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Migration Watch is not independent
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"It is the equivalent of thinking Tommy Robinson is a child protection campaigner. " Yes, Tommy is. | |||
"It is the equivalent of thinking Tommy Robinson is a child protection campaigner. Yes, Tommy is." Is Migration Watch an independent organisation? | |||
"It is the equivalent of thinking Tommy Robinson is a child protection campaigner. Yes, Tommy is." So why are his legal fees being paid by an anti-muslim organisation in the US, rather than a child protection organisation here? | |||
"It is the equivalent of thinking Tommy Robinson is a child protection campaigner. Yes, Tommy is. So why are his legal fees being paid by an anti-muslim organisation in the US, rather than a child protection organisation here? " Maybe they protect Children too 
I'd like to think all responsible adults protect Children. | |||
"It is the equivalent of thinking Tommy Robinson is a child protection campaigner. Yes, Tommy is. So why are his legal fees being paid by an anti-muslim organisation in the US, rather than a child protection organisation here? Maybe they protect Children too
I'd like to think all responsible adults protect Children."Is Migration Watch an independent organisation? | |||
"It is the equivalent of thinking Tommy Robinson is a child protection campaigner. Yes, Tommy is. So why are his legal fees being paid by an anti-muslim organisation in the US, rather than a child protection organisation here? Maybe they protect Children too
I'd like to think all responsible adults protect Children.
Is Migration Watch an independent organisation?"I don't give a fuck  | |||
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"It is the equivalent of thinking Tommy Robinson is a child protection campaigner. Yes, Tommy is. So why are his legal fees being paid by an anti-muslim organisation in the US, rather than a child protection organisation here? Maybe they protect Children too
I'd like to think all responsible adults protect Children.
Is Migration Watch an independent organisation?
I don't give a fuck "So why post on a thread entitled: "Migration Watch is not independent"? Are you going to tell me that you can "do what you want"? | |||
"The Middle East Forum: "In the Middle East, we focus on ways to defeat radical Islam; work for Palestinian acceptance of Israel; develop strategies to contain Iran; and deal with the great advances of anarchy. At home, the Forum emphasizes the danger of lawful Islamism; protects the freedoms of anti-Islamist authors, activists, and publishers; and works to improve Middle East studies." It issued a press release in July describing all the different things it was doing in support of Robinson, including funding of his legal fees. The same organisation that invited Robinson to tour the USA. No mention of children. " Completely off point. Please start a Tommy Robinson thread. | |||
 I replied to someone elses post. If you don't like it don't bother replying. | |||
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"Migration Watch (and Centaur) are the only source of information to indicate that they are "independent". Independent organisations set themselves up as charities to ensure full transparency of all of their funding sources. They have to be independently audited and will lose their charitable status if they do not meet the criteria set by the Charity Commission. Migration Watch is a limited company which has never revealed its sources of funding. QED" I agree with the sentiment behind this post, and that Migration Watch are definitely biased towards a particular agenda, but this post is not completely accurate. Charities have to provide a "public benefit". The definition of this has nuance and the legal guidance runs for many pages, but it essentially means that a charity's work shouldn't benefit a private individual or limited section of society. Charities were often politically neutral in the past but many do now campaign on certain causes. The law on this is also complex and some charities have been taken to court, some winning some losing. Charities have a lot of freedom on whi gives them money. They do have to be independently audited though so it's often easier to see who their backers are. Migration Watch still don't meet these criteria and standards though. | |||
"Yes I can do what I want I replied to someone elses post. If you don't like it don't bother replying. "Ooooh. What a big, tough, strong, decisive alpha male you are. Sweetheart  | |||
"Migration Watch (and Centaur) are the only source of information to indicate that they are "independent". Independent organisations set themselves up as charities to ensure full transparency of all of their funding sources. They have to be independently audited and will lose their charitable status if they do not meet the criteria set by the Charity Commission. Migration Watch is a limited company which has never revealed its sources of funding. QED I agree with the sentiment behind this post, and that Migration Watch are definitely biased towards a particular agenda, but this post is not completely accurate. Charities have to provide a "public benefit". The definition of this has nuance and the legal guidance runs for many pages, but it essentially means that a charity's work shouldn't benefit a private individual or limited section of society. Charities were often politically neutral in the past but many do now campaign on certain causes. The law on this is also complex and some charities have been taken to court, some winning some losing. Charities have a lot of freedom on whi gives them money. They do have to be independently audited though so it's often easier to see who their backers are. Migration Watch still don't meet these criteria and standards though. " You are correct that being a charity doesn't make them inherently independent, but many don't claim to be. The pertinent point is about them having to be completely transparent about their funding. Migration Watch is not open yet claims independence. It could choose to publish it's funding but deliberately does not. | |||
"Yes I can do what I want I replied to someone elses post. If you don't like it don't bother replying.
