them what to do and come off best. I think they would rather see us fall than prosper.
If we prosper outside of the EU more will follow as we will be setting the bar as to what they can achieve. It is in their interest to make it as difficult as possible.
If we pull out we will revert to nil. We will have to build out economy back up from economic collapse on financial institutions where investment bankers will be poached off to Frankfurt or New York or Paris.
They do not want us to come out looking shiny white and make all what they have and are working toward look worthless. "It seems that project fear is still working for the Remainers. The UK has just pulled out of a failing project. It is not about who comes off best, it is what is best for both. If they see us fall and not prosper they will already have fallen. The European banks especially the Italian ones are likely to collapse at any time and any punitive measures against the UK will only hasten that. It will do them no good to be vindictive and punitive to deter other countries from leaving because it is not the countries per se that want to leave but a lot of the people in those countries and any signs of bullying or threats by the establishment will simply see a further rise in anti EU sentiment. Have the Remainers learned nothing from the UK referendum? At the end of the day business is business and their outdated ideologies/rules will count for nothing. Fear not | |||
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"There is an assumption that no other countries will have a vote in the near future which could weaken the EU further. I would like to see the demise of the EU and the creation of a free trade area.Which could be expanded greatly I don’t think that any other country will have a in/out referendum before we have fully concluded our negotiations. We are the guinea pig. The demise of the EU would cause a massive world wide recession. Why would you want that? Because the EU is the boogeyman for these people. They don't care how much harm they do, how many people, either here or anywhere else, they throw on the scrap head of recession. They'll tell any lie, threaten and deride any institution or person and take any risk just as long as they get to spread their message of hate, division and disharmony as far as possible. They hate the EU because it stands for unity, harmony and common trust, the total opposite of what they believe in." absolute bollocks | |||
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"Im not aware that anyone knows what will happen. No talks have taken place. Only media speculation. What will the single market look like in 2 years. Will the people of Europe get a voice and what will they say. If we do well over the next 10 yrs how many will follow. Its all short term views at the moment . No talks have taken place, I agree with you there. Its “only media speculation” will I have to disagree with you there. In a statement from the Heads of State of 27 Member States (i.e. all members, apart from the UK) that was issued today it states: “In the future, we hope to have the UK as a close partner of the EU and we look forward to the UK stating its intentions in this respect. Any agreement, which will be concluded with the UK as third country, will have to be based on a balance of rights and obligations. Access to the Single Market requires acceptance of all four freedoms [Freedom of Labour, Capital, Services and Goods]."" It won't BE a single market for much longer, as the UK is just the first of the group to leave. And there are much more lucrative worldwide markets for us to target if the EU decide to play hardball...which will work out to THEIR cost. | |||
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" it makes me laugh that the solution people have for running away from europe is to run into the arms of the commonwealth... when every high powered commonwealth nation said "don't leave!!!" Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, India and Pakistan! Australia and New Zealand are already clamouring for a trade deal with us now we have voted leave. Just reading in the newspaper South Korea have said they want a trade deal with the UK now. Some African countries said they wanted trade deals with us within hours of the referendum vote result being declared. We've not even triggered article 50 yet and already a long list of countries lining up for a trade deal with us. On your other point about Donald Trump, I get the impression he's not a fan of the EU, if that is the case he may decide to give the UK a good trade deal as a way of getting one over on the EU if he becomes President. As we already trade with most of the above countries .and as trade deals take decades and aren't always favorable to the UK .early days for positivity in hot air .. Trade deals take decades with the EU because you have to get agreement now from 27 member countries and that is inefficient. UK on its own will be able to do trade deals much quicker with other countries outside of the EU on a 1 to 1 basis. " Have you seen the state of the civil service!? | |||
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" No we don't hate. We love our country and those who love our country regardless of colour or religion. We want what we believe to be in the best interests of our country as a whole. We stick to our principles. We won't be cowed by accusations of bigotry,xenophopia or racism. We believe in democracy. and so do i... I don't need a rerun, what is done is done, and now we have to cleanup the mess because its in all our best interests now... can i ask you a question? what is your vision for "leave day +1"? what did you want out of your leave vote? I want control to reside in our elected government. If they put something in a manifesto we can hold them to account. No more pushing the blame to others. In fairness though we are part of a union that doesn't have our ,or indeed other nations, best interests at heart. Trade agreements are one thing, political union is very different. Just because we hold what we perceive as our own interests at heart doesn't make us xenophobic,racist or bigoted. " So you will be holding them to their £350m per week, falls in immigration, unelected PM's and opposition (unless we are given general election), a strong economy - once ranked 5th in the world (now 6th behind France whos industry is stagnated). We already had control. We could already ballot our MP's, strike, petition and make protest. The amount of government u-turns on major exercises like tax credits cuts, disability cuts and the academisation of schools are recent examples. This 'taking back control' is a nonsense. It has been a hijacked Ukip fallacy due to a failed Labour campaign that has the potential to put a neo-right Johnson in Government and see further resentment in putting Ukip stalls out to divide a nation when 'control' isn't exercised. Most leavers don't actually know what it is they voted for I have found. | |||
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" No we don't hate. We love our country and those who love our country regardless of colour or religion. We want what we believe to be in the best interests of our country as a whole. We stick to our principles. We won't be cowed by accusations of bigotry,xenophopia or racism. We believe in democracy. and so do i... I don't need a rerun, what is done is done, and now we have to cleanup the mess because its in all our best interests now... can i ask you a question? what is your vision for "leave day +1"? what did you want out of your leave vote? I want control to reside in our elected government. If they put something in a manifesto we can hold them to account. No more pushing the blame to others. In fairness though we are part of a union that doesn't have our ,or indeed other nations, best interests at heart. Trade agreements are one thing, political union is very different. Just because we hold what we perceive as our own interests at heart doesn't make us xenophobic,racist or bigoted. So you will be holding them to their £350m per week, falls in immigration, unelected PM's and opposition (unless we are given general election), a strong economy - once ranked 5th in the world (now 6th behind France whos industry is stagnated). We already had control. We could already ballot our MP's, strike, petition and make protest. The amount of government u-turns on major exercises like tax credits cuts, disability cuts and the academisation of schools are recent examples. This 'taking back control' is a nonsense. It has been a hijacked Ukip fallacy due to a failed Labour campaign that has the potential to put a neo-right Johnson in Government and see further resentment in putting Ukip stalls out to divide a nation when 'control' isn't exercised. Most leavers don't actually know what it is they voted for I have found. " Forgive me being blunt but that is one of the most sanctimonious and factually incorrect statements I have seen on this subject. One example: You say we already had control? OK. How did we control the number of people coming into the country from the EU? And if we had that control why did 630,000 new NI numbers get issued in 2015? | |||
