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Italy, Germany, Poland
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Italy were first country to lockdown. Critics of our government pointed to this as "the right thing" to do. They have been far harsher there than here.. and yet... now locking down again as cases pass 25000 a day and rising!
Germany...cases rising exponentially again. Poland the same...highest number of cases since last year. The latter 2 being cited as mainly due to school kids spreading it among families and friends (#superspreaders).
Other central/eastern European countries are also seeing rises in cases.
Will we see the same as our kids return to school? Will our far better vaccination programme prevent this?
This thing isn't over till it's over!!! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"It doesnt seem to make sense but it seems the harsher the lockdown, the worse the country has suffered.
Maybe theres some way of transmission weve missed ?"
Kids!!?? |
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"Italy were first country to lockdown. Critics of our government pointed to this as "the right thing" to do. They have been far harsher there than here.. and yet... now locking down again as cases pass 25000 a day and rising!
Germany...cases rising exponentially again. Poland the same...highest number of cases since last year. The latter 2 being cited as mainly due to school kids spreading it among families and friends (#superspreaders).
Other central/eastern European countries are also seeing rises in cases.
Will we see the same as our kids return to school? Will our far better vaccination programme prevent this?
This thing isn't over till it's over!!!"
Kids will speed it and other restrictions will be delayed is this the right way to go I don't know but it is what it is.
The R number was dropping but has now flattened out if this gets back up to wards 1 should schools close again.
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"Italy were first country to lockdown. Critics of our government pointed to this as "the right thing" to do. They have been far harsher there than here.. and yet... now locking down again as cases pass 25000 a day and rising!
Germany...cases rising exponentially again. Poland the same...highest number of cases since last year. The latter 2 being cited as mainly due to school kids spreading it among families and friends (#superspreaders).
Other central/eastern European countries are also seeing rises in cases.
Will we see the same as our kids return to school? Will our far better vaccination programme prevent this?
This thing isn't over till it's over!!!"
We have another year at least to run in this. And international travel isn't helping anyone until the vaccine is in more countries. Even if we get our own house in order (and that's a big if) whilst we have so much international travel from countries with high infection rates we will be having problems.
As for the other countries let's hope they manage to control it quickly.
Last you make a very valid observation that whilst we complain, others are struggling also. |
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"Italy were first country to lockdown. Critics of our government pointed to this as "the right thing" to do. They have been far harsher there than here.. and yet... now locking down again as cases pass 25000 a day and rising!
Germany...cases rising exponentially again. Poland the same...highest number of cases since last year. The latter 2 being cited as mainly due to school kids spreading it among families and friends (#superspreaders).
Other central/eastern European countries are also seeing rises in cases.
Will we see the same as our kids return to school? Will our far better vaccination programme prevent this?
This thing isn't over till it's over!!!
Kids will speed it and other restrictions will be delayed is this the right way to go I don't know but it is what it is.
The R number was dropping but has now flattened out if this gets back up to wards 1 should schools close again.
"
1...schools have remained open throughout at 50 % capacity.
2. Schools have been opened to the remainder for less than a week.
3. Infections don't show up for more than a week in the numbers and a further 24 at lest hours to appear in the report.
4. Agree the reductions have slowed and in fact have been on the rise again for the last 2 days.
5. Look at the changes in behaviour over the last 3 weeks (since the plan was published) when we all decided that because kids were allowed back to school (the remaining 50% anyway) it was all over.
6) stay safe and follow the rules people... Its a long way from over. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
I think our vaccine rollout will help a lot as the more that get the jab the less likely they are to end up in hospital and overwhelming the hospitals is the main reason for the lockdowns. I dont think they should open up foreign travel until other countries bring their numbers of infected down.Stay home this year and help the UK economy we have some lovely places we just need a good hot summer. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Italy were first country to lockdown. Critics of our government pointed to this as "the right thing" to do. They have been far harsher there than here.. and yet... now locking down again as cases pass 25000 a day and rising!
Germany...cases rising exponentially again. Poland the same...highest number of cases since last year. The latter 2 being cited as mainly due to school kids spreading it among families and friends (#superspreaders).
Other central/eastern European countries are also seeing rises in cases.
Will we see the same as our kids return to school? Will our far better vaccination programme prevent this?
This thing isn't over till it's over!!!"
Harsh lockdowns, but swift unlocking is a bad combo... You limit the number of people who get the virus initially, but because these countries also tend to lift restrictions too quickly you have a lot of people with zero immunity suddenly exposed.
This combined with a poorly coordinated vax program has caused the third wave to be so bad in parts of Europe.
