FabSwingers.com > Forums > Ireland > Mens violence toward women
Mens violence toward women
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By *ar0001 OP Man
over a year ago
Bray, Wicklow |
I think we men have a duty to stand up and publicly state that we find any violence against women disgusting and totally unacceptable.
There is no acceptable excuse.
Men who are contemplating this violence need to know that other men would be disgusted if they found out and that society has moved on from such behaviour. Hopefully knowing this (and fear of the shame etc) would help discourage the behaviour.
These women are our mothers, daughters, sisters, friends, partners, cousins, complete strangers, whatever. Surely we men owe them this much.
Are men morally obliged to step up?
How do we make the statement effectively? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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A touch of white knight about this 1, men are far more likely to be victims of violence than women but there is no outcry about that, some balance is needed here |
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Where should we stand up and make this proclamation?
On here? Completely pointless as only a tiny percentage of fabbers use the forums and those that might think it is acceptable won't be dissuaded by a few comments on here.
We haven't just moved on by the way. It was never acceptable and the only people who have moved on are those who have moved on to a different agenda.
I've lived in a violent society all my life where those who advocated violence were told it wasn't acceptable and it fell on deaf ears.
Actions speak louder than words. |
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By *ustBoWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in Co. Down |
I would think the majority of men think violence against women is disgusting. Just like the majority of women feel the same way about violence towards men.
Everyone who is a victim of violence is someone's family member to me gender doesn't come into it. Violence is wrong full stop, especially when it is done to control another person. And someone living their life in fear of when the next beating will come and for what reason is horrific. But I can't see how posting on here will make a blind bit of difference because those who have that mentality don't care, in their head they are right and they always have a way to justify it in their own heads. |
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I'm quite uncomfortable with this guy getting called out for whiteknighting for this post. I feel he is legitimately asking how we make a statement effectively about this. I don't know the answer, but I do know that it's more than OK for men to try and take a stand against male violence against women, and it's kinda scummy to try and call men (or women) out for doing something wrong when they try and talk about it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A touch of white knight about this 1, men are far more likely to be victims of violence than women but there is no outcry about that, some balance is needed here"
Yes they are, but it's in the majority violence by men.
I agree that all violence is wrong but saying that doesn't fix any problems.
We as a culture definitely had a major problem with violence towards women. There us no harm is addressing that without needing any "whataboutery" arguments |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm quite uncomfortable with this guy getting called out for whiteknighting for this post. I feel he is legitimately asking how we make a statement effectively about this. I don't know the answer, but I do know that it's more than OK for men to try and take a stand against male violence against women, and it's kinda scummy to try and call men (or women) out for doing something wrong when they try and talk about it. "
Agreed.
From what Im seeing the current challenge is for men to call out other men when they see or hear misogynistic behaviour.
To recognise it and be proactive rather than uncomfortable, tolerant or turning a blind eye to it.
This is a cultural shift *in general* and it should be ok to talk about it. |
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"I'm quite uncomfortable with this guy getting called out for whiteknighting for this post. I feel he is legitimately asking how we make a statement effectively about this. I don't know the answer, but I do know that it's more than OK for men to try and take a stand against male violence against women, and it's kinda scummy to try and call men (or women) out for doing something wrong when they try and talk about it.
Agreed.
From what Im seeing the current challenge is for men to call out other men when they see or hear misogynistic behaviour.
To recognise it and be proactive rather than uncomfortable, tolerant or turning a blind eye to it.
This is a cultural shift *in general* and it should be ok to talk about it. "
would you intervene if you saw a woman hitting a man in public |
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There's absolutely nothing wrong with calling it out or talking about it.
I genuinely don't believe for a second though that violent men could ever be shamed into not being violent or change their ways because other men might be disgusted with their behaviour.
Whether by nature or nurture people commit violent acts for any number of reasons and there is no one size fits all solution.
I've almost lost my job for gross misconduct when a member of staff I disciplined for inappropriate behaviour towards a female colleague decided to headbut me the next day.
Despite working there for 3 years he immediately played the mental health card and went on the sick to avoid dismissal.
Despite working there for 30 years I was suspended and disciplined for defending myself against someone with mental health issues.
The charge was dismissed when they realised how stupid it was.
