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STI's amongst Swingers
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A Dutch study found that swingers and particularly the over 45 demographic had a similar and sometimes higher risk profile for STI's than Men who have sex with Men.
I thought this was interesting because a lot of people will say that they won't sleep with bi men because of the STI risk where this study shows that this risk increase isn't reflected in the data. The risk is more or less the same. |
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So is age a factor in sti transmission? There are some obvious assumptions as to why that could be. But again, hilarious considering older people yapping on about immaturity of young people and them knowing better. 🤣 |
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"I was shocked to learn that older swingers had a higher risk of transmitting STIs than Dutch Sex workers."
not that shocking tbf.
Older people tend to have poorer sexual health. Test less. They also think pregnancy is the main risk of sex in my experience |
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"I was shocked to learn that older swingers had a higher risk of transmitting STIs than Dutch Sex workers."
I’m not surprised by that at all. Sex workers get branded as sti factories but all the ones I know are far more sensible and take their sexual health far more seriously then regular shaggers  |
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"So is age a factor in sti transmission? There are some obvious assumptions as to why that could be. But again, hilarious considering older people yapping on about immaturity of young people and them knowing better. 🤣"
According to that study yes. Over half of reported STI's in a given period were from swingers over the age of 45.
Apparently condom use is going down from 70% to 59%
And the highest risk of transmission was recorded in female swingers 45+ |
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"A Dutch study found that swingers and particularly the over 45 demographic had a similar and sometimes higher risk profile for STI's than Men who have sex with Men.
I thought this was interesting because a lot of people will say that they won't sleep with bi men because of the STI risk where this study shows that this risk increase isn't reflected in the data. The risk is more or less the same."
All the messages I’ve received over the years offering of bareback sex over the years have been from this very demographic… |
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"This is... not a shock. In the slightest.
"
For many people it's not a shock but the idea that bi men are high risk is very persistent on Fab.
I wonder if having more information would change anyone's minds. |
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"This is... not a shock. In the slightest.
For many people it's not a shock but the idea that bi men are high risk is very persistent on Fab.
I wonder if having more information would change anyone's minds."
Honestly, when the thread topics come up people don’t listen to facts or reason. They use that excuse to hide their issue with men having sex with other men. |
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"This is... not a shock. In the slightest.
For many people it's not a shock but the idea that bi men are high risk is very persistent on Fab.
I wonder if having more information would change anyone's minds.
Honestly, when the thread topics come up people don’t listen to facts or reason. They use that excuse to hide their issue with men having sex with other men. "
Yeah, I think it’s that way around. The prejudice comes first; the reasoning comes later. |
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By *AYENCouple 3 weeks ago
Lincolnshire |
"A Dutch study found that swingers and particularly the over 45 demographic had a similar and sometimes higher risk profile for STI's than Men who have sex with Men.
I thought this was interesting because a lot of people will say that they won't sleep with bi men because of the STI risk where this study shows that this risk increase isn't reflected in the data. The risk is more or less the same."
It's very clear that a lot of men that have sex with other men are in denial, so I don't think the statistics are necessarily right - equally the statistics aren't necessarily wrong.
Are men that enjoy gay sex more active than those that only enjoy hetro sex?
Going by my observations I would say they are - which might lead to higher infection rate - personally I take each person as an individual and come to my own conclusions - but I certainly wouldn't trust statistics. K. |
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"This is... not a shock. In the slightest.
For many people it's not a shock but the idea that bi men are high risk is very persistent on Fab.
I wonder if having more information would change anyone's minds.
Honestly, when the thread topics come up people don’t listen to facts or reason. They use that excuse to hide their issue with men having sex with other men. "
Facts are often seen as secondary to opinions on here |
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By *AYENCouple 3 weeks ago
Lincolnshire |
"This is... not a shock. In the slightest.
For many people it's not a shock but the idea that bi men are high risk is very persistent on Fab.
I wonder if having more information would change anyone's minds.
Honestly, when the thread topics come up people don’t listen to facts or reason. They use that excuse to hide their issue with men having sex with other men.
Yeah, I think it’s that way around. The prejudice comes first; the reasoning comes later."
I rarely see prejudice against bi men, I see plenty of homophobia though - mostly from those men that have sex with other men but refuse to accept they are gay. People need to learn to accept themselves first, others will follow. K. |
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By *eliWoman 3 weeks ago
. |
"This is... not a shock. In the slightest.