Its a worry for sure, but with luck the UK vax roll out will diminsh the impact of any resurgence here. |
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I think a year of this around the world has shown us there is no easy solution. From Tanzania who are refuting it, to Brazil and us in the UK who have at least initially managed it badly to nz and aus who seem to have zero covid through harsh controls and adherence, to India who somehow have cricket crowds of 50k going on... One size does not fit all but nothing changes the fact its a virus that does not travel on its own. |
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"Stay home this year and help the UK economy we have some lovely places we just need a good hot summer."
The problem the UK is, although it is beautiful, it is way too crowded. Too many people, not enough secluded campsites, too expensive, need to book early etc. We like to wander about in our motorhome, deciding on the day where to go next. This is very difficult in the UK in the school holidays. Too many UK campsites have facilities we don't need (electric, shower blocks, "entertainment" etc.) then charge some extortionate price per night to pay for the unnecessary items.
We usut use rally fields and certificated sites but even these are now getting full and expensive.
Europe is much nicer. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don’t think the virus will go away, I think it will mutate and there will be variations and we will just have to live with it. Masks might become normal."
I certainly think there will have to be a discussion about masks over the winter. Whether its compulsory or not I think we'll start to see more people wearing them. |
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Each country has handled it differently from others and at different stages - few have consistently done the same thing throughout.
Certainly the other countries in Europe are disadvantaged by slower vaccine rollou. The percentages of the populations done are still quite low. As they increase, they will gain resilience against it. It takes patience, which some people are reluctant to stay with restrictions for the long haul.
We're fortunate but are at the point equivalent to last September, when we needed to lockdown but didn't. It's not long until people can congregate at pubs, albeit outside - it's very soon, so we need to hope that it doesn't send numbers back up. |
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"Each country has handled it differently from others and at different stages - few have consistently done the same thing throughout.
Certainly the other countries in Europe are disadvantaged by slower vaccine rollou. The percentages of the populations done are still quite low. As they increase, they will gain resilience against it. It takes patience, which some people are reluctant to stay with restrictions for the long haul.
We're fortunate but are at the point equivalent to last September, when we needed to lockdown but didn't. It's not long until people can congregate at pubs, albeit outside - it's very soon, so we need to hope that it doesn't send numbers back up. "
I agree. I think we are on a road to doing what people want... Govt by twitter... Rather than what people need.
An Easter weekend of good weather, parties, raves, demonstrations, sports crowds is the last thing we need. I think we are over playing our hand at the moment. |
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By *tue555Man
over a year ago
Passed Beyond Reach |
Cases will rise significantly after we ease restrictions. Not the cases it is the hospital admissions and death rates which are the key markers. If they stay low because of the vaccine role out, people have had it. There will no reason to delay lifting restrictions. For most of the people left it will just hope be like a bad cold or little flu, there will be exceptions yes but that is the case with any virus. Argue on |
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The English variant is doing some serious damage. We let it spread too much and its shameful. At the same time we have wonderful scientists and the NHS. And other countries variants are around too. |
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The vaccine roll out in Europe has been an unmitigated disaster mainly down to the EU bureaucratic process, thankfully the UK has not had to follow or adhere to that process otherwise there would have been delay’s with the AE vaccine let alone getting any others.
Italy has had shops, restaurants, etc open and are now paying the price.
Whilst i do not think the UK is out of the mire yet (schools reopening is going to see a spike) the vaccine roll out and take up should hopefully see serious illness and hospitalisation greatly reduced.
The UK as well seems to like including Covid as the cause of death when it may be part of but not the sole reason.
i would bet that in some other countries they downplay the Covid part so as to not reflect badly on the Government handling. Deaths from Covid are probably much higher than a lot of these countries are declaring. |
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"Cases will rise significantly after we ease restrictions. Not the cases it is the hospital admissions and death rates which are the key markers. If they stay low because of the vaccine role out, people have had it. There will no reason to delay lifting restrictions. For most of the people left it will just hope be like a bad cold or little flu, there will be exceptions yes but that is the case with any virus. Argue on"
So if for 50% it's like a cold and for 40% it puts them in bed all be it at home and 10% need more intervention.
Do you still let the 50% with a cold go out and about as they could go to work etc. |
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"Cases will rise significantly after we ease restrictions. Not the cases it is the hospital admissions and death rates which are the key markers. If they stay low because of the vaccine role out, people have had it. There will no reason to delay lifting restrictions. For most of the people left it will just hope be like a bad cold or little flu, there will be exceptions yes but that is the case with any virus. Argue on
So if for 50% it's like a cold and for 40% it puts them in bed all be it at home and 10% need more intervention.
