FabSwingers.com > Forums > Fabswingers.com site feedback > TV/CD and TS as separate categories?
TV/CD and TS as separate categories?
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By *oulerner OP Man
over a year ago
Dublin City |
This is something that has bothered me since joining the site: why are transvestites/crossdressers in the same gender category as transsexuals?
I get that the amount of transsexual people was potentially small enough when the site was founded 16 years ago that it wasn't warranted to give them their own category but I believe the times have changed. There are also non-binary and questioning people that might make up an even a separate category.
I can imagine that the old site structure might not support this change, but if it's at any possible, I would welcome this (imho) more inclusive change.  |
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It has been requested many time but nothing ever happens.
I agree they should be 2 separate sections but if they change it now they would have to cope with many many people wanting to change their profiles. It would need to be done manually for each person as I believe currently only admin can change that section of a profile once it is set.
I can see why they are reluctant. |
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By *oulerner OP Man
over a year ago
Dublin City |
"It has been requested many time but nothing ever happens.
I agree they should be 2 separate sections but if they change it now they would have to cope with many many people wanting to change their profiles. It would need to be done manually for each person as I believe currently only admin can change that section of a profile once it is set.
I can see why they are reluctant. "
There could be a "one time change token" for any that are currently in that category. I'm sure it's not easy to implement this change, but I think it would definitely be a strong QoL improvement for many people out there. |
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It’s one the strangest things about this site / swinging in general. You’d have thought that most people involved in this world would be the most forward thinking and innovative, but it’s often the case that this site and the clubs are way behind when it comes to gender, sexuality and identity. The options are so binary.
Don’t get me started on clubs still having ‘interracial nights’. |
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By *aliceWoman
over a year ago
Birmingham |
It won't change, even updating the outdated terms TV/TS would be a start in line with LGBT inclusive language. While many still identify with those terms, they're anachronistic as blanket terms.
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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago
Titz Towers, North Notts |
There are a lot of practical problems to splitting this category.
What counts as being TS?
Who gets to determine if someone is TS?
Is it the girls themselves, based on how they view their own gender?
Does this decision need to be justified to admin on Fab in some way? And if so, how?
Whether it is the intention or not, usually this question tends to boil down to can we have Tgirls who look like red hot pornstars in one category and everyone else in the other. |
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"There are a lot of practical problems to splitting this category.
What counts as being TS?
Who gets to determine if someone is TS?
Is it the girls themselves, based on how they view their own gender?
Does this decision need to be justified to admin on Fab in some way? And if so, how?
Whether it is the intention or not, usually this question tends to boil down to can we have Tgirls who look like red hot pornstars in one category and everyone else in the other. "
absolutely this  |
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"Quite a lot of mtf trans girls have had their category changed to woman on here too and rightly so "
Not rightly so at all. Transwomen are different to women. A transman was sentenced to prison time for not telling his partners he was trans a few months ago. It isnt hateful to point this out either before any such accusations are made. Any claim trans persons are not biologically different to the genfer category they identofy with is factually incorrect. |
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"There are a lot of practical problems to splitting this category.
What counts as being TS?
Who gets to determine if someone is TS?
Is it the girls themselves, based on how they view their own gender?
Does this decision need to be justified to admin on Fab in some way? And if so, how?
Whether it is the intention or not, usually this question tends to boil down to can we have Tgirls who look like red hot pornstars in one category and everyone else in the other. "
Sissy and cd as a category would be a kink category i guess as it isnt a medical/psychological phenomenon like gender dysphoria is (a transgender person is by definition someone who experiences gender dysphoria when not identofied by their preferred gender) |
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I floated this a while back on my list account and I had people DMing me threats and trying to expose me to my ex and all sorts.
The only people who should decide what gender they want to be referred to is themselves. No one should have that right taken from them, just because certain people can't possibly understand what they can't feel themselves.
I love trans women, but as I have my profile open to TS/TV it means I get inbox's from Gary, 46, who likes to dress as a women when he's away for the weekend. Nothing from with Gary expressing himself and finding his own way, but he's barking up the wrong tree and putting his hopes in the wrong places.
Fabswingers is about freedom, love and passion at its very core. Without widespread and modern values and acceptance that stands for nothing. Sort it out admins. |
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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago
Titz Towers, North Notts |
"I would love another section, i seem to get loads of messages for straight men who just want to unload on me probably because there wifes don't do it."
I know what you mean - I get this in clubs. Guys who haven't managed to get in with a couple or a woman will sidle up to me on a 'you'll be better than nothing' basis  |
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"I would love another section, i seem to get loads of messages for straight men who just want to unload on me probably because there wifes don't do it."