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" a strong economy - once ranked 5th in the world (now 6th behind France whos industry is stagnated)." We still have a strong economy. That hasn't changed in 6 days (in fact early data shows it is still growing strongly) and I think you are being optimistic to think people will believe you. The last data available (April 21) showed the UK was the 5th largest economy. It was some 17% larger than France in 6th place in GDP terms. It also shows we overtook France in 2013 and France has been going backwards since. https://knoema.com/nwnfkne/world-gdp-ranking-2015-data-and-charts | |||
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"Now the EU has made it clear that if we want to remain in the Single Market we will have to accept free movement of people; should we stay in the single market, get the economic benefits, but keep immigration, or should we leave the single market, take the economic hit and limit immigration? That would be cataclysmic and pre-empt a recession at least twice as bad as what we have just come through. It really frustrates me tbh. Remember all the bravado comments on here and elsewhere... "Do you think the Germans will want tariffs on the BMW's that they sell to us?" "Stuff em... They need us more than we need them." "They export much more to us, than we do to them. They cant afford not to let us have free trade access on ourv terms" Heres what the German car industry thinks http://www.dailyreleased.com/business/eu-referendum-german-car-makers-warn-on-free-movement/ Best re think your ideas !!! " John Redwood basically heard what they said and then completely flipped it. Both the car industry and merkel agree that free trade = free movement. Odd article that one | |||
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" Forgive me being blunt but that is one of the most sanctimonious and factually incorrect statements I have seen on this subject. One example: You say we already had control? OK. How did we control the number of people coming into the country from the EU? And if we had that control why did 630,000 new NI numbers get issued in 2015?" Be as blunt as you like. The issue seems like it is a migrant one. Out of the single market we won't be able to compete financially and be in a worse position than we were than under our previous arrangement. If we remain in it, we have to accept free movement - so tell me what control do you think you have exerted. | |||
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" Forgive me being blunt but that is one of the most sanctimonious and factually incorrect statements I have seen on this subject. One example: You say we already had control? OK. How did we control the number of people coming into the country from the EU? And if we had that control why did 630,000 new NI numbers get issued in 2015? Be as blunt as you like. The issue seems like it is a migrant one. Out of the single market we won't be able to compete financially and be in a worse position than we were than under our previous arrangement. If we remain in it, we have to accept free movement - so tell me what control do you think you have exerted. " Leave campaign sold them a fish, told them it was a hammer and now they're running round twatting nails with a salmon | |||
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" Forgive me being blunt but that is one of the most sanctimonious and factually incorrect statements I have seen on this subject. One example: You say we already had control? OK. How did we control the number of people coming into the country from the EU? And if we had that control why did 630,000 new NI numbers get issued in 2015? Be as blunt as you like. The issue seems like it is a migrant one. Out of the single market we won't be able to compete financially and be in a worse position than we were than under our previous arrangement. If we remain in it, we have to accept free movement - so tell me what control do you think you have exerted. Leave campaign sold them a fish, told them it was a hammer and now they're running round twatting nails with a salmon " At least it's a fish caught by our fishermen in our waters | |||
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" Forgive me being blunt but that is one of the most sanctimonious and factually incorrect statements I have seen on this subject. One example: You say we already had control? OK. How did we control the number of people coming into the country from the EU? And if we had that control why did 630,000 new NI numbers get issued in 2015? Be as blunt as you like. The issue seems like it is a migrant one. Out of the single market we won't be able to compete financially and be in a worse position than we were than under our previous arrangement. If we remain in it, we have to accept free movement - so tell me what control do you think you have exerted. Leave campaign sold them a fish, told them it was a hammer and now they're running round twatting nails with a salmon At least it's a fish caught by our fishermen in our waters "Right ok then mate. so the location of the fish/hammers demise is what matters. Jesus. Like debating a kid who's found the last haribo but doesn't realise it's a fried egg with the yolk bitten off | |||
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"Now the EU has made it clear that if we want to remain in the Single Market we will have to accept free movement of people; should we stay in the single market, get the economic benefits, but keep immigration, or should we leave the single market, take the economic hit and limit immigration?" all this nonsense from the EU saying the trade deal is a 4 combined trade is nonsense, saying we cant get trade without free movement of people is utter nonsense, USA are doing trade right now without free movement of people. Dr Liam Fox has also confirmed this and he said he will be looking for a deal with EU with absolutely no free movement of people included, well spoken Mr. Fox | |||
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" Forgive me being blunt but that is one of the most sanctimonious and factually incorrect statements I have seen on this subject. One example: You say we already had control? OK. How did we control the number of people coming into the country from the EU? And if we had that control why did 630,000 new NI numbers get issued in 2015? Be as blunt as you like. The issue seems like it is a migrant one. Out of the single market we won't be able to compete financially and be in a worse position than we were than under our previous arrangement. If we remain in it, we have to accept free movement - so tell me what control do you think you have exerted. Leave campaign sold them a fish, told them it was a hammer and now they're running round twatting nails with a salmon At least it's a fish caught by our fishermen in our waters
Right ok then mate. so the location of the fish/hammers demise is what matters. Jesus. Like debating a kid who's found the last haribo but doesn't realise it's a fried egg with the yolk bitten off "I don't like haribos | |||
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"Do not confuse "free movement of EU citizens" with "immigration", they're not at all the same. Fact : if we want to retain some elements of beneficial trading with the EU they, in turn, will want similar. Countries who do not share this "free movement of people" don't get anywhere near the same access. "I think you will find they will be worse off, they relay on import/export more than we do, do you really think they are going to cut their nose off to spite their face on this deal guess I should look for an optimist forum, this one is full of wimpering pesimists | |||
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"Do not confuse "free movement of EU citizens" with "immigration", they're not at all the same. Fact : if we want to retain some elements of beneficial trading with the EU they, in turn, will want similar. Countries who do not share this "free movement of people" don't get anywhere near the same access.
