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May's Brexit vision rejected by the EU.
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I don't blame the EU for rejecting May's chambolic Brexit vision, she is cherry picking. Every one was lied to about Brexit were not given the truth as was would happen if we voted to leave. Just hope these Tory bafoons see sense. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don't blame the EU for rejecting May's chambolic Brexit vision, she is cherry picking. Every one was lied to about Brexit were not given the truth as was would happen if we voted to leave. Just hope these Tory bafoons see sense. "
Unfortunately we can all spout this is what we want and we should get it. But, the EU regard the 440m of the 27 other members to be more important than the 60m of 1 member state (UK ). We were all told "we buy more off them than they do from us- so of course they will do a deal". Well we will soon know if project fear was project reality. |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
Of course the EU did
The Tories dont have a clue wgat they are doing at they are actually willing to damage the UK
So they can get their tax haven
A hard brexit is coming and Scotland do have a way out |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
The EU have not rejected PM May's vision of Brexit. (Yet)
The next EU Parliament meeting, where it will be discussed, isn't until tomorrow.
The EU27 don't get together to discuss future negotiating options until 22nd March. This is the next EU Council meeting.
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"Of course the EU did "
Correct...
"The Tories dont have a clue wgat they are doing at they are actually willing to damage the UK "
Wrong..
"So they can get their tax haven"
So fact is even you know that they know exactly what they are doing...
So why are you denying it and claiming that the Tories are incompetent buffoons who don't know what they are doing?
Could it be that you have been so brainwashed and conditioned that you no longer have the ability to actually understand what you recognise to be the facts when it comes to politics?
" A hard brexit is coming"
Correct...
" and Scotland do have a way out "
Wrong, on the 29th March 2019 Scotland is out of the EU. It does not matter how much you rail against it, that is a fait accompli. |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"Of course the EU did
Correct...
The Tories dont have a clue wgat they are doing at they are actually willing to damage the UK
Wrong..
So they can get their tax haven
So fact is even you know that they know exactly what they are doing...
So why are you denying it and claiming that the Tories are incompetent buffoons who don't know what they are doing?
Could it be that you have been so brainwashed and conditioned that you no longer have the ability to actually understand what you recognise to be the facts when it comes to politics?
A hard brexit is coming
Correct...
and Scotland do have a way out
Wrong, on the 29th March 2019 Scotland is out of the EU. It does not matter how much you rail against it, that is a fait accompli. "
Ok how about this the Tories dont kbow what they are doing but their is some in the Tories that are foing after a hard brexit to make the UK a tax haven
Ok the final brexit deal will be known about Oct 2018
The UK leaves on the 29 March 2019 maybe
So from Oct to end of March plent of time to have a referendum on Scottish independence
The mandate is there to use before the UK leaves sorry but fact
Some of the EU have been welcoming to an independent Scotland being in the EU and could be fast tracked even said an independent Scotland could replace the UK as member state
But lets say your right an independent Scotland could be out of the EU and in the single market
You might well kiss goodbye the UK as NI and Scotland could both leave and break the UK apart no more UK
Little England oot on its own trying to get trade deals with USA do you think the NHS would be safe ? Or you think Theresa May will give that up for private firms to buy the NHS and make profits out of it
Sorry but i wont watch Scotland suffer because of England and Wales majority votes to leave the EU / single market and customs union |
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"Ok how about this the Tories dont kbow what they are doing but their is some in the Tories that are foing after a hard brexit to make the UK a tax haven
Ok the final brexit deal will be known about Oct 2018
The UK leaves on the 29 March 2019 maybe
So from Oct to end of March plent of time to have a referendum on Scottish independence
The mandate is there to use before the UK leaves sorry but fact
Some of the EU have been welcoming to an independent Scotland being in the EU and could be fast tracked even said an independent Scotland could replace the UK as member state
But lets say your right an independent Scotland could be out of the EU and in the single market
You might well kiss goodbye the UK as NI and Scotland could both leave and break the UK apart no more UK
Little England oot on its own trying to get trade deals with USA do you think the NHS would be safe ? Or you think Theresa May will give that up for private firms to buy the NHS and make profits out of it
Sorry but i wont watch Scotland suffer because of England and Wales majority votes to leave the EU / single market and customs union "
ROFL
So your answer to my item by item demolishment of what you said is to say OK the tories don't know what they are doing just some of them do...
Do you see your own contradiction of yourself?
