FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Merkels cdu suffers historic defeats
Merkels cdu suffers historic defeats
Jump to: Newest in thread
 | |||
"Just when you thought Germany was something different.... Turns out the Berlin elections were dominated by immigration, lack of housing, crumbling schools and who'd have thought it late bloody buses!!! . . Oh how the mighty fall "Tbh it was predictable given how she mismanaged the Syrian refugee crisis.Not saying it wasn't right for her to help those genuinely in need of refuge, but I think she threw too much on the German people, when there were already places in Germany that felt left behind with the rest of the country/Europe. Much like Brexit in this country. A big part of it will be people fed up of the status quo, more people drifting to the AfD party which is eurosceptic and largely anti-immigration. A German friend of mine has described to me the recent turmoil in the German regional elections as a unholy combination of the 'brexit effect' and the the resurfacing of the far right in Europe. | |||
| |||
"Should be fun when they get their EU referendum" . The afd although relatively new still only poll about 15-25%. The Germans won't vote to leave the EU, they make to much money of it. | |||
"Just when you thought Germany was something different.... Turns out the Berlin elections were dominated by immigration, lack of housing, crumbling schools and who'd have thought it late bloody buses!!! . . Oh how the mighty fall
Tbh it was predictable given how she mismanaged the Syrian refugee crisis.Not saying it wasn't right for her to help those genuinely in need of refuge, but I think she threw too much on the German people, when there were already places in Germany that felt left behind with the rest of the country/Europe. Much like Brexit in this country.
A big part of it will be people fed up of the status quo, more people drifting to the AfD party which is eurosceptic and largely anti-immigration.
A German friend of mine has described to me the recent turmoil in the German regional elections as a unholy combination of the 'brexit effect' and the the resurfacing of the far right in Europe. ". You mean East Germany?. | |||
"Should be fun when they get their EU referendum. The afd although relatively new still only poll about 15-25%. The Germans won't vote to leave the EU, they make to much money of it." have you spoken to German friends?? mine don't share the same view. | |||
| |||
"Should be fun when they get their EU referendum. The afd although relatively new still only poll about 15-25%. The Germans won't vote to leave the EU, they make to much money of it. have you spoken to German friends?? mine don't share the same view. " Neither do most of ours, and we live there. | |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
"Well all I can say is maybe other countries might not be so keen on joining the euroarmy currently being set up Another hopeless attempt to save the Baltic states and perhaps Poland from Putin Yay - go on sturgeon send some scots to fight for Poland and the euro fascists when they let you in the eu " I hate to be a nitpicker, but Poland isn't really one of the 'Baltic States' you're referring to. Also, you know that Polish people fought a resistance campaign and joined the British forces when the Allies faced the Axis Powers who were actual fascists. You know, labelling the EU as fascist really dilutes the impact it has these days. My point being that, if Russia were to invade, we probably should help all those countries which had resistance fighters be a thorn in the side of the Nazis. | |||
"Well all I can say is maybe other countries might not be so keen on joining the euroarmy currently being set up Another hopeless attempt to save the Baltic states and perhaps Poland from Putin Yay - go on sturgeon send some scots to fight for Poland and the euro fascists when they let you in the eu I hate to be a nitpicker, but Poland isn't really one of the 'Baltic States' you're referring to. Also, you know that Polish people fought a resistance campaign and joined the British forces when the Allies faced the Axis Powers who were actual fascists. You know, labelling the EU as fascist really dilutes the impact it has these days. My point being that, if Russia were to invade, we probably should help all those countries which had resistance fighters be a thorn in the side of the Nazis." Poland is in nato incase you hadnt noticed | |||
"Germany have a huge immigration swarm problem and also the things those immigrants do there, so do you really blame them?" Well they want freedom of movement they have to live with it. That's one of the reasons the UK voted to leave the EU.  | |||
"Well all I can say is maybe other countries might not be so keen on joining the euroarmy currently being set up Another hopeless attempt to save the Baltic states and perhaps Poland from Putin Yay - go on sturgeon send some scots to fight for Poland and the euro fascists when they let you in the eu " . What makes you think Russia want Poland?..... Last time I looked Russia gave up Latvia,Lithuania, Estonia, Georgia, Belarus, Ukraine and all the stans... Technically Romania, Albania,Poland, Yugoslavia and the rest were independent communist states but in reality were completely dependent on Russia.... They gave all those countries up because they couldn't afford to keep them, they utterly drained Russia of resources and time and the only reason they took them in the first place along with East Germany is.... They didn't want fascist Germany anywhere near them again, because the reality about ww2 was the fascists and the Bolsheviks were diametrically opposed in ever sense and absolutely hated each other!. . . So I don't know about this narrative that Putin is desperate to plunder Poland because frankly why the fuck would the biggest country in the world with the world's biggest resources want fucking Poland or for that matter the UK????? | |||
"Should be fun when they get their EU referendum. The afd although relatively new still only poll about 15-25%. The Germans won't vote to leave the EU, they make to much money of it. have you spoken to German friends?? mine don't share the same view." . Well there'd be totally bonkers, Germany are a massive exporting country and have hugely gained from the EU and specifically the euro | |||
"In our area of Germany you cannot walk for a couple of minutes without seeing a Merkel mus raus (Merkel must go) sticker on lamp posts, cars, notice boards, and pretty much everywhere you can stick a sticker. It's not just Merkel's party that is suffering. The SPD (like UK Labour) is also taking a hit as they are in a grand coalition with Merkel's CDU/CSU alliance. In our small town the last time it elected a non SPD mayor was when Adolf was around. Yet this year the SPD got their arses kicked by an independent who is now our new Mayor. The result in Berlin was quite a coup for AFD. Just over 13% in a city that has been left leaning since the wall came down is a very good result. Remember it is only two or three weeks ago that they pushed Merkel's CDU into 3rd place in her home state polling around 24%. AFD are unlikely to be forming a government anytime soon but with between 15 and 20% nationally and the German PR electoral system they are going be a serious thorn in the side of the mainstream parties for the foreseeable future. " . What's the AFDs position on these late buses is what I really want to know  | |||
"Should be fun when they get their EU referendum. The afd although relatively new still only poll about 15-25%. The Germans won't vote to leave the EU, they make to much money of it. have you spoken to German friends?? mine don't share the same view.. Well there'd be totally bonkers, Germany are a massive exporting country and have hugely gained from the EU and specifically the euro" That is very true, and for years the Germans have blindly supported the EU for those exact reasons. However many Germans are now asking the question "at what cost?" and they really don't like the answer. As with Brexit. There is a lot more to it than just economics. | |||
" That is very true, and for years the Germans have blindly supported the EU for those exact reasons. However many Germans are now asking the question "at what cost?" and they really don't like the answer. As with Brexit. There is a lot more to it than just economics." . That's an interesting question in itself. How much do you have to gain to put with stuff you don't like? | |||
| |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. " The far right NPD only ever show a couple of percentage points in German elections. It is the moderate right AFD that are gaining ground. | |||
" That is very true, and for years the Germans have blindly supported the EU for those exact reasons. However many Germans are now asking the question "at what cost?" and they really don't like the answer. As with Brexit. There is a lot more to it than just economics.. That's an interesting question in itself. How much do you have to gain to put with stuff you don't like?" I think the most interesting part is that for the first time the German people are actually asking the question. | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. " Why do the left insist on labelling anyone right of their own views far right? Are all labour lib dems etc in league with stalin? | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. Why do the left insist on labelling anyone right of their own views far right? Are all labour lib dems etc in league with stalin?" LOL Sometimes I wonder. Problem with many lefties is that anyone slightly to the right of comrade Corbyn is a rabid fascist. | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. " and you don't blame the EU for this? | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. Why do the left insist on labelling anyone right of their own views far right? Are all labour lib dems etc in league with stalin?" The left like the Telegraph? www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/who-are-the-afd-the-far-right-party-hoping-to-end-merkels-reign/ Or the left like The Economist? www.economist.com/news/europe/21706435-after-beating-angela-merkels-party-mecklenburg-west-pomerania-populists-aim Or the left like the Daily Express?www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/711596/Europe-far-right-rise-open-door-policy-neo-Nazis-migrants | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. Why do the left insist on labelling anyone right of their own views far right? Are all labour lib dems etc in league with stalin? The left like the Telegraph? www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/who-are-the-afd-the-far-right-party-hoping-to-end-merkels-reign/ Or the left like The Economist? www.economist.com/news/europe/21706435-after-beating-angela-merkels-party-mecklenburg-west-pomerania-populists-aim Or the left like the Daily Express?www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/711596/Europe-far-right-rise-open-door-policy-neo-Nazis-migrants" If these papers consider them to be far right, but you dont, perhaps that says more about your political leanings than mine? Just a thought. | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. Why do the left insist on labelling anyone right of their own views far right? Are all labour lib dems etc in league with stalin? The left like the Telegraph? www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/who-are-the-afd-the-far-right-party-hoping-to-end-merkels-reign/ Or the left like The Economist? www.economist.com/news/europe/21706435-after-beating-angela-merkels-party-mecklenburg-west-pomerania-populists-aim Or the left like the Daily Express?www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/711596/Europe-far-right-rise-open-door-policy-neo-Nazis-migrants If these papers consider them to be far right, but you dont, perhaps that says more about your political leanings than mine? Just a thought." Of course newspaper journalists (and I use that term loosely for many) will use "far" in their description of anything right of centre. It's called an eye catching headline. UKIP were described as far right I've even heard some elements of the Tory party labelled far or extreme right. "Moderate right make election gains in Germany" doesn't quite have the same ring to it. So best slot the word "far" in there and it will sell a few more papers. The dangerous bit is when the REAL far right Nazi's turn up and there are no other adjectives to describe them. They have all been used up so maybe we will call them the far far away right or the over yonder horizon right. Wrongly labelling a political party just to make a sensationalist point can be a very dangerous game. | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. Why do the left insist on labelling anyone right of their own views far right? Are all labour lib dems etc in league with stalin? The left like the Telegraph? www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/who-are-the-afd-the-far-right-party-hoping-to-end-merkels-reign/ Or the left like The Economist? www.economist.com/news/europe/21706435-after-beating-angela-merkels-party-mecklenburg-west-pomerania-populists-aim Or the left like the Daily Express?www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/711596/Europe-far-right-rise-open-door-policy-neo-Nazis-migrants If these papers consider them to be far right, but you dont, perhaps that says more about your political leanings than mine? Just a thought." If you consider everything you copy and paste to be bang on the truth maybe that says something about you. Just a thought  | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. Why do the left insist on labelling anyone right of their own views far right? Are all labour lib dems etc in league with stalin? The left like the Telegraph? www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/who-are-the-afd-the-far-right-party-hoping-to-end-merkels-reign/ Or the left like The Economist? www.economist.com/news/europe/21706435-after-beating-angela-merkels-party-mecklenburg-west-pomerania-populists-aim Or the left like the Daily Express?www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/711596/Europe-far-right-rise-open-door-policy-neo-Nazis-migrants If these papers consider them to be far right, but you dont, perhaps that says more about your political leanings than mine? Just a thought. Of course newspaper journalists (and I use that term loosely for many) will use "far" in their description of anything right of centre. It's called an eye catching headline. UKIP were described as far right I've even heard some elements of the Tory party labelled far or extreme right. "Moderate right make election gains in Germany" doesn't quite have the same ring to it. So best slot the word "far" in there and it will sell a few more papers. The dangerous bit is when the REAL far right Nazi's turn up and there are no other adjectives to describe them. They have all been used up so maybe we will call them the far far away right or the over yonder horizon right. Wrongly labelling a political party just to make a sensationalist point can be a very dangerous game." The main point is even the German people are worried about immigration and some want to control their borders just like we do. | |||
| |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. Why do the left insist on labelling anyone right of their own views far right? Are all labour lib dems etc in league with stalin? The left like the Telegraph? www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/who-are-the-afd-the-far-right-party-hoping-to-end-merkels-reign/ Or the left like The Economist? www.economist.com/news/europe/21706435-after-beating-angela-merkels-party-mecklenburg-west-pomerania-populists-aim Or the left like the Daily Express?www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/711596/Europe-far-right-rise-open-door-policy-neo-Nazis-migrants If these papers consider them to be far right, but you dont, perhaps that says more about your political leanings than mine? Just a thought. If you consider everything you copy and paste to be bang on the truth maybe that says something about you. Just a thought "Thinking everyone else is wrong, and you are the only person who is right also says a lot about you. | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. Why do the left insist on labelling anyone right of their own views far right? Are all labour lib dems etc in league with stalin? The left like the Telegraph? www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/who-are-the-afd-the-far-right-party-hoping-to-end-merkels-reign/ Or the left like The Economist? www.economist.com/news/europe/21706435-after-beating-angela-merkels-party-mecklenburg-west-pomerania-populists-aim Or the left like the Daily Express?www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/711596/Europe-far-right-rise-open-door-policy-neo-Nazis-migrants If these papers consider them to be far right, but you dont, perhaps that says more about your political leanings than mine? Just a thought. If you consider everything you copy and paste to be bang on the truth maybe that says something about you. Just a thought
Thinking everyone else is wrong, and you are the only person who is right also says a lot about you. "Laydeeeees and Gentlemen. The 2016 pots and kettles competition is now over. No more entries will be accepted and we have a clear winner. | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. Why do the left insist on labelling anyone right of their own views far right? Are all labour lib dems etc in league with stalin? The left like the Telegraph? www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/who-are-the-afd-the-far-right-party-hoping-to-end-merkels-reign/ Or the left like The Economist? www.economist.com/news/europe/21706435-after-beating-angela-merkels-party-mecklenburg-west-pomerania-populists-aim Or the left like the Daily Express?www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/711596/Europe-far-right-rise-open-door-policy-neo-Nazis-migrants If these papers consider them to be far right, but you dont, perhaps that says more about your political leanings than mine? Just a thought. If you consider everything you copy and paste to be bang on the truth maybe that says something about you. Just a thought
Thinking everyone else is wrong, and you are the only person who is right also says a lot about you. " and you are never wrong? Let's have this straight you my little troll have contradicted, embarrassed,ignored facts to suit your agenda. You move goal posts when you lose your argument (daily) then say it's racism!! You are exactly what's wrong with this fcked up country. A bit of honesty on your part and you wouldn't look such a prick on a daily basis. Your view on this debate/brexit is self fulfilling. Let me let you in on a little secret not everybody who voted out voted out for economic reasons or immigration reasons. Some people voted purely on the basis of governing ourselves and our country in the future. If you don't like it fck off to Europe and live there this country would be a much better place without spineless divs like yourself. | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. " Hitler actually improved germanys economy pre ww2 and as well, the EU is a blue print of hitlers idea of one super power. | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. Hitler actually improved germanys economy pre ww2 and as well, the EU is a blue print of hitlers idea of one super power." So Germany,s way of winning WW2 through the back door then. | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. Why do the left insist on labelling anyone right of their own views far right? Are all labour lib dems etc in league with stalin? The left like the Telegraph? www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/who-are-the-afd-the-far-right-party-hoping-to-end-merkels-reign/ Or the left like The Economist? www.economist.com/news/europe/21706435-after-beating-angela-merkels-party-mecklenburg-west-pomerania-populists-aim Or the left like the Daily Express?www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/711596/Europe-far-right-rise-open-door-policy-neo-Nazis-migrants If these papers consider them to be far right, but you dont, perhaps that says more about your political leanings than mine? Just a thought. If you consider everything you copy and paste to be bang on the truth maybe that says something about you. Just a thought
Thinking everyone else is wrong, and you are the only person who is right also says a lot about you.
and you are never wrong? Let's have this straight you my little troll have contradicted, embarrassed,ignored facts to suit your agenda. You move goal posts when you lose your argument (daily) then say it's racism!! You are exactly what's wrong with this fcked up country. A bit of honesty on your part and you wouldn't look such a prick on a daily basis. Your view on this debate/brexit is self fulfilling. Let me let you in on a little secret not everybody who voted out voted out for economic reasons or immigration reasons. Some people voted purely on the basis of governing ourselves and our country in the future. If you don't like it fck off to Europe and live there this country would be a much better place without spineless divs like yourself. "Well the people who agree with me are Nobel prize winners, every head of state in the world, some of the best thinkers the world has ever known like Steven Hawking, world class businessmen like Richard Branson, our military and security leadership etc. etc. etc. So I am quite happy with the company I have on this side of the debate. You have keep hypocrits like Farage, Gove and Boris. I like the way that you claim not to be racist, but obviously just throwing out foreigners isn't enough for you, you want to throw out the Brits that didn't agree with you either! I'm sure if you had your way people like me would be rounded up and put into camps, just like your heroes from Germany did 70 years ago. You seem to be very happy to take rights away from millions of people, so I wouldn't be surprised if you want to take away my freedom for daring to disagree with you. | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. Hitler actually improved germanys economy pre ww2 and as well, the EU is a blue print of hitlers idea of one super power." . That didn't make him an economic genius, the country was utterly fucked from ww1 war repercussions. As Ferdinand foch said this ain't no peace treaty it's a twenty year armistice | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. Hitler actually improved germanys economy pre ww2 and as well, the EU is a blue print of hitlers idea of one super power.. That didn't make him an economic genius, the country was utterly fucked from ww1 war repercussions. As Ferdinand foch said this ain't no peace treaty it's a twenty year armistice " That is right, but he did build it up from nothing and employed many to build the autobahn and all sorts. | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. Why do the left insist on labelling anyone right of their own views far right? Are all labour lib dems etc in league with stalin? The left like the Telegraph? www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/who-are-the-afd-the-far-right-party-hoping-to-end-merkels-reign/ Or the left like The Economist? www.economist.com/news/europe/21706435-after-beating-angela-merkels-party-mecklenburg-west-pomerania-populists-aim Or the left like the Daily Express?www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/711596/Europe-far-right-rise-open-door-policy-neo-Nazis-migrants If these papers consider them to be far right, but you dont, perhaps that says more about your political leanings than mine? Just a thought. If you consider everything you copy and paste to be bang on the truth maybe that says something about you. Just a thought
Thinking everyone else is wrong, and you are the only person who is right also says a lot about you.
and you are never wrong? Let's have this straight you my little troll have contradicted, embarrassed,ignored facts to suit your agenda. You move goal posts when you lose your argument (daily) then say it's racism!! You are exactly what's wrong with this fcked up country. A bit of honesty on your part and you wouldn't look such a prick on a daily basis. Your view on this debate/brexit is self fulfilling. Let me let you in on a little secret not everybody who voted out voted out for economic reasons or immigration reasons. Some people voted purely on the basis of governing ourselves and our country in the future. If you don't like it fck off to Europe and live there this country would be a much better place without spineless divs like yourself.
Well the people who agree with me are Nobel prize winners, every head of state in the world, some of the best thinkers the world has ever known like Steven Hawking, world class businessmen like Richard Branson, our military and security leadership etc. etc. etc. So I am quite happy with the company I have on this side of the debate. You have keep hypocrits like Farage, Gove and Boris. I like the way that you claim not to be racist, but obviously just throwing out foreigners isn't enough for you, you want to throw out the Brits that didn't agree with you either! I'm sure if you had your way people like me would be rounded up and put into camps, just like your heroes from Germany did 70 years ago. You seem to be very happy to take rights away from millions of people, so I wouldn't be surprised if you want to take away my freedom for daring to disagree with you. "
Right let's make this easy for you.
1. Where did I claim not to be racist in that statement?
Answer,I didn't I said and quote
"You move goal posts when you lose your argument (daily) then say it's racism!!"
2 as for throwing anybody out of this country, and I quote again,
"Let me let you in on a little secret not everybody who voted out voted out for economic reasons or immigration reason" I think that statement shows my vote was not based on imagination.
So now we have proved you twist, make up, plain lie about other people's words why should anybody listen to your copy and paste dribble that you carry on dishing out? If you had any credibility before Brexit you certainly don't now.
The proof is in the pudding look back through all that dribble you paste and look at the replys and comments it receives.
Oh I forget you can't possibly be wrong with all these experts for company | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. Why do the left insist on labelling anyone right of their own views far right? Are all labour lib dems etc in league with stalin? The left like the Telegraph? www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/who-are-the-afd-the-far-right-party-hoping-to-end-merkels-reign/ Or the left like The Economist? www.economist.com/news/europe/21706435-after-beating-angela-merkels-party-mecklenburg-west-pomerania-populists-aim Or the left like the Daily Express?www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/711596/Europe-far-right-rise-open-door-policy-neo-Nazis-migrants If these papers consider them to be far right, but you dont, perhaps that says more about your political leanings than mine? Just a thought. If you consider everything you copy and paste to be bang on the truth maybe that says something about you. Just a thought
Thinking everyone else is wrong, and you are the only person who is right also says a lot about you.
and you are never wrong? Let's have this straight you my little troll have contradicted, embarrassed,ignored facts to suit your agenda. You move goal posts when you lose your argument (daily) then say it's racism!! You are exactly what's wrong with this fcked up country. A bit of honesty on your part and you wouldn't look such a prick on a daily basis. Your view on this debate/brexit is self fulfilling. Let me let you in on a little secret not everybody who voted out voted out for economic reasons or immigration reasons. Some people voted purely on the basis of governing ourselves and our country in the future. If you don't like it fck off to Europe and live there this country would be a much better place without spineless divs like yourself.
Well the people who agree with me are Nobel prize winners, every head of state in the world, some of the best thinkers the world has ever known like Steven Hawking, world class businessmen like Richard Branson, our military and security leadership etc. etc. etc. So I am quite happy with the company I have on this side of the debate. You have keep hypocrits like Farage, Gove and Boris. I like the way that you claim not to be racist, but obviously just throwing out foreigners isn't enough for you, you want to throw out the Brits that didn't agree with you either! I'm sure if you had your way people like me would be rounded up and put into camps, just like your heroes from Germany did 70 years ago. You seem to be very happy to take rights away from millions of people, so I wouldn't be surprised if you want to take away my freedom for daring to disagree with you.
Right let's make this easy for you.
1. Where did I claim not to be racist in that statement?
Answer,I didn't I said and quote
"You move goal posts when you lose your argument (daily) then say it's racism!!"
2 as for throwing anybody out of this country, and I quote again,
"Let me let you in on a little secret not everybody who voted out voted out for economic reasons or immigration reason" I think that statement shows my vote was not based on imagination.
So now we have proved you twist, make up, plain lie about other people's words why should anybody listen to your copy and paste dribble that you carry on dishing out? If you had any credibility before Brexit you certainly don't now.
The proof is in the pudding look back through all that dribble you paste and look at the replys and comments it receives.
Oh I forget you can't possibly be wrong with all these experts for company "So for the record, you are not, and have never claimed, not to be racist? | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. Why do the left insist on labelling anyone right of their own views far right? Are all labour lib dems etc in league with stalin? The left like the Telegraph? www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/who-are-the-afd-the-far-right-party-hoping-to-end-merkels-reign/ Or the left like The Economist? www.economist.com/news/europe/21706435-after-beating-angela-merkels-party-mecklenburg-west-pomerania-populists-aim Or the left like the Daily Express?www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/711596/Europe-far-right-rise-open-door-policy-neo-Nazis-migrants If these papers consider them to be far right, but you dont, perhaps that says more about your political leanings than mine? Just a thought. If you consider everything you copy and paste to be bang on the truth maybe that says something about you. Just a thought
Thinking everyone else is wrong, and you are the only person who is right also says a lot about you.
and you are never wrong? Let's have this straight you my little troll have contradicted, embarrassed,ignored facts to suit your agenda. You move goal posts when you lose your argument (daily) then say it's racism!! You are exactly what's wrong with this fcked up country. A bit of honesty on your part and you wouldn't look such a prick on a daily basis. Your view on this debate/brexit is self fulfilling. Let me let you in on a little secret not everybody who voted out voted out for economic reasons or immigration reasons. Some people voted purely on the basis of governing ourselves and our country in the future. If you don't like it fck off to Europe and live there this country would be a much better place without spineless divs like yourself.
Well the people who agree with me are Nobel prize winners, every head of state in the world, some of the best thinkers the world has ever known like Steven Hawking, world class businessmen like Richard Branson, our military and security leadership etc. etc. etc. So I am quite happy with the company I have on this side of the debate. You have keep hypocrits like Farage, Gove and Boris. I like the way that you claim not to be racist, but obviously just throwing out foreigners isn't enough for you, you want to throw out the Brits that didn't agree with you either! I'm sure if you had your way people like me would be rounded up and put into camps, just like your heroes from Germany did 70 years ago. You seem to be very happy to take rights away from millions of people, so I wouldn't be surprised if you want to take away my freedom for daring to disagree with you.
Right let's make this easy for you.
1. Where did I claim not to be racist in that statement?
Answer,I didn't I said and quote
"You move goal posts when you lose your argument (daily) then say it's racism!!"
2 as for throwing anybody out of this country, and I quote again,
"Let me let you in on a little secret not everybody who voted out voted out for economic reasons or immigration reason" I think that statement shows my vote was not based on imagination.
So now we have proved you twist, make up, plain lie about other people's words why should anybody listen to your copy and paste dribble that you carry on dishing out? If you had any credibility before Brexit you certainly don't now.
The proof is in the pudding look back through all that dribble you paste and look at the replys and comments it receives.
Oh I forget you can't possibly be wrong with all these experts for company
So for the record, you are not, and have never claimed, not to be racist? "Default setting again | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. Why do the left insist on labelling anyone right of their own views far right? Are all labour lib dems etc in league with stalin? The left like the Telegraph? www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/who-are-the-afd-the-far-right-party-hoping-to-end-merkels-reign/ Or the left like The Economist? www.economist.com/news/europe/21706435-after-beating-angela-merkels-party-mecklenburg-west-pomerania-populists-aim Or the left like the Daily Express?www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/711596/Europe-far-right-rise-open-door-policy-neo-Nazis-migrants If these papers consider them to be far right, but you dont, perhaps that says more about your political leanings than mine? Just a thought. If you consider everything you copy and paste to be bang on the truth maybe that says something about you. Just a thought
Thinking everyone else is wrong, and you are the only person who is right also says a lot about you.
and you are never wrong? Let's have this straight you my little troll have contradicted, embarrassed,ignored facts to suit your agenda. You move goal posts when you lose your argument (daily) then say it's racism!! You are exactly what's wrong with this fcked up country. A bit of honesty on your part and you wouldn't look such a prick on a daily basis. Your view on this debate/brexit is self fulfilling. Let me let you in on a little secret not everybody who voted out voted out for economic reasons or immigration reasons. Some people voted purely on the basis of governing ourselves and our country in the future. If you don't like it fck off to Europe and live there this country would be a much better place without spineless divs like yourself.
Well the people who agree with me are Nobel prize winners, every head of state in the world, some of the best thinkers the world has ever known like Steven Hawking, world class businessmen like Richard Branson, our military and security leadership etc. etc. etc. So I am quite happy with the company I have on this side of the debate. You have keep hypocrits like Farage, Gove and Boris. I like the way that you claim not to be racist, but obviously just throwing out foreigners isn't enough for you, you want to throw out the Brits that didn't agree with you either! I'm sure if you had your way people like me would be rounded up and put into camps, just like your heroes from Germany did 70 years ago. You seem to be very happy to take rights away from millions of people, so I wouldn't be surprised if you want to take away my freedom for daring to disagree with you.
Right let's make this easy for you.
1. Where did I claim not to be racist in that statement?
Answer,I didn't I said and quote
"You move goal posts when you lose your argument (daily) then say it's racism!!"
2 as for throwing anybody out of this country, and I quote again,
"Let me let you in on a little secret not everybody who voted out voted out for economic reasons or immigration reason" I think that statement shows my vote was not based on imagination.
So now we have proved you twist, make up, plain lie about other people's words why should anybody listen to your copy and paste dribble that you carry on dishing out? If you had any credibility before Brexit you certainly don't now.
The proof is in the pudding look back through all that dribble you paste and look at the replys and comments it receives.
Oh I forget you can't possibly be wrong with all these experts for company
So for the record, you are not, and have never claimed, not to be racist? "Default setting again | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. Why do the left insist on labelling anyone right of their own views far right? Are all labour lib dems etc in league with stalin? The left like the Telegraph? www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/who-are-the-afd-the-far-right-party-hoping-to-end-merkels-reign/ Or the left like The Economist? www.economist.com/news/europe/21706435-after-beating-angela-merkels-party-mecklenburg-west-pomerania-populists-aim Or the left like the Daily Express?www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/711596/Europe-far-right-rise-open-door-policy-neo-Nazis-migrants If these papers consider them to be far right, but you dont, perhaps that says more about your political leanings than mine? Just a thought. If you consider everything you copy and paste to be bang on the truth maybe that says something about you. Just a thought
Thinking everyone else is wrong, and you are the only person who is right also says a lot about you.
and you are never wrong? Let's have this straight you my little troll have contradicted, embarrassed,ignored facts to suit your agenda. You move goal posts when you lose your argument (daily) then say it's racism!! You are exactly what's wrong with this fcked up country. A bit of honesty on your part and you wouldn't look such a prick on a daily basis. Your view on this debate/brexit is self fulfilling. Let me let you in on a little secret not everybody who voted out voted out for economic reasons or immigration reasons. Some people voted purely on the basis of governing ourselves and our country in the future. If you don't like it fck off to Europe and live there this country would be a much better place without spineless divs like yourself.
Well the people who agree with me are Nobel prize winners, every head of state in the world, some of the best thinkers the world has ever known like Steven Hawking, world class businessmen like Richard Branson, our military and security leadership etc. etc. etc. So I am quite happy with the company I have on this side of the debate. You have keep hypocrits like Farage, Gove and Boris. I like the way that you claim not to be racist, but obviously just throwing out foreigners isn't enough for you, you want to throw out the Brits that didn't agree with you either! I'm sure if you had your way people like me would be rounded up and put into camps, just like your heroes from Germany did 70 years ago. You seem to be very happy to take rights away from millions of people, so I wouldn't be surprised if you want to take away my freedom for daring to disagree with you.
Right let's make this easy for you.
1. Where did I claim not to be racist in that statement?
Answer,I didn't I said and quote
"You move goal posts when you lose your argument (daily) then say it's racism!!"
2 as for throwing anybody out of this country, and I quote again,
"Let me let you in on a little secret not everybody who voted out voted out for economic reasons or immigration reason" I think that statement shows my vote was not based on imagination.
