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Openly jewish
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By *CBoyTV/TS 3 weeks ago
Penygraig |
I suppose it depends if its meant to be simply descriptive ie its obvious that Hasidic Jews are dressed to advertise their faith. Similarly if a gent wears a Kippa skull cap. Or if its meant in a derogatory way....ie referring to pronounced facial features etc. So the answer could be yes and no.. |
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Right, some important context that OP either deliberately left out or forgot;
Met Police apologise after an officer used the term “Openly Jewish” to describe a man who was threatened with arrest after being near a pro-Palestine march. |
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"Is apparently an offensive term? …,
Is it?  "
Apparently so offensive that the met police had to apologise for one of their officers preventing said individual (who just happened to have his phone camera on to record the incident) from coming to harm |
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"Context is king, and the term is being taken out of context on this thread.
What is the context everyone should be taking "
Met Police apologise after an officer used the term “Openly Jewish” to describe a man who was threatened with arrest after being near a pro-Palestine march. |
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By *oody BMan 3 weeks ago
Mcr. - The Gilded Palace of Sin |
"Context is king, and the term is being taken out of context on this thread.
What is the context everyone should be taking
Met Police apologise after an officer used the term “Openly Jewish” to describe a man who was threatened with arrest after being near a pro-Palestine march."
Ah. Thanks for the context.
I’m now not interested. I’m out.
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"Context is king, and the term is being taken out of context on this thread.
What is the context everyone should be taking "
The police officer said to the man in question
“You are quite openly Jewish, this is a pro-Palestinian march, I’m not accusing you of anything but I’m worried about the reaction to your presence.”
The man was offended by the police officer insinuating that him being Jewish was the issue and not that protestors may act aggressively towards him. The intention of the police officer may not have been to offend but his language was poorly chosen and offended the man in question.
There was no need to use the words “openly Jewish” at all. |
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"Is apparently an offensive term? …,
Is it?
Apparently so offensive that the met police had to apologise for one of their officers preventing said individual (who just happened to have his phone camera on to record the incident) from coming to harm"
Perhaps he had his camera ready because of previous incidents in the capital? He was prepared because of the existing tensions around the protests?
Added to which, I hope the officer had his body worn video on to also record the incident.
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And the apology has been made.
If more people apologised quickly, rather than try to justify something, it would take the sting out of lots of incidents.
(You can even cross your fingers as you say it, if you feel miffed about it).
Gbat |
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By *CBoyTV/TS 3 weeks ago
Penygraig |
"Right, some important context that OP either deliberately left out or forgot;
Met Police apologise after an officer used the term “Openly Jewish” to describe a man who was threatened with arrest after being near a pro-Palestine march. "
Why was it offensive I don't understand? Sounds as if there were visual ques that identified the guy as Jewish and possibly in the context likely to cause problems. So the officer was trying to prevent a breach of public order . Should be thanked for his vigilance not slated for it. |
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"And the apology has been made.
If more people apologised quickly, rather than try to justify something, it would take the sting out of lots of incidents.
(You can even cross your fingers as you say it, if you feel miffed about it).
Gbat "
There were two apologies by the Met, but wouldn't it have been better if nothing had been said to warrant an apology in the first place?
I understand that the officer was likely to be well intentioned, but there are ways of handling situations and using appropriate language. |
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By *CBoyTV/TS 3 weeks ago
Penygraig |
"Context is king, and the term is being taken out of context on this thread.
What is the context everyone should be taking
The police officer said to the man in question
“You are quite openly Jewish, this is a pro-Palestinian march, I’m not accusing you of anything but I’m worried about the reaction to your presence.”
The man was offended by the police officer insinuating that him being Jewish was the issue and not that protestors may act aggressively towards him. The intention of the police officer may not have been to offend but his language was poorly chosen and offended the man in question.
There was no need to use the words “openly Jewish” at all."
