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"Dayly total of Deaths today from or with the Corona virus. Is it right we allow this?" Definitely not right we allow it. I think we should social distance, wash our hands properly, wear masks and get vaccinated. If only it was possible to do that..... Winston | |||
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"Dayly total of Deaths today from or with the Corona virus. Is it right we allow this? Definitely not right we allow it. I think we should social distance, wash our hands properly, wear masks and get vaccinated. If only it was possible to do that..... Winston" Yeah let's hide away, shield for years, destroy your natural immune system and suffer like mad if ever you get a cold. | |||
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"Dayly total of Deaths today from or with the Corona virus. Is it right we allow this? Definitely not right we allow it. I think we should social distance, wash our hands properly, wear masks and get vaccinated. If only it was possible to do that..... Winston Yeah let's hide away, shield for years, destroy your natural immune system and suffer like mad if ever you get a cold. " Going out anywhere you wish, wearing a mask in crowded places is not "hiding away". Vaccines do not "destroy your natural immune system", they stimulate them. If you get a cold, you get a cold just as you always have. | |||
"Dayly total of Deaths today from or with the Corona virus. Is it right we allow this?" Like all things we eventually normalise this sort of thing as long as it does not effect us directly. It would not require much to make a meaningful reduction in this figure, but our government wants to claim victory, in part to distract from other political problems. Somewhat ironically the desire to open up the economy is, in the short-term at least, not quite having the desired effect because so many people are off ill. | |||
"Dayly total of Deaths today from or with the Corona virus. Is it right we allow this? Like all things we eventually normalise this sort of thing as long as it does not effect us directly. It would not require much to make a meaningful reduction in this figure, but our government wants to claim victory, in part to distract from other political problems. Somewhat ironically the desire to open up the economy is, in the short-term at least, not quite having the desired effect because so many people are off ill." What would make a meaningful reduction in this figure? | |||
"Dayly total of Deaths today from or with the Corona virus. Is it right we allow this?" How many from and how many with? | |||
" Vaccines do not "destroy your natural immune system", they stimulate them. If you get a cold, you get a cold just as you always have." I don't think the poster was referring to vaccines. Rather the idea that isolating from all infections weakens the immune system. | |||
"Dayly total of Deaths today from or with the Corona virus. Is it right we allow this? Definitely not right we allow it. I think we should social distance, wash our hands properly, wear masks and get vaccinated. If only it was possible to do that..... Winston Yeah let's hide away, shield for years, destroy your natural immune system and suffer like mad if ever you get a cold. " If ever a reply misinterpreted a comment so badly, this would be it. I did not mention anything your reply suggests. Winston | |||
"So your happy with 300+dying a day?" Did the 317 die of covid 19 or did the 317 die after testing positive for covid 19 in the previous 28 days? | |||
"Dayly total of Deaths today from or with the Corona virus. Is it right we allow this? Definitely not right we allow it. I think we should social distance, wash our hands properly, wear masks and get vaccinated. If only it was possible to do that..... Winston Yeah let's hide away, shield for years, destroy your natural immune system and suffer like mad if ever you get a cold. Going out anywhere you wish, wearing a mask in crowded places is not "hiding away". Vaccines do not "destroy your natural immune system", they stimulate them. If you get a cold, you get a cold just as you always have." Perhaps you misunderstand the irony but actually the lack of social mixing does destroy your immune system. You made the quantum leap that I said the vaccine does that. This is half the problem. If you're going to reply to a remark, at least understand what your actually replying to and not what you're assuming If you look at the recently released 'new' symptoms, lots are similar to a cold and people now run scared of a cold | |||
"Dayly total of Deaths today from or with the Corona virus. Is it right we allow this? Definitely not right we allow it. I think we should social distance, wash our hands properly, wear masks and get vaccinated. If only it was possible to do that..... Winston Yeah let's hide away, shield for years, destroy your natural immune system and suffer like mad if ever you get a cold. If ever a reply misinterpreted a comment so badly, this would be it. I did not mention anything your reply suggests. Winston" True but your initial response was somewhat sarcastic | |||
"Dayly total of Deaths today from or with the Corona virus. Is it right we allow this? Definitely not right we allow it. I think we should social distance, wash our hands properly, wear masks and get vaccinated. If only it was possible to do that..... Winston Yeah let's hide away, shield for years, destroy your natural immune system and suffer like mad if ever you get a cold. Going out anywhere you wish, wearing a mask in crowded places is not "hiding away". Vaccines do not "destroy your natural immune system", they stimulate them. If you get a cold, you get a cold just as you always have. Perhaps you misunderstand the irony but actually the lack of social mixing does destroy your immune system. You made the quantum leap that I said the vaccine does that. This is half the problem. If you're going to reply to a remark, at least understand what your actually replying to and not what you're assuming If you look at the recently released 'new' symptoms, lots are similar to a cold and people now run scared of a cold " "If you're going to reply to a remark, at least understand what your actually replying to and not what you're assuming" Said without a trace of irony. 
Winston | |||
"It's a horrible feeling to see so many deaths. If it was a terrorist attack that killed 300+ It would be up roar. " What are you proposing and doing about it yourself? | |||
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"Dayly total of Deaths today from or with the Corona virus. Is it right we allow this?" nope.. I've spent the last 4 days in Italy and while life is going on..the contrast between how they are dealing with covid and us has been so obvious. Mask wearing is strictly adhered too... covid passes used for practically everything... ie trains, planes, eating on restaurants. However once you get used to having the pass ready it was no big deal. Only had one place that asked me to show Id that matched my pass. Seen everyone but very small children wearing fp2 masks and the guard removed someone from a Train for refusing. | |||
"Before Covid, how many people died each day in UK ?" Yes, many, whilst it is not good, everything seems to be covid doesnt it. | |||
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"Dayly total of Deaths today from or with the Corona virus. Is it right we allow this? Definitely not right we allow it. I think we should social distance, wash our hands properly, wear masks and get vaccinated. If only it was possible to do that..... Winston Yeah let's hide away, shield for years, destroy your natural immune system and suffer like mad if ever you get a cold. Going out anywhere you wish, wearing a mask in crowded places is not "hiding away". Vaccines do not "destroy your natural immune system", they stimulate them. If you get a cold, you get a cold just as you always have. Perhaps you misunderstand the irony but actually the lack of social mixing does destroy your immune system. You made the quantum leap that I said the vaccine does that. This is half the problem. If you're going to reply to a remark, at least understand what your actually replying to and not what you're assuming If you look at the recently released 'new' symptoms, lots are similar to a cold and people now run scared of a cold "If you're going to reply to a remark, at least understand what your actually replying to and not what you're assuming" Said without a trace of irony.
