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Irish border backstop agreed
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The backstop will include a temporary UK wide customs agreement and Northern Ireland will have specific provisions on customs and alignment and have a mechanism in case the UK wide agreement fails to avoid a hard border.
Thoughts? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The backstop will include a temporary UK wide customs agreement and Northern Ireland will have specific provisions on customs and alignment and have a mechanism in case the UK wide agreement fails to avoid a hard border.
Thoughts?"
I think T May will present it to MP's saying THIS IS BREXIT, vote yes to follow the will of the people, or vote it down & BREXIT is off, scrapped, void. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The backstop will include a temporary UK wide customs agreement and Northern Ireland will have specific provisions on customs and alignment and have a mechanism in case the UK wide agreement fails to avoid a hard border.
Thoughts?
I think T May will present it to MP's saying THIS IS BREXIT, vote yes to follow the will of the people, or vote it down & BREXIT is off, scrapped, void."
... closely followed by a GE |
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Thoughts are that Theresa May's Chequers plan which Includes this Irish backstop will never get the votes it needs in the UK Parliament. She doesn't have a majority and the DUP will never accept this and vote against it. The pro Brexit ERG group of around 40 tories want a Canada plus style free trade deal with the EU and won't accept Chequers so will also vote against it. Some remainers in the Tory party like Jo Johnson who resigned the other day over Theresa May's plan won't vote for it either. The Labour party have already made it clear they will vote against it. Chequers is dead, but for some reason Theresa May just can't see the writing that is already on the wall. |
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"Guess Centy is going to have to wait until hes out of the customs union after all, champagne will be staying on ice for a while now  "
This fudge won't get past a vote in the UK parliament. The deal will be voted down then we're heading for a no deal exit in March next year (out of the customs union). I will be popping a bottle of something maybe a UK or an Australian made sparkling wine or a few cans of beer but none of that french muck you call Champagne thanks. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
She may find it easier to negotiate with Mr Barnier & co than her own "colleagues".
If it's true she has found a way through this morass, even one that is temporary, than I will think more highly of her than I have before.
The risk is whether she can carry her own party, or is the lunatic fringe in the Conservative Party hell-bent on the ideological destruction of the country as well as party?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Guess Centy is going to have to wait until hes out of the customs union after all, champagne will be staying on ice for a while now
This fudge won't get past a vote in the UK parliament. The deal will be voted down then we're heading for a no deal exit in March next year (out of the customs union). I will be popping a bottle of something maybe a UK or an Australian made sparkling wine or a few cans of beer but none of that french muck you call Champagne thanks. "
I honestly can't see May crashing out with no deal.
If Parliament vote down then I then mwybe see a vote of no confidence, leadership battle then God knows what. |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"She may find it easier to negotiate with Mr Barnier & co than her own "colleagues".
If it's true she has found a way through this morass, even one that is temporary, than I will think more highly of her than I have before.
The risk is whether she can carry her own party, or is the lunatic fringe in the Conservative Party hell-bent on the ideological destruction of the country as well as party?
"
The weird thing? I'm actually starting to feel slightly sorry for her. She has basically got to try and deliver a shit sandwich. And all the while being fucked over by her own side.
-Matt |
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Oh the sheer irony of those now calling for Parliament to vote this down yet when the suggestion was put that Parliament should have oversight some 18+ month's ago were up in arms over the very thought.. 
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
If Parliament votes this down, it will be the Conservative Party that is complete meltdown.
What can Mrs May do? Resign is the only option.
So then the country is paralysed for weeks or months while 100,000 Conservative Party members vote on what they think is the most important issue for a generation.
I say "what they think", because the reality is the country will have been well and truly fucked over by then.
The UK - neither the state nor business - has the capacity or capability to deal with the consequences of a no-deal exit on March 29.
There will be no time to negotiate any alternative and get it ratified.
So that's why those Conservative MPs who pull down any agreement, and take Mrs May with it, will be taking down the country, too.
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"Oh the sheer irony of those now calling for Parliament to vote this down yet when the suggestion was put that Parliament should have oversight some 18+ month's ago were up in arms over the very thought..
"
Yes it's funny how things turn out. The sheer irony of Labour (and mostly remain) supporters being jubilant and smug on here after the general election when Theresa May failed to gain a majority. If she had got her majority then she could have probably forced this deal through parliament. Now those same people who were gloating on here after the general election are saying they are "feeling sorry for her" lol.
Because she didn't get a majority and she's now relying on the DUP, haha. |
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" She doesn't have a majority and the DUP will never accept this and vote against it. "
Blood red liiinnOH OKAY MORE MONEY
"
but none of that french muck you call Champagne thanks."
Nan? is that you?
"
The weird thing? I'm actually starting to feel slightly sorry for her. She has basically got to try and deliver a shit sandwich. And all the while being fucked over by her own side.
-Matt"
She was on a hiding to nothing from the minute she took the job but ego or hubris didn't deter her, but then anyone would have been because it's just plainly undeliverable. |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"Oh the sheer irony of those now calling for Parliament to vote this down yet when the suggestion was put that Parliament should have oversight some 18+ month's ago were up in arms over the very thought..
Yes it's funny how things turn out. The sheer irony of Labour (and mostly remain) supporters being jubilant and smug on here after the general election when Theresa May failed to gain a majority. If she had got her majority then she could have probably forced this deal through parliament. Now those same people who were gloating on here after the general election are saying they are "feeling sorry for her" lol.
Because she didn't get a majority and she's now relying on the DUP, haha. "
Lol... you still don't see how much *her own party* is against her do you? I don't think her having a majority in the last election would really have helped her much to be honest.
Oh, and don't worry, whilst I did say I'm amazingly starting to feel a bit sorry for her, she did bring all of this on herself, and she did decide to pick up the poison chalice that was Brexit in the first place. So she is in all this mess of her own complete and utter lack of ability or plan.
-Matt |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Guess Centy is going to have to wait until hes out of the customs union after all, champagne will be staying on ice for a while now
This fudge won't get past a vote in the UK parliament. The deal will be voted down then we're heading for a no deal exit in March next year (out of the customs union). I will be popping a bottle of something maybe a UK or an Australian made sparkling wine or a few cans of beer but none of that french muck you call Champagne thanks.
I honestly can't see May crashing out with no deal.
If Parliament vote down then I then mwybe see a vote of no confidence, leadership battle then God knows what."
general election or the 2nd vote..... 1 of them is likely coming....
any labour brexiteer basically voting with the government to prop this up you know is going to be deselected!
i wonder how many ministers will end up resigning once they see the text...
over/under 3? |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"The backstop will include a temporary UK wide customs agreement and Northern Ireland will have specific provisions on customs and alignment and have a mechanism in case the UK wide agreement fails to avoid a hard border.
Thoughts?"
How do you know this detail? I am seeing lots of speculation but nothing solid seems to have leaked as far as I have seen. Unless I missed it. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"The backstop will include a temporary UK wide customs agreement and Northern Ireland will have specific provisions on customs and alignment and have a mechanism in case the UK wide agreement fails to avoid a hard border.
Thoughts?
How do you know this detail? I am seeing lots of speculation but nothing solid seems to have leaked as far as I have seen. Unless I missed it."
looks like it was leaked to the irish media....
"RTÉ News understands that while the main backstop focuses on a UK-wide customs arrangement, there will be specific provisions within the text and within annexes for Northern Ireland, should the UK-wide arrangement not prove sufficient to avoid a hard border."
in simple terms..... trade border down the irish sea, daring the DUP to vote it down! |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Oh the sheer irony of those now calling for Parliament to vote this down yet when the suggestion was put that Parliament should have oversight some 18+ month's ago were up in arms over the very thought..
"
Oh the sheer irony of people saying it should be parliament, and not the people, who have the final say some 18 months ago now saying their should be a 'people's vote' on the final deal...
|
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As I understand things to have this backstop position means that for the time it is in force we must remain in the customs union, so we must continue to enact EU legislation, and continue to contribute to the EU budget, but without the rebates we get at present or a say on how the money is spent and of course we will no longer be entitled to receive payments from the EU budget seeing as we will no longer be members of the EU. So pretty much exactly what I said 3 years ago would be the the 'best, worst' outcome if we voted to leave the EU and that Centy and others (no longer here) claimed I could not know because I was not clairvoyant and did not have a crystal ball.
So much for saving money and taking back control.
And all this pain and the pain to come so a bunch of Tory poshboys could stay in power for a few more months. What a farce! |
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"The backstop will include a temporary UK wide customs agreement and Northern Ireland will have specific provisions on customs and alignment and have a mechanism in case the UK wide agreement fails to avoid a hard border.
Thoughts?
How do you know this detail? I am seeing lots of speculation but nothing solid seems to have leaked as far as I have seen. Unless I missed it."
The Irish negotiating team as part of the EU side leaked it to the state broadcaster RTE (our version of the BBC). Theyve done this throughout the negotiations and always been reliable. Officially no ones saying anything yet because May still has to get it through. But hard to see how a deal gets done if the UK reject this. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"As I understand things to have this backstop position means that for the time it is in force we must remain in the customs union, so we must continue to enact EU legislation, and continue to contribute to the EU budget, but without the rebates we get at present or a say on how the money is spent and of course we will no longer be entitled to receive payments from the EU budget seeing as we will no longer be members of the EU. So pretty much exactly what I said 3 years ago would be the the 'best, worst' outcome if we voted to leave the EU and that Centy and others (no longer here) claimed I could not know because I was not clairvoyant and did not have a crystal ball.
So much for saving money and taking back control.
And all this pain and the pain to come so a bunch of Tory poshboys could stay in power for a few more months. What a farce!"
will.... now is not the time to say "i told you so"
now is the time to watch all the brexiteers just explode amongst themsleves....
so basically CU stays, but we have no say in any rules.... and if that goes then NI will stay in CU and trade border is down the irish sea!
classic......
and roll on the election....or the 2nd vote..... |
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"As I understand things to have this backstop position means that for the time it is in force we must remain in the customs union, so we must continue to enact EU legislation, and continue to contribute to the EU budget, but without the rebates we get at present or a say on how the money is spent and of course we will no longer be entitled to receive payments from the EU budget seeing as we will no longer be members of the EU. So pretty much exactly what I said 3 years ago would be the the 'best, worst' outcome if we voted to leave the EU and that Centy and others (no longer here) claimed I could not know because I was not clairvoyant and did not have a crystal ball.
So much for saving money and taking back control.
And all this pain and the pain to come so a bunch of Tory poshboys could stay in power for a few more months. What a farce!
will.... now is not the time to say "i told you so"
now is the time to watch all the brexiteers just explode amongst themsleves....
so basically CU stays, but we have no say in any rules.... and if that goes then NI will stay in CU and trade border is down the irish sea!
classic......
and roll on the election....or the 2nd vote....."
Sorry Fabio, but after nearly 3 years of being mocked and told I know nothing and understand nothing I really could not resist a little dig.   |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
in simple terms..... trade border down the irish sea, daring the DUP to vote it down!"
The story I heard is that the backstop is still in there.
It's the fallback position - that NI stays in an alignment with the Republic and the EU - in the event the UK fails to follow through with whatever is agreed.
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Put the Brexit-eers out of their misery. Have the citizens vote on the actual deal or remain, if anything gets passed by parliament. It's all about the sovereignty of the people, so make the people and their representatives decide upon the specific deal. |
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"Oh the sheer irony of those now calling for Parliament to vote this down yet when the suggestion was put that Parliament should have oversight some 18+ month's ago were up in arms over the very thought..
Oh the sheer irony of people saying it should be parliament, and not the people, who have the final say some 18 months ago now saying their should be a 'people's vote' on the final deal...
"
Given the state of Parliament as this has gone on it is common sense if they can't sort it that it goes back to the people..
Has to be a better option than a no deal if Parliament are not able to decide..
So less than irony, a case of adapting to changes.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Can someone explain to me why we can't have a similar customs agreement like the one between Norway and Sweden.
As far as I know this is a good system and not beyond our tech capabilities.
I heard Lars Karlsen on 5 live a while back who was the director of the customs agreement between the 2 contries, and he said it was achievable and the tech was there ?? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Can someone explain to me why we can't have a similar customs agreement like the one between Norway and Sweden.
As far as I know this is a good system and not beyond our tech capabilities.
I heard Lars Karlsen on 5 live a while back who was the director of the customs agreement between the 2 contries, and he said it was achievable and the tech was there ??"
Because the brexiteers don't want it! |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Can someone explain to me why we can't have a similar customs agreement like the one between Norway and Sweden.
As far as I know this is a good system and not beyond our tech capabilities.
I heard Lars Karlsen on 5 live a while back who was the director of the customs agreement between the 2 contries, and he said it was achievable and the tech was there ??
Because the brexiteers don't want it!"
three words...
"freedom of movement"....
which is the no no for brexiteers.... |
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"Guess Centy is going to have to wait until hes out of the customs union after all, champagne will be staying on ice for a while now
This fudge won't get past a vote in the UK parliament. The deal will be voted down then we're heading for a no deal exit in March next year (out of the customs union). I will be popping a bottle of something maybe a UK or an Australian made sparkling wine or a few cans of beer but none of that french muck you call Champagne thanks. "
There's no way we're leaving without a deal without another vote, either GE or people's vote. |
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"Oh the sheer irony of those now calling for Parliament to vote this down yet when the suggestion was put that Parliament should have oversight some 18+ month's ago were up in arms over the very thought..
Yes it's funny how things turn out. The sheer irony of Labour (and mostly remain) supporters being jubilant and smug on here after the general election when Theresa May failed to gain a majority. If she had got her majority then she could have probably forced this deal through parliament. Now those same people who were gloating on here after the general election are saying they are "feeling sorry for her" lol.
Because she didn't get a majority and she's now relying on the DUP, haha. "
I don't feel sorry for her
The shit sandwich was obvious before the brexit vote
It's happened daily since and will continue for years to come
She decided to take on a ridiculous task for a cushy pension
I genuinely think any person who thinks it is even possible , let alone desirable to crash out without a deal is a moron in its truest sense
The news we have just heard is propaganda to defer the recession
As noted any agreement with the Eu will not be accepted by the brexit part of the government
At very very best it will be all in but not in and all bar the hard brexit will vote for it
Anything else will not have support , government will crash and then omg I can't predict but it's bad very bad very very bad or worse |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Oh the sheer irony of those now calling for Parliament to vote this down yet when the suggestion was put that Parliament should have oversight some 18+ month's ago were up in arms over the very thought..
Yes it's funny how things turn out. The sheer irony of Labour (and mostly remain) supporters being jubilant and smug on here after the general election when Theresa May failed to gain a majority. If she had got her majority then she could have probably forced this deal through parliament. Now those same people who were gloating on here after the general election are saying they are "feeling sorry for her" lol.
Because she didn't get a majority and she's now relying on the DUP, haha. "
Do you think it's funny? I feel "sorry" that your so bitter that your gloating in the chaos!
If it wasn't for the crazy "right wing extremists " baying for A50 being triggered we wouldn't be in this mess! Leave campaign clearly had no plan and it's taken months to put something down on paper which resembles a negotiating stance! The bullshit of not wanting to show our hand was exactly that! What they are trying to do is "buy time" but the crazy right, DUP, and Labour are just going to send the country down the pan just when we need to pull together! |
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"Oh the sheer irony of those now calling for Parliament to vote this down yet when the suggestion was put that Parliament should have oversight some 18+ month's ago were up in arms over the very thought..
Yes it's funny how things turn out. The sheer irony of Labour (and mostly remain) supporters being jubilant and smug on here after the general election when Theresa May failed to gain a majority. If she had got her majority then she could have probably forced this deal through parliament. Now those same people who were gloating on here after the general election are saying they are "feeling sorry for her" lol.
Because she didn't get a majority and she's now relying on the DUP, haha.
Do you think it's funny? I feel "sorry" that your so bitter that your gloating in the chaos!
If it wasn't for the crazy "right wing extremists " baying for A50 being triggered we wouldn't be in this mess! Leave campaign clearly had no plan and it's taken months to put something down on paper which resembles a negotiating stance! The bullshit of not wanting to show our hand was exactly that! What they are trying to do is "buy time" but the crazy right, DUP, and Labour are just going to send the country down the pan just when we need to pull together! "
Hard brexit has no plan beyond , leave now , no deal
It's pure ignorance
Surely we all have a dream of utopia , however the observant amongst us will understand beyond what we may want , external forces beyond our control prevent our dreams
It is disgusting that the dream of leaving without consequence is still perpetuated as a reasonable expectation |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Can someone explain to me why we can't have a similar customs agreement like the one between Norway and Sweden.
As far as I know this is a good system and not beyond our tech capabilities.
I heard Lars Karlsen on 5 live a while back who was the director of the customs agreement between the 2 contries, and he said it was achievable and the tech was there ??
Because the brexiteers don't want it!
three words...
"freedom of movement"....
which is the no no for brexiteers...."
Also 40 crossings versus c 300
Also every lorry is checked. The tech is for cars.
(Average is four minutes for this “super sophisticated” border)
I’m also guessing that whatever they do on this border they need to also do on their other borders. |
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"As I understand things to have this backstop position means that for the time it is in force we must remain in the customs union, so we must continue to enact EU legislation, and continue to contribute to the EU budget, but without the rebates we get at present or a say on how the money is spent and of course we will no longer be entitled to receive payments from the EU budget seeing as we will no longer be members of the EU. So pretty much exactly what I said 3 years ago would be the the 'best, worst' outcome if we voted to leave the EU and that Centy and others (no longer here) claimed I could not know because I was not clairvoyant and did not have a crystal ball.