As for your last point, you have no mandate. In fact you were told in 2014 that that was your only chance for at least a generation (that's 20 years), so you now are doubly screwed because you can only (legally) hold a plebiscite on independence at the whim of Westminster and like it or not the Maybot has decreed that the government will not give you that opportunity until AFTER THE UK HAS LEFT THE EU. Now I understand that you feel (justifiably) totally betrayed (the rest of the UK that is not part of the top 1% is going to feel the same way soon), but that does not change the facts, Scotland IS A PART OF THE UK and will be totally out of the EU before the tories even consider allowing/giving you a vote on leaving the UK.
Not you need the Westminster Governments permission to do anything and if either they of Westminster itself thinks your getting too big for your boots they are quite capable of removing all power from Holyrood and returning it to Downing St and Westminster. |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
Fucking hell democracy is not a one off event lmao how hard is that to understand
The Scottish people elected the SNP on their manifesto to hold a referendum if Scotland voted to remain and face being dragged out
Then incase you missed it there was a debate and vote in Holyrood on a section 30 order it passed democratically that is the mandate given to the Scottish government by the Scottish parilament
The mandate is for to hold a referendum on Scottish independence before the UK leaves the EU and like i said Oct 2018 is when we should get to see what the feel deal is more than likely a hard brexit which is a red line for Scotland
So Oct2018 to 29th March 1019 plenty of rime to have a referendum on Scottish independence
And like i said the EU seem very welcome to an independent Scotland being in the EU and said Scotland could be fast tracked or replace the UK as member state
And if Scotland so face being out of the EU An independent Scotland could be out the EU but in the single market
Many choices Scotland has sorry but true sort England out eh lol
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Rather than sending out sound-bites from herself and her oddball ministers, drip feeding bits of what an exit deal might be, she should get her act together and put together specific proposals, so that negotiations can properly continue.
There's a constant drip-feed, a bit this week, another bit next week etc. This is not how to negotiate and keep the goodwill of anyone.
And the Munster ministers, Reesmogg, Boris etc should be chained and gagged for the next few years.
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There are no negotiation...
The EU only call the process we are going through now a negotiation because they are hoping to keep things civil until we are out the door.
Just to be clear, this is what is happening now and has been happening since day one:
EU says: 'These are the absolute terms of access to the single market, and this is the cost. Are you will to pay?' And: 'Tell us what you want and we will tell you if you can have it and how much it will cost. By the way this is not an a la carte menu so pick whichever set meal you want and we will tell you the cost of any extras we are willing to give you'.
That is not a negotiation, that is choosing which set meal your having in a restaurant and asking if the chef will make slight adjustments to match your taste. If the chef says no then you choice is take what you are given of go elsewhere.
May and Davis are the stroppy customers in the restaurant who refuse to accept that the restaurant sets the menu and are oblivious to the fact that all the restaurant staff (the governments of the other 27 members of the EU) are just waiting for them to refuse to pay their bill for what they had previously ordered so they can kick them out and ban them for ever. Of course all the other customers who are watching just happen to be all the other businesses in town that May is looking to business with (the governments of the rest of the world).
Anyone who thinks brexit is not looking pretty but will be fine really has no idea how ugly it is going to get unless we stay in the customs union and continue paying our way and accepting all EU rules. |
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"There are no negotiation...
The EU only call the process we are going through now a negotiation because they are hoping to keep things civil until we are out the door.
Just to be clear, this is what is happening now and has been happening since day one:
EU says: 'These are the absolute terms of access to the single market, and this is the cost. Are you will to pay?' And: 'Tell us what you want and we will tell you if you can have it and how much it will cost. By the way this is not an a la carte menu so pick whichever set meal you want and we will tell you the cost of any extras we are willing to give you'.
That is not a negotiation, that is choosing which set meal your having in a restaurant and asking if the chef will make slight adjustments to match your taste. If the chef says no then you choice is take what you are given of go elsewhere.
May and Davis are the stroppy customers in the restaurant who refuse to accept that the restaurant sets the menu and are oblivious to the fact that all the restaurant staff (the governments of the other 27 members of the EU) are just waiting for them to refuse to pay their bill for what they had previously ordered so they can kick them out and ban them for ever. Of course all the other customers who are watching just happen to be all the other businesses in town that May is looking to business with (the governments of the rest of the world).
Anyone who thinks brexit is not looking pretty but will be fine really has no idea how ugly it is going to get unless we stay in the customs union and continue paying our way and accepting all EU rules."
So what should May do, roll over and do what the EU want ? The country voted for Brexit, it’s up to her to get us the best deal possible |
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"So what should May do, roll over and do what the EU want ? The country voted for Brexit, it’s up to her to get us the best deal possible"
How about stopping fucking around, being honest with us the people of the UK and then be up front with the EU. It is really that simple.
