FabSwingers.com > Forums > Scotland > Independence

Independence

By *wiftiee OP Man over a year ago

near Glasgow

If I hear Nicola Sturgeon say "independence" once more, I'll..................scream!

What is the point of getting independence from Westminster, then going 'cap in hand' to Brussels? Independence means independence, and going with the EU isn't independence!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Oh but Nicola is a one trick pony....like her party she will wither with the spotlight

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Unlikely that the EU would have us anyway

I am not completely sure on the details but don't think Scotland meets the criteria - currency, GDP etc

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By *ndykayMan over a year ago

Falkirk

She needs to get a grip on running Scotland first. Let's tackle the poverty and crime and health and education first. It's what she was elected to do.

Then IF there's time, follow your pet projects.

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By *wiftiee OP Man over a year ago

near Glasgow

"Unlikely that the EU would have us anyway

I am not completely sure on the details but don't think Scotland meets the criteria - currency, GDP etc "

One word. Greece?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Not a good idea. I voted YES the first time but now I would vote NO. It's just got too messy..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"She needs to get a grip on running Scotland first. Let's tackle the poverty and crime and health and education first. It's what she was elected to do.

Then IF there's time, follow your pet projects.

"
see to get a grip on the poverty part we need to get away from England, just a fact

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

“Good morning. In less than an hour, aircraft from here will join others from around the world. And you will be launching the largest aerial battle in the history of mankind. “Mankind.” That word should have new meaning for all of us today. We can’t be consumed by our petty differences anymore. We will be united in our common interests. Perhaps it’s fate that today is the Fourth of July, and you will once again be fighting for our freedom… Not from tyranny, oppression, or persecution… but from annihilation. We are fighting for our right to live. To exist. And should we win the day, the Fourth of July will no longer be known as an American holiday, but as the day the world declared in one voice: We will not go quietly into the night! We will not vanish without a fight! We’re going to live on! We’re going to survive! Today we celebrate our Independence Day!”

Banging movie

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By *andACouple over a year ago

glasgow

"see to get a grip on the poverty part we need to get away from England, just a fact"

What evidence is there for this fact? I'm asking as the evidence points to the exact opposite, without the transfer of billions of pounds from the UK govt to cover our deficit we would require massive spending cuts along with massive tax rises. There were a few noises coming from some within the SNP who were admitting it was time to be honest about such things but it appears they have been silenced in recent weeks.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 03/09/16 13:30:55]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I will vote Yes again as im sick of our country being run by tory bastards.

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By *alcon43Woman over a year ago

Paisley

The SNP didn't have answers to many questions raised in 2014 regarding the economy, currency, health service, education, immigration, welfare, industry, etc Nothing has changed and they still don't have the answers. The price of oil fell reducing Scotland's income but the SNP don't have any way to meet the shortfall.

Scotland has it's own government but the SNP are wasting this opportunity by procrastinating about independence instead of actually running the country and getting it in to a stronger financial position.

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By *anny77Man over a year ago

glasgow

My one and only reason for voting yes at the last referendum was because I feared the UK would vote to leave Europe.

With that in mind, I'd vote yes again. I believe we are stronger in Europe. I'm not one for talking politics - especially since I'm predominantly here for fun - but I honestly believe Brexit to be a massive mistake and we will learn that the hard way.

It doesn't mean I'm going to argue with anyone who doesn't. I won't. I promise

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Unlikely that the EU would have us anyway

I am not completely sure on the details but don't think Scotland meets the criteria - currency, GDP etc

One word. Greece?"

Yes I think everyone should think very hard before jumping on the independence wagon. as above. one word.

Greece.

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By *icklybitMan over a year ago

Ayrshire

If independent, getting into the EU would not be a pleasant experience, the EU has a Growth and stability pact which requires a limit of deficit to 3%, we currently run at 9.5%.

So the question is how do we reduce this deficit? By reducing our services and tax increases or a combination of both.

I really cant see why being out of the UK but in the EU would be good for our economy as most of our trade is with the rest of the UK, approximately 4 times

Lets not forget that the optouts we currently have as part of the UK would probably not be gained if we joined the EU as an independent state.

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By *vbride1963TV/TS over a year ago

E.K . Glasgow

"The SNP didn't have answers to many questions raised in 2014 regarding the economy, currency, health service, education, immigration, welfare, industry, etc Nothing has changed and they still don't have the answers. The price of oil fell reducing Scotland's income but the SNP don't have any way to meet the shortfall.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I will vote Yes again as im sick of our country being run by tory bastards."

What a mature well thought out political argument

i bet you kick ass at debate club

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By *anny77Man over a year ago

glasgow

"I will vote Yes again as im sick of our country being run by tory bastards.

What a mature well thought out political argument

i bet you kick ass at debate club

Ha ha ha ha. I agree with him though well with his vote at least

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By *wiftiee OP Man over a year ago

near Glasgow

"My one and only reason for voting yes at the last referendum was because I feared the UK would vote to leave Europe.

It doesn't mean I'm going to argue with anyone who doesn't. I won't. I promise

But how can we be independent if we are in the EU. Check the dictionary, see what the word 'independence' means!!!

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By *anny77Man over a year ago

glasgow

"My one and only reason for voting yes at the last referendum was because I feared the UK would vote to leave Europe.

It doesn't mean I'm going to argue with anyone who doesn't. I won't. I promise

But how can we be independent if we are in the EU. Check the dictionary, see what the word 'independence' means!!!"

I told you I'm not going to argue but, from what you've just said, you don't think the UK worked as an independent country all the time it's been in the EU?

In actual fact the UK was, and had the potential to be even more of, a powerful player in he European Union. And I would have been happy to remain.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Well that's the country sorted, thanks to everyone for your expert opinions on the matter, we can all sleep easy tonight

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By *wiftiee OP Man over a year ago

near Glasgow

"My one and only reason for voting yes at the last referendum was because I feared the UK would vote to leave Europe.

It doesn't mean I'm going to argue with anyone who doesn't. I won't. I promise

But how can we be independent if we are in the EU. Check the dictionary, see what the word 'independence' means!!!

I told you I'm not going to argue but, from what you've just said, you don't think the UK worked as an independent country all the time it's been in the EU?

In actual fact the UK was, and had the potential to be even more of, a powerful player in he European Union. And I would have been happy to remain."

You really think the country was independent in the EU???

I'm sorry, but people like you frighten me.

Where on earth have you been living for the past dear knows how many years?

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By *anny77Man over a year ago

glasgow

"My one and only reason for voting yes at the last referendum was because I feared the UK would vote to leave Europe.

It doesn't mean I'm going to argue with anyone who doesn't. I won't. I promise

But how can we be independent if we are in the EU. Check the dictionary, see what the word 'independence' means!!!

I told you I'm not going to argue but, from what you've just said, you don't think the UK worked as an independent country all the time it's been in the EU?

In actual fact the UK was, and had the potential to be even more of, a powerful player in he European Union. And I would have been happy to remain.

You really think the country was independent in the EU???

I'm sorry, but people like you frighten me.

Where on earth have you been living for the past dear knows how many years?

I frighten you because we've got different political views? Must be terrifying leaving the house.

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By *ndykayMan over a year ago

Falkirk

"My one and only reason for voting yes at the last referendum was because I feared the UK would vote to leave Europe.

It doesn't mean I'm going to argue with anyone who doesn't. I won't. I promise

But how can we be independent if we are in the EU. Check the dictionary, see what the word 'independence' means!!!

I told you I'm not going to argue but, from what you've just said, you don't think the UK worked as an independent country all the time it's been in the EU?

In actual fact the UK was, and had the potential to be even more of, a powerful player in he European Union. And I would have been happy to remain.

You really think the country was independent in the EU???

I'm sorry, but people like you frighten me.

Where on earth have you been living for the past dear knows how many years?

I frighten you because we've got different political views? Must be terrifying leaving the house."

Not really. But just a couple of side questions.....

Do you know what an MEP is?

Do you know the name of yours?

Do you know the name of the person in charge of Europe?

