FabSwingers.com > Forums > Virus > Covid - The weeping and wailing

Covid - The weeping and wailing

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I read many comments on here where people proudly declare that one death is too many and everyone but me is an irresponsible - - - - spreading death and suffering. So, given that the average age of those dying from covid is 83 and considering anyrhing else you want, please tell: how many livelihoods, bankruptcies, lost jobs, reposessed homes, displaced families is it fine to sacrifice to “save” each life. And following on, if you see yourself as some sort of moral saint exactly what percentage of your current income do you or will you give up to help these people ???? Hard figures please. Just wondering.

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By *ap d agde coupleCouple over a year ago

Herne Bay

"I read many comments on here where people proudly declare that one death is too many and everyone but me is an irresponsible - - - - spreading death and suffering. So, given that the average age of those dying from covid is 83 and considering anyrhing else you want, please tell: how many livelihoods, bankruptcies, lost jobs, reposessed homes, displaced families is it fine to sacrifice to “save” each life. And following on, if you see yourself as some sort of moral saint exactly what percentage of your current income do you or will you give up to help these people ???? Hard figures please. Just wondering. "
Well said await the answers

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By *reatformeatWoman over a year ago

my own bubble

I have recently lost my £60k a year job along with its company car and bonuses so fair to say Covid as had a massive impact on my life but If it saves just one life it’s worth it to me . You can’t put a price on anyone’s life .

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I have recently lost my £60k a year job along with its company car and bonuses so fair to say Covid as had a massive impact on my life but If it saves just one life it’s worth it to me . You can’t put a price on anyone’s life ."
. I didn’t ask that. I asked how many jobs is it ok to sacrifice.

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By *reatformeatWoman over a year ago

my own bubble

"I have recently lost my £60k a year job along with its company car and bonuses so fair to say Covid as had a massive impact on my life but If it saves just one life it’s worth it to me . You can’t put a price on anyone’s life .. I didn’t ask that. I asked how many jobs is it ok to sacrifice. "

And my answer is as many as it takes , the economy will sort it’s self out and people will find other jobs but once a loved ones gone they can’t be re placed

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

as many people as it takes being as genial as the person above.

i do agree that at some point they will have to throw caution to the wind to get the world economy moving again.. hopefully vaccs will allow this

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By *icecouple561Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

I don't know the answer. Looking at it purely as statistics and percentages, how many lives are worth how many livelihoods? That isn't a question I can answer. Looking at it on an individual basis, am I willing for one or both of my parents to die, or my partner or myself to save someone from losing their job and the answer is a resounding "no".

I think most people recognise that we're between a rock and a hard place. I'm glad I'm not the one making the decisions.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I have recently lost my £60k a year job along with its company car and bonuses so fair to say Covid as had a massive impact on my life but If it saves just one life it’s worth it to me . You can’t put a price on anyone’s life .. I didn’t ask that. I asked how many jobs is it ok to sacrifice.

And my answer is as many as it takes , the economy will sort it’s self out and people will find other jobs but once a loved ones gone they can’t be re placed"
. So basically you have no concern for destroyed businesses, jobs, families losing their homes etc etc. Nice

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By *icecouple561Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

"I have recently lost my £60k a year job along with its company car and bonuses so fair to say Covid as had a massive impact on my life but If it saves just one life it’s worth it to me . You can’t put a price on anyone’s life .. I didn’t ask that. I asked how many jobs is it ok to sacrifice.

And my answer is as many as it takes , the economy will sort it’s self out and people will find other jobs but once a loved ones gone they can’t be re placed. So basically you have no concern for destroyed businesses, jobs, families losing their homes etc etc. Nice"

You asked a question, no need for sarcasm because you don't agree with the answer

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I have recently lost my £60k a year job along with its company car and bonuses so fair to say Covid as had a massive impact on my life but If it saves just one life it’s worth it to me . You can’t put a price on anyone’s life .. I didn’t ask that. I asked how many jobs is it ok to sacrifice.

It appears you have no concern for lives lost, OP.

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By *lansmanMan over a year ago

Sheffield

How does loosing your job save a life ?

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By *eavenscentitCouple over a year ago

barnstaple

I gave my both my physical and mental health to nurse people in the underfunded nhs.

I think those that choose or need to should shield and, the others allowed to get on with life.

It will take years to vaccinate all those that want it. Lockdowns clearly don't work, blaming each other is pointless.

The virus will mutate and be with us for years.

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By *ungblackbullMan over a year ago

scotland

How does loosing your job save a life ?"

Lockdown = job losses

Lockdown = reducing covid transmission

reducing transmission = saving lives

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By *irestorm 500Couple over a year ago

coventry

"I have recently lost my £60k a year job along with its company car and bonuses so fair to say Covid as had a massive impact on my life but If it saves just one life it’s worth it to me . You can’t put a price on anyone’s life .. I didn’t ask that. I asked how many jobs is it ok to sacrifice.

You asked a question, no need for sarcasm because you don't agree with the answer "

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By *rHotNottsMan over a year ago

Dubai

There has to be a trade off, but Boris doesn’t have the balls to say so. The long term damage won’t be his problem, he’ll be speaking at sine after dinner event for £10k while another government is making the toughest choices

Looking around at the state of the care home sector and general treatment of the old and poor by this government, and the tax breaks for the rich, it’s very clear this government don’t think life is sacred at all,

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By *alandNitaCouple over a year ago

Scunthorpe

I didn’t ask that. I asked how many jobs is it ok to sacrifice. "

How many people do you feel it is acceptable to kill to save a million jobs?

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By *lansmanMan over a year ago

Sheffield

How does loosing your job save a life ?

Lockdown = job losses

Lockdown = reducing covid transmission

reducing transmission = saving lives

Lockdown = job losses

Job losses = less tax

Less tax = less health care

Less health care = lives lost ...

Jesus ... just keeps going ..

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By *ab jamesMan over a year ago

ribble valley

Simple answer is losing life is much worse than losing jobs.

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By *lansmanMan over a year ago

Sheffield

"Simple answer is losing life is much worse than losing jobs. "

No simple answer unfortunately. Lives lost either way.

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By *icecouple561Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

"There has to be a trade off, but Boris doesn’t have the balls to say so. The long term damage won’t be his problem, he’ll be speaking at sine after dinner event for £10k while another government is making the toughest choices

No government thinks life is sacred. Well the lives of the common people anyway.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think the Virus section should be renamed The Hamster Wheel.

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By *ab jamesMan over a year ago

ribble valley

"Simple answer is losing life is much worse than losing jobs.

No simple answer unfortunately. Lives lost either way. "

OK. Most people expect to lose jobs now and then, always have done. It only means they have to get a new one. You don't die after redundancy. Just skint until the next job. Big deal

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By *ustfun 1984Man over a year ago

exeter

"I have recently lost my £60k a year job along with its company car and bonuses so fair to say Covid as had a massive impact on my life but If it saves just one life it’s worth it to me . You can’t put a price on anyone’s life .. I didn’t ask that. I asked how many jobs is it ok to sacrifice.

So basically you have no concern for lives lost nice

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By *hagTonightMan over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

I have always said that lockdowns are worse than the virus, cos it is about peoples livelihoods that are on the cards here.

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By *lansmanMan over a year ago

Sheffield

"Simple answer is losing life is much worse than losing jobs.

No simple answer unfortunately. Lives lost either way.

OK. Most people expect to lose jobs now and then, always have done. It only means they have to get a new one. You don't die after redundancy. Just skint until the next job. Big deal"

Its the mass job loss.. on top of brexit thats going to fuck us up . Its not the same.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"I have recently lost my £60k a year job along with its company car and bonuses so fair to say Covid as had a massive impact on my life but If it saves just one life it’s worth it to me . You can’t put a price on anyone’s life .. I didn’t ask that. I asked how many jobs is it ok to sacrifice. "

How many of other people's loved ones lives are you the op happy to sacrifice is the obvious counter argument..?

As with both sides the balance is the issue in how we get through this and the impacts long term across the board..

This will pass and some sectors will recover, others will prosper during and people being resilient will bounce back..

Those that survive clearly..

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Please. If you want to come on here claimung to be quite happy to have lost your £200,000 a year job if it saves one life; thats not the question. Do your grandstanding elsewhere

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By *i1971Man over a year ago

Cornwall

How does loosing your job save a life ?

Lockdown = job losses

Lockdown = reducing covid transmission

reducing transmission = saving lives

Lockdown = job losses

Job losses = less tax

Less tax = less health care

Less health care = lives lost ...

Jesus ... just keeps going .."

Agreed, but the one factor omitted is time, which is a variable reliant on people doing what was required of them such as not traveling/mixing etc.

We had been lucky in this part of the country to keep the positive cases low, but now the numbers are rising. Over the past few days household have been mixing indoors and we have plenty of people from tier 4 areas who have come down for their holidays. It's only going to increase the rates and prolong any restrictions.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

No government thinks life is sacred. Well the lives of the common people anyway. "

This..

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By *ab jamesMan over a year ago

ribble valley

"Simple answer is losing life is much worse than losing jobs.

No simple answer unfortunately. Lives lost either way.

