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£350m for the NHS
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"When we leave the EU, should we insist that an extra £350m per week is given to the NHS? " Well we could if anybody had actually said that they would do that but seeming as the leave campaign only ever said they could do that we won't be able to | |||
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"When we leave the EU, should we insist that an extra £350m per week is given to the NHS? " Who are you going to insist to? Didn't you see all the brexit politicians piss off after the result came in | |||
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"When we leave the EU, should we insist that an extra £350m per week is given to the NHS? " We know that this is not going to happen and we also know that Devon, Cornwall, Wales and north will not get the funding it currently gets and we know that the £13 billion EU post grad and scientific funding grants to UK universities will also evaporate. What should happen is that when the full terms of the EU exit are agreed Farage, Gove, Johnson and the others should come back on TV and either face their failures or - be applauded for their courage if that is how it turns out. Somehow, I still agree with the sentiment issued by virtually every credible economic forecaster from before the referendum and I foresee a declining economy, more austerity, higher taxes and a significant brain drain where the brightest and most talented seek wider opportunities elsewhere. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"When we leave the EU, should we insist that an extra £350m per week is given to the NHS? Who are you going to insist to? Didn't you see all the brexit politicians piss off after the result came in" Guess you haven't been watching the news over the past week | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"When we leave the EU, should we insist that an extra £350m per week is given to the NHS? We know that this is not going to happen and we also know that Devon, Cornwall, Wales and north will not get the funding it currently gets and we know that the £13 billion EU post grad and scientific funding grants to UK universities will also evaporate. What should happen is that when the full terms of the EU exit are agreed Farage, Gove, Johnson and the others should come back on TV and either face their failures or - be applauded for their courage if that is how it turns out. Somehow, I still agree with the sentiment issued by virtually every credible economic forecaster from before the referendum and I foresee a declining economy, more austerity, higher taxes and a significant brain drain where the brightest and most talented seek wider opportunities elsewhere." Somehow; I suspect you will be proven wrong what flavour of sauce would you like on your words? | |||
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"When we leave the EU, should we insist that an extra £350m per week is given to the NHS? Who are you going to insist to? Didn't you see all the brexit politicians piss off after the result came in Guess you haven't been watching the news over the past week" Really, Boris is PM and Farage is riding high? | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"When we leave the EU, should we insist that an extra £350m per week is given to the NHS? Who are you going to insist to? Didn't you see all the brexit politicians piss off after the result came in Guess you haven't been watching the news over the past week Really, Boris is PM and Farage is riding high? " I think you will find Boris will make a good name for himself and do well for the UK, he hasn't been in his position a week and he is well in at the deep end with France & Turkey Try giving people a chance rather than being smug and putting people down | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"When we leave the EU, should we insist that an extra £350m per week is given to the NHS? Who are you going to insist to? Didn't you see all the brexit politicians piss off after the result came in Guess you haven't been watching the news over the past week Really, Boris is PM and Farage is riding high? I think you will find Boris will make a good name for himself and do well for the UK, he hasn't been in his position a week and he is well in at the deep end with France & Turkey Try giving people a chance rather than being smug and putting people down" So that's a "no they aren't better off since the vote" then, the PM campaigned to remain ffs!!@ | |||
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"When we leave the EU, should we insist that an extra £350m per week is given to the NHS? We know that this is not going to happen and we also know that Devon, Cornwall, Wales and north will not get the funding it currently gets and we know that the £13 billion EU post grad and scientific funding grants to UK universities will also evaporate. What should happen is that when the full terms of the EU exit are agreed Farage, Gove, Johnson and the others should come back on TV and either face their failures or - be applauded for their courage if that is how it turns out. Somehow, I still agree with the sentiment issued by virtually every credible economic forecaster from before the referendum and I foresee a declining economy, more austerity, higher taxes and a significant brain drain where the brightest and most talented seek wider opportunities elsewhere. Somehow; I suspect you will be proven wrong what flavour of sauce would you like on your words?" There were two options. 1) there is no plan but we can make Britain great again and it will be alright on the night. 2) Virtually every world leader, virtually every credible economist, every single EU political and legal expert, 90% of all business leaders and every academic institution in the UK forecast an economic downturn in the event of a UK Brexit - because the Brexit scenario is incompatible with any possible short to mid term economic upturn - absolutely the contrary. So, I went with option 2 and you went with option 1. I still think the weight of learned, experienced and academic opinion was right. You think Farage, Johnson, Gove and others supported by Trump, Putin and Marine Le Penn is right. No big deal. I just don't like being lied to. | |||
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"When we leave the EU, should we insist that an extra £350m per week is given to the NHS? Who are you going to insist to? Didn't you see all the brexit politicians piss off after the result came in" did they? Leadsum, Johnson, Fox, Davies, Grayling, Patel and others all in the top Cabinet jobs.... And 3 stood for the Tory Leadership but were eliminated by the MPs. Something the Labour party seem to be having a huge issue about... Sorry to burst your Remain bubble. | |||
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"When we leave the EU, should we insist that an extra £350m per week is given to the NHS? We know that this is not going to happen and we also know that Devon, Cornwall, Wales and north will not get the funding it currently gets and we know that the £13 billion EU post grad and scientific funding grants to UK universities will also evaporate. What should happen is that when the full terms of the EU exit are agreed Farage, Gove, Johnson and the others should come back on TV and either face their failures or - be applauded for their courage if that is how it turns out. Somehow, I still agree with the sentiment issued by virtually every credible economic forecaster from before the referendum and I foresee a declining economy, more austerity, higher taxes and a significant brain drain where the brightest and most talented seek wider opportunities elsewhere." Can't you Remainers just stop? You just trolled out the 'Project Fear' crap that the majority of those who voted rejected for what it was. You know NOTHING about what will or will not happen but rattle on like its written in stone. We haven't left the EU yet so what the hell is anyone to do yet? And for the record I didn't agree with using the £350 Mn figure although it was technically correct but I do know no one in Vote Leave said 'We Will' as it was not a General Election and we were not putting out a manifesto. We were offering options for what a Sovereign Nation could use that money for if it so chose. The literature actually said 'We Could'. And the Government has already committed to replacing all the CAP and CFP funding with UK funding... | |||
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"When we leave the EU, should we insist that an extra £350m per week is given to the NHS? Who are you going to insist to? Didn't you see all the brexit politicians piss off after the result came in did they? Leadsum, Johnson, Fox, Davies, Grayling, Patel and others all in the top Cabinet jobs.... And 3 stood for the Tory Leadership but were eliminated by the MPs. Something the Labour party seem to be having a huge issue about... Sorry to burst your Remain bubble. " All b team players at best | |||
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" I still think the weight of learned, experienced and academic opinion was right. You think Farage, Johnson, Gove and others supported by Trump, Putin and Marine Le Penn is right." Are you for real? Putin and lePenn were part of Vote Leave? Really? As it happens unlike that interfering Yank Obama Putin said absolutely nothing during the campaign. And if you want to go on about LePenn (again not that she said anything) how about Hollande threatening our country while our PM stood and smiled? You all OK with that then? "No big deal. I just don't like being lied to." You weren't lied to by Vote Leave. But we were lied to by the Government in that bloody leaflet that cost us £9 million. And we were lied to at every stage of Project Fear. But the British people saw through the lies and threats and scaremongering and poked two fingers up to your 'experts' and Establishment and the Elites behind them. IMF? Yeah the same people who share seats at the Euro table and destroy economies in Southern Europe. Oh and take money from the EU. Did ONE 'forecast' get put to the Office of Budget Responsibility for checking? No not ONE.... says it all. | |||
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"When we leave the EU, should we insist that an extra £350m per week is given to the NHS? Who are you going to insist to? Didn't you see all the brexit politicians piss off after the result came in did they? Leadsum, Johnson, Fox, Davies, Grayling, Patel and others all in the top Cabinet jobs.... And 3 stood for the Tory Leadership but were eliminated by the MPs. Something the Labour party seem to be having a huge issue about... Sorry to burst your Remain bubble. All b team players at best " Whatever. You said they pissed off. They didn't.  | |||
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" technically correct" Jesus wept, what age are you? I've only ever encountered teenage boys that would argue that they're technically correct. | |||
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"You weren't lied to by Vote Leave Are you fir real the leave campaign was nothing but lies Show us when ever we have paid 350 mil per week to the EU ? Show us what date turkey is joining the EU ...and the four other nations mentioned in the great brexit Lie" Lies.... Not lie. | |||
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"You weren't lied to by Vote Leave Are you fir real the leave campaign was nothing but lies Show us when ever we have paid 350 mil per week to the EU ? Show us what date turkey is joining the EU ...and the four other nations mentioned in the great brexit Lie" You were lied to by the Remain campaign. George Osborne said there would have to be an emergency budget if we did a Brexit and now Philip Hammond is the new chancellor of the exchequer and says an emergency budget is NOT needed. | |||
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"You weren't lied to by Vote Leave Are you fir real the leave campaign was nothing but lies Show us when ever we have paid 350 mil per week to the EU ? Show us what date turkey is joining the EU ...and the four other nations mentioned in the great brexit Lie Lies.... Not lie." My apologies great brexit lies | |||
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"You weren't lied to by Vote Leave Are you fir real the leave campaign was nothing but lies Show us when ever we have paid 350 mil per week to the EU ? Show us what date turkey is joining the EU ...and the four other nations mentioned in the great brexit Lie You were lied to by the Remain campaign. George Osborne said there would have to be an emergency budget if we did a Brexit and now Philip Hammond is the new chancellor of the exchequer and says an emergency budget is NOT needed. " No because budgetary priorities have had to change since the referendum ..the UK 's debts can now go up unabated . | |||
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"When we leave the EU, should we insist that an extra £350m per week is given to the NHS? Who are you going to insist to? Didn't you see all the brexit politicians piss off after the result came in Guess you haven't been watching the news over the past week Really, Boris is PM and Farage is riding high? I think you will find Boris will make a good name for himself and do well for the UK, he hasn't been in his position a week and he is well in at the deep end with France & Turkey Try giving people a chance rather than being smug and putting people down So that's a "no they aren't better off since the vote" then, the PM campaigned to remain ffs!!@" Theresa May did one speech for Remain and then went and hid herself away. She was more invisible than Jeremy Corbyn during the Remain campaign, lol. 
Theresa May is a eurosceptic and has been for years......just like Jeremy Corbyn.
Brexiters have not disappeared, Boris Johnson is the Foreign secretary, Liam Fox is international business development secretary, and David Davis is Brexit secretary. There are other Tory MP's in the cabinet who also campaigned for Leave. | |||
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"You weren't lied to by Vote Leave Are you fir real the leave campaign was nothing but lies Show us when ever we have paid 350 mil per week to the EU ? Show us what date turkey is joining the EU ...and the four other nations mentioned in the great brexit Lie You were lied to by the Remain campaign. George Osborne said there would have to be an emergency budget if we did a Brexit and now Philip Hammond is the new chancellor of the exchequer and says an emergency budget is NOT needed. No because budgetary priorities have had to change since the referendum ..the UK 's debts can now go up unabated ." So you can file the emergency budget with the other fairy stories Osborne came out with then. | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"You weren't lied to by Vote Leave Are you fir real the leave campaign was nothing but lies Show us when ever we have paid 350 mil per week to the EU ? Show us what date turkey is joining the EU ...and the four other nations mentioned in the great brexit Lie You were lied to by the Remain campaign. George Osborne said there would have to be an emergency budget if we did a Brexit and now Philip Hammond is the new chancellor of the exchequer and says an emergency budget is NOT needed. No because budgetary priorities have had to change since the referendum ..the UK 's debts can now go up unabated . So you can file the emergency budget with the other fairy stories Osborne came out with then. "The the fairytale was Turkish immigration upon joining the EU .for which you still haven't provided a date .But the real jackanory was the 350 million per week .. ..oh and soon it will be bojo's there wont be a recession comment .. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"When we leave the EU, should we insist that an extra £350m per week is given to the NHS? We know that this is not going to happen and we also know that Devon, Cornwall, Wales and north will not get the funding it currently gets and we know that the £13 billion EU post grad and scientific funding grants to UK universities will also evaporate. What should happen is that when the full terms of the EU exit are agreed Farage, Gove, Johnson and the others should come back on TV and either face their failures or - be applauded for their courage if that is how it turns out. Somehow, I still agree with the sentiment issued by virtually every credible economic forecaster from before the referendum and I foresee a declining economy, more austerity, higher taxes and a significant brain drain where the brightest and most talented seek wider opportunities elsewhere." I disagree, we will be better off now doing better trade deals globally, with the high growth economies in the world, no longer tied to a declining and stagnating EU. London will continue to be a major financial centre in the world and Britain will continue to attract the best and brightest people to come and live and work here from everywhere on the globe (not just any Tom, Dick or Harry from the EU coming here just because they posses an EU passport). | |||
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"You will never see the 350mil to the nhs, it was all a lie, farage said he couldn't "guarantee" more money would go to the NHS. This was after a brexit campaign where farage repeatedly claimed the UK was giving the EU £350 million each week – cash he said would be better spent elsewhere." That is completely false, Farage was never part of the official vote Leave campaign! Farage never used the 350 million per week figure, because the 350 million per week figure was an official vote Leave slogan. Farage never joined vote Leave, he was part of the Leave.EU campaign and the Grassroots out campaign. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"When we leave the EU, should we insist that an extra £350m per week is given to the NHS? We know that this is not going to happen and we also know that Devon, Cornwall, Wales and north will not get the funding it currently gets and we know that the £13 billion EU post grad and scientific funding grants to UK universities will also evaporate. What should happen is that when the full terms of the EU exit are agreed Farage, Gove, Johnson and the others should come back on TV and either face their failures or - be applauded for their courage if that is how it turns out. Somehow, I still agree with the sentiment issued by virtually every credible economic forecaster from before the referendum and I foresee a declining economy, more austerity, higher taxes and a significant brain drain where the brightest and most talented seek wider opportunities elsewhere. I disagree, we will be better off now doing better trade deals globally, with the high growth economies in the world, no longer tied to a declining and stagnating EU. London will continue to be a major financial centre in the world and Britain will continue to attract the best and brightest people to come and live and work here from everywhere on the globe (not just any Tom, Dick or Harry from the EU coming here just because they posses an EU passport). " Any further trade deals globally will only produce the same results as the UK china deal ..3 times more imports than exports further killing British industry ...attract bright people you're having a laugh back to the brain drain of the 70's will be more like reality | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"You weren't lied to by Vote Leave Are you fir real the leave campaign was nothing but lies Show us when ever we have paid 350 mil per week to the EU ? Show us what date turkey is joining the EU ...and the four other nations mentioned in the great brexit Lie You were lied to by the Remain campaign. George Osborne said there would have to be an emergency budget if we did a Brexit and now Philip Hammond is the new chancellor of the exchequer and says an emergency budget is NOT needed. No because budgetary priorities have had to change since the referendum ..the UK 's debts can now go up unabated . So you can file the emergency budget with the other fairy stories Osborne came out with then.
The the fairytale was Turkish immigration upon joining the EU .for which you still haven't provided a date .But the real jackanory was the 350 million per week .. ..oh and soon it will be bojo's there wont be a recession comment .."I seem to recall it was you who posted on this very forum just days after the referendum result, when someone said the EU can no longer boast it has a market of 500 million people , because Britain is leaving the EU now only has a market of 435 million people, YOU said it will go back up to 500 million again when Turkey join. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"You weren't lied to by Vote Leave Are you fir real the leave campaign was nothing but lies Show us when ever we have paid 350 mil per week to the EU ? Show us what date turkey is joining the EU ...and the four other nations mentioned in the great brexit Lie You were lied to by the Remain campaign. George Osborne said there would have to be an emergency budget if we did a Brexit and now Philip Hammond is the new chancellor of the exchequer and says an emergency budget is NOT needed. No because budgetary priorities have had to change since the referendum ..the UK 's debts can now go up unabated . So you can file the emergency budget with the other fairy stories Osborne came out with then.
The the fairytale was Turkish immigration upon joining the EU .for which you still haven't provided a date .But the real jackanory was the 350 million per week .. ..oh and soon it will be bojo's there wont be a recession comment ..
I seem to recall it was you who posted on this very forum just days after the referendum result, when someone said the EU can no longer boast it has a market of 500 million people , because Britain is leaving the EU now only has a market of 435 million people, YOU said it will go back up to 500 million again when Turkey join."Selective memory you have for weeks you banged on about the 5 nations about to join the EU turkey being at the top of your list ... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"When we leave the EU, should we insist that an extra £350m per week is given to the NHS? We know that this is not going to happen and we also know that Devon, Cornwall, Wales and north will not get the funding it currently gets and we know that the £13 billion EU post grad and scientific funding grants to UK universities will also evaporate. What should happen is that when the full terms of the EU exit are agreed Farage, Gove, Johnson and the others should come back on TV and either face their failures or - be applauded for their courage if that is how it turns out. Somehow, I still agree with the sentiment issued by virtually every credible economic forecaster from before the referendum and I foresee a declining economy, more austerity, higher taxes and a significant brain drain where the brightest and most talented seek wider opportunities elsewhere. I disagree, we will be better off now doing better trade deals globally, with the high growth economies in the world, no longer tied to a declining and stagnating EU. London will continue to be a major financial centre in the world and Britain will continue to attract the best and brightest people to come and live and work here from everywhere on the globe (not just any Tom, Dick or Harry from the EU coming here just because they posses an EU passport). Any further trade deals globally will only produce the same results as the UK china deal ..3 times more imports than exports further killing British industry ...attract bright people you're having a laugh back to the brain drain of the 70's will be more like reality " What wrong with importing cheap stuff? Do you seriously wish there were more brain dead production line jobs in this country? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"You weren't lied to by Vote Leave Are you fir real the leave campaign was nothing but lies Show us when ever we have paid 350 mil per week to the EU ? Show us what date turkey is joining the EU ...and the four other nations mentioned in the great brexit Lie You were lied to by the Remain campaign. George Osborne said there would have to be an emergency budget if we did a Brexit and now Philip Hammond is the new chancellor of the exchequer and says an emergency budget is NOT needed. No because budgetary priorities have had to change since the referendum ..the UK 's debts can now go up unabated . So you can file the emergency budget with the other fairy stories Osborne came out with then.
The the fairytale was Turkish immigration upon joining the EU .for which you still haven't provided a date .But the real jackanory was the 350 million per week .. ..oh and soon it will be bojo's there wont be a recession comment ..
I seem to recall it was you who posted on this very forum just days after the referendum result, when someone said the EU can no longer boast it has a market of 500 million people , because Britain is leaving the EU now only has a market of 435 million people, YOU said it will go back up to 500 million again when Turkey join.
Selective memory you have for weeks you banged on about the 5 nations about to join the EU turkey being at the top of your list ..."For weeks before the referendum you said Turkey would never join the EU, then just days after the result you were saying Turkey will join so the EU can get its market of 500 million people again. Unbelievable, you really need to make up your mind. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"When we leave the EU, should we insist that an extra £350m per week is given to the NHS? We know that this is not going to happen and we also know that Devon, Cornwall, Wales and north will not get the funding it currently gets and we know that the £13 billion EU post grad and scientific funding grants to UK universities will also evaporate. What should happen is that when the full terms of the EU exit are agreed Farage, Gove, Johnson and the others should come back on TV and either face their failures or - be applauded for their courage if that is how it turns out. Somehow, I still agree with the sentiment issued by virtually every credible economic forecaster from before the referendum and I foresee a declining economy, more austerity, higher taxes and a significant brain drain where the brightest and most talented seek wider opportunities elsewhere. I disagree, we will be better off now doing better trade deals globally, with the high growth economies in the world, no longer tied to a declining and stagnating EU. London will continue to be a major financial centre in the world and Britain will continue to attract the best and brightest people to come and live and work here from everywhere on the globe (not just any Tom, Dick or Harry from the EU coming here just because they posses an EU passport). Any further trade deals globally will only produce the same results as the UK china deal ..3 times more imports than exports further killing British industry ...attract bright people you're having a laugh back to the brain drain of the 70's will be more like reality What wrong with importing cheap stuff? Do you seriously wish there were more brain dead production line jobs in this country? " It killed the motorbike industry the car industry the textile industry hasn't done the electronics industry any favours . What's left banking ? To go ..then British can truly be a nation of shopkeepers.. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"You weren't lied to by Vote Leave Are you fir real the leave campaign was nothing but lies Show us when ever we have paid 350 mil per week to the EU ? Show us what date turkey is joining the EU ...and the four other nations mentioned in the great brexit Lie You were lied to by the Remain campaign. George Osborne said there would have to be an emergency budget if we did a Brexit and now Philip Hammond is the new chancellor of the exchequer and says an emergency budget is NOT needed. No because budgetary priorities have had to change since the referendum ..the UK 's debts can now go up unabated . So you can file the emergency budget with the other fairy stories Osborne came out with then.
The the fairytale was Turkish immigration upon joining the EU .for which you still haven't provided a date .But the real jackanory was the 350 million per week .. ..oh and soon it will be bojo's there wont be a recession comment ..
I seem to recall it was you who posted on this very forum just days after the referendum result, when someone said the EU can no longer boast it has a market of 500 million people , because Britain is leaving the EU now only has a market of 435 million people, YOU said it will go back up to 500 million again when Turkey join.
Selective memory you have for weeks you banged on about the 5 nations about to join the EU turkey being at the top of your list ...
For weeks before the referendum you said Turkey would never join the EU, then just days after the result you were saying Turkey will join so the EU can get its market of 500 million people again. Unbelievable, you really need to make up your mind. "For weeks you lied about 5 nations joining the EU turkey at the top and still you cannot admit your lies .. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"When we leave the EU, should we insist that an extra £350m per week is given to the NHS? We know that this is not going to happen and we also know that Devon, Cornwall, Wales and north will not get the funding it currently gets and we know that the £13 billion EU post grad and scientific funding grants to UK universities will also evaporate. What should happen is that when the full terms of the EU exit are agreed Farage, Gove, Johnson and the others should come back on TV and either face their failures or - be applauded for their courage if that is how it turns out. Somehow, I still agree with the sentiment issued by virtually every credible economic forecaster from before the referendum and I foresee a declining economy, more austerity, higher taxes and a significant brain drain where the brightest and most talented seek wider opportunities elsewhere. I disagree, we will be better off now doing better trade deals globally, with the high growth economies in the world, no longer tied to a declining and stagnating EU. London will continue to be a major financial centre in the world and Britain will continue to attract the best and brightest people to come and live and work here from everywhere on the globe (not just any Tom, Dick or Harry from the EU coming here just because they posses an EU passport). Any further trade deals globally will only produce the same results as the UK china deal ..3 times more imports than exports further killing British industry ...attract bright people you're having a laugh back to the brain drain of the 70's will be more like reality What wrong with importing cheap stuff? Do you seriously wish there were more brain dead production line jobs in this country? It killed the motorbike industry the car industry the textile industry hasn't done the electronics industry any favours . What's left banking ? To go ..then British can truly be a nation of shopkeepers.." Meanwhile in Spain where you live you can look forward to sky high unemployment figures thanks to Spain being a member of the EU. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"You weren't lied to by Vote Leave Are you fir real the leave campaign was nothing but lies Show us when ever we have paid 350 mil per week to the EU ? Show us what date turkey is joining the EU ...and the four other nations mentioned in the great brexit Lie You were lied to by the Remain campaign. George Osborne said there would have to be an emergency budget if we did a Brexit and now Philip Hammond is the new chancellor of the exchequer and says an emergency budget is NOT needed. No because budgetary priorities have had to change since the referendum ..the UK 's debts can now go up unabated . So you can file the emergency budget with the other fairy stories Osborne came out with then.
The the fairytale was Turkish immigration upon joining the EU .for which you still haven't provided a date .But the real jackanory was the 350 million per week .. ..oh and soon it will be bojo's there wont be a recession comment ..
I seem to recall it was you who posted on this very forum just days after the referendum result, when someone said the EU can no longer boast it has a market of 500 million people , because Britain is leaving the EU now only has a market of 435 million people, YOU said it will go back up to 500 million again when Turkey join.
Selective memory you have for weeks you banged on about the 5 nations about to join the EU turkey being at the top of your list ...
For weeks before the referendum you said Turkey would never join the EU, then just days after the result you were saying Turkey will join so the EU can get its market of 500 million people again. Unbelievable, you really need to make up your mind.
