FabSwingers.com > Forums > Ireland > Play with my Clit Not with my Heart
Play with my Clit Not with my Heart
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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So Girls , for those of you experience at NSA .... and manage to leave your emotions at the door and enjoy some really hot fun with out complication
What advice would u give to the Novice women here and novice men that don't know how to play the game ?
Stating wheather u fall under monogamous/ poloyamerous or any of the other titles
Kara x
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By *oghunter33Woman
over a year ago
on the hill NordWest of |
If you find a fwb and you want to keep it at that, don't meet too often and go on meeting others. The more regular you meet the bigger the chance it becomes something different or falls appart in shortest time because one feels locked in.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Compartmentalise!
I see those interactions as beautiful, welcomed moments to be seized when possible and embraced.....then back to my life.
It's escapism. It fulfills many needs. It can be intimate and affectionate, hot and raw and still not allow for feelings to develop. I care for the guys I've repeatedly met and established connections/friendships but all kept at arm's length from the rest of my life.
My only other advice is to set the rule 'when it stops being fun, it stops altogether'.
Enjoy OP x |
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"Compartmentalise!
I see those interactions as beautiful, welcomed moments to be seized when possible and embraced.....then back to my life.
It's escapism. It fulfills many needs. It can be intimate and affectionate, hot and raw and still not allow for feelings to develop. I care for the guys I've repeatedly met and established connections/friendships but all kept at arm's length from the rest of my life.
My only other advice is to set the rule 'when it stops being fun, it stops altogether'.
Enjoy OP x"
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I don't fuck people whose company I don't enjoy, so if I like someone enough to fuck them regularly, I probably like them enough to date them, so this is a really tricky one for me.
If someone is looking for a regular FWB, I let them know that's not something I'm interested in upfront.
If I meet them and don't like them the problem resolves itself!
If I do, I try see if (in general) they're open to the possibility of something more developing from a casual meet - if not, I shut it down.
I have zero interest in trying to change myself or how my heart works though! This is just how I am, there's nothing wrong with it, anyone who's not cool with that is free to not fuck me  |
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"If you find a fwb and you want to keep it at that, don't meet too often and go on meeting others. The more regular you meet the bigger the chance it becomes something different or falls appart in shortest time because one feels locked in. "
Could not agree more!! |
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Being human you can't stop your emotions are feelings there has to something attraction intentions instincts....
For me only I can't run on instincts I can set my intentions in what I want and bring to the person my emotions can't become me.....which in turn lessing the emotional entanglement that can happen if you let your emotions and instincts run wild  |
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Interesting points. I get the impression from a lot of people i chat to on here, they want more thN fb. They just havent stated that. There are a core of fabers, who do live that lifestyle and are very very happy with it. Im not sure its the majority though |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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This is something that was on my mind. I'm completly new to this. Only ever had sex in relationships and found this. I've been chatting to someone for a long time now but we going to meet when lockdown ends. It's been nice getting to know them but always wondered what if either one of us developed feelings and what to do. She is in an open relationship and I am single. Good thread for me to read |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don't fuck people whose company I don't enjoy, so if I like someone enough to fuck them regularly, I probably like them enough to date them, so this is a really tricky one for me.
If someone is looking for a regular FWB, I let them know that's not something I'm interested in upfront.
If I meet them and don't like them the problem resolves itself!
If I do, I try see if (in general) they're open to the possibility of something more developing from a casual meet - if not, I shut it down.
I have zero interest in trying to change myself or how my heart works though! This is just how I am, there's nothing wrong with it, anyone who's not cool with that is free to not fuck me "
What works for one my not work for everyone I think it's just each to there own I no I try not to see them too much but I could see them every day if wanted |
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"I don't fuck people whose company I don't enjoy, so if I like someone enough to fuck them regularly, I probably like them enough to date them, so this is a really tricky one for me.
If someone is looking for a regular FWB, I let them know that's not something I'm interested in upfront.
If I meet them and don't like them the problem resolves itself!
If I do, I try see if (in general) they're open to the possibility of something more developing from a casual meet - if not, I shut it down.
