FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Unpaid Leave
Unpaid Leave
Jump to: Newest in thread
 |
By *uri00620 OP Woman
over a year ago
Croydon |
If you have to take a day off bc of a poorly child does your employer give it as unpaid leave?
My work place is public sector and that's the case. Tomorrow with a poorly child I have to send in my work for the day which I'll have to do this evening or before 7am, yet the day isn't paid. So that means paying for childcare for the day and having pay docked.
Actually my workplace makes money from me not being there. I set the day's work. Someone internally is paid to cover who is getting paid anyway to cover anyone off and they don't pay me. It's a win for them actually. I've not had any days off this year myself or for my child but doesn't come out of my sick allowance (which would technically be another 9 days until July).
Is this common practice I wonder?  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Technically, yes. There's a right in employment law to take "emergency leave for dependents" but it's an unpaid right. Some employers might offer a contractual enhancement for it to be paid, or allow annual leave to be used instead, but many do just apply the unpaid emergency time off thing.
It's crap, I know  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *uri00620 OP Woman
over a year ago
Croydon |
"Technically, yes. There's a right in employment law to take "emergency leave for dependents" but it's an unpaid right. Some employers might offer a contractual enhancement for it to be paid, or allow annual leave to be used instead, but many do just apply the unpaid emergency time off thing.
It's crap, I know "
I just can't believe it's not something I can take out of my allowance. In 7 years I've had 3 days off and that was bc of an operation! It's crap and penalises single parents moreso. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Btw OP, if you are taking emergency unpaid leave, you are actually under no obligation to set work or do anything work related. Tell them where the students are up to in the SoW and whoever covers will have to sort it from there. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *uri00620 OP Woman
over a year ago
Croydon |
"You don't get paid but still do your job? Or am I going mad? "
In education you plan all your lessons for the day and resource them (so ill have to do post 9pm after child's bedtime). Someone else internally is employed as "cover" if someone is off sick. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Technically, yes. There's a right in employment law to take "emergency leave for dependents" but it's an unpaid right. Some employers might offer a contractual enhancement for it to be paid, or allow annual leave to be used instead, but many do just apply the unpaid emergency time off thing.
It's crap, I know
I just can't believe it's not something I can take out of my allowance. In 7 years I've had 3 days off and that was bc of an operation! It's crap and penalises single parents moreso. "
Have you asked about using annual leave? That's what we usually offer people as the alternative to being unpaid, if they have it left to use. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"If you have to take a day off bc of a poorly child does your employer give it as unpaid leave?
My work place is public sector and that's the case. Tomorrow with a poorly child I have to send in my work for the day which I'll have to do this evening or before 7am, yet the day isn't paid. So that means paying for childcare for the day and having pay docked.
Actually my workplace makes money from me not being there. I set the day's work. Someone internally is paid to cover who is getting paid anyway to cover anyone off and they don't pay me. It's a win for them actually. I've not had any days off this year myself or for my child but doesn't come out of my sick allowance (which would technically be another 9 days until July).
Is this common practice I wonder? "
I’m afraid so. Disgusting but so. I’m a postman and our sick pay has been torn to pieces in this awful deal people signed to (not me). The service is shocking and i spend most of my day apologising for the service which isn’t my fault. You are a victim of a Tory government same as me the country is propped up on privatised companies being rinsed and torn to pieces but multi millionaire share holders. I honestly fear for our economy. Sorry about the rant and sorry your being treated so disgracefully |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *uri00620 OP Woman
over a year ago
Croydon |
"Btw OP, if you are taking emergency unpaid leave, you are actually under no obligation to set work or do anything work related. Tell them where the students are up to in the SoW and whoever covers will have to sort it from there. "
We have to. In fact I don't work Mondays but bc my exam students have exams on that particular day they have an extra pre-exam lesson. I'm expected to plan and resource that too. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Btw OP, if you are taking emergency unpaid leave, you are actually under no obligation to set work or do anything work related. Tell them where the students are up to in the SoW and whoever covers will have to sort it from there.
