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Gender report
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more " Yes. As with any area where the NHS needs extra resources, we the tax payers need to pay more. Having persoanlly been supported by the NHS in the past and having compassion for others, including those I've never met, I really don't mind contributing through my taxes. | |||
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"Surely this should be part of pastoral care during education not another pull on NHS resources " It seems to have been put firmly in the health care bracket | |||
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"Surely this should be part of pastoral care during education not another pull on NHS resources " There's one of the many issues regarding the catch all NHS. It's a behemoth and lots of stuff is crow barred into it. I say whatever helps these kids best is the best home for it. I think you're into something though. More significantly is the gender services being open with the outcomes of their treatments and not hiding the outcomes in secrecy so that those following can be treated better based on evidence. | |||
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"Surely this should be part of pastoral care during education not another pull on NHS resources " Schools are absolutely skint and under huge pressure. TAs in many cases spend more time managing children with issues than they do with the bulk of the class as they used to. | |||
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"Surely this should be part of pastoral care during education not another pull on NHS resources " We're obviously thinking on the same lines. | |||
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"Surely this should be part of pastoral care during education not another pull on NHS resources It seems to have been put firmly in the health care bracket" Which IMO is wrong as it suggests there's something wrong with the child rather than the normal trajectory of identity discovery which includes gender. | |||
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"Surely this should be part of pastoral care during education not another pull on NHS resources It seems to have been put firmly in the health care bracket Which IMO is wrong as it suggests there's something wrong with the child rather than the normal trajectory of identity discovery which includes gender. "   | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more " We are to going to save money by euthanising anyone above 65 as 90% of this cohort no long contribute to the budget. Youth are the future. | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more We are to going to save money by euthanising anyone above 65 as 90% of this cohort no long contribute to the budget. Youth are the future." Bill gates has the answer. | |||
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"Surely this should be part of pastoral care during education not another pull on NHS resources " I'm the parent of a trans teen who was lucky to have had access to gender counselling services through the NHS. His gender dysphoria caused him extreme distress to the point where he was at high risk of taking his own life. There was no way his school's pastoral care team could have dealt with that alone. And whilst they did help, and had input during his social transitioning (mostly regarding the practicalities) I am forever thankful that he was able to receive help through the NHS. I know we were also fortunate that his school had experience with trans teens previously. Schools are not, and should not be left to cope with this on their own. There's a wide spectrum from those who are "unsure" (as someone previously put it) to those suffering with extreme distress from gender dysphoria. Let's not put schools who are not equipped to deal with this in the position where a child is completely failed. | |||
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"Surely this should be part of pastoral care during education not another pull on NHS resources It seems to have been put firmly in the health care bracket Which IMO is wrong as it suggests there's something wrong with the child rather than the normal trajectory of identity discovery which includes gender. " Identity discovery is one thing. The severe effects of gender dysphoria are something else entirely | |||
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"Surely this should be part of pastoral care during education not another pull on NHS resources I'm the parent of a trans teen who was lucky to have had access to gender counselling services through the NHS. His gender dysphoria caused him extreme distress to the point where he was at high risk of taking his own life. There was no way his school's pastoral care team could have dealt with that alone. And whilst they did help, and had input during his social transitioning (mostly regarding the practicalities) I am forever thankful that he was able to receive help through the NHS. I know we were also fortunate that his school had experience with trans teens previously. Schools are not, and should not be left to cope with this on their own. There's a wide spectrum from those who are "unsure" (as someone previously put it) to those suffering with extreme distress from gender dysphoria. Let's not put schools who are not equipped to deal with this in the position where a child is completely failed. " This is a really good point, there’s definitely a role for schools when it comes to trans children, or children who are confused about their gender or sexuality, but there has to be an escalation route to professionals who are better equipped to help if that is required. | |||
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"Surely this should be part of pastoral care during education not another pull on NHS resources I'm the parent of a trans teen who was lucky to have had access to gender counselling services through the NHS. His gender dysphoria caused him extreme distress to the point where he was at high risk of taking his own life. There was no way his school's pastoral care team could have dealt with that alone. And whilst they did help, and had input during his social transitioning (mostly regarding the practicalities) I am forever thankful that he was able to receive help through the NHS. I know we were also fortunate that his school had experience with trans teens previously. Schools are not, and should not be left to cope with this on their own. There's a wide spectrum from those who are "unsure" (as someone previously put it) to those suffering with extreme distress from gender dysphoria. Let's not put schools who are not equipped to deal with this in the position where a child is completely failed. " Gender dysphoria is completely different to "unsure". It is a recognised health condition and one that qualifies for transgender certification. Perhaps "unsure" is the journalistic clickbait? | |||
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"Surely this should be part of pastoral care during education not another pull on NHS resources I'm the parent of a trans teen who was lucky to have had access to gender counselling services through the NHS. His gender dysphoria caused him extreme distress to the point where he was at high risk of taking his own life. There was no way his school's pastoral care team could have dealt with that alone. And whilst they did help, and had input during his social transitioning (mostly regarding the practicalities) I am forever thankful that he was able to receive help through the NHS. I know we were also fortunate that his school had experience with trans teens previously. Schools are not, and should not be left to cope with this on their own. There's a wide spectrum from those who are "unsure" (as someone previously put it) to those suffering with extreme distress from gender dysphoria. Let's not put schools who are not equipped to deal with this in the position where a child is completely failed. Gender dysphoria is completely different to "unsure". It is a recognised health condition and one that qualifies for transgender certification. Perhaps "unsure" is the journalistic clickbait?" And my child started off unsure. Or rather, not understanding why he felt like he did. | |||
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"Surely this should be part of pastoral care during education not another pull on NHS resources I'm the parent of a trans teen who was lucky to have had access to gender counselling services through the NHS. His gender dysphoria caused him extreme distress to the point where he was at high risk of taking his own life. There was no way his school's pastoral care team could have dealt with that alone. And whilst they did help, and had input during his social transitioning (mostly regarding the practicalities) I am forever thankful that he was able to receive help through the NHS. I know we were also fortunate that his school had experience with trans teens previously. Schools are not, and should not be left to cope with this on their own. There's a wide spectrum from those who are "unsure" (as someone previously put it) to those suffering with extreme distress from gender dysphoria. Let's not put schools who are not equipped to deal with this in the position where a child is completely failed. This is a really good point, there’s definitely a role for schools when it comes to trans children, or children who are confused about their gender or sexuality, but there has to be an escalation route to professionals who are better equipped to help if that is required." Wasn't this included in the report though.?where children have been signposted to regional specialist centres that they were then going off script and not following the agreed treatment plans? And then refused to share any outcomes with the enquiry. Hence why the health and shadow health secretaries are in agreement that they must do so. | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more We are to going to save money by euthanising anyone above 65 as 90% of this cohort no long contribute to the budget. Youth are the future." 8.5 million over 65s pay tax. Just euthanise the ones that don't  | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more We are to going to save money by euthanising anyone above 65 as 90% of this cohort no long contribute to the budget. Youth are the future. 8.5 million over 65s pay tax. Just euthanise the ones that don't "That's a brilliant idea. We could burn the pensioner bodies in the furnace of a school central heating system. The kids could sing hymns while the burning took place so as not to be too cold hearted. Or.... Anyone over 25 not paying tax can be done in, nip the problem of non contribution in the bud, so to speak. I should have been a politician, would have raked the votes in.   | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more We are to going to save money by euthanising anyone above 65 as 90% of this cohort no long contribute to the budget. Youth are the future. 8.5 million over 65s pay tax. Just euthanise the ones that don't "Probably best to euthanase the stupid people and those on benefits | |||
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"Surely this should be part of pastoral care during education not another pull on NHS resources I'm the parent of a trans teen who was lucky to have had access to gender counselling services through the NHS. His gender dysphoria caused him extreme distress to the point where he was at high risk of taking his own life. There was no way his school's pastoral care team could have dealt with that alone. And whilst they did help, and had input during his social transitioning (mostly regarding the practicalities) I am forever thankful that he was able to receive help through the NHS. I know we were also fortunate that his school had experience with trans teens previously. Schools are not, and should not be left to cope with this on their own. There's a wide spectrum from those who are "unsure" (as someone previously put it) to those suffering with extreme distress from gender dysphoria. Let's not put schools who are not equipped to deal with this in the position where a child is completely failed. Gender dysphoria is completely different to "unsure". It is a recognised health condition and one that qualifies for transgender certification. Perhaps "unsure" is the journalistic clickbait? And my child started off unsure. Or rather, not understanding why he felt like he did. " Which shows earlier support is needed before escalation like Debauched stated. I'm sorry your child has suffered. | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more We are to going to save money by euthanising anyone above 65 as 90% of this cohort no long contribute to the budget. Youth are the future. 8.5 million over 65s pay tax. Just euthanise the ones that don't "And charge them for the meds  | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more We are to going to save money by euthanising anyone above 65 as 90% of this cohort no long contribute to the budget. Youth are the future. 8.5 million over 65s pay tax. Just euthanise the ones that don't
Probably best to euthanase the stupid people and those on benefits "It'd solve the housing crisis, part of the govt debt by removing this payout, stop the need for schools (think child benefit), stop the need for food banks. Start it in winter and we've got communal heat for free. Oh my  | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more We are to going to save money by euthanising anyone above 65 as 90% of this cohort no long contribute to the budget. Youth are the future. 8.5 million over 65s pay tax. Just euthanise the ones that don't
And charge them for the meds "They'd use meds? I thought they'd probably just put us all on an ice floe. Then charge the relatives an admin fee | |||
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"Surely this should be part of pastoral care during education not another pull on NHS resources It seems to have been put firmly in the health care bracket Which IMO is wrong as it suggests there's something wrong with the child rather than the normal trajectory of identity discovery which includes gender. " It doesn't suggest there's something "wrong" with the child/patient at all. That is your reading of it. There's nothing inherently "wrong" with anyone who needs to access healthcare. Would you say there is something "wrong" with those who access contraceptive healthcare, seeing as it is also healthcare? How about LGBT (and straight) people who use PREP? Or is that definition only reserved for Trans people? | |||
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"Surely this should be part of pastoral care during education not another pull on NHS resources It seems to have been put firmly in the health care bracket Which IMO is wrong as it suggests there's something wrong with the child rather than the normal trajectory of identity discovery which includes gender. It doesn't suggest there's something "wrong" with the child/patient at all. That is your reading of it. There's nothing inherently "wrong" with anyone who needs to access healthcare. Would you say there is something "wrong" with those who access contraceptive healthcare, seeing as it is also healthcare? How about LGBT (and straight) people who use PREP? Or is that definition only reserved for Trans people?" Your comparisons involve medications so are incomparable. Counselling does not have to come from the NHS. | |||
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"Surely this should be part of pastoral care during education not another pull on NHS resources It seems to have been put firmly in the health care bracket Which IMO is wrong as it suggests there's something wrong with the child rather than the normal trajectory of identity discovery which includes gender. It doesn't suggest there's something "wrong" with the child/patient at all. That is your reading of it. There's nothing inherently "wrong" with anyone who needs to access healthcare. Would you say there is something "wrong" with those who access contraceptive healthcare, seeing as it is also healthcare? How about LGBT (and straight) people who use PREP? Or is that definition only reserved for Trans people? Your comparisons involve medications so are incomparable. Counselling does not have to come from the NHS." It's not incomparable at all. Healthcare is healthcare. You've dodged the questions because you know your position is untenable when scrutinised, same as any other Transphobe who thinks we need special rules for Trans people. | |||
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"Surely this should be part of pastoral care during education not another pull on NHS resources It seems to have been put firmly in the health care bracket Which IMO is wrong as it suggests there's something wrong with the child rather than the normal trajectory of identity discovery which includes gender. It doesn't suggest there's something "wrong" with the child/patient at all. That is your reading of it. There's nothing inherently "wrong" with anyone who needs to access healthcare. Would you say there is something "wrong" with those who access contraceptive healthcare, seeing as it is also healthcare? How about LGBT (and straight) people who use PREP? Or is that definition only reserved for Trans people? Your comparisons involve medications so are incomparable. Counselling does not have to come from the NHS. It's not incomparable at all. Healthcare is healthcare. You've dodged the questions because you know your position is untenable when scrutinised, same as any other Transphobe who thinks we need special rules for Trans people." Bless ya cotton socks but I haven't given one iota of an indication that I'm a transphobe. You're making an inaccurate judgement hence showing your bias. Health splits into physical and mental. Although very much interconnected: one can exacerbate the other. Growing up in itself is NOT a healthcare issue, it's a journey during which children may need a little support, others needing a lot becoming a healthcare issue. This thread, as I see it, is about funding that support. I'm not the only one who sees the starting point not as a healthcare issue (getting prescribed medication is, for anyone - the questions were viewed as rhetorical). However, the issue does become one and then needs accessing. | |||
