FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Should they ban begging?
Should they ban begging?
Jump to: Newest in thread
 |
By *hagTonight OP Man 9 weeks ago
From the land of haribos. |
I watched an interesting program about weather or not they should ban begging, they mentioned many things about it like that you shouldnt give money to a beggar because you dont really know where the money goes to and that there could be things behind it and dark motives that you dont see where the money might go to like people smuggling, drugs and other things like criminality.
I am on both sides to this, both yes and no, but more so on the no side, because it is true that you dont know where the money goes to, but then on the other hand if you get homeless you wish people would give you money for the right reason too survive.
I also want to add that banning begging is a complex issue with strong arguments on both sides, whilst both side have right in some way.
What is your view about it, should they ban begging, what side are you on, do you support it too?  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
It's a bit of an invasion of civil liberties. People should be free to ask and people should be free to give or not.
The problem of homelessness should be addressed. Stopping somebody from begging is an attempt to sweep it under the carpet and solves nothing. If somebody has no option but to beg, what are they supposed to do do if the option is taken away from them? Are they just supposed to go away and starve?
If there was a robust alternative that was easily accessible and widely known then maybe this would be an option, but I don't see that's what we have right now. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
It's a bit chicken and egg as to whether their mental illness or drugs came first or whether their grief, family break up , loss of employment , unable to find financial support , escape from a war zone or debilitating illness came first but hey ........ let's keep referring to them all as druggies then we can go to vermin and then to extermination. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Couldn’t care less if they spend it on drugs, if I’m living on the street I’d also want to be high as much as possible
That's why they end up on the streets in the first place "
There's a lot more to homelessness than just alcohol and Dr*g addiction |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Why should that form of obtaining money be banned ?
At least they ask which is more than HMRC does or others like the council, water rates, manufacturers , food producers..... everyone has to overcharge or they can't make profit and you have no say in it. I'd prefer to stop this theft before I even thought about those on the street asking for support.
Do I believe they are all genuine? No I don't but morally I feel it's best for me to give and be taken in than to not give and allow a fellow human to starve or die and if they are legitimate or not legitimate the freezing cold temperatures I see them sitting out in in town makes me think they've earned every fucking penny. You'd pay to see David Blaine freeze his bollocks off in the ice but you won't give a quid to a person in need.
The number of people in town has grown so huge that it's impossible to shop without being asked at least 6 times and actually seeing them is even more frequent.
They are in the near green belt now and outside almost every train stop from the city to the suburbs.
To me it's a sign of how shite society is not how shite they are.
I know we'd all like out streets to be nice and sanitary and keep the poor people hidden and that people can feel very holier than thou when they give at the food bank , just as long as they haven't got to look at the 'beggars'
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
The issue i have is you can't tell if that person is a genuine homeless person, I have no issues in helping someone who is hungry and needs help. What i object to is Joe Bloggs who has a better house than mine pretending he/she is homeless and making a whacking salary.
I also don't like that the ones in Aberdeen city centre sit at the cash machine 😕 |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The issue i have is you can't tell if that person is a genuine homeless person, I have no issues in helping someone who is hungry and needs help. What i object to is Joe Bloggs who has a better house than mine pretending he/she is homeless and making a whacking salary.
I also don't like that the ones in Aberdeen city centre sit at the cash machine 😕 "
I understand that but logically, how many of the human beings you see out on the streets are making this 'whacking salary' ?
What is a whacking salary ? Shall we say 50k ? a grand a week ? £ 140 per day ? 7 days a week......
Is that possible while most of the country is less well off than before ?
If I was guaranteed half of that I'd be out there with them ........ well on as nice sunny day maybe.
I'll give and take my chances that someone who got my quid is in Barbados now and the 'real' one got a bag of chips. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
There's a huge problem in Hastings and many areas where landlords find using their properties as air BnB is more profitable. People are evicted with no chance of finding alternative, affordable housing. The council has limited accomodation available and people are put in temporary bed and breakfast accomodation from which they have to move regularly.