For weeks you lied about 5 nations joining the EU turkey at the top and still you cannot admit your lies .."What lies? The 5 countries may well join the EU I've never said otherwise, more importantly I really couldn't care less if they join because the UK is leaving and we won't be part of it.  | |||
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"When we leave the EU, should we insist that an extra £350m per week is given to the NHS? We know that this is not going to happen and we also know that Devon, Cornwall, Wales and north will not get the funding it currently gets and we know that the £13 billion EU post grad and scientific funding grants to UK universities will also evaporate. What should happen is that when the full terms of the EU exit are agreed Farage, Gove, Johnson and the others should come back on TV and either face their failures or - be applauded for their courage if that is how it turns out. Somehow, I still agree with the sentiment issued by virtually every credible economic forecaster from before the referendum and I foresee a declining economy, more austerity, higher taxes and a significant brain drain where the brightest and most talented seek wider opportunities elsewhere. I disagree, we will be better off now doing better trade deals globally, with the high growth economies in the world, no longer tied to a declining and stagnating EU. London will continue to be a major financial centre in the world and Britain will continue to attract the best and brightest people to come and live and work here from everywhere on the globe (not just any Tom, Dick or Harry from the EU coming here just because they posses an EU passport). Any further trade deals globally will only produce the same results as the UK china deal ..3 times more imports than exports further killing British industry ...attract bright people you're having a laugh back to the brain drain of the 70's will be more like reality What wrong with importing cheap stuff? Do you seriously wish there were more brain dead production line jobs in this country? It killed the motorbike industry the car industry the textile industry hasn't done the electronics industry any favours . What's left banking ? To go ..then British can truly be a nation of shopkeepers.. Meanwhile in Spain where you live you can look forward to sky high unemployment figures thanks to Spain being a member of the EU. " Easy to find work here .. it found both of us .but that what happens as we live our lives not just rely on reading about them ..maybe when you gain more experience in real life you will understand but I doubt it | |||
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" More money for NHS unlikely cuts could be comming there way Staffing levels within the NHS will have to be cut if the government wants to bring NHS finances in England under control, the King's Fund think tank has said. It says the government should be honest about NHS spending plans at a time when patient demand is rising. It comes days before a major initiative by the NHS to control spending http://www.bbc.com/news/health-36760985" Government and honesty in the same sentence | |||
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"When we leave the EU, should we insist that an extra £350m per week is given to the NHS? Who are you going to insist to? Didn't you see all the brexit politicians piss off after the result came in Guess you haven't been watching the news over the past week Really, Boris is PM and Farage is riding high? I think you will find Boris will make a good name for himself and do well for the UK, he hasn't been in his position a week and he is well in at the deep end with France & Turkey Try giving people a chance rather than being smug and putting people down" Thing is though that when it was announced that he had been given the post, all the idiotic incidents involving him abroad where shown and is seen as a clown so I am not holding out any hope | |||
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" More money for NHS unlikely cuts could be comming there way Staffing levels within the NHS will have to be cut if the government wants to bring NHS finances in England under control, the King's Fund think tank has said. It says the government should be honest about NHS spending plans at a time when patient demand is rising. It comes days before a major initiative by the NHS to control spending http://www.bbc.com/news/health-36760985 Government and honesty in the same sentence " Ok I apologise shouldn't have put both in same sentence or paragraph.. | |||
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" technically correct Jesus wept, what age are you? I've only ever encountered teenage boys that would argue that they're technically correct. " Oh here we go.. make it bloody personal. I am somewhat older than a teenage boy and I fought for years for Brexit. I worked with Vote Leave before it WAS Vote Leave. So do not lecture ME on what I or they said or knew. I said to everyone that we should not use the £350 Mn figure precisely because of the shit the Remainers were putting out. Now. You want what 'technically' means? From 2010 to 2015 the average GROSS cost per year we had to budget for was £16.9 Bn or £325 Mn a week. In 2014 it was £19.2 Bn or £369 Mn a week. In those years the average REBATE was £3.8 Bn or £73 Mn a week. In 2014 it was £4.8 Bn or £94 Mn a week. In those years the average NETT payment to the EU was £13.2 Bn or £254 Mn a week. In 2014 it was £14.4 Bn or £277 Mn a week. The EU levies a charge on the UK based on GDP, VAT payments and other factors totalling above. We currently have a rebate which varies but is about 12%. It was 20% but Blair gave about 8% away. That rebate is reviewed every 7 years and the next is in 2020. The EU wants to remove that rebate as do 27 other countries. It is NOT permanent. It is NOT written into treaties and CAN be removed. In theory we have a veto but what good was that when Blair was in charge? And the EU CAN change all matters to QMV. So it is complex and it is variable and it for THOSE reasons I think we should not have used it not because it was inaccurate. So the UK HAS to budget the GROSS amount. When someone asks you what salary you get do you give them the Gross or Nett after tax amounts? So the average amount is £325 Mn a week. The highest is £369 Mn a week. That £350 Mn is technically and factually correct and not far away from the £277 Mn nett figure. And please don't bring in what 'the EU spends in the UK' because that is our money being recycled. | |||
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"You will never see the 350mil to the nhs, it was all a lie, farage said he couldn't "guarantee" more money would go to the NHS. This was after a brexit campaign where farage repeatedly claimed the UK was giving the EU £350 million each week – cash he said would be better spent elsewhere. That is completely false, Farage was never part of the official vote Leave campaign! Farage never used the 350 million per week figure, because the 350 million per week figure was an official vote Leave slogan. Farage never joined vote Leave, he was part of the Leave.EU campaign and the Grassroots out campaign. " Absolutely correct. But you are making the mistake of thinking the Remainers can argue factually and honestly. To them Farage is evil beyond belief and so must have told every lie under the sun. Except his predictions for the last 20 years have actually proved correct. A post in another Thread had Farage listed with Trump, Putin and LePenn... | |||
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" More money for NHS unlikely cuts could be comming there way Staffing levels within the NHS will have to be cut if the government wants to bring NHS finances in England under control, the King's Fund think tank has said. It says the government should be honest about NHS spending plans at a time when patient demand is rising. It comes days before a major initiative by the NHS to control spending http://www.bbc.com/news/health-36760985 Government and honesty in the same sentence Ok I apologise shouldn't have put both in same sentence or paragraph.." Voters buy bullshit so politicians sell it to them! | |||
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" More money for NHS unlikely cuts could be comming there way Staffing levels within the NHS will have to be cut if the government wants to bring NHS finances in England under control, the King's Fund think tank has said. It says the government should be honest about NHS spending plans at a time when patient demand is rising. It comes days before a major initiative by the NHS to control spending http://www.bbc.com/news/health-36760985 Government and honesty in the same sentence Ok I apologise shouldn't have put both in same sentence or paragraph.. Voters buy bullshit so politicians sell it to them!" Are you a voter? | |||
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" technically correct Jesus wept, what age are you? I've only ever encountered teenage boys that would argue that they're technically correct. Oh here we go.. make it bloody personal. I am somewhat older than a teenage boy and I fought for years for Brexit. I worked with Vote Leave before it WAS Vote Leave. So do not lecture ME on what I or they said or knew. I said to everyone that we should not use the £350 Mn figure precisely because of the shit the Remainers were putting out. Now. You want what 'technically' means? From 2010 to 2015 the average GROSS cost per year we had to budget for was £16.9 Bn or £325 Mn a week. In 2014 it was £19.2 Bn or £369 Mn a week. In those years the average REBATE was £3.8 Bn or £73 Mn a week. In 2014 it was £4.8 Bn or £94 Mn a week. In those years the average NETT payment to the EU was £13.2 Bn or £254 Mn a week. In 2014 it was £14.4 Bn or £277 Mn a week. The EU levies a charge on the UK based on GDP, VAT payments and other factors totalling above. We currently have a rebate which varies but is about 12%. It was 20% but Blair gave about 8% away. That rebate is reviewed every 7 years and the next is in 2020. The EU wants to remove that rebate as do 27 other countries. It is NOT permanent. It is NOT written into treaties and CAN be removed. In theory we have a veto but what good was that when Blair was in charge? And the EU CAN change all matters to QMV. So it is complex and it is variable and it for THOSE reasons I think we should not have used it not because it was inaccurate. So the UK HAS to budget the GROSS amount. When someone asks you what salary you get do you give them the Gross or Nett after tax amounts? So the average amount is £325 Mn a week. The highest is £369 Mn a week. That £350 Mn is technically and factually correct and not far away from the £277 Mn nett figure. And please don't bring in what 'the EU spends in the UK' because that is our money being recycled." Farage did use the 350,lie ..and its bullshit you cannot spend that on the NHS we never pay that amount just the same as you cant spend your gross wage pathetic excuse for blatantly lying.. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-nigel-farage-nhs-350-million-pounds-live-health-service-u-turn-a7102831.html  | |||
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" More money for NHS unlikely cuts could be comming there way Staffing levels within the NHS will have to be cut if the government wants to bring NHS finances in England under control, the King's Fund think tank has said. It says the government should be honest about NHS spending plans at a time when patient demand is rising. It comes days before a major initiative by the NHS to control spending http://www.bbc.com/news/health-36760985 Government and honesty in the same sentence Ok I apologise shouldn't have put both in same sentence or paragraph.. Voters buy bullshit so politicians sell it to them! Are you a voter?" Didn't buy the brexit bullshit no .. | |||
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" More money for NHS unlikely cuts could be comming there way Staffing levels within the NHS will have to be cut if the government wants to bring NHS finances in England under control, the King's Fund think tank has said. It says the government should be honest about NHS spending plans at a time when patient demand is rising. It comes days before a major initiative by the NHS to control spending http://www.bbc.com/news/health-36760985 Government and honesty in the same sentence Ok I apologise shouldn't have put both in same sentence or paragraph.. Voters buy bullshit so politicians sell it to them! Are you a voter?" Apologies, I'll rephrase: "Enough voters to decide an election buy bullshit so politicians sell it to them!" Hope that satisfies you | |||
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" More money for NHS unlikely cuts could be comming there way Staffing levels within the NHS will have to be cut if the government wants to bring NHS finances in England under control, the King's Fund think tank has said. It says the government should be honest about NHS spending plans at a time when patient demand is rising. It comes days before a major initiative by the NHS to control spending http://www.bbc.com/news/health-36760985 Government and honesty in the same sentence Ok I apologise shouldn't have put both in same sentence or paragraph.. Voters buy bullshit so politicians sell it to them! Are you a voter? Didn't buy the brexit bullshit no .." Neither did I and that wasn't the question. But you did buy the remain bullshit. | |||
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" More money for NHS unlikely cuts could be comming there way Staffing levels within the NHS will have to be cut if the government wants to bring NHS finances in England under control, the King's Fund think tank has said. It says the government should be honest about NHS spending plans at a time when patient demand is rising. It comes days before a major initiative by the NHS to control spending http://www.bbc.com/news/health-36760985 Government and honesty in the same sentence Ok I apologise shouldn't have put both in same sentence or paragraph.. Voters buy bullshit so politicians sell it to them! Are you a voter? Didn't buy the brexit bullshit no .. Neither did I and that wasn't the question. But you did buy the remain bullshit." Voted remain ..would never vote for change until it is known what the change is ..as I have said before out could quite easily be a Norway type deal | |||
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" technically correct Jesus wept, what age are you? I've only ever encountered teenage boys that would argue that they're technically correct. Oh here we go.. make it bloody personal. I am somewhat older than a teenage boy and I fought for years for Brexit. I worked with Vote Leave before it WAS Vote Leave. So do not lecture ME on what I or they said or knew. I said to everyone that we should not use the £350 Mn figure precisely because of the shit the Remainers were putting out. Now. You want what 'technically' means? From 2010 to 2015 the average GROSS cost per year we had to budget for was £16.9 Bn or £325 Mn a week. In 2014 it was £19.2 Bn or £369 Mn a week. In those years the average REBATE was £3.8 Bn or £73 Mn a week. In 2014 it was £4.8 Bn or £94 Mn a week. In those years the average NETT payment to the EU was £13.2 Bn or £254 Mn a week. In 2014 it was £14.4 Bn or £277 Mn a week. The EU levies a charge on the UK based on GDP, VAT payments and other factors totalling above. We currently have a rebate which varies but is about 12%. It was 20% but Blair gave about 8% away. That rebate is reviewed every 7 years and the next is in 2020. The EU wants to remove that rebate as do 27 other countries. It is NOT permanent. It is NOT written into treaties and CAN be removed. In theory we have a veto but what good was that when Blair was in charge? And the EU CAN change all matters to QMV. So it is complex and it is variable and it for THOSE reasons I think we should not have used it not because it was inaccurate. So the UK HAS to budget the GROSS amount. When someone asks you what salary you get do you give them the Gross or Nett after tax amounts? So the average amount is £325 Mn a week. The highest is £369 Mn a week. That £350 Mn is technically and factually correct and not far away from the £277 Mn nett figure. And please don't bring in what 'the EU spends in the UK' because that is our money being recycled. Farage did use the 350,lie ..and its bullshit you cannot spend that on the NHS we never pay that amount just the same as you cant spend your gross wage pathetic excuse for blatantly lying.. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-nigel-farage-nhs-350-million-pounds-live-health-service-u-turn-a7102831.html "Well well well ... your attention span is clearly too short because he clearly says what the gross amount is and what the nett figure is and says 'That should be spent here'. I guess you forgot to wait for the BBC film clip to fire up ... He never actually said '£350 Mn a week should be spent on the NHS'. Ooops | |||
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" technically correct Jesus wept, what age are you? I've only ever encountered teenage boys that would argue that they're technically correct. Oh here we go.. make it bloody personal. I am somewhat older than a teenage boy and I fought for years for Brexit. I worked with Vote Leave before it WAS Vote Leave. So do not lecture ME on what I or they said or knew. I said to everyone that we should not use the £350 Mn figure precisely because of the shit the Remainers were putting out. Now. You want what 'technically' means? From 2010 to 2015 the average GROSS cost per year we had to budget for was £16.9 Bn or £325 Mn a week. In 2014 it was £19.2 Bn or £369 Mn a week. In those years the average REBATE was £3.8 Bn or £73 Mn a week. In 2014 it was £4.8 Bn or £94 Mn a week. In those years the average NETT payment to the EU was £13.2 Bn or £254 Mn a week. In 2014 it was £14.4 Bn or £277 Mn a week. The EU levies a charge on the UK based on GDP, VAT payments and other factors totalling above. We currently have a rebate which varies but is about 12%. It was 20% but Blair gave about 8% away. That rebate is reviewed every 7 years and the next is in 2020. The EU wants to remove that rebate as do 27 other countries. It is NOT permanent. It is NOT written into treaties and CAN be removed. In theory we have a veto but what good was that when Blair was in charge? And the EU CAN change all matters to QMV. So it is complex and it is variable and it for THOSE reasons I think we should not have used it not because it was inaccurate. So the UK HAS to budget the GROSS amount. When someone asks you what salary you get do you give them the Gross or Nett after tax amounts? So the average amount is £325 Mn a week. The highest is £369 Mn a week. That £350 Mn is technically and factually correct and not far away from the £277 Mn nett figure. And please don't bring in what 'the EU spends in the UK' because that is our money being recycled." So remind me which figure the painted on the bus? | |||
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"You will never see the 350mil to the nhs, it was all a lie, farage said he couldn't "guarantee" more money would go to the NHS. This was after a brexit campaign where farage repeatedly claimed the UK was giving the EU £350 million each week – cash he said would be better spent elsewhere. That is completely false, Farage was never part of the official vote Leave campaign! Farage never used the 350 million per week figure, because the 350 million per week figure was an official vote Leave slogan. Farage never joined vote Leave, he was part of the Leave.EU campaign and the Grassroots out campaign. Absolutely correct. But you are making the mistake of thinking the Remainers can argue factually and honestly. To them Farage is evil beyond belief and so must have told every lie under the sun. Except his predictions for the last 20 years have actually proved correct. A post in another Thread had Farage listed with Trump, Putin and LePenn... "Yes. Unlike almost every other world and political leader, every commonwealth leader and every EU leader - Trump, Putin and Le Penn supported the Brexit campaign as promoted by Farage, Gove Johnson and the others. What is wrong with saying that? | |||
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"You know what folks? Both sides made exaggerated claims. On a brighter note, it looks like a deal with Australia is on the cards." The question isn't about if we will make trade deals around the world, of course we will. The question is when will these deals be negotiated, signed and started. | |||
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"You know what folks? Both sides made exaggerated claims. On a brighter note, it looks like a deal with Australia is on the cards." A deal with Australia (with whom we already have a trade deal anyway) which is geographically on the other side of the planet is truly a great step forward.... Transportation costs are of course irrelevant these days. Do we have a need for iron ore transported from the other side of the world? We already take their uranium ore and sugar but we don't use much coal thes days. I suppose if we stopped importing coal from Poland, we could bring it from Australia instead. | |||
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"You know what folks? Both sides made exaggerated claims. On a brighter note, it looks like a deal with Australia is on the cards. The question isn't about if we will make trade deals around the world, of course we will. The question is when will these deals be negotiated, signed and started." Quicker, I would imagine, than if we had stayed in the EU. But I don't pretend to have a crystal ball. It is great to see that trade deals are already on the cards. | |||
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"You know what folks? Both sides made exaggerated claims. On a brighter note, it looks like a deal with Australia is on the cards. The question isn't about if we will make trade deals around the world, of course we will. The question is when will these deals be negotiated, signed and started. Quicker, I would imagine, than if we had stayed in the EU. But I don't pretend to have a crystal ball. It is great to see that trade deals are already on the cards. " Why would it be quicker? The EU has 600 trade negotiators, we have about 20. Which is more attractive to trade with? One country or 28? The economy of the EU combined dwarfs that of the UK alone. | |||
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"You know what folks? Both sides made exaggerated claims. On a brighter note, it looks like a deal with Australia is on the cards. A deal with Australia (with whom we already have a trade deal anyway) which is geographically on the other side of the planet is truly a great step forward.... Transportation costs are of course irrelevant these days. Do we have a need for iron ore transported from the other side of the world? We already take their uranium ore and sugar but we don't use much coal thes days. I suppose if we stopped importing coal from Poland, we could bring it from Australia instead. " I haven't a clue what we export to Australia. But it appears that in 2013 we exported £10 billion pounds worth of goods and services there - so it is not an insignificant market, despite the distance. | |||
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"You know what folks? Both sides made exaggerated claims. On a brighter note, it looks like a deal with Australia is on the cards. The question isn't about if we will make trade deals around the world, of course we will. The question is when will these deals be negotiated, signed and started. Quicker, I would imagine, than if we had stayed in the EU. But I don't pretend to have a crystal ball. It is great to see that trade deals are already on the cards. Why would it be quicker? The EU has 600 trade negotiators, we have about 20. Which is more attractive to trade with? One country or 28? The economy of the EU combined dwarfs that of the UK alone." Well, at the moment our membership of the EU precludes making trade deals. Any trade deal has to meet the approval of all member states. I don't deny that the combined economy of the EU makes it an attractive trade partner. It would be silly to say otherwise. Don't talk the UK down, though. We are certainly worth trading with. | |||
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"You know what folks? Both sides made exaggerated claims. On a brighter note, it looks like a deal with Australia is on the cards. The question isn't about if we will make trade deals around the world, of course we will. The question is when will these deals be negotiated, signed and started. Quicker, I would imagine, than if we had stayed in the EU. But I don't pretend to have a crystal ball. It is great to see that trade deals are already on the cards. Why would it be quicker? The EU has 600 trade negotiators, we have about 20. Which is more attractive to trade with? One country or 28? The economy of the EU combined dwarfs that of the UK alone. Well, at the moment our membership of the EU precludes making trade deals. Any trade deal has to meet the approval of all member states. I don't deny that the combined economy of the EU makes it an attractive trade partner. It would be silly to say otherwise. Don't talk the UK down, though. We are certainly worth trading with." Im not talking the UK down or saying that no one wants to trade with us. I'm just saying that its going to take years until these deals come into place. The UK could be facing a decade or more of lost growth that will put the UK economy significantly behind where it could have been had we stayed in the EU. | |||
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" technically correct Jesus wept, what age are you? I've only ever encountered teenage boys that would argue that they're technically correct. Oh here we go.. make it bloody personal. I am somewhat older than a teenage boy and I fought for years for Brexit. I worked with Vote Leave before it WAS Vote Leave. So do not lecture ME on what I or they said or knew. I said to everyone that we should not use the £350 Mn figure precisely because of the shit the Remainers were putting out. Now. You want what 'technically' means? From 2010 to 2015 the average GROSS cost per year we had to budget for was £16.9 Bn or £325 Mn a week. In 2014 it was £19.2 Bn or £369 Mn a week. In those years the average REBATE was £3.8 Bn or £73 Mn a week. In 2014 it was £4.8 Bn or £94 Mn a week. In those years the average NETT payment to the EU was £13.2 Bn or £254 Mn a week. In 2014 it was £14.4 Bn or £277 Mn a week. The EU levies a charge on the UK based on GDP, VAT payments and other factors totalling above. We currently have a rebate which varies but is about 12%. It was 20% but Blair gave about 8% away. That rebate is reviewed every 7 years and the next is in 2020. The EU wants to remove that rebate as do 27 other countries. It is NOT permanent. It is NOT written into treaties and CAN be removed. In theory we have a veto but what good was that when Blair was in charge? And the EU CAN change all matters to QMV. So it is complex and it is variable and it for THOSE reasons I think we should not have used it not because it was inaccurate. So the UK HAS to budget the GROSS amount. When someone asks you what salary you get do you give them the Gross or Nett after tax amounts? So the average amount is £325 Mn a week. The highest is £369 Mn a week. That £350 Mn is technically and factually correct and not far away from the £277 Mn nett figure. And please don't bring in what 'the EU spends in the UK' because that is our money being recycled." Those figures grossly over estimate contributions and under estimate rebates seen on the ONS for the same period. The figures for 2015 are estimates so where you have generated those from can only be treated with as much suspicion as the figures you have already presented. http://visual.ons.gov.uk/uk-perspectives-2016-the-uk-contribution-to-the-eu-budget/ There is no doubt the leave campaign shouldn't have used the £350m pw figure. 1 for the above reason. That our contributions being lower than the figure being quoted, and as a result not as good a banner to pin to the bus. 2, as you know the £350m pw to pour back into the NHS is a stipulation. One like we are doing now are holding leavers to account on. Why shouldn't we? 3, a side note, it would have meant that the leave campaign would have had to agree with some form of expert opinion on.  | |||
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" Those figures grossly over estimate contributions and under estimate rebates seen on the ONS for the same period. The figures for 2015 are estimates so where you have generated those from can only be treated with as much suspicion as the figures you have already presented. http://visual.ons.gov.uk/uk-perspectives-2016-the-uk-contribution-to-the-eu-budget/ There is no doubt the leave campaign shouldn't have used the £350m pw figure. 1 for the above reason. That our contributions being lower than the figure being quoted, and as a result not as good a banner to pin to the bus. 2, as you know the £350m pw to pour back into the NHS is a stipulation. One like we are doing now are holding leavers to account on. Why shouldn't we? 3, a side note, it would have meant that the leave campaign would have had to agree with some form of expert opinion on. "Do you think maybe the problem with the NHS is that there are too many experts? These consultants with all their training, these so called "qualified" nurses, they dont come cheap you know. Why do these elites think that they know what's best for me? Sack the staff, leave the equipment and the drugs. If I need an appendix out I'm pretty sure I can figure it out on my own thank you very much. I don't need some uni boy telling me what to do. If I need to whip up a cocktail of drugs to fight of cancer I'm sure I can do it. I believe in myself, if I can mix a JD and it can't be that much harder. | |||
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"Those figures grossly over estimate contributions and under estimate rebates seen on the ONS for the same period. " Sorry. They are factual numbers from HM Treasury. You make an assertion unsupported by factual data. " The figures for 2015 are estimates so where you have generated those from can only be treated with as much suspicion as the figures you have already presented." They are pretty damned good estimates then because they came from Parliamentary Briefing Paper Number 06091, 13 June 2016. And they were reported by The Telegraph and others here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12176663/EU-Facts-how-much-does-Britain-pay-to-the-EU-budget.html Again if you have different numbers then do please publish them. Until then you are just making an unsupported assertion. " http://visual.ons.gov.uk/uk-perspectives-2016-the-uk-contribution-to-the-eu-budget/ " Ah yes nice document which confirms the 2010 - 2014 numbers I supplied in Graph format. Source: Table 9.9 of the ONS Pink Book, 2015 You will forgive me not bothering to comment on the rest of your opinions which are based on a false premise. You seem to be very confused over the terms 'Gross' and 'Nett' and actually believe the money the EU spends here is not our own money being recycled.... | |||
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" Those figures grossly over estimate contributions and under estimate rebates seen on the ONS for the same period. The figures for 2015 are estimates so where you have generated those from can only be treated with as much suspicion as the figures you have already presented. http://visual.ons.gov.uk/uk-perspectives-2016-the-uk-contribution-to-the-eu-budget/ There is no doubt the leave campaign shouldn't have used the £350m pw figure. 1 for the above reason. That our contributions being lower than the figure being quoted, and as a result not as good a banner to pin to the bus. 2, as you know the £350m pw to pour back into the NHS is a stipulation. One like we are doing now are holding leavers to account on. Why shouldn't we? 3, a side note, it would have meant that the leave campaign would have had to agree with some form of expert opinion on.
Do you think maybe the problem with the NHS is that there are too many experts? These consultants with all their training, these so called "qualified" nurses, they dont come cheap you know. Why do these elites think that they know what's best for me? Sack the staff, leave the equipment and the drugs. If I need an appendix out I'm pretty sure I can figure it out on my own thank you very much. I don't need some uni boy telling me what to do. If I need to whip up a cocktail of drugs to fight of cancer I'm sure I can do it. I believe in myself, if I can mix a JD and it can't be that much harder. "You are clearly missing a career on the pages of 'Private eye'.... | |||
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"You know what folks? Both sides made exaggerated claims. On a brighter note, it looks like a deal with Australia is on the cards. The question isn't about if we will make trade deals around the world, of course we will. The question is when will these deals be negotiated, signed and started. Quicker, I would imagine, than if we had stayed in the EU. But I don't pretend to have a crystal ball. It is great to see that trade deals are already on the cards. Why would it be quicker? The EU has 600 trade negotiators, we have about 20. Which is more attractive to trade with? One country or 28? The economy of the EU combined dwarfs that of the UK alone. Well, at the moment our membership of the EU precludes making trade deals. Any trade deal has to meet the approval of all member states. I don't deny that the combined economy of the EU makes it an attractive trade partner. It would be silly to say otherwise. Don't talk the UK down, though. We are certainly worth trading with. Im not talking the UK down or saying that no one wants to trade with us. I'm just saying that its going to take years until these deals come into place. The UK could be facing a decade or more of lost growth that will put the UK economy significantly behind where it could have been had we stayed in the EU." what is a trade deal? | |||
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"You know what folks? Both sides made exaggerated claims. On a brighter note, it looks like a deal with Australia is on the cards. A deal with Australia (with whom we already have a trade deal anyway) which is geographically on the other side of the planet is truly a great step forward.... Transportation costs are of course irrelevant these days. Do we have a need for iron ore transported from the other side of the world? We already take their uranium ore and sugar but we don't use much coal thes days. I suppose if we stopped importing coal from Poland, we could bring it from Australia instead. I haven't a clue what we export to Australia. But it appears that in 2013 we exported £10 billion pounds worth of goods and services there - so it is not an insignificant market, despite the distance." And that was despite the barriers the EU erects against non-EU countries in its protectionist policies. | |||
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"You seem to be very confused over the terms 'Gross' and 'Nett' and actually believe the money the EU spends here is not our own money being recycled.... "You do realise that money being "recycled" is the very basis of a tax system right? | |||
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"You know what folks? Both sides made exaggerated claims. On a brighter note, it looks like a deal with Australia is on the cards. The question isn't about if we will make trade deals around the world, of course we will. The question is when will these deals be negotiated, signed and started. Quicker, I would imagine, than if we had stayed in the EU. But I don't pretend to have a crystal ball. It is great to see that trade deals are already on the cards. Why would it be quicker? The EU has 600 trade negotiators, we have about 20. Which is more attractive to trade with? One country or 28? The economy of the EU combined dwarfs that of the UK alone." The Eu need to trade with us because we are their single biggest internal export market. And there are 61 Billion other reasons as well. Its the Trade Deficit that the EU benefits from.... | |||
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"You seem to be very confused over the terms 'Gross' and 'Nett' and actually believe the money the EU spends here is not our own money being recycled....