Have you ever heard of the European Parliament?

Do you know what the European Parliament does?

Just wondering....because they've been making laws that the uk and Scotland have to abide by for years.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

and most of those laws made sense.....bloody Romans what they ever did for us

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By *ndykayMan over a year ago

Falkirk

"and most of those laws made sense.....bloody Romans what they ever did for us

Unfortunately - only about half have made any sense. The other half have burdened everyone with more problems than they've solved.

Oh, sanitation

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 03/09/16 17:53:23]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"and most of those laws made sense.....bloody Romans what they ever did for us

nicola sturgeon is not the messiah ... Shes a very naughty boy ... Eh girl ... You get the point

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By *anny77Man over a year ago

glasgow

"My one and only reason for voting yes at the last referendum was because I feared the UK would vote to leave Europe.

It doesn't mean I'm going to argue with anyone who doesn't. I won't. I promise

But how can we be independent if we are in the EU. Check the dictionary, see what the word 'independence' means!!!

I told you I'm not going to argue but, from what you've just said, you don't think the UK worked as an independent country all the time it's been in the EU?

In actual fact the UK was, and had the potential to be even more of, a powerful player in he European Union. And I would have been happy to remain.

You really think the country was independent in the EU???

I'm sorry, but people like you frighten me.

Where on earth have you been living for the past dear knows how many years?

I frighten you because we've got different political views? Must be terrifying leaving the house.

Not really. But just a couple of side questions.....

Do you know what an MEP is?

Do you know the name of yours?

Do you know the name of the person in charge of Europe?

Have you ever heard of the European Parliament?

Do you know what the European Parliament does?

Just wondering....because they've been making laws that the uk and Scotland have to abide by for years.

Yeah and not only have we had a say in them but we also sided with over 95% of them because they were... Sensible.

The EU has done wonderful things for the UK. In terms of human rights, equal rights, minimum wage, working hours... To name but a few.

I didn't intend to get into a political debate abou Not because I am clearly looking at this differently to you guys... It doesn't mean I think I'm right and you're wrong. It means we have a difference of opinion. I also don't think that's a bad thing. I respect your right to have an opinion even though I don't share it.

But I am not happy being patronised for it or told that people like me scare them. I can name you every Scottish MEP if you want. So can anyone with Google. What difference is that going to make?

I am actually on FAB to meet people and have fun... Not to end up in a debate that will, statistically, make 52% of you think I'm an arsehole

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By *anny77Man over a year ago

glasgow

"and most of those laws made sense.....bloody Romans what they ever did for us

nicola sturgeon is not the messiah ... Shes a very naughty boy ... Eh girl ... You get the point

...boy... Girl... Krankie...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If I hear Nicola Sturgeon say "independence" once more, I'll..................scream!

What is the point of getting independence from Westminster, then going 'cap in hand' to Brussels? Independence means independence, and going with the EU isn't independence!!"
At the end of the day, the Scottish electorate decided 2 years ago to remain as part of the United Kingdom (which in my eyes was and still is the correct result). However wee Nicola "jimmy krankie" Sturgeon and the rest of her nationalist traitors wont accept that, that was how the electorate voted ! The quicker their removed from parlaiment the better. Just my opinion

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By *ndykayMan over a year ago

Falkirk

So why are you getting in such a tizzy?

My ORIGINAL point was that the decision has been made democratically and instead of repeating it again and again until they get the result they want, the SNP should get on with the actual running of Scotland.

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By *anny77Man over a year ago

glasgow

"So why are you getting in such a tizzy?

"Democratic" decisions are re-evaluated constantly.

Except in America where psychos shoot up schools and people worry Obama will try to take their guns away.

I'm not in a tizzy.

I'm trying to be level headed and people seem to think I'm crazed for having an opinion

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By *ndykayMan over a year ago

Falkirk

"So why are you getting in such a tizzy?

"Democratic" decisions are re-evaluated constantly.

Except in America where psychos shoot up schools and people worry Obama will try to take their guns away.

I'm not in a tizzy.

I'm trying to be level headed and people seem to think I'm crazed for having an opinion"

I agree about the US. You'd think they'd have figured it out by now

But don't for one second think the referendum wasn't democratic

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By *anny77Man over a year ago

glasgow

"So why are you getting in such a tizzy?

"Democratic" decisions are re-evaluated constantly.

Except in America where psychos shoot up schools and people worry Obama will try to take their guns away.

I'm not in a tizzy.

I'm trying to be level headed and people seem to think I'm crazed for having an opinion

I agree about the US. You'd think they'd have figured it out by now

But don't for one second think the referendum wasn't democratic

I didn't say it wasn't democratic. But it's not our kind of democracy. We're a republic. We vote for a group of people to make our decisions for us.

I don't actually agree we should have had a Scottish Independence Referendum or a European Referendum - we shouldn't be making those decisions.

But because we did I was sure as hell going to vote.

Because the fact is if it had been left to the people we have voted in to make those decisions for us - as it should have been - the overwhelming majority would have said

A) Scotland stays in Britain

B) Britain stays in the EU

Fact.

And if both of those scenarios had been met I'd have been happy.

I only voted for Scotland to leave the UK because I was against the UK leaving the EU and I was convinced that was what was going to happen.

And I was right.

You might see me voting for Scottish Independence because I prefer remaining in he EU but I Really don't

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I voted to stay in the EU.However

I don't agree that Scotland were ripped out of EU by Westminster.

There are approx 4.2 million voters in Scotland.

Scotland voted 1.6 million to stay in the EU. That is not even half the voters in Scotland.

39 % of the leave voters were SNP supporters.

33 % of Scots love the EU so much they did not bother voting at all.

I just don't see this as a mandate for another tedious refarendum !!

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By *wiftiee OP Man over a year ago

near Glasgow

"I frighten you because we've got different political views? Must be terrifying leaving the house.

Not really. But just a couple of side questions.....

Do you know what an MEP is?

Do you know the name of yours?

Do you know the name of the person in charge of Europe?

Have you ever heard of the European Parliament?

Do you know what the European Parliament does?

Just wondering....because they've been making laws that the uk and Scotland have to abide by for years.

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By *wiftiee OP Man over a year ago

near Glasgow

"Yeah and not only have we had a say in them but we also sided with over 95% of them because they were... Sensible.

We've had a say in them??? I ask again, where in the world have you been living???

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By *anny77Man over a year ago

glasgow

"Yeah and not only have we had a say in them but we also sided with over 95% of them because they were... Sensible.

We've had a say in them??? I ask again, where in the world have you been living???"

Okay as a nation the people we have representing us have had a say in them.

Seriously you are taking pedantic to a new level

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I am like many people I think... I just wish they would stop bickering, ego stoking, oneupmanship, power tripping etc and work together to make THE WORLD a better place for EVERYONE. Our beautiful blue planet has amazing and bountiful resources, enough that no one should live in poverty or be hungry. Hey, I know I'm a dreamer but like Mr Lennon said, I'm not the only one... One day

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By *wiftiee OP Man over a year ago

near Glasgow

"Yeah and not only have we had a say in them but we also sided with over 95% of them because they were... Sensible.

We've had a say in them??? I ask again, where in the world have you been living???

Okay as a nation the people we have representing us have had a say in them.

Seriously you are taking pedantic to a new level"

To say that the people who represent us had a say, defies all that the EU stands for. It is run by people who have their own agenda, and that agenda has nothing to do with democracy. You obviously have no idea what the EU is about.

