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Supranational Court
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
After we leave the EU, will all judgements on all matters be resolved by UK judges in UK courts? Or will there be a number of supranational courts or arbitration panels etc that we will be subject to?
Those who voted to leave, would you be pissed off if there is any kind of supranational courts or arbitration process? |
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"Matters of UK law need to be solely under the jurisdiction of UK courts.
They already arent. Theres a number of trade and other international courts and arbitration bodies above British courts."
The European Court of Justice won't be one of them after Brexit. We are leaving the EU and the jurisdiction of the EU courts. |
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"Matters of UK law need to be solely under the jurisdiction of UK courts.
They already arent. Theres a number of trade and other international courts and arbitration bodies above British courts.
The European Court of Justice won't be one of them after Brexit. We are leaving the EU and the jurisdiction of the EU courts. "
You'll have a European court of arbitration for the rights of EU citizens. That may be the ECJ or it may come under a different name. But it will be a court with full or 50% EU staffing that will over rule British court decisions if needs be. |
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"Matters of UK law need to be solely under the jurisdiction of UK courts.
They already arent. Theres a number of trade and other international courts and arbitration bodies above British courts.
The European Court of Justice won't be one of them after Brexit. We are leaving the EU and the jurisdiction of the EU courts.
You'll have a European court of arbitration for the rights of EU citizens. That may be the ECJ or it may come under a different name. But it will be a court with full or 50% EU staffing that will over rule British court decisions if needs be."
That's pure fantasyland on your part. British courts will be the final arbiter on legal affairs inside of the UK after Brexit and you can keep the ECJ as final arbiter over ruling your courts in Rep of Ireland and the rest of the EU. You don't seem to get it, the UK is leaving the EU, once we leave we will be outside of the EU, does the EU courts have jurisdiction over American courts for its citizens in America = No it doesn't, same for China, Australia, India, Japan, New Zealand, Russia and every other country in the world that is not in the EU. The UK is leaving the EU and joining the rest of the world outside, the jurisdiction of European courts will come to an end in the UK once we leave and we will be like the rest of the countries outside of the EU. If the EU said to USA or China or Russia, "our courts are going to start over ruling your domestic courts for the rights of our citizens" then you know they would tell the EU to Fuck off! The UK may be using more diplomatic language as part of the negotiations but break it down and the UK will basically tell the EU the same thing in less colorful language and rightly so. The EU is not a world governing body but the way you talk you certainly seem to think it is. You have the same mindset as the likes of Juncker and Tusk, you think the EU is bigger than it actually is and you've gotten far too big for your boots. In reality the EU is a small part of the world and it's about to get smaller and less influential once the UK leaves. The European Court of justice jurisdiction ends at the edge of the EU borders and once Britain leaves the EU we will be outside of the EU borders and we will be outside of the jurisdiction of the EU courts. |
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"Matters of UK law need to be solely under the jurisdiction of UK courts.
They already arent. Theres a number of trade and other international courts and arbitration bodies above British courts.
The European Court of Justice won't be one of them after Brexit. We are leaving the EU and the jurisdiction of the EU courts.
You'll have a European court of arbitration for the rights of EU citizens. That may be the ECJ or it may come under a different name. But it will be a court with full or 50% EU staffing that will over rule British court decisions if needs be.
That's pure fantasyland on your part. British courts will be the final arbiter on legal affairs inside of the UK after Brexit and you can keep the ECJ as final arbiter over ruling your courts in Rep of Ireland and the rest of the EU. You don't seem to get it, the UK is leaving the EU, once we leave we will be outside of the EU, does the EU courts have jurisdiction over American courts for its citizens in America = No it doesn't, same for China, Australia, India, Japan, New Zealand, Russia and every other country in the world that is not in the EU. The UK is leaving the EU and joining the rest of the world outside, the jurisdiction of European courts will come to an end in the UK once we leave and we will be like the rest of the countries outside of the EU. If the EU said to USA or China or Russia, "our courts are going to start over ruling your domestic courts for the rights of our citizens" then you know they would tell the EU to Fuck off! The UK may be using more diplomatic language as part of the negotiations but break it down and the UK will basically tell the EU the same thing in less colorful language and rightly so. The EU is not a world governing body but the way you talk you certainly seem to think it is. You have the same mindset as the likes of Juncker and Tusk, you think the EU is bigger than it actually is and you've gotten far too big for your boots. In reality the EU is a small part of the world and it's about to get smaller and less influential once the UK leaves. The European Court of justice jurisdiction ends at the edge of the EU borders and once Britain leaves the EU we will be outside of the EU borders and we will be outside of the jurisdiction of the EU courts. "
I look forward to your u turn when the UK/EU court of arbitration is announced as having supremacy over British courts. Im sure you'll claim it was what you wanted all along and that it is a magnificent victory for Davis and May and the EU were made agree to it  |
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All comprehensive free trade agreements have to have some form of legally binding court of arbitration to settle disputes between the signatories of that agreement. In the case of the EU that court is European Court of Justice. Other comprehensive free trade agreements are arbitrated by the international Investor Court System (ICS) via the use of a thing called Investor State Dispute Resolution (ISDR)
Whether we use the ECJ or ICS to arbitrate disputes their rulings will be binding, they will have supremacy over British courts and their rulings, especially on health and safety issue, will effect ordinary people.
It's really very simple. If you're not prepared to accept an independent court of arbitration for dispute resolution then you're not going to get a comprehensive trade deal with anyone. |
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"Matters of UK law need to be solely under the jurisdiction of UK courts.
They already arent. Theres a number of trade and other international courts and arbitration bodies above British courts.
The European Court of Justice won't be one of them after Brexit. We are leaving the EU and the jurisdiction of the EU courts.
You'll have a European court of arbitration for the rights of EU citizens. That may be the ECJ or it may come under a different name. But it will be a court with full or 50% EU staffing that will over rule British court decisions if needs be.
That's pure fantasyland on your part. British courts will be the final arbiter on legal affairs inside of the UK after Brexit and you can keep the ECJ as final arbiter over ruling your courts in Rep of Ireland and the rest of the EU. You don't seem to get it, the UK is leaving the EU, once we leave we will be outside of the EU, does the EU courts have jurisdiction over American courts for its citizens in America = No it doesn't, same for China, Australia, India, Japan, New Zealand, Russia and every other country in the world that is not in the EU. The UK is leaving the EU and joining the rest of the world outside, the jurisdiction of European courts will come to an end in the UK once we leave and we will be like the rest of the countries outside of the EU. If the EU said to USA or China or Russia, "our courts are going to start over ruling your domestic courts for the rights of our citizens" then you know they would tell the EU to Fuck off! The UK may be using more diplomatic language as part of the negotiations but break it down and the UK will basically tell the EU the same thing in less colorful language and rightly so. The EU is not a world governing body but the way you talk you certainly seem to think it is. You have the same mindset as the likes of Juncker and Tusk, you think the EU is bigger than it actually is and you've gotten far too big for your boots. In reality the EU is a small part of the world and it's about to get smaller and less influential once the UK leaves. The European Court of justice jurisdiction ends at the edge of the EU borders and once Britain leaves the EU we will be outside of the EU borders and we will be outside of the jurisdiction of the EU courts. "
So when Davies and May finally negotiate this free trade agreement with the EU that will, according to Davies, be as good or better than our current free trade deal with the EU, who or what is going to arbitrate any disputes that might arise? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Matters of UK law need to be solely under the jurisdiction of UK courts.
They already arent. Theres a number of trade and other international courts and arbitration bodies above British courts.
The European Court of Justice won't be one of them after Brexit. We are leaving the EU and the jurisdiction of the EU courts.
You'll have a European court of arbitration for the rights of EU citizens. That may be the ECJ or it may come under a different name. But it will be a court with full or 50% EU staffing that will over rule British court decisions if needs be.
That's pure fantasyland on your part. British courts will be the final arbiter on legal affairs inside of the UK after Brexit and you can keep the ECJ as final arbiter over ruling your courts in Rep of Ireland and the rest of the EU. You don't seem to get it, the UK is leaving the EU, once we leave we will be outside of the EU, does the EU courts have jurisdiction over American courts for its citizens in America = No it doesn't, same for China, Australia, India, Japan, New Zealand, Russia and every other country in the world that is not in the EU. The UK is leaving the EU and joining the rest of the world outside, the jurisdiction of European courts will come to an end in the UK once we leave and we will be like the rest of the countries outside of the EU. If the EU said to USA or China or Russia, "our courts are going to start over ruling your domestic courts for the rights of our citizens" then you know they would tell the EU to Fuck off! The UK may be using more diplomatic language as part of the negotiations but break it down and the UK will basically tell the EU the same thing in less colorful language and rightly so. The EU is not a world governing body but the way you talk you certainly seem to think it is. You have the same mindset as the likes of Juncker and Tusk, you think the EU is bigger than it actually is and you've gotten far too big for your boots. In reality the EU is a small part of the world and it's about to get smaller and less influential once the UK leaves. The European Court of justice jurisdiction ends at the edge of the EU borders and once Britain leaves the EU we will be outside of the EU borders and we will be outside of the jurisdiction of the EU courts.
So when Davies and May finally negotiate this free trade agreement with the EU that will, according to Davies, be as good or better than our current free trade deal with the EU, who or what is going to arbitrate any disputes that might arise?"
Centaur will |
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Matters of UK law need to be solely under the jurisdiction of UK courts.
They already arent. Theres a number of trade and other international courts and arbitration bodies above British courts.
The European Court of Justice won't be one of them after Brexit. We are leaving the EU and the jurisdiction of the EU courts.
You'll have a European court of arbitration for the rights of EU citizens. That may be the ECJ or it may come under a different name. But it will be a court with full or 50% EU staffing that will over rule British court decisions if needs be.