For many people it's not a shock but the idea that bi men are high risk is very persistent on Fab.
I wonder if having more information would change anyone's minds."
No, it wouldn't. Well, it's unlikely to. Some ideas are very entrenched and a thread on the forums won't change that sadly. The best approach is probably to take everyone as high risk and decide what you are and aren't comfortable with. |
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"A Dutch study found that swingers and particularly the over 45 demographic had a similar and sometimes higher risk profile for STI's than Men who have sex with Men.
I thought this was interesting because a lot of people will say that they won't sleep with bi men because of the STI risk where this study shows that this risk increase isn't reflected in the data. The risk is more or less the same.
It's very clear that a lot of men that have sex with other men are in denial, so I don't think the statistics are necessarily right - equally the statistics aren't necessarily wrong.
Are men that enjoy gay sex more active than those that only enjoy hetro sex?
Going by my observations I would say they are - which might lead to higher infection rate - personally I take each person as an individual and come to my own conclusions - but I certainly wouldn't trust statistics. K."
The data would suggest you are incorrect in your belief.
I do think it's interesting that people would prefer to rely on anecdotal assumptions rather that data over a decade.
Most European countries track STI's pretty well so it's not just a case of Statistics Bad |
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Not sure if read same article. But one I read was saying increase in STI’s among say more mature people. They had been asked why not using protection . Most said same thing. Female due to age . Very unlikely to conceive. So bareback sex. Could say not take risk when younger. Forgetting about STI’s . ? |
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"A Dutch study found that swingers and particularly the over 45 demographic had a similar and sometimes higher risk profile for STI's than Men who have sex with Men.
I thought this was interesting because a lot of people will say that they won't sleep with bi men because of the STI risk where this study shows that this risk increase isn't reflected in the data. The risk is more or less the same.
It's very clear that a lot of men that have sex with other men are in denial, so I don't think the statistics are necessarily right - equally the statistics aren't necessarily wrong.
Are men that enjoy gay sex more active than those that only enjoy hetro sex?
Going by my observations I would say they are - which might lead to higher infection rate - personally I take each person as an individual and come to my own conclusions - but I certainly wouldn't trust statistics. K."
*presented with statistics*
‘Going by my observations these statistics are wrong’ |
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"Not sure if read same article. But one I read was saying increase in STI’s among say more mature people. They had been asked why not using protection . Most said same thing. Female due to age . Very unlikely to conceive. So bareback sex. Could say not take risk when younger. Forgetting about STI’s . ? "
I looked up a number of studies that took place in different European countries. |
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Warning - Data.
Studies show a good chunk of swingers (25-43%) have reported an STI diagnosis at some point. Between 2011 and 2018, self-reported STI diagnoses among Dutch swingers increased from 23% to 30%. This unfortunately lines up with a noticeable drop in condom use during that same period (e.g., vaginal sex condom use went from 73% down to 59%).
* Increasing age is consistently linked to elevated STI risk within the swinging community.
* For swingers aged 45 and older, about 13.7% were found to have an STI. More than half (55%) of all STI diagnoses in people over 45 in one study were made in swingers, compared to about a third (31%) in gay men of the same age. Older women swingers, in particular, seem to have some of the highest STI rates.
* Research suggests that "being single" is independently associated with increased sexual risk behavior within the swinging community.
* Approximately 10% of swingers (a category that includes both partnered and single individuals) also report having various "loose sex partners," which can further increase exposure.
* Overall, the swinging community's STI risks are often comparable to, or even higher than, those in other well-recognized high-risk groups, such as young heterosexuals and men who have sex with men (MSM).
* A Dutch study found combined Chlamydia and Gonorrhea rates of about 10.4% for swingers, 10.1% for heterosexuals (non-swingers), and 14.2% for MSM. Interestingly, female sex worker in the same study had a lower rate of just under 5%, suggesting that professional safe sex practices and regular testing can be highly effective at reducing STI transmission.
* While STI rates among swingers have been increasing, some other high-risk groups, like MSM, have seen encouraging decreases in certain STIs recently (e.g., P&S Syphilis cases among MSM decreased by 13.4% from 2022 to 2023). This suggests that while both are high-risk, their approaches to prevention might differ. |
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"Not sure if read same article. But one I read was saying increase in STI’s among say more mature people. They had been asked why not using protection . Most said same thing. Female due to age . Very unlikely to conceive. So bareback sex. Could say not take risk when younger. Forgetting about STI’s . ? "
It's mad considering this age group, were bombarded with the scary HIV/AIDS adverts in the 80's. You'd think they'd know better |
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"This is... not a shock. In the slightest.