Rents in this area are scandalously high as it is. If you need to find £1k plus before you've even considered other expenses it's no wonder people are on the streets |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *vaRoseWoman 9 weeks ago
Ankh-Morpork |
No
And I don’t subscribe to the whole deserving poor bullshit… which one is genuine or not. I don’t care if they’re genuine or not. I don’t judge if they use the money for things other than food and keeping warm. They are people too and can choose what do with the money, for many it’s the only choices they have.
Let’s not demonise the people who have little or nothing |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Begging in the UK is technically illegal under the Vagrancy Act 1824, which prohibits soliciting money or goods in public places. However, enforcement varies, and authorities often focus on addressing aggressive or nuisance begging rather than penalizing individuals in need.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Begging in the UK is technically illegal under the Vagrancy Act 1824, which prohibits soliciting money or goods in public places. However, enforcement varies, and authorities often focus on addressing aggressive or nuisance begging rather than penalizing individuals in need.
"
Haha, should have read this before posting |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Also I think we give money to lots of businesses and don't really know where it's going. We usually get material goods or services in exchange of course but giving charitably usually makes people feel good so they get something out of it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Begging in the UK is technically illegal under the Vagrancy Act 1824, which prohibits soliciting money or goods in public places. However, enforcement varies, and authorities often focus on addressing aggressive or nuisance begging rather than penalizing individuals in need.
Haha, should have read this before posting "
It has been under repeal since 2022. It is still in force though as nothing as yet has come of the repeal.
I wonder if people took put the same judgement on the thousands of men who were homeless and on the streets after ww2..... ? No family left, no home, some with pstd and forced to ask for help after serving their country. I wonder if we thought less of them. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Begging in the UK is technically illegal under the Vagrancy Act 1824, which prohibits soliciting money or goods in public places. However, enforcement varies, and authorities often focus on addressing aggressive or nuisance begging rather than penalizing individuals in need.
Haha, should have read this before posting
It has been under repeal since 2022. It is still in force though as nothing as yet has come of the repeal.
I wonder if people took put the same judgement on the thousands of men who were homeless and on the streets after ww2..... ? No family left, no home, some with pstd and forced to ask for help after serving their country. I wonder if we thought less of them."
Probably. Compassion and empathy for poor, destitute and homeless people has always been in short supply. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) 9 weeks ago
|
There's a big pool of people that I could call upon if I lost everything and had to build myself up from scratch.
Probably about 14 or 15 people when i think about it..
(They wouldn't charge me for staying in their spare room or sleeping on their living room floor either.)
It's just luck for me that I wouldn't find myself in this position.
Lots of people don't have this, so no, I wouldn't ban it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I’ve seen a documentary in the past where it showed organised gangs sending people out into the public to beg and then taking most of the money off them.
Also ordinary people making a nice living, not homeless or destitute, just very good at what they do.
But I don’t think it should be banned. As has been said, there’s no obligation to give. I personally give to the charities that support them as I know the money isn’t going to gangs |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Couldn’t care less if they spend it on drugs, if I’m living on the street I’d also want to be high as much as possible
That's why they end up on the streets in the first place "
I can tell you've never worked with or talked to homeless people. They are generally driven from their houses by abusive relationships, everything else is just an attempt to deal with it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
The reason for banning it is because in many cases they are not actual homeless people but actually part of large criminal gang's, organised begging is a massive money maker particularly if they target the right areas.
In London for example Piccadilly line on the tube there used to be gangs of children with laminated cards claiming to be orphans.
I'm too cynical about it now and know too many stories about false beggars.
This country has gotten itself into a real mess with homelessness and people scamming.
How do you tell them apart??
It's impossible |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The issue i have is you can't tell if that person is a genuine homeless person, I have no issues in helping someone who is hungry and needs help. What i object to is Joe Bloggs who has a better house than mine pretending he/she is homeless and making a whacking salary.