Winston"Most unusual though | |||
"So your happy with 300+dying a day? Did the 317 die of covid 19 or did the 317 die after testing positive for covid 19 in the previous 28 days? " I think your question lacks sufficient nuance. What matters is establishing whether Covid aggravated or accelerated a pre-existing condition that might otherwise not caused the person to die so soon or possibly at all! | |||
"So your happy with 300+dying a day? Did the 317 die of covid 19 or did the 317 die after testing positive for covid 19 in the previous 28 days? I think your question lacks sufficient nuance. What matters is establishing whether Covid aggravated or accelerated a pre-existing condition that might otherwise not caused the person to die so soon or possibly at all! " Extremely well said | |||
"The daily deaths figures have always been troublesome. While rightly it’s concerning to hear of what seems like so many, the measurement is very specific - people who died within 28 days of a laboratory-confirmed positive test. As many people who fit that category had other factors which contributed to their sad passing (age, comorbidities, environmental factors) its hard to understand the impact of Covid specifically. For context, there are 25000-30000 deaths from flu and pneumonia in an average year. Many of those involve people who are also in high-risk groups for Covid. Flu deaths decreased in 2020 in part because the social distancing and lockdowns helped stop flu spreading, but also because - sad to say - many of the people who would have died in the flu season had suffered from Covid and died. Lockdowns and distancing could only ever have been a short-term remedy. A fire-break which enabled governments and pharmaceutical companies to develop a longer-term response. Now we're in a position where we need to assess and manage the risks ourselves - like we do for flu and myriad other illnesses. " Humans have atrocious levels of expertise in risk assessment. We're still in the pandemic and it's reasonable to have active state management and mitigation of risks, as we do for many other health and wellbeing issues. Giving up and offloading the problem onto the public, is an abrogation of responsibility. Hospital admissions are still very high, which continues to cause problems for our health service, which has a severe backlog crisis. | |||
"So your happy with 300+dying a day? Did the 317 die of covid 19 or did the 317 die after testing positive for covid 19 in the previous 28 days? I think your question lacks sufficient nuance. What matters is establishing whether Covid aggravated or accelerated a pre-existing condition that might otherwise not caused the person to die so soon or possibly at all! " I can understand the covid fatigue, and the numbers are stupidly high again, and as the op said, if we had a terror attack killing over 300 every day for 6 months there would be outrage with the lack of response. But there's no appetite to do much about it. I'm very surprised we haven't had another round of boosters, unless they are timing the booster run for next autumn to try and get us through the winter. I suppose we've all got a few months before next autumn to lose a bit of weight and get a bit fitter / healthier so our risk profile is improved. | |||
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"So your happy with 300+dying a day? Did the 317 die of covid 19 or did the 317 die after testing positive for covid 19 in the previous 28 days? I think your question lacks sufficient nuance. What matters is establishing whether Covid aggravated or accelerated a pre-existing condition that might otherwise not caused the person to die so soon or possibly at all! I can understand the covid fatigue, and the numbers are stupidly high again, and as the op said, if we had a terror attack killing over 300 every day for 6 months there would be outrage with the lack of response. But there's no appetite to do much about it. I'm very surprised we haven't had another round of boosters, unless they are timing the booster run for next autumn to try and get us through the winter. I suppose we've all got a few months before next autumn to lose a bit of weight and get a bit fitter / healthier so our risk profile is improved. " I just avoid people unless wearing an FFP3 and crack on at this stage. If other people want to take risks with themselves and each other, not my circus. If the government want to oversee this shit show, at least it's not my health on the line. | |||
"So your happy with 300+dying a day? Did the 317 die of covid 19 or did the 317 die after testing positive for covid 19 in the previous 28 days? I think your question lacks sufficient nuance. What matters is establishing whether Covid aggravated or accelerated a pre-existing condition that might otherwise not caused the person to die so soon or possibly at all! I can understand the covid fatigue, and the numbers are stupidly high again, and as the op said, if we had a terror attack killing over 300 every day for 6 months there would be outrage with the lack of response. But there's no appetite to do much about it. I'm very surprised we haven't had another round of boosters, unless they are timing the booster run for next autumn to try and get us through the winter. I suppose we've all got a few months before next autumn to lose a bit of weight and get a bit fitter / healthier so our risk profile is improved. I just avoid people unless wearing an FFP3 and crack on at this stage. If other people want to take risks with themselves and each other, not my circus. If the government want to oversee this shit show, at least it's not my health on the line." So were the people wearing the appropriate masks on your recent meet? | |||
"So your happy with 300+dying a day? Did the 317 die of covid 19 or did the 317 die after testing positive for covid 19 in the previous 28 days? I think your question lacks sufficient nuance. What matters is establishing whether Covid aggravated or accelerated a pre-existing condition that might otherwise not caused the person to die so soon or possibly at all! I can understand the covid fatigue, and the numbers are stupidly high again, and as the op said, if we had a terror attack killing over 300 every day for 6 months there would be outrage with the lack of response. But there's no appetite to do much about it. I'm very surprised we haven't had another round of boosters, unless they are timing the booster run for next autumn to try and get us through the winter. I suppose we've all got a few months before next autumn to lose a bit of weight and get a bit fitter / healthier so our risk profile is improved. I just avoid people unless wearing an FFP3 and crack on at this stage. If other people want to take risks with themselves and each other, not my circus. If the government want to oversee this shit show, at least it's not my health on the line. So were the people wearing the appropriate masks on your recent meet? " Yes. Social meet. Masks on. I do hope this helps  | |||
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"Dayly total of Deaths today from or with the Corona virus. Is it right we allow this?" Considering an FOI to the ONS a few months ago stated that in England and Wales that there had been just over 17k in 2 years with JUST COVID on the death certificate says it all really. The world was told the sky would fall in on itself with COVID 2 years ago alas it has not. Turn the news off and enjoy your life before we ultimately all die one day. Also, whilst the mainstream media has you looking at covid deaths. They’re keeping pretty quiet about the 55k pages of the 329k documents Pfizer have to release every 30 days now showing these jabs aren’t just as useful as a chocolate fire guard, but you were probably better off injecting domestos | |||
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"Dayly total of Deaths today from or with the Corona virus. Is it right we allow this? nope.. I've spent the last 4 days in Italy and while life is going on..the contrast between how they are dealing with covid and us has been so obvious. Mask wearing is strictly adhered too... covid passes used for practically everything... ie trains, planes, eating on restaurants. However once you get used to having the pass ready it was no big deal. Only had one place that asked me to show Id that matched my pass. Seen everyone but very small children wearing fp2 masks and the guard removed someone from a Train for refusing. " And yet Italy has figures not massively different than ours for daily deaths! … and not sure if their measure includes those ‘within 28 days’. | |||
Your never going to stomp out things that will kill you it’s just a fact of life  | |||
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"Are we allowing this ? Or is it just happening ? You been to ask how many others die of other things daily (we all got to go sometime)
Your never going to stomp out things that will kill you it’s just a fact of life "It’s generally accepted that in a civilised society, when there is an issue causing people to die prematurely we take available measures to prevent it, rather than just shrug our shoulders and give up. Unfortunately our incompetent government has taken the ‘shrug shoulders and give up’ approach, as it does on nearly every issue requiring competent government. | |||
"Dayly total of Deaths today from or with the Corona virus. Is it right we allow this?" Almost the same as the total daily rate for alcohol and smoking related deaths. Just saying. | |||
"So your happy with 300+dying a day?" Sadly.. some people are. Headlong into a lockdown if not careful. So much for Freedom Day, maybe if ID10T had not have trusted the common sense of his population and kept the basics, we would not be walking into this mess. No LFTs unless you pay, I've never known so people with it, collateral damage is those that won't survive, especially as it now seems to be on a carousel of endless re-infections. It never ends.. | |||
"Dayly total of Deaths today from or with the Corona virus. Is it right we allow this? Considering an FOI to the ONS a few months ago stated that in England and Wales that there had been just over 17k in 2 years with JUST COVID on the death certificate says it all really. " The question asked was how many people had died of Covid without any other conditions. It was 17000. The people who had other conditions may have lived happily for years if they had not caught covid. I saw something once that said 2977 people died in the 9/11 attacks. 94% of them had health conditions. If we applied the same logic to what you are saying...that would mean only 178 people died of a terrorist attack on the Twin towers. | |||
"Dayly total of Deaths today from or with the Corona virus. Is it right we allow this? Considering an FOI to the ONS a few months ago stated that in England and Wales that there had been just over 17k in 2 years with JUST COVID on the death certificate says it all really. The question asked was how many people had died of Covid without any other conditions. It was 17000. The people who had other conditions may have lived happily for years if they had not caught covid. I saw something once that said 2977 people died in the 9/11 attacks. 94% of them had health conditions. If we applied the same logic to what you are saying...that would mean only 178 people died of a terrorist attack on the Twin towers." Ooh I like that logic... We could apply it to the 1000s being killed by Russians right now and if we take out those that are young, old, or have a disease... Well they've probably not killed many at all. | |||
"Are we allowing this ? Or is it just happening ? You been to ask how many others die of other things daily (we all got to go sometime)
Your never going to stomp out things that will kill you it’s just a fact of life
It’s generally accepted that in a civilised society, when there is an issue causing people to die prematurely we take available measures to prevent it, rather than just shrug our shoulders and give up."Unless it brings in massive amounts of tax income of course  | |||
"Dayly total of Deaths today from or with the Corona virus. Is it right we allow this? Like all things we eventually normalise this sort of thing as long as it does not effect us directly. It would not require much to make a meaningful reduction in this figure, but our government wants to claim victory, in part to distract from other political problems. Somewhat ironically the desire to open up the economy is, in the short-term at least, not quite having the desired effect because so many people are off ill. What would make a meaningful reduction in this figure? " One reduction is meaningful to the person who survives and their friends and family. At a population level 5% would be 15 people per day, 450 per month. Is that worth doing for some mildly inconvenient actions? | |||
" Vaccines do not "destroy your natural immune system", they stimulate them. If you get a cold, you get a cold just as you always have. I don't think the poster was referring to vaccines. Rather the idea that isolating from all infections weakens the immune system. " Nobody has to isolate anymore. They haven't for several months. That's what the vaccines are for. There is no evidence of "weakened immune systems". | |||
"Dayly total of Deaths today from or with the Corona virus. Is it right we allow this? nope.. I've spent the last 4 days in Italy and while life is going on..the contrast between how they are dealing with covid and us has been so obvious. Mask wearing is strictly adhered too... covid passes used for practically everything... ie trains, planes, eating on restaurants. However once you get used to having the pass ready it was no big deal. Only had one place that asked me to show Id that matched my pass. Seen everyone but very small children wearing fp2 masks and the guard removed someone from a Train for refusing. And yet Italy has figures not massively different than ours for daily deaths! … and not sure if their measure includes those ‘within 28 days’. " No, Italy does not have similar daily death rates. From Statistia, deaths on the last 7 days: UK 3711 Italy 870 | |||