More like they are ar..holes, don't bring their wives into it |
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It's often discussed and there are strong, valid reasons for it to be the way it is. Search through the historic explanations. It is not for anyone to demand it, except for those of us in this legally protected characteristic. And certainly not for the ease etc, of others.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I’d just like to point out.
Transvestite is a fetish
I don’t get a thrill , or turn on from wearing women’s clothes.
I wear the clothes that suit my gender, what I feel comfortable in.
A transvestite is a CIS person.
I’m not a CIS person.
I’m a Trans Woman …( Legally )
I don’t go around looking like Lilo LIL ! |
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By *oanna88TV/TS
over a year ago
Here and There |
As a transvestite or crossdresser or hairy panty wearer, I feel that there maybe should be separate categories for TV vs TS.
My 'struggles' are far from the same as a transexual and in the nicest way possible I dont think that they are comparable. I'm never going to go through a change yet a TS may or already have. |
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"I’d just like to point out.
Transvestite is a fetish
I don’t get a thrill , or turn on from wearing women’s clothes.
I wear the clothes that suit my gender, what I feel comfortable in.
A transvestite is a CIS person.
I’m not a CIS person.
I’m a Trans Woman …( Legally )
I don’t go around looking like Lilo LIL !"
Many trans women are autogynaphilic according to research conducted by Blanchard and are fetishistic about their female identity. One of the problems with asking people to self identofy differentially between TS and TV is that they arent always discrete from each other |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This is something that has bothered me since joining the site: why are transvestites/crossdressers in the same gender category as transsexuals"
Who's gonna police it and deem who is in which category??
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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago
Titz Towers, North Notts |
"
Who's gonna police it and deem who is in which category??
"
This.
I said a few weeks ago:
There are a lot of practical problems to splitting this category.
What counts as being TS?
Who gets to determine if someone is TS?
Is it the girls themselves, based on how they view their own gender?
Does this decision need to be justified to admin on Fab in some way? And if so, how?
Whether it is the intention or not, usually this question tends to boil down to can we have Tgirls who look like red hot pornstars in one category and everyone else in the other. |
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"
Who's gonna police it and deem who is in which category??
This.
I said a few weeks ago:
There are a lot of practical problems to splitting this category.
What counts as being TS?
Who gets to determine if someone is TS?
Is it the girls themselves, based on how they view their own gender?
Does this decision need to be justified to admin on Fab in some way? And if so, how?
Whether it is the intention or not, usually this question tends to boil down to can we have Tgirls who look like red hot pornstars in one category and everyone else in the other."
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There are a lot of practical problems to splitting this category.
What counts as being TS?
Who gets to determine if someone is TS?
Is it the girls themselves, based on how they view their own gender?
Does this decision need to be justified to admin on Fab in some way? And if so, how?
Whether it is the intention or not, usually this question tends to boil down to can we have Tgirls who look like red hot pornstars in one category and everyone else in the other. "
What counts as TS? Well there's a lot of guidelines nowadays on what it means to be trans. The difference between living as a certain gender/non binary and being a cross dresser is pretty clear.
Who gets to determine if someone is TS? Down to the individual person obviously to choose whichever option they prefer (if they had the choice, that is!) do cis men and women have to prove they are the gender they choose when they sign up on here? No, so why should trans people or CDs?
I don't think it boils down to "red hot pornstars" and "not red hot pornstars" at all. If people can choose the option that fits them best, then more people would start to learn the difference between trans and CD. In our experience it's only further confused because we're all lumped in together. |
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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago
Titz Towers, North Notts |
"
What counts as TS? Well there's a lot of guidelines nowadays on what it means to be trans. The difference between living as a certain gender/non binary and being a cross dresser is pretty clear.
Who gets to determine if someone is TS? Down to the individual person obviously to choose whichever option they prefer (if they had the choice, that is!) do cis men and women have to prove they are the gender they choose when they sign up on here? No, so why should trans people or CDs?
I don't think it boils down to "red hot pornstars" and "not red hot pornstars" at all. If people can choose the option that fits them best, then more people would start to learn the difference between trans and CD. In our experience it's only further confused because we're all lumped in together. "
Some good points.
However, whilst each person can choose their own preference, this will probably not match up with the expectations others have of who should fit into that category.
It'll be nice for people to learn the nuances of gender, but I think a lot of the guys on here looking for a TG experience of some kind aren't that interested in gender nuance. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The expectations of others isn't really a factor for me to be honest, it's not our responsibility to manage their expectations. If they know what they're looking for, then that might even make it easier for them to find whoever they are looking for/not looking for. I don't see how it would take anything away from the profile choices we already have but that's something only the site owners can decide  |
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"
Who's gonna police it and deem who is in which category??