Ooooh. What a big, tough, strong, decisive alpha male you are. Sweetheart "Glad you noticed sweetcheeks xx | |||
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"It is the equivalent of thinking Tommy Robinson is a child protection campaigner. Yes, Tommy is. So why are his legal fees being paid by an anti-muslim organisation in the US, rather than a child protection organisation here? Maybe they protect Children too
I'd like to think all responsible adults protect Children.
Is Migration Watch an independent organisation?
I don't give a fuck "Then why post on a thread about it? | |||
"It is the equivalent of thinking Tommy Robinson is a child protection campaigner. Yes, Tommy is. So why are his legal fees being paid by an anti-muslim organisation in the US, rather than a child protection organisation here? Maybe they protect Children too
I'd like to think all responsible adults protect Children.
Is Migration Watch an independent organisation?
I don't give a fuck
Then why post on a thread about it?
"Because I can | |||
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"I don't think it really matters to be honest with you, sure these things feed some fears into society but personally I think migration is more inbuilt than statistical analysis. In general people want to live amongst people who are similar, be they white, black, Christians or Muslims, in small numbers integration is enforced by lack of supply to do this, in large numbers multiculturalism becomes apparent, I've come to believe that this is a failed experiment, cultures cannot be harmonized in small places, on an individual basis most people regardless say live and let live but when they mobilise together built in tribal instincts become apparent (gang mentality). The solution to the experiment is bad and the consequences I fear may be worse. I think it could be just a 50 year intergenerational wait for improvement if ever. This is my biggest grump against liberals, they just can't grasp the fact that there grand and noble plans might not work out like they thought and because of that, they never Envisage an exit strategy." What makes you say that they are plans? Is it not just a way of dealing with the situation as ot is? | |||
"It is the equivalent of thinking Tommy Robinson is a child protection campaigner. Yes, Tommy is. So why are his legal fees being paid by an anti-muslim organisation in the US, rather than a child protection organisation here? Maybe they protect Children too
I'd like to think all responsible adults protect Children.
Is Migration Watch an independent organisation?
I don't give a fuck
Then why post on a thread about it?
Because I can "Which means you do at least give enough of a fuck about to post; which is more than 'I don't give a fuck' would suggest. | |||
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"I don't think it really matters to be honest with you, sure these things feed some fears into society but personally I think migration is more inbuilt than statistical analysis. In general people want to live amongst people who are similar, be they white, black, Christians or Muslims, in small numbers integration is enforced by lack of supply to do this, in large numbers multiculturalism becomes apparent, I've come to believe that this is a failed experiment, cultures cannot be harmonized in small places, on an individual basis most people regardless say live and let live but when they mobilise together built in tribal instincts become apparent (gang mentality). The solution to the experiment is bad and the consequences I fear may be worse. I think it could be just a 50 year intergenerational wait for improvement if ever. This is my biggest grump against liberals, they just can't grasp the fact that there grand and noble plans might not work out like they thought and because of that, they never Envisage an exit strategy. What makes you say that they are plans? Is it not just a way of dealing with the situation as ot is?" . Well it's obvious to anybody that follows politics or just lives in one spot long enough to realise that the powers that be have had plans for a long time to globalise everything, no borders, no nations is not just a chant by SJWs, this has been the elites plans since the great war, that's why I termed them liberals and not left or right, it's cross party policy and not just here but every Western country, Alex Jones doesn't create the fear, he just taps into what people already feel, just like Donald trump. The easiest place you see this is Eastern Europe, Poland elected a right wing government despite being prosperous, no terrorism and relatively low crime levels,Ive had loads of Eastern Europeans working on projects, when you talk to them in deep conversation what you find is they looked at Western Europe and say thanks but no thanks, that's why there all getting nervous about the EU, they see stuff behind the big picture. The EU's biggest threat is not brexit but an Eastern Europe exit, there all doing well with China's 1-13 plan and it doesn't involve them being westernised by multiculturalism. 1 belt 1 road 1 high speed train from Serbia to Beijing. | |||
