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NHS sick leave and compulsory vaccination
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"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?"
I know plenty of vaxxed people who have taken time off sick due to covid, so I'd say No, it doesn't justify it at all. |
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By *I Two OP Couple
over a year ago
all around |
"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?I know plenty of vaxxed people who have taken time off sick due to covid, so I'd say No, it doesn't justify it at all."
Due to Covid, or long term effects of Covid ? |
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"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?"
I don't think it does justify it but I can see when the number crunching is done, budgets are tight etc it might well be something considered.. |
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"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?I know plenty of vaxxed people who have taken time off sick due to covid, so I'd say No, it doesn't justify it at all.
Due to Covid, or long term effects of Covid ?"
Both, and also a couple with adverse jab effects who aren't returning to work anytime soon. Omicron pretty much tore through everyone regardless of vaccine status.
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?"
I would love to see how many sick days are caused by a hangover. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?I know plenty of vaxxed people who have taken time off sick due to covid, so I'd say No, it doesn't justify it at all."
Me too! Plenty of vaxxed people at my former workplace were off with covid! I’m pro choice so against mandatory vaccination and I’m fully vaxxed! |
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"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?"
How many of the two million sick days were taken by unvaccinated people or by people who caught covid before a vaccine was available to them? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?"
No |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?"
Can you confirm what the report meant by 'long term effects'?
It is hard to justify anything if all we've got to go by is an ambiguous statement. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
I am against compulsory/mandatory vaccine for this illness _ased on what we currently know.
If Covid had a mortality rate akin to something like Ebola then that would change things for me (no I am not for one moment belittling the terrible loss of life but that whole discussion is now well discussed and would require caveat ad infinitum)
If the vaccines stopped transmission (or had 90% + prevention of transmission) then that would change things for me.
If there was irrefutable evidence that the vaccines would prevent long covid if someone gets infected, then that would also make me consider my position (though not as much as the other two).
For the NHS the key is test test test to reduce the chance of a vaccinated person with little/no symptoms being on the ward/in work. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?
I would love to see how many sick days are caused by a hangover. "
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am against compulsory/mandatory vaccine for this illness _ased on what we currently know.
If Covid had a mortality rate akin to something like Ebola then that would change things for me (no I am not for one moment belittling the terrible loss of life but that whole discussion is now well discussed and would require caveat ad infinitum)
If the vaccines stopped transmission (or had 90% + prevention of transmission) then that would change things for me.
If there was irrefutable evidence that the vaccines would prevent long covid if someone gets infected, then that would also make me consider my position (though not as much as the other two).
For the NHS the key is test test test to reduce the chance of a vaccinated person with little/no symptoms being on the ward/in work."
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am against compulsory/mandatory vaccine for this illness _ased on what we currently know.
If Covid had a mortality rate akin to something like Ebola then that would change things for me (no I am not for one moment belittling the terrible loss of life but that whole discussion is now well discussed and would require caveat ad infinitum)
If the vaccines stopped transmission (or had 90% + prevention of transmission) then that would change things for me.
If there was irrefutable evidence that the vaccines would prevent long covid if someone gets infected, then that would also make me consider my position (though not as much as the other two).
For the NHS the key is test test test to reduce the chance of a vaccinated person with little/no symptoms being on the ward/in work."
I agree.
The reliance on testing shows, to me at least, the efficacy of the vaccines is far from consistent. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am against compulsory/mandatory vaccine for this illness _ased on what we currently know.
If Covid had a mortality rate akin to something like Ebola then that would change things for me (no I am not for one moment belittling the terrible loss of life but that whole discussion is now well discussed and would require caveat ad infinitum)
If the vaccines stopped transmission (or had 90% + prevention of transmission) then that would change things for me.
If there was irrefutable evidence that the vaccines would prevent long covid if someone gets infected, then that would also make me consider my position (though not as much as the other two).
For the NHS the key is test test test to reduce the chance of a vaccinated person with little/no symptoms being on the ward/in work."
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By *I Two OP Couple
over a year ago
all around |
"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?
Can you confirm what the report meant by 'long term effects'?
It is hard to justify anything if all we've got to go by is an ambiguous statement."
Perhaps you should contact the author for confirmation ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I am against compulsory/mandatory vaccine for this illness _ased on what we currently know.
If Covid had a mortality rate akin to something like Ebola then that would change things for me (no I am not for one moment belittling the terrible loss of life but that whole discussion is now well discussed and would require caveat ad infinitum)
If the vaccines stopped transmission (or had 90% + prevention of transmission) then that would change things for me.
If there was irrefutable evidence that the vaccines would prevent long covid if someone gets infected, then that would also make me consider my position (though not as much as the other two).
For the NHS the key is test test test to reduce the chance of a vaccinated person with little/no symptoms being on the ward/in work."
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"I am against compulsory/mandatory vaccine for this illness _ased on what we currently know.
