FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Brexit and the car industry
Brexit and the car industry
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Continue here. It will cost more to make a car as the high tariffs on the parts have to come from the eu, about 50% of the car, they say it might not beable to produce as many cars, also they will need to remove all the eu stickers on the car plates, how will that happen, will the drivers remove it themselfes, whats your view? The car industry will be in for a bumpy ride  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I don’t believe all the car plants closed due to Brexit. It’s an ever changing beast as it is and rapidly so this past few years. I think Brexit is an easy scapegoat for those wishing to implement change anyway. I’m pro EU incidentally. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"It's fucked by bad Brexit, basically.
Brexit is responsible for the downturn in global automotive manufacturing ????? "
We have not left the EU so no, that's not what I am saying.
When UK does leave, and it looks like it may be to a state of economic isolation, the car industry will be fucked.
Like most of UK manufacturing.
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"The car industry is already having a bumpy ride.
Most of it isn't down to Brexit though. That is right, but it will not get better with brexit."
Brexit or no Brexit, Halewood is already living on borrowed time. As the industry contracts, parent Companies are pulling work back to their own countries. |
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"It's fucked by bad Brexit, basically.
Brexit is responsible for the downturn in global automotive manufacturing ?????
We have not left the EU so no, that's not what I am saying.
When UK does leave, and it looks like it may be to a state of economic isolation, the car industry will be fucked.
Like most of UK manufacturing.
"
Car industry is fucked anyway.
Do you really think it would be a bed of roses if 2016 referendum hadn't happened?
Its all been said before, so no point going over the global conditions.
I can't remember where I saw it, but there is a report showing the direct link between the eu countries with the lowest wages and the eu countries manufacturing the most cars...
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"It's fucked by bad Brexit, basically.
"
That is right it is, if it is a no deal it will be a headache to remove all the eu stickers on the car plates. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The next generation of cars will be electric, so we must make sure the part's are made here.
Let's not make the same mistakes again, using thousands of gallons of fuel moving parts around. That defeats using electric car's. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"It's fucked by bad Brexit, basically.
Rubbish it is a world crisis,the car companies tell you this but you like to ignore the facts that do not fit your thinking"
The current problems, yes.
A bad Brexit will finish it off for good.
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The car industry is already having a bumpy ride.
Most of it isn't down to Brexit though. That is right, but it will not get better with brexit."
The thread started with this.
Somehow it's morphed into:
"Brexit isn't the only reason that the UK automotive industry is in trouble."
Well guess what? Nobody has said that. So why are so many using that as an argument?
There is a global down turn.
Fewer cars will be sold. If you can keep your costs down as a company you are more likely to survive. You are more likely to shut the plants that cost more to produce a car from.
Introducing tariffs will increase the cost of cars.
Introducing transportation delays will increase the cost of cars.
Preventing staff from being relocated will increase the cost of cars.
Brexit and specifically a no deal Brexit will make the UK an illogical place to build cars.
The threat of all of these things makes it more logical to invest in plants not threatened by these additional costs.
What specific points do not make sense here? |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"The car industry wont be fucked, it will adapt like all good company's do,nothing at to do with Brexit,so how come the USA going through similar problems and there not in the EU ?"
Your post ignores the fact the vast majority of the car industry is owned by foreign capital, not UK capital.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The car industry wont be fucked, it will adapt like all good company's do,nothing at to do with Brexit,so how come the USA going through similar problems and there not in the EU ?"
Imagine if it didn't have to adapt to the shitty circumstances brought on by Brexit and could just get on with making cars. Wouldn't that be better? |
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“BMW to accelerate through Brexit crunch at electric Mini plant
The luxury carmaker is sticking with plans to build the electric car in the UK.
German automaker BMW will move ahead with plans to produce an electric version of its iconic Mini at a factory in Oxford from November, despite potential post-Brexit chaos in importing key components from the Continent.“ |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"“BMW to accelerate through Brexit crunch at electric Mini plant
The luxury carmaker is sticking with plans to build the electric car in the UK.
German automaker BMW will move ahead with plans to produce an electric version of its iconic Mini at a factory in Oxford from November, despite potential post-Brexit chaos in importing key components from the Continent.“"
Potential grain of good news there. Again imagine how great it would be without the Brexit effect.
As a side note it's really fun to see people still arguing in favour of Brexit. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Continue here. It will cost more to make a car as the high tariffs on the parts have to come from the eu, about 50% of the car, they say it might not beable to produce as many cars, also they will need to remove all the eu stickers on the car plates, how will that happen, will the drivers remove it themselfes, whats your view? The car industry will be in for a bumpy ride "
We will trade on WTO until we negotiated our own trade agreements. We will not stay on WTO for an eternity |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Continue here. It will cost more to make a car as the high tariffs on the parts have to come from the eu, about 50% of the car, they say it might not beable to produce as many cars, also they will need to remove all the eu stickers on the car plates, how will that happen, will the drivers remove it themselfes, whats your view? The car industry will be in for a bumpy ride We will trade on WTO until we negotiated our own trade agreements. We will not stay on WTO for an eternity "
What's the estimate for how long that will take? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"“BMW to accelerate through Brexit crunch at electric Mini plant
The luxury carmaker is sticking with plans to build the electric car in the UK.
German automaker BMW will move ahead with plans to produce an electric version of its iconic Mini at a factory in Oxford from November, despite potential post-Brexit chaos in importing key components from the Continent.“"
You missed a bit:
"Company officials have previously hinted at plans to move some production of the conventional Mini to the Netherlands depending on the terms of Brexit, but for now executives are sticking with the e-Mini Oxford plan."
It's also "just" assembly. Good to keep jobs but the really important new technology of the electric drive train is being built and shipped from Germany.
Now call me negative
Good to read the full story though. |
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"“BMW to accelerate through Brexit crunch at electric Mini plant
The luxury carmaker is sticking with plans to build the electric car in the UK.