You do realise that money being "recycled" is the very basis of a tax system right? "So our contribution to the Eu is a tax then. Thanks for confirming that. Should I now call it the 'EU Tax'? Please stop confusing separate issues to make yourself look clever. We paid an average of over £13.1 billion a year for 6 years into the EU. Whatever the EU spends here is OUR money coming back. We are just as capable as the Eu to spend our money how we choose. And the new Government has already said that Farmers and Fishermen will get the same if not more than they get now. The huge point people like you miss in all your high and mighty condescending attitude is that it is about Sovereignty, control of our destiny and freedom to do as we wish not be dictated by unelected others. You mention taxation. As an American you will recall your forefathers fought an armed civil war to remove yourself from a foreign based unelected Monarch under the banner of 'No Taxation without Representation' did they not? Well we just did the same thing without the use of guns ..... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"You seem to be very confused over the terms 'Gross' and 'Nett' and actually believe the money the EU spends here is not our own money being recycled....
You do realise that money being "recycled" is the very basis of a tax system right?
So our contribution to the Eu is a tax then. Thanks for confirming that. Should I now call it the 'EU Tax'?
Please stop confusing separate issues to make yourself look clever. We paid an average of over £13.1 billion a year for 6 years into the EU. Whatever the EU spends here is OUR money coming back. We are just as capable as the Eu to spend our money how we choose. And the new Government has already said that Farmers and Fishermen will get the same if not more than they get now.
The huge point people like you miss in all your high and mighty condescending attitude is that it is about Sovereignty, control of our destiny and freedom to do as we wish not be dictated by unelected others.
You mention taxation. As an American you will recall your forefathers fought an armed civil war to remove yourself from a foreign based unelected Monarch under the banner of 'No Taxation without Representation' did they not?
Well we just did the same thing without the use of guns ..... "You're imagining a zero sum game though. You know that you can put money into a business and get out more than you put it because of economies of scale etc. I'm not saying the EU necessarily does that because I haven't looked at the figures, but it is possible. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"You seem to be very confused over the terms 'Gross' and 'Nett' and actually believe the money the EU spends here is not our own money being recycled....
You do realise that money being "recycled" is the very basis of a tax system right?
So our contribution to the Eu is a tax then. Thanks for confirming that. Should I now call it the 'EU Tax'?
Please stop confusing separate issues to make yourself look clever. We paid an average of over £13.1 billion a year for 6 years into the EU. Whatever the EU spends here is OUR money coming back. We are just as capable as the Eu to spend our money how we choose. And the new Government has already said that Farmers and Fishermen will get the same if not more than they get now.
The huge point people like you miss in all your high and mighty condescending attitude is that it is about Sovereignty, control of our destiny and freedom to do as we wish not be dictated by unelected others.
You mention taxation. As an American you will recall your forefathers fought an armed civil war to remove yourself from a foreign based unelected Monarch under the banner of 'No Taxation without Representation' did they not?
Well we just did the same thing without the use of guns ..... "I'm no. American, I'm as British as Apple Crumble
No taxation without representation huh? Representation would be nice as you say. In this country we do that through a parliament. I think we elect members to it. How about reform the EU to create some kind of a European Parliament? Maybe then we could vote on electing Members of the European Parliament? How does that comprise sound to you? Reasonable?
You always talk about losing sovereignty, when actually what the EU does is pool soverignty. Exactly the same thing happens in the UK. The taxes I pay are not soley spent on my local area, a pound I pay in tax might build a hospital in Scotland, a pound of tax taken from Leeds might fund a school in Northern Ireland, and pound of taxation from Cardiff might pay the salary of the soldier who lives across the road.
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"You seem to be very confused over the terms 'Gross' and 'Nett' and actually believe the money the EU spends here is not our own money being recycled....
You do realise that money being "recycled" is the very basis of a tax system right?
So our contribution to the Eu is a tax then. Thanks for confirming that. Should I now call it the 'EU Tax'?
Please stop confusing separate issues to make yourself look clever. We paid an average of over £13.1 billion a year for 6 years into the EU. Whatever the EU spends here is OUR money coming back. We are just as capable as the Eu to spend our money how we choose. And the new Government has already said that Farmers and Fishermen will get the same if not more than they get now.
The huge point people like you miss in all your high and mighty condescending attitude is that it is about Sovereignty, control of our destiny and freedom to do as we wish not be dictated by unelected others.
You mention taxation. As an American you will recall your forefathers fought an armed civil war to remove yourself from a foreign based unelected Monarch under the banner of 'No Taxation without Representation' did they not?
Well we just did the same thing without the use of guns .....
You're imagining a zero sum game though. You know that you can put money into a business and get out more than you put it because of economies of scale etc.
I'm not saying the EU necessarily does that because I haven't looked at the figures, but it is possible. "I totally agree but taxation isn't the same as a commercial investment is it? And in the context of the EU would you want to be part of a business where you are the 2nd highest investor costing you £13 Billion a year every year, the business spends some £4 billion a year in your other businesses, you see your investment being spread out to 22 other partners who not only do not invest but take out and you end up with a situation where your investment loses you £61 Bn a year in trade? I fear a shareholder revolt. Oh wait its called Brexit ... | |||
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"You know what folks? Both sides made exaggerated claims. On a brighter note, it looks like a deal with Australia is on the cards. The question isn't about if we will make trade deals around the world, of course we will. The question is when will these deals be negotiated, signed and started. Quicker, I would imagine, than if we had stayed in the EU. But I don't pretend to have a crystal ball. It is great to see that trade deals are already on the cards. Why would it be quicker? The EU has 600 trade negotiators, we have about 20. Which is more attractive to trade with? One country or 28? The economy of the EU combined dwarfs that of the UK alone. Well, at the moment our membership of the EU precludes making trade deals. Any trade deal has to meet the approval of all member states. I don't deny that the combined economy of the EU makes it an attractive trade partner. It would be silly to say otherwise. Don't talk the UK down, though. We are certainly worth trading with. Im not talking the UK down or saying that no one wants to trade with us. I'm just saying that its going to take years until these deals come into place. The UK could be facing a decade or more of lost growth that will put the UK economy significantly behind where it could have been had we stayed in the EU." Not if we concentrate on doing those deals. A major factor in the amount of time it takes the EU to broker a deal is having to satisfy its 26 member states. We do not have that handicap. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"You seem to be very confused over the terms 'Gross' and 'Nett' and actually believe the money the EU spends here is not our own money being recycled....
You do realise that money being "recycled" is the very basis of a tax system right?
So our contribution to the Eu is a tax then. Thanks for confirming that. Should I now call it the 'EU Tax'?
Please stop confusing separate issues to make yourself look clever. We paid an average of over £13.1 billion a year for 6 years into the EU. Whatever the EU spends here is OUR money coming back. We are just as capable as the Eu to spend our money how we choose. And the new Government has already said that Farmers and Fishermen will get the same if not more than they get now.
The huge point people like you miss in all your high and mighty condescending attitude is that it is about Sovereignty, control of our destiny and freedom to do as we wish not be dictated by unelected others.
You mention taxation. As an American you will recall your forefathers fought an armed civil war to remove yourself from a foreign based unelected Monarch under the banner of 'No Taxation without Representation' did they not?
Well we just did the same thing without the use of guns .....
You're imagining a zero sum game though. You know that you can put money into a business and get out more than you put it because of economies of scale etc.
I'm not saying the EU necessarily does that because I haven't looked at the figures, but it is possible.
I totally agree but taxation isn't the same as a commercial investment is it?
And in the context of the EU would you want to be part of a business where you are the 2nd highest investor costing you £13 Billion a year every year, the business spends some £4 billion a year in your other businesses, you see your investment being spread out to 22 other partners who not only do not invest but take out and you end up with a situation where your investment loses you £61 Bn a year in trade?
I fear a shareholder revolt. Oh wait its called Brexit ... "Well put it this way, I'm a consumer that live without 28 different standards for car seat belts and toothpaste content so there are efficiencies when you standardise those. So yes I'm happy to pay someone to do that job because it saves more money than it costs | |||
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"You know what folks? Both sides made exaggerated claims. On a brighter note, it looks like a deal with Australia is on the cards. The question isn't about if we will make trade deals around the world, of course we will. The question is when will these deals be negotiated, signed and started. Quicker, I would imagine, than if we had stayed in the EU. But I don't pretend to have a crystal ball. It is great to see that trade deals are already on the cards. Why would it be quicker? The EU has 600 trade negotiators, we have about 20. Which is more attractive to trade with? One country or 28? The economy of the EU combined dwarfs that of the UK alone. Well, at the moment our membership of the EU precludes making trade deals. Any trade deal has to meet the approval of all member states. I don't deny that the combined economy of the EU makes it an attractive trade partner. It would be silly to say otherwise. Don't talk the UK down, though. We are certainly worth trading with. Im not talking the UK down or saying that no one wants to trade with us. I'm just saying that its going to take years until these deals come into place. The UK could be facing a decade or more of lost growth that will put the UK economy significantly behind where it could have been had we stayed in the EU. Not if we concentrate on doing those deals. A major factor in the amount of time it takes the EU to broker a deal is having to satisfy its 26 member states. We do not have that handicap." I think we will have to agree to disagree on this point. Trade negotiations take a long time because they are complicated, not because of ratification process by member states which only happens after the agreement has been made. | |||
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" I'm no. American, I'm as British as Apple Crumble" Ooops ... many apologies for the mistake. I am confusing with another couple. My bad. " No taxation without representation huh? Representation would be nice as you say. In this country we do that through a parliament. I think we elect members to it. How about reform the EU to create some kind of a European Parliament? Maybe then we could vote on electing Members of the European Parliament? How does that comprise sound to you? Reasonable?" Ah yes how clever. Except one problem. That EU Parliament only works when every Law is passed through it which isn't the case. And the people that control and dominate the EU as a structure are NOT elected by you and me. I doubt anyone can name the 5 Presidents. I can't but then I don't care. FIVE Presidents and I never elected ONE! To think the EU in any way replicates the UK Parliamentary accountability is just fanciful. " You always talk about losing sovereignty, when actually what the EU does is pool soverignty." At which point you lose your Sovereignty. Its not a bottle of water where we can all have a bit now and again. Sovereignty is a priceless gift that is held by ONE nation through its democracy unto itself. We lost that when we subsumed our lawmaking to the EU. And some 60% of all Laws, Regulations and Directives now come from the EU and not our own Sovereign Parliament. " Exactly the same thing happens in the UK. The taxes I pay are not soley spent on my local area, a pound I pay in tax might build a hospital in Scotland, a pound of tax taken from Leeds might fund a school in Northern Ireland, and pound of taxation from Cardiff might pay the salary of the soldier who lives across the road. " Without venturing into the huge unfairness of the Barnett Formula there is a HUGE difference in the UK tax and electoral system to the EU. Even given we now have 4 devolved Administrations (which have their own elected members) we each elect an MP to represent us in the Westminster Parliament which is Supreme in the United Kingdom. That Parliament is the source of UK Government no one else. It devolves execution of its powers in certain areas to those Administrations but retains Supremacy. In the EU the power (and therefore Sovereignty) is being sucked outwards into a foreign country. Our Courts are no longer Supreme but bow down to a court in a foreign country. 27 other countries can override our wishes and do so in this Parliament you suggested. The EU Parliament is an 'Assembly' it is not a source of Government and yet the EU acts like one. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I'm no. American, I'm as British as Apple Crumble Ooops ... many apologies for the mistake. I am confusing with another couple. My bad. No taxation without representation huh? Representation would be nice as you say. In this country we do that through a parliament. I think we elect members to it. How about reform the EU to create some kind of a European Parliament? Maybe then we could vote on electing Members of the European Parliament? How does that comprise sound to you? Reasonable? Ah yes how clever. Except one problem. That EU Parliament only works when every Law is passed through it which isn't the case. And the people that control and dominate the EU as a structure are NOT elected by you and me. I doubt anyone can name the 5 Presidents. I can't but then I don't care. FIVE Presidents and I never elected ONE! To think the EU in any way replicates the UK Parliamentary accountability is just fanciful. You always talk about losing sovereignty, when actually what the EU does is pool soverignty. At which point you lose your Sovereignty. Its not a bottle of water where we can all have a bit now and again. Sovereignty is a priceless gift that is held by ONE nation through its democracy unto itself. We lost that when we subsumed our lawmaking to the EU. And some 60% of all Laws, Regulations and Directives now come from the EU and not our own Sovereign Parliament. Exactly the same thing happens in the UK. The taxes I pay are not soley spent on my local area, a pound I pay in tax might build a hospital in Scotland, a pound of tax taken from Leeds might fund a school in Northern Ireland, and pound of taxation from Cardiff might pay the salary of the soldier who lives across the road. Without venturing into the huge unfairness of the Barnett Formula there is a HUGE difference in the UK tax and electoral system to the EU. Even given we now have 4 devolved Administrations (which have their own elected members) we each elect an MP to represent us in the Westminster Parliament which is Supreme in the United Kingdom. That Parliament is the source of UK Government no one else. It devolves execution of its powers in certain areas to those Administrations but retains Supremacy. In the EU the power (and therefore Sovereignty) is being sucked outwards into a foreign country. Our Courts are no longer Supreme but bow down to a court in a foreign country. 27 other countries can override our wishes and do so in this Parliament you suggested. The EU Parliament is an 'Assembly' it is not a source of Government and yet the EU acts like one." In a similar way you want voters in England and Wales to override the will of the people of Scotland and Northern Ireland with Brexit? If you could name me just the bishop that sits in the house of lords that you voted for that would be great, or if its easier perhaps just the last chancellor of rhe exchequer that you voted for? Or thr | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I'm no. American, I'm as British as Apple Crumble Ooops ... many apologies for the mistake. I am confusing with another couple. My bad. No taxation without representation huh? Representation would be nice as you say. In this country we do that through a parliament. I think we elect members to it. How about reform the EU to create some kind of a European Parliament? Maybe then we could vote on electing Members of the European Parliament? How does that comprise sound to you? Reasonable? Ah yes how clever. Except one problem. That EU Parliament only works when every Law is passed through it which isn't the case. And the people that control and dominate the EU as a structure are NOT elected by you and me. I doubt anyone can name the 5 Presidents. I can't but then I don't care. FIVE Presidents and I never elected ONE! To think the EU in any way replicates the UK Parliamentary accountability is just fanciful. You always talk about losing sovereignty, when actually what the EU does is pool soverignty. At which point you lose your Sovereignty. Its not a bottle of water where we can all have a bit now and again. Sovereignty is a priceless gift that is held by ONE nation through its democracy unto itself. We lost that when we subsumed our lawmaking to the EU. And some 60% of all Laws, Regulations and Directives now come from the EU and not our own Sovereign Parliament. Exactly the same thing happens in the UK. The taxes I pay are not soley spent on my local area, a pound I pay in tax might build a hospital in Scotland, a pound of tax taken from Leeds might fund a school in Northern Ireland, and pound of taxation from Cardiff might pay the salary of the soldier who lives across the road. Without venturing into the huge unfairness of the Barnett Formula there is a HUGE difference in the UK tax and electoral system to the EU. Even given we now have 4 devolved Administrations (which have their own elected members) we each elect an MP to represent us in the Westminster Parliament which is Supreme in the United Kingdom. That Parliament is the source of UK Government no one else. It devolves execution of its powers in certain areas to those Administrations but retains Supremacy. In the EU the power (and therefore Sovereignty) is being sucked outwards into a foreign country. Our Courts are no longer Supreme but bow down to a court in a foreign country. 27 other countries can override our wishes and do so in this Parliament you suggested. The EU Parliament is an 'Assembly' it is not a source of Government and yet the EU acts like one. In a similar way you want voters in England and Wales to override the will of the people of Scotland and Northern Ireland with Brexit? If you could name me just the bishop that sits in the house of lords that you voted for that would be great, or if its easier perhaps just the last chancellor of rhe exchequer that you voted for? Or thr" Or the last Head of State that you voted for. (please excuse my fat thumbs sending the message before I had finished writing it) | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"You know what folks? Both sides made exaggerated claims. On a brighter note, it looks like a deal with Australia is on the cards. The question isn't about if we will make trade deals around the world, of course we will. The question is when will these deals be negotiated, signed and started. Quicker, I would imagine, than if we had stayed in the EU. But I don't pretend to have a crystal ball. It is great to see that trade deals are already on the cards. Why would it be quicker? The EU has 600 trade negotiators, we have about 20. Which is more attractive to trade with? One country or 28? The economy of the EU combined dwarfs that of the UK alone. Well, at the moment our membership of the EU precludes making trade deals. Any trade deal has to meet the approval of all member states. I don't deny that the combined economy of the EU makes it an attractive trade partner. It would be silly to say otherwise. Don't talk the UK down, though. We are certainly worth trading with. Im not talking the UK down or saying that no one wants to trade with us. I'm just saying that its going to take years until these deals come into place. The UK could be facing a decade or more of lost growth that will put the UK economy significantly behind where it could have been had we stayed in the EU. Not if we concentrate on doing those deals. A major factor in the amount of time it takes the EU to broker a deal is having to satisfy its 26 member states. We do not have that handicap. I think we will have to agree to disagree on this point. Trade negotiations take a long time because they are complicated, not because of ratification process by member states which only happens after the agreement has been made. " Is that not an over-simplification of the EU trade deal process? Before and during a negotiation, the requirements of each member must surely be ascertained to determine the terms of the negotiation. I am sure it is not a case of, "Hey guys, this is the deal. Take it or leave it." Anyway, perhaps we should agree to disagree. I have the (perhaps over-optimistic) view that trade for the UK will be better after the exit. You have the (perhaps overly pessimistic) view that it will be worse. Neither of us have crystal balls. | |||
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"Those figures grossly over estimate contributions and under estimate rebates seen on the ONS for the same period. Sorry. They are factual numbers from HM Treasury. You make an assertion unsupported by factual data. The figures for 2015 are estimates so where you have generated those from can only be treated with as much suspicion as the figures you have already presented. They are pretty damned good estimates then because they came from Parliamentary Briefing Paper Number 06091, 13 June 2016. And they were reported by The Telegraph and others here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12176663/EU-Facts-how-much-does-Britain-pay-to-the-EU-budget.html Again if you have different numbers then do please publish them. Until then you are just making an unsupported assertion. http://visual.ons.gov.uk/uk-perspectives-2016-the-uk-contribution-to-the-eu-budget/ Ah yes nice document which confirms the 2010 - 2014 numbers I supplied in Graph format. Source: Table 9.9 of the ONS Pink Book, 2015 You will forgive me not bothering to comment on the rest of your opinions which are based on a false premise. You seem to be very confused over the terms 'Gross' and 'Nett' and actually believe the money the EU spends here is not our own money being recycled.... "You have to remember you are relying on the existing model. One which relies on growth, small and large businesses remaining, investment increasing, jobs increasing, the union of the Isles, the make up of global infrastructures not being jeopardised by our exit. Estimates and briefings as to the any contribution and rebate is only made possible by the current climate remaining in tact. Our exit has tilted economies already and once Article 50 comes into effect, any briefings on estimates make your assertions are a figment - only be made possible if there isn't a collapse of our nation, something we cannot predict. | |||
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" I'm no. American, I'm as British as Apple Crumble Ooops ... many apologies for the mistake. I am confusing with another couple. My bad. No taxation without representation huh? Representation would be nice as you say. In this country we do that through a parliament. I think we elect members to it. How about reform the EU to create some kind of a European Parliament? Maybe then we could vote on electing Members of the European Parliament? How does that comprise sound to you? Reasonable? Ah yes how clever. Except one problem. That EU Parliament only works when every Law is passed through it which isn't the case. And the people that control and dominate the EU as a structure are NOT elected by you and me. I doubt anyone can name the 5 Presidents. I can't but then I don't care. FIVE Presidents and I never elected ONE! To think the EU in any way replicates the UK Parliamentary accountability is just fanciful. You always talk about losing sovereignty, when actually what the EU does is pool soverignty. At which point you lose your Sovereignty. Its not a bottle of water where we can all have a bit now and again. Sovereignty is a priceless gift that is held by ONE nation through its democracy unto itself. We lost that when we subsumed our lawmaking to the EU. And some 60% of all Laws, Regulations and Directives now come from the EU and not our own Sovereign Parliament. Exactly the same thing happens in the UK. The taxes I pay are not soley spent on my local area, a pound I pay in tax might build a hospital in Scotland, a pound of tax taken from Leeds might fund a school in Northern Ireland, and pound of taxation from Cardiff might pay the salary of the soldier who lives across the road. Without venturing into the huge unfairness of the Barnett Formula there is a HUGE difference in the UK tax and electoral system to the EU. Even given we now have 4 devolved Administrations (which have their own elected members) we each elect an MP to represent us in the Westminster Parliament which is Supreme in the United Kingdom. That Parliament is the source of UK Government no one else. It devolves execution of its powers in certain areas to those Administrations but retains Supremacy. In the EU the power (and therefore Sovereignty) is being sucked outwards into a foreign country. Our Courts are no longer Supreme but bow down to a court in a foreign country. 27 other countries can override our wishes and do so in this Parliament you suggested. The EU Parliament is an 'Assembly' it is not a source of Government and yet the EU acts like one. In a similar way you want voters in England and Wales to override the will of the people of Scotland and Northern Ireland with Brexit? If you could name me just the bishop that sits in the house of lords that you voted for that would be great, or if its easier perhaps just the last chancellor of rhe exchequer that you voted for? Or the last Head of State that you voted for." You are doing it again. As soon as you get a solid answer on one topic you shift your ground to something completely different. But OK... In the referendum it was a Binary vote of ALL the UK. The whole of the UK voted by a good majority on a high turnout to Leave. The whole of the UK expressed its will. Its that simple. The people like you constructing different 'country' votes are grabbing at straws or, like Sturgeon, playing dangerous political games. East Anglia never voted for a Labour Government for 13 years so were we 'ignored'? No its called Democracy. Bishops are appointed to an amending Upper House. They do not make Laws and can not deny laws from the elected House of Commons. Parliament is actually made up of two Houses but only the House of Commons is Supreme and passes legislation. As for Chancellors or Secretaries of State I think you are either being very silly or just being sarcastic and hardly worth a response. And of course we get the Monarchy thrown in for good measure. We as a country have a Parliamentary Monarchy where the Monarch is a titular Head of State and is non political. She (or He) is Commander in Chief of the military to separate it from the political body. The Monarch can dissolve any failing or even tyrannical Parliament handing power to the people and so acts as a safeguarding mechanism for our democracy. It is a proven system of Government. 16 other countries even choose OUR Head of State to be THEIR Head of State. Many others use our Parliamentary system as their system. To in any way suggest that the EU is a better model of democracy than ours is just making you look rather daft to be honest.
The Monarchy and the House of Lords are totally irrelevant to the EU debate but I guess you are now grabbing at anything to cause argument. Whats next? Shame on you. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I'm no. American, I'm as British as Apple Crumble Ooops ... many apologies for the mistake. I am confusing with another couple. My bad. No taxation without representation huh? Representation would be nice as you say. In this country we do that through a parliament. I think we elect members to it. How about reform the EU to create some kind of a European Parliament? Maybe then we could vote on electing Members of the European Parliament? How does that comprise sound to you? Reasonable? Ah yes how clever. Except one problem. That EU Parliament only works when every Law is passed through it which isn't the case. And the people that control and dominate the EU as a structure are NOT elected by you and me. I doubt anyone can name the 5 Presidents. I can't but then I don't care. FIVE Presidents and I never elected ONE! To think the EU in any way replicates the UK Parliamentary accountability is just fanciful. You always talk about losing sovereignty, when actually what the EU does is pool soverignty. At which point you lose your Sovereignty. Its not a bottle of water where we can all have a bit now and again. Sovereignty is a priceless gift that is held by ONE nation through its democracy unto itself. We lost that when we subsumed our lawmaking to the EU. And some 60% of all Laws, Regulations and Directives now come from the EU and not our own Sovereign Parliament. Exactly the same thing happens in the UK. The taxes I pay are not soley spent on my local area, a pound I pay in tax might build a hospital in Scotland, a pound of tax taken from Leeds might fund a school in Northern Ireland, and pound of taxation from Cardiff might pay the salary of the soldier who lives across the road. Without venturing into the huge unfairness of the Barnett Formula there is a HUGE difference in the UK tax and electoral system to the EU. Even given we now have 4 devolved Administrations (which have their own elected members) we each elect an MP to represent us in the Westminster Parliament which is Supreme in the United Kingdom. That Parliament is the source of UK Government no one else. It devolves execution of its powers in certain areas to those Administrations but retains Supremacy. In the EU the power (and therefore Sovereignty) is being sucked outwards into a foreign country. Our Courts are no longer Supreme but bow down to a court in a foreign country. 27 other countries can override our wishes and do so in this Parliament you suggested. The EU Parliament is an 'Assembly' it is not a source of Government and yet the EU acts like one. In a similar way you want voters in England and Wales to override the will of the people of Scotland and Northern Ireland with Brexit? If you could name me just the bishop that sits in the house of lords that you voted for that would be great, or if its easier perhaps just the last chancellor of rhe exchequer that you voted for? Or the last Head of State that you voted for. You are doing it again. As soon as you get a solid answer on one topic you shift your ground to something completely different. But OK... In the referendum it was a Binary vote of ALL the UK. The whole of the UK voted by a good majority on a high turnout to Leave. The whole of the UK expressed its will. Its that simple. The people like you constructing different 'country' votes are grabbing at straws or, like Sturgeon, playing dangerous political games. East Anglia never voted for a Labour Government for 13 years so were we 'ignored'? No its called Democracy. Bishops are appointed to an amending Upper House. They do not make Laws and can not deny laws from the elected House of Commons. Parliament is actually made up of two Houses but only the House of Commons is Supreme and passes legislation. As for Chancellors or Secretaries of State I think you are either being very silly or just being sarcastic and hardly worth a response. And of course we get the Monarchy thrown in for good measure. We as a country have a Parliamentary Monarchy where the Monarch is a titular Head of State and is non political. She (or He) is Commander in Chief of the military to separate it from the political body. The Monarch can dissolve any failing or even tyrannical Parliament handing power to the people and so acts as a safeguarding mechanism for our democracy. It is a proven system of Government. 16 other countries even choose OUR Head of State to be THEIR Head of State. Many others use our Parliamentary system as their system. To in any way suggest that the EU is a better model of democracy than ours is just making you look rather daft to be honest.