If Covid had a mortality rate akin to something like Ebola then that would change things for me (no I am not for one moment belittling the terrible loss of life but that whole discussion is now well discussed and would require caveat ad infinitum)
If the vaccines stopped transmission (or had 90% + prevention of transmission) then that would change things for me.
If there was irrefutable evidence that the vaccines would prevent long covid if someone gets infected, then that would also make me consider my position (though not as much as the other two).
For the NHS the key is test test test to reduce the chance of a vaccinated person with little/no symptoms being on the ward/in work."
This sums up how I feel too. Great post |
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By *I Two OP Couple
over a year ago
all around |
Another question, if an unvaccinated NHS worker is forced to work in a ward with Covid patients and contracts the virus and god forbid was to die, would the NHS be in any way liable ?
I don't know, just asking. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Another question, if an unvaccinated NHS worker is forced to work in a ward with Covid patients and contracts the virus and god forbid was to die, would the NHS be in any way liable ?
I don't know, just asking. "
One would assume that for any unvaxinated NHS worker that a full risk assesment has been made for any areas where coming into contact with COVID is possible/highly likley. And then that NHS worker is assigned a different place to work. An employer cannot knowingly place a worker at risk without taking measures to address the risk. which is one of the reasons we have got to 'mandates' to minimize the risk |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?
Can you confirm what the report meant by 'long term effects'?
It is hard to justify anything if all we've got to go by is an ambiguous statement.
Perhaps you should contact the author for confirmation ?"
As you've obviously read the report, surely it defined what was meant by 'long term effects'?
If the author omitted this, surely it was picked up when it was peer reviewed.
It was peer reviewed wasn't it?
You've not provided the title of the report or the name of the author, so hardly able to search for it, let alone ask the author. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?
Can you confirm what the report meant by 'long term effects'?
It is hard to justify anything if all we've got to go by is an ambiguous statement.
Perhaps you should contact the author for confirmation ?
As you've obviously read the report, surely it defined what was meant by 'long term effects'?
If the author omitted this, surely it was picked up when it was peer reviewed.
It was peer reviewed wasn't it?
You've not provided the title of the report or the name of the author, so hardly able to search for it, let alone ask the author. "
It was in the Guardian (maybe others) dont think this kind of article requires 'peer review' its hardly a scientific paper or trying to prove a theory. Just reporting the findings of a parlimentary commitee.
Heres the relevant paragraph.
'MPs on the all-party parliamentary group (APPG) on coronavirus estimate that more than 1.82m days were lost to healthcare workers with long Covid from March 2020 to September 2021 across England’s 219 NHS trusts.' |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I’d love the source too as statista shows that the average number of sick days per employee decreased.
“ In 2020, the average level of absence in the United Kingdom was 5.8 days per employee, the lowest rate of employee sickness leave in the provided time interval. In general the rate of employee absence has decreased since the peak of an average of 7.6 sick days per employee in 2013.”
Provided time interval was 2010-2020. |
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By *I Two OP Couple
over a year ago
all around |
"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?
Can you confirm what the report meant by 'long term effects'?
It is hard to justify anything if all we've got to go by is an ambiguous statement.
Perhaps you should contact the author for confirmation ?
As you've obviously read the report, surely it defined what was meant by 'long term effects'?
If the author omitted this, surely it was picked up when it was peer reviewed.
It was peer reviewed wasn't it?
You've not provided the title of the report or the name of the author, so hardly able to search for it, let alone ask the author. "
Thanks for your comments
You are free to ignore my post as it seems to annoy you.
If you care to do so maybe you could read it properly and respond in an appropriate less aggressive manner and maybe we can have a discussion. |
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By *I Two OP Couple
over a year ago
all around |
"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?
Can you confirm what the report meant by 'long term effects'?
It is hard to justify anything if all we've got to go by is an ambiguous statement.
Perhaps you should contact the author for confirmation ?
As you've obviously read the report, surely it defined what was meant by 'long term effects'?
If the author omitted this, surely it was picked up when it was peer reviewed.
It was peer reviewed wasn't it?
You've not provided the title of the report or the name of the author, so hardly able to search for it, let alone ask the author.
It was in the Guardian (maybe others) dont think this kind of article requires 'peer review' its hardly a scientific paper or trying to prove a theory. Just reporting the findings of a parlimentary commitee.
Heres the relevant paragraph.
'MPs on the all-party parliamentary group (APPG) on coronavirus estimate that more than 1.82m days were lost to healthcare workers with long Covid from March 2020 to September 2021 across England’s 219 NHS trusts.'"
It came up in a news feed, I don't think it was the guardian as it definitely stated 2million, no doubt an exaggeration but still a consideration I suppose. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It was the guardian! Found it! https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2022/jan/24/long-covid-nearly-2m-days-lost-in-nhs-staff-absences-in-england
This just relates to NHS staff btw! That wasn’t clear in the OP. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?
Can you confirm what the report meant by 'long term effects'?
It is hard to justify anything if all we've got to go by is an ambiguous statement.