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"I don't think it really matters to be honest with you, sure these things feed some fears into society but personally I think migration is more inbuilt than statistical analysis. In general people want to live amongst people who are similar, be they white, black, Christians or Muslims, in small numbers integration is enforced by lack of supply to do this, in large numbers multiculturalism becomes apparent, I've come to believe that this is a failed experiment, cultures cannot be harmonized in small places, on an individual basis most people regardless say live and let live but when they mobilise together built in tribal instincts become apparent (gang mentality). The solution to the experiment is bad and the consequences I fear may be worse. I think it could be just a 50 year intergenerational wait for improvement if ever. This is my biggest grump against liberals, they just can't grasp the fact that there grand and noble plans might not work out like they thought and because of that, they never Envisage an exit strategy. What makes you say that they are plans? Is it not just a way of dealing with the situation as ot is?. Well it's obvious to anybody that follows politics or just lives in one spot long enough to realise that the powers that be have had plans for a long time to globalise everything, no borders, no nations is not just a chant by SJWs, this has been the elites plans since the great war, that's why I termed them liberals and not left or right, it's cross party policy and not just here but every Western country, Alex Jones doesn't create the fear, he just taps into what people already feel, just like Donald trump. The easiest place you see this is Eastern Europe, Poland elected a right wing government despite being prosperous, no terrorism and relatively low crime levels,Ive had loads of Eastern Europeans working on projects, when you talk to them in deep conversation what you find is they looked at Western Europe and say thanks but no thanks, that's why there all getting nervous about the EU, they see stuff behind the big picture. The EU's biggest threat is not brexit but an Eastern Europe exit, there all doing well with China's 1-13 plan and it doesn't involve them being westernised by multiculturalism. 1 belt 1 road 1 high speed train from Serbia to Beijing." From what you have written it would be "obvious to anybody that follows politics or just lives in one spot long enough to realise that" that the only reason you would abandon a prosperous, peaceful life is because there is a right wing conspiracy to terrify you about being overwhelmed by foreigners? State control of the judiciary and media is a right wing, nationalistic and totalitarian behaviour. Wait, then again, perhaps it's "obvious" that all of the open minded, outward looking members of these societies have taken the opportunity to travel and live abroad leaving the old and fearful to elect those in their own image to lead them? However, I'm sure that you're right as you are so open to questioning your "obviously true" theories
Where does George Soros come into this? He always does  | |||
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"Yes your right "obviously" your always right. Besides that I haven't got time to have childish debates with the split personality you clearly have. Good luck with your thread" Good "adult" discussion. How about the attitude of an older generation in Poland who have had to live through the rapid change from the certainty of Communism to the confusion of democracy and capitalism? There's a very stark contrast in Germany. The East has very different attitudes to the West with internal migration of the young to the "liberal" opportunities in the West. Right wing support is significantly higher in the East although there is certainly support in the West. Is the resentment of foreigners inherent or just when it happens suddenly and seems overwhelming? Is the younger generation more or less open to different people and views and cultures than the old? Are they wrong to be? Did anyone care in the UK in the 90s when the country was awash with money? Was Germany or the UKs acceptance of an immigration spike for the same reason? Are you saying that businesses large and small in the UK suffering from chronic labour shortages would not lobby for increased immigration regardless of "ruling class"? What was the benefit to Germany of allowing in so many refugees? Is it not credible that some people might feel that there would be an inherently good thing to do? | |||
"It is the equivalent of thinking Tommy Robinson is a child protection campaigner. Yes, Tommy is. So why are his legal fees being paid by an anti-muslim organisation in the US, rather than a child protection organisation here? Maybe they protect Children too
I'd like to think all responsible adults protect Children.
Is Migration Watch an independent organisation?
I don't give a fuck
Then why post on a thread about it?