So much for saving money and taking back control.
And all this pain and the pain to come so a bunch of Tory poshboys could stay in power for a few more months. What a farce!
will.... now is not the time to say "i told you so"
now is the time to watch all the brexiteers just explode amongst themsleves....
so basically CU stays, but we have no say in any rules.... and if that goes then NI will stay in CU and trade border is down the irish sea!
classic......
and roll on the election....or the 2nd vote.....
Sorry Fabio, but after nearly 3 years of being mocked and told I know nothing and understand nothing I really could not resist a little dig. "
I'm with you on this. It's exactly what I said would happen too.
The only good thing about this deal is that it's better than 'no deal'. But then no deal is worse than 'no deal'.
As it stands this deal does not give us control of our borders, our money or our trade. It is the biggest humiliation and the biggest give away of sovereignty since the Norman Conquest and takes away all our control over the rules and regulations we will still have to live by. Everyone, whether originally leave or remain should oppose this deal. It's so clearly worse than the deal we currently have now as a full member of the EU.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As I understand things to have this backstop position means that for the time it is in force we must remain in the customs union, so we must continue to enact EU legislation, and continue to contribute to the EU budget, but without the rebates we get at present or a say on how the money is spent and of course we will no longer be entitled to receive payments from the EU budget seeing as we will no longer be members of the EU. So pretty much exactly what I said 3 years ago would be the the 'best, worst' outcome if we voted to leave the EU and that Centy and others (no longer here) claimed I could not know because I was not clairvoyant and did not have a crystal ball.
So much for saving money and taking back control.
And all this pain and the pain to come so a bunch of Tory poshboys could stay in power for a few more months. What a farce!
will.... now is not the time to say "i told you so"
now is the time to watch all the brexiteers just explode amongst themsleves....
so basically CU stays, but we have no say in any rules.... and if that goes then NI will stay in CU and trade border is down the irish sea!
classic......
and roll on the election....or the 2nd vote.....
Sorry Fabio, but after nearly 3 years of being mocked and told I know nothing and understand nothing I really could not resist a little dig.
I'm with you on this. It's exactly what I said would happen too.
The only good thing about this deal is that it's better than 'no deal'. But then no deal is worse than 'no deal'.
As it stands this deal does not give us control of our borders, our money or our trade. It is the biggest humiliation and the biggest give away of sovereignty since the Norman Conquest and takes away all our control over the rules and regulations we will still have to live by. Everyone, whether originally leave or remain should oppose this deal. It's so clearly worse than the deal we currently have now as a full member of the EU.
"
Facing hard facts though, no deal that the Government could have negotiated would have been anywhere near as good as the deal we currently have.
How anyone could ever think we'd get a better deal or even the same level of deal by leaving the EU astounds me. |
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"Can someone explain to me why we can't have a similar customs agreement like the one between Norway and Sweden.
As far as I know this is a good system and not beyond our tech capabilities.
I heard Lars Karlsen on 5 live a while back who was the director of the customs agreement between the 2 contries, and he said it was achievable and the tech was there ??
Because the brexiteers don't want it!
three words...
"freedom of movement"....
which is the no no for brexiteers...."
There is another problem with the Norway model. Norway is not in the customs Union and does have a hard border with Sweden and with customs checkpoints. A Norway type solution in Northern Ireland would mean putting a border in exactly the same as the boarder that existed after Irish independence (common travel area with free movement but customs checks for goods) and it was such a border, in part, which lead to The troubles in the first place.
It's really very simple, in order to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland, both North and South have to be in the same Customs Union. The Norway/EEA model doesn't deliver that.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As I understand things to have this backstop position means that for the time it is in force we must remain in the customs union, so we must continue to enact EU legislation, and continue to contribute to the EU budget, but without the rebates we get at present or a say on how the money is spent and of course we will no longer be entitled to receive payments from the EU budget seeing as we will no longer be members of the EU. So pretty much exactly what I said 3 years ago would be the the 'best, worst' outcome if we voted to leave the EU and that Centy and others (no longer here) claimed I could not know because I was not clairvoyant and did not have a crystal ball.
So much for saving money and taking back control.
And all this pain and the pain to come so a bunch of Tory poshboys could stay in power for a few more months. What a farce!
will.... now is not the time to say "i told you so"
now is the time to watch all the brexiteers just explode amongst themsleves....
so basically CU stays, but we have no say in any rules.... and if that goes then NI will stay in CU and trade border is down the irish sea!
classic......
and roll on the election....or the 2nd vote.....
Sorry Fabio, but after nearly 3 years of being mocked and told I know nothing and understand nothing I really could not resist a little dig.
I'm with you on this. It's exactly what I said would happen too.
The only good thing about this deal is that it's better than 'no deal'. But then no deal is worse than 'no deal'.
As it stands this deal does not give us control of our borders, our money or our trade. It is the biggest humiliation and the biggest give away of sovereignty since the Norman Conquest and takes away all our control over the rules and regulations we will still have to live by. Everyone, whether originally leave or remain should oppose this deal. It's so clearly worse than the deal we currently have now as a full member of the EU.
"
Yeah the deal is bullshit. And we will be in a worse position than we are now, and we’ve walked away from the decision making table. But its still better than no deal.
Who wins out of this? Who the fuck knows. There’s every change we will still get no deal. We’re either fucked or very fucked.
I still don’t back another referendum, because nothing has changed from day one. Give or take, this has planned out exactly as expected. |
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"Oh the sheer irony of those now calling for Parliament to vote this down yet when the suggestion was put that Parliament should have oversight some 18+ month's ago were up in arms over the very thought..
Yes it's funny how things turn out. The sheer irony of Labour (and mostly remain) supporters being jubilant and smug on here after the general election when Theresa May failed to gain a majority. If she had got her majority then she could have probably forced this deal through parliament. Now those same people who were gloating on here after the general election are saying they are "feeling sorry for her" lol.
Because she didn't get a majority and she's now relying on the DUP, haha.
Do you think it's funny? I feel "sorry" that your so bitter that your gloating in the chaos!
If it wasn't for the crazy "right wing extremists " baying for A50 being triggered we wouldn't be in this mess! Leave campaign clearly had no plan and it's taken months to put something down on paper which resembles a negotiating stance! The bullshit of not wanting to show our hand was exactly that! What they are trying to do is "buy time" but the crazy right, DUP, and Labour are just going to send the country down the pan just when we need to pull together! "
No. What we need to do is kill this surrender of sovereignty and control plan and then kill BREXIT totally. It's high risk but it's the only way out of this mess.
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"As I understand things to have this backstop position means that for the time it is in force we must remain in the customs union, so we must continue to enact EU legislation, and continue to contribute to the EU budget, but without the rebates we get at present or a say on how the money is spent and of course we will no longer be entitled to receive payments from the EU budget seeing as we will no longer be members of the EU. So pretty much exactly what I said 3 years ago would be the the 'best, worst' outcome if we voted to leave the EU and that Centy and others (no longer here) claimed I could not know because I was not clairvoyant and did not have a crystal ball.
So much for saving money and taking back control.
And all this pain and the pain to come so a bunch of Tory poshboys could stay in power for a few more months. What a farce!
will.... now is not the time to say "i told you so"
now is the time to watch all the brexiteers just explode amongst themsleves....
so basically CU stays, but we have no say in any rules.... and if that goes then NI will stay in CU and trade border is down the irish sea!
classic......
and roll on the election....or the 2nd vote.....
Sorry Fabio, but after nearly 3 years of being mocked and told I know nothing and understand nothing I really could not resist a little dig.
I'm with you on this. It's exactly what I said would happen too.
The only good thing about this deal is that it's better than 'no deal'. But then no deal is worse than 'no deal'.
As it stands this deal does not give us control of our borders, our money or our trade. It is the biggest humiliation and the biggest give away of sovereignty since the Norman Conquest and takes away all our control over the rules and regulations we will still have to live by. Everyone, whether originally leave or remain should oppose this deal. It's so clearly worse than the deal we currently have now as a full member of the EU.
Facing hard facts though, no deal that the Government could have negotiated would have been anywhere near as good as the deal we currently have.
How anyone could ever think we'd get a better deal or even the same level of deal by leaving the EU astounds me."
They were lied to. Now the reality is kicking in.
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"As I understand things to have this backstop position means that for the time it is in force we must remain in the customs union, so we must continue to enact EU legislation, and continue to contribute to the EU budget, but without the rebates we get at present or a say on how the money is spent and of course we will no longer be entitled to receive payments from the EU budget seeing as we will no longer be members of the EU. So pretty much exactly what I said 3 years ago would be the the 'best, worst' outcome if we voted to leave the EU and that Centy and others (no longer here) claimed I could not know because I was not clairvoyant and did not have a crystal ball.
So much for saving money and taking back control.
And all this pain and the pain to come so a bunch of Tory poshboys could stay in power for a few more months. What a farce!
will.... now is not the time to say "i told you so"
now is the time to watch all the brexiteers just explode amongst themsleves....
so basically CU stays, but we have no say in any rules.... and if that goes then NI will stay in CU and trade border is down the irish sea!
classic......
and roll on the election....or the 2nd vote.....
Sorry Fabio, but after nearly 3 years of being mocked and told I know nothing and understand nothing I really could not resist a little dig.
I'm with you on this. It's exactly what I said would happen too.
The only good thing about this deal is that it's better than 'no deal'. But then no deal is worse than 'no deal'.
As it stands this deal does not give us control of our borders, our money or our trade. It is the biggest humiliation and the biggest give away of sovereignty since the Norman Conquest and takes away all our control over the rules and regulations we will still have to live by. Everyone, whether originally leave or remain should oppose this deal. It's so clearly worse than the deal we currently have now as a full member of the EU.
Yeah the deal is bullshit. And we will be in a worse position than we are now, and we’ve walked away from the decision making table. But its still better than no deal.
Who wins out of this? Who the fuck knows. There’s every change we will still get no deal. We’re either fucked or very fucked.
I still don’t back another referendum, because nothing has changed from day one. Give or take, this has planned out exactly as expected."
But not as sold.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As I understand things to have this backstop position means that for the time it is in force we must remain in the customs union, so we must continue to enact EU legislation, and continue to contribute to the EU budget, but without the rebates we get at present or a say on how the money is spent and of course we will no longer be entitled to receive payments from the EU budget seeing as we will no longer be members of the EU. So pretty much exactly what I said 3 years ago would be the the 'best, worst' outcome if we voted to leave the EU and that Centy and others (no longer here) claimed I could not know because I was not clairvoyant and did not have a crystal ball.
So much for saving money and taking back control.
And all this pain and the pain to come so a bunch of Tory poshboys could stay in power for a few more months. What a farce!
will.... now is not the time to say "i told you so"
now is the time to watch all the brexiteers just explode amongst themsleves....
so basically CU stays, but we have no say in any rules.... and if that goes then NI will stay in CU and trade border is down the irish sea!
classic......
and roll on the election....or the 2nd vote.....
Sorry Fabio, but after nearly 3 years of being mocked and told I know nothing and understand nothing I really could not resist a little dig.
I'm with you on this. It's exactly what I said would happen too.
The only good thing about this deal is that it's better than 'no deal'. But then no deal is worse than 'no deal'.
As it stands this deal does not give us control of our borders, our money or our trade. It is the biggest humiliation and the biggest give away of sovereignty since the Norman Conquest and takes away all our control over the rules and regulations we will still have to live by. Everyone, whether originally leave or remain should oppose this deal. It's so clearly worse than the deal we currently have now as a full member of the EU.
Yeah the deal is bullshit. And we will be in a worse position than we are now, and we’ve walked away from the decision making table. But its still better than no deal.
Who wins out of this? Who the fuck knows. There’s every change we will still get no deal. We’re either fucked or very fucked.
I still don’t back another referendum, because nothing has changed from day one. Give or take, this has planned out exactly as expected.
But not as sold.
"
We all know that leavers were sold a crock of shit, but theh had all the information then, didn’t believe it. I don’t see that they believe it now either. The polls seem to suggest no one has changed their mind.
Just look at the absolute horse shit some of them post on here. It’s mind boggling what some people believe. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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absolutely fucking hilarious that the brexcrement idiots are rubbishing the deal when they have absolutely no idea what the fucking deal is yet .... comedy gold yet again from the brexcrement |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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fosters neck will be on the block now .... her party will chef her in the back and go into mini meltdown to elect another leader ... this time, one who is an MP ... or at the very least a sitting politician instead of free loading dollop |
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"As I understand things to have this backstop position means that for the time it is in force we must remain in the customs union, so we must continue to enact EU legislation, and continue to contribute to the EU budget, but without the rebates we get at present or a say on how the money is spent and of course we will no longer be entitled to receive payments from the EU budget seeing as we will no longer be members of the EU. So pretty much exactly what I said 3 years ago would be the the 'best, worst' outcome if we voted to leave the EU and that Centy and others (no longer here) claimed I could not know because I was not clairvoyant and did not have a crystal ball.
So much for saving money and taking back control.
And all this pain and the pain to come so a bunch of Tory poshboys could stay in power for a few more months. What a farce!
will.... now is not the time to say "i told you so"
now is the time to watch all the brexiteers just explode amongst themsleves....
so basically CU stays, but we have no say in any rules.... and if that goes then NI will stay in CU and trade border is down the irish sea!
classic......
and roll on the election....or the 2nd vote.....
Sorry Fabio, but after nearly 3 years of being mocked and told I know nothing and understand nothing I really could not resist a little dig.
I'm with you on this. It's exactly what I said would happen too.
The only good thing about this deal is that it's better than 'no deal'. But then no deal is worse than 'no deal'.
As it stands this deal does not give us control of our borders, our money or our trade. It is the biggest humiliation and the biggest give away of sovereignty since the Norman Conquest and takes away all our control over the rules and regulations we will still have to live by. Everyone, whether originally leave or remain should oppose this deal. It's so clearly worse than the deal we currently have now as a full member of the EU.
"
This shambles is what you get when you allow the lunatics to run the asylum. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Woe is me, ‘‘tis the end of the world you know. We are leaving the EU and there is nowt we can do about it but cry. Big big crocodile tears. Why oh why were the uneducated masses allowed a say in this? They should have restricted the referendum to Guardian readers only. Woe is me, woe is me.
It’s all your fault!
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Woe is me, ‘‘tis the end of the world you know. We are leaving the EU and there is nowt we can do about it but cry. Big big crocodile tears. Why oh why were the uneducated masses allowed a say in this? They should have restricted the referendum to Guardian readers only. Woe is me, woe is me.
It’s all your fault!
"
Is that the best you can offer?
You were promised everything, but when it comes to the crunch, your not going to get anywhere near to what you were promised.
Of course you are correct, we leave 29/3/19 - but the question is when will we try and join again? My guess is within 5 years! |
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"Woe is me, ‘‘tis the end of the world you know. We are leaving the EU and there is nowt we can do about it but cry. Big big crocodile tears. Why oh why were the uneducated masses allowed a say in this? They should have restricted the referendum to Guardian readers only. Woe is me, woe is me.
It’s all your fault!
Is that the best you can offer?
You were promised everything, but when it comes to the crunch, your not going to get anywhere near to what you were promised.
Of course you are correct, we leave 29/3/19 - but the question is when will we try and join again? My guess is within 5 years!"
Dream on, the EU won't last another 5 years! The trend has been heading towards its collapse for some time now, you're just too blind to see it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Woe is me, ‘‘tis the end of the world you know. We are leaving the EU and there is nowt we can do about it but cry. Big big crocodile tears. Why oh why were the uneducated masses allowed a say in this? They should have restricted the referendum to Guardian readers only. Woe is me, woe is me.
It’s all your fault!
Is that the best you can offer?
You were promised everything, but when it comes to the crunch, your not going to get anywhere near to what you were promised.
Of course you are correct, we leave 29/3/19 - but the question is when will we try and join again? My guess is within 5 years!
Dream on, the EU won't last another 5 years! The trend has been heading towards its collapse for some time now, you're just too blind to see it. "
Do you want a bet on that? |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"Woe is me, ‘‘tis the end of the world you know. We are leaving the EU and there is nowt we can do about it but cry. Big big crocodile tears. Why oh why were the uneducated masses allowed a say in this? They should have restricted the referendum to Guardian readers only. Woe is me, woe is me.
It’s all your fault!
Is that the best you can offer?
You were promised everything, but when it comes to the crunch, your not going to get anywhere near to what you were promised.
Of course you are correct, we leave 29/3/19 - but the question is when will we try and join again? My guess is within 5 years!"
See this is the bit that utterly baffles me. Remain voters are rightly pissed off with this from the start as it is not what they wanted for their country. But leave voters? I just don’t get it. They were promised a moon on a stick and now looks pretty much like no deal is the only realistic option. I can’t beleive anyone will say they went to the ballot and voted for no deal. Especially after they all say they know what they were voting for and were repeatedly told the tales of the sunny uplands.
I just don’t get it.
-Matt |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Woe is me, ‘‘tis the end of the world you know. We are leaving the EU and there is nowt we can do about it but cry. Big big crocodile tears. Why oh why were the uneducated masses allowed a say in this? They should have restricted the referendum to Guardian readers only. Woe is me, woe is me.
It’s all your fault!
Is that the best you can offer?
You were promised everything, but when it comes to the crunch, your not going to get anywhere near to what you were promised.
Of course you are correct, we leave 29/3/19 - but the question is when will we try and join again? My guess is within 5 years!