We have to. In fact I don't work Mondays but bc my exam students have exams on that particular day they have an extra pre-exam lesson. I'm expected to plan and resource that too."
Expected and actually HAVE to (contractually or legally) are different things. After day 1 of someone being off, we wouldn't expect them to set work or do anything. On day 1, it's helpful to have something to go at, but that's why we write SoW, right? You should be able to say "they're on week X or topic Y" and the cover person should have access to appropriate resources to at least make a start. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *uri00620 OP Woman
over a year ago
Croydon |
"Btw OP, if you are taking emergency unpaid leave, you are actually under no obligation to set work or do anything work related. Tell them where the students are up to in the SoW and whoever covers will have to sort it from there.
We have to. In fact I don't work Mondays but bc my exam students have exams on that particular day they have an extra pre-exam lesson. I'm expected to plan and resource that too.
Expected and actually HAVE to (contractually or legally) are different things. After day 1 of someone being off, we wouldn't expect them to set work or do anything. On day 1, it's helpful to have something to go at, but that's why we write SoW, right? You should be able to say "they're on week X or topic Y" and the cover person should have access to appropriate resources to at least make a start. "
This is where its tricky, but I know what you mean. Not setting proper cover, particularly bc most of my classes are very low ability I can't teach off the sow. They need something really personalised. So I feel I'm doing them a disservice plus stressing out the covering person and my hod - who after all doesn't make up these stupid rules |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *uri00620 OP Woman
over a year ago
Croydon |
"Technically, yes. There's a right in employment law to take "emergency leave for dependents" but it's an unpaid right. Some employers might offer a contractual enhancement for it to be paid, or allow annual leave to be used instead, but many do just apply the unpaid emergency time off thing.
It's crap, I know
I just can't believe it's not something I can take out of my allowance. In 7 years I've had 3 days off and that was bc of an operation! It's crap and penalises single parents moreso.
Have you asked about using annual leave? That's what we usually offer people as the alternative to being unpaid, if they have it left to use. "
We're told that's not an option.  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Btw OP, if you are taking emergency unpaid leave, you are actually under no obligation to set work or do anything work related. Tell them where the students are up to in the SoW and whoever covers will have to sort it from there.
We have to. In fact I don't work Mondays but bc my exam students have exams on that particular day they have an extra pre-exam lesson. I'm expected to plan and resource that too.
Expected and actually HAVE to (contractually or legally) are different things. After day 1 of someone being off, we wouldn't expect them to set work or do anything. On day 1, it's helpful to have something to go at, but that's why we write SoW, right? You should be able to say "they're on week X or topic Y" and the cover person should have access to appropriate resources to at least make a start.
This is where its tricky, but I know what you mean. Not setting proper cover, particularly bc most of my classes are very low ability I can't teach off the sow. They need something really personalised. So I feel I'm doing them a disservice plus stressing out the covering person and my hod - who after all doesn't make up these stupid rules "
Seriously, they cannot mandate that you work on unpaid leave (or any leave)! What if you were in hospital with your child? You wouldn't be able to set or do anything. Once your students get past day 1, presumably you don't know exactly what they've done or not, so how can you set personalized content? That's what your HoD is paid to solve. They are responsible for sorting staffing and all staffing involves periods of absence for various reasons.
I feel very qualified to say that  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I’m in an unusually fortunate position of being able to stay home and not HAVE to work. Child sick days means I get out of the housework instead of missing pay. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *uri00620 OP Woman
over a year ago
Croydon |
"In future it might be worth you being the ill one 
I'm lucky I think I get up to 5 days paid a year, for looking after a dependant "
Oh sure, it's pretty much what everyone does but I got called away from work bc of poorly baby so it's known today. Childcare won't have her back tomo so I can't go in.
I'm feeling a little ill myself all of a sudden though (cough cough)!!  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"In future it might be worth you being the ill one
I'm lucky I think I get up to 5 days paid a year, for looking after a dependant
Oh sure, it's pretty much what everyone does but I got called away from work bc of poorly baby so it's known today. Childcare won't have her back tomo so I can't go in.