Because I can "Well I can take a shit on the pavement if I want to but it’s not appropriate is it | |||
"I don't think it really matters to be honest with you, sure these things feed some fears into society but personally I think migration is more inbuilt than statistical analysis. In general people want to live amongst people who are similar, be they white, black, Christians or Muslims, in small numbers integration is enforced by lack of supply to do this, in large numbers multiculturalism becomes apparent, I've come to believe that this is a failed experiment, cultures cannot be harmonized in small places, on an individual basis most people regardless say live and let live but when they mobilise together built in tribal instincts become apparent (gang mentality). The solution to the experiment is bad and the consequences I fear may be worse. I think it could be just a 50 year intergenerational wait for improvement if ever. This is my biggest grump against liberals, they just can't grasp the fact that there grand and noble plans might not work out like they thought and because of that, they never Envisage an exit strategy. What makes you say that they are plans? Is it not just a way of dealing with the situation as ot is?. Well it's obvious to anybody that follows politics or just lives in one spot long enough to realise that the powers that be have had plans for a long time to globalise everything, no borders, no nations is not just a chant by SJWs, this has been the elites plans since the great war, that's why I termed them liberals and not left or right, it's cross party policy and not just here but every Western country, Alex Jones doesn't create the fear, he just taps into what people already feel, just like Donald trump. The easiest place you see this is Eastern Europe, Poland elected a right wing government despite being prosperous, no terrorism and relatively low crime levels,Ive had loads of Eastern Europeans working on projects, when you talk to them in deep conversation what you find is they looked at Western Europe and say thanks but no thanks, that's why there all getting nervous about the EU, they see stuff behind the big picture. The EU's biggest threat is not brexit but an Eastern Europe exit, there all doing well with China's 1-13 plan and it doesn't involve them being westernised by multiculturalism. 1 belt 1 road 1 high speed train from Serbia to Beijing. From what you have written it would be "obvious to anybody that follows politics or just lives in one spot long enough to realise that" that the only reason you would abandon a prosperous, peaceful life is because there is a right wing conspiracy to terrify you about being overwhelmed by foreigners? State control of the judiciary and media is a right wing, nationalistic and totalitarian behaviour. Wait, then again, perhaps it's "obvious" that all of the open minded, outward looking members of these societies have taken the opportunity to travel and live abroad leaving the old and fearful to elect those in their own image to lead them? However, I'm sure that you're right as you are so open to questioning your "obviously true" theories
Where does George Soros come into this? He always does ". Polish people (the ones you assume are open minded) who live abroad vote in general elections!.
You seem to fall into the category I stated above, maybe you need to check your bias?.
Bias aside my thesis should be able to predict results and so far my thesis is predicting well.
I don't see a drop off in voting numbers in Eastern Europe, in fact I predict they'll go up and up. | |||
"I don't think it really matters to be honest with you, sure these things feed some fears into society but personally I think migration is more inbuilt than statistical analysis. In general people want to live amongst people who are similar, be they white, black, Christians or Muslims, in small numbers integration is enforced by lack of supply to do this, in large numbers multiculturalism becomes apparent, I've come to believe that this is a failed experiment, cultures cannot be harmonized in small places, on an individual basis most people regardless say live and let live but when they mobilise together built in tribal instincts become apparent (gang mentality). The solution to the experiment is bad and the consequences I fear may be worse. I think it could be just a 50 year intergenerational wait for improvement if ever. This is my biggest grump against liberals, they just can't grasp the fact that there grand and noble plans might not work out like they thought and because of that, they never Envisage an exit strategy." Utter tosh | |||
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"I don't think it really matters to be honest with you, sure these things feed some fears into society but personally I think migration is more inbuilt than statistical analysis. In general people want to live amongst people who are similar, be they white, black, Christians or Muslims, in small numbers integration is enforced by lack of supply to do this, in large numbers multiculturalism becomes apparent, I've come to believe that this is a failed experiment, cultures cannot be harmonized in small places, on an individual basis most people regardless say live and let live but when they mobilise together built in tribal instincts become apparent (gang mentality). The solution to the experiment is bad and the consequences I fear may be worse. I think it could be just a 50 year intergenerational wait for improvement if ever. This is my biggest grump against liberals, they just can't grasp the fact that there grand and noble plans might not work out like they thought and because of that, they never Envisage an exit strategy. What makes you say that they are plans? Is it not just a way of dealing with the situation as ot is?. Well it's obvious to anybody that follows politics or just lives in one spot long enough to realise that the powers that be have had plans for a long time to globalise everything, no borders, no nations is not just a chant by SJWs, this has been the elites plans since the great war, that's why I termed them liberals and not left or right, it's cross party policy and not just here but every Western country, Alex Jones doesn't create the fear, he just taps into what people already feel, just like Donald trump. The easiest place you see this is Eastern Europe, Poland elected a right wing government despite being prosperous, no terrorism and relatively low crime levels,Ive had loads of Eastern Europeans working on projects, when you talk to them in deep conversation what you find is they looked at Western Europe and say thanks but no thanks, that's why there all getting nervous about the EU, they see stuff behind the big picture. The EU's biggest threat is not brexit but an Eastern Europe exit, there all doing well with China's 1-13 plan and it doesn't involve them being westernised by multiculturalism. 1 belt 1 road 1 high speed train from Serbia to Beijing. From what you have written it would be "obvious to anybody that follows politics or just lives in one spot long enough to realise that" that the only reason you would abandon a prosperous, peaceful life is because there is a right wing conspiracy to terrify you about being overwhelmed by foreigners? State control of the judiciary and media is a right wing, nationalistic and totalitarian behaviour. Wait, then again, perhaps it's "obvious" that all of the open minded, outward looking members of these societies have taken the opportunity to travel and live abroad leaving the old and fearful to elect those in their own image to lead them? However, I'm sure that you're right as you are so open to questioning your "obviously true" theories
Where does George Soros come into this? He always does .
