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Sicknote Britain
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The PM will rattle on about sicknote Britain again today and of course ther are malingerers. They are saying that work is good for you in the same way that George Orwell wrote about Animal Farm. But let Tom add a thought. In nearly every occupation, fewer staff are expected to do more work in less time and these staff have been expected to pick up the slack. No wonder people are off with stress and dread going back. Sick Note Britain Tom's arse. Work good for you. Great for a MP and not so great for a shop worker who has a 15 minute tea break minus the time it takes to get to the canteen. |
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By *bi HaiveMan 3 weeks ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
I can't watch when anyone from the government is on TV.
Would cost me a fortune in new TV's.
Of course he'll slate the population. Because he's a '****'.
*choose the 4 letter noun of your choice.  |
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I think the better idea would be to fairly assess people in the first place. And be realistic in the fit for work criteria. I know there people who play the system but there is also the really challenged people too |
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Why on earth this government can't try and bring people together instead of trying to demonise certain sections of society and create larger and wider divisions I do not know. It's almost as if they have lost control of everything and are thrashing, desperately around trying to find solutions to problems they don't really understand.
Do they think doctors just issue fitness to work certificates willy nilly. Do they think you can even see a doctor to get one? |
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think there is a lot to consider here - I feel there is a generation that goes of sick really easily and quickly, my child does with her work, one sniffle or late night and she is tired, she rings in sick!
There are work places that the work load is so great and the pressure and lack of support is intense (just recently quit a job like this) that people go off sick and are off for 4 -6 months at a time because its so hard to put yourself back in the thick of it all.
And i suppose getting in to see a GP in a lot of places is so difficult its hard to get treatment for a lot of ailments. I needed time out and basically rang GP for a sick note and they just give it me over the phone asking how long I wanted !
40 + hour weeks are long working weeks I have just dropped to a 30 hour week and its so much less stress |
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"Why on earth this government can't try and bring people together instead of trying to demonise certain sections of society and create larger and wider divisions I do not know. It's almost as if they have lost control of everything and are thrashing, desperately around trying to find solutions to problems they don't really understand.
Do they think doctors just issue fitness to work certificates willy nilly. Do they think you can even see a doctor to get one?"
Because it's easier for the government to create scapegoats rather than actually deal with problems |
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"Why on earth this government can't try and bring people together instead of trying to demonise certain sections of society and create larger and wider divisions I do not know. It's almost as if they have lost control of everything and are thrashing, desperately around trying to find solutions to problems they don't really understand.
Do they think doctors just issue fitness to work certificates willy nilly. Do they think you can even see a doctor to get one?
Because it's easier for the government to create scapegoats rather than actually deal with problems"
That's about it really.
Ooo look over there at that nasty person being ill. If only they would go to work all your problems would be solved |
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"The PM will rattle on about sicknote Britain again today and of course ther are malingerers. They are saying that work is good for you in the same way that George Orwell wrote about Animal Farm. But let Tom add a thought. In nearly every occupation, fewer staff are expected to do more work in less time and these staff have been expected to pick up the slack. No wonder people are off with stress and dread going back. Sick Note Britain Tom's arse. Work good for you. Great for a MP and not so great for a shop worker who has a 15 minute tea break minus the time it takes to get to the canteen. "
What's a tea break?
Actually what's a lunch break? I eat while I work. Then work after work... |
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By *os19Man 3 weeks ago
Edmonton |
Now a days it seems a lot of people / claimants seem to suffer from depression or mental health I think this type of illness whilst genuine can also be easy to put it on.Lets be honest if someone said they were feeling suicidal would we really be able to be certain they are genuine or trying to get out of working. |
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"The PM will rattle on about sicknote Britain again today and of course ther are malingerers. They are saying that work is good for you in the same way that George Orwell wrote about Animal Farm. But let Tom add a thought. In nearly every occupation, fewer staff are expected to do more work in less time and these staff have been expected to pick up the slack. No wonder people are off with stress and dread going back. Sick Note Britain Tom's arse. Work good for you. Great for a MP and not so great for a shop worker who has a 15 minute tea break minus the time it takes to get to the canteen.
What's a tea break?
Actually what's a lunch break? I eat while I work. Then work after work..."
Why on earth would you (or anybody) do that? |
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"Now a days it seems a lot of people / claimants seem to suffer from depression or mental health I think this type of illness whilst genuine can also be easy to put it on.Lets be honest if someone said they were feeling suicidal would we really be able to be certain they are genuine or trying to get out of working."
Don't treat them.
If they are still around in a few months then they can go back to work.
If not, problem solved. |
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"Why on earth this government can't try and bring people together instead of trying to demonise certain sections of society and create larger and wider divisions I do not know. It's almost as if they have lost control of everything and are thrashing, desperately around trying to find solutions to problems they don't really understand.
Do they think doctors just issue fitness to work certificates willy nilly. Do they think you can even see a doctor to get one?"
Divide and conquer, the best way to control the population. |
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By *ros40Man 3 weeks ago
Bedford |
"Why on earth this government can't try and bring people together instead of trying to demonise certain sections of society and create larger and wider divisions I do not know. It's almost as if they have lost control of everything and are thrashing, desperately around trying to find solutions to problems they don't really understand.
Do they think doctors just issue fitness to work certificates willy nilly. Do they think you can even see a doctor to get one?
Divide and conquer, the best way to control the population."
This  |
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"Now a days it seems a lot of people / claimants seem to suffer from depression or mental health I think this type of illness whilst genuine can also be easy to put it on.Lets be honest if someone said they were feeling suicidal would we really be able to be certain they are genuine or trying to get out of working."
Gee I wonder why there is an increase in mental health issues?
Could it be:
Increased energy costs
Increased food costs
Increased housing costs
Poor wages
Cuts to mental health services
Cuts to social care services
Lack of NHS funding
??? |
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"
Gee I wonder why there is an increase in mental health issues?
Could it be:
Increased energy costs
Increased food costs
Increased housing costs
Poor wages
Cuts to mental health services
Cuts to social care services
Lack of NHS funding
???"
The increase in mental health is easy.
Years ago, people just got on with it.
If you felt down or what ever, so what.
Then the big pharmaceutical companies got involved and made a pill, here take this, we will cheer you up and made a fortune by telling you, you are depressed, you suffer with anxiety or what.
I think there will be a lot more in years to come. |
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"
Gee I wonder why there is an increase in mental health issues?
Could it be:
Increased energy costs
Increased food costs
Increased housing costs
Poor wages
Cuts to mental health services
Cuts to social care services
Lack of NHS funding
???
The increase in mental health is easy.
Years ago, people just got on with it.
If you felt down or what ever, so what.
Then the big pharmaceutical companies got involved and made a pill, here take this, we will cheer you up and made a fortune by telling you, you are depressed, you suffer with anxiety or what.
I think there will be a lot more in years to come."
Poor Mental health isn't "feeling down" |
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"Years ago, people just got on with it.
If you felt down or what ever, so what.
Then the big pharmaceutical companies got involved and made a pill, here take this, we will cheer you up and made a fortune by telling you, you are depressed, you suffer with anxiety or what.
I think there will be a lot more in years to come."
"Poor Mental health isn't "feeling down""
Perhaps you should say that to all of those news editors that publish stories saying that children's mental health is suffering because of anxiety over exam results. |
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"Years ago, people just got on with it.
If you felt down or what ever, so what.
Then the big pharmaceutical companies got involved and made a pill, here take this, we will cheer you up and made a fortune by telling you, you are depressed, you suffer with anxiety or what.
I think there will be a lot more in years to come.
Poor Mental health isn't "feeling down"
Perhaps you should say that to all of those news editors that publish stories saying that children's mental health is suffering because of anxiety over exam results."
What's that got to do witu anything I've said? |
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"Years ago, people just got on with it.
If you felt down or what ever, so what.
Then the big pharmaceutical companies got involved and made a pill, here take this, we will cheer you up and made a fortune by telling you, you are depressed, you suffer with anxiety or what.
I think there will be a lot more in years to come."
"Poor Mental health isn't "feeling down""
"Perhaps you should say that to all of those news editors that publish stories saying that children's mental health is suffering because of anxiety over exam results."
"What's that got to do witu anything I've said?"
Someone else said that negative emotions are being medicalised, leading to an increase in reported mental health problems. You responded with "Poor Mental health isn't 'feeling down' ". I think you were trying to say that there's more to genuine mental health issues than just negative feelings. If that's right, you don't need to tell the other guy that, he clearly already knows. Instead you should be railing against all of those people that conflate 'negative feelings' and 'mental health issues', thereby downgrading the genuine problems of those that have actual mental health issues. |
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"The PM will rattle on about sicknote Britain again today and of course ther are malingerers. They are saying that work is good for you in the same way that George Orwell wrote about Animal Farm. But let Tom add a thought. In nearly every occupation, fewer staff are expected to do more work in less time and these staff have been expected to pick up the slack. No wonder people are off with stress and dread going back. Sick Note Britain Tom's arse. Work good for you. Great for a MP and not so great for a shop worker who has a 15 minute tea break minus the time it takes to get to the canteen.
What's a tea break?
Actually what's a lunch break? I eat while I work. Then work after work...
Why on earth would you (or anybody) do that?"
It's extremely common in our understaffed NHS. |
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"
Gee I wonder why there is an increase in mental health issues?
Could it be:
Increased energy costs
Increased food costs
Increased housing costs
Poor wages
Cuts to mental health services
Cuts to social care services
Lack of NHS funding
???
The increase in mental health is easy.
Years ago, people just got on with it.
If you felt down or what ever, so what.
Then the big pharmaceutical companies got involved and made a pill, here take this, we will cheer you up and made a fortune by telling you, you are depressed, you suffer with anxiety or what.
I think there will be a lot more in years to come."
The govt needs people like you becoming doctors  |
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"The PM will rattle on about sicknote Britain again today and of course ther are malingerers. They are saying that work is good for you in the same way that George Orwell wrote about Animal Farm. But let Tom add a thought. In nearly every occupation, fewer staff are expected to do more work in less time and these staff have been expected to pick up the slack. No wonder people are off with stress and dread going back. Sick Note Britain Tom's arse. Work good for you. Great for a MP and not so great for a shop worker who has a 15 minute tea break minus the time it takes to get to the canteen.
What's a tea break?
Actually what's a lunch break? I eat while I work. Then work after work...
Why on earth would you (or anybody) do that?
It's extremely common in our understaffed NHS."
From the (thankfully limited) interactions I have had with the NHS it doesn't seem to be understaffed at all. Grossly inefficent, yes, but certainly not understaffed. |
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"The PM will rattle on about sicknote Britain again today and of course ther are malingerers. They are saying that work is good for you in the same way that George Orwell wrote about Animal Farm. But let Tom add a thought. In nearly every occupation, fewer staff are expected to do more work in less time and these staff have been expected to pick up the slack. No wonder people are off with stress and dread going back. Sick Note Britain Tom's arse. Work good for you. Great for a MP and not so great for a shop worker who has a 15 minute tea break minus the time it takes to get to the canteen.
What's a tea break?
Actually what's a lunch break? I eat while I work. Then work after work...
Why on earth would you (or anybody) do that?
It's extremely common in our understaffed NHS.
From the (thankfully limited) interactions I have had with the NHS it doesn't seem to be understaffed at all. Grossly inefficent, yes, but certainly not understaffed."
You know nothing! |
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"Years ago, people just got on with it.
If you felt down or what ever, so what.
Then the big pharmaceutical companies got involved and made a pill, here take this, we will cheer you up and made a fortune by telling you, you are depressed, you suffer with anxiety or what.
I think there will be a lot more in years to come.