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By *ndykayMan over a year ago

Falkirk

"I am like many people I think... I just wish they would stop bickering, ego stoking, oneupmanship, power tripping etc and work together to make THE WORLD a better place for EVERYONE. Our beautiful blue planet has amazing and bountiful resources, enough that no one should live in poverty or be hungry. Hey, I know I'm a dreamer but like Mr Lennon said, I'm not the only one... One day

You aren't the only one...I wish for the same. Just don't think it will happen in my lifetime unfortunately

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By *ikerbob1957Man over a year ago

Glasgow

I just wish Sturgeon would get on with her £145,000 a year (plus expenses) day job. The country has the lowest educational standards in the UK, the merger of the Police forces was a massive mistake, the roads are dreadful, the councils are being starved of cash by the freeze on council tax rises. I could go on but all I see happening is Sturgeon embarrassing Scotland by flying round Europe trying to find someone of importance to talk to her about Brexit. It is not in remit as FM to deal with Brexit so she is squandering taxpayers' money on another vanity project.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You know... and please take this in the spirit it's offered... I know we need to debate and work things out... but this post just shows exactly how politics and politicians end up... lost in the mire of personal opinion instead of working on problems... maybe it's how it just is...

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By *andom2chatMan over a year ago

A Galaxy Far, Far Away & Spain

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By *andom2chatMan over a year ago

A Galaxy Far, Far Away & Spain

"You know... and please take this in the spirit it's offered... I know we need to debate and work things out... but this post just shows exactly how politics and politicians end up... lost in the mire of personal opinion instead of working on problems... maybe it's how it just is...

Also this. There is a Politics Forum for these debates (which is where this thread would be better off - for those that continually wish to debate these issues ad infinitum.)

Both sides are as bad as the other no matter which way anybody voted

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Also this. There is a Politics Forum for these debates (which is where this thread would be better off - for those that continually wish to debate these issues ad infinitum.)

Both sides are as bad as the other no matter which way anybody voted

Very much agreed but I do appreciate people are at least passionate about changing things and not apathetic... however I get disheartened when it degenerates into the argument being more important that reaching solutions... that's the politicians of course

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By *ewels74Woman over a year ago

Dundee/Angus/Blackpool

I had to constantly back track my thought process and place pretend masking tape over my mouth.

All I'm saying is....I'm going to place myself back in my bubble....and hide...don't come in unless your wanting to be naughty

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By *anny77Man over a year ago

glasgow

"Yeah and not only have we had a say in them but we also sided with over 95% of them because they were... Sensible.

We've had a say in them??? I ask again, where in the world have you been living???

Okay as a nation the people we have representing us have had a say in them.

Seriously you are taking pedantic to a new level

Is this some unofficial and clandestine knowledge? Because, as far as I'm aware all laws are voted on by the nation's Governments as well as the MEP's. If that doesn't give the UK a form of influence over EU law I must be missing your point completely.

Anyway I'm pretty much done with this. There's a reason the politics section is tucked away from here and I don't go looking for it.

I honestly don't mind someone having a different opinion to me - I just don't like the way you're talking to me. You're making me out to be some sort of moron whereas I haven't done or said anything to warrant your aggression except have a differing opinion.

So you win. Well played. I know nothing about the EU and I was wrong to not want Brexit.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This forum is generally very ill informed. Too eager to buy into all the right wing media bullshit.

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By *yldstyleWoman over a year ago

A world of my own

Politics brings out the worst in people.

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By *ilversunMan over a year ago

Cumbernauld

Here is my 5pence ir 5 unicorns should we get a new currency.

All media is biased and self serving. In my opinion the only way to get a balanced view is to read mulitple sources. Mainstream media and internet media (although i dont trust much internet media). I dont think there should be a second referendum although i voted yes the first time.

What does concern me is the cultural changes accross the uk. Scotland and England appear to want to travel in different directions socially. That will add further fuel to a wish of Scotland to control over its direction.

It seems enevitable to me that Scotland will be independent at some point in time.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ireland has just seen what being in the EU really means...you do what they tell you. Anyone dumb enough to sign up for that is welcome to it. Not in my name though.

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By *ola cubesMan over a year ago

coatbridge

"Politics brings out the worst in people. "
it amazes me how some are allowed to create political posts when admin moved all politics to its own section

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By *erfume-LoverMan over a year ago

Fife

I always see myself as British

I see the SNP as rockets

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By *eather47Woman over a year ago

Glasgow

each to their own but would folks PLEASE PLEASE listen to what is being said We will not get a vote for independence if the people dont want it but who else do we have to govern us never ever forget that Labour sold us down the river in the independance vote and as for Hooray Henrietta on the left side of nicola well there aint much that can be said there

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By *lixerMan over a year ago

Glasgow

I believe that Scotland is an nation, an ancient nation at that. All I want is that my nation be the same as most every other nation on Earth, ie a nation/state.

I want Scotland to be exactly the *same* as every other nation/state. No better, no worse, just the same.

What I want is just normal. What we have - the unequal 'United Kingdom'- is the abnormality in world politics.

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By *eather47Woman over a year ago

Glasgow

Also do folks know the Labour Party up here was told by the Labour Party at Westminster that they had to vote for better together And no im not making this up i have ben told by labour activists up here that was the case

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By *eather47Woman over a year ago

Glasgow

Alos heaven help Kesia she is like a lamb to the slaughter

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I always see myself as British

I see the SNP as rockets"

Best thing I've read on this thread

Love threads like this, know who to stay well away from hah!

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By *wiftiee OP Man over a year ago

near Glasgow

"Ireland has just seen what being in the EU really means...you do what they tell you. Anyone dumb enough to sign up for that is welcome to it. Not in my name though."

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By *wiftiee OP Man over a year ago

near Glasgow

"It seems enevitable to me that Scotland will be independent at some point in time. "

Independent, yes maybe, but independence isn't being ruled by Brussels.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"each to their own but would folks PLEASE PLEASE listen to what is being said We will not get a vote for independence if the people dont want it but who else do we have to govern us never ever forget that Labour sold us down the river in the independance vote and as for Hooray Henrietta on the left side of nicola well there aint much that can be said there

"
I personally dont trust ANY of our countrys political partys (if i'm totally honest) as far as i'm concerned every party that has been in power has promised us the world but never delivered !! But the SNP are on the verge of turning scotland into the same situation as our friends across the water. I've NEVER in my lifetime seen this country so divided !!! Yes, certainly the west coast has always been kinda divided due to football/religion but the SNP have took it to a whole new level !! When scotland said no in 2014 that should have been it, done and dusted !! But just like sinn fein in ireland, the SNP will never accept the electorates decision until they actually achieve independance and god help us if they ever do !!! Just look at the facts and figures just now from the SNP being in power. They have no other interest apart from being an independant country

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By *ockerMrBloggs6969Man over a year ago

nr you but not too near

Who cares,we'll always be minions

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By *andACouple over a year ago

glasgow

It would be reckless, financial madness to go for independece.

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By *wiftiee OP Man over a year ago

near Glasgow

"It would be reckless, financial madness to go for independece. "

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Blood pressure Bothy!!!

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By *lixerMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"It would be reckless, financial madness to go for independece. "

Where would we be in the world ranking, do you think? Given that the UK is 5th, it seems?

Why is Scotland uniquely incapable of being a normal nation, ringing our own till?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It would be reckless, financial madness to go for independece.

Where would we be in the world ranking, do you think? Given that the UK is 5th, it seems?

Why is Scotland uniquely incapable of being a normal nation, ringing our own till? "

Because we do not have a till worth bothering about anymore. Talented business people have left and are doing very nicely in the South East thank you.

Why return to Scotland and get nationalised to feed the SNP dream of a utopian society/communism?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It would be reckless, financial madness to go for independece.

Where would we be in the world ranking, do you think? Given that the UK is 5th, it seems?

Why is Scotland uniquely incapable of being a normal nation, ringing our own till? "

Because we do not have a till worth bothering about anymore. Talented business people have left and are doing very nicely in the South East thank you.

Why return to Scotland and get nationalised to feed the SNP dream of a utopian society/communism?

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By *wiftiee OP Man over a year ago

near Glasgow

"It would be reckless, financial madness to go for independece.

Where would we be in the world ranking, do you think? Given that the UK is 5th, it seems?

Why is Scotland uniquely incapable of being a normal nation, ringing our own till?

Because we do not have a till worth bothering about anymore. Talented business people have left and are doing very nicely in the South East thank you.

Why return to Scotland and get nationalised to feed the SNP dream of a utopian society/communism? "

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By *wiftiee OP Man over a year ago

near Glasgow

"Blood pressure Bothy!!!