I have zero interest in trying to change myself or how my heart works though! This is just how I am, there's nothing wrong with it, anyone who's not cool with that is free to not fuck me "
Completely agree with this. People all have different goals here and being upfront about them is the key to success. I've had some fairly successful long term fb situations and I've also had some where feelings developed over time. It happens. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"If you find a fwb and you want to keep it at that, don't meet too often and go on meeting others. The more regular you meet the bigger the chance it becomes something different or falls appart in shortest time because one feels locked in. "
Brilliant advice , this is definitely a good rule to keep intact...that is if u have good willpower ha ha ha |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Compartmentalise!
I see those interactions as beautiful, welcomed moments to be seized when possible and embraced.....then back to my life.
It's escapism. It fulfills many needs. It can be intimate and affectionate, hot and raw and still not allow for feelings to develop. I care for the guys I've repeatedly met and established connections/friendships but all kept at arm's length from the rest of my life.
My only other advice is to set the rule 'when it stops being fun, it stops altogether'.
Enjoy OP x"
escapism... gosh isn't that what it's all about, having a little binge on something only to come out full to the belly after wards of what u desire . Perhaps not to share to much personal information that cud building that romantic connection |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I don't fuck people whose company I don't enjoy, so if I like someone enough to fuck them regularly, I probably like them enough to date them, so this is a really tricky one for me.
If someone is looking for a regular FWB, I let them know that's not something I'm interested in upfront.
If I meet them and don't like them the problem resolves itself!
If I do, I try see if (in general) they're open to the possibility of something more developing from a casual meet - if not, I shut it down.
I have zero interest in trying to change myself or how my heart works though! This is just how I am, there's nothing wrong with it, anyone who's not cool with that is free to not fuck me "
Setting some ground rules to protect u and them from the offest is a great way of keeping things straight.
Consistency is key with this , sometimes we don't make this clear as we get carried away.
Going into it with no guidelines can get messy indeed. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"This is something that was on my mind. I'm completly new to this. Only ever had sex in relationships and found this. I've been chatting to someone for a long time now but we going to meet when lockdown ends. It's been nice getting to know them but always wondered what if either one of us developed feelings and what to do. She is in an open relationship and I am single. Good thread for me to read "
For ME this spells danger , I feel building that connection , chatting for a long time , is veering more away from sex and more towards romance if your share more day to day details as to jsut pure sex talk . You might get lucky , meet and its a 1 off , but if there's something abit more there , it sounds like someone may come out a little bit hurt . But hey that's just my spin |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Interesting points. I get the impression from a lot of people i chat to on here, they want more thN fb. They just havent stated that. There are a core of fabers, who do live that lifestyle and are very very happy with it. Im not sure its the majority though"
yes and this is where we seperate into Polyamourous and Monogamous. Alot of long swingers are living the poly life , where singles perhaps are Monogamous or unsure . Knowing which one you are make things much more simple as does asking these questions
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"Interesting points. I get the impression from a lot of people i chat to on here, they want more thN fb. They just havent stated that. There are a core of fabers, who do live that lifestyle and are very very happy with it. Im not sure its the majority though yes and this is where we seperate into Polyamourous and Monogamous. Alot of long swingers are living the poly life , where singles perhaps are Monogamous or unsure . Knowing which one you are make things much more simple as does asking these questions "
I agree. Saving any future stress! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Compartmentalise!
I see those interactions as beautiful, welcomed moments to be seized when possible and embraced.....then back to my life.
It's escapism. It fulfills many needs. It can be intimate and affectionate, hot and raw and still not allow for feelings to develop. I care for the guys I've repeatedly met and established connections/friendships but all kept at arm's length from the rest of my life.
My only other advice is to set the rule 'when it stops being fun, it stops altogether'.