OK. Most people expect to lose jobs now and then, always have done. It only means they have to get a new one. You don't die after redundancy. Just skint until the next job. Big deal

Its the mass job loss.. on top of brexit thats going to fuck us up . Its not the same. "

I remember mass job losses in the 80s. Including my own. I just picked myself up and got a new job. People weren't suicidal then.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think the Virus section should be renamed The Hamster Wheel."

Gemini you must feel like Sisyphus eternally damned to push the boulder up the hill every day.

Yes it's like a wheel but I salute your efforts.

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By *ungblackbullMan over a year ago

scotland

"I gave my both my physical and mental health to nurse people in the underfunded nhs.

I think those that choose or need to should shield and, the others allowed to get on with life.

It will take years to vaccinate all those that want it. Lockdowns clearly don't work, blaming each other is pointless.

The virus will mutate and be with us for years."

so much wrong with this post.

It will not take years to vaccinate. We vaccination about 15m in 10 weeks for flu. we need to administer 4x this number with 2 doses so that's 80 weeks. Of course, this is more than a year, however, there is absolutely no reason why the number of vaccinations can't be increased many times this number with a roll-out plan assuming supply is there. 1 in every 100 people in the UK is a nurse or GP. Each on vaccinates 2 people a day then that's the population vaccinated with 2 doses in 100 days.

The vaccine will work on this new mutation. It will carry on mutating and possibly mutate in a way that makes it less severe or even burn itself out. The vaccine will likely still identify it as covid 19.

Lockdowns clearly DO work. The dips in cases coincide with lockdowns. There are only 2 premier league clubs that are allowed spectators in their grounds at the moment. Liverpool and Everton. Why is this? Because they're in tier 2 which was only possible due to the strict measures that were put in place when rates were sky high.

It is true that lockdown has not eliminated the virus but this was not their aim. Their aim was to lower the R rate and to protect the NHS.

Getting on with life for the rest of us means rapid increases in transmission of a virus that, whilst not likely to kill us, put the NHS under so much strain that people will unnecessarily die. You really need to understand the cosequences of this.

Perhaps read the post by doubleswing2019 4 hours ago in this thread (including the comments being responded to):

https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/1105225

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By *mmabluTV/TS over a year ago

upton wirral

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By * Plus ECouple over a year ago

The South

If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem.

M has lost an entire years work with no prospect in the near future.

He's also signed off with depression.

If you asked him, he'd say it was worth it to save on life.

My question, is this yet another "say something provocative just to get a reaction thread", because it smells a bit like it.

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By *ustfun 1984Man over a year ago

exeter

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Please. If you want to come on here claimung to be quite happy to have lost your £200,000 a year job if it saves one life; thats not the question. Do your grandstanding elsewhere "

Is that not ironic given your entrenchment and what looks like a lack of ability to at least acknowledge the issue is more multi facetted than you have yet to accept or are completely unwilling to?

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By *ye-spyMan over a year ago

London

It depends how many lives have been saved by the lock down vs how many were lost because of the lock down.

I personally think the majority of excess deaths are caused by the lock down measures rather then covid.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Please. If you want to come on here claimung to be quite happy to have lost your £200,000 a year job if it saves one life; thats not the question. Do your grandstanding elsewhere "

Grandstanding? Oh and in defence of the previous poster it was a £60k a year job so you're just making yourself look (even more) stupid by misquoting her.

IMO anyone that puts the economy before human life needs to take a long hard look in the mirror. I've not worked in a year and 9 months of that is down to COVID and my line of work completely drying up. I've not been able to claim a penny in support but I've got a roof over my head and I can eat. I'm now having to apply for jobs way below my skillset but I know the economy will recover over time and we just have to make do to protect our loved ones and try and minimise the loss of life.

Do I want the economy to suffer? No. But I'd much rather we put the brakes on the pandemic and the only way to do that is by stopping the spread. Unfortunately it's an "either/or" situation and I'd rather be struggling financially for a relatively short period of time than be six feet under eternally.

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By *arklong88Man over a year ago

portslade

I'm glad you've given up car driving too,as there are about 1.3m deaths caused by road accidents each year worldwide.

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By * Plus ECouple over a year ago

The South

"It depends how many lives have been saved by the lock down vs how many were lost because of the lock down.

I personally think the majority of excess deaths are caused by the lock down measures rather then covid.

I suggest that's incorrect.

Explain the rise in cases before lockdown and the dip in cases after lockdown.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"It depends how many lives have been saved by the lock down vs how many were lost because of the lock down.

I personally think the majority of excess deaths are caused by the lock down measures rather then covid.

Until there's been about a year and the figures are looked at in detail we don't yet know what the impact has been in other areas..

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By *oriarty99Man over a year ago

London

40 year lad I know died of Covid

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

"Please. If you want to come on here claimung to be quite happy to have lost your £200,000 a year job if it saves one life; thats not the question. Do your grandstanding elsewhere "

That's exactly the question you asked...

" And following on, if you see yourself as some sort of moral saint exactly what percentage of your current income do you or will you give up to help these people ???? Hard figures please. Just wondering."

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By *limmatureguyMan over a year ago

Tonbridge

NICE currently sets the value of a quality adjusted year of life at about £30k (QALY). So we should spend about £1.2m to save a 40 year-old from dying but only about £300k to save a pensioner. The government set the value of a prevented fatality (VPF) at £1.8m.

The government looks like spending over £300 billion. You can do the maths.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

People are so fixated on the death part they think “recovery” means happy ever after..... for a lot of people it isn’t....

It is leaving a myriad of health problems people are now having to live with, and we don’t know how long they will last...

I know people who got it near the start and still don’t feel back to where they were

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By *lashnannieCouple over a year ago

Dundee

Having almost died from Covid complications this year and losing 90% of my income i can quite categorically say I prefer this outcome to being dead. Perhaps if people applied themselves to the rules and stopped thinking restrictions and facemasks are not for them we could be mostly beyond this like NZ, another island nation that pulled together and did it properly

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By * Plus ECouple over a year ago

The South

"Please. If you want to come on here claimung to be quite happy to have lost your £200,000 a year job if it saves one life; thats not the question. Do your grandstanding elsewhere "

I can't see where anyone's posted to say they're happy to have lost a £200,000 a year job.

Question for you OP, how many people are you happy to see die to protect one job?

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By *limmatureguyMan over a year ago

Tonbridge

"Please. If you want to come on here claimung to be quite happy to have lost your £200,000 a year job if it saves one life; thats not the question. Do your grandstanding elsewhere

That's exactly the question you asked...

We already give up a significant portion of our current income to help these people in the form of tax and national insurance to pay for the NHS. That's what it's there for.

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By *ap d agde coupleCouple over a year ago

Herne Bay

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

I think one of the (many) issues with the "can't we just ignore the virus and live and work like we used to" mentality is the lack of thought into potential consequences. So without some kind of behaviour checks (I'll not call it lockdown as it isn't close to a lockdown), the virus runs unchecked. Over time what are the consequences of 100k symptomatic infections per day.? How many hospitalisations? How many deaths? What other health provision is affected and at what cost?

There is no easy answer. And "lockdowns" may not be the answer now.... But ignoring this because a headline statistic of average age of death suits your argument isn't the answer either.

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By * Plus ECouple over a year ago

The South

Think we also have to add loss of Freedoms "

What freedoms have you lost?

I haven't lost any.

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By *ap d agde coupleCouple over a year ago

Herne Bay

Think we also have to add loss of Freedoms

What freedoms have you lost?

I haven't lost any.

E"
so you have lost no freedoms ? Really s??

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By *oggoneMan over a year ago

Derry

Think we also have to add loss of Freedoms

What freedoms have you lost?

I haven't lost any.

E so you have lost no freedoms ? Really s??"

Being asked to forgo certain activities as a temporary measure is not losing freedoms.

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By *assion and MoreCouple over a year ago

Here and There, Monaghan

Wrong question. It's a philosophy, a set of values, a moral code. You either have it or you don't. If you believe that individual life is important, you try to protect it.

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By *ap d agde coupleCouple over a year ago

Herne Bay

Think we also have to add loss of Freedoms

What freedoms have you lost?

I haven't lost any.

E so you have lost no freedoms ? Really s??

Being asked to forgo certain activities as a temporary measure is not losing freedoms."
Totally disagree ,our freedoms have been taken away from us at this moment

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By *oggoneMan over a year ago

Derry

Think we also have to add loss of Freedoms

What freedoms have you lost?

I haven't lost any.

E so you have lost no freedoms ? Really s??

Being asked to forgo certain activities as a temporary measure is not losing freedoms. Totally disagree ,our freedoms have been taken away from us at this moment "

Can you give any examples?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think the Virus section should be renamed The Hamster Wheel."
or the fish hook because everyone gets reeled in.

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By *ools and the brainCouple over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

"I have recently lost my £60k a year job along with its company car and bonuses so fair to say Covid as had a massive impact on my life but If it saves just one life it’s worth it to me . You can’t put a price on anyone’s life .. I didn’t ask that. I asked how many jobs is it ok to sacrifice. "

Is 70,000 death's not enough to justify the measure's or as you stated due to the average age as they are old it's okay?

I am totally not understanding this mentality of its doesn't matter if old people die.

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman over a year ago

On a mooch

"Wrong question. It's a philosophy, a set of values, a moral code. You either have it or you don't. If you believe that individual life is important, you try to protect it."