See this is the bit that utterly baffles me. Remain voters are rightly pissed off with this from the start as it is not what they wanted for their country. But leave voters? I just don’t get it. They were promised a moon on a stick and now looks pretty much like no deal is the only realistic option. I can’t beleive anyone will say they went to the ballot and voted for no deal. Especially after they all say they know what they were voting for and were repeatedly told the tales of the sunny uplands.
I just don’t get it.
-Matt"
But arn’t the government blocking any rerunning of the vote? And so are the ones |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If I was a labour MP I would have to vote for this deal. Their position that it is a bad deal is just silly as it has satisfied all their red lines LOL.
We stay in the custom union, single market and retain freedom of movement. We stay defacto in the EU. What is there not to like about it LOL.
They'd just be voting against it for political reasons rather than economic ones as the markets are showing, this actually in the short term is a good deal for the British economy. The can is well and truly kicked into the long grass for another couple of years.
All they have to do is wait for another couple of years and they'd be guaranteed a general election win. Yeah right. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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But like the tories there’s the conflict of the ideological position on Europe versus party. A leave labour MP can essentially vote for something they don’t believe in to secure power, which is the same position as JRM and his conservative pals. Which is more important ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Many leavers would prefer a hard no deal BREXIT anyway. Just walk away and everything will be just fine.
How Northern Ireland is handled they don't care, Northern Ireland is just an irritation that is being used as project fear to stop BREXIT.
Fuck Northern Ireland is basically the leavers opinion because unless I'm seriously wrong, no leave MP has come up with a credible border solution for any form of BREXIT regarding NI, nevermind a hard fuck off we're going BREXIT scenario.
But if May's plan is voted down in Parliament then I think it's a total vote down for BREXIT as a whole. |
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"Woe is me, ‘‘tis the end of the world you know. We are leaving the EU and there is nowt we can do about it but cry. Big big crocodile tears. Why oh why were the uneducated masses allowed a say in this? They should have restricted the referendum to Guardian readers only. Woe is me, woe is me.
It’s all your fault!
Is that the best you can offer?
You were promised everything, but when it comes to the crunch, your not going to get anywhere near to what you were promised.
Of course you are correct, we leave 29/3/19 - but the question is when will we try and join again? My guess is within 5 years!
Dream on, the EU won't last another 5 years! The trend has been heading towards its collapse for some time now, you're just too blind to see it. "
5 years? Seriously? That's close to impossible.There is no logic in your statement |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yes but I have just seen the shadow transport spokeswoman say that for economic, jobs, social and working rights that they have to vote against it. My argument is why as it surely satisfies their red lines. They are talking double speak. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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What I'm saying really is surely they should just come out and say " hey do you know what, The Tories are wrong and we want to stay in the EU", instead what they really want is us to fall out and JC can step in to save the UK". They'll have total control over the lever of economics to do whatever they want as we'll be outside EU economic sanctions. We can merrily trot off on our path to socialist Nirvana and they can totally blame the tories for it for the next 10 years if it all goes wrong.
That is their agenda. It's not workers rights, jobs and economy at all. It is socialist dogma driven and a burning desire to prove that they are right. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
You cannot have free access to the single market, while at the same time saying you refuse to be bound by the rules of that market.
This is the idiotic position of the leavers, a lie they have foisted on the country for years - that we’re British, we can do whatever we want.
Plenty on here who have swallowed their nationalistic bullshit.
The most economically advantageous option for the UK always was to remain in the EU. That option has been removed, so the question is about the least worst alternative.
Your choice depends on whether the economy or ideology is more important, whether independence must be secured at any price to the economy.
It is noticeable that those pursuing the latter course are the ones least likely to pay that price personally. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What I'm saying really is surely they should just come out and say " hey do you know what, The Tories are wrong and we want to stay in the EU", instead what they really want is us to fall out and JC can step in to save the UK". They'll have total control over the lever of economics to do whatever they want as we'll be outside EU economic sanctions. We can merrily trot off on our path to socialist Nirvana and they can totally blame the tories for it for the next 10 years if it all goes wrong.
That is their agenda. It's not workers rights, jobs and economy at all. It is socialist dogma driven and a burning desire to prove that they are right."
Agree with you!
Is it not the duty of MP's to put the country 1st not their party? We clearly need more time to get a good trade deal - unfortunately this is the only way to achieve it.
I think there will be a witch hunt of those who "sold" brexit with lies either by de-selection or failure at the next election. We will have a good idea of how it's going at the next election. |
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We still don't know what the full details of the deal are but, from the headlines we know so far this is how it stacks up against Labour's 6 tests.
1. Does it ensure a strong and collaborative future relationship with the EU?
Mostly yes.
2. Does it deliver the “exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union?
No. We will no longer have the benefit of having a say over the rules we will still have to obey.
3. Does it ensure the fair management of migration in the interests of the economy and communities?
No.
4. Does it defend rights and protections and prevent a race to the bottom?
It's hard to say.
5. Does it protect national security and our capacity to tackle cross-border crime?
We don't know the details on this yet.
6. Does it deliver for all regions and nations of the UK?
No. It potentially leaves Northern Ireland (and possibly the whole UK) under permanent regulatory control of the EU with no say what so ever forever.
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Be interesting to test it against: does it control eu migration and does it make us sovereign (sic)
If so, it’s a brexit success, no ?
"
well since the figures for the amount of eu workers coming into the UK are the lowest for the best part of 20 yrs, you could argue that the threat of brexit has already done the job.....
from the FT yesterday....
"The number of EU nationals working in the UK dropped in the third quarter of the year at the fastest rate since records began, as workers from central and eastern European countries stayed away.
According to the latest labour market statistics published by the Office for National Statistics on Tuesday, there were 132,000 fewer EU nationals working in the UK than a year earlier, bringing the total to 2.25m. This was the steepest annual drop in the number of workers from Europe since the statistical agency began keeping track in 1997"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Be interesting to test it against: does it control eu migration and does it make us sovereign (sic)
If so, it’s a brexit success, no ?
well since the figures for the amount of eu workers coming into the UK are the lowest for the best part of 20 yrs, you could argue that the threat of brexit has already done the job.....
from the FT yesterday....
"The number of EU nationals working in the UK dropped in the third quarter of the year at the fastest rate since records began, as workers from central and eastern European countries stayed away.
According to the latest labour market statistics published by the Office for National Statistics on Tuesday, there were 132,000 fewer EU nationals working in the UK than a year earlier, bringing the total to 2.25m. This was the steepest annual drop in the number of workers from Europe since the statistical agency began keeping track in 1997"
"
Yep and it's having a healthy impact on wage growth too isn't it ? |
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"Many leavers would prefer a hard no deal BREXIT anyway. Just walk away and everything will be just fine.
How Northern Ireland is handled they don't care, Northern Ireland is just an irritation that is being used as project fear to stop BREXIT.
Fuck Northern Ireland is basically the leavers opinion because unless I'm seriously wrong, no leave MP has come up with a credible border solution for any form of BREXIT regarding NI, nevermind a hard fuck off we're going BREXIT scenario.
But if May's plan is voted down in Parliament then I think it's a total vote down for BREXIT as a whole."
I'd prefer a hard no deal brexit compared to Theresa May's Chequers plan. At least a hard no deal brexit would deliver what the Leave campaign promised on which is an end to free movement of people, we immediately leave the single market and the customs union and are immediately free to do our own trade deals. We also save £40 billion on a pointless divorce bill. We immediately free ourselves from the jurisdiction of the European Court of justice and reclaim our full sovereignty. We also make savings of around £13 billion a year as we no longer pay an EU membership fee. There may be some short term disruption to it but I don't think it will be anywhere as bad as the over the top scaremongering remoaners put about and in the long term we'll be better off with a complete clean break now. This is why I hope Theresa May's plan will be voted down in parliament and we can exit with no deal in March.
As for northern Ireland and the border it has been weaponised by remainers opposed to Brexit and the issue blown up out of all proportion by the EU and remain activists/campaigners. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Many leavers would prefer a hard no deal BREXIT anyway. Just walk away and everything will be just fine.
How Northern Ireland is handled they don't care, Northern Ireland is just an irritation that is being used as project fear to stop BREXIT.
Fuck Northern Ireland is basically the leavers opinion because unless I'm seriously wrong, no leave MP has come up with a credible border solution for any form of BREXIT regarding NI, nevermind a hard fuck off we're going BREXIT scenario.
But if May's plan is voted down in Parliament then I think it's a total vote down for BREXIT as a whole.
I'd prefer a hard no deal brexit compared to Theresa May's Chequers plan. At least a hard no deal brexit would deliver what the Leave campaign promised on which is an end to free movement of people, we immediately leave the single market and the customs union and are immediately free to do our own trade deals. We also save £40 billion on a pointless divorce bill. We immediately free ourselves from the jurisdiction of the European Court of justice and reclaim our full sovereignty. We also make savings of around £13 billion a year as we no longer pay an EU membership fee. There may be some short term disruption to it but I don't think it will be anywhere as bad as the over the top scaremongering remoaners put about and in the long term we'll be better off with a complete clean break now. This is why I hope Theresa May's plan will be voted down in parliament and we can exit with no deal in March.
As for northern Ireland and the border it has been weaponised by remainers opposed to Brexit and the issue blown up out of all proportion by the EU and remain activists/campaigners. "
You clearly know nothing about contract law! If you think there will be nothing to pay your being naive!
Regarding Northern Ireland then then just break the GFA and all the consequences that may occur!
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Many leavers would prefer a hard no deal BREXIT anyway. Just walk away and everything will be just fine.
How Northern Ireland is handled they don't care, Northern Ireland is just an irritation that is being used as project fear to stop BREXIT.
Fuck Northern Ireland is basically the leavers opinion because unless I'm seriously wrong, no leave MP has come up with a credible border solution for any form of BREXIT regarding NI, nevermind a hard fuck off we're going BREXIT scenario.
But if May's plan is voted down in Parliament then I think it's a total vote down for BREXIT as a whole.
I'd prefer a hard no deal brexit compared to Theresa May's Chequers plan. At least a hard no deal brexit would deliver what the Leave campaign promised on which is an end to free movement of people, we immediately leave the single market and the customs union and are immediately free to do our own trade deals. We also save £40 billion on a pointless divorce bill. We immediately free ourselves from the jurisdiction of the European Court of justice and reclaim our full sovereignty. We also make savings of around £13 billion a year as we no longer pay an EU membership fee. There may be some short term disruption to it but I don't think it will be anywhere as bad as the over the top scaremongering remoaners put about and in the long term we'll be better off with a complete clean break now. This is why I hope Theresa May's plan will be voted down in parliament and we can exit with no deal in March.
As for northern Ireland and the border it has been weaponised by remainers opposed to Brexit and the issue blown up out of all proportion by the EU and remain activists/campaigners. "
We all hope that this pie in the sky thinking will come true. But as discussed at length, only you, and one or two other individuals think this will end well. Even your fellow leavers on here abandoned any arguments that Brexit, and especially a no deal Brexit, will be good for the uk and have just fallen back on some of the catchphrases, which you also use, such as immigration, and sovereignty. Neither of which are genuine issues. They’re just smoke screens to distract the easily lead people from any real problems in today’s society.
I do admire your stubbornness and utter unwillingness to bend or temper your views despite the overwhelming tidal wave of information that contradicts your Brexit dogma. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Many leavers would prefer a hard no deal BREXIT anyway. Just walk away and everything will be just fine.
How Northern Ireland is handled they don't care, Northern Ireland is just an irritation that is being used as project fear to stop BREXIT.
Fuck Northern Ireland is basically the leavers opinion because unless I'm seriously wrong, no leave MP has come up with a credible border solution for any form of BREXIT regarding NI, nevermind a hard fuck off we're going BREXIT scenario.
But if May's plan is voted down in Parliament then I think it's a total vote down for BREXIT as a whole.
I'd prefer a hard no deal brexit compared to Theresa May's Chequers plan. At least a hard no deal brexit would deliver what the Leave campaign promised on which is an end to free movement of people, we immediately leave the single market and the customs union and are immediately free to do our own trade deals. We also save £40 billion on a pointless divorce bill. We immediately free ourselves from the jurisdiction of the European Court of justice and reclaim our full sovereignty. We also make savings of around £13 billion a year as we no longer pay an EU membership fee. There may be some short term disruption to it but I don't think it will be anywhere as bad as the over the top scaremongering remoaners put about and in the long term we'll be better off with a complete clean break now. This is why I hope Theresa May's plan will be voted down in parliament and we can exit with no deal in March.
As for northern Ireland and the border it has been weaponised by remainers opposed to Brexit and the issue blown up out of all proportion by the EU and remain activists/campaigners. "
Astounding how you can be so single minded about this....do you really have no concerns about Northern Ireland? More importantly, the waving of the savings carrot has never stood up to inspection as we are tied into long standing legal agreements which we will have to honour. A divorce is never free and despite the arguments, rational or otherwise of the leavers there is always a price to pay and that would have been the case whether the vote was 51 or 99 per cent in favour of leaving. The only thing I know is that the lack of consensus will make us weaker and poorer as a country and that the leavers dreams of free market empires are nonsensical at best and fool hardy at worst. Maybe that’s the difference between patriotism and nationalism? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Many leavers would prefer a hard no deal BREXIT anyway. Just walk away and everything will be just fine.
How Northern Ireland is handled they don't care, Northern Ireland is just an irritation that is being used as project fear to stop BREXIT.
Fuck Northern Ireland is basically the leavers opinion because unless I'm seriously wrong, no leave MP has come up with a credible border solution for any form of BREXIT regarding NI, nevermind a hard fuck off we're going BREXIT scenario.
But if May's plan is voted down in Parliament then I think it's a total vote down for BREXIT as a whole.
I'd prefer a hard no deal brexit compared to Theresa May's Chequers plan. At least a hard no deal brexit would deliver what the Leave campaign promised on which is an end to free movement of people, we immediately leave the single market and the customs union and are immediately free to do our own trade deals. We also save £40 billion on a pointless divorce bill. We immediately free ourselves from the jurisdiction of the European Court of justice and reclaim our full sovereignty. We also make savings of around £13 billion a year as we no longer pay an EU membership fee. There may be some short term disruption to it but I don't think it will be anywhere as bad as the over the top scaremongering remoaners put about and in the long term we'll be better off with a complete clean break now. This is why I hope Theresa May's plan will be voted down in parliament and we can exit with no deal in March.
As for northern Ireland and the border it has been weaponised by remainers opposed to Brexit and the issue blown up out of all proportion by the EU and remain activists/campaigners.
Astounding how you can be so single minded about this....do you really have no concerns about Northern Ireland? More importantly, the waving of the savings carrot has never stood up to inspection as we are tied into long standing legal agreements which we will have to honour. A divorce is never free and despite the arguments, rational or otherwise of the leavers there is always a price to pay and that would have been the case whether the vote was 51 or 99 per cent in favour of leaving. The only thing I know is that the lack of consensus will make us weaker and poorer as a country and that the leavers dreams of free market empires are nonsensical at best and fool hardy at worst. Maybe that’s the difference between patriotism and nationalism?"
So the referendum said:
Should the UK remain in the EU
Or leave the EU
The question is that the UK will no longer be a member of the EU - so delivered on the referendum - agreed ?
Leave will say it's leaving the single market and customs union ( not stated on the form).
Remain will say leave cheated that the referendum was advisory.
So there is the quandary!
For the record it might get through the cabinet - we will know soon enough! Parliament probably won't vote for it (if it gets that far).
Ultimately we are seeing the end of TM and probably the Tory party because if the Tories vote their own government down (confidence vote) it will be a bitter end. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Arguing for a no-deal exit is like throwing yourself off a cliff and hoping there is a safety net at the bottom.
It is reckless and verging on suicidal.
Where is the plan, the schedule for all the infrastructure, systems and services that need to be put in place by the state and by business to “go it alone”?
All of it done by March 29 next year.
There isn’t one. There never was one.
The recklessness of these extremists is beyond belief.
A managed, phased withdrawal will minimise the dislocation. The alternative is absolute chaos and disintegration. |
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"Woe is me, ‘‘tis the end of the world you know. We are leaving the EU and there is nowt we can do about it but cry. Big big crocodile tears. Why oh why were the uneducated masses allowed a say in this? They should have restricted the referendum to Guardian readers only. Woe is me, woe is me.
It’s all your fault!
Is that the best you can offer?
You were promised everything, but when it comes to the crunch, your not going to get anywhere near to what you were promised.
Of course you are correct, we leave 29/3/19 - but the question is when will we try and join again? My guess is within 5 years!
Dream on, the EU won't last another 5 years! The trend has been heading towards its collapse for some time now, you're just too blind to see it. "
That's wishful thinking and ranks with the utterly ridiculous "have our cake and eat it too" deal we were promised. Delusion on a grand scale |
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"What I'm saying really is surely they should just come out and say " hey do you know what, The Tories are wrong and we want to stay in the EU", instead what they really want is us to fall out and JC can step in to save the UK". They'll have total control over the lever of economics to do whatever they want as we'll be outside EU economic sanctions. We can merrily trot off on our path to socialist Nirvana and they can totally blame the tories for it for the next 10 years if it all goes wrong.
That is their agenda. It's not workers rights, jobs and economy at all. It is socialist dogma driven and a burning desire to prove that they are right."
The deal as leaked so far clearly doesnt meet the 6 tests that Starmer outlined. Therefore your argument is built on a false premise |
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"Many leavers would prefer a hard no deal BREXIT anyway. Just walk away and everything will be just fine.