Poor Mental health isn't "feeling down"
Perhaps you should say that to all of those news editors that publish stories saying that children's mental health is suffering because of anxiety over exam results."
Anxiety isn’t “feeling down”. |
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"The PM will rattle on about sicknote Britain again today and of course ther are malingerers. They are saying that work is good for you in the same way that George Orwell wrote about Animal Farm. But let Tom add a thought. In nearly every occupation, fewer staff are expected to do more work in less time and these staff have been expected to pick up the slack. No wonder people are off with stress and dread going back. Sick Note Britain Tom's arse. Work good for you. Great for a MP and not so great for a shop worker who has a 15 minute tea break minus the time it takes to get to the canteen.
What's a tea break?
Actually what's a lunch break? I eat while I work. Then work after work...
Why on earth would you (or anybody) do that?"
Pretty much everybody in the NHS does that. |
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By *otMe66Man 3 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
Connections, work place management and interaction with things and people we would avoid in everyday life is brought to you courtesy of the internet and it seems it never goes away…
Many people can’t cope with feeling like they are never succeeding or worried they can’t have or be like the other pretenders.
This sudden change in how we interact and set our own expectations, could be detrimental to our coping mechanisms |
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Sicknote Britain. Very difficult to see a GP. Lengthy hospital waiting lists. So if you have a genuine ailment what can you do. The problem with our country is we have large amounts of people in every town and city who are uneducated and unskilled. These people tend to be unfit, unhealthy and way overweight. They lack ambition As a result they probably are better off on benefits. More needs to be invested in education from a very young age to give everyone chances and choices in life. We need more discipline and better law and order. All of this will help the UK to be a successful country. |
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"Sicknote Britain. Very difficult to see a GP. Lengthy hospital waiting lists. So if you have a genuine ailment what can you do. The problem with our country is we have large amounts of people in every town and city who are uneducated and unskilled. These people tend to be unfit, unhealthy and way overweight. They lack ambition As a result they probably are better off on benefits. More needs to be invested in education from a very young age to give everyone chances and choices in life. We need more discipline and better law and order. All of this will help the UK to be a successful country. "
The problem in our current economic system was s that the return on investment for education is long term, and all the powerful people want s short term returns. |
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"Sicknote Britain. Very difficult to see a GP. Lengthy hospital waiting lists. So if you have a genuine ailment what can you do. The problem with our country is we have large amounts of people in every town and city who are uneducated and unskilled. These people tend to be unfit, unhealthy and way overweight. They lack ambition As a result they probably are better off on benefits. More needs to be invested in education from a very young age to give everyone chances and choices in life. We need more discipline and better law and order. All of this will help the UK to be a successful country. "
Very valid point re education. We have some of the best Universities in the world, yet at the other end of the scale we churn out kids who are barely educated. The question is why. Social? Funding? Class? Genes? |
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Smoke and mirrors, to distract from the implosion of their failing party and themselves.  . Divide and conquer but I think the vast majority of the country knows their game and that their time is truly up. |
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"Smoke and mirrors, to distract from the implosion of their failing party and themselves. . Divide and conquer but I think the vast majority of the country knows their game and that their time is truly up. "
Not sure that "the vast majority of the country knows their game". It's been the same situation for the last 13 years and as this forum demonstrates, people vote Tory relentlessly, regardless of how openly the government shows distain for British people. |
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"Sicknote Britain. Very difficult to see a GP. Lengthy hospital waiting lists. So if you have a genuine ailment what can you do. The problem with our country is we have large amounts of people in every town and city who are uneducated and unskilled. These people tend to be unfit, unhealthy and way overweight. They lack ambition As a result they probably are better off on benefits. More needs to be invested in education from a very young age to give everyone chances and choices in life. We need more discipline and better law and order. All of this will help the UK to be a successful country.
Very valid point re education. We have some of the best Universities in the world, yet at the other end of the scale we churn out kids who are barely educated. The question is why. Social? Funding? Class? Genes? "
There has been a big rise in anti-intellectualism in the last decade.
"I think the people of this country have had enough of experts" - Michael Gove |
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"Why on earth this government can't try and bring people together instead of trying to demonise certain sections of society and create larger and wider divisions I do not know. It's almost as if they have lost control of everything and are thrashing, desperately around trying to find solutions to problems they don't really understand.
Do they think doctors just issue fitness to work certificates willy nilly. Do they think you can even see a doctor to get one?
Because it's easier for the government to create scapegoats rather than actually deal with problems"
|
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"Sicknote Britain. Very difficult to see a GP. Lengthy hospital waiting lists. So if you have a genuine ailment what can you do. The problem with our country is we have large amounts of people in every town and city who are uneducated and unskilled. These people tend to be unfit, unhealthy and way overweight. They lack ambition As a result they probably are better off on benefits. More needs to be invested in education from a very young age to give everyone chances and choices in life. We need more discipline and better law and order. All of this will help the UK to be a successful country.
Very valid point re education. We have some of the best Universities in the world, yet at the other end of the scale we churn out kids who are barely educated. The question is why. Social? Funding? Class? Genes?
There has been a big rise in anti-intellectualism in the last decade.
"I think the people of this country have had enough of experts" - Michael Gove"
100%
That's why it's easier to convince people climate science isn't real, so the government can prioritise oil company's profits. Convince people to unquestioningly vote for shit like Brexit, Conservatives, Reform/BNP/UKIP etc. |
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"Smoke and mirrors, to distract from the implosion of their failing party and themselves. . Divide and conquer but I think the vast majority of the country knows their game and that their time is truly up.
Not sure that "the vast majority of the country knows their game". It's been the same situation for the last 13 years and as this forum demonstrates, people vote Tory relentlessly, regardless of how openly the government shows distain for British people."
|
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"Sicknote Britain. Very difficult to see a GP. Lengthy hospital waiting lists. So if you have a genuine ailment what can you do. The problem with our country is we have large amounts of people in every town and city who are uneducated and unskilled. These people tend to be unfit, unhealthy and way overweight. They lack ambition As a result they probably are better off on benefits. More needs to be invested in education from a very young age to give everyone chances and choices in life. We need more discipline and better law and order. All of this will help the UK to be a successful country.
Very valid point re education. We have some of the best Universities in the world, yet at the other end of the scale we churn out kids who are barely educated. The question is why. Social? Funding? Class? Genes?
There has been a big rise in anti-intellectualism in the last decade.
"I think the people of this country have had enough of experts" - Michael Gove
100%
That's why it's easier to convince people climate science isn't real, so the government can prioritise oil company's profits. Convince people to unquestioningly vote for shit like Brexit, Conservatives, Reform/BNP/UKIP etc."
Why be so patronising as to suggest people can't evaluate situations and vote accordingly? Just because outcomes doesn't accord with your views doesn't mean people have been coerced. |
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"Sicknote Britain. Very difficult to see a GP. Lengthy hospital waiting lists. So if you have a genuine ailment what can you do. The problem with our country is we have large amounts of people in every town and city who are uneducated and unskilled. These people tend to be unfit, unhealthy and way overweight. They lack ambition As a result they probably are better off on benefits. More needs to be invested in education from a very young age to give everyone chances and choices in life. We need more discipline and better law and order. All of this will help the UK to be a successful country.
Very valid point re education. We have some of the best Universities in the world, yet at the other end of the scale we churn out kids who are barely educated. The question is why. Social? Funding? Class? Genes?
There has been a big rise in anti-intellectualism in the last decade.
"I think the people of this country have had enough of experts" - Michael Gove
100%
That's why it's easier to convince people climate science isn't real, so the government can prioritise oil company's profits. Convince people to unquestioningly vote for shit like Brexit, Conservatives, Reform/BNP/UKIP etc.
Why be so patronising as to suggest people can't evaluate situations and vote accordingly? Just because outcomes doesn't accord with your views doesn't mean people have been coerced. "
It's nothing to do with me or my views.
Is there an alternative hypothesis as to why people vote for shit like Brexit, or political parties that prioritise oil company profits over tackling climate change, or for political parties that exist to sew division and hate?
|
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"Sicknote Britain. Very difficult to see a GP. Lengthy hospital waiting lists. So if you have a genuine ailment what can you do. The problem with our country is we have large amounts of people in every town and city who are uneducated and unskilled. These people tend to be unfit, unhealthy and way overweight. They lack ambition As a result they probably are better off on benefits. More needs to be invested in education from a very young age to give everyone chances and choices in life. We need more discipline and better law and order. All of this will help the UK to be a successful country.
Very valid point re education. We have some of the best Universities in the world, yet at the other end of the scale we churn out kids who are barely educated. The question is why. Social? Funding? Class? Genes?
There has been a big rise in anti-intellectualism in the last decade.
"I think the people of this country have had enough of experts" - Michael Gove
100%
That's why it's easier to convince people climate science isn't real, so the government can prioritise oil company's profits. Convince people to unquestioningly vote for shit like Brexit, Conservatives, Reform/BNP/UKIP etc.
Why be so patronising as to suggest people can't evaluate situations and vote accordingly? Just because outcomes doesn't accord with your views doesn't mean people have been coerced.
It's nothing to do with me or my views.
Is there an alternative hypothesis as to why people vote for shit like Brexit, or political parties that prioritise oil company profits over tackling climate change, or for political parties that exist to sew division and hate?
"
Yes, it's called free will. |
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"Sicknote Britain. Very difficult to see a GP. Lengthy hospital waiting lists. So if you have a genuine ailment what can you do. The problem with our country is we have large amounts of people in every town and city who are uneducated and unskilled. These people tend to be unfit, unhealthy and way overweight. They lack ambition As a result they probably are better off on benefits. More needs to be invested in education from a very young age to give everyone chances and choices in life. We need more discipline and better law and order. All of this will help the UK to be a successful country.
Very valid point re education. We have some of the best Universities in the world, yet at the other end of the scale we churn out kids who are barely educated. The question is why. Social? Funding? Class? Genes?
There has been a big rise in anti-intellectualism in the last decade.
"I think the people of this country have had enough of experts" - Michael Gove
100%
That's why it's easier to convince people climate science isn't real, so the government can prioritise oil company's profits. Convince people to unquestioningly vote for shit like Brexit, Conservatives, Reform/BNP/UKIP etc.
Why be so patronising as to suggest people can't evaluate situations and vote accordingly? Just because outcomes doesn't accord with your views doesn't mean people have been coerced.
It's nothing to do with me or my views.
Is there an alternative hypothesis as to why people vote for shit like Brexit, or political parties that prioritise oil company profits over tackling climate change, or for political parties that exist to sew division and hate?
Yes, it's called free will."
So people willingly voted for shit like the above, completely ignoring all the coercion pumped into them from those political parties and from the supporting media. Interesting hypothesis. |
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"Sicknote Britain. Very difficult to see a GP. Lengthy hospital waiting lists. So if you have a genuine ailment what can you do. The problem with our country is we have large amounts of people in every town and city who are uneducated and unskilled. These people tend to be unfit, unhealthy and way overweight. They lack ambition As a result they probably are better off on benefits. More needs to be invested in education from a very young age to give everyone chances and choices in life. We need more discipline and better law and order. All of this will help the UK to be a successful country.
Very valid point re education. We have some of the best Universities in the world, yet at the other end of the scale we churn out kids who are barely educated. The question is why. Social? Funding? Class? Genes?
There has been a big rise in anti-intellectualism in the last decade.
"I think the people of this country have had enough of experts" - Michael Gove
100%
That's why it's easier to convince people climate science isn't real, so the government can prioritise oil company's profits. Convince people to unquestioningly vote for shit like Brexit, Conservatives, Reform/BNP/UKIP etc.
