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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"And join the lib dems?? "
would make sense.... they basically occupy the same landscape, and as change have found out, what you end up doing is cannabalising the same space...
if someone like jo swinson wins the lib dem leadership... i could absolutely see their being a merger, she is far enough away from all the old coalition stuff they can basically reboot, where they couldn't under cable.... |
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Centre ground is where the votes come from, with the possibility of the two main parties moving further to the right and the left which will probably lead to more leaving them in Westminster who knows.. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Newbury |
The problem is that centrism is dead. Every European "Labour" party who refused to shift from "third way" politics has been anhiliated.
People seem to want to cling to this notion that the centre ground swing voters decide elections.
The fact is that they are tiny minorities in the constituencies where they exist, and are generally 55+. There are far more votes available if you engage the "young" (40 and under) non voters who vastly outnumber the swing voters in those constituencies.
The problem is that many of my contemporaries felt that New Labour sold our entire generation down the river, hate the Tories and therefore feel that there isn't a party who represents them (apart from a small number of green activists). Labour under JC started to change that. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Newbury |
Although, re: ChangeUK, they look dead in the water, and are paying for their arrogance in supposing that they would crush the Lib Dems and replace them as the party of the centre with their unstoppable "new politics" (which apparently means wearing a nice suit and having no policies).... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Shouldn't Change UK actually be called "No Change UK" as they pretty much want things to remain the same. Maybe why they got thoroughly spanked last night.  |
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"Shouldn't Change UK actually be called "No Change UK" as they pretty much want things to remain the same. Maybe why they got thoroughly spanked last night. "
...."no vote UK" perhaps as they look like a spent force already. |
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By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
i cant see the lib dems wanting anything to do with them.lib dems done pretty good why would the want to saddle them selfs with a bunch of failed labour and tory m.ps.anyway are change actualy a thing still.there f.b page hqsnt been updated since wednesday.before that it kept appearing cpl times a day on my newsfeed |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
The soft left and the soft right are looking for something that isn't the partners in crime of austerity, aka Lib Dems.
So that'll mean a name change and a rebranding to re-invent themselves.
Really ought, too.
We are crying out for an alternative to swinging to the right or swinging to the left.
Most folks don't like their pendulum swinging too far either way.
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Newbury |
"And join the lib dems??
The same ilk, really.
The middle ground begins to fight back.
"
Ah yes, fighting back against all those silly idealists who want to see an end to austerity.
Fighting back against outdated notions like letting people know what you stand for by having a manifesto.
Fighting back against the notion that it's in the public interest to know who is funding political parties......
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"i cant see the lib dems wanting anything to do with them.lib dems done pretty good why would the want to saddle them selfs with a bunch of failed labour and tory m.ps.anyway are change actualy a thing still.there f.b page hqsnt been updated since wednesday.before that it kept appearing cpl times a day on my newsfeed"
oh i can....
1) that would show they are inclusive where the tories and certain parts of labour at the moment are showing they are not...
2) strength and power in numbers..... and they wouldn't be fighting each other in places where they would naturally get the same vote....
what would be sensible is that the lib dems, change uk and the greens come to some sort of arrangement where they don't fight each other.... fight on an agreed common plan, and thats where they would win...
are they "grown up" enough to do it.... i have hope... with vince cable going, that gets rid of the last piece that tied them to the coalition....
best thing that can happen is that jo swinson becomes the new lib dem leader and then i think it could happen..... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The sooner we move away from identity politics and back to issues the better. I don't care if we have a white, black or brown pm, male or female as long as they don't pussy foot around serious issues, don't name call like children. Work out decent policies that benefit the UK and lock up Owen Jones for being a pathetic soy boy. |
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"Shouldn't Change UK actually be called "No Change UK" as they pretty much want things to remain the same. Maybe why they got thoroughly spanked last night. "
They wanted to be called Status Quo, but Francis Rossi wouldnt let them....probably. |
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"The sooner we move away from identity politics and back to issues the better. I don't care if we have a white, black or brown pm, male or female as long as they don't pussy foot around serious issues, don't name call like children. Work out decent policies that benefit the UK and lock up Owen Jones for being a pathetic soy boy. "
If we start locking up twats like Owen Jones for being influenced by never having to do a real job, then many of our politicians would go the same way. |
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"The centre ground needs some leadership. I just cannot see where it is coming from. For all the Brexit faultines, it still feels like left versus right for control of the UK.