The Monarchy and the House of Lords are totally irrelevant to the EU debate but I guess you are now grabbing at anything to cause argument. Whats next? Shame on you. "House of lords democratic that's bushing the bounds of reality to far .first past the post system democratically fair ..unlikely .. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I'm no. American, I'm as British as Apple Crumble Ooops ... many apologies for the mistake. I am confusing with another couple. My bad. No taxation without representation huh? Representation would be nice as you say. In this country we do that through a parliament. I think we elect members to it. How about reform the EU to create some kind of a European Parliament? Maybe then we could vote on electing Members of the European Parliament? How does that comprise sound to you? Reasonable? Ah yes how clever. Except one problem. That EU Parliament only works when every Law is passed through it which isn't the case. And the people that control and dominate the EU as a structure are NOT elected by you and me. I doubt anyone can name the 5 Presidents. I can't but then I don't care. FIVE Presidents and I never elected ONE! To think the EU in any way replicates the UK Parliamentary accountability is just fanciful. You always talk about losing sovereignty, when actually what the EU does is pool soverignty. At which point you lose your Sovereignty. Its not a bottle of water where we can all have a bit now and again. Sovereignty is a priceless gift that is held by ONE nation through its democracy unto itself. We lost that when we subsumed our lawmaking to the EU. And some 60% of all Laws, Regulations and Directives now come from the EU and not our own Sovereign Parliament. Exactly the same thing happens in the UK. The taxes I pay are not soley spent on my local area, a pound I pay in tax might build a hospital in Scotland, a pound of tax taken from Leeds might fund a school in Northern Ireland, and pound of taxation from Cardiff might pay the salary of the soldier who lives across the road. Without venturing into the huge unfairness of the Barnett Formula there is a HUGE difference in the UK tax and electoral system to the EU. Even given we now have 4 devolved Administrations (which have their own elected members) we each elect an MP to represent us in the Westminster Parliament which is Supreme in the United Kingdom. That Parliament is the source of UK Government no one else. It devolves execution of its powers in certain areas to those Administrations but retains Supremacy. In the EU the power (and therefore Sovereignty) is being sucked outwards into a foreign country. Our Courts are no longer Supreme but bow down to a court in a foreign country. 27 other countries can override our wishes and do so in this Parliament you suggested. The EU Parliament is an 'Assembly' it is not a source of Government and yet the EU acts like one. In a similar way you want voters in England and Wales to override the will of the people of Scotland and Northern Ireland with Brexit? If you could name me just the bishop that sits in the house of lords that you voted for that would be great, or if its easier perhaps just the last chancellor of rhe exchequer that you voted for? Or the last Head of State that you voted for. You are doing it again. As soon as you get a solid answer on one topic you shift your ground to something completely different. But OK... In the referendum it was a Binary vote of ALL the UK. The whole of the UK voted by a good majority on a high turnout to Leave. The whole of the UK expressed its will. Its that simple. The people like you constructing different 'country' votes are grabbing at straws or, like Sturgeon, playing dangerous political games. East Anglia never voted for a Labour Government for 13 years so were we 'ignored'? No its called Democracy. Bishops are appointed to an amending Upper House. They do not make Laws and can not deny laws from the elected House of Commons. Parliament is actually made up of two Houses but only the House of Commons is Supreme and passes legislation. As for Chancellors or Secretaries of State I think you are either being very silly or just being sarcastic and hardly worth a response. And of course we get the Monarchy thrown in for good measure. We as a country have a Parliamentary Monarchy where the Monarch is a titular Head of State and is non political. She (or He) is Commander in Chief of the military to separate it from the political body. The Monarch can dissolve any failing or even tyrannical Parliament handing power to the people and so acts as a safeguarding mechanism for our democracy. It is a proven system of Government. 16 other countries even choose OUR Head of State to be THEIR Head of State. Many others use our Parliamentary system as their system. To in any way suggest that the EU is a better model of democracy than ours is just making you look rather daft to be honest.
The Monarchy and the House of Lords are totally irrelevant to the EU debate but I guess you are now grabbing at anything to cause argument. Whats next? Shame on you.
House of lords democratic that's bushing the bounds of reality to far .first past the post system democratically fair ..unlikely .."IN or OUT? Democracy was done, end of | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I'm no. American, I'm as British as Apple Crumble Ooops ... many apologies for the mistake. I am confusing with another couple. My bad. No taxation without representation huh? Representation would be nice as you say. In this country we do that through a parliament. I think we elect members to it. How about reform the EU to create some kind of a European Parliament? Maybe then we could vote on electing Members of the European Parliament? How does that comprise sound to you? Reasonable? Ah yes how clever. Except one problem. That EU Parliament only works when every Law is passed through it which isn't the case. And the people that control and dominate the EU as a structure are NOT elected by you and me. I doubt anyone can name the 5 Presidents. I can't but then I don't care. FIVE Presidents and I never elected ONE! To think the EU in any way replicates the UK Parliamentary accountability is just fanciful. You always talk about losing sovereignty, when actually what the EU does is pool soverignty. At which point you lose your Sovereignty. Its not a bottle of water where we can all have a bit now and again. Sovereignty is a priceless gift that is held by ONE nation through its democracy unto itself. We lost that when we subsumed our lawmaking to the EU. And some 60% of all Laws, Regulations and Directives now come from the EU and not our own Sovereign Parliament. Exactly the same thing happens in the UK. The taxes I pay are not soley spent on my local area, a pound I pay in tax might build a hospital in Scotland, a pound of tax taken from Leeds might fund a school in Northern Ireland, and pound of taxation from Cardiff might pay the salary of the soldier who lives across the road. Without venturing into the huge unfairness of the Barnett Formula there is a HUGE difference in the UK tax and electoral system to the EU. Even given we now have 4 devolved Administrations (which have their own elected members) we each elect an MP to represent us in the Westminster Parliament which is Supreme in the United Kingdom. That Parliament is the source of UK Government no one else. It devolves execution of its powers in certain areas to those Administrations but retains Supremacy. In the EU the power (and therefore Sovereignty) is being sucked outwards into a foreign country. Our Courts are no longer Supreme but bow down to a court in a foreign country. 27 other countries can override our wishes and do so in this Parliament you suggested. The EU Parliament is an 'Assembly' it is not a source of Government and yet the EU acts like one. In a similar way you want voters in England and Wales to override the will of the people of Scotland and Northern Ireland with Brexit? If you could name me just the bishop that sits in the house of lords that you voted for that would be great, or if its easier perhaps just the last chancellor of rhe exchequer that you voted for? Or the last Head of State that you voted for. You are doing it again. As soon as you get a solid answer on one topic you shift your ground to something completely different. But OK... In the referendum it was a Binary vote of ALL the UK. The whole of the UK voted by a good majority on a high turnout to Leave. The whole of the UK expressed its will. Its that simple. The people like you constructing different 'country' votes are grabbing at straws or, like Sturgeon, playing dangerous political games. East Anglia never voted for a Labour Government for 13 years so were we 'ignored'? No its called Democracy. Bishops are appointed to an amending Upper House. They do not make Laws and can not deny laws from the elected House of Commons. Parliament is actually made up of two Houses but only the House of Commons is Supreme and passes legislation. As for Chancellors or Secretaries of State I think you are either being very silly or just being sarcastic and hardly worth a response. And of course we get the Monarchy thrown in for good measure. We as a country have a Parliamentary Monarchy where the Monarch is a titular Head of State and is non political. She (or He) is Commander in Chief of the military to separate it from the political body. The Monarch can dissolve any failing or even tyrannical Parliament handing power to the people and so acts as a safeguarding mechanism for our democracy. It is a proven system of Government. 16 other countries even choose OUR Head of State to be THEIR Head of State. Many others use our Parliamentary system as their system. To in any way suggest that the EU is a better model of democracy than ours is just making you look rather daft to be honest.
The Monarchy and the House of Lords are totally irrelevant to the EU debate but I guess you are now grabbing at anything to cause argument. Whats next? Shame on you. "I'm saying that the EU is very similar to the UK democracy that we have. The President of the European Council has no executive powers, just like the head of State in the UK. They have the European Parliament and we have a parliament. We have a cabinet which is unelected and chosen by the prime minister, they have the commission which is also unelected and the UK's commissioner is also chosen by the PM. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I'm no. American, I'm as British as Apple Crumble Ooops ... many apologies for the mistake. I am confusing with another couple. My bad. No taxation without representation huh? Representation would be nice as you say. In this country we do that through a parliament. I think we elect members to it. How about reform the EU to create some kind of a European Parliament? Maybe then we could vote on electing Members of the European Parliament? How does that comprise sound to you? Reasonable? Ah yes how clever. Except one problem. That EU Parliament only works when every Law is passed through it which isn't the case. And the people that control and dominate the EU as a structure are NOT elected by you and me. I doubt anyone can name the 5 Presidents. I can't but then I don't care. FIVE Presidents and I never elected ONE! To think the EU in any way replicates the UK Parliamentary accountability is just fanciful. You always talk about losing sovereignty, when actually what the EU does is pool soverignty. At which point you lose your Sovereignty. Its not a bottle of water where we can all have a bit now and again. Sovereignty is a priceless gift that is held by ONE nation through its democracy unto itself. We lost that when we subsumed our lawmaking to the EU. And some 60% of all Laws, Regulations and Directives now come from the EU and not our own Sovereign Parliament. Exactly the same thing happens in the UK. The taxes I pay are not soley spent on my local area, a pound I pay in tax might build a hospital in Scotland, a pound of tax taken from Leeds might fund a school in Northern Ireland, and pound of taxation from Cardiff might pay the salary of the soldier who lives across the road. Without venturing into the huge unfairness of the Barnett Formula there is a HUGE difference in the UK tax and electoral system to the EU. Even given we now have 4 devolved Administrations (which have their own elected members) we each elect an MP to represent us in the Westminster Parliament which is Supreme in the United Kingdom. That Parliament is the source of UK Government no one else. It devolves execution of its powers in certain areas to those Administrations but retains Supremacy. In the EU the power (and therefore Sovereignty) is being sucked outwards into a foreign country. Our Courts are no longer Supreme but bow down to a court in a foreign country. 27 other countries can override our wishes and do so in this Parliament you suggested. The EU Parliament is an 'Assembly' it is not a source of Government and yet the EU acts like one. In a similar way you want voters in England and Wales to override the will of the people of Scotland and Northern Ireland with Brexit? If you could name me just the bishop that sits in the house of lords that you voted for that would be great, or if its easier perhaps just the last chancellor of rhe exchequer that you voted for? Or the last Head of State that you voted for. You are doing it again. As soon as you get a solid answer on one topic you shift your ground to something completely different. But OK... In the referendum it was a Binary vote of ALL the UK. The whole of the UK voted by a good majority on a high turnout to Leave. The whole of the UK expressed its will. Its that simple. The people like you constructing different 'country' votes are grabbing at straws or, like Sturgeon, playing dangerous political games. East Anglia never voted for a Labour Government for 13 years so were we 'ignored'? No its called Democracy. Bishops are appointed to an amending Upper House. They do not make Laws and can not deny laws from the elected House of Commons. Parliament is actually made up of two Houses but only the House of Commons is Supreme and passes legislation. As for Chancellors or Secretaries of State I think you are either being very silly or just being sarcastic and hardly worth a response. And of course we get the Monarchy thrown in for good measure. We as a country have a Parliamentary Monarchy where the Monarch is a titular Head of State and is non political. She (or He) is Commander in Chief of the military to separate it from the political body. The Monarch can dissolve any failing or even tyrannical Parliament handing power to the people and so acts as a safeguarding mechanism for our democracy. It is a proven system of Government. 16 other countries even choose OUR Head of State to be THEIR Head of State. Many others use our Parliamentary system as their system. To in any way suggest that the EU is a better model of democracy than ours is just making you look rather daft to be honest.
The Monarchy and the House of Lords are totally irrelevant to the EU debate but I guess you are now grabbing at anything to cause argument. Whats next? Shame on you.
House of lords democratic that's bushing the bounds of reality to far .first past the post system democratically fair ..unlikely ..
IN or OUT?
Democracy was done, end of "What's that got to do with the UK parliamentary system being undemocratic ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I'm no. American, I'm as British as Apple Crumble Ooops ... many apologies for the mistake. I am confusing with another couple. My bad. No taxation without representation huh? Representation would be nice as you say. In this country we do that through a parliament. I think we elect members to it. How about reform the EU to create some kind of a European Parliament? Maybe then we could vote on electing Members of the European Parliament? How does that comprise sound to you? Reasonable? Ah yes how clever. Except one problem. That EU Parliament only works when every Law is passed through it which isn't the case. And the people that control and dominate the EU as a structure are NOT elected by you and me. I doubt anyone can name the 5 Presidents. I can't but then I don't care. FIVE Presidents and I never elected ONE! To think the EU in any way replicates the UK Parliamentary accountability is just fanciful. You always talk about losing sovereignty, when actually what the EU does is pool soverignty. At which point you lose your Sovereignty. Its not a bottle of water where we can all have a bit now and again. Sovereignty is a priceless gift that is held by ONE nation through its democracy unto itself. We lost that when we subsumed our lawmaking to the EU. And some 60% of all Laws, Regulations and Directives now come from the EU and not our own Sovereign Parliament. Exactly the same thing happens in the UK. The taxes I pay are not soley spent on my local area, a pound I pay in tax might build a hospital in Scotland, a pound of tax taken from Leeds might fund a school in Northern Ireland, and pound of taxation from Cardiff might pay the salary of the soldier who lives across the road. Without venturing into the huge unfairness of the Barnett Formula there is a HUGE difference in the UK tax and electoral system to the EU. Even given we now have 4 devolved Administrations (which have their own elected members) we each elect an MP to represent us in the Westminster Parliament which is Supreme in the United Kingdom. That Parliament is the source of UK Government no one else. It devolves execution of its powers in certain areas to those Administrations but retains Supremacy. In the EU the power (and therefore Sovereignty) is being sucked outwards into a foreign country. Our Courts are no longer Supreme but bow down to a court in a foreign country. 27 other countries can override our wishes and do so in this Parliament you suggested. The EU Parliament is an 'Assembly' it is not a source of Government and yet the EU acts like one. In a similar way you want voters in England and Wales to override the will of the people of Scotland and Northern Ireland with Brexit? If you could name me just the bishop that sits in the house of lords that you voted for that would be great, or if its easier perhaps just the last chancellor of rhe exchequer that you voted for? Or the last Head of State that you voted for. You are doing it again. As soon as you get a solid answer on one topic you shift your ground to something completely different. But OK... In the referendum it was a Binary vote of ALL the UK. The whole of the UK voted by a good majority on a high turnout to Leave. The whole of the UK expressed its will. Its that simple. The people like you constructing different 'country' votes are grabbing at straws or, like Sturgeon, playing dangerous political games. East Anglia never voted for a Labour Government for 13 years so were we 'ignored'? No its called Democracy. Bishops are appointed to an amending Upper House. They do not make Laws and can not deny laws from the elected House of Commons. Parliament is actually made up of two Houses but only the House of Commons is Supreme and passes legislation. As for Chancellors or Secretaries of State I think you are either being very silly or just being sarcastic and hardly worth a response. And of course we get the Monarchy thrown in for good measure. We as a country have a Parliamentary Monarchy where the Monarch is a titular Head of State and is non political. She (or He) is Commander in Chief of the military to separate it from the political body. The Monarch can dissolve any failing or even tyrannical Parliament handing power to the people and so acts as a safeguarding mechanism for our democracy. It is a proven system of Government. 16 other countries even choose OUR Head of State to be THEIR Head of State. Many others use our Parliamentary system as their system. To in any way suggest that the EU is a better model of democracy than ours is just making you look rather daft to be honest.
The Monarchy and the House of Lords are totally irrelevant to the EU debate but I guess you are now grabbing at anything to cause argument. Whats next? Shame on you.
I'm saying that the EU is very similar to the UK democracy that we have. The President of the European Council has no executive powers, just like the head of State in the UK. They have the European Parliament and we have a parliament. We have a cabinet which is unelected and chosen by the prime minister, they have the commission which is also unelected and the UK's commissioner is also chosen by the PM. "That is a fair point to make. It is also fair to point out that EU legislation trumps ours. For people who believe that our own culture (no racist implication) and beliefs (same again) should prevail, that was a bitter pill to swallow. Not picking on any country/culture, but what is best for Europe is not what is best for us. I do hope I do not sound like Garage. I really don't get this European stuff. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I'm no. American, I'm as British as Apple Crumble Ooops ... many apologies for the mistake. I am confusing with another couple. My bad. No taxation without representation huh? Representation would be nice as you say. In this country we do that through a parliament. I think we elect members to it. How about reform the EU to create some kind of a European Parliament? Maybe then we could vote on electing Members of the European Parliament? How does that comprise sound to you? Reasonable? Ah yes how clever. Except one problem. That EU Parliament only works when every Law is passed through it which isn't the case. And the people that control and dominate the EU as a structure are NOT elected by you and me. I doubt anyone can name the 5 Presidents. I can't but then I don't care. FIVE Presidents and I never elected ONE! To think the EU in any way replicates the UK Parliamentary accountability is just fanciful. You always talk about losing sovereignty, when actually what the EU does is pool soverignty. At which point you lose your Sovereignty. Its not a bottle of water where we can all have a bit now and again. Sovereignty is a priceless gift that is held by ONE nation through its democracy unto itself. We lost that when we subsumed our lawmaking to the EU. And some 60% of all Laws, Regulations and Directives now come from the EU and not our own Sovereign Parliament. Exactly the same thing happens in the UK. The taxes I pay are not soley spent on my local area, a pound I pay in tax might build a hospital in Scotland, a pound of tax taken from Leeds might fund a school in Northern Ireland, and pound of taxation from Cardiff might pay the salary of the soldier who lives across the road. Without venturing into the huge unfairness of the Barnett Formula there is a HUGE difference in the UK tax and electoral system to the EU. Even given we now have 4 devolved Administrations (which have their own elected members) we each elect an MP to represent us in the Westminster Parliament which is Supreme in the United Kingdom. That Parliament is the source of UK Government no one else. It devolves execution of its powers in certain areas to those Administrations but retains Supremacy. In the EU the power (and therefore Sovereignty) is being sucked outwards into a foreign country. Our Courts are no longer Supreme but bow down to a court in a foreign country. 27 other countries can override our wishes and do so in this Parliament you suggested. The EU Parliament is an 'Assembly' it is not a source of Government and yet the EU acts like one. In a similar way you want voters in England and Wales to override the will of the people of Scotland and Northern Ireland with Brexit? If you could name me just the bishop that sits in the house of lords that you voted for that would be great, or if its easier perhaps just the last chancellor of rhe exchequer that you voted for? Or the last Head of State that you voted for. You are doing it again. As soon as you get a solid answer on one topic you shift your ground to something completely different. But OK... In the referendum it was a Binary vote of ALL the UK. The whole of the UK voted by a good majority on a high turnout to Leave. The whole of the UK expressed its will. Its that simple. The people like you constructing different 'country' votes are grabbing at straws or, like Sturgeon, playing dangerous political games. East Anglia never voted for a Labour Government for 13 years so were we 'ignored'? No its called Democracy. Bishops are appointed to an amending Upper House. They do not make Laws and can not deny laws from the elected House of Commons. Parliament is actually made up of two Houses but only the House of Commons is Supreme and passes legislation. As for Chancellors or Secretaries of State I think you are either being very silly or just being sarcastic and hardly worth a response. And of course we get the Monarchy thrown in for good measure. We as a country have a Parliamentary Monarchy where the Monarch is a titular Head of State and is non political. She (or He) is Commander in Chief of the military to separate it from the political body. The Monarch can dissolve any failing or even tyrannical Parliament handing power to the people and so acts as a safeguarding mechanism for our democracy. It is a proven system of Government. 16 other countries even choose OUR Head of State to be THEIR Head of State. Many others use our Parliamentary system as their system. To in any way suggest that the EU is a better model of democracy than ours is just making you look rather daft to be honest.
The Monarchy and the House of Lords are totally irrelevant to the EU debate but I guess you are now grabbing at anything to cause argument. Whats next? Shame on you.
I'm saying that the EU is very similar to the UK democracy that we have. The President of the European Council has no executive powers, just like the head of State in the UK. They have the European Parliament and we have a parliament. We have a cabinet which is unelected and chosen by the prime minister, they have the commission which is also unelected and the UK's commissioner is also chosen by the PM.
That is a fair point to make.
It is also fair to point out that EU legislation trumps ours.
For people who believe that our own culture (no racist implication) and beliefs (same again) should prevail, that was a bitter pill to swallow.
Not picking on any country/culture, but what is best for Europe is not what is best for us.
I do hope I do not sound like Garage. I really don't get this European stuff."But we are a part of Europe, its not some "other" we are it. I just think that no one ever feels as though there government is working for them. It doesn't matter if the government is 100 miles away or a 1000. HS2 isn't going to help me, I'll never use it. But obviously people think it's good for the country and so use my taxes on it. Hopefully it will then be good for the country and return more in taxation than the initial investment. I see Europe in the same way, but I accept that that is not a universally accepted view of it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I'm no. American, I'm as British as Apple Crumble Ooops ... many apologies for the mistake. I am confusing with another couple. My bad. No taxation without representation huh? Representation would be nice as you say. In this country we do that through a parliament. I think we elect members to it. How about reform the EU to create some kind of a European Parliament? Maybe then we could vote on electing Members of the European Parliament? How does that comprise sound to you? Reasonable? Ah yes how clever. Except one problem. That EU Parliament only works when every Law is passed through it which isn't the case. And the people that control and dominate the EU as a structure are NOT elected by you and me. I doubt anyone can name the 5 Presidents. I can't but then I don't care. FIVE Presidents and I never elected ONE! To think the EU in any way replicates the UK Parliamentary accountability is just fanciful. You always talk about losing sovereignty, when actually what the EU does is pool soverignty. At which point you lose your Sovereignty. Its not a bottle of water where we can all have a bit now and again. Sovereignty is a priceless gift that is held by ONE nation through its democracy unto itself. We lost that when we subsumed our lawmaking to the EU. And some 60% of all Laws, Regulations and Directives now come from the EU and not our own Sovereign Parliament. Exactly the same thing happens in the UK. The taxes I pay are not soley spent on my local area, a pound I pay in tax might build a hospital in Scotland, a pound of tax taken from Leeds might fund a school in Northern Ireland, and pound of taxation from Cardiff might pay the salary of the soldier who lives across the road. Without venturing into the huge unfairness of the Barnett Formula there is a HUGE difference in the UK tax and electoral system to the EU. Even given we now have 4 devolved Administrations (which have their own elected members) we each elect an MP to represent us in the Westminster Parliament which is Supreme in the United Kingdom. That Parliament is the source of UK Government no one else. It devolves execution of its powers in certain areas to those Administrations but retains Supremacy. In the EU the power (and therefore Sovereignty) is being sucked outwards into a foreign country. Our Courts are no longer Supreme but bow down to a court in a foreign country. 27 other countries can override our wishes and do so in this Parliament you suggested. The EU Parliament is an 'Assembly' it is not a source of Government and yet the EU acts like one. In a similar way you want voters in England and Wales to override the will of the people of Scotland and Northern Ireland with Brexit? If you could name me just the bishop that sits in the house of lords that you voted for that would be great, or if its easier perhaps just the last chancellor of rhe exchequer that you voted for? Or the last Head of State that you voted for. You are doing it again. As soon as you get a solid answer on one topic you shift your ground to something completely different. But OK... In the referendum it was a Binary vote of ALL the UK. The whole of the UK voted by a good majority on a high turnout to Leave. The whole of the UK expressed its will. Its that simple. The people like you constructing different 'country' votes are grabbing at straws or, like Sturgeon, playing dangerous political games. East Anglia never voted for a Labour Government for 13 years so were we 'ignored'? No its called Democracy. Bishops are appointed to an amending Upper House. They do not make Laws and can not deny laws from the elected House of Commons. Parliament is actually made up of two Houses but only the House of Commons is Supreme and passes legislation. As for Chancellors or Secretaries of State I think you are either being very silly or just being sarcastic and hardly worth a response. And of course we get the Monarchy thrown in for good measure. We as a country have a Parliamentary Monarchy where the Monarch is a titular Head of State and is non political. She (or He) is Commander in Chief of the military to separate it from the political body. The Monarch can dissolve any failing or even tyrannical Parliament handing power to the people and so acts as a safeguarding mechanism for our democracy. It is a proven system of Government. 16 other countries even choose OUR Head of State to be THEIR Head of State. Many others use our Parliamentary system as their system. To in any way suggest that the EU is a better model of democracy than ours is just making you look rather daft to be honest.
The Monarchy and the House of Lords are totally irrelevant to the EU debate but I guess you are now grabbing at anything to cause argument. Whats next? Shame on you.
I'm saying that the EU is very similar to the UK democracy that we have. The President of the European Council has no executive powers, just like the head of State in the UK. They have the European Parliament and we have a parliament. We have a cabinet which is unelected and chosen by the prime minister, they have the commission which is also unelected and the UK's commissioner is also chosen by the PM.
That is a fair point to make.
It is also fair to point out that EU legislation trumps ours.
For people who believe that our own culture (no racist implication) and beliefs (same again) should prevail, that was a bitter pill to swallow.
Not picking on any country/culture, but what is best for Europe is not what is best for us.
I do hope I do not sound like Garage. I really don't get this European stuff.