Perhaps you should contact the author for confirmation ?
As you've obviously read the report, surely it defined what was meant by 'long term effects'?
If the author omitted this, surely it was picked up when it was peer reviewed.
It was peer reviewed wasn't it?
You've not provided the title of the report or the name of the author, so hardly able to search for it, let alone ask the author.
It was in the Guardian (maybe others) dont think this kind of article requires 'peer review' its hardly a scientific paper or trying to prove a theory. Just reporting the findings of a parlimentary commitee.
Heres the relevant paragraph.
'MPs on the all-party parliamentary group (APPG) on coronavirus estimate that more than 1.82m days were lost to healthcare workers with long Covid from March 2020 to September 2021 across England’s 219 NHS trusts.'"
Ah... now we're getting somewhere.
It was an estimate of staff absences due to long Covid, _ased on data obtained from 70 NHS trusts in England.
The figure quoted wasn't 2 million days, it was 1.82 million days.
Why not ask if it has been peer reviewed? Whenever an 'antivaxxer' posts a statistic, it is shouted down as rubbish at best and fabricated at worst, with demands it will only be accepted if it is peer reviewed.
But was is a 10% increase between friends?
This was interesting; "The Office for National Statistics estimates that 1.3 million people, or 2% of the population, are living with long Covid, _ased on people self-reporting symptoms that last more than a month after a Covid infection."
Self-reporting? Isn't that unreliable due to being open to abuse?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?
Can you confirm what the report meant by 'long term effects'?
It is hard to justify anything if all we've got to go by is an ambiguous statement.
Perhaps you should contact the author for confirmation ?
As you've obviously read the report, surely it defined what was meant by 'long term effects'?
If the author omitted this, surely it was picked up when it was peer reviewed.
It was peer reviewed wasn't it?
You've not provided the title of the report or the name of the author, so hardly able to search for it, let alone ask the author.
It was in the Guardian (maybe others) dont think this kind of article requires 'peer review' its hardly a scientific paper or trying to prove a theory. Just reporting the findings of a parlimentary commitee.
Heres the relevant paragraph.
'MPs on the all-party parliamentary group (APPG) on coronavirus estimate that more than 1.82m days were lost to healthcare workers with long Covid from March 2020 to September 2021 across England’s 219 NHS trusts.'
It came up in a news feed, I don't think it was the guardian as it definitely stated 2million, no doubt an exaggeration but still a consideration I suppose."
Did you read the report or just the headline in the news feed? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?
Can you confirm what the report meant by 'long term effects'?
It is hard to justify anything if all we've got to go by is an ambiguous statement.
Perhaps you should contact the author for confirmation ?
As you've obviously read the report, surely it defined what was meant by 'long term effects'?
If the author omitted this, surely it was picked up when it was peer reviewed.
It was peer reviewed wasn't it?
You've not provided the title of the report or the name of the author, so hardly able to search for it, let alone ask the author.
It was in the Guardian (maybe others) dont think this kind of article requires 'peer review' its hardly a scientific paper or trying to prove a theory. Just reporting the findings of a parlimentary commitee.
Heres the relevant paragraph.
'MPs on the all-party parliamentary group (APPG) on coronavirus estimate that more than 1.82m days were lost to healthcare workers with long Covid from March 2020 to September 2021 across England’s 219 NHS trusts.'
It came up in a news feed, I don't think it was the guardian as it definitely stated 2million, no doubt an exaggeration but still a consideration I suppose.
Did you read the report or just the headline in the news feed?"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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This is an interesting read too - https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/nhs-sickness-absence-rates/october-2020-to-december-2020-provisional-statistics# |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This is an interesting read too - https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/nhs-sickness-absence-rates/october-2020-to-december-2020-provisional-statistics#"
Interesting reading.
COVID-19 related sickness absence in December 2020, equating to 18.4% of all absences recorded, compared to 15.6% in November 2020.
Shouldn't those figures be in reverse if the vaccines are effective? |
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"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?"
Not really, if the vaccine would have proved to improve the situation and prevented sickness, but as it doesn't... also linked to it is the sick days they had off after being vaxxed and feeling crap...
Theres not really a strong case for making it compulsory with the current vaccine performance and current variants.
Still.... Gives people something to blame other people about. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What I found interesting, was that the days lost to anxiety/depression/mental health was over half a million! "
511,000 full time equivalent days at that.
The Guardian article didn't mention if the data obtained from the 70 NHS trusts were FTE or referred to individual people. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?
Can you confirm what the report meant by 'long term effects'?
It is hard to justify anything if all we've got to go by is an ambiguous statement.
Perhaps you should contact the author for confirmation ?
As you've obviously read the report, surely it defined what was meant by 'long term effects'?
If the author omitted this, surely it was picked up when it was peer reviewed.
It was peer reviewed wasn't it?
You've not provided the title of the report or the name of the author, so hardly able to search for it, let alone ask the author.