On another occasion a member of my staff was being abusive to a woman at a Christmas party. Before I could get involved another staff member got stuck into him and they had a full scale brawl in the middle of the hotel and both were suspended for bringing the company into disrepute.
It's one thing to say that all men should stand up and be counted and call out inappropriate behaviour but how many stories have we heard on here where the victim was actually the aggressor or was just playing the victim up to the point where someone stepped in to help and then became the target of both parties?
It's a minefield with no simple route through it. |
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By *oseredWoman
over a year ago
Dublin |
"I'm quite uncomfortable with this guy getting called out for whiteknighting for this post. I feel he is legitimately asking how we make a statement effectively about this. I don't know the answer, but I do know that it's more than OK for men to try and take a stand against male violence against women, and it's kinda scummy to try and call men (or women) out for doing something wrong when they try and talk about it.
Agreed.
From what Im seeing the current challenge is for men to call out other men when they see or hear misogynistic behaviour.
To recognise it and be proactive rather than uncomfortable, tolerant or turning a blind eye to it.
This is a cultural shift *in general* and it should be ok to talk about it. would you intervene if you saw a woman hitting a man in public "
I'd be unlikely to intervene between any violent exchange between strangers. I don't see your point here. |
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"I'm quite uncomfortable with this guy getting called out for whiteknighting for this post. I feel he is legitimately asking how we make a statement effectively about this. I don't know the answer, but I do know that it's more than OK for men to try and take a stand against male violence against women, and it's kinda scummy to try and call men (or women) out for doing something wrong when they try and talk about it. "
You're right.
As much as I hate to make this into men against women thing - not everything is black and white.
We all know "not all men" and that that, but.... ALL women have experienced either harassment or violence from men in their lives.
And it is very important to talk about it on a platform like fab as Internet anonymity provides a platform to those who do have the violent tendencies to flourish unpunished.
To some vile people women on fab or any kind of swinging platform are seen as dirty, easy, not worth respect nor do their "NO" counts as much as women's who aren't on fab and there is literally no way of knowing who is going to be that one person, who will take things too far.
One of my favourite things is to call out disrespectful behaviour, I never forget to ask a person who's making very forward/rude/threatening comments if they would speak to their own mother/sister/daughter in this manner. Most just mumble something along the lines "but we're on fab, you're obviously up for it".
All of that said - we are all in complete control of how we present ourselves and what kind of attention we mostly (aside from a few bad eggs, who just can't help themselves) attract.
It shouldn't be that way, in an ideal world we should be whoever the fuck we want to be and live our lives in every which way we choose to as long as we're not harming anyone else, but hey ho, we're all adults by now and we all know this world isn't fair, nor it ever will be, no matter how hard some people might try to make it right.
Missus |
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By *3nsesMan
over a year ago
Dublin |
So if we publicly state that we think violence towards women is unacceptable does that mean violence towards men is acceptable? And what about animals?
Also, why aren't women being asked to state violence against women is unacceptable?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So if we publicly state that we think violence towards women is unacceptable does that mean violence towards men is acceptable?
"
No.
Just like saying black lives matter doesn't mean people are saying white lives don't.
Or to detatch completely from it having a campaign to stop drink driving doesn't mean that speeding is OK.
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And dismissing whataboutery is ignoring a big part of the problem.
I've witnessed a woman shouting inappropriate sexual comments across a warehouse but her office manager wasn't allowed to discipline her in case she claimed she was being picked on.
That's whataboutery but the knock on effect was that men in the warehouse then said they couldn't be arsed speaking out against other men's behaviour if there wasn't going to be a even playing field.
And if I witness what I feel is inappropriate behaviour or misogyny between 2 strangers how do I know that's it's inappropriate to their particular relationship or that the woman doesn't encourage it?
There are no excuses but there are plenty of reasons that men don't or won't speak out or get involved. Too many variables.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Men who are contemplating this violence need to know that other men would be disgusted if they found out and that society has moved on from such behaviour. Hopefully knowing this (and fear of the shame etc) would help discourage the behaviour."
OP is talking about men contemplating being violent.
So yes, if you hear a mate talking about violence towards a woman you do call him out on it.
All the other scenarios above are just 'whataboutery' |
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""Men who are contemplating this violence need to know that other men would be disgusted if they found out and that society has moved on from such behaviour. Hopefully knowing this (and fear of the shame etc) would help discourage the behaviour."
