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Military Conscription
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"Lots of talk of bringing this in across Europe to counter Ivan. Who would join and who would not ?." As an ex squadie I would have in the past, now n chance in hell would I fight for our government! | |||
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"Lots of talk of bringing this in across Europe to counter Ivan. Who would join and who would not ?. As an ex squadie I would have in the past, now n chance in hell would I fight for our government! " Also ex military! I’d not fight for this government but I’d sure as hell fight for my country and its people! | |||
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"Lots of talk of bringing this in across Europe to counter Ivan. Who would join and who would not ?. As an ex squadie I would have in the past, now n chance in hell would I fight for our government! Also ex military! I’d not fight for this government but I’d sure as hell fight for my country and its people!" Yeah I have and would, but it’s hardly a country when you have no borders! The real threat is already here, sending money or men to Ukraine or Russia is just wasteful in my opinion! | |||
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"Lots of talk of bringing this in across Europe to counter Ivan. Who would join and who would not ?. As an ex squadie I would have in the past, now n chance in hell would I fight for our government! Also ex military! I’d not fight for this government but I’d sure as hell fight for my country and its people! Yeah I have and would, but it’s hardly a country when you have no borders! The real threat is already here, sending money or men to Ukraine or Russia is just wasteful in my opinion! " Too late. Should have sent NATO troops in when Russia incurred Crimea! Would have showered Putin the west would not put up with his bullying! As for our borders, we need a military force to patrol our waters and just turn the back! People said the Rwanda scheme didn’t work but they never allowed it get off! The lefty lawyers backed by starmer and his comrades stopped every attempt! | |||
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"When in war a soldier doesn't fight against what's in front of him, he fights for what's behind him. And I don't see anything behind him worth fighting for just now?" Very well put  | |||
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"Let’s face it the youth of today get offended by hurty words on social media and don’t even know what pro nouns they are!" And “they” is not a personal pronoun! | |||
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"When in war a soldier doesn't fight against what's in front of him, he fights for what's behind him. And I don't see anything behind him worth fighting for just now? Very well put "I certainly agree if we're talking about defending the rights of carpetbaggers to coin it in big-time and at the same time fill our rivers with shit ... and the others who are basically taking the mickey when they should be providing a public service. Levying a national utilities tax and putting the proceeds towards national defence would help me be more disposed to the idea of being called up. (There's actually not much chance of that given my age and other medical factors, but put a machine gun in my hand and I'll be quite happy to defend the homeland when the time comes that Trump decides that the next stage of the US military occupation of the UK should proceed. He's mad enough...) | |||
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"Let’s face it the youth of today get offended by hurty words on social media and don’t even know what pro nouns they are!" Since when did identity politics have anything to do with the subject of military conscription. Just revealing your own bigotry here. | |||
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"Lots of talk of bringing this in across Europe to counter Ivan. Who would join and who would not ?. As an ex squadie I would have in the past, now n chance in hell would I fight for our government! Also ex military! I’d not fight for this government but I’d sure as hell fight for my country and its people! Yeah I have and would, but it’s hardly a country when you have no borders! The real threat is already here, sending money or men to Ukraine or Russia is just wasteful in my opinion! " You're displaying a lot or ignorance today! Are you the fella thay said wokeness was racist earlier too? Ps The Kremlin is loving what the Trump government is doing/saying. Which country did you say you'd fight for? Sorry.[cough cough]. You **think** you'd be fighting for? | |||
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"Lots of talk of bringing this in across Europe to counter Ivan. Who would join and who would not ?. As an ex squadie I would have in the past, now n chance in hell would I fight for our government! Also ex military! I’d not fight for this government but I’d sure as hell fight for my country and its people! Yeah I have and would, but it’s hardly a country when you have no borders! The real threat is already here, sending money or men to Ukraine or Russia is just wasteful in my opinion! You're displaying a lot or ignorance today! Are you the fella thay said wokeness was racist earlier too? Ps The Kremlin is loving what the Trump government is doing/saying. Which country did you say you'd fight for? Sorry.[cough cough]. You **think** you'd be fighting for? " That’s a nasty cough you have there! I have always been a patriot! Served in the British army for several governments but always for the “Country”!!!! Seen active service and still believe in this country! | |||
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"Lots of talk of bringing this in across Europe to counter Ivan. Who would join and who would not ?. As an ex squadie I would have in the past, now n chance in hell would I fight for our government! " You don’t fight for your government. You fight for your country. | |||
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"Lots of talk of bringing this in across Europe to counter Ivan. Who would join and who would not ?. As an ex squadie I would have in the past, now n chance in hell would I fight for our government! You don’t fight for your government. You fight for your country." Absolutely! | |||
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"Ex military and there is not cat in hells chance I'd fight for this country. It's lost now. Call up the left wing nuts and liberals. All this country has done is rip me off to give to others." So the political right did nothing to cause the mess we are in and so shouldn’t be part of conscription? Interesting take. | |||
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"If your called you're in.. But why would anyone want to fight for this labour and the king. White men are class as the lowest of the low and would be expected to die for this lot. Plus 30 year time your be up for murder. " I didn't realise conscription would be along ethnic lines. You learn something new every day. | |||
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"When the Falklands war broke out people (mostly young men) were queuing quite literally round the block to enlist even though there was no conscription. I don't know if it would be the same now but if recent riots are anything to go by..." I think there's now a fundamental disagreement about what or who we'd be fighting for. | |||
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"If your called you're in.. But why would anyone want to fight for this labour and the king. White men are class as the lowest of the low and would be expected to die for this lot. Plus 30 year time your be up for murder. I didn't realise conscription would be along ethnic lines. You learn something new every day." There'll also be a pronoun test | |||