I think you will find they will be worse off, they relay on import/export more than we do,
do you really think they are going to cut their nose off to spite their face on this deal
guess I should look for an optimist forum, this one is full of wimpering pesimists"I'm an optimist. Ready all the negative comments makes me realise just how optimistic I am | |||
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"Now the EU has made it clear that if we want to remain in the Single Market we will have to accept free movement of people; should we stay in the single market, get the economic benefits, but keep immigration, or should we leave the single market, take the economic hit and limit immigration? all this nonsense from the EU saying the trade deal is a 4 combined trade is nonsense, saying we cant get trade without free movement of people is utter nonsense, USA are doing trade right now without free movement of people. Dr Liam Fox has also confirmed this and he said he will be looking for a deal with EU with absolutely no free movement of people included, well spoken Mr. Fox" Teresa May has just given her campaign speech and said you never show your full hand before doing a deal. Wise words really. | |||
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"................ do you really think they are going to cut their nose off to spite their face on this deal................. " EU exports to the UK - 3% of EU GDP UK exports to the EU - 13% of UK GDP The cards are very much in the hands of the EU and whilst it is difficult for the typical Englander to understand - the EU plays as a team. | |||
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"................ do you really think they are going to cut their nose off to spite their face on this deal................. EU exports to the UK - 3% of EU GDP UK exports to the EU - 13% of UK GDP The cards are very much in the hands of the EU and whilst it is difficult for the typical Englander to understand - the EU plays as a team. " no it doesn't. Look at the disparity between north and south | |||
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"Now the EU has made it clear that if we want to remain in the Single Market we will have to accept free movement of people; should we stay in the single market, get the economic benefits, but keep immigration, or should we leave the single market, take the economic hit and limit immigration? all this nonsense from the EU saying the trade deal is a 4 combined trade is nonsense, saying we cant get trade without free movement of people is utter nonsense, USA are doing trade right now without free movement of people. Dr Liam Fox has also confirmed this and he said he will be looking for a deal with EU with absolutely no free movement of people included, well spoken Mr. Fox Teresa May has just given her campaign speech and said you never show your full hand before doing a deal. Wise words really. " I said that yesterday, Westminster have a contingency plan well thought out, Cameron standing down is just a "play for time" game, we are well equipped, we have the experience, we have the people and we have the fight to put the whole EU in line. The government is not going to stand up and tell everyone what it is planning, as that also gives the EU information. Wait and see, Everyone will be wishing we pulled out of the EU years ago, many years ago | |||
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"Seems as if many here are still listening to project fear instead of opening their eyes to life in the real world. The EU currently has a number of deals with countries outside the EU that does not involve free movement of people, take for instance the Customs Union with Turkey and about 6 other countries, admittedly the free movement of goods excludes agricultural products but it is still a deal that involves free movement of goods. In addition number of the EU countries (as opposed to the Commission) want to negotiate a deal with the UK that does not involve free movement of people. It should also be remembered that a number of countries are suggesting the free movement of people inside the EU may be changed or restricted in the future, so don’t go thinking free movement of people is something that the EU will not discuss and possibly relax on. " "In addition number of the EU countries (as opposed to the Commission) want to negotiate a deal with the UK that does not involve free movement of people." The heads of state of all the other members of the EU just signed a statement yesterday saying the exact OPPOSITE! Leave campaigners (like Nigel Evans and Daniel Hannan) are saying that immigration will not significantly reduce. You say the the Remainers are project Fear, but you seem to be ignoring all the evidence that contradicts your idea of how it will work. | |||
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"Seems as if many here are still listening to project fear instead of opening their eyes to life in the real world. The EU currently has a number of deals with countries outside the EU that does not involve free movement of people, take for instance the Customs Union with Turkey and about 6 other countries, admittedly the free movement of goods excludes agricultural products but it is still a deal that involves free movement of goods. In addition number of the EU countries (as opposed to the Commission) want to negotiate a deal with the UK that does not involve free movement of people. It should also be remembered that a number of countries are suggesting the free movement of people inside the EU may be changed or restricted in the future, so don’t go thinking free movement of people is something that the EU will not discuss and possibly relax on. "In addition number of the EU countries (as opposed to the Commission) want to negotiate a deal with the UK that does not involve free movement of people." The heads of state of all the other members of the EU just signed a statement yesterday saying the exact OPPOSITE! Leave campaigners (like Nigel Evans and Daniel Hannan) are saying that immigration will not significantly reduce. You say the the Remainers are project Fear, but you seem to be ignoring all the evidence that contradicts your idea of how it will work. " so what's happening with Turkey now? You know, that country that wouldn't be joining til about the year 3000? | |||
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"Seems as if many here are still listening to project fear instead of opening their eyes to life in the real world. The EU currently has a number of deals with countries outside the EU that does not involve free movement of people, take for instance the Customs Union with Turkey and about 6 other countries, admittedly the free movement of goods excludes agricultural products but it is still a deal that involves free movement of goods. In addition number of the EU countries (as opposed to the Commission) want to negotiate a deal with the UK that does not involve free movement of people. It should also be remembered that a number of countries are suggesting the free movement of people inside the EU may be changed or restricted in the future, so don’t go thinking free movement of people is something that the EU will not discuss and possibly relax on. "In addition number of the EU countries (as opposed to the Commission) want to negotiate a deal with the UK that does not involve free movement of people." The heads of state of all the other members of the EU just signed a statement yesterday saying the exact OPPOSITE! Leave campaigners (like Nigel Evans and Daniel Hannan) are saying that immigration will not significantly reduce. You say the the Remainers are project Fear, but you seem to be ignoring all the evidence that contradicts your idea of how it will work. so what's happening with Turkey now? You know, that country that wouldn't be joining til about the year 3000?" It's taken Turkey about 10 years to hit one of 35 conditions. It's a long, long way off joining | |||
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"Seems as if many here are still listening to project fear instead of opening their eyes to life in the real world. The EU currently has a number of deals with countries outside the EU that does not involve free movement of people, take for instance the Customs Union with Turkey and about 6 other countries, admittedly the free movement of goods excludes agricultural products but it is still a deal that involves free movement of goods. In addition number of the EU countries (as opposed to the Commission) want to negotiate a deal with the UK that does not involve free movement of people. It should also be remembered that a number of countries are suggesting the free movement of people inside the EU may be changed or restricted in the future, so don’t go thinking free movement of people is something that the EU will not discuss and possibly relax on. "In addition number of the EU countries (as opposed to the Commission) want to negotiate a deal with the UK that does not involve free movement of people." The heads of state of all the other members of the EU just signed a statement yesterday saying the exact OPPOSITE! Leave campaigners (like Nigel Evans and Daniel Hannan) are saying that immigration will not significantly reduce. You say the the Remainers are project Fear, but you seem to be ignoring all the evidence that contradicts your idea of how it will work. " I said yesterday that that statement wasn't worth the paper it was written on and its true. It was just rushed into posturing. Why do you follow these people? | |||
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"Seems as if many here are still listening to project fear instead of opening their eyes to life in the real world. The EU currently has a number of deals with countries outside the EU that does not involve free movement of people, take for instance the Customs Union with Turkey and about 6 other countries, admittedly the free movement of goods excludes agricultural products but it is still a deal that involves free movement of goods. In addition number of the EU countries (as opposed to the Commission) want to negotiate a deal with the UK that does not involve free movement of people. It should also be remembered that a number of countries are suggesting the free movement of people inside the EU may be changed or restricted in the future, so don’t go thinking free movement of people is something that the EU will not discuss and possibly relax on. "In addition number of the EU countries (as opposed to the Commission) want to negotiate a deal with the UK that does not involve free movement of people." The heads of state of all the other members of the EU just signed a statement yesterday saying the exact OPPOSITE! Leave campaigners (like Nigel Evans and Daniel Hannan) are saying that immigration will not significantly reduce. You say the the Remainers are project Fear, but you seem to be ignoring all the evidence that contradicts your idea of how it will work. so what's happening with Turkey now? You know, that country that wouldn't be joining til about the year 3000? It's taken Turkey about 10 years to hit one of 35 conditions. It's a long, long way off joining " you think? So what are the talks about today? | |||