Do you still let the 50% with a cold go out and about as they could go to work etc."
Once the vaccine has been offered to all the adult population, yes.
We'll just have to live with the virus for a long time yet. Deaths may exceed a bad flu year every year for a while but that is the way it goes.
For those who refused the vaccine, natural selection will be the predominant factor. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The cases will go up due to testing in schools some may be correctly identified and other cases will be false positives regardless of symptoms there are going to be positive results weather real positives or not ALL these positive results 'cases' will be recorded to add to the data to scare the children and try and instill the fear into them which so many adults believe in? Whats going to be next forced vaccines on children or there not allowes to access education? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
For those who refused the vaccine, natural selection will be the predominant factor."
Or possibly the other way around as if this were an IQ test testing peoples ignorance? |
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"The cases will go up due to testing in schools some may be correctly identified and other cases will be false positives regardless of symptoms there are going to be positive results weather real positives or not ALL these positive results 'cases' will be recorded to add to the data to scare the children and try and instill the fear into them which so many adults believe in? Whats going to be next forced vaccines on children or there not allowes to access education?"
I do agree with your point about some children being scared. Some aren't and they understand that there are things they just need to do. But others are carrying a lot of fear around with them and that isn't good. Who knows the damage we will see in the future. |
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"Cases will rise significantly after we ease restrictions. Not the cases it is the hospital admissions and death rates which are the key markers. If they stay low because of the vaccine role out, people have had it. There will no reason to delay lifting restrictions. For most of the people left it will just hope be like a bad cold or little flu, there will be exceptions yes but that is the case with any virus. Argue on"
What about long covid consequences? I found out yesterday a friend of mine is suffering with long covid which has affected his memory and cognitive abilities. It can't be ignored until we know more about it. |
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"Cases will rise significantly after we ease restrictions. Not the cases it is the hospital admissions and death rates which are the key markers. If they stay low because of the vaccine role out, people have had it. There will no reason to delay lifting restrictions. For most of the people left it will just hope be like a bad cold or little flu, there will be exceptions yes but that is the case with any virus. Argue on
So if for 50% it's like a cold and for 40% it puts them in bed all be it at home and 10% need more intervention.
Do you still let the 50% with a cold go out and about as they could go to work etc.
Once the vaccine has been offered to all the adult population, yes.
We'll just have to live with the virus for a long time yet. Deaths may exceed a bad flu year every year for a while but that is the way it goes.
For those who refused the vaccine, natural selection will be the predominant factor."
And for those who can't have the vaccine.. Or who have had it and for whom it has not worked? |
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"And for those who can't have the vaccine.. Or who have had it and for whom it has not worked? "
It is unfortunate that there will be some people affected like that however we have got too used to being able to cure or prevent most disease. The consequences of not reopening are dire financially and also for those who are being left to die of non covid disease, for example cancer. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It doesnt seem to make sense but it seems the harsher the lockdown, the worse the country has suffered.
Maybe theres some way of transmission weve missed ?"
Been saying this since the beginning. Maybe herd immunity was the only option. Keeping a close eye on Sweden. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It doesnt seem to make sense but it seems the harsher the lockdown, the worse the country has suffered.
Maybe theres some way of transmission weve missed ?"
its possible some of this is cultural, less harsh lockdown required in countries where something doesn’t have to be enforced to be followed if its for the good of the community and people are happy to do it anyway |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And for those who can't have the vaccine.. Or who have had it and for whom it has not worked?
It is unfortunate that there will be some people affected like that however we have got too used to being able to cure or prevent most disease. The consequences of not reopening are dire financially and also for those who are being left to die of non covid disease, for example cancer."
it sounds harsh but they are correct - i imagine we will keep researching to try find an alternative that they could take successfully, but you cant keep the world closed for a small minority that should have some protection from the immunity of the herd anyway |
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"The cases will go up due to testing in schools some may be correctly identified and other cases will be false positives regardless of symptoms there are going to be positive results weather real positives or not ALL these positive results 'cases' will be recorded to add to the data to scare the children and try and instill the fear into them which so many adults believe in? Whats going to be next forced vaccines on children or there not allowes to access education?"
If they get a positive lft then they go for a pcr test to confirm the result. The test figures are based on pcr tests.
In still fear into children, if anything it gives them piece of mind twice a week that they are not carrying the virus and therefore not passing it on to others at home. The children I know are just getting on with it, as something they need to do to get back to school allowing interaction and a bit of normal life to begin again for them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It doesnt seem to make sense but it seems the harsher the lockdown, the worse the country has suffered.