I also don't like that the ones in Aberdeen city centre sit at the cash machine 😕
I understand that but logically, how many of the human beings you see out on the streets are making this 'whacking salary' ?
What is a whacking salary ? Shall we say 50k ? a grand a week ? £ 140 per day ? 7 days a week......
Is that possible while most of the country is less well off than before ?
If I was guaranteed half of that I'd be out there with them ........ well on as nice sunny day maybe.
I'll give and take my chances that someone who got my quid is in Barbados now and the 'real' one got a bag of chips."
Funnily enough I've spoken to a few homeless people in Aberdeen, as I myself am happy to buy food and sit and chat to them. One was a teacher and she herself had been homeless for several years due to a divorce etc. She told me many weren't genuine and there was one in particular who wasn't homeless and had a home and made a good living begging. I work a lot of hours for my salary 60+ a week and I don't get to go to Barbados.
It's difficult for people who work to make ends meet.
Even if it was £140 a day that person made from begging, thats more than someone who works could earn a day.
I'd much rather buy someone food and know they've eaten and spend time talking to them than chuck them a pound and say crack on. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I’ve seen a documentary in the past where it showed organised gangs sending people out into the public to beg and then taking most of the money off them.
Also ordinary people making a nice living, not homeless or destitute, just very good at what they do.
But I don’t think it should be banned. As has been said, there’s no obligation to give. I personally give to the charities that support them as I know the money isn’t going to gangs "
There could be a comparison drawn between organised gangs taking most of the money and registered charities taking large proportions of the money on CEO salaries etc, etc, but I get the point you are making. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Most are from broken families and some with financial dificulties, drink, drugs, sexual abuse ect.
They need support not persecution they are human beings like the rest of us.
I detest people who give them a hard time who mock and urinate on them not knowing their full story so if I have loose change I give. Although I do prefer if they have it they use it responsibly. I tell them that too. So no I don't think they should ban begging. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The reason for banning it is because in many cases they are not actual homeless people but actually part of large criminal gang's, organised begging is a massive money maker particularly if they target the right areas.
In London for example Piccadilly line on the tube there used to be gangs of children with laminated cards claiming to be orphans.
I'm too cynical about it now and know too many stories about false beggars.
This country has gotten itself into a real mess with homelessness and people scamming.
How do you tell them apart??
It's impossible "
Someone who has been on the streets for a month looks very different to someone who sleeps in a bed every night.
I agree that we've got ourselves into a mess with homelessness it's a very real problem.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *hagTonight OP Man 9 weeks ago
From the land of haribos. |
"It's a bit of an invasion of civil liberties. People should be free to ask and people should be free to give or not.
The problem of homelessness should be addressed. Stopping somebody from begging is an attempt to sweep it under the carpet and solves nothing. If somebody has no option but to beg, what are they supposed to do do if the option is taken away from them? Are they just supposed to go away and starve?
If there was a robust alternative that was easily accessible and widely known then maybe this would be an option, but I don't see that's what we have right now. "
Hi _partharmony, yes, you are right there, they should be free to ask and people should be free to give or not, yes, if they have no choice then they have no option than to do it too |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I’ve seen a documentary in the past where it showed organised gangs sending people out into the public to beg and then taking most of the money off them.
Also ordinary people making a nice living, not homeless or destitute, just very good at what they do.
But I don’t think it should be banned. As has been said, there’s no obligation to give. I personally give to the charities that support them as I know the money isn’t going to gangs
There could be a comparison drawn between organised gangs taking most of the money and registered charities taking large proportions of the money on CEO salaries etc, etc, but I get the point you are making. "
This argument about charity CEOs getting massive salaries is a bit of a red herring. The numbers are accurate, but what they don’t report is how much revenue they have generated through their social and business networks.
