FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Removal of offensive statutes
Removal of offensive statutes
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" The question was raised about the future of confederate statues and monuments , most of you here are repulsed by the idea of keeping them , fair enough that's your opinion , QUESTION My question to you now is are you equally repulsed by statues of slave traders and slavers and shippers who made there money from the trade of slaves the ones that were sold into slavery in the southern states , These to can be seen as racist oppressive people why would you dignify these with statutes or monuments , ????????" Frankly, couldn't give a fuck about statues no matter who it was and what they stood for. There's far more pressing issues around to worry about than fucking inanimate lumps of bronze, steel, marble ... take your pick. | |||
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"Why would anybody want to keep such statues? It seems crazy to me. If they clearly made their wealth or reputation through unsavoury racist means then of course get rid of them. If you go to Spain do you see lots of Francoist monuments, in Germany are there lots of Nazi statues? No. But we still know the history, just don't have to constantly celebrate it. If you are becoming annoyed, agitated or angered by the removal of racist statues then you must be either: a. A racist b. A pigeon " So why are people in the UK so reluctant to look at there own history and Seek the removal of as you say people who made there wealth or reputation through unsavory means , ??? It not rite to point fingers across at confederate states with one hand while with the other hand Clean the pigeon crap of statues at home ! | |||
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" The question was raised about the future of confederate statues and monuments , most of you here are repulsed by the idea of keeping them , fair enough that's your opinion , QUESTION My question to you now is are you equally repulsed by statues of slave traders and slavers and shippers who made there money from the trade of slaves the ones that were sold into slavery in the southern states , These to can be seen as racist oppressive people why would you dignify these with statutes or monuments , ????????" if so then so should statues of Washington and Jefferson. both had slaves and one even had children with slaves and even kept them in rotatation while in the city as they would be deemed free if there for a certain amount of time.gotta love the yanks and their understanding of history.slavery was used as a propaganda tool much like terrorism is used today.both sides used slaves but the south's economy was heavily reliant on farming and slaves so the best way to defeat them was condeming slavery for the purpose of a major advantage over them.the whole concept that goverments cared about black people back then is ridiculas. | |||
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"Op, instead of opening several threads on the same subject why not just answer the points raised on the previous one? almost looks like your ducking it.. " Ah now your the one that duck the hard questions how about you answer the question I posted here ?? I have updated the other one any way, so when you feel up to answering the question I posed in op come back to me | |||
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"Op, instead of opening several threads on the same subject why not just answer the points raised on the previous one? almost looks like your ducking it.. Ah now your the one that duck the hard questions how about you answer the question I posted here ?? I have updated the other one any way, so when you feel up to answering the question I posed in op come back to me " read my last post on the 2nd thread, nothing has changed in your inability to accept what other's have told you are the facts in this issue so that's my position.. | |||
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"The solution i believe is a "museum of racism ".I've been to the holocaust musuem in israel and its very moving . As it seems these statues can teach us much about history and slavery and brings out such devotion to them in some . So lets collect them up and give them a fitting place to educate. "Not a bad idea on what to do with them , But dodged the question asked , are you an advisor to a politician or something ?? | |||
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"The solution i believe is a "museum of racism ".I've been to the holocaust musuem in israel and its very moving . As it seems these statues can teach us much about history and slavery and brings out such devotion to them in some . So lets collect them up and give them a fitting place to educate.
Not a bad idea on what to do with them ,
But dodged the question asked , are you an advisor to a politician or something ??"I believe the colston hall will be changing its name.I would go further and remove his statue if thats what people want and put it into a musuem.I think there is an exibition dedicated to the history of the slave trade in Bristol. It might by an idea to have a musuem to the African holocaust and Atlantic slave trade somwhere here or the USA. | |||
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"Thank fuck there is one person here that can see reason , " that's to bobbangs | |||
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"Thank fuck there is one person here that can see reason , that's to bobbangs" didn't think you meant yourself..   | |||
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"But what ever happens to these statues, you still want the statue of General Lee to remain, right?" he got every right to stay put as long as Carson and the rest of his supporters stay in place if you think lee should be moved at least have the neck to say the slave traders and profiteers should go , | |||
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"But what ever happens to these statues, you still want the statue of General Lee to remain, right?he got every right to stay put as long as Carson and the rest of his supporters stay in place if you think lee should be moved at least have the neck to say the slave traders and profiteers should go , " Because you have decided that the issue at hand is slave trading, right? Not slave ownship, that couldn't work because you have already admitted that Lee had slaves, and kept them during the civil war. What if the issue was treason against the country? Lee took up arms against America, much like Bin Laden, don't see many statues of him about do we. Or Guy Fawkes he was a traitor to his country, he doesn't have as many statues as Lee does. | |||
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"But what ever happens to these statues, you still want the statue of General Lee to remain, right?he got every right to stay put as long as Carson and the rest of his supporters stay in place if you think lee should be moved at least have the neck to say the slave traders and profiteers should go , Because you have decided that the issue at hand is slave trading, right? Not slave ownship, that couldn't work because you have already admitted that Lee had slaves, and kept them during the civil war. What if the issue was treason against the country? Lee took up arms against America, much like Bin Laden, don't see many statues of him about do we. Or Guy Fawkes he was a traitor to his country, he doesn't have as many statues as Lee does." slave trade and ownership go hand in had can't have one with the other ,how about statutes of the people that signed the proclamation of independence in Ireland they took up arms agents the crown they ant counted as treasonous ! Are they ?? | |||
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"But what ever happens to these statues, you still want the statue of General Lee to remain, right?he got every right to stay put as long as Carson and the rest of his supporters stay in place if you think lee should be moved at least have the neck to say the slave traders and profiteers should go , Because you have decided that the issue at hand is slave trading, right? Not slave ownship, that couldn't work because you have already admitted that Lee had slaves, and kept them during the civil war. What if the issue was treason against the country? Lee took up arms against America, much like Bin Laden, don't see many statues of him about do we. Or Guy Fawkes he was a traitor to his country, he doesn't have as many statues as Lee does. slave trade and ownership go hand in had can't have one with the other ,how about statutes of the people that signed the proclamation of independence in Ireland they took up arms agents the crown they ant counted as treasonous ! Are they ?? " You said that Lee should stay, even though he was a slave owner. Would you be happy with statues of Bin Laden being erected across the US? | |||
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"But what ever happens to these statues, you still want the statue of General Lee to remain, right?he got every right to stay put as long as Carson and the rest of his supporters stay in place if you think lee should be moved at least have the neck to say the slave traders and profiteers should go , Because you have decided that the issue at hand is slave trading, right? Not slave ownship, that couldn't work because you have already admitted that Lee had slaves, and kept them during the civil war. What if the issue was treason against the country? Lee took up arms against America, much like Bin Laden, don't see many statues of him about do we. Or Guy Fawkes he was a traitor to his country, he doesn't have as many statues as Lee does. slave trade and ownership go hand in had can't have one with the other ,how about statutes of the people that signed the proclamation of independence in Ireland they took up arms agents the crown they ant counted as treasonous ! Are they ?? You said that Lee should stay, even though he was a slave owner. Would you be happy with statues of Bin Laden being erected across the US? " Bin Laden wasn't an american so who would put it up like I just said lee got every right to stay put as long as Carson and the rest of his supporters stay in place if you think lee should be moved at least have the neck to say the slave traders and profiteers should go , | |||
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"General Rommel has a statue in Germany. " He fucking doesn't. | |||
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"But what ever happens to these statues, you still want the statue of General Lee to remain, right?he got every right to stay put as long as Carson and the rest of his supporters stay in place if you think lee should be moved at least have the neck to say the slave traders and profiteers should go , Because you have decided that the issue at hand is slave trading, right? Not slave ownship, that couldn't work because you have already admitted that Lee had slaves, and kept them during the civil war. What if the issue was treason against the country? Lee took up arms against America, much like Bin Laden, don't see many statues of him about do we. Or Guy Fawkes he was a traitor to his country, he doesn't have as many statues as Lee does. slave trade and ownership go hand in had can't have one with the other ,how about statutes of the people that signed the proclamation of independence in Ireland they took up arms agents the crown they ant counted as treasonous ! Are they ?? You said that Lee should stay, even though he was a slave owner. Would you be happy with statues of Bin Laden being erected across the US? Bin Laden wasn't an american so who would put it up like I just said lee got every right to stay put as long as Carson and the rest of his supporters stay in place if you think lee should be moved at least have the neck to say the slave traders and profiteers should go , " So being an american is the only thing needed to warrant a statue then? How about Timothy McVeigh? He was an American, he attacked America. Would you want a statue of him? | |||
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"General Rommel has a statue in Germany. He fucking doesn't." Germany's memorial to Field Marshal Erwin Rommel is perched on a hillside overlooking the middle-class town of Heidenheim an der Brenz where he was born 120 years ago. Unless the intetnet is incorrect. The independent has an article on it. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/was-the-desert-fox-an-honest-soldier-or-just-another-nazi-6272076.html | |||
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" The question was raised about the future of confederate statues and monuments , most of you here are repulsed by the idea of keeping them , fair enough that's your opinion , QUESTION My question to you now is are you equally repulsed by statues of slave traders and slavers and shippers who made there money from the trade of slaves the ones that were sold into slavery in the southern states , These to can be seen as racist oppressive people why would you dignify these with statutes or monuments , ????????" There are symbols of the slave trade in Liverpool, on buildings. I personally would say they should stay as a reminder to inhumanity to not repeat it again. unless they portray a particular person. | |||
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" The question was raised about the future of confederate statues and monuments , most of you here are repulsed by the idea of keeping them , fair enough that's your opinion , QUESTION My question to you now is are you equally repulsed by statues of slave traders and slavers and shippers who made there money from the trade of slaves the ones that were sold into slavery in the southern states , These to can be seen as racist oppressive people why would you dignify these with statutes or monuments , ???????? There are symbols of the slave trade in Liverpool, on buildings. I personally would say they should stay as a reminder to inhumanity to not repeat it again. unless they portray a particular person. " fair enough then with the same sentiment you would agree to leave confederate states , and let them be seen by which ever side as a reminder of where a country has come from , | |||
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"General Rommel has a statue in Germany. He fucking doesn't. Germany's memorial to Field Marshal Erwin Rommel is perched on a hillside overlooking the middle-class town of Heidenheim an der Brenz where he was born 120 years ago. Unless the intetnet is incorrect. The independent has an article on it. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/was-the-desert-fox-an-honest-soldier-or-just-another-nazi-6272076.html" Ouch that will sting | |||
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"Clcc when ever you can answer a question and even pretend to be mature I'll get back to you "So I take it you would be happy for a statue of Timothy McVeigh then. You want to celebrate people who attacked America. You can have McVeigh, you can have Bin Laden, you can have Lee, you can have Yamamoto, the Tsarnaev brothers, these are the heroes that you hold up an idolise obviously. | |||
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"General Rommel has a statue in Germany. He fucking doesn't. Germany's memorial to Field Marshal Erwin Rommel is perched on a hillside overlooking the middle-class town of Heidenheim an der Brenz where he was born 120 years ago. Unless the intetnet is incorrect. The independent has an article on it. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/was-the-desert-fox-an-honest-soldier-or-just-another-nazi-6272076.html" Yes, there is a memorial to Rommel, das Rommel-Denkmal. If you look it up, it's a plain lump of rock, with his rank, DoB and the date he was made a field marshal. And an inscription. It's not a statue to Rommel. | |||
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"General Rommel has a statue in Germany. He fucking doesn't. Germany's memorial to Field Marshal Erwin Rommel is perched on a hillside overlooking the middle-class town of Heidenheim an der Brenz where he was born 120 years ago. Unless the intetnet is incorrect. The independent has an article on it. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/was-the-desert-fox-an-honest-soldier-or-just-another-nazi-6272076.html Ouch that will sting "Nope. | |||
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"Clcc when ever you can answer a question and even pretend to be mature I'll get back to you
So I take it you would be happy for a statue of Timothy McVeigh then. You want to celebrate people who attacked America. You can have McVeigh, you can have Bin Laden, you can have Lee, you can have Yamamoto, the Tsarnaev brothers, these are the heroes that you hold up an idolise obviously. "how about you try answer the question I posed in the op , you can't cause your afraid to look at the role ok British subjects in slavery it's easier for you to point fingers | |||
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"General Rommel has a statue in Germany. He fucking doesn't. Germany's memorial to Field Marshal Erwin Rommel is perched on a hillside overlooking the middle-class town of Heidenheim an der Brenz where he was born 120 years ago. Unless the intetnet is incorrect. The independent has an article on it. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/was-the-desert-fox-an-honest-soldier-or-just-another-nazi-6272076.html Ouch that will sting
Nope."so what's the plan then bring Rommel to the US or lee to Germany , or how about you leave them where they are | |||
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"General Rommel has a statue in Germany. He fucking doesn't. Germany's memorial to Field Marshal Erwin Rommel is perched on a hillside overlooking the middle-class town of Heidenheim an der Brenz where he was born 120 years ago. Unless the intetnet is incorrect. The independent has an article on it. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/was-the-desert-fox-an-honest-soldier-or-just-another-nazi-6272076.html Ouch that will sting
Nope. so what's the plan then bring Rommel to the US or lee to Germany , or how about you leave them where they are "What are you even talking about? | |||
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"General Rommel has a statue in Germany. He fucking doesn't. Germany's memorial to Field Marshal Erwin Rommel is perched on a hillside overlooking the middle-class town of Heidenheim an der Brenz where he was born 120 years ago. Unless the intetnet is incorrect. The independent has an article on it. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/was-the-desert-fox-an-honest-soldier-or-just-another-nazi-6272076.html Yes, there is a memorial to Rommel, das Rommel-Denkmal. If you look it up, it's a plain lump of rock, with his rank, DoB and the date he was made a field marshal. And an inscription. It's not a statue to Rommel." I stand corrected its not a statue.Its a memorial. | |||
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"Clcc when ever you can answer a question and even pretend to be mature I'll get back to you
So I take it you would be happy for a statue of Timothy McVeigh then. You want to celebrate people who attacked America. You can have McVeigh, you can have Bin Laden, you can have Lee, you can have Yamamoto, the Tsarnaev brothers, these are the heroes that you hold up an idolise obviously.