Maybe theres some way of transmission weve missed ?
its possible some of this is cultural, less harsh lockdown required in countries where something doesn’t have to be enforced to be followed if its for the good of the community and people are happy to do it anyway "
I don't believe that's the case as culturally we changed our behaviour (and others did too) but now a lot of places are showing signs of major covid fatigue and people are going back to their normal habits. Infections haven't jumped that much to reflect this.
Like I say keeping a close eye on Sweden. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Italy were first country to lockdown. Critics of our government pointed to this as "the right thing" to do. They have been far harsher there than here.. and yet... now locking down again as cases pass 25000 a day and rising!
Germany...cases rising exponentially again. Poland the same...highest number of cases since last year. The latter 2 being cited as mainly due to school kids spreading it among families and friends (#superspreaders).
Other central/eastern European countries are also seeing rises in cases.
Will we see the same as our kids return to school? Will our far better vaccination programme prevent this?
This thing isn't over till it's over!!!
Kids will speed it and other restrictions will be delayed is this the right way to go I don't know but it is what it is.
The R number was dropping but has now flattened out if this gets back up to wards 1 should schools close again.
1...schools have remained open throughout at 50 % capacity.
2. Schools have been opened to the remainder for less than a week.
3. Infections don't show up for more than a week in the numbers and a further 24 at lest hours to appear in the report.
4. Agree the reductions have slowed and in fact have been on the rise again for the last 2 days.
5. Look at the changes in behaviour over the last 3 weeks (since the plan was published) when we all decided that because kids were allowed back to school (the remaining 50% anyway) it was all over.
6) stay safe and follow the rules people... Its a long way from over. "
 agree with this - schools are going to get the blame when its people behaviour changing as soon as they heard there was a plan thats to blame
govt says heres a spaced out controlled plan to get us to june 21 - the uk hears thats it covid is over |
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"It doesnt seem to make sense but it seems the harsher the lockdown, the worse the country has suffered.
Maybe theres some way of transmission weve missed ?
its possible some of this is cultural, less harsh lockdown required in countries where something doesn’t have to be enforced to be followed if its for the good of the community and people are happy to do it anyway "
But that still doeant add up. Italy and spain have had some of the harshest lockdowns in the world yet they still have terrible cases.
Yet there are countries like Japan where almost no one has died and they havent had any lockdowns.
There's something wrong with either our approach or some misunderstanding on how covid actually spreads. |
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By *amish SMan
over a year ago
Eastleigh |
More covid deaths than a bad flu year, problem with that is we have not had a bad flu year since 1967. Let's hope we don't see one too soon. A decent outbreak would make recent covid hospital admissions look like a training excercise. Neither are nice, but do not underestimate flu. |
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"More covid deaths than a bad flu year, problem with that is we have not had a bad flu year since 1967. Let's hope we don't see one too soon. A decent outbreak would make recent covid hospital admissions look like a training excercise. Neither are nice, but do not underestimate flu. "
Well they are expecting a bad flu season because people have been locked up for a year so had minimal exposure. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It doesnt seem to make sense but it seems the harsher the lockdown, the worse the country has suffered.
Maybe theres some way of transmission weve missed ?
its possible some of this is cultural, less harsh lockdown required in countries where something doesn’t have to be enforced to be followed if its for the good of the community and people are happy to do it anyway
But that still doeant add up. Italy and spain have had some of the harshest lockdowns in the world yet they still have terrible cases.
Yet there are countries like Japan where almost no one has died and they havent had any lockdowns.
There's something wrong with either our approach or some misunderstanding on how covid actually spreads. "
because of the hokey y way its been done - harsh lockdown then everyone race out then harsh lockdown then everyone race out, if people hadn’t taken the easing of lockdowns as an indicator to try get life immediately back to normal we wouldn’t have had the same problems
the countries where a lockdown wasn’t required the citizens knew what was needed to do and altered their behaviour without it bring legislated and continue to observe the altered behaviour so things are in a much steadier state |
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Think Israel are leaders at moment only 5000 deaths to date
Highly populated areas like UK and are leaders in vaccinations
And before anyone says there's only 10,000,000 people in Israel they should remember its 10 times smaller than UK so percentage of people to square metres of land is around the same as uk
Difference in there vaccines is they vaccinated the working people first less risk of spreading that way
|
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"More covid deaths than a bad flu year, problem with that is we have not had a bad flu year since 1967. Let's hope we don't see one too soon. A decent outbreak would make recent covid hospital admissions look like a training excercise. Neither are nice, but do not underestimate flu. "
The info we have seen says "more than 30,000" UK deaths for that flu episode. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"More covid deaths than a bad flu year, problem with that is we have not had a bad flu year since 1967. Let's hope we don't see one too soon. A decent outbreak would make recent covid hospital admissions look like a training excercise. Neither are nice, but do not underestimate flu.