For many people it's not a shock but the idea that bi men are high risk is very persistent on Fab.
I wonder if having more information would change anyone's minds."
Information is great, however facts and statistics don’t carry much weight with a fairly broad demographic.
People will lean into a prejudice no matter the facts |
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"Not sure if read same article. But one I read was saying increase in STI’s among say more mature people. They had been asked why not using protection . Most said same thing. Female due to age . Very unlikely to conceive. So bareback sex. Could say not take risk when younger. Forgetting about STI’s . ?
It's mad considering this age group, were bombarded with the scary HIV/AIDS adverts in the 80's. You'd think they'd know better "
But that was the gay plague, not straight people |
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By *_Mia_XTV/TS 3 weeks ago
Ilkeston |
"I’m absolutely shocked to learn of this biphobia in the swinging community. SHOCKED.
Tbf it’s straight up homophobia. Excuse the use of straight🤣"
Literally the amount of biphobia and homophobia generally in the scene is crazy |
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"Not sure if read same article. But one I read was saying increase in STI’s among say more mature people. They had been asked why not using protection . Most said same thing. Female due to age . Very unlikely to conceive. So bareback sex. Could say not take risk when younger. Forgetting about STI’s . ?
It's mad considering this age group, were bombarded with the scary HIV/AIDS adverts in the 80's. You'd think they'd know better
But that was the gay plague, not straight people "
True, that's a good point. Do believe there's a general ignorance about STI testing amongst people my age, they weren't aware you can do it via the post. So actually I think for them it's the stigma of being caught at the clinic having tests puts some off. Though doesn't explain why they aren't playing safe. |
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"A Dutch study found that swingers and particularly the over 45 demographic had a similar and sometimes higher risk profile for STI's than Men who have sex with Men.
I thought this was interesting because a lot of people will say that they won't sleep with bi men because of the STI risk where this study shows that this risk increase isn't reflected in the data. The risk is more or less the same."
So both groups are high risk. |
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"A Dutch study found that swingers and particularly the over 45 demographic had a similar and sometimes higher risk profile for STI's than Men who have sex with Men.
I thought this was interesting because a lot of people will say that they won't sleep with bi men because of the STI risk where this study shows that this risk increase isn't reflected in the data. The risk is more or less the same.
So both groups are high risk."
Yes. That’s the point |
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"A Dutch study found that swingers and particularly the over 45 demographic had a similar and sometimes higher risk profile for STI's than Men who have sex with Men.
I thought this was interesting because a lot of people will say that they won't sleep with bi men because of the STI risk where this study shows that this risk increase isn't reflected in the data. The risk is more or less the same."
So in Denmark when people take an STD test they tick a box that declares if they are swingers.
Tbh I would have thought those in the swinging community were more aware of sexual health and testing than the general population, also are swingers more promiscuous than singles ?
You should post a link to this Danish article/Study as pretty much every English speaking government health website site HSE/NHS/CDC state on their websites that STD rates are considerably higher amongst men who practice sex with other men.
I don't think the NHS or HSE break it down to the lifestyle they just compare rates amongst people who only have hetrosexual sex vs those that have homosexual sex. Just for the record none of these government agencies are homophobic they simply publish this information to education people. |
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"A Dutch study found that swingers and particularly the over 45 demographic had a similar and sometimes higher risk profile for STI's than Men who have sex with Men.
I thought this was interesting because a lot of people will say that they won't sleep with bi men because of the STI risk where this study shows that this risk increase isn't reflected in the data. The risk is more or less the same.
So both groups are high risk.
Yes. That’s the point "
But the OP said this;
'For many people it's not a shock but the idea that bi men are high risk is very persistent on Fab.'
The study (which is 15 years old btw) clearly says that on average men who have sex with other men are a higher risk group, along with older swingers, again on average.
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"A Dutch study found that swingers and particularly the over 45 demographic had a similar and sometimes higher risk profile for STI's than Men who have sex with Men.
I thought this was interesting because a lot of people will say that they won't sleep with bi men because of the STI risk where this study shows that this risk increase isn't reflected in the data. The risk is more or less the same.
So both groups are high risk.