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" I said yesterday that that statement wasn't worth the paper it was written on and its true. It was just rushed into posturing. Why do you follow these people?" Why do I follow these people? I don’t follow them, but I do believe them. This isn’t something that they have said behind closed doors to one person and we are hearing it second or third hand. These are the Heads of State of 27 countries making a public statement! They are going to look like idiots if they then go back on their word, they individually, and the EU collectively would lose political credibility if they did a U turn on this issue. Why would they do that? If they were so desperate to keep us, then they would have let Cameron negotiate on free movement of Labour before the referendum. | |||
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"Seems as if many here are still listening to project fear instead of opening their eyes to life in the real world. The EU currently has a number of deals with countries outside the EU that does not involve free movement of people, take for instance the Customs Union with Turkey and about 6 other countries, admittedly the free movement of goods excludes agricultural products but it is still a deal that involves free movement of goods. In addition number of the EU countries (as opposed to the Commission) want to negotiate a deal with the UK that does not involve free movement of people. It should also be remembered that a number of countries are suggesting the free movement of people inside the EU may be changed or restricted in the future, so don’t go thinking free movement of people is something that the EU will not discuss and possibly relax on. "In addition number of the EU countries (as opposed to the Commission) want to negotiate a deal with the UK that does not involve free movement of people." The heads of state of all the other members of the EU just signed a statement yesterday saying the exact OPPOSITE! Leave campaigners (like Nigel Evans and Daniel Hannan) are saying that immigration will not significantly reduce. You say the the Remainers are project Fear, but you seem to be ignoring all the evidence that contradicts your idea of how it will work. so what's happening with Turkey now? You know, that country that wouldn't be joining til about the year 3000? It's taken Turkey about 10 years to hit one of 35 conditions. It's a long, long way off joining you think? So what are the talks about today?" It's an ongoing application. They have talks ALL THE TIME! Today is about budget contributions. It's chapter 16 of 35 that's been opened. These processes are normal and every day occurrences. They still have blocks in certain areas and are in no way going to join tomorrow. Good job you don't believe the fear | |||
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" I said yesterday that that statement wasn't worth the paper it was written on and its true. It was just rushed into posturing. Why do you follow these people? Why do I follow these people? I don’t follow them, but I do believe them. This isn’t something that they have said behind closed doors to one person and we are hearing it second or third hand. These are the Heads of State of 27 countries making a public statement! They are going to look like idiots if they then go back on their word, they individually, and the EU collectively would lose political credibility if they did a U turn on this issue. Why would they do that? If they were so desperate to keep us, then they would have let Cameron negotiate on free movement of Labour before the referendum." believe them then. They don't have any credibility to lose | |||
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"Seems as if many here are still listening to project fear instead of opening their eyes to life in the real world. The EU currently has a number of deals with countries outside the EU that does not involve free movement of people, take for instance the Customs Union with Turkey and about 6 other countries, admittedly the free movement of goods excludes agricultural products but it is still a deal that involves free movement of goods. In addition number of the EU countries (as opposed to the Commission) want to negotiate a deal with the UK that does not involve free movement of people. It should also be remembered that a number of countries are suggesting the free movement of people inside the EU may be changed or restricted in the future, so don’t go thinking free movement of people is something that the EU will not discuss and possibly relax on. "In addition number of the EU countries (as opposed to the Commission) want to negotiate a deal with the UK that does not involve free movement of people." The heads of state of all the other members of the EU just signed a statement yesterday saying the exact OPPOSITE! Leave campaigners (like Nigel Evans and Daniel Hannan) are saying that immigration will not significantly reduce. You say the the Remainers are project Fear, but you seem to be ignoring all the evidence that contradicts your idea of how it will work. so what's happening with Turkey now? You know, that country that wouldn't be joining til about the year 3000? It's taken Turkey about 10 years to hit one of 35 conditions. It's a long, long way off joining you think? So what are the talks about today? It's an ongoing application. They have talks ALL THE TIME! Today is about budget contributions. It's chapter 16 of 35 that's been opened. These processes are normal and every day occurrences. They still have blocks in certain areas and are in no way going to join tomorrow. Good job you don't believe the fear "yeah ok
so would you like to see them join? | |||
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"Seems as if many here are still listening to project fear instead of opening their eyes to life in the real world. The EU currently has a number of deals with countries outside the EU that does not involve free movement of people, take for instance the Customs Union with Turkey and about 6 other countries, admittedly the free movement of goods excludes agricultural products but it is still a deal that involves free movement of goods. In addition number of the EU countries (as opposed to the Commission) want to negotiate a deal with the UK that does not involve free movement of people. It should also be remembered that a number of countries are suggesting the free movement of people inside the EU may be changed or restricted in the future, so don’t go thinking free movement of people is something that the EU will not discuss and possibly relax on. "In addition number of the EU countries (as opposed to the Commission) want to negotiate a deal with the UK that does not involve free movement of people." The heads of state of all the other members of the EU just signed a statement yesterday saying the exact OPPOSITE! Leave campaigners (like Nigel Evans and Daniel Hannan) are saying that immigration will not significantly reduce. You say the the Remainers are project Fear, but you seem to be ignoring all the evidence that contradicts your idea of how it will work. so what's happening with Turkey now? You know, that country that wouldn't be joining til about the year 3000? It's taken Turkey about 10 years to hit one of 35 conditions. It's a long, long way off joining you think? So what are the talks about today? It's an ongoing application. They have talks ALL THE TIME! Today is about budget contributions. It's chapter 16 of 35 that's been opened. These processes are normal and every day occurrences. They still have blocks in certain areas and are in no way going to join tomorrow. Good job you don't believe the fear
yeah ok
so would you like to see them join?"That wasn't the question and you seem to dismiss the facts again. I am not sure either way about them joining. Not that it matters though tight? We've already left and have to "get on with it" so really isn't our concern | |||
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"Seems as if many here are still listening to project fear instead of opening their eyes to life in the real world. The EU currently has a number of deals with countries outside the EU that does not involve free movement of people, take for instance the Customs Union with Turkey and about 6 other countries, admittedly the free movement of goods excludes agricultural products but it is still a deal that involves free movement of goods. In addition number of the EU countries (as opposed to the Commission) want to negotiate a deal with the UK that does not involve free movement of people. It should also be remembered that a number of countries are suggesting the free movement of people inside the EU may be changed or restricted in the future, so don’t go thinking free movement of people is something that the EU will not discuss and possibly relax on. "In addition number of the EU countries (as opposed to the Commission) want to negotiate a deal with the UK that does not involve free movement of people." The heads of state of all the other members of the EU just signed a statement yesterday saying the exact OPPOSITE! Leave campaigners (like Nigel Evans and Daniel Hannan) are saying that immigration will not significantly reduce. You say the the Remainers are project Fear, but you seem to be ignoring all the evidence that contradicts your idea of how it will work. so what's happening with Turkey now? You know, that country that wouldn't be joining til about the year 3000? It's taken Turkey about 10 years to hit one of 35 conditions. It's a long, long way off joining you think? So what are the talks about today? It's an ongoing application. They have talks ALL THE TIME! Today is about budget contributions. It's chapter 16 of 35 that's been opened. These processes are normal and every day occurrences. They still have blocks in certain areas and are in no way going to join tomorrow. Good job you don't believe the fear
yeah ok
so would you like to see them join?