That's pure fantasyland on your part. British courts will be the final arbiter on legal affairs inside of the UK after Brexit and you can keep the ECJ as final arbiter over ruling your courts in Rep of Ireland and the rest of the EU. You don't seem to get it, the UK is leaving the EU, once we leave we will be outside of the EU, does the EU courts have jurisdiction over American courts for its citizens in America = No it doesn't, same for China, Australia, India, Japan, New Zealand, Russia and every other country in the world that is not in the EU. The UK is leaving the EU and joining the rest of the world outside, the jurisdiction of European courts will come to an end in the UK once we leave and we will be like the rest of the countries outside of the EU. If the EU said to USA or China or Russia, "our courts are going to start over ruling your domestic courts for the rights of our citizens" then you know they would tell the EU to Fuck off! The UK may be using more diplomatic language as part of the negotiations but break it down and the UK will basically tell the EU the same thing in less colorful language and rightly so. The EU is not a world governing body but the way you talk you certainly seem to think it is. You have the same mindset as the likes of Juncker and Tusk, you think the EU is bigger than it actually is and you've gotten far too big for your boots. In reality the EU is a small part of the world and it's about to get smaller and less influential once the UK leaves. The European Court of justice jurisdiction ends at the edge of the EU borders and once Britain leaves the EU we will be outside of the EU borders and we will be outside of the jurisdiction of the EU courts.
So when Davies and May finally negotiate this free trade agreement with the EU that will, according to Davies, be as good or better than our current free trade deal with the EU, who or what is going to arbitrate any disputes that might arise?
Centaur will "
Very impartial!! |
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"
So when Davies and May finally negotiate this free trade agreement with the EU that will, according to Davies, be as good or better than our current free trade deal with the EU, who or what is going to arbitrate any disputes that might arise?
Centaur will "
Centaur: Todays ruling will see the UK pay a fine of several million pounds for breaching the rules of our trade agreement. This is a momentous victory for the UK as we always wanted to get rid of that extra money which was taking up space at the Central Bank.
Furthermore we will be subject to trade restrictions for a period of 5 years. This was a result we wanted from the start and is a humiliating defeat for the EU. The amount of variety was confusing for UK customers and the new higher prices will allow us to learn to be more frugal. The UK is stronger than ever thanks to our Dear Leader Theresa May who is expected to make a statement once she recovers from 17 stab wounds to the back she mysteriously suffered at the Tory conference. |
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"Matters of UK law need to be solely under the jurisdiction of UK courts.
They already arent. Theres a number of trade and other international courts and arbitration bodies above British courts.
The European Court of Justice won't be one of them after Brexit. We are leaving the EU and the jurisdiction of the EU courts.
You'll have a European court of arbitration for the rights of EU citizens. That may be the ECJ or it may come under a different name. But it will be a court with full or 50% EU staffing that will over rule British court decisions if needs be.
That's pure fantasyland on your part. British courts will be the final arbiter on legal affairs inside of the UK after Brexit and you can keep the ECJ as final arbiter over ruling your courts in Rep of Ireland and the rest of the EU. You don't seem to get it, the UK is leaving the EU, once we leave we will be outside of the EU, does the EU courts have jurisdiction over American courts for its citizens in America = No it doesn't, same for China, Australia, India, Japan, New Zealand, Russia and every other country in the world that is not in the EU. The UK is leaving the EU and joining the rest of the world outside, the jurisdiction of European courts will come to an end in the UK once we leave and we will be like the rest of the countries outside of the EU. If the EU said to USA or China or Russia, "our courts are going to start over ruling your domestic courts for the rights of our citizens" then you know they would tell the EU to Fuck off! The UK may be using more diplomatic language as part of the negotiations but break it down and the UK will basically tell the EU the same thing in less colorful language and rightly so. The EU is not a world governing body but the way you talk you certainly seem to think it is. You have the same mindset as the likes of Juncker and Tusk, you think the EU is bigger than it actually is and you've gotten far too big for your boots. In reality the EU is a small part of the world and it's about to get smaller and less influential once the UK leaves. The European Court of justice jurisdiction ends at the edge of the EU borders and once Britain leaves the EU we will be outside of the EU borders and we will be outside of the jurisdiction of the EU courts.
So when Davies and May finally negotiate this free trade agreement with the EU that will, according to Davies, be as good or better than our current free trade deal with the EU, who or what is going to arbitrate any disputes that might arise?
Centaur will
Very impartial!! "
And also thought through with flawless logic  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Matters of UK law need to be solely under the jurisdiction of UK courts.
They already arent. Theres a number of trade and other international courts and arbitration bodies above British courts.
The European Court of Justice won't be one of them after Brexit. We are leaving the EU and the jurisdiction of the EU courts.
You'll have a European court of arbitration for the rights of EU citizens. That may be the ECJ or it may come under a different name. But it will be a court with full or 50% EU staffing that will over rule British court decisions if needs be."
If you have a dispute between two parties the only fair resolution would be independent adjudication not by the EU or Uk
I think that will be agreeable to both parties |
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"Matters of UK law need to be solely under the jurisdiction of UK courts.
They already arent. Theres a number of trade and other international courts and arbitration bodies above British courts.
The European Court of Justice won't be one of them after Brexit. We are leaving the EU and the jurisdiction of the EU courts.
You'll have a European court of arbitration for the rights of EU citizens. That may be the ECJ or it may come under a different name. But it will be a court with full or 50% EU staffing that will over rule British court decisions if needs be.
That's pure fantasyland on your part. British courts will be the final arbiter on legal affairs inside of the UK after Brexit and you can keep the ECJ as final arbiter over ruling your courts in Rep of Ireland and the rest of the EU. You don't seem to get it, the UK is leaving the EU, once we leave we will be outside of the EU, does the EU courts have jurisdiction over American courts for its citizens in America = No it doesn't, same for China, Australia, India, Japan, New Zealand, Russia and every other country in the world that is not in the EU. The UK is leaving the EU and joining the rest of the world outside, the jurisdiction of European courts will come to an end in the UK once we leave and we will be like the rest of the countries outside of the EU. If the EU said to USA or China or Russia, "our courts are going to start over ruling your domestic courts for the rights of our citizens" then you know they would tell the EU to Fuck off! The UK may be using more diplomatic language as part of the negotiations but break it down and the UK will basically tell the EU the same thing in less colorful language and rightly so. The EU is not a world governing body but the way you talk you certainly seem to think it is. You have the same mindset as the likes of Juncker and Tusk, you think the EU is bigger than it actually is and you've gotten far too big for your boots. In reality the EU is a small part of the world and it's about to get smaller and less influential once the UK leaves. The European Court of justice jurisdiction ends at the edge of the EU borders and once Britain leaves the EU we will be outside of the EU borders and we will be outside of the jurisdiction of the EU courts.
So when Davies and May finally negotiate this free trade agreement with the EU that will, according to Davies, be as good or better than our current free trade deal with the EU, who or what is going to arbitrate any disputes that might arise?"
But answer comes there none! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Matters of UK law need to be solely under the jurisdiction of UK courts.
They already arent. Theres a number of trade and other international courts and arbitration bodies above British courts.
The European Court of Justice won't be one of them after Brexit. We are leaving the EU and the jurisdiction of the EU courts.
You'll have a European court of arbitration for the rights of EU citizens. That may be the ECJ or it may come under a different name. But it will be a court with full or 50% EU staffing that will over rule British court decisions if needs be.
That's pure fantasyland on your part. British courts will be the final arbiter on legal affairs inside of the UK after Brexit and you can keep the ECJ as final arbiter over ruling your courts in Rep of Ireland and the rest of the EU. You don't seem to get it, the UK is leaving the EU, once we leave we will be outside of the EU, does the EU courts have jurisdiction over American courts for its citizens in America = No it doesn't, same for China, Australia, India, Japan, New Zealand, Russia and every other country in the world that is not in the EU. The UK is leaving the EU and joining the rest of the world outside, the jurisdiction of European courts will come to an end in the UK once we leave and we will be like the rest of the countries outside of the EU. If the EU said to USA or China or Russia, "our courts are going to start over ruling your domestic courts for the rights of our citizens" then you know they would tell the EU to Fuck off! The UK may be using more diplomatic language as part of the negotiations but break it down and the UK will basically tell the EU the same thing in less colorful language and rightly so. The EU is not a world governing body but the way you talk you certainly seem to think it is. You have the same mindset as the likes of Juncker and Tusk, you think the EU is bigger than it actually is and you've gotten far too big for your boots. In reality the EU is a small part of the world and it's about to get smaller and less influential once the UK leaves. The European Court of justice jurisdiction ends at the edge of the EU borders and once Britain leaves the EU we will be outside of the EU borders and we will be outside of the jurisdiction of the EU courts.
So when Davies and May finally negotiate this free trade agreement with the EU that will, according to Davies, be as good or better than our current free trade deal with the EU, who or what is going to arbitrate any disputes that might arise?
But answer comes there none!"
Is that not the point of negotiations!! |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Matters of UK law need to be solely under the jurisdiction of UK courts.
They already arent. Theres a number of trade and other international courts and arbitration bodies above British courts.
The European Court of Justice won't be one of them after Brexit. We are leaving the EU and the jurisdiction of the EU courts.
You'll have a European court of arbitration for the rights of EU citizens. That may be the ECJ or it may come under a different name. But it will be a court with full or 50% EU staffing that will over rule British court decisions if needs be.
If you have a dispute between two parties the only fair resolution would be independent adjudication not by the EU or Uk
I think that will be agreeable to both parties"
Maybe the man in the moon or a martian,maybe doctor who.Yes as daft as your statement |
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Matters of UK law need to be solely under the jurisdiction of UK courts.
They already arent. Theres a number of trade and other international courts and arbitration bodies above British courts.
The European Court of Justice won't be one of them after Brexit. We are leaving the EU and the jurisdiction of the EU courts.