Yes. That’s the point
But the OP said this;
'For many people it's not a shock but the idea that bi men are high risk is very persistent on Fab.'
The study (which is 15 years old btw) clearly says that on average men who have sex with other men are a higher risk group, along with older swingers, again on average.
"
Everyone that leads a promiscuous lifestyle is higher risk |
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We are all responsible for our own sexual health and to a degree that of the people we meet or might meet.
The level of risk you choose to accept is personal
Simply by swinging exposes you to more risk than couples who only have sex with each other.
For me I am aware that STD rates are higher amongst men who have sexual relations with other men so I choose not to expose my self to that additional risk by not meeting bi men or straight guys who have sex with other men regardless of how those other men identify.
Similarly if I seen someone I really like has verifications from creampie gangbangs I might consider that a level of risk I don't want to expose my self to.
Anyone interested in this thread should do their own research and if you find a genuine government health website that says levels of STD among the LGBTQ community are comparable with the straight community please share the link here.  |
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"
Anyone interested in this thread should do their own research and if you find a genuine government health website that says levels of STD among the LGBTQ community are comparable with the swinging community please share the link here. "
Fixed that for you.
The straight community and the swinging community are not the same demographics at all.
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Also for anyone looking to make informed choices with regard their health, sexual or other wise I would advise them to refer to their local heath service guidelines. Keep in mind that peer reviewed journals and publications often support or lean a certain way depending on the author or publication and you can find a study or paper to agree with any or disagree with something at the same time.
If you are writing a thesis or a paper at college you should reference and cite peer reviewed publications that support your conclusions.
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"We are all responsible for our own sexual health and to a degree that of the people we meet or might meet.
The level of risk you choose to accept is personal
Simply by swinging exposes you to more risk than couples who only have sex with each other.
For me I am aware that STD rates are higher amongst men who have sexual relations with other men so I choose not to expose my self to that additional risk by not meeting bi men or straight guys who have sex with other men regardless of how those other men identify.
Similarly if I seen someone I really like has verifications from creampie gangbangs I might consider that a level of risk I don't want to expose my self to.
Anyone interested in this thread should do their own research and if you find a genuine government health website that says levels of STD among the LGBTQ community are comparable with the straight community please share the link here. "
Not sure I'm allowed to link as it's not a news source or YouTube.
However, the Terrence Higgins Trust response to the UKHSA figures state that
"There was a larger proportional increase in syphilis diagnoses among heterosexual men and women than among gay and bisexual men."
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"
Anyone interested in this thread should do their own research and if you find a genuine government health website that says levels of STD among the LGBTQ community are comparable with the swinging community please share the link here.
Fixed that for you.
The straight community and the swinging community are not the same demographics at all.
"
How are they not the same demographics, as far as I am aware when you do a STD test you are only asked if you have same sex partners, opposite sex partners or both.
They don't ask if you swing from time to time.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-sti-figures-show-continued-increases-among-gay-men
I can post these links all day BT it gets tiresome
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"We are all responsible for our own sexual health and to a degree that of the people we meet or might meet.
The level of risk you choose to accept is personal
Simply by swinging exposes you to more risk than couples who only have sex with each other.
For me I am aware that STD rates are higher amongst men who have sexual relations with other men so I choose not to expose my self to that additional risk by not meeting bi men or straight guys who have sex with other men regardless of how those other men identify.
Similarly if I seen someone I really like has verifications from creampie gangbangs I might consider that a level of risk I don't want to expose my self to.
Anyone interested in this thread should do their own research and if you find a genuine government health website that says levels of STD among the LGBTQ community are comparable with the straight community please share the link here.
Not sure I'm allowed to link as it's not a news source or YouTube.
However, the Terrence Higgins Trust response to the UKHSA figures state that
"There was a larger proportional increase in syphilis diagnoses among heterosexual men and women than among gay and bisexual men."
"
When it comes to your health don't rely on YouTube videos refer to the relevant health services to where you live for accurate ans non biased information |
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https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/sexuallytransmittedinfections/publications/stireports/2023reports/Sexually Transmitted Diseases (STIs) in Ireland 2023_Final_v1.0.pdf
But hey I'm the baddie because I don't want to knowingly meet guys who have sex with other guys because I try to limit as best I can my risk of catching an STD |
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The Dutch study is titled "Older and swinging; need to identify hidden and emerging risk groups at STI clinics".