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"Surely this should be part of pastoral care during education not another pull on NHS resources It seems to have been put firmly in the health care bracket Which IMO is wrong as it suggests there's something wrong with the child rather than the normal trajectory of identity discovery which includes gender. It doesn't suggest there's something "wrong" with the child/patient at all. That is your reading of it. There's nothing inherently "wrong" with anyone who needs to access healthcare. Would you say there is something "wrong" with those who access contraceptive healthcare, seeing as it is also healthcare? How about LGBT (and straight) people who use PREP? Or is that definition only reserved for Trans people? Your comparisons involve medications so are incomparable. Counselling does not have to come from the NHS. It's not incomparable at all. Healthcare is healthcare. You've dodged the questions because you know your position is untenable when scrutinised, same as any other Transphobe who thinks we need special rules for Trans people. Bless ya cotton socks but I haven't given one iota of an indication that I'm a transphobe. You're making an inaccurate judgement hence showing your bias. Health splits into physical and mental. Although very much interconnected: one can exacerbate the other. Growing up in itself is NOT a healthcare issue, it's a journey during which children may need a little support, others needing a lot becoming a healthcare issue. This thread, as I see it, is about funding that support. I'm not the only one who sees the starting point not as a healthcare issue (getting prescribed medication is, for anyone - the questions were viewed as rhetorical). However, the issue does become one and then needs accessing." And then needs to access healthcare. | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more " Children shouldn't even be making any decision on their gender identity as they are children, it's ludicrous that they were even allowed in the first place. | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more Children shouldn't even be making any decision on their gender identity as they are children, it's ludicrous that they were even allowed in the first place. " When did you know you were a man, or woman, boy or girl? Mr DD | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more Children shouldn't even be making any decision on their gender identity as they are children, it's ludicrous that they were even allowed in the first place. " To be honest I can't help thinking that. When I was at school people wanted to be a fireman or a footballer. Most had changed their mind by the time they grew up, I know it's a far cry from gender but children are children, its illegal for them to have sex ffs | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more Children shouldn't even be making any decision on their gender identity as they are children, it's ludicrous that they were even allowed in the first place. When did you know you were a man, or woman, boy or girl? Mr DD" When does anyone know this? | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more Children shouldn't even be making any decision on their gender identity as they are children, it's ludicrous that they were even allowed in the first place. When did you know you were a man, or woman, boy or girl? Mr DD When does anyone know this? " I don’t know, which is rather the point. | |||
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" When does anyone know this? I don’t know, which is rather the point." Mine too | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more Children shouldn't even be making any decision on their gender identity as they are children, it's ludicrous that they were even allowed in the first place. To be honest I can't help thinking that. When I was at school people wanted to be a fireman or a footballer. Most had changed their mind by the time they grew up, I know it's a far cry from gender but children are children, its illegal for them to have sex ffs" What has sex got to do with this? | |||
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"Does it need to be NHS for the "unsure". Counselling through schools. It seems more a socialisation issue than health at this stage. Discovering one's own identity is more than a childhood journey. It continues into adulthood. " | |||
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"Thankyou to the 'gentleman' who is obviously following this thread and decided to private message me with a seriously uneducated and totally unsympathetic viewpoint rather than discus it here instead. Then blocked me after the rude message. Very grown up and intelligent." I just want to point out i am not that 'Gentleman' and would say, he is not a gentleman at all. | |||
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"What has sex got to do with this?" Interesting point/question because if you take away the issue of sex, why is it that gender identity is an issue? | |||
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"What has sex got to do with this? Interesting point/question because if you take away the issue of sex, why is it that gender identity is an issue? " Sharing safe spaces with other women, in sports, beating other women who have not got the physical advantages of being born a different gender. I'm sure there are others. | |||
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"What has sex got to do with this? Interesting point/question because if you take away the issue of sex, why is it that gender identity is an issue? Sharing safe spaces with other women, in sports, beating other women who have not got the physical advantages of being born a different gender. I'm sure there are others. " Wouldn't have thought many of those would be motivations for a child feeling they ought to be a different gender. | |||
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"What has sex got to do with this? Interesting point/question because if you take away the issue of sex, why is it that gender identity is an issue? Sharing safe spaces with other women, in sports, beating other women who have not got the physical advantages of being born a different gender. I'm sure there are others. Wouldn't have thought many of those would be motivations for a child feeling they ought to be a different gender." I think the problem for people who aren’t trans, and who maybe lack a little empathy, is that they cannot conceive of how it must feel, so they latch onto the arguments against allowing people to be themselves. | |||
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"What has sex got to do with this? Interesting point/question because if you take away the issue of sex, why is it that gender identity is an issue? Sharing safe spaces with other women, in sports, beating other women who have not got the physical advantages of being born a different gender. I'm sure there are others. Wouldn't have thought many of those would be motivations for a child feeling they ought to be a different gender." I'm not sure what motivates a child feeling they have gender issues but I'd have thought sex would be only one of many factors. But am clearly no expert. | |||
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"Is a trans woman a woman in a changing room with a Muslim woman who doesn't wish to show her hair to a man? Should the Muslim woman be forced into an closed off room? " I bet that's a sentence you weren't expecting to write when you woke up this morning | |||
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"I'm not sure what motivates a child feeling they have gender issues but I'd have thought sex would be only one of many factors. But am clearly no expert. " Me neither but it's certainly been a regularly discussed topic with our kids growing up. The masculinity/femininity debate seems important (and lacking). | |||
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"Is a trans woman a woman in a changing room with a Muslim woman who doesn't wish to show her hair to a man? Should the Muslim woman be forced into an closed off room? I bet that's a sentence you weren't expecting to write when you woke up this morning " It's a questions I've asked a few people who believe sex is changeable. No ones ever given me a reasonable answer | |||
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"I'm not sure what motivates a child feeling they have gender issues but I'd have thought sex would be only one of many factors. But am clearly no expert. Me neither but it's certainly been a regularly discussed topic with our kids growing up. The masculinity/femininity debate seems important (and lacking)." It's important for some... I'm not convinced it's important for all despite the best efforts of some to force it to be so. When you grew up was it important for you? Certainly wasn't for me. | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more Children shouldn't even be making any decision on their gender identity as they are children, it's ludicrous that they were even allowed in the first place. To be honest I can't help thinking that. When I was at school people wanted to be a fireman or a footballer. Most had changed their mind by the time they grew up, I know it's a far cry from gender but children are children, its illegal for them to have sex ffs What has sex got to do with this?" Quite a lot in my opinion  | |||
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"What has sex got to do with this? Interesting point/question because if you take away the issue of sex, why is it that gender identity is an issue? Sharing safe spaces with other women, in sports, beating other women who have not got the physical advantages of being born a different gender. I'm sure there are others. " What about FTM?  | |||
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"What has sex got to do with this? Interesting point/question because if you take away the issue of sex, why is it that gender identity is an issue? Sharing safe spaces with other women, in sports, beating other women who have not got the physical advantages of being born a different gender. I'm sure there are others. What about FTM? "It is a non issue societally for FTM because the concerns are about the historic impact of testosterone on MTF. Women who transition to male have never had that original testosterone so their bodies are invariably smaller and not as strong as men. For example in sport I don’t believe there are that many (any?) incidents of FTM athletes out competing men in the same way that MTF athletes have in female competition. | |||
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"What has sex got to do with this? Interesting point/question because if you take away the issue of sex, why is it that gender identity is an issue? Sharing safe spaces with other women, in sports, beating other women who have not got the physical advantages of being born a different gender. I'm sure there are others. Wouldn't have thought many of those would be motivations for a child feeling they ought to be a different gender. I'm not sure what motivates a child feeling they have gender issues but I'd have thought sex would be only one of many factors. But am clearly no expert. " I don't think motivation is the correct word. I can only speak from personal experience; my son initially experienced a disconnect that eventually became acute distress. The body he saw in the mirror didn't fit with what his brain was telling him (these are his words although obviously it's not just that simple). The more his female body developed, and he became more obviously female, the more severe his distress became. Having breasts was the major trigger which caused his mental health to spiral. At no point in any of the very frank conversations he and I had, nor during the time he was accessing gender services, was the physical act of sex ever a driver. | |||
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"What has sex got to do with this? Interesting point/question because if you take away the issue of sex, why is it that gender identity is an issue? Sharing safe spaces with other women, in sports, beating other women who have not got the physical advantages of being born a different gender. I'm sure there are others. What about FTM?
It is a non issue societally for FTM because the concerns are about the historic impact of testosterone on MTF. Women who transition to male have never had that original testosterone so their bodies are invariably smaller and not as strong as men. For example in sport I don’t believe there are that many (any?) incidents of FTM athletes out competing men in the same way that MTF athletes have in female competition."My point was, gender identity isn't just MTF | |||
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"What has sex got to do with this? Interesting point/question because if you take away the issue of sex, why is it that gender identity is an issue? " Hold on. The poster was stating sexual intercourse, not biological sex. | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more Children shouldn't even be making any decision on their gender identity as they are children, it's ludicrous that they were even allowed in the first place. To be honest I can't help thinking that. When I was at school people wanted to be a fireman or a footballer. Most had changed their mind by the time they grew up, I know it's a far cry from gender but children are children, its illegal for them to have sex ffs What has sex got to do with this? Quite a lot in my opinion "Please elaborate | |||
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"I'm not sure what motivates a child feeling they have gender issues but I'd have thought sex would be only one of many factors. But am clearly no expert. Me neither but it's certainly been a regularly discussed topic with our kids growing up. The masculinity/femininity debate seems important (and lacking). It's important for some... I'm not convinced it's important for all despite the best efforts of some to force it to be so. When you grew up was it important for you? Certainly wasn't for me. " I grew up in the era of jokes about wooly woofters, men never crying and only girls wore pink. I don't think it was a great time to be having that conversation. | |||
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"What has sex got to do with this? Interesting point/question because if you take away the issue of sex, why is it that gender identity is an issue? Hold on. The poster was stating sexual intercourse, not biological sex." So was I. | |||
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"What has sex got to do with this? Interesting point/question because if you take away the issue of sex, why is it that gender identity is an issue? Hold on. The poster was stating sexual intercourse, not biological sex. So was I." Gender and biological sex have nothing to do with sexual orientation. Identity and all it encompasses is how you see yourself and how others see you. If these don't marry up, there is a crisis of identity. If you see yourself as female but your body is male, you know others will see you as male - a crisis. I'm putting it simply, and it is simple. | |||
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"What has sex got to do with this? Interesting point/question because if you take away the issue of sex, why is it that gender identity is an issue? Hold on. The poster was stating sexual intercourse, not biological sex. So was I. Gender and biological sex have nothing to do with sexual orientation. Identity and all it encompasses is how you see yourself and how others see you. If these don't marry up, there is a crisis of identity. If you see yourself as female but your body is male, you know others will see you as male - a crisis. I'm putting it simply, and it is simple." But what does seeing yourself as female mean? | |||
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"What has sex got to do with this? Interesting point/question because if you take away the issue of sex, why is it that gender identity is an issue? Hold on. The poster was stating sexual intercourse, not biological sex. So was I. Gender and biological sex have nothing to do with sexual orientation. Identity and all it encompasses is how you see yourself and how others see you. If these don't marry up, there is a crisis of identity. If you see yourself as female but your body is male, you know others will see you as male - a crisis. I'm putting it simply, and it is simple. But what does seeing yourself as female mean?" I tried to explain further up how my trans son felt, however it's complex and nuanced | |||
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"What has sex got to do with this? Interesting point/question because if you take away the issue of sex, why is it that gender identity is an issue? Hold on. The poster was stating sexual intercourse, not biological sex. So was I. Gender and biological sex have nothing to do with sexual orientation. Identity and all it encompasses is how you see yourself and how others see you. If these don't marry up, there is a crisis of identity. If you see yourself as female but your body is male, you know others will see you as male - a crisis. I'm putting it simply, and it is simple." Sorry, it is NOT simple. | |||
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"What has sex got to do with this? Interesting point/question because if you take away the issue of sex, why is it that gender identity is an issue? Hold on. The poster was stating sexual intercourse, not biological sex. So was I. Gender and biological sex have nothing to do with sexual orientation. Identity and all it encompasses is how you see yourself and how others see you. If these don't marry up, there is a crisis of identity. If you see yourself as female but your body is male, you know others will see you as male - a crisis. I'm putting it simply, and it is simple. But what does seeing yourself as female mean?" What do you think it means? | |||
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"What has sex got to do with this? Interesting point/question because if you take away the issue of sex, why is it that gender identity is an issue? Hold on. The poster was stating sexual intercourse, not biological sex. So was I. Gender and biological sex have nothing to do with sexual orientation. Identity and all it encompasses is how you see yourself and how others see you. If these don't marry up, there is a crisis of identity. If you see yourself as female but your body is male, you know others will see you as male - a crisis. I'm putting it simply, and it is simple. But what does seeing yourself as female mean? What do you think it means?" What do you think I think it means? 