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"When the Falklands war broke out people (mostly young men) were queuing quite literally round the block to enlist even though there was no conscription. I don't know if it would be the same now but if recent riots are anything to go by..." I don't think I want the rioters to serve in the military. I'll put myself on the front line first, I'm sure there's mileage in a sitting target  | |||
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"When the Falklands war broke out people (mostly young men) were queuing quite literally round the block to enlist even though there was no conscription. I don't know if it would be the same now but if recent riots are anything to go by... I think there's now a fundamental disagreement about what or who we'd be fighting for. " So it would seem. | |||
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"Instead of training us to fight and (and possibly die) for politicians that wage war, they could train us all in how to negotiate for and maintain peace. Yes, it's unimaginable but over 6% of the UK adult population died in the first world war; that what conscription achieves, maybe it's time for a new approach?" There are many ways to skin a cat. And a lot of ways to contribute to our way of life persisting, with and without external threats. | |||
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"When the Falklands war broke out people (mostly young men) were queuing quite literally round the block to enlist even though there was no conscription. I don't know if it would be the same now but if recent riots are anything to go by... I don't think I want the rioters to serve in the military. I'll put myself on the front line first, I'm sure there's mileage in a sitting target "Cowards to a man/woman. I wonder if some of the swaggering louts might see themselves as heroes spoiling for a fight though. I'm glad I'm too old and that our kids are approaching being too old for the first call up. | |||
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"My wife grew up under Russian occupation so I have a better idea than most (in this country) how bad it actually is. Anyone that doesn't want to fight for their (and their children's) freedom are welcome to enjoy their new lives under their Soviet or Chinese masters. K." I think a lot of people change their minds when they realise how close a threat is. I'm not brave I wouldn't volunteer to fight (they wouldn't have me anyway) but if we were under serious threat I'd be happy to contribute in any way that I could. | |||
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"My wife grew up under Russian occupation so I have a better idea than most (in this country) how bad it actually is. Anyone that doesn't want to fight for their (and their children's) freedom are welcome to enjoy their new lives under their Soviet or Chinese masters. K. I think a lot of people change their minds when they realise how close a threat is. I'm not brave I wouldn't volunteer to fight (they wouldn't have me anyway) but if we were under serious threat I'd be happy to contribute in any way that I could. " I don't think I'd be eligible as a non-citizen. But there are a lot of ways to help in the background. Not everyone has to throw their bodies into a meat grinder. | |||
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"My wife grew up under Russian occupation so I have a better idea than most (in this country) how bad it actually is. Anyone that doesn't want to fight for their (and their children's) freedom are welcome to enjoy their new lives under their Soviet or Chinese masters. K. I think a lot of people change their minds when they realise how close a threat is. I'm not brave I wouldn't volunteer to fight (they wouldn't have me anyway) but if we were under serious threat I'd be happy to contribute in any way that I could. I don't think I'd be eligible as a non-citizen. But there are a lot of ways to help in the background. Not everyone has to throw their bodies into a meat grinder." I sincerely hope it doesn't come to it, I really do. I guess I'd be knitting balaclavas and handing out cups of tea to the lambs heading to the slaughter | |||
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"My wife grew up under Russian occupation so I have a better idea than most (in this country) how bad it actually is. Anyone that doesn't want to fight for their (and their children's) freedom are welcome to enjoy their new lives under their Soviet or Chinese masters. K. I think a lot of people change their minds when they realise how close a threat is. I'm not brave I wouldn't volunteer to fight (they wouldn't have me anyway) but if we were under serious threat I'd be happy to contribute in any way that I could. I don't think I'd be eligible as a non-citizen. But there are a lot of ways to help in the background. Not everyone has to throw their bodies into a meat grinder. I sincerely hope it doesn't come to it, I really do. I guess I'd be knitting balaclavas and handing out cups of tea to the lambs heading to the slaughter" I can't stop thinking about the strength of civil society as being key to winning wars | |||
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"My wife grew up under Russian occupation so I have a better idea than most (in this country) how bad it actually is. Anyone that doesn't want to fight for their (and their children's) freedom are welcome to enjoy their new lives under their Soviet or Chinese masters. K." What does she think of the direction this country has been going in? Locking people up for speech and such? | |||
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"I will join up but only on the understanding that they will laugh me out of the room for my age..... and I will let them and then the Times can do a wonderful piece about the patriotic granny who is walking laps of the garden cos she wasn't allowed to sign up and all the daft people in the country will start a go fund me page ( I said go FUND me ) and I will become rich and sod off to the Maldives or the Bahamas.... somewhere like that. Im so brave " | |||
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" I didn't realise conscription would be along ethnic lines. You learn something new every day." It happened in America during the Vietnam War, afro American men were being conscripted by the thousand whereas white college boys were staying in education... eventually, because people were starting to notice along with the murder of MLK, black panther forming and the Mexico Olympics in 68 (fist in the air) .. they had to change the process and came up with a birthday lottery broadcast live on TV to make it look fair... Imagine having your birthday date picked out a bowl to send you to war!! I did my bit in the 90's when the gulf War started and I'd do it again. | |||
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"I will join up but only on the understanding that they will laugh me out of the room for my age..... and I will let them and then the Times can do a wonderful piece about the patriotic granny who is walking laps of the garden cos she wasn't allowed to sign up and all the daft people in the country will start a go fund me page ( I said go FUND me ) and I will become rich and sod off to the Maldives or the Bahamas.... somewhere like that. Im so brave " I'll start a charitable foundation on your behalf, Granny. I'm SUCH a kind person  | |||
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"My wife grew up under Russian occupation so I have a better idea than most (in this country) how bad it actually is. Anyone that doesn't want to fight for their (and their children's) freedom are welcome to enjoy their new lives under their Soviet or Chinese masters. K. I think a lot of people change their minds when they realise how close a threat is. I'm not brave I wouldn't volunteer to fight (they wouldn't have me anyway) but if we were under serious threat I'd be happy to contribute in any way that I could. I don't think I'd be eligible as a non-citizen. But there are a lot of ways to help in the background. Not everyone has to throw their bodies into a meat grinder. I sincerely hope it doesn't come to it, I really do. I guess I'd be knitting balaclavas and handing out cups of tea to the lambs heading to the slaughter I can't stop thinking about the strength of civil society as being key to winning wars" Vastly under appreciated in the last two wars...after they'd ended. | |||