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By *oggoneMan over a year ago

Derry

"I have recently lost my £60k a year job along with its company car and bonuses so fair to say Covid as had a massive impact on my life but If it saves just one life it’s worth it to me . You can’t put a price on anyone’s life .. I didn’t ask that. I asked how many jobs is it ok to sacrifice.

Is 70,000 death's not enough to justify the measure's or as you stated due to the average age as they are old it's okay?

I am totally not understanding this mentality of its doesn't matter if old people die."

"There's no such thing as society" - A former UK PM. Maybe she was on to something there.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I have recently lost my £60k a year job along with its company car and bonuses so fair to say Covid as had a massive impact on my life but If it saves just one life it’s worth it to me . You can’t put a price on anyone’s life .. I didn’t ask that. I asked how many jobs is it ok to sacrifice.

Is 70,000 death's not enough to justify the measure's or as you stated due to the average age as they are old it's okay?

I am totally not understanding this mentality of its doesn't matter if old people die."

Out of them 70000 how many would have actually survived to this point even if covid wasn't about. we aren't talking 700000 healthy people it's some where like 68000 people with other problems and 2000 healthy people Have died

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I have recently lost my £60k a year job along with its company car and bonuses so fair to say Covid as had a massive impact on my life but If it saves just one life it’s worth it to me . You can’t put a price on anyone’s life .. I didn’t ask that. I asked how many jobs is it ok to sacrifice.

Is 70,000 death's not enough to justify the measure's or as you stated due to the average age as they are old it's okay?

I am totally not understanding this mentality of its doesn't matter if old people die."
. Totally missed the point. I simply asked an uncomfortable question that you don’t want to answer. So how much of your current income will you donate to help those who have lost their jobs ? Just moralising are we ?

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By *oncupiscence73Woman over a year ago

South

Seriously there are sooo many threads like this op maybe have a search of the forum before posting again there was one just last night.

Some people think casual sex and their freedom is more important than vulnerable people dying abs some people don’t. There you go.

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By *untwolancashireCouple over a year ago

Preston/Lancaster

The hokey-y lockdown system (in out in out spread it all about) does nothing to stop the spread of Covid, it may slow the spread & protect the NHS but if you want a lockdown to work we all have to lockdown till it goes, & that’s if it ever does. Now a complete lockdown means every one of us not just the few, now imagine the power station with no workers, then once the fuel for the generator at the hospital runs out, the tanker driver can’t deliver cause they are in lockdown too, how many die then, or will a few of us still have to risk it so some can lockdown? Don’t forget all of you who said one life is one to many, you shouldn’t expect me to risk my life for your. Simples

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By *andyfloss2000Woman over a year ago

ashford

"I have recently lost my £60k a year job along with its company car and bonuses so fair to say Covid as had a massive impact on my life but If it saves just one life it’s worth it to me . You can’t put a price on anyone’s life .. I didn’t ask that. I asked how many jobs is it ok to sacrifice.

And my answer is as many as it takes , the economy will sort it’s self out and people will find other jobs but once a loved ones gone they can’t be re placed"

But people are losing loved ones people are committing suicide because of losing their homes their jobs! And belive me living with the fall out from suicide is truly devastating! X

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

Think we also have to add loss of Freedoms

What freedoms have you lost?

I haven't lost any.

E so you have lost no freedoms ? Really s??

Being asked to forgo certain activities as a temporary measure is not losing freedoms. Totally disagree ,our freedoms have been taken away from us at this moment "

So again. What freedoms have been taken away from you?

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By *andyfloss2000Woman over a year ago

ashford

"Simple answer is losing life is much worse than losing jobs.

No simple answer unfortunately. Lives lost either way.

OK. Most people expect to lose jobs now and then, always have done. It only means they have to get a new one. You don't die after redundancy. Just skint until the next job. Big deal"

How very naive! X

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

"I have recently lost my £60k a year job along with its company car and bonuses so fair to say Covid as had a massive impact on my life but If it saves just one life it’s worth it to me . You can’t put a price on anyone’s life .. I didn’t ask that. I asked how many jobs is it ok to sacrifice.

Is 70,000 death's not enough to justify the measure's or as you stated due to the average age as they are old it's okay?

I am totally not understanding this mentality of its doesn't matter if old people die."

The irony being those over 70s have generally paid a shit load more into the nhs and public services and welfare, than the 40s and under... But fuck em anyway.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

How is the NHS holding up with no one working ? Shurley funding is going to be a issue eventually.

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

"I have recently lost my £60k a year job along with its company car and bonuses so fair to say Covid as had a massive impact on my life but If it saves just one life it’s worth it to me . You can’t put a price on anyone’s life .. I didn’t ask that. I asked how many jobs is it ok to sacrifice.

And my answer is as many as it takes , the economy will sort it’s self out and people will find other jobs but once a loved ones gone they can’t be re placed

But people are losing loved ones people are committing suicide because of losing their homes their jobs! And belive me living with the fall out from suicide is truly devastating! X"

Yes there are other dreadful consequences... So here's an idea. Let's all pull together. Stop spreading the virus and then we can do more normal things more quickly.

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By *oncupiscence73Woman over a year ago

South

"I have recently lost my £60k a year job along with its company car and bonuses so fair to say Covid as had a massive impact on my life but If it saves just one life it’s worth it to me . You can’t put a price on anyone’s life .. I didn’t ask that. I asked how many jobs is it ok to sacrifice.

And my answer is as many as it takes , the economy will sort it’s self out and people will find other jobs but once a loved ones gone they can’t be re placed

But people are losing loved ones people are committing suicide because of losing their homes their jobs! And belive me living with the fall out from suicide is truly devastating! X"

Then there needs to be more support put into place .... another failing of the government. It isn’t saves lives from covid and sacrifice others from suicide that’s not the only choice. This arsehole has fucked it up from day 1. Look to other countries - millions or billions has been put into supporting those affected - mental health teams, financial support to prioritise housing ... this lot? Nah ‘eat out to help out’ is the best they came up with. We are fighting a losing battle

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By *rincess PhoenixWoman over a year ago

Southampton

"Having almost died from Covid complications this year and losing 90% of my income i can quite categorically say I prefer this outcome to being dead. Perhaps if people applied themselves to the rules and stopped thinking restrictions and facemasks are not for them we could be mostly beyond this like NZ, another island nation that pulled together and did it properly"

I could not agree more. I was very lucky not to be hospitalised. I am left with lungs that don't work to their full capacity and really bad fatigue it's been 8mths! But I'm so thankful to be alive

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman over a year ago

On a mooch

"I have recently lost my £60k a year job along with its company car and bonuses so fair to say Covid as had a massive impact on my life but If it saves just one life it’s worth it to me . You can’t put a price on anyone’s life .. I didn’t ask that. I asked how many jobs is it ok to sacrifice.

Is 70,000 death's not enough to justify the measure's or as you stated due to the average age as they are old it's okay?

I am totally not understanding this mentality of its doesn't matter if old people die.

..... and if measures hadn’t been put in place to reduce the spread, how many do you think that figure would have been, personally it’s not a number I would like to know.

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By *rincess PhoenixWoman over a year ago

Southampton

"I have recently lost my £60k a year job along with its company car and bonuses so fair to say Covid as had a massive impact on my life but If it saves just one life it’s worth it to me . You can’t put a price on anyone’s life .. I didn’t ask that. I asked how many jobs is it ok to sacrifice.

And my answer is as many as it takes , the economy will sort it’s self out and people will find other jobs but once a loved ones gone they can’t be re placed

But people are losing loved ones people are committing suicide because of losing their homes their jobs! And belive me living with the fall out from suicide is truly devastating! X

Yes there are other dreadful consequences... So here's an idea. Let's all pull together. Stop spreading the virus and then we can do more normal things more quickly. "

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

I could not agree more. I was very lucky not to be hospitalised. I am left with lungs that don't work to their full capacity and really bad fatigue it's been 8mths! But I'm so thankful to be alive"

A question to someone who obviously had it pretty bad. What if anything have you been told about catching it again or any immunity you may or may not have?

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By *untwolancashireCouple over a year ago

Preston/Lancaster

[Removed by poster at 28/12/20 11:34:06]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It’s an interesting moral philosophy question for sure. I don’t know about figures or statistics but I firmly believe at this stage the ‘cure’ is worse than the disease. I’ve lost more friends and colleagues to suicide this year than I have to the virus. A direct knock on effect to lost jobs, destroyed businesses and broken families.

It’s interesting to see people taking the moral high ground and insisting that ‘one death is a death too many’. There are other killers out there that most people seem to have forgotten about entirely. I think the skewed perspective is largely down to a rabid media and a bigger middle ‘chattering’ class than we’ve ever had in this country. For example I’ve heard critics of lockdown using speed limits as an example of this skewed perspective. Thousands are killed on the roads each year even when Highway Code compliant. Where are the baying mobs demanding the speed limit is lowered from 70 to 60? People and the government are clearly willing to sacrifice those lives lost on Britain’s roads for the sake of a functioning and efficient economy. A 10mph reduction might sound like a little bit the knock on effect would be huge. Just find it all very interesting as an outside observer.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think one of the (many) issues with the "can't we just ignore the virus and live and work like we used to" mentality is the lack of thought into potential consequences. So without some kind of behaviour checks (I'll not call it lockdown as it isn't close to a lockdown), the virus runs unchecked. Over time what are the consequences of 100k symptomatic infections per day.? How many hospitalisations? How many deaths? What other health provision is affected and at what cost?