I think there are serious questions relating to: "Identity and all it encompasses is how you see yourself and how others see you."
It seems unlikely there can ever be agreement on what are masculine or feminine traits. Least of all during childhood. | |||
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"What has sex got to do with this? Interesting point/question because if you take away the issue of sex, why is it that gender identity is an issue? Hold on. The poster was stating sexual intercourse, not biological sex. So was I. Gender and biological sex have nothing to do with sexual orientation. Identity and all it encompasses is how you see yourself and how others see you. If these don't marry up, there is a crisis of identity. If you see yourself as female but your body is male, you know others will see you as male - a crisis. I'm putting it simply, and it is simple. But what does seeing yourself as female mean? What do you think it means? What do you think I think it means?
I think there are serious questions relating to: "Identity and all it encompasses is how you see yourself and how others see you."
It seems unlikely there can ever be agreement on what are masculine or feminine traits. Least of all during childhood."Do you really think that's true for everyone? Lots of people.. Well all that I have known actually found it much much simpler than that... And sorry to say it but if you had a penis it was a prettygood clue you'd grow up to be a man. Not suggesting everyone was or is like that as the contributor above has experience of something very different to that with her child. | |||
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"Do you really think that's true for everyone? Lots of people.. Well all that I have known actually found it much much simpler than that... And sorry to say it but if you had a penis it was a prettygood clue you'd grow up to be a man. Not suggesting everyone was or is like that as the contributor above has experience of something very different to that with her child. " A penis seems a strong clue. But I guess that addresses some of the other points as to whether a person looks in a mirror and feels they're seeing the wrong thing. I'm yet to understand why that would be, particularly in childhood. | |||
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"Do you really think that's true for everyone? Lots of people.. Well all that I have known actually found it much much simpler than that... And sorry to say it but if you had a penis it was a prettygood clue you'd grow up to be a man. Not suggesting everyone was or is like that as the contributor above has experience of something very different to that with her child. A penis seems a strong clue. But I guess that addresses some of the other points as to whether a person looks in a mirror and feels they're seeing the wrong thing. I'm yet to understand why that would be, particularly in childhood." I guess it is probably difficult to understand unless you've lived it and are experiencing it. I only experience it second hand and it's harrowing to see your child in such distress. So I give him love and support without judgement, and with an open mind and heart. | |||
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"Do you really think that's true for everyone? Lots of people.. Well all that I have known actually found it much much simpler than that... And sorry to say it but if you had a penis it was a prettygood clue you'd grow up to be a man. Not suggesting everyone was or is like that as the contributor above has experience of something very different to that with her child. A penis seems a strong clue. But I guess that addresses some of the other points as to whether a person looks in a mirror and feels they're seeing the wrong thing. I'm yet to understand why that would be, particularly in childhood. I guess it is probably difficult to understand unless you've lived it and are experiencing it. I only experience it second hand and it's harrowing to see your child in such distress. So I give him love and support without judgement, and with an open mind and heart. " Hopefully he's in a better place emotionally now amd and finding some happiness. It's brutal seeing your kids struggle. Wishing you both health and happiness. | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more Children shouldn't even be making any decision on their gender identity as they are children, it's ludicrous that they were even allowed in the first place. When did you know you were a man, or woman, boy or girl? Mr DD" Well that doesn't warrant an answer! | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more Children shouldn't even be making any decision on their gender identity as they are children, it's ludicrous that they were even allowed in the first place. When did you know you were a man, or woman, boy or girl? Mr DD Well that doesn't warrant an answer! "Why not? Did it take until you were 25, or did you know earlier? | |||
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"The autism link that was mentioned has been glaringly obvious for a while. 3 to 6 times more likely according to the report. Throw in unsupervised access to the internet and social media and its no wonder so many isolated kids get sucked into thinking this nonsense is real." Medical and psychological bodies around the world recognise the valid and normal existence of trans people. It's only those whose understanding of sex and gender hasn't progressed past primary school level that think it's "nonsense". | |||
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"It’s interesting* to see that Cass rejected the findings of 48 studies into the matter but used 2 that supported her conclusions. *concerning" Isn't that pretty standard and basic? The way all arguments work? Pick the evidence that backs your propositions. That aside What is known of the rigour and accuracy and leanings of the 48 reports? I'm sure people who disagree with cass conclusions will now come out and point out why it's a bad report. And those that agree will say its good. Wasn't one of the key points however that outcomes are being hidden and that proper research is needed that so far has not been able to take place because of the toxicity of the debate and the fear that engenders in the medical world who would be needed to take part in such research? | |||
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"Oh my. I never cease to be amazed at the total lack of understanding of this issue, and the stupidity of the debate. One side argues gender = genitals The other argues gender = identity Speaking as someone confirmed (not diagnosed) as born with transsexism, and subsequently diagnosed as suffering from Gender Dysphoria (no the two are not the same)... please let me just say this. Gender is not an identity. It is not chosen. Gender is not a set of social norms ie trousers = masculine, skirts = feminine. So for those referring to gender as a preferred identity based upon a set of chosen social gender norms... you're confusing gender expression for gender. Gender expression is fluid. Gender is fixed. If gender was mutable, transsex people would not exist. Gender is the psychological aspect of the sexed brain. For those inferring gender = genital / chromosome sex. No. Gender refers to the psychological aspect of the sexed brain. Further, the sex of the brain is not determined by chromosomes, nor is genital sex. Females are born every year with XY chromosomes. If you claim sex is determined by chromosomes, then you are a misogynistic idiot who denies the born humanity of a person born female, by insisting they are male as they have XY chromosomes, and thus simply because of a genetic issue (Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome) over which she has zero control So... trans. What is it? Well it's not a choice. It is not a preference for frilly knickers over boxer shorts as Stonewall and the political LGBTQIPA+ Plc lobby insist. To paraphrase Stonewall... "SOME Trans people are gay. Get over it" Nor is it a mental illness as the genitalia obsessed binary sexist theologians insist. Trans is a born biological reality. Some trans people are able to exist in their body. Many are not. Those suffer a psychological condition called Gender Dysphoria. That is treated with specialist counselling, and may include endocrine treatments and surgery, as decided on a case-by-case needs only basis. Nobody can just rock up to a GP and demand to be given tits and a fanny because they've suddenly decided they prefer she/her pronouns. As for the issue of increased funding. I do not accept it is actually necessary, because I do not accept that there has been a genuine increase in the incidence of people being born trans. Instead, what I believe has occured, is that the gay rights political lobby, who spent 30 years (1960s- 1990s) labelling transsex women as mentally ill castrated men and transmen as mentally ill lesbians, redefined transsexism in terms of their image centered identity ideology, labelled everybody "transgender", and have now so confused everybody with their political ideological BS, that a goth teen boy experimenting with eyeliner and lace clothing is now convinced he's "questioning" his gender. Let me be very clear. I NEVER questioned my gender. Like everybody else, I knew, I was 100% certain, what my gender was. But...being born transsex, that meant nobody else would accept me. Instead I was subjected to conversion therapy at the hands of my parents, under the guidance and encouragement of the state healthcare system. It was state sanctioned psychological, emotional and physical abuse. Abuse which sadly continues to this day at the hands of both the LGBT and anti-LGBT lobby So. No we shouldn't increase funding. What we should do is clearly state that transsexism is a recognised born humanity and that transsex people can suffer a specific condition called Gender Dysphoria. Those people should be given all the help they need. We should stop defining gender in terms of preferences for sets of gender expressions, or both sets of gender expressions (none-binary / gender fluid). We should stop letting a political lobby focused upon clasifying people by sexuality, from falsely claiming transsex kids and teens are part of LGBTQIPA+ "culture". It is the sickening sexualisation of minors. Stop allowing their redefinition of medical reality to suit their political ideology. AND we should stop allowing parents, teachers, the church, or any other fecking adult, from forcing their genitalia obsessed view of a child's born humanity upon that child. Let children be children. If they want to wear a dress and have a penis... and as an adult you object... it is YOU not they that needs to fecking grow up. Give them a dress. IF they struggle psychologically with a body that makes no sense to them... get them psychological care. NOT CONVERSION THERAPY. And IF, when puberty starts, the changes to their body cause them severe distress, for example to the point they start self harming or considering suicide... give them puberty blockers. THEY SAVE LIVES. And IF after all that, they get to the age of 16 and decide for themselves thar they need surgery to correct what is clearly to them a deformed body... GIVE THEM HORMONES AND SURGERY. IT SAVES LIVES. And for any fool who may wish to tell me that what they, or I, need is psychological help for some mental illness... The rates of suicide and mental illness among transsex people is higher. Its true. BUT... this mental illness is not the cause of Gender Dysphoria. It is a symptom. The cause of this mental illness is the same vitriolic hatred thrown at transsex people. The denial and rejection of our born biological reality. Finally... as its topical... if transsex females are "men" as Rowling et al claim, and therefore should not be allowed in female only spaces. Why is it Rowling et all are not upset about male cleaners in female toilets? Why is it Rowling et all only consider people who've had their unwanted penis surgically removed and been chemically castrated to be a "threat to women and girls", yet fully functional straight male cleaners apparently pose no threat whatsoever? Could it be in reality... its just transmisogyny from a bunch of binary sexist bigots, spreading fear and hate about a minority community, that has resulted in numerous assaults, one attempted murder of a transgirl teen, and one successful murder of a transgirl teen? Just a thought " Thank you Suzy. x | |||
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"It’s interesting* to see that Cass rejected the findings of 48 studies into the matter but used 2 that supported her conclusions. *concerning Isn't that pretty standard and basic? The way all arguments work? Pick the evidence that backs your propositions. That aside What is known of the rigour and accuracy and leanings of the 48 reports? I'm sure people who disagree with cass conclusions will now come out and point out why it's a bad report. And those that agree will say its good. Wasn't one of the key points however that outcomes are being hidden and that proper research is needed that so far has not been able to take place because of the toxicity of the debate and the fear that engenders in the medical world who would be needed to take part in such research? " It’s not meant to be an argument though, it was a review. When it comes to medicine you don’t decide what is wrong with a patient then look for evidence to support your assertion, you look at what the evidence is and that leads you to a diagnosis. One of the recommendations the report makes is that 18-25 year olds should be treated the same as 17 year olds. This isn’t s because of belief that brain development is not complete until the age of 25. This is based on a flawed study that did not test anyone over the age of 25, the reality is that brain development is never complete, our brains develop and change on a daily basis. The review does have some good points but it is also deeply flawed. Using people like Patrick Hunter, member of the anti-trans Catholic medical Association, who worked on the politically motivated review of trans care in Florida (which the Cass report closely mirrors) as an expert does not help the case for impartiality. | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more Children shouldn't even be making any decision on their gender identity as they are children, it's ludicrous that they were even allowed in the first place. When did you know you were a man, or woman, boy or girl? Mr DD Well that doesn't warrant an answer!
Why not? Did it take until you were 25, or did you know earlier?"There are only 2 sexes so i always knew . Anything is a lifestyle choice that some adults make. | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more Children shouldn't even be making any decision on their gender identity as they are children, it's ludicrous that they were even allowed in the first place. When did you know you were a man, or woman, boy or girl? Mr DD Well that doesn't warrant an answer!
Why not? Did it take until you were 25, or did you know earlier?
There are only 2 sexes so i always knew . Anything is a lifestyle choice that some adults make.
"So you knew from birth that you were a boy/girl, before the concept of sex and gender was known to you, what you were and weren’t, yet you think other people don’t? | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more Children shouldn't even be making any decision on their gender identity as they are children, it's ludicrous that they were even allowed in the first place. When did you know you were a man, or woman, boy or girl? Mr DD Well that doesn't warrant an answer!
Why not? Did it take until you were 25, or did you know earlier?
There are only 2 sexes so i always knew . Anything is a lifestyle choice that some adults make.
So you knew from birth that you were a boy/girl, before the concept of sex and gender was known to you, what you were and weren’t, yet you think other people don’t?"Its all left wing rubbish. There are 2 sexes and then there are lifestyle choices have a nice day | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more Children shouldn't even be making any decision on their gender identity as they are children, it's ludicrous that they were even allowed in the first place. When did you know you were a man, or woman, boy or girl? Mr DD Well that doesn't warrant an answer!
Why not? Did it take until you were 25, or did you know earlier?