I'm feeling a little ill myself all of a sudden though (cough cough)!! "
Oh that's annoying then.
At least it will soon be half term  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *uri00620 OP Woman
over a year ago
Croydon |
"Btw OP, if you are taking emergency unpaid leave, you are actually under no obligation to set work or do anything work related. Tell them where the students are up to in the SoW and whoever covers will have to sort it from there.
We have to. In fact I don't work Mondays but bc my exam students have exams on that particular day they have an extra pre-exam lesson. I'm expected to plan and resource that too.
Expected and actually HAVE to (contractually or legally) are different things. After day 1 of someone being off, we wouldn't expect them to set work or do anything. On day 1, it's helpful to have something to go at, but that's why we write SoW, right? You should be able to say "they're on week X or topic Y" and the cover person should have access to appropriate resources to at least make a start.
This is where its tricky, but I know what you mean. Not setting proper cover, particularly bc most of my classes are very low ability I can't teach off the sow. They need something really personalised. So I feel I'm doing them a disservice plus stressing out the covering person and my hod - who after all doesn't make up these stupid rules
Seriously, they cannot mandate that you work on unpaid leave (or any leave)! What if you were in hospital with your child? You wouldn't be able to set or do anything. Once your students get past day 1, presumably you don't know exactly what they've done or not, so how can you set personalized content? That's what your HoD is paid to solve. They are responsible for sorting staffing and all staffing involves periods of absence for various reasons.
I feel very qualified to say that "
Actually when in hospital after an emergency miscarriage for 3 nights my hod brought a laptop in so I could plan cover. And I did. In fact that same morning of my operation. The nurses couldn't believe it.
I just didn't want to let anyone down. It just leaves a bad feeling when you do things like that then there's zero reciprocal goodwill. Makes me think I won't bother in future and I've never been like that.
Sorry I'm ranting I realise!
But yes you're absolutely right. Our new union rep feels very much up against it with things like this |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
We can have up to 2 days paid emergency child care leave, use annual leave or any toil accrued or unpaid leave
Or what I am my team do is work around the child who is sick and make up hours. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
" Actually when in hospital after an emergency miscarriage for 3 nights my hod brought a laptop in so I could plan cover. And I did. In fact that same morning of my operation. The nurses couldn't believe it.
I just didn't want to let anyone down. It just leaves a bad feeling when you do things like that then there's zero reciprocal goodwill. Makes me think I won't bother in future and I've never been like that.
Sorry I'm ranting I realise!
But yes you're absolutely right. Our new union rep feels very much up against it with things like this "
*Hello, is that the Employment Tribunal people, I have a watertight care for you*
Yeah, that's just not on. Totally and utterly not on. I hope your rep gets somewhere because if nothing else, your college is exposing themselves to a major HR disaster by not just expecting, but effectively forcing people to work when on sick leave.
I totally understand how you feel about having a duty to provide continuity to your students, but shit happens and your HoD is tasked with resolving shit. Asking sick people or people on leave to work, is not resolving anything.
Can you imagine someone who worked in a bank* having a laptop brought to them in hospital and being asked to work?
*Or any other employment type?! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Btw OP, if you are taking emergency unpaid leave, you are actually under no obligation to set work or do anything work related. Tell them where the students are up to in the SoW and whoever covers will have to sort it from there.
We have to. In fact I don't work Mondays but bc my exam students have exams on that particular day they have an extra pre-exam lesson. I'm expected to plan and resource that too.
Expected and actually HAVE to (contractually or legally) are different things. After day 1 of someone being off, we wouldn't expect them to set work or do anything. On day 1, it's helpful to have something to go at, but that's why we write SoW, right? You should be able to say "they're on week X or topic Y" and the cover person should have access to appropriate resources to at least make a start.