It's all right, am taking the tablets!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"She needs to get a grip on running Scotland first."
no what she needs to do is fuck off and let some cunt a bit more capable in to do the job.

Fuck even I could do a better job than that boot.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"She needs to get a grip on running Scotland first.no what she needs to do is fuck off and let some cunt a bit more capable in to do the job.

Fuck even I could do a better job than that boot."

so?

who is more capable, who is more favourable in your eyes

Kezia Dugdale

Ruth Davidson

you really think either could do a better job should they be elected to do so?

they haven't got a hope in hell of being elected by the people of Scotland to take that position

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"She needs to get a grip on running Scotland first.no what she needs to do is fuck off and let some cunt a bit more capable in to do the job.

Fuck even I could do a better job than that boot.

so?

who is more capable, who is more favourable in your eyes

Kezia Dugdale

Ruth Davidson

you really think either could do a better job should they be elected to do so?

they haven't got a hope in hell of being elected by the people of Scotland to take that position "
look I'm not into politics,and who knows if they could do a better job or not,the point I was trying to make is that between her and Alex salmon, they have done to scotland what Cameron and his bunch of wankers done to the UK and made it weaker

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"She needs to get a grip on running Scotland first.no what she needs to do is fuck off and let some cunt a bit more capable in to do the job.

Fuck even I could do a better job than that boot.

so?

who is more capable, who is more favourable in your eyes

Kezia Dugdale

Ruth Davidson

you really think either could do a better job should they be elected to do so?

they haven't got a hope in hell of being elected by the people of Scotland to take that position look I'm not into politics,and who knows if they could do a better job or not,the point I was trying to make is that between her and Alex salmon, they have done to scotland what Cameron and his bunch of wankers done to the UK and made it weaker"

guess we will have to agree on disagreeing with each other there then

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"She needs to get a grip on running Scotland first.no what she needs to do is fuck off and let some cunt a bit more capable in to do the job.

Fuck even I could do a better job than that boot.

so?

who is more capable, who is more favourable in your eyes

Kezia Dugdale

Ruth Davidson

you really think either could do a better job should they be elected to do so?

guess we will have to agree on disagreeing with each other there then

"
absolutly

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By *andACouple over a year ago

glasgow

"It would be reckless, financial madness to go for independece.

Where would we be in the world ranking, do you think? Given that the UK is 5th, it seems?

Why is Scotland uniquely incapable of being a normal nation, ringing our own till? "

We would be well below the UK.

As for why is Scotland incapable of being independent, that's not what I said. To use an analogy though, your question is similar to asking why we can't both quit our jobs and survive as others are able to do so. So yes we could both quit and we'd still be able to get by but we'd be a whole lot poorer than we are now. So similar to independence, it would be financial madness.

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By *uietly_confident66Man over a year ago

Cirencester

"She needs to get a grip on running Scotland first. Let's tackle the poverty and crime and health and education first. It's what she was elected to do.

Then IF there's time, follow your pet projects.

see to get a grip on the poverty part we need to get away from England, just a fact"

how is that a "fact"? because you said it?

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By *ewels74Woman over a year ago

Dundee/Angus/Blackpool

Can we all just have a naked wrestling battle in the middle of a ring and some time out....but let's all get along and smile

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Also this. There is a Politics Forum for these debates (which is where this thread would be better off - for those that continually wish to debate these issues ad infinitum.)

Both sides are as bad as the other no matter which way anybody voted

Indeed there is a Politics Forum and there is also a Scotland Independence thread live on it right now where it seems Scotland is not too popular with the people of England who are commenting on that post, guess nothing has changed from days of past

Would it not be nice to see the countries of Scotland and England stand together as equals.

There is a difference between partnership and subordination.

The first encourages mutual respect. The second breeds resentment.

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By *omaMan over a year ago

Glasgow

all member countries in the EU have a Veto on any new application to join . Spain has said it will use its veto if Scotland applies. . . so , is it still to be

independence Nichola?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"all member countries in the EU have a Veto on any new application to join . Spain has said it will use its veto if Scotland applies. . . so , is it still to be

independence Nichola? "

I've purposely stayed well out of this thread, but this sort of misinformation needs addressed.

Spain has never said it would veto an independent Scotland. Rajoy said he would veto Scotland staying in the EU as part of the UK after brexit, but not as an independent country.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Also this. There is a Politics Forum for these debates (which is where this thread would be better off - for those that continually wish to debate these issues ad infinitum.)

Both sides are as bad as the other no matter which way anybody voted

Would it not be nice to see the countries of Scotland and England stand together as equals.

There is a difference between partnership and subordination.

The first encourages mutual respect. The second breeds resentment.

Agreed respect is earned before it is given - thanks for pointing out the post ... I commented

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It seems Politics in Fabswingers Forums breeds resentment between others..

I quite liked the idea of everyone getting naked .

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By *lixerMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"It would be reckless, financial madness to go for independece.

Where would we be in the world ranking, do you think? Given that the UK is 5th, it seems?

Why is Scotland uniquely incapable of being a normal nation, ringing our own till?

We would be well below the UK.

But it's not normal to quit your job. Being a nation/state is normal. I can't see why anyone wouldn't want to run their own nation. Who better? Westminster Tories?

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By *andom2chatMan over a year ago

A Galaxy Far, Far Away & Spain

"I always see myself as British

I see the SNP as rockets

Best thing I've read on this thread

Love threads like this, know who to stay well away from hah!"

Was this UNLOS Boris Johnston, Michael Gove or Nigel Farrage. Stuck around as long as the Three Brexiteers.

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By *andACouple over a year ago

glasgow

"It would be reckless, financial madness to go for independece.

Where would we be in the world ranking, do you think? Given that the UK is 5th, it seems?

Why is Scotland uniquely incapable of being a normal nation, ringing our own till?

We would be well below the UK.

But it's not normal to quit your job. Being a nation/state is normal. I can't see why anyone wouldn't want to run their own nation. Who better? Westminster Tories?"

We do run our own nation. You just happen to see our nation in a more parochial sense. Using your own logic do you believe all nations should split into their constituent parts? GB has been around longer than Germany, Italy or many other nations, should they break down to their pre-unification states with Prussia leaving Germany etc

If your main point is as you say 'being a nation/state is normal' then you're either suggesting all nations/states do the same and return to their individual nations and states or there must be other reasons why you believe Scotland should do this.

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By *lixerMan over a year ago

Glasgow

I'm not up on the constitution of Germany (etc) nor whether Prussia (etc) sees itself as a nation or not. But I do know that the German Federation is rather different to the UK. At a push, I would take full Federalism over the mess that is the UK.

I believe that every nation has the right to self determination and that, in time, Scotland will choose that path.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Also this. There is a Politics Forum for these debates (which is where this thread would be better off - for those that continually wish to debate these issues ad infinitum.)

Both sides are as bad as the other no matter which way anybody voted

Would it not be nice to see the countries of Scotland and England stand together as equals.

There is a difference between partnership and subordination.

The first encourages mutual respect. The second breeds resentment.

I am so sorry I went onto that forum now... grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If I hear Nicola Sturgeon say "independence" once more, I'll..................scream!

What is the point of getting independence from Westminster, then going 'cap in hand' to Brussels? Independence means independence, and going with the EU isn't independence!!"

which is the lesser of the two evils

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By *igD262Man over a year ago

glasgow

Yes for me

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

There's a politics page where opinions can be aired which seems a good idea, to keep dogmatic comments and intractible opinions from ALL sides OUT of an area's forum pages. Personally, I find them objectionable.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There's a politics page where opinions can be aired which seems a good idea, to keep dogmatic comments and intractible opinions from ALL sides OUT of an area's forum pages. Personally, I find them objectionable."

So why drag it up from six weeks ago...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Not by me.....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 14/10/16 09:02:56]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Not by me....."

Ahhh apologies was on my phone... and you are right there is a place lol

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By *uietly_confident66Man over a year ago

Cirencester

"She needs to get a grip on running Scotland first. Let's tackle the poverty and crime and health and education first. It's what she was elected to do.