OP is talking about men contemplating being violent.
So yes, if you hear a mate talking about violence towards a woman you do call him out on it.
All the other scenarios above are just 'whataboutery'"
Have I called people out for it? Yes all my life.
Will I continue to do so based on my own recent experiences?
Highly unlikely if strangers are involved and I don't have the type of friends that ever need calling out. |
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I always find this sort of arguments to be at complete extremes in opinions never cohesive balance rational!
A Blanket statement labelling people one thing or another is never good, most of this arguments are based on minorities and exceptions but not the rule so to speak! Maybe if would focus in finding out why certain injustices happen instead of who causes the in justice we might have better luck at rectifying problems! |
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"Where should we stand up and make this proclamation?
On here? Completely pointless as only a tiny percentage of fabbers use the forums and those that might think it is acceptable won't be dissuaded by a few comments on here.
We haven't just moved on by the way. It was never acceptable and the only people who have moved on are those who have moved on to a different agenda.
I've lived in a violent society all my life where those who advocated violence were told it wasn't acceptable and it fell on deaf ears.
Actions speak louder than words. "
I guess the idea is to bring the issue of violence against women and sexual violence into a narrative which can be spoken about and rallied against, amd brought to an everyday public narrative. A narrative that will be heard everywhere that peoope talk and communicate. In hope that people who might go on to be an abuser one day might hear, and perhaps 1 person might not be abused. |
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"I always find this sort of arguments to be at complete extremes in opinions never cohesive balance rational!
A Blanket statement labelling people one thing or another is never good, most of this arguments are based on minorities and exceptions but not the rule so to speak! Maybe if would focus in finding out why certain injustices happen instead of who causes the in justice we might have better luck at rectifying problems! "
The "why" is important. So is the "who".
Abusers are created not born |
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By *ustBoWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in Co. Down |
"Where should we stand up and make this proclamation?
On here? Completely pointless as only a tiny percentage of fabbers use the forums and those that might think it is acceptable won't be dissuaded by a few comments on here.
We haven't just moved on by the way. It was never acceptable and the only people who have moved on are those who have moved on to a different agenda.
I've lived in a violent society all my life where those who advocated violence were told it wasn't acceptable and it fell on deaf ears.
Actions speak louder than words.
I guess the idea is to bring the issue of violence against women and sexual violence into a narrative which can be spoken about and rallied against, amd brought to an everyday public narrative. A narrative that will be heard everywhere that peoope talk and communicate. In hope that people who might go on to be an abuser one day might hear, and perhaps 1 person might not be abused."
Reading the ops other thread sure all that needs to happen is men be kept sexually satisfied and a lot of the issues are solved anyhow.  |
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"Where should we stand up and make this proclamation?
On here? Completely pointless as only a tiny percentage of fabbers use the forums and those that might think it is acceptable won't be dissuaded by a few comments on here.
We haven't just moved on by the way. It was never acceptable and the only people who have moved on are those who have moved on to a different agenda.
I've lived in a violent society all my life where those who advocated violence were told it wasn't acceptable and it fell on deaf ears.
Actions speak louder than words.
I guess the idea is to bring the issue of violence against women and sexual violence into a narrative which can be spoken about and rallied against, amd brought to an everyday public narrative. A narrative that will be heard everywhere that peoope talk and communicate. In hope that people who might go on to be an abuser one day might hear, and perhaps 1 person might not be abused.
Reading the ops other thread sure all that needs to happen is men be kept sexually satisfied and a lot of the issues are solved anyhow. "
I'm so crap with usernames I didn't know it was the same dude.
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By *ustBoWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in Co. Down |
"Where should we stand up and make this proclamation?
On here? Completely pointless as only a tiny percentage of fabbers use the forums and those that might think it is acceptable won't be dissuaded by a few comments on here.
We haven't just moved on by the way. It was never acceptable and the only people who have moved on are those who have moved on to a different agenda.
I've lived in a violent society all my life where those who advocated violence were told it wasn't acceptable and it fell on deaf ears.
Actions speak louder than words.
I guess the idea is to bring the issue of violence against women and sexual violence into a narrative which can be spoken about and rallied against, amd brought to an everyday public narrative. A narrative that will be heard everywhere that peoope talk and communicate. In hope that people who might go on to be an abuser one day might hear, and perhaps 1 person might not be abused.