There are only 2 sexes so i always knew . Anything is a lifestyle choice that some adults make.
So you knew from birth that you were a boy/girl, before the concept of sex and gender was known to you, what you were and weren’t, yet you think other people don’t?
It’s all left wing rubbish. There are 2 sexes and then there are lifestyle choices have a nice day "Watch you don’t trip running away from a discussion x | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more Children shouldn't even be making any decision on their gender identity as they are children, it's ludicrous that they were even allowed in the first place. When did you know you were a man, or woman, boy or girl? Mr DD Well that doesn't warrant an answer!
Why not? Did it take until you were 25, or did you know earlier?
There are only 2 sexes so i always knew . Anything is a lifestyle choice that some adults make.
So you knew from birth that you were a boy/girl, before the concept of sex and gender was known to you, what you were and weren’t, yet you think other people don’t?
It’s all left wing rubbish. There are 2 sexes and then there are lifestyle choices have a nice day
Watch you don’t trip running away from a discussion x"There isn't a discussion though. I really can't be bothered listening to nonsensical rubbish. The only discussion that is needed is the enormous mental health impacts all this is having on people. There is nothing wrong with cross dressing and being gay / bi whatever. Just be you but embrace your biological gender without impacting others. Mrs | |||
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"As for the issue of increased funding. I do not accept it is actually necessary, because I do not accept that there has been a genuine increase in the incidence of people being born trans. Instead, what I believe has occured, is that the gay rights political lobby, who spent 30 years (1960s- 1990s) labelling transsex women as mentally ill castrated men and transmen as mentally ill lesbians, redefined transsexism in terms of their image centered identity ideology, labelled everybody "transgender", and have now so confused everybody with their political ideological BS, that a goth teen boy experimenting with eyeliner and lace clothing is now convinced he's "questioning" his gender. " I've wondered similar. Likewise with a great deal of other 'conditions' (for want of a better word) which seem more prevalent in recent times - autism, ADHD, dyslexia et al. It must be frustrating for those who struggle to then find their issue diluted and confused by those who self diagnose. Perhaps this is also why the debates invariably become toxic. | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more Children shouldn't even be making any decision on their gender identity as they are children, it's ludicrous that they were even allowed in the first place. When did you know you were a man, or woman, boy or girl? Mr DD Well that doesn't warrant an answer!
Why not? Did it take until you were 25, or did you know earlier?
There are only 2 sexes so i always knew . Anything is a lifestyle choice that some adults make.
So you knew from birth that you were a boy/girl, before the concept of sex and gender was known to you, what you were and weren’t, yet you think other people don’t?
It’s all left wing rubbish. There are 2 sexes and then there are lifestyle choices have a nice day
Watch you don’t trip running away from a discussion x
There isn't a discussion though. I really can't be bothered listening to nonsensical rubbish. The only discussion that is needed is the enormous mental health impacts all this is having on people. There is nothing wrong with cross dressing and being gay / bi whatever. Just be you but embrace your biological gender without impacting others.
Mrs "What about the horrendous effect it has on the mental health of people who aren’t allowed to transition? | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more Children shouldn't even be making any decision on their gender identity as they are children, it's ludicrous that they were even allowed in the first place. When did you know you were a man, or woman, boy or girl? Mr DD Well that doesn't warrant an answer!
Why not? Did it take until you were 25, or did you know earlier?
There are only 2 sexes so i always knew . Anything is a lifestyle choice that some adults make.
So you knew from birth that you were a boy/girl, before the concept of sex and gender was known to you, what you were and weren’t, yet you think other people don’t?
It’s all left wing rubbish. There are 2 sexes and then there are lifestyle choices have a nice day
Watch you don’t trip running away from a discussion x
There isn't a discussion though. I really can't be bothered listening to nonsensical rubbish. The only discussion that is needed is the enormous mental health impacts all this is having on people. There is nothing wrong with cross dressing and being gay / bi whatever. Just be you but embrace your biological gender without impacting others.
Mrs "Also, gender isn’t biological. | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more Children shouldn't even be making any decision on their gender identity as they are children, it's ludicrous that they were even allowed in the first place. When did you know you were a man, or woman, boy or girl? Mr DD Well that doesn't warrant an answer!
Why not? Did it take until you were 25, or did you know earlier?
There are only 2 sexes so i always knew . Anything is a lifestyle choice that some adults make.
So you knew from birth that you were a boy/girl, before the concept of sex and gender was known to you, what you were and weren’t, yet you think other people don’t?
It’s all left wing rubbish. There are 2 sexes and then there are lifestyle choices have a nice day
Watch you don’t trip running away from a discussion x
There isn't a discussion though. I really can't be bothered listening to nonsensical rubbish. The only discussion that is needed is the enormous mental health impacts all this is having on people. There is nothing wrong with cross dressing and being gay / bi whatever. Just be you but embrace your biological gender without impacting others.
Mrs "That's akin to telling someone with clinical depression to just cheer up | |||
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"It’s interesting* to see that Cass rejected the findings of 48 studies into the matter but used 2 that supported her conclusions. *concerning Isn't that pretty standard and basic? The way all arguments work? Pick the evidence that backs your propositions. That aside What is known of the rigour and accuracy and leanings of the 48 reports? I'm sure people who disagree with cass conclusions will now come out and point out why it's a bad report. And those that agree will say its good. Wasn't one of the key points however that outcomes are being hidden and that proper research is needed that so far has not been able to take place because of the toxicity of the debate and the fear that engenders in the medical world who would be needed to take part in such research? It’s not meant to be an argument though, it was a review. When it comes to medicine you don’t decide what is wrong with a patient then look for evidence to support your assertion, you look at what the evidence is and that leads you to a diagnosis. One of the recommendations the report makes is that 18-25 year olds should be treated the same as 17 year olds. This isn’t s because of belief that brain development is not complete until the age of 25. This is based on a flawed study that did not test anyone over the age of 25, the reality is that brain development is never complete, our brains develop and change on a daily basis. The review does have some good points but it is also deeply flawed. Using people like Patrick Hunter, member of the anti-trans Catholic medical Association, who worked on the politically motivated review of trans care in Florida (which the Cass report closely mirrors) as an expert does not help the case for impartiality. " Exactly... And the clinics are not sharing the evidence of the patients they have treated. | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more Children shouldn't even be making any decision on their gender identity as they are children, it's ludicrous that they were even allowed in the first place. When did you know you were a man, or woman, boy or girl? Mr DD Well that doesn't warrant an answer!
Why not? Did it take until you were 25, or did you know earlier?
There are only 2 sexes so i always knew . Anything is a lifestyle choice that some adults make.
So you knew from birth that you were a boy/girl, before the concept of sex and gender was known to you, what you were and weren’t, yet you think other people don’t?
It’s all left wing rubbish. There are 2 sexes and then there are lifestyle choices have a nice day
Watch you don’t trip running away from a discussion x
There isn't a discussion though. I really can't be bothered listening to nonsensical rubbish. The only discussion that is needed is the enormous mental health impacts all this is having on people. There is nothing wrong with cross dressing and being gay / bi whatever. Just be you but embrace your biological gender without impacting others.
Mrs "Nah you're wrong. | |||
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"It’s interesting* to see that Cass rejected the findings of 48 studies into the matter but used 2 that supported her conclusions. *concerning Isn't that pretty standard and basic? The way all arguments work? Pick the evidence that backs your propositions. That aside What is known of the rigour and accuracy and leanings of the 48 reports? I'm sure people who disagree with cass conclusions will now come out and point out why it's a bad report. And those that agree will say its good. Wasn't one of the key points however that outcomes are being hidden and that proper research is needed that so far has not been able to take place because of the toxicity of the debate and the fear that engenders in the medical world who would be needed to take part in such research? It’s not meant to be an argument though, it was a review. When it comes to medicine you don’t decide what is wrong with a patient then look for evidence to support your assertion, you look at what the evidence is and that leads you to a diagnosis. One of the recommendations the report makes is that 18-25 year olds should be treated the same as 17 year olds. This isn’t s because of belief that brain development is not complete until the age of 25. This is based on a flawed study that did not test anyone over the age of 25, the reality is that brain development is never complete, our brains develop and change on a daily basis. The review does have some good points but it is also deeply flawed. Using people like Patrick Hunter, member of the anti-trans Catholic medical Association, who worked on the politically motivated review of trans care in Florida (which the Cass report closely mirrors) as an expert does not help the case for impartiality. Exactly... And the clinics are not sharing the evidence of the patients they have treated. " Like I said, it has some good points but it loses any credibility because it cherry picked studies and took advice from transphobes. It now looks like it has an ideological bias and is pretty much useless because of it. | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Children are not sure of anything. That’s called being a child. If you can’t trust a child to decide a healthy dinner for each night of the week and prepare and cook it, they sure as shit can’t be trusted with life altering decisions based on which algorithm they followed on TikTok. I am 100% certain that most of the kids questioning it are doing it because they’re influenced by what’s on their phone’s social media feeds. The real, genuine tiny fraction left may need some support and help, but the majority are just doing what kids do… not knowing what they want to be in any sense of the word." What about the trans kids who were trans before social media? What are you 100% certain they were influenced by, The Beano? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Children are not sure of anything. That’s called being a child. If you can’t trust a child to decide a healthy dinner for each night of the week and prepare and cook it, they sure as shit can’t be trusted with life altering decisions based on which algorithm they followed on TikTok. I am 100% certain that most of the kids questioning it are doing it because they’re influenced by what’s on their phone’s social media feeds. The real, genuine tiny fraction left may need some support and help, but the majority are just doing what kids do… not knowing what they want to be in any sense of the word. What about the trans kids who were trans before social media? What are you 100% certain they were influenced by, The Beano?" There were a hell of a lot less because they were genuinely trans and not just jumping on trends. Sorry, it’s an absolute fact. As kids, our minds are manipulated by the smallest of things. Everyone with a brain cell and has been a child (everyone) knows this. That’s why you wanted certain things as a child, because they were pushed on you via TV advertising. That’s why millions of little kids wanted to be Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles back in the 80’s. But now they’re not watching TV. They’re watching Dylan Mulvaney get rich and famous off of his tacky and obvious infringement of real trans people’s experiences. That’s the new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Except once you’ve transitioned you can’t so easily take off the mask. That’s why it’s dangerous to support children’s desires like this. If they’re genuinely trans, they’ll still be trans when they’re 18 and can do whatever the hell they want with the full strength of the law behind them. But as children, they should just be out playing with friends, not sitting around wondering what gender to be today. I have some trans friends who are legitimately and very clearly living their best life because they transitioned. But they were adults when they made that actual change. They had weighed up their real feelings about it with at least a somewhat developed brain. You know the brain doesn’t stop developing until around the age of 25, right? So all the way up to that, your personality hasn’t fully and absolutely locked in. There’s many things you can’t know for sure. And there’s way too many people - especially in the USA - blathering on about how puberty blockers should be absolutely given to all children who request it. WHAT KID KNOWS WHAT A PUBERTY BLOCKER IS??? lol. I’ll tell you… the ones who sit on TikTok all day. So, your Beano comment wasn’t clearly thought through, but I hope I’ve managed to shine a light on the subject a little better with the use of at least some comparative points. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more Children shouldn't even be making any decision on their gender identity as they are children, it's ludicrous that they were even allowed in the first place. When did you know you were a man, or woman, boy or girl? Mr DD Well that doesn't warrant an answer!
Why not? Did it take until you were 25, or did you know earlier?
There are only 2 sexes so i always knew . Anything is a lifestyle choice that some adults make.
So you knew from birth that you were a boy/girl, before the concept of sex and gender was known to you, what you were and weren’t, yet you think other people don’t?
It’s all left wing rubbish. There are 2 sexes and then there are lifestyle choices have a nice day
Watch you don’t trip running away from a discussion x
There isn't a discussion though. I really can't be bothered listening to nonsensical rubbish. The only discussion that is needed is the enormous mental health impacts all this is having on people. There is nothing wrong with cross dressing and being gay / bi whatever. Just be you but embrace your biological gender without impacting others.