This.
I said a few weeks ago:
There are a lot of practical problems to splitting this category.
What counts as being TS?
Who gets to determine if someone is TS?
Is it the girls themselves, based on how they view their own gender?
Does this decision need to be justified to admin on Fab in some way? And if so, how?
Whether it is the intention or not, usually this question tends to boil down to can we have Tgirls who look like red hot pornstars in one category and everyone else in the other."
What about the male TS? You seem to be just focusing on girls |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Who's gonna police it and deem who is in which category??
This.
I said a few weeks ago:
There are a lot of practical problems to splitting this category.
What counts as being TS?
Who gets to determine if someone is TS?
Is it the girls themselves, based on how they view their own gender?
Does this decision need to be justified to admin on Fab in some way? And if so, how?
Whether it is the intention or not, usually this question tends to boil down to can we have Tgirls who look like red hot pornstars in one category and everyone else in the other.
What about the male TS? You seem to be just focusing on girls"
yep, we do exist on this site lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" it's not our responsibility to manage their expectations.
Too right!
It won't stop guys moaning that the TS they are messaging doesn't match what they were expecting  "
There will always be something for them to moan about :-L |
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Yes I agree, I think I should be in the colour less, one testicle, left handed, under five inches, uncut, blue eyed category, of which there are four of us, ooooh come on that's definitely two testicle's (get in your own category), ok three of us.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yes I agree, I think I should be in the colour less, one testicle, left handed, under five inches, uncut, blue eyed category, of which there are four of us, ooooh come on that's definitely two testicle's (get in your own category), ok three of us. "
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I wouldnt even know what to call myself on here. Im a guy who always wears lingerie under his drab and I adore women and submitting to them.
I have no body hair so cant be a hairy panty wearer.
When I dress fully I often submit to men too.
Sissy girly boy maybe? |
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Its been brought up many times over the years.
If its been brought up by a Transwoman then yes, its motivated by a desire to see some clear water between her experience, life and desires, and that of transvestites or crossdressers. And not wanting to be treated as the same.
If its brought up by men, CIS women or couples then no matter how empathetic they sound, in reality it's because they are tired of being messaged by Gary, the hairy overweight builder who has one set of lingerie he's stuffed in a kit bag in the tyre well of his car for 10 years and never washed. It's basically so they can have a separate block option for email to stop him messaging.
If they search, they want to be shown Libby Harkness or Mia Maffia, and not Gary.
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Alot of people request this change not so its inclusive…but so they can divide and choose what kind of trans person they are looking for. I actually like the fact there isnt a diffrent option…works in my favour tbh |
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"I wouldnt even know what to call myself on here. Im a guy who always wears lingerie under his drab and I adore women and submitting to them.
I have no body hair so cant be a hairy panty wearer.
When I dress fully I often submit to men too.
Sissy girly boy maybe?"
This country loves labels.
Gay bi trans non binary etc
They’re labels for others to understand u not for you to understand yourself, ive never understood labels
Personally i know im not a female, i also for sure am not a man, i dont even think im trans. But i also wouldnt want to be referred to as they/them
What i do know is
My names malaysia & im happy so fuck the labels |
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"Its been brought up many times over the years.
If its been brought up by a Transwoman then yes, its motivated by a desire to see some clear water between her experience, life and desires, and that of transvestites or crossdressers. And not wanting to be treated as the same.
If its brought up by men, CIS women or couples then no matter how empathetic they sound, in reality it's because they are tired of being messaged by Gary, the hairy overweight builder who has one set of lingerie he's stuffed in a kit bag in the tyre well of his car for 10 years and never washed. It's basically so they can have a separate block option for email to stop him messaging.
If they search, they want to be shown Libby Harkness or Mia Maffia, and not Gary.
"
Good ol gary |
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1. Gary the builder can categorise himself as a TS, unless the site stipulate some sort of proof you are going through transition.
This will just create a new issue of anyone being in that category.
2. A transgendered man or woman can both use the TS, or may feel they’re not represented correctly. What stops a non binary person using TS instead. As they don’t regard themselves as either gender.
3. However a transgendered person can add themselves to the site as a man or woman. So how many TS on the site would ever use the new category?
4. What’s the percentage of TV/TS on the site, if we are less than 10% why bother with such a minority group ? Also from that group how many are paying as why bother if the majority are not contributing to the site ?
5. Pre or post op, on a site like this how long before some are complaining that post op TS are within the category. Surely the majority are looking for the boobs and penis with a future sex meet with a TS.
