FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Home Nations denied a seat at the Brexit negotiations

Home Nations denied a seat at the Brexit negotiations

By *oo hot OP Couple over a year ago

North West

There is a thing called democracy. It works well in the EU when all member states (and if applicable devolved regions) have to agree even for things like trade deals.

In this country, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, the home nations have devolved parliaments but they have been refused any say whatsoever in a process that will have enormous and long term effects on the rights and obligations of their citizens. What sort of democratic process is it when A small group of grade C (at best) English politicians arrogantly change the lives of citizens of other countries without a mandate to do so? This is supposedly the democracy for which the Brexit vote was called?

I have said on a previous thread and I will reiterate here, the Brexit vote was the beginning of a process that will see English politicians destroy the union.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

Did you really think that a tory would share power to decide the fate of the UK with anyone unless forced to do so?

By the way we don't have a democracy, we have a parliamentary democracy that is elected by a first past the post election system (that is in itself undemocratic) where the Executive (government) can act without parliaments approval provided they can find a piece of primary legislation to give them authority.

And that is why legislation is very rarely repealed.

And welcome one and all to 1984!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

The UK is one country, it is the government of the UK in Westminster and the Prime Minister of the UK who will negotiate with the EU on the terms of our exit.

Secondly to say the EU does democracy well is an absolute joke, the European people elect MEP's to the European Parliament but they don't hold any real power, the European Parliament is nothing more than a talking shop. It is the unelected elitist commission who hold all the cards and all the power in the EU.

Who remembers Rep. of Ireland rejecting the EU in a referendum but the EU didn't like the answer and made the Irish vote again until they got the answer they wanted, that is the EU's version of democracy for you.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

What's more the MP's in Westminster have an overwhelming mandate to deliver Brexit. It is the biggest mandate in the history of the UK. 17 and a half million people in the whole of the UK voted to leave the EU and leave is what we shall do.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"What's more the MP's in Westminster have an overwhelming mandate to deliver Brexit. It is the biggest mandate in the history of the UK. 17 and a half million people in the whole of the UK voted to leave the EU and leave is what we shall do. "

Right, and there we have it. Your definition of an overwhelming majority is 17.5 million of a population of 55 million.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

Right, and there we have it. Your definition of an overwhelming majority is 17.5 million of a population of 55 million. "

Everyone had a chance to vote, more people voted for Leave. END OF.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

I'm just wondering why the Remainers were not shouting from the rooftops for the devolved governments to be involved in David Cameron's renegotiation deal with the EU before the referendum?

After all it was a negotiation with the EU which would affect all parts of the UK?

Why did the Remainers not demand that the devolved governments get involved then?

It just smacks of double standards and gives the impression Remainers are throwing tantrums, because you clearly didn't give a shit about the devolved governments being involved in EU negotiations before the referendum.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *tillup4funMan over a year ago

Wakefield

"The UK is one country, it is the government of the UK in Westminster and the Prime Minister of the UK who will negotiate with the EU on the terms of our exit.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *tillup4funMan over a year ago

Wakefield

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *tillup4funMan over a year ago

Wakefield

"I'm just wondering why the Remainers were not shouting from the rooftops for the devolved governments to be involved in David Cameron's renegotiation deal with the EU before the referendum?

After all it was a negotiation with the EU which would affect all parts of the UK?

Why did the Remainers not demand that the devolved governments get involved then?

Well said

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yeah I just heard on the news that may said only united kingdom can vote on brexit negotiations, that is not democracy, it is a such a shame, scotland, wales and ireland have been dragged into this mess with england.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

Well it seems as though the Welsh have been offered a seat at the table, but not the Scots or the Northern Irish, seems very strange to me.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"Yeah I just heard on the news that may said only united kingdom can vote on brexit negotiations, that is not democracy, it is a such a shame, scotland, wales and ireland have been dragged into this mess with england."

A majority in Wales voted Leave Shag.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

A majority in Wales voted Leave Shag. "

The key majority was a majority voted Leave in the whole of the UK combined.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

A majority in Wales voted Leave Shag.

The key majority was a majority voted Leave in the whole of the UK combined. "
That is right. I wonder why they did it as they have more to lose financially over brexit?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *isandreTV/TS over a year ago

Hartlepool

As Jon Snow said

'Over 120 days since the referendum. 80 days till article 50 is triggered.

And what do we know.....?'

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *mmabluTV/TS over a year ago

upton wirral

"There is a thing called democracy. It works well in the EU when all member states (and if applicable devolved regions) have to agree even for things like trade deals.

I have said on a previous thread and I will reiterate here, the Brexit vote was the beginning of a process that will see English politicians destroy the union. "
It is why the EU does not work and one of the main reasons I voted out,it is over democracy that is killing Europe,if the Scots wish to become a poor poverty stricken communist nation then let them

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

Right, and there we have it. Your definition of an overwhelming majority is 17.5 million of a population of 55 million.

Everyone had a chance to vote, more people voted for Leave. END OF. "

No one disputes that 52% voted to leave the EU, however to call 52% overwhelming is a bit of a stretch at best. Even Nigel said that a vote close to 52% was 'unfinished business'.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"I'm just wondering why the Remainers were not shouting from the rooftops for the devolved governments to be involved in David Cameron's renegotiation deal with the EU before the referendum?

After all it was a negotiation with the EU which would affect all parts of the UK?

Why did the Remainers not demand that the devolved governments get involved then?

Because the devolved governments were not asking to be involved probably.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

On a point of information. Wales voted to leave to.

On the general principle I find myself actually agreeing with Centura. It's the job of the United Kingdom government to negotiate for the whole of the United Kingdom and the devolved governments have no jurisdiction or remit in that area.

However, if we want to keep a united UK then we really need to listen to all the peoples and nations of the UK. Forcing Scotland in particular down a path it clearly does not want to go down is only going to store up problems for the future, especially if BREXIT is not the great economic success that many of those who campaigned for it have claimed and promised.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *andS66Couple over a year ago

Derby

Right, and there we have it. Your definition of an overwhelming majority is 17.5 million of a population of 55 million.

Everyone had a chance to vote, more people voted for Leave. END OF.

No one disputes that 52% voted to leave the EU, however to call 52% overwhelming is a bit of a stretch at best. Even Nigel said that a vote close to 52% was 'unfinished business'."

If the referendum was carried out on the fptp system as general elections are, then Brexit would have got 421 seats, equating to a 192 seat majority, with I think the largest turnout in many many years. Not even Tony Blair's Labour got that in their landslide victory.

That is an overwhelming majority.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

May should have an election. I don't think she's particularly good for anything. The other nations should have clear inclusivity with our EU plans.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

May should have an election. I don't think she's particularly good for anything. The other nations should have clear inclusivity with our EU plans. "

May won't call an election as she knows a likely landslide victory would finally lead to Corbyn being ousted as leader, he would be unlikely to survive an election thrashing.

She can't afford to face a Labour resurgence in five years time, she is relying on Corbyn staying as leader.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oo hot OP Couple over a year ago

North West

"There is a thing called democracy. It works well in the EU when all member states (and if applicable devolved regions) have to agree even for things like trade deals.

I have said on a previous thread and I will reiterate here, the Brexit vote was the beginning of a process that will see English politicians destroy the union. It is why the EU does not work and one of the main reasons I voted out,it is over democracy that is killing Europe,if the Scots wish to become a poor poverty stricken communist nation then let them"

Interesting. I have heard the EU called undemocratic and even anti democratic but you are the first person I have heard call it over democratic. As it happens, you are probably closer to the truth than those who have been blinded by Farage and his undemocratic assertions about the EU.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There is a thing called democracy. It works well in the EU when all member states (and if applicable devolved regions) have to agree even for things like trade deals.

I think you could have used a better example of democracy tbh

7 years of trade negotiations possibly down the pan which would of benefitted over 500 million people, blocked by some backwater with a population of 3.6 million - a tiny area of the EU that has only 0.7% of a total EU population can block what the other 99.3% want.....

To me thats democracy dead on it's knees and a fundamental problem with the EU.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *isandreTV/TS over a year ago

Hartlepool

Why is there any talk about May calling an early election?

The Tory/Lib Dem passed an Act of Parliament for fixed term parliaments.

There are only two ways it can now happen early.

1. A vote by 2/3 of the H.O.C. to hold an early election, so May would need over 100 MP's from other Party's to back her, which isn't going to happen.

2. A vote of no confidence in the Government. So the PM would have to propose a vote of no confidence in herself and her chosen cabinet and expect to get enough Tory MP's to vote for it, knowing their seats would be at risk. On the other side we would probably then have Labour and SNP MP's voting that they DID have confidence in the government. Quite what the public would make of it all is anybodies guess.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *isandreTV/TS over a year ago

Hartlepool

In the wake of the Panama Papers scandal, a petition was created on the Parliamentary Petitions Page that called for a General Election after Prime Minister David Cameron revealed that he had had investments in an offshore trust.[7] After having passed the threshold of 100,000 signatures, the government response cited the Fixed Term Parliament Act to state that "no Government can call an early general election any more anyway".[8]

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *otlovefun42Couple over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

Right, and there we have it. Your definition of an overwhelming majority is 17.5 million of a population of 55 million.

Everyone had a chance to vote, more people voted for Leave. END OF.

No one disputes that 52% voted to leave the EU, however to call 52% overwhelming is a bit of a stretch at best. Even Nigel said that a vote close to 52% was 'unfinished business'.

That is an overwhelming majority."

And an inconvenient truth for the remainers.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Right, and there we have it. Your definition of an overwhelming majority is 17.5 million of a population of 55 million.

Everyone had a chance to vote, more people voted for Leave. END OF.

No one disputes that 52% voted to leave the EU, however to call 52% overwhelming is a bit of a stretch at best. Even Nigel said that a vote close to 52% was 'unfinished business'.

That is an overwhelming majority.

And an inconvenient truth for the remainers.

what few there are

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *otlovefun42Couple over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

Right, and there we have it. Your definition of an overwhelming majority is 17.5 million of a population of 55 million.

Everyone had a chance to vote, more people voted for Leave. END OF.

No one disputes that 52% voted to leave the EU, however to call 52% overwhelming is a bit of a stretch at best. Even Nigel said that a vote close to 52% was 'unfinished business'.

That is an overwhelming majority.

And an inconvenient truth for the remainers.

what few there are

True, but it's a bit like having noisy neighbours.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The UK is a member of the EU. Scotland isn't, Wales isn't (though they voted out by a bigger majority than a England).

As fir democracy....here is how it works.

You have a right to vote whichever way you wish.

If you decide not to vote then you abdicate your right to influence the decision, or to moan about the result. The decision goes the way of the majority of those who got off their arses and voted. It's not rocket science.

I don't even know why they did a regional breakdown of the results....it wasn't relevant!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The UK is a member of the EU. Scotland isn't, Wales isn't (though they voted out by a bigger majority than a England).

As fir democracy....here is how it works.

You have a right to vote whichever way you wish.

I don't even know why they did a regional breakdown of the results....it wasn't relevant!"

exactly. They should have just put all the slips into one big pot and counted them from there, then we'd have had none of this bollocks

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"The UK is a member of the EU. Scotland isn't, Wales isn't (though they voted out by a bigger majority than a England).

As fir democracy....here is how it works.

You have a right to vote whichever way you wish.

I don't even know why they did a regional breakdown of the results....it wasn't relevant!

exactly. They should have just put all the slips into one big pot and counted them from there, then we'd have had none of this bollocks"

Just over 1 million people voted to Leave the EU in Scotland. It was those 1 million Leave votes in Scotland which gave Leave an overall majority in the UK and those 1 million Leave votes in Scotland handed the victory to the Leave side of the referendum. Nicola Sturgeon should remember it was 1 million of her fellow Scots countrymen and women who helped Leave to bag the victory.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *isandreTV/TS over a year ago

Hartlepool

Because the referendum was poorly judged, you are left with controversy and arguments.

Because the campaigns were poorly ran, you are left with controversy and arguments.

If the referendum was about two clear choices, properly explained and debated over a sufficient period of time there could be no argument about this.

Because Leave and to a lesser extent Remain were not honest about what we would most likely be moving to, there is legitimised resistance, because this is a huge event.

To then ignore clear issues that parts of the UK will have, which could result in its break up, on technicalities, is going to mean more controversy and arguments.

Decisions just won't be accepted and the only people who will lose out are ALL of us ourselves, because uncertainty and political turmoil and unrest are never good.

What should happen is the Brexit team talk to everyone, see if they can come up with a solution most like or can live with and then either a parliamentary vote or another referendum.