So now we have proved you twist, make up, plain lie about other people's words why should anybody listen to your copy and paste dribble that you carry on dishing out? If you had any credibility before Brexit you certainly don't now.
The proof is in the pudding look back through all that dribble you paste and look at the replys and comments it receives.
Oh I forget you can't possibly be wrong with all these experts for company "But who are these "experts"? Steven Hawking? OK probably the greatest physicist of his generation, but he is not really well known as an economist or politician. Richard Branson? Oh yes doesn't he love to pontificate from his private island in the Caribbean. The military? Hmm. I think you will find a fair number supported Brexit. "Every" (That's a big word) head of state in the world? Beyond the EU America and Japan (all with a vested interests) there were very few others who even passed comment. Nobel prize winners? I'll bet it doesn't include Joseph Stiglitz (who got his for economics BTW) | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. Why do the left insist on labelling anyone right of their own views far right? Are all labour lib dems etc in league with stalin? The left like the Telegraph? www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/who-are-the-afd-the-far-right-party-hoping-to-end-merkels-reign/ Or the left like The Economist? www.economist.com/news/europe/21706435-after-beating-angela-merkels-party-mecklenburg-west-pomerania-populists-aim Or the left like the Daily Express?www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/711596/Europe-far-right-rise-open-door-policy-neo-Nazis-migrants If these papers consider them to be far right, but you dont, perhaps that says more about your political leanings than mine? Just a thought. If you consider everything you copy and paste to be bang on the truth maybe that says something about you. Just a thought
Thinking everyone else is wrong, and you are the only person who is right also says a lot about you.
and you are never wrong? Let's have this straight you my little troll have contradicted, embarrassed,ignored facts to suit your agenda. You move goal posts when you lose your argument (daily) then say it's racism!! You are exactly what's wrong with this fcked up country. A bit of honesty on your part and you wouldn't look such a prick on a daily basis. Your view on this debate/brexit is self fulfilling. Let me let you in on a little secret not everybody who voted out voted out for economic reasons or immigration reasons. Some people voted purely on the basis of governing ourselves and our country in the future. If you don't like it fck off to Europe and live there this country would be a much better place without spineless divs like yourself.
Well the people who agree with me are Nobel prize winners, every head of state in the world, some of the best thinkers the world has ever known like Steven Hawking, world class businessmen like Richard Branson, our military and security leadership etc. etc. etc. So I am quite happy with the company I have on this side of the debate. You have keep hypocrits like Farage, Gove and Boris. I like the way that you claim not to be racist, but obviously just throwing out foreigners isn't enough for you, you want to throw out the Brits that didn't agree with you either! I'm sure if you had your way people like me would be rounded up and put into camps, just like your heroes from Germany did 70 years ago. You seem to be very happy to take rights away from millions of people, so I wouldn't be surprised if you want to take away my freedom for daring to disagree with you.
Right let's make this easy for you.
1. Where did I claim not to be racist in that statement?
Answer,I didn't I said and quote
"You move goal posts when you lose your argument (daily) then say it's racism!!"
2 as for throwing anybody out of this country, and I quote again,
"Let me let you in on a little secret not everybody who voted out voted out for economic reasons or immigration reason" I think that statement shows my vote was not based on imagination.
So now we have proved you twist, make up, plain lie about other people's words why should anybody listen to your copy and paste dribble that you carry on dishing out? If you had any credibility before Brexit you certainly don't now.
The proof is in the pudding look back through all that dribble you paste and look at the replys and comments it receives.
Oh I forget you can't possibly be wrong with all these experts for company
But who are these "experts"?
Steven Hawking? OK probably the greatest physicist of his generation, but he is not really well known as an economist or politician.
Richard Branson? Oh yes doesn't he love to pontificate from his private island in the Caribbean.
The military? Hmm. I think you will find a fair number supported Brexit.
"Every" (That's a big word) head of state in the world? Beyond the EU America and Japan (all with a vested interests) there were very few others who even passed comment.
Nobel prize winners? I'll bet it doesn't include Joseph Stiglitz (who got his for economics BTW)
"Stephen hawking wasn't talking about the economy, he was talking about the impact on scientific research. You disagree that every other head of state thinks Brexit is a bad idea? Ok prove it. Give me a quote from 3 heads of state that publicly stated Brexit was a good idea. There were multiple nobel prize winners across the various fields who said Brexit was a bad idea, but I'm sure you're smarter and more informed than they are, remind me what your Nobel prize was in? | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. Why do the left insist on labelling anyone right of their own views far right? Are all labour lib dems etc in league with stalin? The left like the Telegraph? www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/who-are-the-afd-the-far-right-party-hoping-to-end-merkels-reign/ Or the left like The Economist? www.economist.com/news/europe/21706435-after-beating-angela-merkels-party-mecklenburg-west-pomerania-populists-aim Or the left like the Daily Express?www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/711596/Europe-far-right-rise-open-door-policy-neo-Nazis-migrants If these papers consider them to be far right, but you dont, perhaps that says more about your political leanings than mine? Just a thought. If you consider everything you copy and paste to be bang on the truth maybe that says something about you. Just a thought
Thinking everyone else is wrong, and you are the only person who is right also says a lot about you.
and you are never wrong? Let's have this straight you my little troll have contradicted, embarrassed,ignored facts to suit your agenda. You move goal posts when you lose your argument (daily) then say it's racism!! You are exactly what's wrong with this fcked up country. A bit of honesty on your part and you wouldn't look such a prick on a daily basis. Your view on this debate/brexit is self fulfilling. Let me let you in on a little secret not everybody who voted out voted out for economic reasons or immigration reasons. Some people voted purely on the basis of governing ourselves and our country in the future. If you don't like it fck off to Europe and live there this country would be a much better place without spineless divs like yourself.
Well the people who agree with me are Nobel prize winners, every head of state in the world, some of the best thinkers the world has ever known like Steven Hawking, world class businessmen like Richard Branson, our military and security leadership etc. etc. etc. So I am quite happy with the company I have on this side of the debate. You have keep hypocrits like Farage, Gove and Boris. I like the way that you claim not to be racist, but obviously just throwing out foreigners isn't enough for you, you want to throw out the Brits that didn't agree with you either! I'm sure if you had your way people like me would be rounded up and put into camps, just like your heroes from Germany did 70 years ago. You seem to be very happy to take rights away from millions of people, so I wouldn't be surprised if you want to take away my freedom for daring to disagree with you.
Right let's make this easy for you.
1. Where did I claim not to be racist in that statement?
Answer,I didn't I said and quote
"You move goal posts when you lose your argument (daily) then say it's racism!!"
2 as for throwing anybody out of this country, and I quote again,
"Let me let you in on a little secret not everybody who voted out voted out for economic reasons or immigration reason" I think that statement shows my vote was not based on imagination.
So now we have proved you twist, make up, plain lie about other people's words why should anybody listen to your copy and paste dribble that you carry on dishing out? If you had any credibility before Brexit you certainly don't now.
The proof is in the pudding look back through all that dribble you paste and look at the replys and comments it receives.
Oh I forget you can't possibly be wrong with all these experts for company
But who are these "experts"?
Steven Hawking? OK probably the greatest physicist of his generation, but he is not really well known as an economist or politician.
Richard Branson? Oh yes doesn't he love to pontificate from his private island in the Caribbean.
The military? Hmm. I think you will find a fair number supported Brexit.
"Every" (That's a big word) head of state in the world? Beyond the EU America and Japan (all with a vested interests) there were very few others who even passed comment.
Nobel prize winners? I'll bet it doesn't include Joseph Stiglitz (who got his for economics BTW)
Stephen hawking wasn't talking about the economy, he was talking about the impact on scientific research.
You disagree that every other head of state thinks Brexit is a bad idea? Ok prove it. Give me a quote from 3 heads of state that publicly stated Brexit was a good idea. There were multiple nobel prize winners across the various fields who said Brexit was a bad idea, but I'm sure you're smarter and more informed than they are, remind me what your Nobel prize was in? "How can anyone know something is a bad idea if it has,nt happened yet? And most of your so called experts are now changing their minds. | |||
" How can anyone know something is a bad idea if it has,nt happened yet? And most of your so called experts are now changing their minds. "Why do you call them "so called" experts? You honestly believe that Stephen hawking doesn't qualify as an expert in science? You honestly believe that Richard Branson doesnt qualify as an expert in business? That the Secretary General of NATO doesn't qualify as an expert in defence? Really? | |||
" How can anyone know something is a bad idea if it has,nt happened yet? And most of your so called experts are now changing their minds.
Why do you call them "so called" experts? You honestly believe that Stephen hawking doesn't qualify as an expert in science? You honestly believe that Richard Branson doesnt qualify as an expert in business? That the Secretary General of NATO doesn't qualify as an expert in defence? Really? "Who's the qualified expert in leaving the EU? | |||
"When will politicians learn the lesson of history? Force your population to accept things they dont want to and you breed extremism, the leaders of the EU need to take heed of the people who pay their wages and obey their demands not carry on telling them that the EU super state is the only way forward, it could be a very scary time unless these fools see sense" Not a chance of that! | |||
" How can anyone know something is a bad idea if it has,nt happened yet? And most of your so called experts are now changing their minds.
Why do you call them "so called" experts? You honestly believe that Stephen hawking doesn't qualify as an expert in science? You honestly believe that Richard Branson doesnt qualify as an expert in business? That the Secretary General of NATO doesn't qualify as an expert in defence? Really?
Who's the qualified expert in leaving the EU?"Who is qualified to say we should stay in the EU lol. You have to be an idiot to want to stay in the EU as is being proved now and will be in the future.Nato is a political joke and Stephen Hawkins is a scientist which means he has little or no common sense,they are very single minded. As for Branson he is one buisiness man many others disagree with him there is very mixed views. | |||
" How can anyone know something is a bad idea if it has,nt happened yet? And most of your so called experts are now changing their minds.
Why do you call them "so called" experts? You honestly believe that Stephen hawking doesn't qualify as an expert in science? You honestly believe that Richard Branson doesnt qualify as an expert in business? That the Secretary General of NATO doesn't qualify as an expert in defence? Really? "There you go again twisting words I said most of if you read it correctly. | |||
" How can anyone know something is a bad idea if it has,nt happened yet? And most of your so called experts are now changing their minds.
Why do you call them "so called" experts? You honestly believe that Stephen hawking doesn't qualify as an expert in science? You honestly believe that Richard Branson doesnt qualify as an expert in business? That the Secretary General of NATO doesn't qualify as an expert in defence? Really?
There you go again twisting words I said most of if you read it correctly.
"You said most had changed their mind, not that they weren't "so called" experts. You have failed to answer my questions. | |||
" How can anyone know something is a bad idea if it has,nt happened yet? And most of your so called experts are now changing their minds.
Why do you call them "so called" experts? You honestly believe that Stephen hawking doesn't qualify as an expert in science? You honestly believe that Richard Branson doesnt qualify as an expert in business? That the Secretary General of NATO doesn't qualify as an expert in defence? Really?
Who's the qualified expert in leaving the EU?Who is qualified to say we should stay in the EU lol.
You have to be an idiot to want to stay in the EU as is being proved now and will be in the future.Nato is a political joke and Stephen Hawkins is a scientist which means he has little or no common sense,they are very single minded.
As for Branson he is one buisiness man many others disagree with him there is very mixed views."The question wasn't about whether or not you agree with them on Brexit. The question was are they experts in their field. If you don't believe that they are, please can you share your definition of what an expert is? | |||
" How can anyone know something is a bad idea if it has,nt happened yet? And most of your so called experts are now changing their minds.
Why do you call them "so called" experts? You honestly believe that Stephen hawking doesn't qualify as an expert in science? You honestly believe that Richard Branson doesnt qualify as an expert in business? That the Secretary General of NATO doesn't qualify as an expert in defence? Really?
There you go again twisting words I said most of if you read it correctly.
You said most had changed their mind, not that they weren't "so called" experts. You have failed to answer my questions. "Well if they were experts in Brexit they would,nt have to change their minds now would they. | |||
" How can anyone know something is a bad idea if it has,nt happened yet? And most of your so called experts are now changing their minds.
Why do you call them "so called" experts? You honestly believe that Stephen hawking doesn't qualify as an expert in science? You honestly believe that Richard Branson doesnt qualify as an expert in business? That the Secretary General of NATO doesn't qualify as an expert in defence? Really?
Who's the qualified expert in leaving the EU?Who is qualified to say we should stay in the EU lol.
You have to be an idiot to want to stay in the EU as is being proved now and will be in the future.Nato is a political joke and Stephen Hawkins is a scientist which means he has little or no common sense,they are very single minded.
As for Branson he is one buisiness man many others disagree with him there is very mixed views.
The question wasn't about whether or not you agree with them on Brexit. The question was are they experts in their field. If you don't believe that they are, please can you share your definition of what an expert is? "They are experts in their field but not in Brexit no one is. | |||
" How can anyone know something is a bad idea if it has,nt happened yet? And most of your so called experts are now changing their minds.
Why do you call them "so called" experts? You honestly believe that Stephen hawking doesn't qualify as an expert in science? You honestly believe that Richard Branson doesnt qualify as an expert in business? That the Secretary General of NATO doesn't qualify as an expert in defence? Really?
There you go again twisting words I said most of if you read it correctly.
You said most had changed their mind, not that they weren't "so called" experts. You have failed to answer my questions.
Well if they were experts in Brexit they would,nt have to change their minds now would they. "Nigel Farage has changed his mind, he wants to remain in the EU now anyway. | |||
" How can anyone know something is a bad idea if it has,nt happened yet? And most of your so called experts are now changing their minds.
Why do you call them "so called" experts? You honestly believe that Stephen hawking doesn't qualify as an expert in science? You honestly believe that Richard Branson doesnt qualify as an expert in business? That the Secretary General of NATO doesn't qualify as an expert in defence? Really?
Who's the qualified expert in leaving the EU?Who is qualified to say we should stay in the EU lol.
You have to be an idiot to want to stay in the EU as is being proved now and will be in the future.Nato is a political joke and Stephen Hawkins is a scientist which means he has little or no common sense,they are very single minded.
As for Branson he is one buisiness man many others disagree with him there is very mixed views.
The question wasn't about whether or not you agree with them on Brexit. The question was are they experts in their field. If you don't believe that they are, please can you share your definition of what an expert is? "Lionel Messi is an expert in his field but what the fuck would he know about leaving the EU? Well, about as much as all the others frankly so what's the point of bringing them up in any debate? | |||
" How can anyone know something is a bad idea if it has,nt happened yet? And most of your so called experts are now changing their minds.
Why do you call them "so called" experts? You honestly believe that Stephen hawking doesn't qualify as an expert in science? You honestly believe that Richard Branson doesnt qualify as an expert in business? That the Secretary General of NATO doesn't qualify as an expert in defence? Really?
There you go again twisting words I said most of if you read it correctly.
You said most had changed their mind, not that they weren't "so called" experts. You have failed to answer my questions.
Well if they were experts in Brexit they would,nt have to change their minds now would they.
Nigel Farage has changed his mind, he wants to remain in the EU now anyway."That is the most sensible/accurate thing you've ever said | |||
" How can anyone know something is a bad idea if it has,nt happened yet? And most of your so called experts are now changing their minds.
Why do you call them "so called" experts? You honestly believe that Stephen hawking doesn't qualify as an expert in science? You honestly believe that Richard Branson doesnt qualify as an expert in business? That the Secretary General of NATO doesn't qualify as an expert in defence? Really?
There you go again twisting words I said most of if you read it correctly.
You said most had changed their mind, not that they weren't "so called" experts. You have failed to answer my questions.
Well if they were experts in Brexit they would,nt have to change their minds now would they.
Nigel Farage has changed his mind, he wants to remain in the EU now anyway."Ha ha ha Does he well he,ll be disappointed too then wont he. | |||
" How can anyone know something is a bad idea if it has,nt happened yet? And most of your so called experts are now changing their minds.
Why do you call them "so called" experts? You honestly believe that Stephen hawking doesn't qualify as an expert in science? You honestly believe that Richard Branson doesnt qualify as an expert in business? That the Secretary General of NATO doesn't qualify as an expert in defence? Really?
Who's the qualified expert in leaving the EU?Who is qualified to say we should stay in the EU lol.
You have to be an idiot to want to stay in the EU as is being proved now and will be in the future.Nato is a political joke and Stephen Hawkins is a scientist which means he has little or no common sense,they are very single minded.
As for Branson he is one buisiness man many others disagree with him there is very mixed views.
The question wasn't about whether or not you agree with them on Brexit. The question was are they experts in their field. If you don't believe that they are, please can you share your definition of what an expert is?
They are experts in their field but not in Brexit no one is. " | |||
" How can anyone know something is a bad idea if it has,nt happened yet? And most of your so called experts are now changing their minds.
Why do you call them "so called" experts? You honestly believe that Stephen hawking doesn't qualify as an expert in science? You honestly believe that Richard Branson doesnt qualify as an expert in business? That the Secretary General of NATO doesn't qualify as an expert in defence? Really?
Who's the qualified expert in leaving the EU?Who is qualified to say we should stay in the EU lol.
You have to be an idiot to want to stay in the EU as is being proved now and will be in the future.Nato is a political joke and Stephen Hawkins is a scientist which means he has little or no common sense,they are very single minded.
As for Branson he is one buisiness man many others disagree with him there is very mixed views.
The question wasn't about whether or not you agree with them on Brexit. The question was are they experts in their field. If you don't believe that they are, please can you share your definition of what an expert is?
They are experts in their field but not in Brexit no one is. "So you really think that an expert in their field, wouldn't be able to tell you the impact on their field? I was assuming that people who voted for Brexit did so because they thought it would have a positive impact, but if you believe that even experts in their fields couldn't predict the impact that it would have in their field, then there is no way that anyone who voted Brexit could possibly do so and predict a positive outcome. | |||
" How can anyone know something is a bad idea if it has,nt happened yet? And most of your so called experts are now changing their minds.
Why do you call them "so called" experts? You honestly believe that Stephen hawking doesn't qualify as an expert in science? You honestly believe that Richard Branson doesnt qualify as an expert in business? That the Secretary General of NATO doesn't qualify as an expert in defence? Really?
Who's the qualified expert in leaving the EU?Who is qualified to say we should stay in the EU lol.
You have to be an idiot to want to stay in the EU as is being proved now and will be in the future.Nato is a political joke and Stephen Hawkins is a scientist which means he has little or no common sense,they are very single minded.
As for Branson he is one buisiness man many others disagree with him there is very mixed views.
The question wasn't about whether or not you agree with them on Brexit. The question was are they experts in their field. If you don't believe that they are, please can you share your definition of what an expert is?
They are experts in their field but not in Brexit no one is.
So you really think that an expert in their field, wouldn't be able to tell you the impact on their field?
I was assuming that people who voted for Brexit did so because they thought it would have a positive impact, but if you believe that even experts in their fields couldn't predict the impact that it would have in their field, then there is no way that anyone who voted Brexit could possibly do so and predict a positive outcome."What part of no one can know how Brexit will affect anything the fact remains over 17 million people want our country back. Yes there is a big risk we will get bitten on the arse but at least we will have tried instead of being walked all over by the EU. | |||
" How can anyone know something is a bad idea if it has,nt happened yet? And most of your so called experts are now changing their minds.
Why do you call them "so called" experts? You honestly believe that Stephen hawking doesn't qualify as an expert in science? You honestly believe that Richard Branson doesnt qualify as an expert in business? That the Secretary General of NATO doesn't qualify as an expert in defence? Really?
Who's the qualified expert in leaving the EU?Who is qualified to say we should stay in the EU lol.
You have to be an idiot to want to stay in the EU as is being proved now and will be in the future.Nato is a political joke and Stephen Hawkins is a scientist which means he has little or no common sense,they are very single minded.
As for Branson he is one buisiness man many others disagree with him there is very mixed views.
The question wasn't about whether or not you agree with them on Brexit. The question was are they experts in their field. If you don't believe that they are, please can you share your definition of what an expert is?
They are experts in their field but not in Brexit no one is.
So you really think that an expert in their field, wouldn't be able to tell you the impact on their field?
I was assuming that people who voted for Brexit did so because they thought it would have a positive impact, but if you believe that even experts in their fields couldn't predict the impact that it would have in their field, then there is no way that anyone who voted Brexit could possibly do so and predict a positive outcome.
What part of no one can know how Brexit will affect anything the fact remains over 17 million people want our country back.
Yes there is a big risk we will get bitten on the arse but at least we will have tried instead of being walked all over by the EU. "There was a huge spike in suicides during the last recession. If we have another recession and another spike in suicides as a result of Brexit, are you going to tell those familes left behind "well at least we tried"? | |||
" How can anyone know something is a bad idea if it has,nt happened yet? And most of your so called experts are now changing their minds.
Why do you call them "so called" experts? You honestly believe that Stephen hawking doesn't qualify as an expert in science? You honestly believe that Richard Branson doesnt qualify as an expert in business? That the Secretary General of NATO doesn't qualify as an expert in defence? Really?
Who's the qualified expert in leaving the EU?Who is qualified to say we should stay in the EU lol.
You have to be an idiot to want to stay in the EU as is being proved now and will be in the future.Nato is a political joke and Stephen Hawkins is a scientist which means he has little or no common sense,they are very single minded.
As for Branson he is one buisiness man many others disagree with him there is very mixed views.
The question wasn't about whether or not you agree with them on Brexit. The question was are they experts in their field. If you don't believe that they are, please can you share your definition of what an expert is?
They are experts in their field but not in Brexit no one is.
So you really think that an expert in their field, wouldn't be able to tell you the impact on their field?
I was assuming that people who voted for Brexit did so because they thought it would have a positive impact, but if you believe that even experts in their fields couldn't predict the impact that it would have in their field, then there is no way that anyone who voted Brexit could possibly do so and predict a positive outcome.
What part of no one can know how Brexit will affect anything the fact remains over 17 million people want our country back.
Yes there is a big risk we will get bitten on the arse but at least we will have tried instead of being walked all over by the EU.
There was a huge spike in suicides during the last recession. If we have another recession and another spike in suicides as a result of Brexit, are you going to tell those familes left behind "well at least we tried"? "I wont have to there are 17 million other people can do that if they want, I,ll be on here listening to you saying "I TOLD YOU SO". | |||
| |||
"I really can't get my head around the fact that you people honestly dont believe that an expert in their field wouldn't be able consider the impact that Brexit will have on their industry. Lets take the fruit picking industry for example, they might know for example that 90%+ of their workforce are unskilled migrants from the EU. They would know that their staff are likely to work in other parts of the EUs if there is no longer freedom of movement into the UK. They know that they won't be able to hire the staff that they need, after all, these jobs have been open to Brits for all these years but no one wants to do it. You dont think that they could possibly come to a decision on the positive or negative impact of Brexit? " I don't remember anyone saying CLOSE are borders I do remember lots of people saying CONTROL our borders which means we can let in who we want and keep out those we don't want. If you can not understand that ask one of your experts to explain it to you. | |||
" How can anyone know something is a bad idea if it has,nt happened yet? And most of your so called experts are now changing their minds.
Why do you call them "so called" experts? You honestly believe that Stephen hawking doesn't qualify as an expert in science? You honestly believe that Richard Branson doesnt qualify as an expert in business? That the Secretary General of NATO doesn't qualify as an expert in defence? Really?
There you go again twisting words I said most of if you read it correctly.
You said most had changed their mind, not that they weren't "so called" experts. You have failed to answer my questions. "And you said "EVERY" head of state so I only have to find one out of over 200 who either said it was a good idea or didn't comment at all. So I'll start with Putin and Mugabe. I told you "EVERY" was a big word.  | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. Why do the left insist on labelling anyone right of their own views far right? Are all labour lib dems etc in league with stalin? The left like the Telegraph? www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/who-are-the-afd-the-far-right-party-hoping-to-end-merkels-reign/ Or the left like The Economist? www.economist.com/news/europe/21706435-after-beating-angela-merkels-party-mecklenburg-west-pomerania-populists-aim Or the left like the Daily Express?www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/711596/Europe-far-right-rise-open-door-policy-neo-Nazis-migrants If these papers consider them to be far right, but you dont, perhaps that says more about your political leanings than mine? Just a thought. If you consider everything you copy and paste to be bang on the truth maybe that says something about you. Just a thought
Thinking everyone else is wrong, and you are the only person who is right also says a lot about you.
and you are never wrong? Let's have this straight you my little troll have contradicted, embarrassed,ignored facts to suit your agenda. You move goal posts when you lose your argument (daily) then say it's racism!! You are exactly what's wrong with this fcked up country. A bit of honesty on your part and you wouldn't look such a prick on a daily basis. Your view on this debate/brexit is self fulfilling. Let me let you in on a little secret not everybody who voted out voted out for economic reasons or immigration reasons. Some people voted purely on the basis of governing ourselves and our country in the future. If you don't like it fck off to Europe and live there this country would be a much better place without spineless divs like yourself.
Well the people who agree with me are Nobel prize winners, every head of state in the world, some of the best thinkers the world has ever known like Steven Hawking, world class businessmen like Richard Branson, our military and security leadership etc. etc. etc. So I am quite happy with the company I have on this side of the debate. You have keep hypocrits like Farage, Gove and Boris. I like the way that you claim not to be racist, but obviously just throwing out foreigners isn't enough for you, you want to throw out the Brits that didn't agree with you either! I'm sure if you had your way people like me would be rounded up and put into camps, just like your heroes from Germany did 70 years ago. You seem to be very happy to take rights away from millions of people, so I wouldn't be surprised if you want to take away my freedom for daring to disagree with you.
Right let's make this easy for you.
1. Where did I claim not to be racist in that statement?
Answer,I didn't I said and quote
"You move goal posts when you lose your argument (daily) then say it's racism!!"
2 as for throwing anybody out of this country, and I quote again,
"Let me let you in on a little secret not everybody who voted out voted out for economic reasons or immigration reason" I think that statement shows my vote was not based on imagination.
So now we have proved you twist, make up, plain lie about other people's words why should anybody listen to your copy and paste dribble that you carry on dishing out? If you had any credibility before Brexit you certainly don't now.
The proof is in the pudding look back through all that dribble you paste and look at the replys and comments it receives.
Oh I forget you can't possibly be wrong with all these experts for company
But who are these "experts"?
Steven Hawking? OK probably the greatest physicist of his generation, but he is not really well known as an economist or politician.
Richard Branson? Oh yes doesn't he love to pontificate from his private island in the Caribbean.
The military? Hmm. I think you will find a fair number supported Brexit.
"Every" (That's a big word) head of state in the world? Beyond the EU America and Japan (all with a vested interests) there were very few others who even passed comment.
Nobel prize winners? I'll bet it doesn't include Joseph Stiglitz (who got his for economics BTW)
Stephen hawking wasn't talking about the economy, he was talking about the impact on scientific research.
You disagree that every other head of state thinks Brexit is a bad idea? Ok prove it. Give me a quote from 3 heads of state that publicly stated Brexit was a good idea. There were multiple nobel prize winners across the various fields who said Brexit was a bad idea, but I'm sure you're smarter and more informed than they are, remind me what your Nobel prize was in? "My Nobel prize is the same as yours.
So tell me about all the cuts to scientific research then. When and if there are some then Hawking will have a point, but not until then and on that issue only.
Fair play to Branson, at least he's earned a few quid, but sitting on his Caribbean island pontificating to the plebs back home while dodging tax and thinking about space ships hardly makes him the most respected voice on the planet.
Sure some Nobel prize winners have said that Brexit is a bad idea, it is their opinion and they are entitled to it. However the one I pointed out has the prize for economics and disagrees with them.
As for the heads of state, I don't have to name three or even one that said Brexit was a good idea. As I said above "YOU" said "EVERY" so the onus of proof is on you to name around 200. I only have to find one who didn't comment at all (see above) to prove your lie.
Oh I see you conveniently dropped the military.
As I've said before. Debating with you is akin to wading through treacle wearing lead boots. | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. Why do the left insist on labelling anyone right of their own views far right? Are all labour lib dems etc in league with stalin? The left like the Telegraph? www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/who-are-the-afd-the-far-right-party-hoping-to-end-merkels-reign/ Or the left like The Economist? www.economist.com/news/europe/21706435-after-beating-angela-merkels-party-mecklenburg-west-pomerania-populists-aim Or the left like the Daily Express?www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/711596/Europe-far-right-rise-open-door-policy-neo-Nazis-migrants If these papers consider them to be far right, but you dont, perhaps that says more about your political leanings than mine? Just a thought. If you consider everything you copy and paste to be bang on the truth maybe that says something about you. Just a thought
Thinking everyone else is wrong, and you are the only person who is right also says a lot about you.
and you are never wrong? Let's have this straight you my little troll have contradicted, embarrassed,ignored facts to suit your agenda. You move goal posts when you lose your argument (daily) then say it's racism!! You are exactly what's wrong with this fcked up country. A bit of honesty on your part and you wouldn't look such a prick on a daily basis. Your view on this debate/brexit is self fulfilling. Let me let you in on a little secret not everybody who voted out voted out for economic reasons or immigration reasons. Some people voted purely on the basis of governing ourselves and our country in the future. If you don't like it fck off to Europe and live there this country would be a much better place without spineless divs like yourself.
Well the people who agree with me are Nobel prize winners, every head of state in the world, some of the best thinkers the world has ever known like Steven Hawking, world class businessmen like Richard Branson, our military and security leadership etc. etc. etc. So I am quite happy with the company I have on this side of the debate. You have keep hypocrits like Farage, Gove and Boris. I like the way that you claim not to be racist, but obviously just throwing out foreigners isn't enough for you, you want to throw out the Brits that didn't agree with you either! I'm sure if you had your way people like me would be rounded up and put into camps, just like your heroes from Germany did 70 years ago. You seem to be very happy to take rights away from millions of people, so I wouldn't be surprised if you want to take away my freedom for daring to disagree with you.
Right let's make this easy for you.
1. Where did I claim not to be racist in that statement?
Answer,I didn't I said and quote
"You move goal posts when you lose your argument (daily) then say it's racism!!"
2 as for throwing anybody out of this country, and I quote again,
"Let me let you in on a little secret not everybody who voted out voted out for economic reasons or immigration reason" I think that statement shows my vote was not based on imagination.
So now we have proved you twist, make up, plain lie about other people's words why should anybody listen to your copy and paste dribble that you carry on dishing out? If you had any credibility before Brexit you certainly don't now.
The proof is in the pudding look back through all that dribble you paste and look at the replys and comments it receives.