How Northern Ireland is handled they don't care, Northern Ireland is just an irritation that is being used as project fear to stop BREXIT.
Fuck Northern Ireland is basically the leavers opinion because unless I'm seriously wrong, no leave MP has come up with a credible border solution for any form of BREXIT regarding NI, nevermind a hard fuck off we're going BREXIT scenario.
But if May's plan is voted down in Parliament then I think it's a total vote down for BREXIT as a whole.
I'd prefer a hard no deal brexit compared to Theresa May's Chequers plan. At least a hard no deal brexit would deliver what the Leave campaign promised on which is an end to free movement of people, we immediately leave the single market and the customs union and are immediately free to do our own trade deals. We also save £40 billion on a pointless divorce bill. We immediately free ourselves from the jurisdiction of the European Court of justice and reclaim our full sovereignty. We also make savings of around £13 billion a year as we no longer pay an EU membership fee. There may be some short term disruption to it but I don't think it will be anywhere as bad as the over the top scaremongering remoaners put about and in the long term we'll be better off with a complete clean break now. This is why I hope Theresa May's plan will be voted down in parliament and we can exit with no deal in March.
As for northern Ireland and the border it has been weaponised by remainers opposed to Brexit and the issue blown up out of all proportion by the EU and remain activists/campaigners. "
Every time you post about a no deal Brexit you show you have no grasp of economics whatsoever, have no clue about Ireland and no idea about trade. Apart from that...... |
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"Many leavers would prefer a hard no deal BREXIT anyway. Just walk away and everything will be just fine.
How Northern Ireland is handled they don't care, Northern Ireland is just an irritation that is being used as project fear to stop BREXIT.
Fuck Northern Ireland is basically the leavers opinion because unless I'm seriously wrong, no leave MP has come up with a credible border solution for any form of BREXIT regarding NI, nevermind a hard fuck off we're going BREXIT scenario.
But if May's plan is voted down in Parliament then I think it's a total vote down for BREXIT as a whole.
I'd prefer a hard no deal brexit compared to Theresa May's Chequers plan. At least a hard no deal brexit would deliver what the Leave campaign promised on which is an end to free movement of people, we immediately leave the single market and the customs union and are immediately free to do our own trade deals. We also save £40 billion on a pointless divorce bill. We immediately free ourselves from the jurisdiction of the European Court of justice and reclaim our full sovereignty. We also make savings of around £13 billion a year as we no longer pay an EU membership fee. There may be some short term disruption to it but I don't think it will be anywhere as bad as the over the top scaremongering remoaners put about and in the long term we'll be better off with a complete clean break now. This is why I hope Theresa May's plan will be voted down in parliament and we can exit with no deal in March.
As for northern Ireland and the border it has been weaponised by remainers opposed to Brexit and the issue blown up out of all proportion by the EU and remain activists/campaigners.
You clearly know nothing about contract law! If you think there will be nothing to pay your being naive!
Regarding Northern Ireland then then just break the GFA and all the consequences that may occur!
"
The House of Lords is full of people who know all there is to know about contract law, and it was the House of Lords who said in the event of no deal then legally we don't owe the EU a single penny! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I'd prefer a hard no deal brexit compared to Theresa May's Chequers plan. At least a hard no deal brexit would deliver what the Leave campaign promised on which is an end to free movement of people, we immediately leave the single market and the customs union and are immediately free to do our own trade deals. We also save £40 billion on a pointless divorce bill. We immediately free ourselves from the jurisdiction of the European Court of justice and reclaim our full sovereignty. We also make savings of around £13 billion a year as we no longer pay an EU membership fee. There may be some short term disruption to it but I don't think it will be anywhere as bad as the over the top scaremongering remoaners put about and in the long term we'll be better off with a complete clean break now. This is why I hope Theresa May's plan will be voted down in parliament and we can exit with no deal in March.
As for northern Ireland and the border it has been weaponised by remainers opposed to Brexit and the issue blown up out of all proportion by the EU and remain activists/campaigners. "
Ok that's fair enough but just one honest question I'd be interested to hear your answer to Centaur, you say Northern Ireland has been weaponised by remainers, that means there must be a easy simple solution to the NI border that doesn't contravene the GFA, and what the DUP, residents of NI will be happy with...what is that easy solution Centaur ?
Because as far as I can tell, it's only Northern Ireland that is a stumbling block. |
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"5 years? Seriously? That's close to impossible.There is no logic in your statement "
I can see us having 'brexit buyers regret' much sooner than that. We will know how the world will treat an economically independent and unprotected (the EU by its nature and market size gives all members protection from economic attack) UK within 18 months to 2 years. It will take another 2 to 3 years of economic collapse for the most rabid of nationalists (except the breximorons who don't care the cost its brexit at any price) to admit they were wrong and for the country unite and want readmission to the EU. The real question is will the EU want us back? |
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Only 17m of a population of 67m voted for Brexit, roughly 50m did not vote for Brexit. It is patently clear that our best option by a mile (or 1.609km) is to stay in the EU. The padt 2 1/2 years have been farcical, the next 25 would be painful under any Brexit.
Time for another vote - and this time it should not be advisory... |
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"Only 17m of a population of 67m voted for Brexit, roughly 50m did not vote for Brexit. It is patently clear that our best option by a mile (or 1.609km) is to stay in the EU. The padt 2 1/2 years have been farcical, the next 25 would be painful under any Brexit.
Time for another vote - and this time it should not be advisory..."
only 17 million ? Well how many voted remain then |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Only 17m of a population of 67m voted for Brexit, roughly 50m did not vote for Brexit. It is patently clear that our best option by a mile (or 1.609km) is to stay in the EU. The padt 2 1/2 years have been farcical, the next 25 would be painful under any Brexit.
Time for another vote - and this time it should not be advisory..."
We knew back then that Brexit would be a massive bag of shit. But people voted for it anyway. I don’t see how anything has changed.
Just look at the horse shit people on here post as evidence for Brexit at any cost mentality.
Some don’t even seem to think we will some how benefit from all this. Unbelievable.
It there was an option on the ballot to nuke the country to stop foreigners coming in, some people would tick that box.
Refarendums clearly don’t work. Politicians need to do their job and stop the madness. But alas, they’re all cowards and won’t. |
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Totally agrre with you there - it is about timethe Labour party grew a pair and came down on the side of a vote. At the moment I can’t see any party to vote for as they are all useless - although the governing party is more useless than any other at the moment  |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"As you can tell, my point is that there is no clear mandate for Brexit, so we should clearly stay put. "
Your post reminds me of the referendum that took place in Scotland in 1979 on whether power should be devolved to an elected assembly.
The Labour Government had already passed the legislation, under pressure from the SNP, and decided the people ought to say they wanted it.
An amendment at the committee stage found its way into the legislation - that at least 40 per cent of the electorate needed to vote Yes for it to be enacted.
A majority did vote yes - 52 to 48 per cent.
This translated into 32.9 % of the total electorate, so it did not meet the 40 % threshold and the legislation was dropped.
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"mrs maygabe got torn some new arseholes at PMQ's ... and then she got them handed to her pmsl "
Good to see she's got her eyes on the bigger picture...
"Kwasi Kwarteng asks about a 100-year-old bellringer in his constituency, believed to be the oldest in the world. May says this is a considerable record and wishes the constituent happy birthday"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Many leavers would prefer a hard no deal BREXIT anyway. Just walk away and everything will be just fine.
How Northern Ireland is handled they don't care, Northern Ireland is just an irritation that is being used as project fear to stop BREXIT.
Fuck Northern Ireland is basically the leavers opinion because unless I'm seriously wrong, no leave MP has come up with a credible border solution for any form of BREXIT regarding NI, nevermind a hard fuck off we're going BREXIT scenario.
But if May's plan is voted down in Parliament then I think it's a total vote down for BREXIT as a whole.
I'd prefer a hard no deal brexit compared to Theresa May's Chequers plan. At least a hard no deal brexit would deliver what the Leave campaign promised on which is an end to free movement of people, we immediately leave the single market and the customs union and are immediately free to do our own trade deals. We also save £40 billion on a pointless divorce bill. We immediately free ourselves from the jurisdiction of the European Court of justice and reclaim our full sovereignty. We also make savings of around £13 billion a year as we no longer pay an EU membership fee. There may be some short term disruption to it but I don't think it will be anywhere as bad as the over the top scaremongering remoaners put about and in the long term we'll be better off with a complete clean break now. This is why I hope Theresa May's plan will be voted down in parliament and we can exit with no deal in March.
As for northern Ireland and the border it has been weaponised by remainers opposed to Brexit and the issue blown up out of all proportion by the EU and remain activists/campaigners.
You clearly know nothing about contract law! If you think there will be nothing to pay your being naive!
Regarding Northern Ireland then then just break the GFA and all the consequences that may occur!
The House of Lords is full of people who know all there is to know about contract law, and it was the House of Lords who said in the event of no deal then legally we don't owe the EU a single penny!"
Just because they are in the House of Lords doesn't mean they are necessarily qualified! Having studied contract law I do have probably have a better knowledge than quite a few of them! However, I agree that I am unaware if the UK government when it committed to the EU budget for the agreed term if they were required to sign a contract, however, there certainly would have been a verbal contract which is still enforceable! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Totally agrre with you there - it is about timethe Labour party grew a pair and came down on the side of a vote. At the moment I can’t see any party to vote for as they are all useless - although the governing party is more useless than any other at the moment "
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Many leavers would prefer a hard no deal BREXIT anyway. Just walk away and everything will be just fine.
How Northern Ireland is handled they don't care, Northern Ireland is just an irritation that is being used as project fear to stop BREXIT.
Fuck Northern Ireland is basically the leavers opinion because unless I'm seriously wrong, no leave MP has come up with a credible border solution for any form of BREXIT regarding NI, nevermind a hard fuck off we're going BREXIT scenario.
But if May's plan is voted down in Parliament then I think it's a total vote down for BREXIT as a whole.
I'd prefer a hard no deal brexit compared to Theresa May's Chequers plan. At least a hard no deal brexit would deliver what the Leave campaign promised on which is an end to free movement of people, we immediately leave the single market and the customs union and are immediately free to do our own trade deals. We also save £40 billion on a pointless divorce bill. We immediately free ourselves from the jurisdiction of the European Court of justice and reclaim our full sovereignty. We also make savings of around £13 billion a year as we no longer pay an EU membership fee. There may be some short term disruption to it but I don't think it will be anywhere as bad as the over the top scaremongering remoaners put about and in the long term we'll be better off with a complete clean break now. This is why I hope Theresa May's plan will be voted down in parliament and we can exit with no deal in March.
As for northern Ireland and the border it has been weaponised by remainers opposed to Brexit and the issue blown up out of all proportion by the EU and remain activists/campaigners.
You clearly know nothing about contract law! If you think there will be nothing to pay your being naive!
Regarding Northern Ireland then then just break the GFA and all the consequences that may occur!
The House of Lords is full of people who know all there is to know about contract law, and it was the House of Lords who said in the event of no deal then legally we don't owe the EU a single penny!"
In the interest of balance the HOL committee did say there were competing interpretations so it is not as cut and dry as made out. Their legal opinion (suspect this was bought in, not the lords themselves) is we do not fall under ECJ and so there is no route to claim. A bit like reneging on a loan because you move country.
If this is the correct interpretation (there’s a question of if there is a timestop on ECJ for liabilities accrued when under its jurisdiction) i wonder how other countries entering into a contract would look at us. Our creditworthiness could be doubted. So even if we could squirm out, we still need to decide if we should.
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
The House of Lords is full of people who know all there is to know about contract law, and it was the House of Lords who said in the event of no deal then legally we don't owe the EU a single penny!
In the interest of balance the HOL committee did say there were competing interpretations so it is not as cut and dry as made out. Their legal opinion (suspect this was bought in, not the lords themselves) is we do not fall under ECJ and so there is no route to claim. A bit like reneging on a loan because you move country.
If this is the correct interpretation (there’s a question of if there is a timestop on ECJ for liabilities accrued when under its jurisdiction) i wonder how other countries entering into a contract would look at us. Our creditworthiness could be doubted. So even if we could squirm out, we still need to decide if we should.
"
your national credit rating would be shot!... its the same arguement that was made in the indy ref when scots nats were threatening not to take their share of the UK debt if they had won....
if you don't pay what you are legally bound oblieged to for things you sign up for... then why would any institution lend you any money?
lets take infrustructure projects! the bond yields would have to go up to attract investors, which means you are having to pay more to get less!!
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"Their legal opinion (suspect this was bought in, not the lords themselves) is we do not fall under ECJ and so there is no route to claim. A bit like reneging on a loan because you move country.
"
The International Court of Justice exists to settle disputes between states.
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"
I'd prefer a hard no deal brexit compared to Theresa May's Chequers plan. At least a hard no deal brexit would deliver what the Leave campaign promised on which is an end to free movement of people, we immediately leave the single market and the customs union and are immediately free to do our own trade deals. We also save £40 billion on a pointless divorce bill. We immediately free ourselves from the jurisdiction of the European Court of justice and reclaim our full sovereignty. We also make savings of around £13 billion a year as we no longer pay an EU membership fee. There may be some short term disruption to it but I don't think it will be anywhere as bad as the over the top scaremongering remoaners put about and in the long term we'll be better off with a complete clean break now. This is why I hope Theresa May's plan will be voted down in parliament and we can exit with no deal in March.
As for northern Ireland and the border it has been weaponised by remainers opposed to Brexit and the issue blown up out of all proportion by the EU and remain activists/campaigners.
Ok that's fair enough but just one honest question I'd be interested to hear your answer to Centaur, you say Northern Ireland has been weaponised by remainers, that means there must be a easy simple solution to the NI border that doesn't contravene the GFA, and what the DUP, residents of NI will be happy with...what is that easy solution Centaur ?
Because as far as I can tell, it's only Northern Ireland that is a stumbling block."
The ERG already gave clear answers to that at the press conference they did several weeks ago. The ERG specifically looked at the problems that the EU themselves had raised around the border and tailored solutions to the problems which the EU were concerned about.
People on here were questioning whether or not the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules and as Unleashed Kraken pointed out with a link it appears the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Cabinet has backed the Brexit deal. DUP already up in arms.
Interesting to see how this plays out. There'll probably be a vote of no confidence this week that will fail."
barnier making a statement at 8pm....
may is going to see arlene foster at 8.30pm
ERG trying to get no confidence letters in to force some sort of leadership contest |
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"Cabinet has backed the Brexit deal. DUP already up in arms.
Interesting to see how this plays out. There'll probably be a vote of no confidence this week that will fail."
Getting Cabinet to agree is one thing, getting Parliament to vote for it is another matter entirely. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
The ERG already gave clear answers to that at the press conference they did several weeks ago. The ERG specifically looked at the problems that the EU themselves had raised around the border and tailored solutions to the problems which the EU were concerned about.
People on here were questioning whether or not the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules and as Unleashed Kraken pointed out with a link it appears the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules. "
actually what happened in that ERG presser that you keep referencing was that it could be done by some sort of technology that doesn't exist yet..... and to not do the border checks at the actual border itself... but to do it 10-20 miles away from the border, which doesn't still deal with the fact that you will still have to do border checks!!!!!
thats why it was laughed at!!! |
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"Cabinet has backed the Brexit deal. DUP already up in arms.
Interesting to see how this plays out. There'll probably be a vote of no confidence this week that will fail.
barnier making a statement at 8pm....
may is going to see arlene foster at 8.30pm
ERG trying to get no confidence letters in to force some sort of leadership contest"
DUP acquiesce on condition of TM digging a 50 foot moat between the north and south... with NO drawbridge, oh and more £££££ |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
The House of Lords is full of people who know all there is to know about contract law, and it was the House of Lords who said in the event of no deal then legally we don't owe the EU a single penny!"
That may be true Centaur but you have stated many times on here that the lords are just full of unelected old swivel eyed out of touch loons who should be removed.
Just saying.....
Anyway, when you get chance Centaur, that Northern Ireland border answer ? |
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"
The House of Lords is full of people who know all there is to know about contract law, and it was the House of Lords who said in the event of no deal then legally we don't owe the EU a single penny!
That may be true Centaur but you have stated many times on here that the lords are just full of unelected old swivel eyed out of touch loons who should be removed.
Just saying.....
Anyway, when you get chance Centaur, that Northern Ireland border answer ? "
Already answered, try scrolling back up the thread. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I'd prefer a hard no deal brexit compared to Theresa May's Chequers plan. At least a hard no deal brexit would deliver what the Leave campaign promised on which is an end to free movement of people, we immediately leave the single market and the customs union and are immediately free to do our own trade deals. We also save £40 billion on a pointless divorce bill. We immediately free ourselves from the jurisdiction of the European Court of justice and reclaim our full sovereignty. We also make savings of around £13 billion a year as we no longer pay an EU membership fee. There may be some short term disruption to it but I don't think it will be anywhere as bad as the over the top scaremongering remoaners put about and in the long term we'll be better off with a complete clean break now. This is why I hope Theresa May's plan will be voted down in parliament and we can exit with no deal in March.
As for northern Ireland and the border it has been weaponised by remainers opposed to Brexit and the issue blown up out of all proportion by the EU and remain activists/campaigners.
Ok that's fair enough but just one honest question I'd be interested to hear your answer to Centaur, you say Northern Ireland has been weaponised by remainers, that means there must be a easy simple solution to the NI border that doesn't contravene the GFA, and what the DUP, residents of NI will be happy with...what is that easy solution Centaur ?
Because as far as I can tell, it's only Northern Ireland that is a stumbling block.