German automaker BMW will move ahead with plans to produce an electric version of its iconic Mini at a factory in Oxford from November, despite potential post-Brexit chaos in importing key components from the Continent.“
You missed a bit:
"Company officials have previously hinted at plans to move some production of the conventional Mini to the Netherlands depending on the terms of Brexit, but for now executives are sticking with the e-Mini Oxford plan."
It's also "just" assembly. Good to keep jobs but the really important new technology of the electric drive train is being built and shipped from Germany.
Now call me negative
Good to read the full story though."
Thats all I could read without paying for a subscription ... lol  (thats funny yes? )
anyway...I wouldn't expect anything other than your normal glass half full positivity  .
Its great you've completed the story .. and highlighted that even though the risk of a no-deal brexit will impact their supply chain, including the import of the all important electric drive train, BMW are not pulling out, but are in fact forging ahead with the vehicle being assembled (built) in the UK. 
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"“BMW to accelerate through Brexit crunch at electric Mini plant
The luxury carmaker is sticking with plans to build the electric car in the UK.
German automaker BMW will move ahead with plans to produce an electric version of its iconic Mini at a factory in Oxford from November, despite potential post-Brexit chaos in importing key components from the Continent.“
You missed a bit:
"Company officials have previously hinted at plans to move some production of the conventional Mini to the Netherlands depending on the terms of Brexit, but for now executives are sticking with the e-Mini Oxford plan."
It's also "just" assembly. Good to keep jobs but the really important new technology of the electric drive train is being built and shipped from Germany.
Now call me negative
Good to read the full story though.
Thats all I could read without paying for a subscription ... lol (thats funny yes? )
anyway...I wouldn't expect anything other than your normal glass half full positivity .
Its great you've completed the story .. and highlighted that even though the risk of a no-deal brexit will impact their supply chain, including the import of the all important electric drive train, BMW are not pulling out, but are in fact forging ahead with the vehicle being assembled (built) in the UK.
"
They already invested in the plant. They've spent years implementing it. They did not decide today.
They are rolling the dice in the hope that we aren't as nuts as we appear to be. When they started the process they aimed that we were sane.
Why would you want to know less information? Just to reinforce the decision that you have committed to as being absolutely and unambiguously right?
Positivity is not a plan. It's what helps you get through a plan.
There is no plan. Just hope. |
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"“BMW to accelerate through Brexit crunch at electric Mini plant
The luxury carmaker is sticking with plans to build the electric car in the UK.
German automaker BMW will move ahead with plans to produce an electric version of its iconic Mini at a factory in Oxford from November, despite potential post-Brexit chaos in importing key components from the Continent.“
You missed a bit:
"Company officials have previously hinted at plans to move some production of the conventional Mini to the Netherlands depending on the terms of Brexit, but for now executives are sticking with the e-Mini Oxford plan."
It's also "just" assembly. Good to keep jobs but the really important new technology of the electric drive train is being built and shipped from Germany.
Now call me negative
Good to read the full story though.
Thats all I could read without paying for a subscription ... lol (thats funny yes? )
anyway...I wouldn't expect anything other than your normal glass half full positivity .
Its great you've completed the story .. and highlighted that even though the risk of a no-deal brexit will impact their supply chain, including the import of the all important electric drive train, BMW are not pulling out, but are in fact forging ahead with the vehicle being assembled (built) in the UK.
They already invested in the plant. They've spent years implementing it. They did not decide today.
They are rolling the dice in the hope that we aren't as nuts as we appear to be. When they started the process they aimed that we were sane.
Why would you want to know less information? Just to reinforce the decision that you have committed to as being absolutely and unambiguously right?
Positivity is not a plan. It's what helps you get through a plan.
There is no plan. Just hope."
ok |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The UK like the car industry will adapt after Brexit, even remain voters will slide quietly away, just as the supporters of the nazi party did cruel but true."
You just repeated what you said previously without responding to new information.
Then you added an insult which you proclaimed to be true.
Excellent |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The UK like the car industry will adapt after Brexit, even remain voters will slide quietly away, just as the supporters of the nazi party did cruel but true."
Even with correct punctuation. This post makes no sense what so ever. |
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"The UK like the car industry will adapt after Brexit, even remain voters will slide quietly away, just as the supporters of the nazi party did cruel but true.
Even with correct punctuation. This post makes no sense what so ever. "
It's a pretty epic demonstration of nonsense. |
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By *uckymooMan
over a year ago
Mid-Cheshire |
Come in folks do not get sucked into this
The German car makers are in deep shit full stop, they use any angle possible
Do not believe or trust a word they say
They are all illuminati, and we are pawns i. Their game.
WLPT rulings have caused the issue not brexit.
Electric cars are around the corner and new factories need building, so.. governments around the word are bidding
Fook all to do with Brexit |
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"Come in folks do not get sucked into this
The German car makers are in deep shit full stop, they use any angle possible
Do not believe or trust a word they say
They are all illuminati, and we are pawns i. Their game.
WLPT rulings have caused the issue not brexit.
Electric cars are around the corner and new factories need building, so.. governments around the word are bidding
Fook all to do with Brexit"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The car industry is already having a bumpy ride.
Most of it isn't down to Brexit though. "
No it isn't but with a WTO no deal it will most probably finish it off on any major scale. |
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"The car industry is already having a bumpy ride.
Most of it isn't down to Brexit though.
No it isn't but with a WTO no deal it will most probably finish it off on any major scale. "
Despite BMW earlier suggesting that a WTO no deal would mean they would build the new mini somewhere else... they have confirmed they will be building it in the Uk after all - even in the face of possible no deal.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The UK like the car industry will adapt after Brexit, even remain voters will slide quietly away, just as the supporters of the nazi party did cruel but true."
Biggest load of knobhead shite I've ever read even on this forum, well done  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The car industry is already having a bumpy ride.
Most of it isn't down to Brexit though.
No it isn't but with a WTO no deal it will most probably finish it off on any major scale.
Despite BMW earlier suggesting that a WTO no deal would mean they would build the new mini somewhere else... they have confirmed they will be building it in the Uk after all - even in the face of possible no deal.
"
One manufacturer with one model doesn't make an industry does it  |
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"The car industry is already having a bumpy ride.