Why be so patronising as to suggest people can't evaluate situations and vote accordingly? Just because outcomes doesn't accord with your views doesn't mean people have been coerced.
It's nothing to do with me or my views.
Is there an alternative hypothesis as to why people vote for shit like Brexit, or political parties that prioritise oil company profits over tackling climate change, or for political parties that exist to sew division and hate?
Yes, it's called free will."
You're wasting your time. There's only one 'truth' here and it isn't yours |
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"Sicknote Britain. Very difficult to see a GP. Lengthy hospital waiting lists. So if you have a genuine ailment what can you do. The problem with our country is we have large amounts of people in every town and city who are uneducated and unskilled. These people tend to be unfit, unhealthy and way overweight. They lack ambition As a result they probably are better off on benefits. More needs to be invested in education from a very young age to give everyone chances and choices in life. We need more discipline and better law and order. All of this will help the UK to be a successful country.
Very valid point re education. We have some of the best Universities in the world, yet at the other end of the scale we churn out kids who are barely educated. The question is why. Social? Funding? Class? Genes?
There has been a big rise in anti-intellectualism in the last decade.
"I think the people of this country have had enough of experts" - Michael Gove
100%
That's why it's easier to convince people climate science isn't real, so the government can prioritise oil company's profits. Convince people to unquestioningly vote for shit like Brexit, Conservatives, Reform/BNP/UKIP etc.
Why be so patronising as to suggest people can't evaluate situations and vote accordingly? Just because outcomes doesn't accord with your views doesn't mean people have been coerced.
It's nothing to do with me or my views.
Is there an alternative hypothesis as to why people vote for shit like Brexit, or political parties that prioritise oil company profits over tackling climate change, or for political parties that exist to sew division and hate?
Yes, it's called free will.
So people willingly voted for shit like the above, completely ignoring all the coercion pumped into them from those political parties and from the supporting media. Interesting hypothesis. "
Comrade the proletariat cannot be trusted with democracy. Power should be vested in the enlightened like you and I. |
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"Sicknote Britain. Very difficult to see a GP. Lengthy hospital waiting lists. So if you have a genuine ailment what can you do. The problem with our country is we have large amounts of people in every town and city who are uneducated and unskilled. These people tend to be unfit, unhealthy and way overweight. They lack ambition As a result they probably are better off on benefits. More needs to be invested in education from a very young age to give everyone chances and choices in life. We need more discipline and better law and order. All of this will help the UK to be a successful country.
Very valid point re education. We have some of the best Universities in the world, yet at the other end of the scale we churn out kids who are barely educated. The question is why. Social? Funding? Class? Genes?
There has been a big rise in anti-intellectualism in the last decade.
"I think the people of this country have had enough of experts" - Michael Gove
100%
That's why it's easier to convince people climate science isn't real, so the government can prioritise oil company's profits. Convince people to unquestioningly vote for shit like Brexit, Conservatives, Reform/BNP/UKIP etc.
Why be so patronising as to suggest people can't evaluate situations and vote accordingly? Just because outcomes doesn't accord with your views doesn't mean people have been coerced.
It's nothing to do with me or my views.
Is there an alternative hypothesis as to why people vote for shit like Brexit, or political parties that prioritise oil company profits over tackling climate change, or for political parties that exist to sew division and hate?
Yes, it's called free will.
So people willingly voted for shit like the above, completely ignoring all the coercion pumped into them from those political parties and from the supporting media. Interesting hypothesis.
Comrade the proletariat cannot be trusted with democracy. Power should be vested in the enlightened like you and I."
Does this sarcasm indicate that you have no further ideas why people don't vote responsibility? |
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"Sicknote Britain. Very difficult to see a GP. Lengthy hospital waiting lists. So if you have a genuine ailment what can you do. The problem with our country is we have large amounts of people in every town and city who are uneducated and unskilled. These people tend to be unfit, unhealthy and way overweight. They lack ambition As a result they probably are better off on benefits. More needs to be invested in education from a very young age to give everyone chances and choices in life. We need more discipline and better law and order. All of this will help the UK to be a successful country.
Very valid point re education. We have some of the best Universities in the world, yet at the other end of the scale we churn out kids who are barely educated. The question is why. Social? Funding? Class? Genes?
There has been a big rise in anti-intellectualism in the last decade.
"I think the people of this country have had enough of experts" - Michael Gove
100%
That's why it's easier to convince people climate science isn't real, so the government can prioritise oil company's profits. Convince people to unquestioningly vote for shit like Brexit, Conservatives, Reform/BNP/UKIP etc.
Why be so patronising as to suggest people can't evaluate situations and vote accordingly? Just because outcomes doesn't accord with your views doesn't mean people have been coerced.
It's nothing to do with me or my views.
Is there an alternative hypothesis as to why people vote for shit like Brexit, or political parties that prioritise oil company profits over tackling climate change, or for political parties that exist to sew division and hate?
"
I voted for Brexit which was a shit show. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Sicknote Britain. Very difficult to see a GP. Lengthy hospital waiting lists. So if you have a genuine ailment what can you do. The problem with our country is we have large amounts of people in every town and city who are uneducated and unskilled. These people tend to be unfit, unhealthy and way overweight. They lack ambition As a result they probably are better off on benefits. More needs to be invested in education from a very young age to give everyone chances and choices in life. We need more discipline and better law and order. All of this will help the UK to be a successful country.
Very valid point re education. We have some of the best Universities in the world, yet at the other end of the scale we churn out kids who are barely educated. The question is why. Social? Funding? Class? Genes?
There has been a big rise in anti-intellectualism in the last decade.
"I think the people of this country have had enough of experts" - Michael Gove
100%
That's why it's easier to convince people climate science isn't real, so the government can prioritise oil company's profits. Convince people to unquestioningly vote for shit like Brexit, Conservatives, Reform/BNP/UKIP etc.
Why be so patronising as to suggest people can't evaluate situations and vote accordingly? Just because outcomes doesn't accord with your views doesn't mean people have been coerced.
It's nothing to do with me or my views.
Is there an alternative hypothesis as to why people vote for shit like Brexit, or political parties that prioritise oil company profits over tackling climate change, or for political parties that exist to sew division and hate?
I voted for Brexit which was a shit show."
It certainly was.
The point is, people don't vote for blatantly shit things at random for no reason. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Sicknote Britain. Very difficult to see a GP. Lengthy hospital waiting lists. So if you have a genuine ailment what can you do. The problem with our country is we have large amounts of people in every town and city who are uneducated and unskilled. These people tend to be unfit, unhealthy and way overweight. They lack ambition As a result they probably are better off on benefits. More needs to be invested in education from a very young age to give everyone chances and choices in life. We need more discipline and better law and order. All of this will help the UK to be a successful country.
Very valid point re education. We have some of the best Universities in the world, yet at the other end of the scale we churn out kids who are barely educated. The question is why. Social? Funding? Class? Genes?
There has been a big rise in anti-intellectualism in the last decade.
"I think the people of this country have had enough of experts" - Michael Gove
100%
That's why it's easier to convince people climate science isn't real, so the government can prioritise oil company's profits. Convince people to unquestioningly vote for shit like Brexit, Conservatives, Reform/BNP/UKIP etc.
Why be so patronising as to suggest people can't evaluate situations and vote accordingly? Just because outcomes doesn't accord with your views doesn't mean people have been coerced.
It's nothing to do with me or my views.
Is there an alternative hypothesis as to why people vote for shit like Brexit, or political parties that prioritise oil company profits over tackling climate change, or for political parties that exist to sew division and hate?
I voted for Brexit which was a shit show.
It certainly was.
The point is, people don't vote for blatantly shit things at random for no reason. "
It being a shit thing shows your opinion. You're a remainer. You voted one way, I the other. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
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"Sicknote Britain. Very difficult to see a GP. Lengthy hospital waiting lists. So if you have a genuine ailment what can you do. The problem with our country is we have large amounts of people in every town and city who are uneducated and unskilled. These people tend to be unfit, unhealthy and way overweight. They lack ambition As a result they probably are better off on benefits. More needs to be invested in education from a very young age to give everyone chances and choices in life. We need more discipline and better law and order. All of this will help the UK to be a successful country.
Very valid point re education. We have some of the best Universities in the world, yet at the other end of the scale we churn out kids who are barely educated. The question is why. Social? Funding? Class? Genes?
There has been a big rise in anti-intellectualism in the last decade.
"I think the people of this country have had enough of experts" - Michael Gove
100%
That's why it's easier to convince people climate science isn't real, so the government can prioritise oil company's profits. Convince people to unquestioningly vote for shit like Brexit, Conservatives, Reform/BNP/UKIP etc.
Why be so patronising as to suggest people can't evaluate situations and vote accordingly? Just because outcomes doesn't accord with your views doesn't mean people have been coerced.
It's nothing to do with me or my views.
Is there an alternative hypothesis as to why people vote for shit like Brexit, or political parties that prioritise oil company profits over tackling climate change, or for political parties that exist to sew division and hate?
I voted for Brexit which was a shit show.
It certainly was.
The point is, people don't vote for blatantly shit things at random for no reason. "
You've answered your own question there - it's precisely the point that people don't make random 'shit' decisions. They had reasons to vote for Brexit - you just don't want to acknowledge nor understand them. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Sicknote Britain. Very difficult to see a GP. Lengthy hospital waiting lists. So if you have a genuine ailment what can you do. The problem with our country is we have large amounts of people in every town and city who are uneducated and unskilled. These people tend to be unfit, unhealthy and way overweight. They lack ambition As a result they probably are better off on benefits. More needs to be invested in education from a very young age to give everyone chances and choices in life. We need more discipline and better law and order. All of this will help the UK to be a successful country.
Very valid point re education. We have some of the best Universities in the world, yet at the other end of the scale we churn out kids who are barely educated. The question is why. Social? Funding? Class? Genes?
There has been a big rise in anti-intellectualism in the last decade.
"I think the people of this country have had enough of experts" - Michael Gove
100%
That's why it's easier to convince people climate science isn't real, so the government can prioritise oil company's profits. Convince people to unquestioningly vote for shit like Brexit, Conservatives, Reform/BNP/UKIP etc.
Why be so patronising as to suggest people can't evaluate situations and vote accordingly? Just because outcomes doesn't accord with your views doesn't mean people have been coerced.
It's nothing to do with me or my views.
Is there an alternative hypothesis as to why people vote for shit like Brexit, or political parties that prioritise oil company profits over tackling climate change, or for political parties that exist to sew division and hate?
I voted for Brexit which was a shit show.
It certainly was.
The point is, people don't vote for blatantly shit things at random for no reason.
It being a shit thing shows your opinion. You're a remainer. You voted one way, I the other. "
You just said it was a "shit show".
Besides, this has nothing to do with my opinion. Brexit is cut and dry, demonstrably shit by every measure. No benefits for the UK at all, and a list of down sides as long as your arm. Exactly as expected. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Sicknote Britain. Very difficult to see a GP. Lengthy hospital waiting lists. So if you have a genuine ailment what can you do. The problem with our country is we have large amounts of people in every town and city who are uneducated and unskilled. These people tend to be unfit, unhealthy and way overweight. They lack ambition As a result they probably are better off on benefits. More needs to be invested in education from a very young age to give everyone chances and choices in life. We need more discipline and better law and order. All of this will help the UK to be a successful country.
Very valid point re education. We have some of the best Universities in the world, yet at the other end of the scale we churn out kids who are barely educated. The question is why. Social? Funding? Class? Genes?
There has been a big rise in anti-intellectualism in the last decade.
"I think the people of this country have had enough of experts" - Michael Gove
100%
That's why it's easier to convince people climate science isn't real, so the government can prioritise oil company's profits. Convince people to unquestioningly vote for shit like Brexit, Conservatives, Reform/BNP/UKIP etc.