Oh I forget you can't possibly be wrong with all these experts for company
But who are these "experts"?
Steven Hawking? OK probably the greatest physicist of his generation, but he is not really well known as an economist or politician.
Richard Branson? Oh yes doesn't he love to pontificate from his private island in the Caribbean.
The military? Hmm. I think you will find a fair number supported Brexit.
"Every" (That's a big word) head of state in the world? Beyond the EU America and Japan (all with a vested interests) there were very few others who even passed comment.
Nobel prize winners? I'll bet it doesn't include Joseph Stiglitz (who got his for economics BTW)
Stephen hawking wasn't talking about the economy, he was talking about the impact on scientific research.
You disagree that every other head of state thinks Brexit is a bad idea? Ok prove it. Give me a quote from 3 heads of state that publicly stated Brexit was a good idea. There were multiple nobel prize winners across the various fields who said Brexit was a bad idea, but I'm sure you're smarter and more informed than they are, remind me what your Nobel prize was in?
My Nobel prize is the same as yours.
So tell me about all the cuts to scientific research then. When and if there are some then Hawking will have a point, but not until then and on that issue only.
Fair play to Branson, at least he's earned a few quid, but sitting on his Caribbean island pontificating to the plebs back home while dodging tax and thinking about space ships hardly makes him the most respected voice on the planet.
Sure some Nobel prize winners have said that Brexit is a bad idea, it is their opinion and they are entitled to it. However the one I pointed out has the prize for economics and disagrees with them.
As for the heads of state, I don't have to name three or even one that said Brexit was a good idea. As I said above "YOU" said "EVERY" so the onus of proof is on you to name around 200. I only have to find one who didn't comment at all (see above) to prove your lie.
Oh I see you conveniently dropped the military.
As I've said before. Debating with you is akin to wading through treacle wearing lead boots."I haven't dropped anything. As per usual you make your claims without anything to back it up. I thought I would make it easy for you and yet you still can't produce a quote from a world leader (head of state or head of government) that says Brexit is a good idea! If you want we can see look at military leaders and see how many stars the Pro-Brexit officers earned and how many the Anti-Brexit earned, are you up for that? We could play another game of how many Nobel prize winners are pro and how many are anti, fancy that? | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. Why do the left insist on labelling anyone right of their own views far right? Are all labour lib dems etc in league with stalin? The left like the Telegraph? www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/who-are-the-afd-the-far-right-party-hoping-to-end-merkels-reign/ Or the left like The Economist? www.economist.com/news/europe/21706435-after-beating-angela-merkels-party-mecklenburg-west-pomerania-populists-aim Or the left like the Daily Express?www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/711596/Europe-far-right-rise-open-door-policy-neo-Nazis-migrants If these papers consider them to be far right, but you dont, perhaps that says more about your political leanings than mine? Just a thought. If you consider everything you copy and paste to be bang on the truth maybe that says something about you. Just a thought
Thinking everyone else is wrong, and you are the only person who is right also says a lot about you.
and you are never wrong? Let's have this straight you my little troll have contradicted, embarrassed,ignored facts to suit your agenda. You move goal posts when you lose your argument (daily) then say it's racism!! You are exactly what's wrong with this fcked up country. A bit of honesty on your part and you wouldn't look such a prick on a daily basis. Your view on this debate/brexit is self fulfilling. Let me let you in on a little secret not everybody who voted out voted out for economic reasons or immigration reasons. Some people voted purely on the basis of governing ourselves and our country in the future. If you don't like it fck off to Europe and live there this country would be a much better place without spineless divs like yourself.
Well the people who agree with me are Nobel prize winners, every head of state in the world, some of the best thinkers the world has ever known like Steven Hawking, world class businessmen like Richard Branson, our military and security leadership etc. etc. etc. So I am quite happy with the company I have on this side of the debate. You have keep hypocrits like Farage, Gove and Boris. I like the way that you claim not to be racist, but obviously just throwing out foreigners isn't enough for you, you want to throw out the Brits that didn't agree with you either! I'm sure if you had your way people like me would be rounded up and put into camps, just like your heroes from Germany did 70 years ago. You seem to be very happy to take rights away from millions of people, so I wouldn't be surprised if you want to take away my freedom for daring to disagree with you.
Right let's make this easy for you.
1. Where did I claim not to be racist in that statement?
Answer,I didn't I said and quote
"You move goal posts when you lose your argument (daily) then say it's racism!!"
2 as for throwing anybody out of this country, and I quote again,
"Let me let you in on a little secret not everybody who voted out voted out for economic reasons or immigration reason" I think that statement shows my vote was not based on imagination.
So now we have proved you twist, make up, plain lie about other people's words why should anybody listen to your copy and paste dribble that you carry on dishing out? If you had any credibility before Brexit you certainly don't now.
The proof is in the pudding look back through all that dribble you paste and look at the replys and comments it receives.
Oh I forget you can't possibly be wrong with all these experts for company
But who are these "experts"?
Steven Hawking? OK probably the greatest physicist of his generation, but he is not really well known as an economist or politician.
Richard Branson? Oh yes doesn't he love to pontificate from his private island in the Caribbean.
The military? Hmm. I think you will find a fair number supported Brexit.
"Every" (That's a big word) head of state in the world? Beyond the EU America and Japan (all with a vested interests) there were very few others who even passed comment.
Nobel prize winners? I'll bet it doesn't include Joseph Stiglitz (who got his for economics BTW)
Stephen hawking wasn't talking about the economy, he was talking about the impact on scientific research.
You disagree that every other head of state thinks Brexit is a bad idea? Ok prove it. Give me a quote from 3 heads of state that publicly stated Brexit was a good idea. There were multiple nobel prize winners across the various fields who said Brexit was a bad idea, but I'm sure you're smarter and more informed than they are, remind me what your Nobel prize was in?
My Nobel prize is the same as yours.
So tell me about all the cuts to scientific research then. When and if there are some then Hawking will have a point, but not until then and on that issue only.
Fair play to Branson, at least he's earned a few quid, but sitting on his Caribbean island pontificating to the plebs back home while dodging tax and thinking about space ships hardly makes him the most respected voice on the planet.
Sure some Nobel prize winners have said that Brexit is a bad idea, it is their opinion and they are entitled to it. However the one I pointed out has the prize for economics and disagrees with them.
As for the heads of state, I don't have to name three or even one that said Brexit was a good idea. As I said above "YOU" said "EVERY" so the onus of proof is on you to name around 200. I only have to find one who didn't comment at all (see above) to prove your lie.
Oh I see you conveniently dropped the military.
As I've said before. Debating with you is akin to wading through treacle wearing lead boots.
I haven't dropped anything. As per usual you make your claims without anything to back it up. I thought I would make it easy for you and yet you still can't produce a quote from a world leader (head of state or head of government) that says Brexit is a good idea!
If you want we can see look at military leaders and see how many stars the Pro-Brexit officers earned and how many the Anti-Brexit earned, are you up for that?
We could play another game of how many Nobel prize winners are pro and how many are anti, fancy that?
"Can you produce a quote from a head of state saying that Brexit is a bad idea? And what is the number of leaders, military experts and nobel prize winners who made no comment? Or a percentage of those people will do? | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. Why do the left insist on labelling anyone right of their own views far right? Are all labour lib dems etc in league with stalin? The left like the Telegraph? www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/who-are-the-afd-the-far-right-party-hoping-to-end-merkels-reign/ Or the left like The Economist? www.economist.com/news/europe/21706435-after-beating-angela-merkels-party-mecklenburg-west-pomerania-populists-aim Or the left like the Daily Express?www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/711596/Europe-far-right-rise-open-door-policy-neo-Nazis-migrants If these papers consider them to be far right, but you dont, perhaps that says more about your political leanings than mine? Just a thought. If you consider everything you copy and paste to be bang on the truth maybe that says something about you. Just a thought
Thinking everyone else is wrong, and you are the only person who is right also says a lot about you.
and you are never wrong? Let's have this straight you my little troll have contradicted, embarrassed,ignored facts to suit your agenda. You move goal posts when you lose your argument (daily) then say it's racism!! You are exactly what's wrong with this fcked up country. A bit of honesty on your part and you wouldn't look such a prick on a daily basis. Your view on this debate/brexit is self fulfilling. Let me let you in on a little secret not everybody who voted out voted out for economic reasons or immigration reasons. Some people voted purely on the basis of governing ourselves and our country in the future. If you don't like it fck off to Europe and live there this country would be a much better place without spineless divs like yourself.
Well the people who agree with me are Nobel prize winners, every head of state in the world, some of the best thinkers the world has ever known like Steven Hawking, world class businessmen like Richard Branson, our military and security leadership etc. etc. etc. So I am quite happy with the company I have on this side of the debate. You have keep hypocrits like Farage, Gove and Boris. I like the way that you claim not to be racist, but obviously just throwing out foreigners isn't enough for you, you want to throw out the Brits that didn't agree with you either! I'm sure if you had your way people like me would be rounded up and put into camps, just like your heroes from Germany did 70 years ago. You seem to be very happy to take rights away from millions of people, so I wouldn't be surprised if you want to take away my freedom for daring to disagree with you.
Right let's make this easy for you.
1. Where did I claim not to be racist in that statement?
Answer,I didn't I said and quote
"You move goal posts when you lose your argument (daily) then say it's racism!!"
2 as for throwing anybody out of this country, and I quote again,
"Let me let you in on a little secret not everybody who voted out voted out for economic reasons or immigration reason" I think that statement shows my vote was not based on imagination.
So now we have proved you twist, make up, plain lie about other people's words why should anybody listen to your copy and paste dribble that you carry on dishing out? If you had any credibility before Brexit you certainly don't now.
The proof is in the pudding look back through all that dribble you paste and look at the replys and comments it receives.
Oh I forget you can't possibly be wrong with all these experts for company
But who are these "experts"?
Steven Hawking? OK probably the greatest physicist of his generation, but he is not really well known as an economist or politician.
Richard Branson? Oh yes doesn't he love to pontificate from his private island in the Caribbean.
The military? Hmm. I think you will find a fair number supported Brexit.
"Every" (That's a big word) head of state in the world? Beyond the EU America and Japan (all with a vested interests) there were very few others who even passed comment.
Nobel prize winners? I'll bet it doesn't include Joseph Stiglitz (who got his for economics BTW)
Stephen hawking wasn't talking about the economy, he was talking about the impact on scientific research.
You disagree that every other head of state thinks Brexit is a bad idea? Ok prove it. Give me a quote from 3 heads of state that publicly stated Brexit was a good idea. There were multiple nobel prize winners across the various fields who said Brexit was a bad idea, but I'm sure you're smarter and more informed than they are, remind me what your Nobel prize was in?
My Nobel prize is the same as yours.
So tell me about all the cuts to scientific research then. When and if there are some then Hawking will have a point, but not until then and on that issue only.
Fair play to Branson, at least he's earned a few quid, but sitting on his Caribbean island pontificating to the plebs back home while dodging tax and thinking about space ships hardly makes him the most respected voice on the planet.
Sure some Nobel prize winners have said that Brexit is a bad idea, it is their opinion and they are entitled to it. However the one I pointed out has the prize for economics and disagrees with them.
As for the heads of state, I don't have to name three or even one that said Brexit was a good idea. As I said above "YOU" said "EVERY" so the onus of proof is on you to name around 200. I only have to find one who didn't comment at all (see above) to prove your lie.
Oh I see you conveniently dropped the military.
As I've said before. Debating with you is akin to wading through treacle wearing lead boots.
I haven't dropped anything. As per usual you make your claims without anything to back it up. I thought I would make it easy for you and yet you still can't produce a quote from a world leader (head of state or head of government) that says Brexit is a good idea!
If you want we can see look at military leaders and see how many stars the Pro-Brexit officers earned and how many the Anti-Brexit earned, are you up for that?
We could play another game of how many Nobel prize winners are pro and how many are anti, fancy that?
"OK let's get this right. Do you fully understand the meaning of the word "EVERY"? You could have said nearly or almost EVERY but that would still be wrong as the number of heads of state that even commented one way or another probably amounts to less than 50 out of anywhere from 189 to 206 depending on whose list you believe. I've never made any statement about a world leader who backed Brexit. I just pulled you up on your obvious lie that "EVERY head of state in the world agrees with you" So either name the 186 that agree with you (I'll give you a chance by giving you the lower number) or withdraw your blatant lie. I've also never made any statement about how many Nobel prize winners backed Brexit. I just pointed that one prize winning economist does not agree with you. Who really gives a shit how many stars military leaders have on their shoulders? No British ones that's for sure. Stars are so American, we much prefer pips and crowns. Many military leaders backed remain and many others backed brexit. Different opinions and points of view. A bit like us really. You are fully entitled to your opinion and are welcome to quote others who share it. However when you quote opinions as facts and tell down right porkies to try and prove a point I will be here to put you back on the straight and narrow. Have a nice day and try to think things through a bit more before you hit the keyboard. | |||
"I If you want we can see look at military leaders and see how many stars the Pro-Brexit officers earned and how many the Anti-Brexit earned, are you up for that? " | |||
"I If you want we can see look at military leaders and see how many stars the Pro-Brexit officers earned and how many the Anti-Brexit earned, are you up for that? "Must admit that was my first thought as well. | |||
"I If you want we can see look at military leaders and see how many stars the Pro-Brexit officers earned and how many the Anti-Brexit earned, are you up for that? " hilarious innit? | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. Why do the left insist on labelling anyone right of their own views far right? Are all labour lib dems etc in league with stalin? The left like the Telegraph? www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/who-are-the-afd-the-far-right-party-hoping-to-end-merkels-reign/ Or the left like The Economist? www.economist.com/news/europe/21706435-after-beating-angela-merkels-party-mecklenburg-west-pomerania-populists-aim Or the left like the Daily Express?www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/711596/Europe-far-right-rise-open-door-policy-neo-Nazis-migrants If these papers consider them to be far right, but you dont, perhaps that says more about your political leanings than mine? Just a thought. If you consider everything you copy and paste to be bang on the truth maybe that says something about you. Just a thought
Thinking everyone else is wrong, and you are the only person who is right also says a lot about you.
and you are never wrong? Let's have this straight you my little troll have contradicted, embarrassed,ignored facts to suit your agenda. You move goal posts when you lose your argument (daily) then say it's racism!! You are exactly what's wrong with this fcked up country. A bit of honesty on your part and you wouldn't look such a prick on a daily basis. Your view on this debate/brexit is self fulfilling. Let me let you in on a little secret not everybody who voted out voted out for economic reasons or immigration reasons. Some people voted purely on the basis of governing ourselves and our country in the future. If you don't like it fck off to Europe and live there this country would be a much better place without spineless divs like yourself.
Well the people who agree with me are Nobel prize winners, every head of state in the world, some of the best thinkers the world has ever known like Steven Hawking, world class businessmen like Richard Branson, our military and security leadership etc. etc. etc. So I am quite happy with the company I have on this side of the debate. You have keep hypocrits like Farage, Gove and Boris. I like the way that you claim not to be racist, but obviously just throwing out foreigners isn't enough for you, you want to throw out the Brits that didn't agree with you either! I'm sure if you had your way people like me would be rounded up and put into camps, just like your heroes from Germany did 70 years ago. You seem to be very happy to take rights away from millions of people, so I wouldn't be surprised if you want to take away my freedom for daring to disagree with you.
Right let's make this easy for you.
1. Where did I claim not to be racist in that statement?
Answer,I didn't I said and quote
"You move goal posts when you lose your argument (daily) then say it's racism!!"
2 as for throwing anybody out of this country, and I quote again,
"Let me let you in on a little secret not everybody who voted out voted out for economic reasons or immigration reason" I think that statement shows my vote was not based on imagination.
So now we have proved you twist, make up, plain lie about other people's words why should anybody listen to your copy and paste dribble that you carry on dishing out? If you had any credibility before Brexit you certainly don't now.
The proof is in the pudding look back through all that dribble you paste and look at the replys and comments it receives.
Oh I forget you can't possibly be wrong with all these experts for company
But who are these "experts"?
Steven Hawking? OK probably the greatest physicist of his generation, but he is not really well known as an economist or politician.
Richard Branson? Oh yes doesn't he love to pontificate from his private island in the Caribbean.
The military? Hmm. I think you will find a fair number supported Brexit.
"Every" (That's a big word) head of state in the world? Beyond the EU America and Japan (all with a vested interests) there were very few others who even passed comment.
Nobel prize winners? I'll bet it doesn't include Joseph Stiglitz (who got his for economics BTW)
Stephen hawking wasn't talking about the economy, he was talking about the impact on scientific research.
You disagree that every other head of state thinks Brexit is a bad idea? Ok prove it. Give me a quote from 3 heads of state that publicly stated Brexit was a good idea. There were multiple nobel prize winners across the various fields who said Brexit was a bad idea, but I'm sure you're smarter and more informed than they are, remind me what your Nobel prize was in?
My Nobel prize is the same as yours.
So tell me about all the cuts to scientific research then. When and if there are some then Hawking will have a point, but not until then and on that issue only.
Fair play to Branson, at least he's earned a few quid, but sitting on his Caribbean island pontificating to the plebs back home while dodging tax and thinking about space ships hardly makes him the most respected voice on the planet.
Sure some Nobel prize winners have said that Brexit is a bad idea, it is their opinion and they are entitled to it. However the one I pointed out has the prize for economics and disagrees with them.
As for the heads of state, I don't have to name three or even one that said Brexit was a good idea. As I said above "YOU" said "EVERY" so the onus of proof is on you to name around 200. I only have to find one who didn't comment at all (see above) to prove your lie.
Oh I see you conveniently dropped the military.
As I've said before. Debating with you is akin to wading through treacle wearing lead boots.
I haven't dropped anything. As per usual you make your claims without anything to back it up. I thought I would make it easy for you and yet you still can't produce a quote from a world leader (head of state or head of government) that says Brexit is a good idea!
If you want we can see look at military leaders and see how many stars the Pro-Brexit officers earned and how many the Anti-Brexit earned, are you up for that?
We could play another game of how many Nobel prize winners are pro and how many are anti, fancy that?
OK let's get this right. Do you fully understand the meaning of the word "EVERY"?
You could have said nearly or almost EVERY but that would still be wrong as the number of heads of state that even commented one way or another probably amounts to less than 50 out of anywhere from 189 to 206 depending on whose list you believe.
I've never made any statement about a world leader who backed Brexit. I just pulled you up on your obvious lie that "EVERY head of state in the world agrees with you"
So either name the 186 that agree with you (I'll give you a chance by giving you the lower number) or withdraw your blatant lie.
I've also never made any statement about how many Nobel prize winners backed Brexit. I just pointed that one prize winning economist does not agree with you.
Who really gives a shit how many stars military leaders have on their shoulders? No British ones that's for sure. Stars are so American, we much prefer pips and crowns. Many military leaders backed remain and many others backed brexit. Different opinions and points of view. A bit like us really. You are fully entitled to your opinion and are welcome to quote others who share it. However when you quote opinions as facts and tell down right porkies to try and prove a point I will be here to put you back on the straight and narrow.
Have a nice day and try to think things through a bit more before you hit the keyboard."So you can't name a single world leader who supported Brexit then? If what I said was a lie as you claim, then prove it, quote a world leader. You obviously fail to see the irony that you are more concerned about proving me wrong, than the actual point of my arguement about the lack of support for Brexit. Senior military ranks in the British military are referred to as a "one star" or a "three star" etc, but as you didn't know that, I will clarify that I am referring to officers with the NATO rank of OF-6 to OF-10. You say that many backed one side and many backed another. I thought that this would be an objective way of quantifying the relative experience and seniority of those opinions. | |||
" So you can't name a single world leader who supported Brexit then? If what I said was a lie as you claim, then prove it, quote a world leader. You obviously fail to see the irony that you are more concerned about proving me wrong, than the actual point of my arguement about the lack of support for Brexit. Senior military ranks in the British military are referred to as a "one star" or a "three star" etc, but as you didn't know that, I will clarify that I am referring to officers with the NATO rank of OF-6 to OF-10. You say that many backed one side and many backed another. I thought that this would be an objective way of quantifying the relative experience and seniority of those opinions." No I can't but I don't have to. I never made a sweeping statement (AKA lie) that any world leaders supported Brexit. YOU told the blatant lie that EVERY world leader supported remain. So put up or shut up. The stars for denoting rank are American. From one star up to five star General Etc. The British army still uses titles (full) General, Major general, Lieutenant General Etc. Nowhere, not now and never in history has any British General been officially referred to as an any star General. NATO rank codes are just that, codes for seniority purposes. The true rank of any serving officer is from his home country. I will say it again the British military does not and never has used stars for denoting rank. Google it, Wiki it, Uncle Tom Cobley it, you are wrong. As in most things. Go on then let's see how you try to twist that one | |||
" I thought that this would be an objective way of quantifying the relative experience and seniority of those opinions. " Sorry I missed that bit. "An objective way of quantifying"? LOL More like a game of my dad's bigger that your dad to me. So bloody childish. | |||
" I thought that this would be an objective way of quantifying the relative experience and seniority of those opinions. Sorry I missed that bit. "An objective way of quantifying"? LOL More like a game of my dad's bigger that your dad to me. So bloody childish." The rank system is a measure of seniority! How do Brexiters measure the seniority of the military if not by rank? | |||
" So you can't name a single world leader who supported Brexit then? If what I said was a lie as you claim, then prove it, quote a world leader. You obviously fail to see the irony that you are more concerned about proving me wrong, than the actual point of my arguement about the lack of support for Brexit. Senior military ranks in the British military are referred to as a "one star" or a "three star" etc, but as you didn't know that, I will clarify that I am referring to officers with the NATO rank of OF-6 to OF-10. You say that many backed one side and many backed another. I thought that this would be an objective way of quantifying the relative experience and seniority of those opinions. No I can't but I don't have to. I never made a sweeping statement (AKA lie) that any world leaders supported Brexit. YOU told the blatant lie that EVERY world leader supported remain. So put up or shut up. The stars for denoting rank are American. From one star up to five star General Etc. The British army still uses titles (full) General, Major general, Lieutenant General Etc. Nowhere, not now and never in history has any British General been officially referred to as an any star General. NATO rank codes are just that, codes for seniority purposes. The true rank of any serving officer is from his home country. I will say it again the British military does not and never has used stars for denoting rank. Google it, Wiki it, Uncle Tom Cobley it, you are wrong. As in most things. Go on then let's see how you try to twist that one " Yes, we still have full ranks, but the same person can also be referred to as a one-star, two-star, three-star etc. For example a Brigade is usually commanded by a Brigadier (aka a one-star), so when you see a Brigade on an organisational chart (below) it will have 1 star above it, to show that its commanded by a one-star. A Division is usually commanded by a Major General, (aka a two-star) so again, when you see it on a chart, a Division will have two stars above it, to denote that it is commanded by a two-star general. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_(United_Kingdom)_Division#/media/File:1st_Armoured_Division_(UK).png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-star_rank Enjoy | |||
" So you can't name a single world leader who supported Brexit then? If what I said was a lie as you claim, then prove it, quote a world leader. You obviously fail to see the irony that you are more concerned about proving me wrong, than the actual point of my arguement about the lack of support for Brexit. Senior military ranks in the British military are referred to as a "one star" or a "three star" etc, but as you didn't know that, I will clarify that I am referring to officers with the NATO rank of OF-6 to OF-10. You say that many backed one side and many backed another. I thought that this would be an objective way of quantifying the relative experience and seniority of those opinions. No I can't but I don't have to. I never made a sweeping statement (AKA lie) that any world leaders supported Brexit. YOU told the blatant lie that EVERY world leader supported remain. So put up or shut up. The stars for denoting rank are American. From one star up to five star General Etc. The British army still uses titles (full) General, Major general, Lieutenant General Etc. Nowhere, not now and never in history has any British General been officially referred to as an any star General. NATO rank codes are just that, codes for seniority purposes. The true rank of any serving officer is from his home country. I will say it again the British military does not and never has used stars for denoting rank. Google it, Wiki it, Uncle Tom Cobley it, you are wrong. As in most things. Go on then let's see how you try to twist that one Yes, we still have full ranks, but the same person can also be referred to as a one-star, two-star, three-star etc. For example a Brigade is usually commanded by a Brigadier (aka a one-star), so when you see a Brigade on an organisational chart (below) it will have 1 star above it, to show that its commanded by a one-star. A Division is usually commanded by a Major General, (aka a two-star) so again, when you see it on a chart, a Division will have two stars above it, to denote that it is commanded by a two-star general. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_(United_Kingdom)_Division#/media/File:1st_Armoured_Division_(UK).png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-star_rank Enjoy "Yes fully enjoyed. As it clearly states they are NATO ranks. Not the British army, navy or air force. | |||
" So you can't name a single world leader who supported Brexit then? If what I said was a lie as you claim, then prove it, quote a world leader. You obviously fail to see the irony that you are more concerned about proving me wrong, than the actual point of my arguement about the lack of support for Brexit. Senior military ranks in the British military are referred to as a "one star" or a "three star" etc, but as you didn't know that, I will clarify that I am referring to officers with the NATO rank of OF-6 to OF-10. You say that many backed one side and many backed another. I thought that this would be an objective way of quantifying the relative experience and seniority of those opinions. No I can't but I don't have to. I never made a sweeping statement (AKA lie) that any world leaders supported Brexit. YOU told the blatant lie that EVERY world leader supported remain. So put up or shut up. The stars for denoting rank are American. From one star up to five star General Etc. The British army still uses titles (full) General, Major general, Lieutenant General Etc. Nowhere, not now and never in history has any British General been officially referred to as an any star General. NATO rank codes are just that, codes for seniority purposes. The true rank of any serving officer is from his home country. I will say it again the British military does not and never has used stars for denoting rank. Google it, Wiki it, Uncle Tom Cobley it, you are wrong. As in most things. Go on then let's see how you try to twist that one Yes, we still have full ranks, but the same person can also be referred to as a one-star, two-star, three-star etc. For example a Brigade is usually commanded by a Brigadier (aka a one-star), so when you see a Brigade on an organisational chart (below) it will have 1 star above it, to show that its commanded by a one-star. A Division is usually commanded by a Major General, (aka a two-star) so again, when you see it on a chart, a Division will have two stars above it, to denote that it is commanded by a two-star general. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_(United_Kingdom)_Division#/media/File:1st_Armoured_Division_(UK).png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-star_rank Enjoy
Yes fully enjoyed.
As it clearly states they are NATO ranks. Not the British army, navy or air force."No, the NATO rank is OF-6, it states UK One Star ranks are Commodore (RN), Brigadier (Army & RM), and Air Commodore (RAF). I see you conveniently ignored the part about showing stars on organisational charts. | |||
" Senior military ranks in the British military are referred to as a "one star" or a "three star" etc, but as you didn't know that, I will clarify that I am referring to officers with the NATO rank of OF-6 to OF-10. You say that many backed one side and many backed another. I thought that this would be an objective way of quantifying the relative experience and seniority of those opinions." Bullshit | |||
| |||
"We do not and never have had senior military commanders referred to as 1 or 2 'star's'.. and never shall, we maintain our own rank structure which predates a lot of other nations.. end off.." We have! I just proved it above! It doesn't replace our rank structure, it works along side it. In the Army a Brigadier is a 1 star, a Major General is a 2 star, Lt General is a 3 star, General is a 4 star and Field Marshall is a 5 star. So they have a title, and stars, it's not one or the other, in the same way they can have other titles as well as their rank such as Commanding Officer, Officer Commanding, Garrison Commander etc. | |||
| |||
"Your just nit picking now the star ranking is only from nato It isnt and never has been a British ranking A lot of people on here are quite right when they say you are never wrong you never seem to accept anyone else's answer or arguement only your own I can quite easily see you in the playground stamping your foot screaming me me me And this is from a nuetral "You cant say that they are never wrong. | |||
"Your just nit picking now the star ranking is only from nato It isnt and never has been a British ranking A lot of people on here are quite right when they say you are never wrong you never seem to accept anyone else's answer or arguement only your own I can quite easily see you in the playground stamping your foot screaming me me me And this is from a nuetral "I can tell you from personal experience (in addition to the Wikipedia articles) that they rerer to one stars and two stars in both the Army and RAF. But as you say, it's nitpicking really. The point I was making was about more senior military supporting Remain than Brexit. So let's forget the stars and instead assign a points value for the seniority of the officers. 1 point for a Brigadier, 2 points for a Major General, 3 points for a Lt General, 4 points for a General and 5 for a Field Marshall, the same number of points for the equivalent ranks in the other Services. Which ever side has the most points wins the arguement that the military supported Brexit or Remain. | |||
"Your just nit picking now the star ranking is only from nato It isnt and never has been a British ranking A lot of people on here are quite right when they say you are never wrong you never seem to accept anyone else's answer or arguement only your own I can quite easily see you in the playground stamping your foot screaming me me me And this is from a nuetral
I can tell you from personal experience (in addition to the Wikipedia articles) that they rerer to one stars and two stars in both the Army and RAF.
But as you say, it's nitpicking really. The point I was making was about more senior military supporting Remain than Brexit. So let's forget the stars and instead assign a points value for the seniority of the officers. 1 point for a Brigadier, 2 points for a Major General, 3 points for a Lt General, 4 points for a General and 5 for a Field Marshall, the same number of points for the equivalent ranks in the other Services.
Which ever side has the most points wins the arguement that the military supported Brexit or Remain. "What difference does it make the vote was 3 months ago remain lost we are still here the UK did,nt sink and most of us are waiting to see what Ms May going to do next. And just to show there are no hard feeling why don't you join us instead of fighting a lost cause. | |||
"Your just nit picking now the star ranking is only from nato It isnt and never has been a British ranking A lot of people on here are quite right when they say you are never wrong you never seem to accept anyone else's answer or arguement only your own I can quite easily see you in the playground stamping your foot screaming me me me And this is from a nuetral
I can tell you from personal experience (in addition to the Wikipedia articles) that they rerer to one stars and two stars in both the Army and RAF.
But as you say, it's nitpicking really. The point I was making was about more senior military supporting Remain than Brexit. So let's forget the stars and instead assign a points value for the seniority of the officers. 1 point for a Brigadier, 2 points for a Major General, 3 points for a Lt General, 4 points for a General and 5 for a Field Marshall, the same number of points for the equivalent ranks in the other Services.