"Are we allowing this ? Or is it just happening ? You been to ask how many others die of other things daily (we all got to go sometime)
Your never going to stomp out things that will kill you it’s just a fact of life "The change in behaviour encouraged by the government together with those refusing to vaccinate are driving the higher rates. Living with Covid could have retained some minor precautions. Although not guaranteed, over time the lethality is likely to reduce and allow further loosening of restrictions. | |||
"Dayly total of Deaths today from or with the Corona virus. Is it right we allow this? Considering an FOI to the ONS a few months ago stated that in England and Wales that there had been just over 17k in 2 years with JUST COVID on the death certificate says it all really. The question asked was how many people had died of Covid without any other conditions. It was 17000. The people who had other conditions may have lived happily for years if they had not caught covid. I saw something once that said 2977 people died in the 9/11 attacks. 94% of them had health conditions. If we applied the same logic to what you are saying...that would mean only 178 people died of a terrorist attack on the Twin towers." | |||
"Dayly total of Deaths today from or with the Corona virus. Is it right we allow this? Considering an FOI to the ONS a few months ago stated that in England and Wales that there had been just over 17k in 2 years with JUST COVID on the death certificate says it all really. The world was told the sky would fall in on itself with COVID 2 years ago alas it has not. Turn the news off and enjoy your life before we ultimately all die one day. Also, whilst the mainstream media has you looking at covid deaths. They’re keeping pretty quiet about the 55k pages of the 329k documents Pfizer have to release every 30 days now showing these jabs aren’t just as useful as a chocolate fire guard, but you were probably better off injecting domestos " The JUST Covid "argument" has always been a nonsense argument and is dealt with elsewhere in this thread. 6.17 million people have died globally due directly to Covid or because it aggravated and existing condition. This is not serious enough to take some action? What scale of death would be? The FDA have been releasing documents on the Pfizer vaccine because a freedom of information request. It's taking a long time because there is a lot of data. There was a lot of press reporting about this. No issues have been found, so is there being nothing to report the same as "keeping quiet"? | |||
"So your happy with 300+dying a day? Did the 317 die of covid 19 or did the 317 die after testing positive for covid 19 in the previous 28 days? I think your question lacks sufficient nuance. What matters is establishing whether Covid aggravated or accelerated a pre-existing condition that might otherwise not caused the person to die so soon or possibly at all! I can understand the covid fatigue, and the numbers are stupidly high again, and as the op said, if we had a terror attack killing over 300 every day for 6 months there would be outrage with the lack of response. But there's no appetite to do much about it. I'm very surprised we haven't had another round of boosters, unless they are timing the booster run for next autumn to try and get us through the winter. I suppose we've all got a few months before next autumn to lose a bit of weight and get a bit fitter / healthier so our risk profile is improved. " Well put. Losing weight really important for covid. Would also help diabetics and pre-diabetics.. Vitamin D supplements useful after summer again. | |||
"Dayly total of Deaths today from or with the Corona virus. Is it right we allow this? Considering an FOI to the ONS a few months ago stated that in England and Wales that there had been just over 17k in 2 years with JUST COVID on the death certificate says it all really. The question asked was how many people had died of Covid without any other conditions. It was 17000. The people who had other conditions may have lived happily for years if they had not caught covid. I saw something once that said 2977 people died in the 9/11 attacks. 94% of them had health conditions. If we applied the same logic to what you are saying...that would mean only 178 people died of a terrorist attack on the Twin towers. Ooh I like that logic... We could apply it to the 1000s being killed by Russians right now and if we take out those that are young, old, or have a disease... Well they've probably not killed many at all. " Let's go further and say we will all die one day, no exceptions. So taking this logic further, covid ultimately kills none of us. I mean, talk about painting the rosiest picture possible  | |||
"Before Covid, how many people died each day in UK ?" Many more than 300! | |||
"Before Covid, how many people died each day in UK ? Many more than 300!" Before covid about 10000 people a week died on average. Been about 11000 a week during covid. | |||
"So your happy with 300+dying a day?" Its 300 plus dying with covid not from covid...massive difference | |||
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"Ahh they were old or weak and would have died anyway... Doesn't matter that they died a few weeks or months or years before they would have... And it really doesn't matter that they died a slow and tortured death, gasping for air, tortured and frightened.... No that doesn't matter, what matter is "of" or "with". " | |||
"Before Covid, how many people died each day in UK ?" Exactly non of us had a clue the daily death rate unless you worked in that sector and how many deaths are they added to that list that may have died but not of covid | |||
"So your happy with 300+dying a day? Its 300 plus dying with covid not from covid...massive difference" True but by that logic 140000 people die with cancer but virtual none die of cancer. | |||
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"Before Covid, how many people died each day in UK ? Many more than 300! Before covid about 10000 people a week died on average. Been about 11000 a week during covid." Correct. There's generally about 550,000 to 600,000 deaths a year in the UK and slightly more births, eg in 2020, there were 681,560 live births. So on average 1650 people a day were dying in the UK without covid being around. Trying to estimate excess mortality from COVID-19 is fraught with difficulty although it is safe to say there have been excess deaths from SARS-CoV-2 infection, particularly in 2020. However, social distancing mandates and other pandemic restrictions might have decreased deaths from some other infectious diseases and injuries, such as road accidents and increased others, such as deaths from chronic and acute conditions affected by deferred care-seeking in overstretched health-care systems. Working out how many excess deaths there've been is a complex research challenge. It is not as easy as just counting up each country’s excess mortality figures. Some official data in this regard is flawed, scientists have found. And around 120 countries do not collect reliable statistics on expected or actual deaths at all, or do not release them in a timely manner. The World Health Organization (WHO) is still working on its global estimate, but the Economist magazine in London has used a machine-learning approach to produce a global estimate of 13 million to 23 million excess deaths — or between 2 and 4 times the pandemic’s official toll so far. | |||
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"If living with the virus in the way we do is just not sustainable individually or to the economy as a whole, what do you suggest we do? " It needs an international solution, we cannot just solve it ourselves. Masking would help and other simple non pharmaceutical interventions( improved ventilation). Better vaccines ( intranasal) to suppress transmission better- and these are in development. Ultimately we can’t get rid of it but we could suppress it better to a lower incidence and everyone would benefit . But we cannot go on thinking getting infected twice a year is normal or sustainable | |||
"If living with the virus in the way we do is just not sustainable individually or to the economy as a whole, what do you suggest we do? It needs an international solution, we cannot just solve it ourselves. Masking would help and other simple non pharmaceutical interventions( improved ventilation). Better vaccines ( intranasal) to suppress transmission better- and these are in development. Ultimately we can’t get rid of it but we could suppress it better to a lower incidence and everyone would benefit . But we cannot go on thinking getting infected twice a year is normal or sustainable " A local solution would at least be a start. | |||
"From the virus is one thing, with the virus means something else may be to blame. Terminal disease, accidents, murder, old age, natural causes, will still happen sadly after this plague has left us. " Indeed like taxes, death is unavoidable- however since the start of the pandemic, life expectancy has dropped 2 years and it’s still dropping. Covid is not going anywhere for a while yet…… so when are we going to get those 2+ years back? | |||
"From the virus is one thing, with the virus means something else may be to blame. Terminal disease, accidents, murder, old age, natural causes, will still happen sadly after this plague has left us. Indeed like taxes, death is unavoidable- however since the start of the pandemic, life expectancy has dropped 2 years and it’s still dropping. Covid is not going anywhere for a while yet…… so when are we going to get those 2+ years back?" We aren't. We should grasp lowered quality and length of life with both hands and be grateful | |||
"Ahh they were old or weak and would have died anyway... Doesn't matter that they died a few weeks or months or years before they would have... And it really doesn't matter that they died a slow and tortured death, gasping for air, tortured and frightened.... No that doesn't matter, what matter is "of" or "with". " Well said | |||
"Ahh they were old or weak and would have died anyway... Doesn't matter that they died a few weeks or months or years before they would have... And it really doesn't matter that they died a slow and tortured death, gasping for air, tortured and frightened.... No that doesn't matter, what matter is "of" or "with". " As opposed to the without Covid deaths where after kissing loved ones goodbye, she settles back in her fluffy bed content on meeting her maker, dreaming off to sleep with a smile as life softly, calmly passes. | |||
"If living with the virus in the way we do is just not sustainable individually or to the economy as a whole, what do you suggest we do? It needs an international solution, we cannot just solve it ourselves. Masking would help and other simple non pharmaceutical interventions( improved ventilation). Better vaccines ( intranasal) to suppress transmission better- and these are in development. Ultimately we can’t get rid of it but we could suppress it better to a lower incidence and everyone would benefit . But we cannot go on thinking getting infected twice a year is normal or sustainable A local solution would at least be a start. " | |||
"If living with the virus in the way we do is just not sustainable individually or to the economy as a whole, what do you suggest we do? It needs an international solution, we cannot just solve it ourselves. Masking would help and other simple non pharmaceutical interventions( improved ventilation). Better vaccines ( intranasal) to suppress transmission better- and these are in development. Ultimately we can’t get rid of it but we could suppress it better to a lower incidence and everyone would benefit . But we cannot go on thinking getting infected twice a year is normal or sustainable A local solution would at least be a start. "You made a good point with your international solution comments, then gave the thumbs up to local solutions! With international travel back in almost full swing, local solutions are pretty pointless. | |||
"Ahh they were old or weak and would have died anyway... Doesn't matter that they died a few weeks or months or years before they would have... And it really doesn't matter that they died a slow and tortured death, gasping for air, tortured and frightened.... No that doesn't matter, what matter is "of" or "with". As opposed to the without Covid deaths where after kissing loved ones goodbye, she settles back in her fluffy bed content on meeting her maker, dreaming off to sleep with a smile as life softly, calmly passes. " Thing is... It isn't death top trumps is it? In the real world preventing deaths and preventing any deaths being painful and slow deaths is a good thing. | |||
"Ahh they were old or weak and would have died anyway... Doesn't matter that they died a few weeks or months or years before they would have... And it really doesn't matter that they died a slow and tortured death, gasping for air, tortured and frightened.... No that doesn't matter, what matter is "of" or "with". As opposed to the without Covid deaths where after kissing loved ones goodbye, she settles back in her fluffy bed content on meeting her maker, dreaming off to sleep with a smile as life softly, calmly passes. Thing is... It isn't death top trumps is it? In the real world preventing deaths and preventing any deaths being painful and slow deaths is a good thing. " Correct. Occasional exception. Thinking of a monster in Moscow atm. Very very slow and very very painful would be a good thing. | |||
"If living with the virus in the way we do is just not sustainable individually or to the economy as a whole, what do you suggest we do? It needs an international solution, we cannot just solve it ourselves. Masking would help and other simple non pharmaceutical interventions( improved ventilation). Better vaccines ( intranasal) to suppress transmission better- and these are in development. Ultimately we can’t get rid of it but we could suppress it better to a lower incidence and everyone would benefit . But we cannot go on thinking getting infected twice a year is normal or sustainable A local solution would at least be a start.