Why be so patronising as to suggest people can't evaluate situations and vote accordingly? Just because outcomes doesn't accord with your views doesn't mean people have been coerced.
It's nothing to do with me or my views.
Is there an alternative hypothesis as to why people vote for shit like Brexit, or political parties that prioritise oil company profits over tackling climate change, or for political parties that exist to sew division and hate?
I voted for Brexit which was a shit show.
It certainly was.
The point is, people don't vote for blatantly shit things at random for no reason.
You've answered your own question there - it's precisely the point that people don't make random 'shit' decisions. They had reasons to vote for Brexit - you just don't want to acknowledge nor understand them. "
I have suggested reasons why, that's my entire point. But you haven't, you just keep trying to make it about me.
Feel free to suggest why people vote for any of the nonsense that's demonstrably against their own interests. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Sicknote Britain. Very difficult to see a GP. Lengthy hospital waiting lists. So if you have a genuine ailment what can you do. The problem with our country is we have large amounts of people in every town and city who are uneducated and unskilled. These people tend to be unfit, unhealthy and way overweight. They lack ambition As a result they probably are better off on benefits. More needs to be invested in education from a very young age to give everyone chances and choices in life. We need more discipline and better law and order. All of this will help the UK to be a successful country.
Very valid point re education. We have some of the best Universities in the world, yet at the other end of the scale we churn out kids who are barely educated. The question is why. Social? Funding? Class? Genes?
There has been a big rise in anti-intellectualism in the last decade.
"I think the people of this country have had enough of experts" - Michael Gove
100%
That's why it's easier to convince people climate science isn't real, so the government can prioritise oil company's profits. Convince people to unquestioningly vote for shit like Brexit, Conservatives, Reform/BNP/UKIP etc.
Why be so patronising as to suggest people can't evaluate situations and vote accordingly? Just because outcomes doesn't accord with your views doesn't mean people have been coerced.
It's nothing to do with me or my views.
Is there an alternative hypothesis as to why people vote for shit like Brexit, or political parties that prioritise oil company profits over tackling climate change, or for political parties that exist to sew division and hate?
I voted for Brexit which was a shit show.
It certainly was.
The point is, people don't vote for blatantly shit things at random for no reason.
You've answered your own question there - it's precisely the point that people don't make random 'shit' decisions. They had reasons to vote for Brexit - you just don't want to acknowledge nor understand them.
I have suggested reasons why, that's my entire point. But you haven't, you just keep trying to make it about me.
Feel free to suggest why people vote for any of the nonsense that's demonstrably against their own interests."
You've missed the point (again). It's only 'nonsense' because that's your opinion. So you impose your yardstick to everything and everybody. People, and especially voters, are entitled to beliefs other than yours. You know perfectly well why people voted for Brexit - it's been discussed ad nauseum. You just can't accept it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Sicknote Britain. Very difficult to see a GP. Lengthy hospital waiting lists. So if you have a genuine ailment what can you do. The problem with our country is we have large amounts of people in every town and city who are uneducated and unskilled. These people tend to be unfit, unhealthy and way overweight. They lack ambition As a result they probably are better off on benefits. More needs to be invested in education from a very young age to give everyone chances and choices in life. We need more discipline and better law and order. All of this will help the UK to be a successful country.
Very valid point re education. We have some of the best Universities in the world, yet at the other end of the scale we churn out kids who are barely educated. The question is why. Social? Funding? Class? Genes?
There has been a big rise in anti-intellectualism in the last decade.
"I think the people of this country have had enough of experts" - Michael Gove
100%
That's why it's easier to convince people climate science isn't real, so the government can prioritise oil company's profits. Convince people to unquestioningly vote for shit like Brexit, Conservatives, Reform/BNP/UKIP etc.
Why be so patronising as to suggest people can't evaluate situations and vote accordingly? Just because outcomes doesn't accord with your views doesn't mean people have been coerced.
It's nothing to do with me or my views.
Is there an alternative hypothesis as to why people vote for shit like Brexit, or political parties that prioritise oil company profits over tackling climate change, or for political parties that exist to sew division and hate?
I voted for Brexit which was a shit show.
It certainly was.
The point is, people don't vote for blatantly shit things at random for no reason.
It being a shit thing shows your opinion. You're a remainer. You voted one way, I the other.
You just said it was a "shit show".
Besides, this has nothing to do with my opinion. Brexit is cut and dry, demonstrably shit by every measure. No benefits for the UK at all, and a list of down sides as long as your arm. Exactly as expected. "
The shit show was caused by a government who, in their arrogance assuming the referendum would result in remain, made no preparations to leave. The shit show was caused by a govt who didn't want Brexit and took too long to get the best deal.
The idea behind Brexit, as in having control over our borders (no sniggering at the back) and to stop the continuous clawing of control by the EU, nothing wrong with that. |
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"Sicknote Britain. Very difficult to see a GP. Lengthy hospital waiting lists. So if you have a genuine ailment what can you do. The problem with our country is we have large amounts of people in every town and city who are uneducated and unskilled. These people tend to be unfit, unhealthy and way overweight. They lack ambition As a result they probably are better off on benefits. More needs to be invested in education from a very young age to give everyone chances and choices in life. We need more discipline and better law and order. All of this will help the UK to be a successful country.
Very valid point re education. We have some of the best Universities in the world, yet at the other end of the scale we churn out kids who are barely educated. The question is why. Social? Funding? Class? Genes?
There has been a big rise in anti-intellectualism in the last decade.
"I think the people of this country have had enough of experts" - Michael Gove
100%
That's why it's easier to convince people climate science isn't real, so the government can prioritise oil company's profits. Convince people to unquestioningly vote for shit like Brexit, Conservatives, Reform/BNP/UKIP etc.
Why be so patronising as to suggest people can't evaluate situations and vote accordingly? Just because outcomes doesn't accord with your views doesn't mean people have been coerced.
It's nothing to do with me or my views.
Is there an alternative hypothesis as to why people vote for shit like Brexit, or political parties that prioritise oil company profits over tackling climate change, or for political parties that exist to sew division and hate?
I voted for Brexit which was a shit show.
It certainly was.
The point is, people don't vote for blatantly shit things at random for no reason.
It being a shit thing shows your opinion. You're a remainer. You voted one way, I the other.
You just said it was a "shit show".
Besides, this has nothing to do with my opinion. Brexit is cut and dry, demonstrably shit by every measure. No benefits for the UK at all, and a list of down sides as long as your arm. Exactly as expected.
The shit show was caused by a government who, in their arrogance assuming the referendum would result in remain, made no preparations to leave. The shit show was caused by a govt who didn't want Brexit and took too long to get the best deal.
The idea behind Brexit, as in having control over our borders (no sniggering at the back) and to stop the continuous clawing of control by the EU, nothing wrong with that."
I did watch a news item where Sunak was trying to hammer a nail into s piece of wood..
Haha..  |
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"Sicknote Britain. Very difficult to see a GP. Lengthy hospital waiting lists. So if you have a genuine ailment what can you do. The problem with our country is we have large amounts of people in every town and city who are uneducated and unskilled. These people tend to be unfit, unhealthy and way overweight. They lack ambition As a result they probably are better off on benefits. More needs to be invested in education from a very young age to give everyone chances and choices in life. We need more discipline and better law and order. All of this will help the UK to be a successful country.
Very valid point re education. We have some of the best Universities in the world, yet at the other end of the scale we churn out kids who are barely educated. The question is why. Social? Funding? Class? Genes?
There has been a big rise in anti-intellectualism in the last decade.
"I think the people of this country have had enough of experts" - Michael Gove
100%
That's why it's easier to convince people climate science isn't real, so the government can prioritise oil company's profits. Convince people to unquestioningly vote for shit like Brexit, Conservatives, Reform/BNP/UKIP etc.
Why be so patronising as to suggest people can't evaluate situations and vote accordingly? Just because outcomes doesn't accord with your views doesn't mean people have been coerced.
It's nothing to do with me or my views.
Is there an alternative hypothesis as to why people vote for shit like Brexit, or political parties that prioritise oil company profits over tackling climate change, or for political parties that exist to sew division and hate?
I voted for Brexit which was a shit show.
It certainly was.
The point is, people don't vote for blatantly shit things at random for no reason.
You've answered your own question there - it's precisely the point that people don't make random 'shit' decisions. They had reasons to vote for Brexit - you just don't want to acknowledge nor understand them.
I have suggested reasons why, that's my entire point. But you haven't, you just keep trying to make it about me.
Feel free to suggest why people vote for any of the nonsense that's demonstrably against their own interests.
You've missed the point (again). It's only 'nonsense' because that's your opinion. So you impose your yardstick to everything and everybody. People, and especially voters, are entitled to beliefs other than yours. You know perfectly well why people voted for Brexit - it's been discussed ad nauseum. You just can't accept it. "
Once again, it's nothing to do with me or my views/opinions.
I can accept that they voted because they believed some misinformation or other.
|
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"Sicknote Britain. Very difficult to see a GP. Lengthy hospital waiting lists. So if you have a genuine ailment what can you do. The problem with our country is we have large amounts of people in every town and city who are uneducated and unskilled. These people tend to be unfit, unhealthy and way overweight. They lack ambition As a result they probably are better off on benefits. More needs to be invested in education from a very young age to give everyone chances and choices in life. We need more discipline and better law and order. All of this will help the UK to be a successful country.
Very valid point re education. We have some of the best Universities in the world, yet at the other end of the scale we churn out kids who are barely educated. The question is why. Social? Funding? Class? Genes?
There has been a big rise in anti-intellectualism in the last decade.
"I think the people of this country have had enough of experts" - Michael Gove
100%
That's why it's easier to convince people climate science isn't real, so the government can prioritise oil company's profits. Convince people to unquestioningly vote for shit like Brexit, Conservatives, Reform/BNP/UKIP etc.
Why be so patronising as to suggest people can't evaluate situations and vote accordingly? Just because outcomes doesn't accord with your views doesn't mean people have been coerced.
It's nothing to do with me or my views.
Is there an alternative hypothesis as to why people vote for shit like Brexit, or political parties that prioritise oil company profits over tackling climate change, or for political parties that exist to sew division and hate?
I voted for Brexit which was a shit show.
It certainly was.
The point is, people don't vote for blatantly shit things at random for no reason.
You've answered your own question there - it's precisely the point that people don't make random 'shit' decisions. They had reasons to vote for Brexit - you just don't want to acknowledge nor understand them.
I have suggested reasons why, that's my entire point. But you haven't, you just keep trying to make it about me.
Feel free to suggest why people vote for any of the nonsense that's demonstrably against their own interests.
You've missed the point (again). It's only 'nonsense' because that's your opinion. So you impose your yardstick to everything and everybody. People, and especially voters, are entitled to beliefs other than yours. You know perfectly well why people voted for Brexit - it's been discussed ad nauseum. You just can't accept it.
Once again, it's nothing to do with me or my views/opinions.
I can accept that they voted because they believed some misinformation or other.
"
This is a Forum. We all get to post our views/opinions. So yes, it is about precisely that. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
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"Sicknote Britain. Very difficult to see a GP. Lengthy hospital waiting lists. So if you have a genuine ailment what can you do. The problem with our country is we have large amounts of people in every town and city who are uneducated and unskilled. These people tend to be unfit, unhealthy and way overweight. They lack ambition As a result they probably are better off on benefits. More needs to be invested in education from a very young age to give everyone chances and choices in life. We need more discipline and better law and order. All of this will help the UK to be a successful country.
Very valid point re education. We have some of the best Universities in the world, yet at the other end of the scale we churn out kids who are barely educated. The question is why. Social? Funding? Class? Genes?