I disagree he was explaining to the chap why he thought he could be in danger . If the officer thought he looked Jewish then others could who had less benign intention. Even if the man was not Jewish it didn't really matter the intention was to help Jim. What a stupid thing to complain about. One can only surmise he'll get his just rewards in future and then complain he wasn't warned by officers..sounds a right cunt. |
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"Is apparently an offensive term? Is being openly or obviously of a particular faith or race offensive? "
Needing to be "open" about something suggests that it is something that might generally "need" hiding away. |
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" There were two apologies by the Met, but wouldn't it have been better if nothing had been said to warrant an apology in the first place?
I understand that the officer was likely to be well intentioned, but there are ways of handling situations and using appropriate language. "
Absolutely!
But there’s no Time Machine usable yet, so a quick and simple apology is a good thing.
Gbat |
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"Is apparently an offensive term? …,
Is it?
Apparently so offensive that the met police had to apologise for one of their officers preventing said individual (who just happened to have his phone camera on to record the incident) from coming to harm"
I would say after persecution and discrimination since antiquity along with repeated pogroms in both Europe and Muslim countries that it is wise for Jews worldwide to be on guard. Especially now since they have the Muslim world, far right, far left and rent-a-mob woke flag wavers who do not understand history targeting any Jews they see. If only all these same people could stand up for the Uyghurs in China like this  |
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"Context is king, and the term is being taken out of context on this thread."
Well I for one am shocked and appalled that someone decided to deliberately misquote or misrepresent a story 
This is why I tend to Google things people post on here lol
Evie |
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By *alcon77Man 3 weeks ago
near manchester |
"Is apparently an offensive term? …,
Is it?
Apparently so offensive that the met police had to apologise for one of their officers preventing said individual (who just happened to have his phone camera on to record the incident) from coming to harm
I would say after persecution and discrimination since antiquity along with repeated pogroms in both Europe and Muslim countries that it is wise for Jews worldwide to be on guard. Especially now since they have the Muslim world, far right, far left and rent-a-mob woke flag wavers who do not understand history targeting any Jews they see. If only all these same people could stand up for the Uyghurs in China like this "
People keep bringing this point up, on podcasts especially..
But I've seen many large protests in Manchester, against the chinese government for the treatment Uyghurs.
-Going back years..
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"Is apparently an offensive term? …,
Is it?
Apparently so offensive that the met police had to apologise for one of their officers preventing said individual (who just happened to have his phone camera on to record the incident) from coming to harm
I would say after persecution and discrimination since antiquity along with repeated pogroms in both Europe and Muslim countries that it is wise for Jews worldwide to be on guard. Especially now since they have the Muslim world, far right, far left and rent-a-mob woke flag wavers who do not understand history targeting any Jews they see. If only all these same people could stand up for the Uyghurs in China like this
People keep bringing this point up, on podcasts especially..
But I've seen many large protests in Manchester, against the chinese government for the treatment Uyghurs.
-Going back years..
"
The hypocrisy from the Muslim world on Uyghurs is astounding, especially big mouths like Turkey and Iran…. |
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I think this is problematic because ideas that one can look or not look Jewish are considered to be offensive? And based on stereotypical collective features (that have historically been used oppressively).
I don’t think to notice someone visibly displaying signifiers of faith but being Jewish is not just about practising faith. |
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"I think this is problematic because ideas that one can look or not look Jewish are considered to be offensive? And based on stereotypical collective features (that have historically been used oppressively).
I don’t think to notice someone visibly displaying signifiers of faith but being Jewish is not just about practising faith. "
Just read the context. Nvm |
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"I think this is problematic because ideas that one can look or not look Jewish are considered to be offensive? And based on stereotypical collective features (that have historically been used oppressively).
I don’t think to notice someone visibly displaying signifiers of faith but being Jewish is not just about practising faith. "
Sorry, Pickle, I don't understand your point. Can you explain a little more, please?
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"So it's a none story?
Cool.
Exactly, like being openly a United Fan in a team shirt & walking through a Liverpool fans protest.
Who'd be a Met Copper?
I'd say it's a lot different. "
The context of being of the absolute opposite view or target of the angry protesting group is absolutely the same.