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"My wife grew up under Russian occupation so I have a better idea than most (in this country) how bad it actually is. Anyone that doesn't want to fight for their (and their children's) freedom are welcome to enjoy their new lives under their Soviet or Chinese masters. K. I think a lot of people change their minds when they realise how close a threat is. I'm not brave I wouldn't volunteer to fight (they wouldn't have me anyway) but if we were under serious threat I'd be happy to contribute in any way that I could. I don't think I'd be eligible as a non-citizen. But there are a lot of ways to help in the background. Not everyone has to throw their bodies into a meat grinder. I sincerely hope it doesn't come to it, I really do. I guess I'd be knitting balaclavas and handing out cups of tea to the lambs heading to the slaughter I can't stop thinking about the strength of civil society as being key to winning wars Vastly under appreciated in the last two wars...after they'd ended. " I think it's work we need to do now, not wait until war breaks out. Particularly as third spaces have been eroded so thoroughly. How would we go about creating common cause, solidarity, with our neighbours? | |||
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"We don't have the infrastructure or manpower to train a conscript army. Barracks are falling to pieces and food is absolutely shocking. Plus when I was in we had enough trouble controlling some of the volunteers never mind people that don't want to be there in the first place ! Renew the nuclear deterrent and invest in conventional long range misses. Let the main land deal with the Russian threat. " Yes we do have the infrastructure…. but may not all be as good as we would like. 😉. Go back to 1915 … the 1st time we had conscription, many formed up and were billeted in tents on local playing fields… our little darlings would probably object on the grounds of no WiFi or single ‘person’ rooms if we resorted to this.😏 R 😘 | |||
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"Lots of talk of bringing this in across Europe to counter Ivan. Who would join and who would not ?. As an ex squadie I would have in the past, now n chance in hell would I fight for our government! Also ex military! I’d not fight for this government but I’d sure as hell fight for my country and its people!" Well said and I completely agree  | |||
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"We don't have the infrastructure or manpower to train a conscript army. Barracks are falling to pieces and food is absolutely shocking. Plus when I was in we had enough trouble controlling some of the volunteers never mind people that don't want to be there in the first place ! Renew the nuclear deterrent and invest in conventional long range misses. Let the main land deal with the Russian threat. Yes we do have the infrastructure…. but may not all be as good as we would like. 😉. Go back to 1915 … the 1st time we had conscription, many formed up and were billeted in tents on local playing fields… our little darlings would probably object on the grounds of no WiFi or single ‘person’ rooms if we resorted to this.😏 R 😘 " As somebody who's recently left and who lived in the rat and mold infested block where the heating didn't work for half the winter I can categorically state that we don't have enough infrastructure fit for human occupation to train a conscript army  | |||
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"Let’s face it the youth of today get offended by hurty words on social media and don’t even know what pro nouns they are!" Ask the Gunny! | |||
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"I wonder if our forefathers spoke about their kids generation the way people do in here. Some quite eye opening whataboutery on display." How far back do you you want to go, decades or generations? | |||
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"How many women weant equality enough to go on the front line and fight? Other countries have asked this question and allowed women to be combatants. " They do here. Woman are in the infantry as infanteers | |||
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"I wonder if our forefathers spoke about their kids generation the way people do in here. Some quite eye opening whataboutery on display." Plato and further back did. These edgy original thinkers are in a long tradition of unoriginality. | |||
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"I wonder if our forefathers spoke about their kids generation the way people do in here. Some quite eye opening whataboutery on display. How far back do you you want to go, decades or generations?" A few decades would be enough as an interesting comparison, though this place is a small fraction of thoughts and unless a wider opinion of both sets was canvassed, we’d never really know. | |||
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"Let’s face it the youth of today get offended by hurty words on social media and don’t even know what pro nouns they are! Ask the Gunny!" From what I've seen it's the older generation that get more offended by words on screens and the opinions of others. And 'the youth' generally know exactly what pronouns they've chosen. It's some more aged folk that struggle to ignore other people's decisions, get on with their own lives and not worry about someone else's choice that doesn't affect them in the slightest. *oh, and no. I wouldn't volunteer. Not unless any war rocked up on these shores. | |||
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"Lots of talk of bringing this in across Europe to counter Ivan. Who would join and who would not ?. As an ex squadie I would have in the past, now n chance in hell would I fight for our government! You don’t fight for your government. You fight for your country." This right here is why you fight. I never fought for governments or politics it was always for the people of the country, so that they can live in relative peace amd freedom. | |||
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"Lots of talk of bringing this in across Europe to counter Ivan. Who would join and who would not ?. As an ex squadie I would have in the past, now n chance in hell would I fight for our government! " You wouldn't be fighting for the government and you'd wouldn't have worn your oath to the government | |||
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"If your called you're in.. But why would anyone want to fight for this labour and the king. White men are class as the lowest of the low and would be expected to die for this lot. Plus 30 year time your be up for murder. I didn't realise conscription would be along ethnic lines. You learn something new every day." Only straight, white MEN are useful! Haven't you learned anything? | |||
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"We don't have the infrastructure or manpower to train a conscript army. Barracks are falling to pieces and food is absolutely shocking. Plus when I was in we had enough trouble controlling some of the volunteers never mind people that don't want to be there in the first place ! Renew the nuclear deterrent and invest in conventional long range misses. Let the main land deal with the Russian threat. Yes we do have the infrastructure…. but may not all be as good as we would like. 😉. Go back to 1915 … the 1st time we had conscription, many formed up and were billeted in tents on local playing fields… our little darlings would probably object on the grounds of no WiFi or single ‘person’ rooms if we resorted to this.😏 R 😘 As somebody who's recently left and who lived in the rat and mold infested block where the heating didn't work for half the winter I can categorically state that we don't have enough infrastructure fit for human occupation to train a conscript army "We are training an Army of Ukrainians … who don’t seem to be complaining!! The accommodation we would use would not be pretty.. far from it, but would meet the need. There is sufficient transit accommodation and other MOD infrastructure that would be pressed into service - trust me! 😉 | |||