Mrs
What about the horrendous effect it has on the mental health of people who aren’t allowed to transition?"Who isn't allowed to transition ? Children ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Children are not sure of anything. That’s called being a child. If you can’t trust a child to decide a healthy dinner for each night of the week and prepare and cook it, they sure as shit can’t be trusted with life altering decisions based on which algorithm they followed on TikTok. I am 100% certain that most of the kids questioning it are doing it because they’re influenced by what’s on their phone’s social media feeds. The real, genuine tiny fraction left may need some support and help, but the majority are just doing what kids do… not knowing what they want to be in any sense of the word. What about the trans kids who were trans before social media? What are you 100% certain they were influenced by, The Beano? There were a hell of a lot less because they were genuinely trans and not just jumping on trends. Sorry, it’s an absolute fact. As kids, our minds are manipulated by the smallest of things. Everyone with a brain cell and has been a child (everyone) knows this. That’s why you wanted certain things as a child, because they were pushed on you via TV advertising. That’s why millions of little kids wanted to be Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles back in the 80’s. But now they’re not watching TV. They’re watching Dylan Mulvaney get rich and famous off of his tacky and obvious infringement of real trans people’s experiences. That’s the new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Except once you’ve transitioned you can’t so easily take off the mask. That’s why it’s dangerous to support children’s desires like this. If they’re genuinely trans, they’ll still be trans when they’re 18 and can do whatever the hell they want with the full strength of the law behind them. But as children, they should just be out playing with friends, not sitting around wondering what gender to be today. I have some trans friends who are legitimately and very clearly living their best life because they transitioned. But they were adults when they made that actual change. They had weighed up their real feelings about it with at least a somewhat developed brain. You know the brain doesn’t stop developing until around the age of 25, right? So all the way up to that, your personality hasn’t fully and absolutely locked in. There’s many things you can’t know for sure. And there’s way too many people - especially in the USA - blathering on about how puberty blockers should be absolutely given to all children who request it. WHAT KID KNOWS WHAT A PUBERTY BLOCKER IS??? lol. I’ll tell you… the ones who sit on TikTok all day. So, your Beano comment wasn’t clearly thought through, but I hope I’ve managed to shine a light on the subject a little better with the use of at least some comparative points." You’ve not read the thread, have you? Firstly, you are presenting your opinion as ‘absolute fact’, you may be convinced of the veracity of your opinion but it is still just an opinion. Secondly, the study which stated brains don’t finish developing was flawed, very flawed. It didn’t test anyone over 25. The reality is our brains never stop developing, there is no arbitrary age when they are fully formed. Your brain is as different at 30 from when you were 25 as it was at 25 from when you were 20. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Children are not sure of anything. That’s called being a child. If you can’t trust a child to decide a healthy dinner for each night of the week and prepare and cook it, they sure as shit can’t be trusted with life altering decisions based on which algorithm they followed on TikTok. I am 100% certain that most of the kids questioning it are doing it because they’re influenced by what’s on their phone’s social media feeds. The real, genuine tiny fraction left may need some support and help, but the majority are just doing what kids do… not knowing what they want to be in any sense of the word. What about the trans kids who were trans before social media? What are you 100% certain they were influenced by, The Beano? There were a hell of a lot less because they were genuinely trans and not just jumping on trends. Sorry, it’s an absolute fact. As kids, our minds are manipulated by the smallest of things. Everyone with a brain cell and has been a child (everyone) knows this. That’s why you wanted certain things as a child, because they were pushed on you via TV advertising. That’s why millions of little kids wanted to be Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles back in the 80’s. But now they’re not watching TV. They’re watching Dylan Mulvaney get rich and famous off of his tacky and obvious infringement of real trans people’s experiences. That’s the new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Except once you’ve transitioned you can’t so easily take off the mask. That’s why it’s dangerous to support children’s desires like this. If they’re genuinely trans, they’ll still be trans when they’re 18 and can do whatever the hell they want with the full strength of the law behind them. But as children, they should just be out playing with friends, not sitting around wondering what gender to be today. I have some trans friends who are legitimately and very clearly living their best life because they transitioned. But they were adults when they made that actual change. They had weighed up their real feelings about it with at least a somewhat developed brain. You know the brain doesn’t stop developing until around the age of 25, right? So all the way up to that, your personality hasn’t fully and absolutely locked in. There’s many things you can’t know for sure. And there’s way too many people - especially in the USA - blathering on about how puberty blockers should be absolutely given to all children who request it. WHAT KID KNOWS WHAT A PUBERTY BLOCKER IS??? lol. I’ll tell you… the ones who sit on TikTok all day. So, your Beano comment wasn’t clearly thought through, but I hope I’ve managed to shine a light on the subject a little better with the use of at least some comparative points. You’ve not read the thread, have you? Firstly, you are presenting your opinion as ‘absolute fact’, you may be convinced of the veracity of your opinion but it is still just an opinion. Secondly, the study which stated brains don’t finish developing was flawed, very flawed. It didn’t test anyone over 25. The reality is our brains never stop developing, there is no arbitrary age when they are fully formed. Your brain is as different at 30 from when you were 25 as it was at 25 from when you were 20." University of Rochester Medical Center: Understanding the Teen Brain " The rational part of a teen’s brain isn’t fully developed and won’t be until age 25 or so. In fact, recent research has found that adult and teen brains work differently. Adults think with the prefrontal cortex, the brain’s rational part. This is the part of the brain that responds to situations with good judgment and an awareness of long-term consequences. Teens process information with the amygdala. This is the emotional part." NIH The Teen Brain: 7 Things to Know "Although the brain stops growing in size by early adolescence, the teen years are all about fine-tuning how the brain works. The brain finishes developing and maturing in the mid-to-late 20s. The part of the brain behind the forehead, called the prefrontal cortex, is one of the last parts to mature. This area is responsible for skills like planning, prioritizing, and making good decisions." National library of medicine: Maturation of the adolescent brain "It is well established that the brain undergoes a “rewiring” process that is not complete until approximately 25 years of age." I am the mother of a teenager with additional needs who identified as transgender for approximately 18 months. She had supportive parents, peers and a great team of professionals surrounding and supporting her through what was absolutely a phase. If we had have given in to her pleading for hormone treatment and puberty blockers, she would be in even more dire straights than she was going through what she experienced as a traumatic phase of change in her body and accepting this change as an autistic person than she would having had to go through this phase as a natural part of life. She is now very happy with what life and nature has given her and embracing her femininity and female body. As someone accessing a special needs unit in mainstream school, she was surrounded by peers in similar situations - teens with additional needs identifying as this, that and the other. Those who are different are particularly vulnerable as they are welcomed with open arms by others who are different. It is extremely important to differentiate between those who are genuinely born transsex, a tiny tiny minority, to those who are not. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Children are not sure of anything. That’s called being a child. If you can’t trust a child to decide a healthy dinner for each night of the week and prepare and cook it, they sure as shit can’t be trusted with life altering decisions based on which algorithm they followed on TikTok. I am 100% certain that most of the kids questioning it are doing it because they’re influenced by what’s on their phone’s social media feeds. The real, genuine tiny fraction left may need some support and help, but the majority are just doing what kids do… not knowing what they want to be in any sense of the word. What about the trans kids who were trans before social media? What are you 100% certain they were influenced by, The Beano? There were a hell of a lot less because they were genuinely trans and not just jumping on trends. Sorry, it’s an absolute fact. As kids, our minds are manipulated by the smallest of things. Everyone with a brain cell and has been a child (everyone) knows this. That’s why you wanted certain things as a child, because they were pushed on you via TV advertising. That’s why millions of little kids wanted to be Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles back in the 80’s. But now they’re not watching TV. They’re watching Dylan Mulvaney get rich and famous off of his tacky and obvious infringement of real trans people’s experiences. That’s the new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Except once you’ve transitioned you can’t so easily take off the mask. That’s why it’s dangerous to support children’s desires like this. If they’re genuinely trans, they’ll still be trans when they’re 18 and can do whatever the hell they want with the full strength of the law behind them. But as children, they should just be out playing with friends, not sitting around wondering what gender to be today. I have some trans friends who are legitimately and very clearly living their best life because they transitioned. But they were adults when they made that actual change. They had weighed up their real feelings about it with at least a somewhat developed brain. You know the brain doesn’t stop developing until around the age of 25, right? So all the way up to that, your personality hasn’t fully and absolutely locked in. There’s many things you can’t know for sure. And there’s way too many people - especially in the USA - blathering on about how puberty blockers should be absolutely given to all children who request it. WHAT KID KNOWS WHAT A PUBERTY BLOCKER IS??? lol. I’ll tell you… the ones who sit on TikTok all day. So, your Beano comment wasn’t clearly thought through, but I hope I’ve managed to shine a light on the subject a little better with the use of at least some comparative points." You think your personality is fixed at 25? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Children are not sure of anything. That’s called being a child. If you can’t trust a child to decide a healthy dinner for each night of the week and prepare and cook it, they sure as shit can’t be trusted with life altering decisions based on which algorithm they followed on TikTok. I am 100% certain that most of the kids questioning it are doing it because they’re influenced by what’s on their phone’s social media feeds. The real, genuine tiny fraction left may need some support and help, but the majority are just doing what kids do… not knowing what they want to be in any sense of the word. What about the trans kids who were trans before social media? What are you 100% certain they were influenced by, The Beano? There were a hell of a lot less because they were genuinely trans and not just jumping on trends. Sorry, it’s an absolute fact. As kids, our minds are manipulated by the smallest of things. Everyone with a brain cell and has been a child (everyone) knows this. That’s why you wanted certain things as a child, because they were pushed on you via TV advertising. That’s why millions of little kids wanted to be Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles back in the 80’s. But now they’re not watching TV. They’re watching Dylan Mulvaney get rich and famous off of his tacky and obvious infringement of real trans people’s experiences. That’s the new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Except once you’ve transitioned you can’t so easily take off the mask. That’s why it’s dangerous to support children’s desires like this. If they’re genuinely trans, they’ll still be trans when they’re 18 and can do whatever the hell they want with the full strength of the law behind them. But as children, they should just be out playing with friends, not sitting around wondering what gender to be today. I have some trans friends who are legitimately and very clearly living their best life because they transitioned. But they were adults when they made that actual change. They had weighed up their real feelings about it with at least a somewhat developed brain. You know the brain doesn’t stop developing until around the age of 25, right? So all the way up to that, your personality hasn’t fully and absolutely locked in. There’s many things you can’t know for sure. And there’s way too many people - especially in the USA - blathering on about how puberty blockers should be absolutely given to all children who request it. WHAT KID KNOWS WHAT A PUBERTY BLOCKER IS??? lol. I’ll tell you… the ones who sit on TikTok all day. So, your Beano comment wasn’t clearly thought through, but I hope I’ve managed to shine a light on the subject a little better with the use of at least some comparative points. You’ve not read the thread, have you? Firstly, you are presenting your opinion as ‘absolute fact’, you may be convinced of the veracity of your opinion but it is still just an opinion. Secondly, the study which stated brains don’t finish developing was flawed, very flawed. It didn’t test anyone over 25. The reality is our brains never stop developing, there is no arbitrary age when they are fully formed. Your brain is as different at 30 from when you were 25 as it was at 25 from when you were 20. University of Rochester Medical Center: Understanding the Teen Brain " The rational part of a teen’s brain isn’t fully developed and won’t be until age 25 or so. In fact, recent research has found that adult and teen brains work differently. Adults think with the prefrontal cortex, the brain’s rational part. This is the part of the brain that responds to situations with good judgment and an awareness of long-term consequences. Teens process information with the amygdala. This is the emotional part." NIH The Teen Brain: 7 Things to Know "Although the brain stops growing in size by early adolescence, the teen years are all about fine-tuning how the brain works. The brain finishes developing and maturing in the mid-to-late 20s. The part of the brain behind the forehead, called the prefrontal cortex, is one of the last parts to mature. This area is responsible for skills like planning, prioritizing, and making good decisions." National library of medicine: Maturation of the adolescent brain "It is well established that the brain undergoes a “rewiring” process that is not complete until approximately 25 years of age." I am the mother of a teenager with additional needs who identified as transgender for approximately 18 months. She had supportive parents, peers and a great team of professionals surrounding and supporting her through what was absolutely a phase. If we had have given in to her pleading for hormone treatment and puberty blockers, she would be in even more dire straights than she was going through what she experienced as a traumatic phase of change in her body and accepting this change as an autistic person than she would having had to go through this phase as a natural part of life. She is now very happy with what life and nature has given her and embracing her femininity and female body. As someone accessing a special needs unit in mainstream school, she was surrounded by peers in similar situations - teens with additional needs identifying as this, that and the other. Those who are different are particularly vulnerable as they are welcomed with open arms by others who are different. It is extremely important to differentiate between those who are genuinely born transsex, a tiny tiny minority, to those who are not." Please excuse my clumsy language... I have a friend whose daughter at 13 came home from school and said she was trans and wanted to change, changed her name, pronouns, clothing, and so on. 4 years later at 17 she's happy as a girl with a boyfriend now and doing well at school. I have another friend whose step son at 12 had to change school because he went in and told his school mates he was gay, and suffered for doing so. Whether he is gay or straight at 12 who knows but certainly not anyone else's business. | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" University of Rochester Medical Center: Understanding the Teen Brain " The rational part of a teen’s brain isn’t fully developed and won’t be until age 25 or so. In fact, recent research has found that adult and teen brains work differently. Adults think with the prefrontal cortex, the brain’s rational part. This is the part of the brain that responds to situations with good judgment and an awareness of long-term consequences. Teens process information with the amygdala. This is the emotional part." NIH The Teen Brain: 7 Things to Know "Although the brain stops growing in size by early adolescence, the teen years are all about fine-tuning how the brain works. The brain finishes developing and maturing in the mid-to-late 20s. The part of the brain behind the forehead, called the prefrontal cortex, is one of the last parts to mature. This area is responsible for skills like planning, prioritizing, and making good decisions." National library of medicine: Maturation of the adolescent brain "It is well established that the brain undergoes a “rewiring” process that is not complete until approximately 25 years of age." I am the mother of a teenager with additional needs who identified as transgender for approximately 18 months. She had supportive parents, peers and a great team of professionals surrounding and supporting her through what was absolutely a phase. If we had have given in to her pleading for hormone treatment and puberty blockers, she would be in even more dire straights than she was going through what she experienced as a traumatic phase of change in her body and accepting this change as an autistic person than she would having had to go through this phase as a natural part of life. She is now very happy with what life and nature has given her and embracing her femininity and female body. As someone accessing a special needs unit in mainstream school, she was surrounded by peers in similar situations - teens with additional needs identifying as this, that and the other. Those who are different are particularly vulnerable as they are welcomed with open arms by others Please excuse my clumsy language... I have a friend whose daughter at 13 came home from school and said she was trans and wanted to change, changed her name, pronouns, clothing, and so on. 4 years later at 17 she's happy as a girl with a boyfriend now and doing well at school. I have another friend whose step son at 12 had to change school because he went in and told his school mates he was gay, and suffered for doing so. Whether he is gay or straight at 12 who knows but certainly not anyone else's business. " Not at all clumsy
My daughter changed her pronouns and name too, wore more masculine clothes. It was a topic of discussion within the family units as well as with her therapist. We were accepting and supporting but only to the point of social transitioning, considering her age. We were pretty sure that it was a phase, and we were right.