The overall reasoning is 100% different but Police used the wrong words but were trying to protect the guy.
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"So it's a none story?
Cool.
Exactly, like being openly a United Fan in a team shirt & walking through a Liverpool fans protest.
Who'd be a Met Copper?
I'd say it's a lot different.
The context of being of the absolute opposite view or target of the angry protesting group is absolutely the same.
The overall reasoning is 100% different but Police used the wrong words but were trying to protect the guy.
"
As I said in an earlier post, the officer was probably well intentioned, but their vocabulary was somewhat ill chosen.
Factor in hundreds of years of persecution and intolerance towards a group of people, hardly the same as football supporters. |
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I don’t think you can really give offence by just being, it’s much more easily take though…. ….I think some people take a lot too much offence like it’s a drug and spend their lives looking for more and then wonder why they’re unhappy with life…
If I went looking for a minor plumbing leak in any house in the country then I’d probably find one, but most of us aren’t sat around worrying about potential leaks in our pipes, right?
(P.s. I’m not a plumber so please don’t all inundate me now with offers if sexual favours for plumbing services  ) |
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Trouble is -man-, some people have had so many of those little leaks and suffered some serious consequences as a result. Now they can’t help but to check under the sink, knowing they will almost definitely find some new little leaks.
If you don’t usually get a little leak, it probably won’t bother you.
Gbat
(I am also not a plumber but will role play for the right correspondents). |
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"I think this is problematic because ideas that one can look or not look Jewish are considered to be offensive? And based on stereotypical collective features (that have historically been used oppressively).
I don’t think to notice someone visibly displaying signifiers of faith but being Jewish is not just about practising faith.
Sorry, Pickle, I don't understand your point. Can you explain a little more, please?
"
So I was just making the point that to say to someone that they look or don’t look Jewish can be offensive (as that’s what I read the OP as before I read the wider context). Offensive because it is basically a statement based on stereotypical image of Jewish people and how much someone fits that image. And historically ideas of stereotypical looking Jewish people have been used to discriminate and violently oppress Jewish people.
But I think it’s ok to notice that someone is Jewish based on signifiers of belonging to the faith. Wearing a kippah for example. But I noted that being Jewish is not just about faith as there are many atheist Jews.
But anyway this point is not relevant to discussion once the actual context of what the OP is talking about is taken into account |
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"I think this is problematic because ideas that one can look or not look Jewish are considered to be offensive? And based on stereotypical collective features (that have historically been used oppressively).
I don’t think to notice someone visibly displaying signifiers of faith but being Jewish is not just about practising faith.
Sorry, Pickle, I don't understand your point. Can you explain a little more, please?
So I was just making the point that to say to someone that they look or don’t look Jewish can be offensive (as that’s what I read the OP as before I read the wider context). Offensive because it is basically a statement based on stereotypical image of Jewish people and how much someone fits that image. And historically ideas of stereotypical looking Jewish people have been used to discriminate and violently oppress Jewish people.
But I think it’s ok to notice that someone is Jewish based on signifiers of belonging to the faith. Wearing a kippah for example. But I noted that being Jewish is not just about faith as there are many atheist Jews.
But anyway this point is not relevant to discussion once the actual context of what the OP is talking about is taken into account"
Thanks, Pickle, that makes so much sense. |
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"Oh its a beautiful thing. The met police have now been forced to apologise for their first apology causing further offence. Sorry for breathing in your presence. "
Who cares about the Met? Really? |
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"Oh its a beautiful thing. The met police have now been forced to apologise for their first apology causing further offence. Sorry for breathing in your presence. "
You know when people talk about privilege? |
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"Right, some important context that OP either deliberately left out or forgot;
Met Police apologise after an officer used the term “Openly Jewish” to describe a man who was threatened with arrest after being near a pro-Palestine march. "
Racist.
Jewish people have characterises similar to many other Middle Eastern people including Arabs. It’s impossible to know if someone’s Jewish by looking at them
You realise Jew is a ethno-religious group not just a religion? |
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" “Openly Jewish”
The phrasing makes it sound like this is something you should hide, which could easily offend someone I would think.