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"Lots of talk of bringing this in across Europe to counter Ivan. Who would join and who would not ?." Surely if you are conscripted, you would not have a choice unless health or wealth gained you a pass | |||
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"Lots of talk of bringing this in across Europe to counter Ivan. Who would join and who would not ?. Surely if you are conscripted, you would not have a choice unless health or wealth gained you a pass" I’m Safe then | |||
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"Lots of talk of bringing this in across Europe to counter Ivan. Who would join and who would not ?. As an ex squadie I would have in the past, now n chance in hell would I fight for our government! Also ex military! I’d not fight for this government but I’d sure as hell fight for my country and its people! Yeah I have and would, but it’s hardly a country when you have no borders! The real threat is already here, sending money or men to Ukraine or Russia is just wasteful in my opinion! " Oh this old pipe of crap again. | |||
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"Lots of talk of bringing this in across Europe to counter Ivan. Who would join and who would not ?. As an ex squadie I would have in the past, now n chance in hell would I fight for our government! You don’t fight for your government. You fight for your country. This right here is why you fight. I never fought for governments or politics it was always for the people of the country, so that they can live in relative peace amd freedom. " Whose peace and freedom did Iraq and Afghanistan wars help with? It was hardly saving Britain was it! | |||
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"I'm fat, middle-aged, and not patriotic, so they'd have to catch me first. (Which would be really easy, due to being fat and middle-aged)" | |||
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"Lots of talk of bringing this in across Europe to counter Ivan. Who would join and who would not ?. As an ex squadie I would have in the past, now n chance in hell would I fight for our government! You don’t fight for your government. You fight for your country. This right here is why you fight. I never fought for governments or politics it was always for the people of the country, so that they can live in relative peace amd freedom. Whose peace and freedom did Iraq and Afghanistan wars help with? It was hardly saving Britain was it!" Nope, but it kept fuel prices down for about a week 🤣🤣 | |||
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"Lots of interesting opinions.. But you do know we are all talking about a generation that literally bursts into tears when shouted at...99% of them wouldn't survive basic training let alone being shot out....but don't panic people us Gen X would gladly step up and protect." The veterans from the Boer war probably thought the same about the conscripts in 1914, pretty sure we had the same types of talk in South Armagh in the late 70's about the 'kids' back over the water.. But the same kids did their stuff in Iraq, Afghanistan later on.. | |||
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"Lots of interesting opinions.. But you do know we are all talking about a generation that literally bursts into tears when shouted at...99% of them wouldn't survive basic training let alone being shot out....but don't panic people us Gen X would gladly step up and protect. The veterans from the Boer war probably thought the same about the conscripts in 1914, pretty sure we had the same types of talk in South Armagh in the late 70's about the 'kids' back over the water.. But the same kids did their stuff in Iraq, Afghanistan later on.. " I hear you.... however the "kids" in Iraq/Afghanistan wasn't conscipts | |||
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"Lots of talk of bringing this in across Europe to counter Ivan. Who would join and who would not ?. Surely if you are conscripted, you would not have a choice unless health or wealth gained you a pass" As I understand, you also cannot be conscripted into the UK's armed forces unless you hold a UK passport, even if you live here. | |||
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"How many women weant equality enough to go on the front line and fight? Other countries have asked this question and allowed women to be combatants. They do here. Woman are in the infantry as infanteers " Cool, when did the MOD change the rules? | |||
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"How many women weant equality enough to go on the front line and fight? Other countries have asked this question and allowed women to be combatants. They do here. Woman are in the infantry as infanteers Cool, when did the MOD change the rules?" 2018 | |||
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"I wonder if our forefathers spoke about their kids generation the way people do in here. Some quite eye opening whataboutery on display. Plato and further back did. These edgy original thinkers are in a long tradition of unoriginality. " What's ancient Greek, Roman, Pesian, Aboriginal for 'Tsk! Kids-these days'? | |||
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"Lots of talk of bringing this in across Europe to counter Ivan. Who would join and who would not ?. As an ex squadie I would have in the past, now n chance in hell would I fight for our government! Also ex military! I’d not fight for this government but I’d sure as hell fight for my country and its people!" That's what I thought. This is about the country, not government. | |||
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"How many women weant equality enough to go on the front line and fight? Other countries have asked this question and allowed women to be combatants. They do here. Woman are in the infantry as infanteers Cool, when did the MOD change the rules?" I'd wait until they all sync up there periods then let them loose....they'd be fucking formidable 🤣🤣 | |||
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"I wonder if our forefathers spoke about their kids generation the way people do in here. Some quite eye opening whataboutery on display. Plato and further back did. These edgy original thinkers are in a long tradition of unoriginality. What's ancient Greek, Roman, Pesian, Aboriginal for 'Tsk! Kids-these days'?" "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." That's the passage from Plato, attributed to Socrates. | |||
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"I wonder if our forefathers spoke about their kids generation the way people do in here. Some quite eye opening whataboutery on display. Plato and further back did. These edgy original thinkers are in a long tradition of unoriginality. What's ancient Greek, Roman, Pesian, Aboriginal for 'Tsk! Kids-these days'? "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." That's the passage from Plato, attributed to Socrates." And to think in a few years time they'll be running the country...scary thought | |||
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"I wonder if our forefathers spoke about their kids generation the way people do in here. Some quite eye opening whataboutery on display. Plato and further back did. These edgy original thinkers are in a long tradition of unoriginality. What's ancient Greek, Roman, Pesian, Aboriginal for 'Tsk! Kids-these days'? "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." That's the passage from Plato, attributed to Socrates. And to think in a few years time they'll be running the country...scary thought" What, people in the mid 5th century BCE?