It was in the Guardian (maybe others) dont think this kind of article requires 'peer review' its hardly a scientific paper or trying to prove a theory. Just reporting the findings of a parlimentary commitee.
Heres the relevant paragraph.
'MPs on the all-party parliamentary group (APPG) on coronavirus estimate that more than 1.82m days were lost to healthcare workers with long Covid from March 2020 to September 2021 across England’s 219 NHS trusts.'
Ah... now we're getting somewhere.
It was an estimate of staff absences due to long Covid, _ased on data obtained from 70 NHS trusts in England.
The figure quoted wasn't 2 million days, it was 1.82 million days.
Why not ask if it has been peer reviewed? Whenever an 'antivaxxer' posts a statistic, it is shouted down as rubbish at best and fabricated at worst, with demands it will only be accepted if it is peer reviewed.
But was is a 10% increase between friends?
This was interesting; "The Office for National Statistics estimates that 1.3 million people, or 2% of the population, are living with long Covid, _ased on people self-reporting symptoms that last more than a month after a Covid infection."
Self-reporting? Isn't that unreliable due to being open to abuse?
"
Yep it was an estimate from information the Parlimentary commitee gathered from NHS Trusts, wasnt trying to hide anything why should I? Simply provding context, author and source (so many fail to do that for reasons known to themselves) to what the OP said. I posted the relevant paragraph (unedited) Dont know about you but I find it incredibly annoying when people only post what they think supports their argument, at least I know you actually read things 
If you would like to post anything relevant from the Parlimentary commitee im more than happy to read it whether it is peer reviewed of not.
There is a whole world of difference from me posting what a Parlimentary commitee has said ... when compared to what an 'anti-vaxxer' may be claiming as fact or they have evidence that this that or the other isnt effective (normally around vaccinations, cause of death, masks, efficacy etc you know the kinda thing its discussed often enough)
You would expect that kind of statement to backed up with some kind of 'peer review'. I'll look forward to your clever retort stating the opposite.
2m or 1.82m ... still a big number and yes between friends lets not bother nit picking that, sure we can agree its still significant?
Not sure what the relevance is with the addendum regarding the ONS estimate on the general population to this particular post .. but hey if it rocks ya boat then thats cool. I wondered what your point was going to be and we got there with self-reporting. Yes of course self-reporting can be open to abuse which is why 'self-reporting' is often investigated to identify any particular trends or people reporting to suit a particular agenda. I know terrible, but there are people out there like that.
In any case in relation to this post the 1.82m was reached from figures provided by NHS trusts to the commitee on staff abscences not via self-reporting. I think the NHS know why their staff are off work.
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"What I found interesting, was that the days lost to anxiety/depression/mental health was over half a million! "
Unfortunately, this is incredibly common in the NHS. Typically work related stress, anxiety/other mental health illness is the number one reason for staff absence followed by back and musculoskeletal issues. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This is an interesting read too - https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/nhs-sickness-absence-rates/october-2020-to-december-2020-provisional-statistics#
Interesting reading.
COVID-19 related sickness absence in December 2020, equating to 18.4% of all absences recorded, compared to 15.6% in November 2020.
Shouldn't those figures be in reverse if the vaccines are effective?"
The vaccines were still in early roll out in 2020 and as you well know there was a peak in infection following the christmas 2020 fre for all before BJ backtracked.
More relevant to look at death rates since OMICRON has been around if we pick the same period.
Week ending 30th November 2021 7 day daily average total for Covid infections 42,338 with daily average 112 deaths
Week ending 31st December 2021 7 day daily average total for Covid infections 149,543 with daily average 110 deaths per day.
Tripling (I was going to say quadrupling but its not quite there) of cases and death rate falling, seems the vaccine does reduce the chance of death after all.
Your tur
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I’m totally against mandatory/ forced vaccination
No real evidence it does anything
Our nurses and nhs staff worked with very little ppe at the start but still carried on
Now being forced to take a jab that’s still in its test stages
If I told anyone who is for the vaccination of our NHS staff to take a jab that I mix up that should be ok and but it’s been tested and passed
(Will cure all illness)
How many would have it
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A lot of people don’t seem to realise that there are many a job role in the nhs where you have to have hep b vaccine status or agree to get it as per your contract or you will loose your job - this is no different |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?
Can you confirm what the report meant by 'long term effects'?
It is hard to justify anything if all we've got to go by is an ambiguous statement.
Perhaps you should contact the author for confirmation ?
As you've obviously read the report, surely it defined what was meant by 'long term effects'?
If the author omitted this, surely it was picked up when it was peer reviewed.
It was peer reviewed wasn't it?
You've not provided the title of the report or the name of the author, so hardly able to search for it, let alone ask the author.
It was in the Guardian (maybe others) dont think this kind of article requires 'peer review' its hardly a scientific paper or trying to prove a theory. Just reporting the findings of a parlimentary commitee.
Heres the relevant paragraph.