The info we have seen says "more than 30,000" UK deaths for that flu episode."
If flu does come back this year I expect a higher number. This is due to lowering immune systems with over sanitising. |
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"More covid deaths than a bad flu year, problem with that is we have not had a bad flu year since 1967. Let's hope we don't see one too soon. A decent outbreak would make recent covid hospital admissions look like a training excercise. Neither are nice, but do not underestimate flu.
The info we have seen says "more than 30,000" UK deaths for that flu episode.
If flu does come back this year I expect a higher number. This is due to lowering immune systems with over sanitising. "
ive posted this before somewhere... but the real figures wont be clear for several years, because the year before covid not many were killed by flu meaning easy pickings for any virus that came along, covid or other wise...over the longer period the death rate will show a truer picture.  |
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"It doesnt seem to make sense but it seems the harsher the lockdown, the worse the country has suffered.
Maybe theres some way of transmission weve missed ?
its possible some of this is cultural, less harsh lockdown required in countries where something doesn’t have to be enforced to be followed if its for the good of the community and people are happy to do it anyway
But that still doeant add up. Italy and spain have had some of the harshest lockdowns in the world yet they still have terrible cases.
Yet there are countries like Japan where almost no one has died and they havent had any lockdowns.
There's something wrong with either our approach or some misunderstanding on how covid actually spreads. "
Or some cultures behave differently.? Some are not the fat boys of the world? Some have different genetics?
Some culturally observe social distancing and extremes of hygiene by their nature (Japan for example).
One size doesn't fit all. It could be that we (and 180 other nations) have missed something about how it is transmitted.... But what we do know is it is transmitted by people and by their aerosols. So if there's a reason look at the families who go shopping at tescoes (other supermarkets are available) as opposed to just one of them shopping, as just one example. |
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"It doesnt seem to make sense but it seems the harsher the lockdown, the worse the country has suffered.
Maybe theres some way of transmission weve missed ?
its possible some of this is cultural, less harsh lockdown required in countries where something doesn’t have to be enforced to be followed if its for the good of the community and people are happy to do it anyway
But that still doeant add up. Italy and spain have had some of the harshest lockdowns in the world yet they still have terrible cases.
Yet there are countries like Japan where almost no one has died and they havent had any lockdowns.
There's something wrong with either our approach or some misunderstanding on how covid actually spreads.
because of the hokey y way its been done - harsh lockdown then everyone race out then harsh lockdown then everyone race out, if people hadn’t taken the easing of lockdowns as an indicator to try get life immediately back to normal we wouldn’t have had the same problems
the countries where a lockdown wasn’t required the citizens knew what was needed to do and altered their behaviour without it bring legislated and continue to observe the altered behaviour so things are in a much steadier state "
Do you think that's because they are more knowledgeable? That a disease spread by touch and aerosols and requires distance and cleanliness would willingly change behaviours to not spread it further.? Its what our grandparents would have done... When they had a cough... The one thing they didn't do was go and spread it to others. They washed their hands. Basics we have seemingly forgotten. |
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"Think Israel are leaders at moment only 5000 deaths to date
Highly populated areas like UK and are leaders in vaccinations
And before anyone says there's only 10,000,000 people in Israel they should remember its 10 times smaller than UK so percentage of people to square metres of land is around the same as uk
Difference in there vaccines is they vaccinated the working people first less risk of spreading that way
"
Rather than the immobile elderly and those already shielding or not as mobile... Hmmm who'd have thought of that?
Having said that if we had have started at the other end I imagine the uptake would have been pretty tiny. I'd be interested in seeing the uptake in each grouping. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It doesnt seem to make sense but it seems the harsher the lockdown, the worse the country has suffered.
Maybe theres some way of transmission weve missed ?
its possible some of this is cultural, less harsh lockdown required in countries where something doesn’t have to be enforced to be followed if its for the good of the community and people are happy to do it anyway
But that still doeant add up. Italy and spain have had some of the harshest lockdowns in the world yet they still have terrible cases.
Yet there are countries like Japan where almost no one has died and they havent had any lockdowns.