Which ever side has the most points wins the arguement that the military supported Brexit or Remain. "Why not just have 1 point for every voter in the UK then whoever has the most points, Brexit or Remain, wins the arguement? oh, hang on, forget that, we've done that one | |||
| |||
"We do not and never have had senior military commanders referred to as 1 or 2 'star's'.. and never shall, we maintain our own rank structure which predates a lot of other nations.. end off.." I know that, you know that, the rest of the forum knows that, the whole world knows it as well. Oh sorry not quite the "whole" world. | |||
"Your just nit picking now the star ranking is only from nato It isnt and never has been a British ranking A lot of people on here are quite right when they say you are never wrong you never seem to accept anyone else's answer or arguement only your own I can quite easily see you in the playground stamping your foot screaming me me me And this is from a nuetral
I can tell you from personal experience (in addition to the Wikipedia articles) that they rerer to one stars and two stars in both the Army and RAF.
But as you say, it's nitpicking really. The point I was making was about more senior military supporting Remain than Brexit. So let's forget the stars and instead assign a points value for the seniority of the officers. 1 point for a Brigadier, 2 points for a Major General, 3 points for a Lt General, 4 points for a General and 5 for a Field Marshall, the same number of points for the equivalent ranks in the other Services.
Which ever side has the most points wins the arguement that the military supported Brexit or Remain.
Why not just have 1 point for every voter in the UK then whoever has the most points, Brexit or Remain, wins the arguement?
oh, hang on, forget that, we've done that one"Ah but did those 17.3 million have enough stars on their shoulders? Maybe they need a few to combat all the bloody great chips on the remoaners shoulders. | |||
"Your just nit picking now the star ranking is only from nato It isnt and never has been a British ranking A lot of people on here are quite right when they say you are never wrong you never seem to accept anyone else's answer or arguement only your own I can quite easily see you in the playground stamping your foot screaming me me me And this is from a nuetral
I can tell you from personal experience (in addition to the Wikipedia articles) that they rerer to one stars and two stars in both the Army and RAF.
But as you say, it's nitpicking really. The point I was making was about more senior military supporting Remain than Brexit. So let's forget the stars and instead assign a points value for the seniority of the officers. 1 point for a Brigadier, 2 points for a Major General, 3 points for a Lt General, 4 points for a General and 5 for a Field Marshall, the same number of points for the equivalent ranks in the other Services.
Which ever side has the most points wins the arguement that the military supported Brexit or Remain.
Why not just have 1 point for every voter in the UK then whoever has the most points, Brexit or Remain, wins the arguement?
oh, hang on, forget that, we've done that one
Ah but did those 17.3 million have enough stars on their shoulders?
Maybe they need a few to combat all the bloody great chips on the remoaners shoulders. "
and what they can't seem to understand is that when you have a majority, and one of well over a million people, then chances are that the majority side will contain more 'experts' | |||
"We do not and never have had senior military commanders referred to as 1 or 2 'star's'.. and never shall, we maintain our own rank structure which predates a lot of other nations.. end off.. We have! I just proved it above! It doesn't replace our rank structure, it works along side it. In the Army a Brigadier is a 1 star, a Major General is a 2 star, Lt General is a 3 star, General is a 4 star and Field Marshall is a 5 star. So they have a title, and stars, it's not one or the other, in the same way they can have other titles as well as their rank such as Commanding Officer, Officer Commanding, Garrison Commander etc. " your contradicting yourself.. you can't say 'i've proved it' and then accept it doesn't replace our rank structure.. do you know something? bollocks to wikipedia or whatever your source is.. saying something is of a comparable rank, role or responsibility fine but we do not have it.. | |||
"We do not and never have had senior military commanders referred to as 1 or 2 'star's'.. and never shall, we maintain our own rank structure which predates a lot of other nations.. end off.. We have! I just proved it above! It doesn't replace our rank structure, it works along side it. In the Army a Brigadier is a 1 star, a Major General is a 2 star, Lt General is a 3 star, General is a 4 star and Field Marshall is a 5 star. So they have a title, and stars, it's not one or the other, in the same way they can have other titles as well as their rank such as Commanding Officer, Officer Commanding, Garrison Commander etc. your contradicting yourself.. you can't say 'i've proved it' and then accept it doesn't replace our rank structure.. do you know something? bollocks to wikipedia or whatever your source is.. saying something is of a comparable rank, role or responsibility fine but we do not have it.." Its not contradicting myself at all, the rules of the forum mean that I cant post the link to the British Army website, but it you go to it, then click on British Army Structure, then Ranks, you will see that it says Brigadier (aka One Star) etc. So check it out, and let me know if you still think I'm wrong, wikipedia is wrong and even the Army themselves are wrong about their own rank structure. | |||
"We do not and never have had senior military commanders referred to as 1 or 2 'star's'.. and never shall, we maintain our own rank structure which predates a lot of other nations.. end off.. We have! I just proved it above! It doesn't replace our rank structure, it works along side it. In the Army a Brigadier is a 1 star, a Major General is a 2 star, Lt General is a 3 star, General is a 4 star and Field Marshall is a 5 star. So they have a title, and stars, it's not one or the other, in the same way they can have other titles as well as their rank such as Commanding Officer, Officer Commanding, Garrison Commander etc. your contradicting yourself.. you can't say 'i've proved it' and then accept it doesn't replace our rank structure.. do you know something? bollocks to wikipedia or whatever your source is.. saying something is of a comparable rank, role or responsibility fine but we do not have it.. Its not contradicting myself at all, the rules of the forum mean that I cant post the link to the British Army website, but it you go to it, then click on British Army Structure, then Ranks, you will see that it says Brigadier (aka One Star) etc. So check it out, and let me know if you still think I'm wrong, wikipedia is wrong and even the Army themselves are wrong about their own rank structure." so how many brigadiers and Lt generals wanted to remain and how many leave? | |||
| |||
"So how many on here are going to admit that they were wrong, and accept that senior military officers are indeed called one-stars, two-stars etc?" I will take you up on it. Fair enough the army website says aka 1 star etc. Well done quite possibly the first thing you have been correct on in the last 3 months what I will say is that it is 100% not known as 1 star etc within the ranks. I wouldn't be surprised if it is a fairly new thing introduced to maybe modernise the rank structure. Now what's your point because we have gone from chickens to generals to aka as 1 stars? | |||
"We do not and never have had senior military commanders referred to as 1 or 2 'star's'.. and never shall, we maintain our own rank structure which predates a lot of other nations.. end off.. We have! I just proved it above! It doesn't replace our rank structure, it works along side it. In the Army a Brigadier is a 1 star, a Major General is a 2 star, Lt General is a 3 star, General is a 4 star and Field Marshall is a 5 star. So they have a title, and stars, it's not one or the other, in the same way they can have other titles as well as their rank such as Commanding Officer, Officer Commanding, Garrison Commander etc. your contradicting yourself.. you can't say 'i've proved it' and then accept it doesn't replace our rank structure.. do you know something? bollocks to wikipedia or whatever your source is.. saying something is of a comparable rank, role or responsibility fine but we do not have it.. Its not contradicting myself at all, the rules of the forum mean that I cant post the link to the British Army website, but it you go to it, then click on British Army Structure, then Ranks, you will see that it says Brigadier (aka One Star) etc. So check it out, and let me know if you still think I'm wrong, wikipedia is wrong and even the Army themselves are wrong about their own rank structure." the Army are wrong? I will decline the invite ta, I shall just refer to memory.. | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. Why do the left insist on labelling anyone right of their own views far right? Are all labour lib dems etc in league with stalin? The left like the Telegraph? www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/who-are-the-afd-the-far-right-party-hoping-to-end-merkels-reign/ Or the left like The Economist? www.economist.com/news/europe/21706435-after-beating-angela-merkels-party-mecklenburg-west-pomerania-populists-aim Or the left like the Daily Express?www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/711596/Europe-far-right-rise-open-door-policy-neo-Nazis-migrants If these papers consider them to be far right, but you dont, perhaps that says more about your political leanings than mine? Just a thought. If you consider everything you copy and paste to be bang on the truth maybe that says something about you. Just a thought
Thinking everyone else is wrong, and you are the only person who is right also says a lot about you.
and you are never wrong? Let's have this straight you my little troll have contradicted, embarrassed,ignored facts to suit your agenda. You move goal posts when you lose your argument (daily) then say it's racism!! You are exactly what's wrong with this fcked up country. A bit of honesty on your part and you wouldn't look such a prick on a daily basis. Your view on this debate/brexit is self fulfilling. Let me let you in on a little secret not everybody who voted out voted out for economic reasons or immigration reasons. Some people voted purely on the basis of governing ourselves and our country in the future. If you don't like it fck off to Europe and live there this country would be a much better place without spineless divs like yourself. "You should know by now that the papers are dim-witted and haven't got a clue when it comes to all things Brexit if CLCC doesn't agree with them, but when they say what CLCC wants to hear, they are the experts. CLCC even quoted a paper article the other day implying that the hate and racism reported was because of Brexit, when the article itself was from December 2015! | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. Why do the left insist on labelling anyone right of their own views far right? Are all labour lib dems etc in league with stalin? The left like the Telegraph? www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/who-are-the-afd-the-far-right-party-hoping-to-end-merkels-reign/ Or the left like The Economist? www.economist.com/news/europe/21706435-after-beating-angela-merkels-party-mecklenburg-west-pomerania-populists-aim Or the left like the Daily Express?www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/711596/Europe-far-right-rise-open-door-policy-neo-Nazis-migrants If these papers consider them to be far right, but you dont, perhaps that says more about your political leanings than mine? Just a thought. If you consider everything you copy and paste to be bang on the truth maybe that says something about you. Just a thought
Thinking everyone else is wrong, and you are the only person who is right also says a lot about you.
and you are never wrong? Let's have this straight you my little troll have contradicted, embarrassed,ignored facts to suit your agenda. You move goal posts when you lose your argument (daily) then say it's racism!! You are exactly what's wrong with this fcked up country. A bit of honesty on your part and you wouldn't look such a prick on a daily basis. Your view on this debate/brexit is self fulfilling. Let me let you in on a little secret not everybody who voted out voted out for economic reasons or immigration reasons. Some people voted purely on the basis of governing ourselves and our country in the future. If you don't like it fck off to Europe and live there this country would be a much better place without spineless divs like yourself.
Well the people who agree with me are Nobel prize winners, every head of state in the world, some of the best thinkers the world has ever known like Steven Hawking, world class businessmen like Richard Branson, our military and security leadership etc. etc. etc. So I am quite happy with the company I have on this side of the debate. You have keep hypocrits like Farage, Gove and Boris. I like the way that you claim not to be racist, but obviously just throwing out foreigners isn't enough for you, you want to throw out the Brits that didn't agree with you either! I'm sure if you had your way people like me would be rounded up and put into camps, just like your heroes from Germany did 70 years ago. You seem to be very happy to take rights away from millions of people, so I wouldn't be surprised if you want to take away my freedom for daring to disagree with you. "70 years ago was after the end of the second world war... suggest you research a bit more and get your facts right. They also didn't say they wanted you thrown out, they said if you hate it here so much then you should fuck off to Europe and live there. Personally, I'd at least let you pack your bags first. | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. Why do the left insist on labelling anyone right of their own views far right? Are all labour lib dems etc in league with stalin? The left like the Telegraph? www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/who-are-the-afd-the-far-right-party-hoping-to-end-merkels-reign/ Or the left like The Economist? www.economist.com/news/europe/21706435-after-beating-angela-merkels-party-mecklenburg-west-pomerania-populists-aim Or the left like the Daily Express?www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/711596/Europe-far-right-rise-open-door-policy-neo-Nazis-migrants If these papers consider them to be far right, but you dont, perhaps that says more about your political leanings than mine? Just a thought. If you consider everything you copy and paste to be bang on the truth maybe that says something about you. Just a thought
Thinking everyone else is wrong, and you are the only person who is right also says a lot about you.
and you are never wrong? Let's have this straight you my little troll have contradicted, embarrassed,ignored facts to suit your agenda. You move goal posts when you lose your argument (daily) then say it's racism!! You are exactly what's wrong with this fcked up country. A bit of honesty on your part and you wouldn't look such a prick on a daily basis. Your view on this debate/brexit is self fulfilling. Let me let you in on a little secret not everybody who voted out voted out for economic reasons or immigration reasons. Some people voted purely on the basis of governing ourselves and our country in the future. If you don't like it fck off to Europe and live there this country would be a much better place without spineless divs like yourself.
You should know by now that the papers are dim-witted and haven't got a clue when it comes to all things Brexit if CLCC doesn't agree with them, but when they say what CLCC wants to hear, they are the experts.
CLCC even quoted a paper article the other day implying that the hate and racism reported was because of Brexit, when the article itself was from December 2015! "Wasn't me, try to get your facts right! | |||
"We do not and never have had senior military commanders referred to as 1 or 2 'star's'.. and never shall, we maintain our own rank structure which predates a lot of other nations.. end off.. We have! I just proved it above! It doesn't replace our rank structure, it works along side it. In the Army a Brigadier is a 1 star, a Major General is a 2 star, Lt General is a 3 star, General is a 4 star and Field Marshall is a 5 star. So they have a title, and stars, it's not one or the other, in the same way they can have other titles as well as their rank such as Commanding Officer, Officer Commanding, Garrison Commander etc. your contradicting yourself.. you can't say 'i've proved it' and then accept it doesn't replace our rank structure.. do you know something? bollocks to wikipedia or whatever your source is.. saying something is of a comparable rank, role or responsibility fine but we do not have it.. Its not contradicting myself at all, the rules of the forum mean that I cant post the link to the British Army website, but it you go to it, then click on British Army Structure, then Ranks, you will see that it says Brigadier (aka One Star) etc. So check it out, and let me know if you still think I'm wrong, wikipedia is wrong and even the Army themselves are wrong about their own rank structure. the Army are wrong? I will decline the invite ta, I shall just refer to memory.. "A typical Brexiter, why let facts get in the way huh? I guess my memory must be a little bit better than yours | |||
"So how many on here are going to admit that they were wrong, and accept that senior military officers are indeed called one-stars, two-stars etc? I will take you up on it. Fair enough the army website says aka 1 star etc. Well done quite possibly the first thing you have been correct on in the last 3 months what I will say is that it is 100% not known as 1 star etc within the ranks. I wouldn't be surprised if it is a fairly new thing introduced to maybe modernise the rank structure. Now what's your point because we have gone from chickens to generals to aka as 1 stars? "Well at least someone has got some balls. | |||
"So how many on here are going to admit that they were wrong, and accept that senior military officers are indeed called one-stars, two-stars etc?" Not me. NATO may have muddied the water but the British army has never ever used that term, and I stand by my original post 100%. | |||
"So how many on here are going to admit that they were wrong, and accept that senior military officers are indeed called one-stars, two-stars etc? Not me. NATO may have muddied the water but the British army has never ever used that term, and I stand by my original post 100%." So even though its on the British Army website, you still refuse to accept that it is official Army parlance?  | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. Why do the left insist on labelling anyone right of their own views far right? Are all labour lib dems etc in league with stalin? The left like the Telegraph? www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/who-are-the-afd-the-far-right-party-hoping-to-end-merkels-reign/ Or the left like The Economist? www.economist.com/news/europe/21706435-after-beating-angela-merkels-party-mecklenburg-west-pomerania-populists-aim Or the left like the Daily Express?www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/711596/Europe-far-right-rise-open-door-policy-neo-Nazis-migrants If these papers consider them to be far right, but you dont, perhaps that says more about your political leanings than mine? Just a thought. If you consider everything you copy and paste to be bang on the truth maybe that says something about you. Just a thought
Thinking everyone else is wrong, and you are the only person who is right also says a lot about you.
and you are never wrong? Let's have this straight you my little troll have contradicted, embarrassed,ignored facts to suit your agenda. You move goal posts when you lose your argument (daily) then say it's racism!! You are exactly what's wrong with this fcked up country. A bit of honesty on your part and you wouldn't look such a prick on a daily basis. Your view on this debate/brexit is self fulfilling. Let me let you in on a little secret not everybody who voted out voted out for economic reasons or immigration reasons. Some people voted purely on the basis of governing ourselves and our country in the future. If you don't like it fck off to Europe and live there this country would be a much better place without spineless divs like yourself.
You should know by now that the papers are dim-witted and haven't got a clue when it comes to all things Brexit if CLCC doesn't agree with them, but when they say what CLCC wants to hear, they are the experts.
CLCC even quoted a paper article the other day implying that the hate and racism reported was because of Brexit, when the article itself was from December 2015!
Wasn't me, try to get your facts right! "Just checked, 2 days ago, it was you. Like I've said before... Clueless, with a distinct Lack of Coherent Comprehension. | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. Why do the left insist on labelling anyone right of their own views far right? Are all labour lib dems etc in league with stalin? The left like the Telegraph? www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/who-are-the-afd-the-far-right-party-hoping-to-end-merkels-reign/ Or the left like The Economist? www.economist.com/news/europe/21706435-after-beating-angela-merkels-party-mecklenburg-west-pomerania-populists-aim Or the left like the Daily Express?www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/711596/Europe-far-right-rise-open-door-policy-neo-Nazis-migrants If these papers consider them to be far right, but you dont, perhaps that says more about your political leanings than mine? Just a thought. If you consider everything you copy and paste to be bang on the truth maybe that says something about you. Just a thought
Thinking everyone else is wrong, and you are the only person who is right also says a lot about you.
and you are never wrong? Let's have this straight you my little troll have contradicted, embarrassed,ignored facts to suit your agenda. You move goal posts when you lose your argument (daily) then say it's racism!! You are exactly what's wrong with this fcked up country. A bit of honesty on your part and you wouldn't look such a prick on a daily basis. Your view on this debate/brexit is self fulfilling. Let me let you in on a little secret not everybody who voted out voted out for economic reasons or immigration reasons. Some people voted purely on the basis of governing ourselves and our country in the future. If you don't like it fck off to Europe and live there this country would be a much better place without spineless divs like yourself.
You should know by now that the papers are dim-witted and haven't got a clue when it comes to all things Brexit if CLCC doesn't agree with them, but when they say what CLCC wants to hear, they are the experts.
CLCC even quoted a paper article the other day implying that the hate and racism reported was because of Brexit, when the article itself was from December 2015!
Wasn't me, try to get your facts right!
Just checked, 2 days ago, it was you.
Like I've said before...
Clueless, with a distinct
Lack of
Coherent
Comprehension."I don't think so, but I'm happy to be proved wrong, if I did I'll hold my hands up and say I was wrong. Which thread was it? Out of interest, why do you bother to write that at the end of your posts? | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. Why do the left insist on labelling anyone right of their own views far right? Are all labour lib dems etc in league with stalin? The left like the Telegraph? www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/who-are-the-afd-the-far-right-party-hoping-to-end-merkels-reign/ Or the left like The Economist? www.economist.com/news/europe/21706435-after-beating-angela-merkels-party-mecklenburg-west-pomerania-populists-aim Or the left like the Daily Express?www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/711596/Europe-far-right-rise-open-door-policy-neo-Nazis-migrants If these papers consider them to be far right, but you dont, perhaps that says more about your political leanings than mine? Just a thought. If you consider everything you copy and paste to be bang on the truth maybe that says something about you. Just a thought
Thinking everyone else is wrong, and you are the only person who is right also says a lot about you.
and you are never wrong? Let's have this straight you my little troll have contradicted, embarrassed,ignored facts to suit your agenda. You move goal posts when you lose your argument (daily) then say it's racism!! You are exactly what's wrong with this fcked up country. A bit of honesty on your part and you wouldn't look such a prick on a daily basis. Your view on this debate/brexit is self fulfilling. Let me let you in on a little secret not everybody who voted out voted out for economic reasons or immigration reasons. Some people voted purely on the basis of governing ourselves and our country in the future. If you don't like it fck off to Europe and live there this country would be a much better place without spineless divs like yourself.
You should know by now that the papers are dim-witted and haven't got a clue when it comes to all things Brexit if CLCC doesn't agree with them, but when they say what CLCC wants to hear, they are the experts.
CLCC even quoted a paper article the other day implying that the hate and racism reported was because of Brexit, when the article itself was from December 2015!
Wasn't me, try to get your facts right!
Just checked, 2 days ago, it was you.
Like I've said before...
Clueless, with a distinct
Lack of
Coherent
Comprehension.
I don't think so, but I'm happy to be proved wrong, if I did I'll hold my hands up and say I was wrong. Which thread was it?
Out of interest, why do you bother to write that at the end of your posts? "It would appear to be a very personal insult against you. Something that is not allowed on this Site. | |||
"I find it quite worrying that some on here seem to be cheering the rise of the far right in Germany, but I guess not everyone studies history. Why do the left insist on labelling anyone right of their own views far right? Are all labour lib dems etc in league with stalin? The left like the Telegraph? www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/who-are-the-afd-the-far-right-party-hoping-to-end-merkels-reign/ Or the left like The Economist? www.economist.com/news/europe/21706435-after-beating-angela-merkels-party-mecklenburg-west-pomerania-populists-aim Or the left like the Daily Express?www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/711596/Europe-far-right-rise-open-door-policy-neo-Nazis-migrants If these papers consider them to be far right, but you dont, perhaps that says more about your political leanings than mine? Just a thought. If you consider everything you copy and paste to be bang on the truth maybe that says something about you. Just a thought
Thinking everyone else is wrong, and you are the only person who is right also says a lot about you.
and you are never wrong? Let's have this straight you my little troll have contradicted, embarrassed,ignored facts to suit your agenda. You move goal posts when you lose your argument (daily) then say it's racism!! You are exactly what's wrong with this fcked up country. A bit of honesty on your part and you wouldn't look such a prick on a daily basis. Your view on this debate/brexit is self fulfilling. Let me let you in on a little secret not everybody who voted out voted out for economic reasons or immigration reasons. Some people voted purely on the basis of governing ourselves and our country in the future. If you don't like it fck off to Europe and live there this country would be a much better place without spineless divs like yourself.
You should know by now that the papers are dim-witted and haven't got a clue when it comes to all things Brexit if CLCC doesn't agree with them, but when they say what CLCC wants to hear, they are the experts.
CLCC even quoted a paper article the other day implying that the hate and racism reported was because of Brexit, when the article itself was from December 2015!
Wasn't me, try to get your facts right!
Just checked, 2 days ago, it was you.
Like I've said before...
Clueless, with a distinct
Lack of
Coherent
Comprehension.
I don't think so, but I'm happy to be proved wrong, if I did I'll hold my hands up and say I was wrong. Which thread was it?
Out of interest, why do you bother to write that at the end of your posts?
It would appear to be a very personal insult against you. Something that is not allowed on this Site. "I know, it's a bit sad really, I guess they can't win the arguement so they attack the person instead.  | |||
" As it clearly states they are NATO ranks. Not the British army, navy or air force." For accuracy . Actually; the star designation started as a US designation ( because US generals rank badges use stars) It was adopted by NATO , along with the OF system in order that the national names for ranks could show equivalence, in roles that were filled by officers and soldiers of any nation. It is now an internationally recognized naming system. So I was able to refer to the OF and star system with any of my international military colleagues with ease . Every nation on earth now uses it. Nationally officers are given their national titles ( eg Major, Lt Colonel , General) or titles in their language( " Commandant", "Hauptmann" " Oberst". I.e. Hauptmann Schmidt or Captain Jones But their actual rank designations are now universally listed in the OF /Star system . Whether they are Brits, Americans, Israelis, Russians or Chinese..... | |||
| |||
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer? | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer? "I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer? "What does any world leaders opinions matter? The only one whose opinion matters is our own and she is going to take us out and the only stat that matters is 52% leave 48% remain.deal with it. | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine"I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again. | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again."anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way? | |||
" Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?" | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again.
anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?"Now, you have the RIGHT, to work in Spain, or any other EU country, you don't need a visa, or a work permit etc. When we leave the EU, you will have to try and get one. This will probably have an associated cost, it will have bureaucracy and paperwork, and in the end you could still be refused, because you will no longer have the RIGHT to work there. | |||
| |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again.
anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?
Now, you have the RIGHT, to work in Spain, or any other EU country, you don't need a visa, or a work permit etc. When we leave the EU, you will have to try and get one. This will probably have an associated cost, it will have bureaucracy and paperwork, and in the end you could still be refused, because you will no longer have the RIGHT to work there.
"so you think that at the moment there is no bureaucracy, paperwork or cost and that you cannot be refused? Try it The visa/work permit system is pretty much in place already in most EU countries, just under another name. Not a lot will change | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again.
anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?
Now, you have the RIGHT, to work in Spain, or any other EU country, you don't need a visa, or a work permit etc. When we leave the EU, you will have to try and get one. This will probably have an associated cost, it will have bureaucracy and paperwork, and in the end you could still be refused, because you will no longer have the RIGHT to work there.
so you think that at the moment there is no bureaucracy, paperwork or cost and that you cannot be refused? Try it
The visa/work permit system is pretty much in place already in most EU countries, just under another name. Not a lot will change"At the moment a UK citizen cannot be treated any differently to a Spanish citizen in Spain, so anything you have to do, they have to do too. I have never worked in Spain, so are you saying before a Spanish citizen can take up a job, they have to apply for permission from the government, and the government can refuse it, leaving that person unemployed, even though they have an offer of employment? | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again.
anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?
Now, you have the RIGHT, to work in Spain, or any other EU country, you don't need a visa, or a work permit etc. When we leave the EU, you will have to try and get one. This will probably have an associated cost, it will have bureaucracy and paperwork, and in the end you could still be refused, because you will no longer have the RIGHT to work there.
so you think that at the moment there is no bureaucracy, paperwork or cost and that you cannot be refused? Try it
The visa/work permit system is pretty much in place already in most EU countries, just under another name. Not a lot will change
At the moment a UK citizen cannot be treated any differently to a Spanish citizen in Spain, so anything you have to do, they have to do too.
I have never worked in Spain, so are you saying before a Spanish citizen can take up a job, they have to apply for permission from the government, and the government can refuse it, leaving that person unemployed, even though they have an offer of employment? "so a Spanish person has to turn up and register with passport and job details etc at the Oficina de Extranjeros or local police station and pay a fee before they can start work do they? | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again.
anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?
Now, you have the RIGHT, to work in Spain, or any other EU country, you don't need a visa, or a work permit etc. When we leave the EU, you will have to try and get one. This will probably have an associated cost, it will have bureaucracy and paperwork, and in the end you could still be refused, because you will no longer have the RIGHT to work there.
so you think that at the moment there is no bureaucracy, paperwork or cost and that you cannot be refused? Try it
The visa/work permit system is pretty much in place already in most EU countries, just under another name. Not a lot will change
At the moment a UK citizen cannot be treated any differently to a Spanish citizen in Spain, so anything you have to do, they have to do too.
I have never worked in Spain, so are you saying before a Spanish citizen can take up a job, they have to apply for permission from the government, and the government can refuse it, leaving that person unemployed, even though they have an offer of employment?
so a Spanish person has to turn up and register with passport and job details etc at the Oficina de Extranjeros or local police station and pay a fee before they can start work do they?"You didn't answer my question. Here is what the EU says: Workers’ rights of movement and residence Directive 2004/38/EC introduces EU citizenship as the basic status for nationals of the Member States when they exercise their right to move and reside freely on EU territory. For the first three months, every EU citizen has the right to reside on the territory of another EU country without any conditions or formalities. For longer periods, the host Member State may require a citizen to register his or her presence within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time. Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence. Directive 2004/38/EC amended Regulation 1612/68/EEC with regard to family reunification and extended the definition of ‘family member’ (formerly limited to spouse, descendants aged under 21 or dependent children, and dependent ascendants) to include registered partners if the host Member State’s legislation considers a registered partnership to be the equivalent of a marriage. Irrespective of their nationality, these family members have the right to reside in the same country as the worker. 2.Employment As regards working and employment conditions in the territory of the host Member State, workers who are nationals of another Member State cannot be treated differently from national workers because of their nationality. This applies in particular to matters pertaining to recruitment, dismissal and remuneration, and to occupational training and retraining measures. Nationals of one Member State working in another have the same social and tax benefits and access to housing as national workers, and are entitled to equal treatment in respect of the exercise of trade union rights. The right to remain in the host country after stopping work is now laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled. After acquiring the right of permanent residence in the host Member State, EU citizens are no longer subject to any conditions (such as sufficient financial means) but can, if necessary, rely on social assistance in the host Member State in the same way as its nationals can. If you think you are not being treated in accordance with your treaty rights, then take them to court. | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again.
anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?
Now, you have the RIGHT, to work in Spain, or any other EU country, you don't need a visa, or a work permit etc. When we leave the EU, you will have to try and get one. This will probably have an associated cost, it will have bureaucracy and paperwork, and in the end you could still be refused, because you will no longer have the RIGHT to work there.
so you think that at the moment there is no bureaucracy, paperwork or cost and that you cannot be refused? Try it
The visa/work permit system is pretty much in place already in most EU countries, just under another name. Not a lot will change
At the moment a UK citizen cannot be treated any differently to a Spanish citizen in Spain, so anything you have to do, they have to do too.
I have never worked in Spain, so are you saying before a Spanish citizen can take up a job, they have to apply for permission from the government, and the government can refuse it, leaving that person unemployed, even though they have an offer of employment?
so a Spanish person has to turn up and register with passport and job details etc at the Oficina de Extranjeros or local police station and pay a fee before they can start work do they?
You didn't answer my question.
Here is what the EU says:
Workers’ rights of movement and residence
Directive 2004/38/EC introduces EU citizenship as the basic status for nationals of the Member States when they exercise their right to move and reside freely on EU territory. For the first three months, every EU citizen has the right to reside on the territory of another EU country without any conditions or formalities. For longer periods, the host Member State may require a citizen to register his or her presence within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.
Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence.
Directive 2004/38/EC amended Regulation 1612/68/EEC with regard to family reunification and extended the definition of ‘family member’ (formerly limited to spouse, descendants aged under 21 or dependent children, and dependent ascendants) to include registered partners if the host Member State’s legislation considers a registered partnership to be the equivalent of a marriage. Irrespective of their nationality, these family members have the right to reside in the same country as the worker.
2.Employment
As regards working and employment conditions in the territory of the host Member State, workers who are nationals of another Member State cannot be treated differently from national workers because of their nationality. This applies in particular to matters pertaining to recruitment, dismissal and remuneration, and to occupational training and retraining measures. Nationals of one Member State working in another have the same social and tax benefits and access to housing as national workers, and are entitled to equal treatment in respect of the exercise of trade union rights.