how about you try answer the question I posed in the op , you can't cause your afraid to look at the role ok British subjects in slavery it's easier for you to point fingers"Not me i think they should be removed.I think some Caribbean islands tried to sue Lloyds of London for their role in the slave trade. Very few company's exist from that time. They were unsuccessful in claiming reparations. I think if your family benefited from the slave trade you have a price to pay today. | |||
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"General Rommel has a statue in Germany. He fucking doesn't. Germany's memorial to Field Marshal Erwin Rommel is perched on a hillside overlooking the middle-class town of Heidenheim an der Brenz where he was born 120 years ago. Unless the intetnet is incorrect. The independent has an article on it. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/was-the-desert-fox-an-honest-soldier-or-just-another-nazi-6272076.html Ouch that will sting
Nope. so what's the plan then bring Rommel to the US or lee to Germany , or how about you leave them where they are
What are you even talking about?"you said and I quote you " the best company a Confederate general could keep is... Rommel's " So I said where should they be keep the US or Germany , But since then I being thinking how about they go in Colson hall in Bristol , | |||
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" The question was raised about the future of confederate statues and monuments , most of you here are repulsed by the idea of keeping them , fair enough that's your opinion , QUESTION My question to you now is are you equally repulsed by statues of slave traders and slavers and shippers who made there money from the trade of slaves the ones that were sold into slavery in the southern states , These to can be seen as racist oppressive people why would you dignify these with statutes or monuments , ???????? There are symbols of the slave trade in Liverpool, on buildings. I personally would say they should stay as a reminder to inhumanity to not repeat it again. unless they portray a particular person. " Several streets in Liverpool are named after those involved with the slave trade, the City also has in the maritime museum a section which has a reproduction of a part of a slave ship .. we were as kids in the 60's not taught about that part of the Cities history which i thought wrong personally.. | |||
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" The question was raised about the future of confederate statues and monuments , most of you here are repulsed by the idea of keeping them , fair enough that's your opinion , QUESTION My question to you now is are you equally repulsed by statues of slave traders and slavers and shippers who made there money from the trade of slaves the ones that were sold into slavery in the southern states , These to can be seen as racist oppressive people why would you dignify these with statutes or monuments , ???????? There are symbols of the slave trade in Liverpool, on buildings. I personally would say they should stay as a reminder to inhumanity to not repeat it again. unless they portray a particular person. Several streets in Liverpool are named after those involved with the slave trade, the City also has in the maritime museum a section which has a reproduction of a part of a slave ship .. we were as kids in the 60's not taught about that part of the Cities history which i thought wrong personally.." I agree with everything you have just said , now the fact people are screaming for the removal of confederate statues and monuments do you think it's time to look at the statutes that stand in the UK before we join the call on Americans to remove confederate statues ?? | |||
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" The question was raised about the future of confederate statues and monuments , most of you here are repulsed by the idea of keeping them , fair enough that's your opinion , QUESTION My question to you now is are you equally repulsed by statues of slave traders and slavers and shippers who made there money from the trade of slaves the ones that were sold into slavery in the southern states , These to can be seen as racist oppressive people why would you dignify these with statutes or monuments , ???????? There are symbols of the slave trade in Liverpool, on buildings. I personally would say they should stay as a reminder to inhumanity to not repeat it again. unless they portray a particular person. Several streets in Liverpool are named after those involved with the slave trade, the City also has in the maritime museum a section which has a reproduction of a part of a slave ship .. we were as kids in the 60's not taught about that part of the Cities history which i thought wrong personally.. I agree with everything you have just said , now the fact people are screaming for the removal of confederate statues and monuments do you think it's time to look at the statutes that stand in the UK before we join the call on Americans to remove confederate statues ?? " my opinions on such things have not changed since i stated them in the previous thread you started.. nor has my position that i have now said twice to you in debating what it is your tenuously clutching on to, and for the same reason.. | |||
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" The question was raised about the future of confederate statues and monuments , most of you here are repulsed by the idea of keeping them , fair enough that's your opinion , QUESTION My question to you now is are you equally repulsed by statues of slave traders and slavers and shippers who made there money from the trade of slaves the ones that were sold into slavery in the southern states , These to can be seen as racist oppressive people why would you dignify these with statutes or monuments , ???????? There are symbols of the slave trade in Liverpool, on buildings. I personally would say they should stay as a reminder to inhumanity to not repeat it again. unless they portray a particular person. Several streets in Liverpool are named after those involved with the slave trade, the City also has in the maritime museum a section which has a reproduction of a part of a slave ship .. we were as kids in the 60's not taught about that part of the Cities history which i thought wrong personally.. I agree with everything you have just said , now the fact people are screaming for the removal of confederate statues and monuments do you think it's time to look at the statutes that stand in the UK before we join the call on Americans to remove confederate statues ?? my opinions on such things have not changed since i stated them in the previous thread you started.. nor has my position that i have now said twice to you in debating what it is your tenuously clutching on to, and for the same reason.." Well if YOU are prepared to leave such statutes in the UK then I can't see how you can justify looking for America to take down what's there , | |||
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" The question was raised about the future of confederate statues and monuments , most of you here are repulsed by the idea of keeping them , fair enough that's your opinion , QUESTION My question to you now is are you equally repulsed by statues of slave traders and slavers and shippers who made there money from the trade of slaves the ones that were sold into slavery in the southern states , These to can be seen as racist oppressive people why would you dignify these with statutes or monuments , ???????? There are symbols of the slave trade in Liverpool, on buildings. I personally would say they should stay as a reminder to inhumanity to not repeat it again. unless they portray a particular person. Several streets in Liverpool are named after those involved with the slave trade, the City also has in the maritime museum a section which has a reproduction of a part of a slave ship .. we were as kids in the 60's not taught about that part of the Cities history which i thought wrong personally.. I agree with everything you have just said , now the fact people are screaming for the removal of confederate statues and monuments do you think it's time to look at the statutes that stand in the UK before we join the call on Americans to remove confederate statues ?? my opinions on such things have not changed since i stated them in the previous thread you started.. nor has my position that i have now said twice to you in debating what it is your tenuously clutching on to, and for the same reason.. Well if YOU are prepared to leave such statutes in the UK then I can't see how you can justify looking for America to take down what's there , " well that doesn't surprise me at all that you would jump to the wrong conclusion..   | |||
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" The question was raised about the future of confederate statues and monuments , most of you here are repulsed by the idea of keeping them , fair enough that's your opinion , QUESTION My question to you now is are you equally repulsed by statues of slave traders and slavers and shippers who made there money from the trade of slaves the ones that were sold into slavery in the southern states , These to can be seen as racist oppressive people why would you dignify these with statutes or monuments , ???????? There are symbols of the slave trade in Liverpool, on buildings. I personally would say they should stay as a reminder to inhumanity to not repeat it again. unless they portray a particular person. Several streets in Liverpool are named after those involved with the slave trade, the City also has in the maritime museum a section which has a reproduction of a part of a slave ship .. we were as kids in the 60's not taught about that part of the Cities history which i thought wrong personally.. I agree with everything you have just said , now the fact people are screaming for the removal of confederate statues and monuments do you think it's time to look at the statutes that stand in the UK before we join the call on Americans to remove confederate statues ?? my opinions on such things have not changed since i stated them in the previous thread you started.. nor has my position that i have now said twice to you in debating what it is your tenuously clutching on to, and for the same reason.. Well if YOU are prepared to leave such statutes in the UK then I can't see how you can justify looking for America to take down what's there , well that doesn't surprise me at all that you would jump to the wrong conclusion.. "It's not the wrong conclusion , in your book racism is only racism if it's carried out by someone that's not British , | |||
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"Clcc when ever you can answer a question and even pretend to be mature I'll get back to you
So I take it you would be happy for a statue of Timothy McVeigh then. You want to celebrate people who attacked America. You can have McVeigh, you can have Bin Laden, you can have Lee, you can have Yamamoto, the Tsarnaev brothers, these are the heroes that you hold up an idolise obviously.
how about you try answer the question I posed in the op , you can't cause your afraid to look at the role ok British subjects in slavery it's easier for you to point fingers"I'm interested as to why want to down all the statues of people who owned or trade in slaves, all except one person. Why do you have such a hard-on for Lee? | |||
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"General Rommel has a statue in Germany. He fucking doesn't. Germany's memorial to Field Marshal Erwin Rommel is perched on a hillside overlooking the middle-class town of Heidenheim an der Brenz where he was born 120 years ago. Unless the intetnet is incorrect. The independent has an article on it. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/was-the-desert-fox-an-honest-soldier-or-just-another-nazi-6272076.html Ouch that will sting
Nope. so what's the plan then bring Rommel to the US or lee to Germany , or how about you leave them where they are
What are you even talking about?