There is no easy answer. And "lockdowns" may not be the answer now.... But ignoring this because a headline statistic of average age of death suits your argument isn't the answer either. "

I really think they can't understand any of that. All they can see is 'elderly disposable people' dying. And that's ok because it doesn't affect them.

They don't like it when I suggest a cull of people over X age. Yet they are suggesting the same thing.

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By *ye-spyMan over a year ago

London

"It depends how many lives have been saved by the lock down vs how many were lost because of the lock down.

I personally think the majority of excess deaths are caused by the lock down measures rather then covid.

I suggest that's incorrect.

Explain the rise in cases before lockdown and the dip in cases after lockdown.

The first lock down started on 23rd of March and the rise in cases about the same time from what I have seen.

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By * Plus ECouple over a year ago

The South

Think we also have to add loss of Freedoms

What freedoms have you lost?

I haven't lost any.

E so you have lost no freedoms ? Really s??"

That's what I said, yes.

So, back to my question, what freedoms have you lost?

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By *ikilovesCCouple over a year ago

village life, closest main town inverness

The thing I don't get is... Why do some folks think the economy wouldn't have been wreaked anyway,

businesses ruined and people put out of work would have been the inevitable consequence had covid been allowed to run rampant and there wouldn't have been

the furlough/seiss support that has been put in place by governments.

Op - I'd say income is down by about a third for us personally,

Is it worth it to save lives, personally we would say, Yes!

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By *ools and the brainCouple over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

I wish people would grow up, no one is taking the moral high ground, simply following rules set in place by the government.

In the same way as I don't break the law, spout religious hatred, racism and other horrendous and illegal activities. But if you want to translate this as moral high ground crack on.

Fact is everyone is in the same boat one way or another we are all suffering.

But this constant one upmanship is frankly tiresome.

I don't know enough about suicide statistics to be able to comment, regardless I feel deeply sorry for anyone affected, the same way anyone hit financially and emotionally I feel for.

But I can't change the outcome of someone's mental health or financial status directly other than being charitable and compassionate.

However what I can do is follow the guidelines to help slow the spread of the virus and the impact on death's, financial impact on the NHS and the economy thus hopefully helping to get things back to normal as soon as possible, thus bringing an end to the virus as soon as possible.

Which means loss of income, suicide rates and death's due to other conditions not currently able to get treatment for will also stop.

So yes I'm going to take the moral high ground because it's pretty much all I can do.

Spouting statistics and trying to decide if old people are expendable against healthy people is something that we vote governments to make the choice o over, I am outraged and deeply upset for anyone affected by this current situation.

So I have said pretty much everything I want to say regards the virus and it's just a constant merry go round of opinions with the same arguments being regurgitated on an hourly basis.

I'm done with the debate as such as it is.

Some people will not change the way they think and I think it's a sad indictment of the way we treat each other today.

Bye

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The fact is that since February only 370 people under the age of 60 with no underlying conditions have died of Covid. Obviously tragic for those families but is this worth tanking our economy, wrecking peoples lives and mental health for? It's questionable to say the least.

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By *rincess PhoenixWoman over a year ago

Southampton

I could not agree more. I was very lucky not to be hospitalised. I am left with lungs that don't work to their full capacity and really bad fatigue it's been 8mths! But I'm so thankful to be alive

A question to someone who obviously had it pretty bad. What if anything have you been told about catching it again or any immunity you may or may not have? "

I was basically told wait and see! The downside to having it early on was no one knew anything about the virus. At first I was told you can't catch it again but that information was false and now I've been told if I get it again it will be even worse! I'm an essential worker now so get weekly tests at work which helps put my mind at rest

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman over a year ago

On a mooch

"The fact is that since February only 370 people under the age of 60 with no underlying conditions have died of Covid. Obviously tragic for those families but is this worth tanking our economy, wrecking peoples lives and mental health for? It's questionable to say the least. "

I’d put that question to the millions of individuals who have underlying health conditions or someone in their household does. Do you lock them and all of their households away just so the few can get on with their lives ? I think not

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By *sGivesWoodWoman over a year ago

ST. AUSTELL, CORNWALL

"I gave my both my physical and mental health to nurse people in the underfunded nhs.

I think those that choose or need to should shield and, the others allowed to get on with life.

It will take years to vaccinate all those that want it. Lockdowns clearly don't work, blaming each other is pointless.

The virus will mutate and be with us for years."

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By * Plus ECouple over a year ago

The South

"I wish people would grow up, no one is taking the moral high ground, simply following rules set in place by the government.

In the same way as I don't break the law, spout religious hatred, racism and other horrendous and illegal activities. But if you want to translate this as moral high ground crack on.

Fact is everyone is in the same boat one way or another we are all suffering.

But this constant one upmanship is frankly tiresome.

I don't know enough about suicide statistics to be able to comment, regardless I feel deeply sorry for anyone affected, the same way anyone hit financially and emotionally I feel for.

But I can't change the outcome of someone's mental health or financial status directly other than being charitable and compassionate.

Which means loss of income, suicide rates and death's due to other conditions not currently able to get treatment for will also stop.

So yes I'm going to take the moral high ground because it's pretty much all I can do.

So I have said pretty much everything I want to say regards the virus and it's just a constant merry go round of opinions with the same arguments being regurgitated on an hourly basis.

I'm done with the debate as such as it is.

Some people will not change the way they think and I think it's a sad indictment of the way we treat each other today.

Bye"

This. ^^^^

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By *untwolancashireCouple over a year ago

Preston/Lancaster

"I have recently lost my £60k a year job along with its company car and bonuses so fair to say Covid as had a massive impact on my life but If it saves just one life it’s worth it to me . You can’t put a price on anyone’s life .. I didn’t ask that. I asked how many jobs is it ok to sacrifice.

And my answer is as many as it takes , the economy will sort it’s self out and people will find other jobs but once a loved ones gone they can’t be re placed

But people are losing loved ones people are committing suicide because of losing their homes their jobs! And belive me living with the fall out from suicide is truly devastating! X

So the £133 billion NHS budget isn’t big enough

or the £13.5 billion debt write off hasn’t helped?

& the Nightingale hospitals still not being used?

To me that sounds like the managers at the NHS can’t do their jobs, after all the health executives at the NHS of which 6500 of them earn more than Boris does, he might be doing a crap job, but they are even worse they only have one job to do & have failed us all.

As for the furlough £43 billion so far, how much more money would you spend & where are you going to get the extra money from?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

What a ridiculous statement.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I wish people would grow up, no one is taking the moral high ground, simply following rules set in place by the government.

In the same way as I don't break the law, spout religious hatred, racism and other horrendous and illegal activities. But if you want to translate this as moral high ground crack on.

Fact is everyone is in the same boat one way or another we are all suffering.

But this constant one upmanship is frankly tiresome.

I don't know enough about suicide statistics to be able to comment, regardless I feel deeply sorry for anyone affected, the same way anyone hit financially and emotionally I feel for.

But I can't change the outcome of someone's mental health or financial status directly other than being charitable and compassionate.

Which means loss of income, suicide rates and death's due to other conditions not currently able to get treatment for will also stop.

So yes I'm going to take the moral high ground because it's pretty much all I can do.

So I have said pretty much everything I want to say regards the virus and it's just a constant merry go round of opinions with the same arguments being regurgitated on an hourly basis.

I'm done with the debate as such as it is.

Some people will not change the way they think and I think it's a sad indictment of the way we treat each other today.

Bye"

I didn’t suggest following the rules is taking the moral high ground. Anywhere. I’m surprised that’s what you’ve taken from my post but that’s on you, and it wasn’t what I was getting at. At all.

I was talking specifically about the stance of ‘one death is a death too many’ crowd. I personally see that as a hypocritical viewpoint for the reasons I outlined above. And in my own lived experience it comes from people largely unaffected by lockdown. But that’s personal experience for you. Everyone’s is different

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By *bzboy66Man over a year ago

Aberdeen

"I have recently lost my £60k a year job along with its company car and bonuses so fair to say Covid as had a massive impact on my life but If it saves just one life it’s worth it to me . You can’t put a price on anyone’s life .. I didn’t ask that. I asked how many jobs is it ok to sacrifice.

Is 70,000 death's not enough to justify the measure's or as you stated due to the average age as they are old it's okay?

I am totally not understanding this mentality of its doesn't matter if old people die."

Like everything in life the op's question is about choices. I maybe wouldn't have framed the question in such a harsh way, however he threw it out there like a hand grenade in a crowded room. So here goes.

We have choices every day in life, do we cross the road here or further down... both choices will have a risk and a positive or negative impact on where we are going. We may choose to cross early because the shop we need is just there and oops we get run over...Would have been better taking the long way there...

In respect of covid the current government or any government of this country is faced with an impossible task to please everyone...deaths v economy etc. Everyone has there thoughts on what is important for them and very often these will be completely at odds to others thinking.

How many have died from covid...we won't know that till the excess deaths figure is released and analysed. Some would have died anyway this year, covid just shortened things a little, some were taken far too early and some didn't died of covid at all.