The study analyzed data from approximately 9,000 patient consultations
It was peer-reviewed and published online by the academic journal Sexually Transmitted Infections
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"We are all responsible for our own sexual health and to a degree that of the people we meet or might meet.
The level of risk you choose to accept is personal
Simply by swinging exposes you to more risk than couples who only have sex with each other.
For me I am aware that STD rates are higher amongst men who have sexual relations with other men so I choose not to expose my self to that additional risk by not meeting bi men or straight guys who have sex with other men regardless of how those other men identify.
Similarly if I seen someone I really like has verifications from creampie gangbangs I might consider that a level of risk I don't want to expose my self to.
Anyone interested in this thread should do their own research and if you find a genuine government health website that says levels of STD among the LGBTQ community are comparable with the straight community please share the link here.
Not sure I'm allowed to link as it's not a news source or YouTube.
However, the Terrence Higgins Trust response to the UKHSA figures state that
"There was a larger proportional increase in syphilis diagnoses among heterosexual men and women than among gay and bisexual men."
When it comes to your health don't rely on YouTube videos refer to the relevant health services to where you live for accurate ans non biased information "
There are actually really good sources on YouTube if you do your research on who you are watching. But thanks |
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I think that bi men are high risk
And so they tend to do more (prep, condoms etc) to mitigate the risk.
It’s the casual shaggers, who hook up at vanilla clubs and pubs who don’t take precautions.
And apparently retirement villages are hotbeds (pun intended) of STDs, because they don’t worry about condoms, because pregnancy isn’t an issue.
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There was a study a couple of years ago that showed the number of STD cases had quadrupled in care home residents, is that down to poor testing or is it because it’s a “contained” population which means there will be more risk of transmission?
The point is sometimes statistics can be misleading if there’s other factors at play.
That said, it should be a wake up call for anyone who is looking for bareback sex - whatever their age - even with regular testing. |
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"There was a study a couple of years ago that showed the number of STD cases had quadrupled in care home residents, is that down to poor testing or is it because it’s a “contained” population which means there will be more risk of transmission?
The point is sometimes statistics can be misleading if there’s other factors at play.
That said, it should be a wake up call for anyone who is looking for bareback sex - whatever their age - even with regular testing. "
Never share a mobility scooter, that's all I'm saying. |
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"There was a study a couple of years ago that showed the number of STD cases had quadrupled in care home residents, is that down to poor testing or is it because it’s a “contained” population which means there will be more risk of transmission?
The point is sometimes statistics can be misleading if there’s other factors at play.
That said, it should be a wake up call for anyone who is looking for bareback sex - whatever their age - even with regular testing. "
People of the age to be in a care home think they aren't at risk. Everyone else thinks they're too old to have sex so nobody bothers to aim education at them |
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As I have said its up to the individual to look after their own sexual health, and the level of risk you are willing to accept to get your frills.
Some people can look at the available information online via the local health services others can refer to papers, it's their own choice.
No one should be shamed into accepting more risk than their comfortable with. I must find the article I read about the transwomen that pressure young lesbian girls into dating them with the threat of doxing them as tranphobes if they don't cave to peer pressure.
Shame shame on anyone that tries to shane others for the preferences |
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-57853385.amp
https://www.eviemagazine.com/post/these-lesbian-women-say-they-feel-pressured-into-sex-by-some-trans-women
https://sex-matters.org/posts/other-resources/the-lesbians-who-feel-pressured-to-have-sex-and-relationships-with-trans-women/ |
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Can we not turn this into an attack on trans people please.
It's just a study and it's interesting and I thought it was worthy of a discussion.
No one needs to bring up words like attack or shaming. |
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I've been searching for the elusive Danish paper and the only information I can find on sexually transmitted disease in Denmark concurs with the information published by the HSE,NHS and CDC.
That being sexually transmitted disease are significantly higher in men who have sex with other men.
https://www.humanrights.dk/lgbt-barometer/sexual-health#:~:text=Sexually%20transmitted%20diseases%20are%20overrepresented,with%20a%20sexually%20transmitted%20disease. |
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"Can we not turn this into an attack on trans people please.
It's just a study and it's interesting and I thought it was worthy of a discussion.
No one needs to bring up words like attack or shaming."
Strange statement considering you have an issue with people not wanting to meet Bi men, as it certainly feels like your trying to shame them for their choices. |
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"There was a study a couple of years ago that showed the number of STD cases had quadrupled in care home residents, is that down to poor testing or is it because it’s a “contained” population which means there will be more risk of transmission?