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"I wonder if our forefathers spoke about their kids generation the way people do in here. Some quite eye opening whataboutery on display. Plato and further back did. These edgy original thinkers are in a long tradition of unoriginality. What's ancient Greek, Roman, Pesian, Aboriginal for 'Tsk! Kids-these days'? "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." That's the passage from Plato, attributed to Socrates. And to think in a few years time they'll be running the country...scary thought What, people in the mid 5th century BCE?
Reading comprehension is helpful "Yep...that was the note Plato passed to Socrates at the end of Geography class 🤣🤣 | |||
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"I wonder if our forefathers spoke about their kids generation the way people do in here. Some quite eye opening whataboutery on display. Plato and further back did. These edgy original thinkers are in a long tradition of unoriginality. What's ancient Greek, Roman, Pesian, Aboriginal for 'Tsk! Kids-these days'? "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." That's the passage from Plato, attributed to Socrates." Bloody hell! Not a truer word said! Absolutely spot on! | |||
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"Lots of talk of bringing this in across Europe to counter Ivan. Who would join and who would not ?." I’d be becoming a Quaker pretty damned quick. | |||
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"Oh and by the way …. If you have recently left, I think you too will find yourself back in Green pretty damned quickly too! 😉" Ha ha ! There's no chance of that ! Let the young ones do the fighting | |||
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"I wonder if our forefathers spoke about their kids generation the way people do in here. Some quite eye opening whataboutery on display. Plato and further back did. These edgy original thinkers are in a long tradition of unoriginality. What's ancient Greek, Roman, Pesian, Aboriginal for 'Tsk! Kids-these days'? "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." That's the passage from Plato, attributed to Socrates. Bloody hell! Not a truer word said! Absolutely spot on!" This is in the era where more than one meal a day was regarded as being for pussies and writing was regarded, by some, as weak shit that'd break your mind. Siding with the ancients is risky business 🤣🤣 | |||
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"I have an irresistible urge to jump in here and shake my fist at the clouds with all the rest of the grumpy old naysayers. Won't someone think of the children!" Presumably people thought of the children too much, it's why we're so soft as to *check notes* eat more than once a day. | |||
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" I didn't realise conscription would be along ethnic lines. You learn something new every day. It happened in America during the Vietnam War, afro American men were being conscripted by the thousand whereas white college boys were staying in education... eventually, because people were starting to notice along with the murder of MLK, black panther forming and the Mexico Olympics in 68 (fist in the air) .. they had to change the process and came up with a birthday lottery broadcast live on TV to make it look fair... Imagine having your birthday date picked out a bowl to send you to war!! I did my bit in the 90's when the gulf War started and I'd do it again. " I'm sure that the reason that African Americans were more disproportionately used in the forces was not because they were black, but because they were poor. Black African Americans and other ethnic groups are more likely to be poorer than their white counterparts and thus found themselves in that situation by lack of opportunity. This isn't something unique to that time either, you always find people in worse financial positions disproportionately make up a military force. | |||
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"I wonder if our forefathers spoke about their kids generation the way people do in here. Some quite eye opening whataboutery on display. Plato and further back did. These edgy original thinkers are in a long tradition of unoriginality. What's ancient Greek, Roman, Pesian, Aboriginal for 'Tsk! Kids-these days'? "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." That's the passage from Plato, attributed to Socrates. And to think in a few years time they'll be running the country...scary thought What, people in the mid 5th century BCE?
Reading comprehension is helpful
Yep...that was the note Plato passed to Socrates at the end of Geography class 🤣🤣"I can imagine Frankie Howerd, as Lurcio, telling his elders: that he's not a noughty boy, but a traditionalist! Nay,nay and thrice nay, Indeed I am a classical traditionalist . | |||
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"I wonder if our forefathers spoke about their kids generation the way people do in here. Some quite eye opening whataboutery on display. Plato and further back did. These edgy original thinkers are in a long tradition of unoriginality. What's ancient Greek, Roman, Pesian, Aboriginal for 'Tsk! Kids-these days'? "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." That's the passage from Plato, attributed to Socrates. Bloody hell! Not a truer word said! Absolutely spot on! This is in the era where more than one meal a day was regarded as being for pussies and writing was regarded, by some, as weak shit that'd break your mind. Siding with the ancients is risky business 🤣🤣" Unless you were designing military weapons, castle building and drawing maps of said conquests. | |||
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"I wonder if our forefathers spoke about their kids generation the way people do in here. Some quite eye opening whataboutery on display. Plato and further back did. These edgy original thinkers are in a long tradition of unoriginality. What's ancient Greek, Roman, Pesian, Aboriginal for 'Tsk! Kids-these days'? "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." That's the passage from Plato, attributed to Socrates. Bloody hell! Not a truer word said! Absolutely spot on! This is in the era where more than one meal a day was regarded as being for pussies and writing was regarded, by some, as weak shit that'd break your mind. Siding with the ancients is risky business 🤣🤣 Unless you were designing military weapons, castle building and drawing maps of said conquests." I don't think we're talking about the same historical period. | |||
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"My wife grew up under Russian occupation so I have a better idea than most (in this country) how bad it actually is. Anyone that doesn't want to fight for their (and their children's) freedom are welcome to enjoy their new lives under their Soviet or Chinese masters. K. What does she think of the direction this country has been going in? Locking people up for speech and such? " She thinks we in the Uk have an amazing amount of freedom, she also understands that you have to have a responsible approach when shouting your political ideals. We have to abide by the law, otherwise we descend into anarchy, we do however, have a chance to collectively change the law and thankfully, our government - not something that awaits a sizeable portion of Ukraine. | |||
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"I wonder if our forefathers spoke about their kids generation the way people do in here. Some quite eye opening whataboutery on display. Plato and further back did. These edgy original thinkers are in a long tradition of unoriginality. What's ancient Greek, Roman, Pesian, Aboriginal for 'Tsk! Kids-these days'? "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." That's the passage from Plato, attributed to Socrates. And to think in a few years time they'll be running the country...scary thought What, people in the mid 5th century BCE?