I don't know what is an acceptable trade off, but there has to be a trade off, otherwise we would end up living in a total lock down like China imposed to eradicate the virus. Trouble here is that no one in the UK wants to go down that route & everyone breaks or bends the rules and then moans "its not fair" when caught. So unless we get a Taiwan attitude we are going to have to wait and hope for the vaccine to tame this outbreak. The virus isn't spreading by itself nor is it spread by the government, its spread by people...who obviously don't do as they are told. Otherwise it wouldn't be spreading.

New Zealand's solution was far easier the ours - it's so far from other countries they just had to stop the tourist flights coming in. Its beautiful but not exactly a world gateway plus with a population of 5m in an land as big as the UK.

I could go on but feel I need to stake my place in the vaccine queue.

Complaints on a post card please or by Telegraph...

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By *hickennchipsWoman over a year ago

up above the streets and houses

No it’s not, enough is enough. Time to try to get back to some sort of normality. These ridiculous lockdowns are damaging and ineffective. Carry on with the masks and hand washing etc and let’s just try to stop judging anyone who disagrees with the one life is too many brigade

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman over a year ago

On a mooch

What a ridiculous statement. "

Just as I find those that say let everyone just get on with life a ridiculous statement, as those dying or catching covid without underlying health conditions is so minimal

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By *heekydevil69Man over a year ago

Aberporth

Bollocks to covid 19 and bollocks to the government more people die from alcohol and cigarettes I dont see the government's doing much about that .unlike this virus that 99% of people recover from

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

What a ridiculous statement. "

Why?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's not about saving lives and the average age of 83 is neither here nor there - it's about preventing the NHS from being totally overwhelmed by patients. That's what it's all about. The lives saved are a bonus but the aim of the lockdowns etc is to protect the NHS.

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By *ungblackbullMan over a year ago

scotland

care to explain your understanding of an underlying health condition and the life expectancy of someone with such conditions?

I know a 10 year old girl diagnosed with type 1 diabetes. Whilst potential complications of the condition may in theory decrease her life expectancy by 10 years or so, advancements in treatments over the next 50 years or so will likely mean she will live as long as a "healthy" person.

If she caught covid and died, she would go down as a "under 60 with underlying health conditions" death even though, based on life expectancy estimates she should still have another 60 years of life and significant contribution.

Whilst this would be an extreme example, it does demonstrate that your stat is quite meaningless.

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By *heekydevil69Man over a year ago

Aberporth

Reason why NHS cant cope the government has been screwing them for years ask doctors and nurses if the government didn't our NHS could cope with anything

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's not about saving lives and the average age of 83 is neither here nor there - it's about preventing the NHS from being totally overwhelmed by patients. That's what it's all about. The lives saved are a bonus but the aim of the lockdowns etc is to protect the NHS. "

Maybe. But how long does it have to go on is the OP’s point. Seen plenty of evidence that even with the second wave the NHS is still below capacity.

And here I was thinking the NHS is supposed to look after the people, not the other way around. Strange days indeed.

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By *uadzillaMan over a year ago

Warwickshire

"I have recently lost my £60k a year job along with its company car and bonuses so fair to say Covid as had a massive impact on my life but If it saves just one life it’s worth it to me . You can’t put a price on anyone’s life .. I didn’t ask that. I asked how many jobs is it ok to sacrifice.

And my answer is as many as it takes , the economy will sort it’s self out and people will find other jobs but once a loved ones gone they can’t be re placed"

The OPs original question is how many jobs is it ok to sacrifice....the OP had a response didn't like the response hence why they asked it again. So OP here's a question to you how many lives gone you know dead, gone forever, grieving families, mental health of a losing someone are YOU willing to sacrifice to save a job ???

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By *ust some cock suckerMan over a year ago

Preston

"Simple answer is losing life is much worse than losing jobs.

No simple answer unfortunately. Lives lost either way. "

Exactly, people will unfortunately die either way

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Do you know what is defined as an underlying condition...

Something as simple as asthma, for example, drinking can lead to issues with liver, smoking can lead to issues with lungs, obesity, etc etc....

So the whole underlying issue is a nonsense

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By *tace 309TV/TS over a year ago

durham

The" I'm all right Jack brigade who currently still have, jobs,, homes, money etc. Have no idea what it is like when you have none of these,. It affects your health big style. It has a huge knock on effect. These, things, are, about to descend on us in wave after wave. The well off and comfortable ones will sail through this crisis but many more won't. Yes, some are dying directly from covid but so are many more because of it. I'm not well off but this Christmas I have donated money to the salvation army, Centrepoint, and the children's cancer charity. There are other things out there to think about apart from covid

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By *untwolancashireCouple over a year ago

Preston/Lancaster

The Nightingale hospitals have still not been used, the NHS keep insisting on taking COVID patients to normal hospitals instead of isolating people in the facilities built, it’s a bit like me taking a chip pan that’s on fire to a petrol station instead of a fire station. Or am I just to simplistic?

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By *ungblackbullMan over a year ago

scotland

"Bollocks to covid 19 and bollocks to the government more people die from alcohol and cigarettes I dont see the government's doing much about that .unlike this virus that 99% of people recover from "

So what do you suggest? Banning alcohol and cigarettes indefinitely? I'm sure people like you are the one going on about the government taking away out freedom at the moment.

If someone smokes or drinks and die as a result then they've only really got themselves to blame. Any one of us could pick up covid at the supermarket and die.

Cigarette packets have a VERY clear message on them about the dangers of smoking but people still smoke. These warnings aren't there be the choice of the manufacturers but there in law thanks to Governments.

So, back to my initial question...what do you suggest?

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By *hickennchipsWoman over a year ago

up above the streets and houses

It’s simplistic but is a fair point

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This for sure ^

There appears to be little to no application of common sense (expect no less from any government tho). Care homes is a great example of the level of ineptitude at play.

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By *tace 309TV/TS over a year ago

durham

This for sure ^

There appears to be little to no application of common sense (expect no less from any government tho). Care homes is a great example of the level of ineptitude at play. "
the care, homes fiasco was criminal. Whoever, decided to send infected people, back into the care, homes should be made, accountable for that.

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By *oggoneMan over a year ago

Derry

"I have recently lost my £60k a year job along with its company car and bonuses so fair to say Covid as had a massive impact on my life but If it saves just one life it’s worth it to me . You can’t put a price on anyone’s life .. I didn’t ask that. I asked how many jobs is it ok to sacrifice.

And my answer is as many as it takes , the economy will sort it’s self out and people will find other jobs but once a loved ones gone they can’t be re placed

Lives Vs Livelihoods, that's a tough one.

I'm reminded of an expression, there's no such thing as the richest man in the cemetery.

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By *ungblackbullMan over a year ago

scotland

Maybe. But how long does it have to go on is the OP’s point. Seen plenty of evidence that even with the second wave the NHS is still below capacity.

And here I was thinking the NHS is supposed to look after the people, not the other way around. Strange days indeed. "

The NHS is below capacity in the 2nd wave because, just like the first wave, the transmission of the virus is being restricted to prevent such as situation. That's the whole point of lockdowns!

The NHS is supposed to look after people but it can only do that under normal circumstances.

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By *uadzillaMan over a year ago

Warwickshire

Do you know what is defined as an underlying condition...

Something as simple as asthma, for example, drinking can lead to issues with liver, smoking can lead to issues with lungs, obesity, etc etc....

So the whole underlying issue is a nonsense "

Mate I've been trying to out the underlying conditions and I totally agree with you, the whole underlying conditions things is crazy, people think that it has to be something serious....it isn't mild asthma is one and obesity is but also being overweight is too, they have also added arthritis to the list

arthritis ? The majority of the country has some form of arthritis they just don't know it

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By *uadzillaMan over a year ago

Warwickshire

This for sure ^

There appears to be little to no application of common sense (expect no less from any government tho). Care homes is a great example of the level of ineptitude at play. the care, homes fiasco was criminal. Whoever, decided to send infected people, back into the care, homes should be made, accountable for that. "

Agree and they are STILL doing it, in November 373 recovering covid patients were sent back to care homes just under 100 of them were not actually living there they were sent there to recover and they were still positive.

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By *bzboy66Man over a year ago

Aberdeen

Very good point well made..

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By *untwolancashireCouple over a year ago

Preston/Lancaster

"Reason why NHS cant cope the government has been screwing them for years ask doctors and nurses if the government didn't our NHS could cope with anything "

£133.3 billion budget, £13.5 billion debt written off, really is this underfunded?

How many NHS doctors do know that are poor or won’t have at least £60k per year pension to enjoy from the age of 55?

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By *ye-spyMan over a year ago

London

The average age of mortality is 82 and the majority of people who have died of covid are 82.4 + and have 3.6 comorbidities.

Some people have not been able to go to hospital and died of cancer and other illnesses and some have gone blind.

The american government increased the USD by 21% in 2020 and that will probably kill more people than covid.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Maybe. But how long does it have to go on is the OP’s point. Seen plenty of evidence that even with the second wave the NHS is still below capacity.

And here I was thinking the NHS is supposed to look after the people, not the other way around. Strange days indeed.

The NHS is below capacity in the 2nd wave because, just like the first wave, the transmission of the virus is being restricted to prevent such as situation. That's the whole point of lockdowns!

The NHS is supposed to look after people but it can only do that under normal circumstances.

