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People of the progressive centre and left
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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
Interesting comment today from NicolaSturgeon ... in an interview she said she was tempted to let snp representatives run in elections in England
So if Scots referendum 2 was completely out of the question... if you are south of the border, would you vote for them if you could?? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Where's this word 'progressive' come from all of a sudden?
Oh, I am better than you and my politics are better than yours because I am progressive you see.
(Even though I haven't a clue what I'm talking about or what it means)
But in answer to the post obviously not and chances are they'd lose their deposit everywhere they stood so she won't |
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"Where's this word 'progressive' come from all of a sudden?
Oh, I am better than you and my politics are better than yours because I am progressive you see.
(Even though I haven't a clue what I'm talking about or what it means)
But in answer to the post obviously not and chances are they'd lose their deposit everywhere they stood so she won't"
The main difference between the left and right is how taxes are raised and spent. The right are champion pole and spending based taxes that favour the wealthy. These types of taxes are called regressive taxes because they take no account of income.
The left favour graduated income taxes where all pay the same amount of tax for the same amount of taxable income. Taxes levied in this way favour majority and are known as progressive taxes.
Those who favour them can also be described as progressive.
Does that explain it to you? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Where's this word 'progressive' come from all of a sudden?
Oh, I am better than you and my politics are better than yours because I am progressive you see.
(Even though I haven't a clue what I'm talking about or what it means)
But in answer to the post obviously not and chances are they'd lose their deposit everywhere they stood so she won't
The main difference between the left and right is how taxes are raised and spent. The right are champion pole and spending based taxes that favour the wealthy. These types of taxes are called regressive taxes because they take no account of income.
The left favour graduated income taxes where all pay the same amount of tax for the same amount of taxable income. Taxes levied in this way favour majority and are known as progressive taxes.
Those who favour them can also be described as progressive.
Does that explain it to you? "
its not used in that context though is it? |
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Actually it is. You are a proud tory supporter who refuses to believe that there could be anything good in socialist policies or anything bad in unrestricted right wing capitalist policies. Of course if you get injured or ill I bet you cant afford private treatment but head for your NHS GP or Leighton Hospital.
Talking about Leighton Hospital, why do you think there is a private hospital in the Leighton's grounds? Who do you think that benefits? I guarantee it's the population of Crewe since the arms dealer who lived in the fortress on Sydney Rd in the 70's got sent to prison for selling guns to unita. Maybe a few living in Nantwhich and more than one or two round the polo grounds in Little Budworth. But I am sure the Cheshire Set are grateful for your support even if they are not so willing to share your company. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Interesting comment today from NicolaSturgeon ... in an interview she said she was tempted to let snp representatives run in elections in England
So if Scots referendum 2 was completely out of the question... if you are south of the border, would you vote for them if you could??"
I floated this after the last general election. It would be strange if it happened, but politics is stranger than it used to be.
If it were to happen, I think it would be more likely to split the left/progressive vote, and make it easier for UKIP or the Tories to get in with our FPTP system. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Interesting comment today from NicolaSturgeon ... in an interview she said she was tempted to let snp representatives run in elections in England
So if Scots referendum 2 was completely out of the question... if you are south of the border, would you vote for them if you could??"
Yes ! As I want English Independance  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Interesting comment today from NicolaSturgeon ... in an interview she said she was tempted to let snp representatives run in elections in England
So if Scots referendum 2 was completely out of the question... if you are south of the border, would you vote for them if you could??
Yes ! As I want English Independance "
Yeah if you want English Independance vote SNP....you can rely on them to mess that up too!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Actually it is. You are a proud tory supporter who refuses to believe that there could be anything good in socialist policies or anything bad in unrestricted right wing capitalist policies. Of course if you get injured or ill I bet you cant afford private treatment but head for your NHS GP or Leighton Hospital.
Talking about Leighton Hospital, why do you think there is a private hospital in the Leighton's grounds? Who do you think that benefits? I guarantee it's the population of Crewe since the arms dealer who lived in the fortress on Sydney Rd in the 70's got sent to prison for selling guns to unita. Maybe a few living in Nantwhich and more than one or two round the polo grounds in Little Budworth. But I am sure the Cheshire Set are grateful for your support even if they are not so willing to share your company."
I don't know how you can assume to know what I believe but I guess that's a progressives thinking for you, you're always right and know whats best eh? By the way, it says Crewe on the profile but we actually live in Stoke, so I really don't know what you're talking about |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
The word "progressive" is being used because being "liberal" is also apparently a terrible thing. Essentially every word that describes trying to be politically "nice" is demonized.
Give us the appropriate word then.