A proper referendum following a reasoned debate, as should have happened the first time, would be the sensible solution but the Leave voters are too worried their arguments won't win out a second time. Yet if they were strong enough arguments, surely they should?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oorland2Couple over a year ago

Stoke

Right, and there we have it. Your definition of an overwhelming majority is 17.5 million of a population of 55 million. "

So what constitutes a fair vote and representative government, it seems like you don't really agree with the process unless you a result that suits your political views. Another left wing monster moans

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oorland2Couple over a year ago

Stoke

"The UK is a member of the EU. Scotland isn't, Wales isn't (though they voted out by a bigger majority than a England).

As fir democracy....here is how it works.

You have a right to vote whichever way you wish.

I don't even know why they did a regional breakdown of the results....it wasn't relevant!

exactly. They should have just put all the slips into one big pot and counted them from there, then we'd have had none of this bollocks

Any way let's be honest she is a moaning self centred twat, she wants independence for Scotland but refuses to allow the whole of the UK to be free from an unelected elite that goes by the name of the EU

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oorland2Couple over a year ago

Stoke

"The UK is a member of the EU. Scotland isn't, Wales isn't (though they voted out by a bigger majority than a England).

As fir democracy....here is how it works.

You have a right to vote whichever way you wish.

I don't even know why they did a regional breakdown of the results....it wasn't relevant!

exactly. They should have just put all the slips into one big pot and counted them from there, then we'd have had none of this bollocks"

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

Right, and there we have it. Your definition of an overwhelming majority is 17.5 million of a population of 55 million.

Why left wing?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Because the referendum was poorly judged, you are left with controversy and arguments.

Because the campaigns were poorly ran, you are left with controversy and arguments.

If the referendum was about two clear choices, properly explained and debated over a sufficient period of time there could be no argument about this.

Because Leave and to a lesser extent Remain were not honest about what we would most likely be moving to, there is legitimised resistance, because this is a huge event.

To then ignore clear issues that parts of the UK will have, which could result in its break up, on technicalities, is going to mean more controversy and arguments.

Decisions just won't be accepted and the only people who will lose out are ALL of us ourselves, because uncertainty and political turmoil and unrest are never good.

What should happen is the Brexit team talk to everyone, see if they can come up with a solution most like or can live with and then either a parliamentary vote or another referendum.

just because you didn't understand the issues first time round and voted the wrong way doesn't mean we all did. The decision was made, its over

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

There is not one person who voted to remain that knew what they were voting for. Nobody knows what the EU will be in 5, 10 years time

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *otlovefun42Couple over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"There is not one person who voted to remain that knew what they were voting for. Nobody knows what the EU will be in 5, 10 years time"

I could shorten that to months.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The UK is one country, it is the government of the UK in Westminster and the Prime Minister of the UK who will negotiate with the EU on the terms of our exit.

no they didn't. the Irish asked why the people rejected the treaty and went back to the EU and got it amended to reflect their people's concerns. The treaty was amended and the people voted yes.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There is not one person who voted to remain that knew what they were voting for. Nobody knows what the EU will be in 5, 10 years time"

They were voting to remain in the EU. if the EU had changed we could have left in the future had we wanted. So it mattered not one jot in casting your vote what it will be in the future.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There is a thing called democracy. It works well in the EU when all member states (and if applicable devolved regions) have to agree even for things like trade deals.

I have said on a previous thread and I will reiterate here, the Brexit vote was the beginning of a process that will see English politicians destroy the union. "

Oooo I do hope so

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

[Removed by poster at 26/10/16 21:21:10]

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

"There is not one person who voted to remain that knew what they were voting for. Nobody knows what the EU will be in 5, 10 years time

They were voting to remain in the EU. if the EU had changed we could have left in the future had we wanted. So it mattered not one jot in casting your vote what it will be in the future."

Exactly.....

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The UK is one country, it is the government of the UK in Westminster and the Prime Minister of the UK who will negotiate with the EU on the terms of our exit.

no they didn't. the Irish asked why the people rejected the treaty and went back to the EU and got it amended to reflect their people's concerns. The treaty was amended and the people voted yes. "

The Irish asked nothing of the sort.....the EU commissioners just didn't like their democratic decision so tokdcthem to vote again with a few veiled threats as to what would happen otherwise. Same happened with a similar result in the Netherlands.....they also voted no to a treaty change but were "persuaded' to vote again.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I've just got my UK NEW

DL...

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *isandreTV/TS over a year ago

Hartlepool

"Because the referendum was poorly judged, you are left with controversy and arguments.

Because the campaigns were poorly ran, you are left with controversy and arguments.

If the referendum was about two clear choices, properly explained and debated over a sufficient period of time there could be no argument about this.

Because Leave and to a lesser extent Remain were not honest about what we would most likely be moving to, there is legitimised resistance, because this is a huge event.

To then ignore clear issues that parts of the UK will have, which could result in its break up, on technicalities, is going to mean more controversy and arguments.

Decisions just won't be accepted and the only people who will lose out are ALL of us ourselves, because uncertainty and political turmoil and unrest are never good.

What should happen is the Brexit team talk to everyone, see if they can come up with a solution most like or can live with and then either a parliamentary vote or another referendum.

just because you didn't understand the issues first time round and voted the wrong way doesn't mean we all did. The decision was made, its over"

As I said, it clearly isn't over and you only want it to be because you suspect your case for brexit is not robust enough to withstand proper scrutiny.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

All these referendum deniers make me laugh. It is over, we are going to leave the EU, and the single market too. The government wouldn't dare go back on it now, there would be trouble, of this I am certain.

Riots at the very least

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *isandreTV/TS over a year ago

Hartlepool

There already is trouble and it is going to get worse.

It won't be long before the economic impact starts to tell and people start getting angry at the fucking bullshitters, idiots and political chancers who ran the leave campaign.

I see smiiffys have already said they are relocating to somewhere definitely in the single market. Vauxhall have already lost £100m and reckon it will be £400m by the end of the year due to the fall out from brexit, so they will shortly have to make a decision on Astra production in the uk. They already increased prices.

Meanwhile, brexit was about the £350m a week to the NHS for many voters and as that starts to become clear flannel a lot more people will be saying 'ignore my vote, it wasn't legally binding anyway'.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"All these referendum deniers make me laugh. It is over, we are going to leave the EU, and the single market too. The government wouldn't dare go back on it now, there would be trouble, of this I am certain.

Riots at the very least

And there will be riots at the very least when millions of people start to loose their jobs and inflation starts to eat away at the real wages this of those who remain in work.

At the end of the day it's the economy that matters.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"There already is trouble and it is going to get worse.

It won't be long before the economic impact starts to tell and people start getting angry at the fucking bullshitters, idiots and political chancers who ran the leave campaign.

These BREXITers seem to think that they can buck the markets and fool the people indefinitely but they can't. As more and more bad economic news comes in and the effects of BREXIT take an ever more disastrous on ordinary people they will realise just how much they have fooled by the BREXIT lies.

There again maybe they do realise that they can't fool the people indefinitely and that's why they're in such a hurry to try and make it irreversible as quickly as possible, with no real regard for anything except leaving and to hell with any consequences.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think most of us are aware that there will be turmoil at first, teething problems if you like. But when we find our feet, and we will, then everyone will see that we made the right choice.

In the mean time working class people will continue to ignore the screams of greedy bastards who are losing there ickle gravy train.

Onwards and upwards a successful independent United Kingdom.

Good night girls!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *andS66Couple over a year ago

Derby

If the referendum was about two clear choices, properly explained and debated over a sufficient period of time there could be no argument about this.

Because Leave and to a lesser extent Remain were not honest about what we would most likely be moving to, there is legitimised resistance, because this is a huge event.

You trust any politicians to properly explain and debate anything?!!!

To a lesser extent remain weren't honest?

£4,300 worse off a year?

18% drop in house prices immediately following a yes vote?

3,000,000 job losses immediately following a yes vote?

£30 Billion tax raising emergency budget immediately following a yes vote?

Major war in the EU?

To name a few.....

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *andS66Couple over a year ago

Derby

"There is not one person who voted to remain that knew what they were voting for. Nobody knows what the EU will be in 5, 10 years time

They were voting to remain in the EU. if the EU had changed we could have left in the future had we wanted. So it mattered not one jot in casting your vote what it will be in the future."

When? When there is another referendum? Another 40 years perhaps? When treaties change? (Nope, that's already been proven not to happen).

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There is not one person who voted to remain that knew what they were voting for. Nobody knows what the EU will be in 5, 10 years time

They were voting to remain in the EU. if the EU had changed we could have left in the future had we wanted. So it mattered not one jot in casting your vote what it will be in the future.

When? When there is another referendum? Another 40 years perhaps? When treaties change? (Nope, that's already been proven not to happen)."

Or they bring out a treaty banning referendums on leaving or make it illegal to leave or fine a country so heavily for leaving that it acts as a deterrent. Who knows? Like I said, nobody

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"I think most of us are aware that there will be turmoil at first, teething problems if you like. But when we find our feet, and we will, then everyone will see that we made the right choice.

But what's the economic up side?. You say 'most of us are aware there will be turmoil at first' but what exactly are we all meant to making all these sacrificed for?

In the mean time working class people will continue to ignore the screams of greedy bastards who are losing there ickle gravy train.

The only screaming that's going to be heard is the massive screams of dismay that all people make when the economic turmoil you yourself predict means they loose their jobs

Onwards and upwards a successful independent United Kingdom.

We're already living in a successful independent United Kingdon. The only thing BREXIT is likely to achieve is an unsuccessful, disunited kingdom, financially dependent on either the EU or the US. In reality BREXIT is the biggest step we've ever taken to reduce our own independence and leave ourselves at the mercy of other countries who are bound to try to take advantage of our weak-end financial position.

Good night girls!"

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There is a thing called democracy. It works well in the EU when all member states (and if applicable devolved regions) have to agree even for things like trade deals.

Either that's an off the cuff remark or the most ill-informed post on the thread.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oo hot OP Couple over a year ago

North West

"I think most of us are aware that there will be turmoil at first, teething problems if you like. But when we find our feet, and we will, then everyone will see that we made the right choice.

In the mean time working class people will continue to ignore the screams of greedy bastards who are losing there ickle gravy train.

Onwards and upwards a successful independent United Kingdom.

Good night girls!"

Oh dear....

Those "greedy bastards" will have already positioned themselves to minimise their exposure to a failing UK currency and economy. Even if they haven't, their wealth will give them a sufficient cushion anyway.

As always it will be the ordinary people who get a fixed salary, paid in Sterling who will feel the most pain from this. More expensive petrol/diesel, more expensive heating costs, more expensive home shopping, more expensive holidays and tax rises aligned with more austerity.

It is quite remarkable that your post illustrates what I have heard many times about Brexit meaning sticking it to the rich. Unfortunately that kind of comment plays completely in to the hands of those people who say that Brexit voters are stupid. In the event of the widely expected Brexit downturn, the rich, "greedy bastards" will not feel a hint of pain whereas the ordinary people will.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

"I think most of us are aware that there will be turmoil at first, teething problems if you like. But when we find our feet, and we will, then everyone will see that we made the right choice.

In the mean time working class people will continue to ignore the screams of greedy bastards who are losing there ickle gravy train.

Onwards and upwards a successful independent United Kingdom.

Good night girls!

Oh dear....

It's called 'The politics of envy', a distinct part of our population who blame everyone but themselves for their lot, for some reason they think that their prospects will be better at the expense of the wealthy after Brexit.....they haven't stopped to think that the over inflated FTSE has already made the rich even richer over the last Two months....while their own income will have been dented.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think most of us are aware that there will be turmoil at first, teething problems if you like. But when we find our feet, and we will, then everyone will see that we made the right choice.

In the mean time working class people will continue to ignore the screams of greedy bastards who are losing there ickle gravy train.

Onwards and upwards a successful independent United Kingdom.

Good night girls!

Oh dear....

if the rich become richer does that mean that more jobs will be created and wages will rise?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *enard ArgenteMan over a year ago

London and France

if the rich become richer does that mean that more jobs will be created and wages will rise?"

It used to, when they would invest it in building and businesses; but not anymore: over the last 20/30 years they have simply turned to playing numbers on shares and currency buying to enrich themselves.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

if the rich become richer does that mean that more jobs will be created and wages will rise?

except for the multi nationals who enrich themselves through the movement of cheap labour

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"I think most of us are aware that there will be turmoil at first, teething problems if you like. But when we find our feet, and we will, then everyone will see that we made the right choice.

In the mean time working class people will continue to ignore the screams of greedy bastards who are losing there ickle gravy train.

Onwards and upwards a successful independent United Kingdom.

Good night girls!

Oh dear....