The ERG already gave clear answers to that at the press conference they did several weeks ago. The ERG specifically looked at the problems that the EU themselves had raised around the border and tailored solutions to the problems which the EU were concerned about.
People on here were questioning whether or not the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules and as Unleashed Kraken pointed out with a link it appears the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules. "
was that the same article which said other countries could demand the same solution under MFN ?
There is also the question whether ERG provided solutions which answered EUs concerns... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
The House of Lords is full of people who know all there is to know about contract law, and it was the House of Lords who said in the event of no deal then legally we don't owe the EU a single penny!
That may be true Centaur but you have stated many times on here that the lords are just full of unelected old swivel eyed out of touch loons who should be removed.
Just saying.....
Anyway, when you get chance Centaur, that Northern Ireland border answer ?
Already answered, try scrolling back up the thread. "
Apologies, I missed your reply
I'll have a look at unleashed's link
The Lords don't know what their talking about though do they ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Ok, found it, read it, along with 3 or 4 news sources that report on the ERG proposal.
The ERG answers to NI....
1, Technology that doesn't exist yet.
2, The EU bending their rules just for us.
3, WTO / securing / not securing borders etc, we'd have to possibly drop all checks of other States we trade with on WTO as not to breach the Most Favoured Nations clause unless we class it as a national security issue.
So glad the ERG could sort this out so easily for everyone |
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"
The Lords don't know what their talking about though do they ? "
Well it's usually remainers who hold the House of Lords in high regard. During the EU withdrawal bill votes remainers were quoting the House of Lords all the time and believed everything they said. So if remainers believe everything the House of Lords say why wouldn't you on this? |
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"
I'd prefer a hard no deal brexit compared to Theresa May's Chequers plan. At least a hard no deal brexit would deliver what the Leave campaign promised on which is an end to free movement of people, we immediately leave the single market and the customs union and are immediately free to do our own trade deals. We also save £40 billion on a pointless divorce bill. We immediately free ourselves from the jurisdiction of the European Court of justice and reclaim our full sovereignty. We also make savings of around £13 billion a year as we no longer pay an EU membership fee. There may be some short term disruption to it but I don't think it will be anywhere as bad as the over the top scaremongering remoaners put about and in the long term we'll be better off with a complete clean break now. This is why I hope Theresa May's plan will be voted down in parliament and we can exit with no deal in March.
As for northern Ireland and the border it has been weaponised by remainers opposed to Brexit and the issue blown up out of all proportion by the EU and remain activists/campaigners.
Ok that's fair enough but just one honest question I'd be interested to hear your answer to Centaur, you say Northern Ireland has been weaponised by remainers, that means there must be a easy simple solution to the NI border that doesn't contravene the GFA, and what the DUP, residents of NI will be happy with...what is that easy solution Centaur ?
Because as far as I can tell, it's only Northern Ireland that is a stumbling block.
The ERG already gave clear answers to that at the press conference they did several weeks ago. The ERG specifically looked at the problems that the EU themselves had raised around the border and tailored solutions to the problems which the EU were concerned about.
People on here were questioning whether or not the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules and as Unleashed Kraken pointed out with a link it appears the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules. "
I think you need to read the link more carefully. The link clarified the argument as to whether to trade under WTO terms it was necessary to have secured customs borders and clearly said that it's not a legal requirement. However the document goes on to say that, while not a legal requirement it is a legal necessity if we want to avoid being sued for unfair trading by other WTO members.
In essence the customs border we have with the Irish Republic would have to be the same as the customs border we have with the rest of the EU, China or the US.
|
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"
I'd prefer a hard no deal brexit compared to Theresa May's Chequers plan. At least a hard no deal brexit would deliver what the Leave campaign promised on which is an end to free movement of people, we immediately leave the single market and the customs union and are immediately free to do our own trade deals. We also save £40 billion on a pointless divorce bill. We immediately free ourselves from the jurisdiction of the European Court of justice and reclaim our full sovereignty. We also make savings of around £13 billion a year as we no longer pay an EU membership fee. There may be some short term disruption to it but I don't think it will be anywhere as bad as the over the top scaremongering remoaners put about and in the long term we'll be better off with a complete clean break now. This is why I hope Theresa May's plan will be voted down in parliament and we can exit with no deal in March.
As for northern Ireland and the border it has been weaponised by remainers opposed to Brexit and the issue blown up out of all proportion by the EU and remain activists/campaigners.
Ok that's fair enough but just one honest question I'd be interested to hear your answer to Centaur, you say Northern Ireland has been weaponised by remainers, that means there must be a easy simple solution to the NI border that doesn't contravene the GFA, and what the DUP, residents of NI will be happy with...what is that easy solution Centaur ?
Because as far as I can tell, it's only Northern Ireland that is a stumbling block.
The ERG already gave clear answers to that at the press conference they did several weeks ago. The ERG specifically looked at the problems that the EU themselves had raised around the border and tailored solutions to the problems which the EU were concerned about.
People on here were questioning whether or not the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules and as Unleashed Kraken pointed out with a link it appears the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules.
I think you need to read the link more carefully. The link clarified the argument as to whether to trade under WTO terms it was necessary to have secured customs borders and clearly said that it's not a legal requirement. However the document goes on to say that, while not a legal requirement it is a legal necessity if we want to avoid being sued for unfair trading by other WTO members.
In essence the customs border we have with the Irish Republic would have to be the same as the customs border we have with the rest of the EU, China or the US.
"
....and as you failed to mention on the other thread and here on this one, that would also apply equally to the EU on its side of the border under WTO rules. If the EU allowed a porus border on its side then the EU could be sued for unfair trading by other WTO members.
In essence the customs border the EU have with Northern Ireland (and the UK) would have to be the same as the customs border rest of the EU has with China or the USA. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
The Lords don't know what their talking about though do they ?
Well it's usually remainers who hold the House of Lords in high regard. During the EU withdrawal bill votes remainers were quoting the House of Lords all the time and believed everything they said. So if remainers believe everything the House of Lords say why wouldn't you on this? "
Why would you though when you've been so against them if the question lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I'd prefer a hard no deal brexit compared to Theresa May's Chequers plan. At least a hard no deal brexit would deliver what the Leave campaign promised on which is an end to free movement of people, we immediately leave the single market and the customs union and are immediately free to do our own trade deals. We also save £40 billion on a pointless divorce bill. We immediately free ourselves from the jurisdiction of the European Court of justice and reclaim our full sovereignty. We also make savings of around £13 billion a year as we no longer pay an EU membership fee. There may be some short term disruption to it but I don't think it will be anywhere as bad as the over the top scaremongering remoaners put about and in the long term we'll be better off with a complete clean break now. This is why I hope Theresa May's plan will be voted down in parliament and we can exit with no deal in March.
As for northern Ireland and the border it has been weaponised by remainers opposed to Brexit and the issue blown up out of all proportion by the EU and remain activists/campaigners.
Ok that's fair enough but just one honest question I'd be interested to hear your answer to Centaur, you say Northern Ireland has been weaponised by remainers, that means there must be a easy simple solution to the NI border that doesn't contravene the GFA, and what the DUP, residents of NI will be happy with...what is that easy solution Centaur ?
Because as far as I can tell, it's only Northern Ireland that is a stumbling block.
The ERG already gave clear answers to that at the press conference they did several weeks ago. The ERG specifically looked at the problems that the EU themselves had raised around the border and tailored solutions to the problems which the EU were concerned about.
People on here were questioning whether or not the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules and as Unleashed Kraken pointed out with a link it appears the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules.
I think you need to read the link more carefully. The link clarified the argument as to whether to trade under WTO terms it was necessary to have secured customs borders and clearly said that it's not a legal requirement. However the document goes on to say that, while not a legal requirement it is a legal necessity if we want to avoid being sued for unfair trading by other WTO members.
In essence the customs border we have with the Irish Republic would have to be the same as the customs border we have with the rest of the EU, China or the US.
....and as you failed to mention on the other thread and here on this one, that would also apply equally to the EU on its side of the border under WTO rules. If the EU allowed a porus border on its side then the EU could be sued for unfair trading by other WTO members.
In essence the customs border the EU have with Northern Ireland (and the UK) would have to be the same as the customs border rest of the EU has with China or the USA. "
Exactly, and there lies the whole NI problems lol |
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"
The Lords don't know what their talking about though do they ?
Well it's usually remainers who hold the House of Lords in high regard. During the EU withdrawal bill votes remainers were quoting the House of Lords all the time and believed everything they said. So if remainers believe everything the House of Lords say why wouldn't you on this?
Why would you though when you've been so against them if the question lol"
Maybe I posted the House of Lords opinion on the divorce bill for yours and other remainers benefit. You believe everything the House of Lords say right, at least you did when they voted against the EU Withdrawal bill, lol. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
The Lords don't know what their talking about though do they ?
Well it's usually remainers who hold the House of Lords in high regard. During the EU withdrawal bill votes remainers were quoting the House of Lords all the time and believed everything they said. So if remainers believe everything the House of Lords say why wouldn't you on this?
Why would you though when you've been so against them if the question lol
Maybe I posted the House of Lords opinion on the divorce bill for yours and other remainers benefit. You believe everything the House of Lords say right, at least you did when they voted against the EU Withdrawal bill, lol. "
I've never said anything of the sort that I believe what the House Of Lords say lol
You can't help but make up lies to try and bolster your feeble arguments
It's quite a sad sight, entertaining somewhat though |
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"
The Lords don't know what their talking about though do they ?
Well it's usually remainers who hold the House of Lords in high regard. During the EU withdrawal bill votes remainers were quoting the House of Lords all the time and believed everything they said. So if remainers believe everything the House of Lords say why wouldn't you on this?
Why would you though when you've been so against them if the question lol
Maybe I posted the House of Lords opinion on the divorce bill for yours and other remainers benefit. You believe everything the House of Lords say right, at least you did when they voted against the EU Withdrawal bill, lol.
I've never said anything of the sort that I believe what the House Of Lords say lol
You can't help but make up lies to try and bolster your feeble arguments
It's quite a sad sight, entertaining somewhat though "
I was generalising you as a remainer. Remainers had their heads so far up the House of Lords arses during the EU Withdrawal bill votes they could taste what the Lords had for breakfast. |
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"
I think you need to read the link more carefully. The link clarified the argument as to whether to trade under WTO terms it was necessary to have secured customs borders and clearly said that it's not a legal requirement. However the document goes on to say that, while not a legal requirement it is a legal necessity if we want to avoid being sued for unfair trading by other WTO members.
In essence the customs border we have with the Irish Republic would have to be the same as the customs border we have with the rest of the EU, China or the US.
....and as you failed to mention on the other thread and here on this one, that would also apply equally to the EU on its side of the border under WTO rules. If the EU allowed a porus border on its side then the EU could be sued for unfair trading by other WTO members.
In essence the customs border the EU have with Northern Ireland (and the UK) would have to be the same as the customs border rest of the EU has with China or the USA.
Exactly, and there lies the whole NI problems lol"
And yet Brexiters are still trotting out the line that the EU are punishing the UK by not breaching WTO rules... |
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"
I'd prefer a hard no deal brexit compared to Theresa May's Chequers plan. At least a hard no deal brexit would deliver what the Leave campaign promised on which is an end to free movement of people, we immediately leave the single market and the customs union and are immediately free to do our own trade deals. We also save £40 billion on a pointless divorce bill. We immediately free ourselves from the jurisdiction of the European Court of justice and reclaim our full sovereignty. We also make savings of around £13 billion a year as we no longer pay an EU membership fee. There may be some short term disruption to it but I don't think it will be anywhere as bad as the over the top scaremongering remoaners put about and in the long term we'll be better off with a complete clean break now. This is why I hope Theresa May's plan will be voted down in parliament and we can exit with no deal in March.
As for northern Ireland and the border it has been weaponised by remainers opposed to Brexit and the issue blown up out of all proportion by the EU and remain activists/campaigners.
Ok that's fair enough but just one honest question I'd be interested to hear your answer to Centaur, you say Northern Ireland has been weaponised by remainers, that means there must be a easy simple solution to the NI border that doesn't contravene the GFA, and what the DUP, residents of NI will be happy with...what is that easy solution Centaur ?
Because as far as I can tell, it's only Northern Ireland that is a stumbling block.
The ERG already gave clear answers to that at the press conference they did several weeks ago. The ERG specifically looked at the problems that the EU themselves had raised around the border and tailored solutions to the problems which the EU were concerned about.
People on here were questioning whether or not the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules and as Unleashed Kraken pointed out with a link it appears the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules.
I think you need to read the link more carefully. The link clarified the argument as to whether to trade under WTO terms it was necessary to have secured customs borders and clearly said that it's not a legal requirement. However the document goes on to say that, while not a legal requirement it is a legal necessity if we want to avoid being sued for unfair trading by other WTO members.
In essence the customs border we have with the Irish Republic would have to be the same as the customs border we have with the rest of the EU, China or the US.
....and as you failed to mention on the other thread and here on this one, that would also apply equally to the EU on its side of the border under WTO rules. If the EU allowed a porus border on its side then the EU could be sued for unfair trading by other WTO members.
In essence the customs border the EU have with Northern Ireland (and the UK) would have to be the same as the customs border rest of the EU has with China or the USA. "
Well yes, of course. That's the whole problem and why the EU wants an agreed customs union/arrangement between Northern Ireland and the Republic because without it the EU cannot keep to its commitments under WTO terms and its commitments as a guarantor to the GFA.(Neither can the UK either).
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I was generalising you as a remainer. Remainers had their heads so far up the House of Lords arses during the EU Withdrawal bill votes they could taste what the Lords had for breakfast. "
Ahh, a good old generalisation, you must know by now though quite clearly that while I am a remainer I am definitely not a remoaner.
I've clearly said while I think we're better off being a member of the EU, the democratic vote was to leave, and leave we should on the terms laid out by the Government at the time of the referendum.
Yes I challenge people's ideas / theories on how they think we'll be better off leaving, leave is still what I believe we should do.
I know the PM in 2016 said a vote to leave was to leave the single market, I'm not entirely sure if leaving the Customs Union was also mentioned by the PM.
Whatever the PM said back then is how we should leave. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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But if leaving the Customs Union was also mentioned then that brings the problem of NI into play and if that's the case the Government promised something it could never deliver. |
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"
I'd prefer a hard no deal brexit compared to Theresa May's Chequers plan. At least a hard no deal brexit would deliver what the Leave campaign promised on which is an end to free movement of people, we immediately leave the single market and the customs union and are immediately free to do our own trade deals. We also save £40 billion on a pointless divorce bill. We immediately free ourselves from the jurisdiction of the European Court of justice and reclaim our full sovereignty. We also make savings of around £13 billion a year as we no longer pay an EU membership fee. There may be some short term disruption to it but I don't think it will be anywhere as bad as the over the top scaremongering remoaners put about and in the long term we'll be better off with a complete clean break now. This is why I hope Theresa May's plan will be voted down in parliament and we can exit with no deal in March.
As for northern Ireland and the border it has been weaponised by remainers opposed to Brexit and the issue blown up out of all proportion by the EU and remain activists/campaigners.
Ok that's fair enough but just one honest question I'd be interested to hear your answer to Centaur, you say Northern Ireland has been weaponised by remainers, that means there must be a easy simple solution to the NI border that doesn't contravene the GFA, and what the DUP, residents of NI will be happy with...what is that easy solution Centaur ?
Because as far as I can tell, it's only Northern Ireland that is a stumbling block.
The ERG already gave clear answers to that at the press conference they did several weeks ago. The ERG specifically looked at the problems that the EU themselves had raised around the border and tailored solutions to the problems which the EU were concerned about.
People on here were questioning whether or not the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules and as Unleashed Kraken pointed out with a link it appears the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules.
I think you need to read the link more carefully. The link clarified the argument as to whether to trade under WTO terms it was necessary to have secured customs borders and clearly said that it's not a legal requirement. However the document goes on to say that, while not a legal requirement it is a legal necessity if we want to avoid being sued for unfair trading by other WTO members.
In essence the customs border we have with the Irish Republic would have to be the same as the customs border we have with the rest of the EU, China or the US.
....and as you failed to mention on the other thread and here on this one, that would also apply equally to the EU on its side of the border under WTO rules. If the EU allowed a porus border on its side then the EU could be sued for unfair trading by other WTO members.
In essence the customs border the EU have with Northern Ireland (and the UK) would have to be the same as the customs border rest of the EU has with China or the USA.
Well yes, of course. That's the whole problem and why the EU wants an agreed customs union/arrangement between Northern Ireland and the Republic because without it the EU cannot keep to its commitments under WTO terms and its commitments as a guarantor to the GFA.(Neither can the UK either).
"
The key thing you and other remainers are missing though is we're not full members of the WTO until we've had our tariff schedule approved. If we're not even a member of the WTO then how can we break the rules? |
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"
I'd prefer a hard no deal brexit compared to Theresa May's Chequers plan. At least a hard no deal brexit would deliver what the Leave campaign promised on which is an end to free movement of people, we immediately leave the single market and the customs union and are immediately free to do our own trade deals. We also save £40 billion on a pointless divorce bill. We immediately free ourselves from the jurisdiction of the European Court of justice and reclaim our full sovereignty. We also make savings of around £13 billion a year as we no longer pay an EU membership fee. There may be some short term disruption to it but I don't think it will be anywhere as bad as the over the top scaremongering remoaners put about and in the long term we'll be better off with a complete clean break now. This is why I hope Theresa May's plan will be voted down in parliament and we can exit with no deal in March.