'MPs on the all-party parliamentary group (APPG) on coronavirus estimate that more than 1.82m days were lost to healthcare workers with long Covid from March 2020 to September 2021 across England’s 219 NHS trusts.'
Ah... now we're getting somewhere.
It was an estimate of staff absences due to long Covid, _ased on data obtained from 70 NHS trusts in England.
The figure quoted wasn't 2 million days, it was 1.82 million days.
Why not ask if it has been peer reviewed? Whenever an 'antivaxxer' posts a statistic, it is shouted down as rubbish at best and fabricated at worst, with demands it will only be accepted if it is peer reviewed.
But was is a 10% increase between friends?
This was interesting; "The Office for National Statistics estimates that 1.3 million people, or 2% of the population, are living with long Covid, _ased on people self-reporting symptoms that last more than a month after a Covid infection."
Self-reporting? Isn't that unreliable due to being open to abuse?
Yep it was an estimate from information the Parlimentary commitee gathered from NHS Trusts, wasnt trying to hide anything why should I? Simply provding context, author and source (so many fail to do that for reasons known to themselves) to what the OP said. I posted the relevant paragraph (unedited) Dont know about you but I find it incredibly annoying when people only post what they think supports their argument, at least I know you actually read things
If you would like to post anything relevant from the Parlimentary commitee im more than happy to read it whether it is peer reviewed of not.
There is a whole world of difference from me posting what a Parlimentary commitee has said ... when compared to what an 'anti-vaxxer' may be claiming as fact or they have evidence that this that or the other isnt effective (normally around vaccinations, cause of death, masks, efficacy etc you know the kinda thing its discussed often enough)
You would expect that kind of statement to backed up with some kind of 'peer review'. I'll look forward to your clever retort stating the opposite.
2m or 1.82m ... still a big number and yes between friends lets not bother nit picking that, sure we can agree its still significant?
Not sure what the relevance is with the addendum regarding the ONS estimate on the general population to this particular post .. but hey if it rocks ya boat then thats cool. I wondered what your point was going to be and we got there with self-reporting. Yes of course self-reporting can be open to abuse which is why 'self-reporting' is often investigated to identify any particular trends or people reporting to suit a particular agenda. I know terrible, but there are people out there like that.
In any case in relation to this post the 1.82m was reached from figures provided by NHS trusts to the commitee on staff abscences not via self-reporting. I think the NHS know why their staff are off work.
"
I mentioned peer review before you mentioned the Guardian article.
I made my point, about 'long term effects', in my initial reply to the OP.
But if you want to find a hidden agenda, crack on. Just don't go too far down the rabbit hole! |
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"This is an interesting read too - https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/nhs-sickness-absence-rates/october-2020-to-december-2020-provisional-statistics#
Interesting reading.
COVID-19 related sickness absence in December 2020, equating to 18.4% of all absences recorded, compared to 15.6% in November 2020.
Shouldn't those figures be in reverse if the vaccines are effective?
The vaccines were still in early roll out in 2020 and as you well know there was a peak in infection following the christmas 2020 fre for all before BJ backtracked.
More relevant to look at death rates since OMICRON has been around if we pick the same period.
Week ending 30th November 2021 7 day daily average total for Covid infections 42,338 with daily average 112 deaths
Week ending 31st December 2021 7 day daily average total for Covid infections 149,543 with daily average 110 deaths per day.
Tripling (I was going to say quadrupling but its not quite there) of cases and death rate falling, seems the vaccine does reduce the chance of death after all.
Your tur
"
Is that the vaccines alone or the milder nature of Omicron playing a big part? It targeting the upper respiratory tract rather than the lungs, has a less severe outcome for most. I think its disingenuous to claim that those numbers are purely down to the vaccines. I however believe we would still have seen a lot more deaths if Omicron was a more severe variant. |
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"A lot of people don’t seem to realise that there are many a job role in the nhs where you have to have hep b vaccine status or agree to get it as per your contract or you will loose your job - this is no different "
There is a big difference this vaccine is still in the test stages |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This is an interesting read too - https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/nhs-sickness-absence-rates/october-2020-to-december-2020-provisional-statistics#
Interesting reading.
COVID-19 related sickness absence in December 2020, equating to 18.4% of all absences recorded, compared to 15.6% in November 2020.
Shouldn't those figures be in reverse if the vaccines are effective?
The vaccines were still in early roll out in 2020 and as you well know there was a peak in infection following the christmas 2020 fre for all before BJ backtracked.
More relevant to look at death rates since OMICRON has been around if we pick the same period.
Week ending 30th November 2021 7 day daily average total for Covid infections 42,338 with daily average 112 deaths
Week ending 31st December 2021 7 day daily average total for Covid infections 149,543 with daily average 110 deaths per day.
Tripling (I was going to say quadrupling but its not quite there) of cases and death rate falling, seems the vaccine does reduce the chance of death after all.
Your tur
"
I'll put my hands up reference the 2020 data...point taken.
We were told Omicron spreads faster and is milder.
