FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > petition for NHS staff protection
petition for NHS staff protection
Jump to: Newest in thread
Morning Fabbers
Just watched Nick Farrari on This morning,he has launched a petition to get paramedics and NHS staff the same protection from assault etc as they have in Scotland.
Link can be found herehttps://petition.parliament.uk/signatures/30032314/signed?token=R5Yke10smrJV2TrDYVT
I signed and thought some of you might want to too.
Miss |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
 |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Tbh this seems a pointless bit of beurocaracy.
Do you really think somone who assaults a nurse or paramedic is;
A) going to be aware its a specific offence rather than just assult
B) of sound mind to understand the distinction
C)actually give a fuck and decide not to do it because of it?
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Tbh this seems a pointless bit of beurocaracy.
Do you really think somone who assaults a nurse or paramedic is;
A) going to be aware its a specific offence rather than just assult
B) of sound mind to understand the distinction
C)actually give a fuck and decide not to do it because of it?
"
Maybe not but they can be made accountable for it ,which doesnt happen at the min. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Tbh this seems a pointless bit of beurocaracy.
Do you really think somone who assaults a nurse or paramedic is;
A) going to be aware its a specific offence rather than just assult
B) of sound mind to understand the distinction
C)actually give a fuck and decide not to do it because of it?
Maybe not but they can be made accountable for it ,which doesnt happen at the min."
Of course it does or are you under the impression its legal to assault nhs staff.
After all the maximum for assulting a police officer is 26 weeks in prison vs 13 weeks for non police.
Where as assault and actuall bodily harm is a max of 3 years.
So anything that actually resulted in injury would already be above the max sentence for the lesser crime of assulting police/nurse |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Done and signed.
My husbands sister works for NHS, and I would like to think if she got hurt, someone would be held accountable.
I do agree with person about making sure person is of sound mind. I don't think someone with a history of mental health, who maybe having an episode and is unaware of what they are doing should be punished to the full extent. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
It's wrong that we should actually need a petition in the first place, assault is assault no matter what the profession of the person and even worse when it's directed at people actually trying to help  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Done and signed.
My husbands sister works for NHS, and I would like to think if she got hurt, someone would be held accountable.
"
But they would be held accountable anyway, under current assault/abh/gbh etc laws |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I don't think that assaulting a member of a particular profession should carry a heavier sentence than assaulting anyone else."
But many police officers are assaulted simply because they are in uniform. So I think it is justified to have a higher sentence for this crime. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I don't think that assaulting a member of a particular profession should carry a heavier sentence than assaulting anyone else.
But many police officers are assaulted simply because they are in uniform. So I think it is justified to have a higher sentence for this crime. "
Totally agree. With a dad who is an ex policeman and a mum who is an ex a and e nurse and suffered abuse verbal and physical, why should people get away with it? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I don't think that assaulting a member of a particular profession should carry a heavier sentence than assaulting anyone else.
But many police officers are assaulted simply because they are in uniform. So I think it is justified to have a higher sentence for this crime.
Totally agree. With a dad who is an ex policeman and a mum who is an ex a and e nurse and suffered abuse verbal and physical, why should people get away with it? "
Mum is an A&E receptionist - she gets as much verbal abuse as the nurses and doctors, If not more, because she is the one who has to tell them to sit down and wait another few hours.
Nobody remembers the receptionists... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Tbh this seems a pointless bit of beurocaracy.
Do you really think somone who assaults a nurse or paramedic is;
A) going to be aware its a specific offence rather than just assult
B) of sound mind to understand the distinction
C)actually give a fuck and decide not to do it because of it?
Maybe not but they can be made accountable for it ,which doesnt happen at the min.
Of course it does or are you under the impression its legal to assault nhs staff.
After all the maximum for assulting a police officer is 26 weeks in prison vs 13 weeks for non police.
Where as assault and actuall bodily harm is a max of 3 years.
So anything that actually resulted in injury would already be above the max sentence for the lesser crime of assulting police/nurse"
Nobody its saying its legal to assault nhs staff,i work in healthcare though and know people who have been attacked etc.This petition would give NHS staff the same protection police officers have .
You dont have to agree,but nothing ever changes if people sit back and not try. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I don't think that assaulting a member of a particular profession should carry a heavier sentence than assaulting anyone else.
But many police officers are assaulted simply because they are in uniform. So I think it is justified to have a higher sentence for this crime.
Totally agree. With a dad who is an ex policeman and a mum who is an ex a and e nurse and suffered abuse verbal and physical, why should people get away with it? "
Out of curiosity since you think people get away with it shouldnt that apply to everyone?
If the current sentencing for assult is "getting away with it" if the victim is a nurse why is it not getting away with it if the victim is a traffic warden or school teacher or a stay at home mum?
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *osieWoman
over a year ago
Wembley |
An assault on the guy who collects my refuse is as bad as an assault on a nurse. NHS staff are no special than the garbage man. And there is no need to sign petitions for each and every type of worker when an assault is already a criminal offence |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Tbh this seems a pointless bit of beurocaracy.
Do you really think somone who assaults a nurse or paramedic is;
A) going to be aware its a specific offence rather than just assult
B) of sound mind to understand the distinction
C)actually give a fuck and decide not to do it because of it?
Maybe not but they can be made accountable for it ,which doesnt happen at the min.
Of course it does or are you under the impression its legal to assault nhs staff.
After all the maximum for assulting a police officer is 26 weeks in prison vs 13 weeks for non police.
Where as assault and actuall bodily harm is a max of 3 years.
So anything that actually resulted in injury would already be above the max sentence for the lesser crime of assulting police/nurse
Nobody its saying its legal to assault nhs staff,i work in healthcare though and know people who have been attacked etc.This petition would give NHS staff the same protection police officers have .
You dont have to agree,but nothing ever changes if people sit back and not try."
Right but you realise that "protection" is only upping the top end of sentencing from 13 to 26 wreks right? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Tbh this seems a pointless bit of beurocaracy.