This is where its tricky, but I know what you mean. Not setting proper cover, particularly bc most of my classes are very low ability I can't teach off the sow. They need something really personalised. So I feel I'm doing them a disservice plus stressing out the covering person and my hod - who after all doesn't make up these stupid rules
Seriously, they cannot mandate that you work on unpaid leave (or any leave)! What if you were in hospital with your child? You wouldn't be able to set or do anything. Once your students get past day 1, presumably you don't know exactly what they've done or not, so how can you set personalized content? That's what your HoD is paid to solve. They are responsible for sorting staffing and all staffing involves periods of absence for various reasons.
I feel very qualified to say that
Actually when in hospital after an emergency miscarriage for 3 nights my hod brought a laptop in so I could plan cover. And I did. In fact that same morning of my operation. The nurses couldn't believe it.
I just didn't want to let anyone down. It just leaves a bad feeling when you do things like that then there's zero reciprocal goodwill. Makes me think I won't bother in future and I've never been like that.
Sorry I'm ranting I realise!
But yes you're absolutely right. Our new union rep feels very much up against it with things like this "
Start saying no to such ridiculous requests |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *uri00620 OP Woman
over a year ago
Croydon |
" Actually when in hospital after an emergency miscarriage for 3 nights my hod brought a laptop in so I could plan cover. And I did. In fact that same morning of my operation. The nurses couldn't believe it.
I just didn't want to let anyone down. It just leaves a bad feeling when you do things like that then there's zero reciprocal goodwill. Makes me think I won't bother in future and I've never been like that.
Sorry I'm ranting I realise!
But yes you're absolutely right. Our new union rep feels very much up against it with things like this
*Hello, is that the Employment Tribunal people, I have a watertight care for you*
Yeah, that's just not on. Totally and utterly not on. I hope your rep gets somewhere because if nothing else, your college is exposing themselves to a major HR disaster by not just expecting, but effectively forcing people to work when on sick leave.
I totally understand how you feel about having a duty to provide continuity to your students, but shit happens and your HoD is tasked with resolving shit. Asking sick people or people on leave to work, is not resolving anything.
Can you imagine someone who worked in a bank* having a laptop brought to them in hospital and being asked to work?
*Or any other employment type?! "
You're right, thanks. I've told the rep I've had a forum discussion about this. I omitted the part where I said from where though |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *uri00620 OP Woman
over a year ago
Croydon |
"If you have to take a day off bc of a poorly child does your employer give it as unpaid leave?
My work place is public sector and that's the case. Tomorrow with a poorly child I have to send in my work for the day which I'll have to do this evening or before 7am, yet the day isn't paid. So that means paying for childcare for the day and having pay docked.
Actually my workplace makes money from me not being there. I set the day's work. Someone internally is paid to cover who is getting paid anyway to cover anyone off and they don't pay me. It's a win for them actually. I've not had any days off this year myself or for my child but doesn't come out of my sick allowance (which would technically be another 9 days until July).
Is this common practice I wonder? I’m afraid so. Disgusting but so. I’m a postman and our sick pay has been torn to pieces in this awful deal people signed to (not me). The service is shocking and i spend most of my day apologising for the service which isn’t my fault. You are a victim of a Tory government same as me the country is propped up on privatised companies being rinsed and torn to pieces but multi millionaire share holders. I honestly fear for our economy. Sorry about the rant and sorry your being treated so disgracefully "
quite a bleak picture isn't it |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Yeah, I get dependency leave if one of my kids is ill but its not paid. Had a week off with my youngest not to long ago as he was throwing up. I work from home but couldn't work and catch sick unfortunately. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I'm lucky that I work in an industry with strong union representation and near full membership. We have sick pay and management is very understanding. This is a kind of area that yes our employer must allow us the emergency time off but we wouldn't necessarily get paid. However neither would we be expected to do any work for no pay. In our industry all labour must be paid, no labour is for free.