Polish people (the ones you assume are open minded) who live abroad vote in general elections!.
You seem to fall into the category I stated above, maybe you need to check your bias?.
Bias aside my thesis should be able to predict results and so far my thesis is predicting well.
I don't see a drop off in voting numbers in Eastern Europe, in fact I predict they'll go up and up."Good knowledge. There were 35000 postal votes out of 1500000 and 2015 the first year that was possible. There was a 51% turnout. I didn't say anything other than what you claimed as "obvious" was no more so than what I stated | |||
"I don't think it really matters to be honest with you, sure these things feed some fears into society but personally I think migration is more inbuilt than statistical analysis. In general people want to live amongst people who are similar, be they white, black, Christians or Muslims, in small numbers integration is enforced by lack of supply to do this, in large numbers multiculturalism becomes apparent, I've come to believe that this is a failed experiment, cultures cannot be harmonized in small places, on an individual basis most people regardless say live and let live but when they mobilise together built in tribal instincts become apparent (gang mentality). The solution to the experiment is bad and the consequences I fear may be worse. I think it could be just a 50 year intergenerational wait for improvement if ever. This is my biggest grump against liberals, they just can't grasp the fact that there grand and noble plans might not work out like they thought and because of that, they never Envisage an exit strategy. What makes you say that they are plans? Is it not just a way of dealing with the situation as ot is?. Well it's obvious to anybody that follows politics or just lives in one spot long enough to realise that the powers that be have had plans for a long time to globalise everything, no borders, no nations is not just a chant by SJWs, this has been the elites plans since the great war, that's why I termed them liberals and not left or right, it's cross party policy and not just here but every Western country, Alex Jones doesn't create the fear, he just taps into what people already feel, just like Donald trump. The easiest place you see this is Eastern Europe, Poland elected a right wing government despite being prosperous, no terrorism and relatively low crime levels,Ive had loads of Eastern Europeans working on projects, when you talk to them in deep conversation what you find is they looked at Western Europe and say thanks but no thanks, that's why there all getting nervous about the EU, they see stuff behind the big picture. The EU's biggest threat is not brexit but an Eastern Europe exit, there all doing well with China's 1-13 plan and it doesn't involve them being westernised by multiculturalism. 1 belt 1 road 1 high speed train from Serbia to Beijing. From what you have written it would be "obvious to anybody that follows politics or just lives in one spot long enough to realise that" that the only reason you would abandon a prosperous, peaceful life is because there is a right wing conspiracy to terrify you about being overwhelmed by foreigners? State control of the judiciary and media is a right wing, nationalistic and totalitarian behaviour. Wait, then again, perhaps it's "obvious" that all of the open minded, outward looking members of these societies have taken the opportunity to travel and live abroad leaving the old and fearful to elect those in their own image to lead them? However, I'm sure that you're right as you are so open to questioning your "obviously true" theories
Where does George Soros come into this? He always does .
Polish people (the ones you assume are open minded) who live abroad vote in general elections!.
You seem to fall into the category I stated above, maybe you need to check your bias?.