But I dare not think what may have happened, had we been open to medical intervention like puberty blockers. I'm not sure how easy it would have been to get the treatment, especially considering she had a suicide attempt around various issues she was struggling with!
Children can be so cruel. Good to hear your friends' children are doing well though | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Children are not sure of anything. That’s called being a child. If you can’t trust a child to decide a healthy dinner for each night of the week and prepare and cook it, they sure as shit can’t be trusted with life altering decisions based on which algorithm they followed on TikTok. I am 100% certain that most of the kids questioning it are doing it because they’re influenced by what’s on their phone’s social media feeds. The real, genuine tiny fraction left may need some support and help, but the majority are just doing what kids do… not knowing what they want to be in any sense of the word. What about the trans kids who were trans before social media? What are you 100% certain they were influenced by, The Beano? There were a hell of a lot less because they were genuinely trans and not just jumping on trends. Sorry, it’s an absolute fact. As kids, our minds are manipulated by the smallest of things. Everyone with a brain cell and has been a child (everyone) knows this. That’s why you wanted certain things as a child, because they were pushed on you via TV advertising. That’s why millions of little kids wanted to be Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles back in the 80’s. But now they’re not watching TV. They’re watching Dylan Mulvaney get rich and famous off of his tacky and obvious infringement of real trans people’s experiences. That’s the new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Except once you’ve transitioned you can’t so easily take off the mask. That’s why it’s dangerous to support children’s desires like this. If they’re genuinely trans, they’ll still be trans when they’re 18 and can do whatever the hell they want with the full strength of the law behind them. But as children, they should just be out playing with friends, not sitting around wondering what gender to be today. I have some trans friends who are legitimately and very clearly living their best life because they transitioned. But they were adults when they made that actual change. They had weighed up their real feelings about it with at least a somewhat developed brain. You know the brain doesn’t stop developing until around the age of 25, right? So all the way up to that, your personality hasn’t fully and absolutely locked in. There’s many things you can’t know for sure. And there’s way too many people - especially in the USA - blathering on about how puberty blockers should be absolutely given to all children who request it. WHAT KID KNOWS WHAT A PUBERTY BLOCKER IS??? lol. I’ll tell you… the ones who sit on TikTok all day. So, your Beano comment wasn’t clearly thought through, but I hope I’ve managed to shine a light on the subject a little better with the use of at least some comparative points. You’ve not read the thread, have you? Firstly, you are presenting your opinion as ‘absolute fact’, you may be convinced of the veracity of your opinion but it is still just an opinion. Secondly, the study which stated brains don’t finish developing was flawed, very flawed. It didn’t test anyone over 25. The reality is our brains never stop developing, there is no arbitrary age when they are fully formed. Your brain is as different at 30 from when you were 25 as it was at 25 from when you were 20. University of Rochester Medical Center: Understanding the Teen Brain " The rational part of a teen’s brain isn’t fully developed and won’t be until age 25 or so. In fact, recent research has found that adult and teen brains work differently. Adults think with the prefrontal cortex, the brain’s rational part. This is the part of the brain that responds to situations with good judgment and an awareness of long-term consequences. Teens process information with the amygdala. This is the emotional part." NIH The Teen Brain: 7 Things to Know "Although the brain stops growing in size by early adolescence, the teen years are all about fine-tuning how the brain works. The brain finishes developing and maturing in the mid-to-late 20s. The part of the brain behind the forehead, called the prefrontal cortex, is one of the last parts to mature. This area is responsible for skills like planning, prioritizing, and making good decisions." National library of medicine: Maturation of the adolescent brain "It is well established that the brain undergoes a “rewiring” process that is not complete until approximately 25 years of age." I am the mother of a teenager with additional needs who identified as transgender for approximately 18 months. She had supportive parents, peers and a great team of professionals surrounding and supporting her through what was absolutely a phase. If we had have given in to her pleading for hormone treatment and puberty blockers, she would be in even more dire straights than she was going through what she experienced as a traumatic phase of change in her body and accepting this change as an autistic person than she would having had to go through this phase as a natural part of life. She is now very happy with what life and nature has given her and embracing her femininity and female body. As someone accessing a special needs unit in mainstream school, she was surrounded by peers in similar situations - teens with additional needs identifying as this, that and the other. Those who are different are particularly vulnerable as they are welcomed with open arms by others who are different. It is extremely important to differentiate between those who are genuinely born transsex, a tiny tiny minority, to those who are not. Please excuse my clumsy language... I have a friend whose daughter at 13 came home from school and said she was trans and wanted to change, changed her name, pronouns, clothing, and so on. 4 years later at 17 she's happy as a girl with a boyfriend now and doing well at school. I have another friend whose step son at 12 had to change school because he went in and told his school mates he was gay, and suffered for doing so. Whether he is gay or straight at 12 who knows but certainly not anyone else's business. " Similarly my granddaughter said she was gay as a young teen, but lost her virginity to a boy a few years later. I advised her not to put a label on her feelings towards boys and girls. IE not to confine herself and that childhood is a time for exploring herself and her environment. But "sexual orientation" is a far cry from (gender) identity because it's external to oneself. | |||
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"Children are not sure of anything. That’s called being a child. If you can’t trust a child to decide a healthy dinner for each night of the week and prepare and cook it, they sure as shit can’t be trusted with life altering decisions based on which algorithm they followed on TikTok. I am 100% certain that most of the kids questioning it are doing it because they’re influenced by what’s on their phone’s social media feeds. The real, genuine tiny fraction left may need some support and help, but the majority are just doing what kids do… not knowing what they want to be in any sense of the word. What about the trans kids who were trans before social media? What are you 100% certain they were influenced by, The Beano? There were a hell of a lot less because they were genuinely trans and not just jumping on trends. Sorry, it’s an absolute fact. As kids, our minds are manipulated by the smallest of things. Everyone with a brain cell and has been a child (everyone) knows this. That’s why you wanted certain things as a child, because they were pushed on you via TV advertising. That’s why millions of little kids wanted to be Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles back in the 80’s. But now they’re not watching TV. They’re watching Dylan Mulvaney get rich and famous off of his tacky and obvious infringement of real trans people’s experiences. That’s the new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Except once you’ve transitioned you can’t so easily take off the mask. That’s why it’s dangerous to support children’s desires like this. If they’re genuinely trans, they’ll still be trans when they’re 18 and can do whatever the hell they want with the full strength of the law behind them. But as children, they should just be out playing with friends, not sitting around wondering what gender to be today. I have some trans friends who are legitimately and very clearly living their best life because they transitioned. But they were adults when they made that actual change. They had weighed up their real feelings about it with at least a somewhat developed brain. You know the brain doesn’t stop developing until around the age of 25, right? So all the way up to that, your personality hasn’t fully and absolutely locked in. There’s many things you can’t know for sure. And there’s way too many people - especially in the USA - blathering on about how puberty blockers should be absolutely given to all children who request it. WHAT KID KNOWS WHAT A PUBERTY BLOCKER IS??? lol. I’ll tell you… the ones who sit on TikTok all day. So, your Beano comment wasn’t clearly thought through, but I hope I’ve managed to shine a light on the subject a little better with the use of at least some comparative points. You’ve not read the thread, have you? Firstly, you are presenting your opinion as ‘absolute fact’, you may be convinced of the veracity of your opinion but it is still just an opinion. Secondly, the study which stated brains don’t finish developing was flawed, very flawed. It didn’t test anyone over 25. The reality is our brains never stop developing, there is no arbitrary age when they are fully formed. Your brain is as different at 30 from when you were 25 as it was at 25 from when you were 20. University of Rochester Medical Center: Understanding the Teen Brain " The rational part of a teen’s brain isn’t fully developed and won’t be until age 25 or so. In fact, recent research has found that adult and teen brains work differently. Adults think with the prefrontal cortex, the brain’s rational part. This is the part of the brain that responds to situations with good judgment and an awareness of long-term consequences. Teens process information with the amygdala. This is the emotional part." NIH The Teen Brain: 7 Things to Know "Although the brain stops growing in size by early adolescence, the teen years are all about fine-tuning how the brain works. The brain finishes developing and maturing in the mid-to-late 20s. The part of the brain behind the forehead, called the prefrontal cortex, is one of the last parts to mature. This area is responsible for skills like planning, prioritizing, and making good decisions." National library of medicine: Maturation of the adolescent brain "It is well established that the brain undergoes a “rewiring” process that is not complete until approximately 25 years of age." I am the mother of a teenager with additional needs who identified as transgender for approximately 18 months. She had supportive parents, peers and a great team of professionals surrounding and supporting her through what was absolutely a phase. If we had have given in to her pleading for hormone treatment and puberty blockers, she would be in even more dire straights than she was going through what she experienced as a traumatic phase of change in her body and accepting this change as an autistic person than she would having had to go through this phase as a natural part of life. She is now very happy with what life and nature has given her and embracing her femininity and female body. As someone accessing a special needs unit in mainstream school, she was surrounded by peers in similar situations - teens with additional needs identifying as this, that and the other. Those who are different are particularly vulnerable as they are welcomed with open arms by others who are different. It is extremely important to differentiate between those who are genuinely born transsex, a tiny tiny minority, to those who are not." As I have explained on several occasions, the study that said brains aren't fully developed until 25 was flawed as it didn't study anyone over the age of 25. | |||
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" As I have explained on several occasions, the study that said brains aren't fully developed until 25 was flawed as it didn't study anyone over the age of 25." Ok, then I'm confused. Which study are you referring to? | |||
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"People keep citing other studies and 'international bodies'. Being an international body means nothing. It means power and influence, not truth. All that matters is the Crass report is a study taken seriously by the government. It shows that, at least in this country, there is a beginning to a swing back to normalcy. It is disgusting that authorities are kicking young folk to gender reassignment without considering other mental health issues. The only people claiming that this report is a bad thing are folks either encapsulated by the slogans and propaganda, or people with a vested interest either monetary or influence, who want to see it continue." ARE they kicking young folk to gender reassignment though? Or are they referring them to gender services? | |||
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"the elephant in the room is that children with serous problems are not getting prompt correct & effective treatment " So what should that correct and effective treatment be ? | |||
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"the elephant in the room is that children with serous problems are not getting prompt correct & effective treatment So what should that correct and effective treatment be ?" that is for professionals to decide, but just transferring them from the gender waiting list to the mental health waiting list does not help,2 year plus waiting lists are the real problem | |||
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"the elephant in the room is that children with serous problems are not getting prompt correct & effective treatment So what should that correct and effective treatment be ? that is for professionals to decide, but just transferring them from the gender waiting list to the mental health waiting list does not help,2 year plus waiting lists are the real problem " Some might argue a longer waiting list would help. Long enough to see them into adulthood. | |||
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"the elephant in the room is that children with serous problems are not getting prompt correct & effective treatment So what should that correct and effective treatment be ? that is for professionals to decide, but just transferring them from the gender waiting list to the mental health waiting list does not help,2 year plus waiting lists are the real problem Some might argue a longer waiting list would help. Long enough to see them into adulthood." and the adult services have even longer wait lists | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more " On another note OP: You tell children Santa exists, they believe you, no? Because they're children. You tell children to question their biological sex (repulsive, but a sad state of affairs in 'modern' education), and... Because they're children. | |||
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"the elephant in the room is that children with serous problems are not getting prompt correct & effective treatment So what should that correct and effective treatment be ? that is for professionals to decide, but just transferring them from the gender waiting list to the mental health waiting list does not help,2 year plus waiting lists are the real problem Some might argue a longer waiting list would help. Long enough to see them into adulthood." It might be ok for some to be left waiting with no access to help. I have no doubt my child would have taken his own life if he hadn't received the help he did, when he did. | |||