Meanwhile preventable illnesses begin to soar. Less folk going to hospital for life saving treatment...there’s always a cost. Like suggested further up the thread - why not isolate covid patients in separate facilities? Colour me suspicious but I’ve heard it mentioned on several podcasts now that trusts get more funding the more covid patients they accept. I know that’s certainly the case in the US. Why aren’t/can’t they apply a common sense approach? I’d be inclined to believe it’ll be down to money, like everything else.

Can’t wait for the public enquiry.

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By *ungblackbullMan over a year ago

scotland

This for sure ^

There appears to be little to no application of common sense (expect no less from any government tho). Care homes is a great example of the level of ineptitude at play. "

Perhaps there are reasons that you don't have insight into? That's usually the reason and not that others who do have more awareness lack common sense.

Resourcing a Nightingale hospital takes away resources from other hospitals that are stretched.

Maybe this helps? Perhaps British Medical Association leader Dr Chaand Nagpaul does have common sense?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55413831

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

I could not agree more. I was very lucky not to be hospitalised. I am left with lungs that don't work to their full capacity and really bad fatigue it's been 8mths! But I'm so thankful to be alive

A question to someone who obviously had it pretty bad. What if anything have you been told about catching it again or any immunity you may or may not have?

Yes I was discussing with a police friend who had caught it... And he had been told by plod health that he is MORE vulnerable now. Which is contrary to the earlier fxxxbook info about being immune now.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I gave my both my physical and mental health to nurse people in the underfunded nhs.

I think those that choose or need to should shield and, the others allowed to get on with life.

It will take years to vaccinate all those that want it. Lockdowns clearly don't work, blaming each other is pointless.

The virus will mutate and be with us for years."

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I have recently lost my £60k a year job along with its company car and bonuses so fair to say Covid as had a massive impact on my life but If it saves just one life it’s worth it to me . You can’t put a price on anyone’s life .. I didn’t ask that. I asked how many jobs is it ok to sacrifice.

And my answer is as many as it takes , the economy will sort it’s self out and people will find other jobs but once a loved ones gone they can’t be re placed

"
. I’m simply inrigued by the often seen message that basically any price is worth paying to save a life. My question is how far is anyone prepared to go in taking that view. It has nothing to do with my personal experiences or even my own view point. It’s simply a question i’ve put out there.

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By *dsindyTV/TS over a year ago

East Lancashire

Some posts on this thread seem to "imply" that as long as the economy is ok, then people dying is the price paid for it.

If this is so, welcome to the dystopian future.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This for sure ^

There appears to be little to no application of common sense (expect no less from any government tho). Care homes is a great example of the level of ineptitude at play.

Perhaps there are reasons that you don't have insight into? That's usually the reason and not that others who do have more awareness lack common sense.

Resourcing a Nightingale hospital takes away resources from other hospitals that are stretched.

Maybe this helps? Perhaps British Medical Association leader Dr Chaand Nagpaul does have common sense?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55413831

So what’s stopping covid staff from hospitals moving to nightingales to treat covid patients? At least the infected are isolated. It still doesn’t resolve the issue of non covid patients not being treated but at least the infection is isolated and out of mainstream hospital environments. Common sense .

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By * Plus ECouple over a year ago

The South

"Bollocks to covid 19 and bollocks to the government more people die from alcohol and cigarettes I dont see the government's doing much about that .unlike this virus that 99% of people recover from "

You're not comparing eggs with eggs.

If you drink yourself to oivion, I won't catch it.

If you smoke so much your lungs fail and you die a slow crippling death from cancer, I won't catch it.

Those are puerile and ridiculous comparisons.

I'll go with your 99% of people recover, the 1% that won't is 78 million. So if you're happy with that, crack on.

If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem.

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By *andyfloss2000Woman over a year ago

ashford

"I have recently lost my £60k a year job along with its company car and bonuses so fair to say Covid as had a massive impact on my life but If it saves just one life it’s worth it to me . You can’t put a price on anyone’s life .. I didn’t ask that. I asked how many jobs is it ok to sacrifice.

And my answer is as many as it takes , the economy will sort it’s self out and people will find other jobs but once a loved ones gone they can’t be re placed

But people are losing loved ones people are committing suicide because of losing their homes their jobs! And belive me living with the fall out from suicide is truly devastating! X

Yes there are other dreadful consequences... So here's an idea. Let's all pull together. Stop spreading the virus and then we can do more normal things more quickly. "

U have totally missed my point!! X

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

Seems like it would have been better for OP to have made their own statement on this and opened for discussion. Though it could have been appended to the many other threads that have bewailed the almost inconvenient illness, suffering and tragic deaths of millions of people, due to the disruption to their own business as usual lifestyle.

Naturally, we lived in the open, without clothes and foraged for our foods. Anything beyond that is a luxury. Most people will give up most or all of their assets to save loved ones and some strangers, from disabilities and death. I think that is reasonable. I think it's the mark of maturity that we are willing to forego things, for the greater good. The selfish will always find everything is too high a cost, when they don't personally gain. We need to have patience, when we are towards the end of this problem. Vaccines and new prophylactic treatments are where you should be putting your investment, alongside better health care for all. This epidemic has also shown that the poorer suffer more, so there must be a levelling up, with those of us who are better off having to invest more in the wellbeing of the many. You've not started paying yet, if you think it's too expensive.

Until we are homeless and have nothing to eat, we are living a life of luxury.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Bollocks to covid 19 and bollocks to the government more people die from alcohol and cigarettes I dont see the government's doing much about that .unlike this virus that 99% of people recover from

You're not comparing eggs with eggs.

If you drink yourself to oivion, I won't catch it.

If you smoke so much your lungs fail and you die a slow crippling death from cancer, I won't catch it.

Those are puerile and ridiculous comparisons.

I'll go with your 99% of people recover, the 1% that won't is 78 million. So if you're happy with that, crack on.

If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem.

I wonder if covid was just an sti if things would be different.

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By *hickennchipsWoman over a year ago

up above the streets and houses

I wonder if people didn’t believe everything the media threw in their faces things would be different? Are you telling me people actually trust the government to be 100% honest? Come on!

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By *heekydevil69Man over a year ago

Aberporth

If it's so bad why isn't ther whole nations wiped out the poor countrys that have no medical services the population riddled with HIV and aids starving ther immune system would be none existing youd think by now total fatalities world wide would be many millions higher but it's not there isnt 4000 people a day dying in the uk alone which the uk government said would happen and we've got an nhs to help us

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

How many lives is your job worth sacrificing for, especially as you're not considering giving up your life?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Seems like it would have been better for OP to have made their own statement on this and opened for discussion. Though it could have been appended to the many other threads that have bewailed the almost inconvenient illness, suffering and tragic deaths of millions of people, due to the disruption to their own business as usual lifestyle.

Until we are homeless and have nothing to eat, we are living a life of luxury. "

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

"If it's so bad why isn't ther whole nations wiped out the poor countrys that have no medical services the population riddled with HIV and aids starving ther immune system would be none existing youd think by now total fatalities world wide would be many millions higher but it's not there isnt 4000 people a day dying in the uk alone which the uk government said would happen and we've got an nhs to help us"

I think you've replaced finding and understanding credible scientific evidence and data with empty conjecture. Many treatments have been introduced that now save thousands of lives. It's 1 reason that hospitals remain busy, as patients are surviving to a far greater extent

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

Fact is the NHS has for the past thirty years been reduced by successive governments..

Fact is there are not enough staff to have both the nightingales and the main hospitals staffed, there wasn't at the high in April and there's more pressures on the current numbers of staff now..

The course of how the government is handling this is set and not about to to change, and yes they have made mistakes..

The main fact is if we change tack now with the new variant the numbers will overwhelm the NHS which is creaking at the moment..

So we can all argue as much as we like about this and that but the undeniable truth is that this current 'strategy' is how it is and we have to get through it and we will do..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don't know the answer. Looking at it purely as statistics and percentages, how many lives are worth how many livelihoods? That isn't a question I can answer. Looking at it on an individual basis, am I willing for one or both of my parents to die, or my partner or myself to save someone from losing their job and the answer is a resounding "no".

I think most people recognise that we're between a rock and a hard place. I'm glad I'm not the one making the decisions. "

100% this

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By *untwolancashireCouple over a year ago

Preston/Lancaster

This for sure ^

There appears to be little to no application of common sense (expect no less from any government tho). Care homes is a great example of the level of ineptitude at play.

Perhaps there are reasons that you don't have insight into? That's usually the reason and not that others who do have more awareness lack common sense.

Resourcing a Nightingale hospital takes away resources from other hospitals that are stretched.

Maybe this helps? Perhaps British Medical Association leader Dr Chaand Nagpaul does have common sense?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55413831

The NHS have had over a year to get ready for this. yet haven’t had time to refute staff or train them? for the hospitals that have been built within that time to deal with it. When will someone decide to train them, once they are full? again there are 6500 NHS staff on more than the PM. All experts every one of them, they’ve all got it wrong at some point, not all good solutions come from experts, the most effective solutions are the simplest

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Please. If you want to come on here claimung to be quite happy to have lost your £200,000 a year job if it saves one life; thats not the question. Do your grandstanding elsewhere "

seemed to me it was exactly your question (how much you willing to give up out your own pocket?)