Then IF there's time, follow your pet projects.

see to get a grip on the poverty part we need to get away from England, just a fact"

FACT???? Don't thinks so. How will that work then?

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By *omaMan over a year ago

Glasgow

IF Scotland did manage to join the EU would that mean having the Euro as currency? . .

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By *ndykayMan over a year ago

Falkirk

"IF Scotland did manage to join the EU would that mean having the Euro as currency? . . "

Good question. Everyone else who's joined has and yet they said we would keep the pound if we chose independence during the referendum.

Guess what? I don't think Nicola knows to be honest

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By *omaMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"IF Scotland did manage to join the EU would that mean having the Euro as currency? . .

Good question. Everyone else who's joined has and yet they said we would keep the pound if we chose independence during the referendum.

Guess what? I don't think Nicola knows to be honest

Also, with Scotland in the EU and the rest of the UK out That would surely mean Scotland has to give free movement of people, meaning border controls along the Scots/ English border. . . . .Imagine the chaos with the amount of freight that travels to and from the South. It may sound like bliss to many but it will be a nightmare for both Scotland and England. . . . get your visas ordered. . ))))

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By *ndykayMan over a year ago

Falkirk

Know what? There's so much up in the air at the moment.

It's all this uncertainty that helped Trump win in the US. Can you imagine what we could end up with? Alan Sugar? Joe Pasquale?

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By *omaMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"Know what? There's so much up in the air at the moment.

It's all this uncertainty that helped Trump win in the US. Can you imagine what we could end up with? Alan Sugar? Joe Pasquale?

Ha ha . .yeah and Angus Deaton as Minister for Sarcasm .

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By *ndykayMan over a year ago

Falkirk

"Know what? There's so much up in the air at the moment.

It's all this uncertainty that helped Trump win in the US. Can you imagine what we could end up with? Alan Sugar? Joe Pasquale?

Ha ha . .yeah and Angus Deaton as Minister for Sarcasm . "

And the chuckle brothers too

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"IF Scotland did manage to join the EU would that mean having the Euro as currency? . . "

The way things are going, the Euro may be the better option than the pound

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By *wiftiee OP Man over a year ago

near Glasgow

"IF Scotland did manage to join the EU would that mean having the Euro as currency? . .

The way things are going, the Euro may be the better option than the pound

Oh ye of little faith!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yes for me.

Get rid of the tory governments forever in Scotland.

Time for the "nawbags " to man up and think of their kids and granchildren.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Yes for me.

Get rid of the tory governments forever in Scotland.

Time for the "nawbags " to man up and think of their kids and granchildren."

I said that in 2014

now im not so sure,

im totally fucked off with SNP, and no other party in Scotland worth voting for

I detest most European countries, certainly wouldn't want them to have a say in the way Scotland is run, especially France, worked for a French company for long enough to detest them all

I like the fact Britain is going it alone, so another referendum, fuck, I may not even vote

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By *ndykayMan over a year ago

Falkirk

Steve...this is what a lot of people all over the world are thinking. Hence Trump.

Personally I've never yet met a politician who wasn't aiming to further their own career or legacy

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By *earded villainMan over a year ago

EDINBURGH

More yes than ever

Only way to stay in the eu was vote no mind that ?

Only way to save the nhs was vote no mind that

The vow mind that ?

Lied to with bullshit and bluster at every turn .

Yes there is questions that need answered yes there is things the yes campaign can do better . It certainly aint flawless .

Hoping for a solid campaign with supported facts and evidence this time around . Ideally a far stronger opposition party can emerge in an independant nation

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Steve...this is what a lot of people all over the world are thinking. Hence Trump.

Personally I've never yet met a politician who wasn't aiming to further their own career or legacy "

true

although I do have a lot of time for John Swinney, had a lot of dealings with him, attended lunches, sat in at meetings and I do have a lot of respect for him, he is very quiet spoken and takes time to sit and chat with everyone

still wont be voting snp again though, not until they change some of their policies

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By *wiftiee OP Man over a year ago

near Glasgow

"Steve...this is what a lot of people all over the world are thinking. Hence Trump.

Personally I've never yet met a politician who wasn't aiming to further their own career or legacy

true

still wont be voting snp again though, not until they change some of their policies "

Amen!

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By *ndykayMan over a year ago

Falkirk

I, like a lot of others, just wish the politicians would get on with fixing what's wrong in the health service, education system, help the old, sick and disabled and try and help people get jobs that are paid well enough so they can stand on their own two feet.

Only then should they try to fix the world.

Is that too much to ask??

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"She needs to get a grip on running Scotland first. Let's tackle the poverty and crime and health and education first. It's what she was elected to do.

Then IF there's time, follow your pet projects.

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By *vbride1963TV/TS over a year ago

E.K . Glasgow

"I, like a lot of others, just wish the politicians would get on with fixing what's wrong in the health service, education system, help the old, sick and disabled and try and help people get jobs that are paid well enough so they can stand on their own two feet.

Only then should they try to fix the world.

Is that too much to ask??

Seems yes

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By *uietly_confident66Man over a year ago

Cirencester

What in the vow has not been done. And who wants to stay in the eu anyway

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By *uietly_confident66Man over a year ago

Cirencester

The snp have the power NOW to save the NHS and alleviate poverty but they are not doing it

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By *uietly_confident66Man over a year ago

Cirencester

Who can blame him. Look at Greece

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By *earded villainMan over a year ago

EDINBURGH

"What in the vow has not been done. And who wants to stay in the eu anyway"

About 62% of those that voted ?

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By *awty MaxWoman over a year ago

Edinburgh

"The snp have the power NOW to save the NHS and alleviate poverty but they are not doing it"

I don't think 'any' parties want to tackle the NHS issues!

Such a mess from top to bottom!

Fixing bits here and there is not working!

It's a scrap the lot and redesign/rethink the whole system, and no one seems to want to do that!

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By *awty MaxWoman over a year ago

Edinburgh

"And who wants to stay in the eu anyway"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

official

That's my snp membership cancelled, no longer backing snp

****

Scotland's Brexit minister has said there are no circumstances in which SNP MPs would back triggering Article 50

*****

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"What in the vow has not been done. And who wants to stay in the eu anyway

About 62% of those that voted ? "

Less than half of the Scottish electorate.

33% thought the EU was so great they did not bother voting.

Given another EU vote I would still vote to remain in the EU.

This is not a mandate for indyref !!!

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By *eonardo Da VinciMan over a year ago

manchester

The SNP will reap the whirlwind! People are beginning to see through them and their fanaticism.

We have a united Island that is peaceful and relatively prosperous. There is no discrimination against Scottish people in the UK. The world wants to trade with us and the EU will strike a trade agreement with the UK also just watch.

Sturgeon and her minions position gets weaker each time she opens her mouth about Brexit and a second independence referendum. The polls clearly show that more and more people do not want this again, yet Sturgeon keeps Talking in absolutes about what Scotland wants!

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By *earded villainMan over a year ago

EDINBURGH

"What in the vow has not been done. And who wants to stay in the eu anyway

About 62% of those that voted ?

Less than half of the Scottish electorate.

33% thought the EU was so great they did not bother voting.

Given another EU vote I would still vote to remain in the EU.

This is not a mandate for indyref !!!"

Despite it clearly being within the snp manifesto at the election ? So she should ignore her own parties manifesto that people voted for overwhelmingly. Yeah that would go down a treat with the snp bad mob

The snp are far from perfect and have many policies i strongly disagree with . The obfa is my major irk however what is the alternative for someone who wishes self determination for their country ? A labour party in total disarray? Nothing would ever make me vote tory the latest been mundell statement that he is there not to represent scotland or its people but to support a tory goverment . Not for me im afraid .

A united island ? Lol that is truly hysterical that people believe it .