What would the SNPs policy be in the rest of the UK? It's their on going policy of annoying everyone else in the country so much that they genuinely start being mean to Scots and tell them to bigger off. The love bombing they got during the referendum was all very unfortunate from their perspective |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" By the way, it says Crewe on the profile but we actually live in Stoke, so I really don't know what you're talking about
Now why does that not surprise me... "
I dunno. But even as a working class guy from a poor background, what I do know is that socialism doesn't work and always leads to more poverty and unemployment and at your age you should have the wisdom and experience to know that |
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By *isandreTV/TS
over a year ago
Hartlepool |
Socialism doesn't work?
Communism doesn't, at least not in terms of progress, it is hampered by the lack of incentive and therefore general better decision making that the market brings.
However pure Capitalism doesn't work either, because not everything should be measured in money.
So only Capitalism in conjunction with a great deal of Socialism works.
If you are unsure about the value of socialism, just look at the 20th Century for the ordinary person.
In 1900 there were no pensions, no workers rights, if you were out of work it was crime, the poorhouse or death, no welfare state, limited democracy etc.
What, you think it was the fucking Right that benevolently gifted those all to us?
It was socialist and workers movements that won those, to the point where they are enshrined in law. That was despite Left leaning governments only actually being in power for about a quarter of that century.
The value of leftist policies economically has also been shown. Sadly the 30 year lurch to the right since Thatcher and Reagan has eventually resulted in, ironically, the very circumstances many who voted for these fuckers (and their resultant heirs) are now complaining about.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" By the way, it says Crewe on the profile but we actually live in Stoke, so I really don't know what you're talking about
Now why does that not surprise me...
I dunno. But even as a working class guy from a poor background, what I do know is that socialism doesn't work and always leads to more poverty and unemployment and at your age you should have the wisdom and experience to know that "
I have no comment on a socialist government. Never lived through one. Born in the Thatcher and Major days.
The only legacy of a socialist party I did experience were the NHS and the Welfare system. But of course who has credit? Socialists for kicking it off or the conservative and other parties that had to run and scale it. Also the free education.
I thank the party/ideology that brought that into the uk. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Newbury |
"Where's this word 'progressive' come from all of a sudden?
Oh, I am better than you and my politics are better than yours because I am progressive you see.
(Even though I haven't a clue what I'm talking about or what it means)
But in answer to the post obviously not and chances are they'd lose their deposit everywhere they stood so she won't"
It's not that at all. Its actually a tool used to split the left into new "progressive" leftists (aka Blairites) who are more right wing than the "traditional" left (ie Socialists)
So, whilst you are right, there is a tone of "my politics is better than yours" about it, it's not used in the way you describe, ie to differentiate from the right. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Socialism doesn't work?
Communism doesn't, at least not in terms of progress, it is hampered by the lack of incentive and therefore general better decision making that the market brings.
However pure Capitalism doesn't work either, because not everything should be measured in money.
So only Capitalism in conjunction with a great deal of Socialism works.
If you are unsure about the value of socialism, just look at the 20th Century for the ordinary person.
In 1900 there were no pensions, no workers rights, if you were out of work it was crime, the poorhouse or death, no welfare state, limited democracy etc.
What, you think it was the fucking Right that benevolently gifted those all to us?
It was socialist and workers movements that won those, to the point where they are enshrined in law. That was despite Left leaning governments only actually being in power for about a quarter of that century.
The value of leftist policies economically has also been shown. Sadly the 30 year lurch to the right since Thatcher and Reagan has eventually resulted in, ironically, the very circumstances many who voted for these fuckers (and their resultant heirs) are now complaining about.
"
I wouldn't say that pure capitalism works and yes workers gained a lot of rights by standing together but that isn't necessarily socialism. Employers also understood that workers had to be treated better in order for them to remain competitive and society progresses and advances anyway. If socialism works how come left leaning parties were only in power for a quarter of the century? Each time they try they fail and the country is left worse off and with higher unemployment |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Newbury |
"Socialism doesn't work?
Communism doesn't, at least not in terms of progress, it is hampered by the lack of incentive and therefore general better decision making that the market brings.
However pure Capitalism doesn't work either, because not everything should be measured in money.
So only Capitalism in conjunction with a great deal of Socialism works.
If you are unsure about the value of socialism, just look at the 20th Century for the ordinary person.
In 1900 there were no pensions, no workers rights, if you were out of work it was crime, the poorhouse or death, no welfare state, limited democracy etc.
What, you think it was the fucking Right that benevolently gifted those all to us?
It was socialist and workers movements that won those, to the point where they are enshrined in law. That was despite Left leaning governments only actually being in power for about a quarter of that century.