You'll have a European court of arbitration for the rights of EU citizens. That may be the ECJ or it may come under a different name. But it will be a court with full or 50% EU staffing that will over rule British court decisions if needs be.
If you have a dispute between two parties the only fair resolution would be independent adjudication not by the EU or Uk
I think that will be agreeable to both partiesMaybe the man in the moon or a martian,maybe doctor who.Yes as daft as your statement"
Every international trade deal has an adjudication process which is a higher court than the domestic courts. So is your solution to accept that, or to not have any international trade agreements? |
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"David Davis said today that there will be an international body to oversee trade deals. "
Sounds like a great idea!
I wonder why no one came up with the that idea before? Think you could have judges from around the world sit in judgement over international disputes, they could hold international tribunals and deliver rulings based on either international or local law with impartiality while applying the same rigorous legal standards to all. You would have to set it up somewhere known for its impartiality and stability.
How about the Netherlands? Maybe the Hague? you never know if the idea catches on the judges may be able to use their spare time to stop disputes in Europe causing another world war...
But we definitely wont be having anything to do with the european court or the ECHR when we take back control from those bastards in Brussels!
|
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"
I look forward to your u turn when the UK/EU court of arbitration is announced as having supremacy over British courts. Im sure you'll claim it was what you wanted all along and that it is a magnificent victory for Davis and May and the EU were made agree to it "
So Centaur you got exactly what I predicted last week. A new arbitration body that will be over the British court system. As you said yourself this was something to be eliminated by Brexit and yet here we are.
By my count thats 3 losses out of 3 for the May/Davis negotiating team. You should let No. 10 know that these are exactly the sort of issues the EU is supposed to be caving on due to the strong hand the UK has to play because they dont seem to realise |
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"David Davis said today that there will be an international body to oversee trade deals.
Sounds like a great idea!
I wonder why no one came up with the that idea before? Think you could have judges from around the world sit in judgement over international disputes, they could hold international tribunals and deliver rulings based on either international or local law with impartiality while applying the same rigorous legal standards to all. You would have to set it up somewhere known for its impartiality and stability.
How about the Netherlands? Maybe the Hague? you never know if the idea catches on the judges may be able to use their spare time to stop disputes in Europe causing another world war...
But we definitely wont be having anything to do with the european court or the ECHR when we take back control from those bastards in Brussels!
"
But Will, just think how bright our incandescent light bulbs will be! We won't even have to plug them in, they will glow through the power of patriotic feeling and nationalistic fervor! Oh it'll be good! |
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"David Davis said today that there will be an international body to oversee trade deals. "
He also said it won't be the European Court of Justice. The jurisdiction of the EU courts ends in Britain once we leave the EU. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"David Davis said today that there will be an international body to oversee trade deals.
He also said it won't be the European Court of Justice. The jurisdiction of the EU courts ends in Britain once we leave the EU. "
And i bet they back down on that as its already been hinted too...you see Centaur....you cant have laws for one set of residents in the UK and another set for other residents....why dont you just admit it and say they have fucked the lot up with this last election |
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"David Davis said today that there will be an international body to oversee trade deals.
He also said it won't be the European Court of Justice. The jurisdiction of the EU courts ends in Britain once we leave the EU. "
And replaced by another court, that's what you are claiming as a victory? 
At the moment the ECJ is made up of judges from the 28 member states, obviously including Britain. This new court that will oversee the new British-EU trade deal, what do you imagine its make up to be? |
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"
I look forward to your u turn when the UK/EU court of arbitration is announced as having supremacy over British courts. Im sure you'll claim it was what you wanted all along and that it is a magnificent victory for Davis and May and the EU were made agree to it
So Centaur you got exactly what I predicted last week. A new arbitration body that will be over the British court system. As you said yourself this was something to be eliminated by Brexit and yet here we are.
By my count thats 3 losses out of 3 for the May/Davis negotiating team. You should let No. 10 know that these are exactly the sort of issues the EU is supposed to be caving on due to the strong hand the UK has to play because they dont seem to realise "
You didn't predict it though. You do realise your earlier comments are still visible on the thread for all to see and read.
You predicted the EU courts would still have jurisdiction over British courts and it's clear now that isn't going to happen. An international court of arbitration is what is being suggested here so that is a world away from what you predicted. You called it wrong and it's clearly not 3 wins out of 3 for the EU. The uk is a member of Nato and I'm very happy with being part of international organisations such as Nato and the UN and the WTO (which we will soon re take our rightful place at to sign our own trade deals around the world). An international court of arbitration for things like trade is nothing new and works side by side with organisations like the WTO, good news as far as I can see and great news we are still heading for the EU exit door. The European Court of justice will have No authority over the UK once we leave, Zero, Zilch, Nada (which is what i predicted) I'm very happy about that. |
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"David Davis said today that there will be an international body to oversee trade deals.
He also said it won't be the European Court of Justice. The jurisdiction of the EU courts ends in Britain once we leave the EU.
And replaced by another court, that's what you are claiming as a victory?
At the moment the ECJ is made up of judges from the 28 member states, obviously including Britain. This new court that will oversee the new British-EU trade deal, what do you imagine its make up to be? "
Considering we will be re taking our seat at the WTO to sign our own trade deals around the world after Brexit, don't you think it's logical that we use an international court of arbitration. The jurisdiction of the ECJ over British courts will end after Brexit which is what I predicted and I for one am very happy about it. |
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"David Davis said today that there will be an international body to oversee trade deals.
He also said it won't be the European Court of Justice. The jurisdiction of the EU courts ends in Britain once we leave the EU.
And replaced by another court, that's what you are claiming as a victory?
At the moment the ECJ is made up of judges from the 28 member states, obviously including Britain. This new court that will oversee the new British-EU trade deal, what do you imagine its make up to be?
Considering we will be re taking our seat at the WTO to sign our own trade deals around the world after Brexit, don't you think it's logical that we use an international court of arbitration. The jurisdiction of the ECJ over British courts will end after Brexit which is what I predicted and I for one am very happy about it. "
Yeah, it makes sense, it makes sense that the court set up to over see the UK-EU trade deal will be made up of the EU 27 plus the UK (so 28 member states). What I cant understand is why you think that is any different for the current ECJ which is made up of the exact same 28 members! |
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"David Davis said today that there will be an international body to oversee trade deals.
He also said it won't be the European Court of Justice. The jurisdiction of the EU courts ends in Britain once we leave the EU.
And replaced by another court, that's what you are claiming as a victory?
At the moment the ECJ is made up of judges from the 28 member states, obviously including Britain. This new court that will oversee the new British-EU trade deal, what do you imagine its make up to be?
Considering we will be re taking our seat at the WTO to sign our own trade deals around the world after Brexit, don't you think it's logical that we use an international court of arbitration. The jurisdiction of the ECJ over British courts will end after Brexit which is what I predicted and I for one am very happy about it.
Yeah, it makes sense, it makes sense that the court set up to over see the UK-EU trade deal will be made up of the EU 27 plus the UK (so 28 member states). What I cant understand is why you think that is any different for the current ECJ which is made up of the exact same 28 members! "
After all, Davis is talking about creating a new body, which presumably will be bespoke to the EU-UK trade deal, rather than using existing bodies. |
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"David Davis said today that there will be an international body to oversee trade deals.
He also said it won't be the European Court of Justice. The jurisdiction of the EU courts ends in Britain once we leave the EU.
And replaced by another court, that's what you are claiming as a victory?
At the moment the ECJ is made up of judges from the 28 member states, obviously including Britain. This new court that will oversee the new British-EU trade deal, what do you imagine its make up to be?
Considering we will be re taking our seat at the WTO to sign our own trade deals around the world after Brexit, don't you think it's logical that we use an international court of arbitration. The jurisdiction of the ECJ over British courts will end after Brexit which is what I predicted and I for one am very happy about it.
Yeah, it makes sense, it makes sense that the court set up to over see the UK-EU trade deal will be made up of the EU 27 plus the UK (so 28 member states). What I cant understand is why you think that is any different for the current ECJ which is made up of the exact same 28 members! "
I don't think you understand the concept of international, lol. It was you who brought up David Davis comments to begin with so I'm sure you heard him say there could be an arbitration court with say 4 judges from Britain and 4 judges from the EU to oversee it. That makes an equal and fair court in my opinion. Besides it could go much wider than that if it is truly an international court you could have judges from outside of Britain and the EU to act a neutrals in any dispute. |
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"
I look forward to your u turn when the UK/EU court of arbitration is announced as having supremacy over British courts. Im sure you'll claim it was what you wanted all along and that it is a magnificent victory for Davis and May and the EU were made agree to it
So Centaur you got exactly what I predicted last week. A new arbitration body that will be over the British court system. As you said yourself this was something to be eliminated by Brexit and yet here we are.
By my count thats 3 losses out of 3 for the May/Davis negotiating team. You should let No. 10 know that these are exactly the sort of issues the EU is supposed to be caving on due to the strong hand the UK has to play because they dont seem to realise
You didn't predict it though. You do realise your earlier comments are still visible on the thread for all to see and read.
You predicted the EU courts would still have jurisdiction over British courts and it's clear now that isn't going to happen. An international court of arbitration is what is being suggested here so that is a world away from what you predicted. You called it wrong and it's clearly not 3 wins out of 3 for the EU. The uk is a member of Nato and I'm very happy with being part of international organisations such as Nato and the UN and the WTO (which we will soon re take our rightful place at to sign our own trade deals around the world). An international court of arbitration for things like trade is nothing new and works side by side with organisations like the WTO, good news as far as I can see and great news we are still heading for the EU exit door. The European Court of justice will have No authority over the UK once we leave, Zero, Zilch, Nada (which is what i predicted) I'm very happy about that. "
I do know my previous comments are here,I quoted them in my last post. In fact I left it at the top of this post. An EU/UK court of arbitration is exactly what I said and you can see it there |
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"
I look forward to your u turn when the UK/EU court of arbitration is announced as having supremacy over British courts. Im sure you'll claim it was what you wanted all along and that it is a magnificent victory for Davis and May and the EU were made agree to it
So Centaur you got exactly what I predicted last week. A new arbitration body that will be over the British court system. As you said yourself this was something to be eliminated by Brexit and yet here we are.