Reading the ops other thread sure all that needs to happen is men be kept sexually satisfied and a lot of the issues are solved anyhow.
I'm so crap with usernames I didn't know it was the same dude.
"
 |
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"Where should we stand up and make this proclamation?
On here? Completely pointless as only a tiny percentage of fabbers use the forums and those that might think it is acceptable won't be dissuaded by a few comments on here.
We haven't just moved on by the way. It was never acceptable and the only people who have moved on are those who have moved on to a different agenda.
I've lived in a violent society all my life where those who advocated violence were told it wasn't acceptable and it fell on deaf ears.
Actions speak louder than words.
I guess the idea is to bring the issue of violence against women and sexual violence into a narrative which can be spoken about and rallied against, amd brought to an everyday public narrative. A narrative that will be heard everywhere that peoope talk and communicate. In hope that people who might go on to be an abuser one day might hear, and perhaps 1 person might not be abused."
I don't disagree with that. For any narrative to have an effect though requires those involved to speak with one voice which in itself requires clear communication.
Every thread we've ever had on here discussing this subject has been emotive and the general consensus is that men need to do more.
Men who have never contemplated violence and have spoken out long before it became fashionable to do so are told to do even more and teach other men how to act accordingly.
Some men struggle to get through their day and deal with their own issues and they are being told to be responsible for other people's actions.
I've seen men including me on previous threads asking how they can do more and being told to stop asking stupid questions and just do it!
Women quite rightly often say they won't get involved if they see a confrontation between others because of concerns for their own safety.
Men are ridiculed for saying the same and told to man up.
It's all fine and well dismissing whataboutery but if you genuinely want a proper and honest discussion with possible solutions, ignoring all the reasons that some men struggle to even see the narrative or get involved in it is not the way to go.
If I ask someone to help me solve a problem and they are having difficulty understanding the problem or their role in either the problem or the solution there's no benefit in ignoring their concerns and telling them to get on and do it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If you need to be told that violence against women, men or just violence in general is bad then you need to take a look at yourself. People will say about up bringing and stuff like that but for me that's just an excuse. My ma used to batter me. And I mean batter. I never raised a hand against her or any other woman. When I was a young lad I did have anger issues and I'd often get into fights for nothing but after lots of help and support I realised that I was the problem and not my upbringing. Someone said here that every woman has been a victim of violence or inappropriate comments at some stage. Well I bet so has every man. As a race violence is one of the things we unfortunately do best. People in general need to work to change that but unfortunately I don't think any of us will live to see that change. But change has to start somewhere |
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"I think we men have a duty to stand up and publicly state that we find any violence against women disgusting and totally unacceptable.
There is no acceptable excuse.
Men who are contemplating this violence need to know that other men would be disgusted if they found out and that society has moved on from such behaviour. Hopefully knowing this (and fear of the shame etc) would help discourage the behaviour.
These women are our mothers, daughters, sisters, friends, partners, cousins, complete strangers, whatever. Surely we men owe them this much.
Are men morally obliged to step up?
How do we make the statement effectively?"
I've been hit by women and sexually assaulted twice by them, where was my support. Oh yeah that's right, I'm a man so if ok for that to happen to me, thanks Mr. White Knight for making everything clear. |
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Shouldnt the point here be - what can we do to stop people being violent against other people. Teaching people how to express their fustration/anger in non violent ways regardless of their gender would be a good start. |
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"I'm quite uncomfortable with this guy getting called out for whiteknighting for this post. I feel he is legitimately asking how we make a statement effectively about this. I don't know the answer, but I do know that it's more than OK for men to try and take a stand against male violence against women, and it's kinda scummy to try and call men (or women) out for doing something wrong when they try and talk about it.
Agreed.
From what Im seeing the current challenge is for men to call out other men when they see or hear misogynistic behaviour.
To recognise it and be proactive rather than uncomfortable, tolerant or turning a blind eye to it.
This is a cultural shift *in general* and it should be ok to talk about it. would you intervene if you saw a woman hitting a man in public "
Yes, i would. And i have intervened when i saw a man beating a woman to the ground, while she was holding on to her pram with her baby in it. I challenged him, and he eventually ran away. |
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