As before the yes campaign need some very stong answers on key matters . Currency etc to ease the doubts and hopefully our day will come where we can be responsible for our own

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

******Nothing would ever make me vote tory the latest been mundell statement that he is there not to represent scotland or its people but to support a tory goverment ******

do you have a link for this, I haven't heard about this and would like to read more, thanks for that info

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By *wiftiee OP Man over a year ago

near Glasgow

"The SNP will reap the whirlwind! People are beginning to see through them and their fanaticism.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I would vote for independence every time

Too many time we as a nation are getting shafted by our neighbours...

Just saw on the news last night...how many billions to be spent on doing up the houses of parliament?? Buckingham palace...big Ben...sorry...but these are in London...let London burgh pay for those..

And do not get me started on trident

Shocking!!!

17million spent on TESTING a fekn missile that went wrong and we are not told about it??

Yeah..the establishment are doing a grand job???

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By *wiftiee OP Man over a year ago

near Glasgow

"I would vote for independence every time

Too many time we as a nation are getting shafted by our neighbours...

Just saw on the news last night...how many billions to be spent on doing up the houses of parliament?? Buckingham palace...big Ben...sorry...but these are in London...let London burgh pay for those..

And do not get me started on trident

Shocking!!!

17million spent on TESTING a fekn missile that went wrong and we are not told about it??

Yeah..the establishment are doing a grand job???"

Sadly, you're missing ONE thing; The SCOTTISH establishment.

There isn't one? You're living in cloud cuckoo land!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So because you say it..

It's true?

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By *i_garyMan over a year ago

glasgow

"I would vote for independence every time

Too many time we as a nation are getting shafted by our neighbours...

Just saw on the news last night...how many billions to be spent on doing up the houses of parliament?? Buckingham palace...big Ben...sorry...but these are in London...let London burgh pay for those..

And do not get me started on trident

Shocking!!!

17million spent on TESTING a fekn missile that went wrong and we are not told about it??

Yeah..the establishment are doing a grand job???"

Let's unpick some of this to put a figure to it though. The Houses of Parliament are expected to cost around £6 billion. However, this is over a 32 year period so the annual bill works out at £189 million. Scotland's annual bill for this would therefore be £15 million, which is based on population share.

To give an idea of how that works in relative terms the UK parilaiment currently provides Scotland with a £9 billion annual fiscal transfer to cover our budget deficit. So we are benefitting hugely, not being shafted.

Also, with regards to the missile test costing £18 million, the Scottish govt has just spent £178 million on a computer sysem just to work out EU payments to farmers. It's £76 million over budget, will no longer do all the stuff it was supposed to and was responsible for the government facing fines of between £40m and £125m (from those lovely people at the EU) due to the delays it was causing with payments.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Computers don't kill anyone...missiles do

If let's say...Giles cathedral or bute house needed fixing...would the English government be willing to pay ?

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By *i_garyMan over a year ago

glasgow

"Computers don't kill anyone...missiles do

If let's say...Giles cathedral or bute house needed fixing...would the English government be willing to pay ?"

You could demolish and rebuild Giles Cathedral and Bute House many times over every year with the £9 billion fiscal transfer we receive. So yes is the answer.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

As apposed to the hundred billion for the palace the commons and the big clock that is hundreds of miles away ...the money you spk of is nothing to do with 'doing up' buildings that don't belong to us

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By *i_garyMan over a year ago

glasgow

"As apposed to the hundred billion for the palace the commons and the big clock that is hundreds of miles away ...the money you spk of is nothing to do with 'doing up' buildings that don't belong to us "

I've already explained that above. The work on the Houses of Parliament will cost Scotland £15 million per year. Considering the UK government currently tranfers an additional £9 billion a year to us I'd say we're doing incredibly well out of the deal.

Also, where are getting the idea they will cost Scotland hundreds of billions a year? What is your source?

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By *earded villainMan over a year ago

EDINBURGH

Tell me this gary . If we are the subsidy junkies and drain that youre claiming why keep us ? Why continue to plow money into this poor wee country that needs so much propping up ?

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By *i_garyMan over a year ago

glasgow

"Tell me this gary . If we are the subsidy junkies and drain that youre claiming why keep us ? Why continue to plow money into this poor wee country that needs so much propping up ?

Well first of all the figures don't lie, they come from the Scottish Govt no less. If you believe they are untrue then post an alternative along with a source and I'll look at it.

Secondly, government's don't generally go around looking to break up their country, or political union in this case. For example, I'm sure you'll agree that for many years the UK has poured billions into Northern Ireland, so why would it do this? Why would it continue to subsidise Wales? Indeed the South East of England actually subsidises the rest of England in terms of finances. This applies in nations all over the world

Thirdly, the final obvious answer is because the people voted against it.

One final point, I would never use the terms 'subsidy junkies', 'drain' or 'poor wee country'. They're emotive terms that distract from the facts.

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By *wiftiee OP Man over a year ago

near Glasgow

"I would vote for independence every time

Too many time we as a nation are getting shafted by our neighbours...

Just saw on the news last night...how many billions to be spent on doing up the houses of parliament?? Buckingham palace...big Ben...sorry...but these are in London...let London burgh pay for those..

And do not get me started on trident

Shocking!!!

17million spent on TESTING a fekn missile that went wrong and we are not told about it??

Yeah..the establishment are doing a grand job???

Ha......but that's FACTS that the SNP don't want you to reveal!!!

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By *ackan1Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Scotland has £100 trillions of oil plus whisky the U.K. Will not allow us to leave. But then again London has more millionaires then the hole of the UK

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By *wiftiee OP Man over a year ago

near Glasgow

"Scotland has £100 trillions of oil plus whisky the U.K. Will not allow us to leave. But then again London has more millionaires then the hole of the UK"

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By *alcon43Woman over a year ago

Paisley

"Scotland has £100 trillions of oil plus whisky the U.K. Will not allow us to leave. But then again London has more millionaires then the hole of the UK

It has £1.5 trillion according to the web. I'm sure the Scottish Government could spend that and still have nothing to show for it except shiny heels and a new suit!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

All said and done...

Britain is still run by some chick that no one voted in

My country however..is

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By *bi_scotlandTV/TS over a year ago

Glasgow

"All said and done...

Britain is still run by some chick that no one voted in

My country however..is

Didn't Sturgeon initially become FM after Salmond quit?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

To be honest the country is ran bya bunch of over paid idiots that we voted in my 8 year old son could do a better job

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By *wiftiee OP Man over a year ago

near Glasgow

"All said and done...

Britain is still run by some chick that no one voted in

My country however..is

Didn't Sturgeon initially become FM after Salmond quit?"

Just shows what the blind SNP supporters choose to believe, and conveniently forget!!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Excuse me...I'm not blind

Just because you don't agree does not make you right

We are not politicians and I'd say the majority if not all tell lies

US mere mortals will never know the real truth or half of the dodgy deals that go on

So please do not call me blind as my friend your just as blind as me !

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So many cry down and condemn the SNP, if you condemn, please at the same time state a person from Scottish Government of whom you think can do a better job

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I am a life long SNP voter and like many other's DO NOT want another Indy vote no matter what Nicola wants and her hangers on. If the people of Scotland the peopel Nicola is suppose to be serving the SNP would not have ended up with less seats in Holyrood after the Scottish elections than they had before it. Wake up Nicola does that not tell you something when you ran your whole campaign on Another vote. I voted to leave the majority voted to stay it's the majority that counts not just what you want Nicola.

P.S As for stopping Brexit happening you won't you will say all the right things to keep the hardcore nationalists happy but it won't happen.(Another vote which i lost but accept the majority vote.)

Jim Sillars said today what i have said even before the Sottish elections if there was a INDY vote anytime soon you would loose it again the Scottish electorate don't want to go through all that again.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"My one and only reason for voting yes at the last referendum was because I feared the UK would vote to leave Europe.

It doesn't mean I'm going to argue with anyone who doesn't. I won't. I promise

Yes you will your British Sir aren't you.Jo Cox said once she was shocked by the anger showed by people of this country to anybody who has a different view now do what your told and argue.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Again...