By my count thats 3 losses out of 3 for the May/Davis negotiating team. You should let No. 10 know that these are exactly the sort of issues the EU is supposed to be caving on due to the strong hand the UK has to play because they dont seem to realise
You didn't predict it though. You do realise your earlier comments are still visible on the thread for all to see and read.
You predicted the EU courts would still have jurisdiction over British courts and it's clear now that isn't going to happen. An international court of arbitration is what is being suggested here so that is a world away from what you predicted. You called it wrong and it's clearly not 3 wins out of 3 for the EU. The uk is a member of Nato and I'm very happy with being part of international organisations such as Nato and the UN and the WTO (which we will soon re take our rightful place at to sign our own trade deals around the world). An international court of arbitration for things like trade is nothing new and works side by side with organisations like the WTO, good news as far as I can see and great news we are still heading for the EU exit door. The European Court of justice will have No authority over the UK once we leave, Zero, Zilch, Nada (which is what i predicted) I'm very happy about that.
I do know my previous comments are here,I quoted them in my last post. In fact I left it at the top of this post. An EU/UK court of arbitration is exactly what I said and you can see it there "
An international court of arbitration is what is being suggested though, that goes much wider than the EU/UK court that you wrongly predicted. I suggest you go and look up the word international in the dictionary as you seem to be having trouble understanding what it means. |
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"
I look forward to your u turn when the UK/EU court of arbitration is announced as having supremacy over British courts. Im sure you'll claim it was what you wanted all along and that it is a magnificent victory for Davis and May and the EU were made agree to it
So Centaur you got exactly what I predicted last week. A new arbitration body that will be over the British court system. As you said yourself this was something to be eliminated by Brexit and yet here we are.
By my count thats 3 losses out of 3 for the May/Davis negotiating team. You should let No. 10 know that these are exactly the sort of issues the EU is supposed to be caving on due to the strong hand the UK has to play because they dont seem to realise
You didn't predict it though. You do realise your earlier comments are still visible on the thread for all to see and read.
You predicted the EU courts would still have jurisdiction over British courts and it's clear now that isn't going to happen. An international court of arbitration is what is being suggested here so that is a world away from what you predicted. You called it wrong and it's clearly not 3 wins out of 3 for the EU. The uk is a member of Nato and I'm very happy with being part of international organisations such as Nato and the UN and the WTO (which we will soon re take our rightful place at to sign our own trade deals around the world). An international court of arbitration for things like trade is nothing new and works side by side with organisations like the WTO, good news as far as I can see and great news we are still heading for the EU exit door. The European Court of justice will have No authority over the UK once we leave, Zero, Zilch, Nada (which is what i predicted) I'm very happy about that.
I do know my previous comments are here,I quoted them in my last post. In fact I left it at the top of this post. An EU/UK court of arbitration is exactly what I said and you can see it there
An international court of arbitration is what is being suggested though, that goes much wider than the EU/UK court that you wrongly predicted. I suggest you go and look up the word international in the dictionary as you seem to be having trouble understanding what it means. "
International: Between nations. Eg. There is a court of arbitration between the UK and the 27 countries that will remain in the EU, it is an international court. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
I look forward to your u turn when the UK/EU court of arbitration is announced as having supremacy over British courts. Im sure you'll claim it was what you wanted all along and that it is a magnificent victory for Davis and May and the EU were made agree to it
So Centaur you got exactly what I predicted last week. A new arbitration body that will be over the British court system. As you said yourself this was something to be eliminated by Brexit and yet here we are.
By my count thats 3 losses out of 3 for the May/Davis negotiating team. You should let No. 10 know that these are exactly the sort of issues the EU is supposed to be caving on due to the strong hand the UK has to play because they dont seem to realise
You didn't predict it though. You do realise your earlier comments are still visible on the thread for all to see and read.
You predicted the EU courts would still have jurisdiction over British courts and it's clear now that isn't going to happen. An international court of arbitration is what is being suggested here so that is a world away from what you predicted. You called it wrong and it's clearly not 3 wins out of 3 for the EU. The uk is a member of Nato and I'm very happy with being part of international organisations such as Nato and the UN and the WTO (which we will soon re take our rightful place at to sign our own trade deals around the world). An international court of arbitration for things like trade is nothing new and works side by side with organisations like the WTO, good news as far as I can see and great news we are still heading for the EU exit door. The European Court of justice will have No authority over the UK once we leave, Zero, Zilch, Nada (which is what i predicted) I'm very happy about that.
I do know my previous comments are here,I quoted them in my last post. In fact I left it at the top of this post. An EU/UK court of arbitration is exactly what I said and you can see it there
An international court of arbitration is what is being suggested though, that goes much wider than the EU/UK court that you wrongly predicted. I suggest you go and look up the word international in the dictionary as you seem to be having trouble understanding what it means. "
Centaur...what dont you get about the Brexit discussions...there talking about the EU ..not the rest of the world...sorry but are you that blinkered...what is David Davies role in the government |
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"
I look forward to your u turn when the UK/EU court of arbitration is announced as having supremacy over British courts. Im sure you'll claim it was what you wanted all along and that it is a magnificent victory for Davis and May and the EU were made agree to it
So Centaur you got exactly what I predicted last week. A new arbitration body that will be over the British court system. As you said yourself this was something to be eliminated by Brexit and yet here we are.
By my count thats 3 losses out of 3 for the May/Davis negotiating team. You should let No. 10 know that these are exactly the sort of issues the EU is supposed to be caving on due to the strong hand the UK has to play because they dont seem to realise
You didn't predict it though. You do realise your earlier comments are still visible on the thread for all to see and read.
You predicted the EU courts would still have jurisdiction over British courts and it's clear now that isn't going to happen. An international court of arbitration is what is being suggested here so that is a world away from what you predicted. You called it wrong and it's clearly not 3 wins out of 3 for the EU. The uk is a member of Nato and I'm very happy with being part of international organisations such as Nato and the UN and the WTO (which we will soon re take our rightful place at to sign our own trade deals around the world). An international court of arbitration for things like trade is nothing new and works side by side with organisations like the WTO, good news as far as I can see and great news we are still heading for the EU exit door. The European Court of justice will have No authority over the UK once we leave, Zero, Zilch, Nada (which is what i predicted) I'm very happy about that.
I do know my previous comments are here,I quoted them in my last post. In fact I left it at the top of this post. An EU/UK court of arbitration is exactly what I said and you can see it there
An international court of arbitration is what is being suggested though, that goes much wider than the EU/UK court that you wrongly predicted. I suggest you go and look up the word international in the dictionary as you seem to be having trouble understanding what it means.
International: Between nations. Eg. There is a court of arbitration between the UK and the 27 countries that will remain in the EU, it is an international court."
International: Existing, occuring or carried on between nations.
Synonyms: Global, worldwide, intercontinental.
Eg, it goes much further than just the UK and the EU 27.
|
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"
I look forward to your u turn when the UK/EU court of arbitration is announced as having supremacy over British courts. Im sure you'll claim it was what you wanted all along and that it is a magnificent victory for Davis and May and the EU were made agree to it
So Centaur you got exactly what I predicted last week. A new arbitration body that will be over the British court system. As you said yourself this was something to be eliminated by Brexit and yet here we are.
By my count thats 3 losses out of 3 for the May/Davis negotiating team. You should let No. 10 know that these are exactly the sort of issues the EU is supposed to be caving on due to the strong hand the UK has to play because they dont seem to realise
You didn't predict it though. You do realise your earlier comments are still visible on the thread for all to see and read.
You predicted the EU courts would still have jurisdiction over British courts and it's clear now that isn't going to happen. An international court of arbitration is what is being suggested here so that is a world away from what you predicted. You called it wrong and it's clearly not 3 wins out of 3 for the EU. The uk is a member of Nato and I'm very happy with being part of international organisations such as Nato and the UN and the WTO (which we will soon re take our rightful place at to sign our own trade deals around the world). An international court of arbitration for things like trade is nothing new and works side by side with organisations like the WTO, good news as far as I can see and great news we are still heading for the EU exit door. The European Court of justice will have No authority over the UK once we leave, Zero, Zilch, Nada (which is what i predicted) I'm very happy about that.
I do know my previous comments are here,I quoted them in my last post. In fact I left it at the top of this post. An EU/UK court of arbitration is exactly what I said and you can see it there
An international court of arbitration is what is being suggested though, that goes much wider than the EU/UK court that you wrongly predicted. I suggest you go and look up the word international in the dictionary as you seem to be having trouble understanding what it means.
Centaur...what dont you get about the Brexit discussions...there talking about the EU ..not the rest of the world...sorry but are you that blinkered...what is David Davies role in the government "
Wrong, a big part of Brexit is fundamentally about the UK having international trade and signing our own trade deals outside of the EU, taking our seat back at the WTO, etc. What is Liam Fox's role in the government. |
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"
I look forward to your u turn when the UK/EU court of arbitration is announced as having supremacy over British courts. Im sure you'll claim it was what you wanted all along and that it is a magnificent victory for Davis and May and the EU were made agree to it
So Centaur you got exactly what I predicted last week. A new arbitration body that will be over the British court system. As you said yourself this was something to be eliminated by Brexit and yet here we are.
By my count thats 3 losses out of 3 for the May/Davis negotiating team. You should let No. 10 know that these are exactly the sort of issues the EU is supposed to be caving on due to the strong hand the UK has to play because they dont seem to realise
You didn't predict it though. You do realise your earlier comments are still visible on the thread for all to see and read.
