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Alzeihmers/ dementia
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Such a horrible disease! My grandfather currently has it and is in a hospice waiting for a bed in a nursing home! I know it's totally unrelated to what goes on in fabswingers but what I don't understand is how the man can't be sedated permenantly! He's completely agitated, wants to go home and can't etc! The hospice he's in can't cope and when he gets very bad my fam is always called, no matter what time!The question I just want to ask is if there is any nurses here or people who were in this position before why can't he be permantly sedated to the extent that he doesn't no where he is! Sorry for the downer, just thought I'd ask on a thread as anyone can see it  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I can't offer you any professional advice but I lost a grandparent to dementia & I am sorry for your pain, it's a horrible way to lose someone - still there in body but no longer the person you knew & loved. My parents helped me understand that my grandparent had already gone & perhaps I should accept that & no longer visit. It was very hard but ultimately they were right, my Mum struggled for 9 years visiting someone who didn't know her any more. Try & confide in someone, talking will help.
XX |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I can't offer you any professional advice but I lost a grandparent to dementia & I am sorry for your pain, it's a horrible way to lose someone - still there in body but no longer the person you knew & loved. My parents helped me understand that my grandparent had already gone & perhaps I should accept that & no longer visit. It was very hard but ultimately they were right, my Mum struggled for 9 years visiting someone who didn't know her any more. Try & confide in someone, talking will help.
XX "
ye I understand it lots, it's just I didn't understand the sedation thing! It's a horrible illness! Thanks for your post |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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We both deal with this disease everyday and I recently lost my grandmother too it
While it's easy to sedate someone it still doesn't make it easier
There is medication to calm people down and help the nerves relax.
It's so hard on families to come to terms with it but eventually you do.
There's 7 stages of the disease and it's a rapid movement from stage 1 to stage 7
One mistake people always make at the start is trying to reason with the sufferer.
If he thinks something is black even tho it's clearly White then just go along with it being black
No matter how wrong or strange a conversation sounds to you it sounds perfectly right to the sufferer so always go along with it to avoid upset and more confusion.
It's not an easy thing to deal with and it never gets easier unfortunately.
It's the worst disease of any diseases
That might sound like totally useless info right now but it will make sense in time
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"We both deal with this disease everyday and I recently lost my grandmother too it
While it's easy to sedate someone it still doesn't make it easier
There is medication to calm people down and help the nerves relax.
It's so hard on families to come to terms with it but eventually you do.
There's 7 stages of the disease and it's a rapid movement from stage 1 to stage 7
One mistake people always make at the start is trying to reason with the sufferer.
If he thinks something is black even tho it's clearly White then just go along with it being black
No matter how wrong or strange a conversation sounds to you it sounds perfectly right to the sufferer so always go along with it to avoid upset and more confusion.
It's not an easy thing to deal with and it never gets easier unfortunately.
It's the worst disease of any diseases
That might sound like totally useless info right now but it will make sense in time
"
appreciate it thanks! he's at a latter stage, don't no what exactly! The Prob is the hospice are calling my fam when he gets very aggitated aggressive, could be during the night and they have jobs/work to fullfill to! It's very difficult |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Sounds like the nursing home isn't equipped to deal with challenging behaviours
Not too many places are
Some places have dedicated units or wards for this type of behaviour that deals very well with it
Maybe contact his gp and see can he get prescribed anything but ye would need a report from the nursing home saying why he would need sedation at times |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The hospital aren't being very fair on you to be calling you at awkward hours, it's their business to deal with situations like this.... Like, what do they expect you to do!   |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The hospital aren't being very fair on you to be calling you at awkward hours, it's their business to deal with situations like this.... Like, what do they expect you to do! "
its not actually. hospital nurses are not trained in dementia care and haven't got a clue when they are faced with it unless you are in a ward that's specifically for dementia sufferers. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The hospital aren't being very fair on you to be calling you at awkward hours, it's their business to deal with situations like this.... Like, what do they expect you to do!
its not actually. hospital nurses are not trained in dementia care and haven't got a clue when they are faced with it unless you are in a ward that's specifically for dementia sufferers."