The point is sometimes statistics can be misleading if there’s other factors at play.
That said, it should be a wake up call for anyone who is looking for bareback sex - whatever their age - even with regular testing.
People of the age to be in a care home think they aren't at risk. Everyone else thinks they're too old to have sex so nobody bothers to aim education at them "
This is probably true and they're probably the least knowledgeable about the risks and signs and symptoms etc |
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"Can we not turn this into an attack on trans people please.
It's just a study and it's interesting and I thought it was worthy of a discussion.
No one needs to bring up words like attack or shaming.
Strange statement considering you have an issue with people not wanting to meet Bi men, as it certainly feels like your trying to shame them for their choices."
Those are your words not mine. No one has mentioned anything about shaming you. No one called you a baddie. You said those things. |
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"Can we not turn this into an attack on trans people please.
It's just a study and it's interesting and I thought it was worthy of a discussion.
No one needs to bring up words like attack or shaming.
Strange statement considering you have an issue with people not wanting to meet Bi men, as it certainly feels like your trying to shame them for their choices."
only those who do so based on unfair stereotypes I think is what the original post suggests |
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"Can we not turn this into an attack on trans people please.
It's just a study and it's interesting and I thought it was worthy of a discussion.
No one needs to bring up words like attack or shaming.
Strange statement considering you have an issue with people not wanting to meet Bi men, as it certainly feels like your trying to shame them for their choices.
Those are your words not mine. No one has mentioned anything about shaming you. No one called you a baddie. You said those things."
Well between this thread and another you have refuted every government statistic and health service statistic that veries my choice in not wanting to intentionally meet bi guys or straight guys that meet TV, TD and transwomen.
It's very easy to read between the lines.
I personally would never go to such lengths to try refute someone's kinks, choices or preferences. |
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"Can we not turn this into an attack on trans people please.
It's just a study and it's interesting and I thought it was worthy of a discussion.
No one needs to bring up words like attack or shaming.
Strange statement considering you have an issue with people not wanting to meet Bi men, as it certainly feels like your trying to shame them for their choices. only those who do so based on unfair stereotypes I think is what the original post suggests"
There are no unfair stereotypes only government statistics which are published for educational purposes. |
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I have learned something new here and it's something that wasn't considered in the elusive peer reviewed data.
So while the risk that non swinging men who have sex with men may be comparable to the risk for swinger's, it does not account for men who have sex with men who are swingers who would have have the risk of being in both demographics compounded.
This was pointed out to me by a reader. |
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"Can we not turn this into an attack on trans people please.
It's just a study and it's interesting and I thought it was worthy of a discussion.
No one needs to bring up words like attack or shaming.
Strange statement considering you have an issue with people not wanting to meet Bi men, as it certainly feels like your trying to shame them for their choices.
Those are your words not mine. No one has mentioned anything about shaming you. No one called you a baddie. You said those things.
Well between this thread and another you have refuted every government statistic and health service statistic that veries my choice in not wanting to intentionally meet bi guys or straight guys that meet TV, TD and transwomen.
It's very easy to read between the lines.
I personally would never go to such lengths to try refute someone's kinks, choices or preferences."
Ara cmon now I haven't refuted anything. I found some really interesting statistics and presented them for discussion and gave my point of view. I haven't said a single thing that can't be discussed or debated intelligently. |
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"I have learned something new here and it's something that wasn't considered in the elusive peer reviewed data.
So while the risk that non swinging men who have sex with men may be comparable to the risk for swinger's, it does not account for men who have sex with men who are swingers who would have have the risk of being in both demographics compounded.
This was pointed out to me by a reader. "
You've based this thread on a 15 year old study from a single clinic in the Netherlands. Do you believe this is robust enough to be quoted as if it is universally true ? |
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"I’m absolutely shocked to learn of this biphobia in the swinging community. SHOCKED.
Tbf it’s straight up homophobia. Excuse the use of straight🤣"
Hahaha.
Yea.
And all the 'straight' guys sliding into DMS on the sly with no bis or single men on the profile ! |
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"I have learned something new here and it's something that wasn't considered in the elusive peer reviewed data.
So while the risk that non swinging men who have sex with men may be comparable to the risk for swinger's, it does not account for men who have sex with men who are swingers who would have have the risk of being in both demographics compounded.