As for northern Ireland and the border it has been weaponised by remainers opposed to Brexit and the issue blown up out of all proportion by the EU and remain activists/campaigners.
Ok that's fair enough but just one honest question I'd be interested to hear your answer to Centaur, you say Northern Ireland has been weaponised by remainers, that means there must be a easy simple solution to the NI border that doesn't contravene the GFA, and what the DUP, residents of NI will be happy with...what is that easy solution Centaur ?
Because as far as I can tell, it's only Northern Ireland that is a stumbling block.
The ERG already gave clear answers to that at the press conference they did several weeks ago. The ERG specifically looked at the problems that the EU themselves had raised around the border and tailored solutions to the problems which the EU were concerned about.
People on here were questioning whether or not the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules and as Unleashed Kraken pointed out with a link it appears the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules.
I think you need to read the link more carefully. The link clarified the argument as to whether to trade under WTO terms it was necessary to have secured customs borders and clearly said that it's not a legal requirement. However the document goes on to say that, while not a legal requirement it is a legal necessity if we want to avoid being sued for unfair trading by other WTO members.
In essence the customs border we have with the Irish Republic would have to be the same as the customs border we have with the rest of the EU, China or the US.
....and as you failed to mention on the other thread and here on this one, that would also apply equally to the EU on its side of the border under WTO rules. If the EU allowed a porus border on its side then the EU could be sued for unfair trading by other WTO members.
In essence the customs border the EU have with Northern Ireland (and the UK) would have to be the same as the customs border rest of the EU has with China or the USA.
Well yes, of course. That's the whole problem and why the EU wants an agreed customs union/arrangement between Northern Ireland and the Republic because without it the EU cannot keep to its commitments under WTO terms and its commitments as a guarantor to the GFA.(Neither can the UK either).
The key thing you and other remainers are missing though is we're not full members of the WTO until we've had our tariff schedule approved. If we're not even a member of the WTO then how can we break the rules? "
Do you think any schedule will be approved if we disregard principles in advance?
Go to bed pumpkin. You need a nap. |
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"
I'd prefer a hard no deal brexit compared to Theresa May's Chequers plan. At least a hard no deal brexit would deliver what the Leave campaign promised on which is an end to free movement of people, we immediately leave the single market and the customs union and are immediately free to do our own trade deals. We also save £40 billion on a pointless divorce bill. We immediately free ourselves from the jurisdiction of the European Court of justice and reclaim our full sovereignty. We also make savings of around £13 billion a year as we no longer pay an EU membership fee. There may be some short term disruption to it but I don't think it will be anywhere as bad as the over the top scaremongering remoaners put about and in the long term we'll be better off with a complete clean break now. This is why I hope Theresa May's plan will be voted down in parliament and we can exit with no deal in March.
As for northern Ireland and the border it has been weaponised by remainers opposed to Brexit and the issue blown up out of all proportion by the EU and remain activists/campaigners.
Ok that's fair enough but just one honest question I'd be interested to hear your answer to Centaur, you say Northern Ireland has been weaponised by remainers, that means there must be a easy simple solution to the NI border that doesn't contravene the GFA, and what the DUP, residents of NI will be happy with...what is that easy solution Centaur ?
Because as far as I can tell, it's only Northern Ireland that is a stumbling block.
The ERG already gave clear answers to that at the press conference they did several weeks ago. The ERG specifically looked at the problems that the EU themselves had raised around the border and tailored solutions to the problems which the EU were concerned about.
People on here were questioning whether or not the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules and as Unleashed Kraken pointed out with a link it appears the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules.
I think you need to read the link more carefully. The link clarified the argument as to whether to trade under WTO terms it was necessary to have secured customs borders and clearly said that it's not a legal requirement. However the document goes on to say that, while not a legal requirement it is a legal necessity if we want to avoid being sued for unfair trading by other WTO members.
In essence the customs border we have with the Irish Republic would have to be the same as the customs border we have with the rest of the EU, China or the US.
....and as you failed to mention on the other thread and here on this one, that would also apply equally to the EU on its side of the border under WTO rules. If the EU allowed a porus border on its side then the EU could be sued for unfair trading by other WTO members.
In essence the customs border the EU have with Northern Ireland (and the UK) would have to be the same as the customs border rest of the EU has with China or the USA.
Well yes, of course. That's the whole problem and why the EU wants an agreed customs union/arrangement between Northern Ireland and the Republic because without it the EU cannot keep to its commitments under WTO terms and its commitments as a guarantor to the GFA.(Neither can the UK either).
The key thing you and other remainers are missing though is we're not full members of the WTO until we've had our tariff schedule approved. If we're not even a member of the WTO then how can we break the rules?
Do you think any schedule will be approved if we disregard principles in advance?
Go to bed pumpkin. You need a nap."
Some remainers were talking about our tariff schedule taking up to 20 years to be approved on another thread the other day. You can't break the rules if you're not a member of the club pumpkin. |
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"
I'd prefer a hard no deal brexit compared to Theresa May's Chequers plan. At least a hard no deal brexit would deliver what the Leave campaign promised on which is an end to free movement of people, we immediately leave the single market and the customs union and are immediately free to do our own trade deals. We also save £40 billion on a pointless divorce bill. We immediately free ourselves from the jurisdiction of the European Court of justice and reclaim our full sovereignty. We also make savings of around £13 billion a year as we no longer pay an EU membership fee. There may be some short term disruption to it but I don't think it will be anywhere as bad as the over the top scaremongering remoaners put about and in the long term we'll be better off with a complete clean break now. This is why I hope Theresa May's plan will be voted down in parliament and we can exit with no deal in March.
As for northern Ireland and the border it has been weaponised by remainers opposed to Brexit and the issue blown up out of all proportion by the EU and remain activists/campaigners.
Ok that's fair enough but just one honest question I'd be interested to hear your answer to Centaur, you say Northern Ireland has been weaponised by remainers, that means there must be a easy simple solution to the NI border that doesn't contravene the GFA, and what the DUP, residents of NI will be happy with...what is that easy solution Centaur ?
Because as far as I can tell, it's only Northern Ireland that is a stumbling block.
The ERG already gave clear answers to that at the press conference they did several weeks ago. The ERG specifically looked at the problems that the EU themselves had raised around the border and tailored solutions to the problems which the EU were concerned about.
People on here were questioning whether or not the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules and as Unleashed Kraken pointed out with a link it appears the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules.
I think you need to read the link more carefully. The link clarified the argument as to whether to trade under WTO terms it was necessary to have secured customs borders and clearly said that it's not a legal requirement. However the document goes on to say that, while not a legal requirement it is a legal necessity if we want to avoid being sued for unfair trading by other WTO members.
In essence the customs border we have with the Irish Republic would have to be the same as the customs border we have with the rest of the EU, China or the US.
....and as you failed to mention on the other thread and here on this one, that would also apply equally to the EU on its side of the border under WTO rules. If the EU allowed a porus border on its side then the EU could be sued for unfair trading by other WTO members.
In essence the customs border the EU have with Northern Ireland (and the UK) would have to be the same as the customs border rest of the EU has with China or the USA.
Well yes, of course. That's the whole problem and why the EU wants an agreed customs union/arrangement between Northern Ireland and the Republic because without it the EU cannot keep to its commitments under WTO terms and its commitments as a guarantor to the GFA.(Neither can the UK either).
The key thing you and other remainers are missing though is we're not full members of the WTO until we've had our tariff schedule approved. If we're not even a member of the WTO then how can we break the rules?
Do you think any schedule will be approved if we disregard principles in advance?
Go to bed pumpkin. You need a nap.
Some remainers were talking about our tariff schedule taking up to 20 years to be approved on another thread the other day. You can't break the rules if you're not a member of the club pumpkin. "
Your brain is broken. If only it worked better you'd understand why we all laugh at you. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
".
The key thing you and other remainers are missing though is we're not full members of the WTO until we've had our tariff schedule approved. If we're not even a member of the WTO then how can we break the rules?
Do you think any schedule will be approved if we disregard principles in advance?
Go to bed pumpkin. You need a nap.
Some remainers were talking about our tariff schedule taking up to 20 years to be approved on another thread the other day. You can't break the rules if you're not a member of the club pumpkin.
Your brain is broken. If only it worked better you'd understand why we all laugh at you."
You must surely understand though Centaur that it's a good idea to follow a organisations rules if your applying to join them....
|
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" The key thing you and other remainers are missing though is we're not full members of the WTO until we've had our tariff schedule approved. If we're not even a member of the WTO then how can we break the rules? "
Just stop and listen to yourself for a second |
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"
I'd prefer a hard no deal brexit compared to Theresa May's Chequers plan. At least a hard no deal brexit would deliver what the Leave campaign promised on which is an end to free movement of people, we immediately leave the single market and the customs union and are immediately free to do our own trade deals. We also save £40 billion on a pointless divorce bill. We immediately free ourselves from the jurisdiction of the European Court of justice and reclaim our full sovereignty. We also make savings of around £13 billion a year as we no longer pay an EU membership fee. There may be some short term disruption to it but I don't think it will be anywhere as bad as the over the top scaremongering remoaners put about and in the long term we'll be better off with a complete clean break now. This is why I hope Theresa May's plan will be voted down in parliament and we can exit with no deal in March.
As for northern Ireland and the border it has been weaponised by remainers opposed to Brexit and the issue blown up out of all proportion by the EU and remain activists/campaigners.
Ok that's fair enough but just one honest question I'd be interested to hear your answer to Centaur, you say Northern Ireland has been weaponised by remainers, that means there must be a easy simple solution to the NI border that doesn't contravene the GFA, and what the DUP, residents of NI will be happy with...what is that easy solution Centaur ?
Because as far as I can tell, it's only Northern Ireland that is a stumbling block.
The ERG already gave clear answers to that at the press conference they did several weeks ago. The ERG specifically looked at the problems that the EU themselves had raised around the border and tailored solutions to the problems which the EU were concerned about.
People on here were questioning whether or not the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules and as Unleashed Kraken pointed out with a link it appears the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules.
I think you need to read the link more carefully. The link clarified the argument as to whether to trade under WTO terms it was necessary to have secured customs borders and clearly said that it's not a legal requirement. However the document goes on to say that, while not a legal requirement it is a legal necessity if we want to avoid being sued for unfair trading by other WTO members.
In essence the customs border we have with the Irish Republic would have to be the same as the customs border we have with the rest of the EU, China or the US.
....and as you failed to mention on the other thread and here on this one, that would also apply equally to the EU on its side of the border under WTO rules. If the EU allowed a porus border on its side then the EU could be sued for unfair trading by other WTO members.
In essence the customs border the EU have with Northern Ireland (and the UK) would have to be the same as the customs border rest of the EU has with China or the USA.
Well yes, of course. That's the whole problem and why the EU wants an agreed customs union/arrangement between Northern Ireland and the Republic because without it the EU cannot keep to its commitments under WTO terms and its commitments as a guarantor to the GFA.(Neither can the UK either).
The key thing you and other remainers are missing though is we're not full members of the WTO until we've had our tariff schedule approved. If we're not even a member of the WTO then how can we break the rules?
Do you think any schedule will be approved if we disregard principles in advance?
Go to bed pumpkin. You need a nap.
Some remainers were talking about our tariff schedule taking up to 20 years to be approved on another thread the other day. You can't break the rules if you're not a member of the club pumpkin.
Your brain is broken. If only it worked better you'd understand why we all laugh at you."
Nothing is broken here. Remainers like to use the Gym analogy when referring to our divorce bill with the EU :- 'if you're a member of a gym and you use the gym then you settle your bill when you leave the gym'.
The Gym analogy can also be used in relation to the WTO in this case :- 'You can't break the rules of the gym if you're not a member of the gym'.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I'd prefer a hard no deal brexit compared to Theresa May's Chequers plan. At least a hard no deal brexit would deliver what the Leave campaign promised on which is an end to free movement of people, we immediately leave the single market and the customs union and are immediately free to do our own trade deals. We also save £40 billion on a pointless divorce bill. We immediately free ourselves from the jurisdiction of the European Court of justice and reclaim our full sovereignty. We also make savings of around £13 billion a year as we no longer pay an EU membership fee. There may be some short term disruption to it but I don't think it will be anywhere as bad as the over the top scaremongering remoaners put about and in the long term we'll be better off with a complete clean break now. This is why I hope Theresa May's plan will be voted down in parliament and we can exit with no deal in March.
As for northern Ireland and the border it has been weaponised by remainers opposed to Brexit and the issue blown up out of all proportion by the EU and remain activists/campaigners.
Ok that's fair enough but just one honest question I'd be interested to hear your answer to Centaur, you say Northern Ireland has been weaponised by remainers, that means there must be a easy simple solution to the NI border that doesn't contravene the GFA, and what the DUP, residents of NI will be happy with...what is that easy solution Centaur ?
Because as far as I can tell, it's only Northern Ireland that is a stumbling block.
The ERG already gave clear answers to that at the press conference they did several weeks ago. The ERG specifically looked at the problems that the EU themselves had raised around the border and tailored solutions to the problems which the EU were concerned about.
People on here were questioning whether or not the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules and as Unleashed Kraken pointed out with a link it appears the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules.
I think you need to read the link more carefully. The link clarified the argument as to whether to trade under WTO terms it was necessary to have secured customs borders and clearly said that it's not a legal requirement. However the document goes on to say that, while not a legal requirement it is a legal necessity if we want to avoid being sued for unfair trading by other WTO members.
In essence the customs border we have with the Irish Republic would have to be the same as the customs border we have with the rest of the EU, China or the US.
....and as you failed to mention on the other thread and here on this one, that would also apply equally to the EU on its side of the border under WTO rules. If the EU allowed a porus border on its side then the EU could be sued for unfair trading by other WTO members.
In essence the customs border the EU have with Northern Ireland (and the UK) would have to be the same as the customs border rest of the EU has with China or the USA.
Well yes, of course. That's the whole problem and why the EU wants an agreed customs union/arrangement between Northern Ireland and the Republic because without it the EU cannot keep to its commitments under WTO terms and its commitments as a guarantor to the GFA.(Neither can the UK either).
The key thing you and other remainers are missing though is we're not full members of the WTO until we've had our tariff schedule approved. If we're not even a member of the WTO then how can we break the rules?
Do you think any schedule will be approved if we disregard principles in advance?
Go to bed pumpkin. You need a nap.
Some remainers were talking about our tariff schedule taking up to 20 years to be approved on another thread the other day. You can't break the rules if you're not a member of the club pumpkin.
Your brain is broken. If only it worked better you'd understand why we all laugh at you.
Nothing is broken here. Remainers like to use the Gym analogy when referring to our divorce bill with the EU :- 'if you're a member of a gym and you use the gym then you settle your bill when you leave the gym'.
The Gym analogy can also be used in relation to the WTO in this case :- 'You can't break the rules of the gym if you're not a member of the gym'. "
That gym analogy was never used as far as I know, it makes no sense.
I think you're getting really mixed up now through desperation, go have a lie down mate. |
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".
The key thing you and other remainers are missing though is we're not full members of the WTO until we've had our tariff schedule approved. If we're not even a member of the WTO then how can we break the rules?
Do you think any schedule will be approved if we disregard principles in advance?
Go to bed pumpkin. You need a nap.
Some remainers were talking about our tariff schedule taking up to 20 years to be approved on another thread the other day. You can't break the rules if you're not a member of the club pumpkin.
Your brain is broken. If only it worked better you'd understand why we all laugh at you.
You must surely understand though Centaur that it's a good idea to follow a organisations rules if your applying to join them....
"
Not necessarily and here's why. Remainers say countries like Russia and Argentina are blocking our tariff schedule at the WTO because they don't want us to become members. If they see us as having an unfair advantage by bending or breaking the rules outside of the WTO they may be more inclined to approve our tariff schedule more quickly. |
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"
I'd prefer a hard no deal brexit compared to Theresa May's Chequers plan. At least a hard no deal brexit would deliver what the Leave campaign promised on which is an end to free movement of people, we immediately leave the single market and the customs union and are immediately free to do our own trade deals. We also save £40 billion on a pointless divorce bill. We immediately free ourselves from the jurisdiction of the European Court of justice and reclaim our full sovereignty. We also make savings of around £13 billion a year as we no longer pay an EU membership fee. There may be some short term disruption to it but I don't think it will be anywhere as bad as the over the top scaremongering remoaners put about and in the long term we'll be better off with a complete clean break now. This is why I hope Theresa May's plan will be voted down in parliament and we can exit with no deal in March.
As for northern Ireland and the border it has been weaponised by remainers opposed to Brexit and the issue blown up out of all proportion by the EU and remain activists/campaigners.
Ok that's fair enough but just one honest question I'd be interested to hear your answer to Centaur, you say Northern Ireland has been weaponised by remainers, that means there must be a easy simple solution to the NI border that doesn't contravene the GFA, and what the DUP, residents of NI will be happy with...what is that easy solution Centaur ?
Because as far as I can tell, it's only Northern Ireland that is a stumbling block.
The ERG already gave clear answers to that at the press conference they did several weeks ago. The ERG specifically looked at the problems that the EU themselves had raised around the border and tailored solutions to the problems which the EU were concerned about.
People on here were questioning whether or not the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules and as Unleashed Kraken pointed out with a link it appears the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules.
I think you need to read the link more carefully. The link clarified the argument as to whether to trade under WTO terms it was necessary to have secured customs borders and clearly said that it's not a legal requirement. However the document goes on to say that, while not a legal requirement it is a legal necessity if we want to avoid being sued for unfair trading by other WTO members.