100% spot on
Staff need specific training for it
It's terrifying for people who have no idea what they're dealing with which adds to the agitation of the person |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Im sitting here with my mom atm she has dementia she will ask me in a min for the 100th time "what day is today ...what time is it ?? " ALL ya can do is your best fur them buddy that's all |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The hospital aren't being very fair on you to be calling you at awkward hours, it's their business to deal with situations like this.... Like, what do they expect you to do!
its not actually. hospital nurses are not trained in dementia care and haven't got a clue when they are faced with it unless you are in a ward that's specifically for dementia sufferers."
The question I have to ask then is why was he sent to a hospital where the care isn't there, he needs to go to a nursing home or a care centre that cater for those who suffer from alzheimers or dementia... Your local GP should know the best places he should be...  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The hospital aren't being very fair on you to be calling you at awkward hours, it's their business to deal with situations like this.... Like, what do they expect you to do!
its not actually. hospital nurses are not trained in dementia care and haven't got a clue when they are faced with it unless you are in a ward that's specifically for dementia sufferers.
The question I have to ask then is why was he sent to a hospital where the care isn't there, he needs to go to a nursing home or a care centre that cater for those who suffer from alzheimers or dementia... Your local GP should know the best places he should be... "
There's so little places that cater for challenging behaviour that the waiting list is unreal for places like it.
It's not as simple as picking a places and putting them in.
Could be waiting a few years for a place
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The hospital aren't being very fair on you to be calling you at awkward hours, it's their business to deal with situations like this.... Like, what do they expect you to do!
its not actually. hospital nurses are not trained in dementia care and haven't got a clue when they are faced with it unless you are in a ward that's specifically for dementia sufferers.
The question I have to ask then is why was he sent to a hospital where the care isn't there, he needs to go to a nursing home or a care centre that cater for those who suffer from alzheimers or dementia... Your local GP should know the best places he should be...
There's so little places that cater for challenging behaviour that the waiting list is unreal for places like it.
It's not as simple as picking a places and putting them in.
Could be waiting a few years for a place
"
Another failing of our health system |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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My grandfather was in a porier hospital who had staff who could deal with him! He was passed medically fit to leave so had to get rid of him! He is now in a place like a hospice while waiting for a bed in a nursing home but they can't deal with him near as good |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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its very difficult to actually get doctors to agree to sedation. the reason for this is quite a lot of the time it has little effect.
the problem is and the reason dementia patients ask the time often is because parts of there brain don't get the message you have told them.
i help train staff in this and so only way i can explain it is that say 6 of you are passing a balloon around and the one by one you sit down. its that process and because we base much of what we do around time its the most common question to be asked. but when told it doesn't quite make it to the part of the brain that registered whats been told to us.
there is not enough support for families or health professionals dealing with this disease. the reason they call the family is that is the only thing they can do to get heard. families often have more power to move things along than the places these people are in with staff that often haven't the skills to deal with aggressive or confused people
sorry for ramble and hope it helps in some way |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"its very difficult to actually get doctors to agree to sedation. the reason for this is quite a lot of the time it has little effect.
the problem is and the reason dementia patients ask the time often is because parts of there brain don't get the message you have told them.
i help train staff in this and so only way i can explain it is that say 6 of you are passing a balloon around and the one by one you sit down. its that process and because we base much of what we do around time its the most common question to be asked. but when told it doesn't quite make it to the part of the brain that registered whats been told to us.
there is not enough support for families or health professionals dealing with this disease. the reason they call the family is that is the only thing they can do to get heard. families often have more power to move things along than the places these people are in with staff that often haven't the skills to deal with aggressive or confused people
sorry for ramble and hope it helps in some way "
Yeah, but do they have to phone at such inappropriate times... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Im sitting here with my mom atm she has dementia she will ask me in a min for the 100th time "what day is today ...what time is it ?? " ALL ya can do is your best fur them buddy that's all "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"its very difficult to actually get doctors to agree to sedation. the reason for this is quite a lot of the time it has little effect.
the problem is and the reason dementia patients ask the time often is because parts of there brain don't get the message you have told them.