Most of it isn't down to Brexit though.
No it isn't but with a WTO no deal it will most probably finish it off on any major scale.
Despite BMW earlier suggesting that a WTO no deal would mean they would build the new mini somewhere else... they have confirmed they will be building it in the Uk after all - even in the face of possible no deal.
One manufacturer with one model doesn't make an industry does it "
Agreed, but its better than what we were forecasting when BMW said they would be leaving...
The numbers coming out of Germany this morning are also perhaps re-focussing minds on mainland Europe |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"The car industry is already having a bumpy ride.
Most of it isn't down to Brexit though.
No it isn't but with a WTO no deal it will most probably finish it off on any major scale.
Despite BMW earlier suggesting that a WTO no deal would mean they would build the new mini somewhere else... they have confirmed they will be building it in the Uk after all - even in the face of possible no deal.
One manufacturer with one model doesn't make an industry does it
Agreed, but its better than what we were forecasting when BMW said they would be leaving...
The numbers coming out of Germany this morning are also perhaps re-focussing minds on mainland Europe"
A 1.5% drop in industrial production for june might actually do the uk a favour as germany might be more inclined to go for a deal. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The car industry is already having a bumpy ride.
Most of it isn't down to Brexit though.
No it isn't but with a WTO no deal it will most probably finish it off on any major scale.
Despite BMW earlier suggesting that a WTO no deal would mean they would build the new mini somewhere else... they have confirmed they will be building it in the Uk after all - even in the face of possible no deal.
One manufacturer with one model doesn't make an industry does it
Agreed, but its better than what we were forecasting when BMW said they would be leaving...
The numbers coming out of Germany this morning are also perhaps re-focussing minds on mainland Europe"
They also committed to the capital spend on the assumption that no deal was unrealistic.
That cost is already sunk and they have the workforce in place who they have probably also trained.
The money has already been invested.
So I think you are well aware that this is not a "choice".
They are still saying that it depends on the terms of Brexit. They will have a real choice next time they commit to capital expenditure.
Economic concerns in Germany will refocus minds to not invest in an isolated market as ours will be.
Mini is owned by BMW. They are going to cut jobs abroad not at home. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The car industry is already having a bumpy ride.
Most of it isn't down to Brexit though.
No it isn't but with a WTO no deal it will most probably finish it off on any major scale.
Despite BMW earlier suggesting that a WTO no deal would mean they would build the new mini somewhere else... they have confirmed they will be building it in the Uk after all - even in the face of possible no deal.
One manufacturer with one model doesn't make an industry does it
Agreed, but its better than what we were forecasting when BMW said they would be leaving...
The numbers coming out of Germany this morning are also perhaps re-focussing minds on mainland EuropeA 1.5% drop in industrial production for june might actually do the uk a favour as germany might be more inclined to go for a deal. "
We are almost unique amongst industrialised countries in making short term-decisions.
Why would you assume that anyone else is as foolish? |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"A 1.5% drop in industrial production for june might actually do the uk a favour as germany might be more inclined to go for a deal. "
There is no incentive for any country to seek a trade agreement with UK. By unilaterally abolishing tariffs on 85 per cent of imports, the UK has granted them free access to the UK with nothing in return.
Your post also supposes that Germany sees issues through the same lens as Britain. It does not.
Of all the member states, Germany is probability the most enthusiastic of the political aspirations of the European project. Consequently, Germany will insist the divorce bill, citizen rights and the Irish border are all addressed before any other consideration. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"The car industry is already having a bumpy ride.
Most of it isn't down to Brexit though.
No it isn't but with a WTO no deal it will most probably finish it off on any major scale.
Despite BMW earlier suggesting that a WTO no deal would mean they would build the new mini somewhere else... they have confirmed they will be building it in the Uk after all - even in the face of possible no deal.
One manufacturer with one model doesn't make an industry does it
Agreed, but its better than what we were forecasting when BMW said they would be leaving...
The numbers coming out of Germany this morning are also perhaps re-focussing minds on mainland EuropeA 1.5% drop in industrial production for june might actually do the uk a favour as germany might be more inclined to go for a deal.
We are almost unique amongst industrialised countries in making short term-decisions.
Why would you assume that anyone else is as foolish?"
Is it a short term blip? im no expert but to me if your production is falling you would be stupid to not try and keep existing customers.Beats me why you live in the uk as always putting it down. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The car industry is already having a bumpy ride.
Most of it isn't down to Brexit though.
No it isn't but with a WTO no deal it will most probably finish it off on any major scale.
Despite BMW earlier suggesting that a WTO no deal would mean they would build the new mini somewhere else... they have confirmed they will be building it in the Uk after all - even in the face of possible no deal.
One manufacturer with one model doesn't make an industry does it
Agreed, but its better than what we were forecasting when BMW said they would be leaving...
The numbers coming out of Germany this morning are also perhaps re-focussing minds on mainland EuropeA 1.5% drop in industrial production for june might actually do the uk a favour as germany might be more inclined to go for a deal.
We are almost unique amongst industrialised countries in making short term-decisions.
Why would you assume that anyone else is as foolish?Is it a short term blip? im no expert but to me if your production is falling you would be stupid to not try and keep existing customers.Beats me why you live in the uk as always putting it down."
German car industry sells €26bn to the UK which is its 2nd biggest market, just ahead of France!
The top 15 export markets of German cars include 5 EU countries and those 5 equal €70bn or €44bn more than the UK- there is your answer! If you add in 21 more countries sales it will be significantly more! |
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"The car industry is already having a bumpy ride.
Most of it isn't down to Brexit though.
No it isn't but with a WTO no deal it will most probably finish it off on any major scale.
Despite BMW earlier suggesting that a WTO no deal would mean they would build the new mini somewhere else... they have confirmed they will be building it in the Uk after all - even in the face of possible no deal.
One manufacturer with one model doesn't make an industry does it
Agreed, but its better than what we were forecasting when BMW said they would be leaving...