You predicted the EU courts would still have jurisdiction over British courts and it's clear now that isn't going to happen. An international court of arbitration is what is being suggested here so that is a world away from what you predicted. You called it wrong and it's clearly not 3 wins out of 3 for the EU. The uk is a member of Nato and I'm very happy with being part of international organisations such as Nato and the UN and the WTO (which we will soon re take our rightful place at to sign our own trade deals around the world). An international court of arbitration for things like trade is nothing new and works side by side with organisations like the WTO, good news as far as I can see and great news we are still heading for the EU exit door. The European Court of justice will have No authority over the UK once we leave, Zero, Zilch, Nada (which is what i predicted) I'm very happy about that.
I do know my previous comments are here,I quoted them in my last post. In fact I left it at the top of this post. An EU/UK court of arbitration is exactly what I said and you can see it there
An international court of arbitration is what is being suggested though, that goes much wider than the EU/UK court that you wrongly predicted. I suggest you go and look up the word international in the dictionary as you seem to be having trouble understanding what it means.
International: Between nations. Eg. There is a court of arbitration between the UK and the 27 countries that will remain in the EU, it is an international court.
International: Existing, occuring or carried on between nations.
Synonyms: Global, worldwide, intercontinental.
Eg, it goes much further than just the UK and the EU 27.
"
Why would other countries sign up to this new court? What part of the negotiation process is the one where America and China join in to discuss how this court will be set up?
You're clutching at straws Centaur. The court will be set up as part of these negotiations because the court is an essential part of the final deal for both sides. No ones going to sign up to it without knowing what its scope is, what its powers are and what its make up will be.
You've traded a court made up of judges from the UK and 27 other EU countries for a court with a new name made up of judges from the UK and 27 other EU countries.
Heres a post I wrote *last week*:
"They will agree to international arbitration that is above British courts (ECJ or a specific court, doesnt particularly matter which since its just a rose with another name, but it will be above the British court system in these matters)...
Thats whats going to happen because thats what the EU wants. And the UK has no leverage. Instead of wasting time they should just agree instead of dragging this out in the hopes of getting something symbolic like a different name on the court that will be above the British courts. Because only an idiot would see that as any sort of victory."
So... are you claiming that this court of arbitration that rules over the British court that will draw judges from the same pool as the ECJ is a victory? Because this is where Davis has moved to currently, the EU hasnt agreed to it yet. |
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"
I look forward to your u turn when the UK/EU court of arbitration is announced as having supremacy over British courts. Im sure you'll claim it was what you wanted all along and that it is a magnificent victory for Davis and May and the EU were made agree to it
So Centaur you got exactly what I predicted last week. A new arbitration body that will be over the British court system. As you said yourself this was something to be eliminated by Brexit and yet here we are.
By my count thats 3 losses out of 3 for the May/Davis negotiating team. You should let No. 10 know that these are exactly the sort of issues the EU is supposed to be caving on due to the strong hand the UK has to play because they dont seem to realise
You didn't predict it though. You do realise your earlier comments are still visible on the thread for all to see and read.
You predicted the EU courts would still have jurisdiction over British courts and it's clear now that isn't going to happen. An international court of arbitration is what is being suggested here so that is a world away from what you predicted. You called it wrong and it's clearly not 3 wins out of 3 for the EU. The uk is a member of Nato and I'm very happy with being part of international organisations such as Nato and the UN and the WTO (which we will soon re take our rightful place at to sign our own trade deals around the world). An international court of arbitration for things like trade is nothing new and works side by side with organisations like the WTO, good news as far as I can see and great news we are still heading for the EU exit door. The European Court of justice will have No authority over the UK once we leave, Zero, Zilch, Nada (which is what i predicted) I'm very happy about that.
I do know my previous comments are here,I quoted them in my last post. In fact I left it at the top of this post. An EU/UK court of arbitration is exactly what I said and you can see it there
An international court of arbitration is what is being suggested though, that goes much wider than the EU/UK court that you wrongly predicted. I suggest you go and look up the word international in the dictionary as you seem to be having trouble understanding what it means.
International: Between nations. Eg. There is a court of arbitration between the UK and the 27 countries that will remain in the EU, it is an international court.
International: Existing, occuring or carried on between nations.
Synonyms: Global, worldwide, intercontinental.
Eg, it goes much further than just the UK and the EU 27.
Why would other countries sign up to this new court? What part of the negotiation process is the one where America and China join in to discuss how this court will be set up?
You're clutching at straws Centaur. The court will be set up as part of these negotiations because the court is an essential part of the final deal for both sides. No ones going to sign up to it without knowing what its scope is, what its powers are and what its make up will be.
You've traded a court made up of judges from the UK and 27 other EU countries for a court with a new name made up of judges from the UK and 27 other EU countries.
Heres a post I wrote *last week*:
They will agree to international arbitration that is above British courts (ECJ or a specific court, doesnt particularly matter which since its just a rose with another name, but it will be above the British court system in these matters)...
Thats whats going to happen because thats what the EU wants. And the UK has no leverage. Instead of wasting time they should just agree instead of dragging this out in the hopes of getting something symbolic like a different name on the court that will be above the British courts. Because only an idiot would see that as any sort of victory.
So... are you claiming that this court of arbitration that rules over the British court that will draw judges from the same pool as the ECJ is a victory? Because this is where Davis has moved to currently, the EU hasnt agreed to it yet."
Davis hasn't agreed to any final deal either, it is an ongoing negotiation so your claims of victory for the EU are premature and non existent. A worldwide international court of Arbitration already exits, I think It was Unleashed Kraken who mentioned it earlier in the thread. As we will be taking our seat back at the WTO after Brexit then the existing international court of arbitration could be the court that oversees any disputes. One thing is guaranteed that is the UK will not be over ruled by the European Court of justice anymore. That comes to an end after Brexit. |
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"
I look forward to your u turn when the UK/EU court of arbitration is announced as having supremacy over British courts. Im sure you'll claim it was what you wanted all along and that it is a magnificent victory for Davis and May and the EU were made agree to it
So Centaur you got exactly what I predicted last week. A new arbitration body that will be over the British court system. As you said yourself this was something to be eliminated by Brexit and yet here we are.
By my count thats 3 losses out of 3 for the May/Davis negotiating team. You should let No. 10 know that these are exactly the sort of issues the EU is supposed to be caving on due to the strong hand the UK has to play because they dont seem to realise
You didn't predict it though. You do realise your earlier comments are still visible on the thread for all to see and read.
You predicted the EU courts would still have jurisdiction over British courts and it's clear now that isn't going to happen. An international court of arbitration is what is being suggested here so that is a world away from what you predicted. You called it wrong and it's clearly not 3 wins out of 3 for the EU. The uk is a member of Nato and I'm very happy with being part of international organisations such as Nato and the UN and the WTO (which we will soon re take our rightful place at to sign our own trade deals around the world). An international court of arbitration for things like trade is nothing new and works side by side with organisations like the WTO, good news as far as I can see and great news we are still heading for the EU exit door. The European Court of justice will have No authority over the UK once we leave, Zero, Zilch, Nada (which is what i predicted) I'm very happy about that.
I do know my previous comments are here,I quoted them in my last post. In fact I left it at the top of this post. An EU/UK court of arbitration is exactly what I said and you can see it there
An international court of arbitration is what is being suggested though, that goes much wider than the EU/UK court that you wrongly predicted. I suggest you go and look up the word international in the dictionary as you seem to be having trouble understanding what it means.
International: Between nations. Eg. There is a court of arbitration between the UK and the 27 countries that will remain in the EU, it is an international court.
International: Existing, occuring or carried on between nations.
Synonyms: Global, worldwide, intercontinental.
Eg, it goes much further than just the UK and the EU 27.
Why would other countries sign up to this new court? What part of the negotiation process is the one where America and China join in to discuss how this court will be set up?
You're clutching at straws Centaur. The court will be set up as part of these negotiations because the court is an essential part of the final deal for both sides. No ones going to sign up to it without knowing what its scope is, what its powers are and what its make up will be.
You've traded a court made up of judges from the UK and 27 other EU countries for a court with a new name made up of judges from the UK and 27 other EU countries.
Heres a post I wrote *last week*:
They will agree to international arbitration that is above British courts (ECJ or a specific court, doesnt particularly matter which since its just a rose with another name, but it will be above the British court system in these matters)...
Thats whats going to happen because thats what the EU wants. And the UK has no leverage. Instead of wasting time they should just agree instead of dragging this out in the hopes of getting something symbolic like a different name on the court that will be above the British courts. Because only an idiot would see that as any sort of victory.
So... are you claiming that this court of arbitration that rules over the British court that will draw judges from the same pool as the ECJ is a victory? Because this is where Davis has moved to currently, the EU hasnt agreed to it yet.
Davis hasn't agreed to any final deal either, it is an ongoing negotiation so your claims of victory for the EU are premature and non existent. A worldwide international court of Arbitration already exits, I think It was Unleashed Kraken who mentioned it earlier in the thread. As we will be taking our seat back at the WTO after Brexit then the existing international court of arbitration could be the court that oversees any disputes. One thing is guaranteed that is the UK will not be over ruled by the European Court of justice anymore. That comes to an end after Brexit. "
Yes Davis didn't say that he wanted to use that. He specifically said he wanted a new body. The WTO court would only rule on trade under WTO rules. You have said that the EU will have to accept the FTA offered by the UK and that we wont fall back on to WTO rules and tariffs.