You made a good point with your international solution comments, then gave the thumbs up to local solutions!
With international travel back in almost full swing, local solutions are pretty pointless. "So, if Covid is a clusterfuck in country A, reducing spread in country B is pointless? Maybe we should just not do anything and blame other people when nothing gets done. That makes sense | |||
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""Maybe we should just not do anything and blame other people when nothing gets done" No, you buy time to get vaccines and anti virals and learn more about it. We did that and now it's time to live with it. We're doing that too. We could not go on with all the restrictions forever. You do realise covid will be with us forever? " Yup, sure do. So it's totes cool that everyone is getting a disease associated with increased all cause mortality after even mild infections, increased autoimmunity, reduced cognition, etc. You want to go play around with that, plus all the stuff we don't know about yet, by all means, I'm not stopping you. I just think mitigating disease impact might lead to less severe outcomes. Including in those - like kids - who don't have the power to mitigate their risk like adults might choose to. | |||
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"My 90 year old father needed an ambulance last week. He lives approximately 15 minutes drive (obeying speed limits) from the largest hospital in his county. He was on the floor and unable to move. The ambulance took 12 and a half hours to arrive, because of every hospital in the county being totally blocked with covid cases. I think that every person reading this thread should hope and pray that you do not have any emergency requiring immediate treatment, as basically you will die. I note that this situation has only arisen since the government announced that the covid pandemic was over and that all infection control measures should be stopped." Hope he's ok !!! | |||
"My 90 year old father needed an ambulance last week. He lives approximately 15 minutes drive (obeying speed limits) from the largest hospital in his county. He was on the floor and unable to move. The ambulance took 12 and a half hours to arrive, because of every hospital in the county being totally blocked with covid cases. I think that every person reading this thread should hope and pray that you do not have any emergency requiring immediate treatment, as basically you will die. I note that this situation has only arisen since the government announced that the covid pandemic was over and that all infection control measures should be stopped." I hope your father will be OK. But honestly, I haven't seen any Govt announcement that the pandemic is over and 'all infection control measures should be stopped'. On the contrary, the UK Govt recommends you Get vaccinated. Let fresh air in if meeting others indoors. Practise good hygiene: wash your hands cover your coughs and sneezes clean your surroundings frequently Wear a face covering or a face mask. We are severely in debt cannot afford never ending free tests and more virtually useless lockdowns with more damaging effects on children's education and the nation's non-covid health. | |||
""Maybe we should just not do anything and blame other people when nothing gets done" No, you buy time to get vaccines and anti virals and learn more about it. We did that and now it's time to live with it. We're doing that too. We could not go on with all the restrictions forever. You do realise covid will be with us forever? Yup, sure do. So it's totes cool that everyone is getting a disease associated with increased all cause mortality after even mild infections, increased autoimmunity, reduced cognition, etc. You want to go play around with that, plus all the stuff we don't know about yet, by all means, I'm not stopping you. I just think mitigating disease impact might lead to less severe outcomes. Including in those - like kids - who don't have the power to mitigate their risk like adults might choose to." What on earth is 'increased autoimmunity'? And what do you think the effect on children's education will be if we shut all schools again? There are measures in place for mitigating disease impact - free vaccines, common sense health and hygiene advice, affordable face masks, free covid anti viral treatment on the NHS if required. Perhaps you can advise us all, including the Dept of Health, what else will resolve all your concerns. But remember, everything has to be paid for in the end and we are in severe debt. Nobody is 'totes cool' with a pandemic but maximum restrictions until the last earthly case of covid is eradicated, is unaffordable and unrealistic. | |||
""Maybe we should just not do anything and blame other people when nothing gets done" No, you buy time to get vaccines and anti virals and learn more about it. We did that and now it's time to live with it. We're doing that too. We could not go on with all the restrictions forever. You do realise covid will be with us forever? Yup, sure do. So it's totes cool that everyone is getting a disease associated with increased all cause mortality after even mild infections, increased autoimmunity, reduced cognition, etc. You want to go play around with that, plus all the stuff we don't know about yet, by all means, I'm not stopping you. I just think mitigating disease impact might lead to less severe outcomes. Including in those - like kids - who don't have the power to mitigate their risk like adults might choose to. What on earth is 'increased autoimmunity'? And what do you think the effect on children's education will be if we shut all schools again? There are measures in place for mitigating disease impact - free vaccines, common sense health and hygiene advice, affordable face masks, free covid anti viral treatment on the NHS if required. Perhaps you can advise us all, including the Dept of Health, what else will resolve all your concerns. But remember, everything has to be paid for in the end and we are in severe debt. Nobody is 'totes cool' with a pandemic but maximum restrictions until the last earthly case of covid is eradicated, is unaffordable and unrealistic. " Increased autoimmunity is onset and increasing of autoimmune disorders. The body of literature about the effects of Covid infection is growing, and growing ever more concerning. Did I say shut schools or maximum restrictions? I was thinking air filtration, but I recognise that these days people jump to ridiculous extremes. You may prioritise the economy over your health. I do not. Your body, your choice. My body, my choice. I just hope the kids - who do not have a choice - will be ok. | |||
"My 90 year old father needed an ambulance last week. He lives approximately 15 minutes drive (obeying speed limits) from the largest hospital in his county. He was on the floor and unable to move. The ambulance took 12 and a half hours to arrive, because of every hospital in the county being totally blocked with covid cases. I think that every person reading this thread should hope and pray that you do not have any emergency requiring immediate treatment, as basically you will die. I note that this situation has only arisen since the government announced that the covid pandemic was over and that all infection control measures should be stopped." I had reason to take my daughter to a and e last week. Put 3 hours parking on but with an app I can,and expected to, top up with. ‘12+ hours wait’ read the sign at reception. We left with prescription in less than an hour! 3 staff behind the counter, doctor called us within 10 mins, 4 staff having a break behind the curtain in a cubicle… Honestly the fastest a and e visit I have ever had! Luckily she didn’t need an ambulance | |||
""Maybe we should just not do anything and blame other people when nothing gets done" No, you buy time to get vaccines and anti virals and learn more about it. We did that and now it's time to live with it. We're doing that too. We could not go on with all the restrictions forever. You do realise covid will be with us forever? Yup, sure do. So it's totes cool that everyone is getting a disease associated with increased all cause mortality after even mild infections, increased autoimmunity, reduced cognition, etc. You want to go play around with that, plus all the stuff we don't know about yet, by all means, I'm not stopping you. I just think mitigating disease impact might lead to less severe outcomes. Including in those - like kids - who don't have the power to mitigate their risk like adults might choose to. What on earth is 'increased autoimmunity'? And what do you think the effect on children's education will be if we shut all schools again? There are measures in place for mitigating disease impact - free vaccines, common sense health and hygiene advice, affordable face masks, free covid anti viral treatment on the NHS if required. Perhaps you can advise us all, including the Dept of Health, what else will resolve all your concerns. But remember, everything has to be paid for in the end and we are in severe debt. Nobody is 'totes cool' with a pandemic but maximum restrictions until the last earthly case of covid is eradicated, is unaffordable and unrealistic. Increased autoimmunity is onset and increasing of autoimmune disorders. The body of literature about the effects of Covid infection is growing, and growing ever more concerning. Did I say shut schools or maximum restrictions? I was thinking air filtration, but I recognise that these days people jump to ridiculous extremes. You may prioritise the economy over your health. I do not. Your body, your choice. My body, my choice. I just hope the kids - who do not have a choice - will be ok." Its no good 'thinking air filtration' you need to say it! Missing words out is no help on a written forum. Like 'disorders' being missed out after 'autoimmune'. I don't necessarily doubt 'the body of literature about the effects of Covid infection is growing and growing ever more concerning' but we are where we are. In severe debt. Your health cannot be looked after with no taxes to run the NHS. It's basic economics | |||
"My 90 year old father needed an ambulance last week. He lives approximately 15 minutes drive (obeying speed limits) from the largest hospital in his county. He was on the floor and unable to move. The ambulance took 12 and a half hours to arrive, because of every hospital in the county being totally blocked with covid cases. I think that every person reading this thread should hope and pray that you do not have any emergency requiring immediate treatment, as basically you will die. I note that this situation has only arisen since the government announced that the covid pandemic was over and that all infection control measures should be stopped. I had reason to take my daughter to a and e last week. Put 3 hours parking on but with an app I can,and expected to, top up with. ‘12+ hours wait’ read the sign at reception. We left with prescription in less than an hour! 3 staff behind the counter, doctor called us within 10 mins, 4 staff having a break behind the curtain in a cubicle… Honestly the fastest a and e visit I have ever had! Luckily she didn’t need an ambulance " The lady from Wigan's father undoubtedly had a terrible experience. But many more like you have had wonderful experiences from our marvellous NHS | |||