There's something wrong with either our approach or some misunderstanding on how covid actually spreads.
because of the hokey y way its been done - harsh lockdown then everyone race out then harsh lockdown then everyone race out, if people hadn’t taken the easing of lockdowns as an indicator to try get life immediately back to normal we wouldn’t have had the same problems
the countries where a lockdown wasn’t required the citizens knew what was needed to do and altered their behaviour without it bring legislated and continue to observe the altered behaviour so things are in a much steadier state
Do you think that's because they are more knowledgeable? That a disease spread by touch and aerosols and requires distance and cleanliness would willingly change behaviours to not spread it further.? Its what our grandparents would have done... When they had a cough... The one thing they didn't do was go and spread it to others. They washed their hands. Basics we have seemingly forgotten. "
i dont think they are more knowledgeable - i think we all have that knowledge but i do think they are more amenable to changing their behaviours for the benefit of others and like you say some places like japan it wasn’t even much change as they already live life more conscious of these things
also take your point about being the fat boy of europe - i think we sometimes overlook factors that existed here that meant even if we ticked every box right when covid arrived we could still potentially have had worse results than others just due to our starting point |
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By *lansmanMan
over a year ago
Sheffield |
"It doesnt seem to make sense but it seems the harsher the lockdown, the worse the country has suffered.
Maybe theres some way of transmission weve missed ?
its possible some of this is cultural, less harsh lockdown required in countries where something doesn’t have to be enforced to be followed if its for the good of the community and people are happy to do it anyway
But that still doeant add up. Italy and spain have had some of the harshest lockdowns in the world yet they still have terrible cases.
Yet there are countries like Japan where almost no one has died and they havent had any lockdowns.
There's something wrong with either our approach or some misunderstanding on how covid actually spreads.
Or some cultures behave differently.? Some are not the fat boys of the world? Some have different genetics?
Some culturally observe social distancing and extremes of hygiene by their nature (Japan for example).
One size doesn't fit all. It could be that we (and 180 other nations) have missed something about how it is transmitted.... But what we do know is it is transmitted by people and by their aerosols. So if there's a reason look at the families who go shopping at tescoes (other supermarkets are available) as opposed to just one of them shopping, as just one example. "
All this is so true. Plus i think there is a great deal of luck too when a pandemic starts. People movements vary around the world which affects rates.
Also ,look a how Germany had relatively low cases last year yet are seeing a much higher cases now. What's changed in Germany? |
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"Cases will rise significantly after we ease restrictions. Not the cases it is the hospital admissions and death rates which are the key markers. If they stay low because of the vaccine role out, people have had it. There will no reason to delay lifting restrictions. For most of the people left it will just hope be like a bad cold or little flu, there will be exceptions yes but that is the case with any virus. Argue on
So if for 50% it's like a cold and for 40% it puts them in bed all be it at home and 10% need more intervention.
Do you still let the 50% with a cold go out and about as they could go to work etc.
Once the vaccine has been offered to all the adult population, yes.
We'll just have to live with the virus for a long time yet. Deaths may exceed a bad flu year every year for a while but that is the way it goes.
For those who refused the vaccine, natural selection will be the predominant factor."
I agree with natural selection.
Hopefully the figures for all that die after they have had the jab, will not be included on the covid deaths, but sadly I think they will be.
If they are kept seperate, we will get a clear picture of how effective the jab is.
However, Geert Vanden Bossche is worried that those who have had the jab could be carriers for a stronger strain. If so we might need a passport for those who have not had the jab to be able to gain access to supermarkets etc., and exclude those who have. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think the main driving force behind Europe's infection surges is the fact they are so behind on vaccinations. They've faffed about talking about its reliability, what age group should get which vaccine, failed dismally in pre stock ordering, played legal games with its procurement. All this has come home to roost now, instead of a good baseline of most vunerable vaccinated and easing hospital pressures, they are desperately playing catch up. |
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"It doesnt seem to make sense but it seems the harsher the lockdown, the worse the country has suffered.
Maybe theres some way of transmission weve missed ?
Been saying this since the beginning. Maybe herd immunity was the only option. Keeping a close eye on Sweden. "
Sweden is not doing very well at all  |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Italy were first country to lockdown. Critics of our government pointed to this as "the right thing" to do. They have been far harsher there than here.. and yet... now locking down again as cases pass 25000 a day and rising!
Germany...cases rising exponentially again. Poland the same...highest number of cases since last year. The latter 2 being cited as mainly due to school kids spreading it among families and friends (#superspreaders).
Other central/eastern European countries are also seeing rises in cases.
Will we see the same as our kids return to school? Will our far better vaccination programme prevent this?
This thing isn't over till it's over!!!"
Very true |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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We will all my certainly seeing increasing infections as schools go back and things start to open up.