There has been a big rise in anti-intellectualism in the last decade.
"I think the people of this country have had enough of experts" - Michael Gove
100%
That's why it's easier to convince people climate science isn't real, so the government can prioritise oil company's profits. Convince people to unquestioningly vote for shit like Brexit, Conservatives, Reform/BNP/UKIP etc.
Why be so patronising as to suggest people can't evaluate situations and vote accordingly? Just because outcomes doesn't accord with your views doesn't mean people have been coerced.
It's nothing to do with me or my views.
Is there an alternative hypothesis as to why people vote for shit like Brexit, or political parties that prioritise oil company profits over tackling climate change, or for political parties that exist to sew division and hate?
I voted for Brexit which was a shit show.
It certainly was.
The point is, people don't vote for blatantly shit things at random for no reason.
You've answered your own question there - it's precisely the point that people don't make random 'shit' decisions. They had reasons to vote for Brexit - you just don't want to acknowledge nor understand them.
I have suggested reasons why, that's my entire point. But you haven't, you just keep trying to make it about me.
Feel free to suggest why people vote for any of the nonsense that's demonstrably against their own interests.
You've missed the point (again). It's only 'nonsense' because that's your opinion. So you impose your yardstick to everything and everybody. People, and especially voters, are entitled to beliefs other than yours. You know perfectly well why people voted for Brexit - it's been discussed ad nauseum. You just can't accept it.
Once again, it's nothing to do with me or my views/opinions.
I can accept that they voted because they believed some misinformation or other.
This is a Forum. We all get to post our views/opinions. So yes, it is about precisely that."
This is how a forum works yes.
But opinion isn't fact. You can have an opinion that the moon is made of cheese, climate science isn't real, Brexit is good for the UK. Unless there is any evidence, then the opinions aren't especially interesting. |
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"Sicknote Britain. Very difficult to see a GP. Lengthy hospital waiting lists. So if you have a genuine ailment what can you do. The problem with our country is we have large amounts of people in every town and city who are uneducated and unskilled. These people tend to be unfit, unhealthy and way overweight. They lack ambition As a result they probably are better off on benefits. More needs to be invested in education from a very young age to give everyone chances and choices in life. We need more discipline and better law and order. All of this will help the UK to be a successful country.
Very valid point re education. We have some of the best Universities in the world, yet at the other end of the scale we churn out kids who are barely educated. The question is why. Social? Funding? Class? Genes?
There has been a big rise in anti-intellectualism in the last decade.
"I think the people of this country have had enough of experts" - Michael Gove
100%
That's why it's easier to convince people climate science isn't real, so the government can prioritise oil company's profits. Convince people to unquestioningly vote for shit like Brexit, Conservatives, Reform/BNP/UKIP etc.
Why be so patronising as to suggest people can't evaluate situations and vote accordingly? Just because outcomes doesn't accord with your views doesn't mean people have been coerced.
It's nothing to do with me or my views.
Is there an alternative hypothesis as to why people vote for shit like Brexit, or political parties that prioritise oil company profits over tackling climate change, or for political parties that exist to sew division and hate?
I voted for Brexit which was a shit show.
It certainly was.
The point is, people don't vote for blatantly shit things at random for no reason.
You've answered your own question there - it's precisely the point that people don't make random 'shit' decisions. They had reasons to vote for Brexit - you just don't want to acknowledge nor understand them.
I have suggested reasons why, that's my entire point. But you haven't, you just keep trying to make it about me.
Feel free to suggest why people vote for any of the nonsense that's demonstrably against their own interests.
You've missed the point (again). It's only 'nonsense' because that's your opinion. So you impose your yardstick to everything and everybody. People, and especially voters, are entitled to beliefs other than yours. You know perfectly well why people voted for Brexit - it's been discussed ad nauseum. You just can't accept it.
Once again, it's nothing to do with me or my views/opinions.
I can accept that they voted because they believed some misinformation or other.
"
. Your comment is bizarre. During the referendum everyone was presented with facts from numerous different sources. The electorate then examined these facts and figures and voted accordingly. A true exercise in democracy. |
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It was a democratic vote which Cameron only agreed to because the government never in a million years thought the result would be leave. An that's how our of touch these morons are and their advisors... |
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"Sicknote Britain. Very difficult to see a GP. Lengthy hospital waiting lists. So if you have a genuine ailment what can you do. The problem with our country is we have large amounts of people in every town and city who are uneducated and unskilled. These people tend to be unfit, unhealthy and way overweight. They lack ambition As a result they probably are better off on benefits. More needs to be invested in education from a very young age to give everyone chances and choices in life. We need more discipline and better law and order. All of this will help the UK to be a successful country.
Very valid point re education. We have some of the best Universities in the world, yet at the other end of the scale we churn out kids who are barely educated. The question is why. Social? Funding? Class? Genes?
There has been a big rise in anti-intellectualism in the last decade.
"I think the people of this country have had enough of experts" - Michael Gove
100%
That's why it's easier to convince people climate science isn't real, so the government can prioritise oil company's profits. Convince people to unquestioningly vote for shit like Brexit, Conservatives, Reform/BNP/UKIP etc.
Why be so patronising as to suggest people can't evaluate situations and vote accordingly? Just because outcomes doesn't accord with your views doesn't mean people have been coerced.
It's nothing to do with me or my views.
Is there an alternative hypothesis as to why people vote for shit like Brexit, or political parties that prioritise oil company profits over tackling climate change, or for political parties that exist to sew division and hate?
I voted for Brexit which was a shit show.
It certainly was.
The point is, people don't vote for blatantly shit things at random for no reason.
You've answered your own question there - it's precisely the point that people don't make random 'shit' decisions. They had reasons to vote for Brexit - you just don't want to acknowledge nor understand them.
I have suggested reasons why, that's my entire point. But you haven't, you just keep trying to make it about me.
Feel free to suggest why people vote for any of the nonsense that's demonstrably against their own interests.
You've missed the point (again). It's only 'nonsense' because that's your opinion. So you impose your yardstick to everything and everybody. People, and especially voters, are entitled to beliefs other than yours. You know perfectly well why people voted for Brexit - it's been discussed ad nauseum. You just can't accept it.
Once again, it's nothing to do with me or my views/opinions.
I can accept that they voted because they believed some misinformation or other.
. Your comment is bizarre. During the referendum everyone was presented with facts from numerous different sources. The electorate then examined these facts and figures and voted accordingly. A true exercise in democracy. "
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I'm self employed; if I don't work I don't eat. In the last 30yrs I've probably been to sick to work about 10 days.
This is not about "lucky me" or anything like that just my personal experience.
(mr) |
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"Why on earth this government can't try and bring people together instead of trying to demonise certain sections of society and create larger and wider divisions I do not know. It's almost as if they have lost control of everything and are thrashing, desperately around trying to find solutions to problems they don't really understand.
Do they think doctors just issue fitness to work certificates willy nilly. Do they think you can even see a doctor to get one?"
because its all they have they are totaly out of ideas just dogma and dogwhistle politics to try to cling on to what support they have devide and conquer |
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"Why on earth this government can't try and bring people together instead of trying to demonise certain sections of society and create larger and wider divisions I do not know. It's almost as if they have lost control of everything and are thrashing, desperately around trying to find solutions to problems they don't really understand.
Do they think doctors just issue fitness to work certificates willy nilly. Do they think you can even see a doctor to get one?because its all they have they are totaly out of ideas just dogma and dogwhistle politics to try to cling on to what support they have devide and conquer "
Sicknote culture is independent of politics - people will do it regardless. But sickness absence has jumped to the highest level in decades. The government are obliged to monitor statistical trends and act if they consider it necessary. That's why we elect them. |
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"
Sicknote culture is independent of politics - "
They will sure as hell use it as a tool for distraction and division.
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are causing your problems' |
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I for one am stunned that when the NHS is underfunded, waiting lists are at an all time high, mental health provision is woefully inadequate, the demands on GPs are growing at a rate that is unmanageable, and a year or so out of a pandemic which we don’t know how has affected people long term, that more people are off sick.
Truly it’s a mystery. |
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By *CBoyTV/TS 6 days ago
Penygraig |
I think most people get better before they can get a GP appointment to get a sick note these days ! It used to be you could self certify for a week because of this . Probably need to increase self certification to 14 days now. |
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I'm off sick again. Got a fit note without a problem.
My issue is that I work to the full capacity of my brain. If "you" did the same you'd have to work 7/7 days. It's unsustainable. But I suppose that makes me a leech? |
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"I'm off sick again. Got a fit note without a problem.
My issue is that I work to the full capacity of my brain. If "you" did the same you'd have to work 7/7 days. It's unsustainable. But I suppose that makes me a leech?"
Why aren’t you thankful for what you have? You’ll be expecting so called “reasonable adjustments” next, all paid for by the taxpayer etc. |
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"
Sicknote culture is independent of politics -
They will sure as hell use it as a tool for distraction and division.
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are causing your problems'"
But what if you modified it slighly to:
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are embezzling public finances' That's a reasonable gripe, no?
|
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"I'm off sick again. Got a fit note without a problem.
My issue is that I work to the full capacity of my brain. If "you" did the same you'd have to work 7/7 days. It's unsustainable. But I suppose that makes me a leech?
Why aren’t you thankful for what you have? You’ll be expecting so called “reasonable adjustments” next, all paid for by the taxpayer etc."
I have them but a third is paid by my employer |
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"
Sicknote culture is independent of politics -
They will sure as hell use it as a tool for distraction and division.
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are causing your problems'
But what if you modified it slighly to:
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are embezzling public finances' That's a reasonable gripe, no?
"
Actually there are some of us whose employer pays us sick pay. And oh that proves I'm not a leech . I'm happy now. |
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"
Sicknote culture is independent of politics -
They will sure as hell use it as a tool for distraction and division.
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are causing your problems'
But what if you modified it slighly to:
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are embezzling public finances' That's a reasonable gripe, no?
"
Best make things harder for people who need assistance, just in case then. |
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"
Sicknote culture is independent of politics -
They will sure as hell use it as a tool for distraction and division.
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are causing your problems'
But what if you modified it slighly to:
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are embezzling public finances' That's a reasonable gripe, no?
Best make things harder for people who need assistance, just in case then."
Nobody is suggesting that. But can't you see that it makes it harder to assist the worthy if the system is being abused by the unscrupulous? Why do you see ing out benefits cheats as such a bad thing? |
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"
Sicknote culture is independent of politics -
They will sure as hell use it as a tool for distraction and division.
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are causing your problems'
But what if you modified it slighly to:
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are embezzling public finances' That's a reasonable gripe, no?
Best make things harder for people who need assistance, just in case then.
Nobody is suggesting that. But can't you see that it makes it harder to assist the worthy if the system is being abused by the unscrupulous? Why do you see ing out benefits cheats as such a bad thing?"
The government is using a sledgehammer to crack a nut though. They aren’t ‘ing out’ benefits cheats, they are making it more difficult for anyone to get benefits. Meaning that people with disabilities have to jump through more and more hoops to get what they are entitled to. |
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"
Sicknote culture is independent of politics -
They will sure as hell use it as a tool for distraction and division.
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are causing your problems'
But what if you modified it slighly to:
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are embezzling public finances' That's a reasonable gripe, no?
Best make things harder for people who need assistance, just in case then.
Nobody is suggesting that. But can't you see that it makes it harder to assist the worthy if the system is being abused by the unscrupulous? Why do you see ing out benefits cheats as such a bad thing?
The government is using a sledgehammer to crack a nut though. They aren’t ‘ing out’ benefits cheats, they are making it more difficult for anyone to get benefits. Meaning that people with disabilities have to jump through more and more hoops to get what they are entitled to."