"My 90 year old father needed an ambulance last week. He lives approximately 15 minutes drive (obeying speed limits) from the largest hospital in his county. He was on the floor and unable to move. The ambulance took 12 and a half hours to arrive, because of every hospital in the county being totally blocked with covid cases. I think that every person reading this thread should hope and pray that you do not have any emergency requiring immediate treatment, as basically you will die. I note that this situation has only arisen since the government announced that the covid pandemic was over and that all infection control measures should be stopped. I had reason to take my daughter to a and e last week. Put 3 hours parking on but with an app I can,and expected to, top up with. ‘12+ hours wait’ read the sign at reception. We left with prescription in less than an hour! 3 staff behind the counter, doctor called us within 10 mins, 4 staff having a break behind the curtain in a cubicle… Honestly the fastest a and e visit I have ever had! Luckily she didn’t need an ambulance The lady from Wigan's father undoubtedly had a terrible experience. But many more like you have had wonderful experiences from our marvellous NHS "Absolutely! The service has never managed this turnaround in 40 odd years … whilst in this crisis 9 visible staff were able ( between holiday chats etc) were able to process a child in an hour! Something doesn’t add up! | |||
"Dayly total of Deaths today from or with the Corona virus. Is it right we allow this?" Of course we allow it. The government has said live with it, there are no rules in place only guidelines. So they seem happy to let people catch it, they know some will die from it. | |||
""Maybe we should just not do anything and blame other people when nothing gets done" No, you buy time to get vaccines and anti virals and learn more about it. We did that and now it's time to live with it. We're doing that too. We could not go on with all the restrictions forever. You do realise covid will be with us forever? Yup, sure do. So it's totes cool that everyone is getting a disease associated with increased all cause mortality after even mild infections, increased autoimmunity, reduced cognition, etc. You want to go play around with that, plus all the stuff we don't know about yet, by all means, I'm not stopping you. I just think mitigating disease impact might lead to less severe outcomes. Including in those - like kids - who don't have the power to mitigate their risk like adults might choose to. What on earth is 'increased autoimmunity'? And what do you think the effect on children's education will be if we shut all schools again? There are measures in place for mitigating disease impact - free vaccines, common sense health and hygiene advice, affordable face masks, free covid anti viral treatment on the NHS if required. Perhaps you can advise us all, including the Dept of Health, what else will resolve all your concerns. But remember, everything has to be paid for in the end and we are in severe debt. Nobody is 'totes cool' with a pandemic but maximum restrictions until the last earthly case of covid is eradicated, is unaffordable and unrealistic. Increased autoimmunity is onset and increasing of autoimmune disorders. The body of literature about the effects of Covid infection is growing, and growing ever more concerning. Did I say shut schools or maximum restrictions? I was thinking air filtration, but I recognise that these days people jump to ridiculous extremes. You may prioritise the economy over your health. I do not. Your body, your choice. My body, my choice. I just hope the kids - who do not have a choice - will be ok. Its no good 'thinking air filtration' you need to say it! Missing words out is no help on a written forum. Like 'disorders' being missed out after 'autoimmune'. I don't necessarily doubt 'the body of literature about the effects of Covid infection is growing and growing ever more concerning' but we are where we are. In severe debt. Your health cannot be looked after with no taxes to run the NHS. It's basic economics "Ok, enjoy your basic economics and the way all this "going back to normal" is going for so many businesses. I'm not sure why installing air filtration stops the economy, but hey. I'll keep enjoying my FFP3s and my staying at home. | |||
"My 90 year old father needed an ambulance last week. He lives approximately 15 minutes drive (obeying speed limits) from the largest hospital in his county. He was on the floor and unable to move. The ambulance took 12 and a half hours to arrive, because of every hospital in the county being totally blocked with covid cases. I think that every person reading this thread should hope and pray that you do not have any emergency requiring immediate treatment, as basically you will die. I note that this situation has only arisen since the government announced that the covid pandemic was over and that all infection control measures should be stopped. I had reason to take my daughter to a and e last week. Put 3 hours parking on but with an app I can,and expected to, top up with. ‘12+ hours wait’ read the sign at reception. We left with prescription in less than an hour! 3 staff behind the counter, doctor called us within 10 mins, 4 staff having a break behind the curtain in a cubicle… Honestly the fastest a and e visit I have ever had! Luckily she didn’t need an ambulance The lady from Wigan's father undoubtedly had a terrible experience. But many more like you have had wonderful experiences from our marvellous NHS "I'm not from Wigan. Neither is my father. His experience is absolutely typical in Cornwall. I will admit that the example I quoted was the worse of the two recent occasions when he has needed urgent medical assessment. The other occasion it only took six hours to get an ambulance. On both occasions the hospital admitted that the problem did not lie in the A+E department, which was operating on a skeleton crew but still able to patch up the cuts and bruises of walk in cases. The problem was that if a patient actually needed proper admission into a hospital bed, there were no beds available, they were all full with a surge in people whose normally non-life-threatening conditions had suddenly become life-threatening. Funnily enough, an enormous number of those people also seeming to be infected with covid. So when an ambulance went out to fetch a patient at the start of the day, 9 times out of 10 the ambulance would come back to the hospital and find that the patient could not be unloaded. Ambulances were stacked up outside the hospital, each being used as an emergency ward for the treatment of one patient. In many cases the patient having to stay in the ambulance for 6, 12 or more hours. Needless to say, when all the ambulances are occupied by patients and stuck in the car park, there are no ambulances left to go see to new emergencies. This is the reality of the UK health system at the height of a viral pandemic. None of this is the fault of the NHS, which yes, is doing the absolute best it can under the circumstances. All medical staff are totally burned out after two years of this sort of thing coming in waves, but are still giving what they can. The fault lies squarely with a government that has throughout the entire pandemic sought to minimise the seriousness of it. That told the entire population to take off their masks and forget about infection control, right at the time when the infection rate was the highest it had ever been up to that point. That even as infection has doubled and doubled and doubled again, has kept fairy tale telling that there isn't really any problem. That has actually halted counting the deaths. A government whose entire plan for the foreseeable future of an ongoing pandemic is to hope that it will just miraculously go away. A government that has successfully gaslit the vast majority of the population. | |||
"Dayly total of Deaths today from or with the Corona virus. Is it right we allow this? Of course we allow it. The government has said live with it, there are no rules in place only guidelines. So they seem happy to let people catch it, they know some will die from it." They not only know that some will die from it, they actually plan and hope for many to die from it. Best thing that they have ever had for cutting down the number of old people needing to be paid a pension. Leaves loads of money for reducing the tax burden on the super rich! | |||
For the vast majority, we wouldn't even know it was Covid if we weren't sticking a bloody swab up our noses. For most people it's a mild inconvenience for a couple of days, just like all the other countless bugs we've lived with for ever. | |||
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"My 90 year old father needed an ambulance last week. He lives approximately 15 minutes drive (obeying speed limits) from the largest hospital in his county. He was on the floor and unable to move. The ambulance took 12 and a half hours to arrive, because of every hospital in the county being totally blocked with covid cases. I think that every person reading this thread should hope and pray that you do not have any emergency requiring immediate treatment, as basically you will die. I note that this situation has only arisen since the government announced that the covid pandemic was over and that all infection control measures should be stopped. I had reason to take my daughter to a and e last week. Put 3 hours parking on but with an app I can,and expected to, top up with. ‘12+ hours wait’ read the sign at reception. We left with prescription in less than an hour! 3 staff behind the counter, doctor called us within 10 mins, 4 staff having a break behind the curtain in a cubicle… Honestly the fastest a and e visit I have ever had! Luckily she didn’t need an ambulance The lady from Wigan's father undoubtedly had a terrible experience. But many more like you have had wonderful experiences from our marvellous NHS
I'm not from Wigan. Neither is my father. His experience is absolutely typical in Cornwall. I will admit that the example I quoted was the worse of the two recent occasions when he has needed urgent medical assessment. The other occasion it only took six hours to get an ambulance.
On both occasions the hospital admitted that the problem did not lie in the A+E department, which was operating on a skeleton crew but still able to patch up the cuts and bruises of walk in cases. The problem was that if a patient actually needed proper admission into a hospital bed, there were no beds available, they were all full with a surge in people whose normally non-life-threatening conditions had suddenly become life-threatening. Funnily enough, an enormous number of those people also seeming to be infected with covid.
So when an ambulance went out to fetch a patient at the start of the day, 9 times out of 10 the ambulance would come back to the hospital and find that the patient could not be unloaded. Ambulances were stacked up outside the hospital, each being used as an emergency ward for the treatment of one patient. In many cases the patient having to stay in the ambulance for 6, 12 or more hours.
Needless to say, when all the ambulances are occupied by patients and stuck in the car park, there are no ambulances left to go see to new emergencies.
This is the reality of the UK health system at the height of a viral pandemic.