Do you really think somone who assaults a nurse or paramedic is;
A) going to be aware its a specific offence rather than just assult
B) of sound mind to understand the distinction
C)actually give a fuck and decide not to do it because of it?
Maybe not but they can be made accountable for it ,which doesnt happen at the min.
Of course it does or are you under the impression its legal to assault nhs staff.
After all the maximum for assulting a police officer is 26 weeks in prison vs 13 weeks for non police.
Where as assault and actuall bodily harm is a max of 3 years.
So anything that actually resulted in injury would already be above the max sentence for the lesser crime of assulting police/nurse
Nobody its saying its legal to assault nhs staff,i work in healthcare though and know people who have been attacked etc.This petition would give NHS staff the same protection police officers have .
You dont have to agree,but nothing ever changes if people sit back and not try."
It's a different situation.
People attack police officers just for being police officers for reasons relating to the job. Usually they're a criminal or they are rallying agianst the establishment.
People don't attack NHS workers for those reasons. People attack NHS workers because they are scared, sad, lonely, confused, upset, fearful. Not as an act of premeditated violence, but as an emotional lash.
Nobody hangs around on street corners waiting to beat up a nurse. But people do that to police. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Tbh this seems a pointless bit of beurocaracy.
Do you really think somone who assaults a nurse or paramedic is;
A) going to be aware its a specific offence rather than just assult
B) of sound mind to understand the distinction
C)actually give a fuck and decide not to do it because of it?
Maybe not but they can be made accountable for it ,which doesnt happen at the min.
Of course it does or are you under the impression its legal to assault nhs staff.
After all the maximum for assulting a police officer is 26 weeks in prison vs 13 weeks for non police.
Where as assault and actuall bodily harm is a max of 3 years.
So anything that actually resulted in injury would already be above the max sentence for the lesser crime of assulting police/nurse
Nobody its saying its legal to assault nhs staff,i work in healthcare though and know people who have been attacked etc.This petition would give NHS staff the same protection police officers have .
You dont have to agree,but nothing ever changes if people sit back and not try.
Right but you realise that "protection" is only upping the top end of sentencing from 13 to 26 wreks right?"
Its still better than current law ! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Tbh this seems a pointless bit of beurocaracy.
Do you really think somone who assaults a nurse or paramedic is;
A) going to be aware its a specific offence rather than just assult
B) of sound mind to understand the distinction
C)actually give a fuck and decide not to do it because of it?
Maybe not but they can be made accountable for it ,which doesnt happen at the min.
Of course it does or are you under the impression its legal to assault nhs staff.
After all the maximum for assulting a police officer is 26 weeks in prison vs 13 weeks for non police.
Where as assault and actuall bodily harm is a max of 3 years.
So anything that actually resulted in injury would already be above the max sentence for the lesser crime of assulting police/nurse
Nobody its saying its legal to assault nhs staff,i work in healthcare though and know people who have been attacked etc.This petition would give NHS staff the same protection police officers have .
You dont have to agree,but nothing ever changes if people sit back and not try.
Right but you realise that "protection" is only upping the top end of sentencing from 13 to 26 wreks right?
Its still better than current law !"
The current law alows for 3 year sentences. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Tbh this seems a pointless bit of beurocaracy.
Do you really think somone who assaults a nurse or paramedic is;
A) going to be aware its a specific offence rather than just assult
B) of sound mind to understand the distinction
C)actually give a fuck and decide not to do it because of it?
Maybe not but they can be made accountable for it ,which doesnt happen at the min.
Of course it does or are you under the impression its legal to assault nhs staff.
After all the maximum for assulting a police officer is 26 weeks in prison vs 13 weeks for non police.
Where as assault and actuall bodily harm is a max of 3 years.
So anything that actually resulted in injury would already be above the max sentence for the lesser crime of assulting police/nurse
Nobody its saying its legal to assault nhs staff,i work in healthcare though and know people who have been attacked etc.This petition would give NHS staff the same protection police officers have .
You dont have to agree,but nothing ever changes if people sit back and not try.
It's a different situation.
People attack police officers just for being police officers for reasons relating to the job. Usually they're a criminal or they are rallying agianst the establishment.
People don't attack NHS workers for those reasons. People attack NHS workers because they are scared, sad, lonely, confused, upset, fearful. Not as an act of premeditated violence, but as an emotional lash.
Nobody hangs around on street corners waiting to beat up a nurse. But people do that to police."
Not always,yes in some cases but being d*unk and attacking a paramedic for example is not an excuse . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Tbh this seems a pointless bit of beurocaracy.
Do you really think somone who assaults a nurse or paramedic is;
A) going to be aware its a specific offence rather than just assult
B) of sound mind to understand the distinction
C)actually give a fuck and decide not to do it because of it?
Maybe not but they can be made accountable for it ,which doesnt happen at the min.
Of course it does or are you under the impression its legal to assault nhs staff.
After all the maximum for assulting a police officer is 26 weeks in prison vs 13 weeks for non police.
Where as assault and actuall bodily harm is a max of 3 years.
So anything that actually resulted in injury would already be above the max sentence for the lesser crime of assulting police/nurse
Nobody its saying its legal to assault nhs staff,i work in healthcare though and know people who have been attacked etc.This petition would give NHS staff the same protection police officers have .
You dont have to agree,but nothing ever changes if people sit back and not try.
It's a different situation.
People attack police officers just for being police officers for reasons relating to the job. Usually they're a criminal or they are rallying agianst the establishment.
People don't attack NHS workers for those reasons. People attack NHS workers because they are scared, sad, lonely, confused, upset, fearful. Not as an act of premeditated violence, but as an emotional lash.
Nobody hangs around on street corners waiting to beat up a nurse. But people do that to police.
Not always,yes in some cases but being d*unk and attacking a paramedic for example is not an excuse ."