I don't get it that the mentality of some is to want to stick it to the rich, and ignoring the facts of the last few decades that show that the rich have either gotten richer or have moved their money elsewhere..

despite the recent increase with the 'living wage' its still a case of a few crumbs..

its like burning your shared fence down to annoy your neighbour..

its another group to add to the must blame someone else, don't like none white people, we used to be Great, they will jump to our tune and the other ignorant people within the Brexit campaign..

the turmoil could be such that those who can least afford it will be in such dire straits that they will take less to feel better off..

its frightening..

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *obka3Couple over a year ago

bournemouth

Oh dear the remainers are going to be in their element after the latest bad news

Growth better than expected and nissan going to build two new models here

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *tillup4funMan over a year ago

Wakefield

"Oh dear the remainers are going to be in their element after the latest bad news

Growth better than expected and nissan going to build two new models here

Thought everyone was leaving the UK.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

If the referendum was about two clear choices, properly explained and debated over a sufficient period of time there could be no argument about this.

Because Leave and to a lesser extent Remain were not honest about what we would most likely be moving to, there is legitimised resistance, because this is a huge event.

You trust any politicians to properly explain and debate anything?!!!

To a lesser extent remain weren't honest?

£4,300 worse off a year?

18% drop in house prices immediately following a yes vote?

3,000,000 job losses immediately following a yes vote?

£30 Billion tax raising emergency budget immediately following a yes vote?

Major war in the EU?

To name a few.....

Except Remain never said any of that. What they did say was if we leave the EU:-

UK GDP could fall by as much as £4,300 per year per family. (that's actually about £1,500 per year per family in actual money in your pocket). - GDP is still predicted to fall and is falling.

3,000,000 jobs in the UK are directly related to our trade in Europe, if we leave the EU those jobs are at risk. (AT RISK, not, will be lost). - We've already seen Japanese, Indian and other foreign businesses saying they may relocate to countries within the EU; also many banks are looking to. Whether all of them will go no one knows but, while probably not all, if we have a hard BREXIT, some or more will. How many lost jobs would be an acceptable figure?

It's a well known fact that the more countries trade together the less likely they are to go to war with each other. This was one of the founding principles of the EU/EC/EEC. It the first statement is true then it must also be true that the less countries trade together the more likely they are to go to war with each other. That does not mean there will be a war and no one ever said there would be a war if we left the EU.

If no other action is taken a £30 billion tax raising budget will be required if we leave the EU - Other things have been done, mostly a massive devalueation of the currency, a reduction in interest rates and abandoning elimination of the budget deficit. However that still leaves a budget whole predicted to rise to £60 billion over the next 10 years. It will be interesting to see what's put forward in the autumn statement in a few days time: Many are already calling it 'The First Post BREXIT' budget.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *obka3Couple over a year ago

bournemouth

If the referendum was about two clear choices, properly explained and debated over a sufficient period of time there could be no argument about this.

Because Leave and to a lesser extent Remain were not honest about what we would most likely be moving to, there is legitimised resistance, because this is a huge event.

You trust any politicians to properly explain and debate anything?!!!

To a lesser extent remain weren't honest?

£4,300 worse off a year?

18% drop in house prices immediately following a yes vote?

3,000,000 job losses immediately following a yes vote?

£30 Billion tax raising emergency budget immediately following a yes vote?

Major war in the EU?

To name a few.....

Except Remain never said any of that. What they did say was if we leave the EU:-

UK GDP could fall by as much as £4,300 per year per family. (that's actually about £1,500 per year per family in actual money in your pocket). - GDP is still predicted to fall and is falling.

Google thebeeb reality check for the 18th april, poster with oldgeorge stood by it saying families 4300 worse off so yes they did say it. As misleading ornot asthe 350 m to the NHS

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *tillup4funMan over a year ago

Wakefield

If the referendum was about two clear choices, properly explained and debated over a sufficient period of time there could be no argument about this.

Because Leave and to a lesser extent Remain were not honest about what we would most likely be moving to, there is legitimised resistance, because this is a huge event.

You trust any politicians to properly explain and debate anything?!!!

To a lesser extent remain weren't honest?

£4,300 worse off a year?

18% drop in house prices immediately following a yes vote?

3,000,000 job losses immediately following a yes vote?

£30 Billion tax raising emergency budget immediately following a yes vote?

Major war in the EU?

To name a few.....

Except Remain never said any of that. What they did say was if we leave the EU:-

UK GDP could fall by as much as £4,300 per year per family. (that's actually about £1,500 per year per family in actual money in your pocket). - GDP is still predicted to fall and is falling.

Google thebeeb reality check for the 18th april, poster with oldgeorge stood by it saying families 4300 worse off so yes they did say it. As misleading ornot asthe 350 m to the NHS "

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"Oh dear the remainers are going to be in their element after the latest bad news

Growth better than expected and nissan going to build two new models here

Well you're totally wrong about remainers thinking the Nisan news is bad news. I'm very glad about it. I hope I'm proved wrong on all the other possible consequences of BREXIT to. I'd much rather be prosperous and wrong rather than right and poorer. However it's only what would have happend any how if BREXIT was not happening.

As for growth being better than expected, that also is good news but is it just better than was expected post-BREXIT result.or better than was expected pre-BREXIT result. I've tried to google it but not found anything clear about that yet.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

"Oh dear the remainers are going to be in their element after the latest bad news

Growth better than expected and nissan going to build two new models here

Only since the Nissan UK Chief Executive had a private meeting with Theresa May, looks like we are going back to the days of subsidising companies in order to keep people in work.

May so obviously pledged to cover any future tariff costs that might be incurred by Nissan when exporting into the EU.

According to the Spectator last week that could mean a tariff subsidy of around £900 average per car exported into the EU.

I don't agree with propping up companies.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Maybe the Remainers would like to comment on what the head of the WTO Roberto Azevedo had to say yesterday?

Or on the Global Britain Report?

Or the Euro Currency Cul de Sac?

Or what Civitas has to say?

The UK is already better off from the vote to leave and things will only get better

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oyce69Man over a year ago

Driffield

Well, it appears that Nissan are staying in Britain and investing millions so that's pissed on a few peoples fireworks.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Oh dear the remainers are going to be in their element after the latest bad news

Growth better than expected and nissan going to build two new models here

Only since the Nissan UK Chief Executive had a private meeting with Theresa May, looks like we are going back to the days of subsidising companies in order to keep people in work.

May so obviously pledged to cover any future tariff costs that might be incurred by Nissan when exporting into the EU.

According to the Spectator last week that could mean a tariff subsidy of around £900 average per car exported into the EU.

I don't agree with propping up companies."

me neither but if we were forced to trade under WTO tariffs the government would have a surplus of £8 billion pounds and do you really think EU companies will stand for that?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *obka3Couple over a year ago

bournemouth

"Oh dear the remainers are going to be in their element after the latest bad news

Growth better than expected and nissan going to build two new models here

Only since the Nissan UK Chief Executive had a private meeting with Theresa May, looks like we are going back to the days of subsidising companies in order to keep people in work.

May so obviously pledged to cover any future tariff costs that might be incurred by Nissan when exporting into the EU.

According to the Spectator last week that could mean a tariff subsidy of around £900 average per car exported into the EU.

I don't agree with propping up companies."

But if the company gets back any tariffs charged by other EU countries via the tariff we charge on eu car imports then it wont cost the uk tax payer anything, perhaps TM has had a brain wave, we will get more in tariffs than we pay so just refund it to the companies that pay it on exports, perhaps if she does come out in the brexit talks the others in the eu might stop and think that its easier to just have free trade, they just need to think round the free movement issue and the jobs sorted, we can then carry on being good friends and neighbours

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oyce69Man over a year ago

Driffield

"Oh dear the remainers are going to be in their element after the latest bad news

Growth better than expected and nissan going to build two new models here

Only since the Nissan UK Chief Executive had a private meeting with Theresa May, looks like we are going back to the days of subsidising companies in order to keep people in work.

May so obviously pledged to cover any future tariff costs that might be incurred by Nissan when exporting into the EU.

According to the Spectator last week that could mean a tariff subsidy of around £900 average per car exported into the EU.

I don't agree with propping up companies."

I'm not sure how you know that May pledged to cover tariff costs as according to the news no one else seems to know.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

"Oh dear the remainers are going to be in their element after the latest bad news

Growth better than expected and nissan going to build two new models here

Only since the Nissan UK Chief Executive had a private meeting with Theresa May, looks like we are going back to the days of subsidising companies in order to keep people in work.

May so obviously pledged to cover any future tariff costs that might be incurred by Nissan when exporting into the EU.

According to the Spectator last week that could mean a tariff subsidy of around £900 average per car exported into the EU.

I don't agree with propping up companies.

me neither but if we were forced to trade under WTO tariffs the government would have a surplus of £8 billion pounds and do you really think EU companies will stand for that?"

I totally understand what you mean, but the danger is that this is just the first of many instances of this happening.

I'm delighted for the current and future Nissan workers as unemployment is a terrible thing to endure, but I struggle to accept the practice of paying sweetners to retain jobs.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

"Oh dear the remainers are going to be in their element after the latest bad news

Growth better than expected and nissan going to build two new models here

Only since the Nissan UK Chief Executive had a private meeting with Theresa May, looks like we are going back to the days of subsidising companies in order to keep people in work.

May so obviously pledged to cover any future tariff costs that might be incurred by Nissan when exporting into the EU.

According to the Spectator last week that could mean a tariff subsidy of around £900 average per car exported into the EU.

I don't agree with propping up companies.

I'm not sure how you know that May pledged to cover tariff costs as according to the news no one else seems to know.

Because that is EXACTLY what Nissan openly stated that was what would be needed before their meeting with May last Monday.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

I've always said that to me the obvious answer was yes to the free movement of EU citizens, but with the proviso of Visas in order to work.

Maybe the EU thought that was too simple an idea...

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oo hot OP Couple over a year ago

North West

Well, it appears that Nissan are staying in Britain and investing millions so that's pissed on a few peoples fireworks.

Why on earth would that piss people off? There can't be anyone who would be happy at anything but this news. You would have to be a bit sick in the head to think that anyone would rejoice about job losses, no investment and the relocation of businesses abroad. What is ironic is that something that would have happened anyway is now being celebrated as a great victory???

The concern is that the decision has been made after a private meeting with Theresa May who assured them that the Govt would do whatever was needed to ensure that they (Nissan) can remain competitive. What does that mean? That could mean subsidies, it could mean a full scale reversal of Brexit - it could mean absolutely anything.

Theresa May is also trying to assure the banking sector that they won't lose their passporting rights and have assured them that "this govt will do whatever is needed to ensure that United Kingdom can retain its place as the worlds foremost banking centre." - Sounds familiar?

Essentially what is being said here is that Brexit means Brexit in as much as the UK is looking to leave the EU but commercially nothing is being ruled in and nothing is being ruled out.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Oh dear the remainers are going to be in their element after the latest bad news

Growth better than expected and nissan going to build two new models here

Only since the Nissan UK Chief Executive had a private meeting with Theresa May, looks like we are going back to the days of subsidising companies in order to keep people in work.

May so obviously pledged to cover any future tariff costs that might be incurred by Nissan when exporting into the EU.

According to the Spectator last week that could mean a tariff subsidy of around £900 average per car exported into the EU.

I don't agree with propping up companies.

I'm not sure how you know that May pledged to cover tariff costs as according to the news no one else seems to know.

Because that is EXACTLY what Nissan openly stated that was what would be needed before their meeting with May last Monday."

That is what Nissan asked but there are no reports yet of what May promised.

"Ghosn said on Friday: “Following our productive meeting, I am confident the government will continue to ensure the UK remains a competitive place to do business.”

There is no report to say that any tariff costs would be covered. So they might or might not.

In other breaking news, Remoaners can raise their concerns that Hornby are raising the prices of their model trains ...

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Oh dear the remainers are going to be in their element after the latest bad news

Growth better than expected and nissan going to build two new models here

not heard anyone say that they don't want what's best for the UK in the direction we are now going..

same as before the vote no one from either side was saying the same..

the direction of travel is set, but there's no issue with questioning if the driver knows what the route is and whether they actually have a map..

or checked the tank has enough fuel etc..

the news about Sunderland and Nissan is good for those in that and the associated industries needed..

interesting that there is no information on what the 'support' is they have achieved from HMG..

and does it indicate that the direction of travel will be on the soft route as opposed to the hard one..

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

The official statement from Nissan....

".....we are therefore happy to announce that Sunderland will build both the X-Trail and the new Qasqai model thanks to government support and assurances".

'Support and assurances'.......what support and assurances could May possibly offer that didn't include subsidising any possible future tariff costs?