None of this is the fault of the NHS, which yes, is doing the absolute best it can under the circumstances. All medical staff are totally burned out after two years of this sort of thing coming in waves, but are still giving what they can. The fault lies squarely with a government that has throughout the entire pandemic sought to minimise the seriousness of it. That told the entire population to take off their masks and forget about infection control, right at the time when the infection rate was the highest it had ever been up to that point. That even as infection has doubled and doubled and doubled again, has kept fairy tale telling that there isn't really any problem. That has actually halted counting the deaths. A government whose entire plan for the foreseeable future of an ongoing pandemic is to hope that it will just miraculously go away. A government that has successfully gaslit the vast majority of the population."Apologies for the location error! The lady from Wigan had a good experience, yours was awful in Cornwall. However, the Govt more or less did what most European countries did and was arguably the most generous with furlough. No Govt official has told me to take my mask off and I can still access the daily figures in a few clicks. Advice about infection control is everywhere, from the infernal social distance stickers on the floor to gel stations etc. You have adopted grossly extreme statements to represent an essential loosening of the restrictions now that vaccines have drastically reduced the risk of hospitalisation /death for most people and that anti virals are in place. Yes, sadly some will still die. T'was ever thus. And always will be. Flu, sepsis, mrsa still lurk, ready to pounce on the extremely ill and /or vulnerable. Mother nature can be a cruel bitch. | |||
"Strange how ordinary flu, which is a killer of the vulnerable doesn't exist any more
For the vast majority, we wouldn't even know it was Covid if we weren't sticking a bloody swab up our noses. For most people it's a mild inconvenience for a couple of days, just like all the other countless bugs we've lived with for ever." | |||
"Strange how ordinary flu, which is a killer of the vulnerable doesn't exist any more
For the vast majority, we wouldn't even know it was Covid if we weren't sticking a bloody swab up our noses. For most people it's a mild inconvenience for a couple of days, just like all the other countless bugs we've lived with for ever.
"Flu is still very much around I have transported more than just a few confirmation swabs most weeks but it’s below the threshold because people washing hands and taking better care on the whole | |||
"Strange how ordinary flu, which is a killer of the vulnerable doesn't exist any more
For the vast majority, we wouldn't even know it was Covid if we weren't sticking a bloody swab up our noses. For most people it's a mild inconvenience for a couple of days, just like all the other countless bugs we've lived with for ever.
Flu is still very much around I have transported more than just a few confirmation swabs most weeks but it’s below the threshold because people washing hands and taking better care on the whole "I know- I was being sarcastic!! Everyone has become so addicted to hearing about Covid, which for the majority of people is pretty harmless in it's current form, but forgetting a few other bugs which are probably affecting people in a worse way | |||
"Strange how ordinary flu, which is a killer of the vulnerable doesn't exist any more
For the vast majority, we wouldn't even know it was Covid if we weren't sticking a bloody swab up our noses. For most people it's a mild inconvenience for a couple of days, just like all the other countless bugs we've lived with for ever.
Flu is still very much around I have transported more than just a few confirmation swabs most weeks but it’s below the threshold because people washing hands and taking better care on the whole
I know- I was being sarcastic!! Everyone has become so addicted to hearing about Covid, which for the majority of people is pretty harmless in it's current form, but forgetting a few other bugs which are probably affecting people in a worse way "I think you're right. We have been "programmed" after 2 years of non stop covid stop press, every waking moment you see a sign of it, that some of us struggle to think of anything else. And having had a shitty cough cold for 3 weeks I wonder the impact of dodging infections has on our long term immune system. That said covid is still a massive impact on some individuals and the security blanket that is the nhs and ignoring it isn't going to be any help either. | |||
"Strange how ordinary flu, which is a killer of the vulnerable doesn't exist any more
For the vast majority, we wouldn't even know it was Covid if we weren't sticking a bloody swab up our noses. For most people it's a mild inconvenience for a couple of days, just like all the other countless bugs we've lived with for ever."It’s to do with R values, R value of flu is about 1.3, Omicron is about 3.5, even moderate non pharmaceutical interventions will stop flu spreading but not so Omicron. Omicron is 40% more lethal than flu- even with vaccines so if your CV or CEV your chances of catching omicron are higher and the outcome once infected is less optimistic. Yes you are right most of us are unaffected by omicron but do we know who are the CV/ CEV amongst us? | |||
""Maybe we should just not do anything and blame other people when nothing gets done" No, you buy time to get vaccines and anti virals and learn more about it. We did that and now it's time to live with it. We're doing that too. We could not go on with all the restrictions forever. You do realise covid will be with us forever? Yup, sure do. So it's totes cool that everyone is getting a disease associated with increased all cause mortality after even mild infections, increased autoimmunity, reduced cognition, etc. You want to go play around with that, plus all the stuff we don't know about yet, by all means, I'm not stopping you. I just think mitigating disease impact might lead to less severe outcomes. Including in those - like kids - who don't have the power to mitigate their risk like adults might choose to. What on earth is 'increased autoimmunity'? And what do you think the effect on children's education will be if we shut all schools again? There are measures in place for mitigating disease impact - free vaccines, common sense health and hygiene advice, affordable face masks, free covid anti viral treatment on the NHS if required. Perhaps you can advise us all, including the Dept of Health, what else will resolve all your concerns. But remember, everything has to be paid for in the end and we are in severe debt. Nobody is 'totes cool' with a pandemic but maximum restrictions until the last earthly case of covid is eradicated, is unaffordable and unrealistic. Increased autoimmunity is onset and increasing of autoimmune disorders. The body of literature about the effects of Covid infection is growing, and growing ever more concerning. Did I say shut schools or maximum restrictions? I was thinking air filtration, but I recognise that these days people jump to ridiculous extremes. You may prioritise the economy over your health. I do not. Your body, your choice. My body, my choice. I just hope the kids - who do not have a choice - will be ok. Its no good 'thinking air filtration' you need to say it! Missing words out is no help on a written forum. Like 'disorders' being missed out after 'autoimmune'. I don't necessarily doubt 'the body of literature about the effects of Covid infection is growing and growing ever more concerning' but we are where we are. In severe debt. Your health cannot be looked after with no taxes to run the NHS. It's basic economics "The debt we are experiencing now will be dwarfed in the future if we have a proportion of our population permanently disabled by long Covid. | |||
"Dayly total of Deaths today from or with the Corona virus. Is it right we allow this? Definitely not right we allow it. I think we should social distance, wash our hands properly, wear masks and get vaccinated. If only it was possible to do that..... Winston Yeah let's hide away, shield for years, destroy your natural immune system and suffer like mad if ever you get a cold. " | |||
"So your happy with 300+dying a day?" They are not all dying because of covid | |||
""Maybe we should just not do anything and blame other people when nothing gets done" No, you buy time to get vaccines and anti virals and learn more about it. We did that and now it's time to live with it. We're doing that too. We could not go on with all the restrictions forever. You do realise covid will be with us forever? Yup, sure do. So it's totes cool that everyone is getting a disease associated with increased all cause mortality after even mild infections, increased autoimmunity, reduced cognition, etc. You want to go play around with that, plus all the stuff we don't know about yet, by all means, I'm not stopping you. I just think mitigating disease impact might lead to less severe outcomes. Including in those - like kids - who don't have the power to mitigate their risk like adults might choose to. What on earth is 'increased autoimmunity'? And what do you think the effect on children's education will be if we shut all schools again? There are measures in place for mitigating disease impact - free vaccines, common sense health and hygiene advice, affordable face masks, free covid anti viral treatment on the NHS if required. Perhaps you can advise us all, including the Dept of Health, what else will resolve all your concerns. But remember, everything has to be paid for in the end and we are in severe debt. Nobody is 'totes cool' with a pandemic but maximum restrictions until the last earthly case of covid is eradicated, is unaffordable and unrealistic. Increased autoimmunity is onset and increasing of autoimmune disorders. The body of literature about the effects of Covid infection is growing, and growing ever more concerning. Did I say shut schools or maximum restrictions? I was thinking air filtration, but I recognise that these days people jump to ridiculous extremes. You may prioritise the economy over your health. I do not. Your body, your choice. My body, my choice. I just hope the kids - who do not have a choice - will be ok. Its no good 'thinking air filtration' you need to say it! Missing words out is no help on a written forum. Like 'disorders' being missed out after 'autoimmune'. I don't necessarily doubt 'the body of literature about the effects of Covid infection is growing and growing ever more concerning' but we are where we are. In severe debt. Your health cannot be looked after with no taxes to run the NHS. It's basic economics
The debt we are experiencing now will be dwarfed in the future if we have a proportion of our population permanently disabled by long Covid. "Nonsense. 11.7 million employee jobs were furloughed through the scheme, at a cost of £70 billion. It is nonsense to suggest more than 11.7 million people will get long covid so bad as to totally prevent any employment. | |||
""Maybe we should just not do anything and blame other people when nothing gets done" No, you buy time to get vaccines and anti virals and learn more about it. We did that and now it's time to live with it. We're doing that too. We could not go on with all the restrictions forever. You do realise covid will be with us forever? Yup, sure do. So it's totes cool that everyone is getting a disease associated with increased all cause mortality after even mild infections, increased autoimmunity, reduced cognition, etc. You want to go play around with that, plus all the stuff we don't know about yet, by all means, I'm not stopping you. I just think mitigating disease impact might lead to less severe outcomes. Including in those - like kids - who don't have the power to mitigate their risk like adults might choose to. What on earth is 'increased autoimmunity'? And what do you think the effect on children's education will be if we shut all schools again? There are measures in place for mitigating disease impact - free vaccines, common sense health and hygiene advice, affordable face masks, free covid anti viral treatment on the NHS if required. Perhaps you can advise us all, including the Dept of Health, what else will resolve all your concerns. But remember, everything has to be paid for in the end and we are in severe debt. Nobody is 'totes cool' with a pandemic but maximum restrictions until the last earthly case of covid is eradicated, is unaffordable and unrealistic. Increased autoimmunity is onset and increasing of autoimmune disorders. The body of literature about the effects of Covid infection is growing, and growing ever more concerning. Did I say shut schools or maximum restrictions? I was thinking air filtration, but I recognise that these days people jump to ridiculous extremes. You may prioritise the economy over your health. I do not. Your body, your choice. My body, my choice. I just hope the kids - who do not have a choice - will be ok. Its no good 'thinking air filtration' you need to say it! Missing words out is no help on a written forum. Like 'disorders' being missed out after 'autoimmune'. I don't necessarily doubt 'the body of literature about the effects of Covid infection is growing and growing ever more concerning' but we are where we are. In severe debt. Your health cannot be looked after with no taxes to run the NHS. It's basic economics
The debt we are experiencing now will be dwarfed in the future if we have a proportion of our population permanently disabled by long Covid.