The right to remain in the host country after stopping work is now laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled. After acquiring the right of permanent residence in the host Member State, EU citizens are no longer subject to any conditions (such as sufficient financial means) but can, if necessary, rely on social assistance in the host Member State in the same way as its nationals can.
If you think you are not being treated in accordance with your treaty rights, then take them to court."did you read any of that? Just read the first 2 paragraphs again and comprehend it! | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again.
anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?
Now, you have the RIGHT, to work in Spain, or any other EU country, you don't need a visa, or a work permit etc. When we leave the EU, you will have to try and get one. This will probably have an associated cost, it will have bureaucracy and paperwork, and in the end you could still be refused, because you will no longer have the RIGHT to work there.
so you think that at the moment there is no bureaucracy, paperwork or cost and that you cannot be refused? Try it
The visa/work permit system is pretty much in place already in most EU countries, just under another name. Not a lot will change
At the moment a UK citizen cannot be treated any differently to a Spanish citizen in Spain, so anything you have to do, they have to do too.
I have never worked in Spain, so are you saying before a Spanish citizen can take up a job, they have to apply for permission from the government, and the government can refuse it, leaving that person unemployed, even though they have an offer of employment?
so a Spanish person has to turn up and register with passport and job details etc at the Oficina de Extranjeros or local police station and pay a fee before they can start work do they?
You didn't answer my question.
Here is what the EU says:
Workers’ rights of movement and residence
Directive 2004/38/EC introduces EU citizenship as the basic status for nationals of the Member States when they exercise their right to move and reside freely on EU territory. For the first three months, every EU citizen has the right to reside on the territory of another EU country without any conditions or formalities. For longer periods, the host Member State may require a citizen to register his or her presence within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.
Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence.
Directive 2004/38/EC amended Regulation 1612/68/EEC with regard to family reunification and extended the definition of ‘family member’ (formerly limited to spouse, descendants aged under 21 or dependent children, and dependent ascendants) to include registered partners if the host Member State’s legislation considers a registered partnership to be the equivalent of a marriage. Irrespective of their nationality, these family members have the right to reside in the same country as the worker.
2.Employment
As regards working and employment conditions in the territory of the host Member State, workers who are nationals of another Member State cannot be treated differently from national workers because of their nationality. This applies in particular to matters pertaining to recruitment, dismissal and remuneration, and to occupational training and retraining measures. Nationals of one Member State working in another have the same social and tax benefits and access to housing as national workers, and are entitled to equal treatment in respect of the exercise of trade union rights.
The right to remain in the host country after stopping work is now laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled. After acquiring the right of permanent residence in the host Member State, EU citizens are no longer subject to any conditions (such as sufficient financial means) but can, if necessary, rely on social assistance in the host Member State in the same way as its nationals can.
If you think you are not being treated in accordance with your treaty rights, then take them to court.
did you read any of that? Just read the first 2 paragraphs again and comprehend it!"Yes, I have read it, and understood it. You have yet again, failed to answer the question I posed to you. | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again.
anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?
Now, you have the RIGHT, to work in Spain, or any other EU country, you don't need a visa, or a work permit etc. When we leave the EU, you will have to try and get one. This will probably have an associated cost, it will have bureaucracy and paperwork, and in the end you could still be refused, because you will no longer have the RIGHT to work there.
so you think that at the moment there is no bureaucracy, paperwork or cost and that you cannot be refused? Try it
The visa/work permit system is pretty much in place already in most EU countries, just under another name. Not a lot will change
At the moment a UK citizen cannot be treated any differently to a Spanish citizen in Spain, so anything you have to do, they have to do too.
I have never worked in Spain, so are you saying before a Spanish citizen can take up a job, they have to apply for permission from the government, and the government can refuse it, leaving that person unemployed, even though they have an offer of employment?
so a Spanish person has to turn up and register with passport and job details etc at the Oficina de Extranjeros or local police station and pay a fee before they can start work do they?
You didn't answer my question.
Here is what the EU says:
Workers’ rights of movement and residence
Directive 2004/38/EC introduces EU citizenship as the basic status for nationals of the Member States when they exercise their right to move and reside freely on EU territory. For the first three months, every EU citizen has the right to reside on the territory of another EU country without any conditions or formalities. For longer periods, the host Member State may require a citizen to register his or her presence within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.
Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence.
Directive 2004/38/EC amended Regulation 1612/68/EEC with regard to family reunification and extended the definition of ‘family member’ (formerly limited to spouse, descendants aged under 21 or dependent children, and dependent ascendants) to include registered partners if the host Member State’s legislation considers a registered partnership to be the equivalent of a marriage. Irrespective of their nationality, these family members have the right to reside in the same country as the worker.
2.Employment
As regards working and employment conditions in the territory of the host Member State, workers who are nationals of another Member State cannot be treated differently from national workers because of their nationality. This applies in particular to matters pertaining to recruitment, dismissal and remuneration, and to occupational training and retraining measures. Nationals of one Member State working in another have the same social and tax benefits and access to housing as national workers, and are entitled to equal treatment in respect of the exercise of trade union rights.
The right to remain in the host country after stopping work is now laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled. After acquiring the right of permanent residence in the host Member State, EU citizens are no longer subject to any conditions (such as sufficient financial means) but can, if necessary, rely on social assistance in the host Member State in the same way as its nationals can.
If you think you are not being treated in accordance with your treaty rights, then take them to court.
did you read any of that? Just read the first 2 paragraphs again and comprehend it!
Yes, I have read it, and understood it. You have yet again, failed to answer the question I posed to you."You obviously haven't understood it because it backs up my arguement. Your question? No a Spanish person won't be refused a job by the government if they have a job offer. Why would a non EU national be turned down if they have a job offer and meet the criteria? Now answer my question, does a Spanish person have to register at the Oficina de Extranjeros or a local police station with their passport and job offer etc and pay a fee before they start work? | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again.
anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?
Now, you have the RIGHT, to work in Spain, or any other EU country, you don't need a visa, or a work permit etc. When we leave the EU, you will have to try and get one. This will probably have an associated cost, it will have bureaucracy and paperwork, and in the end you could still be refused, because you will no longer have the RIGHT to work there.
so you think that at the moment there is no bureaucracy, paperwork or cost and that you cannot be refused? Try it
The visa/work permit system is pretty much in place already in most EU countries, just under another name. Not a lot will change
At the moment a UK citizen cannot be treated any differently to a Spanish citizen in Spain, so anything you have to do, they have to do too.
I have never worked in Spain, so are you saying before a Spanish citizen can take up a job, they have to apply for permission from the government, and the government can refuse it, leaving that person unemployed, even though they have an offer of employment?
so a Spanish person has to turn up and register with passport and job details etc at the Oficina de Extranjeros or local police station and pay a fee before they can start work do they?
You didn't answer my question.
Here is what the EU says:
Workers’ rights of movement and residence
Directive 2004/38/EC introduces EU citizenship as the basic status for nationals of the Member States when they exercise their right to move and reside freely on EU territory. For the first three months, every EU citizen has the right to reside on the territory of another EU country without any conditions or formalities. For longer periods, the host Member State may require a citizen to register his or her presence within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.
Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence.
Directive 2004/38/EC amended Regulation 1612/68/EEC with regard to family reunification and extended the definition of ‘family member’ (formerly limited to spouse, descendants aged under 21 or dependent children, and dependent ascendants) to include registered partners if the host Member State’s legislation considers a registered partnership to be the equivalent of a marriage. Irrespective of their nationality, these family members have the right to reside in the same country as the worker.
2.Employment
As regards working and employment conditions in the territory of the host Member State, workers who are nationals of another Member State cannot be treated differently from national workers because of their nationality. This applies in particular to matters pertaining to recruitment, dismissal and remuneration, and to occupational training and retraining measures. Nationals of one Member State working in another have the same social and tax benefits and access to housing as national workers, and are entitled to equal treatment in respect of the exercise of trade union rights.
The right to remain in the host country after stopping work is now laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled. After acquiring the right of permanent residence in the host Member State, EU citizens are no longer subject to any conditions (such as sufficient financial means) but can, if necessary, rely on social assistance in the host Member State in the same way as its nationals can.
If you think you are not being treated in accordance with your treaty rights, then take them to court.
did you read any of that? Just read the first 2 paragraphs again and comprehend it!
Yes, I have read it, and understood it. You have yet again, failed to answer the question I posed to you."I think you should read it again then it clearly states you have 3 months grace after that you are required to register. | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again.
anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?
Now, you have the RIGHT, to work in Spain, or any other EU country, you don't need a visa, or a work permit etc. When we leave the EU, you will have to try and get one. This will probably have an associated cost, it will have bureaucracy and paperwork, and in the end you could still be refused, because you will no longer have the RIGHT to work there.
so you think that at the moment there is no bureaucracy, paperwork or cost and that you cannot be refused? Try it
The visa/work permit system is pretty much in place already in most EU countries, just under another name. Not a lot will change
At the moment a UK citizen cannot be treated any differently to a Spanish citizen in Spain, so anything you have to do, they have to do too.
I have never worked in Spain, so are you saying before a Spanish citizen can take up a job, they have to apply for permission from the government, and the government can refuse it, leaving that person unemployed, even though they have an offer of employment?
so a Spanish person has to turn up and register with passport and job details etc at the Oficina de Extranjeros or local police station and pay a fee before they can start work do they?
You didn't answer my question.
Here is what the EU says:
Workers’ rights of movement and residence
Directive 2004/38/EC introduces EU citizenship as the basic status for nationals of the Member States when they exercise their right to move and reside freely on EU territory. For the first three months, every EU citizen has the right to reside on the territory of another EU country without any conditions or formalities. For longer periods, the host Member State may require a citizen to register his or her presence within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.
Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence.
Directive 2004/38/EC amended Regulation 1612/68/EEC with regard to family reunification and extended the definition of ‘family member’ (formerly limited to spouse, descendants aged under 21 or dependent children, and dependent ascendants) to include registered partners if the host Member State’s legislation considers a registered partnership to be the equivalent of a marriage. Irrespective of their nationality, these family members have the right to reside in the same country as the worker.
2.Employment
As regards working and employment conditions in the territory of the host Member State, workers who are nationals of another Member State cannot be treated differently from national workers because of their nationality. This applies in particular to matters pertaining to recruitment, dismissal and remuneration, and to occupational training and retraining measures. Nationals of one Member State working in another have the same social and tax benefits and access to housing as national workers, and are entitled to equal treatment in respect of the exercise of trade union rights.
The right to remain in the host country after stopping work is now laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled. After acquiring the right of permanent residence in the host Member State, EU citizens are no longer subject to any conditions (such as sufficient financial means) but can, if necessary, rely on social assistance in the host Member State in the same way as its nationals can.
If you think you are not being treated in accordance with your treaty rights, then take them to court.
did you read any of that? Just read the first 2 paragraphs again and comprehend it!
Yes, I have read it, and understood it. You have yet again, failed to answer the question I posed to you.
I think you should read it again then it clearly states you have 3 months grace after that you are required to register. "So you're saying that you don't need to register before taking up employment, just after three months? So CandM are wrong then? Thanks for proving my point for me! | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again.
anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?
Now, you have the RIGHT, to work in Spain, or any other EU country, you don't need a visa, or a work permit etc. When we leave the EU, you will have to try and get one. This will probably have an associated cost, it will have bureaucracy and paperwork, and in the end you could still be refused, because you will no longer have the RIGHT to work there.
so you think that at the moment there is no bureaucracy, paperwork or cost and that you cannot be refused? Try it
The visa/work permit system is pretty much in place already in most EU countries, just under another name. Not a lot will change
At the moment a UK citizen cannot be treated any differently to a Spanish citizen in Spain, so anything you have to do, they have to do too.
I have never worked in Spain, so are you saying before a Spanish citizen can take up a job, they have to apply for permission from the government, and the government can refuse it, leaving that person unemployed, even though they have an offer of employment?
so a Spanish person has to turn up and register with passport and job details etc at the Oficina de Extranjeros or local police station and pay a fee before they can start work do they?
You didn't answer my question.
Here is what the EU says:
Workers’ rights of movement and residence
Directive 2004/38/EC introduces EU citizenship as the basic status for nationals of the Member States when they exercise their right to move and reside freely on EU territory. For the first three months, every EU citizen has the right to reside on the territory of another EU country without any conditions or formalities. For longer periods, the host Member State may require a citizen to register his or her presence within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.
Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence.
Directive 2004/38/EC amended Regulation 1612/68/EEC with regard to family reunification and extended the definition of ‘family member’ (formerly limited to spouse, descendants aged under 21 or dependent children, and dependent ascendants) to include registered partners if the host Member State’s legislation considers a registered partnership to be the equivalent of a marriage. Irrespective of their nationality, these family members have the right to reside in the same country as the worker.
2.Employment
As regards working and employment conditions in the territory of the host Member State, workers who are nationals of another Member State cannot be treated differently from national workers because of their nationality. This applies in particular to matters pertaining to recruitment, dismissal and remuneration, and to occupational training and retraining measures. Nationals of one Member State working in another have the same social and tax benefits and access to housing as national workers, and are entitled to equal treatment in respect of the exercise of trade union rights.
The right to remain in the host country after stopping work is now laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled. After acquiring the right of permanent residence in the host Member State, EU citizens are no longer subject to any conditions (such as sufficient financial means) but can, if necessary, rely on social assistance in the host Member State in the same way as its nationals can.
If you think you are not being treated in accordance with your treaty rights, then take them to court.
did you read any of that? Just read the first 2 paragraphs again and comprehend it!
Yes, I have read it, and understood it. You have yet again, failed to answer the question I posed to you.
You obviously haven't understood it because it backs up my arguement.
Your question? No a Spanish person won't be refused a job by the government if they have a job offer. Why would a non EU national be turned down if they have a job offer and meet the criteria?
Now answer my question, does a Spanish person have to register at the Oficina de Extranjeros or a local police station with their passport and job offer etc and pay a fee before they start work? "You said a work permit/visa system is already in place. Yet again I have proved you wrong. There is no work permit/visa system in place for EU citizens. | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again.
anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?
Now, you have the RIGHT, to work in Spain, or any other EU country, you don't need a visa, or a work permit etc. When we leave the EU, you will have to try and get one. This will probably have an associated cost, it will have bureaucracy and paperwork, and in the end you could still be refused, because you will no longer have the RIGHT to work there.
so you think that at the moment there is no bureaucracy, paperwork or cost and that you cannot be refused? Try it
The visa/work permit system is pretty much in place already in most EU countries, just under another name. Not a lot will change
At the moment a UK citizen cannot be treated any differently to a Spanish citizen in Spain, so anything you have to do, they have to do too.
I have never worked in Spain, so are you saying before a Spanish citizen can take up a job, they have to apply for permission from the government, and the government can refuse it, leaving that person unemployed, even though they have an offer of employment?
so a Spanish person has to turn up and register with passport and job details etc at the Oficina de Extranjeros or local police station and pay a fee before they can start work do they?
You didn't answer my question.
Here is what the EU says:
Workers’ rights of movement and residence
Directive 2004/38/EC introduces EU citizenship as the basic status for nationals of the Member States when they exercise their right to move and reside freely on EU territory. For the first three months, every EU citizen has the right to reside on the territory of another EU country without any conditions or formalities. For longer periods, the host Member State may require a citizen to register his or her presence within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.
Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence.
Directive 2004/38/EC amended Regulation 1612/68/EEC with regard to family reunification and extended the definition of ‘family member’ (formerly limited to spouse, descendants aged under 21 or dependent children, and dependent ascendants) to include registered partners if the host Member State’s legislation considers a registered partnership to be the equivalent of a marriage. Irrespective of their nationality, these family members have the right to reside in the same country as the worker.
2.Employment
As regards working and employment conditions in the territory of the host Member State, workers who are nationals of another Member State cannot be treated differently from national workers because of their nationality. This applies in particular to matters pertaining to recruitment, dismissal and remuneration, and to occupational training and retraining measures. Nationals of one Member State working in another have the same social and tax benefits and access to housing as national workers, and are entitled to equal treatment in respect of the exercise of trade union rights.
The right to remain in the host country after stopping work is now laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled. After acquiring the right of permanent residence in the host Member State, EU citizens are no longer subject to any conditions (such as sufficient financial means) but can, if necessary, rely on social assistance in the host Member State in the same way as its nationals can.
If you think you are not being treated in accordance with your treaty rights, then take them to court.
did you read any of that? Just read the first 2 paragraphs again and comprehend it!
Yes, I have read it, and understood it. You have yet again, failed to answer the question I posed to you.
You obviously haven't understood it because it backs up my arguement.
Your question? No a Spanish person won't be refused a job by the government if they have a job offer. Why would a non EU national be turned down if they have a job offer and meet the criteria?
Now answer my question, does a Spanish person have to register at the Oficina de Extranjeros or a local police station with their passport and job offer etc and pay a fee before they start work?
You said a work permit/visa system is already in place. Yet again I have proved you wrong. There is no work permit/visa system in place for EU citizens."There is a work permit and visa systen for non-eu. Which I believe everyone will use. No use having a third system. Plus Visas may not be required. There are certain countries outside the EU that can enter the UK without a visa. There may be extra cost processing work permits etc. | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again.
anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?
Now, you have the RIGHT, to work in Spain, or any other EU country, you don't need a visa, or a work permit etc. When we leave the EU, you will have to try and get one. This will probably have an associated cost, it will have bureaucracy and paperwork, and in the end you could still be refused, because you will no longer have the RIGHT to work there.
so you think that at the moment there is no bureaucracy, paperwork or cost and that you cannot be refused? Try it
The visa/work permit system is pretty much in place already in most EU countries, just under another name. Not a lot will change
At the moment a UK citizen cannot be treated any differently to a Spanish citizen in Spain, so anything you have to do, they have to do too.
I have never worked in Spain, so are you saying before a Spanish citizen can take up a job, they have to apply for permission from the government, and the government can refuse it, leaving that person unemployed, even though they have an offer of employment?
so a Spanish person has to turn up and register with passport and job details etc at the Oficina de Extranjeros or local police station and pay a fee before they can start work do they?
You didn't answer my question.
Here is what the EU says:
Workers’ rights of movement and residence
Directive 2004/38/EC introduces EU citizenship as the basic status for nationals of the Member States when they exercise their right to move and reside freely on EU territory. For the first three months, every EU citizen has the right to reside on the territory of another EU country without any conditions or formalities. For longer periods, the host Member State may require a citizen to register his or her presence within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.
Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence.
Directive 2004/38/EC amended Regulation 1612/68/EEC with regard to family reunification and extended the definition of ‘family member’ (formerly limited to spouse, descendants aged under 21 or dependent children, and dependent ascendants) to include registered partners if the host Member State’s legislation considers a registered partnership to be the equivalent of a marriage. Irrespective of their nationality, these family members have the right to reside in the same country as the worker.
2.Employment
As regards working and employment conditions in the territory of the host Member State, workers who are nationals of another Member State cannot be treated differently from national workers because of their nationality. This applies in particular to matters pertaining to recruitment, dismissal and remuneration, and to occupational training and retraining measures. Nationals of one Member State working in another have the same social and tax benefits and access to housing as national workers, and are entitled to equal treatment in respect of the exercise of trade union rights.
The right to remain in the host country after stopping work is now laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled. After acquiring the right of permanent residence in the host Member State, EU citizens are no longer subject to any conditions (such as sufficient financial means) but can, if necessary, rely on social assistance in the host Member State in the same way as its nationals can.
If you think you are not being treated in accordance with your treaty rights, then take them to court.
did you read any of that? Just read the first 2 paragraphs again and comprehend it!
Yes, I have read it, and understood it. You have yet again, failed to answer the question I posed to you.
You obviously haven't understood it because it backs up my arguement.
Your question? No a Spanish person won't be refused a job by the government if they have a job offer. Why would a non EU national be turned down if they have a job offer and meet the criteria?
Now answer my question, does a Spanish person have to register at the Oficina de Extranjeros or a local police station with their passport and job offer etc and pay a fee before they start work?
You said a work permit/visa system is already in place. Yet again I have proved you wrong. There is no work permit/visa system in place for EU citizens."no I did not, I said as good as. What the fuck do you think you have to go to the foreign office or police station and pay a fee for? Fun? What difference is that to getting a visa? | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again.
anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?
Now, you have the RIGHT, to work in Spain, or any other EU country, you don't need a visa, or a work permit etc. When we leave the EU, you will have to try and get one. This will probably have an associated cost, it will have bureaucracy and paperwork, and in the end you could still be refused, because you will no longer have the RIGHT to work there.
so you think that at the moment there is no bureaucracy, paperwork or cost and that you cannot be refused? Try it
The visa/work permit system is pretty much in place already in most EU countries, just under another name. Not a lot will change
At the moment a UK citizen cannot be treated any differently to a Spanish citizen in Spain, so anything you have to do, they have to do too.
I have never worked in Spain, so are you saying before a Spanish citizen can take up a job, they have to apply for permission from the government, and the government can refuse it, leaving that person unemployed, even though they have an offer of employment?
so a Spanish person has to turn up and register with passport and job details etc at the Oficina de Extranjeros or local police station and pay a fee before they can start work do they?
You didn't answer my question.
Here is what the EU says:
Workers’ rights of movement and residence
Directive 2004/38/EC introduces EU citizenship as the basic status for nationals of the Member States when they exercise their right to move and reside freely on EU territory. For the first three months, every EU citizen has the right to reside on the territory of another EU country without any conditions or formalities. For longer periods, the host Member State may require a citizen to register his or her presence within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.
Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence.
Directive 2004/38/EC amended Regulation 1612/68/EEC with regard to family reunification and extended the definition of ‘family member’ (formerly limited to spouse, descendants aged under 21 or dependent children, and dependent ascendants) to include registered partners if the host Member State’s legislation considers a registered partnership to be the equivalent of a marriage. Irrespective of their nationality, these family members have the right to reside in the same country as the worker.
2.Employment
As regards working and employment conditions in the territory of the host Member State, workers who are nationals of another Member State cannot be treated differently from national workers because of their nationality. This applies in particular to matters pertaining to recruitment, dismissal and remuneration, and to occupational training and retraining measures. Nationals of one Member State working in another have the same social and tax benefits and access to housing as national workers, and are entitled to equal treatment in respect of the exercise of trade union rights.
The right to remain in the host country after stopping work is now laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled. After acquiring the right of permanent residence in the host Member State, EU citizens are no longer subject to any conditions (such as sufficient financial means) but can, if necessary, rely on social assistance in the host Member State in the same way as its nationals can.
If you think you are not being treated in accordance with your treaty rights, then take them to court.
did you read any of that? Just read the first 2 paragraphs again and comprehend it!
Yes, I have read it, and understood it. You have yet again, failed to answer the question I posed to you.
You obviously haven't understood it because it backs up my arguement.
Your question? No a Spanish person won't be refused a job by the government if they have a job offer. Why would a non EU national be turned down if they have a job offer and meet the criteria?
Now answer my question, does a Spanish person have to register at the Oficina de Extranjeros or a local police station with their passport and job offer etc and pay a fee before they start work?
You said a work permit/visa system is already in place. Yet again I have proved you wrong. There is no work permit/visa system in place for EU citizens.
no I did not, I said as good as. What the fuck do you think you have to go to the foreign office or police station and pay a fee for? Fun? What difference is that to getting a visa?"Well as you only have to go there 3 months after you started the job, how exactly does that stop you from getting a job? | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again.
anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?
Now, you have the RIGHT, to work in Spain, or any other EU country, you don't need a visa, or a work permit etc. When we leave the EU, you will have to try and get one. This will probably have an associated cost, it will have bureaucracy and paperwork, and in the end you could still be refused, because you will no longer have the RIGHT to work there.
so you think that at the moment there is no bureaucracy, paperwork or cost and that you cannot be refused? Try it
The visa/work permit system is pretty much in place already in most EU countries, just under another name. Not a lot will change
At the moment a UK citizen cannot be treated any differently to a Spanish citizen in Spain, so anything you have to do, they have to do too.
I have never worked in Spain, so are you saying before a Spanish citizen can take up a job, they have to apply for permission from the government, and the government can refuse it, leaving that person unemployed, even though they have an offer of employment?
so a Spanish person has to turn up and register with passport and job details etc at the Oficina de Extranjeros or local police station and pay a fee before they can start work do they?
You didn't answer my question.
Here is what the EU says:
Workers’ rights of movement and residence
Directive 2004/38/EC introduces EU citizenship as the basic status for nationals of the Member States when they exercise their right to move and reside freely on EU territory. For the first three months, every EU citizen has the right to reside on the territory of another EU country without any conditions or formalities. For longer periods, the host Member State may require a citizen to register his or her presence within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.
Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence.
Directive 2004/38/EC amended Regulation 1612/68/EEC with regard to family reunification and extended the definition of ‘family member’ (formerly limited to spouse, descendants aged under 21 or dependent children, and dependent ascendants) to include registered partners if the host Member State’s legislation considers a registered partnership to be the equivalent of a marriage. Irrespective of their nationality, these family members have the right to reside in the same country as the worker.
2.Employment
As regards working and employment conditions in the territory of the host Member State, workers who are nationals of another Member State cannot be treated differently from national workers because of their nationality. This applies in particular to matters pertaining to recruitment, dismissal and remuneration, and to occupational training and retraining measures. Nationals of one Member State working in another have the same social and tax benefits and access to housing as national workers, and are entitled to equal treatment in respect of the exercise of trade union rights.
The right to remain in the host country after stopping work is now laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled. After acquiring the right of permanent residence in the host Member State, EU citizens are no longer subject to any conditions (such as sufficient financial means) but can, if necessary, rely on social assistance in the host Member State in the same way as its nationals can.
If you think you are not being treated in accordance with your treaty rights, then take them to court.
did you read any of that? Just read the first 2 paragraphs again and comprehend it!
Yes, I have read it, and understood it. You have yet again, failed to answer the question I posed to you.
I think you should read it again then it clearly states you have 3 months grace after that you are required to register.
So you're saying that you don't need to register before taking up employment, just after three months? So CandM are wrong then? Thanks for proving my point for me! "No your both right you for the first 3 months then CandM are right for the rest of your stay in that country. | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again.
anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?
Now, you have the RIGHT, to work in Spain, or any other EU country, you don't need a visa, or a work permit etc. When we leave the EU, you will have to try and get one. This will probably have an associated cost, it will have bureaucracy and paperwork, and in the end you could still be refused, because you will no longer have the RIGHT to work there.
so you think that at the moment there is no bureaucracy, paperwork or cost and that you cannot be refused? Try it
The visa/work permit system is pretty much in place already in most EU countries, just under another name. Not a lot will change
At the moment a UK citizen cannot be treated any differently to a Spanish citizen in Spain, so anything you have to do, they have to do too.
I have never worked in Spain, so are you saying before a Spanish citizen can take up a job, they have to apply for permission from the government, and the government can refuse it, leaving that person unemployed, even though they have an offer of employment?
so a Spanish person has to turn up and register with passport and job details etc at the Oficina de Extranjeros or local police station and pay a fee before they can start work do they?
You didn't answer my question.
Here is what the EU says:
Workers’ rights of movement and residence
Directive 2004/38/EC introduces EU citizenship as the basic status for nationals of the Member States when they exercise their right to move and reside freely on EU territory. For the first three months, every EU citizen has the right to reside on the territory of another EU country without any conditions or formalities. For longer periods, the host Member State may require a citizen to register his or her presence within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.
Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence.
Directive 2004/38/EC amended Regulation 1612/68/EEC with regard to family reunification and extended the definition of ‘family member’ (formerly limited to spouse, descendants aged under 21 or dependent children, and dependent ascendants) to include registered partners if the host Member State’s legislation considers a registered partnership to be the equivalent of a marriage. Irrespective of their nationality, these family members have the right to reside in the same country as the worker.
2.Employment
As regards working and employment conditions in the territory of the host Member State, workers who are nationals of another Member State cannot be treated differently from national workers because of their nationality. This applies in particular to matters pertaining to recruitment, dismissal and remuneration, and to occupational training and retraining measures. Nationals of one Member State working in another have the same social and tax benefits and access to housing as national workers, and are entitled to equal treatment in respect of the exercise of trade union rights.
The right to remain in the host country after stopping work is now laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled. After acquiring the right of permanent residence in the host Member State, EU citizens are no longer subject to any conditions (such as sufficient financial means) but can, if necessary, rely on social assistance in the host Member State in the same way as its nationals can.
If you think you are not being treated in accordance with your treaty rights, then take them to court.
did you read any of that? Just read the first 2 paragraphs again and comprehend it!
Yes, I have read it, and understood it. You have yet again, failed to answer the question I posed to you.
You obviously haven't understood it because it backs up my arguement.
Your question? No a Spanish person won't be refused a job by the government if they have a job offer. Why would a non EU national be turned down if they have a job offer and meet the criteria?
Now answer my question, does a Spanish person have to register at the Oficina de Extranjeros or a local police station with their passport and job offer etc and pay a fee before they start work?
You said a work permit/visa system is already in place. Yet again I have proved you wrong. There is no work permit/visa system in place for EU citizens.
no I did not, I said as good as. What the fuck do you think you have to go to the foreign office or police station and pay a fee for? Fun? What difference is that to getting a visa?"Your wasting your time they wont listen. | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again.
anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?
Now, you have the RIGHT, to work in Spain, or any other EU country, you don't need a visa, or a work permit etc. When we leave the EU, you will have to try and get one. This will probably have an associated cost, it will have bureaucracy and paperwork, and in the end you could still be refused, because you will no longer have the RIGHT to work there.
so you think that at the moment there is no bureaucracy, paperwork or cost and that you cannot be refused? Try it
The visa/work permit system is pretty much in place already in most EU countries, just under another name. Not a lot will change
At the moment a UK citizen cannot be treated any differently to a Spanish citizen in Spain, so anything you have to do, they have to do too.
I have never worked in Spain, so are you saying before a Spanish citizen can take up a job, they have to apply for permission from the government, and the government can refuse it, leaving that person unemployed, even though they have an offer of employment?
so a Spanish person has to turn up and register with passport and job details etc at the Oficina de Extranjeros or local police station and pay a fee before they can start work do they?
You didn't answer my question.
Here is what the EU says:
Workers’ rights of movement and residence
Directive 2004/38/EC introduces EU citizenship as the basic status for nationals of the Member States when they exercise their right to move and reside freely on EU territory. For the first three months, every EU citizen has the right to reside on the territory of another EU country without any conditions or formalities. For longer periods, the host Member State may require a citizen to register his or her presence within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.
Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence.
Directive 2004/38/EC amended Regulation 1612/68/EEC with regard to family reunification and extended the definition of ‘family member’ (formerly limited to spouse, descendants aged under 21 or dependent children, and dependent ascendants) to include registered partners if the host Member State’s legislation considers a registered partnership to be the equivalent of a marriage. Irrespective of their nationality, these family members have the right to reside in the same country as the worker.
2.Employment
As regards working and employment conditions in the territory of the host Member State, workers who are nationals of another Member State cannot be treated differently from national workers because of their nationality. This applies in particular to matters pertaining to recruitment, dismissal and remuneration, and to occupational training and retraining measures. Nationals of one Member State working in another have the same social and tax benefits and access to housing as national workers, and are entitled to equal treatment in respect of the exercise of trade union rights.
The right to remain in the host country after stopping work is now laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled. After acquiring the right of permanent residence in the host Member State, EU citizens are no longer subject to any conditions (such as sufficient financial means) but can, if necessary, rely on social assistance in the host Member State in the same way as its nationals can.
If you think you are not being treated in accordance with your treaty rights, then take them to court.
did you read any of that? Just read the first 2 paragraphs again and comprehend it!
Yes, I have read it, and understood it. You have yet again, failed to answer the question I posed to you.
You obviously haven't understood it because it backs up my arguement.
Your question? No a Spanish person won't be refused a job by the government if they have a job offer. Why would a non EU national be turned down if they have a job offer and meet the criteria?
Now answer my question, does a Spanish person have to register at the Oficina de Extranjeros or a local police station with their passport and job offer etc and pay a fee before they start work?
You said a work permit/visa system is already in place. Yet again I have proved you wrong. There is no work permit/visa system in place for EU citizens.
no I did not, I said as good as. What the fuck do you think you have to go to the foreign office or police station and pay a fee for? Fun? What difference is that to getting a visa?
Well as you only have to go there 3 months after you started the job, how exactly does that stop you from getting a job? "no, you can live there for 3 months before you HAVE to do that. You HAVE to do that BEFORE you start any job to get your NIE (national insurance) number | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again.
anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?
Now, you have the RIGHT, to work in Spain, or any other EU country, you don't need a visa, or a work permit etc. When we leave the EU, you will have to try and get one. This will probably have an associated cost, it will have bureaucracy and paperwork, and in the end you could still be refused, because you will no longer have the RIGHT to work there.
so you think that at the moment there is no bureaucracy, paperwork or cost and that you cannot be refused? Try it
The visa/work permit system is pretty much in place already in most EU countries, just under another name. Not a lot will change
At the moment a UK citizen cannot be treated any differently to a Spanish citizen in Spain, so anything you have to do, they have to do too.
I have never worked in Spain, so are you saying before a Spanish citizen can take up a job, they have to apply for permission from the government, and the government can refuse it, leaving that person unemployed, even though they have an offer of employment?
so a Spanish person has to turn up and register with passport and job details etc at the Oficina de Extranjeros or local police station and pay a fee before they can start work do they?
You didn't answer my question.
Here is what the EU says:
Workers’ rights of movement and residence
Directive 2004/38/EC introduces EU citizenship as the basic status for nationals of the Member States when they exercise their right to move and reside freely on EU territory. For the first three months, every EU citizen has the right to reside on the territory of another EU country without any conditions or formalities. For longer periods, the host Member State may require a citizen to register his or her presence within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.
Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence.
Directive 2004/38/EC amended Regulation 1612/68/EEC with regard to family reunification and extended the definition of ‘family member’ (formerly limited to spouse, descendants aged under 21 or dependent children, and dependent ascendants) to include registered partners if the host Member State’s legislation considers a registered partnership to be the equivalent of a marriage. Irrespective of their nationality, these family members have the right to reside in the same country as the worker.
2.Employment
As regards working and employment conditions in the territory of the host Member State, workers who are nationals of another Member State cannot be treated differently from national workers because of their nationality. This applies in particular to matters pertaining to recruitment, dismissal and remuneration, and to occupational training and retraining measures. Nationals of one Member State working in another have the same social and tax benefits and access to housing as national workers, and are entitled to equal treatment in respect of the exercise of trade union rights.
The right to remain in the host country after stopping work is now laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled. After acquiring the right of permanent residence in the host Member State, EU citizens are no longer subject to any conditions (such as sufficient financial means) but can, if necessary, rely on social assistance in the host Member State in the same way as its nationals can.
If you think you are not being treated in accordance with your treaty rights, then take them to court.
did you read any of that? Just read the first 2 paragraphs again and comprehend it!
Yes, I have read it, and understood it. You have yet again, failed to answer the question I posed to you.
You obviously haven't understood it because it backs up my arguement.
Your question? No a Spanish person won't be refused a job by the government if they have a job offer. Why would a non EU national be turned down if they have a job offer and meet the criteria?
Now answer my question, does a Spanish person have to register at the Oficina de Extranjeros or a local police station with their passport and job offer etc and pay a fee before they start work?
You said a work permit/visa system is already in place. Yet again I have proved you wrong. There is no work permit/visa system in place for EU citizens.
no I did not, I said as good as. What the fuck do you think you have to go to the foreign office or police station and pay a fee for? Fun? What difference is that to getting a visa?
Well as you only have to go there 3 months after you started the job, how exactly does that stop you from getting a job?
no, you can live there for 3 months before you HAVE to do that. You HAVE to do that BEFORE you start any job to get your NIE (national insurance) number"Other EU citizens have to get an NI number before they can work in the UK, exactly the same as a UK citizen. You still haven't explained why they would or could refuse to give you one, as you have the RIGHT to live and work there, unlike a visa or work permit system where they could refuse you, say on the grounds that they have a cap on immigration and don't want anymore. | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again.
anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?
Now, you have the RIGHT, to work in Spain, or any other EU country, you don't need a visa, or a work permit etc. When we leave the EU, you will have to try and get one. This will probably have an associated cost, it will have bureaucracy and paperwork, and in the end you could still be refused, because you will no longer have the RIGHT to work there.
so you think that at the moment there is no bureaucracy, paperwork or cost and that you cannot be refused? Try it
The visa/work permit system is pretty much in place already in most EU countries, just under another name. Not a lot will change
At the moment a UK citizen cannot be treated any differently to a Spanish citizen in Spain, so anything you have to do, they have to do too.
I have never worked in Spain, so are you saying before a Spanish citizen can take up a job, they have to apply for permission from the government, and the government can refuse it, leaving that person unemployed, even though they have an offer of employment?
so a Spanish person has to turn up and register with passport and job details etc at the Oficina de Extranjeros or local police station and pay a fee before they can start work do they?
You didn't answer my question.
Here is what the EU says:
Workers’ rights of movement and residence
Directive 2004/38/EC introduces EU citizenship as the basic status for nationals of the Member States when they exercise their right to move and reside freely on EU territory. For the first three months, every EU citizen has the right to reside on the territory of another EU country without any conditions or formalities. For longer periods, the host Member State may require a citizen to register his or her presence within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.
Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence.
Directive 2004/38/EC amended Regulation 1612/68/EEC with regard to family reunification and extended the definition of ‘family member’ (formerly limited to spouse, descendants aged under 21 or dependent children, and dependent ascendants) to include registered partners if the host Member State’s legislation considers a registered partnership to be the equivalent of a marriage. Irrespective of their nationality, these family members have the right to reside in the same country as the worker.
2.Employment
As regards working and employment conditions in the territory of the host Member State, workers who are nationals of another Member State cannot be treated differently from national workers because of their nationality. This applies in particular to matters pertaining to recruitment, dismissal and remuneration, and to occupational training and retraining measures. Nationals of one Member State working in another have the same social and tax benefits and access to housing as national workers, and are entitled to equal treatment in respect of the exercise of trade union rights.
The right to remain in the host country after stopping work is now laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled. After acquiring the right of permanent residence in the host Member State, EU citizens are no longer subject to any conditions (such as sufficient financial means) but can, if necessary, rely on social assistance in the host Member State in the same way as its nationals can.
If you think you are not being treated in accordance with your treaty rights, then take them to court.
did you read any of that? Just read the first 2 paragraphs again and comprehend it!
Yes, I have read it, and understood it. You have yet again, failed to answer the question I posed to you.
You obviously haven't understood it because it backs up my arguement.
Your question? No a Spanish person won't be refused a job by the government if they have a job offer. Why would a non EU national be turned down if they have a job offer and meet the criteria?
Now answer my question, does a Spanish person have to register at the Oficina de Extranjeros or a local police station with their passport and job offer etc and pay a fee before they start work?
You said a work permit/visa system is already in place. Yet again I have proved you wrong. There is no work permit/visa system in place for EU citizens.
no I did not, I said as good as. What the fuck do you think you have to go to the foreign office or police station and pay a fee for? Fun? What difference is that to getting a visa?
Well as you only have to go there 3 months after you started the job, how exactly does that stop you from getting a job?
no, you can live there for 3 months before you HAVE to do that. You HAVE to do that BEFORE you start any job to get your NIE (national insurance) number
Other EU citizens have to get an NI number before they can work in the UK, exactly the same as a UK citizen.
You still haven't explained why they would or could refuse to give you one, as you have the RIGHT to live and work there, unlike a visa or work permit system where they could refuse you, say on the grounds that they have a cap on immigration and don't want anymore."If after 3 months you have no job and therefore they don't want/need any more and you have no means of support or healthcare provision then they can deport you now even if you are a member of the EU. What is the difference? | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again.
anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?
Now, you have the RIGHT, to work in Spain, or any other EU country, you don't need a visa, or a work permit etc. When we leave the EU, you will have to try and get one. This will probably have an associated cost, it will have bureaucracy and paperwork, and in the end you could still be refused, because you will no longer have the RIGHT to work there.
so you think that at the moment there is no bureaucracy, paperwork or cost and that you cannot be refused? Try it
The visa/work permit system is pretty much in place already in most EU countries, just under another name. Not a lot will change
At the moment a UK citizen cannot be treated any differently to a Spanish citizen in Spain, so anything you have to do, they have to do too.
I have never worked in Spain, so are you saying before a Spanish citizen can take up a job, they have to apply for permission from the government, and the government can refuse it, leaving that person unemployed, even though they have an offer of employment?
so a Spanish person has to turn up and register with passport and job details etc at the Oficina de Extranjeros or local police station and pay a fee before they can start work do they?
You didn't answer my question.
Here is what the EU says:
Workers’ rights of movement and residence
Directive 2004/38/EC introduces EU citizenship as the basic status for nationals of the Member States when they exercise their right to move and reside freely on EU territory. For the first three months, every EU citizen has the right to reside on the territory of another EU country without any conditions or formalities. For longer periods, the host Member State may require a citizen to register his or her presence within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.
Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence.
Directive 2004/38/EC amended Regulation 1612/68/EEC with regard to family reunification and extended the definition of ‘family member’ (formerly limited to spouse, descendants aged under 21 or dependent children, and dependent ascendants) to include registered partners if the host Member State’s legislation considers a registered partnership to be the equivalent of a marriage. Irrespective of their nationality, these family members have the right to reside in the same country as the worker.
2.Employment
As regards working and employment conditions in the territory of the host Member State, workers who are nationals of another Member State cannot be treated differently from national workers because of their nationality. This applies in particular to matters pertaining to recruitment, dismissal and remuneration, and to occupational training and retraining measures. Nationals of one Member State working in another have the same social and tax benefits and access to housing as national workers, and are entitled to equal treatment in respect of the exercise of trade union rights.
The right to remain in the host country after stopping work is now laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled. After acquiring the right of permanent residence in the host Member State, EU citizens are no longer subject to any conditions (such as sufficient financial means) but can, if necessary, rely on social assistance in the host Member State in the same way as its nationals can.
If you think you are not being treated in accordance with your treaty rights, then take them to court.
did you read any of that? Just read the first 2 paragraphs again and comprehend it!
Yes, I have read it, and understood it. You have yet again, failed to answer the question I posed to you.
You obviously haven't understood it because it backs up my arguement.
Your question? No a Spanish person won't be refused a job by the government if they have a job offer. Why would a non EU national be turned down if they have a job offer and meet the criteria?
Now answer my question, does a Spanish person have to register at the Oficina de Extranjeros or a local police station with their passport and job offer etc and pay a fee before they start work?
You said a work permit/visa system is already in place. Yet again I have proved you wrong. There is no work permit/visa system in place for EU citizens.
no I did not, I said as good as. What the fuck do you think you have to go to the foreign office or police station and pay a fee for? Fun? What difference is that to getting a visa?
Well as you only have to go there 3 months after you started the job, how exactly does that stop you from getting a job?
no, you can live there for 3 months before you HAVE to do that. You HAVE to do that BEFORE you start any job to get your NIE (national insurance) number
Other EU citizens have to get an NI number before they can work in the UK, exactly the same as a UK citizen.
You still haven't explained why they would or could refuse to give you one, as you have the RIGHT to live and work there, unlike a visa or work permit system where they could refuse you, say on the grounds that they have a cap on immigration and don't want anymore.
If after 3 months you have no job and therefore they don't want/need any more and you have no means of support or healthcare provision then they can deport you now even if you are a member of the EU. What is the difference?"No they cant! Stop lying! "Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled." But the difference between now and after we leave, is now you can be offered a job and take it up and the government can't stop you because you have the RIGHT to work there. In the future, you could apply for a job and be offered it, yet be denied a work permit/visa because the government has reached an immigration target, or because they have enough people for that industry etc. Can you really not see the difference there? | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again.
anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?
Now, you have the RIGHT, to work in Spain, or any other EU country, you don't need a visa, or a work permit etc. When we leave the EU, you will have to try and get one. This will probably have an associated cost, it will have bureaucracy and paperwork, and in the end you could still be refused, because you will no longer have the RIGHT to work there.
so you think that at the moment there is no bureaucracy, paperwork or cost and that you cannot be refused? Try it
The visa/work permit system is pretty much in place already in most EU countries, just under another name. Not a lot will change
At the moment a UK citizen cannot be treated any differently to a Spanish citizen in Spain, so anything you have to do, they have to do too.
I have never worked in Spain, so are you saying before a Spanish citizen can take up a job, they have to apply for permission from the government, and the government can refuse it, leaving that person unemployed, even though they have an offer of employment?
so a Spanish person has to turn up and register with passport and job details etc at the Oficina de Extranjeros or local police station and pay a fee before they can start work do they?
You didn't answer my question.
Here is what the EU says:
Workers’ rights of movement and residence
Directive 2004/38/EC introduces EU citizenship as the basic status for nationals of the Member States when they exercise their right to move and reside freely on EU territory. For the first three months, every EU citizen has the right to reside on the territory of another EU country without any conditions or formalities. For longer periods, the host Member State may require a citizen to register his or her presence within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.
Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence.
Directive 2004/38/EC amended Regulation 1612/68/EEC with regard to family reunification and extended the definition of ‘family member’ (formerly limited to spouse, descendants aged under 21 or dependent children, and dependent ascendants) to include registered partners if the host Member State’s legislation considers a registered partnership to be the equivalent of a marriage. Irrespective of their nationality, these family members have the right to reside in the same country as the worker.
2.Employment
As regards working and employment conditions in the territory of the host Member State, workers who are nationals of another Member State cannot be treated differently from national workers because of their nationality. This applies in particular to matters pertaining to recruitment, dismissal and remuneration, and to occupational training and retraining measures. Nationals of one Member State working in another have the same social and tax benefits and access to housing as national workers, and are entitled to equal treatment in respect of the exercise of trade union rights.
The right to remain in the host country after stopping work is now laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled. After acquiring the right of permanent residence in the host Member State, EU citizens are no longer subject to any conditions (such as sufficient financial means) but can, if necessary, rely on social assistance in the host Member State in the same way as its nationals can.
If you think you are not being treated in accordance with your treaty rights, then take them to court.
did you read any of that? Just read the first 2 paragraphs again and comprehend it!
Yes, I have read it, and understood it. You have yet again, failed to answer the question I posed to you.
You obviously haven't understood it because it backs up my arguement.
Your question? No a Spanish person won't be refused a job by the government if they have a job offer. Why would a non EU national be turned down if they have a job offer and meet the criteria?
Now answer my question, does a Spanish person have to register at the Oficina de Extranjeros or a local police station with their passport and job offer etc and pay a fee before they start work?
You said a work permit/visa system is already in place. Yet again I have proved you wrong. There is no work permit/visa system in place for EU citizens.
no I did not, I said as good as. What the fuck do you think you have to go to the foreign office or police station and pay a fee for? Fun? What difference is that to getting a visa?
Well as you only have to go there 3 months after you started the job, how exactly does that stop you from getting a job?
no, you can live there for 3 months before you HAVE to do that. You HAVE to do that BEFORE you start any job to get your NIE (national insurance) number
Other EU citizens have to get an NI number before they can work in the UK, exactly the same as a UK citizen.
You still haven't explained why they would or could refuse to give you one, as you have the RIGHT to live and work there, unlike a visa or work permit system where they could refuse you, say on the grounds that they have a cap on immigration and don't want anymore.
If after 3 months you have no job and therefore they don't want/need any more and you have no means of support or healthcare provision then they can deport you now even if you are a member of the EU. What is the difference?
No they cant! Stop lying! "Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled."
But the difference between now and after we leave, is now you can be offered a job and take it up and the government can't stop you because you have the RIGHT to work there. In the future, you could apply for a job and be offered it, yet be denied a work permit/visa because the government has reached an immigration target, or because they have enough people for that industry etc. Can you really not see the difference there? "They don't have immigration targets they have FREE MOVEMENT OF PEOPLE do they not. | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again.
anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?
Now, you have the RIGHT, to work in Spain, or any other EU country, you don't need a visa, or a work permit etc. When we leave the EU, you will have to try and get one. This will probably have an associated cost, it will have bureaucracy and paperwork, and in the end you could still be refused, because you will no longer have the RIGHT to work there.
so you think that at the moment there is no bureaucracy, paperwork or cost and that you cannot be refused? Try it
The visa/work permit system is pretty much in place already in most EU countries, just under another name. Not a lot will change
At the moment a UK citizen cannot be treated any differently to a Spanish citizen in Spain, so anything you have to do, they have to do too.
I have never worked in Spain, so are you saying before a Spanish citizen can take up a job, they have to apply for permission from the government, and the government can refuse it, leaving that person unemployed, even though they have an offer of employment?
so a Spanish person has to turn up and register with passport and job details etc at the Oficina de Extranjeros or local police station and pay a fee before they can start work do they?
You didn't answer my question.
Here is what the EU says:
Workers’ rights of movement and residence
Directive 2004/38/EC introduces EU citizenship as the basic status for nationals of the Member States when they exercise their right to move and reside freely on EU territory. For the first three months, every EU citizen has the right to reside on the territory of another EU country without any conditions or formalities. For longer periods, the host Member State may require a citizen to register his or her presence within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.
Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence.
Directive 2004/38/EC amended Regulation 1612/68/EEC with regard to family reunification and extended the definition of ‘family member’ (formerly limited to spouse, descendants aged under 21 or dependent children, and dependent ascendants) to include registered partners if the host Member State’s legislation considers a registered partnership to be the equivalent of a marriage. Irrespective of their nationality, these family members have the right to reside in the same country as the worker.
2.Employment
As regards working and employment conditions in the territory of the host Member State, workers who are nationals of another Member State cannot be treated differently from national workers because of their nationality. This applies in particular to matters pertaining to recruitment, dismissal and remuneration, and to occupational training and retraining measures. Nationals of one Member State working in another have the same social and tax benefits and access to housing as national workers, and are entitled to equal treatment in respect of the exercise of trade union rights.
The right to remain in the host country after stopping work is now laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled. After acquiring the right of permanent residence in the host Member State, EU citizens are no longer subject to any conditions (such as sufficient financial means) but can, if necessary, rely on social assistance in the host Member State in the same way as its nationals can.
If you think you are not being treated in accordance with your treaty rights, then take them to court.
did you read any of that? Just read the first 2 paragraphs again and comprehend it!
Yes, I have read it, and understood it. You have yet again, failed to answer the question I posed to you.
You obviously haven't understood it because it backs up my arguement.
Your question? No a Spanish person won't be refused a job by the government if they have a job offer. Why would a non EU national be turned down if they have a job offer and meet the criteria?
Now answer my question, does a Spanish person have to register at the Oficina de Extranjeros or a local police station with their passport and job offer etc and pay a fee before they start work?
You said a work permit/visa system is already in place. Yet again I have proved you wrong. There is no work permit/visa system in place for EU citizens.
no I did not, I said as good as. What the fuck do you think you have to go to the foreign office or police station and pay a fee for? Fun? What difference is that to getting a visa?
Well as you only have to go there 3 months after you started the job, how exactly does that stop you from getting a job?
no, you can live there for 3 months before you HAVE to do that. You HAVE to do that BEFORE you start any job to get your NIE (national insurance) number
Other EU citizens have to get an NI number before they can work in the UK, exactly the same as a UK citizen.
You still haven't explained why they would or could refuse to give you one, as you have the RIGHT to live and work there, unlike a visa or work permit system where they could refuse you, say on the grounds that they have a cap on immigration and don't want anymore.
If after 3 months you have no job and therefore they don't want/need any more and you have no means of support or healthcare provision then they can deport you now even if you are a member of the EU. What is the difference?
No they cant! Stop lying! "Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled."
But the difference between now and after we leave, is now you can be offered a job and take it up and the government can't stop you because you have the RIGHT to work there. In the future, you could apply for a job and be offered it, yet be denied a work permit/visa because the government has reached an immigration target, or because they have enough people for that industry etc. Can you really not see the difference there?
They don't have immigration targets they have FREE MOVEMENT OF PEOPLE do they not. "For EU citizens, but you just voted to leave the EU remember? That's why you will lose the RIGHT to free movement of people. Or do you think that Spain has an open immigration policy that offers free movement of people to everyone in the world? | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again.
anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?
Now, you have the RIGHT, to work in Spain, or any other EU country, you don't need a visa, or a work permit etc. When we leave the EU, you will have to try and get one. This will probably have an associated cost, it will have bureaucracy and paperwork, and in the end you could still be refused, because you will no longer have the RIGHT to work there.
so you think that at the moment there is no bureaucracy, paperwork or cost and that you cannot be refused? Try it
The visa/work permit system is pretty much in place already in most EU countries, just under another name. Not a lot will change
At the moment a UK citizen cannot be treated any differently to a Spanish citizen in Spain, so anything you have to do, they have to do too.
I have never worked in Spain, so are you saying before a Spanish citizen can take up a job, they have to apply for permission from the government, and the government can refuse it, leaving that person unemployed, even though they have an offer of employment?
so a Spanish person has to turn up and register with passport and job details etc at the Oficina de Extranjeros or local police station and pay a fee before they can start work do they?
You didn't answer my question.
Here is what the EU says:
Workers’ rights of movement and residence
Directive 2004/38/EC introduces EU citizenship as the basic status for nationals of the Member States when they exercise their right to move and reside freely on EU territory. For the first three months, every EU citizen has the right to reside on the territory of another EU country without any conditions or formalities. For longer periods, the host Member State may require a citizen to register his or her presence within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.
Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence.
Directive 2004/38/EC amended Regulation 1612/68/EEC with regard to family reunification and extended the definition of ‘family member’ (formerly limited to spouse, descendants aged under 21 or dependent children, and dependent ascendants) to include registered partners if the host Member State’s legislation considers a registered partnership to be the equivalent of a marriage. Irrespective of their nationality, these family members have the right to reside in the same country as the worker.
2.Employment
As regards working and employment conditions in the territory of the host Member State, workers who are nationals of another Member State cannot be treated differently from national workers because of their nationality. This applies in particular to matters pertaining to recruitment, dismissal and remuneration, and to occupational training and retraining measures. Nationals of one Member State working in another have the same social and tax benefits and access to housing as national workers, and are entitled to equal treatment in respect of the exercise of trade union rights.
The right to remain in the host country after stopping work is now laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled. After acquiring the right of permanent residence in the host Member State, EU citizens are no longer subject to any conditions (such as sufficient financial means) but can, if necessary, rely on social assistance in the host Member State in the same way as its nationals can.
If you think you are not being treated in accordance with your treaty rights, then take them to court.
did you read any of that? Just read the first 2 paragraphs again and comprehend it!
Yes, I have read it, and understood it. You have yet again, failed to answer the question I posed to you.
You obviously haven't understood it because it backs up my arguement.
Your question? No a Spanish person won't be refused a job by the government if they have a job offer. Why would a non EU national be turned down if they have a job offer and meet the criteria?
Now answer my question, does a Spanish person have to register at the Oficina de Extranjeros or a local police station with their passport and job offer etc and pay a fee before they start work?
You said a work permit/visa system is already in place. Yet again I have proved you wrong. There is no work permit/visa system in place for EU citizens.
no I did not, I said as good as. What the fuck do you think you have to go to the foreign office or police station and pay a fee for? Fun? What difference is that to getting a visa?
Well as you only have to go there 3 months after you started the job, how exactly does that stop you from getting a job?
no, you can live there for 3 months before you HAVE to do that. You HAVE to do that BEFORE you start any job to get your NIE (national insurance) number
Other EU citizens have to get an NI number before they can work in the UK, exactly the same as a UK citizen.
You still haven't explained why they would or could refuse to give you one, as you have the RIGHT to live and work there, unlike a visa or work permit system where they could refuse you, say on the grounds that they have a cap on immigration and don't want anymore.
If after 3 months you have no job and therefore they don't want/need any more and you have no means of support or healthcare provision then they can deport you now even if you are a member of the EU. What is the difference?
No they cant! Stop lying! "Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled."
But the difference between now and after we leave, is now you can be offered a job and take it up and the government can't stop you because you have the RIGHT to work there. In the future, you could apply for a job and be offered it, yet be denied a work permit/visa because the government has reached an immigration target, or because they have enough people for that industry etc. Can you really not see the difference there?
They don't have immigration targets they have FREE MOVEMENT OF PEOPLE do they not.
For EU citizens, but you just voted to leave the EU remember? That's why you will lose the RIGHT to free movement of people. Or do you think that Spain has an open immigration policy that offers free movement of people to everyone in the world?"But we have NOT left the EU yet or are you talking about in years to come I did,nt see anywhere where you said after we leave. | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again.
anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?
Now, you have the RIGHT, to work in Spain, or any other EU country, you don't need a visa, or a work permit etc. When we leave the EU, you will have to try and get one. This will probably have an associated cost, it will have bureaucracy and paperwork, and in the end you could still be refused, because you will no longer have the RIGHT to work there.
so you think that at the moment there is no bureaucracy, paperwork or cost and that you cannot be refused? Try it
The visa/work permit system is pretty much in place already in most EU countries, just under another name. Not a lot will change
At the moment a UK citizen cannot be treated any differently to a Spanish citizen in Spain, so anything you have to do, they have to do too.
I have never worked in Spain, so are you saying before a Spanish citizen can take up a job, they have to apply for permission from the government, and the government can refuse it, leaving that person unemployed, even though they have an offer of employment?
so a Spanish person has to turn up and register with passport and job details etc at the Oficina de Extranjeros or local police station and pay a fee before they can start work do they?
You didn't answer my question.
Here is what the EU says:
Workers’ rights of movement and residence
Directive 2004/38/EC introduces EU citizenship as the basic status for nationals of the Member States when they exercise their right to move and reside freely on EU territory. For the first three months, every EU citizen has the right to reside on the territory of another EU country without any conditions or formalities. For longer periods, the host Member State may require a citizen to register his or her presence within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.
Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence.
Directive 2004/38/EC amended Regulation 1612/68/EEC with regard to family reunification and extended the definition of ‘family member’ (formerly limited to spouse, descendants aged under 21 or dependent children, and dependent ascendants) to include registered partners if the host Member State’s legislation considers a registered partnership to be the equivalent of a marriage. Irrespective of their nationality, these family members have the right to reside in the same country as the worker.
2.Employment
As regards working and employment conditions in the territory of the host Member State, workers who are nationals of another Member State cannot be treated differently from national workers because of their nationality. This applies in particular to matters pertaining to recruitment, dismissal and remuneration, and to occupational training and retraining measures. Nationals of one Member State working in another have the same social and tax benefits and access to housing as national workers, and are entitled to equal treatment in respect of the exercise of trade union rights.
The right to remain in the host country after stopping work is now laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled. After acquiring the right of permanent residence in the host Member State, EU citizens are no longer subject to any conditions (such as sufficient financial means) but can, if necessary, rely on social assistance in the host Member State in the same way as its nationals can.
If you think you are not being treated in accordance with your treaty rights, then take them to court.
did you read any of that? Just read the first 2 paragraphs again and comprehend it!
Yes, I have read it, and understood it. You have yet again, failed to answer the question I posed to you.
You obviously haven't understood it because it backs up my arguement.
Your question? No a Spanish person won't be refused a job by the government if they have a job offer. Why would a non EU national be turned down if they have a job offer and meet the criteria?
Now answer my question, does a Spanish person have to register at the Oficina de Extranjeros or a local police station with their passport and job offer etc and pay a fee before they start work?
You said a work permit/visa system is already in place. Yet again I have proved you wrong. There is no work permit/visa system in place for EU citizens.
no I did not, I said as good as. What the fuck do you think you have to go to the foreign office or police station and pay a fee for? Fun? What difference is that to getting a visa?
Well as you only have to go there 3 months after you started the job, how exactly does that stop you from getting a job?
no, you can live there for 3 months before you HAVE to do that. You HAVE to do that BEFORE you start any job to get your NIE (national insurance) number
Other EU citizens have to get an NI number before they can work in the UK, exactly the same as a UK citizen.
You still haven't explained why they would or could refuse to give you one, as you have the RIGHT to live and work there, unlike a visa or work permit system where they could refuse you, say on the grounds that they have a cap on immigration and don't want anymore.
If after 3 months you have no job and therefore they don't want/need any more and you have no means of support or healthcare provision then they can deport you now even if you are a member of the EU. What is the difference?
No they cant! Stop lying! "Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled."
But the difference between now and after we leave, is now you can be offered a job and take it up and the government can't stop you because you have the RIGHT to work there. In the future, you could apply for a job and be offered it, yet be denied a work permit/visa because the government has reached an immigration target, or because they have enough people for that industry etc. Can you really not see the difference there?