The numbers coming out of Germany this morning are also perhaps re-focussing minds on mainland Europe
They also committed to the capital spend on the assumption that no deal was unrealistic.
That cost is already sunk and they have the workforce in place who they have probably also trained.
The money has already been invested.
So I think you are well aware that this is not a "choice".
They are still saying that it depends on the terms of Brexit. They will have a real choice next time they commit to capital expenditure.
Economic concerns in Germany will refocus minds to not invest in an isolated market as ours will be.
Mini is owned by BMW. They are going to cut jobs abroad not at home."
ok |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"The car industry is already having a bumpy ride.
Most of it isn't down to Brexit though.
No it isn't but with a WTO no deal it will most probably finish it off on any major scale.
Despite BMW earlier suggesting that a WTO no deal would mean they would build the new mini somewhere else... they have confirmed they will be building it in the Uk after all - even in the face of possible no deal.
One manufacturer with one model doesn't make an industry does it
Agreed, but its better than what we were forecasting when BMW said they would be leaving...
The numbers coming out of Germany this morning are also perhaps re-focussing minds on mainland EuropeA 1.5% drop in industrial production for june might actually do the uk a favour as germany might be more inclined to go for a deal.
We are almost unique amongst industrialised countries in making short term-decisions.
Why would you assume that anyone else is as foolish?Is it a short term blip? im no expert but to me if your production is falling you would be stupid to not try and keep existing customers.Beats me why you live in the uk as always putting it down.
German car industry sells €26bn to the UK which is its 2nd biggest market, just ahead of France!
The top 15 export markets of German cars include 5 EU countries and those 5 equal €70bn or €44bn more than the UK- there is your answer! If you add in 21 more countries sales it will be significantly more!"
I dont dispute any of that although not checked it all i am saying there was a 1.5% fall in industrial production (not just cars) and nothing to do with brexit but im hopeful that they wont want to lose a customer who spends 26 billion (your figures not mine) when their economy is on a downturn.So it might make them think about doing some kind of deal as it would be better for everyone than a no deal.As for your 70 bn with other countries they would not lose those sales by doing some kind of deal so your post is really irrelevant. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Aren't we setting a load of tarrifs to zero anyway. Tho I'd imagine that's not on stuff we also make.
This convo will end up being numbers versus percentages as ever.
4 out of 10 cars in the UK go to the eu.
About 1 in 10 eu cars go to the UK.
That's c 600k cars to eu. And c 1600k into the UK.
Given the relative sizes of gbp, we are a bit more exposed.
Maybe we feel we can take the hit more atm given our economy is fairing slightly better.
Im not as convinced tho.
Feels like we are back in BMW will make Germany make the eu do our bidding... They need us more than we need them... Territory.
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
I was just making an observation that the figures for the Germany economy are a lot worse than they expected and that it might concentrate minds on getting some kind of deal.Now call me stupid but i thought this bit of news would have cheered up the remainers that there is a glimmer of hope of a deal. But nooooo it seems to me now the remainers would prefer a no deal exit now.What does that say? we cant stay so want it to be as painful as possible because we didnt get our own way. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" it seems to me now the remainers would prefer a no deal exit now.What does that say? we cant stay so want it to be as painful as possible because we didnt get our own way."
Ahh so your saying a no deal Brexit is going to be very painful |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
" it seems to me now the remainers would prefer a no deal exit now.What does that say? we cant stay so want it to be as painful as possible because we didnt get our own way.
Ahh so your saying a no deal Brexit is going to be very painful "
Its obvious to everybody some kind of deal is better than no deal but both better than the uncertainty that we have had. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"I was just making an observation that the figures for the Germany economy are a lot worse than they expected and that it might concentrate minds on getting some kind of deal.Now call me stupid but i thought this bit of news would have cheered up the remainers that there is a glimmer of hope of a deal. But nooooo it seems to me now the remainers would prefer a no deal exit now.What does that say? we cant stay so want it to be as painful as possible because we didnt get our own way."
If your priority is trade, leaving the biggest free trade area in the world makes no sense whatsoever.
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"I was just making an observation that the figures for the Germany economy are a lot worse than they expected and that it might concentrate minds on getting some kind of deal.Now call me stupid but i thought this bit of news would have cheered up the remainers that there is a glimmer of hope of a deal. But nooooo it seems to me now the remainers would prefer a no deal exit now.What does that say? we cant stay so want it to be as painful as possible because we didnt get our own way.
If your priority is trade, leaving the biggest free trade area in the world makes no sense whatsoever.
"
We can still trade with Europe ! |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"I was just making an observation that the figures for the Germany economy are a lot worse than they expected and that it might concentrate minds on getting some kind of deal.Now call me stupid but i thought this bit of news would have cheered up the remainers that there is a glimmer of hope of a deal. But nooooo it seems to me now the remainers would prefer a no deal exit now.What does that say? we cant stay so want it to be as painful as possible because we didnt get our own way.
If your priority is trade, leaving the biggest free trade area in the world makes no sense whatsoever.
We can still trade with Europe !"
Are you sure? i was lead to believe the four horsemen of the apocalypse were going to turn up. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Margins are always tight in automotive Industry. English speaking and access to the EU market is the attraction for multinationals to invest here. Business needs certainty to invest. We do not have certainty in this country at the moment.
Even in good times, multinationals will have contingency plans. The problem is that now ... they are starting to trigger them.
Brexit is the tipping point. There are plenty other EU which will happily welcome these companies... Ireland being the obvious one.
The effect of a hard Brexit will be instant. Overnight, many businesses will become unviable. The country has not had the time to prepare to transition to new markets and it will be incredibly traumatic to SME’s.
Brexiteers claim to be disrupters, well Britain be prepared to have you lives utterly disrupted. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I was just making an observation that the figures for the Germany economy are a lot worse than they expected and that it might concentrate minds on getting some kind of deal.Now call me stupid but i thought this bit of news would have cheered up the remainers that there is a glimmer of hope of a deal. But nooooo it seems to me now the remainers would prefer a no deal exit now.What does that say? we cant stay so want it to be as painful as possible because we didnt get our own way.