I think it's hilarious Centaur that you have complained about the EU being unaccountable, and now you are suggesting a court be made up of judges from countries around the world, that have nothing to do with the UK. Why would you rather accept a judgement from judges from Argentina, Iran, Russia, Malaysia, Tunisia or Korea, than judges from the UK, France, Spain and Germany etc? |
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Davis hasn't agreed to any final deal either, it is an ongoing negotiation so your claims of victory for the EU are premature and non existent. A worldwide international court of Arbitration already exits, I think It was Unleashed Kraken who mentioned it earlier in the thread. As we will be taking our seat back at the WTO after Brexit then the existing international court of arbitration could be the court that oversees any disputes. One thing is guaranteed that is the UK will not be over ruled by the European Court of justice anymore. That comes to an end after Brexit. "
The International Court of Arbitration exists to resolve disputes between commercial entities. The Permanent Court of Arbitration can oversee disputes between trade. But heres the thing, arbitration and courts arent the same thing. They're different means of resolution. So you have one or the other and both Britain and the EU have favoured traditional courts over arbitration. So the permanent courts of arbitration are not likely to be either parties goal.
The ECJ is there to sit in judgement of the rules and laws of the 28 countries and made up of judges from those countries. It is above the courts of those 28 countries.
Instead of this Davis is proposing a court to sit in judgement of the rules and laws between Britain and the other 27 countries, made up of judges from the 28 countries and above the courts of those countries.
It will be the same judges drawn from the same pool as the ECJ, likely even sitting in the exact same courtrooms the ECJ does, making the same rulings on the agreements between the 27 countries and Britain. But it will have a different name. And the name will make all the difference in the world for you.
Same courts, same lawyers, same judges, same power to overrule the British courts. But a new name means victory for the Tories and Brexit!! |
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"
Davis hasn't agreed to any final deal either, it is an ongoing negotiation so your claims of victory for the EU are premature and non existent. A worldwide international court of Arbitration already exits, I think It was Unleashed Kraken who mentioned it earlier in the thread. As we will be taking our seat back at the WTO after Brexit then the existing international court of arbitration could be the court that oversees any disputes. One thing is guaranteed that is the UK will not be over ruled by the European Court of justice anymore. That comes to an end after Brexit.
The International Court of Arbitration exists to resolve disputes between commercial entities. The Permanent Court of Arbitration can oversee disputes between trade. But heres the thing, arbitration and courts arent the same thing. They're different means of resolution. So you have one or the other and both Britain and the EU have favoured traditional courts over arbitration. So the permanent courts of arbitration are not likely to be either parties goal.
The ECJ is there to sit in judgement of the rules and laws of the 28 countries and made up of judges from those countries. It is above the courts of those 28 countries.
Instead of this Davis is proposing a court to sit in judgement of the rules and laws between Britain and the other 27 countries, made up of judges from the 28 countries and above the courts of those countries.
It will be the same judges drawn from the same pool as the ECJ, likely even sitting in the exact same courtrooms the ECJ does, making the same rulings on the agreements between the 27 countries and Britain. But it will have a different name. And the name will make all the difference in the world for you.
Same courts, same lawyers, same judges, same power to overrule the British courts. But a new name means victory for the Tories and Brexit!!"
It's so ridiculous that Centaur is the only Brexiter willing to try and defend it. The other brexiters as staying well clear as the farce is so obvious! |
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"David Davis said today that there will be an international body to oversee trade deals.
He also said it won't be the European Court of Justice. The jurisdiction of the EU courts ends in Britain once we leave the EU. "
A rose by any other name is still a rose.
The reality is is that whether we call it the European Court of Justice, The European Free Trade Area Court of Justice, The UK European Dispute Resolution Court or any other name you choose it's basically going to be doing the exact same job that the ECJ does now. So what's the point? Or do BREXITers just like creating loads of additional red tape, bureaucracy and pointless regulations? |
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"
I look forward to your u turn when the UK/EU court of arbitration is announced as having supremacy over British courts. Im sure you'll claim it was what you wanted all along and that it is a magnificent victory for Davis and May and the EU were made agree to it
So Centaur you got exactly what I predicted last week. A new arbitration body that will be over the British court system. As you said yourself this was something to be eliminated by Brexit and yet here we are.
By my count thats 3 losses out of 3 for the May/Davis negotiating team. You should let No. 10 know that these are exactly the sort of issues the EU is supposed to be caving on due to the strong hand the UK has to play because they dont seem to realise
You didn't predict it though. You do realise your earlier comments are still visible on the thread for all to see and read.
You predicted the EU courts would still have jurisdiction over British courts and it's clear now that isn't going to happen. An international court of arbitration is what is being suggested here so that is a world away from what you predicted. You called it wrong and it's clearly not 3 wins out of 3 for the EU. The uk is a member of Nato and I'm very happy with being part of international organisations such as Nato and the UN and the WTO (which we will soon re take our rightful place at to sign our own trade deals around the world). An international court of arbitration for things like trade is nothing new and works side by side with organisations like the WTO, good news as far as I can see and great news we are still heading for the EU exit door. The European Court of justice will have No authority over the UK once we leave, Zero, Zilch, Nada (which is what i predicted) I'm very happy about that.
I do know my previous comments are here,I quoted them in my last post. In fact I left it at the top of this post. An EU/UK court of arbitration is exactly what I said and you can see it there
An international court of arbitration is what is being suggested though, that goes much wider than the EU/UK court that you wrongly predicted. I suggest you go and look up the word international in the dictionary as you seem to be having trouble understanding what it means.
International: Between nations. Eg. There is a court of arbitration between the UK and the 27 countries that will remain in the EU, it is an international court.
International: Existing, occuring or carried on between nations.
Synonyms: Global, worldwide, intercontinental.
Eg, it goes much further than just the UK and the EU 27.
Why would other countries sign up to this new court? What part of the negotiation process is the one where America and China join in to discuss how this court will be set up?
You're clutching at straws Centaur. The court will be set up as part of these negotiations because the court is an essential part of the final deal for both sides. No ones going to sign up to it without knowing what its scope is, what its powers are and what its make up will be.
You've traded a court made up of judges from the UK and 27 other EU countries for a court with a new name made up of judges from the UK and 27 other EU countries.
Heres a post I wrote *last week*:
They will agree to international arbitration that is above British courts (ECJ or a specific court, doesnt particularly matter which since its just a rose with another name, but it will be above the British court system in these matters)...
Thats whats going to happen because thats what the EU wants. And the UK has no leverage. Instead of wasting time they should just agree instead of dragging this out in the hopes of getting something symbolic like a different name on the court that will be above the British courts. Because only an idiot would see that as any sort of victory.
So... are you claiming that this court of arbitration that rules over the British court that will draw judges from the same pool as the ECJ is a victory? Because this is where Davis has moved to currently, the EU hasnt agreed to it yet.
Davis hasn't agreed to any final deal either, it is an ongoing negotiation so your claims of victory for the EU are premature and non existent. A worldwide international court of Arbitration already exits, I think It was Unleashed Kraken who mentioned it earlier in the thread. As we will be taking our seat back at the WTO after Brexit then the existing international court of arbitration could be the court that oversees any disputes. One thing is guaranteed that is the UK will not be over ruled by the European Court of justice anymore. That comes to an end after Brexit. "
The system I referred to was the ICS (International Court System) and the mechanism for trade disputes is via ISDR (Investor State Dispute Resolution) unless an alternative is agreed. The ECJ is part of the International Court System and has jurisdiction in the EU. There is also the EFTA CJ which has jurisdiction over the EU and EFTA members. Both courts base their rulings on EU Single Market law.
The other alternative is ISDRs but these in fact remove more sovereignty and control form National Governments and allow any Organisation, not being a part of the sued state, to sue National Governments for loss of earnings resulting from a change in government policy.
If BREXIT is about 'taking back control' choosing to use the International Court System and ISDRs is definitely not the way to achieve that. The basic ICS rules don't even require that British judges are even part of the make up.
At the end of the day the only possible outcome is the ECJ, something that does exactly the same thing as the ECJ or the much worse alternative of ICS. All of these alternatives require British acceptance of a court that has supremacy, jurisdiction and ultimately legally binding powers over the UK.
A rose is still a rose by what ever name you give it. |
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" It's so ridiculous that Centaur is the only Brexiter willing to try and defend it. The other brexiters as staying well clear as the farce is so obvious! "
The more things that are agreed in these negotiations the quieter Brexiteers will be. As we've seen since the referendum they dont want to face reality but now reality is hitting home. Soon there'll be no one trying to defend it as the EU runs roughshod over their dreams because Britain cant survive without the EU and the tories have entered into this so naively and incompetently and unprepared its actually made it even worse for their negotiating position.
If the Tories had demanded the details of a transitional arrangement be agreed before triggering article 50 (as they should) then they would be in a much stronger position to negotiate. Now theres a deadline thats coming fast and they have to agree a deal or lose everything. |
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"
I look forward to your u turn when the UK/EU court of arbitration is announced as having supremacy over British courts. Im sure you'll claim it was what you wanted all along and that it is a magnificent victory for Davis and May and the EU were made agree to it
So Centaur you got exactly what I predicted last week. A new arbitration body that will be over the British court system. As you said yourself this was something to be eliminated by Brexit and yet here we are.
By my count thats 3 losses out of 3 for the May/Davis negotiating team. You should let No. 10 know that these are exactly the sort of issues the EU is supposed to be caving on due to the strong hand the UK has to play because they dont seem to realise
You didn't predict it though. You do realise your earlier comments are still visible on the thread for all to see and read.
You predicted the EU courts would still have jurisdiction over British courts and it's clear now that isn't going to happen. An international court of arbitration is what is being suggested here so that is a world away from what you predicted. You called it wrong and it's clearly not 3 wins out of 3 for the EU. The uk is a member of Nato and I'm very happy with being part of international organisations such as Nato and the UN and the WTO (which we will soon re take our rightful place at to sign our own trade deals around the world). An international court of arbitration for things like trade is nothing new and works side by side with organisations like the WTO, good news as far as I can see and great news we are still heading for the EU exit door. The European Court of justice will have No authority over the UK once we leave, Zero, Zilch, Nada (which is what i predicted) I'm very happy about that.