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"the elephant in the room is that children with serous problems are not getting prompt correct & effective treatment So what should that correct and effective treatment be ? that is for professionals to decide, but just transferring them from the gender waiting list to the mental health waiting list does not help,2 year plus waiting lists are the real problem Some might argue a longer waiting list would help. Long enough to see them into adulthood. It might be ok for some to be left waiting with no access to help. I have no doubt my child would have taken his own life if he hadn't received the help he did, when he did. " its always a worry as a parent when you cant get the support you feel your children need - | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more On another note OP: You tell children Santa exists, they believe you, no? Because they're children. You tell children to question their biological sex (repulsive, but a sad state of affairs in 'modern' education), and... Because they're children." Very true, it's also the way advertising and promotion and awareness happen | |||
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" When does anyone know this? I don’t know, which is rather the point. Mine too "you know when you either stand up to wee or sit down.. | |||
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"Thankyou to the 'gentleman' who is obviously following this thread and decided to private message me with a seriously uneducated and totally unsympathetic viewpoint rather than discus it here instead. Then blocked me after the rude message. Very grown up and intelligent. I just want to point out i am not that 'Gentleman' and would say, he is not a gentleman at all." It was Not you that messaged me. How would you even know if I am a gentleman or not? | |||
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"For those debating how long it takes for a brain to fully develop a personality. 1. The brain is a physical organ. It has no "personality". With regard to its sex, this is fixed in the womb and is immutable. With regards to neuron pathways, these develop throughout life depending upon external stimuli. 2. The "mind" has a personality. Base aspects of that personality are grounded in the immutable structure of the brain. One of those is the sex of the brain. Something we can call gender. This gender is not defined by gender expressions. Gender expressions are the way in which the gendered mind expresses its gender. This does not mean however that all female gendered people like make up and frilly knickers. That is social conditioning. A social construct. A female gendered mind may enjoy football. Combat sports. Engineering. What some antiquated people may call "masculine". However she will engage in these activities in a different way to a male gendered person. Ways which can be generalised as female traits. Creativity. Compassion. Cooperation." I don't think the person answered my question on personality. I certainly didn't agree with their post. We are all a composite of biology, psychology and sociology. For the most part biology is fixed. But not static. Birth, growth, deteriorate, death. Our psychology evolves which therefore means our personality and self identity also evolves. Sociology or more specifically socialisation is trigger point of our evolving psychology. As an example, in the last decade my identity in reference to work and health has had drastic changes, one fantastic and one abhorrent. I'm not the same person I was ten years ago, or twenty before that. Gender, I've never had to consider. Biologically, I've changed from a girl, to menstruating, a woman, a mother, menopause. These have caused psychological changes but no crises. And therein lies the difference between me and a transsex person. My biological makeup and psychological makeup have always aligned. People who cannot have empathy for another's psychological trauma, whatever the cause, I have no words, or at least no good words. | |||
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"Thankyou to the 'gentleman' who is obviously following this thread and decided to private message me with a seriously uneducated and totally unsympathetic viewpoint rather than discus it here instead. Then blocked me after the rude message. Very grown up and intelligent. I just want to point out i am not that 'Gentleman' and would say, he is not a gentleman at all. It was Not you that messaged me. How would you even know if I am a gentleman or not?" He was saying that the person who messaged you was not a gentleman. | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more " Yeah I think it should. Just need the gov to stop p***ing the publics taxes up the wall and invest in the NHS and other infrastructures properly. Boris Johnson blew 6 million alone on having the Union Jack painted on the PM’s plane alone as one small example of how tax payers money is used. That’s doesn’t even come close the the worst and that was when they waged war on nhs nurses on a much needed and well deserved pay rise x | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more Yeah I think it should. Just need the gov to stop p***ing the publics taxes up the wall and invest in the NHS and other infrastructures properly. Boris Johnson blew 6 million alone on having the Union Jack painted on the PM’s plane alone as one small example of how tax payers money is used. That’s doesn’t even come close the the worst and that was when they waged war on nhs nurses on a much needed and well deserved pay rise x" Whilst I agree that it was a waste, it didn't cast £6 million to paint the plane, £900,000 was spent on a "Refurb". My assumption is that this probably included a new set of alloys and a banging new stereo. Cal | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more Yeah I think it should. Just need the gov to stop p***ing the publics taxes up the wall and invest in the NHS and other infrastructures properly. Boris Johnson blew 6 million alone on having the Union Jack painted on the PM’s plane alone as one small example of how tax payers money is used. That’s doesn’t even come close the the worst and that was when they waged war on nhs nurses on a much needed and well deserved pay rise x" The pay rise was a pittance. | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more Yeah I think it should. Just need the gov to stop p***ing the publics taxes up the wall and invest in the NHS and other infrastructures properly. Boris Johnson blew 6 million alone on having the Union Jack painted on the PM’s plane alone as one small example of how tax payers money is used. That’s doesn’t even come close the the worst and that was when they waged war on nhs nurses on a much needed and well deserved pay rise x" The classic "exaggeration for attention" figure of £6m lol | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more Children shouldn't even be making any decision on their gender identity as they are children, it's ludicrous that they were even allowed in the first place. When did you know you were a man, or woman, boy or girl? Mr DD Well that doesn't warrant an answer!
Why not? Did it take until you were 25, or did you know earlier?
There are only 2 sexes so i always knew . Anything is a lifestyle choice that some adults make.
So you knew from birth that you were a boy/girl, before the concept of sex and gender was known to you, what you were and weren’t, yet you think other people don’t?
It’s all left wing rubbish. There are 2 sexes and then there are lifestyle choices have a nice day
Watch you don’t trip running away from a discussion x
There isn't a discussion though. I really can't be bothered listening to nonsensical rubbish. The only discussion that is needed is the enormous mental health impacts all this is having on people. There is nothing wrong with cross dressing and being gay / bi whatever. Just be you but embrace your biological gender without impacting others.
Mrs
Nah you're wrong."Soo informative... you must be right | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more Children shouldn't even be making any decision on their gender identity as they are children, it's ludicrous that they were even allowed in the first place. When did you know you were a man, or woman, boy or girl? Mr DD Well that doesn't warrant an answer!
Why not? Did it take until you were 25, or did you know earlier?
There are only 2 sexes so i always knew . Anything is a lifestyle choice that some adults make.
So you knew from birth that you were a boy/girl, before the concept of sex and gender was known to you, what you were and weren’t, yet you think other people don’t?
It’s all left wing rubbish. There are 2 sexes and then there are lifestyle choices have a nice day
Watch you don’t trip running away from a discussion x
There isn't a discussion though. I really can't be bothered listening to nonsensical rubbish. The only discussion that is needed is the enormous mental health impacts all this is having on people. There is nothing wrong with cross dressing and being gay / bi whatever. Just be you but embrace your biological gender without impacting others.
Mrs
Nah you're wrong.
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""Sex and therefore gender, is found between the ears. Not between the legs. Nor for that matter, the wardrobe doors." That's an interesting concept. Does that mean that nurture rather than nature is responsible for those who are struggling with their gender? It could explain why there are increasing numbers though. " No. It means completely the opposite. Your statement suggests you believe the brain is a sexless organ. That is a falsehood. A 1960s theory disproven in the 1990s. The reason LGB suddenly became LGBT I suspect. The fact that the brain is a sexed organ, and that this brain sex (gender) does not always align with genitalia or secondary (sex) characteristics, is the root cause of Gender Dysphoria. The increase in numbers approaching clinics for help is down to two aspects. 1. More people born transsex are coming forward to recieve help. No longer afraid of the violent social stigma attached to being openly transsex. As an example, as a result of taking part in this thread I have received abusive transphobic PMs from a person (female) I do not know, simply because they wanted to call me a "trans identifying man". 2. The LGB/LGBT political lobby that has always opposed transsex recognition, always rejected the reality of a sexed brain, has since the 1990s redefined transsexism in terms of image centered indentity politics. This is the catch all term transgender that classifies transsex people as some form of highly dedicated (gay) transvestite, when in reality being transsex has nothing to do with crossdressing, social gender expressions, nor sexuality. | |||
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"Hmmm. So many comments, so much , misinformation. Too many believing what they read in the newspaper. The Cass report is being torn apart. This is the new section 28 which is being proposed ! We shall see ! 4 years it’s taken Hillary Cass to come up with this extremely biased report. I welcome any constructive comments from members of the transgender community, but if you’re not transgender, you shouldn’t be preaching to me. I can’t say anymore while trying to keep my cool with this " Let's debate. Transwoman to transwoman. | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more Yeah I think it should. Just need the gov to stop p***ing the publics taxes up the wall and invest in the NHS and other infrastructures properly. Boris Johnson blew 6 million alone on having the Union Jack painted on the PM’s plane alone as one small example of how tax payers money is used. That’s doesn’t even come close the the worst and that was when they waged war on nhs nurses on a much needed and well deserved pay rise x Whilst I agree that it was a waste, it didn't cast £6 million to paint the plane, £900,000 was spent on a "Refurb". My assumption is that this probably included a new set of alloys and a banging new stereo. Cal" Hahaha, true x | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more Yeah I think it should. Just need the gov to stop p***ing the publics taxes up the wall and invest in the NHS and other infrastructures properly. Boris Johnson blew 6 million alone on having the Union Jack painted on the PM’s plane alone as one small example of how tax payers money is used. That’s doesn’t even come close the the worst and that was when they waged war on nhs nurses on a much needed and well deserved pay rise x The pay rise was a pittance." Yeah it was it appalling x | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more Yeah I think it should. Just need the gov to stop p***ing the publics taxes up the wall and invest in the NHS and other infrastructures properly. Boris Johnson blew 6 million alone on having the Union Jack painted on the PM’s plane alone as one small example of how tax payers money is used. That’s doesn’t even come close the the worst and that was when they waged war on nhs nurses on a much needed and well deserved pay rise x The classic "exaggeration for attention" figure of £6m lol" Apologise, not my intention as someone correctly pointed out is was only £900,000 of tax’s payers money on the paint job during covid. The £10 million of tax payers money blown to refit it out for mps and royal vips to travel privately was in 2015 under David Cameron during austerity. With the length of time and endless parade of government wasting public money it becomes hard to keep track of which one, for how much and when screwed over the public one way or another, particularly with tax payers money rather then investing in vital services that effect lives. I’ll be the first admit I do get bit overly impassioned when it comes to needless suffering and loss of life and focus more on the corruption and contempt for the very people they serve then the exact amounts, dates and which Ex Tory PM that should be in a prison cell and not making a fortune off the back of being a PM. I guess seeing were in a state where there’s debates on which health service we can afford to fund to give the most and best help possible to kids and adults, see people fighting to stop the removal of funding for school meals and attacks by the government on food banks and nurses as just a few examples of the state of things while they waste money, makes my blood boil. I hope they do invest more in actually providing services that are able to do far more in helping trans kids find the path that’s right for them, nobody else with out any public or government ideologies forced on them or practices that only make what must be an already difficult time for them even more distressing. That they fund services to support them as much as possible all the way through what ever path they choose to take ultimately. I’m not trans so I can’t speak knowledgeable of what it like to go through that or be trans, however I can easily imagine it must be a horrific ordeal to go threw even before taking in consideration that while dealing with that they also get caught in the middle of and ultimately suffer from the public and political debates etc on what they as none trans people think is best for Trans people based off of their own dogmatic and prejudice view. Maybe instead of all these debate, public division and hate stores by the media and government. They give trans people their own voice and have a dedicated department and think tank comprised of trans people and medical expert with a long proven record with gender reassignment in a none biases fashion decide on how best to support and represent the trans community from health service to laws passed. So trans people for once can have the power to shape bills put forward and laws passed regarding trans issues so it’s not just lip service when we talk about equality and inclusion? Maybe I’m completely wrong or got the wrong end of things but as a country we need to do more for each other, support and accept each other then contempt and indifference, with a government that also supports and champions that. Sorry for going on all | |||
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"The reason thousands of children are unsure of their identity is because the world is confusing them these days before they even start to think about what they like. When I was a kid the boys didn't wanna play with the girls and the girls didn't wanna play with the boys until we were a bit older. Now we expecting saying that those boys who don't wanna play with girls, and those girls who don't want to play with boys at 5yrs old must be gay or confused! Simple answer they are just too young to know what they want yet! " It's not about wanting, it's about being. | |||