Of course that will mean that she will have to put the country before her party and face the likes of Mogg and BoJo down, and that is not going to happen because as far as the Tories are concerned it is party first and last. |
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"So what should May do, roll over and do what the EU want ? The country voted for Brexit, it’s up to her to get us the best deal possible
How about stopping fucking around, being honest with us the people of the UK and then be up front with the EU. It is really that simple.
Of course that will mean that she will have to put the country before her party and face the likes of Mogg and BoJo down, and that is not going to happen because as far as the Tories are concerned it is party first and last. "
So what’s best for the country ? Where is she putting party before country ? Regardless of what we voted for personally, I’d like to see the country unite and try and get the best deal, it seems so many people want Brexit to fail so they can point score against Labour/Tories. |
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"So what’s best for the country ? Where is she putting party before country ? Regardless of what we voted for personally, I’d like to see the country unite and try and get the best deal, it seems so many people want Brexit to fail so they can point score against Labour/Tories. "
Whats best for the country? Really?
I answered that, but just for you Ill do it again (but louder)...
THAT MAY STOPS LYING TO US AND PARLIAMENT, TELLS US THE TRUTH AND THEN DOES WHAT IS BEST FOR THE COUNTRY RATHER THAN WHAT IS BEST FOR THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY! |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"So what should May do, roll over and do what the EU want ? The country voted for Brexit, it’s up to her to get us the best deal possible
How about stopping fucking around, being honest with us the people of the UK and then be up front with the EU. It is really that simple.
Of course that will mean that she will have to put the country before her party and face the likes of Mogg and BoJo down, and that is not going to happen because as far as the Tories are concerned it is party first and last.
So what’s best for the country ? Where is she putting party before country ? Regardless of what we voted for personally, I’d like to see the country unite and try and get the best deal, it seems so many people want Brexit to fail so they can point score against Labour/Tories. "
All the talk of keeping their cards hidden and negotiating the “best deal” has always been complete rubbish. There was no deal to negotiate - EVER. May completely hamstrung herself very early on by setting out red lines. That was a stupid negotiating tactic. What she should have said was words to the effect...
“Our people have voted to leave the EU and it is incumbent on me to make this happen. How we make it happen and where we end up - we rule nothing in and we rule nothing out - we want what is best for the U.K.” |
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"So what’s best for the country ? Where is she putting party before country ? Regardless of what we voted for personally, I’d like to see the country unite and try and get the best deal, it seems so many people want Brexit to fail so they can point score against Labour/Tories.
Whats best for the country? Really?
I answered that, but just for you Ill do it again (but louder)...
THAT MAY STOPS LYING TO US AND PARLIAMENT, TELLS US THE TRUTH AND THEN DOES WHAT IS BEST FOR THE COUNTRY RATHER THAN WHAT IS BEST FOR THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY!"
Ah, politicians to stop lying and everything will be ok. ???? |
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"So what should May do, roll over and do what the EU want ? The country voted for Brexit, it’s up to her to get us the best deal possible
How about stopping fucking around, being honest with us the people of the UK and then be up front with the EU. It is really that simple.
Of course that will mean that she will have to put the country before her party and face the likes of Mogg and BoJo down, and that is not going to happen because as far as the Tories are concerned it is party first and last.
So what’s best for the country ? Where is she putting party before country ? Regardless of what we voted for personally, I’d like to see the country unite and try and get the best deal, it seems so many people want Brexit to fail so they can point score against Labour/Tories.
All the talk of keeping their cards hidden and negotiating the “best deal” has always been complete rubbish. There was no deal to negotiate - EVER. May completely hamstrung herself very early on by setting out red lines. That was a stupid negotiating tactic. What she should have said was words to the effect...
“Our people have voted to leave the EU and it is incumbent on me to make this happen. How we make it happen and where we end up - we rule nothing in and we rule nothing out - we want what is best for the U.K.”"
Yeah that would work, the EU would be so grateful and give us a better deal ?? |
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Most people who voted for brexit didn't get what they voted for and they're not going to get it. Blame the EU because they have rules for when a club member wants to leave? -this insanity has become almost like a religion with the brexiteers seeing themselves as revolutionaries-possibly the only revolution in history where people are steadfast in their determination to make things worse. Can anyone tell me what's good about brexit and how it will be better out of the single biggest trading bloc on the planet? |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"So what should May do, roll over and do what the EU want ? The country voted for Brexit, it’s up to her to get us the best deal possible
How about stopping fucking around, being honest with us the people of the UK and then be up front with the EU. It is really that simple.
Of course that will mean that she will have to put the country before her party and face the likes of Mogg and BoJo down, and that is not going to happen because as far as the Tories are concerned it is party first and last.