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I think we just have to stop thinking in those terms. There is a middle ground based on controlled free markets and a caring social society. We've just got to find the right balance.
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"The soft left and the soft right are looking for something that isn't the partners in crime of austerity, aka Lib Dems.
So that'll mean a name change and a rebranding to re-invent themselves.
Really ought, too.
We are crying out for an alternative to swinging to the right or swinging to the left.
Most folks don't like their pendulum swinging too far either way.
"
I think you have a point about the austerity thing but then you also have to remember that Labour also campaigned on a policy of austerity in 2010.
I also think that if we want a revival on centrist, liberal values and we're not just voting LibDem or Green to stop either the Conservatives or Labour, then we also have to accept that sometimes, especially if we move to a more PR voting system, the party we voted for may have to go into coalition with another party and that that party may not always be the one we as individuals prefer.
Personally I was very happy when the LibDems went into coalition with the Conservatives in 2010 as I believed that they would curb some of the more excessive, politically motivated, policies towards welfare reform, and I believe they did. I would have been less happy if they had gone into coalition with Labour at that time but only because I believed Labour had been in government too long already and had made a bit of a mess of things (seems unbelievable now). However, if I'd have voted for them, and I probably will from now on, and they'd gone with Labour I wouldn't felt they'd betrayed me.
Generally I think if you want Labour vote Labour, if you want Conservative vote Conservative, Green Green, LibDem LibDem, but then, when the seats are allocated and if a coalition is required don't get all pithy because the party you voted for did a deal with some party when you really wanted some other. If you really wanted the other party you should have voted for them. |
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"i cant see the lib dems wanting anything to do with them.lib dems done pretty good why would the want to saddle them selfs with a bunch of failed labour and tory m.ps.anyway are change actualy a thing still.there f.b page hqsnt been updated since wednesday.before that it kept appearing cpl times a day on my newsfeed
oh i can....
1) that would show they are inclusive where the tories and certain parts of labour at the moment are showing they are not...
2) strength and power in numbers..... and they wouldn't be fighting each other in places where they would naturally get the same vote....
what would be sensible is that the lib dems, change uk and the greens come to some sort of arrangement where they don't fight each other.... fight on an agreed common plan, and thats where they would win...
are they "grown up" enough to do it.... i have hope... with vince cable going, that gets rid of the last piece that tied them to the coalition....
best thing that can happen is that jo swinson becomes the new lib dem leader and then i think it could happen..... "
I can't see a LibDem/Green packed lasting past BREXIT, if that. I would have voted Green in the EU elections if they had stood a much better chance than the LibDems; hell I would have even voted Labour in those elections this time if they'd have stood on a clear Remain ticket. However I can't see myself voting Green after BREXIT is sorted or ever Labour and definitely not Labour while Jeremy's in charge, at a general election.
A short term arrangement with the Greens or possibly even Labour if there's a BREXIT General Election might work. Anything more than that and the centre will start losing votes from it's right back to the "Conservative and Liberal" party, as it always has in the past.
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Change into what change to libs for a while then when election comes along people wake up and return to the big two ...same applies to the greens ....what makes me chuckle is they really think they have cracked it .....twats |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Newbury |
"Change into what change to libs for a while then when election comes along people wake up and return to the big two ...same applies to the greens ....what makes me chuckle is they really think they have cracked it .....twats"
You can say what you like about the Lib Dems and Change UK, but they don't suffer from a lack of (breathtaking) arrogance.
I can remember (whatever his name was) Lib Dem leader declaring that because they were the only Remain party, they would sweep the board in the 2017 GE.
Just because people think you are worth a protest vote in the Euros (and not even that in the case of ChangeUK), don't assume that you've been forgiven for the coalition years.
Ditto BREXIT party - Nigel has always done in the Euros but utterly failed at Westminster. |
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