Majority of Scotland did not vote tory..but they got in

Majority of Scotland did not vote to leave the EU but we are

Says it all really

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

More than happy with the job snp are doing and will vote for them again in future elections

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By *vbride1963TV/TS over a year ago

E.K . Glasgow

"Again...

Majority of Scotland did not vote tory..but they got in

Majority of Scotland did not vote to leave the EU but we are

Says it all really

Majority of Scotland voted to stay in U.K. 55% roughly . Once in a generation vote for independence . Can't just use stats for the yes voters side . All this does is stir up division in the country I hope I'm not alone in wishing that other parties would get together and get Scotland's health and education services back to being one of the best in Europe if not the world .

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Correct but whoever Scotland votes for they will only have a small say on who forms the Westminster government. Your reply is the kin of answer i would expect from a strong Nationalist the Scottish electorate voted to stay part of the UK the UK vote to leave the EU and though it will affect us in a big way we must accept the majority vote. Before the last Scottish elections i said to Nicola Sturgeon the majority of Scottish voters do not want another vote UNLESS you can guarantee EU she couldn't membership and still can't.

If she can say to the Scottish people I CAN guarantee membership i think Scotland would vote Yes to Independence this time but at the moment nothing new is there to make people change the way they voted.

If there was another truly Scottish political who were not run by outside influences i'd probably vote for them cause i honestly believe Nicola is trying to laed Scotland down the road SHE wants not what the majority of the electorate want.

I watched the Labour Party in Scotland loose many of there core votes because they did not listen to what there people wanted just thinking NO this is what we want we stand for and if Nicola keeps up the same rhetoric it will happen to the SNP vote.

P.S You mentioned the Tories the party who made surprising gains at the Scottish elections while the SNP lost overall control of Holywood what do you think the message was that people were giving you.? (And i have never voted Tory in my life and never will but have the brains to stand back from the light and think for myself).

Nicola is now showing why i said long before she came on the scene that i could never be a card carrying member of any political party because they expect blind devotion to whatever they say much like the groups who are considered to have extreme views in this country.

Your part of the Flock follow me.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Again...

Majority of Scotland did not vote tory..but they got in

Majority of Scotland did not vote to leave the EU but we are

Says it all really

Scotland voted against both of those ...but it went ahead what I'm saying is our vote does not make a mark on the English vote...therefore we are unheard

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By *oandjohnCouple over a year ago

South Wales, will travel to Hereford, Worcestershire and Shropshire

Just trying to build her own ego imho..... I mean would you vote for her... said Scottish oil was going to fund the whole country giving it independence and within 6x month it was on its knees.

Lots of gonvernment jobs got closed down in England and moved to Scotland to help boost the economy over the last 20 years. Tax Office, Army manning records, Military ship building and operational bases. It would be a major ecconomic collapse if they all moved back to England.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yeah...and England's doing so much better?

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By *ackan1Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"Scotland has £100 trillions of oil plus whisky the U.K. Will not allow us to leave. But then again London has more millionaires then the hole of the UK

It has £1.5 trillion according to the web. I'm sure the Scottish Government could spend that and still have nothing to show for it except shiny heels and a new suit! "

Did you know the is oil under the Clyde as well was found over 30 years ago but did not have the tech to get it out as it would of cost to much

1.5 trillion between what 6million in the U.K. Seems like a good deal to me

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By *ackan1Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Sorry not the U.K. Meant to say Scotland

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By *andACouple over a year ago

glasgow

Some very damning figures released by the Scottish govt today for the SNP's EU strategy. We export £12bn to the EU but £50bn to the rest of the UK. So why is their argument all about the impact Brexit will have on us leaving the EU market when the impact Indy will have on us leaving the U.K. market will be over 4 times as damaging?

I think they've dropped the ball in terms of trying to frame an argument for independence in these terms.

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By *wiftiee OP Man over a year ago

near Glasgow

"Some very damning figures released by the Scottish govt today for the SNP's EU strategy. We export £12bn to the EU but £50bn to the rest of the UK. So why is their argument all about the impact Brexit will have on us leaving the EU market when the impact Indy will have on us leaving the U.K. market will be over 4 times as damaging?

I think they've dropped the ball in terms of trying to frame an argument for independence in these terms. "

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By *earded villainMan over a year ago

EDINBURGH

I think they've dropped the ball in terms of trying to frame an argument for independence in these terms. "

Why are they damming ? Surely these are positive figures showing a £1bn increase and also show tbat both markets are important . Moreso showing the value of our exports

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By *i_garyMan over a year ago

glasgow

[Removed by poster at 25/01/17 20:34:59]

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By *i_garyMan over a year ago

glasgow

I think they've dropped the ball in terms of trying to frame an argument for independence in these terms.

Why are they damming ? Surely these are positive figures showing a £1bn increase and also show tbat both markets are important . Moreso showing the value of our exports "

Not sure if Landa are around but it's pretty obvious. If your argument is that the solution to leaving a market you export £12 billion is to try to rejoin it and leave the market you export £50 billion to instead then there's a complete failure of logic there.

Also, not sure where you got the £1 billion figure from. Exports to the EU went up by £520 million, exports to the rest of the UK went up by £2.1 billion

One final thing that's also very important here. The Scottish Govts figures show all our exports from 2002 - 2015 and how much they've increased. I've listed them below

EU 2002 - £8.9 billion

EU 2015 - £12.3 billion

Rest of UK 2002 - £28.6 billion

Rest of UK 2015 - £49.8 billion

Rest of World 2002 - £11.4 billion

Rest of World 2015 - £16.4 billion.

This paints an even worse picture in terms of the SNP's plans.

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By *earded villainMan over a year ago

EDINBURGH

I think they've dropped the ball in terms of trying to frame an argument for independence in these terms.

Why are they damming ? Surely these are positive figures showing a £1bn increase and also show tbat both markets are important . Moreso showing the value of our exports

Also, not sure where you got the £1 billion figure from. Exports to the EU went up by £520 million, exports to the rest of the UK went up by £2.1 billion

One final thing that's also very important here. The Scottish Govts figures show all our exports from 2002 - 2015 and how much they've increased. I've listed them below

EU 2002 - £8.9 billion

EU 2015 - £12.3 billion

Rest of UK 2002 - £28.6 billion

Rest of UK 2015 - £49.8 billion

Rest of World 2002 - £11.4 billion

Rest of World 2015 - £16.4 billion.

This paints an even worse picture in terms of the SNP's plans."

So in an independant scotland we would just stop exporting to the rest of the uk ?

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By *i_garyMan over a year ago

glasgow

I think they've dropped the ball in terms of trying to frame an argument for independence in these terms.

Why are they damming ? Surely these are positive figures showing a £1bn increase and also show tbat both markets are important . Moreso showing the value of our exports

Also, not sure where you got the £1 billion figure from. Exports to the EU went up by £520 million, exports to the rest of the UK went up by £2.1 billion

One final thing that's also very important here. The Scottish Govts figures show all our exports from 2002 - 2015 and how much they've increased. I've listed them below

EU 2002 - £8.9 billion

EU 2015 - £12.3 billion

Rest of UK 2002 - £28.6 billion

Rest of UK 2015 - £49.8 billion

Rest of World 2002 - £11.4 billion

Rest of World 2015 - £16.4 billion.

This paints an even worse picture in terms of the SNP's plans.

So in an independant scotland we would just stop exporting to the rest of the uk ? "

So if we leave the EU we would just stop exporting to the EU?

Basically the argument cuts both ways, which invalidates the SNP's claim. It's a logical fallacy.

If the claim goes that Scotland would be in the EU and would continue to trade the same with the UK then that is a claim that EU trade will continue with the UK as normal following Brexit.

However we know that's unlikely, Britain's trading parternship with the EU will change post Brexit and if Scotland were a member of the EU it would also have to follow EU rules on trade.

Even the SNP can't deny that one which is why the spin they are trying to put on the figures today is all about the EU being 4 times as large as the UK while totally ignoring the actual export figures.

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By *earded villainMan over a year ago

EDINBURGH

I think they've dropped the ball in terms of trying to frame an argument for independence in these terms.