In essence the customs border we have with the Irish Republic would have to be the same as the customs border we have with the rest of the EU, China or the US.
....and as you failed to mention on the other thread and here on this one, that would also apply equally to the EU on its side of the border under WTO rules. If the EU allowed a porus border on its side then the EU could be sued for unfair trading by other WTO members.
In essence the customs border the EU have with Northern Ireland (and the UK) would have to be the same as the customs border rest of the EU has with China or the USA.
Well yes, of course. That's the whole problem and why the EU wants an agreed customs union/arrangement between Northern Ireland and the Republic because without it the EU cannot keep to its commitments under WTO terms and its commitments as a guarantor to the GFA.(Neither can the UK either).
The key thing you and other remainers are missing though is we're not full members of the WTO until we've had our tariff schedule approved. If we're not even a member of the WTO then how can we break the rules?
Do you think any schedule will be approved if we disregard principles in advance?
Go to bed pumpkin. You need a nap.
Some remainers were talking about our tariff schedule taking up to 20 years to be approved on another thread the other day. You can't break the rules if you're not a member of the club pumpkin.
Your brain is broken. If only it worked better you'd understand why we all laugh at you.
Nothing is broken here. Remainers like to use the Gym analogy when referring to our divorce bill with the EU :- 'if you're a member of a gym and you use the gym then you settle your bill when you leave the gym'.
The Gym analogy can also be used in relation to the WTO in this case :- 'You can't break the rules of the gym if you're not a member of the gym'. "
So if I go to the gym and shit on the floor and then ask to join the next day they'll be like "sure, you're awesome"?
Broken broken broken brain. First step, make arguments that aren't stupid. Second step, consider arguments in relation to each other and check you're not contradicting yourself.
|
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"
I'd prefer a hard no deal brexit compared to Theresa May's Chequers plan. At least a hard no deal brexit would deliver what the Leave campaign promised on which is an end to free movement of people, we immediately leave the single market and the customs union and are immediately free to do our own trade deals. We also save £40 billion on a pointless divorce bill. We immediately free ourselves from the jurisdiction of the European Court of justice and reclaim our full sovereignty. We also make savings of around £13 billion a year as we no longer pay an EU membership fee. There may be some short term disruption to it but I don't think it will be anywhere as bad as the over the top scaremongering remoaners put about and in the long term we'll be better off with a complete clean break now. This is why I hope Theresa May's plan will be voted down in parliament and we can exit with no deal in March.
As for northern Ireland and the border it has been weaponised by remainers opposed to Brexit and the issue blown up out of all proportion by the EU and remain activists/campaigners.
Ok that's fair enough but just one honest question I'd be interested to hear your answer to Centaur, you say Northern Ireland has been weaponised by remainers, that means there must be a easy simple solution to the NI border that doesn't contravene the GFA, and what the DUP, residents of NI will be happy with...what is that easy solution Centaur ?
Because as far as I can tell, it's only Northern Ireland that is a stumbling block.
The ERG already gave clear answers to that at the press conference they did several weeks ago. The ERG specifically looked at the problems that the EU themselves had raised around the border and tailored solutions to the problems which the EU were concerned about.
People on here were questioning whether or not the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules and as Unleashed Kraken pointed out with a link it appears the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules.
I think you need to read the link more carefully. The link clarified the argument as to whether to trade under WTO terms it was necessary to have secured customs borders and clearly said that it's not a legal requirement. However the document goes on to say that, while not a legal requirement it is a legal necessity if we want to avoid being sued for unfair trading by other WTO members.
In essence the customs border we have with the Irish Republic would have to be the same as the customs border we have with the rest of the EU, China or the US.
....and as you failed to mention on the other thread and here on this one, that would also apply equally to the EU on its side of the border under WTO rules. If the EU allowed a porus border on its side then the EU could be sued for unfair trading by other WTO members.
In essence the customs border the EU have with Northern Ireland (and the UK) would have to be the same as the customs border rest of the EU has with China or the USA.
Well yes, of course. That's the whole problem and why the EU wants an agreed customs union/arrangement between Northern Ireland and the Republic because without it the EU cannot keep to its commitments under WTO terms and its commitments as a guarantor to the GFA.(Neither can the UK either).
The key thing you and other remainers are missing though is we're not full members of the WTO until we've had our tariff schedule approved. If we're not even a member of the WTO then how can we break the rules?
Do you think any schedule will be approved if we disregard principles in advance?
Go to bed pumpkin. You need a nap.
Some remainers were talking about our tariff schedule taking up to 20 years to be approved on another thread the other day. You can't break the rules if you're not a member of the club pumpkin.
Your brain is broken. If only it worked better you'd understand why we all laugh at you.
Nothing is broken here. Remainers like to use the Gym analogy when referring to our divorce bill with the EU :- 'if you're a member of a gym and you use the gym then you settle your bill when you leave the gym'.
The Gym analogy can also be used in relation to the WTO in this case :- 'You can't break the rules of the gym if you're not a member of the gym'.
That gym analogy was never used as far as I know, it makes no sense.
I think you're getting really mixed up now through desperation, go have a lie down mate."
Have you recently been diagnosed with dementia or something? Only you appear to have a very poor memory. That Gym analogy has been used loads by remainers on here in the past. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
".
The key thing you and other remainers are missing though is we're not full members of the WTO until we've had our tariff schedule approved. If we're not even a member of the WTO then how can we break the rules?
Do you think any schedule will be approved if we disregard principles in advance?
Go to bed pumpkin. You need a nap.
Some remainers were talking about our tariff schedule taking up to 20 years to be approved on another thread the other day. You can't break the rules if you're not a member of the club pumpkin.
Your brain is broken. If only it worked better you'd understand why we all laugh at you.
You must surely understand though Centaur that it's a good idea to follow a organisations rules if your applying to join them....
Not necessarily and here's why. Remainers say countries like Russia and Argentina are blocking our tariff schedule at the WTO because they don't want us to become members. If they see us as having an unfair advantage by bending or breaking the rules outside of the WTO they may be more inclined to approve our tariff schedule more quickly. "
Hmmm.... as some of the LBC presenters say "It's a view I suppose, that not many may agree with but we must move on" |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Have you recently been diagnosed with dementia or something? Only you appear to have a very poor memory. That Gym analogy has been used loads by remainers on here in the past. "
Ha, you're funny indeed
I've seen the Gym analogy used yes but not the way you've described it.
You accusing me of dementia.. fucking hilarious |
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".
The key thing you and other remainers are missing though is we're not full members of the WTO until we've had our tariff schedule approved. If we're not even a member of the WTO then how can we break the rules?
Do you think any schedule will be approved if we disregard principles in advance?
Go to bed pumpkin. You need a nap.
Some remainers were talking about our tariff schedule taking up to 20 years to be approved on another thread the other day. You can't break the rules if you're not a member of the club pumpkin.
Your brain is broken. If only it worked better you'd understand why we all laugh at you.
You must surely understand though Centaur that it's a good idea to follow a organisations rules if your applying to join them....
Not necessarily and here's why. Remainers say countries like Russia and Argentina are blocking our tariff schedule at the WTO because they don't want us to become members. If they see us as having an unfair advantage by bending or breaking the rules outside of the WTO they may be more inclined to approve our tariff schedule more quickly. "
That's yet another shit argument. Keep digging. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The only Gym analogies I can recall was along the lines of...
Regarding the divorce payment of billions etc
You join a gym on a yearly basis but if you leave early you still owe the outstanding months payments.
Second gym analogy I can remember regarded leaving the EU but still wanting some benefits of it's membership.
You don't cancel your gym membership but still expect to use some of it's facilities afterwards for free.
By all means post a link to your version and if you're right then good on you but I'd still say it makes no bloody sense and it's not an analogy I would have ever used. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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But the little point you're missing is you can't use a membership gym without being a ............................................................... go on I'll let you guess the last word lol
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Wait. Is no deal now not even WTO? Where are we left under no deal in this brave new world ? How can we tell if no deal is better than Mays draft deal if we don’t even know what no deal is ? |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Wait. Is no deal now not even WTO? Where are we left under no deal in this brave new world ? How can we tell if no deal is better than Mays draft deal if we don’t even know what no deal is ?"
May’s Deal is the only possible deal she could have negotiated and everyone has just wasted two and a half years of time and energy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Wait. Is no deal now not even WTO? Where are we left under no deal in this brave new world ? How can we tell if no deal is better than Mays draft deal if we don’t even know what no deal is ?
May’s Deal is the only possible deal she could have negotiated and everyone has just wasted two and a half years of time and energy."
I agree it as good as gets .Nobody of found mind would gamble the country on a no deal. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
And to be brutally honest about it, this must be the Brexit that people voted for. Because as we were told and as has been repeated ad nauseum here and everywhere... Brexit means Brexit and everyone knew what Brexit meant and what they were voting for.
You won. Get over it lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I'd prefer a hard no deal brexit compared to Theresa May's Chequers plan. At least a hard no deal brexit would deliver what the Leave campaign promised on which is an end to free movement of people, we immediately leave the single market and the customs union and are immediately free to do our own trade deals. We also save £40 billion on a pointless divorce bill. We immediately free ourselves from the jurisdiction of the European Court of justice and reclaim our full sovereignty. We also make savings of around £13 billion a year as we no longer pay an EU membership fee. There may be some short term disruption to it but I don't think it will be anywhere as bad as the over the top scaremongering remoaners put about and in the long term we'll be better off with a complete clean break now. This is why I hope Theresa May's plan will be voted down in parliament and we can exit with no deal in March.
As for northern Ireland and the border it has been weaponised by remainers opposed to Brexit and the issue blown up out of all proportion by the EU and remain activists/campaigners.
Ok that's fair enough but just one honest question I'd be interested to hear your answer to Centaur, you say Northern Ireland has been weaponised by remainers, that means there must be a easy simple solution to the NI border that doesn't contravene the GFA, and what the DUP, residents of NI will be happy with...what is that easy solution Centaur ?
Because as far as I can tell, it's only Northern Ireland that is a stumbling block.
The ERG already gave clear answers to that at the press conference they did several weeks ago. The ERG specifically looked at the problems that the EU themselves had raised around the border and tailored solutions to the problems which the EU were concerned about.
People on here were questioning whether or not the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules and as Unleashed Kraken pointed out with a link it appears the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules.
I think you need to read the link more carefully. The link clarified the argument as to whether to trade under WTO terms it was necessary to have secured customs borders and clearly said that it's not a legal requirement. However the document goes on to say that, while not a legal requirement it is a legal necessity if we want to avoid being sued for unfair trading by other WTO members.
In essence the customs border we have with the Irish Republic would have to be the same as the customs border we have with the rest of the EU, China or the US.
....and as you failed to mention on the other thread and here on this one, that would also apply equally to the EU on its side of the border under WTO rules. If the EU allowed a porus border on its side then the EU could be sued for unfair trading by other WTO members.
In essence the customs border the EU have with Northern Ireland (and the UK) would have to be the same as the customs border rest of the EU has with China or the USA.
Well yes, of course. That's the whole problem and why the EU wants an agreed customs union/arrangement between Northern Ireland and the Republic because without it the EU cannot keep to its commitments under WTO terms and its commitments as a guarantor to the GFA.(Neither can the UK either).
The key thing you and other remainers are missing though is we're not full members of the WTO until we've had our tariff schedule approved. If we're not even a member of the WTO then how can we break the rules?
Do you think any schedule will be approved if we disregard principles in advance?
Go to bed pumpkin. You need a nap.
Some remainers were talking about our tariff schedule taking up to 20 years to be approved on another thread the other day. You can't break the rules if you're not a member of the club pumpkin.
Your brain is broken. If only it worked better you'd understand why we all laugh at you.
Nothing is broken here. Remainers like to use the Gym analogy when referring to our divorce bill with the EU :- 'if you're a member of a gym and you use the gym then you settle your bill when you leave the gym'.
The Gym analogy can also be used in relation to the WTO in this case :- 'You can't break the rules of the gym if you're not a member of the gym'.
That gym analogy was never used as far as I know, it makes no sense.
I think you're getting really mixed up now through desperation, go have a lie down mate.
Have you recently been diagnosed with dementia or something? Only you appear to have a very poor memory. That Gym analogy has been used loads by remainers on here in the past. "
Wow....if you keep banging your head against a brick wall I guess eventually you realise it’s quite a thick one  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I'd prefer a hard no deal brexit compared to Theresa May's Chequers plan. At least a hard no deal brexit would deliver what the Leave campaign promised on which is an end to free movement of people, we immediately leave the single market and the customs union and are immediately free to do our own trade deals. We also save £40 billion on a pointless divorce bill. We immediately free ourselves from the jurisdiction of the European Court of justice and reclaim our full sovereignty. We also make savings of around £13 billion a year as we no longer pay an EU membership fee. There may be some short term disruption to it but I don't think it will be anywhere as bad as the over the top scaremongering remoaners put about and in the long term we'll be better off with a complete clean break now. This is why I hope Theresa May's plan will be voted down in parliament and we can exit with no deal in March.
As for northern Ireland and the border it has been weaponised by remainers opposed to Brexit and the issue blown up out of all proportion by the EU and remain activists/campaigners.
Ok that's fair enough but just one honest question I'd be interested to hear your answer to Centaur, you say Northern Ireland has been weaponised by remainers, that means there must be a easy simple solution to the NI border that doesn't contravene the GFA, and what the DUP, residents of NI will be happy with...what is that easy solution Centaur ?
Because as far as I can tell, it's only Northern Ireland that is a stumbling block.
The ERG already gave clear answers to that at the press conference they did several weeks ago. The ERG specifically looked at the problems that the EU themselves had raised around the border and tailored solutions to the problems which the EU were concerned about.
People on here were questioning whether or not the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules and as Unleashed Kraken pointed out with a link it appears the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules.
I think you need to read the link more carefully. The link clarified the argument as to whether to trade under WTO terms it was necessary to have secured customs borders and clearly said that it's not a legal requirement. However the document goes on to say that, while not a legal requirement it is a legal necessity if we want to avoid being sued for unfair trading by other WTO members.
In essence the customs border we have with the Irish Republic would have to be the same as the customs border we have with the rest of the EU, China or the US.
....and as you failed to mention on the other thread and here on this one, that would also apply equally to the EU on its side of the border under WTO rules. If the EU allowed a porus border on its side then the EU could be sued for unfair trading by other WTO members.
In essence the customs border the EU have with Northern Ireland (and the UK) would have to be the same as the customs border rest of the EU has with China or the USA.
Well yes, of course. That's the whole problem and why the EU wants an agreed customs union/arrangement between Northern Ireland and the Republic because without it the EU cannot keep to its commitments under WTO terms and its commitments as a guarantor to the GFA.(Neither can the UK either).
The key thing you and other remainers are missing though is we're not full members of the WTO until we've had our tariff schedule approved. If we're not even a member of the WTO then how can we break the rules?
Do you think any schedule will be approved if we disregard principles in advance?
Go to bed pumpkin. You need a nap.
Some remainers were talking about our tariff schedule taking up to 20 years to be approved on another thread the other day. You can't break the rules if you're not a member of the club pumpkin.
Your brain is broken. If only it worked better you'd understand why we all laugh at you.
Nothing is broken here. Remainers like to use the Gym analogy when referring to our divorce bill with the EU :- 'if you're a member of a gym and you use the gym then you settle your bill when you leave the gym'.
The Gym analogy can also be used in relation to the WTO in this case :- 'You can't break the rules of the gym if you're not a member of the gym'.
That gym analogy was never used as far as I know, it makes no sense.
I think you're getting really mixed up now through desperation, go have a lie down mate.
Have you recently been diagnosed with dementia or something? Only you appear to have a very poor memory. That Gym analogy has been used loads by remainers on here in the past.
Wow....if you keep banging your head against a brick wall I guess eventually you realise it’s quite a thick one "
Well we will find out soon enough "Deal or No Deal" - sounds like a tv programme!
Seriously though if a no deal we are not ready for it on 29/3 - and someone said on tv this morning we still might not be ready 31/12/20!!! |
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"Looks like he's gone for his nap
I'm starting to agree to proposals on higher taxation to help with mental health......."
You obviously need it for your dementia. Just reminding you of what you posted last night in case you've forgotten when you wake up. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Looks like he's gone for his nap
I'm starting to agree to proposals on higher taxation to help with mental health.......
You obviously need it for your dementia. Just reminding you of what you posted last night in case you've forgotten when you wake up. "
After all the times you contradict yourself,
after all the times you've been outed on here when you start making things up,
that is the best you can come back with
PS
I've not been to bed yet |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
The key thing you and other remainers are missing though is we're not full members of the WTO until we've had our tariff schedule approved. If we're not even a member of the WTO then how can we break the rules? "
oh dear lord... comprehension is not your strong tool is it centy!!!
1) name me one country in the world that would be outside of the WTO?
2) what would actually end up happening is that we would be members of the WTO, but you would not have the schedule that you wanted, and you would have to play by the most basic of rules until you got some agreements and a schedule approved.....
that is why people like me keep talking about it taking Russia 19 yrs to get what they wanted for their WTO schedule to get approved!
so..... how many countries in the world play under the most "basic" WTO terms?
i know you don't do understanding of some topics very well... but on this one it is truely scary!! and my fear is that you are a tip of the iceberg in this thinking, which is why we are where we are at now! wow! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
The key thing you and other remainers are missing though is we're not full members of the WTO until we've had our tariff schedule approved. If we're not even a member of the WTO then how can we break the rules?
oh dear lord... comprehension is not your strong tool is it centy!!!