you said and I quote you " the best company a Confederate general could keep is... Rommel's " So I said where should they be keep the US or Germany ,
But since then I being thinking how about they go in Colson hall in Bristol , "You do know what the phrase "keeping company" means, right? | |||
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"Statues are there because these are the people that made Britain what it is today. They lived in there time,they are part of the nation,every great nation that has advanced the world since the beginning of time used slaves. The rich employ people on low wages,many of us work long hours to make ends meet,it is a form of modern slavery. Get real it is life and if we take down there statues,change street names etc we are covering up history which is really bad. If we take them from history,there form of slavery will return because there will be no evidence to say it is wrong,we should never deny the past we should learn from it" People who are worried that by removing street named after slavers and statues of the same that history will be forgotten will be happy to learn of these things called books. | |||
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"You don't want to see salve traders and slavers removed cause it's another blow to the so called British empire , That was built on slavery So why take down lee he wasn't any worse than the rest , " that's for _lcc | |||
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"Statues are there because these are the people that made Britain what it is today. They lived in there time,they are part of the nation,every great nation that has advanced the world since the beginning of time used slaves. The rich employ people on low wages,many of us work long hours to make ends meet,it is a form of modern slavery. Get real it is life and if we take down there statues,change street names etc we are covering up history which is really bad. If we take them from history,there form of slavery will return because there will be no evidence to say it is wrong,we should never deny the past we should learn from it" Confederate statutes included ? If so I agree , | |||
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"Statues are there because these are the people that made Britain what it is today. They lived in there time,they are part of the nation,every great nation that has advanced the world since the beginning of time used slaves. The rich employ people on low wages,many of us work long hours to make ends meet,it is a form of modern slavery. Get real it is life and if we take down there statues,change street names etc we are covering up history which is really bad. If we take them from history,there form of slavery will return because there will be no evidence to say it is wrong,we should never deny the past we should learn from it People who are worried that by removing street named after slavers and statues of the same that history will be forgotten will be happy to learn of these things called books." Fuck me so you agree to take town statutes of slavers an traders ????? | |||
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"You don't want to see salve traders and slavers removed cause it's another blow to the so called British empire , That was built on slavery So why take down lee he wasn't any worse than the rest , " The British empire was built on wool actually, that's why the queen sits on a throne filled with wool from sheep from every commonwealth country. Lee wasn't worse than the rest? Who are you calling the rest? All of the traitorous confederates? | |||
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"Statues are there because these are the people that made Britain what it is today. They lived in there time,they are part of the nation,every great nation that has advanced the world since the beginning of time used slaves. The rich employ people on low wages,many of us work long hours to make ends meet,it is a form of modern slavery. Get real it is life and if we take down there statues,change street names etc we are covering up history which is really bad. If we take them from history,there form of slavery will return because there will be no evidence to say it is wrong,we should never deny the past we should learn from it People who are worried that by removing street named after slavers and statues of the same that history will be forgotten will be happy to learn of these things called books. Fuck me so you agree to take town statutes of slavers an traders ?????" I've told you time and time again what my position is. I do not agree with you. | |||
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"Statues are there because these are the people that made Britain what it is today. They lived in there time,they are part of the nation,every great nation that has advanced the world since the beginning of time used slaves. The rich employ people on low wages,many of us work long hours to make ends meet,it is a form of modern slavery. Get real it is life and if we take down there statues,change street names etc we are covering up history which is really bad. If we take them from history,there form of slavery will return because there will be no evidence to say it is wrong,we should never deny the past we should learn from it People who are worried that by removing street named after slavers and statues of the same that history will be forgotten will be happy to learn of these things called books. Fuck me so you agree to take town statutes of slavers an traders ????? I've told you time and time again what my position is. I do not agree with you." Do you know who agrees with the OP? The people waving swastikas and running over people with their car. | |||
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"You don't want to see salve traders and slavers removed cause it's another blow to the so called British empire , That was built on slavery So why take down lee he wasn't any worse than the rest , The British empire was built on wool actually, that's why the queen sits on a throne filled with wool from sheep from every commonwealth country. Lee wasn't worse than the rest? Who are you calling the rest? All of the traitorous confederates? " and what about the US colonies , what came from there ? Built on wool sheared of sheep by who ? The queen | |||
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"You don't want to see salve traders and slavers removed cause it's another blow to the so called British empire , That was built on slavery So why take down lee he wasn't any worse than the rest , The British empire was built on wool actually, that's why the queen sits on a throne filled with wool from sheep from every commonwealth country. Lee wasn't worse than the rest? Who are you calling the rest? All of the traitorous confederates? and what about the US colonies , what came from there ? Built on wool sheared of sheep by who ? The queen " I would of thought it was built on trade and exploitation and the riches from India and china and the spice trade and of course sugar from the carribean and America. | |||
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"You don't want to see salve traders and slavers removed cause it's another blow to the so called British empire , That was built on slavery So why take down lee he wasn't any worse than the rest , The British empire was built on wool actually, that's why the queen sits on a throne filled with wool from sheep from every commonwealth country. Lee wasn't worse than the rest? Who are you calling the rest? All of the traitorous confederates? and what about the US colonies , what came from there ? Built on wool sheared of sheep by who ? The queen " I don't know why you would chose to celebrate an enemy of the united states. Only you know why you like Lee so much, and I doubt you are going to tell is, so we just have to read between the lines. | |||
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"You don't want to see salve traders and slavers removed cause it's another blow to the so called British empire , That was built on slavery So why take down lee he wasn't any worse than the rest , The British empire was built on wool actually, that's why the queen sits on a throne filled with wool from sheep from every commonwealth country. Lee wasn't worse than the rest? Who are you calling the rest? All of the traitorous confederates? and what about the US colonies , what came from there ? Built on wool sheared of sheep by who ? The queen I don't know why you would chose to celebrate an enemy of the united states. Only you know why you like Lee so much, and I doubt you are going to tell is, so we just have to read between the lines. " Why are you not condemn the slave traders and slavers ??? | |||
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"All this rhetoric is pointless. General Lee is as guilty as the London trader who filled the ships with slaves and made buckets of money and built huge mansions in the countryside. They are all complicit.They only difference is he fought a war, that if he had won would of kept Africans in chains.He doesn't deserve to be honoured but he should be remembered. " colson had to throw 20,000 bodies of people that died on his boats over board , 20,000 that's a lot of people , ok lee went to war was a great General but he didn't go to war on his own so to place the whole civil war on his shoulders is going a bit over board , | |||
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" The question was raised about the future of confederate statues and monuments , most of you here are repulsed by the idea of keeping them , fair enough that's your opinion , QUESTION My question to you now is are you equally repulsed by statues of slave traders and slavers and shippers who made there money from the trade of slaves the ones that were sold into slavery in the southern states , These to can be seen as racist oppressive people why would you dignify these with statutes or monuments , ???????? There are symbols of the slave trade in Liverpool, on buildings. I personally would say they should stay as a reminder to inhumanity to not repeat it again. unless they portray a particular person. Several streets in Liverpool are named after those involved with the slave trade, the City also has in the maritime museum a section which has a reproduction of a part of a slave ship .. we were as kids in the 60's not taught about that part of the Cities history which i thought wrong personally.. I agree with everything you have just said , now the fact people are screaming for the removal of confederate statues and monuments do you think it's time to look at the statutes that stand in the UK before we join the call on Americans to remove confederate statues ?? my opinions on such things have not changed since i stated them in the previous thread you started.. nor has my position that i have now said twice to you in debating what it is your tenuously clutching on to, and for the same reason.. Well if YOU are prepared to leave such statutes in the UK then I can't see how you can justify looking for America to take down what's there , well that doesn't surprise me at all that you would jump to the wrong conclusion..
It's not the wrong conclusion , in your book racism is only racism if it's carried out by someone that's not British , "what the actual fuck are you babbling on about? listen lightning i have never said that because guess what.. its not something i think.. stop with the making shit up, its not big nor clever.. | |||
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"All this rhetoric is pointless. General Lee is as guilty as the London trader who filled the ships with slaves and made buckets of money and built huge mansions in the countryside. They are all complicit.They only difference is he fought a war, that if he had won would of kept Africans in chains.He doesn't deserve to be honoured but he should be remembered. colson had to throw 20,000 bodies of people that died on his boats over board , 20,000 that's a lot of people , ok lee went to war was a great General but he didn't go to war on his own so to place the whole civil war on his shoulders is going a bit over board , " You dont have to persuade me.Did you know sharks followed the slave ships. | |||
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"And look at post war lee look what he did after , He went and tried to rebuild the country he too over as president of a collage that was in difficulty increasing enrolment drastically and in a fund raising efforts to keep it open He wrote to the trustees that he believed, "it is the duty of every citizen, in the present condition of the Country, to do all in his power to aid in the restoration of peace and harmony."" He also believed slavery was bad for the white man and good for the African.As they needed discipline in his mind.He killed or enslaved free black soldiers he came across in battle when they wanted to surrender.You can't paint this in a good light.He was permissive in allowing his soldiers doing this. | |||
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"And look at post war lee look what he did after" Let's not, because that's not why the statues were erected in the first place, and that's not why some people want them kept now. | |||
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"Without in any way suggesting we are all a bit miopic, slavery was endemic across all cultures until the 19th century. Indeed Arab nations were pretty advanced at sourcing African slaves for anyone who wanted to take people to the West Indies or America, as were tribes who defeated their opponents and chose to sell them on. Is it right, NO, was it right, NO, but it is not as simple as blaming a few statues! Slavery still exists, our efforts should be in banishing it, not getting tied up in knots about issues from 100+ years ago. NO society is devoid of massive failures in its own moral standards. Let he who hath not sinned cast the first stone, etc!" | |||
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"All this rhetoric is pointless. General Lee is as guilty as the London trader who filled the ships with slaves and made buckets of money and built huge mansions in the countryside. They are all complicit.They only difference is he fought a war, that if he had won would of kept Africans in chains.He doesn't deserve to be honoured but he should be remembered. colson had to throw 20,000 bodies of people that died on his boats over board , 20,000 that's a lot of people , ok lee went to war was a great General but he didn't go to war on his own so to place the whole civil war on his shoulders is going a bit over board , " How many Americans did Lee kill? | |||
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"I fear you miss the point. It is people that are the issue, not the statues, removing every statue in the world that someone objected to would change the world not one iota. Educating people & ensuring that we understand the holocaust, WW1, Stalin's pogrom's, Mao's 're-education', Pol Pot, to name but sadly only a few would be more helpful..." . Yeah let's start with the pogroms being brought in under the tzar and not Stalin... Lets at least be straight, the pogroms were the capitalists idea not the Communists  | |||
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"All this rhetoric is pointless. General Lee is as guilty as the London trader who filled the ships with slaves and made buckets of money and built huge mansions in the countryside. They are all complicit.They only difference is he fought a war, that if he had won would of kept Africans in chains.He doesn't deserve to be honoured but he should be remembered. colson had to throw 20,000 bodies of people that died on his boats over board , 20,000 that's a lot of people , ok lee went to war was a great General but he didn't go to war on his own so to place the whole civil war on his shoulders is going a bit over board , How many Americans did Lee kill? " . Less than grant.... That's why he lost | |||
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"I fear you miss the point. It is people that are the issue, not the statues, removing every statue in the world that someone objected to would change the world not one iota. Educating people & ensuring that we understand the holocaust, WW1, Stalin's pogrom's, Mao's 're-education', Pol Pot, to name but sadly only a few would be more helpful.... Yeah let's start with the pogroms being brought in under the tzar and not Stalin... Lets at least be straight, the pogroms were the capitalists idea not the Communists "...so it was ok to continue them & move them from amateur to professional level!? This isn't about defending or attacking an 'ism', people are the problem, any situation where one person or a small cabal have power leads to suffering & death... | |||
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"I fear you miss the point. It is people that are the issue, not the statues, removing every statue in the world that someone objected to would change the world not one iota. Educating people & ensuring that we understand the holocaust, WW1, Stalin's pogrom's, Mao's 're-education', Pol Pot, to name but sadly only a few would be more helpful.... Yeah let's start with the pogroms being brought in under the tzar and not Stalin... Lets at least be straight, the pogroms were the capitalists idea not the Communists
...so it was ok to continue them & move them from amateur to professional level!? This isn't about defending or attacking an 'ism', people are the problem, any situation where one person or a small cabal have power leads to suffering & death...". They didn't continue them, Lenin lead several anti-Semitic campaigns | |||
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"I fear you miss the point. It is people that are the issue, not the statues, removing every statue in the world that someone objected to would change the world not one iota. Educating people & ensuring that we understand the holocaust, WW1, Stalin's pogrom's, Mao's 're-education', Pol Pot, to name but sadly only a few would be more helpful..." Yeah. No shit. They're not magical statues spewing their hate rays and turning normal chinless white guys with no redeeming characteristics into Nazis. BUT The statues ought not to be ignored because their presence has meaning, and that makes them as much a part of the problem as the people. They were put up because the people who did so wanted to remind the people of the then civil rights movement that as far as they were concerned they were still inferior. And they're coming down because what they represent is no longer tolerated by most of society. And a woman is dead because some people value the message that statue represents higher than other peoples lives. Symbols have power. Pretending otherwise is dumb. | |||
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"Sorry dude, you are re-writing history! Lenin tried but was destroyed by Staln - Stalin was never anything other than a dictator, at least in the same space as Hitler..." . You've moved the goalposts now .