The value of leftist policies economically has also been shown. Sadly the 30 year lurch to the right since Thatcher and Reagan has eventually resulted in, ironically, the very circumstances many who voted for these fuckers (and their resultant heirs) are now complaining about.
I wouldn't say that pure capitalism works and yes workers gained a lot of rights by standing together but that isn't necessarily socialism. Employers also understood that workers had to be treated better in order for them to remain competitive and society progresses and advances anyway. If socialism works how come left leaning parties were only in power for a quarter of the century? Each time they try they fail and the country is left worse off and with higher unemployment"
Ok.... Yesterday the EU was a Stalinist plot and today working class solidarity and the labour movement isn't socialism.... |
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"The word "progressive" is being used because being "liberal" is also apparently a terrible thing. Essentially every word that describes trying to be politically "nice" is demonized.
Give us the appropriate word then.
"
Why couldn't the OP have worded the title "people of the centre and left"?
Why did the 'progressive' bit have to go in there? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Where's this word 'progressive' come from all of a sudden?
Oh, I am better than you and my politics are better than yours because I am progressive you see.
(Even though I haven't a clue what I'm talking about or what it means)
But in answer to the post obviously not and chances are they'd lose their deposit everywhere they stood so she won't
It's not that at all. Its actually a tool used to split the left into new "progressive" leftists (aka Blairites) who are more right wing than the "traditional" left (ie Socialists)
So, whilst you are right, there is a tone of "my politics is better than yours" about it, it's not used in the way you describe, ie to differentiate from the right. "
I didn't describe it to differentiate from the right as such but from all others, so fair point  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Socialism doesn't work?
Communism doesn't, at least not in terms of progress, it is hampered by the lack of incentive and therefore general better decision making that the market brings.
However pure Capitalism doesn't work either, because not everything should be measured in money.
So only Capitalism in conjunction with a great deal of Socialism works.
If you are unsure about the value of socialism, just look at the 20th Century for the ordinary person.
In 1900 there were no pensions, no workers rights, if you were out of work it was crime, the poorhouse or death, no welfare state, limited democracy etc.
What, you think it was the fucking Right that benevolently gifted those all to us?
It was socialist and workers movements that won those, to the point where they are enshrined in law. That was despite Left leaning governments only actually being in power for about a quarter of that century.
The value of leftist policies economically has also been shown. Sadly the 30 year lurch to the right since Thatcher and Reagan has eventually resulted in, ironically, the very circumstances many who voted for these fuckers (and their resultant heirs) are now complaining about.
I wouldn't say that pure capitalism works and yes workers gained a lot of rights by standing together but that isn't necessarily socialism. Employers also understood that workers had to be treated better in order for them to remain competitive and society progresses and advances anyway. If socialism works how come left leaning parties were only in power for a quarter of the century? Each time they try they fail and the country is left worse off and with higher unemployment
Ok.... Yesterday the EU was a Stalinist plot and today working class solidarity and the labour movement isn't socialism...."
No it isn't |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Newbury |
"The word "progressive" is being used because being "liberal" is also apparently a terrible thing. Essentially every word that describes trying to be politically "nice" is demonized.
Give us the appropriate word then.
Why couldn't the OP have worded the title "people of the centre and left"?
Why did the 'progressive' bit have to go in there?"
Because the "progressive" left are on the right of the left, thus the same as, or only marginally to the left of, centrists.
Ie, he isn't asking those who consider themselves to be socialists, the Hard left or people who are further to the left than that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The word "progressive" is being used because being "liberal" is also apparently a terrible thing. Essentially every word that describes trying to be politically "nice" is demonized.
Give us the appropriate word then.
Why couldn't the OP have worded the title "people of the centre and left"?
Why did the 'progressive' bit have to go in there?
Because the "progressive" left are on the right of the left, thus the same as, or only marginally to the left of, centrists.
Ie, he isn't asking those who consider themselves to be socialists, the Hard left or people who are further to the left than that. "
.
What right of the left left or right of the left? personally I'd say there left of the left but not quite as left as the left left... The right say caring about themselves leads to a better society but reality there more interested in money, the centrists are just right wingers who take the cash but aren't willing to look like a righty for fear of a public complex, the right right are mean fuckers who just want a fight over anything.
The left left left are worse than the right because they hold genuine beliefs that there right well not right right but right!.
.
.
.
Me I vote green
 |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Newbury |
"The word "progressive" is being used because being "liberal" is also apparently a terrible thing. Essentially every word that describes trying to be politically "nice" is demonized.
Give us the appropriate word then.