If your priority is trade, leaving the biggest free trade area in the world makes no sense whatsoever.
We can still trade with Europe !"
And Germany can still trade with us!! Which makes this thread a bit redundant.
Or is this thread saying a country who is struggling will be a weaker negotiator. In which case let's hope there's no brexit backlash before the US trade deal... |
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"I was just making an observation that the figures for the Germany economy are a lot worse than they expected and that it might concentrate minds on getting some kind of deal.Now call me stupid but i thought this bit of news would have cheered up the remainers that there is a glimmer of hope of a deal. But nooooo it seems to me now the remainers would prefer a no deal exit now.What does that say? we cant stay so want it to be as painful as possible because we didnt get our own way.
If your priority is trade, leaving the biggest free trade area in the world makes no sense whatsoever.
We can still trade with Europe !Are you sure? i was lead to believe the four horsemen of the apocalypse were going to turn up. "
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The car industry is already having a bumpy ride.
Most of it isn't down to Brexit though.
No it isn't but with a WTO no deal it will most probably finish it off on any major scale.
Despite BMW earlier suggesting that a WTO no deal would mean they would build the new mini somewhere else... they have confirmed they will be building it in the Uk after all - even in the face of possible no deal.
One manufacturer with one model doesn't make an industry does it
Agreed, but its better than what we were forecasting when BMW said they would be leaving...
The numbers coming out of Germany this morning are also perhaps re-focussing minds on mainland EuropeA 1.5% drop in industrial production for june might actually do the uk a favour as germany might be more inclined to go for a deal.
We are almost unique amongst industrialised countries in making short term-decisions.
Why would you assume that anyone else is as foolish?Is it a short term blip? im no expert but to me if your production is falling you would be stupid to not try and keep existing customers.Beats me why you live in the uk as always putting it down."
The economic cycle is not a new thing. They have come through many of them. Why would these old, large, wealthy companies forget how this works and suddenly want short-term fixes?
The EU market is far larger than the UK. They are not going to risk the larger one for our smaller one.
That's dumb.
Try answering the question rather than Using the lazy crap of proclaiming that I think my country is crap and should leave.
You are well aware how pathetic a whine that is.
You don't solve problems and mitigate risks by pretending everything is fine.
You don't get better by just repeating what you've always done.
You look at the difficult problems and all the stuff that is not going your way and work out how to fix that.
In short, you look at the reality not the fantasy ideal. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"The car industry is already having a bumpy ride.
Most of it isn't down to Brexit though.
No it isn't but with a WTO no deal it will most probably finish it off on any major scale.
Despite BMW earlier suggesting that a WTO no deal would mean they would build the new mini somewhere else... they have confirmed they will be building it in the Uk after all - even in the face of possible no deal.
One manufacturer with one model doesn't make an industry does it
Agreed, but its better than what we were forecasting when BMW said they would be leaving...
The numbers coming out of Germany this morning are also perhaps re-focussing minds on mainland EuropeA 1.5% drop in industrial production for june might actually do the uk a favour as germany might be more inclined to go for a deal.
We are almost unique amongst industrialised countries in making short term-decisions.
Why would you assume that anyone else is as foolish?Is it a short term blip? im no expert but to me if your production is falling you would be stupid to not try and keep existing customers.Beats me why you live in the uk as always putting it down.
The economic cycle is not a new thing. They have come through many of them. Why would these old, large, wealthy companies forget how this works and suddenly want short-term fixes?
The EU market is far larger than the UK. They are not going to risk the larger one for our smaller one.
That's dumb.
Try answering the question rather than Using the lazy crap of proclaiming that I think my country is crap and should leave.
You are well aware how pathetic a whine that is.
You don't solve problems and mitigate risks by pretending everything is fine.
You don't get better by just repeating what you've always done.
You look at the difficult problems and all the stuff that is not going your way and work out how to fix that.
In short, you look at the reality not the fantasy ideal."
Fuck me thats rich all ive heard from you for the last few years is whining and doom and gloom, your depressing view on the uk and how we will all be fucked.Well its a good job that we have "can do people" and a lot of them to get us through a small blip. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Electric cars ...you do make me laugh ...they are shit ...and we will never replace the cars of the world with electric it's not possible..not enough power stations to start"
What will happen instead? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The car industry is already having a bumpy ride.
Most of it isn't down to Brexit though.
No it isn't but with a WTO no deal it will most probably finish it off on any major scale.
Despite BMW earlier suggesting that a WTO no deal would mean they would build the new mini somewhere else... they have confirmed they will be building it in the Uk after all - even in the face of possible no deal.
One manufacturer with one model doesn't make an industry does it
Agreed, but its better than what we were forecasting when BMW said they would be leaving...
The numbers coming out of Germany this morning are also perhaps re-focussing minds on mainland EuropeA 1.5% drop in industrial production for june might actually do the uk a favour as germany might be more inclined to go for a deal.
We are almost unique amongst industrialised countries in making short term-decisions.
Why would you assume that anyone else is as foolish?Is it a short term blip? im no expert but to me if your production is falling you would be stupid to not try and keep existing customers.Beats me why you live in the uk as always putting it down.
The economic cycle is not a new thing. They have come through many of them. Why would these old, large, wealthy companies forget how this works and suddenly want short-term fixes?
The EU market is far larger than the UK. They are not going to risk the larger one for our smaller one.
That's dumb.
Try answering the question rather than Using the lazy crap of proclaiming that I think my country is crap and should leave.
You are well aware how pathetic a whine that is.
You don't solve problems and mitigate risks by pretending everything is fine.
You don't get better by just repeating what you've always done.
You look at the difficult problems and all the stuff that is not going your way and work out how to fix that.
In short, you look at the reality not the fantasy ideal.Fuck me thats rich all ive heard from you for the last few years is whining and doom and gloom, your depressing view on the uk and how we will all be fucked.Well its a good job that we have "can do people" and a lot of them to get us through a small blip."
Again the same old broken phrases.
We can do all sorts of things to not be fucked.