May had to get the Nissan situation absolutely right, if she had failed to keep Nissan happy then it would be a domino effect with other UK based foreign companies.....She needs to retain the confidence of these companies or Brexit will cause panic in the economy.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The official statement from Nissan....

".....we are therefore happy to announce that Sunderland will build both the X-Trail and the new Qasqai model thanks to government support and assurances".

'Support and assurances'.......what support and assurances could May possibly offer that didn't include subsidising any possible future tariff costs?

Who knows what she offered? Whatever it was, it seems to have done the trick.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *tillup4funMan over a year ago

Wakefield

"Oh dear the remainers are going to be in their element after the latest bad news

Growth better than expected and nissan going to build two new models here

Only since the Nissan UK Chief Executive had a private meeting with Theresa May, looks like we are going back to the days of subsidising companies in order to keep people in work.

May so obviously pledged to cover any future tariff costs that might be incurred by Nissan when exporting into the EU.

According to the Spectator last week that could mean a tariff subsidy of around £900 average per car exported into the EU.

I don't agree with propping up companies."

Were you at the meeting then if not YOU don't know any more than the rest of us.

Pure speculation from the Speculator.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Oh dear the remainers are going to be in their element after the latest bad news

Growth better than expected and nissan going to build two new models here

Only since the Nissan UK Chief Executive had a private meeting with Theresa May, looks like we are going back to the days of subsidising companies in order to keep people in work.

May so obviously pledged to cover any future tariff costs that might be incurred by Nissan when exporting into the EU.

According to the Spectator last week that could mean a tariff subsidy of around £900 average per car exported into the EU.

I don't agree with propping up companies.

Were you at the meeting then if not YOU don't know any more than the rest of us.

Pure speculation from the Speculator.

it use to be commonplace that incentives and support was agreed to get a company to open a factory..

Commercial confidentiality etc aside the reasons the details are not being given is to not have the next lot who talk about moving to the EU knowing what they can bid for..

all well and good but when it gets to the point that we are having these arrangements and they add to the current debt then that's not want anyone wants, its about viability..

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *tillup4funMan over a year ago

Wakefield

"Oh dear the remainers are going to be in their element after the latest bad news

Growth better than expected and nissan going to build two new models here

Only since the Nissan UK Chief Executive had a private meeting with Theresa May, looks like we are going back to the days of subsidising companies in order to keep people in work.

May so obviously pledged to cover any future tariff costs that might be incurred by Nissan when exporting into the EU.

According to the Spectator last week that could mean a tariff subsidy of around £900 average per car exported into the EU.

I don't agree with propping up companies.

Were you at the meeting then if not YOU don't know any more than the rest of us.

Pure speculation from the Speculator.

it use to be commonplace that incentives and support was agreed to get a company to open a factory..

Commercial confidentiality etc aside the reasons the details are not being given is to not have the next lot who talk about moving to the EU knowing what they can bid for..

all well and good but when it gets to the point that we are having these arrangements and they add to the current debt then that's not want anyone wants, its about viability.. "

Same as May not wanting the EU to know what we want until the right time to let them know, but EVERYONE is asking for clarity on she will be asking for wanting to let the cat out of the bag too soon.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Oh dear the remainers are going to be in their element after the latest bad news

Growth better than expected and nissan going to build two new models here

Only since the Nissan UK Chief Executive had a private meeting with Theresa May, looks like we are going back to the days of subsidising companies in order to keep people in work.

May so obviously pledged to cover any future tariff costs that might be incurred by Nissan when exporting into the EU.

According to the Spectator last week that could mean a tariff subsidy of around £900 average per car exported into the EU.

I don't agree with propping up companies.

Were you at the meeting then if not YOU don't know any more than the rest of us.

Pure speculation from the Speculator.

it use to be commonplace that incentives and support was agreed to get a company to open a factory..

Commercial confidentiality etc aside the reasons the details are not being given is to not have the next lot who talk about moving to the EU knowing what they can bid for..

all well and good but when it gets to the point that we are having these arrangements and they add to the current debt then that's not want anyone wants, its about viability..

Same as May not wanting the EU to know what we want until the right time to let them know, but EVERYONE is asking for clarity on she will be asking for wanting to let the cat out of the bag too soon.

agree a running commentary is not ideal as every time something is released the minutia will be picked over, but I still want Parliament to scrutinise the deal when its time..

if May goes with a deal that is not dissimilar to what we have now then I suspect those who voted to leave will also want some sort of look see..

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Oh dear the remainers are going to be in their element after the latest bad news

Growth better than expected and nissan going to build two new models here

Only since the Nissan UK Chief Executive had a private meeting with Theresa May, looks like we are going back to the days of subsidising companies in order to keep people in work.

May so obviously pledged to cover any future tariff costs that might be incurred by Nissan when exporting into the EU.

According to the Spectator last week that could mean a tariff subsidy of around £900 average per car exported into the EU.

I don't agree with propping up companies.

Were you at the meeting then if not YOU don't know any more than the rest of us.

Pure speculation from the Speculator.

it use to be commonplace that incentives and support was agreed to get a company to open a factory..

Commercial confidentiality etc aside the reasons the details are not being given is to not have the next lot who talk about moving to the EU knowing what they can bid for..

all well and good but when it gets to the point that we are having these arrangements and they add to the current debt then that's not want anyone wants, its about viability..

Same as May not wanting the EU to know what we want until the right time to let them know, but EVERYONE is asking for clarity on she will be asking for wanting to let the cat out of the bag too soon.

agree a running commentary is not ideal as every time something is released the minutia will be picked over, but I still want Parliament to scrutinise the deal when its time..

if May goes with a deal that is not dissimilar to what we have now then I suspect those who voted to leave will also want some sort of look see..

Rather unlikely that she would formally ratify a deal without knowing what that deal is.

Until that time comes, you don't show your hand until you have to.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Oh dear the remainers are going to be in their element after the latest bad news

Growth better than expected and nissan going to build two new models here

Thought everyone was leaving the UK.

Apparently Nissan are remainers. Car production is remaining in Sunderland in post Brexit Britain!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

One of the major arguments for Brexit was to slash the costs for UK membership, it was plastered over buses and billboards all over the country, it featured just about every day on the news in the lead up to the referendum....

£350 million a week can be saved for the NHS!

Subsidies can come in all forms, direct tariff compensation, reduction in taxes, land cost subsidies, very much like the government did when Nissan opened Sunderland back in the 80's, virtually giving them a 250 acre disused airport for the site of their factory free of charge.

And in order to kick start a major manufacturing start up it can be very important and vital to an area of high unemployment as Sunderland was at that time.

But we can't just throw money at companies who hint at leaving, no more than we can with major overseas banks threatening to leave London.

Or that £350 million EU membership a week will be the least of our long term problems for UK PLC.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"One of the major arguments for Brexit was to slash the costs for UK membership, it was plastered over buses and billboards all over the country, it featured just about every day on the news in the lead up to the referendum....

£350 million a week can be saved for the NHS!

And in order to kick start a major manufacturing start up it can be very important and vital to an area of high unemployment as Sunderland was at that time.

But we can't just throw money at companies who hint at leaving, no more than we can with major overseas banks threatening to leave London.

Or that £350 million EU membership a week will be the least of our long term problems for UK PLC."

It may well be that when we leave, we will be free to subsidise our industries in the way we choose to do so. Who knows? It is up for grabs now.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *tillup4funMan over a year ago

Wakefield

£350 million a week can be saved for the NHS!

And in order to kick start a major manufacturing start up it can be very important and vital to an area of high unemployment as Sunderland was at that time.

But we can't just throw money at companies who hint at leaving, no more than we can with major overseas banks threatening to leave London.

Or that £350 million EU membership a week will be the least of our long term problems for UK PLC."

If they are going what are they waiting for why are they still here? Simple just like the rest of us they don't know what its going to be like in 2 or 3 years just like we don't.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oo hot OP Couple over a year ago

North West

It may well be that when we leave, we will be free to subsidise our industries in the way we choose to do so. Who knows? It is up for grabs now."

Why would anyone want to do that?

The thought of a future where the UK has to bribe businesses to stay here is not one I think many people would want or hope for.

Although with our shit for brains foreign secretary and trade minister both wanting free trade deals with India and China I can't see that whatever is left of our manufacturing industry doing anything other than disappearing unless they became massively state subsidised.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

£350 million a week can be saved for the NHS!

And in order to kick start a major manufacturing start up it can be very important and vital to an area of high unemployment as Sunderland was at that time.

But we can't just throw money at companies who hint at leaving, no more than we can with major overseas banks threatening to leave London.

Or that £350 million EU membership a week will be the least of our long term problems for UK PLC.

If they are going what are they waiting for why are they still here? Simple just like the rest of us they don't know what its going to be like in 2 or 3 years just like we don't. "

Well after Nissans announcement this morning they will all be waiting in the queue to see Mrs May as she has set a precedent that they will all want a slice of.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

£350 million a week can be saved for the NHS!

And in order to kick start a major manufacturing start up it can be very important and vital to an area of high unemployment as Sunderland was at that time.

But we can't just throw money at companies who hint at leaving, no more than we can with major overseas banks threatening to leave London.

Or that £350 million EU membership a week will be the least of our long term problems for UK PLC.

It may well be that when we leave, we will be free to subsidise our industries in the way we choose to do so. Who knows? It is up for grabs now."

not that I think we'll need to but like you say we will be free to do so if we choose. Under EU rules we couldn't. What strange people to look for negatives in good news

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

They certainly don't know what the rest of a Europe will be like. With half of the economies in free fall. The best economies barely standing still and the Euro's survival still in doubt but for being propped up by German banks and dodgy dealing/loading impossible austerity on countries like a Greece.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

£350 million a week can be saved for the NHS!

And in order to kick start a major manufacturing start up it can be very important and vital to an area of high unemployment as Sunderland was at that time.

But we can't just throw money at companies who hint at leaving, no more than we can with major overseas banks threatening to leave London.

Or that £350 million EU membership a week will be the least of our long term problems for UK PLC.

It may well be that when we leave, we will be free to subsidise our industries in the way we choose to do so. Who knows? It is up for grabs now.

not that I think we'll need to but like you say we will be free to do so if we choose. Under EU rules we couldn't. What strange people to look for negatives in good news"

It's not illegal for EU members to subsidise companies if it can be proven that it is likely to increase employment in that immediate geographical area.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

If you want to see proof of how government interference in industry works just take a look at why Tata Port Talbot couldn't make steel as cheap as the Chinese could make it and ship it halfway across the world....subsidising and discount dumping, it never ends well.

The Tories are already talking to the City of London in a major effort to keep overseas banks in the capital, God knows what they are promising them in way of tax benefits.....economists are already dubbing London as potentially 'Singapore on Thames'

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

£350 million a week can be saved for the NHS!

And in order to kick start a major manufacturing start up it can be very important and vital to an area of high unemployment as Sunderland was at that time.

But we can't just throw money at companies who hint at leaving, no more than we can with major overseas banks threatening to leave London.

Or that £350 million EU membership a week will be the least of our long term problems for UK PLC.

It may well be that when we leave, we will be free to subsidise our industries in the way we choose to do so. Who knows? It is up for grabs now.

not that I think we'll need to but like you say we will be free to do so if we choose. Under EU rules we couldn't. What strange people to look for negatives in good news

It's not illegal for EU members to subsidise companies if it can be proven that it is likely to increase employment in that immediate geographical area.

The general principle is that state aid is not permitted. There are exceptions to the rule - and, yes, assisted areas are more likely to receive aid if applied for.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/state-aid

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

£350 million a week can be saved for the NHS!

And in order to kick start a major manufacturing start up it can be very important and vital to an area of high unemployment as Sunderland was at that time.

But we can't just throw money at companies who hint at leaving, no more than we can with major overseas banks threatening to leave London.

Or that £350 million EU membership a week will be the least of our long term problems for UK PLC.

It may well be that when we leave, we will be free to subsidise our industries in the way we choose to do so. Who knows? It is up for grabs now.

not that I think we'll need to but like you say we will be free to do so if we choose. Under EU rules we couldn't. What strange people to look for negatives in good news

It's not illegal for EU members to subsidise companies if it can be proven that it is likely to increase employment in that immediate geographical area.

The general principle is that state aid is not permitted. There are exceptions to the rule - and, yes, assisted areas are more likely to receive aid if applied for.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/state-aid"

Yes I'm only too aware, if we had opened our business 42 miles down the road in Cornwall we would have done so far cheaper.....

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If you want to see proof of how government interference in industry works just take a look at why Tata Port Talbot couldn't make steel as cheap as the Chinese could make it and ship it halfway across the world....subsidising and discount dumping, it never ends well.