It's not an excuse. But it's no different to being d*unk and attacking the person who works behind the bar. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Tbh this seems a pointless bit of beurocaracy.
Do you really think somone who assaults a nurse or paramedic is;
A) going to be aware its a specific offence rather than just assult
B) of sound mind to understand the distinction
C)actually give a fuck and decide not to do it because of it?
Maybe not but they can be made accountable for it ,which doesnt happen at the min.
Of course it does or are you under the impression its legal to assault nhs staff.
After all the maximum for assulting a police officer is 26 weeks in prison vs 13 weeks for non police.
Where as assault and actuall bodily harm is a max of 3 years.
So anything that actually resulted in injury would already be above the max sentence for the lesser crime of assulting police/nurse
Nobody its saying its legal to assault nhs staff,i work in healthcare though and know people who have been attacked etc.This petition would give NHS staff the same protection police officers have .
You dont have to agree,but nothing ever changes if people sit back and not try.
It's a different situation.
People attack police officers just for being police officers for reasons relating to the job. Usually they're a criminal or they are rallying agianst the establishment.
People don't attack NHS workers for those reasons. People attack NHS workers because they are scared, sad, lonely, confused, upset, fearful. Not as an act of premeditated violence, but as an emotional lash.
Nobody hangs around on street corners waiting to beat up a nurse. But people do that to police.
Not always,yes in some cases but being d*unk and attacking a paramedic for example is not an excuse .
It's not an excuse. But it's no different to being d*unk and attacking the person who works behind the bar."
It is to me,the barstaff are serving said drinks,im not advocating violence to them in any way.However paramedics come to try and help people who are hurt etc and do a very tough job already. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Tbh this seems a pointless bit of beurocaracy.
Do you really think somone who assaults a nurse or paramedic is;
A) going to be aware its a specific offence rather than just assult
B) of sound mind to understand the distinction
C)actually give a fuck and decide not to do it because of it?
Maybe not but they can be made accountable for it ,which doesnt happen at the min.
Of course it does or are you under the impression its legal to assault nhs staff.
After all the maximum for assulting a police officer is 26 weeks in prison vs 13 weeks for non police.
Where as assault and actuall bodily harm is a max of 3 years.
So anything that actually resulted in injury would already be above the max sentence for the lesser crime of assulting police/nurse
Nobody its saying its legal to assault nhs staff,i work in healthcare though and know people who have been attacked etc.This petition would give NHS staff the same protection police officers have .
You dont have to agree,but nothing ever changes if people sit back and not try.
It's a different situation.
People attack police officers just for being police officers for reasons relating to the job. Usually they're a criminal or they are rallying agianst the establishment.
People don't attack NHS workers for those reasons. People attack NHS workers because they are scared, sad, lonely, confused, upset, fearful. Not as an act of premeditated violence, but as an emotional lash.
Nobody hangs around on street corners waiting to beat up a nurse. But people do that to police.
Not always,yes in some cases but being d*unk and attacking a paramedic for example is not an excuse .
It's not an excuse. But it's no different to being d*unk and attacking the person who works behind the bar."
It clearly is differnt.
You injure a bar tender so they have to go home/to hospital. Out come is bar is a bit short staffed people get drinks slower
You injure a paramedic so he has to go to the hospital that ambulance is out of action for some time people could die in that time if theres not sufficient resources to cover it.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
You injure a paramedic so he has to go to the hospital that ambulance is out of action for some time people could die in that time if theres not sufficient resources to cover it.
"
So surely a better solution would be to perhaps fine people who attack paramedics, and use the money to directly fund more ambulances. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
You injure a paramedic so he has to go to the hospital that ambulance is out of action for some time people could die in that time if theres not sufficient resources to cover it.
So surely a better solution would be to perhaps fine people who attack paramedics, and use the money to directly fund more ambulances."
That sounds an awful solution in every way.
The cost of accounting for one.
Also it still doesnt change the outcome of that night.
People should stop calling it "protection" though as this does nothing to stop attscks.
Do you think the average person will know that gut punching the nurse csrries a potentially higher sentence than gut punching the porter?
Either way youre unlikley to get anything more than a fine and community order regardless of what the max sentence is |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Just to give an idea of figures
Latest figures reveal that the total number of assaults in the year to the 31st March 2016 was 70,555 whereas in 2011/12 it was 59,744. Dil Patel is just one of those who's suffered an attack while trying to help:
Of the 2015/16 assaults 17,851 did not involve factors such as medical illness, mental ill health, severe learning disability or treatment administered. However only 1,740 of these assaults resulted in criminal sanctions. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *osieWoman
over a year ago
Wembley |
"Tbh this seems a pointless bit of beurocaracy.
Do you really think somone who assaults a nurse or paramedic is;
A) going to be aware its a specific offence rather than just assult
B) of sound mind to understand the distinction
C)actually give a fuck and decide not to do it because of it?
Maybe not but they can be made accountable for it ,which doesnt happen at the min.
Of course it does or are you under the impression its legal to assault nhs staff.
After all the maximum for assulting a police officer is 26 weeks in prison vs 13 weeks for non police.
Where as assault and actuall bodily harm is a max of 3 years.
So anything that actually resulted in injury would already be above the max sentence for the lesser crime of assulting police/nurse
Nobody its saying its legal to assault nhs staff,i work in healthcare though and know people who have been attacked etc.This petition would give NHS staff the same protection police officers have .
You dont have to agree,but nothing ever changes if people sit back and not try.
It's a different situation.
People attack police officers just for being police officers for reasons relating to the job. Usually they're a criminal or they are rallying agianst the establishment.
People don't attack NHS workers for those reasons. People attack NHS workers because they are scared, sad, lonely, confused, upset, fearful. Not as an act of premeditated violence, but as an emotional lash.
Nobody hangs around on street corners waiting to beat up a nurse. But people do that to police.
Not always,yes in some cases but being d*unk and attacking a paramedic for example is not an excuse .