I pulled you up on "Stalin's pogroms".
The pogroms were the Russian empire under the tzar (her madgs family) | |||
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"It looks like the will be taken down , I totally disagree with it , but me disagreeing won't stop it happening , But what do the people that want them down expect to gain ? Peace , unity , understanding ,acceptance of different cultures , Or will it lead to violence , hate , intolerance , a white community feeling sidelined , " Am I supposed to feel bad for Nazis feeling sidelined? Fuck them. | |||
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"All this rhetoric is pointless. General Lee is as guilty as the London trader who filled the ships with slaves and made buckets of money and built huge mansions in the countryside. They are all complicit.They only difference is he fought a war, that if he had won would of kept Africans in chains.He doesn't deserve to be honoured but he should be remembered. colson had to throw 20,000 bodies of people that died on his boats over board , 20,000 that's a lot of people , ok lee went to war was a great General but he didn't go to war on his own so to place the whole civil war on his shoulders is going a bit over board , How many Americans did Lee kill? " But what do the people that want them down expect to gain ? Peace , unity , understanding ,acceptance of different cultures , Or will it lead to violence , hate , intolerance , a white community feeling sidelined , | |||
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"So Stalin becoming a professional at runnng them isn't worth a comment...?" . No theres lots of things you could pull Stalin up on... Pogroms ain't one of them though  | |||
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"Sorry dude, you are re-writing history! Lenin tried but was destroyed by Staln - Stalin was never anything other than a dictator, at least in the same space as Hitler.... You've moved the goalposts now .
I pulled you up on "Stalin's pogroms".
The pogroms were the Russian empire under the tzar (her madgs family) "& as you live in Anglesey, you will understand the need to remove all Roman statues given what they did to the druids..l | |||
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"So Stalin becoming a professional at runnng them isn't worth a comment...?. No theres lots of things you could pull Stalin up on... Pogroms ain't one of them though "Wtf!? | |||
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"All this rhetoric is pointless. General Lee is as guilty as the London trader who filled the ships with slaves and made buckets of money and built huge mansions in the countryside. They are all complicit.They only difference is he fought a war, that if he had won would of kept Africans in chains.He doesn't deserve to be honoured but he should be remembered. colson had to throw 20,000 bodies of people that died on his boats over board , 20,000 that's a lot of people , ok lee went to war was a great General but he didn't go to war on his own so to place the whole civil war on his shoulders is going a bit over board , How many Americans did Lee kill? . Less than grant.... That's why he lost "Grant killed traitors against the US, Lee killed people defending the US constitution. | |||
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Nobody committed to a cause goes to a rally not "tooled up"... From either side.
If general Lee taught us anything, its that you can't solve political differences with weapons and fighting. | |||
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"All this rhetoric is pointless. General Lee is as guilty as the London trader who filled the ships with slaves and made buckets of money and built huge mansions in the countryside. They are all complicit.They only difference is he fought a war, that if he had won would of kept Africans in chains.He doesn't deserve to be honoured but he should be remembered. colson had to throw 20,000 bodies of people that died on his boats over board , 20,000 that's a lot of people , ok lee went to war was a great General but he didn't go to war on his own so to place the whole civil war on his shoulders is going a bit over board , How many Americans did Lee kill? . Less than grant.... That's why he lost
Grant killed traitors against the US, Lee killed people defending the US constitution. ". What... Without due process. I suggest you read the Constitution before bullshiting about it | |||
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"To be honest this whole thread is ridiculous... We could have ended it in 10 posts Are Nazis bad... Yes Are antifa bad.... Yes Is trump a dick... Yes . Speaking from experience ..
Nobody committed to a cause goes to a rally not "tooled up"... From either side.
If general Lee taught us anything, its that you can't solve political differences with weapons and fighting."...the truth is never ridiculous, it is the saviour of the weak to throw stupid comments. Use facts, respond to questions with answers & you might get some credibility... | |||
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"Sorry dude, you are re-writing history! Lenin tried but was destroyed by Staln - Stalin was never anything other than a dictator, at least in the same space as Hitler.... You've moved the goalposts now .
I pulled you up on "Stalin's pogroms".
The pogroms were the Russian empire under the tzar (her madgs family)
& as you live in Anglesey, you will understand the need to remove all Roman statues given what they did to the druids..l ". Crucifixion?.... Very nice, one cross each line on the left | |||
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"Are antifa bad - nope. " . Your opinion and your entitled to it and to hold a permitted rally on it. | |||
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"All this rhetoric is pointless. General Lee is as guilty as the London trader who filled the ships with slaves and made buckets of money and built huge mansions in the countryside. They are all complicit.They only difference is he fought a war, that if he had won would of kept Africans in chains.He doesn't deserve to be honoured but he should be remembered. colson had to throw 20,000 bodies of people that died on his boats over board , 20,000 that's a lot of people , ok lee went to war was a great General but he didn't go to war on his own so to place the whole civil war on his shoulders is going a bit over board , How many Americans did Lee kill? . Less than grant.... That's why he lost
Grant killed traitors against the US, Lee killed people defending the US constitution. .
What... Without due process.
I suggest you read the Constitution before bullshiting about it "They were attacking the US. When the Japanese attacked the US, and then US troops killed Japanese troops, was that with due process?  | |||
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"All this rhetoric is pointless. General Lee is as guilty as the London trader who filled the ships with slaves and made buckets of money and built huge mansions in the countryside. They are all complicit.They only difference is he fought a war, that if he had won would of kept Africans in chains.He doesn't deserve to be honoured but he should be remembered. colson had to throw 20,000 bodies of people that died on his boats over board , 20,000 that's a lot of people , ok lee went to war was a great General but he didn't go to war on his own so to place the whole civil war on his shoulders is going a bit over board , How many Americans did Lee kill? . Less than grant.... That's why he lost
Grant killed traitors against the US, Lee killed people defending the US constitution. .
What... Without due process.
I suggest you read the Constitution before bullshiting about it
They were attacking the US. When the Japanese attacked the US, and then US troops killed Japanese troops, was that with due process? ". Your a smart guy, do I really need to point out the difference in what the Constitution says about foreigners and American citizens... Now if you'd said interning Japanese Americans during ww2 ... | |||
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"All this rhetoric is pointless. General Lee is as guilty as the London trader who filled the ships with slaves and made buckets of money and built huge mansions in the countryside. They are all complicit.They only difference is he fought a war, that if he had won would of kept Africans in chains.He doesn't deserve to be honoured but he should be remembered. colson had to throw 20,000 bodies of people that died on his boats over board , 20,000 that's a lot of people , ok lee went to war was a great General but he didn't go to war on his own so to place the whole civil war on his shoulders is going a bit over board , How many Americans did Lee kill? . Less than grant.... That's why he lost
Grant killed traitors against the US, Lee killed people defending the US constitution. .
What... Without due process.
I suggest you read the Constitution before bullshiting about it
They were attacking the US. When the Japanese attacked the US, and then US troops killed Japanese troops, was that with due process? .
Your a smart guy, do I really need to point out the difference in what the Constitution says about foreigners and American citizens... Now if you'd said interning Japanese Americans during ww2 ...
"...how are the druids doing? | |||
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"All this rhetoric is pointless. General Lee is as guilty as the London trader who filled the ships with slaves and made buckets of money and built huge mansions in the countryside. They are all complicit.They only difference is he fought a war, that if he had won would of kept Africans in chains.He doesn't deserve to be honoured but he should be remembered. colson had to throw 20,000 bodies of people that died on his boats over board , 20,000 that's a lot of people , ok lee went to war was a great General but he didn't go to war on his own so to place the whole civil war on his shoulders is going a bit over board , How many Americans did Lee kill? . Less than grant.... That's why he lost
Grant killed traitors against the US, Lee killed people defending the US constitution. .
What... Without due process.
I suggest you read the Constitution before bullshiting about it
They were attacking the US. When the Japanese attacked the US, and then US troops killed Japanese troops, was that with due process? .
Your a smart guy, do I really need to point out the difference in what the Constitution says about foreigners and American citizens... Now if you'd said interning Japanese Americans during ww2 ...
"That applies to to drone strikes too? | |||
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"It looks like the will be taken down , I totally disagree with it , but me disagreeing won't stop it happening , But what do the people that want them down expect to gain ? Peace , unity , understanding ,acceptance of different cultures , Or will it lead to violence , hate , intolerance , a white community feeling sidelined , Am I supposed to feel bad for Nazis feeling sidelined? Fuck them." You think the only people that this ant sitting well is Nazis , I can see how you think that . That's what you see on the telly , It's being 4 months since I was there and even then I could see a difference in people's attitudes since June last year , and I don't mean in skin heads I mean in people that have parents and grand parents that fought in world war 2 They hate Nazis more than you do , These are people that live in quite communitys in northern Louisiana , normal topics in the local would be work football the normal crap , but now the removal of our past our history they are seeing it as there history being desecrated , yes they are white yes they ant upper class people they struggle to pay the bills , they are normal people , I wouldn't count them kkk material but I would say the would turn a blind eye , these are the ones I see starting to become intolerant towards African Americans , silly things car pulled across the road in front of us and the man driving me know him 15 year never heard him say anything remotely racist , comes out with fucking N , when I said chill out , I got what to fuck do they expect , These are the people I afraid will instead of turning a blind eye to the kkk will be joining up , | |||
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"It looks like the will be taken down , I totally disagree with it , but me disagreeing won't stop it happening , But what do the people that want them down expect to gain ? Peace , unity , understanding ,acceptance of different cultures , Or will it lead to violence , hate , intolerance , a white community feeling sidelined , Am I supposed to feel bad for Nazis feeling sidelined? Fuck them. You think the only people that this ant sitting well is Nazis , I can see how you think that . That's what you see on the telly , It's being 4 months since I was there and even then I could see a difference in people's attitudes since June last year , and I don't mean in skin heads I mean in people that have parents and grand parents that fought in world war 2 They hate Nazis more than you do , These are people that live in quite communitys in northern Louisiana , normal topics in the local would be work football the normal crap , but now the removal of our past our history they are seeing it as there history being desecrated , yes they are white yes they ant upper class people they struggle to pay the bills , they are normal people , I wouldn't count them kkk material but I would say the would turn a blind eye , these are the ones I see starting to become intolerant towards African Americans , silly things car pulled across the road in front of us and the man driving me know him 15 year never heard him say anything remotely racist , comes out with fucking N , when I said chill out , I got what to fuck do they expect , These are the people I afraid will instead of turning a blind eye to the kkk will be joining up , " So you're saying that the people who want to keep Lee's statue call people ni$$er, and you think they might be joining the KKK. That's what many people have been saying over the course of 3 threads. | |||
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"All this rhetoric is pointless. General Lee is as guilty as the London trader who filled the ships with slaves and made buckets of money and built huge mansions in the countryside. They are all complicit.They only difference is he fought a war, that if he had won would of kept Africans in chains.He doesn't deserve to be honoured but he should be remembered. colson had to throw 20,000 bodies of people that died on his boats over board , 20,000 that's a lot of people , ok lee went to war was a great General but he didn't go to war on his own so to place the whole civil war on his shoulders is going a bit over board , How many Americans did Lee kill? . Less than grant.... That's why he lost
Grant killed traitors against the US, Lee killed people defending the US constitution. .