Reading comprehension is helpful
Yep...that was the note Plato passed to Socrates at the end of Geography class 🤣🤣
I can imagine Frankie Howerd, as Lurcio, telling his elders: that he's not a noughty boy, but a traditionalist!
Nay,nay and thrice nay, Indeed I am a classical traditionalist ."Infamy, infamy they've all got it infamy | |||
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"I have an irresistible urge to jump in here and shake my fist at the clouds with all the rest of the grumpy old naysayers. Won't someone think of the children! Presumably people thought of the children too much, it's why we're so soft as to *check notes* eat more than once a day." Back in the day you had to eat your own sandals if you wanted more than one meal a day. And you could only eat one of them at a time of course, lest you had nothin for supper later. Of course that's how hopscotch got invented. Now kids these days just don't appreciate having to hop around on one foot what with their fancy 'kicks'. | |||
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" I didn't realise conscription would be along ethnic lines. You learn something new every day. It happened in America during the Vietnam War, afro American men were being conscripted by the thousand whereas white college boys were staying in education... eventually, because people were starting to notice along with the murder of MLK, black panther forming and the Mexico Olympics in 68 (fist in the air) .. they had to change the process and came up with a birthday lottery broadcast live on TV to make it look fair... Imagine having your birthday date picked out a bowl to send you to war!! I did my bit in the 90's when the gulf War started and I'd do it again. I'm sure that the reason that African Americans were more disproportionately used in the forces was not because they were black, but because they were poor. Black African Americans and other ethnic groups are more likely to be poorer than their white counterparts and thus found themselves in that situation by lack of opportunity. This isn't something unique to that time either, you always find people in worse financial positions disproportionately make up a military force." Being poor is exactly why my Grandad joined the British Army, aged 14, in 1945. The War was still on. | |||
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"Lots of interesting opinions.. But you do know we are all talking about a generation that literally bursts into tears when shouted at...99% of them wouldn't survive basic training let alone being shot out....but don't panic people us Gen X would gladly step up and protect. The veterans from the Boer war probably thought the same about the conscripts in 1914, pretty sure we had the same types of talk in South Armagh in the late 70's about the 'kids' back over the water.. But the same kids did their stuff in Iraq, Afghanistan later on.. I hear you.... however the "kids" in Iraq/Afghanistan wasn't conscipts " Fair point.. They still came from their generation and as generations throughout our long military history as a country shows when push comes to shove the right people step up and step forward.. | |||
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"I'm too old unfortunately, but I'm in for a remake of dad's army." Do you think that’s wise sir! 😉 | |||
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). So I am much more in favour of a citizen army model (like in some other nations). Where either through mass voluntary or compulsory uptake citizens conduct a base level of military training rather than conscription into the forces. This would in times of need give us the base manpower to provide territorial defence in the UK, leaving a good proportion of our regular and reserve forces to fight in Europe. Also giving future volunteers into the regular army a leg up when the period of training to the front line maybe shorter than ideal due to opperational need. However it's important that we have enough small arms for the job. Like when Ukraine issued arms to its people, we can do the same if we had the volume of small arms, which I suspect right now maybe a problem. It also asks the question if we adopt this concept is the current service rifle suitable for the job or would a different (maybe off the shelf) system be better? But I think given our geographical considerations and knowledge of Russian capabilities a citizen army is capable of defending our home land. Although I suspect Russia's aim would just be to blockade and isolate us rather than risk invading.
As to if I would join up, I don't see with my background I'd have any other options to. It's not something I could sit out when I know I can do something and the cost of defeat doesn't bare thinking about. But fingers crossed it never comes to that because it would be absolutely horrific and I'd much prefer to live in peace and security with my family.