Sadly yes. |
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"
Sicknote culture is independent of politics -
They will sure as hell use it as a tool for distraction and division.
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are causing your problems'
But what if you modified it slighly to:
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are embezzling public finances' That's a reasonable gripe, no?
Best make things harder for people who need assistance, just in case then.
Nobody is suggesting that. But can't you see that it makes it harder to assist the worthy if the system is being abused by the unscrupulous? Why do you see ing out benefits cheats as such a bad thing?
The government is using a sledgehammer to crack a nut though. They aren’t ‘ing out’ benefits cheats, they are making it more difficult for anyone to get benefits. Meaning that people with disabilities have to jump through more and more hoops to get what they are entitled to."
. There are 3.5 million people receiving some form of disability benefit . Anyone receiving benefits welcomes the crackdown and we only want to see it going to those genuinely entitled. Any benefit is funded by taxpayers , most of whom welcome a crack down on fraudulent claims. |
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By *I TwoCouple 6 days ago
all around |
"
Sicknote culture is independent of politics -
They will sure as hell use it as a tool for distraction and division.
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are causing your problems'
But what if you modified it slighly to:
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are embezzling public finances' That's a reasonable gripe, no?
Best make things harder for people who need assistance, just in case then."
At least there will be some left for those that really need it, the money tree hasn't bloomed this year |
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"
Sicknote culture is independent of politics -
They will sure as hell use it as a tool for distraction and division.
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are causing your problems'
But what if you modified it slighly to:
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are embezzling public finances' That's a reasonable gripe, no?
Best make things harder for people who need assistance, just in case then.
At least there will be some left for those that really need it, the money tree hasn't bloomed this year"
Assessments set you up to fail |
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"
Sicknote culture is independent of politics -
They will sure as hell use it as a tool for distraction and division.
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are causing your problems'
But what if you modified it slighly to:
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are embezzling public finances' That's a reasonable gripe, no?
Best make things harder for people who need assistance, just in case then.
At least there will be some left for those that really need it, the money tree hasn't bloomed this year
Assessments set you up to fail"
100% this.
“Can you walk 100 metres?”
“Yes”
“You’re fit for work”
“It takes me an hour and I can’t move from 3 hours afterwards because I’m in so much pain”
“That doesn’t matter, you can walk 100 metres, you’re fit for work” |
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"
Sicknote culture is independent of politics -
They will sure as hell use it as a tool for distraction and division.
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are causing your problems'
But what if you modified it slighly to:
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are embezzling public finances' That's a reasonable gripe, no?
Best make things harder for people who need assistance, just in case then.
At least there will be some left for those that really need it, the money tree hasn't bloomed this year
Assessments set you up to fail
100% this.
“Can you walk 100 metres?”
“Yes”
“You’re fit for work”
“It takes me an hour and I can’t move from 3 hours afterwards because I’m in so much pain”
“That doesn’t matter, you can walk 100 metres, you’re fit for work”"
The capability to work assessment: can you put food to your mouth? Yes. You can work. But so can babies and those with end stage dementia and end of life - have they got to work also? |
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"
Sicknote culture is independent of politics -
They will sure as hell use it as a tool for distraction and division.
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are causing your problems'
But what if you modified it slighly to:
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are embezzling public finances' That's a reasonable gripe, no?
Best make things harder for people who need assistance, just in case then.
At least there will be some left for those that really need it, the money tree hasn't bloomed this year
Assessments set you up to fail
100% this.
“Can you walk 100 metres?”
“Yes”
“You’re fit for work”
“It takes me an hour and I can’t move from 3 hours afterwards because I’m in so much pain”
“That doesn’t matter, you can walk 100 metres, you’re fit for work”
The capability to work assessment: can you put food to your mouth? Yes. You can work. But so can babies and those with end stage dementia and end of life - have they got to work also?"
It’s very easy to tell the people who have never been through a capability to work assessment, or aren’t close to someone who has. |
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"
Sicknote culture is independent of politics -
They will sure as hell use it as a tool for distraction and division.
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are causing your problems'
But what if you modified it slighly to:
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are embezzling public finances' That's a reasonable gripe, no?
Best make things harder for people who need assistance, just in case then.
At least there will be some left for those that really need it, the money tree hasn't bloomed this year
Assessments set you up to fail
100% this.
“Can you walk 100 metres?”
“Yes”
“You’re fit for work”
“It takes me an hour and I can’t move from 3 hours afterwards because I’m in so much pain”
“That doesn’t matter, you can walk 100 metres, you’re fit for work”
The capability to work assessment: can you put food to your mouth? Yes. You can work. But so can babies and those with end stage dementia and end of life - have they got to work also?
It’s very easy to tell the people who have never been through a capability to work assessment, or aren’t close to someone who has."
Before I had the assessment, I naively thought it would classify you to the actual capacity. No, it's a yes or no answer. They don't give a flying fuck that your capacity might be very much reduced. I never understood the rationale behind the question I used as an example. |
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"
Sicknote culture is independent of politics -
They will sure as hell use it as a tool for distraction and division.
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are causing your problems'
But what if you modified it slighly to:
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are embezzling public finances' That's a reasonable gripe, no?
Best make things harder for people who need assistance, just in case then.
At least there will be some left for those that really need it, the money tree hasn't bloomed this year
Assessments set you up to fail
100% this.
“Can you walk 100 metres?”
“Yes”
“You’re fit for work”
“It takes me an hour and I can’t move from 3 hours afterwards because I’m in so much pain”
“That doesn’t matter, you can walk 100 metres, you’re fit for work”
The capability to work assessment: can you put food to your mouth? Yes. You can work. But so can babies and those with end stage dementia and end of life - have they got to work also?
It’s very easy to tell the people who have never been through a capability to work assessment, or aren’t close to someone who has.
Before I had the assessment, I naively thought it would classify you to the actual capacity. No, it's a yes or no answer. They don't give a flying fuck that your capacity might be very much reduced. I never understood the rationale behind the question I used as an example."
When people say that it’s easy to get PIP and sickness benefits it’s so obvious that they’ve no experience of it whatsoever, it’s a horrible degrading system that, as you rightly say, is designed to prevent people getting the support they require. That people are demanding it become even more restrictive shows either complete ignorance of the process, a total lack of empathy, or a belief that people with disabilities are somehow lesser than able bodied people. |
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or View forums list | |
"
Sicknote culture is independent of politics -
They will sure as hell use it as a tool for distraction and division.
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are causing your problems'
But what if you modified it slighly to:
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are embezzling public finances' That's a reasonable gripe, no?
Best make things harder for people who need assistance, just in case then.
At least there will be some left for those that really need it, the money tree hasn't bloomed this year
Assessments set you up to fail
100% this.
“Can you walk 100 metres?”
“Yes”
“You’re fit for work”
“It takes me an hour and I can’t move from 3 hours afterwards because I’m in so much pain”
“That doesn’t matter, you can walk 100 metres, you’re fit for work”
The capability to work assessment: can you put food to your mouth? Yes. You can work. But so can babies and those with end stage dementia and end of life - have they got to work also?
It’s very easy to tell the people who have never been through a capability to work assessment, or aren’t close to someone who has.
Before I had the assessment, I naively thought it would classify you to the actual capacity. No, it's a yes or no answer. They don't give a flying fuck that your capacity might be very much reduced. I never understood the rationale behind the question I used as an example.
When people say that it’s easy to get PIP and sickness benefits it’s so obvious that they’ve no experience of it whatsoever, it’s a horrible degrading system that, as you rightly say, is designed to prevent people getting the support they require. That people are demanding it become even more restrictive shows either complete ignorance of the process, a total lack of empathy, or a belief that people with disabilities are somehow lesser than able bodied people."
. Your comment is far removed from reality and shows a very ungrateful attitude towards the extensive help provided by the government. Statistics do not support your opinion. There are over. 3.5 million on PIP.
I have filled in the forms on behalf of a third party. It took me two days to complete and sailed straight through .
Some of the comments you hear at tribunals are very interesting. There are some very entitled people. |
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Tom worked alongside a person who worked two and a half days a week and the rest of her income made up with universal credit. This person refused to work any extra to cover sickness and annual leave because it would impact her benefits. She was more than capable of working full time. |
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I presume pip is the same as the old dla?
Many years ago, I had an industrial accident leaving me unable to work for a while, filled out the forms and was refused twice. In the end a social worker helped me fill out the forms and after a tribunal received dla, until I was well enough to get back to work. Whole experience wasn't pleasant but the extra payments helped at the time.
What people don't realise is the giving the amount of correct information on how it affects your day to day living rather then an xray as evidence etc |
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"
Sicknote culture is independent of politics -
They will sure as hell use it as a tool for distraction and division.
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are causing your problems'
But what if you modified it slighly to:
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are embezzling public finances' That's a reasonable gripe, no?
Best make things harder for people who need assistance, just in case then.
At least there will be some left for those that really need it, the money tree hasn't bloomed this year
Assessments set you up to fail
100% this.
“Can you walk 100 metres?”
“Yes”
“You’re fit for work”
“It takes me an hour and I can’t move from 3 hours afterwards because I’m in so much pain”
“That doesn’t matter, you can walk 100 metres, you’re fit for work”
The capability to work assessment: can you put food to your mouth? Yes. You can work. But so can babies and those with end stage dementia and end of life - have they got to work also?
It’s very easy to tell the people who have never been through a capability to work assessment, or aren’t close to someone who has.
Before I had the assessment, I naively thought it would classify you to the actual capacity. No, it's a yes or no answer. They don't give a flying fuck that your capacity might be very much reduced. I never understood the rationale behind the question I used as an example.
When people say that it’s easy to get PIP and sickness benefits it’s so obvious that they’ve no experience of it whatsoever, it’s a horrible degrading system that, as you rightly say, is designed to prevent people getting the support they require. That people are demanding it become even more restrictive shows either complete ignorance of the process, a total lack of empathy, or a belief that people with disabilities are somehow lesser than able bodied people."
Yep.
I'm on my second PIP application.  |
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"
Sicknote culture is independent of politics -
They will sure as hell use it as a tool for distraction and division.
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are causing your problems'
But what if you modified it slighly to:
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are embezzling public finances' That's a reasonable gripe, no?
Best make things harder for people who need assistance, just in case then.
At least there will be some left for those that really need it, the money tree hasn't bloomed this year
Assessments set you up to fail
100% this.
“Can you walk 100 metres?”
“Yes”
“You’re fit for work”
“It takes me an hour and I can’t move from 3 hours afterwards because I’m in so much pain”
“That doesn’t matter, you can walk 100 metres, you’re fit for work”
The capability to work assessment: can you put food to your mouth? Yes. You can work. But so can babies and those with end stage dementia and end of life - have they got to work also?
It’s very easy to tell the people who have never been through a capability to work assessment, or aren’t close to someone who has.
Before I had the assessment, I naively thought it would classify you to the actual capacity. No, it's a yes or no answer. They don't give a flying fuck that your capacity might be very much reduced. I never understood the rationale behind the question I used as an example.
When people say that it’s easy to get PIP and sickness benefits it’s so obvious that they’ve no experience of it whatsoever, it’s a horrible degrading system that, as you rightly say, is designed to prevent people getting the support they require. That people are demanding it become even more restrictive shows either complete ignorance of the process, a total lack of empathy, or a belief that people with disabilities are somehow lesser than able bodied people.. Your comment is far removed from reality and shows a very ungrateful attitude towards the extensive help provided by the government. Statistics do not support your opinion. There are over. 3.5 million on PIP.
I have filled in the forms on behalf of a third party. It took me two days to complete and sailed straight through .