What... Without due process.
I suggest you read the Constitution before bullshiting about it
They were attacking the US. When the Japanese attacked the US, and then US troops killed Japanese troops, was that with due process? .
Your a smart guy, do I really need to point out the difference in what the Constitution says about foreigners and American citizens... Now if you'd said interning Japanese Americans during ww2 ...
That applies to to drone strikes too?". I think it should apply to American citizens equally without prejudice of colour or creed or religion or wether your in America or not!. Let's get one thing straight, I don't like most people, Nazis especially... No system is perfect but I quite like the united states Constitution and I think Nazis have a right to protest and so does the KKK.... That doesn't mean we have to listen to them, or broadcast them on TV, it doesn't mean they have a right to put up statues with tax payer money either!. | |||
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"It looks like the will be taken down , I totally disagree with it , but me disagreeing won't stop it happening , But what do the people that want them down expect to gain ? Peace , unity , understanding ,acceptance of different cultures , Or will it lead to violence , hate , intolerance , a white community feeling sidelined , Am I supposed to feel bad for Nazis feeling sidelined? Fuck them. You think the only people that this ant sitting well is Nazis , I can see how you think that . That's what you see on the telly , It's being 4 months since I was there and even then I could see a difference in people's attitudes since June last year , and I don't mean in skin heads I mean in people that have parents and grand parents that fought in world war 2 They hate Nazis more than you do , These are people that live in quite communitys in northern Louisiana , normal topics in the local would be work football the normal crap , but now the removal of our past our history they are seeing it as there history being desecrated , yes they are white yes they ant upper class people they struggle to pay the bills , they are normal people , I wouldn't count them kkk material but I would say the would turn a blind eye , these are the ones I see starting to become intolerant towards African Americans , silly things car pulled across the road in front of us and the man driving me know him 15 year never heard him say anything remotely racist , comes out with fucking N , when I said chill out , I got what to fuck do they expect , These are the people I afraid will instead of turning a blind eye to the kkk will be joining up , So you're saying that the people who want to keep Lee's statue call people ni$$er, and you think they might be joining the KKK. That's what many people have been saying over the course of 3 threads. " what I saying this is people that up to now wouldn't be kkk material they were passive live and let live attitudes, they are turning more right wing attitudes and tolerance is not what it once was they are reverting to there grand parents attitudes , | |||
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"All this rhetoric is pointless. General Lee is as guilty as the London trader who filled the ships with slaves and made buckets of money and built huge mansions in the countryside. They are all complicit.They only difference is he fought a war, that if he had won would of kept Africans in chains.He doesn't deserve to be honoured but he should be remembered. colson had to throw 20,000 bodies of people that died on his boats over board , 20,000 that's a lot of people , ok lee went to war was a great General but he didn't go to war on his own so to place the whole civil war on his shoulders is going a bit over board , How many Americans did Lee kill? . Less than grant.... That's why he lost
Grant killed traitors against the US, Lee killed people defending the US constitution. .
What... Without due process.
I suggest you read the Constitution before bullshiting about it
They were attacking the US. When the Japanese attacked the US, and then US troops killed Japanese troops, was that with due process? .
Your a smart guy, do I really need to point out the difference in what the Constitution says about foreigners and American citizens... Now if you'd said interning Japanese Americans during ww2 ...
That applies to to drone strikes too?.
I think it should apply to American citizens equally without prejudice of colour or creed or religion or wether your in America or not!.
Let's get one thing straight, I don't like most people, Nazis especially... No system is perfect but I quite like the united states Constitution and I think Nazis have a right to protest and so does the KKK.... That doesn't mean we have to listen to them, or broadcast them on TV, it doesn't mean they have a right to put up statues with tax payer money either!."So if you like the US constitution, it would stand to reasons that you wouldn't like traitors who turn their back on it and attack the US, would it not? | |||
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"All this rhetoric is pointless. General Lee is as guilty as the London trader who filled the ships with slaves and made buckets of money and built huge mansions in the countryside. They are all complicit.They only difference is he fought a war, that if he had won would of kept Africans in chains.He doesn't deserve to be honoured but he should be remembered. colson had to throw 20,000 bodies of people that died on his boats over board , 20,000 that's a lot of people , ok lee went to war was a great General but he didn't go to war on his own so to place the whole civil war on his shoulders is going a bit over board , How many Americans did Lee kill? . Less than grant.... That's why he lost
Grant killed traitors against the US, Lee killed people defending the US constitution. .
What... Without due process.
I suggest you read the Constitution before bullshiting about it
They were attacking the US. When the Japanese attacked the US, and then US troops killed Japanese troops, was that with due process? .
Your a smart guy, do I really need to point out the difference in what the Constitution says about foreigners and American citizens... Now if you'd said interning Japanese Americans during ww2 ...
That applies to to drone strikes too?.
I think it should apply to American citizens equally without prejudice of colour or creed or religion or wether your in America or not!.
Let's get one thing straight, I don't like most people, Nazis especially... No system is perfect but I quite like the united states Constitution and I think Nazis have a right to protest and so does the KKK.... That doesn't mean we have to listen to them, or broadcast them on TV, it doesn't mean they have a right to put up statues with tax payer money either!.
So if you like the US constitution, it would stand to reasons that you wouldn't like traitors who turn their back on it and attack the US, would it not? "what is it with you and this whole traitor thing ?fuck sake it's civil war what do you think happens it's brother agents brother | |||
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Personally speaking, when I demoed I liked fighting with security guards and the cops, it was part of the excitement, if I'd been born a halfwit right wing fuckwit i could have joined the popo for the fighting | |||
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"All this rhetoric is pointless. General Lee is as guilty as the London trader who filled the ships with slaves and made buckets of money and built huge mansions in the countryside. They are all complicit.They only difference is he fought a war, that if he had won would of kept Africans in chains.He doesn't deserve to be honoured but he should be remembered. colson had to throw 20,000 bodies of people that died on his boats over board , 20,000 that's a lot of people , ok lee went to war was a great General but he didn't go to war on his own so to place the whole civil war on his shoulders is going a bit over board , How many Americans did Lee kill? . Less than grant.... That's why he lost
Grant killed traitors against the US, Lee killed people defending the US constitution. .
What... Without due process.
I suggest you read the Constitution before bullshiting about it
They were attacking the US. When the Japanese attacked the US, and then US troops killed Japanese troops, was that with due process? .
Your a smart guy, do I really need to point out the difference in what the Constitution says about foreigners and American citizens... Now if you'd said interning Japanese Americans during ww2 ...
That applies to to drone strikes too?.
I think it should apply to American citizens equally without prejudice of colour or creed or religion or wether your in America or not!.
Let's get one thing straight, I don't like most people, Nazis especially... No system is perfect but I quite like the united states Constitution and I think Nazis have a right to protest and so does the KKK.... That doesn't mean we have to listen to them, or broadcast them on TV, it doesn't mean they have a right to put up statues with tax payer money either!.
So if you like the US constitution, it would stand to reasons that you wouldn't like traitors who turn their back on it and attack the US, would it not? ". Round up Muslims and shoot them then, see if I care | |||
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"All this rhetoric is pointless. General Lee is as guilty as the London trader who filled the ships with slaves and made buckets of money and built huge mansions in the countryside. They are all complicit.They only difference is he fought a war, that if he had won would of kept Africans in chains.He doesn't deserve to be honoured but he should be remembered. colson had to throw 20,000 bodies of people that died on his boats over board , 20,000 that's a lot of people , ok lee went to war was a great General but he didn't go to war on his own so to place the whole civil war on his shoulders is going a bit over board , How many Americans did Lee kill? . Less than grant.... That's why he lost
Grant killed traitors against the US, Lee killed people defending the US constitution. .
What... Without due process.
I suggest you read the Constitution before bullshiting about it
They were attacking the US. When the Japanese attacked the US, and then US troops killed Japanese troops, was that with due process? .
Your a smart guy, do I really need to point out the difference in what the Constitution says about foreigners and American citizens... Now if you'd said interning Japanese Americans during ww2 ...
That applies to to drone strikes too?.
I think it should apply to American citizens equally without prejudice of colour or creed or religion or wether your in America or not!.
Let's get one thing straight, I don't like most people, Nazis especially... No system is perfect but I quite like the united states Constitution and I think Nazis have a right to protest and so does the KKK.... That doesn't mean we have to listen to them, or broadcast them on TV, it doesn't mean they have a right to put up statues with tax payer money either!.
So if you like the US constitution, it would stand to reasons that you wouldn't like traitors who turn their back on it and attack the US, would it not? what is it with you and this whole traitor thing ?fuck sake it's civil war what do you think happens it's brother agents brother "Well you say you like the constitution, so what does it say about civil war? About defending the constitution? What does the current USC say about "...enemies, foreign and domestic..."? | |||
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"It looks like the will be taken down , I totally disagree with it , but me disagreeing won't stop it happening , But what do the people that want them down expect to gain ? Peace , unity , understanding ,acceptance of different cultures , Or will it lead to violence , hate , intolerance , a white community feeling sidelined , Am I supposed to feel bad for Nazis feeling sidelined? Fuck them. You think the only people that this ant sitting well is Nazis , I can see how you think that . That's what you see on the telly , It's being 4 months since I was there and even then I could see a difference in people's attitudes since June last year , and I don't mean in skin heads I mean in people that have parents and grand parents that fought in world war 2 They hate Nazis more than you do , These are people that live in quite communitys in northern Louisiana , normal topics in the local would be work football the normal crap , but now the removal of our past our history they are seeing it as there history being desecrated , yes they are white yes they ant upper class people they struggle to pay the bills , they are normal people , I wouldn't count them kkk material but I would say the would turn a blind eye , these are the ones I see starting to become intolerant towards African Americans , silly things car pulled across the road in front of us and the man driving me know him 15 year never heard him say anything remotely racist , comes out with fucking N , when I said chill out , I got what to fuck do they expect , These are the people I afraid will instead of turning a blind eye to the kkk will be joining up , So you're saying that the people who want to keep Lee's statue call people ni$$er, and you think they might be joining the KKK. That's what many people have been saying over the course of 3 threads. what I saying this is people that up to now wouldn't be kkk material they were passive live and let live attitudes, they are turning more right wing attitudes and tolerance is not what it once was they are reverting to there grand parents attitudes , " What a bunch of tripe. If pulling down shitty monuments to traitors who fought a war for slavery is the thing that pushes someone into aping the worst of their grandparents generation, then I doubt your judgement that they were decent people to begin with. The threat that you shouldn't do the right thing because it might make "normal people" become utter shitbirds is always countered the same way. They're not normal. And fuck them. | |||
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"Round up Muslims and shoot them then, see if I care "My, aren't you the edgy one. | |||
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" The question was raised about the future of confederate statues and monuments , most of you here are repulsed by the idea of keeping them , fair enough that's your opinion , QUESTION My question to you now is are you equally repulsed by statues of slave traders and slavers and shippers who made there money from the trade of slaves the ones that were sold into slavery in the southern states , These to can be seen as racist oppressive people why would you dignify these with statutes or monuments , ???????? There are symbols of the slave trade in Liverpool, on buildings. I personally would say they should stay as a reminder to inhumanity to not repeat it again. unless they portray a particular person. fair enough then with the same sentiment you would agree to leave confederate states , and let them be seen by which ever side as a reminder of where a country has come from ," Yep, i agree to that. Images of certain people are part of that. If it were a figure of a person who committed acts unacceptable to our standards then move them. The destruction of a generic anonymous union soldier was excessive in my personal opinion but if were a slaver slave trader then fair enough. There are diagrams (im sure you've seen them) of how to best pack slaves into dailing ships. Horrible, but should be preserved for future generations to show the capabilities of humans to be inhumane and to learn from that. | |||
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"Round up Muslims and shoot them then, see if I care
My, aren't you the edgy one."Your Delusional if you think they will be taken down and that will be it , I'm pissed that it's happening and I ant racist , but I don't even want to think where this will end up , | |||
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"Round up Muslims and shoot them then, see if I care
My, aren't you the edgy one.