i help train staff in this and so only way i can explain it is that say 6 of you are passing a balloon around and the one by one you sit down. its that process and because we base much of what we do around time its the most common question to be asked. but when told it doesn't quite make it to the part of the brain that registered whats been told to us.
there is not enough support for families or health professionals dealing with this disease. the reason they call the family is that is the only thing they can do to get heard. families often have more power to move things along than the places these people are in with staff that often haven't the skills to deal with aggressive or confused people
sorry for ramble and hope it helps in some way
Yeah, but do they have to phone at such inappropriate times... "
There's no such thing as inappropriate times when it's a family member
It's a tough time for everyone involved and until they get him into the appropriate place then that's what u have to deal with |
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Agitation is not part of the "disease" err condition. Confusion, yes and why? because of the memory loss. And when they cant recall they get confused and then projection (defense mechanism) kicks in and directed to other people hence the agitation. So the pharmachological management doesnt really address the main problem, it acts like a band-aid only and not the real cause of their confusion. But who can fathom one's mind? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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This is sad and distressing x I hope it improves once he settles in a nursing home x sedation isn't the answer but he certainly needs to be reviewed by psychiatry x
Any infection or anything that upsets his equilibrium will make his symptoms worse x |
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"This is sad and distressing x I hope it improves once he settles in a nursing home x sedation isn't the answer but he certainly needs to be reviewed by psychiatry x
Any infection or anything that upsets his equilibrium will make his symptoms worse x "
Sad but forgetting things already altering his balance.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Agitation is not part of the "disease" err condition. Confusion, yes and why? because of the memory loss. And when they cant recall they get confused and then projection (defense mechanism) kicks in and directed to other people hence the agitation. So the pharmachological management doesnt really address the main problem, it acts like a band-aid only and not the real cause of their confusion. But who can fathom one's mind? "
Agitation is not part of the disease or condition or what ever you want to call it??
Tell that to the nurse or carer trying to deal with it
It's one of the biggest factors with dementia or Alzheimer's it goes hand and hand with it.
All the science in the world won't give u an answer to their confusion so a "band aid" is all we have for now |
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"Agitation is not part of the "disease" err condition. Confusion, yes and why? because of the memory loss. And when they cant recall they get confused and then projection (defense mechanism) kicks in and directed to other people hence the agitation. So the pharmachological management doesnt really address the main problem, it acts like a band-aid only and not the real cause of their confusion. But who can fathom one's mind?
Agitation is not part of the disease or condition or what ever you want to call it??
Tell that to the nurse or carer trying to deal with it
It's one of the biggest factors with dementia or Alzheimer's it goes hand and hand with it.
All the science in the world won't give u an answer to their confusion so a "band aid" is all we have for now "
Not all dementia pt have agitation. Periods of agitation,yes. People of sound mind have agitation also, do we have to categorized them as having dementia? And search for idiopathic pls |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Agitation is not part of the "disease" err condition. Confusion, yes and why? because of the memory loss. And when they cant recall they get confused and then projection (defense mechanism) kicks in and directed to other people hence the agitation. So the pharmachological management doesnt really address the main problem, it acts like a band-aid only and not the real cause of their confusion. But who can fathom one's mind?
Agitation is not part of the disease or condition or what ever you want to call it??
Tell that to the nurse or carer trying to deal with it
It's one of the biggest factors with dementia or Alzheimer's it goes hand and hand with it.
All the science in the world won't give u an answer to their confusion so a "band aid" is all we have for now
Not all dementia pt have agitation. Periods of agitation,yes. People of sound mind have agitation also, do we have to categorized them as having dementia? And search for idiopathic pls"
Yes they have periods of agitation due to confusion over the dementia so it goes hand in hand.
People of sound mind don't get agitated over dementia simply because they don't have it so u can't make a comparison.
We could debate this all night but the bottom line is agitation and major mood changes and personality chages all occur with Alzheimer's and dementia usually in the later stages like this gentleman is experiencing now.