So what’s best for the country ? Where is she putting party before country ? Regardless of what we voted for personally, I’d like to see the country unite and try and get the best deal, it seems so many people want Brexit to fail so they can point score against Labour/Tories.
All the talk of keeping their cards hidden and negotiating the “best deal” has always been complete rubbish. There was no deal to negotiate - EVER. May completely hamstrung herself very early on by setting out red lines. That was a stupid negotiating tactic. What she should have said was words to the effect...
“Our people have voted to leave the EU and it is incumbent on me to make this happen. How we make it happen and where we end up - we rule nothing in and we rule nothing out - we want what is best for the U.K.”
Yeah that would work, the EU would be so grateful and give us a better deal ??"
Laying out your red lines at the start of a negotiation never works. The key is to put your emotions away and start with a blank piece of paper and keep your opposition guessing. Theresa May and her band of Brexiters are quite simply incompetent.
You u may have been waving your Union Jack and singing rule Britannia when she laid out her red lines at the outset, but what she did right back then was eliminate any negotiating advantage. |
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"So what should May do, roll over and do what the EU want ? The country voted for Brexit, it’s up to her to get us the best deal possible
How about stopping fucking around, being honest with us the people of the UK and then be up front with the EU. It is really that simple.
Of course that will mean that she will have to put the country before her party and face the likes of Mogg and BoJo down, and that is not going to happen because as far as the Tories are concerned it is party first and last.
So what’s best for the country ? Where is she putting party before country ? Regardless of what we voted for personally, I’d like to see the country unite and try and get the best deal, it seems so many people want Brexit to fail so they can point score against Labour/Tories. "
It's not that we want BREXIT to fail. It's more that we believe that any reasonable analysis of BREXIT means it will fail, the only question in our minds is will it be bad or will it be a total disaster. There is ZERO chance of us uniting behind BREXIT unless it can be shown exactly how it's actually going to solve any of our problems or make anything better. So far I see little sign that it will do either. |
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There are some positives in brexit: 1. What country can say that at least half the people are caring, compassionate and emotionally literate? 2. It exposes the tory party as a bunch of spivs-party before country... For the 1st time in a lone time, politics is actually interesting and frightening. 3. I was born in England, my grandfather was Irish and whilst that never mattered before, I'm relieved that I can now get an Irish passport; I never wanted to feel like that about this country, the place of my birth.  |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"So what should May do, roll over and do what the EU want ? The country voted for Brexit, it’s up to her to get us the best deal possible
How about stopping fucking around, being honest with us the people of the UK and then be up front with the EU. It is really that simple.
Of course that will mean that she will have to put the country before her party and face the likes of Mogg and BoJo down, and that is not going to happen because as far as the Tories are concerned it is party first and last.
So what’s best for the country ? Where is she putting party before country ? Regardless of what we voted for personally, I’d like to see the country unite and try and get the best deal, it seems so many people want Brexit to fail so they can point score against Labour/Tories. "
The best deal is the one we are walking away from. Whatever comes next inevitably will be inferior, creating barriers when none currently exist.
Or do you think you can leave the EU and still retain all the benefits of membership?
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"There are some positives in brexit: 1. What country can say that at least half the people are caring, compassionate and emotionally literate? 2. It exposes the tory party as a bunch of spivs-party before country... For the 1st time in a lone time, politics is actually interesting and frightening. 3. I was born in England, my grandfather was Irish and whilst that never mattered before, I'm relieved that I can now get an Irish passport; I never wanted to feel like that about this country, the place of my birth. "
I know what you mean. However I think part of the problem is seeing this as a Tory BREXIT when it's not. It's just BREXIT and it wouldn't be much better or worse if Labour were in power and running it. It may give some anti Tories a warm feeling to blame the whole mess on the Conservative government (with some justification) but pro EU Labour supporters would do the cause a lot more good if they convinced their own Euroskeptic leaders to change direction. Labour's move to back a customs union is a step in the right direction but nowhere near enough yet.
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"There are some positives in brexit: 1. What country can say that at least half the people are caring, compassionate and emotionally literate? 2. It exposes the tory party as a bunch of spivs-party before country... For the 1st time in a lone time, politics is actually interesting and frightening. 3. I was born in England, my grandfather was Irish and whilst that never mattered before, I'm relieved that I can now get an Irish passport; I never wanted to feel like that about this country, the place of my birth.