Your Delusional if you think they will be taken down and that will be it , I'm pissed that it's happening and I ant racist , but I don't even want to think where this will end up , "I'm certain some people will feel very aggrieved that the statues of those fine Confederate gentlemen are gone. And that's fine. But that they will feel aggrieved is no reason not to do it. That you're predicting consequences most vague and dire is still no reason not to do it. Nobody said doing the right thing would be easy. | |||
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"It's all down to liberal left democrats grasping at the little bit of power they have left in the towns and cities , trying to cause race wars for to destabilize the presidency , "It's democratically elected people making decisions....how can you object to that? Pretending that democracy should be ignored because it'll lead to a bunch of closet racists reverting to type is utter tripe. It's time you stopped trying to justify the unjustifiable | |||
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" The question was raised about the future of confederate statues and monuments , most of you here are repulsed by the idea of keeping them , fair enough that's your opinion , QUESTION My question to you now is are you equally repulsed by statues of slave traders and slavers and shippers who made there money from the trade of slaves the ones that were sold into slavery in the southern states , These to can be seen as racist oppressive people why would you dignify these with statutes or monuments , ???????? There are symbols of the slave trade in Liverpool, on buildings. I personally would say they should stay as a reminder to inhumanity to not repeat it again. unless they portray a particular person. Several streets in Liverpool are named after those involved with the slave trade, the City also has in the maritime museum a section which has a reproduction of a part of a slave ship .. we were as kids in the 60's not taught about that part of the Cities history which i thought wrong personally.. I agree with everything you have just said , now the fact people are screaming for the removal of confederate statues and monuments do you think it's time to look at the statutes that stand in the UK before we join the call on Americans to remove confederate statues ?? my opinions on such things have not changed since i stated them in the previous thread you started.. nor has my position that i have now said twice to you in debating what it is your tenuously clutching on to, and for the same reason.. Well if YOU are prepared to leave such statutes in the UK then I can't see how you can justify looking for America to take down what's there , well that doesn't surprise me at all that you would jump to the wrong conclusion..
It's not the wrong conclusion , in your book racism is only racism if it's carried out by someone that's not British ,
what the actual fuck are you babbling on about?
listen lightning i have never said that because guess what..
its not something i think..
stop with the making shit up, its not big nor clever.."OP your clearly not going to respond to my rebuttal to the tripe you posted above.. to clarify as you obviously could not be arsed to read my above properly even after i told you where to find it is that i have never called for the statue's or in this case Lee's statue to be removed despite his proven history as a slave owning member of the Confederate hierarchy who went to war to preserve that vile trade.. as stated i think they and other such monuments should be left because removing them may allow the truth to be twisted even further by those who seek to distort and it and to write a new historical narrative about that period.. you should recognise that potential outcome especially given your rampant denial of what happened and your attempts somewhat bizarrely of then accusing others of condoning the actions of such racists due to them not wanting a scorched earth destruction and 're branding' of any connection aspect to that period.. i respect the democratic right of an elected body to make such decisions within their remit.. accusing people of selective racism as you did with myself instead of following the very readable clues given to what that person has said is either diversion, trolling or plain stupid especially when that person has a record on this site of challenging racism etc.. | |||
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"It looks like the will be taken down , I totally disagree with it , but me disagreeing won't stop it happening , But what do the people that want them down expect to gain ? Peace , unity , understanding ,acceptance of different cultures , Or will it lead to violence , hate , intolerance , a white community feeling sidelined , Am I supposed to feel bad for Nazis feeling sidelined? Fuck them. You think the only people that this ant sitting well is Nazis , I can see how you think that . That's what you see on the telly , It's being 4 months since I was there and even then I could see a difference in people's attitudes since June last year , and I don't mean in skin heads I mean in people that have parents and grand parents that fought in world war 2 They hate Nazis more than you do , These are people that live in quite communitys in northern Louisiana , normal topics in the local would be work football the normal crap , but now the removal of our past our history they are seeing it as there history being desecrated , yes they are white yes they ant upper class people they struggle to pay the bills , they are normal people , I wouldn't count them kkk material but I would say the would turn a blind eye , these are the ones I see starting to become intolerant towards African Americans , silly things car pulled across the road in front of us and the man driving me know him 15 year never heard him say anything remotely racist , comes out with fucking N , when I said chill out , I got what to fuck do they expect , These are the people I afraid will instead of turning a blind eye to the kkk will be joining up , So you're saying that the people who want to keep Lee's statue call people ni$$er, and you think they might be joining the KKK. That's what many people have been saying over the course of 3 threads. what I saying this is people that up to now wouldn't be kkk material they were passive live and let live attitudes, they are turning more right wing attitudes and tolerance is not what it once was they are reverting to there grand parents attitudes , " the terrorism research centre at West Point would disagree with that point of view, the numbers of deaths by right wing supremacist's since '9/11' within the USA is also testimony to the fact that such attitudes as your trying to portray as only recent by those poor downtrodden white working class people seeking to 'protect their heritage' is not the case.. the racist white's are superior vile attitude of such people has not changed since the days of slavery with some of them and will never change.. that the 2 main periods for statue erection to such as Lee was prevalent in the 20's and the early 60's seems to be lost or being ignored by you OP..? those periods and the act of erecting statues and monuments was only about reminding black people of the white supremacists views and reasserting what they believe, bit like making Jewish people wear a star on their clothing under the rule of Nazi Germany.. people seeking to protect the symbols of oppression are oppressors themselves, they are not doing so that the actions that took place for the time period and whom is commemorated should be remembered objectively and lessons learned .. | |||
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"It looks like the will be taken down , I totally disagree with it , but me disagreeing won't stop it happening , But what do the people that want them down expect to gain ? Peace , unity , understanding ,acceptance of different cultures , Or will it lead to violence , hate , intolerance , a white community feeling sidelined , Am I supposed to feel bad for Nazis feeling sidelined? Fuck them. You think the only people that this ant sitting well is Nazis , I can see how you think that . That's what you see on the telly , It's being 4 months since I was there and even then I could see a difference in people's attitudes since June last year , and I don't mean in skin heads I mean in people that have parents and grand parents that fought in world war 2 They hate Nazis more than you do , These are people that live in quite communitys in northern Louisiana , normal topics in the local would be work football the normal crap , but now the removal of our past our history they are seeing it as there history being desecrated , yes they are white yes they ant upper class people they struggle to pay the bills , they are normal people , I wouldn't count them kkk material but I would say the would turn a blind eye , these are the ones I see starting to become intolerant towards African Americans , silly things car pulled across the road in front of us and the man driving me know him 15 year never heard him say anything remotely racist , comes out with fucking N , when I said chill out , I got what to fuck do they expect , These are the people I afraid will instead of turning a blind eye to the kkk will be joining up , So you're saying that the people who want to keep Lee's statue call people ni$$er, and you think they might be joining the KKK. That's what many people have been saying over the course of 3 threads. what I saying this is people that up to now wouldn't be kkk material they were passive live and let live attitudes, they are turning more right wing attitudes and tolerance is not what it once was they are reverting to there grand parents attitudes , the terrorism research centre at West Point would disagree with that point of view, the numbers of deaths by right wing supremacist's since '9/11' within the USA is also testimony to the fact that such attitudes as your trying to portray as only recent by those poor downtrodden white working class people seeking to 'protect their heritage' is not the case.. the racist white's are superior vile attitude of such people has not changed since the days of slavery with some of them and will never change.. that the 2 main periods for statue erection to such as Lee was prevalent in the 20's and the early 60's seems to be lost or being ignored by you OP..? those periods and the act of erecting statues and monuments was only about reminding black people of the white supremacists views and reasserting what they believe, bit like making Jewish people wear a star on their clothing under the rule of Nazi Germany.. people seeking to protect the symbols of oppression are oppressors themselves, they are not doing so that the actions that took place for the time period and whom is commemorated should be remembered objectively and lessons learned .. " | |||
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"It looks like the will be taken down , I totally disagree with it , but me disagreeing won't stop it happening , But what do the people that want them down expect to gain ? Peace , unity , understanding ,acceptance of different cultures , Or will it lead to violence , hate , intolerance , a white community feeling sidelined , Am I supposed to feel bad for Nazis feeling sidelined? Fuck them. You think the only people that this ant sitting well is Nazis , I can see how you think that . That's what you see on the telly , It's being 4 months since I was there and even then I could see a difference in people's attitudes since June last year , and I don't mean in skin heads I mean in people that have parents and grand parents that fought in world war 2 They hate Nazis more than you do , These are people that live in quite communitys in northern Louisiana , normal topics in the local would be work football the normal crap , but now the removal of our past our history they are seeing it as there history being desecrated , yes they are white yes they ant upper class people they struggle to pay the bills , they are normal people , I wouldn't count them kkk material but I would say the would turn a blind eye , these are the ones I see starting to become intolerant towards African Americans , silly things car pulled across the road in front of us and the man driving me know him 15 year never heard him say anything remotely racist , comes out with fucking N , when I said chill out , I got what to fuck do they expect , These are the people I afraid will instead of turning a blind eye to the kkk will be joining up , So you're saying that the people who want to keep Lee's statue call people ni$$er, and you think they might be joining the KKK. That's what many people have been saying over the course of 3 threads. what I saying this is people that up to now wouldn't be kkk material they were passive live and let live attitudes, they are turning more right wing attitudes and tolerance is not what it once was they are reverting to there grand parents attitudes , the terrorism research centre at West Point would disagree with that point of view, the numbers of deaths by right wing supremacist's since '9/11' within the USA is also testimony to the fact that such attitudes as your trying to portray as only recent by those poor downtrodden white working class people seeking to 'protect their heritage' is not the case.. the racist white's are superior vile attitude of such people has not changed since the days of slavery with some of them and will never change.. that the 2 main periods for statue erection to such as Lee was prevalent in the 20's and the early 60's seems to be lost or being ignored by you OP..? those periods and the act of erecting statues and monuments was only about reminding black people of the white supremacists views and reasserting what they believe, bit like making Jewish people wear a star on their clothing under the rule of Nazi Germany.. people seeking to protect the symbols of oppression are oppressors themselves, they are not doing so that the actions that took place for the time period and whom is commemorated should be remembered objectively and lessons learned .. " you talk about oppression like know what it is , try living in northern Ireland for a while , you don't have to preach to us about oppression | |||
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" The question was raised about the future of confederate statues and monuments , most of you here are repulsed by the idea of keeping them , fair enough that's your opinion , QUESTION My question to you now is are you equally repulsed by statues of slave traders and slavers and shippers who made there money from the trade of slaves the ones that were sold into slavery in the southern states , These to can be seen as racist oppressive people why would you dignify these with statutes or monuments , ????????" TBH I'm not at all repulsed at the idea or thought of keeping them, however I am repulsed by some of the people who want to keep. At the end of the day if the local communities want to keep them I'm happy with that and if they don't I'm happy with that to. | |||
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"I bet all the white supremacists went crazy yesterday when the sun went black. "lol pmsl | |||