They don't have immigration targets they have FREE MOVEMENT OF PEOPLE do they not.
For EU citizens, but you just voted to leave the EU remember? That's why you will lose the RIGHT to free movement of people. Or do you think that Spain has an open immigration policy that offers free movement of people to everyone in the world?
But we have NOT left the EU yet or are you talking about in years to come I did,nt see anywhere where you said after we leave. "Sorry just found it you did say when we leave you are correct. | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again.
anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?
Now, you have the RIGHT, to work in Spain, or any other EU country, you don't need a visa, or a work permit etc. When we leave the EU, you will have to try and get one. This will probably have an associated cost, it will have bureaucracy and paperwork, and in the end you could still be refused, because you will no longer have the RIGHT to work there.
so you think that at the moment there is no bureaucracy, paperwork or cost and that you cannot be refused? Try it
The visa/work permit system is pretty much in place already in most EU countries, just under another name. Not a lot will change
At the moment a UK citizen cannot be treated any differently to a Spanish citizen in Spain, so anything you have to do, they have to do too.
I have never worked in Spain, so are you saying before a Spanish citizen can take up a job, they have to apply for permission from the government, and the government can refuse it, leaving that person unemployed, even though they have an offer of employment?
so a Spanish person has to turn up and register with passport and job details etc at the Oficina de Extranjeros or local police station and pay a fee before they can start work do they?
You didn't answer my question.
Here is what the EU says:
Workers’ rights of movement and residence
Directive 2004/38/EC introduces EU citizenship as the basic status for nationals of the Member States when they exercise their right to move and reside freely on EU territory. For the first three months, every EU citizen has the right to reside on the territory of another EU country without any conditions or formalities. For longer periods, the host Member State may require a citizen to register his or her presence within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.
Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence.
Directive 2004/38/EC amended Regulation 1612/68/EEC with regard to family reunification and extended the definition of ‘family member’ (formerly limited to spouse, descendants aged under 21 or dependent children, and dependent ascendants) to include registered partners if the host Member State’s legislation considers a registered partnership to be the equivalent of a marriage. Irrespective of their nationality, these family members have the right to reside in the same country as the worker.
2.Employment
As regards working and employment conditions in the territory of the host Member State, workers who are nationals of another Member State cannot be treated differently from national workers because of their nationality. This applies in particular to matters pertaining to recruitment, dismissal and remuneration, and to occupational training and retraining measures. Nationals of one Member State working in another have the same social and tax benefits and access to housing as national workers, and are entitled to equal treatment in respect of the exercise of trade union rights.
The right to remain in the host country after stopping work is now laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled. After acquiring the right of permanent residence in the host Member State, EU citizens are no longer subject to any conditions (such as sufficient financial means) but can, if necessary, rely on social assistance in the host Member State in the same way as its nationals can.
If you think you are not being treated in accordance with your treaty rights, then take them to court.
did you read any of that? Just read the first 2 paragraphs again and comprehend it!
Yes, I have read it, and understood it. You have yet again, failed to answer the question I posed to you.
You obviously haven't understood it because it backs up my arguement.
Your question? No a Spanish person won't be refused a job by the government if they have a job offer. Why would a non EU national be turned down if they have a job offer and meet the criteria?
Now answer my question, does a Spanish person have to register at the Oficina de Extranjeros or a local police station with their passport and job offer etc and pay a fee before they start work?
You said a work permit/visa system is already in place. Yet again I have proved you wrong. There is no work permit/visa system in place for EU citizens.
no I did not, I said as good as. What the fuck do you think you have to go to the foreign office or police station and pay a fee for? Fun? What difference is that to getting a visa?
Well as you only have to go there 3 months after you started the job, how exactly does that stop you from getting a job?
no, you can live there for 3 months before you HAVE to do that. You HAVE to do that BEFORE you start any job to get your NIE (national insurance) number
Other EU citizens have to get an NI number before they can work in the UK, exactly the same as a UK citizen.
You still haven't explained why they would or could refuse to give you one, as you have the RIGHT to live and work there, unlike a visa or work permit system where they could refuse you, say on the grounds that they have a cap on immigration and don't want anymore.
If after 3 months you have no job and therefore they don't want/need any more and you have no means of support or healthcare provision then they can deport you now even if you are a member of the EU. What is the difference?
No they cant! Stop lying! "Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled."
But the difference between now and after we leave, is now you can be offered a job and take it up and the government can't stop you because you have the RIGHT to work there. In the future, you could apply for a job and be offered it, yet be denied a work permit/visa because the government has reached an immigration target, or because they have enough people for that industry etc. Can you really not see the difference there? "jeez. Read it again. If after 3 months when you have to register and you have no job no means of support and no access to healthcare you can be expelled. Or do you think there is something you're entitled to? What country is going to allow a foreign vagrant to walk the streets with no access to healthcare? Yes of course I can see the difference which is why I said at the moment it is pretty much the same not the same. And if say Spain suddenly decided that they don't want somebody who has been done for speeding or dropping litter etc then they can simply say no they don't want you and your RIGHT has gone. | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again.
anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?
Now, you have the RIGHT, to work in Spain, or any other EU country, you don't need a visa, or a work permit etc. When we leave the EU, you will have to try and get one. This will probably have an associated cost, it will have bureaucracy and paperwork, and in the end you could still be refused, because you will no longer have the RIGHT to work there.
so you think that at the moment there is no bureaucracy, paperwork or cost and that you cannot be refused? Try it
The visa/work permit system is pretty much in place already in most EU countries, just under another name. Not a lot will change
At the moment a UK citizen cannot be treated any differently to a Spanish citizen in Spain, so anything you have to do, they have to do too.
I have never worked in Spain, so are you saying before a Spanish citizen can take up a job, they have to apply for permission from the government, and the government can refuse it, leaving that person unemployed, even though they have an offer of employment?
so a Spanish person has to turn up and register with passport and job details etc at the Oficina de Extranjeros or local police station and pay a fee before they can start work do they?
You didn't answer my question.
Here is what the EU says:
Workers’ rights of movement and residence
Directive 2004/38/EC introduces EU citizenship as the basic status for nationals of the Member States when they exercise their right to move and reside freely on EU territory. For the first three months, every EU citizen has the right to reside on the territory of another EU country without any conditions or formalities. For longer periods, the host Member State may require a citizen to register his or her presence within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.
Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence.
Directive 2004/38/EC amended Regulation 1612/68/EEC with regard to family reunification and extended the definition of ‘family member’ (formerly limited to spouse, descendants aged under 21 or dependent children, and dependent ascendants) to include registered partners if the host Member State’s legislation considers a registered partnership to be the equivalent of a marriage. Irrespective of their nationality, these family members have the right to reside in the same country as the worker.
2.Employment
As regards working and employment conditions in the territory of the host Member State, workers who are nationals of another Member State cannot be treated differently from national workers because of their nationality. This applies in particular to matters pertaining to recruitment, dismissal and remuneration, and to occupational training and retraining measures. Nationals of one Member State working in another have the same social and tax benefits and access to housing as national workers, and are entitled to equal treatment in respect of the exercise of trade union rights.
The right to remain in the host country after stopping work is now laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled. After acquiring the right of permanent residence in the host Member State, EU citizens are no longer subject to any conditions (such as sufficient financial means) but can, if necessary, rely on social assistance in the host Member State in the same way as its nationals can.
If you think you are not being treated in accordance with your treaty rights, then take them to court.
did you read any of that? Just read the first 2 paragraphs again and comprehend it!
Yes, I have read it, and understood it. You have yet again, failed to answer the question I posed to you.
You obviously haven't understood it because it backs up my arguement.
Your question? No a Spanish person won't be refused a job by the government if they have a job offer. Why would a non EU national be turned down if they have a job offer and meet the criteria?
Now answer my question, does a Spanish person have to register at the Oficina de Extranjeros or a local police station with their passport and job offer etc and pay a fee before they start work?
You said a work permit/visa system is already in place. Yet again I have proved you wrong. There is no work permit/visa system in place for EU citizens.
no I did not, I said as good as. What the fuck do you think you have to go to the foreign office or police station and pay a fee for? Fun? What difference is that to getting a visa?
Well as you only have to go there 3 months after you started the job, how exactly does that stop you from getting a job?
no, you can live there for 3 months before you HAVE to do that. You HAVE to do that BEFORE you start any job to get your NIE (national insurance) number
Other EU citizens have to get an NI number before they can work in the UK, exactly the same as a UK citizen.
You still haven't explained why they would or could refuse to give you one, as you have the RIGHT to live and work there, unlike a visa or work permit system where they could refuse you, say on the grounds that they have a cap on immigration and don't want anymore.
If after 3 months you have no job and therefore they don't want/need any more and you have no means of support or healthcare provision then they can deport you now even if you are a member of the EU. What is the difference?
No they cant! Stop lying! "Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled."
But the difference between now and after we leave, is now you can be offered a job and take it up and the government can't stop you because you have the RIGHT to work there. In the future, you could apply for a job and be offered it, yet be denied a work permit/visa because the government has reached an immigration target, or because they have enough people for that industry etc. Can you really not see the difference there?
jeez. Read it again. If after 3 months when you have to register and you have no job no means of support and no access to healthcare you can be expelled. Or do you think there is something you're entitled to? What country is going to allow a foreign vagrant to walk the streets with no access to healthcare?
Yes of course I can see the difference which is why I said at the moment it is pretty much the same not the same. And if say Spain suddenly decided that they don't want somebody who has been done for speeding or dropping litter etc then they can simply say no they don't want you and your RIGHT has gone. "It says "THEY CANNOT BE EXPELLED"! To say that an EU citizen can be deported for littering is quite a claim. Are you going to provide any proof of this? | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again.
anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?
Now, you have the RIGHT, to work in Spain, or any other EU country, you don't need a visa, or a work permit etc. When we leave the EU, you will have to try and get one. This will probably have an associated cost, it will have bureaucracy and paperwork, and in the end you could still be refused, because you will no longer have the RIGHT to work there.
so you think that at the moment there is no bureaucracy, paperwork or cost and that you cannot be refused? Try it
The visa/work permit system is pretty much in place already in most EU countries, just under another name. Not a lot will change
At the moment a UK citizen cannot be treated any differently to a Spanish citizen in Spain, so anything you have to do, they have to do too.
I have never worked in Spain, so are you saying before a Spanish citizen can take up a job, they have to apply for permission from the government, and the government can refuse it, leaving that person unemployed, even though they have an offer of employment?
so a Spanish person has to turn up and register with passport and job details etc at the Oficina de Extranjeros or local police station and pay a fee before they can start work do they?
You didn't answer my question.
Here is what the EU says:
Workers’ rights of movement and residence
Directive 2004/38/EC introduces EU citizenship as the basic status for nationals of the Member States when they exercise their right to move and reside freely on EU territory. For the first three months, every EU citizen has the right to reside on the territory of another EU country without any conditions or formalities. For longer periods, the host Member State may require a citizen to register his or her presence within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.
Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence.
Directive 2004/38/EC amended Regulation 1612/68/EEC with regard to family reunification and extended the definition of ‘family member’ (formerly limited to spouse, descendants aged under 21 or dependent children, and dependent ascendants) to include registered partners if the host Member State’s legislation considers a registered partnership to be the equivalent of a marriage. Irrespective of their nationality, these family members have the right to reside in the same country as the worker.
2.Employment
As regards working and employment conditions in the territory of the host Member State, workers who are nationals of another Member State cannot be treated differently from national workers because of their nationality. This applies in particular to matters pertaining to recruitment, dismissal and remuneration, and to occupational training and retraining measures. Nationals of one Member State working in another have the same social and tax benefits and access to housing as national workers, and are entitled to equal treatment in respect of the exercise of trade union rights.
The right to remain in the host country after stopping work is now laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled. After acquiring the right of permanent residence in the host Member State, EU citizens are no longer subject to any conditions (such as sufficient financial means) but can, if necessary, rely on social assistance in the host Member State in the same way as its nationals can.
If you think you are not being treated in accordance with your treaty rights, then take them to court.
did you read any of that? Just read the first 2 paragraphs again and comprehend it!
Yes, I have read it, and understood it. You have yet again, failed to answer the question I posed to you.
You obviously haven't understood it because it backs up my arguement.
Your question? No a Spanish person won't be refused a job by the government if they have a job offer. Why would a non EU national be turned down if they have a job offer and meet the criteria?
Now answer my question, does a Spanish person have to register at the Oficina de Extranjeros or a local police station with their passport and job offer etc and pay a fee before they start work?
You said a work permit/visa system is already in place. Yet again I have proved you wrong. There is no work permit/visa system in place for EU citizens.
no I did not, I said as good as. What the fuck do you think you have to go to the foreign office or police station and pay a fee for? Fun? What difference is that to getting a visa?
Well as you only have to go there 3 months after you started the job, how exactly does that stop you from getting a job?
no, you can live there for 3 months before you HAVE to do that. You HAVE to do that BEFORE you start any job to get your NIE (national insurance) number
Other EU citizens have to get an NI number before they can work in the UK, exactly the same as a UK citizen.
You still haven't explained why they would or could refuse to give you one, as you have the RIGHT to live and work there, unlike a visa or work permit system where they could refuse you, say on the grounds that they have a cap on immigration and don't want anymore.
If after 3 months you have no job and therefore they don't want/need any more and you have no means of support or healthcare provision then they can deport you now even if you are a member of the EU. What is the difference?
No they cant! Stop lying! "Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled."
But the difference between now and after we leave, is now you can be offered a job and take it up and the government can't stop you because you have the RIGHT to work there. In the future, you could apply for a job and be offered it, yet be denied a work permit/visa because the government has reached an immigration target, or because they have enough people for that industry etc. Can you really not see the difference there?
jeez. Read it again. If after 3 months when you have to register and you have no job no means of support and no access to healthcare you can be expelled. Or do you think there is something you're entitled to? What country is going to allow a foreign vagrant to walk the streets with no access to healthcare?
Yes of course I can see the difference which is why I said at the moment it is pretty much the same not the same. And if say Spain suddenly decided that they don't want somebody who has been done for speeding or dropping litter etc then they can simply say no they don't want you and your RIGHT has gone.
It says "THEY CANNOT BE EXPELLED"!
To say that an EU citizen can be deported for littering is quite a claim. Are you going to provide any proof of this? "Read it again!! Case c-292/89 refers to someone who has worked already then STOPPED working. I did not say they could be deported for littering did I? The point I was trying to make was that the host country can make up rules now to bar you from working if they wish to, that is the point of producing your passport when you first register to live or work | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again.
anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?
Now, you have the RIGHT, to work in Spain, or any other EU country, you don't need a visa, or a work permit etc. When we leave the EU, you will have to try and get one. This will probably have an associated cost, it will have bureaucracy and paperwork, and in the end you could still be refused, because you will no longer have the RIGHT to work there.
so you think that at the moment there is no bureaucracy, paperwork or cost and that you cannot be refused? Try it
The visa/work permit system is pretty much in place already in most EU countries, just under another name. Not a lot will change
At the moment a UK citizen cannot be treated any differently to a Spanish citizen in Spain, so anything you have to do, they have to do too.
I have never worked in Spain, so are you saying before a Spanish citizen can take up a job, they have to apply for permission from the government, and the government can refuse it, leaving that person unemployed, even though they have an offer of employment?
so a Spanish person has to turn up and register with passport and job details etc at the Oficina de Extranjeros or local police station and pay a fee before they can start work do they?
You didn't answer my question.
Here is what the EU says:
Workers’ rights of movement and residence
Directive 2004/38/EC introduces EU citizenship as the basic status for nationals of the Member States when they exercise their right to move and reside freely on EU territory. For the first three months, every EU citizen has the right to reside on the territory of another EU country without any conditions or formalities. For longer periods, the host Member State may require a citizen to register his or her presence within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.
Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence.
Directive 2004/38/EC amended Regulation 1612/68/EEC with regard to family reunification and extended the definition of ‘family member’ (formerly limited to spouse, descendants aged under 21 or dependent children, and dependent ascendants) to include registered partners if the host Member State’s legislation considers a registered partnership to be the equivalent of a marriage. Irrespective of their nationality, these family members have the right to reside in the same country as the worker.
2.Employment
As regards working and employment conditions in the territory of the host Member State, workers who are nationals of another Member State cannot be treated differently from national workers because of their nationality. This applies in particular to matters pertaining to recruitment, dismissal and remuneration, and to occupational training and retraining measures. Nationals of one Member State working in another have the same social and tax benefits and access to housing as national workers, and are entitled to equal treatment in respect of the exercise of trade union rights.
The right to remain in the host country after stopping work is now laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled. After acquiring the right of permanent residence in the host Member State, EU citizens are no longer subject to any conditions (such as sufficient financial means) but can, if necessary, rely on social assistance in the host Member State in the same way as its nationals can.
If you think you are not being treated in accordance with your treaty rights, then take them to court.
did you read any of that? Just read the first 2 paragraphs again and comprehend it!
Yes, I have read it, and understood it. You have yet again, failed to answer the question I posed to you.
You obviously haven't understood it because it backs up my arguement.
Your question? No a Spanish person won't be refused a job by the government if they have a job offer. Why would a non EU national be turned down if they have a job offer and meet the criteria?
Now answer my question, does a Spanish person have to register at the Oficina de Extranjeros or a local police station with their passport and job offer etc and pay a fee before they start work?
You said a work permit/visa system is already in place. Yet again I have proved you wrong. There is no work permit/visa system in place for EU citizens.
no I did not, I said as good as. What the fuck do you think you have to go to the foreign office or police station and pay a fee for? Fun? What difference is that to getting a visa?
Well as you only have to go there 3 months after you started the job, how exactly does that stop you from getting a job?
no, you can live there for 3 months before you HAVE to do that. You HAVE to do that BEFORE you start any job to get your NIE (national insurance) number
Other EU citizens have to get an NI number before they can work in the UK, exactly the same as a UK citizen.
You still haven't explained why they would or could refuse to give you one, as you have the RIGHT to live and work there, unlike a visa or work permit system where they could refuse you, say on the grounds that they have a cap on immigration and don't want anymore.
If after 3 months you have no job and therefore they don't want/need any more and you have no means of support or healthcare provision then they can deport you now even if you are a member of the EU. What is the difference?
No they cant! Stop lying! "Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled."
But the difference between now and after we leave, is now you can be offered a job and take it up and the government can't stop you because you have the RIGHT to work there. In the future, you could apply for a job and be offered it, yet be denied a work permit/visa because the government has reached an immigration target, or because they have enough people for that industry etc. Can you really not see the difference there?
jeez. Read it again. If after 3 months when you have to register and you have no job no means of support and no access to healthcare you can be expelled. Or do you think there is something you're entitled to? What country is going to allow a foreign vagrant to walk the streets with no access to healthcare?
Yes of course I can see the difference which is why I said at the moment it is pretty much the same not the same. And if say Spain suddenly decided that they don't want somebody who has been done for speeding or dropping litter etc then they can simply say no they don't want you and your RIGHT has gone.
It says "THEY CANNOT BE EXPELLED"!
To say that an EU citizen can be deported for littering is quite a claim. Are you going to provide any proof of this?
Read it again!! Case c-292/89 refers to someone who has worked already then STOPPED working. I did not say they could be deported for littering did I? The point I was trying to make was that the host country can make up rules now to bar you from working if they wish to, that is the point of producing your passport when you first register to live or work"The way I read what you said, according to you, if an EU citizen speeds or litters, they will lose their EU treaty rights to live and work in Spain and will be deported. | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again.
anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?
Now, you have the RIGHT, to work in Spain, or any other EU country, you don't need a visa, or a work permit etc. When we leave the EU, you will have to try and get one. This will probably have an associated cost, it will have bureaucracy and paperwork, and in the end you could still be refused, because you will no longer have the RIGHT to work there.
so you think that at the moment there is no bureaucracy, paperwork or cost and that you cannot be refused? Try it
The visa/work permit system is pretty much in place already in most EU countries, just under another name. Not a lot will change
At the moment a UK citizen cannot be treated any differently to a Spanish citizen in Spain, so anything you have to do, they have to do too.
I have never worked in Spain, so are you saying before a Spanish citizen can take up a job, they have to apply for permission from the government, and the government can refuse it, leaving that person unemployed, even though they have an offer of employment?
so a Spanish person has to turn up and register with passport and job details etc at the Oficina de Extranjeros or local police station and pay a fee before they can start work do they?
You didn't answer my question.
Here is what the EU says:
Workers’ rights of movement and residence
Directive 2004/38/EC introduces EU citizenship as the basic status for nationals of the Member States when they exercise their right to move and reside freely on EU territory. For the first three months, every EU citizen has the right to reside on the territory of another EU country without any conditions or formalities. For longer periods, the host Member State may require a citizen to register his or her presence within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.
Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence.
Directive 2004/38/EC amended Regulation 1612/68/EEC with regard to family reunification and extended the definition of ‘family member’ (formerly limited to spouse, descendants aged under 21 or dependent children, and dependent ascendants) to include registered partners if the host Member State’s legislation considers a registered partnership to be the equivalent of a marriage. Irrespective of their nationality, these family members have the right to reside in the same country as the worker.
2.Employment
As regards working and employment conditions in the territory of the host Member State, workers who are nationals of another Member State cannot be treated differently from national workers because of their nationality. This applies in particular to matters pertaining to recruitment, dismissal and remuneration, and to occupational training and retraining measures. Nationals of one Member State working in another have the same social and tax benefits and access to housing as national workers, and are entitled to equal treatment in respect of the exercise of trade union rights.
The right to remain in the host country after stopping work is now laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled. After acquiring the right of permanent residence in the host Member State, EU citizens are no longer subject to any conditions (such as sufficient financial means) but can, if necessary, rely on social assistance in the host Member State in the same way as its nationals can.
If you think you are not being treated in accordance with your treaty rights, then take them to court.
did you read any of that? Just read the first 2 paragraphs again and comprehend it!
Yes, I have read it, and understood it. You have yet again, failed to answer the question I posed to you.
You obviously haven't understood it because it backs up my arguement.
Your question? No a Spanish person won't be refused a job by the government if they have a job offer. Why would a non EU national be turned down if they have a job offer and meet the criteria?
Now answer my question, does a Spanish person have to register at the Oficina de Extranjeros or a local police station with their passport and job offer etc and pay a fee before they start work?
You said a work permit/visa system is already in place. Yet again I have proved you wrong. There is no work permit/visa system in place for EU citizens.
no I did not, I said as good as. What the fuck do you think you have to go to the foreign office or police station and pay a fee for? Fun? What difference is that to getting a visa?
Well as you only have to go there 3 months after you started the job, how exactly does that stop you from getting a job?
no, you can live there for 3 months before you HAVE to do that. You HAVE to do that BEFORE you start any job to get your NIE (national insurance) number
Other EU citizens have to get an NI number before they can work in the UK, exactly the same as a UK citizen.
You still haven't explained why they would or could refuse to give you one, as you have the RIGHT to live and work there, unlike a visa or work permit system where they could refuse you, say on the grounds that they have a cap on immigration and don't want anymore.
If after 3 months you have no job and therefore they don't want/need any more and you have no means of support or healthcare provision then they can deport you now even if you are a member of the EU. What is the difference?
No they cant! Stop lying! "Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled."
But the difference between now and after we leave, is now you can be offered a job and take it up and the government can't stop you because you have the RIGHT to work there. In the future, you could apply for a job and be offered it, yet be denied a work permit/visa because the government has reached an immigration target, or because they have enough people for that industry etc. Can you really not see the difference there?
jeez. Read it again. If after 3 months when you have to register and you have no job no means of support and no access to healthcare you can be expelled. Or do you think there is something you're entitled to? What country is going to allow a foreign vagrant to walk the streets with no access to healthcare?
Yes of course I can see the difference which is why I said at the moment it is pretty much the same not the same. And if say Spain suddenly decided that they don't want somebody who has been done for speeding or dropping litter etc then they can simply say no they don't want you and your RIGHT has gone.
It says "THEY CANNOT BE EXPELLED"!
To say that an EU citizen can be deported for littering is quite a claim. Are you going to provide any proof of this?
Read it again!! Case c-292/89 refers to someone who has worked already then STOPPED working. I did not say they could be deported for littering did I? The point I was trying to make was that the host country can make up rules now to bar you from working if they wish to, that is the point of producing your passport when you first register to live or work
The way I read what you said, according to you, if an EU citizen speeds or litters, they will lose their EU treaty rights to live and work in Spain and will be deported. "Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that working abroad is not as easy and straight forward as you seem to think and the process of getting a work permit/visa would be no more difficult. Now if a country decides that they have enough workers for your chosen job and they turn you down, so what? What is wrong with that? Have you got every job you ever applied for? Did you say you have to give me a job because its my 'right'? Of course not. So why should governments/countries be any different? | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again.
anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?
Now, you have the RIGHT, to work in Spain, or any other EU country, you don't need a visa, or a work permit etc. When we leave the EU, you will have to try and get one. This will probably have an associated cost, it will have bureaucracy and paperwork, and in the end you could still be refused, because you will no longer have the RIGHT to work there.
so you think that at the moment there is no bureaucracy, paperwork or cost and that you cannot be refused? Try it
The visa/work permit system is pretty much in place already in most EU countries, just under another name. Not a lot will change
At the moment a UK citizen cannot be treated any differently to a Spanish citizen in Spain, so anything you have to do, they have to do too.
I have never worked in Spain, so are you saying before a Spanish citizen can take up a job, they have to apply for permission from the government, and the government can refuse it, leaving that person unemployed, even though they have an offer of employment?
so a Spanish person has to turn up and register with passport and job details etc at the Oficina de Extranjeros or local police station and pay a fee before they can start work do they?
You didn't answer my question.
Here is what the EU says:
Workers’ rights of movement and residence
Directive 2004/38/EC introduces EU citizenship as the basic status for nationals of the Member States when they exercise their right to move and reside freely on EU territory. For the first three months, every EU citizen has the right to reside on the territory of another EU country without any conditions or formalities. For longer periods, the host Member State may require a citizen to register his or her presence within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.
Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence.
Directive 2004/38/EC amended Regulation 1612/68/EEC with regard to family reunification and extended the definition of ‘family member’ (formerly limited to spouse, descendants aged under 21 or dependent children, and dependent ascendants) to include registered partners if the host Member State’s legislation considers a registered partnership to be the equivalent of a marriage. Irrespective of their nationality, these family members have the right to reside in the same country as the worker.
2.Employment
As regards working and employment conditions in the territory of the host Member State, workers who are nationals of another Member State cannot be treated differently from national workers because of their nationality. This applies in particular to matters pertaining to recruitment, dismissal and remuneration, and to occupational training and retraining measures. Nationals of one Member State working in another have the same social and tax benefits and access to housing as national workers, and are entitled to equal treatment in respect of the exercise of trade union rights.
The right to remain in the host country after stopping work is now laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled. After acquiring the right of permanent residence in the host Member State, EU citizens are no longer subject to any conditions (such as sufficient financial means) but can, if necessary, rely on social assistance in the host Member State in the same way as its nationals can.
If you think you are not being treated in accordance with your treaty rights, then take them to court.
did you read any of that? Just read the first 2 paragraphs again and comprehend it!
Yes, I have read it, and understood it. You have yet again, failed to answer the question I posed to you.
You obviously haven't understood it because it backs up my arguement.
Your question? No a Spanish person won't be refused a job by the government if they have a job offer. Why would a non EU national be turned down if they have a job offer and meet the criteria?
Now answer my question, does a Spanish person have to register at the Oficina de Extranjeros or a local police station with their passport and job offer etc and pay a fee before they start work?
You said a work permit/visa system is already in place. Yet again I have proved you wrong. There is no work permit/visa system in place for EU citizens.
no I did not, I said as good as. What the fuck do you think you have to go to the foreign office or police station and pay a fee for? Fun? What difference is that to getting a visa?
Well as you only have to go there 3 months after you started the job, how exactly does that stop you from getting a job?
no, you can live there for 3 months before you HAVE to do that. You HAVE to do that BEFORE you start any job to get your NIE (national insurance) number
Other EU citizens have to get an NI number before they can work in the UK, exactly the same as a UK citizen.
You still haven't explained why they would or could refuse to give you one, as you have the RIGHT to live and work there, unlike a visa or work permit system where they could refuse you, say on the grounds that they have a cap on immigration and don't want anymore.
If after 3 months you have no job and therefore they don't want/need any more and you have no means of support or healthcare provision then they can deport you now even if you are a member of the EU. What is the difference?
No they cant! Stop lying! "Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled."
But the difference between now and after we leave, is now you can be offered a job and take it up and the government can't stop you because you have the RIGHT to work there. In the future, you could apply for a job and be offered it, yet be denied a work permit/visa because the government has reached an immigration target, or because they have enough people for that industry etc. Can you really not see the difference there?
jeez. Read it again. If after 3 months when you have to register and you have no job no means of support and no access to healthcare you can be expelled. Or do you think there is something you're entitled to? What country is going to allow a foreign vagrant to walk the streets with no access to healthcare?
Yes of course I can see the difference which is why I said at the moment it is pretty much the same not the same. And if say Spain suddenly decided that they don't want somebody who has been done for speeding or dropping litter etc then they can simply say no they don't want you and your RIGHT has gone.
It says "THEY CANNOT BE EXPELLED"!
To say that an EU citizen can be deported for littering is quite a claim. Are you going to provide any proof of this?
Read it again!! Case c-292/89 refers to someone who has worked already then STOPPED working. I did not say they could be deported for littering did I? The point I was trying to make was that the host country can make up rules now to bar you from working if they wish to, that is the point of producing your passport when you first register to live or work
The way I read what you said, according to you, if an EU citizen speeds or litters, they will lose their EU treaty rights to live and work in Spain and will be deported.
Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that working abroad is not as easy and straight forward as you seem to think and the process of getting a work permit/visa would be no more difficult. Now if a country decides that they have enough workers for your chosen job and they turn you down, so what? What is wrong with that? Have you got every job you ever applied for? Did you say you have to give me a job because its my 'right'? Of course not. So why should governments/countries be any different?"So you admit that speeding or littering isn’t a reason to get deported then? The point that I have proved is that there is no visa/work permit system in place, and that it would be detrimental to have one. Also as opposed to the current system, a visa/work permit system would not give you the right to work there. You could be the perfect candidate for a job, it could be your dream job, you want it, and they want to give it to you, but the government says no. Do you really look forward to government intervention into an area of your life that they have not previously had power over? Obviously you are happy for this to happen in the EU, so how about if it happened in the UK, would you like it if Scotland, Wales and NI had power over immigration policy? Would you like to have to apply for permission from the Welsh Assembly to take up a job in Cardiff for example, knowing that they might say “sorry, we have just taken two Scotsmen and an Irishman today, so you can’t take up that job you have been offered” If its OK for the constituent countries of the UK, how about if individual regions or counties had that same power? I live in the South East, a very popular part of the country to live. We have good schools, good hospitals etc. but a housing crisis because so many people want to live here. Should there be limits on who can move here? Should we reject people from say Newcastle, or Leeds, or Bristol? | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again.
anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?