Weren't we also told the current vaccines were ineffective against Omicron?
The drop in deaths is approx. 2%
The rise in infections is approx. 350%
Do the figures above kind of reinforce those statements? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This is an interesting read too - https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/nhs-sickness-absence-rates/october-2020-to-december-2020-provisional-statistics#
Interesting reading.
COVID-19 related sickness absence in December 2020, equating to 18.4% of all absences recorded, compared to 15.6% in November 2020.
Shouldn't those figures be in reverse if the vaccines are effective?
The vaccines were still in early roll out in 2020 and as you well know there was a peak in infection following the christmas 2020 fre for all before BJ backtracked.
More relevant to look at death rates since OMICRON has been around if we pick the same period.
Week ending 30th November 2021 7 day daily average total for Covid infections 42,338 with daily average 112 deaths
Week ending 31st December 2021 7 day daily average total for Covid infections 149,543 with daily average 110 deaths per day.
Tripling (I was going to say quadrupling but its not quite there) of cases and death rate falling, seems the vaccine does reduce the chance of death after all.
Your tur
I'll put my hands up reference the 2020 data...point taken.
We were told Omicron spreads faster and is milder.
Weren't we also told the current vaccines were ineffective against Omicron?
The drop in deaths is approx. 2%
The rise in infections is approx. 350%
Do the figures above kind of reinforce those statements?"
we werent told the vaccines were inefective against Omicron, but that 3 doses were necessary to boost the immune response to an effective level.
2 doses estimated protection against symptomatic infection 0-20%
3 doses estimated protection against symptomatic infection 55-80%
better explained from this, taken from Imperial University London
'Depending on the estimates used for vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic infection from the Delta variant, this translates into vaccine effectiveness estimates against symptomatic Omicron infection of between 0% and 20% after two doses, and between 55% and 80% after a booster dose. Similar estimates were obtained using genotype data, albeit with greater uncertainty'
Not arguing that Omicron has been 'milder' (thank god) and that will have bearing on the corellation between infections/deaths.
Vaccines still offer the surest way to protect yourself of course in some people there will be some level of natural immunity from previous infections but this will vary from person to person.
I'm pretty sure we wont ever completely agree, a point may be conceeded here and there but the debate is of interest and as adults we can agree to disagree.
After all if we believe in free speech and stifling of oposing views is contrary to that belief |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This is an interesting read too - https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/nhs-sickness-absence-rates/october-2020-to-december-2020-provisional-statistics#
Interesting reading.
COVID-19 related sickness absence in December 2020, equating to 18.4% of all absences recorded, compared to 15.6% in November 2020.
Shouldn't those figures be in reverse if the vaccines are effective?
The vaccines were still in early roll out in 2020 and as you well know there was a peak in infection following the christmas 2020 fre for all before BJ backtracked.
More relevant to look at death rates since OMICRON has been around if we pick the same period.
Week ending 30th November 2021 7 day daily average total for Covid infections 42,338 with daily average 112 deaths
Week ending 31st December 2021 7 day daily average total for Covid infections 149,543 with daily average 110 deaths per day.
Tripling (I was going to say quadrupling but its not quite there) of cases and death rate falling, seems the vaccine does reduce the chance of death after all.
Your tur
I'll put my hands up reference the 2020 data...point taken.
We were told Omicron spreads faster and is milder.
Weren't we also told the current vaccines were ineffective against Omicron?
The drop in deaths is approx. 2%
The rise in infections is approx. 350%
Do the figures above kind of reinforce those statements?
we werent told the vaccines were inefective against Omicron, but that 3 doses were necessary to boost the immune response to an effective level.
2 doses estimated protection against symptomatic infection 0-20%
3 doses estimated protection against symptomatic infection 55-80%
better explained from this, taken from Imperial University London
'Depending on the estimates used for vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic infection from the Delta variant, this translates into vaccine effectiveness estimates against symptomatic Omicron infection of between 0% and 20% after two doses, and between 55% and 80% after a booster dose. Similar estimates were obtained using genotype data, albeit with greater uncertainty'
Not arguing that Omicron has been 'milder' (thank god) and that will have bearing on the corellation between infections/deaths.
Vaccines still offer the surest way to protect yourself of course in some people there will be some level of natural immunity from previous infections but this will vary from person to person.
I'm pretty sure we wont ever completely agree, a point may be conceeded here and there but the debate is of interest and as adults we can agree to disagree.
After all if we believe in free speech and stifling of oposing views is contrary to that belief"
Indeed. Agree to disagree is a good compromise. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?I know plenty of vaxxed people who have taken time off sick due to covid, so I'd say No, it doesn't justify it at all."
All my offices are boosted, I'm the only one not been off with the virus. Everyone of them have. Office is about 20. |
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"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?"
There are a shed load of people who have been double and triple vaccinated and have had lots of time off work, since completing their jabs, due to COVID.
As the vaccine neither prevents you from contracting, spreading, from falling ill or even dying from the the virus then what difference would mandatory vaccinations make?