1) name me one country in the world that would be outside of the WTO?
2) what would actually end up happening is that we would be members of the WTO, but you would not have the schedule that you wanted, and you would have to play by the most basic of rules until you got some agreements and a schedule approved.....
that is why people like me keep talking about it taking Russia 19 yrs to get what they wanted for their WTO schedule to get approved!
so..... how many countries in the world play under the most "basic" WTO terms?
i know you don't do understanding of some topics very well... but on this one it is truely scary!! and my fear is that you are a tip of the iceberg in this thinking, which is why we are where we are at now! wow!"
UK will become a dumping ground and kill our industries and agriculture?
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Centys finally been broken by the incompetence of Brexit. Hes making less sense than Pat at the moment.
Two ministers resign underscoring the difficulty in getting this deal passed. Its clearly this or no deal so its going to be interesting to see what happens.
Will the Torys hold their nose and vote for it?
Will the DUP try and collapse the government?
Would Labour rebels be the ones to get it over the line?
Will Foster and May survive till christmas as party leaders? |
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"Centys finally been broken by the incompetence of Brexit. Hes making less sense than Pat at the moment.
Two ministers resign underscoring the difficulty in getting this deal passed. Its clearly this or no deal so its going to be interesting to see what happens.
Will the Torys hold their nose and vote for it?
Will the DUP try and collapse the government?
Would Labour rebels be the ones to get it over the line?
Will Foster and May survive till christmas as party leaders?"
I've not been broken by anything fella. I've always been consistent on here and said I'd be happy leaving on no deal. I think that's where we're heading now as Brexit secretary Dominic Raab resigned from cabinet already followed quickly by Esther McVey. There is no way this deal will get voted through Parliament which leaves us leaving on no deal in March. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Centys finally been broken by the incompetence of Brexit. Hes making less sense than Pat at the moment.
Two ministers resign underscoring the difficulty in getting this deal passed. Its clearly this or no deal so its going to be interesting to see what happens.
Will the Torys hold their nose and vote for it?
Will the DUP try and collapse the government?
Would Labour rebels be the ones to get it over the line?
Will Foster and May survive till christmas as party leaders?"
The problem was always going to be NI. The fact NI provence voted remain - Foster (who is tarnished ), blocked the whole nation and hence the GFA was always going to be difficult. Maybe we need a good hard shock - back to 70's those who remember the troubles will remember how attitudes changed once the IRA bombed the UK mainland! |
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"Centys finally been broken by the incompetence of Brexit. Hes making less sense than Pat at the moment.
Two ministers resign underscoring the difficulty in getting this deal passed. Its clearly this or no deal so its going to be interesting to see what happens.
Will the Torys hold their nose and vote for it?
Will the DUP try and collapse the government?
Would Labour rebels be the ones to get it over the line?
Will Foster and May survive till christmas as party leaders?
I've not been broken by anything fella. I've always been consistent on here and said I'd be happy leaving on no deal. I think that's where we're heading now as Brexit secretary Dominic Raab resigned from cabinet already followed quickly by Esther McVey. There is no way this deal will get voted through Parliament which leaves us leaving on no deal in March.
"
That is certainly one option, but I would suggest the least likely. Most MPs now (even the majority of Brexit supporters) realise it is not in their own best interest to hang the country out to dry.
So they will all somehow try to avoid that, even if it means getting out of our pram and picking all our toys up, and staying in the EU. |
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"Centys finally been broken by the incompetence of Brexit. Hes making less sense than Pat at the moment.
Two ministers resign underscoring the difficulty in getting this deal passed. Its clearly this or no deal so its going to be interesting to see what happens.
Will the Torys hold their nose and vote for it?
Will the DUP try and collapse the government?
Would Labour rebels be the ones to get it over the line?
Will Foster and May survive till christmas as party leaders?
I've not been broken by anything fella. I've always been consistent on here and said I'd be happy leaving on no deal. I think that's where we're heading now as Brexit secretary Dominic Raab resigned from cabinet already followed quickly by Esther McVey. There is no way this deal will get voted through Parliament which leaves us leaving on no deal in March. "
Very much doubt a no deal will be passed by Parliament, yes the rabid fuck the reality of the economy and people's lives lot may well go with it but the majority of all parties can see its a potential disaster for the country..
They will pass it back on this deal, yes or no with the option of no brexit..
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"Centys finally been broken by the incompetence of Brexit. Hes making less sense than Pat at the moment.
Two ministers resign underscoring the difficulty in getting this deal passed. Its clearly this or no deal so its going to be interesting to see what happens.
Will the Torys hold their nose and vote for it?
Will the DUP try and collapse the government?
Would Labour rebels be the ones to get it over the line?
Will Foster and May survive till christmas as party leaders?
I've not been broken by anything fella. I've always been consistent on here and said I'd be happy leaving on no deal. I think that's where we're heading now as Brexit secretary Dominic Raab resigned from cabinet already followed quickly by Esther McVey. There is no way this deal will get voted through Parliament which leaves us leaving on no deal in March. "
I was referring to your WTO ramblings. If you werent so stubborn you'd just retract it because it was literal nonsense. In that it made no sense at all.
On topic, I cant see any sort of coalition coming together to back this deal, but theres clearly no appetite for no deal either.
And if May loses a vote of no confidence who's going to want to take over? I havent seen anyone making noises yet, but that could be because people believe she'll survive. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
And if May loses a vote of no confidence who's going to want to take over? I havent seen anyone making noises yet, but that could be because people believe she'll survive."
and there lies the rub.... there is no leaving who wants to be PM before brexit because they don't want to end up being the fall guy/girl....
they want the power but not the pressure.... and could you imagine a leaver taking over and ripping up this agreement!!
even most mp leavers admit that we are going to take a huge hit under no deal... nice of them to be honest now, but where was this honesty 2 years ago!!!!
thats why i think TM gave them the "no brexit at all" get out last night when she was speaking... and thats why I think we are going to the 2nd referendum |
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"
And if May loses a vote of no confidence who's going to want to take over? I havent seen anyone making noises yet, but that could be because people believe she'll survive.
and there lies the rub.... there is no leaving who wants to be PM before brexit because they don't want to end up being the fall guy/girl....
they want the power but not the pressure.... and could you imagine a leaver taking over and ripping up this agreement!!
even most mp leavers admit that we are going to take a huge hit under no deal... nice of them to be honest now, but where was this honesty 2 years ago!!!!
thats why i think TM gave them the "no brexit at all" get out last night when she was speaking... and thats why I think we are going to the 2nd referendum
"
Yes, it's the first time she has even mentioned the possibility. I doubt she did it by accident. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Centys finally been broken by the incompetence of Brexit. Hes making less sense than Pat at the moment.
Two ministers resign underscoring the difficulty in getting this deal passed. Its clearly this or no deal so its going to be interesting to see what happens.
Will the Torys hold their nose and vote for it?
Will the DUP try and collapse the government?
Would Labour rebels be the ones to get it over the line?
Will Foster and May survive till christmas as party leaders?
I've not been broken by anything fella. I've always been consistent on here and said I'd be happy leaving on no deal. I think that's where we're heading now as Brexit secretary Dominic Raab resigned from cabinet already followed quickly by Esther McVey. There is no way this deal will get voted through Parliament which leaves us leaving on no deal in March. "
I am lost what terms you think we would be on if we left with no deal. You seemed to suggest we wouldnt even be in club WTO. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Centys finally been broken by the incompetence of Brexit. Hes making less sense than Pat at the moment.
Two ministers resign underscoring the difficulty in getting this deal passed. Its clearly this or no deal so its going to be interesting to see what happens.
Will the Torys hold their nose and vote for it?
Will the DUP try and collapse the government?
Would Labour rebels be the ones to get it over the line?
Will Foster and May survive till christmas as party leaders?
I've not been broken by anything fella. I've always been consistent on here and said I'd be happy leaving on no deal. I think that's where we're heading now as Brexit secretary Dominic Raab resigned from cabinet already followed quickly by Esther McVey. There is no way this deal will get voted through Parliament which leaves us leaving on no deal in March.
I am lost what terms you think we would be on if we left with no deal. You seemed to suggest we wouldnt even be in club WTO. "
There are two types of membership - full and those applying to join have associate membership. |
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By *naqMan
over a year ago
Ayrshire |
"
I'd prefer a hard no deal brexit compared to Theresa May's Chequers plan. At least a hard no deal brexit would deliver what the Leave campaign promised on which is an end to free movement of people, we immediately leave the single market and the customs union and are immediately free to do our own trade deals. We also save £40 billion on a pointless divorce bill. We immediately free ourselves from the jurisdiction of the European Court of justice and reclaim our full sovereignty. We also make savings of around £13 billion a year as we no longer pay an EU membership fee. There may be some short term disruption to it but I don't think it will be anywhere as bad as the over the top scaremongering remoaners put about and in the long term we'll be better off with a complete clean break now. This is why I hope Theresa May's plan will be voted down in parliament and we can exit with no deal in March.
As for northern Ireland and the border it has been weaponised by remainers opposed to Brexit and the issue blown up out of all proportion by the EU and remain activists/campaigners. "
"short term disruption" Can you give us a little more info on these short term disruptions please? Saw all the financial figures you seemed very pleased with and the usual BS rhetoric that comes with but never seem to get any facts about the opposition? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
I'd prefer a hard no deal brexit compared to Theresa May's Chequers plan. At least a hard no deal brexit would deliver what the Leave campaign promised on which is an end to free movement of people, we immediately leave the single market and the customs union and are immediately free to do our own trade deals. We also save £40 billion on a pointless divorce bill. We immediately free ourselves from the jurisdiction of the European Court of justice and reclaim our full sovereignty. We also make savings of around £13 billion a year as we no longer pay an EU membership fee. There may be some short term disruption to it but I don't think it will be anywhere as bad as the over the top scaremongering remoaners put about and in the long term we'll be better off with a complete clean break now. This is why I hope Theresa May's plan will be voted down in parliament and we can exit with no deal in March.
As for northern Ireland and the border it has been weaponised by remainers opposed to Brexit and the issue blown up out of all proportion by the EU and remain activists/campaigners.
"short term disruption" Can you give us a little more info on these short term disruptions please? Saw all the financial figures you seemed very pleased with and the usual BS rhetoric that comes with but never seem to get any facts about the opposition? "
Short term as in geological ages. We will be back on our feet in a couple of hundred years. |
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"
I'd prefer a hard no deal brexit compared to Theresa May's Chequers plan. At least a hard no deal brexit would deliver what the Leave campaign promised on which is an end to free movement of people, we immediately leave the single market and the customs union and are immediately free to do our own trade deals. We also save £40 billion on a pointless divorce bill. We immediately free ourselves from the jurisdiction of the European Court of justice and reclaim our full sovereignty. We also make savings of around £13 billion a year as we no longer pay an EU membership fee. There may be some short term disruption to it but I don't think it will be anywhere as bad as the over the top scaremongering remoaners put about and in the long term we'll be better off with a complete clean break now. This is why I hope Theresa May's plan will be voted down in parliament and we can exit with no deal in March.
As for northern Ireland and the border it has been weaponised by remainers opposed to Brexit and the issue blown up out of all proportion by the EU and remain activists/campaigners.
Ok that's fair enough but just one honest question I'd be interested to hear your answer to Centaur, you say Northern Ireland has been weaponised by remainers, that means there must be a easy simple solution to the NI border that doesn't contravene the GFA, and what the DUP, residents of NI will be happy with...what is that easy solution Centaur ?
Because as far as I can tell, it's only Northern Ireland that is a stumbling block.
The ERG already gave clear answers to that at the press conference they did several weeks ago. The ERG specifically looked at the problems that the EU themselves had raised around the border and tailored solutions to the problems which the EU were concerned about.
People on here were questioning whether or not the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules and as Unleashed Kraken pointed out with a link it appears the ERG solution would be legal under WTO rules.
I think you need to read the link more carefully. The link clarified the argument as to whether to trade under WTO terms it was necessary to have secured customs borders and clearly said that it's not a legal requirement. However the document goes on to say that, while not a legal requirement it is a legal necessity if we want to avoid being sued for unfair trading by other WTO members.
In essence the customs border we have with the Irish Republic would have to be the same as the customs border we have with the rest of the EU, China or the US.
....and as you failed to mention on the other thread and here on this one, that would also apply equally to the EU on its side of the border under WTO rules. If the EU allowed a porus border on its side then the EU could be sued for unfair trading by other WTO members.
In essence the customs border the EU have with Northern Ireland (and the UK) would have to be the same as the customs border rest of the EU has with China or the USA.
Well yes, of course. That's the whole problem and why the EU wants an agreed customs union/arrangement between Northern Ireland and the Republic because without it the EU cannot keep to its commitments under WTO terms and its commitments as a guarantor to the GFA.(Neither can the UK either).
The key thing you and other remainers are missing though is we're not full members of the WTO until we've had our tariff schedule approved. If we're not even a member of the WTO then how can we break the rules? "
I'm not sure what you're point is here. You and your BREXIT chums are the ones proposing trading under WTO not me. I'm simply pointing out the problems with doing so.
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".
The key thing you and other remainers are missing though is we're not full members of the WTO until we've had our tariff schedule approved. If we're not even a member of the WTO then how can we break the rules?
Do you think any schedule will be approved if we disregard principles in advance?
Go to bed pumpkin. You need a nap.
Some remainers were talking about our tariff schedule taking up to 20 years to be approved on another thread the other day. You can't break the rules if you're not a member of the club pumpkin.
Your brain is broken. If only it worked better you'd understand why we all laugh at you.
You must surely understand though Centaur that it's a good idea to follow a organisations rules if your applying to join them....
Not necessarily and here's why. Remainers say countries like Russia and Argentina are blocking our tariff schedule at the WTO because they don't want us to become members. If they see us as having an unfair advantage by bending or breaking the rules outside of the WTO they may be more inclined to approve our tariff schedule more quickly. "
What you're actually forgetting is that the UK is already a member of the WTO and can currently be sued for unfair trading now. There is a problem with getting our trading schedule and existing FTA quotas changed (and it's no small or trivial problem) but we are a WTO member now and bound by its rules currently.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
And if May loses a vote of no confidence who's going to want to take over? I havent seen anyone making noises yet, but that could be because people believe she'll survive.
and there lies the rub.... there is no leaving who wants to be PM before brexit because they don't want to end up being the fall guy/girl....
they want the power but not the pressure.... and could you imagine a leaver taking over and ripping up this agreement!!
even most mp leavers admit that we are going to take a huge hit under no deal... nice of them to be honest now, but where was this honesty 2 years ago!!!!
thats why i think TM gave them the "no brexit at all" get out last night when she was speaking... and thats why I think we are going to the 2nd referendum"
Fabio MP's are bullet proof! They are still going to get their salary until next GE. |
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".
The key thing you and other remainers are missing though is we're not full members of the WTO until we've had our tariff schedule approved. If we're not even a member of the WTO then how can we break the rules?
Do you think any schedule will be approved if we disregard principles in advance?
Go to bed pumpkin. You need a nap.
Some remainers were talking about our tariff schedule taking up to 20 years to be approved on another thread the other day. You can't break the rules if you're not a member of the club pumpkin.
Your brain is broken. If only it worked better you'd understand why we all laugh at you.
You must surely understand though Centaur that it's a good idea to follow a organisations rules if your applying to join them....
Not necessarily and here's why. Remainers say countries like Russia and Argentina are blocking our tariff schedule at the WTO because they don't want us to become members. If they see us as having an unfair advantage by bending or breaking the rules outside of the WTO they may be more inclined to approve our tariff schedule more quickly.
What you're actually forgetting is that the UK is already a member of the WTO and can currently be sued for unfair trading now. There is a problem with getting our trading schedule and existing FTA quotas changed (and it's no small or trivial problem) but we are a WTO member now and bound by its rules currently.
"
We're currently a member of the WTO through our membership of the EU. Our membership status in the WTO changes after we've left the EU. |
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".
The key thing you and other remainers are missing though is we're not full members of the WTO until we've had our tariff schedule approved. If we're not even a member of the WTO then how can we break the rules?
Do you think any schedule will be approved if we disregard principles in advance?
Go to bed pumpkin. You need a nap.
Some remainers were talking about our tariff schedule taking up to 20 years to be approved on another thread the other day. You can't break the rules if you're not a member of the club pumpkin.
Your brain is broken. If only it worked better you'd understand why we all laugh at you.
You must surely understand though Centaur that it's a good idea to follow a organisations rules if your applying to join them....
Not necessarily and here's why. Remainers say countries like Russia and Argentina are blocking our tariff schedule at the WTO because they don't want us to become members. If they see us as having an unfair advantage by bending or breaking the rules outside of the WTO they may be more inclined to approve our tariff schedule more quickly.
What you're actually forgetting is that the UK is already a member of the WTO and can currently be sued for unfair trading now. There is a problem with getting our trading schedule and existing FTA quotas changed (and it's no small or trivial problem) but we are a WTO member now and bound by its rules currently.
We're currently a member of the WTO through our membership of the EU. Our membership status in the WTO changes after we've left the EU. "
Shockingly youre wrong about this 
Britain is a member in its own right but has been represented by the EU. Your membership status doesnt change but a new schedule has to be agreed and the US, Canada and Australia are looking for more from negotiations. While the EU will largely be covered with Canada and Australia under their own seperate agreements the UK now has to negotiate on its own against those three and at least 4 others. |
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