But we are a part of Europe, its not some "other" we are it. I just think that no one ever feels as though there government is working for them. It doesn't matter if the government is 100 miles away or a 1000. HS2 isn't going to help me, I'll never use it. But obviously people think it's good for the country and so use my taxes on it. Hopefully it will then be good for the country and return more in taxation than the initial investment. I see Europe in the same way, but I accept that that is not a universally accepted view of it."That is fine. Can you accept the concept that I do not like the EU deciding that our money should be spent on a building in Reigate or a project in Greece? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I'm no. American, I'm as British as Apple Crumble Ooops ... many apologies for the mistake. I am confusing with another couple. My bad. No taxation without representation huh? Representation would be nice as you say. In this country we do that through a parliament. I think we elect members to it. How about reform the EU to create some kind of a European Parliament? Maybe then we could vote on electing Members of the European Parliament? How does that comprise sound to you? Reasonable? Ah yes how clever. Except one problem. That EU Parliament only works when every Law is passed through it which isn't the case. And the people that control and dominate the EU as a structure are NOT elected by you and me. I doubt anyone can name the 5 Presidents. I can't but then I don't care. FIVE Presidents and I never elected ONE! To think the EU in any way replicates the UK Parliamentary accountability is just fanciful. You always talk about losing sovereignty, when actually what the EU does is pool soverignty. At which point you lose your Sovereignty. Its not a bottle of water where we can all have a bit now and again. Sovereignty is a priceless gift that is held by ONE nation through its democracy unto itself. We lost that when we subsumed our lawmaking to the EU. And some 60% of all Laws, Regulations and Directives now come from the EU and not our own Sovereign Parliament. Exactly the same thing happens in the UK. The taxes I pay are not soley spent on my local area, a pound I pay in tax might build a hospital in Scotland, a pound of tax taken from Leeds might fund a school in Northern Ireland, and pound of taxation from Cardiff might pay the salary of the soldier who lives across the road. Without venturing into the huge unfairness of the Barnett Formula there is a HUGE difference in the UK tax and electoral system to the EU. Even given we now have 4 devolved Administrations (which have their own elected members) we each elect an MP to represent us in the Westminster Parliament which is Supreme in the United Kingdom. That Parliament is the source of UK Government no one else. It devolves execution of its powers in certain areas to those Administrations but retains Supremacy. In the EU the power (and therefore Sovereignty) is being sucked outwards into a foreign country. Our Courts are no longer Supreme but bow down to a court in a foreign country. 27 other countries can override our wishes and do so in this Parliament you suggested. The EU Parliament is an 'Assembly' it is not a source of Government and yet the EU acts like one. In a similar way you want voters in England and Wales to override the will of the people of Scotland and Northern Ireland with Brexit? If you could name me just the bishop that sits in the house of lords that you voted for that would be great, or if its easier perhaps just the last chancellor of rhe exchequer that you voted for? Or the last Head of State that you voted for. You are doing it again. As soon as you get a solid answer on one topic you shift your ground to something completely different. But OK... In the referendum it was a Binary vote of ALL the UK. The whole of the UK voted by a good majority on a high turnout to Leave. The whole of the UK expressed its will. Its that simple. The people like you constructing different 'country' votes are grabbing at straws or, like Sturgeon, playing dangerous political games. East Anglia never voted for a Labour Government for 13 years so were we 'ignored'? No its called Democracy. Bishops are appointed to an amending Upper House. They do not make Laws and can not deny laws from the elected House of Commons. Parliament is actually made up of two Houses but only the House of Commons is Supreme and passes legislation. As for Chancellors or Secretaries of State I think you are either being very silly or just being sarcastic and hardly worth a response. And of course we get the Monarchy thrown in for good measure. We as a country have a Parliamentary Monarchy where the Monarch is a titular Head of State and is non political. She (or He) is Commander in Chief of the military to separate it from the political body. The Monarch can dissolve any failing or even tyrannical Parliament handing power to the people and so acts as a safeguarding mechanism for our democracy. It is a proven system of Government. 16 other countries even choose OUR Head of State to be THEIR Head of State. Many others use our Parliamentary system as their system. To in any way suggest that the EU is a better model of democracy than ours is just making you look rather daft to be honest.
The Monarchy and the House of Lords are totally irrelevant to the EU debate but I guess you are now grabbing at anything to cause argument. Whats next? Shame on you.
I'm saying that the EU is very similar to the UK democracy that we have. The President of the European Council has no executive powers, just like the head of State in the UK. They have the European Parliament and we have a parliament. We have a cabinet which is unelected and chosen by the prime minister, they have the commission which is also unelected and the UK's commissioner is also chosen by the PM.
That is a fair point to make.
It is also fair to point out that EU legislation trumps ours.
For people who believe that our own culture (no racist implication) and beliefs (same again) should prevail, that was a bitter pill to swallow.
Not picking on any country/culture, but what is best for Europe is not what is best for us.
I do hope I do not sound like Garage. I really don't get this European stuff.
But we are a part of Europe, its not some "other" we are it. I just think that no one ever feels as though there government is working for them. It doesn't matter if the government is 100 miles away or a 1000. HS2 isn't going to help me, I'll never use it. But obviously people think it's good for the country and so use my taxes on it. Hopefully it will then be good for the country and return more in taxation than the initial investment. I see Europe in the same way, but I accept that that is not a universally accepted view of it.
That is fine.
Can you accept the concept that I do not like the EU deciding that our money should be spent on a building in Reigate or a project in Greece?"Only if you accept that we have at least some input into that decision. Sound fair? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I'm no. American, I'm as British as Apple Crumble Ooops ... many apologies for the mistake. I am confusing with another couple. My bad. No taxation without representation huh? Representation would be nice as you say. In this country we do that through a parliament. I think we elect members to it. How about reform the EU to create some kind of a European Parliament? Maybe then we could vote on electing Members of the European Parliament? How does that comprise sound to you? Reasonable? Ah yes how clever. Except one problem. That EU Parliament only works when every Law is passed through it which isn't the case. And the people that control and dominate the EU as a structure are NOT elected by you and me. I doubt anyone can name the 5 Presidents. I can't but then I don't care. FIVE Presidents and I never elected ONE! To think the EU in any way replicates the UK Parliamentary accountability is just fanciful. And of course we get the Monarchy thrown in for good measure. We as a country have a Parliamentary Monarchy where the Monarch is a titular Head of State and is non political. She (or He) is Commander in Chief of the military to separate it from the political body. The Monarch can dissolve any failing or even tyrannical Parliament handing power to the people and so acts as a safeguarding mechanism for our democracy. It is a proven system of Government. 16 other countries even choose OUR Head of State to be THEIR Head of State. Many others use our Parliamentary system as their system. To in any way suggest that the EU is a better model of democracy than ours is just making you look rather daft to be honest. The Monarchy and the House of Lords are totally irrelevant to the EU debate but I guess you are now grabbing at anything to cause argument. Whats next? Shame on you. I'm saying that the EU is very similar to the UK democracy that we have. The President of the European Council has no executive powers, just like the head of State in the UK. They have the European Parliament and we have a parliament. We have a cabinet which is unelected and chosen by the prime minister, they have the commission which is also unelected and the UK's commissioner is also chosen by the PM. That is a fair point to make. It is also fair to point out that EU legislation trumps ours. For people who believe that our own culture (no racist implication) and beliefs (same again) should prevail, that was a bitter pill to swallow. Not picking on any country/culture, but what is best for Europe is not what is best for us. I do hope I do not sound like Garage. I really don't get this European stuff. But we are a part of Europe, its not some "other" we are it. I just think that no one ever feels as though there government is working for them. It doesn't matter if the government is 100 miles away or a 1000. HS2 isn't going to help me, I'll never use it. But obviously people think it's good for the country and so use my taxes on it. Hopefully it will then be good for the country and return more in taxation than the initial investment. I see Europe in the same way, but I accept that that is not a universally accepted view of it. You always talk about losing sovereignty, when actually what the EU does is pool soverignty. At which point you lose your Sovereignty. Its not a bottle of water where we can all have a bit now and again. Sovereignty is a priceless gift that is held by ONE nation through its democracy unto itself. We lost that when we subsumed our lawmaking to the EU. And some 60% of all Laws, Regulations and Directives now come from the EU and not our own Sovereign Parliament. Exactly the same thing happens in the UK. The taxes I pay are not soley spent on my local area, a pound I pay in tax might build a hospital in Scotland, a pound of tax taken from Leeds might fund a school in Northern Ireland, and pound of taxation from Cardiff might pay the salary of the soldier who lives across the road. Without venturing into the huge unfairness of the Barnett Formula there is a HUGE difference in the UK tax and electoral system to the EU. Even given we now have 4 devolved Administrations (which have their own elected members) we each elect an MP to represent us in the Westminster Parliament which is Supreme in the United Kingdom. That Parliament is the source of UK Government no one else. It devolves execution of its powers in certain areas to those Administrations but retains Supremacy. In the EU the power (and therefore Sovereignty) is being sucked outwards into a foreign country. Our Courts are no longer Supreme but bow down to a court in a foreign country. 27 other countries can override our wishes and do so in this Parliament you suggested. The EU Parliament is an 'Assembly' it is not a source of Government and yet the EU acts like one. In a similar way you want voters in England and Wales to override the will of the people of Scotland and Northern Ireland with Brexit? If you could name me just the bishop that sits in the house of lords that you voted for that would be great, or if its easier perhaps just the last chancellor of rhe exchequer that you voted for? Or the last Head of State that you voted for. You are doing it again. As soon as you get a solid answer on one topic you shift your ground to something completely different. But OK... In the referendum it was a Binary vote of ALL the UK. The whole of the UK voted by a good majority on a high turnout to Leave. The whole of the UK expressed its will. Its that simple. The people like you constructing different 'country' votes are grabbing at straws or, like Sturgeon, playing dangerous political games. East Anglia never voted for a Labour Government for 13 years so were we 'ignored'? No its called Democracy. Bishops are appointed to an amending Upper House. They do not make Laws and can not deny laws from the elected House of Commons. Parliament is actually made up of two Houses but only the House of Commons is Supreme and passes legislation. As for Chancellors or Secretaries of State I think you are either being very silly or just being sarcastic and hardly worth a response. And of course we get the Monarchy thrown in for good measure. We as a country have a Parliamentary Monarchy where the Monarch is a titular Head of State and is non political. She (or He) is Commander in Chief of the military to separate it from the political body. The Monarch can dissolve any failing or even tyrannical Parliament handing power to the people and so acts as a safeguarding mechanism for our democracy. It is a proven system of Government. 16 other countries even choose OUR Head of State to be THEIR Head of State. Many others use our Parliamentary system as their system. To in any way suggest that the EU is a better model of democracy than ours is just making you look rather daft to be honest.
The Monarchy and the House of Lords are totally irrelevant to the EU debate but I guess you are now grabbing at anything to cause argument. Whats next? Shame on you.
I'm saying that the EU is very similar to the UK democracy that we have. The President of the European Council has no executive powers, just like the head of State in the UK. They have the European Parliament and we have a parliament. We have a cabinet which is unelected and chosen by the prime minister, they have the commission which is also unelected and the UK's commissioner is also chosen by the PM.
That is a fair point to make.
It is also fair to point out that EU legislation trumps ours.
For people who believe that our own culture (no racist implication) and beliefs (same again) should prevail, that was a bitter pill to swallow.
Not picking on any country/culture, but what is best for Europe is not what is best for us.
I do hope I do not sound like Garage. I really don't get this European stuff.
But we are a part of Europe, its not some "other" we are it. I just think that no one ever feels as though there government is working for them. It doesn't matter if the government is 100 miles away or a 1000. HS2 isn't going to help me, I'll never use it. But obviously people think it's good for the country and so use my taxes on it. Hopefully it will then be good for the country and return more in taxation than the initial investment. I see Europe in the same way, but I accept that that is not a universally accepted view of it.
That is fine.
Can you accept the concept that I do not like the EU deciding that our money should be spent on a building in Reigate or a project in Greece?
Only if you accept that we have at least some input into that decision. Sound fair?"what is the point of coping all this time and time again? why do you do it folks? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I'm no. American, I'm as British as Apple Crumble Ooops ... many apologies for the mistake. I am confusing with another couple. My bad. No taxation without representation huh? Representation would be nice as you say. In this country we do that through a parliament. I think we elect members to it. How about reform the EU to create some kind of a European Parliament? Maybe then we could vote on electing Members of the European Parliament? How does that comprise sound to you? Reasonable? Ah yes how clever. Except one problem. That EU Parliament only works when every Law is passed through it which isn't the case. And the people that control and dominate the EU as a structure are NOT elected by you and me. I doubt anyone can name the 5 Presidents. I can't but then I don't care. FIVE Presidents and I never elected ONE! To think the EU in any way replicates the UK Parliamentary accountability is just fanciful. You always talk about losing sovereignty, when actually what the EU does is pool soverignty. At which point you lose your Sovereignty. Its not a bottle of water where we can all have a bit now and again. Sovereignty is a priceless gift that is held by ONE nation through its democracy unto itself. We lost that when we subsumed our lawmaking to the EU. And some 60% of all Laws, Regulations and Directives now come from the EU and not our own Sovereign Parliament. Exactly the same thing happens in the UK. The taxes I pay are not soley spent on my local area, a pound I pay in tax might build a hospital in Scotland, a pound of tax taken from Leeds might fund a school in Northern Ireland, and pound of taxation from Cardiff might pay the salary of the soldier who lives across the road. Without venturing into the huge unfairness of the Barnett Formula there is a HUGE difference in the UK tax and electoral system to the EU. Even given we now have 4 devolved Administrations (which have their own elected members) we each elect an MP to represent us in the Westminster Parliament which is Supreme in the United Kingdom. That Parliament is the source of UK Government no one else. It devolves execution of its powers in certain areas to those Administrations but retains Supremacy. In the EU the power (and therefore Sovereignty) is being sucked outwards into a foreign country. Our Courts are no longer Supreme but bow down to a court in a foreign country. 27 other countries can override our wishes and do so in this Parliament you suggested. The EU Parliament is an 'Assembly' it is not a source of Government and yet the EU acts like one. In a similar way you want voters in England and Wales to override the will of the people of Scotland and Northern Ireland with Brexit? If you could name me just the bishop that sits in the house of lords that you voted for that would be great, or if its easier perhaps just the last chancellor of rhe exchequer that you voted for? Or the last Head of State that you voted for. You are doing it again. As soon as you get a solid answer on one topic you shift your ground to something completely different. But OK... In the referendum it was a Binary vote of ALL the UK. The whole of the UK voted by a good majority on a high turnout to Leave. The whole of the UK expressed its will. Its that simple. The people like you constructing different 'country' votes are grabbing at straws or, like Sturgeon, playing dangerous political games. East Anglia never voted for a Labour Government for 13 years so were we 'ignored'? No its called Democracy. Bishops are appointed to an amending Upper House. They do not make Laws and can not deny laws from the elected House of Commons. Parliament is actually made up of two Houses but only the House of Commons is Supreme and passes legislation. As for Chancellors or Secretaries of State I think you are either being very silly or just being sarcastic and hardly worth a response. And of course we get the Monarchy thrown in for good measure. We as a country have a Parliamentary Monarchy where the Monarch is a titular Head of State and is non political. She (or He) is Commander in Chief of the military to separate it from the political body. The Monarch can dissolve any failing or even tyrannical Parliament handing power to the people and so acts as a safeguarding mechanism for our democracy. It is a proven system of Government. 16 other countries even choose OUR Head of State to be THEIR Head of State. Many others use our Parliamentary system as their system. To in any way suggest that the EU is a better model of democracy than ours is just making you look rather daft to be honest.
The Monarchy and the House of Lords are totally irrelevant to the EU debate but I guess you are now grabbing at anything to cause argument. Whats next? Shame on you.
I'm saying that the EU is very similar to the UK democracy that we have. The President of the European Council has no executive powers, just like the head of State in the UK. They have the European Parliament and we have a parliament. We have a cabinet which is unelected and chosen by the prime minister, they have the commission which is also unelected and the UK's commissioner is also chosen by the PM.
That is a fair point to make.
It is also fair to point out that EU legislation trumps ours.
For people who believe that our own culture (no racist implication) and beliefs (same again) should prevail, that was a bitter pill to swallow.
Not picking on any country/culture, but what is best for Europe is not what is best for us.
I do hope I do not sound like Garage. I really don't get this European stuff.
But we are a part of Europe, its not some "other" we are it. I just think that no one ever feels as though there government is working for them. It doesn't matter if the government is 100 miles away or a 1000. HS2 isn't going to help me, I'll never use it. But obviously people think it's good for the country and so use my taxes on it. Hopefully it will then be good for the country and return more in taxation than the initial investment. I see Europe in the same way, but I accept that that is not a universally accepted view of it.
That is fine.
Can you accept the concept that I do not like the EU deciding that our money should be spent on a building in Reigate or a project in Greece?
Only if you accept that we have at least some input into that decision. Sound fair?"You clearly think otherwise and I admire your European view. Call me introspective, but if there is a few quid in the coffers, I would prefer it to be spent here. Is that bad? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You clearly think otherwise and I admire your European view. Call me introspective, but if there is a few quid in the coffers, I would prefer it to be spent here. Is that bad? " And there in one simple paragraph you capture what Brexit was really all about. Well said  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"When we leave the EU, should we insist that an extra £350m per week is given to the NHS? We know that this is not going to happen and we also know that Devon, Cornwall, Wales and north will not get the funding it currently gets and we know that the £13 billion EU post grad and scientific funding grants to UK universities will also evaporate. What should happen is that when the full terms of the EU exit are agreed Farage, Gove, Johnson and the others should come back on TV and either face their failures or - be applauded for their courage if that is how it turns out. Somehow, I still agree with the sentiment issued by virtually every credible economic forecaster from before the referendum and I foresee a declining economy, more austerity, higher taxes and a significant brain drain where the brightest and most talented seek wider opportunities elsewhere. I disagree, we will be better off now doing better trade deals globally, with the high growth economies in the world, no longer tied to a declining and stagnating EU. London will continue to be a major financial centre in the world and Britain will continue to attract the best and brightest people to come and live and work here from everywhere on the globe (not just any Tom, Dick or Harry from the EU coming here just because they posses an EU passport). Any further trade deals globally will only produce the same results as the UK china deal ..3 times more imports than exports further killing British industry ...attract bright people you're having a laugh back to the brain drain of the 70's will be more like reality What wrong with importing cheap stuff? Do you seriously wish there were more brain dead production line jobs in this country? It killed the motorbike industry the car industry the textile industry hasn't done the electronics industry any favours . What's left banking ? To go ..then British can truly be a nation of shopkeepers.. Meanwhile in Spain where you live you can look forward to sky high unemployment figures thanks to Spain being a member of the EU. Easy to find work here .. it found both of us .but that what happens as we live our lives not just rely on reading about them ..maybe when you gain more experience in real life you will understand but I doubt it " So there's plenty of work for all in the Canaries, then? According to EURES, the European Job Mobility Portal, unemployment in the Canary Islands stands at over 25%. Bit of an 'I'm alright Jack' attitude you have. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"When we leave the EU, should we insist that an extra £350m per week is given to the NHS? We know that this is not going to happen and we also know that Devon, Cornwall, Wales and north will not get the funding it currently gets and we know that the £13 billion EU post grad and scientific funding grants to UK universities will also evaporate. What should happen is that when the full terms of the EU exit are agreed Farage, Gove, Johnson and the others should come back on TV and either face their failures or - be applauded for their courage if that is how it turns out. Somehow, I still agree with the sentiment issued by virtually every credible economic forecaster from before the referendum and I foresee a declining economy, more austerity, higher taxes and a significant brain drain where the brightest and most talented seek wider opportunities elsewhere. I disagree, we will be better off now doing better trade deals globally, with the high growth economies in the world, no longer tied to a declining and stagnating EU. London will continue to be a major financial centre in the world and Britain will continue to attract the best and brightest people to come and live and work here from everywhere on the globe (not just any Tom, Dick or Harry from the EU coming here just because they posses an EU passport). Any further trade deals globally will only produce the same results as the UK china deal ..3 times more imports than exports further killing British industry ...attract bright people you're having a laugh back to the brain drain of the 70's will be more like reality What wrong with importing cheap stuff? Do you seriously wish there were more brain dead production line jobs in this country? It killed the motorbike industry the car industry the textile industry hasn't done the electronics industry any favours . What's left banking ? To go ..then British can truly be a nation of shopkeepers.. Meanwhile in Spain where you live you can look forward to sky high unemployment figures thanks to Spain being a member of the EU. Easy to find work here .. it found both of us .but that what happens as we live our lives not just rely on reading about them ..maybe when you gain more experience in real life you will understand but I doubt it So there's plenty of work for all in the Canaries, then? According to EURES, the European Job Mobility Portal, unemployment in the Canary Islands stands at over 25%. Bit of an 'I'm alright Jack' attitude you have." That is dreadful. You obviously think that we should invest capital in the Canaries? Where else? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"When we leave the EU, should we insist that an extra £350m per week is given to the NHS? Who are you going to insist to? Didn't you see all the brexit politicians piss off after the result came in Guess you haven't been watching the news over the past week Really, Boris is PM and Farage is riding high? I think you will find Boris will make a good name for himself and do well for the UK, he hasn't been in his position a week and he is well in at the deep end with France & Turkey Try giving people a chance rather than being smug and putting people down" Boris did an excellent job of running London during his 2 terms as mayor The guy makes gaffs and some times says the wrong things, but hey arnt we guilty of that | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"When we leave the EU, should we insist that an extra £350m per week is given to the NHS? We know that this is not going to happen and we also know that Devon, Cornwall, Wales and north will not get the funding it currently gets and we know that the £13 billion EU post grad and scientific funding grants to UK universities will also evaporate. What should happen is that when the full terms of the EU exit are agreed Farage, Gove, Johnson and the others should come back on TV and either face their failures or - be applauded for their courage if that is how it turns out. Somehow, I still agree with the sentiment issued by virtually every credible economic forecaster from before the referendum and I foresee a declining economy, more austerity, higher taxes and a significant brain drain where the brightest and most talented seek wider opportunities elsewhere. I disagree, we will be better off now doing better trade deals globally, with the high growth economies in the world, no longer tied to a declining and stagnating EU. London will continue to be a major financial centre in the world and Britain will continue to attract the best and brightest people to come and live and work here from everywhere on the globe (not just any Tom, Dick or Harry from the EU coming here just because they posses an EU passport). Any further trade deals globally will only produce the same results as the UK china deal ..3 times more imports than exports further killing British industry ...attract bright people you're having a laugh back to the brain drain of the 70's will be more like reality What wrong with importing cheap stuff? Do you seriously wish there were more brain dead production line jobs in this country? It killed the motorbike industry the car industry the textile industry hasn't done the electronics industry any favours . What's left banking ? To go ..then British can truly be a nation of shopkeepers.. Meanwhile in Spain where you live you can look forward to sky high unemployment figures thanks to Spain being a member of the EU. Easy to find work here .. it found both of us .but that what happens as we live our lives not just rely on reading about them ..maybe when you gain more experience in real life you will understand but I doubt it So there's plenty of work for all in the Canaries, then? According to EURES, the European Job Mobility Portal, unemployment in the Canary Islands stands at over 25%. Bit of an 'I'm alright Jack' attitude you have. That is dreadful. You obviously think that we should invest capital in the Canaries? Where else?" No, I don't, I believe we should be investing it in the UK first. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"When we leave the EU, should we insist that an extra £350m per week is given to the NHS? We know that this is not going to happen and we also know that Devon, Cornwall, Wales and north will not get the funding it currently gets and we know that the £13 billion EU post grad and scientific funding grants to UK universities will also evaporate. What should happen is that when the full terms of the EU exit are agreed Farage, Gove, Johnson and the others should come back on TV and either face their failures or - be applauded for their courage if that is how it turns out. Somehow, I still agree with the sentiment issued by virtually every credible economic forecaster from before the referendum and I foresee a declining economy, more austerity, higher taxes and a significant brain drain where the brightest and most talented seek wider opportunities elsewhere. I disagree, we will be better off now doing better trade deals globally, with the high growth economies in the world, no longer tied to a declining and stagnating EU. London will continue to be a major financial centre in the world and Britain will continue to attract the best and brightest people to come and live and work here from everywhere on the globe (not just any Tom, Dick or Harry from the EU coming here just because they posses an EU passport). Any further trade deals globally will only produce the same results as the UK china deal ..3 times more imports than exports further killing British industry ...attract bright people you're having a laugh back to the brain drain of the 70's will be more like reality What wrong with importing cheap stuff? Do you seriously wish there were more brain dead production line jobs in this country? It killed the motorbike industry the car industry the textile industry hasn't done the electronics industry any favours . What's left banking ? To go ..then British can truly be a nation of shopkeepers.. Meanwhile in Spain where you live you can look forward to sky high unemployment figures thanks to Spain being a member of the EU. Easy to find work here .. it found both of us .but that what happens as we live our lives not just rely on reading about them ..maybe when you gain more experience in real life you will understand but I doubt it So there's plenty of work for all in the Canaries, then? According to EURES, the European Job Mobility Portal, unemployment in the Canary Islands stands at over 25%. Bit of an 'I'm alright Jack' attitude you have. That is dreadful. You obviously think that we should invest capital in the Canaries? Where else?" Why would i want the UK to invest over here ?..believe it or not Europe doesn't revolve around the UK ..there plenty of other Europeans investing here ...nice to make the islands more multi cultural.other than the Brits Spanish Germans and Italians .. | |||
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"When we leave the EU, should we insist that an extra £350m per week is given to the NHS? We know that this is not going to happen and we also know that Devon, Cornwall, Wales and north will not get the funding it currently gets and we know that the £13 billion EU post grad and scientific funding grants to UK universities will also evaporate. What should happen is that when the full terms of the EU exit are agreed Farage, Gove, Johnson and the others should come back on TV and either face their failures or - be applauded for their courage if that is how it turns out. Somehow, I still agree with the sentiment issued by virtually every credible economic forecaster from before the referendum and I foresee a declining economy, more austerity, higher taxes and a significant brain drain where the brightest and most talented seek wider opportunities elsewhere. I disagree, we will be better off now doing better trade deals globally, with the high growth economies in the world, no longer tied to a declining and stagnating EU. London will continue to be a major financial centre in the world and Britain will continue to attract the best and brightest people to come and live and work here from everywhere on the globe (not just any Tom, Dick or Harry from the EU coming here just because they posses an EU passport). Any further trade deals globally will only produce the same results as the UK china deal ..3 times more imports than exports further killing British industry ...attract bright people you're having a laugh back to the brain drain of the 70's will be more like reality What wrong with importing cheap stuff? Do you seriously wish there were more brain dead production line jobs in this country? It killed the motorbike industry the car industry the textile industry hasn't done the electronics industry any favours . What's left banking ? To go ..then British can truly be a nation of shopkeepers.. Meanwhile in Spain where you live you can look forward to sky high unemployment figures thanks to Spain being a member of the EU. Easy to find work here .. it found both of us .but that what happens as we live our lives not just rely on reading about them ..maybe when you gain more experience in real life you will understand but I doubt it So there's plenty of work for all in the Canaries, then? According to EURES, the European Job Mobility Portal, unemployment in the Canary Islands stands at over 25%. Bit of an 'I'm alright Jack' attitude you have. That is dreadful. You obviously think that we should invest capital in the Canaries? Where else? Why would i want the UK to invest over here ?..believe it or not Europe doesn't revolve around the UK ..there plenty of other Europeans investing here ...nice to make the islands more multi cultural.other than the Brits Spanish Germans and Italians .." I invested in the Canaries in 1987! Lived and worked there through till the late 1990's. Great times and great memories. | |||