Well, it may be that if we had not been part of the EU, then we might have been able to shore up Tata. I don't know whether to do so would have been a wise economic move, but we might at least have had the choice.

As for the Tories engaging with the City, what would you expect? Would you prefer that they ignored the City?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

economists with any nous are already figuring out the benefit of leaving the EU. And I'm obviously not talking about the ones who are funded by the EU and USA

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

Areas of social deprivation and high unemployment are legible for state (and EU) aid.

Sunderland needed and thoroughly deserved to have Nissan build their factory there, it was a great boost for the area, not only to the workers but to all associated businesses and services.

It all depends how the current government sees Brexit going, May had no choice but to butter up Nissan at this time, it sends out positive messages to other foreign UK based companies that the UK government won't hang them out to dry.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

So when the PM say's in future that Britain's open for business, should she also do an over exaggerated couple of winks..

maybe tap her pocket too..

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

As for the Tories engaging with the City, what would you expect? Would you prefer that they ignored the City?"

I think you will find that in my previous posts in these forums that I fully understand and appreciate the importance of the City to the UK economy.....you assume wrong

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

economists with any nous are already figuring out the benefit of leaving the EU. And I'm obviously not talking about the ones who are funded by the EU and USA"

You mean the ones that you personally deem to have any nous if and only if they agree with you, regardless of their experience and expertise.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

economists with any nous are already figuring out the benefit of leaving the EU. And I'm obviously not talking about the ones who are funded by the EU and USA

You mean the ones that you personally deem to have any nous if and only if they agree with you, regardless of their experience and expertise."

nope. Independants

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

economists with any nous are already figuring out the benefit of leaving the EU. And I'm obviously not talking about the ones who are funded by the EU and USA

You mean the ones that you personally deem to have any nous if and only if they agree with you, regardless of their experience and expertise.

nope. Independants"

You are free to have any personal views, providing they match my views, if not you must be wrong.....that type of independent?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Be interesting to see the result if there was a referendum on maintaining the United Kingdom. Do the English really want to keep Scotland and Northern Ireland as the last part of empire or would they be happier as a strong focused smaller nation

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"Areas of social deprivation and high unemployment are legible for state (and EU) aid.

Sunderland needed and thoroughly deserved to have Nissan build their factory there, it was a great boost for the area, not only to the workers but to all associated businesses and services.

Reported on sky news that the government said the "support and assurances" offered to Nissan do not amount to state aid and there is no special deal on the table for Nissan or the automotive industry in general. One of the top Nissan bosses in the UK also appeared on sky news to confirm what the government had said. One of the "support and assurances" offered by the government is to improve infrastructure and road links around the Nissan factory and the government had already committed to do that before the referendum anyway.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *isandreTV/TS over a year ago

Hartlepool

As for the Tories engaging with the City, what would you expect? Would you prefer that they ignored the City?"

We could have done that while still in the EU.

You have fallen for....not Brexit lies necessarily, not even Tory lies though it was them in power, but general Government lies.

Over the years Governments have been quite willing to misdirect bad policy decisions and consequences onto the shoulders of the EU instead of their own. This came back to bite them in the referendum as the meme was set in the publics psyche.

This is another example. The EU themselves said there were ways to help the British Steel industry. The government chose not to.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

Well, it appears that Nissan are staying in Britain and investing millions so that's pissed on a few peoples fireworks.

They have, and that's good news. However one swallow doesn't make a summer and, as already said, this is only puts Nissan where it would have been if there was no BTEXIT.

So it is good news but only because it's not the bad news many feared.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"Oh dear the remainers are going to be in their element after the latest bad news

Growth better than expected and nissan going to build two new models here

Only since the Nissan UK Chief Executive had a private meeting with Theresa May, looks like we are going back to the days of subsidising companies in order to keep people in work.

May so obviously pledged to cover any future tariff costs that might be incurred by Nissan when exporting into the EU.

According to the Spectator last week that could mean a tariff subsidy of around £900 average per car exported into the EU.

I don't agree with propping up companies.

me neither but if we were forced to trade under WTO tariffs the government would have a surplus of £8 billion pounds and do you really think EU companies will stand for that?"

Where does this £8 billion come from and what to you mean when you say EU companies will not stand for that?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Oh dear the remainers are going to be in their element after the latest bad news

Growth better than expected and nissan going to build two new models here

Only since the Nissan UK Chief Executive had a private meeting with Theresa May, looks like we are going back to the days of subsidising companies in order to keep people in work.

May so obviously pledged to cover any future tariff costs that might be incurred by Nissan when exporting into the EU.

According to the Spectator last week that could mean a tariff subsidy of around £900 average per car exported into the EU.

I don't agree with propping up companies.

me neither but if we were forced to trade under WTO tariffs the government would have a surplus of £8 billion pounds and do you really think EU companies will stand for that?

Where does this £8 billion come from and what to you mean when you say EU companies will not stand for that?"

The 8 billion comes from the tariffs on imports as we are a nett importer from the EU, check it for yourself. And EU companies will not stand for their goods being more expensive hence more difficult to sell to the UK when we could go elsewhere for them. The UK holds all the cards

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"Oh dear the remainers are going to be in their element after the latest bad news

Growth better than expected and nissan going to build two new models here

Only since the Nissan UK Chief Executive had a private meeting with Theresa May, looks like we are going back to the days of subsidising companies in order to keep people in work.

May so obviously pledged to cover any future tariff costs that might be incurred by Nissan when exporting into the EU.

According to the Spectator last week that could mean a tariff subsidy of around £900 average per car exported into the EU.

I don't agree with propping up companies.

It's not legal under EU rules to subsidise companies in this way and, whilst once out of the EU we would not be bound by those rules, the EU could impose additional anti-dumping tariffs on vehicles if they consider those to be anti-competitive subsidises. Unfortunately, under WTO rules, they would be aloud to do this but, under the same WTO rules, we would not be able to put extra tariffs on their cars above what we put on any other nation, unless we could show that they to were subsidising their car industry.

You may think by leaving the EU we've taken back control of are international trade in some way but the reality is is that all we'll have done is pass control from a European institution (the EU), which some say was not democratic enough and others say was too democratic, to an international institution (the WTO) which has undisputedly no democratic accountability at all. Either way we'll still have to obey the rules.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

As for the Tories engaging with the City, what would you expect? Would you prefer that they ignored the City?

We could have done that while still in the EU.

You have fallen for....not Brexit lies necessarily, not even Tory lies though it was them in power, but general Government lies.

This is another example. The EU themselves said there were ways to help the British Steel industry. The government chose not to."

I hadn't heard of the suggestions from the EU as to how we could have helped TATA. I am not saying it didn't happen. Just interested in the suggestions.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"Oh dear the remainers are going to be in their element after the latest bad news

Growth better than expected and nissan going to build two new models here

Only since the Nissan UK Chief Executive had a private meeting with Theresa May, looks like we are going back to the days of subsidising companies in order to keep people in work.

May so obviously pledged to cover any future tariff costs that might be incurred by Nissan when exporting into the EU.

According to the Spectator last week that could mean a tariff subsidy of around £900 average per car exported into the EU.

I don't agree with propping up companies.

I'm not sure how you know that May pledged to cover tariff costs as according to the news no one else seems to know.

I don't think she has because that could create even more problems, as I pointed out in my last post above. It would be interesting to find out what she had offered, if anything at all.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Areas of social deprivation and high unemployment are legible for state (and EU) aid.

Sunderland needed and thoroughly deserved to have Nissan build their factory there, it was a great boost for the area, not only to the workers but to all associated businesses and services.

well with all that already in place makes one wonder why Nissan had any concerns at all, and bothered to raise them and indeed why the PM met to explain it all again..

hey ho..

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Areas of social deprivation and high unemployment are legible for state (and EU) aid.

Sunderland needed and thoroughly deserved to have Nissan build their factory there, it was a great boost for the area, not only to the workers but to all associated businesses and services.

well with all that already in place makes one wonder why Nissan had any concerns at all, and bothered to raise them and indeed why the PM met to explain it all again..

hey ho..

Because Nissan are a commercial organisation wishing to secure benefit and because May recognises it's importance in the North East and in the Brexit debate.

Sheesh, you would be complaining if she ignored them.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

£350 million a week can be saved for the NHS!

And in order to kick start a major manufacturing start up it can be very important and vital to an area of high unemployment as Sunderland was at that time.

But we can't just throw money at companies who hint at leaving, no more than we can with major overseas banks threatening to leave London.

Or that £350 million EU membership a week will be the least of our long term problems for UK PLC.

It may well be that when we leave, we will be free to subsidise our industries in the way we choose to do so. Who knows? It is up for grabs now."

Know we won't. WTO rules allow for additional tariffs to applied on goods that have had unfair or anti-competitive subsidised applied to them.

I thought BREXIT was meant to be about free trade not subsidised aid. Guess that was another thing they forgot to mention.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

£350 million a week can be saved for the NHS!

And in order to kick start a major manufacturing start up it can be very important and vital to an area of high unemployment as Sunderland was at that time.

But we can't just throw money at companies who hint at leaving, no more than we can with major overseas banks threatening to leave London.

Or that £350 million EU membership a week will be the least of our long term problems for UK PLC.

It may well be that when we leave, we will be free to subsidise our industries in the way we choose to do so. Who knows? It is up for grabs now.

not that I think we'll need to but like you say we will be free to do so if we choose. Under EU rules we couldn't. What strange people to look for negatives in good news"

We can't really under WTO rules either.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

economists with any nous are already figuring out the benefit of leaving the EU. And I'm obviously not talking about the ones who are funded by the EU and USA"

Can you provide a link to what they're saying, their names or the names of the organisations they represent so we can see for ourselves?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Areas of social deprivation and high unemployment are legible for state (and EU) aid.

Sunderland needed and thoroughly deserved to have Nissan build their factory there, it was a great boost for the area, not only to the workers but to all associated businesses and services.

well with all that already in place makes one wonder why Nissan had any concerns at all, and bothered to raise them and indeed why the PM met to explain it all again..

hey ho..

Because Nissan are a commercial organisation wishing to secure benefit and because May recognises it's importance in the North East and in the Brexit debate.

Sheesh, you would be complaining if she ignored them."

Nope and clearly stated earlier it's good news for the plant..

no one on any side of the debate will argue its a bad thing that we maintain such industries here..

just wondering why there was any need for all the concern's raised by Nissan post the vote and the subsequent meetings if they already knew there would be infrastructure improvements..

and lets be honest anyone buying that line from both is truly putting their head in the sand..

expect more news about improved lighting, new bins in the city of London financial areas and new footpaths and landscaping when the other companies raise their concerns..

who'd a thought that the PM would be discussing such stuff, although she is said to micro manage its stretching it..

wonder if her and the boss of Nissan discussed how many drains etc in the new bit of road..

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"Be interesting to see the result if there was a referendum on maintaining the United Kingdom. Do the English really want to keep Scotland and Northern Ireland as the last part of empire or would they be happier as a strong focused smaller nation"

Ireland and Scotland were never aquisitions of empire, they were part of the United Kingdon of Great Britain and Ireland. The United Kingdon proceeded the Empire by more than 100 years. It was called the British Empire, not the English Empire, for a reason. Many of the most successful colonies of empire were in fact Scottish territory before becoming British (Hong Kong, Belize). Even the claim to the Irish Crown had stronger roots in the Scottish Crown than the English. The reality is is that neither Scotland nor (Northern) Ireland were or are vestiges of Empire and that Scotland was always more in favour of the whole empire project than England ever was.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

economists with any nous are already figuring out the benefit of leaving the EU. And I'm obviously not talking about the ones who are funded by the EU and USA

Can you provide a link to what they're saying, their names or the names of the organisations they represent so we can see for ourselves?"

look up the report from the Treasury about what independant economists have to say now for a start. Not that you should take much notice of economists one way or another. But the key word is independant

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"Areas of social deprivation and high unemployment are legible for state (and EU) aid.

Sunderland needed and thoroughly deserved to have Nissan build their factory there, it was a great boost for the area, not only to the workers but to all associated businesses and services.

I think you're right and it is good news. I think whatever happens with regard to BREXIT we must make sure that Free Trading Britain is a free trading Britain and not a subsidised aid Britain.

Although I don't believe everything is going to go this well and it's only good news because it's not the bad news many feared, this is still good news and I'm very glad to hear it.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"Oh dear the remainers are going to be in their element after the latest bad news

Growth better than expected and nissan going to build two new models here

Only since the Nissan UK Chief Executive had a private meeting with Theresa May, looks like we are going back to the days of subsidising companies in order to keep people in work.