Why couldn't the OP have worded the title "people of the centre and left"?
Why did the 'progressive' bit have to go in there?
Because the "progressive" left are on the right of the left, thus the same as, or only marginally to the left of, centrists.
Ie, he isn't asking those who consider themselves to be socialists, the Hard left or people who are further to the left than that. .
What right of the left left or right of the left? personally I'd say there left of the left but not quite as left as the left left... The right say caring about themselves leads to a better society but reality there more interested in money, the centrists are just right wingers who take the cash but aren't willing to look like a righty for fear of a public complex, the right right are mean fuckers who just want a fight over anything.
The left left left are worse than the right because they hold genuine beliefs that there right well not right right but right!.
.
.
.
Me I vote green
"
Centrists and the "progressive" left are much the same thing. That make it simpler? 
It's like the difference between Nick Clegg (WHO? ) and Tony Blair. |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"Socialism doesn't work?
Communism doesn't, at least not in terms of progress, it is hampered by the lack of incentive and therefore general better decision making that the market brings.
However pure Capitalism doesn't work either, because not everything should be measured in money.
So only Capitalism in conjunction with a great deal of Socialism works.
If you are unsure about the value of socialism, just look at the 20th Century for the ordinary person.
In 1900 there were no pensions, no workers rights, if you were out of work it was crime, the poorhouse or death, no welfare state, limited democracy etc.
What, you think it was the fucking Right that benevolently gifted those all to us?
It was socialist and workers movements that won those, to the point where they are enshrined in law. That was despite Left leaning governments only actually being in power for about a quarter of that century.
The value of leftist policies economically has also been shown. Sadly the 30 year lurch to the right since Thatcher and Reagan has eventually resulted in, ironically, the very circumstances many who voted for these fuckers (and their resultant heirs) are now complaining about.
"
Would that be the workers rights so they spent half their time on strike because the boss wanted them to put the nut on the bolt instead of just holding the bolt? I fully support workers having decent pay and conditions but the unions held the whole country to ransom for years and helped destroy most of british industry, the lazy bosses didnt help, |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Newbury |
"You know what they say about greens... We're like watermelons Green on the outside red in the middle  "
Which is interesting (although not relevant to the subject matter of this thread), because whilst the green movement has undeniable links with the left now, its origins lie partly in the far right. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"You know what they say about greens... We're like watermelons Green on the outside red in the middle
Which is interesting (although not relevant to the subject matter of this thread), because whilst the green movement has undeniable links with the left now, its origins lie partly in the far right. "
.
Oh yeah, Adolf was a firm environmentalist! No punch line I'm afraid.... He just was  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Interesting comment today from NicolaSturgeon ... in an interview she said she was tempted to let snp representatives run in elections in England
So if Scots referendum 2 was completely out of the question... if you are south of the border, would you vote for them if you could??"
She was easily the best candidate in the last election, so yes.
Free education, free medicine. I'd vote for those. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Interesting comment today from NicolaSturgeon ... in an interview she said she was tempted to let snp representatives run in elections in England
So if Scots referendum 2 was completely out of the question... if you are south of the border, would you vote for them if you could??
She was easily the best candidate in the last election, so yes.
Free education, free medicine. I'd vote for those."
who wouldn't and who's going to pay for it1? The hard working English. The stupid bint |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Newbury |
"Interesting comment today from NicolaSturgeon ... in an interview she said she was tempted to let snp representatives run in elections in England
So if Scots referendum 2 was completely out of the question... if you are south of the border, would you vote for them if you could??
She was easily the best candidate in the last election, so yes.
Free education, free medicine. I'd vote for those.
who wouldn't and who's going to pay for it1? The hard working English. The stupid bint"
Surely Scotland could. You know, with all of it's oil. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Interesting comment today from NicolaSturgeon ... in an interview she said she was tempted to let snp representatives run in elections in England
So if Scots referendum 2 was completely out of the question... if you are south of the border, would you vote for them if you could??
She was easily the best candidate in the last election, so yes.
Free education, free medicine. I'd vote for those.
who wouldn't and who's going to pay for it1? The hard working English. The stupid bint
Surely Scotland could. You know, with all of it's oil. "
ye ok  |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Newbury |
"Interesting comment today from NicolaSturgeon ... in an interview she said she was tempted to let snp representatives run in elections in England
So if Scots referendum 2 was completely out of the question... if you are south of the border, would you vote for them if you could??
She was easily the best candidate in the last election, so yes.