Some of the comments you hear at tribunals are very interesting. There are some very entitled people. "
Oh please... Your experience is anecdotal!
The numbers state those who have been successful but not at what stage or those unsuccessful.
|
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"Tom worked alongside a person who worked two and a half days a week and the rest of her income made up with universal credit. This person refused to work any extra to cover sickness and annual leave because it would impact her benefits. She was more than capable of working full time. "
That's irrelevant to your OP. |
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"Tom worked alongside a person who worked two and a half days a week and the rest of her income made up with universal credit. This person refused to work any extra to cover sickness and annual leave because it would impact her benefits. She was more than capable of working full time.
That's irrelevant to your OP."
Not when it's the taxpayer funding this lifestyle. It's very revelant. It's the taxpayer funding this lifestyle. |
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"I presume pip is the same as the old dla?
Many years ago, I had an industrial accident leaving me unable to work for a while, filled out the forms and was refused twice. In the end a social worker helped me fill out the forms and after a tribunal received dla, until I was well enough to get back to work. Whole experience wasn't pleasant but the extra payments helped at the time.
What people don't realise is the giving the amount of correct information on how it affects your day to day living rather then an xray as evidence etc"
Actually it's about the giving of key words - my second application was made with advice from a social services benefits advisor. |
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"When applying for PIP, is it based on the ability to be able to do some kind of work or the ability to do the role or profession you are skilled / employed in?"
No. It's based on the activities of daily living. And mobility. |
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"Tom worked alongside a person who worked two and a half days a week and the rest of her income made up with universal credit. This person refused to work any extra to cover sickness and annual leave because it would impact her benefits. She was more than capable of working full time.
That's irrelevant to your OP.
Not when it's the taxpayer funding this lifestyle. It's very revelant. It's the taxpayer funding this lifestyle. "
Pack it in Tom. Claiming sick benefits isn't a lifestyle choice |
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|
By *otMe66Man 4 days ago
Terra Firma |
"When applying for PIP, is it based on the ability to be able to do some kind of work or the ability to do the role or profession you are skilled / employed in?
No. It's based on the activities of daily living. And mobility."
|
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"Tom worked alongside a person who worked two and a half days a week and the rest of her income made up with universal credit. This person refused to work any extra to cover sickness and annual leave because it would impact her benefits. She was more than capable of working full time.
That's irrelevant to your OP.
Not when it's the taxpayer funding this lifestyle. It's very revelant. It's the taxpayer funding this lifestyle.
Pack it in Tom. Claiming sick benefits isn't a lifestyle choice "
I meant some on UC |
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"
Sicknote culture is independent of politics -
They will sure as hell use it as a tool for distraction and division.
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are causing your problems'
But what if you modified it slighly to:
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are embezzling public finances' That's a reasonable gripe, no?
Best make things harder for people who need assistance, just in case then.
At least there will be some left for those that really need it, the money tree hasn't bloomed this year
Assessments set you up to fail
100% this.
“Can you walk 100 metres?”
“Yes”
“You’re fit for work”
“It takes me an hour and I can’t move from 3 hours afterwards because I’m in so much pain”
“That doesn’t matter, you can walk 100 metres, you’re fit for work”
The capability to work assessment: can you put food to your mouth? Yes. You can work. But so can babies and those with end stage dementia and end of life - have they got to work also?
It’s very easy to tell the people who have never been through a capability to work assessment, or aren’t close to someone who has.
Before I had the assessment, I naively thought it would classify you to the actual capacity. No, it's a yes or no answer. They don't give a flying fuck that your capacity might be very much reduced. I never understood the rationale behind the question I used as an example.
When people say that it’s easy to get PIP and sickness benefits it’s so obvious that they’ve no experience of it whatsoever, it’s a horrible degrading system that, as you rightly say, is designed to prevent people getting the support they require. That people are demanding it become even more restrictive shows either complete ignorance of the process, a total lack of empathy, or a belief that people with disabilities are somehow lesser than able bodied people.. Your comment is far removed from reality and shows a very ungrateful attitude towards the extensive help provided by the government. Statistics do not support your opinion. There are over. 3.5 million on PIP.
I have filled in the forms on behalf of a third party. It took me two days to complete and sailed straight through .
Some of the comments you hear at tribunals are very interesting. There are some very entitled people.
Oh please... Your experience is anecdotal!
The numbers state those who have been successful but not at what stage or those unsuccessful.
"
. Regardless of how you package it 3.5 million people are claiming some form of disability benefit . That figure indicates that the government are providing extensive s help. I am a member of a number of disabled forums and there are some very entitled people on them. I an fit and active so am a member in order to assist a third party .
I can think of at least two people misusing the benefits. One used a mobility car as a taxi service for their friends , another used their parents car for personal use and even tried to claim transport to a hospital for their parents even though they had a car. |
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"
Sicknote culture is independent of politics -
They will sure as hell use it as a tool for distraction and division.
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are causing your problems'
But what if you modified it slighly to:
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are embezzling public finances' That's a reasonable gripe, no?
Best make things harder for people who need assistance, just in case then.
At least there will be some left for those that really need it, the money tree hasn't bloomed this year
Assessments set you up to fail
100% this.
“Can you walk 100 metres?”
“Yes”
“You’re fit for work”
“It takes me an hour and I can’t move from 3 hours afterwards because I’m in so much pain”
“That doesn’t matter, you can walk 100 metres, you’re fit for work”
The capability to work assessment: can you put food to your mouth? Yes. You can work. But so can babies and those with end stage dementia and end of life - have they got to work also?
It’s very easy to tell the people who have never been through a capability to work assessment, or aren’t close to someone who has.
Before I had the assessment, I naively thought it would classify you to the actual capacity. No, it's a yes or no answer. They don't give a flying fuck that your capacity might be very much reduced. I never understood the rationale behind the question I used as an example.
When people say that it’s easy to get PIP and sickness benefits it’s so obvious that they’ve no experience of it whatsoever, it’s a horrible degrading system that, as you rightly say, is designed to prevent people getting the support they require. That people are demanding it become even more restrictive shows either complete ignorance of the process, a total lack of empathy, or a belief that people with disabilities are somehow lesser than able bodied people.. Your comment is far removed from reality and shows a very ungrateful attitude towards the extensive help provided by the government. Statistics do not support your opinion. There are over. 3.5 million on PIP.
I have filled in the forms on behalf of a third party. It took me two days to complete and sailed straight through .
Some of the comments you hear at tribunals are very interesting. There are some very entitled people.
Oh please... Your experience is anecdotal!
The numbers state those who have been successful but not at what stage or those unsuccessful.
. Regardless of how you package it 3.5 million people are claiming some form of disability benefit . That figure indicates that the government are providing extensive s help. I am a member of a number of disabled forums and there are some very entitled people on them. I an fit and active so am a member in order to assist a third party .
I can think of at least two people misusing the benefits. One used a mobility car as a taxi service for their friends , another used their parents car for personal use and even tried to claim transport to a hospital for their parents even though they had a car. "
We should judge the disabled community (and legislate) based on the worst possible behaviour of two fictional people. This is the Tory way. |
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"
Sicknote culture is independent of politics -
They will sure as hell use it as a tool for distraction and division.
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are causing your problems'
But what if you modified it slighly to:
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are embezzling public finances' That's a reasonable gripe, no?
Best make things harder for people who need assistance, just in case then.
At least there will be some left for those that really need it, the money tree hasn't bloomed this year
Assessments set you up to fail
100% this.
“Can you walk 100 metres?”
“Yes”
“You’re fit for work”
“It takes me an hour and I can’t move from 3 hours afterwards because I’m in so much pain”
“That doesn’t matter, you can walk 100 metres, you’re fit for work”
The capability to work assessment: can you put food to your mouth? Yes. You can work. But so can babies and those with end stage dementia and end of life - have they got to work also?
It’s very easy to tell the people who have never been through a capability to work assessment, or aren’t close to someone who has.
Before I had the assessment, I naively thought it would classify you to the actual capacity. No, it's a yes or no answer. They don't give a flying fuck that your capacity might be very much reduced. I never understood the rationale behind the question I used as an example.
When people say that it’s easy to get PIP and sickness benefits it’s so obvious that they’ve no experience of it whatsoever, it’s a horrible degrading system that, as you rightly say, is designed to prevent people getting the support they require. That people are demanding it become even more restrictive shows either complete ignorance of the process, a total lack of empathy, or a belief that people with disabilities are somehow lesser than able bodied people.. Your comment is far removed from reality and shows a very ungrateful attitude towards the extensive help provided by the government. Statistics do not support your opinion. There are over. 3.5 million on PIP.
I have filled in the forms on behalf of a third party. It took me two days to complete and sailed straight through .
Some of the comments you hear at tribunals are very interesting. There are some very entitled people.
Oh please... Your experience is anecdotal!
The numbers state those who have been successful but not at what stage or those unsuccessful.
. Regardless of how you package it 3.5 million people are claiming some form of disability benefit . That figure indicates that the government are providing extensive s help. I am a member of a number of disabled forums and there are some very entitled people on them. I an fit and active so am a member in order to assist a third party .
I can think of at least two people misusing the benefits. One used a mobility car as a taxi service for their friends , another used their parents car for personal use and even tried to claim transport to a hospital for their parents even though they had a car. "
Those numbers are still irrelevant to people like myself who are having great difficulty claiming anything. Not only are disabilities unseen, they can also be atypical. Not fitting the little boxes in the assessment. Not fitting the yes/no responses when the answer is yes and no. |
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A company I know didn't have a sickness policy in place. With negotiations with the management and the unions they formulated an agreement.
Essentially what happened was the staff would go to their union rep and ask "when can we go off sick" without it affecting their absence and initiating a review etc. And behold they were sick on the exact date!
The basic point is, as we see in so many things, where there is a loophole (some) people will exploit it.
|
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"A company I know didn't have a sickness policy in place. With negotiations with the management and the unions they formulated an agreement.
Essentially what happened was the staff would go to their union rep and ask "when can we go off sick" without it affecting their absence and initiating a review etc. And behold they were sick on the exact date!
The basic point is, as we see in so many things, where there is a loophole (some) people will exploit it.
"
So the point is, do you legislate/make the rules to consider the minority who abuse the system, or do you consider the majority who don't abuse the system.
|
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"A company I know didn't have a sickness policy in place. With negotiations with the management and the unions they formulated an agreement.
Essentially what happened was the staff would go to their union rep and ask "when can we go off sick" without it affecting their absence and initiating a review etc. And behold they were sick on the exact date!
The basic point is, as we see in so many things, where there is a loophole (some) people will exploit it.
"
Sounds like the local council/nhs/civil service
|
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"A company I know didn't have a sickness policy in place. With negotiations with the management and the unions they formulated an agreement.
Essentially what happened was the staff would go to their union rep and ask "when can we go off sick" without it affecting their absence and initiating a review etc. And behold they were sick on the exact date!
The basic point is, as we see in so many things, where there is a loophole (some) people will exploit it.
"
Unfortunately that is true but the problem is clamping down on unscrupulous claims without affecting those in genuine need. Ages ago there were stories of people claiming disability benifit, saying their back was to painful to walk far but then got filmed playing Sunday league football. Even though these are a minority they should be investigated and dealt with accordingly. |
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Maybe closing all the tax loops for companies and those that can afford to pay for fancy financial services.
But it seems much easier to target disabled scroungers claiming benefits.
It's a joke, a sick one
Mrs x |
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Claimants are ‘unscrupulous’?
These retards have kept on trying to limit access to benefits to deny people them-they changed INCAPACITY to ESA, then changed THAT to UC & FRAUD has gone UP despite that mass murderer IAIN DUNCAN SMITH claiming ESA would eradicate fraud from the welfare shitstem.