This was pointed out to me by a reader. "
So once again your completely ignoring or refuting the published statistics of the Irish, English, American and Danish health services by referring to the Danish paper.
Someone will have to do a study of all the people that tested positive for an STD in say 2024, and ask each of them
A. Do you have sex with just the opposite sex
B. Do you have same sex, sex
C. Do you answer yes to A & B
Then they would need to consider how many of the respondents are having sex with people in a swinging context or via vanilla dating style apps and general socialising.
Interestingly one of the most common gripes I read on the forums from single men is the lack of action here (understandable given the ratio of men to women and couples)
So presumably those guys are getting action somewhere, tinder, night clubs etc.
Then you need to break the swingers down further, how many are very active and meeting regularly vs how many are less active, how many partake in more risky activities like dogging, gang bangs etc.
So overall I think it's going to be very hard to assess other than
Do you have sex with other men or just women. |
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"I believe it to be sufficiently relevant to have a discussion about. Which has happened."
Of course, but it's clearly a very limited and now quite dated study, therefore any firm conclusions based on it should probably be avoided.
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I know of a number of straight swinging couples who do not take control of sexual health and do not test regularly whereas gay and bisexual men, especially those on PrEP do.
It's better to test frequently and know what's going on as far as I'm concerned.
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Anyway please make informed decision when it comes to your health and revert to your local heath services for advice and guidance if needs be.
Don't rely on YouTube videos or vague elusive studies which can be written to support one view or another unless you want to fo down the route of anti vaxers, conspiracy theorists and people who think the government make stuff up (which they probably do sometimes) |
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"I have learned something new here and it's something that wasn't considered in the elusive peer reviewed data.
So while the risk that non swinging men who have sex with men may be comparable to the risk for swinger's, it does not account for men who have sex with men who are swingers who would have have the risk of being in both demographics compounded.
This was pointed out to me by a reader.
So once again your completely ignoring or refuting the published statistics of the Irish, English, American and Danish health services by referring to the Danish paper.
Someone will have to do a study of all the people that tested positive for an STD in say 2024, and ask each of them
A. Do you have sex with just the opposite sex
B. Do you have same sex, sex
C. Do you answer yes to A & B
Then they would need to consider how many of the respondents are having sex with people in a swinging context or via vanilla dating style apps and general socialising.
Interestingly one of the most common gripes I read on the forums from single men is the lack of action here (understandable given the ratio of men to women and couples)
So presumably those guys are getting action somewhere, tinder, night clubs etc.
Then you need to break the swingers down further, how many are very active and meeting regularly vs how many are less active, how many partake in more risky activities like dogging, gang bangs etc.
So overall I think it's going to be very hard to assess other than
Do you have sex with other men or just women."
If you read it again you'll find that I was agreeing in the context of that study that in swinging world the risk of sti's may well be higher for men who have sex with men 'who also swing' than it is with heterosexual swinger's who, in the context of that study, have comparable risk with men who have sex with men 'who don't swing'
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"I believe it to be sufficiently relevant to have a discussion about. Which has happened.
Of course, but it's clearly a very limited and now quite dated study, therefore any firm conclusions based on it should probably be avoided.
"
I haven't made any firm conclusions Leo. This is a chat forum. It's a discussion.
Read above and you'll see that I've already shifted my point of view based on an intelligent observation sent to me privately. |
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"I believe it to be sufficiently relevant to have a discussion about. Which has happened.
Of course, but it's clearly a very limited and now quite dated study, therefore any firm conclusions based on it should probably be avoided.
I haven't made any firm conclusions Leo. This is a chat forum. It's a discussion.
Read above and you'll see that I've already shifted my point of view based on an intelligent observation sent to me privately."
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"I don't meet bi guys, I don't have anything against them i just don't want to have sex with them. I don't meet men under 45 or over 65 either.
It's called personal preferences...
"
That's fair. This thread is about a study I found that had some interesting figures around the sexual health risks present in swinging and how they compare to other high risk categories like men who have sex with men and sex workers.
Preference would be an entirely different topic. |
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"Anyway please make informed decision when it comes to your health and revert to your local heath services for advice and guidance if needs be.
Don't rely on YouTube videos or vague elusive studies which can be written to support one view or another unless you want to fo down the route of anti vaxers, conspiracy theorists and people who think the government make stuff up (which they probably do sometimes)"
You think the government is making stuff up? Huh.