Free education, free medicine. I'd vote for those.
who wouldn't and who's going to pay for it1? The hard working English. The stupid bint
Surely Scotland could. You know, with all of it's oil.
ye ok "
If Sotland didn't have vast natural reserves, none of the English politicians would have given a shit about the referendum. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Investing in free education would be a far more profitable investment than HS2 or pretty much any infrastructure.
We're fast getting to the point when technology will make all but the most skilled redundant. At that point capitalism as we know it is fucked. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Interesting comment today from NicolaSturgeon ... in an interview she said she was tempted to let snp representatives run in elections in England
So if Scots referendum 2 was completely out of the question... if you are south of the border, would you vote for them if you could??
She was easily the best candidate in the last election, so yes.
Free education, free medicine. I'd vote for those.
who wouldn't and who's going to pay for it1? The hard working English. The stupid bint
Surely Scotland could. You know, with all of it's oil.
ye ok
If Sotland didn't have vast natural reserves, none of the English politicians would have given a shit about the referendum. "
what natural reserves? Haggis? |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Interesting comment today from NicolaSturgeon ... in an interview she said she was tempted to let snp representatives run in elections in England
So if Scots referendum 2 was completely out of the question... if you are south of the border, would you vote for them if you could??
She was easily the best candidate in the last election, so yes.
Free education, free medicine. I'd vote for those.
who wouldn't and who's going to pay for it1? The hard working English. The stupid bint
Surely Scotland could. You know, with all of it's oil.
ye ok
If Sotland didn't have vast natural reserves, none of the English politicians would have given a shit about the referendum.
what natural reserves? Haggis?"
Where else you are doing to find freshly picked Haggis? |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Investing in free education would be a far more profitable investment than HS2 or pretty much any infrastructure.
We're fast getting to the point when technology will make all but the most skilled redundant. At that point capitalism as we know it is fucked."
Education is free, investing in infrastructure is a great way to build the economy (Keynesian economics) however, whether or not HS2 is the best infrastructure project is another matter. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Investing in free education would be a far more profitable investment than HS2 or pretty much any infrastructure.
We're fast getting to the point when technology will make all but the most skilled redundant. At that point capitalism as we know it is fucked.
Education is free, investing in infrastructure is a great way to build the economy (Keynesian economics) however, whether or not HS2 is the best infrastructure project is another matter."
My point was that once two thirds of the population are unemployed, old economic models will be of no use. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Newbury |
"Interesting comment today from NicolaSturgeon ... in an interview she said she was tempted to let snp representatives run in elections in England
So if Scots referendum 2 was completely out of the question... if you are south of the border, would you vote for them if you could??
She was easily the best candidate in the last election, so yes.
Free education, free medicine. I'd vote for those.
who wouldn't and who's going to pay for it1? The hard working English. The stupid bint
Surely Scotland could. You know, with all of it's oil.
ye ok
If Sotland didn't have vast natural reserves, none of the English politicians would have given a shit about the referendum.
what natural reserves? Haggis?"
You know all that oil in the North Sea, right?...... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Interesting comment today from NicolaSturgeon ... in an interview she said she was tempted to let snp representatives run in elections in England
So if Scots referendum 2 was completely out of the question... if you are south of the border, would you vote for them if you could??
She was easily the best candidate in the last election, so yes.
Free education, free medicine. I'd vote for those.
who wouldn't and who's going to pay for it1? The hard working English. The stupid bint
Surely Scotland could. You know, with all of it's oil.
ye ok
If Sotland didn't have vast natural reserves, none of the English politicians would have given a shit about the referendum.
what natural reserves? Haggis?
Where else you are doing to find freshly picked Haggis? "
don't know what you mean but lets face it, Scotland is the part of England that we didn't want |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Interesting comment today from NicolaSturgeon ... in an interview she said she was tempted to let snp representatives run in elections in England
So if Scots referendum 2 was completely out of the question... if you are south of the border, would you vote for them if you could??
She was easily the best candidate in the last election, so yes.
Free education, free medicine. I'd vote for those.
who wouldn't and who's going to pay for it1? The hard working English. The stupid bint
Surely Scotland could. You know, with all of it's oil.
ye ok
If Sotland didn't have vast natural reserves, none of the English politicians would have given a shit about the referendum.
what natural reserves? Haggis?
Where else you are doing to find freshly picked Haggis?
don't know what you mean but lets face it, Scotland is the part of England that we didn't want"
I thought the Romans just got bored of marching and said "fuck this, I'm building a wall and then I'm heading home" |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Interesting comment today from NicolaSturgeon ... in an interview she said she was tempted to let snp representatives run in elections in England
So if Scots referendum 2 was completely out of the question... if you are south of the border, would you vote for them if you could??"
No no no |
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