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"We won't be leaving the EU. As soon as the brexit fantasists have to start dealing with the reality of exit negotiations for two years and another 7 years at best negotiation a trade deal with just one country let alone all of the fuckers, boris and co will one by one slink off and May will look at the shambles of failed promises the brexit people deliver and declare it isn't in britains interests. She won't even get the blame. Those chancers, liars, self important opportunists and thicko's in the Tory party and ukip will be the ones who have failed to deliver. What's more the people will have changed their mind by then as the details and facts slowly reveal themselves to show the brexit a lies up, while the youth show their opinion in even greater numbers while a lot of the leave voters die off. " What utter rubbish. Exiting the EU itself will not take 2 years. That is a maximum under the Lisbon Treaty. And we do NOT need the agreement of 27 nations to doi it. we leave when it suits us. We could do it in 6 months. Trade and relationship issues are separate (as the EU has said). And if the EU bureaucracy can't handle a quick deal then fine we stay as we are because under WTO rules the EU will not be allowed to punish or treat us differently while negotiating. And its their loss if they try to. And meanwhile we can rewrite current trade deals arranged for us kindly by the EU as UK deals with one Enabling / Hybrid Act of Parliament. Game on. | |||
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" What utter rubbish. Exiting the EU itself will not take 2 years. That is a maximum under the Lisbon Treaty. And we do NOT need the agreement of 27 nations to doi it. we leave when it suits us. We could do it in 6 months. Trade and relationship issues are separate (as the EU has said). And if the EU bureaucracy can't handle a quick deal then fine we stay as we are because under WTO rules the EU will not be allowed to punish or treat us differently while negotiating. And its their loss if they try to. And meanwhile we can rewrite current trade deals arranged for us kindly by the EU as UK deals with one Enabling / Hybrid Act of Parliament. Game on." This just goes to show how deluded and/or misinformed you Brexiters are. That is what happens when you decide experts are worth listening to. The only bit true in your post is that we don't need the permission of any other countries to leave the EU. While it might be technically true to say that Trade and Relationship issues are separate, the two are so intertwined they cannot realistically be separated. Also, to say 'if the EU beaurocrats can't handle a quick deal' shows you up. The have 600 trade negotiators. We have 20. Who do you think is better placed to handle a quick deal? Or perhaps you aren't that bothered about the terms of our exit or the terms of the trade deal we replace our current ones with? Actually, I know you aren't. The reason I know you aren't is you said 'And meanwhile we can rewrite current trade deals arranged for us kindly by the EU as UK deals with one Enabling / Hybrid Act of Parliament.' Ha ha. There we have it. You might as well have said 'we are British. When we leave, other countries will just have to agree to the terms we want, don't you know.' The sheer arrogance. Not to mention dim wittedness. We might want to replace our trading relationships with other nations to have identical ones we have as part of the EU, but who is to say they will? Almost all of them will wait to see the outcome of our own Brexit and our new relationship with the EU. The reason for that is a lot of foregin countries liked dealing with us in large part because it also gave them access to the single market, to the largest economy in the world. Now, there might be a country that was prepared to give us free trade on certain items because, for example, they wanted their citizens to be able to get their hands on those nice german cars. That was an acceptable trade off for them. They might not find Fords, Vauxhalls and Nissans as attractive a swap. In any case, for the UK, it isn't about goods. Our economy is 80% service based and heaviliy reliant on Financial Services. We have a privileged place, having the infrastructure, reputation, history and our place in the EU. With regard to the WTO rules. When we leave our trading terms with the EU automatically defer to the WTO rules. You seem to think that by saying the EU can't punish us means they have to keep trading with us under the terms we have at the moment with the EU. These are preferential terms because we have a trade agreement with the EU that is better than we would have under WTO rules. The WTO rules are the default position, but they aren't very good. That is why most countries have or want to negotiate better treaties. The EU can't impose any punitive sanctions on us for leaving, but most countries or trading blocs these days have better terms. Effectively therefore we will be at a disadvantage. If you don't think that, ask yourself, why have some many countries negotiated, or are negotiating their own specific trade deals with the EU despite having to abide by all their rules and standards, with the costs that come with it? Because it is worth it to them. Two years to negotiate Brexit, then another 7 to negotiate our new deal with the EU if we are lucky. Then we will be able to start further negotiations with the rest of the world, individually, country by country. I bet it's nearer 20 years before we are where we are now. We might indeed get even more suiable deals, but it could have taken us that long the benefit is negligible because we have fallen so far. As I say, it won't happen. They details will be too full of devils any PM will pull the deal. | |||
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" What utter rubbish. Exiting the EU itself will not take 2 years. That is a maximum under the Lisbon Treaty. And we do NOT need the agreement of 27 nations to doi it. we leave when it suits us. We could do it in 6 months. Trade and relationship issues are separate (as the EU has said). And if the EU bureaucracy can't handle a quick deal then fine we stay as we are because under WTO rules the EU will not be allowed to punish or treat us differently while negotiating. And its their loss if they try to. And meanwhile we can rewrite current trade deals arranged for us kindly by the EU as UK deals with one Enabling / Hybrid Act of Parliament. Game on. This just goes to show how deluded and/or misinformed you Brexiters are. That is what happens when you decide experts are worth listening to. The only bit true in your post is that we don't need the permission of any other countries to leave the EU. While it might be technically true to say that Trade and Relationship issues are separate, the two are so intertwined they cannot realistically be separated. Also, to say 'if the EU beaurocrats can't handle a quick deal' shows you up. The have 600 trade negotiators. We have 20. Who do you think is better placed to handle a quick deal? Or perhaps you aren't that bothered about the terms of our exit or the terms of the trade deal we replace our current ones with? Actually, I know you aren't. The reason I know you aren't is you said 'And meanwhile we can rewrite current trade deals arranged for us kindly by the EU as UK deals with one Enabling / Hybrid Act of Parliament.' Ha ha. There we have it. You might as well have said 'we are British. When we leave, other countries will just have to agree to the terms we want, don't you know.' The sheer arrogance. Not to mention dim wittedness. We might want to replace our trading relationships with other nations to have identical ones we have as part of the EU, but who is to say they will? Almost all of them will wait to see the outcome of our own Brexit and our new relationship with the EU. The reason for that is a lot of foregin countries liked dealing with us in large part because it also gave them access to the single market, to the largest economy in the world. Now, there might be a country that was prepared to give us free trade on certain items because, for example, they wanted their citizens to be able to get their hands on those nice german cars. That was an acceptable trade off for them. They might not find Fords, Vauxhalls and Nissans as attractive a swap. In any case, for the UK, it isn't about goods. Our economy is 80% service based and heaviliy reliant on Financial Services. We have a privileged place, having the infrastructure, reputation, history and our place in the EU. With regard to the WTO rules. When we leave our trading terms with the EU automatically defer to the WTO rules. You seem to think that by saying the EU can't punish us means they have to keep trading with us under the terms we have at the moment with the EU. These are preferential terms because we have a trade agreement with the EU that is better than we would have under WTO rules. The WTO rules are the default position, but they aren't very good. That is why most countries have or want to negotiate better treaties. The EU can't impose any punitive sanctions on us for leaving, but most countries or trading blocs these days have better terms. Effectively therefore we will be at a disadvantage. If you don't think that, ask yourself, why have some many countries negotiated, or are negotiating their own specific trade deals with the EU despite having to abide by all their rules and standards, with the costs that come with it? Because it is worth it to them. Two years to negotiate Brexit, then another 7 to negotiate our new deal with the EU if we are lucky. Then we will be able to start further negotiations with the rest of the world, individually, country by country. I bet it's nearer 20 years before we are where we are now. We might indeed get even more suiable deals, but it could have taken us that long the benefit is negligible because we have fallen so far. As I say, it won't happen. They details will be too full of devils any PM will pull the deal. " | |||
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" What utter rubbish. Exiting the EU itself will not take 2 years. That is a maximum under the Lisbon Treaty. And we do NOT need the agreement of 27 nations to doi it. we leave when it suits us. We could do it in 6 months. Trade and relationship issues are separate (as the EU has said). And if the EU bureaucracy can't handle a quick deal then fine we stay as we are because under WTO rules the EU will not be allowed to punish or treat us differently while negotiating. And its their loss if they try to. And meanwhile we can rewrite current trade deals arranged for us kindly by the EU as UK deals with one Enabling / Hybrid Act of Parliament. Game on. This just goes to show how deluded and/or misinformed you Brexiters are. That is what happens when you decide experts are worth listening to. The only bit true in your post is that we don't need the permission of any other countries to leave the EU. While it might be technically true to say that Trade and Relationship issues are separate, the two are so intertwined they cannot realistically be separated. Also, to say 'if the EU beaurocrats can't handle a quick deal' shows you up. The have 600 trade negotiators. We have 20. Who do you think is better placed to handle a quick deal? Or perhaps you aren't that bothered about the terms of our exit or the terms of the trade deal we replace our current ones with? Actually, I know you aren't. The reason I know you aren't is you said 'And meanwhile we can rewrite current trade deals arranged for us kindly by the EU as UK deals with one Enabling / Hybrid Act of Parliament.' Ha ha. There we have it. You might as well have said 'we are British. When we leave, other countries will just have to agree to the terms we want, don't you know.' The sheer arrogance. Not to mention dim wittedness. We might want to replace our trading relationships with other nations to have identical ones we have as part of the EU, but who is to say they will? Almost all of them will wait to see the outcome of our own Brexit and our new relationship with the EU. The reason for that is a lot of foregin countries liked dealing with us in large part because it also gave them access to the single market, to the largest economy in the world. Now, there might be a country that was prepared to give us free trade on certain items because, for example, they wanted their citizens to be able to get their hands on those nice german cars. That was an acceptable trade off for them. They might not find Fords, Vauxhalls and Nissans as attractive a swap. In any case, for the UK, it isn't about goods. Our economy is 80% service based and heaviliy reliant on Financial Services. We have a privileged place, having the infrastructure, reputation, history and our place in the EU. With regard to the WTO rules. When we leave our trading terms with the EU automatically defer to the WTO rules. You seem to think that by saying the EU can't punish us means they have to keep trading with us under the terms we have at the moment with the EU. These are preferential terms because we have a trade agreement with the EU that is better than we would have under WTO rules. The WTO rules are the default position, but they aren't very good. That is why most countries have or want to negotiate better treaties. The EU can't impose any punitive sanctions on us for leaving, but most countries or trading blocs these days have better terms. Effectively therefore we will be at a disadvantage. If you don't think that, ask yourself, why have some many countries negotiated, or are negotiating their own specific trade deals with the EU despite having to abide by all their rules and standards, with the costs that come with it? Because it is worth it to them. Two years to negotiate Brexit, then another 7 to negotiate our new deal with the EU if we are lucky. Then we will be able to start further negotiations with the rest of the world, individually, country by country. I bet it's nearer 20 years before we are where we are now. We might indeed get even more suiable deals, but it could have taken us that long the benefit is negligible because we have fallen so far. As I say, it won't happen. They details will be too full of devils any PM will pull the deal. " Oh dear more sarcasm .... Never mind lets crack on: You jumped to an assumption. I was saying we can leave the EU relatively quickly. Indeed the EU itself has said clearly we MUST leave BEFORE the trade deals start. they are in NO WAY connected. So it sort of makes the rest of your comments (and sadly the sarcasm) unfounded. So it will NOT take 2 years to leave the EU. Agree status of EU and UK citizens and that is it. Pass an Enabling / Hybrid Bill to convert any unique EU law to UK law (although most are already in UK Law sadly). Pass an Enabling / Hybrid Bill to subsume EU and other trade deals into UK Law. And your assumption no one will deal with us until after Brexit is already well out of date. Countries are making it very clear they wish to do deals NOW. Then see how long the EU take to do a new deal. The EU cannot penalise us for leaving as the WTO protects our current position. Yes: Our CURRENT position. You say 'WTO Rules'. Do you actually know the WTO does not set duties it just lays down rules of adherence and regulates that adherence. No I thought you didn't. It was THAT bureaucracy I was referring to and I don't care how many trade negotiators they have. They need us more than we need them. After all we have to BORROW £61 Bn a year just to fund the trade deficit WITH the EU. It actually COSTS us that money to trade with the EU. You don't seem to understand that... Any private business would stop trading at a loss .. So cut the sarccy comments and talk facts OK? | |||
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" What utter rubbish. Exiting the EU itself will not take 2 years. That is a maximum under the Lisbon Treaty. And we do NOT need the agreement of 27 nations to doi it. we leave when it suits us. We could do it in 6 months. Trade and relationship issues are separate (as the EU has said). And if the EU bureaucracy can't handle a quick deal then fine we stay as we are because under WTO rules the EU will not be allowed to punish or treat us differently while negotiating. And its their loss if they try to. And meanwhile we can rewrite current trade deals arranged for us kindly by the EU as UK deals with one Enabling / Hybrid Act of Parliament. Game on. This just goes to show how deluded and/or misinformed you Brexiters are. That is what happens when you decide experts are worth listening to. The only bit true in your post is that we don't need the permission of any other countries to leave the EU. While it might be technically true to say that Trade and Relationship issues are separate, the two are so intertwined they cannot realistically be separated. Also, to say 'if the EU beaurocrats can't handle a quick deal' shows you up. The have 600 trade negotiators. We have 20. Who do you think is better placed to handle a quick deal? Or perhaps you aren't that bothered about the terms of our exit or the terms of the trade deal we replace our current ones with? Actually, I know you aren't. The reason I know you aren't is you said 'And meanwhile we can rewrite current trade deals arranged for us kindly by the EU as UK deals with one Enabling / Hybrid Act of Parliament.' Ha ha. There we have it. You might as well have said 'we are British. When we leave, other countries will just have to agree to the terms we want, don't you know.' The sheer arrogance. Not to mention dim wittedness. We might want to replace our trading relationships with other nations to have identical ones we have as part of the EU, but who is to say they will? Almost all of them will wait to see the outcome of our own Brexit and our new relationship with the EU. The reason for that is a lot of foregin countries liked dealing with us in large part because it also gave them access to the single market, to the largest economy in the world. Now, there might be a country that was prepared to give us free trade on certain items because, for example, they wanted their citizens to be able to get their hands on those nice german cars. That was an acceptable trade off for them. They might not find Fords, Vauxhalls and Nissans as attractive a swap. In any case, for the UK, it isn't about goods. Our economy is 80% service based and heaviliy reliant on Financial Services. We have a privileged place, having the infrastructure, reputation, history and our place in the EU. With regard to the WTO rules. When we leave our trading terms with the EU automatically defer to the WTO rules. You seem to think that by saying the EU can't punish us means they have to keep trading with us under the terms we have at the moment with the EU. These are preferential terms because we have a trade agreement with the EU that is better than we would have under WTO rules. The WTO rules are the default position, but they aren't very good. That is why most countries have or want to negotiate better treaties. The EU can't impose any punitive sanctions on us for leaving, but most countries or trading blocs these days have better terms. Effectively therefore we will be at a disadvantage. If you don't think that, ask yourself, why have some many countries negotiated, or are negotiating their own specific trade deals with the EU despite having to abide by all their rules and standards, with the costs that come with it? Because it is worth it to them. Two years to negotiate Brexit, then another 7 to negotiate our new deal with the EU if we are lucky. Then we will be able to start further negotiations with the rest of the world, individually, country by country. I bet it's nearer 20 years before we are where we are now. We might indeed get even more suiable deals, but it could have taken us that long the benefit is negligible because we have fallen so far. As I say, it won't happen. They details will be too full of devils any PM will pull the deal. Oh dear more sarcasm .... Never mind lets crack on: You jumped to an assumption. I was saying we can leave the EU relatively quickly. Indeed the EU itself has said clearly we MUST leave BEFORE the trade deals start. they are in NO WAY connected. So it sort of makes the rest of your comments (and sadly the sarcasm) unfounded. So it will NOT take 2 years to leave the EU. Agree status of EU and UK citizens and that is it. Pass an Enabling / Hybrid Bill to convert any unique EU law to UK law (although most are already in UK Law sadly). Pass an Enabling / Hybrid Bill to subsume EU and other trade deals into UK Law. And your assumption no one will deal with us until after Brexit is already well out of date. Countries are making it very clear they wish to do deals NOW. Then see how long the EU take to do a new deal. The EU cannot penalise us for leaving as the WTO protects our current position. Yes: Our CURRENT position. You say 'WTO Rules'. Do you actually know the WTO does not set duties it just lays down rules of adherence and regulates that adherence. No I thought you didn't. It was THAT bureaucracy I was referring to and I don't care how many trade negotiators they have. They need us more than we need them. After all we have to BORROW £61 Bn a year just to fund the trade deficit WITH the EU. It actually COSTS us that money to trade with the EU. You don't seem to understand that... Any private business would stop trading at a loss .. So cut the sarccy comments and talk facts OK?" So you claim that when we leave the EU we will keep the same trading agreement that we currently have? I just want to check that thats what you are saying. So why will we need a trade deal with them then? | |||
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" So you claim that when we leave the EU we will keep the same trading agreement that we currently have? I just want to check that thats what you are saying. So why will we need a trade deal with them then?" Straight after Brexit and while negotiations are ongoing yes. And yes we may have to accept free movement in that interim but we will not have to pay the contributions. The WTO Rules you so happily quote clearly state that (in this case) the EU can not penalise us or levy higher duties than an equivalent country. Given we are the ONLY country the status quo must prevail. Of course the EU could make a statement that negotiations are ended and try to treat us under MFN status. We could appeal to the WTO and a stalemate ensues. Or we could just accept that they are ended. At which point German car workers start getting laid off and Mrs Merkel will have a few very angry industry bosses to answer to in an election year. We need a new trade deal because the EU is a Customs Union with very high protectionist barriers to non members. But again they make a gross profit of some £77 Billion in gooods and a nett profit of £61 Billion every year. The importance of the EU (now we have left) is diminishing just in simple economic terms because it is smaller. It has been diminishing in trade terms to us for years as we have expanded our non-EU trade. And this trade will boom once we get rid of the shackles imposed by the EU. I hope this has helped your confusion .. | |||
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" So you claim that when we leave the EU we will keep the same trading agreement that we currently have? I just want to check that thats what you are saying. So why will we need a trade deal with them then? Straight after Brexit and while negotiations are ongoing yes. And yes we may have to accept free movement in that interim but we will not have to pay the contributions. The WTO Rules you so happily quote clearly state that (in this case) the EU can not penalise us or levy higher duties than an equivalent country. Given we are the ONLY country the status quo must prevail. Of course the EU could make a statement that negotiations are ended and try to treat us under MFN status. We could appeal to the WTO and a stalemate ensues. Or we could just accept that they are ended. At which point German car workers start getting laid off and Mrs Merkel will have a few very angry industry bosses to answer to in an election year. We need a new trade deal because the EU is a Customs Union with very high protectionist barriers to non members. But again they make a gross profit of some £77 Billion in gooods and a nett profit of £61 Billion every year. The importance of the EU (now we have left) is diminishing just in simple economic terms because it is smaller. It has been diminishing in trade terms to us for years as we have expanded our non-EU trade. And this trade will boom once we get rid of the shackles imposed by the EU. I hope this has helped your confusion .. " No not really because none of its true! How can we leave, have the same deal as now and yet still have to negotiate a trade deal as well? I would swear you have shares in BMW for the amount you go one about the german car market. | |||
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" No not really because none of its true! How can we leave, have the same deal as now and yet still have to negotiate a trade deal as well? " Do pay attention: I said 'in the interim' while a new permanent deal is negotiated. Or else what are you saying? We have NO deal the moment we leave? The WTO would step right in there... " I would swear you have shares in BMW for the amount you go one about the german car market." Oh dearie me .... It is not just me. The leader of German Industry has said quite clearly any trade tariffs would be suicidal for the EU and particularly the German car industry. Why? Because we are Germany's biggest single car market worth over E18 Billion in 2015. In 2015 530,688 German built cars in the Top Ten alone were sold in the UK. All but 3 of the Top ten were German. There are over 1,300 British companies in Germany employing over 220,000 people. Almost every 10th foreign company in Germany is British. Total British Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) in Germany currently amounts to £23.8 billion. You think the Germans want all that shut down because of a bunch of idiots in the EU playing politics? Now Germany is the big paymaster after we leave what they want they will get. And they NEED a good deal. Not us. we lose £61 Bn every year to the Eu in trade. And we have to borrow that foreign currency. | |||
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" When people resort to insults they have lost the argument." Poppycock. | |||
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" There are over 1,300 British companies in Germany employing over 220,000 people. Almost every 10th foreign company in Germany is British. Total British Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) in Germany currently amounts to £23.8 billion. You think the Germans want all that shut down because of a bunch of idiots in the EU playing politics? " You do realise if any one country leaves the EU and is seen to flourish. Then the EU will be seen as a failure. You say "because of a bunch of idiots in the EU playing politics", is exactly what they are doing as it is in their interest to keep the Union together. Without being doom mongerer, as I hope like fuck we come out of this well. If our bankers pull out of London and follow their pay cheques and move to European countries, it will not be long before investment is hit just as hard. Junker has a project. Other countries that are thinking about pulling out but don't have such diverse economy as ours will be looking at ours as a test run. If we are successful or if it is made easy, do you honestly think relocation of business is that difficult a choice once the major source of revenue has gone? That being economic trade??????? | |||
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" There are over 1,300 British companies in Germany employing over 220,000 people. Almost every 10th foreign company in Germany is British. Total British Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) in Germany currently amounts to £23.8 billion. You think the Germans want all that shut down because of a bunch of idiots in the EU playing politics? You do realise if any one country leaves the EU and is seen to flourish. Then the EU will be seen as a failure. You say "because of a bunch of idiots in the EU playing politics", is exactly what they are doing as it is in their interest to keep the Union together. Without being doom mongerer, as I hope like fuck we come out of this well. If our bankers pull out of London and follow their pay cheques and move to European countries, it will not be long before investment is hit just as hard. Junker has a project. Other countries that are thinking about pulling out but don't have such diverse economy as ours will be looking at ours as a test run. If we are successful or if it is made easy, do you honestly think relocation of business is that difficult a choice once the major source of revenue has gone? That being economic trade???????" Excellent points well made and that is my worry and I voted Leave. We are assuming that the EU Elite will act sensibly for the best interests of the citizens of the EU. Sadly their track record is not good but I believe, hope even, that now there are really only two big contributors to the EU (Germany and France) the industrial forces and those making huge amounts of money from the UK will pull the political idiots in from trying to make an example of us. Indeed the WTO has rules on it but it is better to agree a sensible, mutually beneficial framework and go our own separate ways. Personally I think the EU experiment is fatally flawed and we will be followed as soon as next year by someone else. Time will tell... | |||
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" No not really because none of its true! How can we leave, have the same deal as now and yet still have to negotiate a trade deal as well? Do pay attention: I said 'in the interim' while a new permanent deal is negotiated. Or else what are you saying? We have NO deal the moment we leave? The WTO would step right in there... I would swear you have shares in BMW for the amount you go one about the german car market. Oh dearie me .... It is not just me. The leader of German Industry has said quite clearly any trade tariffs would be suicidal for the EU and particularly the German car industry. Why? Because we are Germany's biggest single car market worth over E18 Billion in 2015. In 2015 530,688 German built cars in the Top Ten alone were sold in the UK. All but 3 of the Top ten were German. There are over 1,300 British companies in Germany employing over 220,000 people. Almost every 10th foreign company in Germany is British. Total British Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) in Germany currently amounts to £23.8 billion. You think the Germans want all that shut down because of a bunch of idiots in the EU playing politics? Now Germany is the big paymaster after we leave what they want they will get. And they NEED a good deal. Not us. we lose £61 Bn every year to the Eu in trade. And we have to borrow that foreign currency." You seem to be struggling with your own argument here. We are currently in the single market yes? There are no tariffs between the UK and other EU member states, right? You say that when we leave it will be under the same rules as we are currently under. So when we leave, automatically there will be no tariffs between the UK and the EU. Is that what you are saying? If so, your argument is that it is currently 0% tariff, when we leave it wil automatically be 0% tariff. So if after we have left we already have 0% tariffs, why would we have to arrange another trade deal? The tariffs couldn't get lower than 0% so what would we be negotiating? | |||
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" No not really because none of its true! How can we leave, have the same deal as now and yet still have to negotiate a trade deal as well? Do pay attention: I said 'in the interim' while a new permanent deal is negotiated. Or else what are you saying? We have NO deal the moment we leave? The WTO would step right in there... I would swear you have shares in BMW for the amount you go one about the german car market. Oh dearie me .... It is not just me. The leader of German Industry has said quite clearly any trade tariffs would be suicidal for the EU and particularly the German car industry. Why? Because we are Germany's biggest single car market worth over E18 Billion in 2015. In 2015 530,688 German built cars in the Top Ten alone were sold in the UK. All but 3 of the Top ten were German. There are over 1,300 British companies in Germany employing over 220,000 people. Almost every 10th foreign company in Germany is British. Total British Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) in Germany currently amounts to £23.8 billion. You think the Germans want all that shut down because of a bunch of idiots in the EU playing politics? Now Germany is the big paymaster after we leave what they want they will get. And they NEED a good deal. Not us. we lose £61 Bn every year to the Eu in trade. And we have to borrow that foreign currency. You seem to be struggling with your own argument here. We are currently in the single market yes? There are no tariffs between the UK and other EU member states, right? You say that when we leave it will be under the same rules as we are currently under. So when we leave, automatically there will be no tariffs between the UK and the EU. Is that what you are saying? If so, your argument is that it is currently 0% tariff, when we leave it wil automatically be 0% tariff. So if after we have left we already have 0% tariffs, why would we have to arrange another trade deal? The tariffs couldn't get lower than 0% so what would we be negotiating? " What part of 'in the interim' are you not able to comprehend exactly? Oh wait no you aren't discussing or understanding are you? You are just trying another way to cause another silly argument. Sorry... I am out. | |||