I do know my previous comments are here,I quoted them in my last post. In fact I left it at the top of this post. An EU/UK court of arbitration is exactly what I said and you can see it there
An international court of arbitration is what is being suggested though, that goes much wider than the EU/UK court that you wrongly predicted. I suggest you go and look up the word international in the dictionary as you seem to be having trouble understanding what it means.
International: Between nations. Eg. There is a court of arbitration between the UK and the 27 countries that will remain in the EU, it is an international court.
International: Existing, occuring or carried on between nations.
Synonyms: Global, worldwide, intercontinental.
Eg, it goes much further than just the UK and the EU 27.
Why would other countries sign up to this new court? What part of the negotiation process is the one where America and China join in to discuss how this court will be set up?
You're clutching at straws Centaur. The court will be set up as part of these negotiations because the court is an essential part of the final deal for both sides. No ones going to sign up to it without knowing what its scope is, what its powers are and what its make up will be.
You've traded a court made up of judges from the UK and 27 other EU countries for a court with a new name made up of judges from the UK and 27 other EU countries.
Heres a post I wrote *last week*:
They will agree to international arbitration that is above British courts (ECJ or a specific court, doesnt particularly matter which since its just a rose with another name, but it will be above the British court system in these matters)...
Thats whats going to happen because thats what the EU wants. And the UK has no leverage. Instead of wasting time they should just agree instead of dragging this out in the hopes of getting something symbolic like a different name on the court that will be above the British courts. Because only an idiot would see that as any sort of victory.
So... are you claiming that this court of arbitration that rules over the British court that will draw judges from the same pool as the ECJ is a victory? Because this is where Davis has moved to currently, the EU hasnt agreed to it yet.
Davis hasn't agreed to any final deal either, it is an ongoing negotiation so your claims of victory for the EU are premature and non existent. A worldwide international court of Arbitration already exits, I think It was Unleashed Kraken who mentioned it earlier in the thread. As we will be taking our seat back at the WTO after Brexit then the existing international court of arbitration could be the court that oversees any disputes. One thing is guaranteed that is the UK will not be over ruled by the European Court of justice anymore. That comes to an end after Brexit.
The system I referred to was the ICS (International Court System) and the mechanism for trade disputes is via ISDR (Investor State Dispute Resolution) unless an alternative is agreed. The ECJ is part of the International Court System and has jurisdiction in the EU. There is also the EFTA CJ which has jurisdiction over the EU and EFTA members. Both courts base their rulings on EU Single Market law.
The other alternative is ISDRs but these in fact remove more sovereignty and control form National Governments and allow any Organisation, not being a part of the sued state, to sue National Governments for loss of earnings resulting from a change in government policy.
If BREXIT is about 'taking back control' choosing to use the International Court System and ISDRs is definitely not the way to achieve that. The basic ICS rules don't even require that British judges are even part of the make up.
At the end of the day the only possible outcome is the ECJ, something that does exactly the same thing as the ECJ or the much worse alternative of ICS. All of these alternatives require British acceptance of a court that has supremacy, jurisdiction and ultimately legally binding powers over the UK.
A rose is still a rose by what ever name you give it."
It's not just a name change being proposed though is it, it will be a fundamental change in the way the court is set up. Davis said the Jurisdiction of the European Court of justice will end once we leave the EU, and it's blindingly obvious to anyone with half a brain that will be the case once we leave. Any new Court (if it comes to it because the negotiations are still ongoing and it could still turn out British courts will rule on these things) will have an equal amount of British judges on it and an equal amount of EU judges on it (I think Davis said 4 British judges and 4 EU judges). This is a fundamental change to how the European Court of justice is set up now, Britain would have equal clout and ruling power in the new court as the EU would have. |
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"
Davis hasn't agreed to any final deal either, it is an ongoing negotiation so your claims of victory for the EU are premature and non existent. A worldwide international court of Arbitration already exits, I think It was Unleashed Kraken who mentioned it earlier in the thread. As we will be taking our seat back at the WTO after Brexit then the existing international court of arbitration could be the court that oversees any disputes. One thing is guaranteed that is the UK will not be over ruled by the European Court of justice anymore. That comes to an end after Brexit.
The International Court of Arbitration exists to resolve disputes between commercial entities. The Permanent Court of Arbitration can oversee disputes between trade. But heres the thing, arbitration and courts arent the same thing. They're different means of resolution. So you have one or the other and both Britain and the EU have favoured traditional courts over arbitration. So the permanent courts of arbitration are not likely to be either parties goal.
The ECJ is there to sit in judgement of the rules and laws of the 28 countries and made up of judges from those countries. It is above the courts of those 28 countries.
Instead of this Davis is proposing a court to sit in judgement of the rules and laws between Britain and the other 27 countries, made up of judges from the 28 countries and above the courts of those countries.
It will be the same judges drawn from the same pool as the ECJ, likely even sitting in the exact same courtrooms the ECJ does, making the same rulings on the agreements between the 27 countries and Britain. But it will have a different name. And the name will make all the difference in the world for you.
Same courts, same lawyers, same judges, same power to overrule the British courts. But a new name means victory for the Tories and Brexit!!
It's so ridiculous that Centaur is the only Brexiter willing to try and defend it. The other brexiters as staying well clear as the farce is so obvious! "
I think the others have grown tired of the never ending pedantic nit picking from bitter remoaners, who still appear to be in denial that the uk is actually leaving the EU. You really are going to have to come to terms with this because Brexit is happening whether you like it or not it cannot be stopped now. Many Brexiters feel their job is done, the referendum is won, the article 50 vote is won and the tories won the general election. You can sit there and bitch and moan and nit pick all you like it won't change a thing, in March 2019 we will still be out. |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"I think the others have grown tired of the never ending pedantic nit picking from bitter remoaners, who still appear to be in denial that the uk is actually leaving the EU. You really are going to have to come to terms with this because Brexit is happening whether you like it or not it cannot be stopped now. Many Brexiters feel their job is done, the referendum is won, the article 50 vote is won and the tories won the general election. You can sit there and bitch and moan and nit pick all you like it won't change a thing, in March 2019 we will still be out. "
Yes, in March 2019 we will be out. That we can agree on. The problem is, as you've said the leavers now think that the job is done. The job is only just beginning. And now they are finding out that the reality of what we are facing really isn't that palatable. All of the bits of the EU they didn't like and thought they were getting rid of, were either nothing to do with the EU (e.g. the ECHR), or necessary for the functioning of international relations and going to end up being replaced with something almost identical (e.g. ECJ). All the shit about passport colour, and deporting immigrants they are now finding out was bollocks. They are now realising that the £350M was just a pipe dream, and those nasty EU immigrants they so hate are actually a benefit to our country and currently necessary for the running of many of our services.
-Matt |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
" It's so ridiculous that Centaur is the only Brexiter willing to try and defend it. The other brexiters as staying well clear as the farce is so obvious!
The more things that are agreed in these negotiations the quieter Brexiteers will be. As we've seen since the referendum they dont want to face reality but now reality is hitting home. Soon there'll be no one trying to defend it as the EU runs roughshod over their dreams because Britain cant survive without the EU and the tories have entered into this so naively and incompetently and unprepared its actually made it even worse for their negotiating position.
If the Tories had demanded the details of a transitional arrangement be agreed before triggering article 50 (as they should) then they would be in a much stronger position to negotiate. Now theres a deadline thats coming fast and they have to agree a deal or lose everything."
I think saying "Britain can't survive without the EU" is a bit far fetched. I'm sure we will survive. The problem is I'd quite like us to not just survive, but to actually grow and prosper and Brexit will not and is not helping that.
-Matt |
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By *anesjhCouple
over a year ago
LONDON. |
" It's so ridiculous that Centaur is the only Brexiter willing to try and defend it. The other brexiters as staying well clear as the farce is so obvious!
The more things that are agreed in these negotiations the quieter Brexiteers will be. As we've seen since the referendum they dont want to face reality but now reality is hitting home. Soon there'll be no one trying to defend it as the EU runs roughshod over their dreams because Britain cant survive without the EU and the tories have entered into this so naively and incompetently and unprepared its actually made it even worse for their negotiating position.
If the Tories had demanded the details of a transitional arrangement be agreed before triggering article 50 (as they should) then they would be in a much stronger position to negotiate. Now theres a deadline thats coming fast and they have to agree a deal or lose everything.
I think saying "Britain can't survive without the EU" is a bit far fetched. I'm sure we will survive. The problem is I'd quite like us to not just survive, but to actually grow and prosper and Brexit will not and is not helping that.
-Matt"
...Give it time. |
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"
I think saying "Britain can't survive without the EU" is a bit far fetched. I'm sure we will survive. The problem is I'd quite like us to not just survive, but to actually grow and prosper and Brexit will not and is not helping that.
-Matt"
Depends how bad things get I guess. Northern Ireland or Scotland leaving would be the end of Britain as it is. And the steeper the economic downturn the more likely it is that one or both leave. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I think saying "Britain can't survive without the EU" is a bit far fetched. I'm sure we will survive. The problem is I'd quite like us to not just survive, but to actually grow and prosper and Brexit will not and is not helping that.
-Matt
Depends how bad things get I guess. Northern Ireland or Scotland leaving would be the end of Britain as it is. And the steeper the economic downturn the more likely it is that one or both leave."
And do what? |
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"
I think saying "Britain can't survive without the EU" is a bit far fetched. I'm sure we will survive. The problem is I'd quite like us to not just survive, but to actually grow and prosper and Brexit will not and is not helping that.
-Matt
Depends how bad things get I guess. Northern Ireland or Scotland leaving would be the end of Britain as it is. And the steeper the economic downturn the more likely it is that one or both leave.
And do what?"
The hokey pokey.
There are people in Scotland who want to be independent and people in Northern Ireland who want to join the Republic. Regardless if you agree its a good idea or if they're a majority right now, their numbers will increase IF being in the non EU Uk means a massive recession. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"
I think saying "Britain can't survive without the EU" is a bit far fetched. I'm sure we will survive. The problem is I'd quite like us to not just survive, but to actually grow and prosper and Brexit will not and is not helping that.