Do you think the dragons on dragons den hang out with people on universal credit? Or other multi millionaires? People tend to spend most of their free time with people similar to themselves.
I’m in the process of getting sponsorships for a charity event. The biggest single donation was for £25. So me offering to replace a guy on £250k for £25k is counter productive. If I was Peter Jones I’d be getting £1k donations from my friends because to his friends, that’s the same as £10 to mine |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I only give to those selling the big issue
They have been vetted
They are doing something to help themselves and others
But I’ve never taken the magazine"
To be clear Big Issue vendors aren't begging.
Why don't you take the magazine, it sometimes has some interesting stuff in it. I haven't seen a Big Issue seller round here for ages. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
there’s a complicated one in our culture its not really begging for food like in other countries. It’s all intertwined with mental health, homelessness, addiction and under funding in this idealistic socialist model where is the government’s responsibility to take care of people.
I believe in community, charity, generosity and sacrificial giving & where you see that in action people are generally taken care of & there’s no need to beg.
So maybe with the current political set up in UK, it should be banned, it hides the true problems in the socialist model
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The reason for banning it is because in many cases they are not actual homeless people but actually part of large criminal gang's, organised begging is a massive money maker particularly if they target the right areas.
In London for example Piccadilly line on the tube there used to be gangs of children with laminated cards claiming to be orphans.
I'm too cynical about it now and know too many stories about false beggars.
This country has gotten itself into a real mess with homelessness and people scamming.
How do you tell them apart??
It's impossible
Someone who has been on the streets for a month looks very different to someone who sleeps in a bed every night.
"
No, they are very clever at looking unwashed. Seen too many con artists working in London fleecing the tourists fresh off the plane.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The reason for banning it is because in many cases they are not actual homeless people but actually part of large criminal gang's, organised begging is a massive money maker particularly if they target the right areas.
In London for example Piccadilly line on the tube there used to be gangs of children with laminated cards claiming to be orphans.
I'm too cynical about it now and know too many stories about false beggars.
This country has gotten itself into a real mess with homelessness and people scamming.
How do you tell them apart??
It's impossible
Someone who has been on the streets for a month looks very different to someone who sleeps in a bed every night.
No, they are very clever at looking unwashed. Seen too many con artists working in London fleecing the tourists fresh off the plane.
"
Ah that London.
Round here you can tell by the texture of someone's skin and hair whether they're genuinely on the streets but I do don't have any experience of London it's probably a whole different ball game.
I do have experience of walking through the streets on Chennai and I'm not exagerating when I say I needed protection. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *hagTonight OP Man 9 weeks ago
From the land of haribos. |
"I'm not in favour of a ban i don't think it would help well certainly not the homeless anyway.
"
Hi wanderer, yes, you are right there. I am also not in favour of a ban, it wouldnt help the homeless |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I’ve seen a documentary in the past where it showed organised gangs sending people out into the public to beg and then taking most of the money off them.
Also ordinary people making a nice living, not homeless or destitute, just very good at what they do.
But I don’t think it should be banned. As has been said, there’s no obligation to give. I personally give to the charities that support them as I know the money isn’t going to gangs
There could be a comparison drawn between organised gangs taking most of the money and registered charities taking large proportions of the money on CEO salaries etc, etc, but I get the point you are making.
This argument about charity CEOs getting massive salaries is a bit of a red herring. The numbers are accurate, but what they don’t report is how much revenue they have generated through their social and business networks.
Do you think the dragons on dragons den hang out with people on universal credit? Or other multi millionaires? People tend to spend most of their free time with people similar to themselves.
I’m in the process of getting sponsorships for a charity event. The biggest single donation was for £25. So me offering to replace a guy on £250k for £25k is counter productive. If I was Peter Jones I’d be getting £1k donations from my friends because to his friends, that’s the same as £10 to mine "
Aren’t the type of people you mention more likely to be patrons rather than salaried CEO’s, which is a total win as they bring the money from their wealthy chums without drawing anything from the charity. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *hagTonight OP Man 9 weeks ago
From the land of haribos. |
"Why should that form of obtaining money be banned ?