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" No not really because none of its true! How can we leave, have the same deal as now and yet still have to negotiate a trade deal as well? Do pay attention: I said 'in the interim' while a new permanent deal is negotiated. Or else what are you saying? We have NO deal the moment we leave? The WTO would step right in there... I would swear you have shares in BMW for the amount you go one about the german car market. Oh dearie me .... It is not just me. The leader of German Industry has said quite clearly any trade tariffs would be suicidal for the EU and particularly the German car industry. Why? Because we are Germany's biggest single car market worth over E18 Billion in 2015. In 2015 530,688 German built cars in the Top Ten alone were sold in the UK. All but 3 of the Top ten were German. There are over 1,300 British companies in Germany employing over 220,000 people. Almost every 10th foreign company in Germany is British. Total British Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) in Germany currently amounts to £23.8 billion. You think the Germans want all that shut down because of a bunch of idiots in the EU playing politics? Now Germany is the big paymaster after we leave what they want they will get. And they NEED a good deal. Not us. we lose £61 Bn every year to the Eu in trade. And we have to borrow that foreign currency. You seem to be struggling with your own argument here. We are currently in the single market yes? There are no tariffs between the UK and other EU member states, right? You say that when we leave it will be under the same rules as we are currently under. So when we leave, automatically there will be no tariffs between the UK and the EU. Is that what you are saying? If so, your argument is that it is currently 0% tariff, when we leave it wil automatically be 0% tariff. So if after we have left we already have 0% tariffs, why would we have to arrange another trade deal? The tariffs couldn't get lower than 0% so what would we be negotiating? What part of 'in the interim' are you not able to comprehend exactly? Oh wait no you aren't discussing or understanding are you? You are just trying another way to cause another silly argument. Sorry... I am out." Why the need for interim deal we are still a full member now when the UK leaves its either a deal with the EU trade under wto surely .... | |||
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" No not really because none of its true! How can we leave, have the same deal as now and yet still have to negotiate a trade deal as well? Do pay attention: I said 'in the interim' while a new permanent deal is negotiated. Or else what are you saying? We have NO deal the moment we leave? The WTO would step right in there... I would swear you have shares in BMW for the amount you go one about the german car market. Oh dearie me .... It is not just me. The leader of German Industry has said quite clearly any trade tariffs would be suicidal for the EU and particularly the German car industry. Why? Because we are Germany's biggest single car market worth over E18 Billion in 2015. In 2015 530,688 German built cars in the Top Ten alone were sold in the UK. All but 3 of the Top ten were German. There are over 1,300 British companies in Germany employing over 220,000 people. Almost every 10th foreign company in Germany is British. Total British Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) in Germany currently amounts to £23.8 billion. You think the Germans want all that shut down because of a bunch of idiots in the EU playing politics? Now Germany is the big paymaster after we leave what they want they will get. And they NEED a good deal. Not us. we lose £61 Bn every year to the Eu in trade. And we have to borrow that foreign currency. You seem to be struggling with your own argument here. We are currently in the single market yes? There are no tariffs between the UK and other EU member states, right? You say that when we leave it will be under the same rules as we are currently under. So when we leave, automatically there will be no tariffs between the UK and the EU. Is that what you are saying? If so, your argument is that it is currently 0% tariff, when we leave it wil automatically be 0% tariff. So if after we have left we already have 0% tariffs, why would we have to arrange another trade deal? The tariffs couldn't get lower than 0% so what would we be negotiating? What part of 'in the interim' are you not able to comprehend exactly? Oh wait no you aren't discussing or understanding are you? You are just trying another way to cause another silly argument. Sorry... I am out." I understand what interim means but you are saying we would go from 0% to an interim of 0% to negotiate for years to achieve a trade deal of 0% tariffs. Why do a trade deal if we already have 0%? Why not keep WTO rules in perpetuity? | |||
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" No not really because none of its true! How can we leave, have the same deal as now and yet still have to negotiate a trade deal as well? Do pay attention: I said 'in the interim' while a new permanent deal is negotiated. Or else what are you saying? We have NO deal the moment we leave? The WTO would step right in there... I would swear you have shares in BMW for the amount you go one about the german car market. Oh dearie me .... It is not just me. The leader of German Industry has said quite clearly any trade tariffs would be suicidal for the EU and particularly the German car industry. Why? Because we are Germany's biggest single car market worth over E18 Billion in 2015. In 2015 530,688 German built cars in the Top Ten alone were sold in the UK. All but 3 of the Top ten were German. There are over 1,300 British companies in Germany employing over 220,000 people. Almost every 10th foreign company in Germany is British. Total British Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) in Germany currently amounts to £23.8 billion. You think the Germans want all that shut down because of a bunch of idiots in the EU playing politics? Now Germany is the big paymaster after we leave what they want they will get. And they NEED a good deal. Not us. we lose £61 Bn every year to the Eu in trade. And we have to borrow that foreign currency. You seem to be struggling with your own argument here. We are currently in the single market yes? There are no tariffs between the UK and other EU member states, right? You say that when we leave it will be under the same rules as we are currently under. So when we leave, automatically there will be no tariffs between the UK and the EU. Is that what you are saying? If so, your argument is that it is currently 0% tariff, when we leave it wil automatically be 0% tariff. So if after we have left we already have 0% tariffs, why would we have to arrange another trade deal? The tariffs couldn't get lower than 0% so what would we be negotiating? What part of 'in the interim' are you not able to comprehend exactly? Oh wait no you aren't discussing or understanding are you? You are just trying another way to cause another silly argument. Sorry... I am out. Why the need for interim deal we are still a full member now when the UK leaves its either a deal with the EU trade under wto surely ...." And between leaving the EU formally (before which no discussions can take place according to the EU) and agreeing a new trade deal with the EU what happens? The status quo as no country can be penalised or discriminated against under WTO rules. And it would be under the auspices of the WTO. They do not make the rules or draft the Tariffs / duties they make sure those agreed are adhered to. | |||
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" No not really because none of its true! How can we leave, have the same deal as now and yet still have to negotiate a trade deal as well? Do pay attention: I said 'in the interim' while a new permanent deal is negotiated. Or else what are you saying? We have NO deal the moment we leave? The WTO would step right in there... I would swear you have shares in BMW for the amount you go one about the german car market. Oh dearie me .... It is not just me. The leader of German Industry has said quite clearly any trade tariffs would be suicidal for the EU and particularly the German car industry. Why? Because we are Germany's biggest single car market worth over E18 Billion in 2015. In 2015 530,688 German built cars in the Top Ten alone were sold in the UK. All but 3 of the Top ten were German. There are over 1,300 British companies in Germany employing over 220,000 people. Almost every 10th foreign company in Germany is British. Total British Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) in Germany currently amounts to £23.8 billion. You think the Germans want all that shut down because of a bunch of idiots in the EU playing politics? Now Germany is the big paymaster after we leave what they want they will get. And they NEED a good deal. Not us. we lose £61 Bn every year to the Eu in trade. And we have to borrow that foreign currency. You seem to be struggling with your own argument here. We are currently in the single market yes? There are no tariffs between the UK and other EU member states, right? You say that when we leave it will be under the same rules as we are currently under. So when we leave, automatically there will be no tariffs between the UK and the EU. Is that what you are saying? If so, your argument is that it is currently 0% tariff, when we leave it wil automatically be 0% tariff. So if after we have left we already have 0% tariffs, why would we have to arrange another trade deal? The tariffs couldn't get lower than 0% so what would we be negotiating? What part of 'in the interim' are you not able to comprehend exactly? Oh wait no you aren't discussing or understanding are you? You are just trying another way to cause another silly argument. Sorry... I am out. Why the need for interim deal we are still a full member now when the UK leaves its either a deal with the EU trade under wto surely .... And between leaving the EU formally (before which no discussions can take place according to the EU) and agreeing a new trade deal with the EU what happens? The status quo as no country can be penalised or discriminated against under WTO rules. And it would be under the auspices of the WTO. They do not make the rules or draft the Tariffs / duties they make sure those agreed are adhered to." We trade under Wto rules ...like the brexiters want .. | |||
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" No not really because none of its true! How can we leave, have the same deal as now and yet still have to negotiate a trade deal as well? Do pay attention: I said 'in the interim' while a new permanent deal is negotiated. Or else what are you saying? We have NO deal the moment we leave? The WTO would step right in there... I would swear you have shares in BMW for the amount you go one about the german car market. Oh dearie me .... It is not just me. The leader of German Industry has said quite clearly any trade tariffs would be suicidal for the EU and particularly the German car industry. Why? Because we are Germany's biggest single car market worth over E18 Billion in 2015. In 2015 530,688 German built cars in the Top Ten alone were sold in the UK. All but 3 of the Top ten were German. There are over 1,300 British companies in Germany employing over 220,000 people. Almost every 10th foreign company in Germany is British. Total British Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) in Germany currently amounts to £23.8 billion. You think the Germans want all that shut down because of a bunch of idiots in the EU playing politics? Now Germany is the big paymaster after we leave what they want they will get. And they NEED a good deal. Not us. we lose £61 Bn every year to the Eu in trade. And we have to borrow that foreign currency. You seem to be struggling with your own argument here. We are currently in the single market yes? There are no tariffs between the UK and other EU member states, right? You say that when we leave it will be under the same rules as we are currently under. So when we leave, automatically there will be no tariffs between the UK and the EU. Is that what you are saying? If so, your argument is that it is currently 0% tariff, when we leave it wil automatically be 0% tariff. So if after we have left we already have 0% tariffs, why would we have to arrange another trade deal? The tariffs couldn't get lower than 0% so what would we be negotiating? What part of 'in the interim' are you not able to comprehend exactly? Oh wait no you aren't discussing or understanding are you? You are just trying another way to cause another silly argument. Sorry... I am out. Why the need for interim deal we are still a full member now when the UK leaves its either a deal with the EU trade under wto surely .... And between leaving the EU formally (before which no discussions can take place according to the EU) and agreeing a new trade deal with the EU what happens? The status quo as no country can be penalised or discriminated against under WTO rules. And it would be under the auspices of the WTO. They do not make the rules or draft the Tariffs / duties they make sure those agreed are adhered to." Are you talking about the period between triggering Article 50 and actually leaving? We are still members of the EU until we leave to so will will be trading as a member state, not under WTO rules. After we leave we will be under WTO rules (which are not 0% tariffs) until we negotiate a new trade deal with them which will probably take 7 years or more to negotiate, and a further two to ratify. | |||
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" No not really because none of its true! How can we leave, have the same deal as now and yet still have to negotiate a trade deal as well? Do pay attention: I said 'in the interim' while a new permanent deal is negotiated. Or else what are you saying? We have NO deal the moment we leave? The WTO would step right in there... I would swear you have shares in BMW for the amount you go one about the german car market. Oh dearie me .... It is not just me. The leader of German Industry has said quite clearly any trade tariffs would be suicidal for the EU and particularly the German car industry. Why? Because we are Germany's biggest single car market worth over E18 Billion in 2015. In 2015 530,688 German built cars in the Top Ten alone were sold in the UK. All but 3 of the Top ten were German. There are over 1,300 British companies in Germany employing over 220,000 people. Almost every 10th foreign company in Germany is British. Total British Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) in Germany currently amounts to £23.8 billion. You think the Germans want all that shut down because of a bunch of idiots in the EU playing politics? Now Germany is the big paymaster after we leave what they want they will get. And they NEED a good deal. Not us. we lose £61 Bn every year to the Eu in trade. And we have to borrow that foreign currency. You seem to be struggling with your own argument here. We are currently in the single market yes? There are no tariffs between the UK and other EU member states, right? You say that when we leave it will be under the same rules as we are currently under. So when we leave, automatically there will be no tariffs between the UK and the EU. Is that what you are saying? If so, your argument is that it is currently 0% tariff, when we leave it wil automatically be 0% tariff. So if after we have left we already have 0% tariffs, why would we have to arrange another trade deal? The tariffs couldn't get lower than 0% so what would we be negotiating? What part of 'in the interim' are you not able to comprehend exactly? Oh wait no you aren't discussing or understanding are you? You are just trying another way to cause another silly argument. Sorry... I am out. Why the need for interim deal we are still a full member now when the UK leaves its either a deal with the EU trade under wto surely .... And between leaving the EU formally (before which no discussions can take place according to the EU) and agreeing a new trade deal with the EU what happens? The status quo as no country can be penalised or discriminated against under WTO rules. And it would be under the auspices of the WTO. They do not make the rules or draft the Tariffs / duties they make sure those agreed are adhered to." what it really says is one country cannot be penalised more than any other but all must either penalised the same or not all the eu tariff on cars alone is 10 percent | |||
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" what it really says is one country cannot be penalised more than any other but all must either penalised the same or not all the eu tariff on cars alone is 10 percent " Exactly. The way the WTO rules work is whatever the highest tariff if, that's the tariff you use. So if you have a tariff of 40% on agricultural goods from Venezuela for example, your trade under WTO rules will also have to have a 40% tariff on agricultural goods. Then different trariff levels for different sectors of the economy. | |||
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" No not really because none of its true! How can we leave, have the same deal as now and yet still have to negotiate a trade deal as well? Do pay attention: I said 'in the interim' while a new permanent deal is negotiated. Or else what are you saying? We have NO deal the moment we leave? The WTO would step right in there... I would swear you have shares in BMW for the amount you go one about the german car market. Oh dearie me .... It is not just me. The leader of German Industry has said quite clearly any trade tariffs would be suicidal for the EU and particularly the German car industry. Why? Because we are Germany's biggest single car market worth over E18 Billion in 2015. In 2015 530,688 German built cars in the Top Ten alone were sold in the UK. All but 3 of the Top ten were German. There are over 1,300 British companies in Germany employing over 220,000 people. Almost every 10th foreign company in Germany is British. Total British Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) in Germany currently amounts to £23.8 billion. You think the Germans want all that shut down because of a bunch of idiots in the EU playing politics? Now Germany is the big paymaster after we leave what they want they will get. And they NEED a good deal. Not us. we lose £61 Bn every year to the Eu in trade. And we have to borrow that foreign currency. You seem to be struggling with your own argument here. We are currently in the single market yes? There are no tariffs between the UK and other EU member states, right? You say that when we leave it will be under the same rules as we are currently under. So when we leave, automatically there will be no tariffs between the UK and the EU. Is that what you are saying? If so, your argument is that it is currently 0% tariff, when we leave it wil automatically be 0% tariff. So if after we have left we already have 0% tariffs, why would we have to arrange another trade deal? The tariffs couldn't get lower than 0% so what would we be negotiating? What part of 'in the interim' are you not able to comprehend exactly? Oh wait no you aren't discussing or understanding are you? You are just trying another way to cause another silly argument. Sorry... I am out. I understand what interim means but you are saying we would go from 0% to an interim of 0% to negotiate for years to achieve a trade deal of 0% tariffs. Why do a trade deal if we already have 0%? Why not keep WTO rules in perpetuity? " Because it's Interim until it becomes permanent. FFS. | |||
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" No not really because none of its true! How can we leave, have the same deal as now and yet still have to negotiate a trade deal as well? Do pay attention: I said 'in the interim' while a new permanent deal is negotiated. Or else what are you saying? We have NO deal the moment we leave? The WTO would step right in there... I would swear you have shares in BMW for the amount you go one about the german car market. Oh dearie me .... It is not just me. The leader of German Industry has said quite clearly any trade tariffs would be suicidal for the EU and particularly the German car industry. Why? Because we are Germany's biggest single car market worth over E18 Billion in 2015. In 2015 530,688 German built cars in the Top Ten alone were sold in the UK. All but 3 of the Top ten were German. There are over 1,300 British companies in Germany employing over 220,000 people. Almost every 10th foreign company in Germany is British. Total British Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) in Germany currently amounts to £23.8 billion. You think the Germans want all that shut down because of a bunch of idiots in the EU playing politics? Now Germany is the big paymaster after we leave what they want they will get. And they NEED a good deal. Not us. we lose £61 Bn every year to the Eu in trade. And we have to borrow that foreign currency. You seem to be struggling with your own argument here. We are currently in the single market yes? There are no tariffs between the UK and other EU member states, right? You say that when we leave it will be under the same rules as we are currently under. So when we leave, automatically there will be no tariffs between the UK and the EU. Is that what you are saying? If so, your argument is that it is currently 0% tariff, when we leave it wil automatically be 0% tariff. So if after we have left we already have 0% tariffs, why would we have to arrange another trade deal? The tariffs couldn't get lower than 0% so what would we be negotiating? What part of 'in the interim' are you not able to comprehend exactly? Oh wait no you aren't discussing or understanding are you? You are just trying another way to cause another silly argument. Sorry... I am out. I understand what interim means but you are saying we would go from 0% to an interim of 0% to negotiate for years to achieve a trade deal of 0% tariffs. Why do a trade deal if we already have 0%? Why not keep WTO rules in perpetuity? Because it's Interim until it becomes permanent. FFS. " The whole suggestion is absolute nonsense! If WTO trade deals are 0% tariff already, then why even bother with a trade deal? | |||
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" what it really says is one country cannot be penalised more than any other but all must either penalised the same or not all the eu tariff on cars alone is 10 percent Exactly. The way the WTO rules work is whatever the highest tariff if, that's the tariff you use. So if you have a tariff of 40% on agricultural goods from Venezuela for example, your trade under WTO rules will also have to have a 40% tariff on agricultural goods. Then different trariff levels for different sectors of the economy." Utter crap. Sorry but you just quietly made a key and deliberate error. You said: "The way the WTO rules work is whatever the highest tariff if, that's the tariff you use" It does no such thing. If Country A agrees to a tariff of x% on a particular set of goods with country B then THAT is what is monitored by the WTO provided every other country has the same Tariff. It has nothing to do with having to go to the highest Tariff. Indeed the WTO is committed to removing Tariffs and barriers as are ALL WTO member states. Someone mentioned cars. So currently we have to impose an EU duty of 10% on US cars coming into the UK. So once the 'interim tariff' period had ended, no new agreement was made and we fell back on those Tariffs UK cars going to say Germany, would face a 10% Duty. And guess what? We would then impose a 10% duty on all EU cars coming here. And the WTO would monitor THOSE tariffs and duties. And it is for THAT reason the Germans will never allow the EU to play silly beggars with their automotive industry and their biggest single market. And here is the other key factor: When you run a trade surplus you do not want Duties. When you run a trade deficit duties are a good way to reduce imports. And the mathematics are that should we levy a 10% duty on EU goods across the board then the UK Treasury gets a windfall bonus of £6.1 Billion a year as we run a £61 Bn deficit. Yes that means UK consumers will pay more. Its their choice and they may choose NOT to buy German cars. Its a free choice. A 10% EU Duty on our goods will actually have no effect on UK prices given the recent depreciation in the £ / Euro of more than 10%. The common sense thing would be for the EU and UK to agree a Tariff Free trade agreement.... | |||
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" And meanwhile we can rewrite current trade deals arranged for us kindly by the EU as UK deals with one Enabling / Hybrid Act of Parliament. Game on." I know that you don’t like experts, but here is the opinion of the Director General of the WTO on your suggestion "If Britain voted to leave the EU it would not be allowed to simply “cut and paste” those terms, Mr Azevêdo said. Britain would have to strike a deal on everything from the thousands of tariff lines covering its entire trade portfolio to quotas on agricultural exports, subsidies to British farmers and the access to other markets that banks and other UK services companies now enjoy. “Pretty much all of the UK’s trade [with the world] would somehow have to be negotiated,” he said. “ https://next.ft.com/content/745d0ea2-222d-11e6-9d4d-c11776a5124d | |||
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" what it really says is one country cannot be penalised more than any other but all must either penalised the same or not all the eu tariff on cars alone is 10 percent Exactly. The way the WTO rules work is whatever the highest tariff if, that's the tariff you use. So if you have a tariff of 40% on agricultural goods from Venezuela for example, your trade under WTO rules will also have to have a 40% tariff on agricultural goods. Then different trariff levels for different sectors of the economy. Utter crap. Sorry but you just quietly made a key and deliberate error. You said: "The way the WTO rules work is whatever the highest tariff if, that's the tariff you use" It does no such thing. If Country A agrees to a tariff of x% on a particular set of goods with country B then THAT is what is monitored by the WTO provided every other country has the same Tariff. It has nothing to do with having to go to the highest Tariff. Indeed the WTO is committed to removing Tariffs and barriers as are ALL WTO member states. Someone mentioned cars. So currently we have to impose an EU duty of 10% on US cars coming into the UK. So once the 'interim tariff' period had ended, no new agreement was made and we fell back on those Tariffs UK cars going to say Germany, would face a 10% Duty. And guess what? We would then impose a 10% duty on all EU cars coming here. And the WTO would monitor THOSE tariffs and duties. And it is for THAT reason the Germans will never allow the EU to play silly beggars with their automotive industry and their biggest single market. And here is the other key factor: When you run a trade surplus you do not want Duties. When you run a trade deficit duties are a good way to reduce imports. And the mathematics are that should we levy a 10% duty on EU goods across the board then the UK Treasury gets a windfall bonus of £6.1 Billion a year as we run a £61 Bn deficit. Yes that means UK consumers will pay more. Its their choice and they may choose NOT to buy German cars. Its a free choice. A 10% EU Duty on our goods will actually have no effect on UK prices given the recent depreciation in the £ / Euro of more than 10%. The common sense thing would be for the EU and UK to agree a Tariff Free trade agreement...." Again to look at the explanation of the Director General of the WTO "An exit from the EU, for example, would cause the UK to lose the preferential access to other markets covered by 36 trade agreements with 58 countries negotiated by the EU. As a result, to remain compliant with WTO rules the UK would have to impose higher “most favoured nation” tariffs on imports from those 58 countries, while they would have to levy their own surcharges on British exports, Mr Azevêdo said." | |||
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" And it is for THAT reason the Germans will never allow the EU to play silly beggars with their automotive industry and their biggest single market. " Whoa whoa whoa can we rewind a little bit here?, so where exactly is the German automotive industry's biggest single market? | |||
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"I think the poster believes it is the UK. Its an often quoted 'statistic' but I have never seen anyone link to an actual credible source. I can see for BMW their market is (2015) 1. China 20.6% 2. USA 18.1% 3. Germany 12.7% 4. UK 10.3% 5. France 3.5% 6. Italy 3.2% 7. Japan 3.1% 8. All the rest 28.5% For Audi (2013) 1. China 30.5% 2. UK 17.35% 3. Germany 14.1% 4. USA 8.7% 5. France 3.1% 6. Italy 2.8% Europe, excluding UK and Germany is 17.99% of Audi Sales. " Maybe go and check where those cars are built and to where they are exported. All BMW Z range and x range cars for the US market are actually built in the USA for example. All cars for China (I believe) are built in China. JLR now has a plant in China as well... But read what the German Media say: "Almost one in three cars, or 810,000 cars sold in Britain, come from Germany, making the British island the biggest export destination for German car producers. It is around a fifth of the total number the industry exports worldwide, according to the German car association, VDA. Britain reached a new market high of 2.6 million car registrations in 2015 – 86 percent of which were not produced in the UK." https://global.handelsblatt.com/edition/456/ressort/companies-markets/article/car-industry-would-bounce-back-experts-say | |||
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"You weren't lied to by Vote Leave Are you fir real the leave campaign was nothing but lies Show us when ever we have paid 350 mil per week to the EU ? Show us what date turkey is joining the EU ...and the four other nations mentioned in the great brexit Lie You were lied to by the Remain campaign. George Osborne said there would have to be an emergency budget if we did a Brexit and now Philip Hammond is the new chancellor of the exchequer and says an emergency budget is NOT needed. No because budgetary priorities have had to change since the referendum ..the UK 's debts can now go up unabated . So you can file the emergency budget with the other fairy stories Osborne came out with then. "More and more of the Remain campaign bullshit is being exposed now as the weeks pass by. I watched channel 4 news earlier and it said the IMF is saying the UK will not go into any kind of recession. Cameron and Osborne were both adament that the UK would go into a self inflicted recession if we did a Brexit, (they called it a DIY recession) it's very clear that most of what they said now was bullshit, nothing more than fairy stories with no basis in any truth or fact. In fact the IMF are now saying the UK will be one of, if not the highest growth rate economy in the G7 next year. Also today while John Kerry did a press conference with Boris Johnson, John Kerry said the USA hopes to do a very good trade deal with the UK. 40 years we were members of the EU and still the EU does not have a trade deal with the USA. So much for Obama's claims that we would be at the back of the queue. If all that wasn't enough, still yet more of the Remain campaign bullshit has been exposed, France has said the existing bilateral border controls between Britain and France will remain in place and the border controls will stay in Calais. None of this scaremongering rubbish the Remain campaign came out with about it being moved back to Dover has materialised. | |||
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"'John Kerry said the USA hopes to do a very good trade deal with the UK' Well that is a surprise. I was certain he'd say they hoped to do a really shit deal, or else they'd say they wouldn't do a deal at all. " Whatever. In any case the language John Kerry used was certainly more diplomatic than the rubbish Obama came out with during the referendum campaign. | |||
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" More and more of the Remain campaign bullshit is being exposed now as the weeks pass by. I watched channel 4 news earlier and it said the IMF is saying the UK will not go into any kind of recession. Cameron and Osborne were both adament that the UK would go into a self inflicted recession if we did a Brexit, (they called it a DIY recession) it's very clear that most of what they said now was bullshit, nothing more than fairy stories with no basis in any truth or fact. In fact the IMF are now saying the UK will be one of, if not the highest growth rate economy in the G7 next year. Also today while John Kerry did a press conference with Boris Johnson, John Kerry said the USA hopes to do a very good trade deal with the UK. 40 years we were members of the EU and still the EU does not have a trade deal with the USA. So much for Obama's claims that we would be at the back of the queue. " 'The International Monetary Fund has slashed its forecast for UK growth next year after warning that the decision to leave the EU has damaged the British economy’s short-term prospects and “thrown a spanner in the works” of the global recovery. The IMF, which voiced strong misgivings about a vote for Brexit in the run-up to the EU referendum, said it expected the UK economy to grow by 1.3% in 2017, 0.9 points lower than a previous estimate made in its April world economic outlook (WEO). While the fund is currently ruling out a full-blown recession as a result of the Brexit vote, the analysis by one of the leading global economic bodies underlines the financial challenges facing Theresa May’s government, since slower growth will lead to lower tax receipts and a bigger budget deficit. A separate forecast from the European commission provided a gloomier outlook. The commission said the UK would, at best, grow by 1.1% in 2017, but there was a risk that the economy could contract by 0.3% in the worst case scenario. The IMF said it had cut its forecasts for the global economy due to the likely knock-on effect of the vote on other countries, particularly in Europe.' https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jul/19/imf-cuts-uk-growth-forecasts-following-brexit-vote Doesn't sound like the good news you think it is. Also 'Here's How the Brexit Referendum Is Affecting the U.K. Economy So Far There have already been some early signs of the impact. Britain looks set for an economic slowdown and possibly a recession after voters decided to leave the European Union in a referendum on June 23. Official data showing how the decision is affecting the economy will not be published until mid-August but there have already been some early signs of the impact. Below is a summary of some signals of the Brexit effect on Britain’s economy. see link http://fortune.com/2016/07/11/brexit-referendum-uk-economy/ | |||