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"I'm too old unfortunately, but I'm in for a remake of dad's army. Do you think that’s wise sir! 😉" | |||
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"I'm too old unfortunately, but I'm in for a remake of dad's army. Do you think that’s wise sir! 😉" Wilson! | |||
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"I'm too old unfortunately, but I'm in for a remake of dad's army. Do you think that’s wise sir! 😉 Wilson! ""Don't tell him your name Pike" | |||
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"Oh and by the way …. If you have recently left, I think you too will find yourself back in Green pretty damned quickly too! 😉 Ha ha ! There's no chance of that ! Let the young ones do the fighting " I think you will find you remain part of what is now called ‘the Strategic Reserve’. Even if MLD or possibly MND (yes I know what I’m talking about 😉) you may well still end up as an ‘enabler’ or even an updated planned version of what used to be the ‘Home Defence Force’ … the real Dads Army! R 😘 | |||
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"If required, I’ll do my bit. Probably follow in my grandfathers steps and join the Royal Artillery. "Great choice | |||
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"I wonder if our forefathers spoke about their kids generation the way people do in here. Some quite eye opening whataboutery on display. Plato and further back did. These edgy original thinkers are in a long tradition of unoriginality. What's ancient Greek, Roman, Pesian, Aboriginal for 'Tsk! Kids-these days'? "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." That's the passage from Plato, attributed to Socrates. Bloody hell! Not a truer word said! Absolutely spot on! This is in the era where more than one meal a day was regarded as being for pussies and writing was regarded, by some, as weak shit that'd break your mind. Siding with the ancients is risky business 🤣🤣 Unless you were designing military weapons, castle building and drawing maps of said conquests. I don't think we're talking about the same historical period." Plato was born around May 21 in 428 or 427 B.C. The Peloponnesian War between Athens and Sparta and their respective allies came in two stages: from c. 460 to 446 and from 431 to 404 BCE. With battles at home and abroad, the long and complex conflict was damaging to both sides. Sparta, with financial help from Persia, finally won the conflict by destroying the Athenian fleet at Aegospotami in 405 BCE. Someone had to design and build the odd building, temple, docks, ships, military and civil engineering as well as the daggers, shields and armour etc. These weren't just a roman thing. | |||
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"I wonder if our forefathers spoke about their kids generation the way people do in here. Some quite eye opening whataboutery on display. Plato and further back did. These edgy original thinkers are in a long tradition of unoriginality. What's ancient Greek, Roman, Pesian, Aboriginal for 'Tsk! Kids-these days'? "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." That's the passage from Plato, attributed to Socrates. Bloody hell! Not a truer word said! Absolutely spot on! This is in the era where more than one meal a day was regarded as being for pussies and writing was regarded, by some, as weak shit that'd break your mind. Siding with the ancients is risky business 🤣🤣 Unless you were designing military weapons, castle building and drawing maps of said conquests. I don't think we're talking about the same historical period. Plato was born around May 21 in 428 or 427 B.C. The Peloponnesian War between Athens and Sparta and their respective allies came in two stages: from c. 460 to 446 and from 431 to 404 BCE. With battles at home and abroad, the long and complex conflict was damaging to both sides. Sparta, with financial help from Persia, finally won the conflict by destroying the Athenian fleet at Aegospotami in 405 BCE. Someone had to design and build the odd building, temple, docks, ships, military and civil engineering as well as the daggers, shields and armour etc. These weren't just a roman thing." They might of bought them off Amazon | |||
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"I wonder if our forefathers spoke about their kids generation the way people do in here. Some quite eye opening whataboutery on display. Plato and further back did. These edgy original thinkers are in a long tradition of unoriginality. What's ancient Greek, Roman, Pesian, Aboriginal for 'Tsk! Kids-these days'? "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." That's the passage from Plato, attributed to Socrates. Bloody hell! Not a truer word said! Absolutely spot on! This is in the era where more than one meal a day was regarded as being for pussies and writing was regarded, by some, as weak shit that'd break your mind. Siding with the ancients is risky business 🤣🤣 Unless you were designing military weapons, castle building and drawing maps of said conquests. I don't think we're talking about the same historical period. Plato was born around May 21 in 428 or 427 B.C. The Peloponnesian War between Athens and Sparta and their respective allies came in two stages: from c. 460 to 446 and from 431 to 404 BCE. With battles at home and abroad, the long and complex conflict was damaging to both sides. Sparta, with financial help from Persia, finally won the conflict by destroying the Athenian fleet at Aegospotami in 405 BCE. Someone had to design and build the odd building, temple, docks, ships, military and civil engineering as well as the daggers, shields and armour etc. These weren't just a roman thing. They might of bought them off Amazon "To quote the great Homer 'Doh!' | |||
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"I wonder if our forefathers spoke about their kids generation the way people do in here. Some quite eye opening whataboutery on display. Plato and further back did. These edgy original thinkers are in a long tradition of unoriginality. What's ancient Greek, Roman, Pesian, Aboriginal for 'Tsk! Kids-these days'? "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." That's the passage from Plato, attributed to Socrates. Bloody hell! Not a truer word said! Absolutely spot on! This is in the era where more than one meal a day was regarded as being for pussies and writing was regarded, by some, as weak shit that'd break your mind. Siding with the ancients is risky business 🤣🤣 Unless you were designing military weapons, castle building and drawing maps of said conquests. I don't think we're talking about the same historical period. Plato was born around May 21 in 428 or 427 B.C. The Peloponnesian War between Athens and Sparta and their respective allies came in two stages: from c. 460 to 446 and from 431 to 404 BCE. With battles at home and abroad, the long and complex conflict was damaging to both sides. Sparta, with financial help from Persia, finally won the conflict by destroying the Athenian fleet at Aegospotami in 405 BCE. Someone had to design and build the odd building, temple, docks, ships, military and civil engineering as well as the daggers, shields and armour etc. These weren't just a roman thing." Ok, thank you for that elementary summary. What does that have to do with Greek attitudes towards eating, which I was talking about? If memory serves, there's a passage in Herodotus (about the Persian Wars, so a generation earlier than the Peloponnesian wars) that discussed the Persian descent into effeminacy and being servile. It's this that's used to expand upon contemporary views that foreigners, particularly from the east, were weak for using ranged weapons and eating in excess, which Greeks thought was more than once a day. Not "you get to eat more if you're engaged in manual labour including constructing monuments to the spoils of empire or preparing to fight the Peloponnesians". You might think that such labour requires eating more often. However, the Greeks with which people in this thread seem to agree - that kids these days are too soft - would consider that to be the stuff of pussies. (Incidentally, the word Amazon means no breast. The legend goes that there was a tribe of warrior women who - being women, and effeminate - were masters at archery. They cut off a breast to accomplish their archery more effectively) | |||