May so obviously pledged to cover any future tariff costs that might be incurred by Nissan when exporting into the EU.

According to the Spectator last week that could mean a tariff subsidy of around £900 average per car exported into the EU.

I don't agree with propping up companies.

me neither but if we were forced to trade under WTO tariffs the government would have a surplus of £8 billion pounds and do you really think EU companies will stand for that?

Where does this £8 billion come from and what to you mean when you say EU companies will not stand for that?

Thanks for the clarification. It was a genuine question.

I'm not sure that £8 billion is going to go as far as you think.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

As for the Tories engaging with the City, what would you expect? Would you prefer that they ignored the City?

We could have done that while still in the EU.

You have fallen for....not Brexit lies necessarily, not even Tory lies though it was them in power, but general Government lies.

This is another example. The EU themselves said there were ways to help the British Steel industry. The government chose not to.

I hadn't heard of the suggestions from the EU as to how we could have helped TATA. I am not saying it didn't happen. Just interested in the suggestions."

Other countries in the EU protected their steal industries by imposing anti-dumping measures. In fact not only did the UK not take the same measures it actively tried to stop the EU from taking them. TATA steal problem is a totally British made problem not EU.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oo hot OP Couple over a year ago

North West

economists with any nous are already figuring out the benefit of leaving the EU. And I'm obviously not talking about the ones who are funded by the EU and USA

Can you provide a link to what they're saying, their names or the names of the organisations they represent so we can see for ourselves?

Nope - Nothing to be found, only a Daily Telegraph article from back in April by Raoul Ruparel (now working for David Davis as Brexit Spin Manager) and a group of economists headed up by Dr Gerard Lyons, Chief Economic Adviser to Boris Johnson.

You did say independent didn't you?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"Areas of social deprivation and high unemployment are legible for state (and EU) aid.

Sunderland needed and thoroughly deserved to have Nissan build their factory there, it was a great boost for the area, not only to the workers but to all associated businesses and services.

well with all that already in place makes one wonder why Nissan had any concerns at all, and bothered to raise them and indeed why the PM met to explain it all again..

hey ho..

Well we do for all intents and purposes have a new government now. The infrastructure spending commitments made before the referendum were done by David Cameron and George Osborne. Now Cameron and Osborne have gone, maybe Nissan wanted an upfront and personal meeting with the new Prime Minister Theresa May for face to face assurance those infrastructure improvements around the Nissan plant would still take place.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Areas of social deprivation and high unemployment are legible for state (and EU) aid.

Sunderland needed and thoroughly deserved to have Nissan build their factory there, it was a great boost for the area, not only to the workers but to all associated businesses and services.

well with all that already in place makes one wonder why Nissan had any concerns at all, and bothered to raise them and indeed why the PM met to explain it all again..

hey ho..

nice try, semi plausible if there was a change of party but its the same lot and a bit of infrastructure in Sunderland is not like Hs2..

granted Hammond has and is looking to do things differently than Osborne but this if it was as you say sorted before would not change materially..

why would it especially after the vote..

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

economists with any nous are already figuring out the benefit of leaving the EU. And I'm obviously not talking about the ones who are funded by the EU and USA

Can you provide a link to what they're saying, their names or the names of the organisations they represent so we can see for ourselves?

You did say independent didn't you?"

yep. Try the Treasury report from 27th September. Or read what the head of financial services, Miles Cilac (might have spelt his name wrong) had to say

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *arry247Couple over a year ago

Wakefield

"There is a thing called democracy. It works well in the EU when all member states (and if applicable devolved regions) have to agree even for things like trade deals.

I have said on a previous thread and I will reiterate here, the Brexit vote was the beginning of a process that will see English politicians destroy the union. "

Pity you totally miss the point.

In a democracy the people vote for their representative in the Commons and then leave the decisions to the resultant government.

As for Brexit the people of the UK were given a referendum where the result was a vote to leave the EU.

It is now up to the Government to carry that decision through and leave the EU.

Parliament will then have forever to mull over the decisions made and raise objections and vote on the results changing whatever the majority decide needs changing.

If the MPs make decisions the electorate disagree with the electorate will have the opportunity not to vote for them in the next General Election.

That is done after we leave the EU.

That is democracy; to do otherwise is to run roughshod over the democratic will of the people.

Don’t fall for the bleatings of the opposition they just want to derail brexit

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ammskiMan over a year ago

lytham st.annes

"There is a thing called democracy. It works well in the EU when all member states (and if applicable devolved regions) have to agree even for things like trade deals.

I have said on a previous thread and I will reiterate here, the Brexit vote was the beginning of a process that will see English politicians destroy the union.

Pity you totally miss the point.

In a democracy the people vote for their representative in the Commons and then leave the decisions to the resultant government.

As for Brexit the people of the UK were given a referendum where the result was a vote to leave the EU.

It is now up to the Government to carry that decision through and leave the EU.

Parliament will then have forever to mull over the decisions made and raise objections and vote on the results changing whatever the majority decide needs changing.

If the MPs make decisions the electorate disagree with the electorate will have the opportunity not to vote for them in the next General Election.

That is done after we leave the EU.

That is democracy; to do otherwise is to run roughshod over the democratic will of the people.

Don’t fall for the bleatings of the opposition they just want to derail brexit

"
. Great post

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There is a thing called democracy. It works well in the EU when all member states (and if applicable devolved regions) have to agree even for things like trade deals.

I have said on a previous thread and I will reiterate here, the Brexit vote was the beginning of a process that will see English politicians destroy the union.

Pity you totally miss the point.

In a democracy the people vote for their representative in the Commons and then leave the decisions to the resultant government.

As for Brexit the people of the UK were given a referendum where the result was a vote to leave the EU.

It is now up to the Government to carry that decision through and leave the EU.

Parliament will then have forever to mull over the decisions made and raise objections and vote on the results changing whatever the majority decide needs changing.

If the MPs make decisions the electorate disagree with the electorate will have the opportunity not to vote for them in the next General Election.

That is done after we leave the EU.

That is democracy; to do otherwise is to run roughshod over the democratic will of the people.

Don’t fall for the bleatings of the opposition they just want to derail brexit

I love how hardcore leavers repeatedly said that the biggest reason to vote out wasn't immigration but the sovereignty of parliament - yet don't see the irony of embracing all aspects of parliamentary democracy.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There is a thing called democracy. It works well in the EU when all member states (and if applicable devolved regions) have to agree even for things like trade deals.

I have said on a previous thread and I will reiterate here, the Brexit vote was the beginning of a process that will see English politicians destroy the union.

Pity you totally miss the point.

In a democracy the people vote for their representative in the Commons and then leave the decisions to the resultant government.

As for Brexit the people of the UK were given a referendum where the result was a vote to leave the EU.

It is now up to the Government to carry that decision through and leave the EU.

Parliament will then have forever to mull over the decisions made and raise objections and vote on the results changing whatever the majority decide needs changing.

If the MPs make decisions the electorate disagree with the electorate will have the opportunity not to vote for them in the next General Election.

That is done after we leave the EU.

That is democracy; to do otherwise is to run roughshod over the democratic will of the people.

Don’t fall for the bleatings of the opposition they just want to derail brexit

Leavers do embrace pariiamentary democracy. Parliament vote 6 - 1 to hold a referendum and for the government to carry out the people's wishes. That is what they are doing. What is there to discuss?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There is a thing called democracy. It works well in the EU when all member states (and if applicable devolved regions) have to agree even for things like trade deals.

I have said on a previous thread and I will reiterate here, the Brexit vote was the beginning of a process that will see English politicians destroy the union.

Pity you totally miss the point.

In a democracy the people vote for their representative in the Commons and then leave the decisions to the resultant government.

As for Brexit the people of the UK were given a referendum where the result was a vote to leave the EU.

It is now up to the Government to carry that decision through and leave the EU.

Parliament will then have forever to mull over the decisions made and raise objections and vote on the results changing whatever the majority decide needs changing.

If the MPs make decisions the electorate disagree with the electorate will have the opportunity not to vote for them in the next General Election.

That is done after we leave the EU.

That is democracy; to do otherwise is to run roughshod over the democratic will of the people.

Don’t fall for the bleatings of the opposition they just want to derail brexit

"Hardcore leavers?" You mean those of us who voted to leave the EU and are not being swayed by the negativity of bitter remainers?

So you think that after voting to leave in a referendum, we should now let parliament vote on whether to accept the result? Nothing democratic there, in fact totally the opposite.

We wanted a referendum for years, we got it, we won it. Now the government has to keep their promise and take us out of the EU, all the way out.

That is democracy, the voice of the people has to be heard.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Riots at the very least

"
i predict a riot

.white riot I wanna riot lol

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There is a thing called democracy. It works well in the EU when all member states (and if applicable devolved regions) have to agree even for things like trade deals.

I have said on a previous thread and I will reiterate here, the Brexit vote was the beginning of a process that will see English politicians destroy the union.

Pity you totally miss the point.

In a democracy the people vote for their representative in the Commons and then leave the decisions to the resultant government.

As for Brexit the people of the UK were given a referendum where the result was a vote to leave the EU.

It is now up to the Government to carry that decision through and leave the EU.

Parliament will then have forever to mull over the decisions made and raise objections and vote on the results changing whatever the majority decide needs changing.

If the MPs make decisions the electorate disagree with the electorate will have the opportunity not to vote for them in the next General Election.

That is done after we leave the EU.

That is democracy; to do otherwise is to run roughshod over the democratic will of the people.

Don’t fall for the bleatings of the opposition they just want to derail brexit

"Hardcore leavers?" You mean those of us who voted to leave the EU and are not being swayed by the negativity of bitter remainers?

So you think that after voting to leave in a referendum, we should now let parliament vote on whether to accept the result? Nothing democratic there, in fact totally the opposite.

We wanted a referendum for years, we got it, we won it. Now the government has to keep their promise and take us out of the EU, all the way out.

That is democracy, the voice of the people has to be heard."

By hardcore leavers I mean those who are not willing to listen to those who have opposing views or slightly different views, and try to shout down anyone who is not going to jump on the 'cut as many ties with the EU asap without outlining the plans to the public and parliament, ship'.

I also accept that there were 'hardcore remainers' who had the same attitude reversed.

I think the majority of remain and leave voters, voted the way they did for pragmatism. By which I mean most people I've spoken to decided the way they voted after weighing things up carefully. Not because they wanted either for ages.

And as I have said various times, I am not wanting parliament to vote on whether to accept the vote - the majority voted leave therefore we need to leave.

However, what I do want is parliament to have the negotiations shared with them, a chance to inform their constituents of the negotiations and a chance to echo concerns fro those people to the brexit committee.

Perhaps a chance to vote and ratify the final negotiation. Though I fee as though that would be better put to the public, if the negotiation if rejected, then the brexit committee tweaks it. Simple as.

Simply put, not allowing parliament to at least communicate with their constituents with the knowledge of the negotiations, skips the whole point of our parliament.

Yes it would still be democracy, but not a British parliamentary democracy. And simply listening to the 52% and ignoring the 48% as it were will only set in motion a more deeply divided nation, as someone said, ignoring one set of voters, in favour of those who support you, usually breeds fascism.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There is a thing called democracy. It works well in the EU when all member states (and if applicable devolved regions) have to agree even for things like trade deals.

I have said on a previous thread and I will reiterate here, the Brexit vote was the beginning of a process that will see English politicians destroy the union.

Pity you totally miss the point.

In a democracy the people vote for their representative in the Commons and then leave the decisions to the resultant government.

As for Brexit the people of the UK were given a referendum where the result was a vote to leave the EU.

It is now up to the Government to carry that decision through and leave the EU.

Parliament will then have forever to mull over the decisions made and raise objections and vote on the results changing whatever the majority decide needs changing.

If the MPs make decisions the electorate disagree with the electorate will have the opportunity not to vote for them in the next General Election.

That is done after we leave the EU.

That is democracy; to do otherwise is to run roughshod over the democratic will of the people.

Don’t fall for the bleatings of the opposition they just want to derail brexit

Leavers do embrace pariiamentary democracy. Parliament vote 6 - 1 to hold a referendum and for the government to carry out the people's wishes. That is what they are doing. What is there to discuss?"

So you want to miss out the part of parliamentary democracy where our elected MP's get to communicate the negotiations and how it's expected they will impact the constituency?

Wow, a democratic country choosing to reduce how much democracy it utilises. This is odd. The will of one set of voters enforced with no consultation given to the other set of voters will only lead to a divided nation and potentially the rise of a left and right fascist movement.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *isandreTV/TS over a year ago

Hartlepool

Have any of these MP's and journalists wanting to find out the government's position on single market tried threatening to move a car plant overseas?