I know what you mean. However I think part of the problem is seeing this as a Tory BREXIT when it's not. It's just BREXIT and it wouldn't be much better or worse if Labour were in power and running it. It may give some anti Tories a warm feeling to blame the whole mess on the Conservative government (with some justification) but pro EU Labour supporters would do the cause a lot more good if they convinced their own Euroskeptic leaders to change direction. Labour's move to back a customs union is a step in the right direction but nowhere near enough yet.
"
This is a Tory Brexit. There is no chance that any Labour Govt would act as crassly as these people are. Not for one second do I believe that under Labour guidance this would be even remotely similar.
This must be the first time in history that a sitting Govt is so blatantly lying to its own population in order to pursue a policy that will make the country and 99.99% of its citizens poorer and less relevant in the world. |
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"I know what you mean. However I think part of the problem is seeing this as a Tory BREXIT when it's not. It's just BREXIT and it wouldn't be much better or worse if Labour were in power and running it. It may give some anti Tories a warm feeling to blame the whole mess on the Conservative government (with some justification) but pro EU Labour supporters would do the cause a lot more good if they convinced their own Euroskeptic leaders to change direction. Labour's move to back a customs union is a step in the right direction but nowhere near enough yet.
"
But this is a TORY BREXIT!
It was a political device thought up by the pig fucker and his smarmy sidekick to keep the Tories in power in 2015 and the whole Brexit campaign (on both sides) degenerated into the political equivalent the wall game played out by 3 Tory Eaton posh boys who couldn't decide when the pig fucker was stepping down and if BoJo or Gideon was going to take his place!
And 3 years on from the Tories first deciding to put party before country they are still at it! To be absolutely honest considering that every one of them took an oath of allegiance before taking their seats in parliament (something Sinn Fein who they have called traitors on many occasions refuse to do), I think their conduct is such a serious treason they should all face trial and the death penalty should be an option. |
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"Death penalty? No-kicked out of office and exposed for the self-serving crooks and corporate whores they really are? Yes."
I truly believe they have gone far beyond that, and are now manipulating the country to produce a disaster economy so that they and their mates can finish the project to transfer wealth held in trust by the government for the nation to themselves and their backers, started by Thatcher. The fact is there is only one way of dealing with such treason in such a way as to ensure it never happens again. The way is simple, kill every one of the bastards and then have a holiday every year to celibate their removal. (It worked for us after the gunpowder plot and the French after the revolution, think Bonfire Night and Bastille Day.) |
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"Violence breeds only violence-we could deport them to the US"
That is a fallacy...
Now if you said proportional violence leads to escalation in violence I would agree, but the fact is if an overtly non violent person or society suddenly uses overwhelming unrestrained violence against another person or society, suddenly everyone who witnesses that violence decides that actually they have no wish to either escalate the conflict or start another one. The problems are that generally in conflicts there is a gradual increase in levels of aggression and that those involved or witnessing the evolving violence become desensitised (in the military it is called becoming battle hardened) and that both pacifism and proportional responses act as catalysts to aggressors. The only thing that makes aggressors decide they really need to stop is an overwhelming totally over the top reaction that really does shock and transfix everyone involved or witnessing the act.
There is a reason elite forces round the world follow the basic rule of 'go ugly early', although totally counter intuitive, it works! Softly softly does not.
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"Join the Labour Party and Momentum to vote them out. Simple and effective-just wait and see. "
I am already an active member of the Labour Party. Although I support Momentum I will not be joining it as I have already seen one party purge by Tory enterists and know they are more than capable of doing the same again in order to destroy any organised opposition that threatens their survival. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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She lives in a fantasy world, she is leading the uk to a cliff edge as the date of leaving is getting closer, it looks like a no deal and in spain they warn the brits to seek residence. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Aw this cliff edge is getting old now how about the red bus it's been a while lol
these brexit threads do get boring, same old same old same old"
It's the hottest topic of this decade |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Aw this cliff edge is getting old now how about the red bus it's been a while lol
these brexit threads do get boring, same old same old same old
It's the hottest topic of this decade "
It's the hottest topic that will affect everyone in one shape or another and if it bores people then they know what they can / should do  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Aw this cliff edge is getting old now how about the red bus it's been a while lol
these brexit threads do get boring, same old same old same old
It's the hottest topic of this decade
It's the hottest topic that will affect everyone in one shape or another and if it bores people then they know what they can / should do "
Exactly, but I think he's just disappointed lol already |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Aw this cliff edge is getting old now how about the red bus it's been a while lol
these brexit threads do get boring, same old same old same old
It's the hottest topic of this decade
It's the hottest topic that will affect everyone in one shape or another and if it bores people then they know what they can / should do
Exactly, but I think he's just disappointed lol already "
perhaps that's the trouble!
.
"you think" |
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