Why are they damming ? Surely these are positive figures showing a £1bn increase and also show tbat both markets are important . Moreso showing the value of our exports

Also, not sure where you got the £1 billion figure from. Exports to the EU went up by £520 million, exports to the rest of the UK went up by £2.1 billion

One final thing that's also very important here. The Scottish Govts figures show all our exports from 2002 - 2015 and how much they've increased. I've listed them below

EU 2002 - £8.9 billion

EU 2015 - £12.3 billion

Rest of UK 2002 - £28.6 billion

Rest of UK 2015 - £49.8 billion

Rest of World 2002 - £11.4 billion

Rest of World 2015 - £16.4 billion.

This paints an even worse picture in terms of the SNP's plans.

So in an independant scotland we would just stop exporting to the rest of the uk ?

So if we leave the EU we would just stop exporting to the EU?

Basically the argument cuts both ways, which invalidates the SNP's claim. It's a logical fallacy.

If the claim goes that Scotland would be in the EU and would continue to trade the same with the UK then that is a claim that EU trade will continue with the UK as normal following Brexit.

However we know that's unlikely, Britain's trading parternship with the EU will change post Brexit and if Scotland were a member of the EU it would also have to follow EU rules on trade.

So the upshot is that we dont actually know . Based on some sort of logic and sense and on the assumption independent scotland was still in the eu , the rest of the uk would be looking to arrange trade deals that would include scotland no ? Also All our exports would be credited to our export revenue .

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By *earded villainMan over a year ago

EDINBURGH

End of the day we can bat stuff back and forth till we are blue in the face .

Until the referendum is confirmed and the plan is put in place what an independant scotland would look like its all speculation .

As ive said before ive no doubt the mistakes and downful of the last campiagn wont be repeated .

For me the right to self determination is the main factor .i have no desire to live under tory rule and their right wing politics so please dont piss on my leg and try to tell me its raining .

On that note im done with this thread and debate on here . Your clearly an educated fella and back up any claims you make unlike the cheerleader with his pathetic jibes and generalisations .

All the best

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By *i_garyMan over a year ago

glasgow

I think they've dropped the ball in terms of trying to frame an argument for independence in these terms.

Why are they damming ? Surely these are positive figures showing a £1bn increase and also show tbat both markets are important . Moreso showing the value of our exports

Also, not sure where you got the £1 billion figure from. Exports to the EU went up by £520 million, exports to the rest of the UK went up by £2.1 billion

One final thing that's also very important here. The Scottish Govts figures show all our exports from 2002 - 2015 and how much they've increased. I've listed them below

EU 2002 - £8.9 billion

EU 2015 - £12.3 billion

Rest of UK 2002 - £28.6 billion

Rest of UK 2015 - £49.8 billion

Rest of World 2002 - £11.4 billion

Rest of World 2015 - £16.4 billion.

This paints an even worse picture in terms of the SNP's plans.

So in an independant scotland we would just stop exporting to the rest of the uk ?

So if we leave the EU we would just stop exporting to the EU?

Basically the argument cuts both ways, which invalidates the SNP's claim. It's a logical fallacy.

If the claim goes that Scotland would be in the EU and would continue to trade the same with the UK then that is a claim that EU trade will continue with the UK as normal following Brexit.

However we know that's unlikely, Britain's trading parternship with the EU will change post Brexit and if Scotland were a member of the EU it would also have to follow EU rules on trade.

You're missing the obvious flaw in the SNP argument though. There are only 2 possible outcomes:

1) They are claiming we're being ripped out of the single market so if the EU trade deal with the UK when it leaves has no impact then Scotland doesn't lose out in anyway by being in the UK. That makes all the hysteria about leaving pointless

2) If the EU impose tariffs and barriers then everyone loses out on the trade deal and an independent Scotland will be hit worst, given how huge it's trade with the UK is compared to anything else, by the EU imposed conditions.

Out of the 2 scenarios we know from the EU that the first one won't happen as the UK isn't willing to accept free movement so the second scenario will happen and would mean indy Scotland paying a high price to retain £12 billion free trade at the expense of £50 billion of free trade.

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By *i_garyMan over a year ago

glasgow

"End of the day we can bat stuff back and forth till we are blue in the face .

Until the referendum is confirmed and the plan is put in place what an independant scotland would look like its all speculation .

As ive said before ive no doubt the mistakes and downful of the last campiagn wont be repeated .

For me the right to self determination is the main factor .i have no desire to live under tory rule and their right wing politics so please dont piss on my leg and try to tell me its raining .

On that note im done with this thread and debate on here . Your clearly an educated fella and back up any claims you make unlike the cheerleader with his pathetic jibes and generalisations .

All the best

The discussion has been civil which can only be a good thing in these divisive times.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Scotland has £100 trillions of oil plus whisky the U.K. Will not allow us to leave. But then again London has more millionaires then the hole of the UK

It has £1.5 trillion according to the web. I'm sure the Scottish Government could spend that and still have nothing to show for it except shiny heels and a new suit!

Did you know the is oil under the Clyde as well was found over 30 years ago but did not have the tech to get it out as it would of cost to much

1.5 trillion between what 6million in the U.K. Seems like a good deal to me "

I work at sea and have heard this story since 1979.

I am still waiting for a job on an oil supply ship on the Clyde.

Lol companies did test for oil but did not persue it any further.

If you owned an oil company which is easier, drilling in the deep water of the North sea or the sheltered waters of the Clyde ?

I hope they start drilling soon as I am thinking of retirement and am looking forward to seeing all this mythical oil.

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By *vbride1963TV/TS over a year ago

E.K . Glasgow

"Scotland has £100 trillions of oil plus whisky the U.K. Will not allow us to leave. But then again London has more millionaires then the hole of the UK

It has £1.5 trillion according to the web. I'm sure the Scottish Government could spend that and still have nothing to show for it except shiny heels and a new suit!

Did you know the is oil under the Clyde as well was found over 30 years ago but did not have the tech to get it out as it would of cost to much

1.5 trillion between what 6million in the U.K. Seems like a good deal to me

I work at sea and have heard this story since 1979.

I am still waiting for a job on an oil supply ship on the Clyde.

Lol companies did test for oil but did not persue it any further.

If you owned an oil company which is easier, drilling in the deep water of the North sea or the sheltered waters of the Clyde ?

I hope they start drilling soon as I am thinking of retirement and am looking forward to seeing all this mythical oil."

Might get bumped into by Russian or American subs in the Clyde

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By *wiftiee OP Man over a year ago

near Glasgow

" For me the right to self determination is the main factor .i have no desire to live under tory rule and their right wing politics so please dont piss on my leg and try to tell me its raining. "

But the point is that you'll have no "right to self determination" under Brussels. You do as they say, a bunch of unelected bureaucrats, end of story!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Hate to go off at a tangent but caught a trailer for the new Tracy Ullman show starting soon and wee Nicola seems to have found her way into TU's repertoire. Can't wait to see what she does with her...love her Angela Merkel.

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By *hirefunguyMan over a year ago

Moray & Glasgow

" For me the right to self determination is the main factor .i have no desire to live under tory rule and their right wing politics so please dont piss on my leg and try to tell me its raining.

But the point is that you'll have no "right to self determination" under Brussels. You do as they say, a bunch of unelected bureaucrats, end of story!!

Just like we do as Westminster tell us to do with only one MP from Scotland in the government while the majority party representing Scotlands opinion and hence us are totally ignored?

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By *hirefunguyMan over a year ago

Moray & Glasgow

" For me the right to self determination is the main factor .i have no desire to live under tory rule and their right wing politics so please dont piss on my leg and try to tell me its raining.

But the point is that you'll have no "right to self determination" under Brussels. You do as they say, a bunch of unelected bureaucrats, end of story!!

Just like we do as Westminster tell us to do with only one MP from Scotland in the government while the majority party representing Scotlands opinion and hence us are totally ignored?

And don't forget the unelected House of Lords!!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

As long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under english rule. it is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for Freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself

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