Bias aside my thesis should be able to predict results and so far my thesis is predicting well.
I don't see a drop off in voting numbers in Eastern Europe, in fact I predict they'll go up and up.
Good knowledge.
There were 35000 postal votes out of 1500000 and 2015 the first year that was possible.
There was a 51% turnout.
I didn't say anything other than what you claimed as "obvious" was no more so than what I stated ". Postal votes are those that don't return home regularly!. The ones I know return home every month or so primarily to bring back cheap booze, food and fags, I'm sure they find the time to vote in between. It's not really good knowledge on my part, it's just working with Eastern Europeans in a daily basis. | |||
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Triggered doesn't even get close
to madness of these people. | |||
"If liberals actually listened to people instead of saying utter tosh we might not be in the mess were in. You've got nobody but yourselves to blame." Actually, you will find that yiu weren't the one paying attention. I did not tell you that you were wrong nor dispute the reality of the shift to the right in the East. I was disputing that your "obvious" "facts" and conclusions are no more obvious than the ones I chose to present. Have a read and have a think. You will, no doubt, insist that you are completely correct. How could you not be? It's "obvious" right? Like not being able to fly... | |||
"I don't think it really matters to be honest with you, sure these things feed some fears into society but personally I think migration is more inbuilt than statistical analysis. In general people want to live amongst people who are similar, be they white, black, Christians or Muslims, in small numbers integration is enforced by lack of supply to do this, in large numbers multiculturalism becomes apparent, I've come to believe that this is a failed experiment, cultures cannot be harmonized in small places, on an individual basis most people regardless say live and let live but when they mobilise together built in tribal instincts become apparent (gang mentality). The solution to the experiment is bad and the consequences I fear may be worse. I think it could be just a 50 year intergenerational wait for improvement if ever. This is my biggest grump against liberals, they just can't grasp the fact that there grand and noble plans might not work out like they thought and because of that, they never Envisage an exit strategy." However Europeans are a great example of 'multiculturism' and integrating with different 'cultures'...that's why there's such diversity in your physical characteristics! | |||
"If liberals actually listened to people instead of saying utter tosh we might not be in the mess were in. You've got nobody but yourselves to blame. Actually, you will find that yiu weren't the one paying attention. I did not tell you that you were wrong nor dispute the reality of the shift to the right in the East. I was disputing that your "obvious" "facts" and conclusions are no more obvious than the ones I chose to present. Have a read and have a think. You will, no doubt, insist that you are completely correct. How could you not be? It's "obvious" right? Like not being able to fly..." . Well no not really, all good thesis should have some predictability, you seem to be shocked about the rise of the right in Eastern Europe, I don't. If you LISTEN to people from there instead of SHOUTING at them you tend to get a better feeling for the who what where and when motives. | |||
"If liberals actually listened to people instead of saying utter tosh we might not be in the mess were in. You've got nobody but yourselves to blame. Actually, you will find that yiu weren't the one paying attention. I did not tell you that you were wrong nor dispute the reality of the shift to the right in the East. I was disputing that your "obvious" "facts" and conclusions are no more obvious than the ones I chose to present. Have a read and have a think. You will, no doubt, insist that you are completely correct. How could you not be? It's "obvious" right? Like not being able to fly.... Well no not really, all good thesis should have some predictability, you seem to be shocked about the rise of the right in Eastern Europe, I don't. If you LISTEN to people from there instead of SHOUTING at them you tend to get a better feeling for the who what where and when motives." I'm not shocked, nor have I disputed that they have. I haven't shouted. All that I have done is suggest that your thesis has no more basis in fact than anything that I have stated. However you are the one attempting to patronise me | |||
"If liberals actually listened to people instead of saying utter tosh we might not be in the mess were in. You've got nobody but yourselves to blame." The thing I really hate about liberals is that they have this weird desire to see the best in people and seem to want to try to make things better. Wankers. | |||
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"If liberals actually listened to people instead of saying utter tosh we might not be in the mess were in. You've got nobody but yourselves to blame. The thing I really hate about liberals is that they have this weird desire to see the best in people and seem to want to try to make things better. Wankers." I admit it. I'm a wanker | |||
"If liberals actually listened to people instead of saying utter tosh we might not be in the mess were in. You've got nobody but yourselves to blame." I was listening. Or at least reading. I disagreed. There's a difference. | |||