Sooner they find the exact cause or cure for this the better |
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"Agitation is not part of the "disease" err condition. Confusion, yes and why? because of the memory loss. And when they cant recall they get confused and then projection (defense mechanism) kicks in and directed to other people hence the agitation. So the pharmachological management doesnt really address the main problem, it acts like a band-aid only and not the real cause of their confusion. But who can fathom one's mind?
Agitation is not part of the disease or condition or what ever you want to call it??
Tell that to the nurse or carer trying to deal with it
It's one of the biggest factors with dementia or Alzheimer's it goes hand and hand with it.
All the science in the world won't give u an answer to their confusion so a "band aid" is all we have for now
Not all dementia pt have agitation. Periods of agitation,yes. People of sound mind have agitation also, do we have to categorized them as having dementia? And search for idiopathic pls
Yes they have periods of agitation due to confusion over the dementia so it goes hand in hand.
People of sound mind don't get agitated over dementia simply because they don't have it so u can't make a comparison.
We could debate this all night but the bottom line is agitation and major mood changes and personality chages all occur with Alzheimer's and dementia usually in the later stages like this gentleman is experiencing now.
Sooner they find the exact cause or cure for this the better "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Very interesting read. I am very sorry to hear you and your family are going through this. I am in college at the moment and as part of my work experience i am going to a dementia care home. I can ask a few questions if you feel it would be of any benefit to you? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Very interesting read. I am very sorry to hear you and your family are going through this. I am in college at the moment and as part of my work experience i am going to a dementia care home. I can ask a few questions if you feel it would be of any benefit to you? "
do please if it's not a problem! I have been reading up on stuff but obviously don't know the ins and outs of everything! I just thought there might be a way to calm him! None of my fam got a call during the night which is good but come 11.30-12.00 this morn someone will get a call as his agitation will kick in wondering is anybody coming to see him! It's hard as we all work/study! Difficult situation
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I work within psychiatry and although I haven't worked within dementia care in a while I could try answer some questions. Both my grandmothers have also suffered from dementia and its a horrible way to see your own family member go.
A lot of the information above is brilliant. Unfortunately with dementia there is the factor of agitation due to their confusion. This can also be increased by the presence of an infection usually a uti. Medication/sedatives can increase this agitation in a lot of cases and a lot of these medications aren't suitable for care of the older person. That being said I would suggest requesting that your family member is reviewed by either a psychiatrist or geriatrician to review all the medications that have been prescribed and also to possibly try to put a behavioural plan in place which might help to reduce the agitation.
I hope that helps somewhat, and I hope things improve for both you and your family  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I work within psychiatry and although I haven't worked within dementia care in a while I could try answer some questions. Both my grandmothers have also suffered from dementia and its a horrible way to see your own family member go.
A lot of the information above is brilliant. Unfortunately with dementia there is the factor of agitation due to their confusion. This can also be increased by the presence of an infection usually a uti. Medication/sedatives can increase this agitation in a lot of cases and a lot of these medications aren't suitable for care of the older person. That being said I would suggest requesting that your family member is reviewed by either a psychiatrist or geriatrician to review all the medications that have been prescribed and also to possibly try to put a behavioural plan in place which might help to reduce the agitation.