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"Lots of interesting opinions.. But you do know we are all talking about a generation that literally bursts into tears when shouted at...99% of them wouldn't survive basic training let alone being shot out....but don't panic people us Gen X would gladly step up and protect. The veterans from the Boer war probably thought the same about the conscripts in 1914, pretty sure we had the same types of talk in South Armagh in the late 70's about the 'kids' back over the water.. But the same kids did their stuff in Iraq, Afghanistan later on.. " Agree | |||
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"Lots of talk of bringing this in across Europe to counter Ivan. Who would join and who would not ?." So you’re asking that if the government made it mandatory for people to do military service would anyone rather go to prison instead. Cos that’s what conscription is, it’s not a choice. That’s kind of the point of it. | |||
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"Also X military. There was a time when I relished the idea of bringing back national service. However times have changed to the degree where I wouldn’t want any of these namby pambys conscripted to defend this country. They would be more likely to simply bend over/ assume the position and part the cheeks . " In fairness a lot of the Namby pambys in Ukraine are building drones, repurposing weapons, designing electronic warfare equipment, repairing and servicing vehicles and aircraft, providing logistics, medical, psyops… not all conscription is about sending people to the front line with a weapon or providing artillery/ manpad support. It’s about getting people with skills into the right roles. I do suspect that there would be a mass exodus of this country by those who currently call it home should there be a conscription.… | |||
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"National service isn’t forcing people into the military. It’s a term of civil service for your nation. A branch of this is the armed forces, but even so you aren’t given the basic training as you would receive in the military. National service could be working in hospitals, the port authority, public transport, highways,etc. However, the opportunity of working with various platforms such as aircraft, naval vessels, or land based equipment is rather exciting. Skills such as engineering, comms, logistics, linguistics, meteorology, etc. are all things that individuals can get exposure to that they normally wouldn’t without degree level education and where apprenticeships are few and far between. It’s always worth considering the depth and breadth without shunning it as an opportunity to force children onto the frontline with air rifles. Conflict and retaliation through acts of violence towards another human being should be an absolute last option. As a species we are too quick to anger and action. " Yeah I can see it as possibly a big positive in a high trust society, would be very difficult to get people on board with how this country has been run over the last few decades! | |||
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"National service isn’t forcing people into the military. It’s a term of civil service for your nation. A branch of this is the armed forces, but even so you aren’t given the basic training as you would receive in the military. National service could be working in hospitals, the port authority, public transport, highways,etc. However, the opportunity of working with various platforms such as aircraft, naval vessels, or land based equipment is rather exciting. Skills such as engineering, comms, logistics, linguistics, meteorology, etc. are all things that individuals can get exposure to that they normally wouldn’t without degree level education and where apprenticeships are few and far between. It’s always worth considering the depth and breadth without shunning it as an opportunity to force children onto the frontline with air rifles. Conflict and retaliation through acts of violence towards another human being should be an absolute last option. As a species we are too quick to anger and action. " This. Thank you. A personal reflection: all these people slamming the national service are behaving like the snowflakes they claim are the cause of all issues in society. | |||
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"National service isn’t forcing people into the military. It’s a term of civil service for your nation. A branch of this is the armed forces, but even so you aren’t given the basic training as you would receive in the military. National service could be working in hospitals, the port authority, public transport, highways,etc. However, the opportunity of working with various platforms such as aircraft, naval vessels, or land based equipment is rather exciting. Skills such as engineering, comms, logistics, linguistics, meteorology, etc. are all things that individuals can get exposure to that they normally wouldn’t without degree level education and where apprenticeships are few and far between. It’s always worth considering the depth and breadth without shunning it as an opportunity to force children onto the frontline with air rifles. Conflict and retaliation through acts of violence towards another human being should be an absolute last option. As a species we are too quick to anger and action. " Agree.. In France an 18 yr old can choose the military or the fire service, whilst there might be other options I'm not sure but the ethos of public service isn't all doom and gloom and for some in any society it might be preferable and more fulfilling than a zero hours contract for instance.. | |||
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"Lots of talk of bringing this in across Europe to counter Ivan. Who would join and who would not ?. As an ex squadie I would have in the past, now n chance in hell would I fight for our government! You don’t fight for your government. You fight for your country." Correct. | |||
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"Ex military and there is not cat in hells chance I'd fight for this country. It's lost now. Call up the left wing nuts and liberals. All this country has done is rip me off to give to others." You’re right. The Tories were so much better at screwing the country up for 15 years than Labour have been, let’s bring them back. | |||
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"Lots of talk of bringing this in across Europe to counter Ivan. Who would join and who would not ?." I don't think you have a choice. If you're of a certain age you're in. Britain had National Service after the second World War, so it's not a new idea. Although I've yet to see it mentioned by any of the main parties. I can't see Nigels Tik Tok army been to keen on it. | |||
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"As an ex squaddie of very nearly 60 years of age, I may not be as fast. I may not be able to hoof it as far with a bergen, but I can still nail a falling plate at 1000 yards 4 x out of 5. I'm a lot sneakier and have more patience. I'd volunteer if they'd let me, but not for the government. For my country...." They don’t like it up em … they do not like it up em!! 🫡 | |||
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"As an ex squaddie of very nearly 60 years of age, I may not be as fast. I may not be able to hoof it as far with a bergen, but I can still nail a falling plate at 1000 yards 4 x out of 5. I'm a lot sneakier and have more patience. I'd volunteer if they'd let me, but not for the government. For my country...." Well done Sir I applaud you | |||
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"There's some real cowards on here." Would I fight alongside my kids because of a politician and their ego, falsified intel about fake WMDs, seeking regime change... Not a fucking chance. If I was a Ukrainian defending my country against Russian invaders? I’d take up arms. I’ll decide what me and my kids will fight for. That’s not cowardice. | |||
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"Make love not war." Make tea not love... Monty Python | |||
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"With the advent of these new drones being controlled by PlayStation style controllers from miles away, our younger generation should be absolutely deadly ! With my skills my drone would just be randomly ducking, jumping, and inevitably heading straight back at me.... " 🤣🤣 | |||
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"I'm to owd to be called up for the front line, I'd be in the home guard though, dad's army protecting the village pub. "Same... don't panic! | |||
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