Instead we are doing the opposite. We are actively seeking to follow a path with negative consequences and nothing but the vaguest of benefits to appear in an unspecified point in the future with the plan being to "be positive" about it.
"Can do" what? What are you actually trying to achieve?
What is the glittering prize to justify the "small blip"?
You can't even call a major social and economic change for what it is.
That's complete and utter denial. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Electric cars ...you do make me laugh ...they are shit ...and we will never replace the cars of the world with electric it's not possible..not enough power stations to start"
How about building some? 
Flying would never happen...once |
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By *uckymooMan
over a year ago
Mid-Cheshire |
"Electric cars ...you do make me laugh ...they are shit ...and we will never replace the cars of the world with electric it's not possible..not enough power stations to start"
I think it will and you clearly aint been in an BMW I8 |
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" Again the same old broken phrases.
We can do all sorts of things to not be fucked.
Instead we are doing the opposite. We are actively seeking to follow a path with negative consequences and nothing but the vaguest of benefits to appear in an unspecified point in the future with the plan being to "be positive" about it.
"Can do" what? What are you actually trying to achieve?
What is the glittering prize to justify the "small blip"?
You can't even call a major social and economic change for what it is.
That's complete and utter denial."
Morning shot of pessimism, defeatism, gloom, gloominess, cynicism, negative thinking, hopelessness, despair, despondency, bleakness, blackness..done.
now, onwards and upwards ....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5PzL8aL6jtI
|
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"Electric cars ...you do make me laugh ...they are shit ...and we will never replace the cars of the world with electric it's not possible..not enough power stations to start"
Which is why you and I are about to start paying through the nose for a new fleet of nuclear power stations.
"Regulated asset base" model of funding sounds anodyne - BEIS consultation.
What it means is companies owned by the French and Chinese governments will get to attach a levy to our electricity bills and use the money to fund the construction of new stations.
We'll also be on the hook for cost overruns and delays, which are par for the course of nuclear build. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Electric cars ...you do make me laugh ...they are shit ...and we will never replace the cars of the world with electric it's not possible..not enough power stations to start"
I think you'll be in for a shock then in the coming future |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
" Again the same old broken phrases.
We can do all sorts of things to not be fucked.
Instead we are doing the opposite. We are actively seeking to follow a path with negative consequences and nothing but the vaguest of benefits to appear in an unspecified point in the future with the plan being to "be positive" about it.
"Can do" what? What are you actually trying to achieve?
What is the glittering prize to justify the "small blip"?
You can't even call a major social and economic change for what it is.
That's complete and utter denial.
Morning shot of pessimism, defeatism, gloom, gloominess, cynicism, negative thinking, hopelessness, despair, despondency, bleakness, blackness..done.
now, onwards and upwards ....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5PzL8aL6jtI
"
Do you really struggle with the idea that someone can have a very optimistic outlook on life but when the information indicates that something is going to be crap acknowledge that it is going to be crap and do something about it.
All you have done is list a lot of words that in these circumstances is the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and going "la la la". It's so incredibly unconstructive. All that's left when the information is negative but you just don't want it to be. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
You begin to understand how the ordinary soldier in WW1 must have viewed the public schoolboy idiots who kept sending them over the top time and time again in the hope that if they kept doing something often enough it might eventually work. |
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" Again the same old broken phrases.
We can do all sorts of things to not be fucked.
Instead we are doing the opposite. We are actively seeking to follow a path with negative consequences and nothing but the vaguest of benefits to appear in an unspecified point in the future with the plan being to "be positive" about it.
"Can do" what? What are you actually trying to achieve?
What is the glittering prize to justify the "small blip"?
You can't even call a major social and economic change for what it is.
That's complete and utter denial.
Morning shot of pessimism, defeatism, gloom, gloominess, cynicism, negative thinking, hopelessness, despair, despondency, bleakness, blackness..done.
now, onwards and upwards ....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5PzL8aL6jtI
Do you really struggle with the idea that someone can have a very optimistic outlook on life but when the information indicates that something is going to be crap acknowledge that it is going to be crap and do something about it.
All you have done is list a lot of words that in these circumstances is the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and going "la la la". It's so incredibly unconstructive. All that's left when the information is negative but you just don't want it to be."
Ok |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" Again the same old broken phrases.
We can do all sorts of things to not be fucked.
Instead we are doing the opposite. We are actively seeking to follow a path with negative consequences and nothing but the vaguest of benefits to appear in an unspecified point in the future with the plan being to "be positive" about it.
"Can do" what? What are you actually trying to achieve?
What is the glittering prize to justify the "small blip"?
You can't even call a major social and economic change for what it is.
That's complete and utter denial.
Morning shot of pessimism, defeatism, gloom, gloominess, cynicism, negative thinking, hopelessness, despair, despondency, bleakness, blackness..done.
now, onwards and upwards ....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5PzL8aL6jtI
"
You seem like an intelligent person, you don’t honestly believe that a no deal brexit is going to be beneficial ? |
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" Again the same old broken phrases.
We can do all sorts of things to not be fucked.
Instead we are doing the opposite. We are actively seeking to follow a path with negative consequences and nothing but the vaguest of benefits to appear in an unspecified point in the future with the plan being to "be positive" about it.
"Can do" what? What are you actually trying to achieve?
What is the glittering prize to justify the "small blip"?
You can't even call a major social and economic change for what it is.
That's complete and utter denial.
Morning shot of pessimism, defeatism, gloom, gloominess, cynicism, negative thinking, hopelessness, despair, despondency, bleakness, blackness..done.
now, onwards and upwards ....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5PzL8aL6jtI
You seem like an intelligent person, you don’t honestly believe that a no deal brexit is going to be beneficial ? "
I’ve never said an exit without a WA will be beneficial.
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By *haverMan
over a year ago
bracknell |
Strange so what people are saying is that Brexit is to blame for everything, so the manufacturing crisis and the downturn in the economy and the house prices going down and the pound dropping never happened before this Brexit then wow I must have lived through a dream for the past 50 years lol |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Well, S & P ratings agency reckon that's the case.