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"It looks like the will be taken down , I totally disagree with it , but me disagreeing won't stop it happening , But what do the people that want them down expect to gain ? Peace , unity , understanding ,acceptance of different cultures , Or will it lead to violence , hate , intolerance , a white community feeling sidelined , Am I supposed to feel bad for Nazis feeling sidelined? Fuck them. You think the only people that this ant sitting well is Nazis , I can see how you think that . That's what you see on the telly , It's being 4 months since I was there and even then I could see a difference in people's attitudes since June last year , and I don't mean in skin heads I mean in people that have parents and grand parents that fought in world war 2 They hate Nazis more than you do , These are people that live in quite communitys in northern Louisiana , normal topics in the local would be work football the normal crap , but now the removal of our past our history they are seeing it as there history being desecrated , yes they are white yes they ant upper class people they struggle to pay the bills , they are normal people , I wouldn't count them kkk material but I would say the would turn a blind eye , these are the ones I see starting to become intolerant towards African Americans , silly things car pulled across the road in front of us and the man driving me know him 15 year never heard him say anything remotely racist , comes out with fucking N , when I said chill out , I got what to fuck do they expect , These are the people I afraid will instead of turning a blind eye to the kkk will be joining up , So you're saying that the people who want to keep Lee's statue call people ni$$er, and you think they might be joining the KKK. That's what many people have been saying over the course of 3 threads. what I saying this is people that up to now wouldn't be kkk material they were passive live and let live attitudes, they are turning more right wing attitudes and tolerance is not what it once was they are reverting to there grand parents attitudes , the terrorism research centre at West Point would disagree with that point of view, the numbers of deaths by right wing supremacist's since '9/11' within the USA is also testimony to the fact that such attitudes as your trying to portray as only recent by those poor downtrodden white working class people seeking to 'protect their heritage' is not the case.. the racist white's are superior vile attitude of such people has not changed since the days of slavery with some of them and will never change.. that the 2 main periods for statue erection to such as Lee was prevalent in the 20's and the early 60's seems to be lost or being ignored by you OP..? those periods and the act of erecting statues and monuments was only about reminding black people of the white supremacists views and reasserting what they believe, bit like making Jewish people wear a star on their clothing under the rule of Nazi Germany.. people seeking to protect the symbols of oppression are oppressors themselves, they are not doing so that the actions that took place for the time period and whom is commemorated should be remembered objectively and lessons learned .. you talk about oppression like know what it is , try living in northern Ireland for a while , you don't have to preach to us about oppression " i am not preaching.. iv'e seen it over there albeit only for a couple of tours.. strange that you recognise it as a bad thing yet you can't quite grasp that Lee was an oppressor.. what is the difference or are you being selective about the people oppressed.. | |||
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"And now there' are moves afoot to remove Nelson from his column www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/22/toppling-statues-nelsons-column-should-be-next-slavery" "Moves afoot" It's one persons opinion in a single newspaper. Get a grip. | |||
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"And now there' are moves afoot to remove Nelson from his column www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/22/toppling-statues-nelsons-column-should-be-next-slavery "Moves afoot" It's one persons opinion in a single newspaper. Get a grip." So you're saying no-one else will be calling for it? Or for other statues and monuments in the UK to be removed? | |||
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"And now there' are moves afoot to remove Nelson from his column www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/22/toppling-statues-nelsons-column-should-be-next-slavery "Moves afoot" It's one persons opinion in a single newspaper. Get a grip. So you're saying no-one else will be calling for it? Or for other statues and monuments in the UK to be removed?" I'm saying you're overselling this for reasons best not speculated upon | |||
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"It certainly will not happen, I think our Queen would have something to say about it!" Eh?  | |||
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"It certainly will not happen, I think our Queen would have something to say about it! Eh? "She will be keeping quite The royal family were to there neck in slave trade too , they were majority share holders in the south see shipping company whose main business was shipping slaves | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"And now there' are moves afoot to remove Nelson from his column www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/22/toppling-statues-nelsons-column-should-be-next-slavery "Moves afoot" It's one persons opinion in a single newspaper. Get a grip. So you're saying no-one else will be calling for it? Or for other statues and monuments in the UK to be removed?" this is what I been saying from day one how many nations have been fucked up few to UK invasion and suppression of the natives , half the world would see the statues in the UK as symbols of oppression | |||
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"It certainly will not happen, I think our Queen would have something to say about it! Eh?
She will be keeping quite
The royal family were to there neck in slave trade too , they were majority share holders in the south see shipping company whose main business was shipping slaves "It's more the notion that the Queen will put a stop to all this nonsense. | |||
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"This thread is getting pretty stupid now" Just now? | |||
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"It certainly will not happen, I think our Queen would have something to say about it! Eh?
She will be keeping quite
The royal family were to there neck in slave trade too , they were majority share holders in the south see shipping company whose main business was shipping slaves
It's more the notion that the Queen will put a stop to all this nonsense. "Ok I like winding people up here . But seriously I honestly think they should never be moved no question they shouldn't be ever touching them , definitely not in there home county ok there was s statue of Victoria in dublin before and it was taken down but that statues was gifted to Australia and far as I know it went back up there , a bit ironic Victoria Got banished to van daemons land , | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It certainly will not happen, I think our Queen would have something to say about it! Eh?
She will be keeping quite
The royal family were to there neck in slave trade too , they were majority share holders in the south see shipping company whose main business was shipping slaves
It's more the notion that the Queen will put a stop to all this nonsense.
Ok I like winding people up here .
But seriously I honestly think they should never be moved no question they shouldn't be ever touching them , definitely not in there home county ok there was s statue of Victoria in dublin before and it was taken down but that statues was gifted to Australia and far as I know it went back up there , a bit ironic Victoria
Got banished to van daemons land , "I think in the case of the US statues it is when and why they were put up, really. In some cases statue-removal is justified. I'd be unlikley to tell anyone from the former Soviet-Bloc that they ought to stick the statues of Uncle Joe back up. | |||
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"It certainly will not happen, I think our Queen would have something to say about it! Eh?
She will be keeping quite
The royal family were to there neck in slave trade too , they were majority share holders in the south see shipping company whose main business was shipping slaves
It's more the notion that the Queen will put a stop to all this nonsense.
Ok I like winding people up here .
But seriously I honestly think they should never be moved no question they shouldn't be ever touching them , definitely not in there home county ok there was s statue of Victoria in dublin before and it was taken down but that statues was gifted to Australia and far as I know it went back up there , a bit ironic Victoria
Got banished to van daemons land ,
I think in the case of the US statues it is when and why they were put up, really.
In some cases statue-removal is justified. I'd be unlikley to tell anyone from the former Soviet-Bloc that they ought to stick the statues of Uncle Joe back up. "The 18-21 August poll found that 54% of adults said Confederate monuments “should remain in all public spaces”, while 27% said they “should be removed from all public spaces”. Another 19% said they “don’t know”. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It certainly will not happen, I think our Queen would have something to say about it! Eh?
She will be keeping quite
The royal family were to there neck in slave trade too , they were majority share holders in the south see shipping company whose main business was shipping slaves
It's more the notion that the Queen will put a stop to all this nonsense.
Ok I like winding people up here .
But seriously I honestly think they should never be moved no question they shouldn't be ever touching them , definitely not in there home county ok there was s statue of Victoria in dublin before and it was taken down but that statues was gifted to Australia and far as I know it went back up there , a bit ironic Victoria
Got banished to van daemons land ,
I think in the case of the US statues it is when and why they were put up, really.
In some cases statue-removal is justified. I'd be unlikley to tell anyone from the former Soviet-Bloc that they ought to stick the statues of Uncle Joe back up.
The 18-21 August poll found that 54% of adults said Confederate monuments “should remain in all public spaces”, while 27% said they “should be removed from all public spaces”. Another 19% said they “don’t know”."That isn't my point - my point is WHY they were erected. They were not erected immediatley post war to remember Confederate troops etc - the erection of statues coincides with Jim Crow and then again with the rise of Black Nationalism and the end of segregation. They were mass-produced and designed to be erected quickly, their purpose was to send a message to southern Blacks. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"And now there' are moves afoot to remove Nelson from his column www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/22/toppling-statues-nelsons-column-should-be-next-slavery "Moves afoot" It's one persons opinion in a single newspaper. Get a grip. So you're saying no-one else will be calling for it? Or for other statues and monuments in the UK to be removed?this is what I been saying from day one how many nations have been fucked up few to UK invasion and suppression of the natives , half the world would see the statues in the UK as symbols of oppression " Yes, you've been wrong for days now. | |||
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"But what ever happens to these statues, you still want the statue of General Lee to remain, right?he got every right to stay put as long as Carson and the rest of his supporters stay in place if you think lee should be moved at least have the neck to say the slave traders and profiteers should go , Because you have decided that the issue at hand is slave trading, right? Not slave ownship, that couldn't work because you have already admitted that Lee had slaves, and kept them during the civil war. What if the issue was treason against the country? Lee took up arms against America, much like Bin Laden, don't see many statues of him about do we. Or Guy Fawkes he was a traitor to his country, he doesn't have as many statues as Lee does. slave trade and ownership go hand in had can't have one with the other ,how about statutes of the people that signed the proclamation of independence in Ireland they took up arms agents the crown they ant counted as treasonous ! Are they ?? " That's a whole bother can of worms you're opening with the Irish question. At the time many did consider their action treason even in Sothern Ireland because legally it actually was. There are still quite a few, not just in Northern Ireland, who still believe it was. I also don't think there are many, if any, statues or monuments to them in Britain. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It certainly will not happen, I think our Queen would have something to say about it! Eh?
She will be keeping quite
The royal family were to there neck in slave trade too , they were majority share holders in the south see shipping company whose main business was shipping slaves
It's more the notion that the Queen will put a stop to all this nonsense.
Ok I like winding people up here .
But seriously I honestly think they should never be moved no question they shouldn't be ever touching them , definitely not in there home county ok there was s statue of Victoria in dublin before and it was taken down but that statues was gifted to Australia and far as I know it went back up there , a bit ironic Victoria
Got banished to van daemons land ,
I think in the case of the US statues it is when and why they were put up, really.
In some cases statue-removal is justified. I'd be unlikley to tell anyone from the former Soviet-Bloc that they ought to stick the statues of Uncle Joe back up.
The 18-21 August poll found that 54% of adults said Confederate monuments “should remain in all public spaces”, while 27% said they “should be removed from all public spaces”. Another 19% said they “don’t know”.
That isn't my point - my point is WHY they were erected. They were not erected immediatley post war to remember Confederate troops etc - the erection of statues coincides with Jim Crow and then again with the rise of Black Nationalism and the end of segregation. They were mass-produced and designed to be erected quickly, their purpose was to send a message to southern Blacks. "But that don't take from the fact that 54% want them to stay And only 27% say to take them down , | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It certainly will not happen, I think our Queen would have something to say about it! Eh?
She will be keeping quite
The royal family were to there neck in slave trade too , they were majority share holders in the south see shipping company whose main business was shipping slaves
It's more the notion that the Queen will put a stop to all this nonsense.
Ok I like winding people up here .
But seriously I honestly think they should never be moved no question they shouldn't be ever touching them , definitely not in there home county ok there was s statue of Victoria in dublin before and it was taken down but that statues was gifted to Australia and far as I know it went back up there , a bit ironic Victoria
Got banished to van daemons land ,
I think in the case of the US statues it is when and why they were put up, really.
In some cases statue-removal is justified. I'd be unlikley to tell anyone from the former Soviet-Bloc that they ought to stick the statues of Uncle Joe back up.
The 18-21 August poll found that 54% of adults said Confederate monuments “should remain in all public spaces”, while 27% said they “should be removed from all public spaces”. Another 19% said they “don’t know”.