Let’s be honest, if it did what is stated above, like other vaccines do, then you would have far fewer people unvaccinated because it would wholly sell itself. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?
Can you confirm what the report meant by 'long term effects'?
It is hard to justify anything if all we've got to go by is an ambiguous statement.
Perhaps you should contact the author for confirmation ?
As you've obviously read the report, surely it defined what was meant by 'long term effects'?
If the author omitted this, surely it was picked up when it was peer reviewed.
It was peer reviewed wasn't it?
You've not provided the title of the report or the name of the author, so hardly able to search for it, let alone ask the author.
It was in the Guardian (maybe others) dont think this kind of article requires 'peer review' its hardly a scientific paper or trying to prove a theory. Just reporting the findings of a parlimentary commitee.
Heres the relevant paragraph.
'MPs on the all-party parliamentary group (APPG) on coronavirus estimate that more than 1.82m days were lost to healthcare workers with long Covid from March 2020 to September 2021 across England’s 219 NHS trusts.'
Ah... now we're getting somewhere.
It was an estimate of staff absences due to long Covid, _ased on data obtained from 70 NHS trusts in England.
The figure quoted wasn't 2 million days, it was 1.82 million days.
Why not ask if it has been peer reviewed? Whenever an 'antivaxxer' posts a statistic, it is shouted down as rubbish at best and fabricated at worst, with demands it will only be accepted if it is peer reviewed.
But was is a 10% increase between friends?
This was interesting; "The Office for National Statistics estimates that 1.3 million people, or 2% of the population, are living with long Covid, _ased on people self-reporting symptoms that last more than a month after a Covid infection."
Self-reporting? Isn't that unreliable due to being open to abuse?
"
I've had flu and colds that have lingered well over a month in the past, never reported it or considered long cold, just a lingering annoying chestyness or lather gym out of breath. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?
There are a shed load of people who have been double and triple vaccinated and have had lots of time off work, since completing their jabs, due to COVID.
As the vaccine neither prevents you from contracting, spreading, from falling ill or even dying from the the virus then what difference would mandatory vaccinations make?
Let’s be honest, if it did what is stated above, like other vaccines do, then you would have far fewer people unvaccinated because it would wholly sell itself. "
3 and some 4 jabs in space of a year and they still call it a vaccine   |
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"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?
There are a shed load of people who have been double and triple vaccinated and have had lots of time off work, since completing their jabs, due to COVID.
As the vaccine neither prevents you from contracting, spreading, from falling ill or even dying from the the virus then what difference would mandatory vaccinations make?
Let’s be honest, if it did what is stated above, like other vaccines do, then you would have far fewer people unvaccinated because it would wholly sell itself.
3 and some 4 jabs in space of a year and they still call it a vaccine "
yawn |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?
Can you confirm what the report meant by 'long term effects'?
It is hard to justify anything if all we've got to go by is an ambiguous statement.
Perhaps you should contact the author for confirmation ?
As you've obviously read the report, surely it defined what was meant by 'long term effects'?
If the author omitted this, surely it was picked up when it was peer reviewed.
It was peer reviewed wasn't it?
You've not provided the title of the report or the name of the author, so hardly able to search for it, let alone ask the author.
It was in the Guardian (maybe others) dont think this kind of article requires 'peer review' its hardly a scientific paper or trying to prove a theory. Just reporting the findings of a parlimentary commitee.
Heres the relevant paragraph.
'MPs on the all-party parliamentary group (APPG) on coronavirus estimate that more than 1.82m days were lost to healthcare workers with long Covid from March 2020 to September 2021 across England’s 219 NHS trusts.'"
That works out about 0.3% of days worked in that time.
The sickness level in the NHS is over 10% at the moment....or 30 times what has been lost to long covid. |
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By *I Two OP Couple
over a year ago
all around |
"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?
There are a shed load of people who have been double and triple vaccinated and have had lots of time off work, since completing their jabs, due to COVID.
As the vaccine neither prevents you from contracting, spreading, from falling ill or even dying from the the virus then what difference would mandatory vaccinations make?
Let’s be honest, if it did what is stated above, like other vaccines do, then you would have far fewer people unvaccinated because it would wholly sell itself.
3 and some 4 jabs in space of a year and they still call it a vaccine "
Same for hepb |
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"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?
There are a shed load of people who have been double and triple vaccinated and have had lots of time off work, since completing their jabs, due to COVID.
As the vaccine neither prevents you from contracting, spreading, from falling ill or even dying from the the virus then what difference would mandatory vaccinations make?
Let’s be honest, if it did what is stated above, like other vaccines do, then you would have far fewer people unvaccinated because it would wholly sell itself.
3 and some 4 jabs in space of a year and they still call it a vaccine "
Well put |
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"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?
Can you confirm what the report meant by 'long term effects'?
It is hard to justify anything if all we've got to go by is an ambiguous statement.
Perhaps you should contact the author for confirmation ?