It suggests the speaker regards it negatively. "
I am always badged but I know I put my life in danger every time I go outside. |
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"I suppose it depends if its meant to be simply descriptive ie its obvious that Hasidic Jews are dressed to advertise their faith. Similarly if a gent wears a Kippa skull cap. Or if its meant in a derogatory way....ie referring to pronounced facial features etc. So the answer could be yes and no.."
Most people do not know my Jewish faith and, a few years ago, whilst at work, I was sitting next to the local moron piped up with "everyone hates the Jews especially those funny little hats". They certainly knew my faith after that outburst. After that incident I have come out of the closet. |
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"I suppose it depends if its meant to be simply descriptive ie its obvious that Hasidic Jews are dressed to advertise their faith. Similarly if a gent wears a Kippa skull cap. Or if its meant in a derogatory way....ie referring to pronounced facial features etc. So the answer could be yes and no..
Most people do not know my Jewish faith and, a few years ago, whilst at work, I was sitting next to the local moron piped up with "everyone hates the Jews especially those funny little hats". They certainly knew my faith after that outburst. After that incident I have come out of the closet."
You have come out of the closet. That should never have to happen. |
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"I'm openly a woman ... "
So am I and perhaps that's the issue.
If I were to walk alone late at night in a dodgy area and got attacked I am "openly female" and asking for it. That's victim blaming.
The police officer shouldn't be saying the "openly Jewish" guy shouldn't be there but to watch and protect him should he be attacked. The police are victim blaming as usual, it just makes their job easier.
However, if the "openly Jewish" man was to provoke the crowd, would he be arrested for agitation or allowed his free speech?
Policing these days is needs stronger leadership than ever! |
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By *AJMLKTV/TS 3 weeks ago
Burley |
I think the salient point of this incident is that somebody's freedom of movement was restricted because the police officer thought he was "provoking" the "pro-Palestine" march by looking "openly Jewish" The protest marches are supposed to be pro-Palestine but are also anti-Israel. This guy was targeted by the policeman not because he looked "openly-Israeli", but because he looked "openly-Jewish". Imagine the reaction from BLM groups if a person of colour was restricted from freedom of movement during an EDL march because they were "openly-black". Freedom of protest and marching is an important part of our civil liberty, but when it's used to intimidate others because of their ethnicity, it's very very wrong. |
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"Judaism is a faith, so it's the religion, rather than the ethnicity, that is being targeted. "
To be Jewish is also an ethnic identity. However, the Equality Act state one cannot be discriminated against on the basis of faith or ethnicity. So on either basis, the police officer demonstrated discrimination.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_is_a_Jew%3F |
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"Judaism is a faith, so it's the religion, rather than the ethnicity, that is being targeted. "
You don’t understand what Jewish means in context. It’s not just a religion. National borders are a relatively new concept and still not all nations have them such as autonomous Kurdistan. |
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" “Openly Jewish”
The phrasing makes it sound like this is something you should hide, which could easily offend someone I would think.
It suggests the speaker regards it negatively. "
It doesn't at all. Simply when you're wearing a kippah it makes you look Jewish. A statement of fact is all it is.
It's an interesting response though how 2 words can be interpreted in so many different ways |
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" “Openly Jewish”
The phrasing makes it sound like this is something you should hide, which could easily offend someone I would think.
It suggests the speaker regards it negatively.
It doesn't at all. Simply when you're wearing a kippah it makes you look Jewish. A statement of fact is all it is.
It's an interesting response though how 2 words can be interpreted in so many different ways"
I hope you are being deliberately obtuse with that remark. |
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I agree with the points that a single individual should be able to walk down the street and not have their liberties interfered with because the police are unable to guarantee their safety because of the behaviour of a group of other people.