Enjoy OP x escapism... gosh isn't that what it's all about, having a little binge on something only to come out full to the belly after wards of what u desire . Perhaps not to share to much personal information that cud building that romantic connection "
The only thing we can give each other is time.. Gotta grab that and appreciate it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This is something that was on my mind. I'm completly new to this. Only ever had sex in relationships and found this. I've been chatting to someone for a long time now but we going to meet when lockdown ends. It's been nice getting to know them but always wondered what if either one of us developed feelings and what to do. She is in an open relationship and I am single. Good thread for me to read For ME this spells danger , I feel building that connection , chatting for a long time , is veering more away from sex and more towards romance if your share more day to day details as to jsut pure sex talk . You might get lucky , meet and its a 1 off , but if there's something abit more there , it sounds like someone may come out a little bit hurt . But hey that's just my spin"
This is interesting as i only joined in lockdown so its a totally different Fab environment, no turnover essentially lol, and how to maintain interest over months of not being able to meet... without it going friendzoney/more caring & sharing than it should be  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"This is something that was on my mind. I'm completly new to this. Only ever had sex in relationships and found this. I've been chatting to someone for a long time now but we going to meet when lockdown ends. It's been nice getting to know them but always wondered what if either one of us developed feelings and what to do. She is in an open relationship and I am single. Good thread for me to read For ME this spells danger , I feel building that connection , chatting for a long time , is veering more away from sex and more towards romance if your share more day to day details as to jsut pure sex talk . You might get lucky , meet and its a 1 off , but if there's something abit more there , it sounds like someone may come out a little bit hurt . But hey that's just my spin
This is interesting as i only joined in lockdown so its a totally different Fab environment, no turnover essentially lol, and how to maintain interest over months of not being able to meet... without it going friendzoney/more caring & sharing than it should be "
Yeah that is very difficult! Well when u do get back out there meeting peeps... maybe have w few on rotate so u don't get attached to any of your penpals |
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By *adylaceWoman
over a year ago
Waterford City |
This is a really interesting thread.
I would have struggled with managing feelings when I first started out here but after 9 years I feel that I am better at controlling things. I now have some genuine friends here that I love dearly and used to meet regularly enough pre covid. But we are all playing this fab game long enough to have an idea what we're at.
For me communication is key. You need to be open with whoever you are meeting about what it means to you and what you are looking for and hope that they are open and honest with you too. Also be honest with yourself. There is nothing wrong with wanting a commitment with a little kink added to it.
It can be a minefield at first. I have been burned in the past and have unintentionally hurt people that I cared about. But the good totally makes up for the bad.
Sorry for rambling on. xx |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Emotionless and cold encounters would not mean anything for anyone really. We are naturally impulsed to feel and now we all crave this more than ever. But perhaps its better to keep a good balance of things. Don't get too attached or dependant. At the end it has to be a joyful experience. I personally love intense experienses. Its worth the cost. |
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"Setting some ground rules to protect u and them from the offest is a great way of keeping things straight.
Consistency is key with this , sometimes we don't make this clear as we get carried away.
Going into it with no guidelines can get messy indeed. "
Emotions don't follow rules though. I just don't get myself involved with men who aren't on the same page as me ¯\_ _/¯ |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"This is a really interesting thread.
I would have struggled with managing feelings when I first started out here but after 9 years I feel that I am better at controlling things. I now have some genuine friends here that I love dearly and used to meet regularly enough pre covid. But we are all playing this fab game long enough to have an idea what we're at.
For me communication is key. You need to be open with whoever you are meeting about what it means to you and what you are looking for and hope that they are open and honest with you too. Also be honest with yourself. There is nothing wrong with wanting a commitment with a little kink added to it.
It can be a minefield at first. I have been burned in the past and have unintentionally hurt people that I cared about. But the good totally makes up for the bad.