Let’s be honest, looking at the ‘hot photos’ what people (men especially) want is convincing/ passing TV/TS on the site. The porn sites that have a category for TV/TS the majority of those performers will still have a cock and big breasts. So anyone wanting to experiment with a TS, will be more likely looking for that sort of meet.
This isn’t a dating site, it’s a place for people to have sexual experiences and the reality is, it’s all down to finding that person attractive or intriguing.
As much as I think removing the TS from the TV/TS category I think TV/ CD would be better, it’ll never happen. We are a minority on the site and I think we always will be.
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"There are a lot of practical problems to splitting this category.
What counts as being TS?
Who gets to determine if someone is TS?
Is it the girls themselves, based on how they view their own gender?
Does this decision need to be justified to admin on Fab in some way? And if so, how?
Whether it is the intention or not, usually this question tends to boil down to can we have Tgirls who look like red hot pornstars in one category and everyone else in the other. "
Absolutely!
I mean what catagory would others put me in? Would i still be accepted by moderators as a man, because thats what i identify as? But the way i like to look may lead to other assumtions. Am i man who looks like a TV/CD etc?
Ive had pictures rejected as im "not in the picture" yes i am! Thats me there in thigh high boots.  |
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By *WINGStars23Couple
over a year ago
Chorley, & East Lanc's |
We agree with this.
Each gender should have its own category. And you should be able to filter which categories you want contact from or not, as well as who can view your profile. It's time for a site overhaul. |
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By *WINGStars23Couple
over a year ago
Chorley, & East Lanc's |
We agree with this.
Each gender should have its own category. And you should be able to filter which categories you want contact from or not, as well as who can view your profile. It's time for a site overhaul. |
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"We agree with this.
Each gender should have its own category. And you should be able to filter which categories you want contact from or not, as well as who can view your profile. It's time for a site overhaul."
it's worked fine all these years. Do you really want to open up a can of worms |
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"We agree with this.
Each gender should have its own category. And you should be able to filter which categories you want contact from or not, as well as who can view your profile. It's time for a site overhaul."
So how do you stop a guy who just wears lingerie adding himself to a TS category ?
Do you stop transgender women from the women category or do they have to add themselves to a TS category ?
If they are post op, still TS or woman category ?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We agree with this.
Each gender should have its own category."
Like ive said always on this,who is to police it and deem who is in which category
LGBT has recently had Q and + added,where will it all end ? All wearing little badges too identify each other like at secondary school,Prefect, librarian,Hockey Captain etc etc.
Those who are content with themselves dont see or feel the need to be labelled,least of all by others |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Don’t get me started on clubs still having ‘interracial nights’. "
As a mixed race person believe me, it's something thatc has definitely put me off.
I once asked about going to a night, but wasn't dark enough lmao |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We agree with this.
Each gender should have its own category.
Like ive said always on this,who is to police it and deem who is in which category
LGBT has recently had Q and + added,where will it all end ? All wearing little badges too identify each other like at secondary school,Prefect, librarian,Hockey Captain etc etc.
Those who are content with themselves dont see or feel the need to be labelled,least of all by others "
Utter rubbish, if you don't like being labelled you are more than welcome to hold that opinion but you don't speak for others who do want something different from the site. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If you are happy with the choices you have from the site, then adding other genders and separating CD and TS/TG makes absolutely no difference to you! You can carry on and use the site as you usually would. Why is this so hard for some people to understand? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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They are all male, so what does it matter if they put on 'woman face' for part of the day, or all of it?
Too many "straight" men on here shagging men dressed up 'as women', rather than just admitting they are bi or even gay. Time to leave. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They are all male, so what does it matter if they put on 'woman face' for part of the day, or all of it?
Too many "straight" men on here shagging men dressed up 'as women', rather than just admitting they are bi or even gay. Time to leave. "
This made me cackle! |
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"It has been requested many time but nothing ever happens.
I agree they should be 2 separate sections but if they change it now they would have to cope with many many people wanting to change their profiles. It would need to be done manually for each person as I believe currently only admin can change that section of a profile once it is set.
I can see why they are reluctant. "
I think it is not simply reluctance, more a case of can't be bothered. Let's face it, whilst people are willing to pay for the extras the owners have no incentive to bring the site up to date.
As for the editing of the profiles, shouldn't be too difficult to add programming to allow the individuals to edit their own status. |
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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago
Titz Towers, North Notts |
"They are all male, so what does it matter if they put on 'woman face' for part of the day, or all of it?
Too many "straight" men on here shagging men dressed up 'as women', rather than just admitting they are bi or even gay. Time to leave. "
I bet they've got an interesting search history |
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"They are all male, so what does it matter if they put on 'woman face' for part of the day, or all of it?