People getting Covid isn't necessarily an issue but getting serious sick and needing hospital treatment is.
We are way ahead in vacation Program than these countries. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Why have’nt vaccines for other conditions caused the same problem of innate escape - agree they will increase pressure on variants but innate escape - this is unlikely to happen."
I really wouldn't know, to be honest. It was something I came across and have been thinking about. Maybe it has to do with the different technology used in this particular vaccine? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Cases will rise significantly after we ease restrictions. Not the cases it is the hospital admissions and death rates which are the key markers. If they stay low because of the vaccine role out, people have had it. There will no reason to delay lifting restrictions. For most of the people left it will just hope be like a bad cold or little flu, there will be exceptions yes but that is the case with any virus. Argue on
So if for 50% it's like a cold and for 40% it puts them in bed all be it at home and 10% need more intervention.
Do you still let the 50% with a cold go out and about as they could go to work etc.
Once the vaccine has been offered to all the adult population, yes.
We'll just have to live with the virus for a long time yet. Deaths may exceed a bad flu year every year for a while but that is the way it goes.
For those who refused the vaccine, natural selection will be the predominant factor.
I agree with natural selection.
Hopefully the figures for all that die after they have had the jab, will not be included on the covid deaths, but sadly I think they will be.
If they are kept seperate, we will get a clear picture of how effective the jab is.
However, Geert Vanden Bossche is worried that those who have had the jab could be carriers for a stronger strain. If so we might need a passport for those who have not had the jab to be able to gain access to supermarkets etc., and exclude those who have."
The figures for deaths after the jab will be hushed up.
Interesting idea there about a non corona vax passport for supermarkets access. |
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Cases will rise significantly after we ease restrictions. Not the cases it is the hospital admissions and death rates which are the key markers. If they stay low because of the vaccine role out, people have had it. There will no reason to delay lifting restrictions. For most of the people left it will just hope be like a bad cold or little flu, there will be exceptions yes but that is the case with any virus. Argue on
So if for 50% it's like a cold and for 40% it puts them in bed all be it at home and 10% need more intervention.
Do you still let the 50% with a cold go out and about as they could go to work etc.
Once the vaccine has been offered to all the adult population, yes.
We'll just have to live with the virus for a long time yet. Deaths may exceed a bad flu year every year for a while but that is the way it goes.
For those who refused the vaccine, natural selection will be the predominant factor.
I agree with natural selection.
Hopefully the figures for all that die after they have had the jab, will not be included on the covid deaths, but sadly I think they will be.
If they are kept seperate, we will get a clear picture of how effective the jab is.
However, Geert Vanden Bossche is worried that those who have had the jab could be carriers for a stronger strain. If so we might need a passport for those who have not had the jab to be able to gain access to supermarkets etc., and exclude those who have.
The figures for deaths after the jab will be hushed up.
Interesting idea there about a non corona vax passport for supermarkets access."
Why would they just deaths up ? Given that the first few million vaccinations were given to the highest age groups who were already not the strongest health wise there would be deaths after vaccination.
Just because you get vaccinated dos not mean your not going to die it just gives you a better chance of survival.
|
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"Cases will rise significantly after we ease restrictions. Not the cases it is the hospital admissions and death rates which are the key markers. If they stay low because of the vaccine role out, people have had it. There will no reason to delay lifting restrictions. For most of the people left it will just hope be like a bad cold or little flu, there will be exceptions yes but that is the case with any virus. Argue on
So if for 50% it's like a cold and for 40% it puts them in bed all be it at home and 10% need more intervention.
Do you still let the 50% with a cold go out and about as they could go to work etc.
Once the vaccine has been offered to all the adult population, yes.
We'll just have to live with the virus for a long time yet. Deaths may exceed a bad flu year every year for a while but that is the way it goes.
For those who refused the vaccine, natural selection will be the predominant factor.
I agree with natural selection.
Hopefully the figures for all that die after they have had the jab, will not be included on the covid deaths, but sadly I think they will be.
If they are kept seperate, we will get a clear picture of how effective the jab is.
However, Geert Vanden Bossche is worried that those who have had the jab could be carriers for a stronger strain. If so we might need a passport for those who have not had the jab to be able to gain access to supermarkets etc., and exclude those who have.
The figures for deaths after the jab will be hushed up.
Interesting idea there about a non corona vax passport for supermarkets access.
Why would they just deaths up ? Given that the first few million vaccinations were given to the highest age groups who were already not the strongest health wise there would be deaths after vaccination.
Just because you get vaccinated dos not mean your not going to die it just gives you a better chance of survival.