It's not an excuse. But it's no different to being d*unk and attacking the person who works behind the bar.
It is to me,the barstaff are serving said drinks,im not advocating violence to them in any way.However paramedics come to try and help people who are hurt etc and do a very tough job already."
My garbage man does a tougher job; just ask him and he will say so himself
NHS workers work and get paid. They should not be assaulted and nor should a barman. If NHS staff think they are somehow doing a more dangerous job, then they can easily switch over to collecting garbage or serving drinks |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *osieWoman
over a year ago
Wembley |
"Tbh this seems a pointless bit of beurocaracy.
Do you really think somone who assaults a nurse or paramedic is;
A) going to be aware its a specific offence rather than just assult
B) of sound mind to understand the distinction
C)actually give a fuck and decide not to do it because of it?
Maybe not but they can be made accountable for it ,which doesnt happen at the min.
Of course it does or are you under the impression its legal to assault nhs staff.
After all the maximum for assulting a police officer is 26 weeks in prison vs 13 weeks for non police.
Where as assault and actuall bodily harm is a max of 3 years.
So anything that actually resulted in injury would already be above the max sentence for the lesser crime of assulting police/nurse
Nobody its saying its legal to assault nhs staff,i work in healthcare though and know people who have been attacked etc.This petition would give NHS staff the same protection police officers have .
You dont have to agree,but nothing ever changes if people sit back and not try.
It's a different situation.
People attack police officers just for being police officers for reasons relating to the job. Usually they're a criminal or they are rallying agianst the establishment.
People don't attack NHS workers for those reasons. People attack NHS workers because they are scared, sad, lonely, confused, upset, fearful. Not as an act of premeditated violence, but as an emotional lash.
Nobody hangs around on street corners waiting to beat up a nurse. But people do that to police.
Not always,yes in some cases but being d*unk and attacking a paramedic for example is not an excuse .
It's not an excuse. But it's no different to being d*unk and attacking the person who works behind the bar.
It clearly is differnt.
You injure a bar tender so they have to go home/to hospital. Out come is bar is a bit short staffed people get drinks slower
You injure a paramedic so he has to go to the hospital that ambulance is out of action for some time people could die in that time if theres not sufficient resources to cover it.
"
You injure a hospital porter and your trolley doesn't get moved to A&E and you die. You injure a pharmaceutical scientist and the wonder cancer drug he was about to invent doesn't get invented and millions of people die
Sorry, but this all sounds like utter nonsence to me |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Tbh this seems a pointless bit of beurocaracy.
Do you really think somone who assaults a nurse or paramedic is;
A) going to be aware its a specific offence rather than just assult
B) of sound mind to understand the distinction
C)actually give a fuck and decide not to do it because of it?
Maybe not but they can be made accountable for it ,which doesnt happen at the min.
Of course it does or are you under the impression its legal to assault nhs staff.
After all the maximum for assulting a police officer is 26 weeks in prison vs 13 weeks for non police.
Where as assault and actuall bodily harm is a max of 3 years.
So anything that actually resulted in injury would already be above the max sentence for the lesser crime of assulting police/nurse
Nobody its saying its legal to assault nhs staff,i work in healthcare though and know people who have been attacked etc.This petition would give NHS staff the same protection police officers have .
You dont have to agree,but nothing ever changes if people sit back and not try.
It's a different situation.
People attack police officers just for being police officers for reasons relating to the job. Usually they're a criminal or they are rallying agianst the establishment.
People don't attack NHS workers for those reasons. People attack NHS workers because they are scared, sad, lonely, confused, upset, fearful. Not as an act of premeditated violence, but as an emotional lash.
Nobody hangs around on street corners waiting to beat up a nurse. But people do that to police.
Not always,yes in some cases but being d*unk and attacking a paramedic for example is not an excuse .
It's not an excuse. But it's no different to being d*unk and attacking the person who works behind the bar.
It is to me,the barstaff are serving said drinks,im not advocating violence to them in any way.However paramedics come to try and help people who are hurt etc and do a very tough job already.
My garbage man does a tougher job; just ask him and he will say so himself
NHS workers work and get paid. They should not be assaulted and nor should a barman. If NHS staff think they are somehow doing a more dangerous job, then they can easily switch over to collecting garbage or serving drinks"
Your opinion,I doubt his job is tougher than a paramedics on a busy shift saving lives or A&E staffs .Plus binmen are not constantly all over the news and slated for waiting times etc.
We will have to agree to disagree on this matter,nobody is saying NHS staff arent paid etc,but i would urge people to go try a few shifts and see what staff deal with. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Tbh this seems a pointless bit of beurocaracy.
Do you really think somone who assaults a nurse or paramedic is;
A) going to be aware its a specific offence rather than just assult
B) of sound mind to understand the distinction
C)actually give a fuck and decide not to do it because of it?
Maybe not but they can be made accountable for it ,which doesnt happen at the min.
Of course it does or are you under the impression its legal to assault nhs staff.
After all the maximum for assulting a police officer is 26 weeks in prison vs 13 weeks for non police.
Where as assault and actuall bodily harm is a max of 3 years.
So anything that actually resulted in injury would already be above the max sentence for the lesser crime of assulting police/nurse
Nobody its saying its legal to assault nhs staff,i work in healthcare though and know people who have been attacked etc.This petition would give NHS staff the same protection police officers have .
You dont have to agree,but nothing ever changes if people sit back and not try.
It's a different situation.
People attack police officers just for being police officers for reasons relating to the job. Usually they're a criminal or they are rallying agianst the establishment.
People don't attack NHS workers for those reasons. People attack NHS workers because they are scared, sad, lonely, confused, upset, fearful. Not as an act of premeditated violence, but as an emotional lash.
Nobody hangs around on street corners waiting to beat up a nurse. But people do that to police.
Not always,yes in some cases but being d*unk and attacking a paramedic for example is not an excuse .