So I understand what you're saying. Your employer is not wanting to pay you for not being in your place of work within your contracted hours but is expecting you to do pre work effectively for free. As a general principle I'd say don't do labour your employer is not paying you for. If they want a lesson plan etc they should pay you accordingly. However I'm not privy to the in's and out's of your contract. And providing the contract is legal in terms of employment law that is a contract that you should stand by. I'm my industry the trade union is solid that we oblige by the terms of our contracts as much as the employer obliges by them too (anything outside of that contract is for the individual to negotiate terms and price). So if its in your contract to do at home then that is the contract (which seems a poor contract for the employee if that is the case). That is why trade unions are so important in the negation of good and fair contracts for their members. But unions are only as powerful as the volume of their membership and the strength of their members solidarity. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Did they not give you the option to take it as annual leave?
No. It's not an option. It'd be more palatable if I didn't do so many hours outside my contract for free "
Point this out to your bosses, and if they persist stop doing work that you're not being paid for |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Our staff mainly get their leave rostered with a small portion of it to be used “ad-hoc” .If it’s emergency leave the standard will be to take it unpaid but as managers we have the option to offer it as ad-hoc at our discretion. Weirdly I n my experience most people have preferred to take it unpaid. Obviously if it’s happening on a regular basis there would need to be further discussion though |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Could you take a days leave?
I too work in public sector (education), and any time I might need off in an emergency is paid as normal. I also think that the concept of "sickness allowance" is ridiculous. People don't choose to be poorly, and usually have zero control of such things. I've always been lucky and NEVER get ill, but it is only luck.
Cal |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"If you have to take a day off bc of a poorly child does your employer give it as unpaid leave?
My work place is public sector and that's the case. Tomorrow with a poorly child I have to send in my work for the day which I'll have to do this evening or before 7am, yet the day isn't paid. So that means paying for childcare for the day and having pay docked.
Actually my workplace makes money from me not being there. I set the day's work. Someone internally is paid to cover who is getting paid anyway to cover anyone off and they don't pay me. It's a win for them actually. I've not had any days off this year myself or for my child but doesn't come out of my sick allowance (which would technically be another 9 days until July).
Is this common practice I wonder? "
Not sure I follow. Why are you paying for childcare if you're taking the day off to look after your sick child.?
Can you take it as a days holiday?
At my place I can take it unpaid or book a days holiday.
I wouldn't expect to get paid if I'm not at work. Don't get that expectation. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *uri00620 OP Woman
over a year ago
Croydon |
"Could you take a days leave?
I too work in public sector (education), and any time I might need off in an emergency is paid as normal. I also think that the concept of "sickness allowance" is ridiculous. People don't choose to be poorly, and usually have zero control of such things. I've always been lucky and NEVER get ill, but it is only luck.
Cal"
I very rarely get ill. Just as well I hate setting cover so much I'd rather just go in and do lessons myself. Leave isn't an option.
Actually in October I had a flat tyre. Youtube taught me to change it! I was 45 mins late for school. I had a free period anyway. Later that day I got an email saying I could have that as unpaid leave
Interesting yours is paid as normal. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *uri00620 OP Woman
over a year ago
Croydon |
"If you have to take a day off bc of a poorly child does your employer give it as unpaid leave?
My work place is public sector and that's the case. Tomorrow with a poorly child I have to send in my work for the day which I'll have to do this evening or before 7am, yet the day isn't paid. So that means paying for childcare for the day and having pay docked.
Actually my workplace makes money from me not being there. I set the day's work. Someone internally is paid to cover who is getting paid anyway to cover anyone off and they don't pay me. It's a win for them actually. I've not had any days off this year myself or for my child but doesn't come out of my sick allowance (which would technically be another 9 days until July).
Is this common practice I wonder?
Not sure I follow. Why are you paying for childcare if you're taking the day off to look after your sick child.?
Can you take it as a days holiday?
At my place I can take it unpaid or book a days holiday.
I wouldn't expect to get paid if I'm not at work. Don't get that expectation. "
Childminders/nurseries still charge whether the child is there or not. If they're meant to be there Monday - Friday regardless of the situation then it's paid. Same as Bank Holidays, you still pay. So for me where I am is £90 a day. In teaching holidays are school holidays. No flexibility around that. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