I hope that helps somewhat, and I hope things improve for both you and your family "
thanks for your post |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Hey guys! What's the best thing to do when a alzeihmers patient first goes into a nursing home! See them less and let the nurses do their job or be with them lots? |
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By *avy8931Man
over a year ago
ballymena |
Totally agree. It's the same conversation and questions over and over constantly every time you visit. You just want to bang your head off a wall when you come out. My mother has it and it's a year next month since she had to go into a nursing home for dementia as she was becoming a danger to herself |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Totally agree. It's the same conversation and questions over and over constantly every time you visit. You just want to bang your head off a wall when you come out. My mother has it and it's a year next month since she had to go into a nursing home for dementia as she was becoming a danger to herself"
its tough! My grandfather has it 7 years and went into a nursing home today! Was there tonight! He's like a mad man! Nurses say it takes time to settle but I have seen Dementia patients before but nobody like him! He just never settles
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Oh my God my heart goes out to you. It's a terrible thing. My mother had it for 2 and a half years. It was like I lost my mother when she got it. She wasn't the same person at all. It's such a sad disease. It robs the person of their life and identify and dignity. I hope your granda settles in the home. xx |
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By *al2001Man
over a year ago
kildare |
I never experienced family member with dementia but my da was in hospital and nursing homes for 2 years until he passed away cpl months ago and all i can say from experience is if you want to know your grandad is properly taken care of you and your family are going to have to be majorly involved.we went every day and the neglect we say from carers and nurses is shocking.meal times especially.and make sure the basics are done like wet clothes and bedding changed |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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My Granda suffered from it. He got quite violent so he had to go to a nursing home, he started climbing into female patients beds there and stealing things. He was deeply religious so extremely out of character. It broke my granny's heart. She ended up moving him to a facility that had a dedicated dementia ward. He remained there for 4 years before he died. They rarely contacted any members of my family except in emergencies and he got amazing care there. Choosing the correct care facility is the most important decision. Unfortunately though it's all about how much your willing to pay. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I never experienced family member with dementia but my da was in hospital and nursing homes for 2 years until he passed away cpl months ago and all i can say from experience is if you want to know your grandad is properly taken care of you and your family are going to have to be majorly involved.we went every day and the neglect we say from carers and nurses is shocking.meal times especially.and make sure the basics are done like wet clothes and bedding changed "
we were there yesterday! They don't like you staying during meal times! See all my fam work so we can't do a rota that somebody is there always, it's not possible plus if we were there all the time we would get him into a habit! It's just trying to get him used to the place
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"My Granda suffered from it. He got quite violent so he had to go to a nursing home, he started climbing into female patients beds there and stealing things. He was deeply religious so extremely out of character. It broke my granny's heart. She ended up moving him to a facility that had a dedicated dementia ward. He remained there for 4 years before he died. They rarely contacted any members of my family except in emergencies and he got amazing care there. Choosing the correct care facility is the most important decision. Unfortunately though it's all about how much your willing to pay. "
exactly but I heard a lady on the radio yesterday morning and she was giving out that there is not enough dementia specific facility's in ireland to care for the amount of dementia patients! I could see my grandfather having to go too one of he could get in! He's the very same as that, constantly addicted gets aggressive won't settle
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"My Granda suffered from it. He got quite violent so he had to go to a nursing home, he started climbing into female patients beds there and stealing things. He was deeply religious so extremely out of character. It broke my granny's heart. She ended up moving him to a facility that had a dedicated dementia ward. He remained there for 4 years before he died. They rarely contacted any members of my family except in emergencies and he got amazing care there. Choosing the correct care facility is the most important decision. Unfortunately though it's all about how much your willing to pay. exactly but I heard a lady on the radio yesterday morning and she was giving out that there is not enough dementia specific facility's in ireland to care for the amount of dementia patients! I could see my grandfather having to go too one of he could get in! He's the very same as that, constantly addicted gets aggressive won't settle "
He went to one in Northern Ireland. 3 hour drive from my grandmother. None closer |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"My Granda suffered from it. He got quite violent so he had to go to a nursing home, he started climbing into female patients beds there and stealing things. He was deeply religious so extremely out of character. It broke my granny's heart. She ended up moving him to a facility that had a dedicated dementia ward. He remained there for 4 years before he died. They rarely contacted any members of my family except in emergencies and he got amazing care there. Choosing the correct care facility is the most important decision. Unfortunately though it's all about how much your willing to pay. exactly but I heard a lady on the radio yesterday morning and she was giving out that there is not enough dementia specific facility's in ireland to care for the amount of dementia patients! I could see my grandfather having to go too one of he could get in! He's the very same as that, constantly addicted gets aggressive won't settle
He went to one in Northern Ireland. 3 hour drive from my grandmother. None closer "
it would be something similar with us to closest one! |
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By *avy8931Man
over a year ago
ballymena |
My mother is in a special dementia unit herr in the north. I cant praise the staff enough and at meal times I am more than welcome to have a meal with mum and if they come round with tea during the day you are also offered. They even have a room set up like a cafe where you can go and make tea and family is all welcome. Buns and cakes and biscuits are provided. Help yourself and just leave a donation for the residents fund |
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