That wasn't the question and you seem to dismiss the facts again. I am not sure either way about them joining. Not that it matters though tight? We've already left and have to "get on with it" so really isn't our concern "why are you not sure either way? Why shouldn't they join? Are you some sort of racist? | |||
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" I said yesterday that that statement wasn't worth the paper it was written on and its true. It was just rushed into posturing. Why do you follow these people? Why do I follow these people? I don’t follow them, but I do believe them. This isn’t something that they have said behind closed doors to one person and we are hearing it second or third hand. These are the Heads of State of 27 countries making a public statement! They are going to look like idiots if they then go back on their word, they individually, and the EU collectively would lose political credibility if they did a U turn on this issue. Why would they do that? If they were so desperate to keep us, then they would have let Cameron negotiate on free movement of Labour before the referendum. believe them then. They don't have any credibility to lose" What do you mean they don’t have any credibility to lose? They have been credible enough to become the head of state in their own countries haven’t they? At least some of them want to continue to be head of state, to do that, they will need to remain to be credible won’t they? | |||
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"................ do you really think they are going to cut their nose off to spite their face on this deal................. EU exports to the UK - 3% of EU GDP UK exports to the EU - 13% of UK GDP The cards are very much in the hands of the EU and whilst it is difficult for the typical Englander to understand - the EU plays as a team. "
The insane optimism of the "optimistic" Leavers really does give great entertainment, doesn't it? They act as if England was the centre of the Universe! I think they should read up on some history . . the World map hasn't been 1/3 "pink" for over 75 years!! | |||
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"Seems as if many here are still listening to project fear instead of opening their eyes to life in the real world. The EU currently has a number of deals with countries outside the EU that does not involve free movement of people, take for instance the Customs Union with Turkey and about 6 other countries, admittedly the free movement of goods excludes agricultural products but it is still a deal that involves free movement of goods. In addition number of the EU countries (as opposed to the Commission) want to negotiate a deal with the UK that does not involve free movement of people. It should also be remembered that a number of countries are suggesting the free movement of people inside the EU may be changed or restricted in the future, so don’t go thinking free movement of people is something that the EU will not discuss and possibly relax on. "In addition number of the EU countries (as opposed to the Commission) want to negotiate a deal with the UK that does not involve free movement of people." The heads of state of all the other members of the EU just signed a statement yesterday saying the exact OPPOSITE! Leave campaigners (like Nigel Evans and Daniel Hannan) are saying that immigration will not significantly reduce. You say the the Remainers are project Fear, but you seem to be ignoring all the evidence that contradicts your idea of how it will work. so what's happening with Turkey now? You know, that country that wouldn't be joining til about the year 3000? It's taken Turkey about 10 years to hit one of 35 conditions. It's a long, long way off joining you think? So what are the talks about today? It's an ongoing application. They have talks ALL THE TIME! Today is about budget contributions. It's chapter 16 of 35 that's been opened. These processes are normal and every day occurrences. They still have blocks in certain areas and are in no way going to join tomorrow. Good job you don't believe the fear
yeah ok
so would you like to see them join?
That wasn't the question and you seem to dismiss the facts again. I am not sure either way about them joining. Not that it matters though tight? We've already left and have to "get on with it" so really isn't our concern
why are you not sure either way? Why shouldn't they join? Are you some sort of racist?"An opinion either way would pigeon hole me. I haven't declared an opinion on their membership. Thank you though for bringing constructive arguments to the table. I dare ask what your opinion on them joining is? | |||
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" I said yesterday that that statement wasn't worth the paper it was written on and its true. It was just rushed into posturing. Why do you follow these people? Why do I follow these people? I don’t follow them, but I do believe them. This isn’t something that they have said behind closed doors to one person and we are hearing it second or third hand. These are the Heads of State of 27 countries making a public statement! They are going to look like idiots if they then go back on their word, they individually, and the EU collectively would lose political credibility if they did a U turn on this issue. Why would they do that? If they were so desperate to keep us, then they would have let Cameron negotiate on free movement of Labour before the referendum. believe them then. They don't have any credibility to lose What do you mean they don’t have any credibility to lose? They have been credible enough to become the head of state in their own countries haven’t they? At least some of them want to continue to be head of state, to do that, they will need to remain to be credible won’t they?" I meant as a union | |||
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"Seems as if many here are still listening to project fear instead of opening their eyes to life in the real world. The EU currently has a number of deals with countries outside the EU that does not involve free movement of people, take for instance the Customs Union with Turkey and about 6 other countries, admittedly the free movement of goods excludes agricultural products but it is still a deal that involves free movement of goods. In addition number of the EU countries (as opposed to the Commission) want to negotiate a deal with the UK that does not involve free movement of people. It should also be remembered that a number of countries are suggesting the free movement of people inside the EU may be changed or restricted in the future, so don’t go thinking free movement of people is something that the EU will not discuss and possibly relax on. "In addition number of the EU countries (as opposed to the Commission) want to negotiate a deal with the UK that does not involve free movement of people." The heads of state of all the other members of the EU just signed a statement yesterday saying the exact OPPOSITE! Leave campaigners (like Nigel Evans and Daniel Hannan) are saying that immigration will not significantly reduce. You say the the Remainers are project Fear, but you seem to be ignoring all the evidence that contradicts your idea of how it will work. so what's happening with Turkey now? You know, that country that wouldn't be joining til about the year 3000? It's taken Turkey about 10 years to hit one of 35 conditions. It's a long, long way off joining you think? So what are the talks about today? It's an ongoing application. They have talks ALL THE TIME! Today is about budget contributions. It's chapter 16 of 35 that's been opened. These processes are normal and every day occurrences. They still have blocks in certain areas and are in no way going to join tomorrow. Good job you don't believe the fear
yeah ok
so would you like to see them join?
That wasn't the question and you seem to dismiss the facts again. I am not sure either way about them joining. Not that it matters though tight? We've already left and have to "get on with it" so really isn't our concern
why are you not sure either way? Why shouldn't they join? Are you some sort of racist?
An opinion either way would pigeon hole me. I haven't declared an opinion on their membership. Thank you though for bringing constructive arguments to the table.
I dare ask what your opinion on them joining is?"couldn't care less now
they might just get in in time for the curtain fall though | |||
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" I said yesterday that that statement wasn't worth the paper it was written on and its true. It was just rushed into posturing. Why do you follow these people? Why do I follow these people? I don’t follow them, but I do believe them. This isn’t something that they have said behind closed doors to one person and we are hearing it second or third hand. These are the Heads of State of 27 countries making a public statement! They are going to look like idiots if they then go back on their word, they individually, and the EU collectively would lose political credibility if they did a U turn on this issue. Why would they do that? If they were so desperate to keep us, then they would have let Cameron negotiate on free movement of Labour before the referendum. believe them then. They don't have any credibility to lose What do you mean they don’t have any credibility to lose? They have been credible enough to become the head of state in their own countries haven’t they? At least some of them want to continue to be head of state, to do that, they will need to remain to be credible won’t they? I meant as a union" But they are not just a union are they? They are also domestic politicians! | |||
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" I said yesterday that that statement wasn't worth the paper it was written on and its true. It was just rushed into posturing. Why do you follow these people? Why do I follow these people? I don’t follow them, but I do believe them. This isn’t something that they have said behind closed doors to one person and we are hearing it second or third hand. These are the Heads of State of 27 countries making a public statement! They are going to look like idiots if they then go back on their word, they individually, and the EU collectively would lose political credibility if they did a U turn on this issue. Why would they do that? If they were so desperate to keep us, then they would have let Cameron negotiate on free movement of Labour before the referendum. believe them then. They don't have any credibility to lose What do you mean they don’t have any credibility to lose? They have been credible enough to become the head of state in their own countries haven’t they? At least some of them want to continue to be head of state, to do that, they will need to remain to be credible won’t they? I meant as a union But they are not just a union are they? They are also domestic politicians! " Exactly. Which is why they will make their own minds up and do what is best for their own countries when it comes down to it | |||