It's not an excuse. But it's no different to being d*unk and attacking the person who works behind the bar.
It is to me,the barstaff are serving said drinks,im not advocating violence to them in any way.However paramedics come to try and help people who are hurt etc and do a very tough job already.
My garbage man does a tougher job; just ask him and he will say so himself
NHS workers work and get paid. They should not be assaulted and nor should a barman. If NHS staff think they are somehow doing a more dangerous job, then they can easily switch over to collecting garbage or serving drinks"
I believe they should have protection, I worked in a busy a+e department a few years ago on security!!! And Friday to Sunday is a nightmare for them d*unk or drugged up ppl that and got no respect for the hard work these ppl do, the abuse doctors and nurses get is crazy and I should imagine it's the same for paramedics too, I'm for it |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"An assault on the guy who collects my refuse is as bad as an assault on a nurse. NHS staff are no special than the garbage man. And there is no need to sign petitions for each and every type of worker when an assault is already a criminal offence"
How often are refuse collectors assaulted whilst carrying out their duties ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Tbh this seems a pointless bit of beurocaracy.
Do you really think somone who assaults a nurse or paramedic is;
A) going to be aware its a specific offence rather than just assult
B) of sound mind to understand the distinction
C)actually give a fuck and decide not to do it because of it?
Maybe not but they can be made accountable for it ,which doesnt happen at the min.
Of course it does or are you under the impression its legal to assault nhs staff.
After all the maximum for assulting a police officer is 26 weeks in prison vs 13 weeks for non police.
Where as assault and actuall bodily harm is a max of 3 years.
So anything that actually resulted in injury would already be above the max sentence for the lesser crime of assulting police/nurse
Nobody its saying its legal to assault nhs staff,i work in healthcare though and know people who have been attacked etc.This petition would give NHS staff the same protection police officers have .
You dont have to agree,but nothing ever changes if people sit back and not try.
It's a different situation.
People attack police officers just for being police officers for reasons relating to the job. Usually they're a criminal or they are rallying agianst the establishment.
People don't attack NHS workers for those reasons. People attack NHS workers because they are scared, sad, lonely, confused, upset, fearful. Not as an act of premeditated violence, but as an emotional lash.
Nobody hangs around on street corners waiting to beat up a nurse. But people do that to police.
Not always,yes in some cases but being d*unk and attacking a paramedic for example is not an excuse .
It's not an excuse. But it's no different to being d*unk and attacking the person who works behind the bar.
It is to me,the barstaff are serving said drinks,im not advocating violence to them in any way.However paramedics come to try and help people who are hurt etc and do a very tough job already.
My garbage man does a tougher job; just ask him and he will say so himself
NHS workers work and get paid. They should not be assaulted and nor should a barman. If NHS staff think they are somehow doing a more dangerous job, then they can easily switch over to collecting garbage or serving drinksI believe they should have protection, I worked in a busy a+e department a few years ago on security!!! And Friday to Sunday is a nightmare for them d*unk or drugged up ppl that and got no respect for the hard work these ppl do, the abuse doctors and nurses get is crazy and I should imagine it's the same for paramedics too, I'm for it "
Right a security gaurd is protection. A slightly longer potential sentence is not protection. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Just to give an idea of figures
Latest figures reveal that the total number of assaults in the year to the 31st March 2016 was 70,555 whereas in 2011/12 it was 59,744. Dil Patel is just one of those who's suffered an attack while trying to help:
Of the 2015/16 assaults 17,851 did not involve factors such as medical illness, mental ill health, severe learning disability or treatment administered. However only 1,740 of these assaults resulted in criminal sanctions."
If the vast majority didn't meet the the requirements for a peosecution under current sentencing rules they wont under new rules |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Tbh this seems a pointless bit of beurocaracy.
Do you really think somone who assaults a nurse or paramedic is;
A) going to be aware its a specific offence rather than just assult
B) of sound mind to understand the distinction
C)actually give a fuck and decide not to do it because of it?
Maybe not but they can be made accountable for it ,which doesnt happen at the min.
Of course it does or are you under the impression its legal to assault nhs staff.
After all the maximum for assulting a police officer is 26 weeks in prison vs 13 weeks for non police.
Where as assault and actuall bodily harm is a max of 3 years.
So anything that actually resulted in injury would already be above the max sentence for the lesser crime of assulting police/nurse
Nobody its saying its legal to assault nhs staff,i work in healthcare though and know people who have been attacked etc.This petition would give NHS staff the same protection police officers have .
You dont have to agree,but nothing ever changes if people sit back and not try.
It's a different situation.
People attack police officers just for being police officers for reasons relating to the job. Usually they're a criminal or they are rallying agianst the establishment.
People don't attack NHS workers for those reasons. People attack NHS workers because they are scared, sad, lonely, confused, upset, fearful. Not as an act of premeditated violence, but as an emotional lash.
Nobody hangs around on street corners waiting to beat up a nurse. But people do that to police.
Not always,yes in some cases but being d*unk and attacking a paramedic for example is not an excuse .
It's not an excuse. But it's no different to being d*unk and attacking the person who works behind the bar.
It is to me,the barstaff are serving said drinks,im not advocating violence to them in any way.However paramedics come to try and help people who are hurt etc and do a very tough job already.
My garbage man does a tougher job; just ask him and he will say so himself
NHS workers work and get paid. They should not be assaulted and nor should a barman. If NHS staff think they are somehow doing a more dangerous job, then they can easily switch over to collecting garbage or serving drinksI believe they should have protection, I worked in a busy a+e department a few years ago on security!!! And Friday to Sunday is a nightmare for them d*unk or drugged up ppl that and got no respect for the hard work these ppl do, the abuse doctors and nurses get is crazy and I should imagine it's the same for paramedics too, I'm for it
Right a security gaurd is protection. A slightly longer potential sentence is not protection. "
can you honestly say a d*unk or a druggie is gonna think about longer harsher sentencing!!! I don't think so mate, I have military background also a lot of ex service men do go into security, so I sure we are quite capable insuring protection |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"An assault on the guy who collects my refuse is as bad as an assault on a nurse. NHS staff are no special than the garbage man. And there is no need to sign petitions for each and every type of worker when an assault is already a criminal offence
How often are refuse collectors assaulted whilst carrying out their duties ?"
once in a blue moon!! How often a nurse or a paramedic?? It happens every weekend!! There dealing with d*unks and druggies, ask yourself do you go to work to be abused attacked !! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Tbh this seems a pointless bit of beurocaracy.