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By *untwolancashireCouple over a year ago

Preston/Lancaster

I think most people recognise that we're between a rock and a hard place. I'm glad I'm not the one making the decisions.

100% this

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By *untwolancashireCouple over a year ago

Preston/Lancaster

"Fact is the NHS has for the past thirty years been reduced by successive governments..

Fact is there are not enough staff to have both the nightingales and the main hospitals staffed, there wasn't at the high in April and there's more pressures on the current numbers of staff now..

The course of how the government is handling this is set and not about to to change, and yes they have made mistakes..

The main fact is if we change tack now with the new variant the numbers will overwhelm the NHS which is creaking at the moment..

So we can all argue as much as we like about this and that but the undeniable truth is that this current 'strategy' is how it is and we have to get through it and we will do.."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I have recently lost my £60k a year job along with its company car and bonuses so fair to say Covid as had a massive impact on my life but If it saves just one life it’s worth it to me . You can’t put a price on anyone’s life .. I didn’t ask that. I asked how many jobs is it ok to sacrifice.

And my answer is as many as it takes , the economy will sort it’s self out and people will find other jobs but once a loved ones gone they can’t be re placed

But people are losing loved ones people are committing suicide because of losing their homes their jobs! And belive me living with the fall out from suicide is truly devastating! X"

i don’t mean this to come across as blunt as it does but not sure how else to word it

suicide is a choice (and it wont be 100% down to lockdown) , covid is contagious and you don’t get the choice thereafter if you live or die

suicide is devastating for those impacted but it is not a contagious pandemic level disease and can still be prevented while measures are in place for covid... there is no direct correlation of an either or scenario here

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By *ungblackbullMan over a year ago

scotland

This for sure ^

There appears to be little to no application of common sense (expect no less from any government tho). Care homes is a great example of the level of ineptitude at play.

Perhaps there are reasons that you don't have insight into? That's usually the reason and not that others who do have more awareness lack common sense.

Resourcing a Nightingale hospital takes away resources from other hospitals that are stretched.

Maybe this helps? Perhaps British Medical Association leader Dr Chaand Nagpaul does have common sense?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55413831

Train them for what? Boris said that the everything would be normal by Christmas.

Train them with what? Training costs money.

The nightingale hospital were just a publicity stunt by this useless government.

Train who to do what? A year isn't a long time to train someone to keep people alive.

Perhaps the simplest and most effective is the one they have now?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"How is the NHS holding up with no one working ? Shurley funding is going to be a issue eventually."

and when the virus runs rampant how would it hold up (now not eventually) with all the staff home sick or in the beds themselves?

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By *ungblackbullMan over a year ago

scotland

The 4000 a day was based on not acting. When will people like you understand that scenarios like this don't happen because of the actions that are taken to prevent it from happening.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

chicken and egg really because the purpose of saving he NHS is to save lives

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By *ungblackbullMan over a year ago

scotland

This for sure ^

There appears to be little to no application of common sense (expect no less from any government tho). Care homes is a great example of the level of ineptitude at play.

Perhaps there are reasons that you don't have insight into? That's usually the reason and not that others who do have more awareness lack common sense.

Resourcing a Nightingale hospital takes away resources from other hospitals that are stretched.

Maybe this helps? Perhaps British Medical Association leader Dr Chaand Nagpaul does have common sense?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55413831

Covid spreads in hospitals and it's not just because people go in with it. Patients with non-covid symptoms, staff who have picked it up elsewhere etc. It's not possibly to make hospitals covid free. It is possible to isolate covid patients in covid wards and protect the staff.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It’s simplistic but is a fair point

its overly simplistic, for it to work we would need to be trying to staff both the petrol station and the fire station from the same bank of people , with not enough bodies to man both

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By *untwolancashireCouple over a year ago

Preston/Lancaster

This for sure ^

There appears to be little to no application of common sense (expect no less from any government tho). Care homes is a great example of the level of ineptitude at play.

Perhaps there are reasons that you don't have insight into? That's usually the reason and not that others who do have more awareness lack common sense.

Resourcing a Nightingale hospital takes away resources from other hospitals that are stretched.

Maybe this helps? Perhaps British Medical Association leader Dr Chaand Nagpaul does have common sense?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55413831

Train them for what? Boris said that the everything would be normal by Christmas.

Train them with what? Training costs money.

The nightingale hospital were just a publicity stunt by this useless government.

Train who to do what? A year isn't a long time to train someone to keep people alive.

Perhaps the simplest and most effective is the one they have now?"

Well obviously if you believe what a fool tells you, I can see why you have a problem lol

Nhs started training, training staff back in March for the Nightingales. But who is training the trainers that are training the trainees?

They have been built, they are real, they are not a set for a soap.

A year is plenty enough time to up skill people & bring img others to replace them.

I know blame Boris it works every time lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I have recently lost my £60k a year job along with its company car and bonuses so fair to say Covid as had a massive impact on my life but If it saves just one life it’s worth it to me . You can’t put a price on anyone’s life .. I didn’t ask that. I asked how many jobs is it ok to sacrifice.

And my answer is as many as it takes , the economy will sort it’s self out and people will find other jobs but once a loved ones gone they can’t be re placed"

Most selfish looking people cannot see this as it's two steps in front of their feet. Also most of them don't like change least of all cope with it, but it's a bubble they live in of denial until the shoe is on the other foot.

Life is a constant change, jobs come and go and come back again. Lives go and never return. You can't take a car, house or job with you. If anyone has been by the bedside of someone who is in their last few days, you never hear them calling for for their work colleagues or ask someone to bring work in for them to do but for loved ones. Death is a wake up call to what matters, some find it too late and never get to experience the joys of what really matters.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

This for sure ^

There appears to be little to no application of common sense (expect no less from any government tho). Care homes is a great example of the level of ineptitude at play.

Perhaps there are reasons that you don't have insight into? That's usually the reason and not that others who do have more awareness lack common sense.

Resourcing a Nightingale hospital takes away resources from other hospitals that are stretched.

Maybe this helps? Perhaps British Medical Association leader Dr Chaand Nagpaul does have common sense?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55413831

Train them for what? Boris said that the everything would be normal by Christmas.

Train them with what? Training costs money.

The nightingale hospital were just a publicity stunt by this useless government.

Train who to do what? A year isn't a long time to train someone to keep people alive.

Perhaps the simplest and most effective is the one they have now?

Well obviously if you believe what a fool tells you, I can see why you have a problem lol

Nhs started training, training staff back in March for the Nightingales. But who is training the trainers that are training the trainees?

They have been built, they are real, they are not a set for a soap.

A year is plenty enough time to up skill people & bring img others to replace them.

I know blame Boris it works every time lol

The training takes three years, that's for a nurse..

ICU/high dependacy takes longer..

And that's assuming there was a whole extra tranche over and above the norm with the additional trainers, resources etc sat waiting..

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By * Plus ECouple over a year ago

The South

"Please. If you want to come on here claimung to be quite happy to have lost your £200,000 a year job if it saves one life; thats not the question. Do your grandstanding elsewhere

seemed to me it was exactly your question (how much you willing to give up out your own pocket?) "

Yup.

Ask a question, get an answer, then abuse the person who gave a specific answer to the specific question. Weird.

Not that anyone said £200,000 in the first place. More weird.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This for sure ^

There appears to be little to no application of common sense (expect no less from any government tho). Care homes is a great example of the level of ineptitude at play.

Perhaps there are reasons that you don't have insight into? That's usually the reason and not that others who do have more awareness lack common sense.

Resourcing a Nightingale hospital takes away resources from other hospitals that are stretched.

Maybe this helps? Perhaps British Medical Association leader Dr Chaand Nagpaul does have common sense?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55413831

I didn’t say it would eliminate covid from hospitals tho did I? Again, all I’m talking about is the application of common sense. A proper procedure for isolating covid patients away from main hospitals would lower the risk to other hospital staff and users

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By *untwolancashireCouple over a year ago

Preston/Lancaster

It’s simplistic but is a fair point

its overly simplistic, for it to work we would need to be trying to staff both the petrol station and the fire station from the same bank of people , with not enough bodies to man both"

So we should just keep making the same mistake, are you one of those people that keep putting their hand in the fire & wonder why they get burnt? Or did you just make the mistake once & learn from it. Why send a COVID patient to infect none Covid patients. They have the staff my daughter was moved from cancer care to critical care ward because no cancer patients coming in, she wasn’t keen but like she said it’s her job & the SIMPLEST solution at the time. See it can be done

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The 4000 a day was based on not acting. When will people like you understand that scenarios like this don't happen because of the actions that are taken to prevent it from happening."

Actually the 4000 a day was based on the tier system and why valance stated we needed a lockdown.

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By *entlemanrogueMan over a year ago

Motherwell

Government especially a Tory government only care about what they can pocket for themselves and rich associates.