Made up or not, I don’t think any great stretch of the imagination is required to realise that rates of STIs are higher amongst people who have sex with multiple partners, whoever they are.
Mrs TMN x |
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By *AYENCouple 3 weeks ago
Lincolnshire |
"A Dutch study found that swingers and particularly the over 45 demographic had a similar and sometimes higher risk profile for STI's than Men who have sex with Men.
I thought this was interesting because a lot of people will say that they won't sleep with bi men because of the STI risk where this study shows that this risk increase isn't reflected in the data. The risk is more or less the same.
It's very clear that a lot of men that have sex with other men are in denial, so I don't think the statistics are necessarily right - equally the statistics aren't necessarily wrong.
Are men that enjoy gay sex more active than those that only enjoy hetro sex?
Going by my observations I would say they are - which might lead to higher infection rate - personally I take each person as an individual and come to my own conclusions - but I certainly wouldn't trust statistics. K.
The data would suggest you are incorrect in your belief.
I do think it's interesting that people would prefer to rely on anecdotal assumptions rather that data over a decade.
Most European countries track STI's pretty well so it's not just a case of Statistics Bad"
Data is totally dependent upon accurate input - people lie to themselves, to others and on forms. |
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"I have learned something new here and it's something that wasn't considered in the elusive peer reviewed data.
So while the risk that non swinging men who have sex with men may be comparable to the risk for swinger's, it does not account for men who have sex with men who are swingers who would have have the risk of being in both demographics compounded.
This was pointed out to me by a reader.
So once again your completely ignoring or refuting the published statistics of the Irish, English, American and Danish health services by referring to the Danish paper.
Someone will have to do a study of all the people that tested positive for an STD in say 2024, and ask each of them
A. Do you have sex with just the opposite sex
B. Do you have same sex, sex
C. Do you answer yes to A & B
Then they would need to consider how many of the respondents are having sex with people in a swinging context or via vanilla dating style apps and general socialising.
Interestingly one of the most common gripes I read on the forums from single men is the lack of action here (understandable given the ratio of men to women and couples)
So presumably those guys are getting action somewhere, tinder, night clubs etc.
Then you need to break the swingers down further, how many are very active and meeting regularly vs how many are less active, how many partake in more risky activities like dogging, gang bangs etc.
So overall I think it's going to be very hard to assess other than
Do you have sex with other men or just women.
If you read it again you'll find that I was agreeing in the context of that study that in swinging world the risk of sti's may well be higher for men who have sex with men 'who also swing' than it is with heterosexual swinger's who, in the context of that study, have comparable risk with men who have sex with men 'who don't swing'
"
Let's forget the context of swinging and just look at the government statistics for straight sex vs men who have sex with other men and acknowledge the level of STD is significantly higher.
Now consider a Danish survey of a site like fab swinger where more people who identify as straight or bi fem significantly outnumber men who identify as gay or bi.
Hence any findings will be skewed due to the uneven numbers of straight vs bi/gay being surveyed
You would need to survey an equal number of straight people who identify as active swingers and and equal number of gay and bi men that identify as active swingers.
For such reasons is why we can only really rely on statistics because every survey can be viewed from multiple angles. |
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"Anyway please make informed decision when it comes to your health and revert to your local heath services for advice and guidance if needs be.
Don't rely on YouTube videos or vague elusive studies which can be written to support one view or another unless you want to fo down the route of anti vaxers, conspiracy theorists and people who think the government make stuff up (which they probably do sometimes)
You think the government is making stuff up? Huh.
Made up or not, I don’t think any great stretch of the imagination is required to realise that rates of STIs are higher amongst people who have sex with multiple partners, whoever they are.
Mrs TMN x"
I was being sarcastic when I said in brackets maybe governments make stuff up, it was for the benefit of people who seem to refute statistics from government sources. |
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"Anyway please make informed decision when it comes to your health and revert to your local heath services for advice and guidance if needs be.
Don't rely on YouTube videos or vague elusive studies which can be written to support one view or another unless you want to fo down the route of anti vaxers, conspiracy theorists and people who think the government make stuff up (which they probably do sometimes)
You think the government is making stuff up? Huh.
Mrs TMN x"
No I believe some idiot doing the Dutch version of a BTEC in science with a EU funding really did interview 120 people including a 73-year-old woman refused condoms. Luckily, we no longer fund this kind of crap. |
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