As I understand it the man in question was potentially facing arrest for breach of the peace simply because of his attire and going about his daily business. It is the threat of arrest that is wrong. I do sympathise with the police in the difficulties they face in trying to control the behaviour of a large group of people but the way this was handled was clearly wrong. |
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I think the issue with the terminology used by the police officer isn’t the “Jewish” it’s the word “openly”- it carries a lot of historical connotations that make it a not-particularly-coded way of implying that there is something negative about the characteristic it is being attached to that means that characteristic is something shameful that should be hidden from view. This makes the complete phrase polite (in the sense of not being overtly offensive language) but derogatory.
So the problem is that the officer gave the impression that he believed that being Jewish is inherently bad. I’d like to think that he doesn’t actually feel that way, and just chose his words poorly, but given how poor the Met Police’s record has been on matters of Race/Religion etc recently, the organisation does need to try much harder to avoid further reputational harm. |
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Good to see the met police chief actually come out fighting with some facts finally. It's amazing how the media and those with mal intent are able to sucker us in.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/apr/22/met-police-chief-praises-professional-conduct-officer-antisemitism-row
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"Is apparently an offensive term? Is being openly or obviously of a particular faith or race offensive? "
Nothing wrong with it. I have friends who are Jewish and proud of their faith, race and heritage  |
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"Is apparently an offensive term? Is being openly or obviously of a particular faith or race offensive? "
__
Says who? And what has Jewish got to do with race? I openly believe that all organised religion is a pyramid scheme tho hold power over millions of people. Faith, at a personal level, I have no issues with it and brings many positives to those that believe in someone or something. |
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"Is apparently an offensive term? Is being openly or obviously of a particular faith or race offensive?
Nothing wrong with it. I have friends who are Jewish and proud of their faith, race and heritage "
Good and so they should be, they have been on the rough end of treatment and persecution since antiquity |
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I think the officer meant 'flagrantly', because the man in question was clearly trying to antagonise other through his appearance.
Certain parties have eagerly and predictably jumped on his misuse of 'openly'.
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I hate when people whine. You can do what you want but don't force your ideology on me. Jews are the most protected people by far so I don't feel sorry for them and I'm tired of them crying now but this is what happens, just like some people are tired of hearing about BLM. All I hear is crying but no solutions. |
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"Is apparently an offensive term? Is being openly or obviously of a particular faith or race offensive?
__
Says who? And what has Jewish got to do with race? I openly believe that all organised religion is a pyramid scheme tho hold power over millions of people. Faith, at a personal level, I have no issues with it and brings many positives to those that believe in someone or something."
There are plenty of non religious Jewish people. Being Jewish is an ethnic and cultural identity which is somewhat separate from the religious side of Jewishness. |
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"I hate when people whine. You can do what you want but don't force your ideology on me. Jews are the most protected people by far so I don't feel sorry for them and I'm tired of them crying now but this is what happens, just like some people are tired of hearing about BLM. All I hear is crying but no solutions. "
Where has ideology been forced on you?
"Jews are the most protected people by far" = citation required. |
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"I hate when people whine. You can do what you want but don't force your ideology on me. Jews are the most protected people by far so I don't feel sorry for them and I'm tired of them crying now but this is what happens, just like some people are tired of hearing about BLM. All I hear is crying but no solutions. "
Are the solutions 'stop killing us' not loud enough?
Evie |
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Your average Jewish person on the street is a normal person just like your average Palestinian person. Some might be indoctrinated by propaganda etc but most will be normal decent people. It’s Mossad, the Israeli government, hamas that are clinically insane. The people shouldn’t be judged by the actions of the people in charge |
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"Your average Jewish person on the street is a normal person just like your average Palestinian person. Some might be indoctrinated by propaganda etc but most will be normal decent people. It’s Mossad, the Israeli government, hamas that are clinically insane. The people shouldn’t be judged by the actions of the people in charge "
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"Or openly cuntish "
You see if the cop had said... "you're being openly cunt ish" he'd have probably got away with it. Although perhaps cunt owners would have been up in arms and required an apology. |
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"Or openly cuntish
You see if the cop had said... "you're being openly cunt ish" he'd have probably got away with it. Although perhaps cunt owners would have been up in arms and required an apology. "
And even those without would have been offended on the behalf of those with |
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