Too many "straight" men on here shagging men dressed up 'as women', rather than just admitting they are bi or even gay. Time to leave. "
Thank god this user is no longer on the site! |
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"They are all male, so what does it matter if they put on 'woman face' for part of the day, or all of it?
Too many "straight" men on here shagging men dressed up 'as women', rather than just admitting they are bi or even gay. Time to leave.
Thank god this user is no longer on the site! "
can you imagine if they were still on the site |
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"They are all male, so what does it matter if they put on 'woman face' for part of the day, or all of it?
Too many "straight" men on here shagging men dressed up 'as women', rather than just admitting they are bi or even gay. Time to leave.
Thank god this user is no longer on the site! can you imagine if they were still on the site "
Don’t need people like that on here |
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"They are all male, so what does it matter if they put on 'woman face' for part of the day, or all of it?
Too many "straight" men on here shagging men dressed up 'as women', rather than just admitting they are bi or even gay. Time to leave.
Thank god this user is no longer on the site! can you imagine if they were still on the site
Don’t need people like that on here"
oh don't get me wrong I 100%agree with you on that. |
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By *lextvTV/TS
over a year ago
Paddington |
Its a difficult one, I myself am a part time crossdresser but I dont really think I’m in the same group as Gary 48 who wears womens panties, nor am I in the same group as Gemma 28, with tits and living as a woman 24/7.
I guess even if they made a different catergory, the lines would still be blurred.
Also on this site, there are 100s of men who say “no TV/TS” yet still message us and find us to chat to.
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By *WINGStars23Couple
over a year ago
Chorley, & East Lanc's |
For those who are unawear, Fab has more than one site it has fabguys for guys looking for guys too. Would another site for those who are and for those seeking TVs/CDs be more beneficial? We think the numbers of TVs/CDs are increasing on fab, and if a site fit for purpose is of interest. Start a new thread asking admin to build it? Just an idea. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I don’t see the need for separate sites - it’s just bringing the site up to date. However, I feel like people are really over complicating the issue - as someone said above it should be about how that person views themselves rather than some weird rule about judging how ‘passable’ people are to be considered for that category. I feel like literally no other site - be it swinging or dating is so contentious about this subject. |
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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago
Titz Towers, North Notts |
"For those who are unawear, Fab has more than one site it has fabguys for guys looking for guys too. Would another site for those who are and for those seeking TVs/CDs be more beneficial? We think the numbers of TVs/CDs are increasing on fab, and if a site fit for purpose is of interest. Start a new thread asking admin to build it? Just an idea."
I like how inclusive it is on here, without Trans being shunted off to another place. |
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"I don’t see the need for separate sites - it’s just bringing the site up to date. However, I feel like people are really over complicating the issue - as someone said above it should be about how that person views themselves rather than some weird rule about judging how ‘passable’ people are to be considered for that category. I feel like literally no other site - be it swinging or dating is so contentious about this subject."
Then if we go with how people ‘view themselves’ then the TS/TV or even CD category should be removed all together.
A Trans woman (TS) is not a Transvestite (TV or CD) so if a guy, woman or couple actively searching on here for a TS woman only finds lingerie clad men on that search area it’s function, is useless.
Separate the categories properly or it’ll be open to abuse or remove it totally and rely that people will read profiles.
We the TV/TS community are only a small part of the swinging scene, but we are constantly wanting the site to accommodate us. Some Trans women especially post Op, will be on here as women not TV/TS, so splitting the categories is a waste of time.
So view yourself as you wish, but if you truly want a workable category system then it needs policing properly or it’s a waste of effort for the site. |
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"It has been requested many time but nothing ever happens.
I agree they should be 2 separate sections but if they change it now they would have to cope with many many people wanting to change their profiles. It would need to be done manually for each person as I believe currently only admin can change that section of a profile once it is set.
I can see why they are reluctant. "
It needs to happen |
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"It has been requested many time but nothing ever happens.
I agree they should be 2 separate sections but if they change it now they would have to cope with many many people wanting to change their profiles. It would need to be done manually for each person as I believe currently only admin can change that section of a profile once it is set.
I can see why they are reluctant.
It needs to happen "
No it’s doesn’t |
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"It has been requested many time but nothing ever happens.
I agree they should be 2 separate sections but if they change it now they would have to cope with many many people wanting to change their profiles. It would need to be done manually for each person as I believe currently only admin can change that section of a profile once it is set.
I can see why they are reluctant.
It needs to happen
No it’s doesn’t "
no it really doesn't. Why make, things more problematic |
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