Its report in April considered a basket of economic indicators with comparable countries since 2016 and the trends.
Their conclusion was the UK is £66 billion poorer than it otherwise would have been.
Then you need to add the billions of £s spent by the Government on its exit planning.
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"You begin to understand how the ordinary soldier in WW1 must have viewed the public schoolboy idiots who kept sending them over the top time and time again in the hope that if they kept doing something often enough it might eventually work."
Come on lads, those Jerry bullets are no match for British Beef. Up an at em is the way to go. For King and for country. Listen out for the whistle - you will be 'right. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Bad Brexit will kill the car industry! Maybe a good thing then we go back to horses then at least there will be no shortage of manure on the roads to put on the Rose's. "
I am not keen on horse manure on my chocolates... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Strange so what people are saying is that Brexit is to blame for everything, so the manufacturing crisis and the downturn in the economy and the house prices going down and the pound dropping never happened before this Brexit then wow I must have lived through a dream for the past 50 years lol"
This is fantastic. Love you you ignore all the wealth of information available and boil everything down to. It's happened before. Completely disregarding the vast array of different causes of recessions in the past. If you did, you would notice two things. Firstly the situation is different every time and the factors involved are completely different. Secondly, this is the only time that a country voted itself into recession through ignorance and fear.
It's like saying I broke my leg four times undertaking various activities. Then I walk out in front of a car, get run over and break my leg. Can't have anything to do with the car, because it's never happened like that before.
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
" Again the same old broken phrases.
We can do all sorts of things to not be fucked.
Instead we are doing the opposite. We are actively seeking to follow a path with negative consequences and nothing but the vaguest of benefits to appear in an unspecified point in the future with the plan being to "be positive" about it.
"Can do" what? What are you actually trying to achieve?
What is the glittering prize to justify the "small blip"?
You can't even call a major social and economic change for what it is.
That's complete and utter denial.
Morning shot of pessimism, defeatism, gloom, gloominess, cynicism, negative thinking, hopelessness, despair, despondency, bleakness, blackness..done.
now, onwards and upwards ....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5PzL8aL6jtI
You seem like an intelligent person, you don’t honestly believe that a no deal brexit is going to be beneficial ?
I’ve never said an exit without a WA will be beneficial.
"
Enough of the gloom and doom. Be positive.
It will be great! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The car industry is already having a bumpy ride.
Most of it isn't down to Brexit though. That is right, but it will not get better with brexit.
Brexit or no Brexit, Halewood is already living on borrowed time. As the industry contracts, parent Companies are pulling work back to their own countries. "
And there in lies the problem. The UK has Ford (American born) Vauxhall (American owned) Toyota (Japanese) Nissan (Japanese) and Aston Martin. Whatever happened to Jaguar, Austin, Rover, Rootes, Hillman, Triumph, Wolseley, Norton, BSA, Raleigh etc. etc.
We sold the rights? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Britts now have to remove the eu sticker on their cars."
I don’t mind really as long as the EU pays for the new number plates, if not they can kiss my hairy ring  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Britts now have to remove the eu sticker on their cars.
I don’t mind really as long as the EU pays for the new number plates, if not they can kiss my hairy ring "
They won’t be paying for it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Continue here. It will cost more to make a car as the high tariffs on the parts have to come from the eu, about 50% of the car, they say it might not beable to produce as many cars, also they will need to remove all the eu stickers on the car plates, how will that happen, will the drivers remove it themselfes, whats your view? The car industry will be in for a bumpy ride "
WTO Tariffs are nowhere near 50%, near 15% max I believe which is too high. The car manufacturers who will wish to sell cats will ensure we have agreeable trading terms. WTO is a stop gap |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Continue here. It will cost more to make a car as the high tariffs on the parts have to come from the eu, about 50% of the car, they say it might not beable to produce as many cars, also they will need to remove all the eu stickers on the car plates, how will that happen, will the drivers remove it themselfes, whats your view? The car industry will be in for a bumpy ride "
A lot of problems in the industry mostly not connected to Brexit anyway.
Going on about Brexit is boring boring boring,lots of other things happening in politics get with the times |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Going on about Brexit is boring boring boring,lots of other things happening in politics get with the times"
Brexit has years to play out yet. Decades, probably. Get used to it. |
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"Continue here. It will cost more to make a car as the high tariffs on the parts have to come from the eu, about 50% of the car, they say it might not beable to produce as many cars, also they will need to remove all the eu stickers on the car plates, how will that happen, will the drivers remove it themselfes, whats your view? The car industry will be in for a bumpy ride A lot of problems in the industry mostly not connected to Brexit anyway.
Going on about Brexit is boring boring boring,lots of other things happening in politics get with the times"
Boring to you maybe, however it's going to dominate the political landscape for the next 30 years |
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"The car industry wont be fucked, it will adapt like all good company's do,nothing at to do with Brexit,so how come the USA going through similar problems and there not in the EU ?
THIS "
They have Trump instead, most of the American automobile companies import steel from China. Trump has put large taxes on any goods from China. |
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By *uckymooMan
over a year ago
Mid-Cheshire |
Yep and now their steel plants are performing creating jobs and boosting the economy.
Trumps a businessman not a politician
Id rather a business man try at politics than work with a politician in business.
The right people in a democracy tend to be voted in at the right time.
Back to the forum subject. No mention that Nissan have warned they will break German and French monopoly in the UK markets by building here if they withdraw,
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Yep and now their steel plants are performing creating jobs and boosting the economy.
Trumps a businessman not a politician
Id rather a business man try at politics than work with a politician in business.
The right people in a democracy tend to be voted in at the right time.
Back to the forum subject. No mention that Nissan have warned they will break German and French monopoly in the UK markets by building here if they withdraw,
"
If you are a fan of Trump that is fine, but do not say things that aren't true to support your opinion.
Jobs in the US steel industry have fallen by 4,000 since 2016.
Look it up.
I would rather businessmen were not involved in politics. Especially babkrupts. It leads to conflicts of interest.