Nonsense. 11.7 million employee jobs were furloughed through the scheme, at a cost of £70 billion. It is nonsense to suggest more than 11.7 million people will get long covid so bad as to totally prevent any employment. "Try treating 1 million people for 40years- average life span- benefits and medical treatments- you will easily get into the hundreds of billions. Plus the loss of their input to the economy and economic growth. It’s a question of what has happened over the past few years versus the cost over a life time | |||
""Maybe we should just not do anything and blame other people when nothing gets done" No, you buy time to get vaccines and anti virals and learn more about it. We did that and now it's time to live with it. We're doing that too. We could not go on with all the restrictions forever. You do realise covid will be with us forever? Yup, sure do. So it's totes cool that everyone is getting a disease associated with increased all cause mortality after even mild infections, increased autoimmunity, reduced cognition, etc. You want to go play around with that, plus all the stuff we don't know about yet, by all means, I'm not stopping you. I just think mitigating disease impact might lead to less severe outcomes. Including in those - like kids - who don't have the power to mitigate their risk like adults might choose to. What on earth is 'increased autoimmunity'? And what do you think the effect on children's education will be if we shut all schools again? There are measures in place for mitigating disease impact - free vaccines, common sense health and hygiene advice, affordable face masks, free covid anti viral treatment on the NHS if required. Perhaps you can advise us all, including the Dept of Health, what else will resolve all your concerns. But remember, everything has to be paid for in the end and we are in severe debt. Nobody is 'totes cool' with a pandemic but maximum restrictions until the last earthly case of covid is eradicated, is unaffordable and unrealistic. Increased autoimmunity is onset and increasing of autoimmune disorders. The body of literature about the effects of Covid infection is growing, and growing ever more concerning. Did I say shut schools or maximum restrictions? I was thinking air filtration, but I recognise that these days people jump to ridiculous extremes. You may prioritise the economy over your health. I do not. Your body, your choice. My body, my choice. I just hope the kids - who do not have a choice - will be ok. Its no good 'thinking air filtration' you need to say it! Missing words out is no help on a written forum. Like 'disorders' being missed out after 'autoimmune'. I don't necessarily doubt 'the body of literature about the effects of Covid infection is growing and growing ever more concerning' but we are where we are. In severe debt. Your health cannot be looked after with no taxes to run the NHS. It's basic economics
The debt we are experiencing now will be dwarfed in the future if we have a proportion of our population permanently disabled by long Covid. "So higher taxes all around | |||
"Are we allowing this ? Or is it just happening ? You been to ask how many others die of other things daily (we all got to go sometime)
Your never going to stomp out things that will kill you it’s just a fact of life
It’s generally accepted that in a civilised society, when there is an issue causing people to die prematurely we take available measures to prevent it, rather than just shrug our shoulders and give up.
Unfortunately our incompetent government has taken the ‘shrug shoulders and give up’ approach, as it does on nearly every issue requiring competent government."What exactly is prematurely? The actual age of death in this country has gone up not down. Cancer, road traffic accidents, murder, lots of medical conditions cause premature deaths | |||
" Vaccines do not "destroy your natural immune system", they stimulate them. If you get a cold, you get a cold just as you always have. I don't think the poster was referring to vaccines. Rather the idea that isolating from all infections weakens the immune system. Nobody has to isolate anymore. They haven't for several months. That's what the vaccines are for. There is no evidence of "weakened immune systems"." However, the people who didn't have the vaccine are still not having to isolate so pretty pointless argument there | |||
"Are we allowing this ? Or is it just happening ? You been to ask how many others die of other things daily (we all got to go sometime)
Your never going to stomp out things that will kill you it’s just a fact of life
It’s generally accepted that in a civilised society, when there is an issue causing people to die prematurely we take available measures to prevent it, rather than just shrug our shoulders and give up.
Unfortunately our incompetent government has taken the ‘shrug shoulders and give up’ approach, as it does on nearly every issue requiring competent government.
What exactly is prematurely? The actual age of death in this country has gone up not down. Cancer, road traffic accidents, murder, lots of medical conditions cause premature deaths "Life expectancy in the uk have pretty much rose constantly since the 30s. Weirdly life expectancy decreased in 2020 maybe something was happening maybe a deadly disease. | |||
""Maybe we should just not do anything and blame other people when nothing gets done" No, you buy time to get vaccines and anti virals and learn more about it. We did that and now it's time to live with it. We're doing that too. We could not go on with all the restrictions forever. You do realise covid will be with us forever? Yup, sure do. So it's totes cool that everyone is getting a disease associated with increased all cause mortality after even mild infections, increased autoimmunity, reduced cognition, etc. You want to go play around with that, plus all the stuff we don't know about yet, by all means, I'm not stopping you. I just think mitigating disease impact might lead to less severe outcomes. Including in those - like kids - who don't have the power to mitigate their risk like adults might choose to. What on earth is 'increased autoimmunity'? And what do you think the effect on children's education will be if we shut all schools again? There are measures in place for mitigating disease impact - free vaccines, common sense health and hygiene advice, affordable face masks, free covid anti viral treatment on the NHS if required. Perhaps you can advise us all, including the Dept of Health, what else will resolve all your concerns. But remember, everything has to be paid for in the end and we are in severe debt. Nobody is 'totes cool' with a pandemic but maximum restrictions until the last earthly case of covid is eradicated, is unaffordable and unrealistic. Increased autoimmunity is onset and increasing of autoimmune disorders. The body of literature about the effects of Covid infection is growing, and growing ever more concerning. Did I say shut schools or maximum restrictions? I was thinking air filtration, but I recognise that these days people jump to ridiculous extremes. You may prioritise the economy over your health. I do not. Your body, your choice. My body, my choice. I just hope the kids - who do not have a choice - will be ok. Its no good 'thinking air filtration' you need to say it! Missing words out is no help on a written forum. Like 'disorders' being missed out after 'autoimmune'. I don't necessarily doubt 'the body of literature about the effects of Covid infection is growing and growing ever more concerning' but we are where we are. In severe debt. Your health cannot be looked after with no taxes to run the NHS. It's basic economics
The debt we are experiencing now will be dwarfed in the future if we have a proportion of our population permanently disabled by long Covid.
Nonsense. 11.7 million employee jobs were furloughed through the scheme, at a cost of £70 billion. It is nonsense to suggest more than 11.7 million people will get long covid so bad as to totally prevent any employment.
Try treating 1 million people for 40years- average life span- benefits and medical treatments- you will easily get into the hundreds of billions. Plus the loss of their input to the economy and economic growth.