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" I said yesterday that that statement wasn't worth the paper it was written on and its true. It was just rushed into posturing. Why do you follow these people? Why do I follow these people? I don’t follow them, but I do believe them. This isn’t something that they have said behind closed doors to one person and we are hearing it second or third hand. These are the Heads of State of 27 countries making a public statement! They are going to look like idiots if they then go back on their word, they individually, and the EU collectively would lose political credibility if they did a U turn on this issue. Why would they do that? If they were so desperate to keep us, then they would have let Cameron negotiate on free movement of Labour before the referendum. believe them then. They don't have any credibility to lose What do you mean they don’t have any credibility to lose? They have been credible enough to become the head of state in their own countries haven’t they? At least some of them want to continue to be head of state, to do that, they will need to remain to be credible won’t they? I meant as a union But they are not just a union are they? They are also domestic politicians! Exactly. Which is why they will make their own minds up and do what is best for their own countries when it comes down to it" But they just made an announcement saying the opposite!!!!!!!!!!! Why do you think people will do the OPPOSITE of what they publicly state? | |||
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" I said yesterday that that statement wasn't worth the paper it was written on and its true. It was just rushed into posturing. Why do you follow these people? Why do I follow these people? I don’t follow them, but I do believe them. This isn’t something that they have said behind closed doors to one person and we are hearing it second or third hand. These are the Heads of State of 27 countries making a public statement! They are going to look like idiots if they then go back on their word, they individually, and the EU collectively would lose political credibility if they did a U turn on this issue. Why would they do that? If they were so desperate to keep us, then they would have let Cameron negotiate on free movement of Labour before the referendum. believe them then. They don't have any credibility to lose What do you mean they don’t have any credibility to lose? They have been credible enough to become the head of state in their own countries haven’t they? At least some of them want to continue to be head of state, to do that, they will need to remain to be credible won’t they? I meant as a union But they are not just a union are they? They are also domestic politicians! Exactly. Which is why they will make their own minds up and do what is best for their own countries when it comes down to it But they just made an announcement saying the opposite!!!!!!!!!!! Why do you think people will do the OPPOSITE of what they publicly state?" errr its called politics
as we've seen this morning | |||
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"There is an assumption that no other countries will have a vote in the near future which could weaken the EU further. I would like to see the demise of the EU and the creation of a free trade area.Which could be expanded greatly I don’t think that any other country will have a in/out referendum before we have fully concluded our negotiations. We are the guinea pig. The demise of the EU would cause a massive world wide recession. Why would you want that? Because the EU is the boogeyman for these people. They don't care how much harm they do, how many people, either here or anywhere else, they throw on the scrap head of recession. They'll tell any lie, threaten and deride any institution or person and take any risk just as long as they get to spread their message of hate, division and disharmony as far as possible. They hate the EU because it stands for unity, harmony and common trust, the total opposite of what they believe in. No we don't hate. We love our country and those who love our country regardless of colour or religion. We want what we believe to be in the best interests of our country as a whole. We stick to our principles. We won't be cowed by accusations of bigotry,xenophopia or racism. We believe in democracy. " You say "we love our country", I say you'll say any lie. What person who loves their country would vote for a needless finical crises, vote to risk throwing millions of their fellow countrymen into the unemployment scrapheap of a needless recession, vote to possibly break their country up unnecessarily, vote to leave the people of Gibraltar almost totally unable to provide for their own future. How is any of that showing you love your for your country. And the real test of this love you claim you have is that you are risking all of this for... well you tell me. What are we all meant to be risking the very future and existence of the United Kingdom for? From where I'm sitting, if everything goes as best it possibly could we end up at best no better than we were before. So don't tell me you love this country when you have just voted for the biggest danger to it's continued existence since the end of WWII; I simply don't believe you. | |||
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"Do not confuse "free movement of EU citizens" with "immigration", they're not at all the same. Fact : if we want to retain some elements of beneficial trading with the EU they, in turn, will want similar. Countries who do not share this "free movement of people" don't get anywhere near the same access.
I think you will find they will be worse off, they relay on import/export more than we do,
do you really think they are going to cut their nose off to spite their face on this deal
guess I should look for an optimist forum, this one is full of wimpering pesimists"Well we are cutting our own nose of to spite our face. What makes you think Jonny Foreigner won't do the same? | |||
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" Forgive me being blunt but that is one of the most sanctimonious and factually incorrect statements I have seen on this subject. One example: You say we already had control? OK. How did we control the number of people coming into the country from the EU? And if we had that control why did 630,000 new NI numbers get issued in 2015? Be as blunt as you like. The issue seems like it is a migrant one. Out of the single market we won't be able to compete financially and be in a worse position than we were than under our previous arrangement. If we remain in it, we have to accept free movement - so tell me what control do you think you have exerted. " Well your assumptions are based on a false premise entirely. Define 'out of the Single Market' for me. Like the USA, China, Canada and, dare I mention it, Iceland are 'out of the Single Market'? The EU (which means the Single Market) when you are a member as we are / were cost us over £13 Bn a year for the privilege. It also cost us a £61 Bn a year trade deficit. And on top of that, because it is a Customs Union not a free trade area, it costs us in Tariffs and duties when we trade with other countries outside the EU. So on balance what did we actually gain from this 'Single Market'? We will come to an agreement with the EU just as others have done and because of a) our purchasing power being the 5th largest economy and b) that £61 Bn they profit from us it will be an acceptable one to us. But of course we can then arrange Free Trade Terms, which has always multiplied trade, with all the countries with whom we already trade currently under the shackles imposed by Brussels. I am sure the USA (with whom we did some $114 Bn trade in 2015) will not complain at us reducing import Tariffs from the EU 10% to the 2.5% they charge us. And finally you assume quite irrationally for the reasons I give above that 'we have to accept Free Movement'. Does the USA accept Free Movement? No it doesn't and neither will we. No one on the Leave side gave any numbers because it isn't a numbers game although the Tories are still hoist on their own stupid Petard of 'hundreds of thousands'. Its about controlling a) who comes here regardless of where from, b) how we evaluate their skills so we stop discrimination against non-EU countries and c) how we invest for the people we need rather than be driven along catering for millions we have no control over. We currently have an open door to 500 Mn people. That is just very very scary. | |||
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"Funny how things turn out leave campaign said we need to get out cuz turkey is gona join the EU now if we did keep the single market and Turkey does join the EU..the UK will have no say in the matter which it had before.. Members get a veto on new members joining, they also get to put a barrier on the free movement of people for unto 10 years. We wouldn’t have either of those anymore. Daft isn’t it?" Who cares? We will no longer be in the Madhouse that the Lunatics now control.... | |||
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" You just spelled it out in your own words there, we never had free trade with the EU because we were a "fully paid up member of the club". If you pay an EU membership fee to access the single market (like we were doing) then it's not free is it. The EU membership fee is a tariff. "
why can't some people just 'get' this simple fact? The EU is a Customs Union into which some not all (and thats another reason to leave) pay in to enjoy what? Being dictated to by unelected Quangos who flit between one extravagance in Brussels to another in Strasbourg? Having some Foreigners hand Directives we have to enact that bypass our elected Government?
Does the USA, China, Canada etc have all this shit? No they don't. Do they happily trade with the EU. Well apparently yes they do ....