Now, you have the RIGHT, to work in Spain, or any other EU country, you don't need a visa, or a work permit etc. When we leave the EU, you will have to try and get one. This will probably have an associated cost, it will have bureaucracy and paperwork, and in the end you could still be refused, because you will no longer have the RIGHT to work there.
so you think that at the moment there is no bureaucracy, paperwork or cost and that you cannot be refused? Try it
The visa/work permit system is pretty much in place already in most EU countries, just under another name. Not a lot will change
At the moment a UK citizen cannot be treated any differently to a Spanish citizen in Spain, so anything you have to do, they have to do too.
I have never worked in Spain, so are you saying before a Spanish citizen can take up a job, they have to apply for permission from the government, and the government can refuse it, leaving that person unemployed, even though they have an offer of employment?
so a Spanish person has to turn up and register with passport and job details etc at the Oficina de Extranjeros or local police station and pay a fee before they can start work do they?
You didn't answer my question.
Here is what the EU says:
Workers’ rights of movement and residence
Directive 2004/38/EC introduces EU citizenship as the basic status for nationals of the Member States when they exercise their right to move and reside freely on EU territory. For the first three months, every EU citizen has the right to reside on the territory of another EU country without any conditions or formalities. For longer periods, the host Member State may require a citizen to register his or her presence within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.
Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence.
Directive 2004/38/EC amended Regulation 1612/68/EEC with regard to family reunification and extended the definition of ‘family member’ (formerly limited to spouse, descendants aged under 21 or dependent children, and dependent ascendants) to include registered partners if the host Member State’s legislation considers a registered partnership to be the equivalent of a marriage. Irrespective of their nationality, these family members have the right to reside in the same country as the worker.
2.Employment
As regards working and employment conditions in the territory of the host Member State, workers who are nationals of another Member State cannot be treated differently from national workers because of their nationality. This applies in particular to matters pertaining to recruitment, dismissal and remuneration, and to occupational training and retraining measures. Nationals of one Member State working in another have the same social and tax benefits and access to housing as national workers, and are entitled to equal treatment in respect of the exercise of trade union rights.
The right to remain in the host country after stopping work is now laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled. After acquiring the right of permanent residence in the host Member State, EU citizens are no longer subject to any conditions (such as sufficient financial means) but can, if necessary, rely on social assistance in the host Member State in the same way as its nationals can.
If you think you are not being treated in accordance with your treaty rights, then take them to court.
did you read any of that? Just read the first 2 paragraphs again and comprehend it!
Yes, I have read it, and understood it. You have yet again, failed to answer the question I posed to you.
You obviously haven't understood it because it backs up my arguement.
Your question? No a Spanish person won't be refused a job by the government if they have a job offer. Why would a non EU national be turned down if they have a job offer and meet the criteria?
Now answer my question, does a Spanish person have to register at the Oficina de Extranjeros or a local police station with their passport and job offer etc and pay a fee before they start work?
You said a work permit/visa system is already in place. Yet again I have proved you wrong. There is no work permit/visa system in place for EU citizens.
no I did not, I said as good as. What the fuck do you think you have to go to the foreign office or police station and pay a fee for? Fun? What difference is that to getting a visa?
Well as you only have to go there 3 months after you started the job, how exactly does that stop you from getting a job?
no, you can live there for 3 months before you HAVE to do that. You HAVE to do that BEFORE you start any job to get your NIE (national insurance) number
Other EU citizens have to get an NI number before they can work in the UK, exactly the same as a UK citizen.
You still haven't explained why they would or could refuse to give you one, as you have the RIGHT to live and work there, unlike a visa or work permit system where they could refuse you, say on the grounds that they have a cap on immigration and don't want anymore.
If after 3 months you have no job and therefore they don't want/need any more and you have no means of support or healthcare provision then they can deport you now even if you are a member of the EU. What is the difference?
No they cant! Stop lying! "Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled."
But the difference between now and after we leave, is now you can be offered a job and take it up and the government can't stop you because you have the RIGHT to work there. In the future, you could apply for a job and be offered it, yet be denied a work permit/visa because the government has reached an immigration target, or because they have enough people for that industry etc. Can you really not see the difference there?
jeez. Read it again. If after 3 months when you have to register and you have no job no means of support and no access to healthcare you can be expelled. Or do you think there is something you're entitled to? What country is going to allow a foreign vagrant to walk the streets with no access to healthcare?
Yes of course I can see the difference which is why I said at the moment it is pretty much the same not the same. And if say Spain suddenly decided that they don't want somebody who has been done for speeding or dropping litter etc then they can simply say no they don't want you and your RIGHT has gone.
It says "THEY CANNOT BE EXPELLED"!
To say that an EU citizen can be deported for littering is quite a claim. Are you going to provide any proof of this?
Read it again!! Case c-292/89 refers to someone who has worked already then STOPPED working. I did not say they could be deported for littering did I? The point I was trying to make was that the host country can make up rules now to bar you from working if they wish to, that is the point of producing your passport when you first register to live or work
The way I read what you said, according to you, if an EU citizen speeds or litters, they will lose their EU treaty rights to live and work in Spain and will be deported.
Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that working abroad is not as easy and straight forward as you seem to think and the process of getting a work permit/visa would be no more difficult. Now if a country decides that they have enough workers for your chosen job and they turn you down, so what? What is wrong with that? Have you got every job you ever applied for? Did you say you have to give me a job because its my 'right'? Of course not. So why should governments/countries be any different?
So you admit that speeding or littering isn’t a reason to get deported then? The point that I have proved is that there is no visa/work permit system in place, and that it would be detrimental to have one. Also as opposed to the current system, a visa/work permit system would not give you the right to work there. You could be the perfect candidate for a job, it could be your dream job, you want it, and they want to give it to you, but the government says no. Do you really look forward to government intervention into an area of your life that they have not previously had power over?
Obviously you are happy for this to happen in the EU, so how about if it happened in the UK, would you like it if Scotland, Wales and NI had power over immigration policy? Would you like to have to apply for permission from the Welsh Assembly to take up a job in Cardiff for example, knowing that they might say “sorry, we have just taken two Scotsmen and an Irishman today, so you can’t take up that job you have been offered”
If its OK for the constituent countries of the UK, how about if individual regions or counties had that same power? I live in the South East, a very popular part of the country to live. We have good schools, good hospitals etc. but a housing crisis because so many people want to live here. Should there be limits on who can move here? Should we reject people from say Newcastle, or Leeds, or Bristol?
"Comedy gold as usual | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again.
anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?
Now, you have the RIGHT, to work in Spain, or any other EU country, you don't need a visa, or a work permit etc. When we leave the EU, you will have to try and get one. This will probably have an associated cost, it will have bureaucracy and paperwork, and in the end you could still be refused, because you will no longer have the RIGHT to work there.
so you think that at the moment there is no bureaucracy, paperwork or cost and that you cannot be refused? Try it
The visa/work permit system is pretty much in place already in most EU countries, just under another name. Not a lot will change
At the moment a UK citizen cannot be treated any differently to a Spanish citizen in Spain, so anything you have to do, they have to do too.
I have never worked in Spain, so are you saying before a Spanish citizen can take up a job, they have to apply for permission from the government, and the government can refuse it, leaving that person unemployed, even though they have an offer of employment?
so a Spanish person has to turn up and register with passport and job details etc at the Oficina de Extranjeros or local police station and pay a fee before they can start work do they?
You didn't answer my question.
Here is what the EU says:
Workers’ rights of movement and residence
Directive 2004/38/EC introduces EU citizenship as the basic status for nationals of the Member States when they exercise their right to move and reside freely on EU territory. For the first three months, every EU citizen has the right to reside on the territory of another EU country without any conditions or formalities. For longer periods, the host Member State may require a citizen to register his or her presence within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.
Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence.
Directive 2004/38/EC amended Regulation 1612/68/EEC with regard to family reunification and extended the definition of ‘family member’ (formerly limited to spouse, descendants aged under 21 or dependent children, and dependent ascendants) to include registered partners if the host Member State’s legislation considers a registered partnership to be the equivalent of a marriage. Irrespective of their nationality, these family members have the right to reside in the same country as the worker.
2.Employment
As regards working and employment conditions in the territory of the host Member State, workers who are nationals of another Member State cannot be treated differently from national workers because of their nationality. This applies in particular to matters pertaining to recruitment, dismissal and remuneration, and to occupational training and retraining measures. Nationals of one Member State working in another have the same social and tax benefits and access to housing as national workers, and are entitled to equal treatment in respect of the exercise of trade union rights.
The right to remain in the host country after stopping work is now laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled. After acquiring the right of permanent residence in the host Member State, EU citizens are no longer subject to any conditions (such as sufficient financial means) but can, if necessary, rely on social assistance in the host Member State in the same way as its nationals can.
If you think you are not being treated in accordance with your treaty rights, then take them to court.
did you read any of that? Just read the first 2 paragraphs again and comprehend it!
Yes, I have read it, and understood it. You have yet again, failed to answer the question I posed to you.
You obviously haven't understood it because it backs up my arguement.
Your question? No a Spanish person won't be refused a job by the government if they have a job offer. Why would a non EU national be turned down if they have a job offer and meet the criteria?
Now answer my question, does a Spanish person have to register at the Oficina de Extranjeros or a local police station with their passport and job offer etc and pay a fee before they start work?
You said a work permit/visa system is already in place. Yet again I have proved you wrong. There is no work permit/visa system in place for EU citizens.
no I did not, I said as good as. What the fuck do you think you have to go to the foreign office or police station and pay a fee for? Fun? What difference is that to getting a visa?
Well as you only have to go there 3 months after you started the job, how exactly does that stop you from getting a job?
no, you can live there for 3 months before you HAVE to do that. You HAVE to do that BEFORE you start any job to get your NIE (national insurance) number
Other EU citizens have to get an NI number before they can work in the UK, exactly the same as a UK citizen.
You still haven't explained why they would or could refuse to give you one, as you have the RIGHT to live and work there, unlike a visa or work permit system where they could refuse you, say on the grounds that they have a cap on immigration and don't want anymore.
If after 3 months you have no job and therefore they don't want/need any more and you have no means of support or healthcare provision then they can deport you now even if you are a member of the EU. What is the difference?
No they cant! Stop lying! "Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled."
But the difference between now and after we leave, is now you can be offered a job and take it up and the government can't stop you because you have the RIGHT to work there. In the future, you could apply for a job and be offered it, yet be denied a work permit/visa because the government has reached an immigration target, or because they have enough people for that industry etc. Can you really not see the difference there?
jeez. Read it again. If after 3 months when you have to register and you have no job no means of support and no access to healthcare you can be expelled. Or do you think there is something you're entitled to? What country is going to allow a foreign vagrant to walk the streets with no access to healthcare?
Yes of course I can see the difference which is why I said at the moment it is pretty much the same not the same. And if say Spain suddenly decided that they don't want somebody who has been done for speeding or dropping litter etc then they can simply say no they don't want you and your RIGHT has gone.
It says "THEY CANNOT BE EXPELLED"!
To say that an EU citizen can be deported for littering is quite a claim. Are you going to provide any proof of this?
Read it again!! Case c-292/89 refers to someone who has worked already then STOPPED working. I did not say they could be deported for littering did I? The point I was trying to make was that the host country can make up rules now to bar you from working if they wish to, that is the point of producing your passport when you first register to live or work
The way I read what you said, according to you, if an EU citizen speeds or litters, they will lose their EU treaty rights to live and work in Spain and will be deported.
Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that working abroad is not as easy and straight forward as you seem to think and the process of getting a work permit/visa would be no more difficult. Now if a country decides that they have enough workers for your chosen job and they turn you down, so what? What is wrong with that? Have you got every job you ever applied for? Did you say you have to give me a job because its my 'right'? Of course not. So why should governments/countries be any different?
So you admit that speeding or littering isn’t a reason to get deported then? The point that I have proved is that there is no visa/work permit system in place, and that it would be detrimental to have one. Also as opposed to the current system, a visa/work permit system would not give you the right to work there. You could be the perfect candidate for a job, it could be your dream job, you want it, and they want to give it to you, but the government says no. Do you really look forward to government intervention into an area of your life that they have not previously had power over?
Obviously you are happy for this to happen in the EU, so how about if it happened in the UK, would you like it if Scotland, Wales and NI had power over immigration policy? Would you like to have to apply for permission from the Welsh Assembly to take up a job in Cardiff for example, knowing that they might say “sorry, we have just taken two Scotsmen and an Irishman today, so you can’t take up that job you have been offered”
If its OK for the constituent countries of the UK, how about if individual regions or counties had that same power? I live in the South East, a very popular part of the country to live. We have good schools, good hospitals etc. but a housing crisis because so many people want to live here. Should there be limits on who can move here? Should we reject people from say Newcastle, or Leeds, or Bristol?
Comedy gold as usual
"You running and hiding with Boris and Farage as usual once you have been proven to by lying. Did you really think people would believe you that Spain deports people for littering?! | |||
"I find it funny when everyone wants to call me a liar and say that I am wrong the posts come in thick and fast, but now I am been proved right, no one seems to want to comment. Hotlovefun42 has failed to produce a single quote from a world leader supporting Brexit, and still denies that the British military have one stars and two stars even though it says so on the British Army website!
Surreysensual has also been proved wrong about one stars etc. As were Hot Couple NW. Surreysensual was so upset they couldn't bring themselves to even look at the proof, instead relying on their memory, presumably from when they Served, but if the British military have been using it since they joined NATO in 1949, it must have been quite a while ago that they served!
At least _ouple1000 at least admitted they were wrong, but by that stage I had obviously upset them so much that they started a thread in my honour. They also tried to caveat that although it is a term used by the Army, and is on their public facing website, it is somehow kept a secret from soldiers!
JandS66 have also disappeared after accusing me of using a 2015 newspaper article to talk about post-Brexit hate crimes. They also haven't been around to explain their unusal taste in signature they are now putting at the end of their posts. Like Couple1000, if they are really going to this much trouble I can only assume that my arguments are cutting a little too close to the bone for their comfort. Perhaps they are trying to emulate their heroes Boris and Farage and disappearing when there are now questions to answer?
I can't remember the last time you answered any question of mine
I answer your questions, then you ask the same question again and again and again.
anyone who follows these threads will know that is bollocks. Answer the one on this thread for a start then answer the one on your rights to live and work abroad and what difference leaving the EU will actually make. Are you related to Bonnie Langford by the way?
Now, you have the RIGHT, to work in Spain, or any other EU country, you don't need a visa, or a work permit etc. When we leave the EU, you will have to try and get one. This will probably have an associated cost, it will have bureaucracy and paperwork, and in the end you could still be refused, because you will no longer have the RIGHT to work there.
so you think that at the moment there is no bureaucracy, paperwork or cost and that you cannot be refused? Try it
The visa/work permit system is pretty much in place already in most EU countries, just under another name. Not a lot will change
At the moment a UK citizen cannot be treated any differently to a Spanish citizen in Spain, so anything you have to do, they have to do too.
I have never worked in Spain, so are you saying before a Spanish citizen can take up a job, they have to apply for permission from the government, and the government can refuse it, leaving that person unemployed, even though they have an offer of employment?
so a Spanish person has to turn up and register with passport and job details etc at the Oficina de Extranjeros or local police station and pay a fee before they can start work do they?
You didn't answer my question.
Here is what the EU says:
Workers’ rights of movement and residence
Directive 2004/38/EC introduces EU citizenship as the basic status for nationals of the Member States when they exercise their right to move and reside freely on EU territory. For the first three months, every EU citizen has the right to reside on the territory of another EU country without any conditions or formalities. For longer periods, the host Member State may require a citizen to register his or her presence within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.
Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence.
Directive 2004/38/EC amended Regulation 1612/68/EEC with regard to family reunification and extended the definition of ‘family member’ (formerly limited to spouse, descendants aged under 21 or dependent children, and dependent ascendants) to include registered partners if the host Member State’s legislation considers a registered partnership to be the equivalent of a marriage. Irrespective of their nationality, these family members have the right to reside in the same country as the worker.
2.Employment
As regards working and employment conditions in the territory of the host Member State, workers who are nationals of another Member State cannot be treated differently from national workers because of their nationality. This applies in particular to matters pertaining to recruitment, dismissal and remuneration, and to occupational training and retraining measures. Nationals of one Member State working in another have the same social and tax benefits and access to housing as national workers, and are entitled to equal treatment in respect of the exercise of trade union rights.
The right to remain in the host country after stopping work is now laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled. After acquiring the right of permanent residence in the host Member State, EU citizens are no longer subject to any conditions (such as sufficient financial means) but can, if necessary, rely on social assistance in the host Member State in the same way as its nationals can.
If you think you are not being treated in accordance with your treaty rights, then take them to court.
did you read any of that? Just read the first 2 paragraphs again and comprehend it!
Yes, I have read it, and understood it. You have yet again, failed to answer the question I posed to you.
You obviously haven't understood it because it backs up my arguement.
Your question? No a Spanish person won't be refused a job by the government if they have a job offer. Why would a non EU national be turned down if they have a job offer and meet the criteria?
Now answer my question, does a Spanish person have to register at the Oficina de Extranjeros or a local police station with their passport and job offer etc and pay a fee before they start work?
You said a work permit/visa system is already in place. Yet again I have proved you wrong. There is no work permit/visa system in place for EU citizens.
no I did not, I said as good as. What the fuck do you think you have to go to the foreign office or police station and pay a fee for? Fun? What difference is that to getting a visa?
Well as you only have to go there 3 months after you started the job, how exactly does that stop you from getting a job?
no, you can live there for 3 months before you HAVE to do that. You HAVE to do that BEFORE you start any job to get your NIE (national insurance) number
Other EU citizens have to get an NI number before they can work in the UK, exactly the same as a UK citizen.
You still haven't explained why they would or could refuse to give you one, as you have the RIGHT to live and work there, unlike a visa or work permit system where they could refuse you, say on the grounds that they have a cap on immigration and don't want anymore.
If after 3 months you have no job and therefore they don't want/need any more and you have no means of support or healthcare provision then they can deport you now even if you are a member of the EU. What is the difference?
No they cant! Stop lying! "Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled."
But the difference between now and after we leave, is now you can be offered a job and take it up and the government can't stop you because you have the RIGHT to work there. In the future, you could apply for a job and be offered it, yet be denied a work permit/visa because the government has reached an immigration target, or because they have enough people for that industry etc. Can you really not see the difference there?
jeez. Read it again. If after 3 months when you have to register and you have no job no means of support and no access to healthcare you can be expelled. Or do you think there is something you're entitled to? What country is going to allow a foreign vagrant to walk the streets with no access to healthcare?
Yes of course I can see the difference which is why I said at the moment it is pretty much the same not the same. And if say Spain suddenly decided that they don't want somebody who has been done for speeding or dropping litter etc then they can simply say no they don't want you and your RIGHT has gone.
It says "THEY CANNOT BE EXPELLED"!
To say that an EU citizen can be deported for littering is quite a claim. Are you going to provide any proof of this?
Read it again!! Case c-292/89 refers to someone who has worked already then STOPPED working. I did not say they could be deported for littering did I? The point I was trying to make was that the host country can make up rules now to bar you from working if they wish to, that is the point of producing your passport when you first register to live or work
The way I read what you said, according to you, if an EU citizen speeds or litters, they will lose their EU treaty rights to live and work in Spain and will be deported.
Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that working abroad is not as easy and straight forward as you seem to think and the process of getting a work permit/visa would be no more difficult. Now if a country decides that they have enough workers for your chosen job and they turn you down, so what? What is wrong with that? Have you got every job you ever applied for? Did you say you have to give me a job because its my 'right'? Of course not. So why should governments/countries be any different?
So you admit that speeding or littering isn’t a reason to get deported then? The point that I have proved is that there is no visa/work permit system in place, and that it would be detrimental to have one. Also as opposed to the current system, a visa/work permit system would not give you the right to work there. You could be the perfect candidate for a job, it could be your dream job, you want it, and they want to give it to you, but the government says no. Do you really look forward to government intervention into an area of your life that they have not previously had power over?
Obviously you are happy for this to happen in the EU, so how about if it happened in the UK, would you like it if Scotland, Wales and NI had power over immigration policy? Would you like to have to apply for permission from the Welsh Assembly to take up a job in Cardiff for example, knowing that they might say “sorry, we have just taken two Scotsmen and an Irishman today, so you can’t take up that job you have been offered”
If its OK for the constituent countries of the UK, how about if individual regions or counties had that same power? I live in the South East, a very popular part of the country to live. We have good schools, good hospitals etc. but a housing crisis because so many people want to live here. Should there be limits on who can move here? Should we reject people from say Newcastle, or Leeds, or Bristol?
Comedy gold as usual
"I think I've sussed it. The BBC are doing remakes of old sitcoms. Maybe this is really an audition for the next Sir Humphrey. | |||
"We do not and never have had senior military commanders referred to as 1 or 2 'star's'.. and never shall, we maintain our own rank structure which predates a lot of other nations.. end off.. We have! I just proved it above! It doesn't replace our rank structure, it works along side it. In the Army a Brigadier is a 1 star, a Major General is a 2 star, Lt General is a 3 star, General is a 4 star and Field Marshall is a 5 star. So they have a title, and stars, it's not one or the other, in the same way they can have other titles as well as their rank such as Commanding Officer, Officer Commanding, Garrison Commander etc. your contradicting yourself.. you can't say 'i've proved it' and then accept it doesn't replace our rank structure.. do you know something? bollocks to wikipedia or whatever your source is.. saying something is of a comparable rank, role or responsibility fine but we do not have it.. Its not contradicting myself at all, the rules of the forum mean that I cant post the link to the British Army website, but it you go to it, then click on British Army Structure, then Ranks, you will see that it says Brigadier (aka One Star) etc. So check it out, and let me know if you still think I'm wrong, wikipedia is wrong and even the Army themselves are wrong about their own rank structure. the Army are wrong? I will decline the invite ta, I shall just refer to memory..
A typical Brexiter, why let facts get in the way huh? I guess my memory must be a little bit better than yours "wrong on the typical Brexiter, very wrong and most of the brexiter's on here would have chuckled when they read that I reckon.. on your further post where you state I am upset your wrong again, if its that important to you that people castigate themselves on the alter of your being right then maybe take a break from the forums? my memory of ranks i served under is fine, I never worked at Nato HQ though so hence me being unaware of the comparability in those circumstances with other nations.. | |||
"We do not and never have had senior military commanders referred to as 1 or 2 'star's'.. and never shall, we maintain our own rank structure which predates a lot of other nations.. end off.. We have! I just proved it above! It doesn't replace our rank structure, it works along side it. In the Army a Brigadier is a 1 star, a Major General is a 2 star, Lt General is a 3 star, General is a 4 star and Field Marshall is a 5 star. So they have a title, and stars, it's not one or the other, in the same way they can have other titles as well as their rank such as Commanding Officer, Officer Commanding, Garrison Commander etc. your contradicting yourself.. you can't say 'i've proved it' and then accept it doesn't replace our rank structure.. do you know something? bollocks to wikipedia or whatever your source is.. saying something is of a comparable rank, role or responsibility fine but we do not have it.. Its not contradicting myself at all, the rules of the forum mean that I cant post the link to the British Army website, but it you go to it, then click on British Army Structure, then Ranks, you will see that it says Brigadier (aka One Star) etc. So check it out, and let me know if you still think I'm wrong, wikipedia is wrong and even the Army themselves are wrong about their own rank structure. the Army are wrong? I will decline the invite ta, I shall just refer to memory..
A typical Brexiter, why let facts get in the way huh? I guess my memory must be a little bit better than yours
wrong on the typical Brexiter, very wrong and most of the brexiter's on here would have chuckled when they read that I reckon..
on your further post where you state I am upset your wrong again, if its that important to you that people castigate themselves on the alter of your being right then maybe take a break from the forums?
my memory of ranks i served under is fine, I never worked at Nato HQ though so hence me being unaware of the comparability in those circumstances with other nations..
"It's not just used in NATO HQs, I've used it and heard it used on bases, stations and garrisons up and down the country. | |||
"We do not and never have had senior military commanders referred to as 1 or 2 'star's'.. and never shall, we maintain our own rank structure which predates a lot of other nations.. end off.. We have! I just proved it above! It doesn't replace our rank structure, it works along side it. In the Army a Brigadier is a 1 star, a Major General is a 2 star, Lt General is a 3 star, General is a 4 star and Field Marshall is a 5 star. So they have a title, and stars, it's not one or the other, in the same way they can have other titles as well as their rank such as Commanding Officer, Officer Commanding, Garrison Commander etc. your contradicting yourself.. you can't say 'i've proved it' and then accept it doesn't replace our rank structure.. do you know something? bollocks to wikipedia or whatever your source is.. saying something is of a comparable rank, role or responsibility fine but we do not have it.. Its not contradicting myself at all, the rules of the forum mean that I cant post the link to the British Army website, but it you go to it, then click on British Army Structure, then Ranks, you will see that it says Brigadier (aka One Star) etc. So check it out, and let me know if you still think I'm wrong, wikipedia is wrong and even the Army themselves are wrong about their own rank structure. the Army are wrong? I will decline the invite ta, I shall just refer to memory..
A typical Brexiter, why let facts get in the way huh? I guess my memory must be a little bit better than yours
wrong on the typical Brexiter, very wrong and most of the brexiter's on here would have chuckled when they read that I reckon..
on your further post where you state I am upset your wrong again, if its that important to you that people castigate themselves on the alter of your being right then maybe take a break from the forums?
my memory of ranks i served under is fine, I never worked at Nato HQ though so hence me being unaware of the comparability in those circumstances with other nations..
It's not just used in NATO HQs, I've used it and heard it used on bases, stations and garrisons up and down the country."well done you.. in just under 14 years and 6 of that was in 1 BR Corps, Baor I didn't.. now about your being wrong on me being a brexiter? typical or otherwise.. | |||
"We do not and never have had senior military commanders referred to as 1 or 2 'star's'.. and never shall, we maintain our own rank structure which predates a lot of other nations.. end off.. We have! I just proved it above! It doesn't replace our rank structure, it works along side it. In the Army a Brigadier is a 1 star, a Major General is a 2 star, Lt General is a 3 star, General is a 4 star and Field Marshall is a 5 star. So they have a title, and stars, it's not one or the other, in the same way they can have other titles as well as their rank such as Commanding Officer, Officer Commanding, Garrison Commander etc. your contradicting yourself.. you can't say 'i've proved it' and then accept it doesn't replace our rank structure.. do you know something? bollocks to wikipedia or whatever your source is.. saying something is of a comparable rank, role or responsibility fine but we do not have it.. Its not contradicting myself at all, the rules of the forum mean that I cant post the link to the British Army website, but it you go to it, then click on British Army Structure, then Ranks, you will see that it says Brigadier (aka One Star) etc. So check it out, and let me know if you still think I'm wrong, wikipedia is wrong and even the Army themselves are wrong about their own rank structure. the Army are wrong? I will decline the invite ta, I shall just refer to memory..
A typical Brexiter, why let facts get in the way huh? I guess my memory must be a little bit better than yours
wrong on the typical Brexiter, very wrong and most of the brexiter's on here would have chuckled when they read that I reckon..
on your further post where you state I am upset your wrong again, if its that important to you that people castigate themselves on the alter of your being right then maybe take a break from the forums?
my memory of ranks i served under is fine, I never worked at Nato HQ though so hence me being unaware of the comparability in those circumstances with other nations..
It's not just used in NATO HQs, I've used it and heard it used on bases, stations and garrisons up and down the country.
well done you..
in just under 14 years and 6 of that was in 1 BR Corps, Baor I didn't..
now about your being wrong on me being a brexiter?
typical or otherwise.."Do you always assume that just because you don't know something, that it cant possibly be true? If you did not support Brexit, then I apologise for saying that you did. | |||
"We do not and never have had senior military commanders referred to as 1 or 2 'star's'.. and never shall, we maintain our own rank structure which predates a lot of other nations.. end off.. We have! I just proved it above! It doesn't replace our rank structure, it works along side it. In the Army a Brigadier is a 1 star, a Major General is a 2 star, Lt General is a 3 star, General is a 4 star and Field Marshall is a 5 star. So they have a title, and stars, it's not one or the other, in the same way they can have other titles as well as their rank such as Commanding Officer, Officer Commanding, Garrison Commander etc. your contradicting yourself.. you can't say 'i've proved it' and then accept it doesn't replace our rank structure.. do you know something? bollocks to wikipedia or whatever your source is.. saying something is of a comparable rank, role or responsibility fine but we do not have it.. Its not contradicting myself at all, the rules of the forum mean that I cant post the link to the British Army website, but it you go to it, then click on British Army Structure, then Ranks, you will see that it says Brigadier (aka One Star) etc. So check it out, and let me know if you still think I'm wrong, wikipedia is wrong and even the Army themselves are wrong about their own rank structure. the Army are wrong? I will decline the invite ta, I shall just refer to memory..
A typical Brexiter, why let facts get in the way huh? I guess my memory must be a little bit better than yours
wrong on the typical Brexiter, very wrong and most of the brexiter's on here would have chuckled when they read that I reckon..
on your further post where you state I am upset your wrong again, if its that important to you that people castigate themselves on the alter of your being right then maybe take a break from the forums?
my memory of ranks i served under is fine, I never worked at Nato HQ though so hence me being unaware of the comparability in those circumstances with other nations..
It's not just used in NATO HQs, I've used it and heard it used on bases, stations and garrisons up and down the country.
well done you..
in just under 14 years and 6 of that was in 1 BR Corps, Baor I didn't..
now about your being wrong on me being a brexiter?
typical or otherwise..
Do you always assume that just because you don't know something, that it cant possibly be true?
If you did not support Brexit, then I apologise for saying that you did."No, its how we learn.. accepted.. | |||