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" More and more of the Remain campaign bullshit is being exposed now as the weeks pass by. I watched channel 4 news earlier and it said the IMF is saying the UK will not go into any kind of recession. Cameron and Osborne were both adament that the UK would go into a self inflicted recession if we did a Brexit, (they called it a DIY recession) it's very clear that most of what they said now was bullshit, nothing more than fairy stories with no basis in any truth or fact. In fact the IMF are now saying the UK will be one of, if not the highest growth rate economy in the G7 next year. Also today while John Kerry did a press conference with Boris Johnson, John Kerry said the USA hopes to do a very good trade deal with the UK. 40 years we were members of the EU and still the EU does not have a trade deal with the USA. So much for Obama's claims that we would be at the back of the queue. 'The International Monetary Fund has slashed its forecast for UK growth next year after warning that the decision to leave the EU has damaged the British economy’s short-term prospects and “thrown a spanner in the works” of the global recovery. The IMF, which voiced strong misgivings about a vote for Brexit in the run-up to the EU referendum, said it expected the UK economy to grow by 1.3% in 2017, 0.9 points lower than a previous estimate made in its April world economic outlook (WEO). While the fund is currently ruling out a full-blown recession as a result of the Brexit vote, the analysis by one of the leading global economic bodies underlines the financial challenges facing Theresa May’s government, since slower growth will lead to lower tax receipts and a bigger budget deficit. A separate forecast from the European commission provided a gloomier outlook. The commission said the UK would, at best, grow by 1.1% in 2017, but there was a risk that the economy could contract by 0.3% in the worst case scenario. The IMF said it had cut its forecasts for the global economy due to the likely knock-on effect of the vote on other countries, particularly in Europe.' https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jul/19/imf-cuts-uk-growth-forecasts-following-brexit-vote Doesn't sound like the good news you think it is. Also 'Here's How the Brexit Referendum Is Affecting the U.K. Economy So Far There have already been some early signs of the impact. Britain looks set for an economic slowdown and possibly a recession after voters decided to leave the European Union in a referendum on June 23. Official data showing how the decision is affecting the economy will not be published until mid-August but there have already been some early signs of the impact. Below is a summary of some signals of the Brexit effect on Britain’s economy. see link http://fortune.com/2016/07/11/brexit-referendum-uk-economy/" Nice try to spin it there but everything you just said boils down to what I said in my earlier comment. The IMF says there will be NO recession in the UK and the UK economy will continue to grow. Cameron and Osborne's claims of a DIY recession were bullshit, thanks for providing the links which prove it
Oh and lol. | |||
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"Good enough for me. So the prices of the cars our consumers like to buy will go up quite clearly, just like everything else. " It may surprise you to know that pretty much everything we get from Europe we can get elsewhere: German cars too expensive some great cars made right here in the uk French wine pah new world wines just as good There isn't a popular cheese not made in this country now All I know is regardless of what way any of us voted this sodding doom n gloom bulls hit is what will bring us down | |||
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"Good enough for me. So the prices of the cars our consumers like to buy will go up quite clearly, just like everything else. It may surprise you to know that pretty much everything we get from Europe we can get elsewhere: German cars too expensive some great cars made right here in the uk French wine pah new world wines just as good There isn't a popular cheese not made in this country now All I know is regardless of what way any of us voted this sodding doom n gloom bulls hit is what will bring us down " But the pound has crashed in value, so everything is going to be more expensive, it doesn't matter if we are buying from the EU or not. | |||
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"Good enough for me. So the prices of the cars our consumers like to buy will go up quite clearly, just like everything else. It may surprise you to know that pretty much everything we get from Europe we can get elsewhere: German cars too expensive some great cars made right here in the uk French wine pah new world wines just as good There isn't a popular cheese not made in this country now All I know is regardless of what way any of us voted this sodding doom n gloom bulls hit is what will bring us down But the pound has crashed in value, so everything is going to be more expensive, it doesn't matter if we are buying from the EU or not." Why do you use such exaggerated language? The pound has dropped in value. It has not 'crashed'. And as I showed you before it is no worse than what Brown caused in January 2010. But of course that was alright back then wasn't it? Why don't you greet the news British Pensions are now more secure and worth more thanks to the FTSE hitting a near 12 month high? Oh wait no we only get doom and gloom from a Remoaner .. my bad. | |||
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"Good enough for me. So the prices of the cars our consumers like to buy will go up quite clearly, just like everything else. It may surprise you to know that pretty much everything we get from Europe we can get elsewhere: German cars too expensive some great cars made right here in the uk French wine pah new world wines just as good There isn't a popular cheese not made in this country now All I know is regardless of what way any of us voted this sodding doom n gloom bulls hit is what will bring us down But the pound has crashed in value, so everything is going to be more expensive, it doesn't matter if we are buying from the EU or not." This is the doom and gloom I'm on about the pound has not crash it has gone down by an amount that means unless you are spending several thousands of pounds you will not notice it trust me the supermarkets will still have bog of and 3 for 10 deals and who buys most other things at full price anyway we all wait for the sales | |||
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" The pound has dropped in value. It has not 'crashed'. And as I showed you before it is no worse than what Brown caused in January 2010. But of course that was alright back then wasn't it? " No, it definitely fucking wasn't! | |||
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"Cameron and Osborne did tell lies. The emergency budget one was a disgrace. The danger of a recession was not a lie, indeed it is still quite possible. However they did overegg it massively. That actually played into the Leave campaigners hands. They were able to confuse voters that the Remain campaign were telling just as big a pack of lies as the Brexiters and point to these as a result. However, it was actually just two halves of the Tory Party that were full of shit. The Labour, Lib-Dems, SNP and the economists were much more sensible and guarded about their predictions. Their predictions are so far much more accurate, except the fall in sterling was way more dramatic. The real test will be when more and more of the details come out about the actual deal we try to strike. At that point the country will go 'What???!!!' Davis, Fox , BJ, Gove Leadsom and co will scuttle off in shame, the country will say 'that's not what we were told we were getting' and Theresa May will say 'you're right, I knew it was a stupid idea, I just needed these idiots to prove it' and she'll quietly shelve plans to invoke article 50." I think I mentioned it before but I'll say it again - deluded. | |||
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" The pound has dropped in value. It has not 'crashed'. And as I showed you before it is no worse than what Brown caused in January 2010. But of course that was alright back then wasn't it? No, it definitely fucking wasn't!" Yes it f**king did and I have published the sources, numbers and graphs on here ... Markets were triggering the Pound between $1.57 and $1.37 in early 2010 it having fallen from near $2.00 earlier. | |||
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" The pound has dropped in value. It has not 'crashed'. And as I showed you before it is no worse than what Brown caused in January 2010. But of course that was alright back then wasn't it? No, it definitely fucking wasn't! Yes it f**king did and I have published the sources, numbers and graphs on here ... Markets were triggering the Pound between $1.57 and $1.37 in early 2010 it having fallen from near $2.00 earlier." So you finally agree the pound plummeted post referendum and hasn't recovered much even though you think the dream team is in government .. | |||
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" More and more of the Remain campaign bullshit is being exposed now as the weeks pass by. I watched channel 4 news earlier and it said the IMF is saying the UK will not go into any kind of recession. Cameron and Osborne were both adament that the UK would go into a self inflicted recession if we did a Brexit, (they called it a DIY recession) it's very clear that most of what they said now was bullshit, nothing more than fairy stories with no basis in any truth or fact. In fact the IMF are now saying the UK will be one of, if not the highest growth rate economy in the G7 next year. Also today while John Kerry did a press conference with Boris Johnson, John Kerry said the USA hopes to do a very good trade deal with the UK. 40 years we were members of the EU and still the EU does not have a trade deal with the USA. So much for Obama's claims that we would be at the back of the queue. 'The International Monetary Fund has slashed its forecast for UK growth next year after warning that the decision to leave the EU has damaged the British economy’s short-term prospects and “thrown a spanner in the works” of the global recovery. The IMF, which voiced strong misgivings about a vote for Brexit in the run-up to the EU referendum, said it expected the UK economy to grow by 1.3% in 2017, 0.9 points lower than a previous estimate made in its April world economic outlook (WEO). While the fund is currently ruling out a full-blown recession as a result of the Brexit vote, the analysis by one of the leading global economic bodies underlines the financial challenges facing Theresa May’s government, since slower growth will lead to lower tax receipts and a bigger budget deficit. A separate forecast from the European commission provided a gloomier outlook. The commission said the UK would, at best, grow by 1.1% in 2017, but there was a risk that the economy could contract by 0.3% in the worst case scenario. The IMF said it had cut its forecasts for the global economy due to the likely knock-on effect of the vote on other countries, particularly in Europe.' https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jul/19/imf-cuts-uk-growth-forecasts-following-brexit-vote Doesn't sound like the good news you think it is. Also 'Here's How the Brexit Referendum Is Affecting the U.K. Economy So Far There have already been some early signs of the impact. Britain looks set for an economic slowdown and possibly a recession after voters decided to leave the European Union in a referendum on June 23. Official data showing how the decision is affecting the economy will not be published until mid-August but there have already been some early signs of the impact. Below is a summary of some signals of the Brexit effect on Britain’s economy. see link http://fortune.com/2016/07/11/brexit-referendum-uk-economy/ Nice try to spin it there but everything you just said boils down to what I said in my earlier comment. The IMF says there will be NO recession in the UK and the UK economy will continue to grow. Cameron and Osborne's claims of a DIY recession were bullshit, thanks for providing the links which prove it
Oh and lol. "Just been watching it on sky news about the IMF. The IMF is predicting the UK economy will grow more than France or Germany next year. | |||
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" More and more of the Remain campaign bullshit is being exposed now as the weeks pass by. I watched channel 4 news earlier and it said the IMF is saying the UK will not go into any kind of recession. Cameron and Osborne were both adament that the UK would go into a self inflicted recession if we did a Brexit, (they called it a DIY recession) it's very clear that most of what they said now was bullshit, nothing more than fairy stories with no basis in any truth or fact. In fact the IMF are now saying the UK will be one of, if not the highest growth rate economy in the G7 next year. Also today while John Kerry did a press conference with Boris Johnson, John Kerry said the USA hopes to do a very good trade deal with the UK. 40 years we were members of the EU and still the EU does not have a trade deal with the USA. So much for Obama's claims that we would be at the back of the queue. 'The International Monetary Fund has slashed its forecast for UK growth next year after warning that the decision to leave the EU has damaged the British economy’s short-term prospects and “thrown a spanner in the works” of the global recovery. The IMF, which voiced strong misgivings about a vote for Brexit in the run-up to the EU referendum, said it expected the UK economy to grow by 1.3% in 2017, 0.9 points lower than a previous estimate made in its April world economic outlook (WEO). While the fund is currently ruling out a full-blown recession as a result of the Brexit vote, the analysis by one of the leading global economic bodies underlines the financial challenges facing Theresa May’s government, since slower growth will lead to lower tax receipts and a bigger budget deficit. A separate forecast from the European commission provided a gloomier outlook. The commission said the UK would, at best, grow by 1.1% in 2017, but there was a risk that the economy could contract by 0.3% in the worst case scenario. The IMF said it had cut its forecasts for the global economy due to the likely knock-on effect of the vote on other countries, particularly in Europe.' https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jul/19/imf-cuts-uk-growth-forecasts-following-brexit-vote Doesn't sound like the good news you think it is. Also 'Here's How the Brexit Referendum Is Affecting the U.K. Economy So Far There have already been some early signs of the impact. Britain looks set for an economic slowdown and possibly a recession after voters decided to leave the European Union in a referendum on June 23. Official data showing how the decision is affecting the economy will not be published until mid-August but there have already been some early signs of the impact. Below is a summary of some signals of the Brexit effect on Britain’s economy. see link http://fortune.com/2016/07/11/brexit-referendum-uk-economy/ Nice try to spin it there but everything you just said boils down to what I said in my earlier comment. The IMF says there will be NO recession in the UK and the UK economy will continue to grow. Cameron and Osborne's claims of a DIY recession were bullshit, thanks for providing the links which prove it
Oh and lol.
Just been watching it on sky news about the IMF. The IMF is predicting the UK economy will grow more than France or Germany next year. "Jane no fear that useless twat Boris will soon ruin that.. Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson has been forced to defend himself over previous comments he made about Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. It happened during a sometimes awkward press conference in London with US Secretary of State John Kerry | |||
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" The pound has dropped in value. It has not 'crashed'. And as I showed you before it is no worse than what Brown caused in January 2010. But of course that was alright back then wasn't it? No, it definitely fucking wasn't! Yes it f**king did and I have published the sources, numbers and graphs on here ... Markets were triggering the Pound between $1.57 and $1.37 in early 2010 it having fallen from near $2.00 earlier. So you finally agree the pound plummeted post referendum and hasn't recovered much even though you think the dream team is in government .." I agreed no such thing and you can stop trying to twist my words to suit your sad anti-British whingeing. | |||
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" More and more of the Remain campaign bullshit is being exposed now as the weeks pass by. I watched channel 4 news earlier and it said the IMF is saying the UK will not go into any kind of recession. Cameron and Osborne were both adament that the UK would go into a self inflicted recession if we did a Brexit, (they called it a DIY recession) it's very clear that most of what they said now was bullshit, nothing more than fairy stories with no basis in any truth or fact. In fact the IMF are now saying the UK will be one of, if not the highest growth rate economy in the G7 next year. Also today while John Kerry did a press conference with Boris Johnson, John Kerry said the USA hopes to do a very good trade deal with the UK. 40 years we were members of the EU and still the EU does not have a trade deal with the USA. So much for Obama's claims that we would be at the back of the queue. 'The International Monetary Fund has slashed its forecast for UK growth next year after warning that the decision to leave the EU has damaged the British economy’s short-term prospects and “thrown a spanner in the works” of the global recovery. The IMF, which voiced strong misgivings about a vote for Brexit in the run-up to the EU referendum, said it expected the UK economy to grow by 1.3% in 2017, 0.9 points lower than a previous estimate made in its April world economic outlook (WEO). While the fund is currently ruling out a full-blown recession as a result of the Brexit vote, the analysis by one of the leading global economic bodies underlines the financial challenges facing Theresa May’s government, since slower growth will lead to lower tax receipts and a bigger budget deficit. A separate forecast from the European commission provided a gloomier outlook. The commission said the UK would, at best, grow by 1.1% in 2017, but there was a risk that the economy could contract by 0.3% in the worst case scenario. The IMF said it had cut its forecasts for the global economy due to the likely knock-on effect of the vote on other countries, particularly in Europe.' https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jul/19/imf-cuts-uk-growth-forecasts-following-brexit-vote Doesn't sound like the good news you think it is. Also 'Here's How the Brexit Referendum Is Affecting the U.K. Economy So Far There have already been some early signs of the impact. Britain looks set for an economic slowdown and possibly a recession after voters decided to leave the European Union in a referendum on June 23. Official data showing how the decision is affecting the economy will not be published until mid-August but there have already been some early signs of the impact. Below is a summary of some signals of the Brexit effect on Britain’s economy. see link http://fortune.com/2016/07/11/brexit-referendum-uk-economy/ Nice try to spin it there but everything you just said boils down to what I said in my earlier comment. The IMF says there will be NO recession in the UK and the UK economy will continue to grow. Cameron and Osborne's claims of a DIY recession were bullshit, thanks for providing the links which prove it
Oh and lol.
Just been watching it on sky news about the IMF. The IMF is predicting the UK economy will grow more than France or Germany next year.
Jane no fear that useless twat Boris will soon ruin that..
Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson has been forced to defend himself over previous comments he made about Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.
It happened during a sometimes awkward press conference in London with US Secretary of State John Kerry
"Oh give us a fucking break why don't you... On and on and on and on ... | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 19/07/16 23:51:21]" Thats the most sensible thing you've ever said | |||
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" More and more of the Remain campaign bullshit is being exposed now as the weeks pass by. I watched channel 4 news earlier and it said the IMF is saying the UK will not go into any kind of recession. Cameron and Osborne were both adament that the UK would go into a self inflicted recession if we did a Brexit, (they called it a DIY recession) it's very clear that most of what they said now was bullshit, nothing more than fairy stories with no basis in any truth or fact. In fact the IMF are now saying the UK will be one of, if not the highest growth rate economy in the G7 next year. Also today while John Kerry did a press conference with Boris Johnson, John Kerry said the USA hopes to do a very good trade deal with the UK. 40 years we were members of the EU and still the EU does not have a trade deal with the USA. So much for Obama's claims that we would be at the back of the queue. 'The International Monetary Fund has slashed its forecast for UK growth next year after warning that the decision to leave the EU has damaged the British economy’s short-term prospects and “thrown a spanner in the works” of the global recovery. The IMF, which voiced strong misgivings about a vote for Brexit in the run-up to the EU referendum, said it expected the UK economy to grow by 1.3% in 2017, 0.9 points lower than a previous estimate made in its April world economic outlook (WEO). While the fund is currently ruling out a full-blown recession as a result of the Brexit vote, the analysis by one of the leading global economic bodies underlines the financial challenges facing Theresa May’s government, since slower growth will lead to lower tax receipts and a bigger budget deficit. A separate forecast from the European commission provided a gloomier outlook. The commission said the UK would, at best, grow by 1.1% in 2017, but there was a risk that the economy could contract by 0.3% in the worst case scenario. The IMF said it had cut its forecasts for the global economy due to the likely knock-on effect of the vote on other countries, particularly in Europe.' https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jul/19/imf-cuts-uk-growth-forecasts-following-brexit-vote Doesn't sound like the good news you think it is. Also 'Here's How the Brexit Referendum Is Affecting the U.K. Economy So Far There have already been some early signs of the impact. Britain looks set for an economic slowdown and possibly a recession after voters decided to leave the European Union in a referendum on June 23. Official data showing how the decision is affecting the economy will not be published until mid-August but there have already been some early signs of the impact. Below is a summary of some signals of the Brexit effect on Britain’s economy. see link http://fortune.com/2016/07/11/brexit-referendum-uk-economy/ Nice try to spin it there but everything you just said boils down to what I said in my earlier comment. The IMF says there will be NO recession in the UK and the UK economy will continue to grow. Cameron and Osborne's claims of a DIY recession were bullshit, thanks for providing the links which prove it
Oh and lol.
Just been watching it on sky news about the IMF. The IMF is predicting the UK economy will grow more than France or Germany next year.
Jane no fear that useless twat Boris will soon ruin that..
Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson has been forced to defend himself over previous comments he made about Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.
It happened during a sometimes awkward press conference in London with US Secretary of State John Kerry
"Jane no fear? 
You've been watching the new Tarzan film too much.
If you actually bothered to watch the press conference with John Kerry and Boris Johnson today you will have seen Kerry saw the funny side of it and by the end of the press conference Boris had John Kerry and the assembled media wrapped around his little finger. | |||
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" More and more of the Remain campaign bullshit is being exposed now as the weeks pass by. I watched channel 4 news earlier and it said the IMF is saying the UK will not go into any kind of recession. Cameron and Osborne were both adament that the UK would go into a self inflicted recession if we did a Brexit, (they called it a DIY recession) it's very clear that most of what they said now was bullshit, nothing more than fairy stories with no basis in any truth or fact. In fact the IMF are now saying the UK will be one of, if not the highest growth rate economy in the G7 next year. Also today while John Kerry did a press conference with Boris Johnson, John Kerry said the USA hopes to do a very good trade deal with the UK. 40 years we were members of the EU and still the EU does not have a trade deal with the USA. So much for Obama's claims that we would be at the back of the queue. 'The International Monetary Fund has slashed its forecast for UK growth next year after warning that the decision to leave the EU has damaged the British economy’s short-term prospects and “thrown a spanner in the works” of the global recovery. The IMF, which voiced strong misgivings about a vote for Brexit in the run-up to the EU referendum, said it expected the UK economy to grow by 1.3% in 2017, 0.9 points lower than a previous estimate made in its April world economic outlook (WEO). While the fund is currently ruling out a full-blown recession as a result of the Brexit vote, the analysis by one of the leading global economic bodies underlines the financial challenges facing Theresa May’s government, since slower growth will lead to lower tax receipts and a bigger budget deficit. A separate forecast from the European commission provided a gloomier outlook. The commission said the UK would, at best, grow by 1.1% in 2017, but there was a risk that the economy could contract by 0.3% in the worst case scenario. The IMF said it had cut its forecasts for the global economy due to the likely knock-on effect of the vote on other countries, particularly in Europe.' https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jul/19/imf-cuts-uk-growth-forecasts-following-brexit-vote Doesn't sound like the good news you think it is. Also 'Here's How the Brexit Referendum Is Affecting the U.K. Economy So Far There have already been some early signs of the impact. Britain looks set for an economic slowdown and possibly a recession after voters decided to leave the European Union in a referendum on June 23. Official data showing how the decision is affecting the economy will not be published until mid-August but there have already been some early signs of the impact. Below is a summary of some signals of the Brexit effect on Britain’s economy. see link http://fortune.com/2016/07/11/brexit-referendum-uk-economy/ Nice try to spin it there but everything you just said boils down to what I said in my earlier comment. The IMF says there will be NO recession in the UK and the UK economy will continue to grow. Cameron and Osborne's claims of a DIY recession were bullshit, thanks for providing the links which prove it
Oh and lol.
Just been watching it on sky news about the IMF. The IMF is predicting the UK economy will grow more than France or Germany next year.
Jane no fear that useless twat Boris will soon ruin that..
Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson has been forced to defend himself over previous comments he made about Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.
It happened during a sometimes awkward press conference in London with US Secretary of State John Kerry
Oh give us a fucking break why don't you...
On and on and on and on ..."Mo already told you as long as you keep posting the bollocks you aquire from the comics you read I will keep posting | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 19/07/16 23:51:21] Thats the most sensible thing you've ever said "THIS! | |||
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" More and more of the Remain campaign bullshit is being exposed now as the weeks pass by. I watched channel 4 news earlier and it said the IMF is saying the UK will not go into any kind of recession. Cameron and Osborne were both adament that the UK would go into a self inflicted recession if we did a Brexit, (they called it a DIY recession) it's very clear that most of what they said now was bullshit, nothing more than fairy stories with no basis in any truth or fact. In fact the IMF are now saying the UK will be one of, if not the highest growth rate economy in the G7 next year. Also today while John Kerry did a press conference with Boris Johnson, John Kerry said the USA hopes to do a very good trade deal with the UK. 40 years we were members of the EU and still the EU does not have a trade deal with the USA. So much for Obama's claims that we would be at the back of the queue. 'The International Monetary Fund has slashed its forecast for UK growth next year after warning that the decision to leave the EU has damaged the British economy’s short-term prospects and “thrown a spanner in the works” of the global recovery. The IMF, which voiced strong misgivings about a vote for Brexit in the run-up to the EU referendum, said it expected the UK economy to grow by 1.3% in 2017, 0.9 points lower than a previous estimate made in its April world economic outlook (WEO). While the fund is currently ruling out a full-blown recession as a result of the Brexit vote, the analysis by one of the leading global economic bodies underlines the financial challenges facing Theresa May’s government, since slower growth will lead to lower tax receipts and a bigger budget deficit. A separate forecast from the European commission provided a gloomier outlook. The commission said the UK would, at best, grow by 1.1% in 2017, but there was a risk that the economy could contract by 0.3% in the worst case scenario. The IMF said it had cut its forecasts for the global economy due to the likely knock-on effect of the vote on other countries, particularly in Europe.' https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jul/19/imf-cuts-uk-growth-forecasts-following-brexit-vote Doesn't sound like the good news you think it is. Also 'Here's How the Brexit Referendum Is Affecting the U.K. Economy So Far There have already been some early signs of the impact. Britain looks set for an economic slowdown and possibly a recession after voters decided to leave the European Union in a referendum on June 23. Official data showing how the decision is affecting the economy will not be published until mid-August but there have already been some early signs of the impact. Below is a summary of some signals of the Brexit effect on Britain’s economy. see link http://fortune.com/2016/07/11/brexit-referendum-uk-economy/ Nice try to spin it there but everything you just said boils down to what I said in my earlier comment. The IMF says there will be NO recession in the UK and the UK economy will continue to grow. Cameron and Osborne's claims of a DIY recession were bullshit, thanks for providing the links which prove it
Oh and lol.
Just been watching it on sky news about the IMF. The IMF is predicting the UK economy will grow more than France or Germany next year.
Jane no fear that useless twat Boris will soon ruin that..
Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson has been forced to defend himself over previous comments he made about Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.
It happened during a sometimes awkward press conference in London with US Secretary of State John Kerry
Jane no fear?
You've been watching the new Tarzan film too much.
If you actually bothered to watch the press conference with John Kerry and Boris Johnson today you will have seen Kerry saw the funny side of it and by the end of the press conference Boris had John Kerry and the assembled media wrapped around his little finger. "You gotta stop sniffing the powder man ist addling your mind | |||
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" Oh give us a fucking break why don't you... On and on and on and on ... " People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, Chalk old son. | |||
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" Oh give us a fucking break why don't you... On and on and on and on ... People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, Chalk old son. "Ayup, have they let you out of the cell for some supper? | |||
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" Oh give us a fucking break why don't you... On and on and on and on ... People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, Chalk old son. " | |||
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" Oh give us a fucking break why don't you... On and on and on and on ... People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, Chalk old son.
Ayup, have they let you out of the cell for some supper? "^^^^ Deluded Brexiter bigot - excellent show of xenophobia with the Italian guy this evening too. Good to see your true colours. | |||
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" Oh give us a fucking break why don't you... On and on and on and on ... People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, Chalk old son.
Ayup, have they let you out of the cell for some supper? "You should know being in the cell next door .. | |||
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" Oh give us a fucking break why don't you... On and on and on and on ... People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, Chalk old son.
Ayup, have they let you out of the cell for some supper?
You should know being in the cell next door .."So you admit he is in a padded cell then | |||
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" Oh give us a fucking break why don't you... On and on and on and on ... People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, Chalk old son.
Ayup, have they let you out of the cell for some supper?
^^^^ Deluded Brexiter bigot - excellent show of xenophobia with the Italian guy this evening too. Good to see your true colours. "
Was a shameful show of racism by the brexit bigots ..but we have come to expect no better from the usual.crowd | |||
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" Oh give us a fucking break why don't you... On and on and on and on ... People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, Chalk old son.
Ayup, have they let you out of the cell for some supper?
You should know being in the cell next door ..
So you admit he is in a padded cell then "With friends like that ... Besides with you lot the lunatics clearly have taken over the asylum | |||
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" Oh give us a fucking break why don't you... On and on and on and on ... People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, Chalk old son.
Ayup, have they let you out of the cell for some supper?
^^^^ Deluded Brexiter bigot - excellent show of xenophobia with the Italian guy this evening too. Good to see your true colours. "why didn't you join in? Were your hands tied behind your back?
Xenophobia? Maybe you missed the post where I said half my family are Italian? Not to mention the other members who include Thai, Afro Carribean, Spanish, Indian, American red Indian and Maori but hey ho, I just hope they don't give you a sharp spoon | |||
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" Xenophobia? Maybe you missed the post where I said half my family are Italian? Not to mention the other members who include Thai, Afro Carribean, Spanish, Indian, American red Indian and Maori but hey ho, I just hope they don't give you a sharp spoon" Someone can be xenophobic whatever their background is - it doesn't give you an excuse. Although you've spent plenty of time bleating on about being called it and other things here you couldn't wait to leap in and have a go once their was a little gang ready to do some on-line bullying. Hey ho, nothing changes hey? | |||
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