And so will we. But we will also be unshackled from the Tariffs we have to erect against non-EU countries as dictated by Brussels. | |||
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" 3,500,000 directly employed in businesses/industry that trade in the single market " The number given was actually 3 Mn but it was a very simplistic number calculated by the Treasury who divided the % value of the goods sold to the EU into the UK workforce. There is no credible evidence to support your number. " 2,500,000 indirectly employed in support sectors " You repeat the same mistake you made above and again inflated the numbers ... tut. It is all explained at BBC reality Check. " £227 billion in exports to EU Tax revenues directly from production approx £40 billion Indirect taxes from PAYE, NI, fuel and other duties estimated £30-£50 billion " Oh I see you quote the overall number without actually seeing the result of all this trade. let me quote from the office of National Statistics: "UK trade with the EU is dominated by goods rather than services; in 2014, trade in goods represented close to two-thirds of all UK exports to the EU, and over three-quarters of total UK imports from the EU. Between 1999 and 2014, goods imported by the UK from the EU have risen by 4.9% per year on average, compared to exports which have risen by 2.5% per year, causing the UK’s trade in goods deficit with the EU to rise to £77.0 billion." Note the 'Goods' part because that is the stuff we buy and use. Like cars from Germany. £77 Bn. And we are increasing those imports at twice the rate we are exporting (to the EU). Where in Global exports it is the complete reverse. Well I guess if you assume an incorrect number of people as you did at the start you end up with incorrect numbers all the way through. So you really need to justify those PAYE and other numbers. There is as I said NO credible evidence to support your numbers outside the Project fear campaign run by the Treasury and Osborne. "Yes - we will just fuck that off cos we dont want any more Polish and Spanish waiters." And you want us to take you seriously? Try harder. And here is a little thought for you adn the '2nd Referendum' mob: "In a post-referendum poll by ComRes, 92% of leave voters said they were happy with the outcome, while 4% of remain voters were happy (and, overall, 7% were indifferent)." Its that BBC Reality Check thing again.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35603388 | |||
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"Do people not realise that if the EU give free trade to the UK without free movement that the EU will then basically collapse other countries will simply leave and want the same deal as the UK? That's why it will never happen. The turkeys aren't going to vote for Christmas. " Please do not confuse the EU with 'Free Trade'. It is an inward looking protectionist cartel that charges people (well some) to join and enjoy preferential terms. We are shackled by EU mandated import Tariffs for goods from outside the EU. Currently about 10%. So all that food we buy from outside the EU can now be cheaper. But your analogy is correct. if the EU did give us Tariff Free terms then it will signal the end of the EU. Given the current sentiment in Europe against the EU that time may come before we ever agree terms .... | |||
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"Do people not realise that if the EU give free trade to the UK without free movement that the EU will then basically collapse other countries will simply leave and want the same deal as the UK? That's why it will never happen. The turkeys aren't going to vote for Christmas. Please do not confuse the EU with 'Free Trade'. It is an inward looking protectionist cartel that charges people (well some) to join and enjoy preferential terms. We are shackled by EU mandated import Tariffs for goods from outside the EU. Currently about 10%. So all that food we buy from outside the EU can now be cheaper. But your analogy is correct. if the EU did give us Tariff Free terms then it will signal the end of the EU. Given the current sentiment in Europe against the EU that time may come before we ever agree terms ...." What current sentiment? | |||
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" What current sentiment? " If that was irony I apologise but I suspect you are in denial.... "A survey published on Monday by the European Council on Foreign Relations (ECFR) found that these parties are currently calling for a total of 33 popular referendums in the coming year." "A recent survey by the Pew Research Centre found that only 38 per cent of France had a favourable view of the EU, marking an astonishing negative shift in attitudes towards Brussels since the 2009 financial crisis that has been mirrored to varying degrees all across Europe." "A poll last month by Ipsos-MORI found that nearly half of voters in eight big European Union countries want to be able to vote on whether to remain members of the bloc, with a third saying they would opt to leave, if given the choice." Its all in here and the rest of the article indicates that Holland, France and Italy are all near or above the UK's pre-Referendum levels of distrust for the EU. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/28/brexit-contagion-uk-vote-raises-fears-of-a-tsunami-of-eu-members/ | |||
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" 3,500,000 directly employed in businesses/industry that trade in the single market The number given was actually 3 Mn but it was a very simplistic number calculated by the Treasury who divided the % value of the goods sold to the EU into the UK workforce. There is no credible evidence to support your number. 2,500,000 indirectly employed in support sectors You repeat the same mistake you made above and again inflated the numbers ... tut. It is all explained at BBC reality Check. £227 billion in exports to EU Tax revenues directly from production approx £40 billion Indirect taxes from PAYE, NI, fuel and other duties estimated £30-£50 billion Oh I see you quote the overall number without actually seeing the result of all this trade. let me quote from the office of National Statistics: "UK trade with the EU is dominated by goods rather than services; in 2014, trade in goods represented close to two-thirds of all UK exports to the EU, and over three-quarters of total UK imports from the EU. Between 1999 and 2014, goods imported by the UK from the EU have risen by 4.9% per year on average, compared to exports which have risen by 2.5% per year, causing the UK’s trade in goods deficit with the EU to rise to £77.0 billion." Note the 'Goods' part because that is the stuff we buy and use. Like cars from Germany. £77 Bn. And we are increasing those imports at twice the rate we are exporting (to the EU). Where in Global exports it is the complete reverse. Well I guess if you assume an incorrect number of people as you did at the start you end up with incorrect numbers all the way through. So you really need to justify those PAYE and other numbers. There is as I said NO credible evidence to support your numbers outside the Project fear campaign run by the Treasury and Osborne. Yes - we will just fuck that off cos we dont want any more Polish and Spanish waiters. And you want us to take you seriously? Try harder. And here is a little thought for you adn the '2nd Referendum' mob: "In a post-referendum poll by ComRes, 92% of leave voters said they were happy with the outcome, while 4% of remain voters were happy (and, overall, 7% were indifferent)." Its that BBC Reality Check thing again.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35603388" So I checked the full fact website and you are right, I was wrong.... The House of Commons Library used similar methods looking at the whole economy rather than an industry-by-industry breakdown and found that on this measure 4.5 million jobs were "dependent" on exports to EU countries. It's an imprecise figure, although the same method applied to figures for 2000 showed just over 3 million jobs linked to EU exports. It suggests, at the very least, there may have been some increase since then (although the working population has also grown). Not quite sure why you choose to illustrate the trade deficit which would only get worse if we left?? Brits are not that good at giving up their fine French wines and German cars. And I reiterate... Is it really worth fucking off £227 billion worth of exports and 4,500,000 people because we dont want any more Spanish waiters?? | |||
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" What current sentiment? If that was irony I apologise but I suspect you are in denial.... "A survey published on Monday by the European Council on Foreign Relations (ECFR) found that these parties are currently calling for a total of 33 popular referendums in the coming year." "A recent survey by the Pew Research Centre found that only 38 per cent of France had a favourable view of the EU, marking an astonishing negative shift in attitudes towards Brussels since the 2009 financial crisis that has been mirrored to varying degrees all across Europe." "A poll last month by Ipsos-MORI found that nearly half of voters in eight big European Union countries want to be able to vote on whether to remain members of the bloc, with a third saying they would opt to leave, if given the choice." Its all in here and the rest of the article indicates that Holland, France and Italy are all near or above the UK's pre-Referendum levels of distrust for the EU. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/28/brexit-contagion-uk-vote-raises-fears-of-a-tsunami-of-eu-members/ " I'd hardly call that bad. Quite good in fact. Fairly irrelevant how many parties are calling for referendums, what matters is their size. So in the 8 big countries only 33% would vote to leave? Hardly that worrying. | |||