Sorry for rambling on. xx"
yes, it's tricky , trying not to hurt the feelings of the other , but it can happen, but there.are generally warning signs , and thats when one with experience decides to exit stage, but once a disclaimer is given at the start , it's only the fault of the person who gets hurt , well that is, if they are of Sound mind!  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Emotionless and cold encounters would not mean anything for anyone really. We are naturally impulsed to feel and now we all crave this more than ever. But perhaps its better to keep a good balance of things. Don't get too attached or dependant. At the end it has to be a joyful experience. I personally love intense experienses. Its worth the cost. "
Emotionless is safer is ur a monogamous kind, you can build a strong connection souly on your love for sex , without getting into person stuff , once personal non sexuql stuff comes into play , your building a non sexual relationship as well with the person . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This is something that was on my mind. I'm completly new to this. Only ever had sex in relationships and found this. I've been chatting to someone for a long time now but we going to meet when lockdown ends. It's been nice getting to know them but always wondered what if either one of us developed feelings and what to do. She is in an open relationship and I am single. Good thread for me to read For ME this spells danger , I feel building that connection , chatting for a long time , is veering more away from sex and more towards romance if your share more day to day details as to jsut pure sex talk . You might get lucky , meet and its a 1 off , but if there's something abit more there , it sounds like someone may come out a little bit hurt . But hey that's just my spin
This is interesting as i only joined in lockdown so its a totally different Fab environment, no turnover essentially lol, and how to maintain interest over months of not being able to meet... without it going friendzoney/more caring & sharing than it should be "
Yeah I get what you both saying. I only joined in lockdown too. Yeah we pretty much always talk about sex, but also just getting to know each other too, we have quite a list of things we want to do going!! But yeah we have chatted everyday for about couple months now. Like we are both like, yeah no relationship just fun. We know the position we both in. I will be super careful that we on same page and neither get hurt. I dont like hurting anyone or getting hurt. Like I said all this is really new to me and this is an interesting thread to read |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Personally i think talking everyday is a bad idea as it becomes a habit/expectation of regular contact. Especially over an extended period. Even that can cause hurt or confusion if it doesnt happen then. |
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By *iamo69Man
over a year ago
South |
It's hard to leave at door if it's an ongoing fb thing
I have had one perticaular girl I was a fb too for over a year.. The odd text during the week nothing much we would meet every 2 weeks or so.
Went on for over a year. We would meet for fun but most times spend the entire weekend with each other buzzing
Was out one night after we hadn't seen each other bar few texts and I bumped into her with another guy in a bar.. I was with someone too..
We both got realy embaresed and could barely look at each other.
I text her saying look I'm leaving in few to go somewhere else relax.
She text me later that night saying she got all flustered like seeing her bf with another girl.. And too be honest I was kinda same. We did meet again after a few coffees and odd drink but never as a rule went home with each other as it was obviously effecting us.
But then again we were over a year as fbuddys not couple months so maybe why was getting to us
Now we just say hello in street when we early meet. That's life tho |
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I wonder how much of the “feelings” side stems from religion and the fact were taught “sex is bad” from an early age. Therefore people need to have a reason to have sex. Ie feelings or connections.
Theres cultures out there that are more evolved in sexual predilections. “Hookup” culture is becoming normalised with the youth. Its brings no commitment. They, in general, dont seem to have the issue of separating the 2.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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So if u were to write a list of rules/ guidelines for NSA
Maybe somewhere between 1-5 rules just to play it safe !
What would ur
No.1 - No.5 .... be? |
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By *ettaManMan
over a year ago
Kerry and Dublin |
"Perhaps not to share to much personal information that cud building that romantic connection "
Avoid asking the 36 questions in this article :
https://www.her.ie/life/study-shows-this-test-can-make-anyone-fall-in-love-with-you-213371 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Emotionless and cold encounters would not mean anything for anyone really. We are naturally impulsed to feel and now we all crave this more than ever. But perhaps its better to keep a good balance of things. Don't get too attached or dependant. At the end it has to be a joyful experience. I personally love intense experienses. Its worth the cost.
Emotionless is safer is ur a monogamous kind, you can build a strong connection souly on your love for sex , without getting into person stuff , once personal non sexuql stuff comes into play , your building a non sexual relationship as well with the person . "
Well I think you can have a strong personal connection with someone without getting into a drama. A FWB scenario where both parts are in an equal understanding of what they want and it doesn't have to be exclusive either..... But yeah that in an ideal world |
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"Emotionless and cold encounters would not mean anything for anyone really. We are naturally impulsed to feel and now we all crave this more than ever. But perhaps its better to keep a good balance of things. Don't get too attached or dependant. At the end it has to be a joyful experience. I personally love intense experienses. Its worth the cost.