It's highly likely Nissan now knows more about govt stance on single market, Customs Union & free movement than Scotland, Wales, NI & Parliament.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Well it seems as though the Welsh have been offered a seat at the table, but not the Scots or the Northern Irish, seems very strange to me. "

. . with the reason likely being that our (Cymru) "parliament" (Sennedd) has very limited devolved powers and, despite our "First Minister" wanting a seat at the table, Wales did proportionally vote to leave the EU.

If Scotland and Ulster aren't treated well by the Brexit process than the Tories might push both towards leaving the UK simply to remain in the EU . . sooner rather than later.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There is a thing called democracy. It works well in the EU when all member states (and if applicable devolved regions) have to agree even for things like trade deals.

I have said on a previous thread and I will reiterate here, the Brexit vote was the beginning of a process that will see English politicians destroy the union.

Pity you totally miss the point.

In a democracy the people vote for their representative in the Commons and then leave the decisions to the resultant government.

As for Brexit the people of the UK were given a referendum where the result was a vote to leave the EU.

It is now up to the Government to carry that decision through and leave the EU.

Parliament will then have forever to mull over the decisions made and raise objections and vote on the results changing whatever the majority decide needs changing.

If the MPs make decisions the electorate disagree with the electorate will have the opportunity not to vote for them in the next General Election.

That is done after we leave the EU.

That is democracy; to do otherwise is to run roughshod over the democratic will of the people.

Don’t fall for the bleatings of the opposition they just want to derail brexit

Leavers do embrace pariiamentary democracy. Parliament vote 6 - 1 to hold a referendum and for the government to carry out the people's wishes. That is what they are doing. What is there to discuss?

So you want to miss out the part of parliamentary democracy where our elected MP's get to communicate the negotiations and how it's expected they will impact the constituency?

I really don't know what you're talking about. All voters were given a choice and the will of the majority is being carried out. Of course there will is being enforced over the minority, that is how it should be, that is democracy, it's quite simple. What is there to communicate to constituents now?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *isandreTV/TS over a year ago

Hartlepool

“What are your plans for Brexit, Prime Minister?”

“Are you from Nissan?”

“No”

“Then it’s a hard Brexit.”

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"“What are your plans for Brexit, Prime Minister?”

“Are you from Nissan?”

“No”

“Then it’s a hard Brexit.”"

there is only hasd Brexit, that's it. Even the numbskulls at the EU get that and have said as much

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *isandreTV/TS over a year ago

Hartlepool

There is only a hard Brexit is there?

Why can't we go the Norwegian model?

Or the Swiss?

Or some bespoke model a bit like the Canada deal?

I'm sure we were told we would be able to get what deal we wanted. We are British you know.

I see Vince Cable thinks Nissan have been told we will be seeking to remain part of the Customs Union, but if we don't get that then we'll give Nissan their tariffs back.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oo hot OP Couple over a year ago

North West

"“What are your plans for Brexit, Prime Minister?”

“Are you from Nissan?”

“No”

“Then it’s a hard Brexit.”

there is only hasd Brexit, that's it. Even the numbskulls at the EU get that and have said as much"

That is why it won't happen. Too many people will change their minds over the next two to three years and the EU will have itself evolved after the French and German elections. We will all take our places back at the dinner table saying pardon, lo siento and es tut uns leid whilst explaining that it was just us having a little hissy fit.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There is a thing called democracy. It works well in the EU when all member states (and if applicable devolved regions) have to agree even for things like trade deals.

I have said on a previous thread and I will reiterate here, the Brexit vote was the beginning of a process that will see English politicians destroy the union.

Pity you totally miss the point.

In a democracy the people vote for their representative in the Commons and then leave the decisions to the resultant government.

As for Brexit the people of the UK were given a referendum where the result was a vote to leave the EU.

It is now up to the Government to carry that decision through and leave the EU.

Parliament will then have forever to mull over the decisions made and raise objections and vote on the results changing whatever the majority decide needs changing.

If the MPs make decisions the electorate disagree with the electorate will have the opportunity not to vote for them in the next General Election.

That is done after we leave the EU.

That is democracy; to do otherwise is to run roughshod over the democratic will of the people.

Don’t fall for the bleatings of the opposition they just want to derail brexit

Leavers do embrace pariiamentary democracy. Parliament vote 6 - 1 to hold a referendum and for the government to carry out the people's wishes. That is what they are doing. What is there to discuss?

So you want to miss out the part of parliamentary democracy where our elected MP's get to communicate the negotiations and how it's expected they will impact the constituency?

Right, in all the general elections, whoever won, the opposing party holds them to account. This means MPs reflecting the needs of their constituents upon the opposition, in many cases, this leads to the winners of that GE altering or watering down their proposals to get it through parliament.

If you want a sovereign parliament, embrace all aspects of it, not some Bronze or Iron age take on democracy.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

For those who voted in the referendum with immigration very much in mind there can only be a 'Hard Brexit' route, any freedom of movement associated with the Single Market will be unacceptable for them.

That's why you will see them advocating 'Hard Brexit' and nothing less, they are very welcome to that view as its their right, but personally I would rather we keep an open mind on that score, which is my right.

I also don't agree that there should be a second 'In/Out' referendum as it just doesn't feel right to me.....however I would like to see Parliament given a vote on the terms of the Brexit negotiations as we elect these members of Parliament to help the government of the day make decisions on behalf of the nation.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *at69driveMan over a year ago

Wisbech and A47 corridor

"Well it seems as though the Welsh have been offered a seat at the table, but not the Scots or the Northern Irish, seems very strange to me.

If Scotland and Ulster aren't treated well by the Brexit process than the Tories might push both towards leaving the UK simply to remain in the EU . . sooner rather than later."
I do not think that deep down either of these countries would leave the Uk. Without the UK taxpayers money , neither country could survive.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *at69driveMan over a year ago

Wisbech and A47 corridor

"“What are your plans for Brexit, Prime Minister?”

“Are you from Nissan?”

“No”

“Then it’s a hard Brexit.”

there is only hasd Brexit, that's it. Even the numbskulls at the EU get that and have said as much

"
Why would people want to change their mind? Voters knew that this was a once in a life time opportunity and voted according .

All recent exonomic indicators are looking very positive for the UK.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There is a thing called democracy. It works well in the EU when all member states (and if applicable devolved regions) have to agree even for things like trade deals.

I have said on a previous thread and I will reiterate here, the Brexit vote was the beginning of a process that will see English politicians destroy the union.

Pity you totally miss the point.

In a democracy the people vote for their representative in the Commons and then leave the decisions to the resultant government.

As for Brexit the people of the UK were given a referendum where the result was a vote to leave the EU.

It is now up to the Government to carry that decision through and leave the EU.

Parliament will then have forever to mull over the decisions made and raise objections and vote on the results changing whatever the majority decide needs changing.

If the MPs make decisions the electorate disagree with the electorate will have the opportunity not to vote for them in the next General Election.

That is done after we leave the EU.

That is democracy; to do otherwise is to run roughshod over the democratic will of the people.

Don’t fall for the bleatings of the opposition they just want to derail brexit

Leavers do embrace pariiamentary democracy. Parliament vote 6 - 1 to hold a referendum and for the government to carry out the people's wishes. That is what they are doing. What is there to discuss?

So you want to miss out the part of parliamentary democracy where our elected MP's get to communicate the negotiations and how it's expected they will impact the constituency?

If you want a sovereign parliament, embrace all aspects of it, not some Bronze or Iron age take on democracy."

You are missing the point. All sides agreed before the referendum!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"“What are your plans for Brexit, Prime Minister?”

“Are you from Nissan?”

“No”

“Then it’s a hard Brexit.”

there is only hasd Brexit, that's it. Even the numbskulls at the EU get that and have said as much

Why would people want to change their mind? Voters knew that this was a once in a life time opportunity and voted according .

All recent exonomic indicators are looking very positive for the UK. "

its still early days and we all regardless of how we voted want a strong economy etc, give it 9 months and if its not going so well the some people will question the decision..

we are fickle in nature, well most are and you only have to look at how we elect Labour then Tory then etc etc..

people change their thinking when their personal circumstances differ, that's human nature..

the workers at Nissan were not feeling so confident last week, that changed for them yesterday..

there is still a long way to go and huge uncertainty as to what the article 50 will mean in real terms for peoples future's, before the vote forecasts were debated hotly and downplayed depending on which side of the debate one was on ..

still early days and its not about hoping its shit for us to say 'told you so', that's a ridiculous point of view..

if it goes well then all well and good but if it doesn't go well for all then some will be less than pleased and that will change minds..

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There is a thing called democracy. It works well in the EU when all member states (and if applicable devolved regions) have to agree even for things like trade deals.

I have said on a previous thread and I will reiterate here, the Brexit vote was the beginning of a process that will see English politicians destroy the union. "

Yes Please

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There is not one person who voted to remain that knew what they were voting for. Nobody knows what the EU will be in 5, 10 years time

They were voting to remain in the EU. if the EU had changed we could have left in the future had we wanted. So it mattered not one jot in casting your vote what it will be in the future.

When? When there is another referendum? Another 40 years perhaps? When treaties change? (Nope, that's already been proven not to happen).

Or they bring out a treaty banning referendums on leaving or make it illegal to leave or fine a country so heavily for leaving that it acts as a deterrent. Who knows? Like I said, nobody"

The UK government would have to approve such changes. Does your paranoia extend as far as to think they would?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There is a thing called democracy. It works well in the EU when all member states (and if applicable devolved regions) have to agree even for things like trade deals.

I have said on a previous thread and I will reiterate here, the Brexit vote was the beginning of a process that will see English politicians destroy the union.

Pity you totally miss the point.

In a democracy the people vote for their representative in the Commons and then leave the decisions to the resultant government.

As for Brexit the people of the UK were given a referendum where the result was a vote to leave the EU.

It is now up to the Government to carry that decision through and leave the EU.

Parliament will then have forever to mull over the decisions made and raise objections and vote on the results changing whatever the majority decide needs changing.

If the MPs make decisions the electorate disagree with the electorate will have the opportunity not to vote for them in the next General Election.

That is done after we leave the EU.

That is democracy; to do otherwise is to run roughshod over the democratic will of the people.

Don’t fall for the bleatings of the opposition they just want to derail brexit

Leavers do embrace pariiamentary democracy. Parliament vote 6 - 1 to hold a referendum and for the government to carry out the people's wishes. That is what they are doing. What is there to discuss?"

no the referendum was advisory. there was no guarantee it would be followed.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think you need to read up on Irish history before trying to make out NI isn't a left over of empire. We only clung on to it to protect the sea lanes in that part being closed by a hostile Irish State.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *tillup4funMan over a year ago

Wakefield

"There is a thing called democracy. It works well in the EU when all member states (and if applicable devolved regions) have to agree even for things like trade deals.

I have said on a previous thread and I will reiterate here, the Brexit vote was the beginning of a process that will see English politicians destroy the union.

Pity you totally miss the point.

In a democracy the people vote for their representative in the Commons and then leave the decisions to the resultant government.

As for Brexit the people of the UK were given a referendum where the result was a vote to leave the EU.

It is now up to the Government to carry that decision through and leave the EU.

Parliament will then have forever to mull over the decisions made and raise objections and vote on the results changing whatever the majority decide needs changing.

If the MPs make decisions the electorate disagree with the electorate will have the opportunity not to vote for them in the next General Election.

That is done after we leave the EU.

That is democracy; to do otherwise is to run roughshod over the democratic will of the people.

Don’t fall for the bleatings of the opposition they just want to derail brexit

Leavers do embrace pariiamentary democracy. Parliament vote 6 - 1 to hold a referendum and for the government to carry out the people's wishes. That is what they are doing. What is there to discuss?

no the referendum was advisory. there was no guarantee it would be followed. "

That would make it a pointless exercise David Cameron said it was a once in a life time vote and every vote counted. It was to let the people decide which we did you can argue all you want it will not change the result.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"There is a thing called democracy. It works well in the EU when all member states (and if applicable devolved regions) have to agree even for things like trade deals.

I have said on a previous thread and I will reiterate here, the Brexit vote was the beginning of a process that will see English politicians destroy the union.

Pity you totally miss the point.

In a democracy the people vote for their representative in the Commons and then leave the decisions to the resultant government.

As for Brexit the people of the UK were given a referendum where the result was a vote to leave the EU.

It is now up to the Government to carry that decision through and leave the EU.

Parliament will then have forever to mull over the decisions made and raise objections and vote on the results changing whatever the majority decide needs changing.