Hitler, Mussolini, Putin and Chavez have all been voted into power in democracies.
Rather than selective quotes, it's best to look at what has been reported in context:
'Under the proposal drawn up towards the end of last year, Nissan would maintain its factory in Sunderland and aim to boost its 4% UK market share to about 20%. At the same time, it would shut its struggling van factory in Barcelona and stop manufacturing in France.
The contingency plan is said to be one of several drawn up in preparation for post-Brexit tariffs and was drafted before Makoto Uchida became Nissan’s chief executive on 1 December, the FT reported.
Nissan denied having made such a plan, however, and said its Sunderland plant would be under threat along with its European operations if the UK fails to ensure tariff-free access to the EU market. After the UK’s departure from the EU on Friday, both sides are expected to set out their negotiating positions on Monday before trade talks next month.
A Nissan spokesman said on Monday: “We deny such a contingency plan exists. We’ve modelled every possible ramification of Brexit and the fact remains that our entire business both in the UK and in Europe is not sustainable in the event of WTO [World Trade Organization] tariffs.
“We want our UK team of more than 7,000 people to have the best possible chance of future success, which is why we continue to urge UK and EU negotiators to work collaboratively towards an orderly balanced Brexit that will continue to encourage mutually beneficial trade.”
Gianluca de Ficchy, the chairman of Nissan Europe, already warned in October that the imposition of a 10% tariff on exports under WTO terms would put Nissan’s entire European business model in jeopardy.'
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/feb/03/nissan-eu-uk-hard-brexit
Of course, I am sure that if we pay them a big enough subsidy they would be delighted to stay. May did that before. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Yep and now their steel plants are performing creating jobs and boosting the economy.
Trumps a businessman not a politician
Id rather a business man try at politics than work with a politician in business.
The right people in a democracy tend to be voted in at the right time.
Back to the forum subject. No mention that Nissan have warned they will break German and French monopoly in the UK markets by building here if they withdraw,
"
Bloomberg is a far, far more successful business man than Trump.
By your logic, he would make a much, much better President.
Correct? |
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By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
"Yep and now their steel plants are performing creating jobs and boosting the economy.
Trumps a businessman not a politician
Id rather a business man try at politics than work with a politician in business.
The right people in a democracy tend to be voted in at the right time.
Back to the forum subject. No mention that Nissan have warned they will break German and French monopoly in the UK markets by building here if they withdraw,
Bloomberg is a far, far more successful business man than Trump.
By your logic, he would make a much, much better President.
Correct?"
he no doubt would do a better job than trump.BUT i really dont see him getting chosen.he funding his own campaign so wont owe anyone anything.and all those dem donors are gona want something in return for there money so will prob be someone with lots of greedy backers |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"The car industry wont be fucked, it will adapt like all good company's do,nothing at to do with Brexit,so how come the USA going through similar problems and there not in the EU ?
THIS
They have Trump instead, most of the American automobile companies import steel from China. Trump has put large taxes on any goods from China."
there is actually an Historical reason as to why....
the US places a 25% tariff on European made trucks.... so the EU placed a 15% Tariff on american made cars
thats why you don't see euro trucks in the US, and very few american made cars in europe.... |
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By *uckymooMan
over a year ago
Mid-Cheshire |
"Yep and now their steel plants are performing creating jobs and boosting the economy.
Trumps a businessman not a politician
Id rather a business man try at politics than work with a politician in business.
The right people in a democracy tend to be voted in at the right time.
Back to the forum subject. No mention that Nissan have warned they will break German and French monopoly in the UK markets by building here if they withdraw,
Bloomberg is a far, far more successful business man than Trump.
By your logic, he would make a much, much better President.
Correct?
he no doubt would do a better job than trump.BUT i really dont see him getting chosen.he funding his own campaign so wont owe anyone anything.and all those dem donors are gona want something in return for there money so will prob be someone with lots of greedy backers"
I think people are completely detached from reality, he is delivering for people of low incomes who want to work and move up. Those who are prepared to work, and put on the effort are actually being recognise as such and benefittin. There are obviously folk who are anti trump.. because they feel compelled to be, they think its trendy to be l, socially correct to be, so they go against him.
But the smart folk, have switched. The hill billys vote for him no matter, the black vote is migrating to him and now the hispanic vote too.
The reason... there is no opposition, on left wing objectors as per corbyn here, and he is bringing their standard of living up!
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Yep and now their steel plants are performing creating jobs and boosting the economy.
Trumps a businessman not a politician
Id rather a business man try at politics than work with a politician in business.
The right people in a democracy tend to be voted in at the right time.
Back to the forum subject. No mention that Nissan have warned they will break German and French monopoly in the UK markets by building here if they withdraw,
Bloomberg is a far, far more successful business man than Trump.
By your logic, he would make a much, much better President.
Correct?
he no doubt would do a better job than trump.BUT i really dont see him getting chosen.he funding his own campaign so wont owe anyone anything.and all those dem donors are gona want something in return for there money so will prob be someone with lots of greedy backers
I think people are completely detached from reality, he is delivering for people of low incomes who want to work and move up. Those who are prepared to work, and put on the effort are actually being recognise as such and benefittin. There are obviously folk who are anti trump.. because they feel compelled to be, they think its trendy to be l, socially correct to be, so they go against him.
But the smart folk, have switched. The hill billys vote for him no matter, the black vote is migrating to him and now the hispanic vote too.
The reason... there is no opposition, on left wing objectors as per corbyn here, and he is bringing their standard of living up!
"
So well done ignoring the completely factual sets of data that I provided you concerning US steel jobs and possible Nissan production plans in the UK.
If you wish to ignore actual data then you can believe anything that you wish.
Jobs have been increasing at a same rate since 2010. The highest was in 2014. So all that can be really said is Trump hasn't broken anything except for perhaps the budget deficit which is eye-watering for peacetime in an expanding economy.
Black support for Trump has skyrocketed from 8% to 10%. Latino support down to 25% from 28% in 2016.
Where is your data from?
You are correct that the opposition is divided. That is the nature of liberal and socialist ideology though. |
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