Emotionless is safer is ur a monogamous kind, you can build a strong connection souly on your love for sex , without getting into person stuff , once personal non sexuql stuff comes into play , your building a non sexual relationship as well with the person .
Well I think you can have a strong personal connection with someone without getting into a drama. A FWB scenario where both parts are in an equal understanding of what they want and it doesn't have to be exclusive either..... But yeah that in an ideal world "
Agree! "Strings" doesn't always equal drama and some people don't want to avoid the non sexual part... connection, intimacy etc is a good thing for me! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I don't do FB Fwb or anything casual , for me those type of setups are a waste of time and really don't see the point in putting any time or effort in to a set up like that at all . When we could I enjoyed the social side of the parties clubs etc. However I will occasionally met the odd single guy if they take my fancy but I'd very rarely do a repeat. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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so what is FWB if its not a connection? personally im with Peachbum on this one, I dont want to/cant seperate the two as i like getting to know people. Ill go with any scenario that suits in the moment and is agreeable to both, bar monogamy or co-dependancy! |
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By *adame BWoman
over a year ago
C'est moi Boudoir |
It's a tightrope as the more you meet, the better the sex because you are figuring out each others likes and dislikes also emotions may blur the lines. I have had two fab founded relationships but I have also had regular people who I can meet up with and I think there is no black and white answer here except if you are going to connect with someone on an emotional level that is going to happen regardless. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"so what is FWB if its not a connection? personally im with Peachbum on this one, I dont want to/cant seperate the two as i like getting to know people. Ill go with any scenario that suits in the moment and is agreeable to both, bar monogamy or co-dependancy!"
This would be a interesting forum for u to post again on, perhaps in a year's time and see if the perspective is the same |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"It's a tightrope as the more you meet, the better the sex because you are figuring out each others likes and dislikes also emotions may blur the lines. I have had two fab founded relationships but I have also had regular people who I can meet up with and I think there is no black and white answer here except if you are going to connect with someone on an emotional level that is going to happen regardless. "
yes . So perhaps the advice is to scrafice your feeling for that much better sexual connection
Or
Get your fix for sex that is just nearly as good with out making that emotional connection ( be like a Dog not like a Swan lmao)
I choose the latter! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don't fuck people whose company I don't enjoy, so if I like someone enough to fuck them regularly, I probably like them enough to date them, so this is a really tricky one for me.
If someone is looking for a regular FWB, I let them know that's not something I'm interested in upfront.
If I meet them and don't like them the problem resolves itself!
If I do, I try see if (in general) they're open to the possibility of something more developing from a casual meet - if not, I shut it down.
I have zero interest in trying to change myself or how my heart works though! This is just how I am, there's nothing wrong with it, anyone who's not cool with that is free to not fuck me "
Brilliantly put. |
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"so what is FWB if its not a connection? personally im with Peachbum on this one, I dont want to/cant seperate the two as i like getting to know people. Ill go with any scenario that suits in the moment and is agreeable to both, bar monogamy or co-dependancy!"
Yes I'm the same, a friend with benefits is surely in the name?
To be friends, any type of friend you need a connection. I don't want to separate either. I like it.
I enjoy the connection, I want that connection, again the same though I don't want monogamy or co-dependency.
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" yes . So perhaps the advice is to scrafice your feeling for that much better sexual connection
Or
Get your fix for sex that is just nearly as good with out making that emotional connection ( be like a Dog not like a Swan lmao)
I choose the latter! "
But...why not both? Feelings and sexual connection?? You can have both! |
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As previously said by some here emotionless and cold encounters would not appeal to me at all and this is where communication is the key. Be open and honest at all times. Don't let there be any blurred lines and respect feelings at all times. |
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By *ustBoWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in Co. Down |
"As previously said by some here emotionless and cold encounters would not appeal to me at all and this is where communication is the key. Be open and honest at all times. Don't let there be any blurred lines and respect feelings at all times. "
This is spot on. |
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only certain people in life can do the no strings thing and keep it purely no strings. you don't want a whole heap of overriding emotion and seeing a tonne of one another. thats more than no strings. |
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Different things work for different people. Personally I prefer one off meets if I'm meeting alone. If I enjoy chatting to them and we want to meet again then it's just friendly and no naughty stuff. |
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By *adame BWoman
over a year ago
C'est moi Boudoir |
"It's a tightrope as the more you meet, the better the sex because you are figuring out each others likes and dislikes also emotions may blur the lines. I have had two fab founded relationships but I have also had regular people who I can meet up with and I think there is no black and white answer here except if you are going to connect with someone on an emotional level that is going to happen regardless. yes . So perhaps the advice is to scrafice your feeling for that much better sexual connection
Or
Get your fix for sex that is just nearly as good with out making that emotional connection ( be like a Dog not like a Swan lmao)
I choose the latter! "
Good for you.