If the MPs make decisions the electorate disagree with the electorate will have the opportunity not to vote for them in the next General Election.

That is done after we leave the EU.

That is democracy; to do otherwise is to run roughshod over the democratic will of the people.

Don’t fall for the bleatings of the opposition they just want to derail brexit

Leavers do embrace pariiamentary democracy. Parliament vote 6 - 1 to hold a referendum and for the government to carry out the people's wishes. That is what they are doing. What is there to discuss?

no the referendum was advisory. there was no guarantee it would be followed.

The referendum was only advisory line always makes me laugh. Anyone who thinks it won't be followed is living in cloud cuckoo land.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *at69driveMan over a year ago

Wisbech and A47 corridor

"There is a thing called democracy. It works well in the EU when all member states (and if applicable devolved regions) have to agree even for things like trade deals.

I have said on a previous thread and I will reiterate here, the Brexit vote was the beginning of a process that will see English politicians destroy the union.

Pity you totally miss the point.

In a democracy the people vote for their representative in the Commons and then leave the decisions to the resultant government.

As for Brexit the people of the UK were given a referendum where the result was a vote to leave the EU.

It is now up to the Government to carry that decision through and leave the EU.

Parliament will then have forever to mull over the decisions made and raise objections and vote on the results changing whatever the majority decide needs changing.

If the MPs make decisions the electorate disagree with the electorate will have the opportunity not to vote for them in the next General Election.

That is done after we leave the EU.

That is democracy; to do otherwise is to run roughshod over the democratic will of the people.

Don’t fall for the bleatings of the opposition they just want to derail brexit

Leavers do embrace pariiamentary democracy. Parliament vote 6 - 1 to hold a referendum and for the government to carry out the people's wishes. That is what they are doing. What is there to discuss?

no the referendum was advisory. there was no guarantee it would be followed. "
So are you saying that you do not believe in democracy and want to ignore the wishes of the voters. ?

Everyone knew that this was a once in a life time opportunity and voted accordingly.

What else can there possibly be left to discuss. ?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There is not one person who voted to remain that knew what they were voting for. Nobody knows what the EU will be in 5, 10 years time

They were voting to remain in the EU. if the EU had changed we could have left in the future had we wanted. So it mattered not one jot in casting your vote what it will be in the future.

When? When there is another referendum? Another 40 years perhaps? When treaties change? (Nope, that's already been proven not to happen).

Or they bring out a treaty banning referendums on leaving or make it illegal to leave or fine a country so heavily for leaving that it acts as a deterrent. Who knows? Like I said, nobody

The UK government would have to approve such changes. Does your paranoia extend as far as to think they would?"

Why wouldn't they? Weren't most MP's in favour of remaining in the EU? The point I was trying to make is that noboy knows what the EU will come out with next or what the next treaty will be. Unless you can tell us?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There is a thing called democracy. It works well in the EU when all member states (and if applicable devolved regions) have to agree even for things like trade deals.

I have said on a previous thread and I will reiterate here, the Brexit vote was the beginning of a process that will see English politicians destroy the union.

Pity you totally miss the point.

In a democracy the people vote for their representative in the Commons and then leave the decisions to the resultant government.

As for Brexit the people of the UK were given a referendum where the result was a vote to leave the EU.

It is now up to the Government to carry that decision through and leave the EU.

Parliament will then have forever to mull over the decisions made and raise objections and vote on the results changing whatever the majority decide needs changing.

If the MPs make decisions the electorate disagree with the electorate will have the opportunity not to vote for them in the next General Election.

That is done after we leave the EU.

That is democracy; to do otherwise is to run roughshod over the democratic will of the people.

Don’t fall for the bleatings of the opposition they just want to derail brexit

Leavers do embrace pariiamentary democracy. Parliament vote 6 - 1 to hold a referendum and for the government to carry out the people's wishes. That is what they are doing. What is there to discuss?

no the referendum was advisory. there was no guarantee it would be followed.

pointless or not. it was an advisory referendum as laid out in the act of parliament.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There is a thing called democracy. It works well in the EU when all member states (and if applicable devolved regions) have to agree even for things like trade deals.

I have said on a previous thread and I will reiterate here, the Brexit vote was the beginning of a process that will see English politicians destroy the union.

Pity you totally miss the point.

In a democracy the people vote for their representative in the Commons and then leave the decisions to the resultant government.

As for Brexit the people of the UK were given a referendum where the result was a vote to leave the EU.

It is now up to the Government to carry that decision through and leave the EU.

Parliament will then have forever to mull over the decisions made and raise objections and vote on the results changing whatever the majority decide needs changing.

If the MPs make decisions the electorate disagree with the electorate will have the opportunity not to vote for them in the next General Election.

That is done after we leave the EU.

That is democracy; to do otherwise is to run roughshod over the democratic will of the people.

Don’t fall for the bleatings of the opposition they just want to derail brexit

Leavers do embrace pariiamentary democracy. Parliament vote 6 - 1 to hold a referendum and for the government to carry out the people's wishes. That is what they are doing. What is there to discuss?

no the referendum was advisory. there was no guarantee it would be followed.

The referendum was only advisory line always makes me laugh. Anyone who thinks it won't be followed is living in cloud cuckoo land. "

We will see. the government is backtracking all the time. what do you think us in the letter they sent to Nissan?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There is not one person who voted to remain that knew what they were voting for. Nobody knows what the EU will be in 5, 10 years time

They were voting to remain in the EU. if the EU had changed we could have left in the future had we wanted. So it mattered not one jot in casting your vote what it will be in the future.

When? When there is another referendum? Another 40 years perhaps? When treaties change? (Nope, that's already been proven not to happen).

Or they bring out a treaty banning referendums on leaving or make it illegal to leave or fine a country so heavily for leaving that it acts as a deterrent. Who knows? Like I said, nobody

The UK government would have to approve such changes. Does your paranoia extend as far as to think they would?

yes paranoid

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There is a thing called democracy. It works well in the EU when all member states (and if applicable devolved regions) have to agree even for things like trade deals.

I have said on a previous thread and I will reiterate here, the Brexit vote was the beginning of a process that will see English politicians destroy the union.

Pity you totally miss the point.

In a democracy the people vote for their representative in the Commons and then leave the decisions to the resultant government.

As for Brexit the people of the UK were given a referendum where the result was a vote to leave the EU.

It is now up to the Government to carry that decision through and leave the EU.

Parliament will then have forever to mull over the decisions made and raise objections and vote on the results changing whatever the majority decide needs changing.

If the MPs make decisions the electorate disagree with the electorate will have the opportunity not to vote for them in the next General Election.

That is done after we leave the EU.

That is democracy; to do otherwise is to run roughshod over the democratic will of the people.

Don’t fall for the bleatings of the opposition they just want to derail brexit

Leavers do embrace pariiamentary democracy. Parliament vote 6 - 1 to hold a referendum and for the government to carry out the people's wishes. That is what they are doing. What is there to discuss?

no the referendum was advisory. there was no guarantee it would be followed. So are you saying that you do not believe in democracy and want to ignore the wishes of the voters. ?

Everyone knew that this was a once in a life time opportunity and voted accordingly.

What else can there possibly be left to discuss. ? "

no I'm saying what it says in the parliamentary act. go and read it if you don't belive me. oh and then tell me what brexit really means as no one least of all the government knows.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There is a thing called democracy. It works well in the EU when all member states (and if applicable devolved regions) have to agree even for things like trade deals.

I have said on a previous thread and I will reiterate here, the Brexit vote was the beginning of a process that will see English politicians destroy the union.

Pity you totally miss the point.

In a democracy the people vote for their representative in the Commons and then leave the decisions to the resultant government.

As for Brexit the people of the UK were given a referendum where the result was a vote to leave the EU.

It is now up to the Government to carry that decision through and leave the EU.

Parliament will then have forever to mull over the decisions made and raise objections and vote on the results changing whatever the majority decide needs changing.

If the MPs make decisions the electorate disagree with the electorate will have the opportunity not to vote for them in the next General Election.

That is done after we leave the EU.

That is democracy; to do otherwise is to run roughshod over the democratic will of the people.

Don’t fall for the bleatings of the opposition they just want to derail brexit

Leavers do embrace pariiamentary democracy. Parliament vote 6 - 1 to hold a referendum and for the government to carry out the people's wishes. That is what they are doing. What is there to discuss?

no the referendum was advisory. there was no guarantee it would be followed.

pointless or not. it was an advisory referendum as laid out in the act of parliament."

in which case if we had voted to remain the government could say fuck you we're leaving anyway.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There is a thing called democracy. It works well in the EU when all member states (and if applicable devolved regions) have to agree even for things like trade deals.

I have said on a previous thread and I will reiterate here, the Brexit vote was the beginning of a process that will see English politicians destroy the union.

Pity you totally miss the point.

In a democracy the people vote for their representative in the Commons and then leave the decisions to the resultant government.

As for Brexit the people of the UK were given a referendum where the result was a vote to leave the EU.

It is now up to the Government to carry that decision through and leave the EU.

Parliament will then have forever to mull over the decisions made and raise objections and vote on the results changing whatever the majority decide needs changing.

If the MPs make decisions the electorate disagree with the electorate will have the opportunity not to vote for them in the next General Election.

That is done after we leave the EU.

That is democracy; to do otherwise is to run roughshod over the democratic will of the people.

Don’t fall for the bleatings of the opposition they just want to derail brexit

Leavers do embrace pariiamentary democracy. Parliament vote 6 - 1 to hold a referendum and for the government to carry out the people's wishes. That is what they are doing. What is there to discuss?

no the referendum was advisory. there was no guarantee it would be followed. So are you saying that you do not believe in democracy and want to ignore the wishes of the voters. ?

Everyone knew that this was a once in a life time opportunity and voted accordingly.

What else can there possibly be left to discuss. ?

no I'm saying what it says in the parliamentary act. go and read it if you don't belive me. oh and then tell me what brexit really means as no one least of all the government knows."

Duh? It means the UK is leaving the EU. What else is there to know

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Duh? It means the UK is leaving the EU. What else is there to know"

maybe maybe not. and if we are on what terms? who knows.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There is a thing called democracy. It works well in the EU when all member states (and if applicable devolved regions) have to agree even for things like trade deals.

I have said on a previous thread and I will reiterate here, the Brexit vote was the beginning of a process that will see English politicians destroy the union.

Pity you totally miss the point.

In a democracy the people vote for their representative in the Commons and then leave the decisions to the resultant government.

As for Brexit the people of the UK were given a referendum where the result was a vote to leave the EU.

It is now up to the Government to carry that decision through and leave the EU.

Parliament will then have forever to mull over the decisions made and raise objections and vote on the results changing whatever the majority decide needs changing.

If the MPs make decisions the electorate disagree with the electorate will have the opportunity not to vote for them in the next General Election.

That is done after we leave the EU.

That is democracy; to do otherwise is to run roughshod over the democratic will of the people.

Don’t fall for the bleatings of the opposition they just want to derail brexit

Leavers do embrace pariiamentary democracy. Parliament vote 6 - 1 to hold a referendum and for the government to carry out the people's wishes. That is what they are doing. What is there to discuss?

no the referendum was advisory. there was no guarantee it would be followed.

pointless or not. it was an advisory referendum as laid out in the act of parliament.

in which case if we had voted to remain the government could say fuck you we're leaving anyway. "

yes thry coould because we live in a parliamentary democracy where power by definition lies with parliament.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *arry247Couple over a year ago

Wakefield

The leave campaign did not state the £350m would be spent on the NHS it stated "We send the EU £350 million a week - let's fund our NHS instead"

In other words that was a suggestion on what the £350m could be spent on

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Duh? It means the UK is leaving the EU. What else is there to know

maybe maybe not. and if we are on what terms? who knows. "

How can it mean maybe not? If that was the case it would be something else. And what do you mean what terms? There are no terms

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Duh? It means the UK is leaving the EU. What else is there to know

maybe maybe not. and if we are on what terms? who knows.

How can it mean maybe not? If that was the case it would be something else. And what do you mean what terms? There are no terms"

oh dear you are deluded.of course there are terms. do you think all involvement with the eu will just cease? why do you think there are teams of negotiators being recruited.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The leave campaign did not state the £350m would be spent on the NHS it stated "We send the EU £350 million a week - let's fund our NHS instead"

In other words that was a suggestion on what the £350m could be spent on"

but we don't send £350m.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The leave campaign did not state the £350m would be spent on the NHS it stated "We send the EU £350 million a week - let's fund our NHS instead"

In other words that was a suggestion on what the £350m could be spent on

but we don't send £350m."

I think we all know that by now. I think we all knew that before the vote. Move on.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)