"
That and when they do die... Hopefully it will not be a horrible torturous covid death and something less painful and fearful for them.
It would be interesting to know how many of the top group... Who were the oldest and by definition already the closest to death... How many are still around in 12 months... I'm not suggesting they should have been left to their own devices by the way... My mum had a terrible death and I would not wish that on anybody else. So if a vaccine / jab can help that, then it's a good thing. |
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
"
It would be interesting to know how many of the top group... Who were the oldest and by definition already the closest to death... How many are still around in 12 months... I'm not suggesting they should have been left to their own devices by the way... My mum had a terrible death and I would not wish that on anybody else. So if a vaccine / jab can help that, then it's a good thing. "
Exactly this
My dad passed in august and went peacefully  sleeping and not gasping for his last breath and because he was not COVID + had had my bro to hold his hand and he with him
I would not wish the kind of end he may have had if we had not manage to keep him safe.
My point is that he would have gone no matter what even if he had been vaccinated but if he had they would have added him to the number who had died after having a vaccine.
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"We will all my certainly seeing increasing infections as schools go back and things start to open up.
People getting Covid isn't necessarily an issue but getting serious sick and needing hospital treatment is.
We are way ahead in vacation Program than these countries. "
|
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"We will all my certainly seeing increasing infections as schools go back and things start to open up.
People getting Covid isn't necessarily an issue but getting serious sick and needing hospital treatment is.
We are way ahead in vacation Program than these countries. "
|
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By *usie pTV/TS
over a year ago
taunton |
The only half a chance to improve the situation and lessen the deadly effect of this virus at the moment is for everyone to be vaccinated any twats out there that won't have it should be thoroughly ashamed of them selves for being so selfish. |
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
"The only half a chance to improve the situation and lessen the deadly effect of this virus at the moment is for everyone to be vaccinated any twats out there that won't have it should be thoroughly ashamed of them selves for being so selfish."
I like to think of it as a thinning of the gene pool |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Government ministers are making noises that European holidays might not happen until August, also even if you've had both jabs,two weeks isolation on returning home. |
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By *ittleMissCaliWoman
over a year ago
trouble most likely, or creating it :) |
"Government ministers are making noises that European holidays might not happen until August, also even if you've had both jabs,two weeks isolation on returning home."
I cant afford it with the current need for testing 3 times anyway. Adds £300 per person currently x
And I didn't expect them to allow it till September anyway |
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"
For those who refused the vaccine, natural selection will be the predominant factor.
An interesting percentage of those who don't want the jab and those who can't have it due to health issues I think could be relatively comparable .
Or possibly the other way around as if this were an IQ test testing peoples ignorance?"
|
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By *reyyaMan
over a year ago
North Yorkshire |
"Italy were first country to lockdown. Critics of our government pointed to this as "the right thing" to do. They have been far harsher there than here.. and yet... now locking down again as cases pass 25000 a day and rising!
Germany...cases rising exponentially again. Poland the same...highest number of cases since last year. The latter 2 being cited as mainly due to school kids spreading it among families and friends (#superspreaders).
Other central/eastern European countries are also seeing rises in cases.
Will we see the same as our kids return to school? Will our far better vaccination programme prevent this?
This thing isn't over till it's over!!!"
So what if what you say is true. Does not effect us. We are not going there. They are not coming here. In any case 99 percent of us are unaffected. We will all be vaccinated. Safe as houses. Our children do not contract the disease. Europe tried to stuff us over Brexit. They are currently charging ridiculous amounts at customs. Bollocks to them. We have enough to worry about with the bully boy brutal Met police as witnessed on YouTube last Saturday night. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
Our children may not get ill....also true throughout EU and presumably elsewhere.
What they DO is spread it back to communities.
Simple comparison of infection graphs to dates of schools opening/closing shows it plain and simple. |
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"Our children may not get ill....also true throughout EU and presumably elsewhere.
What they DO is spread it back to communities.
Simple comparison of infection graphs to dates of schools opening/closing shows it plain and simple."
So how do you explain schools being open at 50% all the way through and infections dropping for the last 2 months |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Our children may not get ill....also true throughout EU and presumably elsewhere.
What they DO is spread it back to communities.
Simple comparison of infection graphs to dates of schools opening/closing shows it plain and simple.
So how do you explain schools being open at 50% all the way through and infections dropping for the last 2 months "
were they not open for childcare for key worker kids , so their parents would likely be at just as much risk of transmission in the community and/or potentially had the vaccine |
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Spoke to someone in Brazil yesterday, it's really bad and they have a curfew of 6pm! 