The governement donr qork for the people, unless they are rich funders of said party.

its a simple fact.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It’s simplistic but is a fair point

its overly simplistic, for it to work we would need to be trying to staff both the petrol station and the fire station from the same bank of people , with not enough bodies to man both

when did i say keep making the same mistakes? i just said the comparison being made way over simplified the problem

it takes more than transferring a couple of nurses to staff an entire new hospital, and that new hospital isn’t even fully equipped for all emergency situations

we arent sticking covid patients on general wards or having nurses in a covid ward in the morning then chuck them over to cancer after lunch

we already have segregation within the hospitals , hospitals which are fully staffed and have all the required equipment ... thats already the simplest solution to the problem

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By *uadzillaMan over a year ago

Warwickshire

"I have recently lost my £60k a year job along with its company car and bonuses so fair to say Covid as had a massive impact on my life but If it saves just one life it’s worth it to me . You can’t put a price on anyone’s life .. I didn’t ask that. I asked how many jobs is it ok to sacrifice.

And my answer is as many as it takes , the economy will sort it’s self out and people will find other jobs but once a loved ones gone they can’t be re placed

. I’m simply inrigued by the often seen message that basically any price is worth paying to save a life. My question is how far is anyone prepared to go in taking that view. It has nothing to do with my personal experiences or even my own view point. It’s simply a question i’ve put out there. "

Fair enough I see your point but what is your personal view point then

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By *ames_LondonMan over a year ago

Deal

I find the lack of critical thinking on this thread worrying and emblematic of the issue as a whole. Someone suggesting that they don’t mind losing their highly paid job if it saves a single life is such an absurd statement bound in privilege and lack of empathy. Some people are worried about losing their jobs because they will not be able to get another one, become homeless, not be able to afford their child’s education etc. If you can lose your job and not worry, then of course you can care about a single life. And what life is it you are caring about? The 95 year old who only has months to live or the 70 year old with 20 good years? What about the 9 year old with leukaemia who is not getting tested? Is the 95 year old really equally important? Why are the cancer wards empty? How many will die from lack of treatment? You may not like it but the government has to make these calculations. Perhaps people might be more scared of losing their job if they didn’t think the job market will return to its previous state. A new normal may see millions of jobs permanently redundant. Being asked to stay at home is not giving up freedom? Well maybe not in your opinion this time but where do you draw the line? What about if there is a virus that’s half as deadly as this one? What about a quarter as deadly? Why don’t we lock down during flu season every year? What about if the government ordered lockdown to stop protests about something you care about? How can China be good for enforcing brutal lockdowns for Covid but bad for enforcing curfews to stop human rights protests?

To be clear, I am not advocating for more or less lockdown, it just annoys me that no one can see that the people who want less lockdown are not necessarily being selfish or vice versa. Some of the greatest atrocities in human history are a result of populations not questioning their government.

To be honest, I don’t think any government has done a good job on Covid, but ours is probably the worst. The mixed messaging, the errors in presentation of data, the corrupt contracts, the behaviour of people in a position of responsibility on both sides that contradicts the messaging and the avoidance of parliamentary scrutiny are leading us down a very dark path.

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By *andyfloss2000Woman over a year ago

ashford

"I have recently lost my £60k a year job along with its company car and bonuses so fair to say Covid as had a massive impact on my life but If it saves just one life it’s worth it to me . You can’t put a price on anyone’s life .. I didn’t ask that. I asked how many jobs is it ok to sacrifice.

And my answer is as many as it takes , the economy will sort it’s self out and people will find other jobs but once a loved ones gone they can’t be re placed

Of course jobs come and go! But u usually find another b 4 u loose the one u have and maybe your house ! Which can lead to losing your life! It's not really black and white is it?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

What exactly is the alternative? How many deaths would you be happy with to just let it run wild? Chances are when the hospitals are overwhelmed and the deaths rocket, businesses would be affected anyway when people get scared at what manifests.

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By *andyfloss2000Woman over a year ago

ashford

"Simple answer is losing life is much worse than losing jobs.

No simple answer unfortunately. Lives lost either way.

OK. Most people expect to lose jobs now and then, always have done. It only means they have to get a new one. You don't die after redundancy. Just skint until the next job. Big deal

Its the mass job loss.. on top of brexit thats going to fuck us up . Its not the same.

I remember mass job losses in the 80s. Including my own. I just picked myself up and got a new job. People weren't suicidal then. "

Ohh dear! Face palm !!

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By *untwolancashireCouple over a year ago

Preston/Lancaster

It’s simplistic but is a fair point

its overly simplistic, for it to work we would need to be trying to staff both the petrol station and the fire station from the same bank of people , with not enough bodies to man both

when did i say keep making the same mistakes? i just said the comparison being made way over simplified the problem

it takes more than transferring a couple of nurses to staff an entire new hospital, and that new hospital isn’t even fully equipped for all emergency situations

we arent sticking covid patients on general wards or having nurses in a covid ward in the morning then chuck them over to cancer after lunch

we already have segregation within the hospitals , hospitals which are fully staffed and have all the required equipment ... thats already the simplest solution to the problem "

No one said nurses get moved from cancer ward to icu ward & back at the drop of a hat.

But maybe you could explain what the 6500 NHS executives, directors, & managers that are paid more than Boris have been doing since March when they started training people to train people to work in the Nightingale hospitals.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I find the lack of critical thinking on this thread worrying and emblematic of the issue as a whole. Someone suggesting that they don’t mind losing their highly paid job if it saves a single life is such an absurd statement bound in privilege and lack of empathy. Some people are worried about losing their jobs because they will not be able to get another one, become homeless, not be able to afford their child’s education etc. If you can lose your job and not worry, then of course you can care about a single life. And what life is it you are caring about? The 95 year old who only has months to live or the 70 year old with 20 good years? What about the 9 year old with leukaemia who is not getting tested? Is the 95 year old really equally important? Why are the cancer wards empty? How many will die from lack of treatment? You may not like it but the government has to make these calculations. Perhaps people might be more scared of losing their job if they didn’t think the job market will return to its previous state. A new normal may see millions of jobs permanently redundant. Being asked to stay at home is not giving up freedom? Well maybe not in your opinion this time but where do you draw the line? What about if there is a virus that’s half as deadly as this one? What about a quarter as deadly? Why don’t we lock down during flu season every year? What about if the government ordered lockdown to stop protests about something you care about? How can China be good for enforcing brutal lockdowns for Covid but bad for enforcing curfews to stop human rights protests?

you say you dont advocate for one of the other, but then only attribute lack of critical thinking to one side of the argument

its abundant on both sides of the fence where people can only see misery from lost lives or misery from lost jobs

the truth is the balance needs to be somewhere in the middle where unfortunately we will lose some, perhaps even many of both... finding that optimum balance is most likely impossible and why no matter what camp you sit in you probably think the government failed you

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

apart from NZ which has more sheep than people and is as much at the end of the earth as you can get this is a world wide problem and not the fault of anyone government. We need a world wide solution... bit like climate change

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 28/12/20 14:39:52]

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By *hocolateRodMan over a year ago

London and over UK

"I have recently lost my £60k a year job along with its company car and bonuses so fair to say Covid as had a massive impact on my life but If it saves just one life it’s worth it to me . You can’t put a price on anyone’s life .. I didn’t ask that. I asked how many jobs is it ok to sacrifice. "

Happy to sacrifice your life?

Feel free

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It’s simplistic but is a fair point

its overly simplistic, for it to work we would need to be trying to staff both the petrol station and the fire station from the same bank of people , with not enough bodies to man both

when did i say keep making the same mistakes? i just said the comparison being made way over simplified the problem

it takes more than transferring a couple of nurses to staff an entire new hospital, and that new hospital isn’t even fully equipped for all emergency situations

we arent sticking covid patients on general wards or having nurses in a covid ward in the morning then chuck them over to cancer after lunch

we already have segregation within the hospitals , hospitals which are fully staffed and have all the required equipment ... thats already the simplest solution to the problem

No one said nurses get moved from cancer ward to icu ward & back at the drop of a hat.

its already been explained further up, that training doesn’t happen overnight and the plan was never to use these hospitals instead of the existing ones anyway, it was to train up extra if they were required for an overspill... a bit like the army reserves

i guess with all your expertise we should just sack these 6500 staff, and you can replace the lot of them

im not saying all the decisions the nhs are making are correct, but there are people paid todo this planning, who will have looked at and disregarded multiple options

you as an outsider thinking something looks like the simplest option so its stupid they havent done it would be like me knocking through my living room to the kitchen because i want more space , for a qualified builder to come tell me sorry love that was load bearing

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

When you talk about people not getting tested for cancer etc... Do you know why cancer wards are closed are they closed? How would taking no action over covid prevent this. The hospitals would still be forced to postpone treatments to deal with covid patients, there would be more. Covid patients as well. They would be more doctors and nurses taken ill by infection as well. so the situation would be worse. The problem is a lack of capacity to do both.

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By *ungblackbullMan over a year ago

scotland

It’s simplistic but is a fair point

its overly simplistic, for it to work we would need to be trying to staff both the petrol station and the fire station from the same bank of people , with not enough bodies to man both

when did i say keep making the same mistakes? i just said the comparison being made way over simplified the problem

it takes more than transferring a couple of nurses to staff an entire new hospital, and that new hospital isn’t even fully equipped for all emergency situations

we arent sticking covid patients on general wards or having nurses in a covid ward in the morning then chuck them over to cancer after lunch

we already have segregation within the hospitals , hospitals which are fully staffed and have all the required equipment ... thats already the simplest solution to the problem

No one said nurses get moved from cancer ward to icu ward & back at the drop of a hat.

Have you ever thought that perhaps the Prime Minister's salary is what's wrong and not what others are paid?