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" What current sentiment? If that was irony I apologise but I suspect you are in denial.... "A survey published on Monday by the European Council on Foreign Relations (ECFR) found that these parties are currently calling for a total of 33 popular referendums in the coming year." "A recent survey by the Pew Research Centre found that only 38 per cent of France had a favourable view of the EU, marking an astonishing negative shift in attitudes towards Brussels since the 2009 financial crisis that has been mirrored to varying degrees all across Europe." "A poll last month by Ipsos-MORI found that nearly half of voters in eight big European Union countries want to be able to vote on whether to remain members of the bloc, with a third saying they would opt to leave, if given the choice." Its all in here and the rest of the article indicates that Holland, France and Italy are all near or above the UK's pre-Referendum levels of distrust for the EU. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/28/brexit-contagion-uk-vote-raises-fears-of-a-tsunami-of-eu-members/ I'd hardly call that bad. Quite good in fact. Fairly irrelevant how many parties are calling for referendums, what matters is their size. So in the 8 big countries only 33% would vote to leave? Hardly that worrying. " What did the polls in the UK say 12 months ago? | |||
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" What current sentiment? If that was irony I apologise but I suspect you are in denial.... "A survey published on Monday by the European Council on Foreign Relations (ECFR) found that these parties are currently calling for a total of 33 popular referendums in the coming year." "A recent survey by the Pew Research Centre found that only 38 per cent of France had a favourable view of the EU, marking an astonishing negative shift in attitudes towards Brussels since the 2009 financial crisis that has been mirrored to varying degrees all across Europe." "A poll last month by Ipsos-MORI found that nearly half of voters in eight big European Union countries want to be able to vote on whether to remain members of the bloc, with a third saying they would opt to leave, if given the choice." Its all in here and the rest of the article indicates that Holland, France and Italy are all near or above the UK's pre-Referendum levels of distrust for the EU. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/28/brexit-contagion-uk-vote-raises-fears-of-a-tsunami-of-eu-members/ I'd hardly call that bad. Quite good in fact. Fairly irrelevant how many parties are calling for referendums, what matters is their size. So in the 8 big countries only 33% would vote to leave? Hardly that worrying. What did the polls in the UK say 12 months ago?" just looked it up. 35% leave. Hardly worrying? | |||
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" What current sentiment? If that was irony I apologise but I suspect you are in denial.... "A survey published on Monday by the European Council on Foreign Relations (ECFR) found that these parties are currently calling for a total of 33 popular referendums in the coming year." "A recent survey by the Pew Research Centre found that only 38 per cent of France had a favourable view of the EU, marking an astonishing negative shift in attitudes towards Brussels since the 2009 financial crisis that has been mirrored to varying degrees all across Europe." "A poll last month by Ipsos-MORI found that nearly half of voters in eight big European Union countries want to be able to vote on whether to remain members of the bloc, with a third saying they would opt to leave, if given the choice." Its all in here and the rest of the article indicates that Holland, France and Italy are all near or above the UK's pre-Referendum levels of distrust for the EU. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/28/brexit-contagion-uk-vote-raises-fears-of-a-tsunami-of-eu-members/ I'd hardly call that bad. Quite good in fact. Fairly irrelevant how many parties are calling for referendums, what matters is their size. So in the 8 big countries only 33% would vote to leave? Hardly that worrying. What did the polls in the UK say 12 months ago? just looked it up. 35% leave. Hardly worrying?" We dint need others to leave to do a Norway deal fear not the good times will be back | |||
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" And I reiterate... Is it really worth fucking off £227 billion worth of exports and 4,500,000 people because we dont want any more Spanish waiters?? " I am sorry a rational presentation of the facts from independent sources that were quoted to you has not persuaded you to leave the stupid comments, change your incorrect numbers and pathetic reasons why people like me voted to Leave. | |||
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" And I reiterate... Is it really worth fucking off £227 billion worth of exports and 4,500,000 people because we dont want any more Spanish waiters?? " Kay???? . . ahhh Ceeeeeeee | |||
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" And I reiterate... Is it really worth fucking off £227 billion worth of exports and 4,500,000 people because we dont want any more Spanish waiters?? I am sorry a rational presentation of the facts from independent sources that were quoted to you has not persuaded you to leave the stupid comments, change your incorrect numbers and pathetic reasons why people like me voted to Leave. " thought you voted leave because you weren't careful enough to work our you were being lied to !!!! | |||
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" And I reiterate... Is it really worth fucking off £227 billion worth of exports and 4,500,000 people because we dont want any more Spanish waiters?? I am sorry a rational presentation of the facts from independent sources that were quoted to you has not persuaded you to leave the stupid comments, change your incorrect numbers and pathetic reasons why people like me voted to Leave. thought you voted leave because you weren't careful enough to work our you were being lied to !!!!" | |||
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" And I reiterate... Is it really worth fucking off £227 billion worth of exports and 4,500,000 people because we dont want any more Spanish waiters?? I am sorry a rational presentation of the facts from independent sources that were quoted to you has not persuaded you to leave the stupid comments, change your incorrect numbers and pathetic reasons why people like me voted to Leave. " Go to fullfact.org - that is where the figures came from. I thought it was 3,500,000 but according to govt research it is more like 4,500,000. You were adamant I chjeck my figures, so I did. Now why dont you? Either way if you call it 2,000,000 or 3,000,000 or 4,000,000 it a lot of people - a lot of wages and a lot of tax. Not to mention the UNDISPUTED £227 billion worth of exports to the EU - what about the employer generated taxes on that - is that equally dismissable? | |||
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" I said yesterday that that statement wasn't worth the paper it was written on and its true. It was just rushed into posturing. Why do you follow these people? Why do I follow these people? I don’t follow them, but I do believe them. This isn’t something that they have said behind closed doors to one person and we are hearing it second or third hand. These are the Heads of State of 27 countries making a public statement! They are going to look like idiots if they then go back on their word, they individually, and the EU collectively would lose political credibility if they did a U turn on this issue. Why would they do that? If they were so desperate to keep us, then they would have let Cameron negotiate on free movement of Labour before the referendum. believe them then. They don't have any credibility to lose What do you mean they don’t have any credibility to lose? They have been credible enough to become the head of state in their own countries haven’t they? At least some of them want to continue to be head of state, to do that, they will need to remain to be credible won’t they?" You think Jean Claude Juncker is credible? He has a long and detailed history of helping and facilitating tax avoidance/evasion for big multi national companies in his home country of Luxembourg when he was Prime Minister there. It's very easy to find all about this with a quick search on Google. Personally I'm very glad we won't be having anything more to do with this corrupt moron when we leave. | |||
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"I said yesterday that that statement wasn't worth the paper it was written on and its true. It was just rushed into posturing. Why do you follow these people? Why do I follow these people? I don’t follow them, but I do believe them. This isn’t something that they have said behind closed doors to one person and we are hearing it second or third hand. These are the Heads of State of 27 countries making a public statement! They are going to look like idiots if they then go back on their word, they individually, and the EU collectively would lose political credibility if they did a U turn on this issue. Why would they do that? If they were so desperate to keep us, then they would have let Cameron negotiate on free movement of Labour before the referendum. believe them then. They don't have any credibility to lose What do you mean they don’t have any credibility to lose? They have been credible enough to become the head of state in their own countries haven’t they? At least some of them want to continue to be head of state, to do that, they will need to remain to be credible won’t they?" You think Jean Claude Juncker is credible? He has a long and detailed history of helping and facilitating tax avoidance/evasion for big multi national companies in his home country of Luxembourg when he was Prime Minister there. It's very easy to find all about this with a quick search on Google. Personally I'm very glad we won't be having anything more to do with this corrupt moron when we leave." Shhh! | |||
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