At least they ask which is more than HMRC does or others like the council, water rates, manufacturers , food producers..... everyone has to overcharge or they can't make profit and you have no say in it. I'd prefer to stop this theft before I even thought about those on the street asking for support.
Do I believe they are all genuine? No I don't but morally I feel it's best for me to give and be taken in than to not give and allow a fellow human to starve or die and if they are legitimate or not legitimate the freezing cold temperatures I see them sitting out in in town makes me think they've earned every fucking penny. You'd pay to see David Blaine freeze his bollocks off in the ice but you won't give a quid to a person in need.
The number of people in town has grown so huge that it's impossible to shop without being asked at least 6 times and actually seeing them is even more frequent.
They are in the near green belt now and outside almost every train stop from the city to the suburbs.
To me it's a sign of how shite society is not how shite they are.
I know we'd all like out streets to be nice and sanitary and keep the poor people hidden and that people can feel very holier than thou when they give at the food bank , just as long as they haven't got to look at the 'beggars'
"
Hi, yes, you are right there, this form of obtaining money shouldnt be banned as it is another way to survive on |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Couldn’t care less if they spend it on drugs, if I’m living on the street I’d also want to be high as much as possible
That's why they end up on the streets in the first place "
Awful opinion, there's a multitude of reasons people become homeless |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Just a solid no ban on begging from me.
I can give many moral reasons for that, but I think the reality would be that criminalising desperation would be an absolute disaster; cost the taxpayer even more than providing support for homeless people and the causes of homelessness. And probably increase criminality.
So I don't even think it's even worth considering morally. You may as well just say kill all the poor and be done with it. At least that would make sense on a practical level. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ndycoinsMan 9 weeks ago
Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton, |
Ban the fake beggars.Too many in a nearby town.They take from the genuine homeless and make the genuine look fake.They are claiming benefits too.It has reached the earning proportions of the Sherlock Holmes story 'The man with the twisted lip'. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I wouldn't ban begging but id definitely make it law that it can only bed in a curtain place especially as some have said sat at cash machine "
Like John Lewis or Dunelm ..... specially round the back.
Good idea actually. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) 9 weeks ago
|
You can usually tell the genuine homeless. In our town they are mostly sitting by their sleeping bags and meagre positions. They look a little unkempt too. I would give one something to eat or drink and possibly £1 or so.
The ones with nicely written signs are usually fake and from organised gangs, those need banning. People in my town gave a lot of food ect to one of those but ignore our genuine street sleepers . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I don't have much sympathy for them.
Mrs does have a job helping them but I provide for my own family and go to work and give money to church charities.
These people messed around in school, didn't get up for work and fell out with their own families.
Mrs does alot at work helping people so I get annoyed when we are out in town and they approach us.
People do need help but the genuine ones go to charities for it instead of bothering me.
It's hard enough for regular working people providing for our own families.
If they failed to grow up for 35 years then quit and smoke spice it's their problem.
You have to remember what these people were like in school and early adulthood. While you suffered adult life they were getting high on borrowed money.
I don't have the resources for them and it's survival of the fittest.
The legit ones do get looked after but the ones who charities and housing get rid of end up begging.
Times are getting hard and people look down on me for not having a lambo so unless I get a lambo and a 5 bedroom house I'm not giving them money anymore.
They can apply to work as cleaners, bin men or whatever with a natural west banking address but they would rather smoke spice. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
OP, This is asking the wrong questions
The 1824 vagrancy act has never been repealed which is why Police can still move rough sleepers and beggars on
The question is why dies this country still have homeless people and not support those on the street. Over the past few years It has clearly shown it can find accommodation for a massive number if people. As much as I dislike Andy Burnham. He has provided shelter for many of Manchester‘s homeless. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
true!