It’s a question of what has happened over the past few years versus the cost over a life time"You have no evidence 1m people are going to suffer long covid for 40 years, nobody does. Some patients, particularly older ones, less likely to be working, with co-morbidities, do experience symptoms that outlast a coronavirus infection. But such symptoms can also be psychologically generated or are thankfully disappearing. Alarmist nonsense like yours fuels laziness, as those who just fancy a fortnight off play the system with a made up positive test, or take months off with layabout covid, not long covid. Layabout covid has been a thing where I work, with the transgressor ringing in sick with 'long covid', putting pressure on a small team for weeks on end, then getting caught out with their social media output! We've just heard this week, he's dropping his planned appeal against dismissal for gross misconduct once it was pointed out to him there was sufficient evidence to pursue a fraud prosecution for claiming sick pay when not actually sick. Not to mention tying up the overstretched NHS obtaining 'sick notes'. Of course, long covid is a real thing, but it is essential to distinguish it from layabout covid which is tempting for those who've enjoyed two years either in bed or on the couch on 80% pay! | |||
"...those who've enjoyed two years either in bed or on the couch on 80% pay! " A few corrections: UK SSP is about 20% - the third lowest in Europe. It kicks in after 3 days and lasts for up to 28 weeks. | |||
"Strange how ordinary flu, which is a killer of the vulnerable doesn't exist any more
For the vast majority, we wouldn't even know it was Covid if we weren't sticking a bloody swab up our noses. For most people it's a mild inconvenience for a couple of days, just like all the other countless bugs we've lived with for ever."Every year people get the flu jab without putting up a fuss or resorting to stupid conspiracy theories. | |||
"My 90 year old father needed an ambulance last week. He lives approximately 15 minutes drive (obeying speed limits) from the largest hospital in his county. He was on the floor and unable to move. The ambulance took 12 and a half hours to arrive, because of every hospital in the county being totally blocked with covid cases. I think that every person reading this thread should hope and pray that you do not have any emergency requiring immediate treatment, as basically you will die. I note that this situation has only arisen since the government announced that the covid pandemic was over and that all infection control measures should be stopped. I hope your father will be OK. But honestly, I haven't seen any Govt announcement that the pandemic is over and 'all infection control measures should be stopped'. On the contrary, the UK Govt recommends you Get vaccinated. Let fresh air in if meeting others indoors. Practise good hygiene: wash your hands cover your coughs and sneezes clean your surroundings frequently Wear a face covering or a face mask. We are severely in debt cannot afford never ending free tests and more virtually useless lockdowns with more damaging effects on children's education and the nation's non-covid health. " The cost of free covid tests is a drop in the ocean. The government can absolutely afford to provide free covid tests for everyone. No one is suggesting we go back into lockdown. Last lockdown was over a year ago. You know what is affecting children's education? Frequent school cancellations due to outbreaks or shortages of staff due to covid. | |||
"...those who've enjoyed two years either in bed or on the couch on 80% pay! A few corrections: UK SSP is about 20% - the third lowest in Europe. It kicks in after 3 days and lasts for up to 28 weeks." OK, you tried to make one correction, rather than a few, and completely ballsed that up. I wasn't talking about statutory sick pay, but furlough. The government has been paying towards the wages of people who couldn't work, or whose employers could no longer afford to pay them, up to a monthly limit of £2,500. It paid 80% of wages for the majority of the two years 2020 and 2021. France 70%, Germany 67% and countries like Sweden, loans etc! | |||
"My 90 year old father needed an ambulance last week. He lives approximately 15 minutes drive (obeying speed limits) from the largest hospital in his county. He was on the floor and unable to move. The ambulance took 12 and a half hours to arrive, because of every hospital in the county being totally blocked with covid cases. I think that every person reading this thread should hope and pray that you do not have any emergency requiring immediate treatment, as basically you will die. I note that this situation has only arisen since the government announced that the covid pandemic was over and that all infection control measures should be stopped. I hope your father will be OK. But honestly, I haven't seen any Govt announcement that the pandemic is over and 'all infection control measures should be stopped'. On the contrary, the UK Govt recommends you Get vaccinated. Let fresh air in if meeting others indoors. Practise good hygiene: wash your hands cover your coughs and sneezes clean your surroundings frequently Wear a face covering or a face mask. We are severely in debt cannot afford never ending free tests and more virtually useless lockdowns with more damaging effects on children's education and the nation's non-covid health. The cost of free covid tests is a drop in the ocean. The government can absolutely afford to provide free covid tests for everyone. No one is suggesting we go back into lockdown. Last lockdown was over a year ago. You know what is affecting children's education? Frequent school cancellations due to outbreaks or shortages of staff due to covid." Which air filtration would help with. But that's a mitigation, which would stop the economy because magic, so we can't have that | |||
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"Ffs be interesting to see how many have died from being depressed or being reused to be seen because of the Covid narrative those that want lockdown crack on you all been conned if you believe half the shit the government says " News has obviously not reached all parts of Swindon. Never mind individual Governments across the globe, believe the World Health Organisation when they say there is a pandemic underway. Coronavirus disease (COVID-19) is an infectious disease caused by the SARS-CoV-2 virus. Most people infected with the virus will experience mild to moderate respiratory illness and recover without requiring special treatment. However, some will become seriously ill and require medical attention. Older people and those with underlying medical conditions like cardiovascular disease, diabetes, chronic respiratory disease, or cancer are more likely to develop serious illness. Anyone can get sick with COVID-19 and become seriously ill or die at any age. The best way to prevent and slow down transmission is to be well informed about the disease and how the virus spreads. Protect yourself and others from infection by staying at least 1 metre apart from others, wearing a properly fitted mask, and washing your hands or using an alcohol-based rub frequently. Get vaccinated when it’s your turn and follow local guidance. If you still don't believe any of this, preferring to believe daft nonsense like lizards got together to dupe every Government in the world to fake it all together in never-been-seen-before total harmony and unity, then write to Putin and see if he will give you a job on Russian media. Cos they spout total nonsense too and disbelieve the truth in front of their eyes. | |||
"Strange how ordinary flu, which is a killer of the vulnerable doesn't exist any more
For the vast majority, we wouldn't even know it was Covid if we weren't sticking a bloody swab up our noses. For most people it's a mild inconvenience for a couple of days, just like all the other countless bugs we've lived with for ever.
Every year people get the flu jab without putting up a fuss or resorting to stupid conspiracy theories."That's true and and again, that is not compulsory and the big point is, people don't take to forums to say others must take it and creating a fuss and defending vaccines that still are experimental. Perhaps that's why others put up a fuss. Just saying. Btw, I am fully jabbed and had covid and have long covid. | |||
"Ffs be interesting to see how many have died from being depressed or being reused to be seen because of the Covid narrative those that want lockdown crack on you all been conned if you believe half the shit the government says " Are they paying all the idiots lying in hospital with no medical issues then ? Actors ? | |||
""Maybe we should just not do anything and blame other people when nothing gets done" No, you buy time to get vaccines and anti virals and learn more about it. We did that and now it's time to live with it. We're doing that too. We could not go on with all the restrictions forever. You do realise covid will be with us forever? Yup, sure do. So it's totes cool that everyone is getting a disease associated with increased all cause mortality after even mild infections, increased autoimmunity, reduced cognition, etc. You want to go play around with that, plus all the stuff we don't know about yet, by all means, I'm not stopping you. I just think mitigating disease impact might lead to less severe outcomes. Including in those - like kids - who don't have the power to mitigate their risk like adults might choose to. What on earth is 'increased autoimmunity'? And what do you think the effect on children's education will be if we shut all schools again? There are measures in place for mitigating disease impact - free vaccines, common sense health and hygiene advice, affordable face masks, free covid anti viral treatment on the NHS if required. Perhaps you can advise us all, including the Dept of Health, what else will resolve all your concerns. But remember, everything has to be paid for in the end and we are in severe debt. Nobody is 'totes cool' with a pandemic but maximum restrictions until the last earthly case of covid is eradicated, is unaffordable and unrealistic. Increased autoimmunity is onset and increasing of autoimmune disorders. The body of literature about the effects of Covid infection is growing, and growing ever more concerning. Did I say shut schools or maximum restrictions? I was thinking air filtration, but I recognise that these days people jump to ridiculous extremes. You may prioritise the economy over your health. I do not. Your body, your choice. My body, my choice. I just hope the kids - who do not have a choice - will be ok. Its no good 'thinking air filtration' you need to say it! Missing words out is no help on a written forum. Like 'disorders' being missed out after 'autoimmune'. I don't necessarily doubt 'the body of literature about the effects of Covid infection is growing and growing ever more concerning' but we are where we are. In severe debt. Your health cannot be looked after with no taxes to run the NHS. It's basic economics
The debt we are experiencing now will be dwarfed in the future if we have a proportion of our population permanently disabled by long Covid.
Nonsense. 11.7 million employee jobs were furloughed through the scheme, at a cost of £70 billion. It is nonsense to suggest more than 11.7 million people will get long covid so bad as to totally prevent any employment.
Try treating 1 million people for 40years- average life span- benefits and medical treatments- you will easily get into the hundreds of billions. Plus the loss of their input to the economy and economic growth.
It’s a question of what has happened over the past few years versus the cost over a life time
You have no evidence
1m people are going to suffer long covid for 40 years, nobody does. Some patients, particularly older ones, less likely to be working, with co-morbidities, do experience symptoms that outlast a coronavirus infection. But such symptoms can also be psychologically generated or are thankfully disappearing.
Alarmist nonsense like yours fuels laziness, as those who just fancy a fortnight off play the system with a made up positive test, or take months off with layabout covid, not long covid.
Layabout covid has been a thing where I work, with the transgressor ringing in sick with 'long covid', putting pressure on a small team for weeks on end, then getting caught out with their social media output! We've just heard this week, he's dropping his planned appeal against dismissal for gross misconduct once it was pointed out to him there was sufficient evidence to pursue a fraud prosecution for claiming sick pay when not actually sick. Not to mention tying up the overstretched NHS obtaining 'sick notes'.
Of course, long covid is a real thing, but it is essential to distinguish it from layabout covid which is tempting for those who've enjoyed two years either in bed or on the couch on 80% pay! "You need to see the long term studies for SARS 1 then- really high morbidity rates for survivors. A lot had neurological issues. The main issue with this virus is that it effects the brain and brain tissue does not repair itself. Eg, Lewy bodies seen in Macaques infected with Covid- precursor to Parkinson’s / Alzheimer’s. Most other body organs can recover to some extend but brain injury quite often is permanentl. | |||
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"Thanks - I will look into it and anyone suffering accordingly has my sympathy and must receive maximum NHS assistance. But the human brain is also capable of lying for financial gain - so layabout covid must be tackled. " They have no reason to lie because sadly many with LC are losing their jobs ( esp in the NHS) because they are no longer capable of doing their duties. Bio markers for the disease will be available soon making diagnosis and a potential treatment easier. Please don’t call it ‘Layabout Covid’as it really stigmatises those suffering from a this disease. | |||
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"I made a clear distinction between genuine long covid and layabout covid. You are naive if you think everyone is being 100% honest on this. " Whilst I sort of agree with what you are saying it way too many people for it not To be real. Personally got covid in November a night in hospital could barely walk for a month. 5 months later still not quite back to normal but getting there. Pre covid was running half marathons. | |||
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