I find if I don't know the person at all...that's fucking. I enjoy more connected interactions and this can be achieved casually.
And no, it's no where near as good. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Does 'NSA' apply to friendship forming as well, or just to romantic relationships? Hookups wouldn't be our thing so I guess we're not looking for NSA either "
NSA, to me, means no romantic feelings forming. Friendships forming isn’t a bad thing as long as the sex doesn’t ruin it for anybody. |
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By *adame BWoman
over a year ago
C'est moi Boudoir |
"Does 'NSA' apply to friendship forming as well, or just to romantic relationships? Hookups wouldn't be our thing so I guess we're not looking for NSA either
NSA, to me, means no romantic feelings forming. Friendships forming isn’t a bad thing as long as the sex doesn’t ruin it for anybody."
Romantic would be my understanding of it as well like FWB.
It is absolutely possible to be friends and have amazing sex. Yes it can be a slippery slope if emotions come into it. But there is a difference between being emotionally connected to someone and having a connection with someone sexually that you get on well with. |
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By *dfabMan
over a year ago
Dunboyne |
From my life 20yrs ago.
I had friendships with the women I slept with but they all knew I had a girlfriend.
Difference being I loved her and liked them.
I never loved any of them but I loved being with them during our time together.
I think males can separate emotions between people like this.
All of them had other partners, some permanent and some not quite.
Didn't matter.
We knew we were together just for sex and discovering.
I knew they were trying things with me before trying with their other half and I was happy to be their guinea pig as it were.
My mind has absolutely no problem differentiating between the people I fuck and the people I make love to but I don't see why I can't be friends with both.
I always have been but made sure that the two didn't meet.
Well, actually, 2 of the women I used have sex with regularly did know each other and knew I was sleeping with both of them.
Wish I'd been more adventurous then and brought them together for a threesome.
And I thought I was kinky then |
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I started off here as a couple which began away from the site. I'm not sure I'd imagine meeting a partner on here as anyone I'd meet, some distance would usually be preferred. I always found sex better after getting to know how each others bodies work, so a FWB situation appeals to me. Life can be life away from this and a certain need can be filled through connections on this then. For sure it has the potential to be a minefield as we're all human. I guess starting off with some guidelines is always a good start |
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"So Girls , for those of you experience at NSA .... and manage to leave your emotions at the door and enjoy some really hot fun with out complication
What advice would u give to the Novice women here and novice men that don't know how to play the game ?
Stating wheather u fall under monogamous/ poloyamerous or any of the other titles
Kara x
"
Don’t be a bitch of an asshole as word gets around. |
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Totally Agree with the Above Lol!!
I'm a very connective person.. dont get me wrong i enjoy aesthetics as much as the next person.. but i know when i connect with someone it brings a heightened level of euphoria and pleasure for both.. you dont need to be in love with the person or anything of the like, but to be connected and considerate to another person will alway heighten intensity and stimulation
Less we forget that your brain is by far and large your greatest sexual organ!   |
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"Compartmentalise!
I see those interactions as beautiful, welcomed moments to be seized when possible and embraced.....then back to my life.
It's escapism. It fulfills many needs. It can be intimate and affectionate, hot and raw and still not allow for feelings to develop. I care for the guys I've repeatedly met and established connections/friendships but all kept at arm's length from the rest of my life.
My only other advice is to set the rule 'when it stops being fun, it stops altogether'.
Enjoy OP x"
I think you have nailed it there..its about fun not pain |
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'Play with my clit, not with my heart 
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