That isn't my point - my point is WHY they were erected. They were not erected immediatley post war to remember Confederate troops etc - the erection of statues coincides with Jim Crow and then again with the rise of Black Nationalism and the end of segregation. They were mass-produced and designed to be erected quickly, their purpose was to send a message to southern Blacks.
But that don't take from the fact that 54% want them to stay And only 27% say to take them down ,
"Says who? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It certainly will not happen, I think our Queen would have something to say about it! Eh?
She will be keeping quite
The royal family were to there neck in slave trade too , they were majority share holders in the south see shipping company whose main business was shipping slaves
It's more the notion that the Queen will put a stop to all this nonsense.
Ok I like winding people up here .
But seriously I honestly think they should never be moved no question they shouldn't be ever touching them , definitely not in there home county ok there was s statue of Victoria in dublin before and it was taken down but that statues was gifted to Australia and far as I know it went back up there , a bit ironic Victoria
Got banished to van daemons land ,
I think in the case of the US statues it is when and why they were put up, really.
In some cases statue-removal is justified. I'd be unlikley to tell anyone from the former Soviet-Bloc that they ought to stick the statues of Uncle Joe back up.
The 18-21 August poll found that 54% of adults said Confederate monuments “should remain in all public spaces”, while 27% said they “should be removed from all public spaces”. Another 19% said they “don’t know”.
That isn't my point - my point is WHY they were erected. They were not erected immediatley post war to remember Confederate troops etc - the erection of statues coincides with Jim Crow and then again with the rise of Black Nationalism and the end of segregation. They were mass-produced and designed to be erected quickly, their purpose was to send a message to southern Blacks.
But that don't take from the fact that 54% want them to stay And only 27% say to take them down ,
Says who?"according to a Reuters/Ipsos opinion poll that was taken the from the 18th to the 21st | |||
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"Clcc when ever you can answer a question and even pretend to be mature I'll get back to you
So I take it you would be happy for a statue of Timothy McVeigh then. You want to celebrate people who attacked America. You can have McVeigh, you can have Bin Laden, you can have Lee, you can have Yamamoto, the Tsarnaev brothers, these are the heroes that you hold up an idolise obviously.
how about you try answer the question I posed in the op , you can't cause your afraid to look at the role ok British subjects in slavery it's easier for you to point fingers Not me i think they should be removed.I think some Caribbean islands tried to sue Lloyds of London for their role in the slave trade. Very few company's exist from that time. They were unsuccessful in claiming reparations. I think if your family benefited from the slave trade you have a price to pay today. "Would that include the descendants of the Arab and African slave traders who originally captured and then sold on many of the slaves in the first place? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It certainly will not happen, I think our Queen would have something to say about it! Eh?
She will be keeping quite
The royal family were to there neck in slave trade too , they were majority share holders in the south see shipping company whose main business was shipping slaves
It's more the notion that the Queen will put a stop to all this nonsense.
Ok I like winding people up here .
But seriously I honestly think they should never be moved no question they shouldn't be ever touching them , definitely not in there home county ok there was s statue of Victoria in dublin before and it was taken down but that statues was gifted to Australia and far as I know it went back up there , a bit ironic Victoria
Got banished to van daemons land ,
I think in the case of the US statues it is when and why they were put up, really.
In some cases statue-removal is justified. I'd be unlikley to tell anyone from the former Soviet-Bloc that they ought to stick the statues of Uncle Joe back up.
The 18-21 August poll found that 54% of adults said Confederate monuments “should remain in all public spaces”, while 27% said they “should be removed from all public spaces”. Another 19% said they “don’t know”.
That isn't my point - my point is WHY they were erected. They were not erected immediatley post war to remember Confederate troops etc - the erection of statues coincides with Jim Crow and then again with the rise of Black Nationalism and the end of segregation. They were mass-produced and designed to be erected quickly, their purpose was to send a message to southern Blacks.
But that don't take from the fact that 54% want them to stay And only 27% say to take them down ,
"That some people don't want to do the right thing doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It certainly will not happen, I think our Queen would have something to say about it! Eh?
She will be keeping quite
The royal family were to there neck in slave trade too , they were majority share holders in the south see shipping company whose main business was shipping slaves
It's more the notion that the Queen will put a stop to all this nonsense.
Ok I like winding people up here .
But seriously I honestly think they should never be moved no question they shouldn't be ever touching them , definitely not in there home county ok there was s statue of Victoria in dublin before and it was taken down but that statues was gifted to Australia and far as I know it went back up there , a bit ironic Victoria
Got banished to van daemons land ,
I think in the case of the US statues it is when and why they were put up, really.
In some cases statue-removal is justified. I'd be unlikley to tell anyone from the former Soviet-Bloc that they ought to stick the statues of Uncle Joe back up.
The 18-21 August poll found that 54% of adults said Confederate monuments “should remain in all public spaces”, while 27% said they “should be removed from all public spaces”. Another 19% said they “don’t know”.
That isn't my point - my point is WHY they were erected. They were not erected immediatley post war to remember Confederate troops etc - the erection of statues coincides with Jim Crow and then again with the rise of Black Nationalism and the end of segregation. They were mass-produced and designed to be erected quickly, their purpose was to send a message to southern Blacks.
But that don't take from the fact that 54% want them to stay And only 27% say to take them down ,
That some people don't want to do the right thing doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.
"look at the figures again almost twice as many want them to stay as wants them gone it's time to listen to the people | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It certainly will not happen, I think our Queen would have something to say about it! Eh?
She will be keeping quite
The royal family were to there neck in slave trade too , they were majority share holders in the south see shipping company whose main business was shipping slaves
It's more the notion that the Queen will put a stop to all this nonsense.
Ok I like winding people up here .
But seriously I honestly think they should never be moved no question they shouldn't be ever touching them , definitely not in there home county ok there was s statue of Victoria in dublin before and it was taken down but that statues was gifted to Australia and far as I know it went back up there , a bit ironic Victoria
Got banished to van daemons land ,
I think in the case of the US statues it is when and why they were put up, really.
In some cases statue-removal is justified. I'd be unlikley to tell anyone from the former Soviet-Bloc that they ought to stick the statues of Uncle Joe back up.
The 18-21 August poll found that 54% of adults said Confederate monuments “should remain in all public spaces”, while 27% said they “should be removed from all public spaces”. Another 19% said they “don’t know”.
That isn't my point - my point is WHY they were erected. They were not erected immediatley post war to remember Confederate troops etc - the erection of statues coincides with Jim Crow and then again with the rise of Black Nationalism and the end of segregation. They were mass-produced and designed to be erected quickly, their purpose was to send a message to southern Blacks.
But that don't take from the fact that 54% want them to stay And only 27% say to take them down ,
That some people don't want to do the right thing doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.
look at the figures again almost twice as many want them to stay as wants them gone it's time to listen to the people
"Up until this you've been arguing that the statues ought to be kept, lest it turn a minority of people into frothing Klansman, and that the wishes of what you then believed to be the majority should be ignored to placate what you felt were potential racists. Now that you're emboldened by a single poll that makes you think you're part of a majority, you're saying that it's time to "listen to the people" Consistently contemptible bullshit. | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It certainly will not happen, I think our Queen would have something to say about it! Eh?
She will be keeping quite
The royal family were to there neck in slave trade too , they were majority share holders in the south see shipping company whose main business was shipping slaves
It's more the notion that the Queen will put a stop to all this nonsense.
Ok I like winding people up here .
But seriously I honestly think they should never be moved no question they shouldn't be ever touching them , definitely not in there home county ok there was s statue of Victoria in dublin before and it was taken down but that statues was gifted to Australia and far as I know it went back up there , a bit ironic Victoria
Got banished to van daemons land ,
I think in the case of the US statues it is when and why they were put up, really.
In some cases statue-removal is justified. I'd be unlikley to tell anyone from the former Soviet-Bloc that they ought to stick the statues of Uncle Joe back up.
The 18-21 August poll found that 54% of adults said Confederate monuments “should remain in all public spaces”, while 27% said they “should be removed from all public spaces”. Another 19% said they “don’t know”.
That isn't my point - my point is WHY they were erected. They were not erected immediatley post war to remember Confederate troops etc - the erection of statues coincides with Jim Crow and then again with the rise of Black Nationalism and the end of segregation. They were mass-produced and designed to be erected quickly, their purpose was to send a message to southern Blacks.
But that don't take from the fact that 54% want them to stay And only 27% say to take them down ,
That some people don't want to do the right thing doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.
"And, in a striking breakdown, 44 per cent of African Americans agreed the statues should stay, against 40 percent who said they should be removed. I hate to gloat but I think I had it rite | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It certainly will not happen, I think our Queen would have something to say about it! Eh?
She will be keeping quite
The royal family were to there neck in slave trade too , they were majority share holders in the south see shipping company whose main business was shipping slaves
It's more the notion that the Queen will put a stop to all this nonsense.
Ok I like winding people up here .
But seriously I honestly think they should never be moved no question they shouldn't be ever touching them , definitely not in there home county ok there was s statue of Victoria in dublin before and it was taken down but that statues was gifted to Australia and far as I know it went back up there , a bit ironic Victoria
Got banished to van daemons land ,
I think in the case of the US statues it is when and why they were put up, really.
In some cases statue-removal is justified. I'd be unlikley to tell anyone from the former Soviet-Bloc that they ought to stick the statues of Uncle Joe back up.
The 18-21 August poll found that 54% of adults said Confederate monuments “should remain in all public spaces”, while 27% said they “should be removed from all public spaces”. Another 19% said they “don’t know”.
That isn't my point - my point is WHY they were erected. They were not erected immediatley post war to remember Confederate troops etc - the erection of statues coincides with Jim Crow and then again with the rise of Black Nationalism and the end of segregation. They were mass-produced and designed to be erected quickly, their purpose was to send a message to southern Blacks.
But that don't take from the fact that 54% want them to stay And only 27% say to take them down ,
That some people don't want to do the right thing doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.
And, in a striking breakdown, 44 per cent of African Americans agreed the statues should stay, against 40 percent who said they should be removed.
I hate to gloat but I think I had it rite "No, you haven't. | |||
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"Speaking of that poll, the responses for the shitty statues, white and Republican. Against or unsure: minorities and Democrats This is my surprised face -_-" up until now I said they should stay if only 10 % was in favour | |||
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"Speaking of that poll, the responses for the shitty statues, white and Republican. Against or unsure: minorities and Democrats This is my surprised face -_- up until now I said they should stay if only 10 % was in favour " You've been consistently wrong, that is true. | |||
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"Speaking of that poll, the responses for the shitty statues, white and Republican. Against or unsure: minorities and Democrats This is my surprised face -_- up until now I said they should stay if only 10 % was in favour " how can I not be rite 44% African Americans want them 40% don't , and they were the poor people you worried about if you want to support there rites then agree with what they want , | |||
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"Speaking of that poll, the responses for the shitty statues, white and Republican. Against or unsure: minorities and Democrats This is my surprised face -_- up until now I said they should stay if only 10 % was in favour You've been consistently wrong, that is true." it's surly time you got out the white flag now | |||
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"And frankly, that you think this is decided on the back of a single opinion poll is laughable. You fucking wish. But, much like the people in Charlottesville who wanted to keep those statues, there's something about the misconception of being in the majority that emboldens the worst people." no not a single opinion pole there has been 3 done since the weekend ranging from 54 to 63 % in favour of keeping them | |||
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"And frankly, that you think this is decided on the back of a single opinion poll is laughable. You fucking wish. But, much like the people in Charlottesville who wanted to keep those statues, there's something about the misconception of being in the majority that emboldens the worst people. no not a single opinion pole there has been 3 done since the weekend ranging from 54 to 63 % in favour of keeping them " and the minority the 27 % I think you said it best when you taught the keep the statues vote was lower , as far as I remember what you said was Fuck them , ant that what you said ?? | |||
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