-Matt
Depends how bad things get I guess. Northern Ireland or Scotland leaving would be the end of Britain as it is. And the steeper the economic downturn the more likely it is that one or both leave.
And do what?"
Why do you have such a superiority attititude when it comes to the home nations?
If the UK (England) can choose the leave the EU m, why can't Scotland, Wales or N Ireland choose to leave the U.K.?
That attitude encapsulates entirely the entire problem that so many people have with Europe and the EU and indeed any foreign country. A complete disregard for any other country to be in any way as capable as the UK. Well guess what, there are plenty of independent countries that cut their cloth as they see fit and get on with life without the need of of a Morhership. Instead they negotiate trade deals and enter into economic stability agreements and such like with other like minded countries.
It is possible for N Ireland to join Ireland, Scotland and Wales in a loose republic of autonomous countries and as a bloc join the EU by virtue of Ireland's existing membership. Possible... not easy, or straightforward but a willingness to get on in life and stop being bullied and held back by arrogant English people who still think the sun doesn't set on their mighty Empire is a pre-requisite to making that happen.
The break up of the UK is on the cards, the genie is out of the bottle and it is only a matter of time that divergent paths mean that a conjoined future will be unsustainable. |
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"
I look forward to your u turn when the UK/EU court of arbitration is announced as having supremacy over British courts. Im sure you'll claim it was what you wanted all along and that it is a magnificent victory for Davis and May and the EU were made agree to it
So Centaur you got exactly what I predicted last week. A new arbitration body that will be over the British court system. As you said yourself this was something to be eliminated by Brexit and yet here we are.
By my count thats 3 losses out of 3 for the May/Davis negotiating team. You should let No. 10 know that these are exactly the sort of issues the EU is supposed to be caving on due to the strong hand the UK has to play because they dont seem to realise
You didn't predict it though. You do realise your earlier comments are still visible on the thread for all to see and read.
You predicted the EU courts would still have jurisdiction over British courts and it's clear now that isn't going to happen. An international court of arbitration is what is being suggested here so that is a world away from what you predicted. You called it wrong and it's clearly not 3 wins out of 3 for the EU. The uk is a member of Nato and I'm very happy with being part of international organisations such as Nato and the UN and the WTO (which we will soon re take our rightful place at to sign our own trade deals around the world). An international court of arbitration for things like trade is nothing new and works side by side with organisations like the WTO, good news as far as I can see and great news we are still heading for the EU exit door. The European Court of justice will have No authority over the UK once we leave, Zero, Zilch, Nada (which is what i predicted) I'm very happy about that.
I do know my previous comments are here,I quoted them in my last post. In fact I left it at the top of this post. An EU/UK court of arbitration is exactly what I said and you can see it there
An international court of arbitration is what is being suggested though, that goes much wider than the EU/UK court that you wrongly predicted. I suggest you go and look up the word international in the dictionary as you seem to be having trouble understanding what it means.
International: Between nations. Eg. There is a court of arbitration between the UK and the 27 countries that will remain in the EU, it is an international court.
International: Existing, occuring or carried on between nations.
Synonyms: Global, worldwide, intercontinental.
Eg, it goes much further than just the UK and the EU 27.
Why would other countries sign up to this new court? What part of the negotiation process is the one where America and China join in to discuss how this court will be set up?
You're clutching at straws Centaur. The court will be set up as part of these negotiations because the court is an essential part of the final deal for both sides. No ones going to sign up to it without knowing what its scope is, what its powers are and what its make up will be.
You've traded a court made up of judges from the UK and 27 other EU countries for a court with a new name made up of judges from the UK and 27 other EU countries.
Heres a post I wrote *last week*:
They will agree to international arbitration that is above British courts (ECJ or a specific court, doesnt particularly matter which since its just a rose with another name, but it will be above the British court system in these matters)...
Thats whats going to happen because thats what the EU wants. And the UK has no leverage. Instead of wasting time they should just agree instead of dragging this out in the hopes of getting something symbolic like a different name on the court that will be above the British courts. Because only an idiot would see that as any sort of victory.
So... are you claiming that this court of arbitration that rules over the British court that will draw judges from the same pool as the ECJ is a victory? Because this is where Davis has moved to currently, the EU hasnt agreed to it yet.
Davis hasn't agreed to any final deal either, it is an ongoing negotiation so your claims of victory for the EU are premature and non existent. A worldwide international court of Arbitration already exits, I think It was Unleashed Kraken who mentioned it earlier in the thread. As we will be taking our seat back at the WTO after Brexit then the existing international court of arbitration could be the court that oversees any disputes. One thing is guaranteed that is the UK will not be over ruled by the European Court of justice anymore. That comes to an end after Brexit.
The system I referred to was the ICS (International Court System) and the mechanism for trade disputes is via ISDR (Investor State Dispute Resolution) unless an alternative is agreed. The ECJ is part of the International Court System and has jurisdiction in the EU. There is also the EFTA CJ which has jurisdiction over the EU and EFTA members. Both courts base their rulings on EU Single Market law.
The other alternative is ISDRs but these in fact remove more sovereignty and control form National Governments and allow any Organisation, not being a part of the sued state, to sue National Governments for loss of earnings resulting from a change in government policy.
If BREXIT is about 'taking back control' choosing to use the International Court System and ISDRs is definitely not the way to achieve that. The basic ICS rules don't even require that British judges are even part of the make up.
At the end of the day the only possible outcome is the ECJ, something that does exactly the same thing as the ECJ or the much worse alternative of ICS. All of these alternatives require British acceptance of a court that has supremacy, jurisdiction and ultimately legally binding powers over the UK.
A rose is still a rose by what ever name you give it.
It's not just a name change being proposed though is it, it will be a fundamental change in the way the court is set up. Davis said the Jurisdiction of the European Court of justice will end once we leave the EU, and it's blindingly obvious to anyone with half a brain that will be the case once we leave. Any new Court (if it comes to it because the negotiations are still ongoing and it could still turn out British courts will rule on these things) will have an equal amount of British judges on it and an equal amount of EU judges on it (I think Davis said 4 British judges and 4 EU judges). This is a fundamental change to how the European Court of justice is set up now, Britain would have equal clout and ruling power in the new court as the EU would have. "
Even if you get that it's still a court with European Judges on it that will have jurisdiction, supremacy and legally binding power over the UK. I thought that was what BREXIYers didn't like about the ECJ or are you now saying that BREXITers don't really care about sovereignty and it's really just that the ECJ has the word Europe in it?
Whilst your suggestion of equal numbers of British and EU judges may be acceptable to Britain and the EU commission it properly won't be acceptable to many of the EU sovereign member states and so probably won't be formed in that way. Far more likely that each sovereign member state will want one of it's own judges on the court to defend their sovereign interest. |
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"
Davis hasn't agreed to any final deal either, it is an ongoing negotiation so your claims of victory for the EU are premature and non existent. A worldwide international court of Arbitration already exits, I think It was Unleashed Kraken who mentioned it earlier in the thread. As we will be taking our seat back at the WTO after Brexit then the existing international court of arbitration could be the court that oversees any disputes. One thing is guaranteed that is the UK will not be over ruled by the European Court of justice anymore. That comes to an end after Brexit.
The International Court of Arbitration exists to resolve disputes between commercial entities. The Permanent Court of Arbitration can oversee disputes between trade. But heres the thing, arbitration and courts arent the same thing. They're different means of resolution. So you have one or the other and both Britain and the EU have favoured traditional courts over arbitration. So the permanent courts of arbitration are not likely to be either parties goal.
The ECJ is there to sit in judgement of the rules and laws of the 28 countries and made up of judges from those countries. It is above the courts of those 28 countries.
Instead of this Davis is proposing a court to sit in judgement of the rules and laws between Britain and the other 27 countries, made up of judges from the 28 countries and above the courts of those countries.
It will be the same judges drawn from the same pool as the ECJ, likely even sitting in the exact same courtrooms the ECJ does, making the same rulings on the agreements between the 27 countries and Britain. But it will have a different name. And the name will make all the difference in the world for you.
Same courts, same lawyers, same judges, same power to overrule the British courts. But a new name means victory for the Tories and Brexit!!
It's so ridiculous that Centaur is the only Brexiter willing to try and defend it. The other brexiters as staying well clear as the farce is so obvious!
I think the others have grown tired of the never ending pedantic nit picking from bitter remoaners, who still appear to be in denial that the uk is actually leaving the EU. You really are going to have to come to terms with this because Brexit is happening whether you like it or not it cannot be stopped now. Many Brexiters feel their job is done, the referendum is won, the article 50 vote is won and the tories won the general election. You can sit there and bitch and moan and nit pick all you like it won't change a thing, in March 2019 we will still be out. "
I'm actually not convinced that we will actually leave in March 2019 and, even if we do it, will be in name only.
A rose is still a rose by any other name. |
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" It's so ridiculous that Centaur is the only Brexiter willing to try and defend it. The other brexiters as staying well clear as the farce is so obvious!
The more things that are agreed in these negotiations the quieter Brexiteers will be. As we've seen since the referendum they dont want to face reality but now reality is hitting home. Soon there'll be no one trying to defend it as the EU runs roughshod over their dreams because Britain cant survive without the EU and the tories have entered into this so naively and incompetently and unprepared its actually made it even worse for their negotiating position.
If the Tories had demanded the details of a transitional arrangement be agreed before triggering article 50 (as they should) then they would be in a much stronger position to negotiate. Now theres a deadline thats coming fast and they have to agree a deal or lose everything.
I think saying "Britain can't survive without the EU" is a bit far fetched. I'm sure we will survive. The problem is I'd quite like us to not just survive, but to actually grow and prosper and Brexit will not and is not helping that.
-Matt...
Give it time."
Why? |
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