Do you really think somone who assaults a nurse or paramedic is;
A) going to be aware its a specific offence rather than just assult
B) of sound mind to understand the distinction
C)actually give a fuck and decide not to do it because of it?
Maybe not but they can be made accountable for it ,which doesnt happen at the min.
Of course it does or are you under the impression its legal to assault nhs staff.
After all the maximum for assulting a police officer is 26 weeks in prison vs 13 weeks for non police.
Where as assault and actuall bodily harm is a max of 3 years.
So anything that actually resulted in injury would already be above the max sentence for the lesser crime of assulting police/nurse
Nobody its saying its legal to assault nhs staff,i work in healthcare though and know people who have been attacked etc.This petition would give NHS staff the same protection police officers have .
You dont have to agree,but nothing ever changes if people sit back and not try.
It's a different situation.
People attack police officers just for being police officers for reasons relating to the job. Usually they're a criminal or they are rallying agianst the establishment.
People don't attack NHS workers for those reasons. People attack NHS workers because they are scared, sad, lonely, confused, upset, fearful. Not as an act of premeditated violence, but as an emotional lash.
Nobody hangs around on street corners waiting to beat up a nurse. But people do that to police.
Not always,yes in some cases but being d*unk and attacking a paramedic for example is not an excuse .
It's not an excuse. But it's no different to being d*unk and attacking the person who works behind the bar.
It is to me,the barstaff are serving said drinks,im not advocating violence to them in any way.However paramedics come to try and help people who are hurt etc and do a very tough job already.
My garbage man does a tougher job; just ask him and he will say so himself
NHS workers work and get paid. They should not be assaulted and nor should a barman. If NHS staff think they are somehow doing a more dangerous job, then they can easily switch over to collecting garbage or serving drinksI believe they should have protection, I worked in a busy a+e department a few years ago on security!!! And Friday to Sunday is a nightmare for them d*unk or drugged up ppl that and got no respect for the hard work these ppl do, the abuse doctors and nurses get is crazy and I should imagine it's the same for paramedics too, I'm for it
Right a security gaurd is protection. A slightly longer potential sentence is not protection. can you honestly say a d*unk or a druggie is gonna think about longer harsher sentencing!!! I don't think so mate, I have military background also a lot of ex service men do go into security, so I sure we are quite capable insuring protection "
Errr you realise thats exactly what im saying.
People are saying this provides "protection" it does not.
As you pointed out noone is going decide not to assult the nurse because of a slightly longer sentence posibility.
The sexond part of your post doesnt make much sense.
If theyre so capable of providing protection for thier staff why where they're 17,000 assults on then? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Changing the potential sentence is pointless. It won't protect anyone.
To protect staff;
1. Provide more security
2. Prosecute the offenders more often and more successfully.
"
Might be time to trial body cams for paramedics?
On the tests for police they reduced violent outcomes quite significantly.
So work as both a prevention and evidence for prosecution |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *otgirl32Woman
over a year ago
Ashton Under Lyne |
"Tbh this seems a pointless bit of beurocaracy.
Do you really think somone who assaults a nurse or paramedic is;
A) going to be aware its a specific offence rather than just assult
B) of sound mind to understand the distinction
C)actually give a fuck and decide not to do it because of it?
Maybe not but they can be made accountable for it ,which doesnt happen at the min.
Of course it does or are you under the impression its legal to assault nhs staff.
After all the maximum for assulting a police officer is 26 weeks in prison vs 13 weeks for non police.
Where as assault and actuall bodily harm is a max of 3 years.
So anything that actually resulted in injury would already be above the max sentence for the lesser crime of assulting police/nurse
Nobody its saying its legal to assault nhs staff,i work in healthcare though and know people who have been attacked etc.This petition would give NHS staff the same protection police officers have .
You dont have to agree,but nothing ever changes if people sit back and not try.
It's a different situation.
People attack police officers just for being police officers for reasons relating to the job. Usually they're a criminal or they are rallying agianst the establishment.
People don't attack NHS workers for those reasons. People attack NHS workers because they are scared, sad, lonely, confused, upset, fearful. Not as an act of premeditated violence, but as an emotional lash.
Nobody hangs around on street corners waiting to beat up a nurse. But people do that to police.
Not always,yes in some cases but being d*unk and attacking a paramedic for example is not an excuse .
It's not an excuse. But it's no different to being d*unk and attacking the person who works behind the bar.
It clearly is differnt.
You injure a bar tender so they have to go home/to hospital. Out come is bar is a bit short staffed people get drinks slower
You injure a paramedic so he has to go to the hospital that ambulance is out of action for some time people could die in that time if theres not sufficient resources to cover it.
You injure a hospital porter and your trolley doesn't get moved to A&E and you die. You injure a pharmaceutical scientist and the wonder cancer drug he was about to invent doesn't get invented and millions of people die
Sorry, but this all sounds like utter nonsence to me"
Utter nonsense ???
You're missing the point completely. Yes, assaulting anyone is wrong and despicable and that's commonly accepted. Anyone on the street (garbage man included, who's job is just as difficult by the way) can get assaulted as a random act and we have laws to protect people.