As you've obviously read the report, surely it defined what was meant by 'long term effects'?
If the author omitted this, surely it was picked up when it was peer reviewed.
It was peer reviewed wasn't it?
You've not provided the title of the report or the name of the author, so hardly able to search for it, let alone ask the author.
It was in the Guardian (maybe others) dont think this kind of article requires 'peer review' its hardly a scientific paper or trying to prove a theory. Just reporting the findings of a parlimentary commitee.
Heres the relevant paragraph.
'MPs on the all-party parliamentary group (APPG) on coronavirus estimate that more than 1.82m days were lost to healthcare workers with long Covid from March 2020 to September 2021 across England’s 219 NHS trusts.'
That works out about 0.3% of days worked in that time.
The sickness level in the NHS is over 10% at the moment....or 30 times what has been lost to long covid. "
Check your data that 30 days inc compulsory 10days as been in contact
And the I can’t be assed to go work
And probably the ones who can’t possibly go in as there not safe and not worked a day since start of covid |
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As a comparable how many days are lost due to sickness anyway? And to flu / other common winter ailments? In an organisation with over 1.5m employees as anyone surprised to lose a day a year per employee? |
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Read the nhs has had 2.8 million sick days. Guess thats more to do with them getting paid for them. Yes i appreciate some will be genuinly sick. But its the goverment paid sectors that are taking the piss. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"Read the nhs has had 2.8 million sick days. Guess thats more to do with them getting paid for them. Yes i appreciate some will be genuinly sick. But its the goverment paid sectors that are taking the piss."
Having an employer who will provide sick pay is not limited to public sectors.
I work for a company that will pay me 0 - 6 months at full pay, 6 - 12 months at 75% and they also pay for BUPA healthcare.
Do I take the piss because I could, no! I respect the fact that should I ever need support through illness it is there for me and that is why I value the contract I have with my employer and give them 100%.
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"Read the nhs has had 2.8 million sick days. Guess thats more to do with them getting paid for them. Yes i appreciate some will be genuinly sick. But its the goverment paid sectors that are taking the piss."
If that statement is accurate
I'm surprised its so few. NHS has 1. 5 million employees. That's less than 2 days sick per employee in the last employment year. Maybe working from home for a year cuts down on sick days? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am against compulsory/mandatory vaccine for this illness _ased on what we currently know.
If Covid had a mortality rate akin to something like Ebola then that would change things for me (no I am not for one moment belittling the terrible loss of life but that whole discussion is now well discussed and would require caveat ad infinitum)
If the vaccines stopped transmission (or had 90% + prevention of transmission) then that would change things for me.
If there was irrefutable evidence that the vaccines would prevent long covid if someone gets infected, then that would also make me consider my position (though not as much as the other two).
For the NHS the key is test test test to reduce the chance of a vaccinated person with little/no symptoms being on the ward/in work."
well said . I completely agree. |
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"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?
There are a shed load of people who have been double and triple vaccinated and have had lots of time off work, since completing their jabs, due to COVID.
As the vaccine neither prevents you from contracting, spreading, from falling ill or even dying from the the virus then what difference would mandatory vaccinations make?
Let’s be honest, if it did what is stated above, like other vaccines do, then you would have far fewer people unvaccinated because it would wholly sell itself.
3 and some 4 jabs in space of a year and they still call it a vaccine "
As they do with the HPV vaccine.
HPV vaccination is administered as: A two-dose series (0, 6-12 months) for most persons who initiate vaccination at ages 9 through 14 years. A three-dose series (0, 1-2, 6 months) for persons who initiate vaccination at ages 15 through 45 years, and for immunocompromised persons.
https://www.cdc.gov/hpv/hcp/schedules-recommendations.html
|
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I remember the days when people stood outside on their doorstep clapping in solidarity for all the NHS workers that put their lives at risk to help us in our time of need,but now many of those same people that were clapping are now happy to see the NHS workers lose their jobs when they are in need of our support. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?I know plenty of vaxxed people who have taken time off sick due to covid, so I'd say No, it doesn't justify it at all."
I also know plenty of people who’ve gone off sick with it. But. We’re they actually sick or just using it as an excuse ? |
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"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?
How many of the two million sick days were taken by unvaccinated people or by people who caught covid before a vaccine was available to them?"
What would it matter as the vaccine doesn't stop you contracting covid anyway |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?
How many of the two million sick days were taken by unvaccinated people or by people who caught covid before a vaccine was available to them?
What would it matter as the vaccine doesn't stop you contracting covid anyway "
No face palm emoji damn it |
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"I read a report today that there have been 2 million sick days due to long term effects of Covid.
Does that alone justify compulsory vaccination ? It's not all about control ?
I would love to see how many sick days are caused by a hangover. "
Why do you need a sick day for that?
We used to turn up for work hanging the next morning, when I worked at Gatwick. As punishment we got given the heavy bulk loaded flights to spin, you seemed to sweat the hangover out of you. |
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