It is classic Tory division & blinkers on when £37 billion in fraudulent PPE contracts for junk that didn’t work can be written off without a murmur but CLAIM the pittance the state tells you you are entitled to & they will chase you to the grave for every penny over that level pittance  |
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"A company I know didn't have a sickness policy in place. With negotiations with the management and the unions they formulated an agreement.
Essentially what happened was the staff would go to their union rep and ask "when can we go off sick" without it affecting their absence and initiating a review etc. And behold they were sick on the exact date!
The basic point is, as we see in so many things, where there is a loophole (some) people will exploit it.
Unfortunately that is true but the problem is clamping down on unscrupulous claims without affecting those in genuine need. Ages ago there were stories of people claiming disability benifit, saying their back was to painful to walk far but then got filmed playing Sunday league football. Even though these are a minority they should be investigated and dealt with accordingly."
FRAUD is FRAUD but welfare claimants ARE targeted disportionately and are ALWAYS used as a go to whipping boy. |
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"
Sicknote culture is independent of politics -
They will sure as hell use it as a tool for distraction and division.
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are causing your problems'
But what if you modified it slighly to:
'look at those people over there using sick notes to get off work, these people are embezzling public finances' That's a reasonable gripe, no?
Best make things harder for people who need assistance, just in case then.
At least there will be some left for those that really need it, the money tree hasn't bloomed this year
Assessments set you up to fail
100% this.
“Can you walk 100 metres?”
“Yes”
“You’re fit for work”
“It takes me an hour and I can’t move from 3 hours afterwards because I’m in so much pain”
“That doesn’t matter, you can walk 100 metres, you’re fit for work”
The capability to work assessment: can you put food to your mouth? Yes. You can work. But so can babies and those with end stage dementia and end of life - have they got to work also?
It’s very easy to tell the people who have never been through a capability to work assessment, or aren’t close to someone who has.
Before I had the assessment, I naively thought it would classify you to the actual capacity. No, it's a yes or no answer. They don't give a flying fuck that your capacity might be very much reduced. I never understood the rationale behind the question I used as an example.
When people say that it’s easy to get PIP and sickness benefits it’s so obvious that they’ve no experience of it whatsoever, it’s a horrible degrading system that, as you rightly say, is designed to prevent people getting the support they require. That people are demanding it become even more restrictive shows either complete ignorance of the process, a total lack of empathy, or a belief that people with disabilities are somehow lesser than able bodied people."
The WCA & the computer fraud(Read the work of Mo Stewart) that underpins it is THE next scandal-it is far worse than the POST OFFICE debacle but it won’t the attention it deserves because the public are brainwashed regarding benefits & the people claiming them make them complicit in the falsehoods surrounding them. |
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"A company I know didn't have a sickness policy in place. With negotiations with the management and the unions they formulated an agreement.
Essentially what happened was the staff would go to their union rep and ask "when can we go off sick" without it affecting their absence and initiating a review etc. And behold they were sick on the exact date!
The basic point is, as we see in so many things, where there is a loophole (some) people will exploit it.
So the point is, do you legislate/make the rules to consider the minority who abuse the system, or do you consider the majority who don't abuse the system.
"
“If the only tool you have is a hammer…” |
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"A company I know didn't have a sickness policy in place. With negotiations with the management and the unions they formulated an agreement.
Essentially what happened was the staff would go to their union rep and ask "when can we go off sick" without it affecting their absence and initiating a review etc. And behold they were sick on the exact date!
The basic point is, as we see in so many things, where there is a loophole (some) people will exploit it.
Unfortunately that is true but the problem is clamping down on unscrupulous claims without affecting those in genuine need. Ages ago there were stories of people claiming disability benifit, saying their back was to painful to walk far but then got filmed playing Sunday league football. Even though these are a minority they should be investigated and dealt with accordingly.
FRAUD is FRAUD but welfare claimants ARE targeted disportionately and are ALWAYS used as a go to whipping boy."
This is why I mentioned that it should be clamped down on without affecting the genuine people or as little as possible. Yes fraud is fraud and should be targeted wherever found and any that are guilty should certainly be whipping boys as they negatively effect the genuine people. |
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"A company I know didn't have a sickness policy in place. With negotiations with the management and the unions they formulated an agreement.
Essentially what happened was the staff would go to their union rep and ask "when can we go off sick" without it affecting their absence and initiating a review etc. And behold they were sick on the exact date!
The basic point is, as we see in so many things, where there is a loophole (some) people will exploit it.
Unfortunately that is true but the problem is clamping down on unscrupulous claims without affecting those in genuine need. Ages ago there were stories of people claiming disability benifit, saying their back was to painful to walk far but then got filmed playing Sunday league football. Even though these are a minority they should be investigated and dealt with accordingly.
FRAUD is FRAUD but welfare claimants ARE targeted disportionately and are ALWAYS used as a go to whipping boy.
This is why I mentioned that it should be clamped down on without affecting the genuine people or as little as possible. Yes fraud is fraud and should be targeted wherever found and any that are guilty should certainly be whipping boys as they negatively effect the genuine people."
No one is disputing that fraud should be clamped down on, the problem is the way the government does it. |
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"A company I know didn't have a sickness policy in place. With negotiations with the management and the unions they formulated an agreement.
Essentially what happened was the staff would go to their union rep and ask "when can we go off sick" without it affecting their absence and initiating a review etc. And behold they were sick on the exact date!
The basic point is, as we see in so many things, where there is a loophole (some) people will exploit it.
Unfortunately that is true but the problem is clamping down on unscrupulous claims without affecting those in genuine need. Ages ago there were stories of people claiming disability benifit, saying their back was to painful to walk far but then got filmed playing Sunday league football. Even though these are a minority they should be investigated and dealt with accordingly.
FRAUD is FRAUD but welfare claimants ARE targeted disportionately and are ALWAYS used as a go to whipping boy.
This is why I mentioned that it should be clamped down on without affecting the genuine people or as little as possible. Yes fraud is fraud and should be targeted wherever found and any that are guilty should certainly be whipping boys as they negatively effect the genuine people.
No one is disputing that fraud should be clamped down on, the problem is the way the government does it."
I agree, hence the first sentence in my previous 2 posts addressing this. |
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It's difficult once you a benefit in place to change it. No matter what it is. I'm not an expert but I remember when Universal Credit was first suggested people were against it.
The policy of moving people from bigger houses to smaller social houses, if they no longer needed day a 4 bedroom. Vouchers instead of money for food. Targeted support instead of cash for PIP.
Now if those policies were in place at the inception of the benefit that would be that but if you try to change it afterwards that's the problem.
No one likes 'means tested' so it's difficult to devise targeted benefits. We are where we are but the benefits system is broken and not fit for purpose. |
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"It's difficult once you a benefit in place to change it. No matter what it is. I'm not an expert but I remember when Universal Credit was first suggested people were against it.
The policy of moving people from bigger houses to smaller social houses, if they no longer needed day a 4 bedroom. Vouchers instead of money for food. Targeted support instead of cash for PIP.
Now if those policies were in place at the inception of the benefit that would be that but if you try to change it afterwards that's the problem.
No one likes 'means tested' so it's difficult to devise targeted benefits. We are where we are but the benefits system is broken and not fit for purpose."
The DWP are a rogue & criminal cartel finding ways to flout the rule of law & deny people with few other choices their entitlements….UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME is the way out of this madness.
The DWP are in total disrepute & they did this themselves. |
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"It's difficult once you a benefit in place to change it. No matter what it is. I'm not an expert but I remember when Universal Credit was first suggested people were against it.
The policy of moving people from bigger houses to smaller social houses, if they no longer needed day a 4 bedroom. Vouchers instead of money for food. Targeted support instead of cash for PIP.
Now if those policies were in place at the inception of the benefit that would be that but if you try to change it afterwards that's the problem.
No one likes 'means tested' so it's difficult to devise targeted benefits. We are where we are but the benefits system is broken and not fit for purpose."
PIP isn't means tested |
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Yes, I know it isn't I was using it as an example of a benefit that might be changed how it is delivered. I believe the plans are to remove the cash element for those that don't need it for physical help/disabilities and those that need help with mental wellbeing etc would get 'practical' assistance such as counselling and not a cash element etc
I don't know the exact figure but the benefit budget is big. If you were starting from scratch and not reducing the total amount of money available you'd devise a better, fairer and more sustainable system.
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None of the proposals put forward by the government are in any way for the benefit of the recipient. It's purely a cost cutting exercise on the most vulnerable section of society.
They could generate billions by closing tax loopholes for wealthy individuals and big business but that would mean going after their own and they'd never do that.
Easier to go after the poor and sick, much easier targets. These work shy, lazy fuckers, asking for handouts from a system they have paid into for years, now that they find themselves incapacitated through ill health or injury. They should all be taken round the back of the barn and finished off.
Tories are a disgrace, as soon as they are fucked off the better.
Mrs x |
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"None of the proposals put forward by the government are in any way for the benefit of the recipient. It's purely a cost cutting exercise on the most vulnerable section of society.
They could generate billions by closing tax loopholes for wealthy individuals and big business but that would mean going after their own and they'd never do that.
Easier to go after the poor and sick, much easier targets. These work shy, lazy fuckers, asking for handouts from a system they have paid into for years, now that they find themselves incapacitated through ill health or injury. They should all be taken round the back of the barn and finished off.
Tories are a disgrace, as soon as they are fucked off the better.
Mrs x"
Well if Labour don't win the next election they never will. No doubt they'll raise billions from taxation. And by the way more than 50% of people receive more in benefits than they've paid in tax. |
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"None of the proposals put forward by the government are in any way for the benefit of the recipient. It's purely a cost cutting exercise on the most vulnerable section of society.
They could generate billions by closing tax loopholes for wealthy individuals and big business but that would mean going after their own and they'd never do that.
Easier to go after the poor and sick, much easier targets. These work shy, lazy fuckers, asking for handouts from a system they have paid into for years, now that they find themselves incapacitated through ill health or injury. They should all be taken round the back of the barn and finished off.
Tories are a disgrace, as soon as they are fucked off the better.
Mrs x
Well if Labour don't win the next election they never will. No doubt they'll raise billions from taxation. And by the way more than 50% of people receive more in benefits than they've paid in tax."
Thought NI paid for benefits?
Mrs x |
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"Thought NI paid for benefits?
Mrs x
I stand to be corrected but NI is not ring fenced; I believe it's used to pay for the state pension, statutory sick pay and maternity pay. "
Thought it was introduced after the war to pay for the new benefits system.
Anyway the benefit system, however funded should provide for the needs of people who need it. There are estimates that currently, through systematic reductions the benefit to the disabled is 100's of pounds short every month from just meeting basic needs.
Mrs x |
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"Thought NI paid for benefits?
Mrs x
I stand to be corrected but NI is not ring fenced; I believe it's used to pay for the state pension, statutory sick pay and maternity pay. "
NI isn't partitioned, it's just another tax. It would be a Ponzi scheme were it not for the fact that governments have the statutory right to raise taxes, now and in the future. |
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"Thought NI paid for benefits?
Mrs x
I stand to be corrected but NI is not ring fenced; I believe it's used to pay for the state pension, statutory sick pay and maternity pay.
NI isn't partitioned, it's just another tax. It would be a Ponzi scheme were it not for the fact that governments have the statutory right to raise taxes, now and in the future."
Will bow to your much greater knowledge than me.
That aside it still doesn't change the fact that the disabled do not recieve the level of benefit they need and these robbing bustards in government want to reduce it further, whilst saying it is for their benefit. That's total bollocks. Mrs x
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