The reason why NHS workers particularly doctors, nurses, paramedics are different is because they are right in the line of fire. Line of fire of what, you ask? They're in the line of people's wrath as a result of a bad outcome for a patient. A family member or loved one dying provokes a set of emotions that leads people to somehow "take it out" on someone and that someone is the doctor, nurse, or other health care worker who happens to be there. Why? Because "he/she MUST have screwed up otherwise Mum won't be dying". So while garbage man can face a random act of violence, he is not in anyone's line of fire as a matter of routine. A nurse or other health care worker is. So the laws HAVE to be harsher to prevent someone venting. Will it prevent every assault? No. But it will be a deterrent. Health care workers don't wish to be considered "special" they just don't want to be punched in the face everytime a 95 year old grandma dies and the 6'2 rugby-playing grandson who's not visited grandma for 3 years decides to vent.
PS: I'm a medical secretary and sometimes come across belligerent relatives but that's the most of it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Changing the potential sentence is pointless. It won't protect anyone.
To protect staff;
1. Provide more security
2. Prosecute the offenders more often and more successfully.
Might be time to trial body cams for paramedics?
On the tests for police they reduced violent outcomes quite significantly.
So work as both a prevention and evidence for prosecution"
Would people agree to being filmed by a medic whilst having an examination ?
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Changing the potential sentence is pointless. It won't protect anyone.
To protect staff;
1. Provide more security
2. Prosecute the offenders more often and more successfully.
Might be time to trial body cams for paramedics?
On the tests for police they reduced violent outcomes quite significantly.
So work as both a prevention and evidence for prosecution
Would people agree to being filmed by a medic whilst having an examination ?
"
I wouldn't. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Changing the potential sentence is pointless. It won't protect anyone.
To protect staff;
1. Provide more security
2. Prosecute the offenders more often and more successfully.
Might be time to trial body cams for paramedics?
On the tests for police they reduced violent outcomes quite significantly.
So work as both a prevention and evidence for prosecution
Would people agree to being filmed by a medic whilst having an examination ?
"
Could always turn the camrea off while working with the patient or if the paramedic feels its safe to do so.
But in public i dont think theyd actually have to consent |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Just to give an idea of figures
Latest figures reveal that the total number of assaults in the year to the 31st March 2016 was 70,555 whereas in 2011/12 it was 59,744. Dil Patel is just one of those who's suffered an attack while trying to help:
Of the 2015/16 assaults 17,851 did not involve factors such as medical illness, mental ill health, severe learning disability or treatment administered. However only 1,740 of these assaults resulted in criminal sanctions.
If the vast majority didn't meet the the requirements for a peosecution under current sentencing rules they wont under new rules"
We don't know why they weren't prosecuted,I stand by my post I know people who have been attacked at work .The people behind the attacks were not made an example of,despite witnesses etc.
We will have to agree to disagree on this matter . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *osieWoman
over a year ago
Wembley |
"An assault on the guy who collects my refuse is as bad as an assault on a nurse. NHS staff are no special than the garbage man. And there is no need to sign petitions for each and every type of worker when an assault is already a criminal offence
How often are refuse collectors assaulted whilst carrying out their duties ?"
100% for the one who is; and he (or she) isn't any lessor of a human-being than an NHS worker |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *osieWoman
over a year ago
Wembley |
"Tbh this seems a pointless bit of beurocaracy.
Do you really think somone who assaults a nurse or paramedic is;
A) going to be aware its a specific offence rather than just assult
B) of sound mind to understand the distinction
C)actually give a fuck and decide not to do it because of it?
Maybe not but they can be made accountable for it ,which doesnt happen at the min.
Of course it does or are you under the impression its legal to assault nhs staff.
After all the maximum for assulting a police officer is 26 weeks in prison vs 13 weeks for non police.
Where as assault and actuall bodily harm is a max of 3 years.
So anything that actually resulted in injury would already be above the max sentence for the lesser crime of assulting police/nurse
Nobody its saying its legal to assault nhs staff,i work in healthcare though and know people who have been attacked etc.This petition would give NHS staff the same protection police officers have .
You dont have to agree,but nothing ever changes if people sit back and not try.
It's a different situation.
People attack police officers just for being police officers for reasons relating to the job. Usually they're a criminal or they are rallying agianst the establishment.
People don't attack NHS workers for those reasons. People attack NHS workers because they are scared, sad, lonely, confused, upset, fearful. Not as an act of premeditated violence, but as an emotional lash.
Nobody hangs around on street corners waiting to beat up a nurse. But people do that to police.
Not always,yes in some cases but being d*unk and attacking a paramedic for example is not an excuse .
It's not an excuse. But it's no different to being d*unk and attacking the person who works behind the bar.
It clearly is differnt.
You injure a bar tender so they have to go home/to hospital. Out come is bar is a bit short staffed people get drinks slower
You injure a paramedic so he has to go to the hospital that ambulance is out of action for some time people could die in that time if theres not sufficient resources to cover it.
You injure a hospital porter and your trolley doesn't get moved to A&E and you die. You injure a pharmaceutical scientist and the wonder cancer drug he was about to invent doesn't get invented and millions of people die
Sorry, but this all sounds like utter nonsence to me
Utter nonsense ???
You're missing the point completely. Yes, assaulting anyone is wrong and despicable and that's commonly accepted. Anyone on the street (garbage man included, who's job is just as difficult by the way) can get assaulted as a random act and we have laws to protect people.
The reason why NHS workers particularly doctors, nurses, paramedics are different is because they are right in the line of fire. Line of fire of what, you ask? They're in the line of people's wrath as a result of a bad outcome for a patient. A family member or loved one dying provokes a set of emotions that leads people to somehow "take it out" on someone and that someone is the doctor, nurse, or other health care worker who happens to be there. Why? Because "he/she MUST have screwed up otherwise Mum won't be dying". So while garbage man can face a random act of violence, he is not in anyone's line of fire as a matter of routine. A nurse or other health care worker is. So the laws HAVE to be harsher to prevent someone venting. Will it prevent every assault? No. But it will be a deterrent. Health care workers don't wish to be considered "special" they just don't want to be punched in the face everytime a 95 year old grandma dies and the 6'2 rugby-playing grandson who's not visited grandma for 3 years decides to vent.