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"It's not about wanting, it's about being." This is the biggest misconception with the trans issue. I tried everything I possible could to be the male I was born as because that was what I wanted more than anything to be. That’s what people expected of me and I wanted to make everyone happy with me. It’s impossible to describe how much I truly wanted to be that person but it was literally killing me slowly but surely and in the end the only option to keep living was to give in and be the person I actually was/am. I don’t care what anyone else here thinks of me for doing that, I know who I am and I don’t need to convince anyone of that. I’m just “being” and getting on with life | |||
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"Finally we start to get the truth rising through the dogma. Trans Arguments 1. "Children are to young to decide what gender they are" Wrong. Trans kids KNOW what gender they were born. They also know that the majority of people hate them because of the gender they were born, and so they feel pressure to conform to the demands placed upon them to act in accordance with gender norms society says they should have. The trans child is simply trying to stay alive in a world full of abusive adults obsessed with their genitalia, who insist they act in a way the adult demands and not in accordance with their born humanity. As such, I don't crossdress. I stopped crossdressing the day I stopped pretending to be a male as society demanded, and started being the transfemale I was born. 2. There are only two sexes/genders Wrong. There are only two sexes/genders involved in human reproduction. That's it. In terms of biology and sociology, human beings can be generalised, as a minimum, as a ternary. That is there are males, females, and everyone in between. Theology, not science, first claimed binary sexism was reality. Science has then been misused in an attempt to prove this theology. Not just in the misapplication of reproductive science, but more disturbingly in the routine surgical mutilation of newborns manifesting third sex physiology to make their bodies "fit" binary sexism theology, and through state sanctioned conversion therapy whereby transsex children are psychologically, emotionally and physically abused in an attempt to convince them they are the sex of their genitalia, and not of who they know themselves to be. 3. Being Transsex is the same as being a TV/CD/Drag Queen Wrong. In each of the above the participant makes a conscious choice to "act out" a gender identity different from their own. This is done for pleasure. Often as part of their sexuality. For this reason the gay rights lobby adopted the anti transsex label transgender, and applied it to transsex people as well as TV/CD/Drag Queens, falsely claiming a link where none exists. Being transsex is not about social gender expression, image, nor sexuality. It is about having a body in which you can live without intense suffering. It is about staying alive. 4. Gender is a choice, a social construct, an identity Wrong. Gender is the psychological aspect of the sexed brain. It is a born biological reality. It is immutable not mutable. There is no gender fluidity. Gender expression is a choice. Gender expressions are social constructs. Gender expression is fluid, changing in time and place throughout history. What the majority of those who claim to be campaigning for transrights say is BS. First they redefine gender as gender expression. Then they redefine transsex as the same as TV/CD/Drag Then they claim a link to homosexuality Then they claim people can "question" their gender before deciding upon a "preferred gender" Then they claim gender is an "identity" Then they campaign on transgender issues to protect their ideology, to the extent of further oppressing transsex people. As such they AND the traditional anti-transsex lobby do nothing more than deny the existence of transsex people's born biological humanity. For all of the above I have repeatedly stated... I am not a woman. A woman is an adult human female. I do not "identify" as a woman. I AM a transwoman, because I AM an adult human transfemale. This is my born biological reality. I am not a transgender woman, because my gender does not come in a size 10 little black dress, nor a lovely shade of cappuccino eye shadow. My gender is a born biological reality, not the chosen gender expressions of a crossdressing male. If anyone wishes to PM me simply to insist I am a man, don't bother. Your binary sexist bigotry does not hurt me. I've suffered more psychological abuse in my life than you could ever imagine. At best, you are an annoying knat buzzing around my head. If you're a crossdressing male wanting to accuse me of being transphobic, homophobic and elitist because I reject the image and sexuality centered transgender ideology of the gay rights lobby ... don't bother. Your hurt ego is no concern of mine. Nor is your insecurity about your own masculinity and/or sexuality. And if you're a priest here to tell me my born biological reality is against God's natural order and I'm deluded, deceived by Satan and going to hell... don't bother. I'm a pagan witch. Yours is not the only God. Other religious beliefs throughout history and the present day understand and accept that human beings are third sex creatures. If you're a self identifying "progressive" political activist with identitarian tendencies... don't bother. Your "progressive" ideology is oppressive binary sexism to me. If you want real progressive politics look to India and other developing economies where the state recognises third sex people in law. Something achieved because their society never adopted the binary sexist theology of Christianity, nor tried to prove its validity by the misappropriation of human reproductive science, nor the surgical mutilation and state sponsored brainwashing of third sex people." Your opinion, my opinion is a CHILD is not capable of making a life changing decision. Children should not be left to suffer mentally but thats not the same as encouraging them one way or the other. | |||
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"In my experience of gender services, my child wasn't encouraged one way or another though. " Anyone who seriously thinks that gender services encourage anyone to do anything have no experience of what they actually do. | |||
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"And why is there even "gender services" for children. Shouldn't they have pastoral care covering a wide range of issues that affects children, and as said before why isn't this part of their education program rather than something that seems to be expected from the NHS ? The NHS should be for sick people in my opinion." I've already explained our own experiences, why gender services was so important for us, why the school pastoral system isn't equipped, and the effects of gender dysphoria. | |||
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"Your opinion, my opinion is a CHILD is not capable of making a life changing decision. Children should not be left to suffer mentally but thats not the same as encouraging them one way or the other." A CHILD does not make a life changing decision. A CHILD suffers psychological, emotional and often physical abuse from a parent, obsessed with their child's genitalia and indoctrinated by binary sexist theology, who insists upon forcing THEIR view of the child's born humanity upon the child. Furthermore, no gender clinic encourages a child one way or another. To do so is malpractice. A gender clinic supports the child to be themselves, in a world full of hate filled binary sexists who insist upon psychologically, emotionally and physically abusing the child because they have an unhealthy obsession with the child's genitalia. Nor can any child under the age of 16 access cross sex therapies. Puberty blockers not being a cross sex therapy. They are a proven method of easing a transsex child's psychological suffering, used without question or controversy for many many other medical conditions. Only in the treatment of transsex children is there controversy over their use. A perfect example of the institutional binary sexist discrimination rampant within our society, that denies the born biological humanity of third sex people. As such, it would not be the clinic forcing a child into acting according to their will, but you. It is you who (a) claims gender is a choice, (b) refuses to acknowledge the born biological humanity of transsex/third sex people, and (c) demands a third sex child experiences preventable and life threatening suffering, all so that your theologically based binary sexist world view is not challenged. As such you are justifying the theologically driven abuse of third sex children. In my opinion. | |||
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"And why is there even "gender services" for children. Shouldn't they have pastoral care covering a wide range of issues that affects children, and as said before why isn't this part of their education program rather than something that seems to be expected from the NHS ? The NHS should be for sick people in my opinion." Because Gender Dysphoria is a recognised medical condition that affects people born transsex. Gender Dysphoria / Gender is not a choice as you suggest. It is a psychological condition that kills people. "Pastoral care" is not suitable. Your statement is as ridiculous as claiming someone with no legs should be given "pastoral care" to encourage them to walk, rather than giving them a wheelchair. It is a statement based upon your refusal to accept your theologically founded binary sexist beliefs are false. QED it is you that requires pastoral care. I suggest a visit to the third sex temples of India, a country where 1.1 billion people understand, accept and value third sex humanity. | |||
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"Sorry encouraged is the wrong word and no, I've no idea what they do hence entering into discussion !" KOI is Northern Ireland's gender services team. Referral to this specialist team, in the majority of cases, is made through CAMHS. As Suzy said they provide space and support for the child to be themselves. They also provide a vital conduit for the child to family and schools, helping and advising on things such as social transitioning. | |||
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"Surely this should be part of pastoral care during education not another pull on NHS resources It seems to have been put firmly in the health care bracket Which IMO is wrong as it suggests there's something wrong with the child rather than the normal trajectory of identity discovery which includes gender. It doesn't suggest there's something "wrong" with the child/patient at all. That is your reading of it. There's nothing inherently "wrong" with anyone who needs to access healthcare. Would you say there is something "wrong" with those who access contraceptive healthcare, seeing as it is also healthcare? How about LGBT (and straight) people who use PREP? Or is that definition only reserved for Trans people? Your comparisons involve medications so are incomparable. Counselling does not have to come from the NHS. It's not incomparable at all. Healthcare is healthcare. You've dodged the questions because you know your position is untenable when scrutinised, same as any other Transphobe who thinks we need special rules for Trans people." You’re causing an argument for the sake of causing an argument, and made yourself look silly in the process. There was nothing transphobic said at all and you’ve just gone on the attack for no good reason | |||
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"You cant encourage someone to change their gender the same way you can't encourage someone to change their sexuality. This whole "children are being confused by information about trans" is rubbish. Most people are cisgender." Not sure what your expertise is but certainly some kids are being confused. 2 thankfully are now no longer Confused and for now at least doing OK. One sadly is no longer with us. | |||
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"Is it right that this report suggests the need for extra NHS resources to be made available? Thousands of CHILDREN unsure of their gender identity let down by the NHS Will it be extra funding meaning more taxes or cuts in other areas or just stretch the NHS budgets even more Children shouldn't even be making any decision on their gender identity as they are children, it's ludicrous that they were even allowed in the first place. When did you know you were a man, or woman, boy or girl? Mr DD Well that doesn't warrant an answer!
Why not? Did it take until you were 25, or did you know earlier?
There are only 2 sexes so i always knew . Anything is a lifestyle choice that some adults make.
So you knew from birth that you were a boy/girl, before the concept of sex and gender was known to you, what you were and weren’t, yet you think other people don’t?
It’s all left wing rubbish. There are 2 sexes and then there are lifestyle choices have a nice day
Watch you don’t trip running away from a discussion x
There isn't a discussion though. I really can't be bothered listening to nonsensical rubbish. The only discussion that is needed is the enormous mental health impacts all this is having on people. There is nothing wrong with cross dressing and being gay / bi whatever. Just be you but embrace your biological gender without impacting others.
Mrs "Why add your 2 cents if you weren’t bothered. Typical and obvious uneducated response | |||
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"Sorry encouraged is the wrong word and no, I've no idea what they do hence entering into discussion ! KOI is Northern Ireland's gender services team. Referral to this specialist team, in the majority of cases, is made through CAMHS. As Suzy said they provide space and support for the child to be themselves. They also provide a vital conduit for the child to family and schools, helping and advising on things such as social transitioning. " Thanks, it's refreshing that someone can be informative without being rude and dismissive. I'd be very surprised if anyone that hasn't experienced the system knows anything about it. It's a little bizarre to insult physically disabled people to make a point. | |||
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"Sorry encouraged is the wrong word and no, I've no idea what they do hence entering into discussion ! KOI is Northern Ireland's gender services team. Referral to this specialist team, in the majority of cases, is made through CAMHS. As Suzy said they provide space and support for the child to be themselves. They also provide a vital conduit for the child to family and schools, helping and advising on things such as social transitioning. Thanks, it's refreshing that someone can be informative without being rude and dismissive. I'd be very surprised if anyone that hasn't experienced the system knows anything about it. It's a little bizarre to insult physically disabled people to make a point." I'm no expert. I'm just a parent of a trans child who has benefitted from access to gender services. I'm still learning. I still get things wrong. I try to be understanding of others who get things wrong unwittingly. And I also appreciate frustration caused by an unwillingness to try and understand, and by lack of empathy. | |||
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"Thanks, it's refreshing that someone can be informative without being rude and dismissive. I'd be very surprised if anyone that hasn't experienced the system knows anything about it." With respect, it’s not like this thread was started with the vibe of “I don’t know the issues, could someone please explain it to me”. The problem with these kind of threads is that many people come in after already having formed an opinion and rarely are they looking to be educated by those with experience, it’s just used as a place to vent a frustration or idea which can make it very difficult for any comment that doesn’t agree with them come across as anything other than rude or dismissive. I’m glad that you’ve found it useful though | |||
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