PS: I'm a medical secretary and sometimes come across belligerent relatives but that's the most of it. "
No, it won't prevent anything as such. A person who will assault someone will assault that person whether the penalty is 13 weeks in prison or 26 weeks in prison. This is just another nonsensical 'lip-service' suggestion which I do not support |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Tbh this seems a pointless bit of beurocaracy.
Do you really think somone who assaults a nurse or paramedic is;
A) going to be aware its a specific offence rather than just assult
B) of sound mind to understand the distinction
C)actually give a fuck and decide not to do it because of it?
Maybe not but they can be made accountable for it ,which doesnt happen at the min.
Of course it does or are you under the impression its legal to assault nhs staff.
After all the maximum for assulting a police officer is 26 weeks in prison vs 13 weeks for non police.
Where as assault and actuall bodily harm is a max of 3 years.
So anything that actually resulted in injury would already be above the max sentence for the lesser crime of assulting police/nurse
Nobody its saying its legal to assault nhs staff,i work in healthcare though and know people who have been attacked etc.This petition would give NHS staff the same protection police officers have .
You dont have to agree,but nothing ever changes if people sit back and not try.
It's a different situation.
People attack police officers just for being police officers for reasons relating to the job. Usually they're a criminal or they are rallying agianst the establishment.
People don't attack NHS workers for those reasons. People attack NHS workers because they are scared, sad, lonely, confused, upset, fearful. Not as an act of premeditated violence, but as an emotional lash.
Nobody hangs around on street corners waiting to beat up a nurse. But people do that to police.
Not always,yes in some cases but being d*unk and attacking a paramedic for example is not an excuse .
It's not an excuse. But it's no different to being d*unk and attacking the person who works behind the bar.
It clearly is differnt.
You injure a bar tender so they have to go home/to hospital. Out come is bar is a bit short staffed people get drinks slower
You injure a paramedic so he has to go to the hospital that ambulance is out of action for some time people could die in that time if theres not sufficient resources to cover it.
You injure a hospital porter and your trolley doesn't get moved to A&E and you die. You injure a pharmaceutical scientist and the wonder cancer drug he was about to invent doesn't get invented and millions of people die
Sorry, but this all sounds like utter nonsence to me
Utter nonsense ???
You're missing the point completely. Yes, assaulting anyone is wrong and despicable and that's commonly accepted. Anyone on the street (garbage man included, who's job is just as difficult by the way) can get assaulted as a random act and we have laws to protect people.
The reason why NHS workers particularly doctors, nurses, paramedics are different is because they are right in the line of fire. Line of fire of what, you ask? They're in the line of people's wrath as a result of a bad outcome for a patient. A family member or loved one dying provokes a set of emotions that leads people to somehow "take it out" on someone and that someone is the doctor, nurse, or other health care worker who happens to be there. Why? Because "he/she MUST have screwed up otherwise Mum won't be dying". So while garbage man can face a random act of violence, he is not in anyone's line of fire as a matter of routine. A nurse or other health care worker is. So the laws HAVE to be harsher to prevent someone venting. Will it prevent every assault? No. But it will be a deterrent. Health care workers don't wish to be considered "special" they just don't want to be punched in the face everytime a 95 year old grandma dies and the 6'2 rugby-playing grandson who's not visited grandma for 3 years decides to vent.
PS: I'm a medical secretary and sometimes come across belligerent relatives but that's the most of it. "
Common assault = max 6 months
ABH = max 5 years
GBH = max life
Do we need another level for hospital workers? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Morning Fabbers
Just watched Nick Farrari on This morning,he has launched a petition to get paramedics and NHS staff the same protection from assault etc as they have in Scotland.
Link can be found herehttps://petition.parliament.uk/signatures/30032314/signed?token=R5Yke10smrJV2TrDYVT
I signed and thought some of you might want to too.
Miss"
To be honest OP I think the whole idea is ridiculous.
We already have numerous offences ranging from breach of the peace and disorderly conduct through various assault charges right up to murder and where the offences are carried out by more than 3 people then an additional charge of riot can be added. We do not need more offences against the person laws, especially if they place any single group in a 'privileged' position, what we need is for the laws we already have to be enforced properly by the police and offenders to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Just to give an idea of figures
Latest figures reveal that the total number of assaults in the year to the 31st March 2016 was 70,555 whereas in 2011/12 it was 59,744. Dil Patel is just one of those who's suffered an attack while trying to help:
Of the 2015/16 assaults 17,851 did not involve factors such as medical illness, mental ill health, severe learning disability or treatment administered. However only 1,740 of these assaults resulted in criminal sanctions.
If the vast majority didn't meet the the requirements for a peosecution under current sentencing rules they wont under new rules
We don't know why they weren't prosecuted,I stand by my post I know people who have been attacked at work .The people behind the attacks were not made an example of,despite witnesses etc.
We will have to agree to disagree on this matter ."
Well there's only two reasons
The cps did not think it was in the public interest.
The cps did not think it could secure a conviction in court.
So no having the possibility of a longer sentence would not affect the conviction rate.
Also we do not live in a society that condones "making an example" of people. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Also we do not live in a society that condones "making an example" of people."
That's not quite true tho is it?
Would it not be more accurate to say we live in a society that now looks for ways to make examples of victims of crime in order to justify the the crime committed or find excuses to justify criminal behaviour and then use those examples in order to weaken the laws protecting all of us? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Also we do not live in a society that condones "making an example" of people.
That's not quite true tho is it?
Would it not be more accurate to say we live in a society that now looks for ways to make examples of victims of crime in order to justify the the crime committed or find excuses to justify criminal behaviour and then use those examples in order to weaken the laws protecting all of us?"
No.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
